network is offered a multimillion dollar ad buy. that's an ad buy for multiple blockbuster ads to run across the network, to run on the super successful super high-profile late-night comedy show, andedases will run on the evening and morning newscasts, on the weekly newsmagazine show. it's a multimillion dollar advertising deal, and it's to run ads for a new movie made by sony pictures, a mainstream movie. obviously a mainstream movie studio, but in this case the broadcast network does the unthinkable in business terms. the broadcast network in this case turns down the money. turns down the deal, and says they will refuse to run any of the those ads on any of their programs. at the same time the conservative cable news network you might have heard of, the fox news channel. fox news and the raging

right-wing new york city tabloid newspaper owned by the same billionaire who owns fox news, "new york post," both fox news and "new york post" go on the warpath against this movie. the "new york post" denounces the film as wacko. the fox news channel brings out not just karl rove, but chris wallace as a host to both denounce the movie, on "fox news sunday" what is going on is a provocative confluence of events between this new movie and up-to-the mint current political events, and the trailing ends of a scantal that once aflibted the republican party that may not be over. in a way that's freaking some people out. just as the jeb bush for president campaign has started to roll out reformed president george w. bush as a key element of the jeb bush for president

campaign, george w. bush has been raising funds for jeb all along, he's been making statements of support for his brother all along, but now they're at the point in the campaign where they're actually have been jeb bush and george w. bush do joint political appearances for the first time as the bush family coalesces around the campaign to try to rescue it. just as the bush family and the jeb bush campaign and the republican establishment more broadly is banking on former president george w. bush being sufficiently political rehabilitated in the public eye, so much so he could potentially be a plus and not a minus for his brother's presidential campaign. just as that is happening, one of the great unresolved scandals of george w. bush's public life's just been acted out on film by robert redford, kate bland chet, elisabeth moss, topher grace, should i go on? and they big movie is freaking

out not just the players involved in that old scandal to the point where one broadcast network is turn down -- they don't watch the ads for that movie on their air. it's not just freaking people out connected to the scandal, but freaking people out who have anything to do with this story. here it goes. one of the interesting and new things about the last presidential race we had in 2012 is it was the first election since vietnam in which neither major party candidate had any military service at all, neither barack obama nor mitt romney ever served in the military. that was the first election like that since vietnam, but that's likely to be the similar dynamic this year. on the other size, the only way the republicans would pick someone who served is jim gilmore or lindsey graham, who

is making a real go of it and will not quit the race, but he is roughly if you're rounding, at 0% in the polls. he did spend last night prepping, but getting drunk in front of a whole bunch of reporters in a bar in boulder, colorado. but in all previous elections before 2012, the military service record of one or more of the candidates came up as an issue. not just as an issue as to whether or not it was a good qualifications for that candidate. since vietnam, the military service of various candidates in every election since that war has been an issue about which there has been some political discussion or some controversy. it happens in every single election. take, for example, the race in 1988. that race was then george h.w. bush to succeed ronald reagan.

george h.w. bush had a heroic, storied career, he went through some of the horrors of world war ii, and served with indistinction. vice president bush picked as his running mate dan quayle. in that 1988 race, i think it's kind of forgotten now, but the bush/quayle got criticism that during vietnam, young dan quayle did not serve. instead he got himself a coveted position in the indiana national guard, which had the effect basically of insulating him from any real threat of being sent over to the fight. that apparently stung the bush/quayle campaign enough that they decided to hit back on that exact issue, so they sent the campaign cochairman out on to tv in august of that year to say that actually dan quayle was not the scandal. the real national guard scandal from the vietnam era was on the

democratic ticket. that was michael dukakis, his running mate was lloyd bentsen, and they alleged that bentsen had done something terrible, he had pulled strings to get his own son, lloyd bentsen iii into the texas air national guard, so that lloyd bentsen's son could avoid serving. that was the counter punch from the bush/quayle campaign after the questions were raised about dan quayle avoiding service in vietnam. that counter punch ended up going horribly wrong when it turned out one of the people who lloyd bentsen's son served alongside in the texas air national guard while busy not going to vietnam, one of the other people in that unit was vice president bush's son george w. same unit. he also somehow miraculously found himself with a coveted spot in the air national guard unit in texas along with the

