>> iowa, will you get your numbers up, please? what the hell are you people doing to me? please do me a favor, let me win iowa. now, if i lose iowa, i will never speak to you people again. and we'll have more from boulder in a moment. first to brian williams and to the news conference of the sheriff in south carolina. >> anything i say in the future should be construed of the actions of ben fields on monday. it is not what i expect of my deputies and not what i tolerate of my deputies, especially those in a school when we are dealing with juveniles. as in any incident, videos are very useful to us. we are glad that the students did take the videos. we welcome people to video us

when we do our job. and most of the time it shows that we are doing our job in a correct manner. and then when it shows we don't do it in a correct manner, we'll address it. but videos are something that we welcome. hopefully one day soon we'll have videos or cameras on all our deputies. we have them in the car, but we are not to the point where we have them on all the deputies. videos are just a snapshot and don't tell a complete picture. my job and our job is to get the complete picture. and to do that, we have to look at all the videos, we have to take statements, we have to look at everything so we can look at what the full picture of events are that happens in any kind of incident. now, this happened at 11:00 a.m. approximately on monday. we're just slightly over 48 hours. and i might have to say, i congratulate my internal affairs division for doing a very quick job and doing a very thorough

job in the task that i gave them to do. and that was to investigate this incident as a policy violation. to see if deputy fields broke any of our policies and procedures that we do. i think somebody asked yesterday, normally in cases like this, it takes a long extended time to do it. this one did not need to take very long. the videos helped, the statements we got, the proper procedures that we go by are already there for us to know. so it was not something that needed to take long and it didn't take long. i think sometimes in these cases and maybe other places they take a little bit unnecessary time. we felt like we needed to do this very quickly because the public needed to know what happened and what our response was going to be to this. again, our responsibility was to do the internal investigation

solely on policy violences. when this was first brought to my attention on monday, even though i was out of up to at a law enforcement conference in chicago, we took action very quickly. deputy fields was placed on suspension without pay. he's been on that until today. i also immediately contacted the fbi and asked them to do the criminal investigation on this. the first was a phone call followed up by a written request. i felt like the fbi was the only agency that needed to be investigating this that did not want anybody to come up with any type of reason to say that this was not properly investigated and handled by the authorities that needed to be handled. the fbi is one of the most trusted and respected law enforcement agencies in this state and probably in the world. and that's why i turned to them and asked them to conduct a full

and thorough investigation to see if there was any criminal violations. and the fbi accepted that. i also contacted the u.s. attorney's office and asked them to be part of that. and that the justice department be part of looking into these action also. our u.s. attorney also agreed to that. so the fbi and civil rights division has initiated an investigation. it was started yesterday. they have already had it full swing. we are fully cooperating with them to make sure that they have everything that they need. we took statements from the teacher and the administrator that was present. this incident started with a very disruptive student in a class. this student was not allowing the teacher to teach and not allowing the students to learn. she was very disruptive, she was very disrespectful and she

started this whole instance with her actions. she refused to leave the class as directed by the teacher. she refused to follow his instructions. he called for assistance from the school administrator. the school administrator got there. he was african-american. and he attempted to get her to leave the class also. she refused his instructions as continued disrespect to him. all the students were in the class. they are supposed to be there learning. their education was put on hold while this disruptive student had to be dealt with. at that point, the school resource officer ben fields was called. the situation was explained to him. he attempted to get the student to leave. he was then asked to remove her from the class. and at that point i think we have seen the various videos. i will note that the teacher and the school administrator in her

statements, both fully support the actions of ben fields. they said that he acted appropriately, that he didn't use excessive force and did what was necessary. and that's -- that came from both of them who were present when this happened. the third video from another student who also supports officer fields actually shows the student, female student, striking ben fields and her resisting when he tried to get her from her chair. once he put his hands on her, he was allowed to do that. he placed her under arrest and verbally told her she was under arrest. he attempted to use force to make the arrest. i do not feel that the proper procedures were used at that point. and that's -- that's what has caused me my heartburn and what my ashes are with this. the maneuver that he used was

not based on the training or acceptable. our training unit looked at it, they examined it. i have a written report from them, which i'll share with all of you, which goes into details on the force of how we train our officers and what we expect of them in circumstances like this. their recommendation to me was that deputy fields did not follow proper training, did not follow proper procedure when he threw the student across the room. from the very beginning, that's what has caused me to be upset. when i first saw that video and continues to upset me when i see that video is the fact that he picked a student up and threw the student across the room. that is not a proper technique and should not be used in law enforcement. and based on that, that is a violation of our policy and approximately 20 minutes ago school resource officer ben fields was terminated from the richland county sheriff's

