this morning, my question, will there be justice for corey? plus, jeb bush regroups after another week of bad news. and drake's hotline bling blows up the internet. but first, the big decision facing the movement. good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. this week, the protest movement to end police violence increased its visibility in the 2016 presidential election when both national parties gave a stamp of approval for their candidates to face tough questions from the movement. on wednesday, the washington post wes lowry reported on letters sent from the democratic

national committee to the activists offering the dnc's support for a town hall on social and racial justice. the letters were sent to the two different groups boat at the forefront of the movement. the #blacklives' matter network, which shares its name with the broader movement and operates as an umbrella organization with local chaptersp cities across the country, and campaign zero, a separate group that has coalesced around a ten-point agenda to reduce and eliminate police violence. the dnc's recognition of both groups signals not only the growing influence of the voice of this movement in american politics but it also suggests that we have reached a point where there is space and establishment politics for those voices to be heard. there is no question that the black lives matter movement is having a moment. but in the responses to the dnc from its two most prominent groups this week, we saw two very differing approaches on how to seize the moment. campaign zero welcomed the dnc's

offer to promote a town hall with the democratic candidates. a leader within campaign zero told the "washington post" that his group is moving forward with organizing the town halls and he's working with the dnc to confirm participation from all current presidential candidates. he's also in talks with the rnc which issued its own support for a presidential forum later in the week. however, for the black lives matter network, the dnc's offer fell short of its expectations. in a petition addressed to debbie wasserman schultz, they requested a seventh democratic debate to focus specifically on issues of racial justice. when the dnc instead offered the town hall and a refusal to add another debate, the black lives matter network responded with a statement saying in part, we were made unequivocal. the presidential town hall with support from the dnc does not

sufficiently respond to the concerns raised by our members. we want a debate supported by the dnc to speak directly and proactively to the issues afeathing black people in this country. two organizations united in their goals but divergeant in their strategaic engagement. by both working with them and pushing against them for change. even the coalition that won the singular victories of the civil rights movement included activists with very different relationships to american political power. in 1964, martin luther king jr. found himself at odds with other members of the movement who disagreed with a compromise offered by king's powerful ally in the white house, president lyndon johnson. mississippi had sent an all-white delegation to represent the state at the democratic national convention in atlantic city. and the mississippi freedom democratic party, an integrated delegation comprised primarily

of african-american delegates, crashed the convention. their demand to replace the delegates and be recognized as the official delegation from the state of mississippi was most profoundly and powerfully expressed by fannie lou hamer. hamer, a mississippi share cropper turned activist who was prui brutalized by police while working in the movement, gave this testimony. >> the plantation owners came and said, fannie lou, do you know desh did they tell you what i said? i said, yes, sir. he said, well i mean that. if you don't go down and withdraw your registration, you will have to leave. then, if you go down and withdraw, that you still might have to go because we're not ready for that in mississippi. and i addressed him and told him, i didn't try to register for you. i tried to register for myself.

>> hamer's moving testimony caused a stir at the highest levels of the party because presidential johnson feared hamer and her delegation would alienate southern white democrats and disrupt his path to the nomination, so the dnc offered a compromise. the freedom party could seek two at-large representatives. dr. king, who the initially told johnson he would fight to see the integrated delegation seated at the delegation eventually joined other leaders in trying to convince the delegates to accept the compromise, but they were resolute in their resolve, and it was hamer who most succin succinctly said it, we didn't come here to compromise for no more than we'd gotten here. we didn't come all the way for two seats because all of us is tired. in the end, lbj would win the

presidency and another term he used to push through passage of the voting rights act of 1965. a transformational shift in american power. a shift like the change sought by the modern change for justice was all thanks to the effort of the numpt made by many pushing from within and without. joining me now, joy reid, national correspondent and author of fracture, barack obama, the clintons, and the racial divide. patrick murray, maria hinojosa, and deray mchessen. a cofounder of campaign zero. also with us from san francisco, elysia garza, cohad creator of #blacklivesmatter. for you, and for your organization, why was the response of the parties to indorse a town hall insufficient? >> for the blm network, our members felt really strongly

that it was important that the democratic party given its resolution that it passed in late august in support of our network and in support of the broader movement, it was really important to us that the democratic party put its actions behind its words. and to be quite frank, there will be many, many town halls where candidates will get to engage directly with community members. however, what we want to see happen is the democratic party take more seriously the issues impacting our communities. which means it needs to fundamentally encourage each other and themselves to really grapple with the issues facing our neighborhoods and our communities. not just police brupalty and police violence, although that's a significant issue, but certainly, we also want them to address things like economic justice. we want them to address things like gender justice. we want them to address questions of access to democracy and voting rights and

reinfranchising black voters. we haven't seen a commitment from the democratic party beyond words to really dig into the question that really impact black communities today. that's why a town hall for us doesn't meet the demand we raised. what we said was we want to see a debate. we want to see what the candidates proactively are coming up with to insure that black lives will actually matter in this country. >> okay. stick with us. let me come to you. you have once the town hall was on the table, you have been working really hard to make it happen, including even potentially putting what might be a kind of unique opportunity to have democrats and republicans on the stage together at this moment. tell me why it does work for you? >> to be clear, the request always from the team i'm with was a town hall forum, a forum -- >> so not a debate initially. >> correct. so a forum that has real people asking real questions. we have a unique opportunity to do that. a debate, while it's an interesting format, it's heavily

moderator-led. it's true to the movement and people that i stayed with in ferguson and baltimore and charleston, that allows real people to push the candidates and ask real questions. i think we can get a lot of publicity around it, i think we can get it aired. it can be an event that people watch and look and they are accountable to people in a way that i think is true to the movement space, and in working with the parties to understand the rules a little better, i want to clear, the rnc does not support or oppose town halls. but working with them to understand the rules a little better, the only thing that's different is that the candidates wouldn't be able to directly engage each other, but it would offer a chance for the candidates to help us understand better what their positions are instead of having a format that caters to sound bites, which we know that debates do. ip think we would have this happen around january or february, and there would already be a couple debates that would anchor them in some core positions, but the town hall, again, is a format that allows real people to ask real

questions in a way that would be unique in terms of its focus on race and injustice. >> this has been such an interesting moment for us, both deray and elysia, we as a team trying to think about how to have this conversation. what we don't want is necessarily a debate between the two of you, but we want an engagement to think about the strategy necessary, the kind of movement you all are part of is big and really hard, and so help me to understand a little bit why a kind of, look, the dnc passed a resolution. the resolution said that black lives matter and say her name are important. right? and so you're saying as a result of that, what you want to see is a specific format. help me to understand sort of why that format matters so much in terms of addressing that resolution. >> sure. so i think the big thing that we're concerned about is that thus far, the democratic party

has not done the work that it needs to, to genuinely engage black voters. and we have been doing that work. so has my colleague, doray. and certainly, again, it's less a question of the format to us. we want to make sure that the democratic national committee is having serious conversations at every single level about how to address the crisis facing black communities today. and what we think that does not mean is resting it on the shoulders of black folks to do that work for them. >> so that's interesting. hold for me just one second because of timing. i want to let doray in real quick before the commercial. this is an interesting point. what i heard you say is town halls are good because the people are asking the question. what i heard elysia saying is that leaves us to do all the work. not you, but the candidates are the ones with the actual access to power. >> i think, again, i will always err on the side of real people

asking real questions of the candidates. the candidates have to answer questions that are true to people's experiences. this format allows that to happen. i think a moderator-led formatt is interesting, too, we have seen that in many spaces in the debates, but i think like a forum with real questions asking real questions to candidates makes them engage emotionally too is important from a voter perspective. >> we're going to take a break. stick with us. we're going to bring in the rest of the table when we come back. americans. we're living longer than ever. as we age, certain nutrients...