sons of other prominent families, rather than in a jungle in southeast asia. in that campaign, despite all that back and forth and lots more besides, ultimately poppy bush and dan quayle won that election. they lost the next one to bill clinton who his own controversies around his own decisions around the vietnam service or lack thereof. bill clinton went on to serve as two terms for president. by the time the republican party was ready to take the white house back again, the republican candidate was the next time around the aforementioned george w. bush, poppy bush's son. the story of his service, how he gatt that spot, what was the character of his service once he was in the air national guard. that issue simmered as sort of an intriguing back burner biographical/political story through out his first effort to

become president and after 9/11, the start of the iraq war, democrats picked john kerry to run against george w. bush in 2004. when republicans and conservative groups in 2004 decided to attack john kerry that year on the basis of his war record, claiming that john kerry didn't deserve his medals, he had somehow faked his apparent heroism in vietnam, once that happened, it was bound to be next that george w. bush's contrasting experience from a that time period when he was serving under somewhat mistier yaw circumstances in what was called the champagne unit of the texas air national guard, after the whole swiftboating thing it was bound to happen this aspect of george w. bush's life would become focus and a lot of aggressive reporting in that election in 2004. >> now president bush's own

record of service in the national guard is tonight once again under a microscope. some have requested whether a young george bush failed to report for a time. >> the key question whether then lieutenant bush showed up for required duty between may of 1972 and may of 1973. that's when political opponents like the democratic party chairman terry mcauliffe accuse the president of being, quote, awol. the white house has never been able to produce a fellow guardman. and while there's record showing he served, his superiors don't recall him showing up. >> he owes america an explanation of whether or not he showed up for duty in the national guard. they should prove it. >> late this afternoon word that some of president bush's missing military service have been

found. >> he received no pay for the months of july, august and september 1972. >> today a "boston globe" investigation found more gaps in george bush's service. in boston in 1973 when he promised to meet hi commitment while attending harvard business school. that proves the son of a prominent politician got special treatment. >> in 1988 during the debate over dan quayle's guard duty, bush was asked if someone made calls for him. >> if you want to go into the national guard, sometimes people made call. they probably should have called up the national guard, maybe we would have done better. >> he defended his service. >> i put in my time, proudly so. >> today the white house responded to democratic criticism. >> he met his obligation. we don't great with "the boston globe's" story. >> also the guard 178 in system system, the without last night

released 17 pages of newly found documents to prove he did show up for duty there at least eight times. newly found documents. this was a major story in the 2004 campaign. that was a bunch of different news stories. on for months and months and months in the 2004 campaign, lots of different news organization coming at it from lots of different angles were all trying to tease apart of different threads of the mysterious time in george bush's life, as groups were trying to dismantle john kerry. they were going after john kerry as if there was also some dishonorable or something to embarrassed about. on the 0erd side of the aisle there were intriguing and unanswered question. did he get into the guard unit? did he eventually get saved

because he dad was a congressman and his grandpa was a senator. once he got into the coveted national guard unit, did he get a coveted job as a pilot? that was a hard job to get. he didn't get good scores on the aptitude test. how did he get the pilot gig? has he served his time in the national guard, and got a transfer at one point to the alabama guard so he would work on a political campaign in alabama. did he meet his obligations? did he meet his obligations when in texas? all the other candidates with considerable military service records have just released all their records, and the press at least has had those records to go by. with george w. bush there were really lots of gaps in his record, lots of things that were missing, lots of stories that just didn't have clear answers to them. there was a lot for the press to chew on. in the campaign the press really

did chew on this for months. the papers did. the tv news organizations did. this was a major journalistic ever. the earliest wujz from that clip just from our archives, the earliest were february of 2004. the last one i showed was from september of 2004. this was going on all year long. in fact the last story i showed you was specifically from september 8th, 2004. that last clip with andrea mitchell reporting on the new reporting from "the boston globe" and newly found documents, september 8th, 2004, nbc nightly news, september 8th. nightly news airs at 6:30 p.m. that night, september 8th, 2004, 90 minutes after that nightly newscast, another network aired their own original story on that subject that night. and it was just one in a series of stories, right? they added their own original story to the mounting people of