department. we have some 87 school resource officers throughout the schools in richland county. every day these deputies do a fantastic job. they work very closely with the students, the faculty and the parents and develop a great relationship. monday's actions by deputy fields was not what the school expects him to do, i expect him to do, the parents expect him to do and the community expects him to do. we get cops grants. we get cops grants to assist us in putting school resource officers in our schools. as a requirement of the cops grant, we recently had an investigative team come down to do a routine examination of the school resource program. they went to various schools to look at the number of incarcerations that we have, the number of discipline actions

that are taking at our schools. the activities of our sros. in the schools they did a close examination of spring valley high school and talked to the school resource deputy ben fields and gave spring valley very high remarks for their efforts in reducing the number of arrests in that school. their examination is to make sure there's no civil rights violations with our school resource officers and the school district. and that was just recently conducted. my responsibility now is to continue to build and maintain the relationship that the sheriff's department has with the community. this is established by doing many things. the first one is taking responsibility for officers when they do something wrong. i've built my reputation on

standing up for our deputies when they are right and also standing up here and saying and admitting when our deputies do wrong. and deputy ben fields did wrong this past monday. so we're taking that responsibility for that. we need to act swiftly and with transparency. that's what we try to do. we also want to publicly address the situation and conduct an independent investigation. and we have done all those things. i feel like we have moved very quickly on this. we have done the right thing in our actions in terminating him. we are doing the right thing in continuing to build that relationship that we have with the community. i've contacted various elected officials from federal, state and local and discussed that with them. discussed it with our religious community. we have a group of pastors that are here with us now that i have been in close contact with. our citizens advisory council,

we have those members here. for those who are not familiar with us in richland county, we are the only agency in the state of south carolina to have the citizens advisory council. these are individuals from our community that come in and they review everything that we do at our sheriff's department. our policies, our procedures, our disciplinary actions, our terminations. they have full access to everything that we do. they help us have transparency. they help us have the voice of the community and everything that we do at the sheriff's department. they are here now. this case will be presented to him and they will review it. but we didn't have time to call an emergency meeting and present it to him first. i felt like we needed to do what we're doing right now and it needed to be done very quickly. but i've invited him to be here. the chairman is here and the majority of the members are here also. there are schools for education.

sros are a part of that process. and when a classroom is disru disrupted by a student, that disrupts the education process. and the students can't learn and the teachers can't teach. but we have to have discipline in our schools. now, whose responsibility is that? that falls on all of us, the parents, the students, that falls on the teachers and the administrations. we must not lose sight that this whole incident started by this student. she is responsible for initiated this action. some responsibility falls on her. now, the action of our deputies, we take responsibility for that. but we also have to put responsibility on her for disrupting that school, disrupting that class and calling this incident to start from the very beginning. now, what she did doesn't justify what our deputy did. i don't want anybody to think

that. it doesn't justify his action. but again, she needs to be held responsible for what she did. our schools must be an educational environment and it's the responsibility of everyone. it starts with the parents, goes to the students and through all of us. it's been very difficult for all of us. i will answer to the residents of richland county and also answer to my daughter in the seventh grade. i hope parents take the opportunity to sit down to talk to your children about what happened. this needs to be a learning opportunity for all of us. we need to talk to our kids that sometimes young people make bad decisions and should be held accountable for that. and that they should have discipline. and they should have respect. and they should have that everywhere but particularly in our schools. and i have talked to my daughter about that and talked to my

daughter also that police officers make mistakes, too. and they are human and they need to be held accountable and that's what we have done with deputy ben fields, we have held them accountable also. denying that this was a very terrible incident is not going to accomplish anything, so we are not denying that. but we also don't need to create unnecessary conflicts. this should be a time of building bridges and not tearing bridges down. my hope is that this community will remain to be here long after all the cameras are gone, that we continue to build bridge that is we have between our citizens and the sheriff's department. we have an excellent relationship here. and we are not going to let this tear us down. we will continue to have the advisory committee that is a tremendous asset to us, we have the religious community, all the communities here. we are not going to let this

destroy what we have built up for so many years and having a great relationship here between the sheriff's department and the citizens. questions? >> reporter: sheriff -- >> reporter: has this officer faced disciplinary action before? have you had complaints about his behavior, either directly to you or through parents or through school associations or the school district? and also, could you please give us his personnel file today. >> no, i'm not going to release his personnel file. no, not right at this moment i'm not going to release his personnel file. we'll deal with that. he's had complaints in the past. we have not had complaints from the school district on him at any time. we have not had any complaints from the school district on him. he has had complaints in the past. some of them have been us is taped the minute he's done them. and some of them have not been. he's been sued in the past. the lawsuit went to trial and a