...become especially important. from the makers of one a day fifty-plus. new one a day proactive sixty-five plus. with high potency vitamin b12... ...and more vitamin d. this bale of hay cannot be controlled. when a wildfire raged through elkhorn ranch, the sudden loss of pasture became a serious problem for a family business. faced with horses that needed feeding and a texas drought that sent hay prices soaring, the owners had to act fast. thankfully, mary miller banks with chase for business. and with greater financial clarity and a relationship built for the unexpected, she could control her cash flow, and keep the ranch running. chase for business. so you can own it. chase for business. you can't breathed. through your nose. suddenly, you're a mouthbreather. well, just put on a breathe right strip which instantly opens your nose up to 38% more than cold medicine alone. shut your mouth and say goodnight mouthbreathers. breathe right why are all these people so asleep, yet i'm so awake?

did you know your brain has two systems? one helps keep you awake- the other helps you sleep. science suggests when you have insomnia, the wake system in your brain may be too strong and your neurotransmitters remain too active as you try to sleep, which could be leading to your insomnia. ohh...maybe that's what's preventing me from getting the sleep i need! talk to your doctor about ways to manage your insomnia. i'm a gas service rep for pg&e in san jose.. as a gas service rep we are basically the ambassador of the company. we make the most contact with the customers on a daily basis. i work hand-in-hand with crews to make sure our gas pipes are safe. my wife and i are both from san jose. my kids and their friends live in this community. every time i go to a customer's house, their children could be friends with my children so it's important to me. one of the most rewarding parts of this job is after you help a customer, seeing a smile on their face. together, we're building a better california.

i think the reason that the organizers use the phrase black lives matters, was not because they were suggesting nobody else's lives matter. rather, what they were suggesting is there is a specific problem that is happening in the african-american community that's not happening in other

communities. and that is a legitimate issue that we've got to address. >> that was president obama on thursday making clear where he stands on the question of the need for a movement that specifically focuses on black lives in america. joy, if we need a movement that focuses on it, do we also need a debate or a town hall forum that specifically focuses on it? >> it's interesting. the discussion, it did clarify. it was a little clarifying in i feel like what alicia is saying is for the democratic party to really feel like it is showing actual real concern for the movement, it needs to give the movement the respect of the format that it gives the larger body politic, which is the debate format. because i think in terms of what doray was saying, if the question is what should the candidates do for black americans, you would think you want the movement to tell them. you don't want the candidates to cook up an idea and tell us this is what we're going to do for you.

you want it to be organic and come from people. i think the two are not that far apart from what they want in the end. i could be wrong, but it felt like the difference here is the idea that the party would give a stepped-down version of the discussion by not agreeing to the actual debate idea. i don't know if that's right or wrong. >> alicia, let me pull you in. in general, when you think about the policy changes that campaign zero and black lives matter the network are interested in enacting, at what point is presidential politics relevant as compared to the other levels where these kinds of policy decisions are made? >> yes, great question. i think what's relevant is the question of our access to the democratic system. and what's also relevant is the question of how democracy works right now, which to be honest, and to be frank, is locking out people like the members of our network from participating in genuine ways. the issue with the lack of response from the dnc, and this is not a new demand, right?

there's lots of conversation happening in the dnc about opening up the process so more people can participate. and actually opening up the process so candidates can get closer to movements without be sa sanctioned for doing so. having six debates sponsored by the corporate media and not allowing sanctions candidates from participating in other debate formats that would help them get closer to the demands of movements, not only privileges candidates who are more familiar to the voting public, but it also sanctions movements. it doesn't allow us to be in frank and real conversation between our members and folks who are seeking the oval office and other offices. that's a huge problems in terms of access to democracy. >> doray, let me let you respond. >> we want to make sure there's space for robust conversation. the movement has been about

making sure we press people, hold them accountable for the way they make decisions that impact our lives. the town hall forum is real people asking real question, but also, with the dnc's support, we can push the dnc, given the statements they have made, to make sure that this format doesn't have the constraints the debates has, but allows us to really dig deep. when reviewing the 2012 town hall forum rules, they were much more open from the debates that allowed people to have interplay, that allowed the moderator to ask follow-up questions in a way that the debate rules are really strict. when i have done the research with both parties understanding the debate rules, i think it doesn't allow for as robust a conversation and tends to support the sound bite, and we don't want that. we want to know where people stand on these issues in a deep way. >> maria, let me let you in. >> is there a problem we can't do both? why can't we -- do we want that

kind of serious engagement? why are want we having town halls on a consistent basis and why isn't there a debate? i see that we all want to increase the conversation and hold them accountable, bring in the authentic voices, and push for both. i mean, i love -- >> but i think there's -- i do think there's in part an answer to that. that is because you have to ask in any of these, what is in it for the parties and candidates? i don't think that's a good, i think it's a realistic. if i am hillary clinton or bernie sanders, what is the value for me in engaging in an ongoing way in this space? this is constituency i already expect to get, and i could mostly only make a mistake. i guess that's, for me, let me ask you that as an insider-outsider part of what movements do is to go ahead and say i'm not worried about what incentivizes you, but if you're doing an inside strategy, you have to wonder about that.

>> that's right. well, what should incentivize those in power are the brave residents of ferguson and cleveland, south carolina, charleston, oakland. that should be what is the incentive. unfortunately, what it looks like from our perspective and the perspective of our membership is what the incentive is is being aligned with the theory of black lives matter without having to really demonstrate your commitment. and again, that is something that is unfortunately being sanctioned by the dnc because of the ways in which they're restricting genuine conversation, genuine solutions, and actually, genuine pressure on some of these candidates to do more than sound bites, which they will do in both formats, to be honest. >> we have ten seconds. i'm going to give you a last chance to respond. >> i wouldn't say this would be one of many town hall formats. i think we can push the dnc to make the rules such that this is a deeper conversation, and i don't know anything more genuine

than having real people sort of push the candidates in a real way that makes them have conversations with people, and i think that is true to the movement space and has always been. so i'm hopeful we can push the dnc to make this space as robust as possible, that this is not a concession. this is actually a reimagination of what town halls can be. >> i want to say thank you to alicia and doray. the rest of my panel is sticking around. we've got a lot more coming up, including how the director of the fbi seems to be on a very different page than the president he works for. stay with us. things. when something works, people stick with it. more people stick with humana medicare advantage. because we stick with them.

humana medicare advantage. the plan people stick with. thiproof of less joint pain. and clearer skin. this is my body of proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis from the inside out ...with humira. humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. it's proven to help relieve pain, stop further joint damage and clear skin in many adults. doctors have been prescribing

humira for nearly 10 years. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis serious,sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. visit humira.com and talk to your rheumatologist. humira. this is a body of proof! at safelite, we know how busy life can be. these kids were headed to their first dance recital... ...when their windshield got cracked... ...but they couldn't miss the show. so dad went to the new safelite-dot-com. and in just a few clicks, he scheduled a replacement... ...before the girls even took the stage. safelite-dot-com is the fast, easy way to schedule service anywhere in america! so you don't have to miss a thing. y'all did wonderful! that's another safelite advantage.

(girls sing) safelite repair, safelite replace. (girls sing) safelite repair, safelite it takes a lot of work... but i really love it.s. i'm on the move all day long... and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost® to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste. i don't plan on slowing down any time soon. stay strong. stay active with boost®. we turn now to stillwater, oklahoma, where four people including a 2-year-old boy, were killed after a car crashed into a crowd gathered at an oklahoma state university homecoming parade around 10:30 central time yesterday morning. 47 people were injured. police suspect the driver,

25-year-old adawes yeah chaumbers war intoxicated at the time. she's been charged with driving thd ininfluence. this morning, 17 people are still in the hospital, five with critical injuries. nbc news correspondent jacob rascon joins us from stillwater. what can you tell isabout the people who were hurt in the crash? >> i want to start with over my right shoulder is this memorial that is growing. a steady stream of people have been showing up to pray, to, you know, leave flowers and signs. some of those who knew the people who were involved in the accident, and others who we talked to who were witnesses to the accident. really, you can feel the impact here, right here at the scene. it just isn't stopping, the people coming and going. as far as those who are hurt, as you said, five people are still fighting for their lives. the others, the 12 who are still hospitalized are expected to survive. half of them are children. one of them, 1 year old, and

this morning, as well, investigators have new video to review showing the moment of impact. you can see a gray sedan plowing into the crowd. no brake lights are visible there. one of the witnesses tells the governor the driver had to be held down after the crash. she, of course, was arrested on a charge of dui. investigators telling us that possible charges range from negligent homicide to manslaughter, even to murder, depending on her intentions, her driving history, and whether or not she was intoxicated. the investigation continues this morning. >> thank you to jacob rascon in stillwater, oklahoma. up next, we're going to play you some of what fbi director james comey said on friday because this is something you really have to hear for yourself. look at you, saving money on your medicare part d prescriptions. at walgreens, we call that "carpe med diem." that's almost latin for

"seize the day to get more out of life and medicare part d." from one-dollar copays on select plans... ...to now reward points on all prescriptions, walgreens has you covered. so drop by and seize the savings! walgreens. at the corner of happy and healthy. ...of fixodent plus adhesives. they help your denture hold strong more like natural teeth. and you can eat even tough food. fixodent. strong more like natural teeth. fixodent and forget it. therthat can be serious,ere. even fatal to infants. it's whooping cough, and people can spread it without knowing it. understand the danger your new grandchild faces. talk to your doctor or pharmacist about a whooping cough vaccination today.