aggressive reporting on this sudden that so many news agencies were so interested in at the time. after that nightly news broadcast we just showed many from 6:30, at 8:00 that night, september 8th, 2004, cbs aired a story on "60 minutes 2" basically the version of "60 minutes that aired on wednesday night instead of sunday night. they ran their own story on george w. bush's mel tear service during vietnam, and in the misdemeanor st. of this mounting and widening tide of journalistic interest in this part of george w. bush's past, even that night the white house still producing what had from the '70s from george w. bush's military reports documents they hadn't found before, they were still fending them last night. in the crest of this wave of

journalistic interest. when cbs ran its story that night on september 8th, 2004, that ended it. that ended all of it. it's like the story his a spewing volcano of scandal and political consequence, unanswered questions, intrigue, murky implications, simmering for years, boiling for months, this volcano had been spewing throughout the 2004 campaign, and then that "60 minutes" peet aired that night. it was like somebody stuck a cork in the volcano. it's all over, it came to a screeching halt. instantly without one report, that story changed from jush's vietnam era military service and how he got into the air national guard and whether he showed up and what happened to all his missing records. that was all swept out. in its place, the whole story became fonts and type writers and cbs. >> now to the political storm over a cbs news report wednesday

night that contained documents that raised new questions about president bush's service in the texas air national guard. the documents themselves are the story tonight. the questions is, are they fake or real? >> are the new documents real? one computer website says the type style is too modern to have used more than 30 years ago. >> the address of the fighter squadron is perfectly centered, difficult for a typist. the use of curly apostrophes and reduced size "th" both markings rarely available on early type writers. >> an expert asked to examine the memos said she expressed serious misgivings about the validity of the documents, but said she is was ignored by cbs producer who went on to other experts. >> tonight white house officials who maintain the president fulfilled duties cannot say where the documents are fake, but they argue the suspicions

alone have undermined is the importance. >> the suspicions alone have undermined the importance. whatever those documents are about doesn't matter anymore if we cast doubt on the documents. the scandal following that "60 minutes" segment, the scandal about fonts and the specific documents. that scandal about that broadcast, about that specific reporting on that specific part of that broader story, that ended the whole broader story. that scandal just supplanted months and months and months of reporting by lots of different organization about george w. bush's national guard service record. now all of a sudden 9 whole story wasn't about president bush, but about cbs. it was that backlash that ultimately ended the lonk and storied career of one of the giants of journalism, who will be with us here in a moment to talk about this. but the question that is cbs was addressing in that report, the

questions about george w. bush's time in the national guard, those questions really did just disappear in the uproar over cbs and its fonts and the documents that they used in their report. the overall story fell away into nothingness for a long time, not just past the presidential election that year, but for the rest of george w. bush's time in office. now there are three things happening related to that scandal which absolutely engulfed the news media in late 2004 right before the presidential election that year. now three things -- number one george w. bush is back as the rehabilitated hero of the republican party who's going to save his brother jeb's presidential campaign. number two is that this freaking movie just came out about it start robert redford and kacate blanche blanchett, telling the story again, for a load of people the first time they have heard it. three, what the scandal was

about, those documents. that issue of the realness or fakeness of those documents? that issue was never actually resolved. a bunch of people lost their jobs over it, including ultimately dan rather at cbs, but nobody was ever able to say with authority whether or not the documents used by cbs in that report bettwere actually f. that continues to be unresolved. the resurfacing of that story, that is coming at a pivotal time in u.s. politics, and it's freaking a lot of people out. we have just the right personal to talk about it all. dan rather joins us next. vo: with beyond natural dry pet food, you can trust our labels.

