manager. and former adviser to the jeb campaign has said that's not true. bush campaign has a real problem with messaging from candidates but messaging against whom they see as the biggest opponent. >> good to be here. ten point under dogs against duke. >> better not to know that. >> jeb bush will be my exclusive guest. we will be back monday. steve kornacki picks up my coverage here on msnbc right now. right now on msnbc, debating the debate. several republican presidential campaign staffers prepare toog meet to discuss format changes to the debate structure. boots on the ground for the first time the white house is deploying special operations forces to syria to fight isis.

and marco rubio comes under new scrutiny including from the editorial board that said he should get out of the senate. we start with the latest gop cause debating the debate. reince priebus, the chairman of the republican national committee announced he is suspending nbc news from participating in a republican debate scheduled for february in a letter addressed to nbc news writing while debates are meant to include tough questions and contrast candidates' visions cnbc's moderators engaged in a series of gotcha questions, petty and mean spirited in tone. nbc responded to the suspension in a statement saying, quote, this is a disappointing development, however along with our debate broadcast partners at telemundo we will work in good faith to resolve this matter wat republican party. this network and cnbc share the

same parent company. this isn't the first that we are hearing from reince priebus about his disdain. here is what he had to say on sean hannity's show. >> i can't tell you how pissed off i am. obviously we had assurances that it was straight up finance which is what they do every day and what was delivered was nothing but a crap sandwich. >> this comes after several gop candidates criticized cnbc which posted wednesday's debate and wednesday night cnbc responded by saying people who want to be president of the united states should be able to answer tough questions. some republicans haven't liked any of the debates so far. here is what donald trump had to say after the fox news debate back in august. >> i thought the questions were unfair but i can live with it. it is probably you are number one in the polls.

even the other candidates got off stage and said it's amazing. >> one thing i did complain about, three hours is too much for a debate. it's a long time to be debating but worse for people who have to sit home. if this were a two-hour debate st would have been great. three hours is unacceptable. >> now the gop campaigns are prepare toog meet this sunday in washington to discuss changes to the format for future debates. the rnc is so far not invited to the meeting. joining me now e.j. deal and on the phone nick confessore. we have heard complaints at v varying volumes. they are getting together sunday. what do you think the future is for debates in this republican

primary season? >> some of the candidates would probably wish they could call them off entirely. i think jeb bush desperately wants a re-do of this last one. the first thing i think that should be said is i'm a journalist. i defend all reporters who ask tough questions whether megyn kelly or john harwood. i hope nbc and everybody else doesn't get intimidated by an attack like this. you can debate about how it went. i happen to like boring debates on policy or about taxes and budgets and trade and all that sort of thing, but a lot of the questions that were posed were from attacks these candidates have made on each other. it wasn't like these questions were invented out of thin air. and so i hope as the discussions go forward journalists hold the

line and say there have to be tough questions. >> i'm curious what you think will come out of this meeting on sunday with news that all or most of the republican candidates will be represented at this meeting. when you look at complaints out there what kind of format change do you think could come out of this? >> it is hard to imagine. this was cnbc. this wasn't some liberal talk radio network. unless the candidates want to be their own moderators or have reince priebus be the moderator it is hard to know what they have in mind to make it more fair. i did not hear a problematic debate. i heard ton ality issues maybe in some questions. the substance was there. it was very substantive for the most part. >> what we know so far ben carson who put this together in

the first place said i want all the candidates and campaigns to sit down. he talked about wanting no more gotcha questions. he talked about expanding the roster of candidates giving two, three minutes to answer and address a specific policy area. those are some things being considered. bobby jindal, lindsey graham look toog ging to get on the ma stage. another from ted cruz. >> in my view republican primary debates ought to be moderated by people who would vote in a primary. how about a debate moderated by sean hannity and mark lavin and rush limbaugh? >> i think we think of debates and moderators and think the main goal is to inform as many voters as possible.