the way i see it, you have two choices; the easy way or the hard way. you could choose a card that limits where you earn bonus cash back. or, you could make things easier on yourself. that's right, the quicksilver card from capital one. with quicksilver you earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. so, let's try this again. what's in your wallet? obama explicitly defended the

black lives matter movement, one of the people who work for him was on a very different message. fbi director james comey on friday added his name to the roster of law enforcement leaders openly speculating that increased scrutiny on police is the reason for increased crime in some cities. >> some spart of the explanation is a chill wind that has blown over law enforcement over the last year. >> we've heard this idea before. it's called the so-called ferguson effect. the idea that police officers around the country are so afraid of being caught in a viral video doing something they shouldn't be doing that they are just choosing not to prevent crime as much as they otherwise would. of course, there is some essential problems and empirical one with that theory that is the utter lack of proof, something the fbi director himself noted. >> the honest answer is i don't know. and i don't know that that explains it entirely. i think it's embarrassing,

honestly, and ridiculous that we as a government don't have the data. every single conversation about law enforcement and use of force by definition is uninformed. i cannot tell you whether shootings are up, down, or flat because we don't have the data. >> joining me now from columbia, south carolina, marcus claxton, retired nypd detective and director of the black law enforcement alliance. this man works for the president. he was speaking at the president's former employer, the university of chicago. he was speaking at one point to one of the president's former campaign strategists. he seemed to directly undermine the president. will he still be fbi director by tuesday? >> if it was up to me, no, but i'm sure he will be because conveniently, a lot of times some of the quote/unquote experts and high level officials have the ability to maneuver and kind of readjust. by tomorrow, he'll be further explaining what his rationale or

reasoning was. it's disappointing. i think what he spoke about and what's been regarded as the ferguson effect, it really is an examination of the lack of initiative and know how in law enforceme enforcement. they can't put their fingers on what is driving some of the crime increases throughout the nation. because they lack innovative thinkers and initiative and new ideas, they're just blaming it on police apathy, if you will. any professional police officer who would be apathetic in the face of crime and not necessarily crime increase, but crime in general, should not be a police officer. and that is the bottom line. >> stick with us. one of the things that seems so odd to me about this is, you know, comey has actually been relatively good on some of these issues in his discourse previously, but it's specifically him saying we don't have the data. i just have a feeling about it. i'm wondering, patrick, how we intervene by saying, you can't make those sorts of claims unless you have data.

>> the fact that we don't have the data actually, one thing i'll agree with him, is incredible, that these things haven't been collected. we're starting to look at things. there's enough of it out there, if it gets collated, because these seem to be anecdotal incidents that happen, that get noticed specifically because of the context of other things that are going on in the world. interesting things, one thing we do know about is the racial disparity in people who are being stopped by police for different things, whether it's just as simple as a traffic ticket. one of the things i actually included in a poll in addition to that is what the flipside of that. how many people feel the police have gone out of their way to help them? we don't see as big a disparity in that, which may suggest this is not just something that african-americans or latinos are reporting because they want to get police into trouble. this is something that is really happening on their side, so then

the question is, on the flipside, are they actually going out there? the numbers don't seem high enough to claim there's some sort of statistical correlation. >> to the extent there are data, we were looking at the law enforcement officer fatalities. every fatality is someone in the line of their job is awful. we do, of course, see there is an uptick, but between 2014 and 2015, but those -- that uptick is from traffic accidents. it's from the dangerous jobs that officers do, often chases folks in circumstances. so traffic fatalities. they're actually not shootings. compare that to what we know in st. louis itself, and in the st. louis area where the uptick in violent crime precedes ferguson, not follows it. so anything that happens before something, i mean, after something, can't cause what happened before it. >> not only that. you have now data collected by people like the "washington post" that are started to collate the number of fatal

encounters between police and civilians. the racial despaisparity in tha the racial disparity in things like ticketing and traffic tickets and the way those things are being used to fund communities that we saw in places like ferguson, that we're seeing in states. we see that data and the anecdotal data of police unions not liking to hear about the data and not liking to hear about things like black lives matter, and being annoyed by mayors like bill de blasio who are saying they shouldn't be involved in deadly encounters with traffic stops. it leads to the libertarian end of the argument, perhaps the problem is too much interaction for low-level offenses. and that maybe what we need is not more emission of police into communities but less. and the more encounters there are, because they're traffic stops and because they're disproportionately focused on communities of color, maybe that is the problem. because the police unions have

an attitude about it, that doesn't mean there's some sort of statistical correlation between the movement and police not being able to fight crime. >> going to take a quick break. going to get you back in, maria. up next, the attorney for the family of the florida flan killed by a plain clothes police officer. the sudden loss of pasture became a serious problem for a family business. faced with horses that needed feeding and a texas drought that sent hay prices soaring, the owners had to act fast. thankfully, mary miller banks with chase for business. and with greater financial clarity and a relationship built for the unexpected, she could control her cash flow, and keep the ranch running. chase for business. so you can own it. chase for business. want bladder leak underwear that try always discreet underwear and wiggle, giggle, swerve and curve. with soft dual leak guard barriers and a discreet fit that hugs your curves. so bladder leaks can feel like no big deal. get your free pair and valuable coupons at always discreet.com

(man) hmm. ♪hat do you think? (stranger) good mornin'! ♪ (store p.a.) attention shoppers, there's a lost couple in the men's department. (vo) there's a great big un-khaki world out there. explore it in a subaru crosstrek. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. where our next arrival is... red carpet whoa! toenail fungus!? fight it! with jublia. jublia is a prescription medicine used to treat toenail fungus. use jublia as instructed by your doctor. are you getting this?! most common side effects include ingrown toenail, application site redness,

itching, swelling, burning or stinging, blisters, and pain. oh, epic moves, big j! fight it! getting ready for your close-up? ask your doctor if jublia is right for you. visit our website for savings on larger size. this is corey jones. he was killed last week by a florida police officer at the age of 31. and here is what we know. jones, a musician, was driving the night of october 18th when his car broke down off the interstate. while he waited for a tow truck around 3:15 a.m., palm beach gardens police officer numen rasha pulled up. the officer was on duty, was in plain clothes, in an

>> police say the officer was not wearing a body camera, nor was his vehicle outfitted with a dashcam. they found a hand gun on the screen outside of the car, and jones' family said he did not fire his gun. they also say they were told by the state attorney that the officer didn't show jones his badge before firing. >> how did corey know that this was a police officer? how did -- why didn't he identify himself? why didn't he show the badge?

he rolls up on him in an unmarked white van with tinted windows. he doesn't know if he's about to be robbed, if he's about to be killed. imagine yourselves on the side of the road at 3:00 in the morning. >> in addition to the independent investigation by the palm beach county state attorney, the county sheriff's office is also conducting its own investigation. the sheriff's office said it has requested assistance from the fbi. we have heard from police that corey bought that handgun three days before he was kilded. do you know why he purchased the gun? >> well, corey obviously, being a band member, he's often paid in cash. he often has very expensive equipment with him as well. so he found the need to protect himself. like any american, he went out and purchased a gun so he could insure his security. obviously, he would find himself on the side of the road at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning, would be a situation where everyone would

want to protect themselves, especially from a white van with tinted windows coming up on you with a guy who steps out, who is not the police, or doesn't identify himself as the police, who approached you. he had every right to arm himself. i think that we ought to look here, because the officer says he's armed, it doesn't mean he tried to use the gun against the officer. just because you're armed doesn't mean an officer has the right to shoot you. >> officer claxton, what's the protocol for a plain clothes police officer in a situation like this? >> well, it's an interesting point because it's often said in police circles that good tactics saves lives. in this particular case, bad tactics can end lives. you're looking an an individual with, one, limited experience in that particular police department. from reports, he's only been there six months. he's alone at night, 3:00 a.m. in the morning, out of uniform, unmarked van. i mean, it's really a recipe for disaster. i think oftentimes what happens

is immediately, the knee jerk reaction is to do a victimology, the police department and state and local government decide to examine the victim in this case fully. i think there also needs to be an examination of the tactics and the individual, the police officer involved in this particular case because this is a situation, this could be a situation where the police officer initiated and instigated what ultimately happened to mr. jones. a pure avoidable tragedy. >> maria, let me let you in on this. you were telling a story on a break about witnesses a police officer in plain clothes. >> actually, as i'm watching more about this, i'm thinking about amado diallo, who was stopped, i think it was around midnight, 1:00 in the morning, at least four police officers all undercover, and omado is coming home and he's being chased by four guys wearing, you know, sweatpants.

