oh, it's even better with funnel cakes. but very sticky. get 15 gigs for the price of 10. and now get $300 credit for every line you switch. now at at&t plane crash in egypt. a very good morning the to you, thanks for getting up with us, i'm richard louie, a russian plane carrying 200 people which we have been watching for you on msnbc on this saturday morning, and it's crash in egypt's sinai peninsula in an area in which egyptian security forces have been battling islamic militants.

let's go right to ron mott in london with the very latest information on that. ron? >> reporter: metro jet -- vladimir putin is declaring tomorrow a day of morning. after departing the ejipt shan -- went down in the northern sinai peninsula which has been the scene of clashes between egyptian military. according to flight radar 24, the plane was descending at about 6,000 feet a minute when it's radar slowed dramatically from 400 plus knots to about 62, that's very, very slow for a

plane of that size. the pilot made a distress call and reported some sort of technical problem. the plane was carrying 224 people, 217 passengers and ejipt shan officials have been dispatched to the crash scene and we have not seen anything official this morning suggesting that there are in fact survivors. we the do know from reuters, reuters is reporting search and rescue teams on to the ground saying that 220 passengers have been found. as with we mentioned russian president vladimir putin has edeclared tomorrow a day of

mourning. >> it's about 2:00 in the afternoon there in the area of sharm el sheikh, the area in russia that we have been talking about. you've been watching the story overnight and the information has been coming in over the last several hours, how has that changed and we have also heard about, this is a very common route, similar to i guess in the u.s. and the eastern seaboard when it gets cold and you go down to florida, this is what mr. russians do in sharm el sheikh. >> reporter: we co-do think that most of these passengers were returning from vacation in sharm el sheikh. we understand that president putin is sending -- he also says that his minister, emergency minister will coordinate the search and rescue and obviously there's going to be a lot of

questions about this plane. the airplane is only 18 years old. that is not very old in terms of aircraft that are flying commercially around the country. we also have heard some unconfirmed reportings about the black boxes being recovered, we don't have any official confirmation about that. there will be a lot of information that investigators can glean from that. but we have been watching the radar returns from radar 24, but this plane dropped dramatically, but this plane was level just under 31,000 feet when the trouble s.t.a.r.t.ed. >> former ntsb board member and anthony roman ceo of an investigation team. first, anthony, the speed that

ron mott was talking about dropped, what does that mean if that turns out to be true? >> if that data shows to be true, it indicates that they were having extreme difficulty controlling this aircraft. you want do raise the nose of the airplane. perhaps we had a stall in the airplane or some other problem in controlling the plane. >> mike, you're a pilot. when we get this data of a flight decreasing in speed, losing altitude 6,000 feet per minute, if that turns out to be true, in what situation would a plane be doing that. >> i think the do pilot would

look for the nearest diversion and one of the crew would put out a distress call, it can indicate a very, very serious emergency. the report got under way from sharm el sheikh, the track of the aircraft, on the eastern side of the peninsula, then came left of the sinai peninsula, climbing the 31,000 feet. and with we know that the pilot put out a call to a small town on the northern part of the mediterranean and was attempting to make a landing into that. the kink left at 31,000 feet and then it seems to have come to sort of a problem. >> it seems like it was going to

do what it does every day, and then we have at least reports of that call for help. >> certainly if you look at the pattern on flight radar 24, it seems to have been following a normal path to take it out over the mediterranean. if i was a pilot and i had a very serious problem. i would be putting out a may day call as soon as i could and i would be turning back to sharm el sheikh and back into cairo international. it seems that there was a problem, but it wasn't serious enough to turn back and go back to cairo, and then the problem may have escalated into something a little bit more disaster rouse. >> the national transportation safety board, a board member, when you look at the data,

because all with we have got is the flight at 31,000 feet, at least from flight radar 24, and we have seen in the last the 20 seconds a lot of deviation in terms of speed as well as altitude. what are you look at right now? we're just hours into this, as have been said. >> the speed has certainly been called into question as an aerodynamic stall. it didn't have enough speed to keep it in the air. why did it go into that mode? we can't rule out pilot error. that's the possibility, the fact that it's climbing and diving a little bit if that's accurate is going to change that some. >> and air france -- in this case, early weather indications, that doesn't appear to be perhaps the same condition.