when we are talking about a primary season we are talking about one political party that has to choose a candidate. isn't there a case to be made that maybe that is a debate within a political party and within a primary should be moderated by members of the party? >> that would be a debate as ted cruz says. if the republicans go down the ted cruz route i think that would be a terrible mistake for them because while these debates are primarily for voters who vote in a republican primary the debates are also an argument by the party collectively for positions on issues. it's not only republicans watching the debates and not only republicans served by these networks. i think if they had very conservative or right wing hosts asking, if you will, conservative right wing questions i think the republicans would fall even more into their own world and lose

the chance to send the message to other voters whom the party, whoever the party nominates is going to need in november. so i think the republicans would be making a big mistake if that is the path they take. >> one thing interesting to me is the push for this came initially from ben carson. donald trump has been most consistently vosieveerous. ben carson after each debate has been moving up. jeb bush is the guy who has taken the biggest hit from the debates and is the most reluctant to participate. what do you make that it is ben carson pushing given the success he has had in the debates? >> bush is joining or sending representatives to the meeting on sunday so all the candidates will pretty much be there. i think ben carson took one on the chin and asked a tough question about his economic plan and whether or not it added up.

so i think he was feeling wounded and he felt like he was treated badly there. on the other hand my opinion it was a very fair question. i think voters should want to know about his economic plan and have journalists press him on it if the numbers add up. >> there were a lot of things said in the debate that weren't true. and if journalists ought to be sitting there with the right to question candidates on the vurasity of what they are saying that's not gotcha that is saying you said this but why it is true and take it from there so you have a totally softball debate you miss the opportunity to get more truth out there. >> i guess we should point out that some of the democratic kaeds except hillary clinton have been clamoring for more debates of a reform. hillary clinton probably has the most clout in that discussion. she doesn't seem as interested

as ben carson is in re-examining the rules. appreciate the time. and still ahead major developments out of the jeb bush campaign. a top campaign official is leaving. what this means for his struggling campaign plus new accusations of sexism against bernie sanders and his staff from hillary clinton supporters. what is behind those allegations? a shift in strategy, the white house sending specialops forces on the ground in syria to fight the war against the islamic state. well, right now you can get 15 gigs for the price of 10. that's 5 extra gigs for the same price. so five more gigs for the same price? yea, allow me to demonstrate. you like that pretzel? yea. 50% more data for the same price.

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hillary clinton laid out her criminal justice plan in atlanta today activists jump in to interrupt her. she responded with this. >> of the feelings that come forward and yes they do. yes, they do. yes, they do. and i'm going to talk a lot about that in a minute. i appreciate their passion but i'm sorry they didn't listen because some of what they are demanding i am offering and intend to fight for as president. >> clinton shared the stage with some stars and legends. congressman john lewis introduced her.

grammy winner monica spoke and kelly price sang. clinton wants to eliminate the differences in sentencing for arrests involving crack versus cocaine and wants to equip every police department with body cameras and wants to remove questions about criminal history from initial job applications and says a connecting theme is needed to reach all of those goals. >> it may be a bit unusual for somebody running for president to say we need more love and kindness. that is exactly what i believe. we need to be too busy to hate and too loving to ignore, too loving ever to turn our backs on each other and our country. >> msnbc national correspondent joins me live from atlanta. with me here in new york. joy, you are down there. i'm thinking back to a few months ago bernie sanders had this sort of controversial rally. he was interrupted by black

lives matters and a lot of dispute over how he handled that. how did hillary clinton handle this today? >> reporter: one of the big differences was that in this case here at clark atlanta university the crowd was very much with hillary clinton and sort of they were the ones that kind of handled the protests. there were two separate protests by this group called auc shut it down. so the first disruption started the crowd started chanting let her speak. then a second disruption by the same group about ten minutes into the speech. the crowd again drowned them out. she, i think, responded by accepting the idea of the protest. i was told the clinton campaign did not want them ejected. they were walked out. john lewis as well as andrew

young spoke with the group as did usher, the r&b star who is an atlanta resident. he talked to the group and after that they left. >> i'm looking at hillary clinton's platform now on criminal justice issues. there is a difference on death penalty. a lot of similarities in terms of what they are calling for and responding to the movement. so pivotal what strikes me and we saw this in the new nbc poll today is the huge advantage that hillary clinton enjoys among black voters. among latinoes it is 10, 12. what explains that when they are so similar on the issues? >> for one, both bernie sanders and former governor martin o'malley have not gotten traction among black voters. there is an historic