jury found he did not do the things he was accused of. >> reporter: sheriff, can you tell us what ben fields should have done in that situation? >> i can tell you what he should not have done. what he should not have done is thrown a student. that's what he should not have done. he could have maybe done a lot of things he's trained to do, but he was not trained to throw the student. when you make an arrest from someone who does not have a weapon that you need to escape from, you never let go of that subject. you remain control of the person you're trying to arrest. when he threw her across the room, he lost control of her. that's not acceptable. that's violated our policy. >> reporter: has deputy fields expressed any remorse to you or to the department? >> i don't know if the word is remorse. he's sorry that this whole thing occurred. it was not his intent. his intent was not to bring

discredit to the sheriff's department or the school. he tried to do his job. and that's what he feels like he did, tried to do his job. it happened very quickly. his actions, if he had to do it over again, he probably would do it different. >> reporter: did you speak to him personally? >> yes, i did. >> reporter: as someone who doesn't have law enforcement training, how do you do that correctly? obviously, you don't throw them out of the chair, but how do you get her out if she's refusing to get out of the seat? >> well, the first thing you do is try to use verbal communications. we hope physical force would be the last resort. she wasn't a danger at that point. she was just being non-compliant and disrespectful. you try to use verbal commands

and try to do it verbally. and when you do have to put your hands on someone, there's techniques we are taught. there's pressure points and other things that you use. it is called pain compliance. and throwing someone across the room is not pain compliance. and that's not something we teach. >> reporter: sheriff, clearly you are taking this at the utmost of seriousness. we have heard from the community with the backdrop of the church massacre here earlier this year, baltimore, new york, ferguson, everything that's happened here. can you tell us what is it like? there's great interest around the country in what is it like to be at the center of something like this at this particular time. you have been involved in law enforcement for 20 years, i'm sure much longer. the country has changed, what is it like to be here today? >> i think what you're seeing today is bringing to it the best of the columbia community.

you haven't seen riots, you haven't seen protest, you haven't seen burning the buildings, but what you have seen is people coming together. we have numerous churches represented here with the citizens advisory council here. i think people know we are going to do the right thing and expect us to do the right thing. and that's what you're seeing. you're seeing some swift action by us. you're doing the right thing. that's what this community expects us to do. and they waited to see us do that. if and i think you have seen that throughout this we try to address the solution head-own and try to move on. that's what you are seeing here. >> reporter: sheriff, initially your office told us there were no injuries sustained in this incident. yesterday you characterized it as something like rug burn. now i hear that she has sustained injuries to her arm,

neck and back. is that accurate? >> i gave you the information that i was told. that's what officers on the scene and the school administration all expressed. nobody said anything about any injuries besides what i described yesterday as occurring. now, what has occurred and what she told her attorney may be a different story. >> reporter: while he was seen violating policies and procedures, what are you going to use from this as a training exercise? >> we'll use this as a learning tool. we'll make sure that all the deputies in schools and throughout the sheriff's department learn from that and know you have to do things differently and not like he did. we are also going to work closely with the school districts and maybe understand that when they call us, they are there to take action. if they want us to take a law enforcement action, we'll do

that. but if they don't want us, then they don't need to call us then. maybe it needs to be re-examined on the role of the sros are using us for. should he have been called? we'll talk about that. maybe that should have been handled by the school administrator without calling the deputy. >> reporter: you said her actions were very disruptive in the class. can you give specifics on how and what she did to be very disruptive? >> she was not following instructions from the teacher. there were concern things they were to be doing. they were studying from crum books. he asked her to put her phone up and she was not doing. he was trying to teach. this teacher was trying to

teach. she was preventing that from happening by not paying attention. then she was verbally disrespectful. when he wrote her up and told her to go to the office, she continued to disrupt the class. so from the moment that he start started this, she resisted. >> reporter: were there any prior behavioral issue with the student or anything that officer fields would have been aware of? >> i don't know. i don't know the student's history at the school. and really, to me, that doesn't matter. that's not something we looked at. and i think i said that yesterday. the student's behavior, what she did, would you describe not what i looked at. what i looked at is what my guy did and he was terminated for.