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we've got a big show tonight with two very big guests. first legendary news sank orr dan rather, who is live. next he's going to sit with me, and then martin o'malley is here. lots coming up tonight.

we'll be right back. and can you explain why you recommend synthetic over cedar? "super food?" is that a real thing? it's a great school, but is it the right one for her? is this really any better than the one you got last year? if we consolidate suppliers, what's the savings there? so should we go with the 467 horsepower? ...or is a 423 enough?

good question. you ask a lot of good questions... i think we should move you into our new fund. sure... ok. but are you asking enough about how your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab. a mistake. cbs news now admits it was wrong on a report about documents of george w. bush's service. a man who provided them admits he misled. >> today dan rather and the news division acknowledge they cannot prove the authenticity of documents they used in a story about george w. bush's national guard service. >> all of that is now back. with help from some very attractive actors like robert

redford and indicacate blanchet >> what are the chances you have something alcoholic in there? >> better than average. >> how long have we known each other? >> oh, jesus, is it that bad? >> they're going to start an investigation and cbs wants to appoint an independent panel to take a look at how the story is put together. and i'm going to announce it. tomorrow. i'm going to apologize for the story on air. >> andrew asked you to apologize? >> he didn't ask. >> dan, that's surrender -- >> ever since burkett changed the story, andrew feels cbs

can't stand the risk. >> he knew even before we went down there before we got bucket on tape. >> you have to stop worrying about me. >> that's not going to happen. >> you've got to protect yourself now. we all do. thank you for the drink. that was a lawyer's name on a business card that he threw down on the table there. that was cate blanchett as producer mary mapes. >> and joining us is the real dan rather, president of news and guts media. thank you so much for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> i'm sorry to pander to you there with the robert redford crack. but i don't know what you say to someone who had robert redford portray them. you did not make this movie.

>> no. >> but you have to ask, do you agree with the basic case of the movie? >> i do. the movie is accurate, based on a book that nair where mapes did. i was pleasantly surprised that hollywood doesn't take some of the liberties that it sometimes take. it's accurate. but keep in mind, rachel, this has been 11 years ago. for someone who may be sitting in a living room tonight and asking this happened 11 years ago, why should we -- i think it resonates today. when people say what's happened to the news, what this film is about, more than it's about mary mapes, me or even former president bush, it's about what's happened to the news, why it happened, how it happened, and why everybody should care about it. >> i think that movie could have just easily been called "courage" not only you using that as a motif in the film, but because of the some criticism you raised since this all

happened. you had a legal battle with cbs over this and other matters. >> i did. >> in which you basically said that cbs broke protocol for a news organization in not defending your reporting, and not having the instinct to stick up for you. is that still how you feel? >> yes, not only how i feel. it's what the facts dictate. look, make no mistake, you know, i had 44 years at cbs news, and it didn't end all that well, but i had 44 great years, 24 years in the anchor chair. it's so far behind me now. i'm doing my own work, working full time u. until this movie got made, frankly i didn't think about it very often, but the great tradition of cbs news, what made it a great news institution and a national treasure, which i think in some ways it still is, but it had a long history, the whole history was the corporate entity separated itself from the news division, said there was a firewall.

for the first time in history they didn't back their reporters on a story that was true. the reason this movie is called "truth" there's no question, it's a fact that the basics of the story was correct. it was true. >> the stories of the -- the allegations in the story about the president's -- >> what are facts -- one, through political influence, a younger george w. bush at a younger time in his life, which he himself said was a troubled time, political influence, basically his father's influence got him into the national guard. fact two -- once he got into the national guard and performed fairly well, and by some accounts fairly well, he disappeared for a year. nobody disappears in the u.s. military without some consequence, but he did. and then interesting enough, the records of that period were destroyed. those two things are true. that's what the story was about. those who didn't like the story -- we were in the middle of a presidential campaign, they

couldn't attack the facts of the story, the truth of the story, so they shifted, very successfully, giving credit in that's the word, el they shifted the argument, not whether the story was true, but whether in the process of putting the story together whether we had made any mistakes. we made mistakes in the process, but the mistakes we made in the process don't deter the fact -- don't erase the fact that the story itself was true. >> but the scandal around the reporting problems in the story had the political effect of exhausting the entire issue. >> right. for example, those who didn't like the story for political or ideological, they attacked the documents as forgeries. in fact "wall street journal" recently as discussed in the film said that the documents were exposed to be forgeries. that is untrue. here we are 11 years later, and nobody is -- has proven