you don't know in this situation. the story i witnessed is much less problematic than this. it was simply undercover police officers at 125th street detaining people, at least one woman who may have jumped the turnstile. what's interesting for me, first, i'm a journalist. that's my job. i'm always witnessing, watching, and asking questions. but when you see a group of people just standing and watching, nobody was filming it, just standing and watching, i thought, well, isn't this what public serve nlts are supposed to do? you are working for us. we want to assure that this interaction is safe and smart. and in the end, the two people they had stopped, they let them go. we heard them say, you know, try not to do this next time. both of them, very decent looking people, again, but don't we want people to be watching and as somebody who lives in harlem and has a lot of undercover police officers, i have said to my kids, you need to watch.

we don't know. it's an issue, where get police tactics bus this can backfire. >> this is florida, stand your ground. here is a man with a legal firearm, who thinks he's being rolled up on by somebody who may not be an officer. >> we live in a world with the hiller decision, an individual right to bear arms, in a state of florida that has the stand your ground law which says if you're in your own domasile, which in florida, includes your car, you have a right to stand your ground and use deadly force if you feel your life is threatened. one in 17 floriddians have a permit. and i had a conversation with a man who has a connection to the late mr. jones, and we had a conversation that was interesting because the question is this. had -- it does appear the officer was startled by an armed man, right? but what if corey jones, having been startled by an armed man, had been the one who shot and killed the officer? would he be charged with murder? would he be under arrest?

the probability is yes because that person was a police officer. what we see is an unequal standard. each is startled, each is armed, each in theory, one stand your ground as a civilian, one exercising deadly force as a police officer. why are those two standards so wildly different in a state like dplord? in a state like florida, it's really port because like ohio, which is even further, open carry, are we asking police to respond to the commission of an actual crime or are they doing prevention of a possible crime by scoping around people who are behaving lawfully. that's a problem. >> what are the unanswered questions that the family has, that they want to have answered? >> well, without question, we now know that the officer issued a full statement that they had not fully disclosed and gave the details on what the officer said. we know that the gun was found between corey's body and the car, but we don't know exactly where. the placement of those things becomes important. also, they have to answer the

question as to did the officer radio the interaction before he got out of the car? and they weren't able to answer the questions in the meeting we had with the state attorney's office. these are very serious questions because although they went to great lengths to examine corey, we need to now go to great lengths to examine the officer. remember, the first thing we heard from the palm beach gardens police chief was talking about corey, corey's gun, and when it was purchased. why was that more relevant than the officer who did the shooting? >> thank you, to darryl parks in las vegas. i hope we get the questions answered soon. and thank you to marquez claxton in columbia, south carolina. also, there was big news this week that largely went unnoticed, but don't worry, we got you covered. that big news is next. ♪ [music]

defiance is in our bones. new citracal pearls. delicious berries and cream. soft, chewable, calcium plus vitamin d. only from citracal. get fast-acting, long-lasting relief from heartburn with it neutralizes stomach acid and is the only product that forms a protective barrier that helps keep stomach acid in the stomach where it belongs. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief. try gaviscon®.

for fast-acting, long-lasting relief. ...of fixodent plus adhesives. they help your denture hold strong more like natural teeth. and you can eat even tough food. fixodent. strong more like natural teeth. fixodent and forget it.

outside of the benghazi hearings and vice president biden's announcement this week, other big news rippled onto our radar. news that drastically impacts our ballooning prison population. on thursday, the fcc took big

steps in lowering inmate calling costs which can go as high as $14 a minute by capping rates and eliminating most add-on fees. that news in and of itself was big news, but it wasn't the only criminal justice headline. a new group emerged this week, a group because of who its members are could have an impact on the goal of reducing incarceration rates. they call themselves law enforcement leaders to reduce crime and incarceration. >> our group has over 130 members from all 50 states of this nation. police, prosecutors, sheriffs, state, local, and federal. all united to say we must seize this moment to reduce incarceration in the united states. while keeping down crime at the same time. we can do it. and we know we can do it. >> in its debut on wednesday, the coalition offers three areas for reform. more mental health and treatment, reclassification of

crimes and changing mandatory minimums for drug and nonviolent crimes. joining me is benjamin david, district attorney in north carolina. i understand that you and other members of this group were at the white house on thursday, and i'm interested in what your takeaway from that meeting was. >> well, it was a great honor to meet with both president obama and the attorney general, who like us, is from north carolina. and to really have a meaningful discussion about how we can reduce both crime and incarceration in this country at the same time. it sounds counterintuitive but we can do it by focusing not just on life and liberty but the pursuit of happiness. >> follow up on that for me. >> it's about community engagement. 2 out of 3 people in prison today are high school drop-outs. we need to make sure people are staying in school, stopping the school to prison pipeline is what many people call it, and my community has passed that with

our local school board and officials. then for adults returning from prison, we need to have meaningful reentry. right now, 98% of the people who we put in prison are getting out and 66% of them are back in that prison cell within three years under the current rate of recidivism. that's completely unacceptable and obviously unsafe for everyone. getting them into jobs, removing the scarlet letter than the fallany often carries through meaningful expungement laws is absolutely essential to all of our public safety. >> maria, i want to have you respond to this. i know you have been doing some of this work on your show. >> right, so there is more money spent right now in immigration detention and deportation and enforcement than all other federal law enforcement agencies combined. and i didn't see that talked about in this meeting at the white house. so latinos also have one of the fastest growing rates of being put behind bars. every kind of bar. jail, prison, and detention

centers. so when you read in the "new york times" that they're releasing several thousand prisoners on a federal level. >> and a third of them were going to be immediately deported. >> probably not immediately because if they're losing money where they're not being held in prison, they're put into a detention center where they're going to make some money before they're deported. then, of course, we get to the whole question of who is actually a criminal within the context of immigrant and who is defined as a criminal by the administration. i'm really happy that this conversation is happening. i'm just very glad. i think it's a manifestation of a mature democracy that we're discussing this. but there's this whole other thing happening in our country that we're not seeven seeing. we're reporting it on latino usa, but it's not being talked about. >> you went to the profit piece. one of the things wecopy hearing is the one thing creating a bipartisan coalition is how

expensive this is. >> when you get ted cruz calling mandatory minimums draconian, you know you have bipartisan support. >> yes. >> and that's why. >> they realize it doesn't work. there is -- the number of -- you have john kasich in ohio, who instituted sentencing reform there. and there's no question it's bipartisan. it's because of the cost. this is what has made this politically powerful. >> mr. david, let me come back to you. >> it's not even bipartisanship. that means you're surrendering something to meet in the middle. this is the rarest of all reachers in washington. this is an identical coalition. i have a twin brother. he happens to be an elected republican, and i'm an elected democrat, and we feel the same way. >> i feel like i'm going to bring a camera on down to wilmington. the fact you're identical twins, one democrat and one republican, holding this office, sounds like

a story all by itself. >> well, but when it gets down to justice, we need to be taking politics out of it. whether it's for reconciliation, forgiveness, second chances on one side, or just bad business on the other, everyone agrees that we have to reform the system. and this really is about public safety. we want the right people in prison. there's no question. rapist, murders, arms robbers, everyone agrees they should be in prison. mentally ill, drug addicts, no one thinks we should warehouse those folks and we need to do more trust building in the community, both with our young people, keeping them in school, and adults to break that vicious cycle of recidivism we're seeing, the revolving door not just at the courthouse but in our justice system. >> thank you, a fascinating story i'm going to learn more about. still to come, a seventh church fire set in the st. louis area. and the growing feud between mr. trump and mr. carson. and hip-hop star drake

dancing like nobody's watching. more at the top of the hour. plaque psoriasis...