relationship between hillary clinton and her husband. that is a potential issue for o'malley and sanders to come after her on. o'malley ended death penalty when he was governor of maryland. there is a racial divide in support for the death penalty. more black americans oppose it versus white americans. we are at a 40-year low in terms of support for the death penalty. there is a ratio who favor the death penalty. in terms of black americans and white americans many more black americans oppose the death penalty versus white americans. that could be a potential issue that could separate the candidates in terms of criminal justice policy overall. >> i want to play a clip here and get you to respond to it. you talk about the history of black voters and the clintons. bill clinton was president when

the crime bill was signed. >> the crime bill which was a result of a lot of reaction particularly from poor communities, communities of color to the horrific crime rates of the 1980s. there was just a consensus across every community that something had to be done. that went too far. first speech i gave in this campaign was about mass incarceration and about reform of policing practicing. >> it really is striking to think that hillary clinton, part of her platform is essentially undoing part of her husband's legacy. >> reporter: interestingly enough if you look at some of the protests against the crime bill at the time by civil rights groups like naacp, a lot of the things that they wanted done instead, a lot of the challenges that they made to hillary

clinton not just then but during the late 1990s and early 2000s are now in her platform. she has moved left and moved in the direction of the very people who were protesting her husband's administration and who were calling on her when she was also running as a new democrat tough on crime senator but siding with those who were protesting over the death of a young man in new york who was killed by police officers. that was the time when hillary clinton was sort of pushing at that time a little towards the idea of reform. you are seeing hillary clinton come full circle. today at clark atlanta she said i'm not running for a third term for bill clinton or barack obama. she said she is running for her own first term. i think you are seeing hillary clinton thread the needle and repudiate a lot of the bill clinton era on crime. >> it is so interesting. you mentioned before the history between the black community and the clintons.

when bill clinton ran for president he won overwhelming black support. when his legacy is complicated with something like the crime bill in 1994 where does that bond come from? >> it is interesting because in the '92 campaign there is the soldier moment where he had to disavow his relationship and signal to white voters that he was going to be tough -- >> black voters remember south carolina in 2007-2008 democratic primary and language bill clinton used. >> i'm trying to figure out how -- she could have a 60-point lead. >> one is because black voters understand their interests and vote their interests even though many black voters may be socially conservative they vote democratic because they see that

as best interest of the group. i think it is trying to understand who is the likely winner here. as joy has pointed out former secretary of state and senator clinton has moved left on several issues around racial justice. it makes sense why black voters say not only do we support her platform but she is likely to win. >> pragmatism sometimes does win. >> reporter: i was going to say i think one of the things the campaign has to recognize and one thing they are starting with a push for black voters is that it is not a matter of percentages. the campaign has to worry about enthusiasm and things like 2008 particularly for younger african-americans who don't remember the '90s, they need to push against an apathy among black voters. they need not just percentage but volume. >> not just primary strategy but general election strategy, too. thank you for joining us. coming up, a shift in u.s. policy towards syria.

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personnel to offer them some advice and assistance on the ground as they take the fight to isil. so this is an intensification of a strategy the president announced more than a year ago. >> along with fewer than 50 specialops forces on the ground u.s. will increase the number of aircraft at an air base in turkey and create a rapid reaction force in iraq. colonel jack jacobs is a medal of honor recipient and military analyst. thanks for take ag few minutes. the general concern, overwhelming concern is it is fewer than 50 now but this is the first domino to fall. next thing you know there is a major commitment here. is there a risk of that? >> i think this is the first of several probably. we are going to incrementalize this. i think the foot print is not

going to be large. i think josh earnest telegraphed that when he suggested there may be more deployments like this. the real issue is what this is all about. it's mostly a response to both the iranians and the russians sort of ganging up on our turf. the heavy presence there, they will be there for quite sometime. the president probably would like to withdraw everybody yesterday. really can't do that in the face of all of this. what he should have done was got up and said we made a big mistake when we said that we were never going to have any boots on the ground in syria. the fact of the matter is the situation has changed. because the situation has changed we are doing this now. that would have been a lot easier. the white house would have suffered far less from all

fronts had they come clean and said we screwed up when we said we weren't putting people on the ground. >> it is getting crowded with russia moving in. this could be the first of several deployments. the risk there, the potential for the u.s. and russia to be too close for comfort, what about that? >> they are already too close for comfort. the fact of the matter is that we are working to try to work out some sort of mote s aprend i. there is always danger that there will be some kind of clash. i don't think that is likely to happen. a lot of our people are not going to be there for a long period of time. they are going to come in and leave and come in again. always danger but i think probably nothing untoward is going to happen. >> thanks for the time tonight. and coming up brand new poll numbers on the republican race for president. who is up after wednesday's debate? who is in trouble?