yesterday that the documents were forgeries. it's a fair argument to argue, well, dan, you and cbs didn't prove the documents were what they were. i think we did, but that's open to argument. but again back to the point, see, having this kind of discussion, this is exactly what they wanted. they wanted to discuss documents. there's no question, saying, the two basket facts were true, and a lot of people who were in that unit, so-called champagne unit of the air national guard, which was put together for the specific purpose of making sure that people who joined that unit wouldn't have to go to vietnam. and so the story is true. but i recognize, a lot of people this far back would say it was a scandal, something wrong with it. the basic truth of the story there was nothing wrong with. "the boston globe" had put it in print as early as 2000, but nobody in television had ever touched the story until about the time we got to it. as you pointed out, nbc did 90

minutes before we were on the air, did a version of the story. >> there was a lot of different threats of that story being pulled. >> i think it's important to also node up to and including this time former president bush has never denied the basic facts of the story, nor has anybody in his family or in a close circle around him. they say well, the documents were forged, that's game, set and match, but up to and including now, they have never denied the story, because the story was true, it was truth. >> that characterization by you in your own term and in this new film is causing a lot of political -- it may have been 11 years ago, but it is today. dan rather, president now of news and guts media, thank you for talking through this with me. i know it take trust to talk about this issue. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. we should know that cbs news has maintained all the along they stand by the results of their independent review into

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so he said he would marry carly fiorina. a republican candidate for president of the united states played a game, some of you might have heard of, a name i can't name on tv, even on cable. the gist of the game is you have to pick among three people who you would date, who you would marry and who you would make disappear forever. in this case the candidate was playing among carly fiorina, sarah palin and hillary clinton. his choice he would date sarah palin, maybe disappear secretary clinton, and he would marry republican presidential candidate carly fiorina, quote, because she's rich. that was a charming window into the mind of.senior senator from south carolina, senator lindsey graham. last night he was out and about late night, kind of partying, and playing that game about women in politics.

he at one point climbed behind the bar in a drinking establishment. he did shots with reporters. he poured rounds of whiskey. he very poorly poured glasses of beer that were just whole glasses full of foam. at one point he raised a toast to donald trump and ask that was lindsey graham's debate prep tonight. tonight he took his seat at the kids' table at the third republican presidential debate. >> without the sacrifice of the veteran, all of our hopes and dreams are at risk. just a few days ago hillary clinton said the problems with the v.a. are being exaggerated by republicans. they are not. they are real. >> what senator graham was talking about right there tonight is something that happened on this show last week, had secretary hillary clinton here, i asked her about this newby fashionable idea that the

va should abolished, it should be privatized. here was her response. >> do you have any new ideas to fix it? for some reason this can't get fixed fast enough. >> yeah, and i don't understand that. you know, i don't understand why we have such a problem, because there have been a number of surveys of veterans, and overall veterans who do get treated are satisfied with their treatment. >> much more so than people in the regular system. >> nobody would believe that from the coverage that you see and the constant berating of the va that comes from the republican in parts because of the this -- >> but in part because there has been real scandal. >> there has been, but not as widespread as it has been made out to be. i think some of the reforms that were adopted last year should be given a chance to work. if there is a waiting period that is just unacceptable, you

should be able to in a sense get the opportunity to go out, have a private physician take care of you, but at the cost of the v.a., but i think it goes deeper than that. if you look at not only v.a. health care, but the backlog on disability determinations, there's something not working within the bureaucracy. >> secretary clinton went on to talk about some of her ideas, and the believe that the v.a. is unfunded, but since that answer, jeb bush, now lindsey graham, also senator mccain have cryized her as under playing the problems. since that interview and since that criticism. the clinton campaign has come out to clarify her comments saying that wait time and mismanagement in the v.a. are, quote, systemic a and that her

comments on this show were misinterpreted. today senator john mccain with a conference call with reporters in which he tolder that senator sanders has a better record than secretary clinton does. that create add flurry of headlines like these, bernie sanders, not hillary clinton has report of advocacy. bernie is better than hillary on veterans. here's the thing, though. senator bernie sanders has essentially said basically the same thing as secretary clinton has said about the v.a., and he has also said it right here on this show. >> i remember talking to you about the scandal in the v.a. of wait times and v.a. facilities lying about wait times while that scandal was emerging. >> yeah. >> you were supportive of general shin secci staying?