>> we still could have problems with the crew and/or with the instrumentation on the plane. >> we have multiple computers that fly this airplane. >> it's a fly by wire, one of the very first airplanes to do that. >> it's been refined since the beginning. it's a very reliable airplane, as you said in the beginning of the show. the airplane right now is low on the list of probabilities. >> in itself, at least from your perspective as an ntsb board member. and anthony, when we look at the age of this plane, 18 years old. and this particular tail number may be as olds as 18 years or so. that's not necessarily old in this industry. this plane, if you get on a southwest airlines flight here in the united states that's most likely a boeing 737, the equivalent popular plane used

throughout the word is the a-320, this is a very popular plane that has a greet safety record. >> it is a very, very safe aircraft. but it is a very complex aircraft. and all aircraft have histories of some mechanical anomalies, electrical anomalies and it's had it's share of accidents and problems. the faa in 2013 issued an airworthiness directive about cracks around the cockpit windows that could cause a serious depressurization or in some case an explosive depressurization situation. i'm also a pilot and and investigator. all computers simply have computer code in them.

and when programmers are programming that code, they do make a series errors every now and then, they're called glitches or bugs. and in aircraft, it's a very serious thing that can happen. >> if they find the black boxes, that will help us know what happened in those final minutes. i want to update you, egyptian officials now saying that there are and they're reporting, egyptian officials there are no survivors and msnbc will work to confirm that and we'll have the very latest here. we'll be talking with about this throughout the hour, i want to thank you for stopping by at the top. stick around, i i know we'll be talking to you throughout this morning. appreciate it. we'll stay on top of this story, but can coming up next, republicans in iowa rally this

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well, the final republican cattleal call before the iowa caucuses is set to begin in just a few hours. the two candidates leaving the state pollings, ben carson and donald trump, they're not going to be there. this is the last deal as we were saying here casey, what's the thought behind that? >> just about 90 days out from these caucuses, richard, and they are leading the polls, so trump and carson have held their own separate events in iowa, there is some argument that standing up on stage with the

entire field wraps you into something that you don't necessarily want to be brought down by the other people in the field, trump had two rallies in iowa earlier in the week. this is going to be more on the fun side, marco rubio has a place where you can play corn hole, and other things, so it should be an interesting day here. >> there in the midwest, something that you and i may have both learned to do well in michigan at some point, but they'll be doing that while another billionaire, let's talk about another billionaire for a second, paul singer, signing up behind marco rubio, maybe you'll be throwing around dollar bills of gold in a few seconds because rubio is going to be backed by -- >> rubio really stood out and

paul singer is a bundler investor. he's been putting together his own money, but he's someone who was courted by the bush campaign and by the rubio campaign and he had been said to be consider ei both of them, but that debate performance from bush made it clear that this was the time for him to come out for rubio. he wrote letter that rubio was the best person to lead the country in foreign affairs and also domestically and the way his message seems optimistic. it's a significant blow to the bush operation and it's yet another sign of the tension between the two of them and the way in which it's shifting from mentor to protege here.

>> thank you so much for that, casey. all right, let's get over to the numbers, we have a new nbc news online poll, it shows a tie between donald trump and ben carson, with 36 nationally. 24% of the republican voters polled believe that cruz did the best job in this week's debate. 20% believe the same of marco rubio. while 38% of those polled believe jeb bush displayed the worst performance. let's get to our panel. since robert flew in from london, shall we let him go first on this? >> maybe last. >> you're very, very vibrant as

always. so paul singer, billionaire, certainly means a lot to the rubio cam pain. bush, who theoretically ---is this symbolic or actual? >> the bush campaign raised 1$15 million. they sucked up all the money a couple of months ago and the reason why is because of the name and because of the network. and what we now see because of jeb bush's performance is that there will be a dryup in funds. people are going to say this is kind of a bad investment here. so i think what's going to happen in the next few months is that we're going to see a huge dip in jeb bush's fundraising. >> so we're talking about a cattle call in iowa, so the

question might be money following talent, because now that rubio has the backing of paul singer and rubio, now when we see the talent that rubio needs to really break through in a way. >> campaign staffers certainly look for a paycheck so i would imagine that some of the mortal let meed operate tys would start to gravitate toward his campaign. those staffers are still looking. for rubio, he benefits from the endorseme endorsement. it's a financial endorsement and a political one. he's also getting earned media from in. so he had that very strong debate performance, because he's very quick on hiss feet, he benefitted from that. now he moves from the publicity,