we will have those for you on the other side of the break. ugly accusations on the democratic side. why some clinton allies are telling bernie sanders to fire his campaign manager. could marco rubio's strong debate performance hurt him in the run? rival campaigns are firing up the opposition research and it might not be pretty. part d prescriptions. at walgreens, we call that "carpe med diem." that's almost latin for "seize the day to get more out of life and medicare part d." from one-dollar copays on select plans... ...to now reward points on all prescriptions, walgreens has you covered. so drop by and seize the savings! walgreens. at the corner of happy and healthy.

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there he is jeb bush down to just 5%. one thing is clear wednesday night's debate did not help bush's already struggling campaign. we are learning that a long-time bush family aid working as jeb bush's chief operating officer has left the campaign. latest development in a tough week for jeb bush. joining me now is chief investigative reporter for politico. the promise coming out of that summit that the bush campaign held in houston last weekend was he's got this. you will see a new bush on wednesday night. now at the end of the week we see wednesday night was a disaster. there is still time until new hampshire. >> he is doing better in the

national polls. he is at 9% tied with marco rubio in third place. obviously that sfla is not good enough to win. at least he is in the game. more predisposed to him. it's a state that his father bet it all on successfully during his successful presidential run and in many ways jeb bush is clinging to this hope that the party of his father and to a lesser extent his brother that there is still some elements of it there in the republican base. so far the polls show it is a very different republican party, one that is thirsting for an outsider anti-establishment candidate that no matter how jeb bush positions himself he is not. >> marco rubio reminded him of this on wednesday. he has been talking about the john mccain example. we will see if that gives you traction. he spent 6 million without moving up much in the polls.

i'm curious looking at our new poll it showed republican voters think rubio had a strong night. they think cruz had a stronger night in the debate wednesday night. maybe all the attention on rubio. maybe cruz is one to watch here. >> it's helpful that there is all this attention on rubio and cruz. they are in two different lanes. rubio is in the lane that competes with jeb . cruz is in the lane that competes with ben carson and donald trump. the fact that there is this focus and they both got the boost from the debate maybe does go down to jeb bush's benefit because it allows them to take the path suggesting living off the land and kind of tricky to imagine that here we are talking about or it doesn't make sense and talking about a candidate who raised more than $100 million living off the land. clearly he built a campaign and

he built an infrastructure with expectation he would be the front runner and having to change a lot of things. >> you cover campaign financing. if they smell a loser these donors aren't ponying up the money. >> what he is reaching for, his greatest strength which is the bush name and bush dynasty and connections is his greatest weakness. especially in a year when we are looking at anti-establishment support buoying two candidates above the 50% mark. jeb bush touting reaching out for the bush network is not going to help. >> thanks for joining us. have a great weekend. >> be sure to watch meet the press this weekend. moderator chuck todd speaks exclusively with jeb bush. if it's sunday it's meet the press on your local nbc station. still ahead on our show, hillary clinton's allies calling on bernie sanders to fire his campaign manager. we'll tell you why. marco rubio got rave reviews

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clinton that all the shouting in the world is not going to do what i would hope all of us want and that is keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have those guns. >> clinton and her campaign thought sanders referring to comments as shouting was sexist. sanders says that wasn't his intention. his campaign manager made this comment. quote, she would make a great vice president. we are willing to consider her for vice president. we will give her serious consideration and interview her. that really struck a nerve. politico reporting today that clint allies are shouting sexism and calling on sanders to fire his campaign manager. joining me now. two different comments, bernie sanders at the debate and the campaign manager making these comments. >> when hillary talked about when women talk they think we