his actions, not anything he had to do. >> reporter: it seems deputy fields had a reputation among the students. they nicknamed him officer slam. was any of that brought to your attention? >> no. he's been in the school for seven years. he's highly respected as a school resource officer. they wanted him at spring valley. he has tremendous support from faculty and staff at spring valley and from the students. of course, when something like this happens, you do have people that are going to come up to say things they have never said before. we have never heard anything like that. it has never been a complaint. it's been absolutely totally the opposite because the school wouldn't allow them to be a football coach otherwise. he was part of that school and that staff. so there was no sign or indications or anything like that. i've read and heard some things that students have said, but

i've also been contacted by a lot of parents, a lot of students, and from officials from that school who were totally in support of him, what he's done in the past and what he did the other day. but again, my decision is based on what he did as a deputy sheriff. when he put his hands on her and threw her across the room, that's when i made my decision. >> reporter: we have been talking about the policy, what injuries did the student sustain? >> i don't know. i have just heard the same news reports that are turning now. again, you have to look at what happens now. how different people now become involved in it. i have heard criticism that i didn't move fast enough. this is slightly over 48 hours. i doubt very seriously has there been any other case in the nation of something like this that moved as quickly and we

took action as what we have done. that's what we are going to do. somebody in the back had something. >> yes, have all the charges been dropped? then why was she arrested? >> i don't know all the facts about her. i did not deal with that. to my understanding, no charges have been dropped against anybody. and to my understanding, the charges are going to continue. what they did was wrong. they violated the law. now, what officer fields did is wrong also. we're dealing with that. but we're not going to lose sight of what the students did also. so i don't know all the facts. i don't know all the facts from her arrest and can't address her. but what i'm addressing is what my officer did. >> what about in the past, can you talk about past complaints and the ones sustained?

>> no, i don't know about that. if the school thought that he was a problem, they wouldn't have allowed him to be at spring valley for seven years. prior to that, he was at wright middle school and received the award for character and stuff. so, honestly, i don't know. i have not been concerned about that. what i have been concerned about has been what happened at spring valley high school. that's what i looked at and that's what i made my decision based on. >> reporter: so who will face what happen students going forward? what will the student face now that you have gone through the investigation and can properly charge them? and then will the officer face any charges? >> i don't know in the officer is going to face charges because we only did the policy

violations. that's up to the fbi. if the criminal charges come, it will come from the united states attorney's office. the students arrested, there is no charge or a change with that at all. they still need to be held accountable for their actions. what deputy fields doesn't excuse them for what they did. and to me that's two separate things. he did wrong, they did wrong also. he's been held accountable for his wrong. they should be held accountable for their wrong also. >> reporter: sheriff, you mentioned that the teacher and administrator gave statements in support of deputy fields. can you tell us a little more about their statements? what did they support? >> they felt like everything he did was correct, even the physical part.

they had no problems with the physical part. from the two other adults in the room. and one student in the room also who videoed it. yet again, i'm the one who has problems with it. he didn't follow our policy, so i have a problem with that and i deal with that. we have listened to them, we took their statements in what they saw, but again, i have to make the decision. is he someone i want representing me wearing my badge and going out to carry out my duties. and my determination is no on that and that's why he was terminated today. >> reporter: do you know him personally? >> i have 100 employees and pretty much know every single one of them. that's one of the things that is very important to me, that i do know all my people personally. is it difficult? it was the right thing to do.

people want me to make the hard decisions and e made that decision today. to me it was not a hard decision. it was very evident that i needed to make. and i made it. >> you said this was a berning situation. don't you mean a learning situation? >> the positive i learned is that this community can stand tall and can work together. and that we won't allow an instant like this to tear us apart. that's probably one of the biggest things that i learned is all this time we have built a relationship with the community. for all these years it showed. it showed having a citizens readvisory council as a positive thing. and i have been criticized a great deal within the law

enforcement for having a citizens advisory council. for years we were the only ones who had it and the other agencies criticized us for having citizens come in and see what we do. and have a voice whi. we should have a citizens advisory council. what i have learned is the hard work and efforts we have put in these years worked. and it shows it is continuing to work and we'll continue to move forward with it. >> in terms of the student not involved directly with the video but charged with disrupting class afterwards. if her disruption came after almost in response to what she saw happen to the deputy, why wouldn't her charges stem to drop if you're saying that the deputy -- >> brian williams here in new york. and we have breaking news from this hour coming from columbia, south carolina.

whereas you just heard, we have been monitoring this deputy fields that is out of a job. the man at the center of this video that has transfix ed what occurred over the last few days. the sheriff said that officer fields was let go. what stood out to you, craig melvin? >> reporter: he talked about how the student was disrupting class. and it seemed as if there for a while there the sheriff was explaining why it was he was going to let ben fields stay on the force. but in the end, he said that it was not a hard decision to fire the deputy. i spent about 30 minutes with sheriff lott yesterday. he's been the sheriff for almost two decades.