...isn't it time to let the... ...real you shine... ...through? introducing otezla, apremilast. otezla is not an injection, or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. some people who took otezla saw 75% clearer skin after 4 months. and otezla's prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't take otezla if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. otezla may increase... ...the risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression... ...or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. side effects may include diarrhea, nausea, upper respiratory tract infection, and headache. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take, and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ask your doctor about otezla today. otezla. show more of you.

deals are made over bacon. global trade runs on eggs. we've got breakfast for everybody. paleo people. we got sausage and bacon. vegan? i don't know what that is, but we got a lot of fresh fruit. you call yourself a glutenarian? hey, we've got cereal, bagels, toast, everything you can handle. we're insane in the grain! oh, pancakes, huh? i feel you on that. when you're not confident your company's data is secure, the possibility of a breach can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help. at at&t we monitor our network traffic so we can see things others can't. mitigating risks across your business. leaving you free to focus on what matters most.

welcome back. i'm melissa harris-perry. we have a lot to get to this hour, including the church fires being set in the st. louis area, and what's happening between mr. trump and mr. carson in the republican primary. but first, we want to get you the latest on the dangerous flooding being seen in texas as a result of the remnants of what was hurricane patricia. there was record rainfall yesterday in numerous cities including houston, austin, and san antonio. as much as 10 inches of rain fell in parts of the houston area overnight. that's on top of the nearly 6 inches that fell on the city yesterday. today, the flood threat shifts to the central gulf coast where heavy rain is expected to spread to the lower mississippi valley into monday. in the past 24 hours, the houston fire and police departments responded to 28 weather-related rescues. joining us is charles, in

houston texas. what are the conditions there now? >> hi, melissa. we're at the edge of downtown houston. this is buffalo bayou behind me. it looks like a dramatic picture, a lot of water in front of the downtown buildings, but the downtown area is not flo flooded. this is part of buffalo bayou as it goes around the northern edge of downtown houston. buffalo bayou is one of many streams in the houston area which got to bank full today, but really no major problems here. the flood stage here at this point was 21 feet. it got up to 23. compare that to the labor day -- or the memorial day flood a few months ago when it got up to about 30 feet and inundated homes and buildings. that is not the type of flood that has happened here today. we got about 10 inches of rain over a 12 to 18-hour period. the bayous here can handle that time of flooding. in fact, the office of emergency management here in houston has gone back to routine status, up from their high alert over the

weekend. so they obviously think that the worst is behind them. the low pressure system that generated this part of the remnants of hurricane patricia is now south of galveston, heading to the east. it will affect the lower mississippi valley in the days to come. but for now, the worst is over for houston. we're waiting for the sun to come out to start drying things out in the next day or two. >> thank you to charles had lock in houston, texas. this morning, congregations are gathering at seven churches all within ten miles of each other in st. louis, missouri. in spite of burn marks scorched into the doors. in the last two weeks. seven fires have been intentionally set at these churches, most started with accelerant applied to the exterior doors. the most recent was thursday set at the shrine of st. joseph. it's in a relatively secluded neighborhood to lead the police chief to believe that the person scouted the area and knew they

could get away without being seen. one church was nearly consumed by flames. while the seven churchers targeted vary in denomination, six search predominantly black congregations. investigators have not determined whether race is a motive, but the atf said this fire setting activity is meant to send a message. they let neighbors know about the $9,000 reward and the fire chief called on the community for help. >> it's becoming fairly apparent that somebody is trying to send a message. we don't know what the message is yet. i like to send a message back right now. you know, the churches have always provided assistance to everybody in the st. louis region. now it's our time for people of the region to provide assistance to the churches. >> it's important to understand the string of fires happened in st. louis, a city at the epicenter of protest and distrust following the det of

michael brown last year. all of the fires occurred near ferguson where last year they found a pattern of discrimination against african-americans. burning churches has been a tactic deployed by white supremacist groups for decades and a living memory of the civil rights movement. when it happens again, regardless of whether or not we know the actual motive, in this case, the linkage is made through the feeling, the experience of community. joining me now from st. louis is antonio french, alderman of the 21st ward in st. louis. nice to have you here, alderman french. >> good morning. >> again, i want to be really clear. we don't know anything about the motivation of the arsonists, but i wonder how the community is receiving and reacting to these fires. >> yeah. well, the community has really come together, religious leaders from various faiths, from different denominations have come together to stand together against this act of faterror, really.

that's what it's seen in the community as an act of terror where somebody is trying to deliberately send a message, though we're not clear exactly what that is. but people are angry, disturbed. and motivated to help find this person and make this stop. >> it's interesting when you talk about the community coming together. so much of what we heard and seen in st. louis and in ferguson has felt as though community was being rent apart. there's something about the sacred space, not unlike the tragedy that we saw in charleston, south carolina, where people just say, these sacred spaces, that's too far. >> right. you know, churches have historically been safe places, places where people come together to worship, to love. and for someone to target churches of all places, for destruction and to send some kind of message of hate or anger or whatever this message is, is really disappointing, especially in the face of all this community has gone through in the last year.

>> i'm wondering if there's a federal presence there. i know obviously, the depart of justice coming in the context of policing post-ferguson was an important turning point. i'm wondering if there have been fbi investigations of these fires. >> yes, so the atf on the scene working with local authorities, both local police and fire arson investigators. but as of yet, we have not had any leads that we know of. and certainly have not arrested anyone yet. most of these fires, as you noted, have been at african-american churches. the last one, though, seemed to be a different pattern. at a more mixed church in a different area. so it's not clear if this is the same person or maybe even a copycat. >> hold on for me a second, alderman french. one of my guests, maria hinojosa would like to jump in. >> i was wondering when i first heard about this story, and i'm sorry if this is a strange question, but the reward of only $9,000, i don't understand that. to me, it seems very small.

why isn't that reward a larger amount? is that anything that's come up at all? it seems like such a small amount to motivate somebody to come forward. >> yeah, i expect that number to grow. you know, this has happened over a very short period of time. i think the original amount started at $2,000 and grew to $5,000 and grew to $9,000. i expect that to grow higher. frankly, it shouldn't really take a reward for somebody to give information for this. this is our community, and if anybody has any information, it should not be motivated by financial gain. we should come forward and do the right thing. >> let me ask one last question on a slightly different topic. one last question. we have been talking a lot about policing this morning. one of the things is the idea of the ferguson effect, that post ferguson experiences after the death of michael brown, more than a year ago, that there is now kind of concern that police

officers around the country are not actively policing. is that a conversation there in st. louis and what's the nature of that conversation? >> yeah, that's been a conversation from the very beginning. there were some talk from some in law enforcement to explain an increase in crime as somehow the ferguson effect. i think if there is a ferguson effect, it is that vital connection, that relationship between community and police, has been broken and damaged. and it's very difficult for police to do their jobs without the support of the community. it's very difficult to catch crimin criminals, especially violent criminals and murderers without people coming forward. that's why that relationship is very important and we have to do whatever we can do to repair it as quickly as possible. it's how some of these, some of these discussions about accountability relate to high crime rates. >> thank you to alderman antonio french in st. louis, missouri, this morning.

appreciate you joining us. >> thank you. up next, we're going to turn to politics because this week, wow. just wow. ngs. when something works, people stick with it. more people stick with humana medicare advantage. because we stick with them. humana medicare advantage. the plan people stick with. was going to clean if an better than a manual? he said sure. but don't get just any one. get one inspired by dentists. with a round brush head. go pro with oral-b. oral-b's rounded brush head cups your teeth to break up plaque and rotates to sweep it away. and oral-b delivers a clinically proven superior clean versus sonicare diamondclean. my mouth feels super clean. oral-b

know you're getting a superior clean. i'm never going back to a manual brush.

i'm a gas service rep for pg&e in san jose.. as a gas service rep we are basically the ambassador of the company. we make the most contact with the customers on a daily basis. i work hand-in-hand with crews to make sure our gas pipes are safe. my wife and i are both from san jose. my kids and their friends live in this community. every time i go to a customer's house, their children could be friends with my children so it's important to me. one of the most rewarding parts of this job is after you help a customer, seeing a smile on their face. together, we're building a better california.

a key component to donald trump's campaign is his popularity in the polls, which is something he's loved to talk about. >> do we love these polls? somebody said, you love polls. i said that's only because i have been winning every single one of them. >> in the latest quinnipiac iowa poll, dr. ben carson has surpassed trump for the first time. trump responded by saying the pollsters just don't like him and then he turned his attention to the new front-runner. >> donald trump has fallen to second place behind ben carson.

we informed ben, but he was sleeping. ben carson is super low energy, right? super. he's super low. >> carson's team hit back, saying, quote, i have news for mr. trump. dr. carson was very much awake as poll number one was announced and poll number two and then poll number three, from the jindal campaign, all saying the same thing. carson takes the lead in iowa. wide awake. but there is good news for trump once the candidates move past iowa. a new poll shows 42% of all republican voters regardless of who they support, believe donald trump is most likely to be their nominee. and many in the republican establishment dismissed the summer of trump for a myriad of reason reasons, name recognition to fatigue, expecting a plummet in the rinkings which has not happened. fearing that trump could win the election, now there are rumblings of a possible takedown. if mr. trump were pushed out, who would supporters choose in

his place? i want to bring in my panel, joy reid, author of the new book "fracture, obama, the clintons, and the democratic divide." maria hinojosa, anchor of npr's latino usa, and john carlo who is a republican strategist and former press secretary to president george hw bush. we have been talking about mr. trump, and the polls for months. >> yes. >> what is happening? >> trump hit a bump. go to doctor seuss on this one. this iowa poll was real, in fact, we have our iowa poll coming out tomorrow that shows this is definitely a real trend in iowa. the evangelical vote in iowa is absolutely going for ben carson. but nationally still, there is this fascination with donald trump. he doesn't do well among a number of key voting blocks, we have been talking about