and now this major donor is going to throw his heft behind rubio. >> it's a sign of the winds changing in a major way in the republican establishment. bush came in and started revealing -- but now he's in a bit of a death spiral and he has of the been performing well in the debates and hasn't been getting the traction he needs on the campaign trail, and he's had to have two meetings in the last week saying things are going okay, don't leave just yet. >> to the republican eelites who want to win look at marco rubio as the best person the to contrast with hillary clinton, as someone who's young, charismatic, who looks like the future and that jeb bush

neutralizes her weaknesses because he carries the baggage and the family name. >> i actually watched the debates twice, and marco rubio was not actually substantive in the debate, he was very upbeat, but he wasn't very substantive, and that says a lot about the republican electorate right now, they want a winner. i think it speaks about trump and also about ben carson. so i disagree with bush. campaign operatives, i was one of them for many, many years, they want to believe in something, they're willing to not get a paycheck because they have a vision, and jeb bush is not inspiring that. >> there's some that are in it for a vision, but others are in it for the money. but jeb bush, the problem is that he never had the base of

support. to the base had mefr been with jeb bush. so even if you take these poor debate performances, they have hurt him more, but his support was never that strong to begin with. and that's a bigger problem for him. >> the first thing said about jeb bush is that he's gilmore with a famous last name. remember the last time he ran for office, facebook, twitter didn't exist and he might be a little bit rusty and not be familiar withal politics in the modern world as is marco rubio. >> i hate to hit the rewind button here, $115 million during the primary. people were inspired by him six months ago, in fact why would you give the muffin to him. >> the activists in the base. >> if you take a look at the fbc numbers, those were the

activists, those were the grass tops people. >> thank you so much, and i also appreciate your time here at the hill. what's on the ballot for this tuesday, we'll fill you in on what to expect on election day 2015. and we're learning more details about the russian airliner that crashed over the sinai peninsula. (ray) i'd like to see her go back to her more you know social side. she literally started changing. it was shocking. she's much more aware. (jan) she loves the food. (ray) the difference has been incredible. she wants to learn things. (vo) purina pro plan bright mind promotes alertness and mental sharpness in dogs 7 and older. purina pro plan. nutrition that performs. ♪ everything kids touch during cold and flu season sticks with them.

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in russia, and most of those passengers were from russia are watching the reports on television, in russia, they don't want to hear this. >> they certainly don't, i mean this is a heart breaking time for all those families. vladimir putin is asking that the world join him in a day of0

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the presidential race this week, there is another election going on right now. one just three days away that we're watching. motor republicans head into the election with an overwhelming advantage. in 24 states compared to just seven for democrats. facing this tough legislative terrain, progressives are turning to the ballots putting their issues to voters and states across the country. ohio will vote whether to legalize marijuana, houston will vote on a began on lgbt dischristmas mags. portland, maine and tacoma, washington will vote on a $15 minimum wage. so will this work for gop strategists on tuesday? dan, this is just some of what's being decided across to the

country. and we were talking a second ago and it looks like those progressives out there will get out to vote. >> citizen's initiatives poll that way because citizens initiate what they want to put before their potential voters to motivate the citizenry to turn out. state governments are seen as corrupt or greedy or sluggish, nothing's happening in washington. >> good example of that. >> so we want to put to the voters about minimum wage, and how many black and brown people do we actually want to lock up in the country, do we want to ban fracking, and to say even though our elected leaders are controlled by money, we're going to take these topics on anyway. >> all these initiatives will

pass in california, let's say. >> only about 40% of initiatives pass, even in california, some of them go down. >> how are we going to do? >> i don't know how the campaigns are going in those states. marijuana decriminalization quite well, fracking bans quite well. so what has to be somewhat optimist optimistic, the big fight will be next year, when there's state wide initiatives. the city wide ones are quite important. but more cities have allowed citizens to do this. but it's not like it does away with the need for governments and legislators to be more responsive. this is good that people are doing it and trying to make policy themselves. it's a shame that money limits politics and limits political discourse, this is a way to get outside the limits of the political discourse. >> this is a rare bright spot for democrats. they have been initiated in the last five or six years, but even

in 2014, when the republicans won broadly across the country, a number of initiatives won. you had same-sex marriage legalized in several states, marijuana was legalized in two states, so progressives have demonstrated an ability to get some ballot initiativesthrough in some states. >> and there were some initiatives that forced the hand of government legislators to make moves on those issues to avoid initiatives to have a greater effect. you have seen on the right that they're having very effective initiatives as well. and you're seeing them used to motivate voters.