when he first saw this unfold in chicago on business, he watched the video for the first time through the prison of a father. he mentioned his 12-year-old daughter and he has two other daughters. i actually went to school with the two older daughters. the sheriff lived just three streets over. but he watched that video through the eyes of a father and it made him want to throw up. he was disgusted. so yesterday by the end of that conversation, i got the impression that the sheriff had already made up his mind about the future of-deputy. this is a deputy in addition to being the school resource officer here at spring valley high school, he was also a high school football coach. we talked to a number of students and parents who said up until what happened monday morning in that algebra class he was fairly highly regarded in the school. sheriff lott receives accommodations from nearby schools and the district as

well. but again, within 48 hours, and keep in mind, that's something important to note here, we're talking less than 48 hours after that video surfaced, the sheriff's deputy has been fired. i've also spent some time talking to the attorney who represents the girl who was thrown to the floor. that's a 16-year-old. they are planning a civil lawsuit. the attorney also saying that one of the things he wants to have done is have her record expunged. we heard from the sheriff that those charges are going to stand. one of the other students in that class was also charged. this was one of the students who shot the video. she was charged with disrupting school as well. that was because according to officials she was screaming expletives at the deputy while all this was going down. she has been retained and her attorney as well. she wants to have her record expunged, too. one of the things that sheriff lott told me yesterday and the attorney said the same thing, this idea that seems like this

instance is like this, this idea that they are becoming more a commonplace. what they do believe is these things, cell phones, smartphones, are ambiquous. kids have these in schools now. and any time there's interactions with law enforcement, people start rolling tape, brian. >> it is disconcerting when you have to go home to cover a national news story. i remember weeks ago you were home covering flooding and now you're home covering this. so may the next story you go home to cover be something happy for a change. craig mel vip juvin just across street from where the press conference was taking place. here in studio we have ari here with us. the charges that still remain on the other students, will they hold? >> i'm not sure they will hold,

but that's the other big headline here. we are talking about basically charges that remain against the student. so this officer lost his job. he is fired. but there are no local charges against him for what many view as a question of whether it was excessive force. the sheriff simply saying we'll leave that to the fbi and the federal government. meanwhile, the bystander who saw this was trying to intervene as a matter of safety. she is still facing criminal charges. the other headliner as craig mel v vin told us the family wants to move forward with a civil suit against the officer. that's going to open a second round of legal proceedings around what happened, whether it was appropriate and if inappropriate, what other consequences would come for this officer. >> and we have seen cases like this. we have seen foot dragging by law enforcement and management. but i think, in this case, the

chief wanted action for acting quickly. this has been just since monday and i think people give him credit for doing just that. that's the situation. the breaking news we have been covering in south carolina. back to boulder, colorado, we go. the voice we heard at the top of the hour, the host of this hour, andrea mitchell on the day of the gop debate there tonight. andrea? thank you so much, brian. and the cnbc debate here tonight, we are going to drill down on the economy. a critical test for all the republicans candidates, especially those long on boasts but short on specifics. and we are talking to chris jansing, katy tur, halle jackson

but let's have chris jansing start us off. >> reporter: i just got an e-mail from chris or ben carson's aide now as a frontrunner he'll be a target, both by his fellow candidates as well as tough questions as you say on the economy by the moderators. how will he hold up under the scrutiny? that's the big question, andrea, for ben carson tonight. >> and the big question, thanks to chris. the big question now for donald trump, is he going to attack ben carson? katy tur, you're covering what trump has been up to all along. >> reporter: i think we can expect him to attack ben carson one way or the other, but he's already lowering the expectations for the debate tweeting out just now that he's looking forward to what he is sure will be an unfair debate. but this is a chance for donald trump to really shine. it's a chance to prove that he is the right leader to turn this country around.

that he'll create jobs and that he'll run this country like he runs one of his businesses. it's a chance for him to shine, especially against ben carson. but will he come out prepared? the campaign does not release specifics on how they prepare and have been accused in the past of not preparing well for these debates. andrea? >> and thanks to you. and kasie hunt is covering jeb bush. and it's a chance for him to amp up his performance. >> reporter: we actually just saw jeb bush to pull up to do a walk-through of the debate. dressed casually in jeans and a white shirt. i was talking on the phone with someone close to the bush family for many years. while they say the summit was something that people came out of feeling better about than anyone expected, there was definitely a lot of apprehension going in. but he did, they say, jeb bush did perform pretty well in this