are shouting she delivered the line last friday. i have to say out of her entire speech that line got her a lot of applause, went viral on facebook. it was smart for her to call him out on that. was it that sexist, probably not? maybe like a -- >> sanders was -- that is a line he has used a lot the idea of all of the shouting in the world won't change this. she had the context of the debate where she went on the attack against him. it sounded like he was trying to pivot to say what he always says about guns not making a specific effort at her. >> people are very aware that hillary only woman running and on stage. women are used to being interrupt skpd told they are shouting or being too aggressive when they are just being assertive. i don't think it was that

sexist. i think when bernie sanders tried to correct that mistake is when he opened himself up to critique when the campaign manager made those condescending comments and look at who is advising bernie sanders it is mostly men. i think that was the real mistake for his campaign. >> let me ask you about the comments from his campaign manager. for context what are you saying for people who don't remember at the end of the 2008 primary season didn't really happen. she wasn't on the short list. that seems to be what he is referring to. do you agree with what liz said about the comments? >> agree that it is smart strategy for hillary to make this an issue and with you saying the thing about shouting on guns for years and years well before the presidential election. you can google it and see we have video on the website about that. he is trying to say there is common ground on guns which is hard to find in our culture

right now which he feels he has a line on coming out of vermont where there is a lot of hunters. i think he was pivoting to a stump speech point there. the campaign manager's comment was condescending and bernie sanders said so. this kind of thing does resonate with women because there is a lot that goes on. just as carly fiorina made that brilliant ad about donald trump's remarks about her face i think hillary has a lot of room to do something smart politically but i don't think sanders is a sexist pig. i i think it is better for women to see a debate where they try to outdo each other on policies to help women. they can do better standing up to teacher bashing. i would like to see that debate. i think this is just strategy. >> if you are having that debate

or just in general there is a gender gat th gender gap that exists. where is the opening? do you see an opening for bernie sanders to peel off some female support for hillary clinton. >> i think on substance. i think specifically on not just economic equality but the way he talks about that as being particularly a female issue. the pay gap and paid family leave are things he talks about a lut. i think it is probably a good idea to get some women on the campaign. i absolutely agree with that. i think talking substantially as opposed to ads that make you feel good but don't lineup with policy so much. >> one thing he is up against we talk about the common ground that does exist between clinton and sanders. we have never had a female president. she would be the first female president. that is a powerful thing to be

up against if you are bernie sanders. >> absolutely. it is a new thing. in 2008 it was interest toog see sexism being something that is not a weakness. it can be an advantage to hillary. that's why it is playing up these moments and very smartly doing so. to come back to what ruth was saying even seeing that it is not just the left taking advantage of this moment in our society where we are talking about women's rights and ready for those conversations, even carly fiorina in her first opening comment during the debate, the republican debate on wednesday made reference to the fact that the media says she didn't smile enough. that garnering a lot of laughter. i think we see hillary doing that but we see carly fiorina, as well. an accusation like this from hillary clinton from her campaign would play with a broad

audience. i heard a lot of people outside the democratic party listening to what hillary said and saying that is political correctness going crazy. >> ink i think hillary's campaign has done thinking of what works and changed tune. in 2008 mark penn advised not to run as first mama. she has a group that understand women's votes are significant. we will hear a lot of talk about women vote. this stuff really resonates. it's doing her good. >> thanks for joining us. and still ahead marco rubio in the spot light after his standout debate performance. can he stand the heat?

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all right. let's take a look at the results of today's bing post question. which is should the format for presidential debates be changed? 84% of i say, no, they shouldn't. 16% say yes. ns, does your mouth often feel dry? a dry mouth can be a side effect of many medications. but it can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath. that's why there's biotene, available as an oral rinse, toothpaste, spray or gel. biotene can provide soothing relief and it helps keep your mouth healthy too. remember, while your medication is doing you good, a dry mouth isn't.