>> can that power translate to -- i i assume that one of the reasons why you want to register these individuals is clearly the vote over the issues that's on the table. left side hopefully that time sense of passion will translate into running for president. we'll translate that to 2004 with same-sex marriage on to the bam lot. >> what does this say about both parties nationally? >> these ideas are very popular with voters, if the democrats really run on $15 in the fast food work, if that's put forward, they'll do very well. >> my thanks to you for coming in and have a doughnut. u.s. boots on the ground in

syria, and we have a major change in u.s. policy. next hillary clinton and bernie sanders they all square off on a brand-new issue this eelection season, we'll also talk about that.

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if you're just joining us on msnbc, a russian plane with 224 people on board has rashed in egypt's sinai peninsula. officials saying just this hour, no survivors, we'll have much more on this story throughout the morning as we continue to monitor that. but we're going the to shift gears at this moment, the democratic primary entering new territory this morning amount hillary clinton fielding a question about her opinion on the death penalty for the first time this week. take a listen. >> we have a lot of information

that to the death penalty has been too frequently applied and very often times in a discriminatory way so i think we have the to take a hard look at it and a lot of states are looking at it. i do not favor apolishing it because i think there are certain egregious cases that still deserve the consideration of the death penalty but i would like to see those be very limited and rare. >> bernie sanders wasted no time in crawidrawing a distinction o that. >> right now every western tr industrialized country has chosen to end capital punishment. i would rather have our country stand side by side with european democracies rather than with countries like china, iran,

saudi arabia who maintain the death penalty. >> other democratic presidential conditi can dan martin o'malley abolished the death penalty. two supreme court justices suggested earlier this year that to the death penalty may be cruel and unusual punishment. we'll start with tara, what do you think about this and why is this being brought up nowsome. >> first of all, bernie sanders has been talking about this the for decades. bernie sanders is not anything if he's not consistent. so this is not anything he's just started to talk about. this is something that's picked up a lot of steam in recent years. i think we're not a monolithic party, there's a lot of diversity within the party. but on is whole, generally

speaking the party has moved more to the left. the governor of connecticut also abolished the death penalty, there's other parts of the country where that's happened as well. it's gaining traction, not because of the botched executions, but the date that's coming out that shows that it is used more people of color, in particular people of color, hispanics, and it's in the forefront, there's a big push to see that change. >> and the numbers, 75% down to 49%. >> 75% in 1994, and that's because bill clinton was talking about the death penalty in 1994. her husband was pushing this back in the mid 1990s. he signed it into law and in all fairness to president clinton

and secretary clinton, the republicans were also getting tough on crime. in the 1990s, we were all driving while black stuff, in the 1990s, it was probably appropriate at the time. so knowing what we know baltimore and others, we see a very disproportionate people that look like me and that look like you that are getting pulled over for minor misdemeanors and things like that and it's probably because they're people of color. >> democrats we have seen in this poll have moved very dramatically. >> overall? >> overall and it's not only the democrats, you have younger republicans, libertarian like mike lee, people in the senate, rand paul who want to change

mandatory minimums, who support a lot of what progressives want to do on criminal justice. a lot of what the republicans wanted to do in the 1990s--it's not that hillary clinton has disowned her husband's view on criminal justice. >> so democrats aren't supporting it and those numbers have gone down and overall they have gone down from 80 to 71%. why is hillary clinton bringing this up now? >> i think why she hasn't whole heartedly said i'm against the death penalty is because of terrorism. if you mind the polling, around the time when very eagree outside things happen, things shift on the death penalty. when egregious things happen, you'll hear the shifting and the democratic party, while the majority such port it in those

instabss, the people will shift and people will make exceptions. . >> when somebody's done something heinous, but the problem is that people who have not committed those crimes are in some cases being put to death and there's a very big argument for ending it. the latest on that plane that crashed in egypt over the sinai peninsula. we're hearing from authorities and we'll tell you what they're saying, also next, china seeing a dramatic shift in policy. we're going 0 tell you why i made international headlines. 50% more data for the same price. i like this metaphor. oh, it's even better with funnel cakes. but very sticky. get 15 gigs for the price of 10. and now get $300 credit for every line you switch. now at at&t needs a systems check and tires.