class of donors. people saying if he performs the way he did in front of the small audience on the debate stage, he'll have a chance to get his frontrunner status back. but the pressure is really on tonight, andrea. >> thanks to you. and halle with marco rubio, a lot of pressure on rubio now. halle jackson, what about the "sun sentinel" and the hometown paper saying marco rubio has missed so many senate votes that he should quit the senate as long as he's running for president. >> reporter: an unusually harsh editorial and a major florida paper that said rubio should resign. two quick points to make here. one, this is an attack that rubio addressed directly before and said that he does constituent services. he says he comes back to senate votes when they are key, when they are more than what he called show votes. and the campaign makes the point that, you know, he is coming back for votes, skipping fund-raising events when he

needs to be. also "the sun sentinel" endorsed him back in 2010. on the other hand, this is something marco rubio has to face down for months, for as long as he's in the race he'll be missing senate votes because obviously running a presidential campaign is almost like a full-time job. and this opens him to attacks, not just from republican rivals but in the general election if he makes it that far. that being said, marco rubio woke up, went to church and will be here for the walk-through in a little bit. >> thank you to all of you. and joining me in the cnbc spin room for a deeper dive into tonight's debate, what are we going to be looking for? nbc's chuck todd, moderator of "meet the press" and "hardball's" chris matthews. we'll talk about the five things you want to look for tonight. >> you have five of them already. let me see if i can come up with five. >> donald trump. >> how does he handle -- >> being in second place? how does he handle -- does he go

after ben carson, who is so strong because he's being nice -- >> jeb bush was a better foil for trump. you can see trump is uncomfortable on that front. i see it in the reverse. yes, you can't -- i guess unless somebody streaks on stage, there's always a part of this going to be about donald trump. but i want to see ben carson, he's going to get treated like a frontrunner for the first time. how does he handle some incoming? there's not going to be a lot but there's going to be a little bit. he's going to be a brushed back pitch or two during world series time. how does he handle that? i'm curious to see who jumps on rubio with this senate stuff. christie and kasich are in desperation mode and i think they are going to be pouncing on rubio. you have to remember, the establishment wing of the party is all fighting amongst themselves right now. jeb, rubio, kasich, christie, they all could be hammering each other while sort of cruz and carson and trump hang over here.

>> and chris matthews. >> i think the big question is can trump do his power play tonight? don't worry about carson. help won't be that impressive on the economy. talk about the major economic worry everybody has, which is we have zero interest rates, we have a slow recovery and a fear that the government has no more tools left. and then we have another drop in the economy, there's nothing left. you have negative interest rates. what are you going to do? bigger deficit? the country really worries about the inability to deal with the microeconomy. and the hope is, that's why people look to trump, he because of his business paralysis, might have a hold on the country to save us. they need help. the people. they are scared to death that the economy is going to take another dump. >> will both the frontrunners handle the question from the three moderators, smart, economically versed -- >> chris, you're right. let carson deal with the

moderators. because the moderators are probably going to -- look, i just had a long interview with him. on the issue on this health care plan, he gets animated on what he knows. and where he's comfortable and is really comfortable, for instance, on health care. and it was a different ben carson if you watch my interview. i don't know what it will be like. we didn't dive deep into his tax plan or deep into trade. this is going to be -- this is going to be a different type of crowd that's going to be watching. so i think you're right, trump can almost ignore carson and let the moderators have at him. >> i think all of them are going to jump and criticize the budget deal and debt ceiling. >> will they, though? will john kasich? >> john kasich won't. >> will jeb bush? i don't know. it's funny you say that. i don't disagree most of them. but will all of them? >> what about the test for jeb bush, you'll be interviewing him on "meet the press" this coming

week? >> he's got so many people backseat driving him. he's got his brother, he's got his mother, he's got other family members. he's got a lot of smart people that care about the bush family and care about him. he's got to be careful of being the golfer that has too many tips running in his head. that's the thing i would worry about if i were his advisors. he's got so many people telling him to do this or do that. >> he's got to have more energy. then he looks at dr. ben carson and says, that's more energy? i think the big story is that hillary clinton has been so effective starting with that great debate prep she did a week ago, so fabulous last night on stephen colbert. she last night is the way she meets with us privately in personal terms. she was fabulous. finally the establishment people are thinking, my god, we are going to lose to hillary clinton. another four to eight years unless we get our act together. they have not gotten their act

together. maybe tonight they sober up. maybe. >> what about john kasich who really started firing up in the last 24 hours. is he showing desperation or showing that the establishment really is beginning to say -- >> can you answer question to both? >> can any of these guys run against hillary clinton? >> i think it's a little bit of both. but there's something going on in the republican party and there's a little export/import bank. a lot of republicans said i'm tired with the base and will work with democrats to get it done. john boehner, i'll light myself on fire and you get to do it. and i'm going to raise the debt ceiling. there's a whole bunch of establishment republicans now saying to the base, as embolden as the base is, we are tired of cow-tying to you. i think it may open more wounds and become more bloodier politically, but it's a new twist in this fight. >> the establishment may be