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rubio both hit the 20% mark and defeated front-runners donald trump and ben carson. if rubio a sends, the criticism of him is increasing. today the florida newspaper that called on him to resign his senate seat for missing votes doubled down after hearing this. >> in 2004, john kerry ran for president, missing 60% to 70% of his votes. the "sun sentinel" endorsed him. barack obama missed 60% or 70% missed his votes and the same newspaper endorsed him. >> for a guy who keeps talking new politics, marco rubio is falling back on the oldest dodge in the political playbook, blame the media. jeb bush's team is ready to ramp up the pressure too. u.s. news and world report has a 112-page report from his camp saying rubio is the gop's barack

obama. marco is a risky bet. also cites his misuse of state party credit cards in florida. and it mocks rubio's tomorrow versus yesterday argument. joining me are henry fernandez at the center for american progress and victoria defrancesco. victoria, let me start with you. it seems the bush campaign is at a crossroads earlier in terms of, you know, the bad poll position. they have to stkaoeurbgdecide i going negative. if they put the presentation and start turning it into ads and start trying to destroy marco rubio. what do you think the plan is for them? >> i think they already started to go negative. it started with that dump.

but i don't think it will affect him. the thing with rubio we see, i think it is not going to fundamentally hurt him. his finances in the legislature. the fact that he has missed votes, i think he can neutralize that. marco rubio is very adept at that. however, i think he has more serious structural problems which have to do with is the gop ready to elect the first latino. he was elected out of florida. florida is very different than the rest of the country. sk and second of all, the issue of immigration. i can't forget that donald trump rose because of his anti-immigrant record. and marco rubio is trying to dodge the immigration issue. but ultimately it will come back to haunt him.

>> one of the knocks in that powerpoint presentation from the bush folks, he's the gop's barack obama. he is young, relatively new to the national scene. the first latino candidate versus the first black president. but i wonder, is it possibly an argument that works in rubio's favor in that he can say i have all the appeal of barack obama, the political appeal of barack obama but with a conservative message? >> well, we should remember barack obama won twice and one pretty handedly. so it's kind of an odd thing. i think what we are seeing is two elections going on. one election that's about voters. and clearly neither rubio nor bush is winning among republican primary voters or caucusgoers. neither come close to breaking 10% nationally nor in iowa or

new hampshire. and so they're really having a second election. an election that's a fight between the two of them to attempt to win kind of the mainstream pun it did class if you will and washington insiders. but mostly the big donors. so they are really having a fight with each other. i think that's what this is about. it's not about voters. voters aren't moving particularly to rubio. they're not moving to bush. they are moving to other candidates. i actually think cruz is positioning himself quite interestingly in this as well. right now i think this is really about money and donors and the two of them trying to take each other out. >> that is what is striking to me looking at the new numbers. we put them out from this nbc online poll. the consensus is rubio had this great debate on wednesday. a lot of people on the poll

said, yes, he did. more said cruz did. the most striking was how many said bush had the worst debate. marco rubio, despite his strong very views for his performance, he is still sitting there in single digits for our poll. yeah, he did a lot of damage to bush in that debate wednesday. still no sign of a imagine surge in traction for rubio, though. >> one problem that marco rubio has, he hasn't impressed in the grand campaign. in iowa, new hampshire, even south carolina we haven't seen that organizational network. besides that organizational network, the time, the meet and greet -- iowa and new hampshire are about-face time, hanging out with the kids, going to church functions. rubio, if he wants to really build on this momentum, take the poll numbers and pretty much go and camp out in iowa and new hampshire and south carolina. because order matters. we know this in primaries.

if he really wants to have a shot to get to texas, the super tuesday states, he needs to pick one. i don't know which one. he needs to pick it and invest a ton of time, energy, and organizati organizational resources there. >> at some point here, the republican establishment will look at him and compare maybe it's second ted cruz, donald trump, or maybe to ben carson. marco rubio is the one we need for the general election. they will coalesce. he will be acceptable enough for the tea party. he was the tea party candidate when he ran for senate in 2010. what do you make of that? >> i think victoria made a good point earlier about his position on immigration. and that's going to hurt him really in two ways. first, it hurts him, as she mentioned, with that tea party vote. it alienated him in the

republican primaries. it is part of the reason he's doing so poorly. i think the anti-establishment view right now in the republican primaries is also hurting him. longer term, it is going to hurt him if he is that establish isment candidate with latino voters. we are seeing on multiple issues, but particularly immigration he is hurt by his flip-flop on that issue. >> thank you both for joining us. >> thank you. >> have a great weekend. "hardball" starts right now. the united states sends soldiers to syria. let's play "hardball". >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in