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we're still following that breaking story coming out of sharm el-sheikh, that russian airliner, metro jet is the name of the airline, happening in ejichlt's sinai peninsula just this morning. airbus has released a statement

on the slash. it reads in part, sympathy goes to all those affected by this tragic accident. that airframe that belongs to metro jet, one of nine that that airline holds is believed to be an airbus, one of the most popular planes in the world. we're also watching on the saturday for you, what has been a historic week in china. the government there announcing wednesday it was scrapping it's famous, well known one child policy, allowing couples now to have two children. the controversial one child policy had been in place since 1979, but china has eased that policy and allow two children per family. going up to a two child policy

from a one child policy, how does that make sense when they're the most populous country in the world. >> they have an accelerated democratic decline. their workforce which weakened in 2000, and the country will peak in 2028 and then there's a sharp decline where china ends up just a smidgeon over a billion. >> cdon't they want to say that they're the biggest country in the world? >> i think the problem is the economy, people now understand how bad it is and people are starting to put these story lines together that the accelerated change in demography is bad for the economy. remember china prospered when you had this democratic dividend, the extraordinary bulge in the economy. >> we look back and not too long ago, the manufacturing area ask why they the succeeded so well. numbers don't necessarily make sense here. >> now they're moving towards a

service economy but only because manufacturing is collapsing, it's not that services are really taking off, it's not that consumer spending is taking off, but it's just that they're becoming a much bigger part of the economy because everything else is shrinking. money is coming out of the country, almost a half trillion dollars in the last few months. the two child policy came at the end of a four-day economic meeting. >> what a story, moving to a two child policy there in china. thank you so much gordon chang for joining us on that topic. another hour of news, stick with us. why? it's so easy with venture. you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, every day. just book any flight you want then use your miles to cover the cost. now, that's more like it.

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i want to get right to the breaking news this morning on up. that russian plane carrying 200 people, that crash in ejipt's sinai peninsula, egyp shan officials telling us there are no survivors to the crash. tom costello is also with us, but we want to begin with the latest details with msnbc's rob mott in london. ron, what we were getting at least out of russia was new video of families, learning the information as we're getting it in, that egyptian officials sighing no survivors, and what are you hearing? >> no survivors, a very sad day obviously in st. petersberg, families waiting for their loved ones coming home, we suspect that all the passengers are

russians coming back from a very popular tourist destination for russians, the weather we're told was really good, so that should not be a factor when all of this is said and done during the investigation. b but shortly after departure, the radio signal was lost. one of the things that's interesti ing is the fact what e last radar return was in the 27,000 feet area when the plane disappeared off radar. and i was looking at some of the mountain ranges in sinai, the makes don't go anywhere near 27,000 feet. also the fact that the plane slowed considerably from 300 knots to 62 knots, that that looks like a stalled position and you have a plane that's no longer flying in the area. there were 224 people aboard

this aircraft, 217 passengers, and we understand that 17 of those passengers were children. we have not seen any sort of official reports about survivors, as you mentioned richard, it's been confirmed there were no survivors, but earlier this morning, there were reports that there were survivors, but they dispatched close to 4 dozen ambulances to the scene and unfortunately those ambulances won't be needed in terms of transporting people to hospitals that were put on stand by to look forward to possible survivors coming into their trauma centers. so 224 people dead in this crash, vladimir putin is calling for a day of national mourning on november 1. he's also set down some officials of to coordinate and take lead of the investigation down in the sinai peninsula. >> ron mott watching the mechanics for us.

we'll check back with you later this hour, i also want to bring in tom costell ehlo, the beat that he's carried, aviation, a lot of information coming in here, tom, what are you looking at? >>. >> reporter: can we bring ron mott back up? this is the spreadsheet, and it's the radar returns on this particular plane, ron and i, he's in london and he and i just had a phone conversation a minute ago. ron if you and i are reading this time, at 4:13 zulu time, the speed was 413 knots, 21 seconds later, he's dropped from 404 knots down to 62 knots, down to 28,000 feet on the altitude? >> reporter: correct, an it sounds to the me, tom, as we were mentioning on the phone

earlier and i mentioned earlier this morning and the plane seems to me to have had a pitch control problem that the elements on the plane were forcing the pilots to try to fight it to maintain control. so you will see the last radar return that was cemesent by tha aircraft was in a positive rate of decline, which was in this attitude before obviously they went on to crash. so there was a lot of oscillating going ing on and it seems to me that the pilots were struggling to maintain some pitch control over that aircraft. >> this is the data that we're looking at here, and it's showing everything from the last radar contact time, the altitude they're at, whether they're declining or desending and it does appear that the last 30 seconds or so of the flight things suddenly went very badly for them. it would appear that they're fighting to control this airplane. this is an airbus a-321.