sobering up, but the answer in terms of picking a candidate can't be an establishment candidate. they have to pick someone who says revolution in a big way, big change. hillary is the status quo. and the democrats the like her at status quo. so they have to offer a change agent. so that's why trump is still in this mix. he's still there. if he can fight in the scrum -- >> that's the case for marco rubio. generational change. >> it's been nothing but there's always this case for marco rubio. at some point -- >> he's got to make the case for himself. >> everybody else is saying, well, rubio this -- at some point he has to perform. >> not showing up for work is not a good sales pitch, though. >> we'll see you at 5:00 and you at 7:00. >> and then afterwards for a couple hours. >> we are all camping out with you, brother. >> you are coming back as well, thank you. >> i'm going to go now to washington. joining me now from washington is democratic chair and congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz. you have heard the setup here.

is it a foregone conclusion that hillary clinton is going to be the nominee with a 40-point lead now in iowa according to at least one poll? >> you know, that's not for me to say. it's my job as the national party chair, as you know, andrea, to neutrally manage our nominating contest. and i have just been really so proud of all of our candidates. we have three candidates in the race now. and they have gotten more established in our two-hour debate than the nearly ten hours of debates we have already seen from the republicans, which have mostly been a food fight. including leading up to their opening act today when the argument prep for this debate was not over substance but was over which green room, which candidate had a nicer green room. i can tell you that what i discussed with our candidates leading up to our debate was structure that ensures one of substance. and we proved that ours are

substantive, understand the economy is critical as an issue, and that's why americans saw the 45th president of the united states of america on our debate stage last week. >> and the house freedom caucus, the former tea partiers announce they are going to vote on the floor against the budget deal? >> well, it's pretty unbelievable that the tail is still wagging the dog on the other side of the aisle. the republicans are doing their best to, quote, solve their tea party problem. but they've got a strangle-hold on the republican conference. and on the republican party. and they essentially have been dictating terms on the issues that rise to the top of the republican agenda at every debate. americans want to hear how we're going to continue to move our economy forward, like they have heard from our candidates. our candidates talked about the 67 straight months of job growth that we have had in the private sector. the fact that under barack obama's leadership we cut the deficit by two-thirds and need to continue to move forward with economic policies that strike

that balance. what we'll hear tonight from republican candidates is more of the same, they want to actually take us backwards to the failed policies that got us into the worst economic crisis since the great depression in the first place. that's the contrast that voters will see tonight. they are going to walk away scratching their heads and feeling frustrated and that will bode well for our candidates moving forward. >> congresswoman, thank you very much. and joining me now from washington, tim weber, a jeb bush supporter. and advisor to the 2012 romney campaign. you have been watching what's happening on the hill, is paul ryan setting the case for a governing strategy by republicans? at the same time, you got the freedom cause us the announcing today they are rebelling already against the budget. how does that work for you? >> i'm not at all surprised the freedom caucus is not voting for the budget. the important thing is most of them are voting for paul ryan. and i think paul -- we have a challenge in our party, no

question about that, but i think that paul ryan as speaker turns the page for us in a positive direction. he's very policy oriented. that's what he did and was known for in the budget committee and known for in the ways and means committee. that's what he was known for when he was the vice presidential running mate. he's a national spokesman because of his visibility and gives us a strong chance to go into the election year much more focused on policy and the future than we have been in the past. but there's no question, we still have a few problems in our own party. the only thing to add to that is the tea party is not setting our agenda anymore than bernie sanders is setting the democrat agenda. people are not paying a lot of attention to the democrats these days, but the democrats are being pulled to the left. look at hillary clinton coming out against the trade agreement that she once endorsed. her rhetoric on wall street and business have become anti-business. bernie sanders is not going to win the nomination but he's making sure the democratic party does not do what it did when bill clinton was president and move to the center.