>> the answer is -- i think mcdonald is trying his very best to deal with an enormous bureaucracy that is out there. one of the only thing, rachel which i learned as chairman is that it is -- the v.a. has 152 medical centers, and some 800 community-based outreach clinics. every day there's a problem, but every day there's a problem in every medical facilities in america. if all you talk about are the negative things, then people get a certain view. when i was chairman i had all of the major veterans organization in front of me. i said, tell me, when they get into the v.a., do you think of quality of care is good, and they said it is good to excellent. that is how most receipt advance feel. >> there you have it, senator bernie sanders basically saying the same thing as the comments

from hillary clinton that conservatives have tried to turn into a scandal for her, and tried to during into a wedge between the presidential field. we have heard now on this show from hillary clinton and bernie sanders on this very touchy subject. we have not, however, heard on this issue from the democratic candidate who is my next guest here. well, right now you can get 15 gigs for the price of 10. that's 5 extra gigs for the same price. so five more gigs for the same price?

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a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? their sniping and bickering back and forth about who's shouting and who's not, who is sexist and who is not are distracting from the life-and-death part of this issue. there's not any other planet that allows citizens to die deaths because of guns, as we do. we need to -- the sort of bickering they're engaged in is part of the reason you have so much dysfunction in washington.

>> the entire republican presidential field is in boulder, colorado, but martin o'malley crashed it tonight. he chose to be there to talk about the issues of guns specifically and to go after his democratic opponents on the issues of guns. joining us is democratic presidential candidate, former governor martin o'malley. great to have you here. thank you so much. >> thank you. i'm sorry i'm not in studio. we're here in colorado, they have beautiful outdoors, and i've been searching for the elusive species called a republican candidate with the spine to take on the in. ra. we'll see if we can find one here tonight. it might emerge, like bigfoot. >> why make the case for gun reform at the site of the republican debate, the place where there isn't a consensus is in the democratic party. the republican party is 100% unified, totally all against

reform all down the line. >> because before colorado became the site for tonight's republican debate, colorado was the site of columbine, and colorado was the site of aurora. there were a lot of moms and dads who lost sons and daughters in those massacres, and they were this to be an issue that we address as a people. our country works beth when both parties are actually adding the pressen issues facing our country. so far there hadn't been a direct question asked about gun safety. so i wanted to be out here with the moms against gun violence to try to elevate this issue and to -- that's how you bring people together and forge a consensus. we're not going to solve our problems if we don't talk about them and address them. >> you've been 9 the gold standard. you've also been through the

battled over this governmentally, in terms of passing gun reform in your state. what did you learn in passing such aggressive gun reform in your state in terms of how to beat the nra when them and all of their forces are against you? >> what i learned was this -- that the vast majority of us have come to understand that we've got a problem as a nation. that there are far too many americans that are dying because of guns and gun violence. we kept inviting people to come back to the table of democracy, if you will, and offer your solutions. after the slaughter of the innocent in new town, connecticut, i made a top priority of my administration to pass comprehensive gun safety legislation, and it included elements like universal background checks, fingerprinting licenses in order to purchase new guns and also banning combat assault weapons. yes, we also addressed mental health issues and better sharing of information. and we also addressed school

perimeter safety. but we were constantly bringing back people to that belief we share and the dignity and the importance of every human life. and we found that by focusing on the importance of saving lives, that that's what allowed us to pierce through. we also acknowledged that there are people with hunting traditions. not a single hunter was ever denied a hunting permit or told that they couldn't reregister or renew their permit. in fact, i encourage hunters to keep hunting traditions alive in our state. so that's what we did. there's no way to kind of pole vault over the fear and over the division and over the lives and the mistruths of the nra and the truth, i found, can actually defend herself. but we have to have the guts and the courage to state it, especially on this issue. when we did, we were able to bring forward a lot of people in my own party who initially started off as not wanting to pass this legislation. but we had to.