african-americans and latinos, but i'm not sure that he does have a path to the nomination. he does have a path to nomination. i think, though, however, he's not going to have a majority of delegates by the time we get to the end of the primary season, so the big question will be what do the other candidates do to coalesce around an alternative to donald trump. >> so this question for me is the big one. who is the alternative? ben carson sort of right now, but if i were a republican, i mean, this would be quite a moment. i would be a little stressed out. >> i think that donald trump has shown the blueprint for his own demise here. see saw in your clip how fond he is of talking about polls. early in the summer, he was very dismissive of polls prior to the time when he actually started leading in them, then that's all he could talk about. to paraphrase rahm emanuel, a noun, a verb, and a poll. that's all we heard from donald trump. and now one poll that has shown

not the results he would like, he's back to denigrating that again. it's that inconsistency that's going to begin to dawn on the minds of republican primary voters that, hey, wait a minute, maybe this is not our guy. >> carson pulled ahead of donald trump, dr. carson. he was just on "meet the press" this morning. i want to play the sound and ask about it. >> what if somebody has an unwanted pregnancy. should they have the right to terminate it? >> no. think about this. during slavery, and i know that's one of those words you're not supposed to say, but i'm saying it. during slavery, a lot of slave owners thought they had the right to do whatever they wanted to that slave. anything that they chose to do. and what if the abolitionists had said, you know, i don't believe in slavery. i think it's wrong. but you guys do whatever you want to do. where would we be? >> the comparison between the

dred scott decision and the roe v. wade decision is a common one within pro-life movements. the sawnuati conversation about the bodily integrity of each person also extending to the fetus is a standard one, but i think when it deploys specifically from an african-american candidate, i think there is a kind of power to it in the public sphere that will undoubtedly mean that comment will be played a lot. >> absolutely. it's important to note that that, as you said, that signal being sent by ben carson is one that may shock the average person when you hear it, but if you're in the evangelical movement or the anti-abortion movement, it says he understands it, it's common. most of the addressing of african-americans in the right-wing side of the movement is talking about the genocidal nature of planned parenthood's founder toward african-americans. >> alan keyes was the master, incredible at this. >> i think part of the reason for ben carson's staying power is you have each wing of the

republican party has their guy. and he has surpassed mike huckabee as really being the avatar for the evangelical wing of the party. it's interesting to me the way the party is breaking down. the neocons have marco rubio. establishment guys have their guys. but the evangelicals have ben carson. that's, i think, a durable, at least through iowa, support. >> yet, let me just say, i want to go back to the one poll result that really this week had us going, really? 42% are saying, yeah, well, whatever we want, we actually think that mr. trump is going to end up as the nominee. is that -- how important is that particular piece? >> those things tend to be the most predictive. more than the polls themselves. if you look at the predict markets, and we don't have intrade anymore, but people are very good. there's a whole theory about this called the wisdom of crowds. people are good at figuring out what the mass of people people believe in the aggregate.

if you aggregate their believes about what everybody else thinks, they tend to be accurate. >> i would be interesting to see what the party thinks. it's one thing to talk to likely votes, but when the party leadership are together, is that also kind of the perceived wisdom? >> to your point, one of the things about the predictive polls, they tend to be lagging indicators as well. we just had this massive number of weeks of positive coverage for mr. trump, the polls bore that out, and it really sunk into the consciousness of the so-called establishment that, hey, this might happen. i don't think the establishment is spending too much time worrying about whether it will or won't as much as what they can do about it. that's the tricky dynamic at play in the race. if the establishment sticks its snorkel out of the water and if the koch brother and if rienls priebus' aunt harriet launch a super pac to go after mr. trump,

that's going to fire up his base to support their candidate. it's how you bring trump down and the way in which you do it. >> i still don't get to how trump wins, actually numerically or in terms of the demographics. how he's able to win the election. >> the general? >> the general. i'm talking about the general. an assumption he's going to get the nomination, which i still think is difficult. but aren't you kind of freaking out about what that means for the republican party? >> when it comes to general, 100%. i was speaking in the context of the primary. in the general, it would be a 40-state plus loss, no question. >> you see, because of that, you see this sort of undercurrent of potentially going after jeb bush and pushing him to drop out. >> hey, hey, don't jump over to -- joy reid, just now she told you everything we're going to do on the tv show. up next, last night was a

very big night for the democrats. wait until you see what happened at the iowa jefferson jackson dinner. looks like some folks have had it with their airline credit card miles. sometimes those seats cost a ridiculous number of miles... or there's a fee to use them. i know. it's so frustrating. they'd be a lot happier with the capital one venture card. and you would, too! why? it's so easy with venture. you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, every day. just book any flight you want then use your miles to cover the cost. now, that's more like it. what's in your wallet? therthat can be serious,ere. even fatal to infants. it's whooping cough, and people can spread it without knowing it. understand the danger your new grandchild faces. talk to your doctor or pharmacist about

a whooping cough vaccination today. hi. hi. hello. hi. hi. hi. hi my name's josh. kelly. my name is raph. steve. my name is anne. tom. brian. krystal. and i am definitely not a robot. i'm one of the real live attorneys you can talk to through legalzoom. whether it's for your business or your personal life, don't let unanswered legal questions hold you up. because we're here. we're here, we're here, and we've got your back. legalzoom. legal help is here. each sheet is 75% more absorbent charmin ultra mega roll equals mega value. so you can use less with every go. which means charmin ultra mega roll lasts longer than even the leading thousand-sheet brand. enjoy the go with charmin.

in a take time for sunday.d... just know that your truck... has a little thing for monday.

last night in des moines, iowa, the state democratic party held its annual jefferson jackson dinner. it's always a big one for democrats, but in a presidential primary year, especially so. candidates are there to make their case to the most fervent activists and nak it last night, they did. >> as i said at the debate in las vegas, i'm a progressive who likes to get things done. >> and while all of the candidates here tonight share progressive values, not all of us have a record of actually getting things done. i do. >> about eight years ago, all of the political experts talked about how another democratic candidate for president just

couldn't win. he was unelectable. you remember that guy? what's his name? oh, it's president obama. well, iowa, i think we are going to prove the pundits wrong again. i believe we're going to make history one more time. >> and there for all of that excitement last night was nbc's kelly o'connell, who joins me now from des moines. now, look, bernie is not wrong there. the 2007 jj dinner was a big breakout moment for then-senator obama. was there a big breakout for somebody last night? >> well, melissa, i think it was different. for president obama, it really was a turn of the page from that moment on, he was on his way to the nomination. the feeling was different last night, although still very instructive about where democrats are. this is a pinnacle event. so the test is really how well did the campaigns organize. and for hillary clinton, it was

a day with a lot of show biz and polish in the sense she had katy perry in who was attending the dinner as well as doing a free concert earlier in the day. her supporters had these blue glow sticks that created fabulous imagery. on the other side, the bernie sanders team was a little rougher and a whole lot louder, significant in number. and their strategy was to make a deafening noise. so when the speakers, the candidates are at the center of the stage, around them are the tables for the official dinner fund-raiser, and then another ring of almost stadium like cheering sections, bleachers, if you will. so for bernie sanders, the energy was unmistakable. and he seemed, as a candidate, to really come, putting everything out there. where as secretary clinton, who gave a very strong speech, seemed a bit more subdued in her energy level and of course, she had a heck of a week, having prepared for and doing the 11 hours of testimony before the benghazi committee, and so sort

of her objective might have been a bit different. for hillary clinton, she was trying to make the message of she's always been a democrat, and able to get things done. and for bernie sanders, it was one hit after another, subtly, sort of attacking the record and the positions of hillary clinton. so a very eventful night for democrats here in iowa. >> man, i love iowa, kelly. i'm actually bringing 20 of my wake forest students up to iowa for the caucuses. i can't wait. it's so exciting. blue lights and cheers and stuff. good stuff. thank you to kelly o'donnell in des moines, iowa. still to come, the incredible, electrifying, and yes, head scratching and head scratching inducing dance moves of superstar drake. but first, what's going on with jeb bush. the sudden loss of pasture became a serious problem for a family business. faced with horses that needed feeding

and a texas drought that sent hay prices soaring, the owners had to act fast. thankfully, mary miller banks with chase for business. and with greater financial clarity and a relationship built for the unexpected, she could control her cash flow, and keep the ranch running. chase for business. so you can own it. chase for business. i've got two reasons to take that's why i take meta. meta is clinically proven to help lower cholesterol. try meta today. and for a tasty heart healthy snack, try a meta health bar. get fast-acting, long-lasting relief from heartburn with it neutralizes stomach acid and is the only product that forms a protective barrier that helps keep stomach acid in the stomach where it belongs. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief. try gaviscon®.

former florida governor jeb bush is in texas today, reportedly meeting with family

members and top funders to discuss his campaign finances. he appears to be attempting to regroup after announcing on friday he's slashing his campaign staff pay by 40%. that's not all that's going on with the gop's one-time front-runner. campaigning in south carolina yesterday, he sounded a bit, well, just listen. >> if this election is about how we're going to fight to get nothing done, then i don't want any part of it. i don't want to be elected president to sit around and see gridlock become so dameinant that people literally are in decline in their lives. that's not my motivation. i have a lot of really cool things i could do other than sit around being miserable, listening to people demonize me and me feeling compelled to demonize them. that's a joke. elect trump if you want that. >> here is governor bush's response when asked about the perception his campoaign might e falling apart. >> blah, blah, blah, blah. >> you know what they're saying?