he's moving them to the left. >> what does jeb bush have to do tonight to show that he's tougher, smarter candidate than he's been so far? >> well, i think the key for governor bush as well as for the other candidates up there, the non-trump candidates, is to get the debate shifted to policy. jeb bush is excellent on policy, whether it is trade or taxes or education or economic growth. he really knows how -- what he's talking about on those issues. as long as the campaign is focused on personalities and polls and things like that, you can see there's advantage for outsiders like trump and maybe carson as well. they don't want to simply try to replicate in my judgment the trump personna or the carson personna. they want to shift the debate to policy and toward indicting the democrats on policy. congressman wasserman schultz was very good, but the democrats are going to have to explain why

stagnant wages and 2% growth are a good thing for this economy because that's the best they have delivered. the republicans need to say we have policies that will make the economy grow faster and make wages move up. >> vin, john kasich has started to really start slamming jeb bush, in particular the other candidates as well. what does that tell you about some of the other non-carson, non-trump candidates this year? are they beginning to see that time is getting short and that they've got to somehow figure out a way to punch through? >> i like john kasich a lot. he's a friend of mine and he would be a good candidate, too, not as good as governor bush in my view, but i think there's a little bit of that. i think what happened on the republican side is trump jumped in, jumped to the top of the polls and froze the race. and after about four months of the race being frozen and nothing seemingly able to pull him down at all, the other candidates are all getting a little panicky and need to

resist that. i think dr. carson's jump in the polls in the last week is more important than just ben carson. i think it amounts to unfreezing on the republican presidential side. and i would be more surprised if we didn't see more one movement and that's opportunity for candidates not to get frustrated with the process but to get into the process with their own vision. john kasich can do that very well. >> thank you so much. vin weber, we'll all be watching. and let's get a look at tonight's cnbc debate with one of the moderators, becky quick from cnbc. becky, i know we're not going to talk about what you're going to ask, but a lot of frustration among politico reporters in general and the public that we have not heard specifics, policy specifics on the economy from a lot of these candidates. particularly the high flyers, donald trump and ben carson. >> i think that's very different this time around. just the level of noise, the level of entertainment, frankly, that's been happening with at lo of these issues.

and that's one of the things we want to dig into. being on a campaign is really about trying to be all things to all people, but i think part of our job with the debate tonight is trying to narrow that out and make them take stands on issues. >> when we look at the bigger questions, you've got a fed meeting announcement coming today, in fact. a lot of uncertainty about what is happening in the economy. what is happening in china, what is happening in europe, you know, the big picture of wage disparities. and the democratic party moving farther to the left, just last night on stephen colbert's late show, hillary clinton said let the banks fail, fail, fail, fail, let them go under. nobody's going to get bailed out. if bernie sanders has had a profound effect on what hillary clinton is saying. >> he has. and there are elements in the republican party pulling them to the right. and i think that's why this is a different debate cycle, too. you won't get the same answer from every candidate on the stage. a lot of times you say this is the republican view on things

and this is the democratic view on things. but not this time around. there are going to be three or four different opinions on every subject that we tackle tonight. and that's what i hope we can bring out. >> immigration, of course, is a very big issue. we have seen the way donald trump started his campaign. and there's been some fault that he might return to his more variable comments on immigration. it's really interesting that the american people are hungry for two things it seems to me when they look at the republican candidates. the niceness, the credibility, the sort of quiet strength of ben carson. and the bombast and the ability to perceive donald trump. >> and that's the effectiveness of washington over the last several years. when nothing is getting done, they are looking to outsiders and looking to someone with business experience along those lines. i think you're absolutely right with that. i think the question is if they hear more and more about the details of the plans, will they

still be sticking with that and still be what they want to hear? that's the challenge for the candidates who already hold political office. you have to prove to the voters you have a plan and can get something done. because when they look at the gridlock we faced for the last couple years, they say forget about it. we need somebody to get things done. >> becky quick, we'll all be watching. thank you so much. >> thank you, andrea. >> that does it for this very special edition of "andrea mitchell reports" live from boulder, colorado. and don't forget to watch the debate tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on cnbc. remember, following the show online, on facebook and on twitter @mitchellreports. my colleague, thomas roberts, is next with "minneapolis live." "msnbc live." l. when we say real meat is the first ingredient, it is always number one.

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colorado. ten republican candidates will gather for the cnbc hosted republican debate. and this is the third televised for gop presidential hopefuls. the timeline? two hours of debate with an undercard match featuring the four lowest polling candidates. tonight it will focus on economic policy. the context of the third debate is very different from the last two. more candidacies in peril. a new possible frontrunner. and all that happening is the party itself being divided on a new budget deal to avoid a government shut down. earlier reince priebus spoke to cnbc to say this about whether to expect fireworks between the front-runners, dr. ben carson and billionaire donald trump. >> obviously, i think dr. carson is saying he's not going to take the bait. i think others are saying they are going to come out aggressively. i think all the candidates aught to consider reagan's 11 commandment and conduct themselves in a way good for our party and country and think they will. >> we shall see tonight. joining us from boulder