and that's what we've got to do as a nation. the vast majority of us as a people actually believe we need to take action and not just have bickering and debates. secretary clinton and bernie sander, instead of replaying the old cultural wars of the past, shouting -- who's shouting, who's sexist, who's not. i think we need to focus on the elements that can actually save lives and keep guns out of the hands of psychopaths and mass murderers. >> let me ask you, sir, about another question where conservatives have lobbied a lot of criticism at secretary clinton and some at senator sanders. veteran groups have criticized them both for playing down problems at the v.a. on the other hand, conservative, including a big bunch of republican candidates this year have also said problems at the v.a. mean we should abolish the v.a. do you think the v.a. needs defending? or is it defending it just excusing and apologizing for the problems there?

>> the v.a. needs improving. you could say that about any number of departments in our federal government. unlike senator sander, and unlike secretary clinton, i've actually run big governments. i've actually been responsible for often times very, very dysfunctional big departments. so i do know something about process backlog. i knew -- i had known something about using modern technology so that people don't slip through the cracks and fall through the cracks. this is what i see happening in the v.a. we by the way in my state made full employment a strategic goal of my administration for the last year and a half. not because we were doing well but because we were losing too many of our veterans when they came home and they were falling through the cracks. what i see has happened in our veterans administration is this -- there is a sort of double squeeze that's gong on right now with aging veterans who are using the va more and a whole lot of veterans coming home from iraq and afghanistan,

from a long tour of duty, with really critical needs. but the v.a. has not updated the sort of feedback loops, the linkages by way of technology so you don't have a separate database over in the department of defense and a brand-new database in the v.a. without the openness and transparency to actually tell the v.a..ed administrators and managers that hey, we have a growing back dog, especially for veterans who need help because they have a cancer diagnosis. we don't have enough doctors that can actually fill this need, flfr we need to do some emergency vouchers or what have you so that people can get the medical help they need. and these are all things that i've learned to do and other department enagencies, in our own state and b corrections with a unified case management system, we had the bors backlog actually for processing building permits. we went from the worst to the best. wait times.

these are things you learn to do as an executive. we need a new way of governing, a new way of management that embraces openness and transparency, doesn't try to hide waiting lists, and does things in ways so that citizens can actually get customer service numbers or patient service numbers and so that we em bra is this new technology to hoold everybody accountable for serving individuals better. that's something i've learned how to do. that's something secretary clinton and senator sanders, god bless them, have never had any experience at. >> democratic presidential candidate, former governor of maryland, martin o'malley. thank you so much for being here, sir, and i will see you next week in south carolina. >> yeah, looking forward to it. thanks a lot. >> be right back. thank you, sir.

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a scandal of me running off to south carolina with martin o'malley next week is true. next week, all three democratic presidential candidates are going to be joining me in south carolina at the democratic candidates forum at winthrop university in rockhill, south carolina, friday november 6, next friday here on msnbc at 8:00 eastern. with my diabetes. i do my best to manage. but it's hard to keep up with it. your body and your diabetes change over time. your treatment plan may too. know your options. once-daily toujeo® is a long-acting insulin from the makers of lantus®. it releases slowly to provide consistent insulin levels for a full 24 hours. toujeo® also provides proven full 24-hour blood sugar control and significant a1c reduction.

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so wi got a job!ews? i'll be programming at ge. oh i got a job too, at zazzies. (friends gasp) the app where you put fruit hats on animals? i love that! guys, i'll be writing code that helps machines communicate. (interrupting) i just zazzied you. (phone vibrates) look at it! (friends giggle) i can do dogs, hamsters, guinea pigs... you name it. i'm going to transform the way the world works. (proudly) i programmed that hat. and i can do casaba melons. i'll be helping turbines power cities. i put a turbine on a cat. (friends ooh and ahh) i can make hospitals run more efficiently... this isn't a competition! running against hillary. let's play "hardball." i'm chris matthews in the spin room at university of colorado in boulder where fight night li