>> that's my answer, blah, blah, blah. watch it. >> finally, jeb's reply when asked about donald trump's drop in iowa. >> i have -- i'm past donald trump. >> sorry, what is happening with jeb? >> low energy, that's not so far as the clips are concerned. >> i can't. don't even ask me about trump anymore. >> i was going to say, to me, clearly, the campaign is not in a position that it thought it would be at this part of the race. we know that. i think that's due to several factors. but primary among them is the fact that jeb knew all along he was going to face an anti-establishment opponent in this race. what the conventional wisdom thought it was going to come in the form of the right wing. in fact, it's now turned into what has become sort of the broken wing of the republican party. i think that part of that surprise, if you will, on behalf of the campaign, is reflected in jeb's struggles to date.

but he's husbanding his resources. and he's also going to do what he said he was going to do at the beginning of the campaign, which is run a race to enable him to have the resources he needs to compete late into the spring, and god forgbid, maybe into the summer. >> you say that's a smart administrative decision? >> yes, let's be realistic. the fund-raising numbers for the least quarter came out. he raised $13 million. h he has the benefit of a $100 million super pac behind him. those are going to carry him through the race as laungs as he wishes to tay in it. >> how long will he wish to stay in a race where the headlines are consistently that he is in fifth place, sixth place, seventh place, polling at 5%. one might ask why we even, in a headline, why he still gets to be in the headline? >> once the voting starts, that's when we're going to know. iowa, you know, i don't feel good about his chances there, to be frank, but every single state

after there, he has a real shot. >> i'm not convinced of bush. because it's the issue, you said, they thought he was going to fight an anti-establishment candidate. he's fighting the establishment candidates for positioning now. that's what's surprising. i think marco rubio is going to do a lot better in iowa. this is going to be the problem for bush. bush could do better in new hampshire, but the problem is do kasich and christie do better in new hampshire than bush, then we're heading to march 15th. the establishment knows that florida is winner take all, and they know dt will definitely win that state if it's both bush and rubio in the race. >> i want to ask a polling question in part on this, because the vice president choosing not to get in means we are much more likely, even more likely, right, to see hillary clinton as the democratic nominee. do you now at this point start polling each of these republican candidates over and against a clinton in the general election so that republican voters can

start making the decision based on what they presumably will be facing? >> i'll tell you a secret, that you won't see much difference. right now, when we poll that question, it's any republican against hillary clinton, and it's really a referendum on hillary clinton at this point until a true leader emerges. >> first of all, the peevish jeb is the one people in florida know. he's a peevish guy. he's not his brother. he doesn't have the sunny personality. any time he's been pushed in politics when there's a fight over his abolishing affirmative action, his response was to go in front of television cameras and say get their [ bleep ] out of here, that he was not a guy who has never been churlish, it's who he is. unfortunately, he's showing a little bit of leg in terms of who he is as a campaigner. >> maybe that would be a good campaign strategy in this particular primary where, like, apparently, that's what people want to see. >> to the extent this is a race about authenticity and about

republican -- the republican electorate wanting authentic candidates, jeb has remained true to himself. he has not morphed his position. and i think that will go well for him the longer he's in the race. >> the establishment has to decide which of the kasich, christie, rubio, or jeb can actually emerge as the anti-trump candidate. jeb bush has $100 million. what marco rubio is doing, he doesn't have his hands on it, but there's a nonprofit organization with the same name as the super pac supporting him that is spending 100% of the monthy spent to make him the candidate that emerges from the scrum. what you might now see is super pac versus super pac. but there's something a little bit desperate, sorry, about these undercurrents of maybe what should happen is all that money should go to rubio because i think people are thinking general election in the republican establishment and saying maybe we need to do an ethnic play. >> cantankerous curmudgeons and

battles. thank you to joy, maria, and john carlo. up next, how drake blew up the entirety of the internet with hotline bling, and black man vulnerability. it takes a lot of work... to run this business. but i really love it. i'm on the move all day long... and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost® to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones

and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste. i don't plan on slowing down any time soon. stay strong. stay active with boost®. if you have moderate to severe ...isn't it time to let the... ...real you shine... ...through? introducing otezla, apremilast. otezla is not an injection, or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. some people who took otezla saw 75% clearer skin after 4 months. and otezla's prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't take otezla if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. otezla may increase... ...the risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression... ...or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. side effects may include diarrhea, nausea, upper respiratory tract infection, and headache.

tell your doctor about all the medicines you take, and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ask your doctor about otezla today. otezla. show more of you. the markets change, at t. rowe price, our disciplined investment approach remains. we ask questions here. look for risks there. and search for opportunity everywhere. global markets may be uncertain. but you can feel confident in our investment experience... ... around the world.

call a t. rowe price investment specialist, or your advisor... ...and see how we can help you find global opportunity. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. have you seen hotline bling? the new video from the hip-hop also r&b artist drake, blew up the entirety of the internet when it was released on monday. why? it's hard to say. there's nothing particularly flashy or provocative or cutting edge. he doesn't kidnap and torture anyone, and he doesn't show his entire assets, allah beyonce. he did record a 24-hour music video through the streets of l.a. like pharrell did for happy. he just dances. i mean, not like justin timberlake or michael jackson or even channing tatum. he just kind of, well, you see what's happening there.

now, drake was roundly mocked via meme like this one of drake making a pepperoni pizza. uh-oh, what? or this one, with a cameo by carlton from fresh prince, but we were just hate watching hotline bling. we're also loving it, thus my gray sweatshirt, because it takes some boldness to be this dorky, to be vulnerable and soft and wearing an enormal turtleneck, cha-chaing for millions of people, and especially bold coming from a rapper-ish, and especially a black man. and that's the thing, being dorky or vulnerable or soft isn't the antithesis of manman, it's just another way to be black. like drake himself says, just be yourself. joy reid said she wanted in on this. so she's still here. when you talk about dorky black men, we said we have to to talk to michael denzel smith,

contributing writer for the nation. so nice to have you all here. >> i now know why we're here. great. i get it now. >> honestly, you know, we have been obsessed with this video in nerd land. we actually thought your take on it was the most perfect of all the many takes. so i just want to read this one part. in this video, you're seeing the confidence of someone who has been going to the same bar every other weekend for three years. it's post-posturing. it's when you show up in sweats at 1:00 a.m. because you can. it's how you dance when a public space becomes your living room. you're beyond needing to impress strangers because you're not the stranger, everyone else is. >> i wrote that. >> you did, and it's lovely. expand. say more on that. >> as soon as i saw the video within about ten seconds, i started thinking about different friends of mine that i had that behave the exact same way. and it would be, on an island, it would be embarrassing for that one person, but typically,

when there's ten of us all doing the same thing, there's this power in numbers, this confidence. i think the reason that the video with drake by himself is so interesting is he has no support system. >> yeah, no. >> just by himself. >> just doing it, yep. >> if i'm doing that, i want my crew to be like right next to me. like the same thing. but he's by himself. >> but it really actually is a level of vulnerability. and i think that's part of what's interesting about drake constantly, and it was so different about the back-to-back kind of feud songs. he does this vulnerability thing. >> he does that in a certain space, but then you have to unpack like what else is going on around drake that kind of allows him to be vulnerable, is that if he doesn't come through lil wayne and doesn't come through cash money and doesn't have that sort of credibility to co-sign him, are we as accepting of him. if he doesn't have hotlinbling, where he's basically chastising

his woman for not talking to him anymore. >> there's a little chastisinch but it's so pitiful. you used to call me, why don't you call me? are you calling somebody else? it's not quite the same thing. >> that vulnerable does exist, but it's also packaged with a certain, like, what some people are calling nice guy misogyny. drake is the prototype of the guy who, like, believes he's supposed to be deserving of attention and is mad that you're not giving it to him. but then he dances by himself, but you're like, yes, obviously, yeah. this is you, authentically you. >> there actually is something about that. i love the story you told about you start thinking about -- the first time you watch it, you're like, he's ridiculous. i would totally do that. in february, you wrote about drake in a totally different video, but talking about it's one of those drake songs that makes you smirk as you become the protagonist.

in this one, you become the protagonist as you start draking, as i call it, you're like, i also am not cool. >> i love this video. there are a lot of critiques in it interms of the derivative aspect, a light box artist who he's kind of stealing from him, and there's a cha-cha artist before him. there's a lot of critiques of the video on the other side of it, but the actual video and the performance drake is doing is so geeky and off the idea of what hip-hop is supposed to be that it's infectious. i went into a vortex on the memes of this video and i couldn't get out. it's so goofy. >> but the goofies happened before. i'm thinking about like fresh prince and getting jiggy with it. that is not -- >> he's tapping into a heavy d having fun, doing hip-hop. but like, that's not supposed to be our superstar. drake is the most popular rapper in the world right now. and he is a dork.

like, that's not supposed to be the thing. >> for me, it's almost like he's rubbing it in everyone's face. he's like, look what i can get away with. >> like i'm not hard core. >> for you, he's in on it. we're not watching him, i have a little bit -- when you say he's not supposed to be our superstar. i have an appreciation that black folks don't have to be cool. even when you think of president obama who is initially running on the aesthetic of the black cool, and then you have president obama in the mom jeans, and particularly president obama dancing in which he basically looks like drake when he dances. how is that different? >> that's cold. >> wow. >> that's cold. that's cold. >> oh, god. >> he trying to do the jack and jill. >> because black dorkiness could lead you to harvard law school and the oval office. i mean, not for drake. >> not cool is the new cool. this is the thing. i think for the thing about the

video and you were kind of saying this, it's like, it's such a mirror, and you're looking at someone kind of like, you know, show themselves a little bit and really let go of all pretense. and it makes you -- it makes you -- he's found another way to make -- >> right, so pause for a second. when we come back, there's a couple other things going on just visually here that i want to play around with. also, i want to see if i can make michael denzel smith cry when we come back. it's what sparks ideas. moves the world forward. invest with those who see the world as unstoppable. who have the curiosity to look beyond the expected and the conviction to be in it for the long term. oppenheimerfunds believes that's the right way to invest... ...in this big, bold, beautiful world.

skwhat are you doing? the dishes are clean. i just gotta scrape the rest of the food off them. ew. dish issues? cascade platinum powers through this brownie mess better than the competition, the first time. cascade. the wolf was huffing and puffing. like you do sometimes, grandpa? well, when you have copd, it can be hard to breathe. it can be hard to get air out, which can make it hard to get air in. so i talked to my doctor. she said... symbicort could help you breathe better, starting within 5 minutes. symbicort doesn't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden symptoms. symbicort helps provide significant improvement of your lung function. symbicort is for copd, including chronic bronchitis and emphysema. it should not be taken more than twice a day. symbicort contains formoterol. medicines like formoterol increase the risk of death from asthma problems. symbicort may increase your risk of lung infections, osteoporosis, and some eye problems. you should tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it.

symbicort could mean a day with better breathing. watch out, piggies! (children giggle) symbicort. breathe better starting within 5 minutes. call or go online to learn more about a free trial offer. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help.

we've been talking about drake's new hot line bling video. we'd be remiss if we didn't wish drake a very happy birthday, even if it's a day late. also celebrate a birthday this week, his 44th was snoop dogg. and snoop's son wrote a birthday message to his dad on instagram and explained why kordell, the son, a four-star recruit for ucla's football team walked away

from the game in august. he wrote, played football for my father because i thought that was the only way he would love me and be a part of my life. it took me 12 years to realize he loves kordell the person, not kordell the football player. the best day of my life was when i heard those words. is this a redefinition of masculinity. people are saying, we can understand that love one another affirm one another's sense of manhood without having to look in this very narrow way. >> that's a shift. i hadn't seen that. that's a beautiful thing to understand you have the love of your father like despite what you conceived would be the way to get that love. and that now it's because you have a connection as human beings and it's beyond sort of the performance of masculinity. so, yeah. certainly things that are shifting. i don't think we're completely there yet that we're embracing it wholeheartedly.

we can take pride in those little moments. >> it feels like it matters when it happens through hip hop. because hip hop has operated as this version of aspirational black manhood that when it's snoop, drake, kanye as we were talking about. this moment couldn't have happened without kanye initially, that it matters. >> it's the cosign. if they're cool with it, i guess i can talk about my dad, too, on instagram. if i see someone else like being the first to take that vulnerability step. >> i wonder if it's a version of queer politics being something more than sheer politics. part of what happens when hip hop has to back off of its one and only dis be -- when it has to back away from that. it needs some other way of defining what is problematic. and so you can, like, this is

actually part of the process. >> it's part of the process but i think it started earlier. when ice cube made that transition. the gen-xers. >> we just got old. >> started doing buddy pictures. once they did friday and they were comedians. it was a different world. >> only so much space for hip hop to have been countercultural and get accepted into the mainstream. try to still be countercultural. what is countercult oural at th point. it's rejecting all the things you once believed in. >> the other counter piece to me, his crew isn't around him and there's this empty space aspect. it's also the thing i like about the "single ladies" video. we watch them in this blank space performing the whole time. it gives you a different sense

of engagement with the performance. >> can we say it one time for the big girls. >> and the big girls also are doing something interesting. they're bored with the sexual performance on the hot line. whatever, your feet, whatever, and their bodies are doing that kind of like just standing there. at the end they're dorky dancing right along with him. >> every single thing, what both of you are saying is the thing that works with drake and ice cube, the thing that works with a lot of people, even beyonce is hot line bling right now only works because he also has like a back-to-back. you can be vulnerable, but we're still not at a point of pure 150 -- >> it doesn't get accepted without big boy being a pimp. i don't think he can come out with five more hot line blings.

there has to be a ambulanbalanc. >> it's okay to be dorkyish but not full dork. we're working on full authentic nerd blackland. we have one more little item to report this morning. and that's a birth announcement. check out this beautiful and utterly perfect baby son of frequent nerdland guest. his name is inspired by the saxophonist and jazz great sydney beckett and sidney poitier. 6 pounds, 9 ounces and shares one heck of a birthday with me and my executive producer, october 2nd. welcome to sydney and congratulations to the entire family. thanks to you at home for watching. see you next saturday. right now time for a preview of "weekends with alex witt."

a driver under arrest and dozens injured. what was it like to be at the osu homecoming parade when things went horribly wrong. a video shows just what happened during a hostage rescue mission in iraq. plus the idea that could change solitary confinement as we know it. don't go anywhere. i'll be right back. unfortunately, many people who spread it may not know they have it. it's called whooping cough. and the cdc recommends everyone, including those around babies, make sure their whooping cough vaccination is up to date. understand the danger your new grandchild faces. talk to your doctor or pharmacist about you and your family getting a whooping cough vaccination today. want bladder leak underwear that try always discreet underwear and move, groove, wiggle, giggle, swerve, curve. lift, shift, ride, glide, hit your stride. only always discreet underwear has soft dual leak guard

barriers to help stop leaks where they happen most and a discreet fit that hugs your curves, you barely feel it. always discreet underwear so bladder leaks can feel like no big deal. because hey, pee happens. get your free pair and valuable coupons at always discreet.com let's give 'em a great breakfast so they can go out there and kick the butt they came here to kick. the reason they hired me is because i care about the details. i care so much it hurts. it's the little things that make your stay awesome. like free breakfast. and pancake technology that i'm pretty sure we stole from the space program. one button. hot pancake. total victory!

this bale of hay cannot be controlled. when a wildfire raged through elkhorn ranch, the sudden loss of pasture became a serious problem for a family business. faced with horses that needed feeding and a texas drought that sent hay prices soaring, the owners had to act fast. thankfully, mary miller banks with chase for business. and with greater financial clarity and a relationship built for the unexpected, she could control her cash flow, and keep the ranch running. chase for business. so you can own it. chase for business. where our next arrival is... red carpet whoa! toenail fungus!? fight it! with jublia. jublia is a prescription medicine used to treat toenail fungus. use jublia as instructed by your doctor. are you getting this?! most common side effects include

ingrown toenail, application site redness, itching, swelling, burning or stinging, blisters, and pain. oh, epic moves, big j! fight it! getting ready for your close-up? ask your doctor if jublia is right for you. visit our website for savings on larger size. on the move. the storm that kept pounding texas with rain moves east. dr. ben carson tells chuck todd about his idea to pit college students against their professors. >> we're going to have students send in and we will investigate. and it goes in both directions. there's no reason our institutions of higher education should be used for indoctrination. new poll numbers show republicans aren't losing faith in their outsider candidates any time soon.