this is a workhorse of a plane that's used around the world. it's of the a-320 family, it has a very good safety record worldwide. it is highly unusual that you would have some sort of a problem at that altitude, which is why this is so puzzling. in fact very few of the incidents and accidents that we have reported on and covered over the last 40 years involve a plane that is at altitude. the most recent one at cruising altitude is air france 447 that was lost over the atlantic ocean and in that case we know they flew into terrible weather conditions, the crew got disoriented, and essentially they put the plane into a stall. that does not appear, just based on this data, that does not at face value appear to be what happened here. >> flight radar 24 showing that data, tom. and are you saying, this is initial. that the plane porp pousing in a

way. and those black boxes that we know so well, what will tell us about what happened early this morning? will that tell us better data than what we're getting right now? >> we may not have the complete picture here, in fact we know it's not. when we get the cockpit voice recorder, we will find all the date too, the air speed, heading, what was the flap speed, what was the configuration of the flaps, engine performance, what was the problem with the engine, did it degrade at all, what about the tail? do we know anything about the performance of the tail structure? and the cockpit voice recorder can be so critical because you'll hear the cockpit conversations, you'll hear the pilot and the co-pilot

discussing whatever their emergency might be. that's going to be critical to get a handle on as quickly as possible. one update since our last conversation an hour ago on msnbc, prior to the news that nobody survived this, there was some original reporting from the ground, some rescuers thinking they had heard viss a amidst the rubble, we now know that that wasn't true, everybody appears to have died. why is it that the last radio contact is at 27,000 feet. did they experience some sort of a catastrophic midair break up and what caused that? and we just don't know if that's the case. >> at what point would they drop out of radar and you're saying that's very uncommon. >> the radar should be able to track them all the way down to the ground, especially in the

sinai, and there may not be any other area in the world that is so heavily covered by radar with egypt and israel and everybody watching the sinai. there could have been a breakup of the fuselage. and i don't think you can take off the table, although it's unlikely, i don't think you can take off the table the probability of some sort of hostile act, which seems unlike ely. and reports from russia is that the pilot may have radioed that he was having some sort of technical problem. that doesn't tell us a heck of a lot. there's a lot here to tell us that whatever happened happened very quickly indeed. >> what do we know about metro jet, it's website showing it only has nine planes pretty much

all from the same family here, tom? >> i can tell you that the former soviet union has seen a tremendous growth in commercial passenger service, jet service, because you've seen this ever since the collapse of the soviet union, more and more russians are able to fly, although now with the embargo, and also with the drop in oil prices, many russians don't have a lot of money, but this is a very m popular place to fly to. it's a place for russians who can afford to go. it's a challenge for many of these nations that have seen this growing and expanding commercial air service. but it's not fully expanding, the challenge has been to ensure quality, to ensure that you have good quality pilots, that they're held to the same standards, that has been a chooj around the world.

so i can not speak to the reputation of this airline. >> tom costello, thank you for the very latest on that. here is mikey kay, also ntsb board member. anthony, we were talking about this last hour, and we have more information from tom costello and ron mott and it's jogging, if it turns out to be that flight radar and they normally do, what does that tell you? >> it appears that they had a control problem, and there are several reasons, one is power plant, one is mechanical, we have a problem with the tail and the small wing on the back with control surfaces that control the pitch. and it could be less likely a

computer budge problem that controls the aircraft. we have some redundancy, there have been some history of that reporting, all be it rare. any one of those. >> it's a fly by wire plane, so if you do have a mechanical problem, even though you have computer redundancy, either three, four or five. how does that address that when you're in flight, the plane's jogging, everything is digital, and perhaps the rear of the plane that controls the rear of the plane whether it's going up or going down. >> one of the issues here, richard is that there was no distress call put out. so picking up -- >> no may day. >> know may day or pan call. and picking up on tom's reporting indicates that what happened happened wrath quickly.

there are two ways of tracking radar, that's panning the radar that bounces off the airplane and can tell you the distance. >> that's what we're seeing here? >> what we have got here is the pattern from what's called the secondary surveillance radar. that's the trance responder, that has a four digit code. and every airliner is given a unique code so that air traffic control can mull that over. it appears that that airplane just dropped off of radar. if you then place on top of that that this just disappeared at 28,000 feet which is very unusual. there's no rt call, there's no distress call, and also there's emergency code on the trance responder. so it's all indicating that something happened very abruptly

at altitude. >> the primary radar is typically military use in this area and we probably haven't heard from the military. so they probably have radar that tracks that airplane all the way down. >> thank you for watching this story on this plane crash over the sinai peninsula. and what a policy shift means for our troops. you can't breathed. through your nose. suddenly, you're a mouthbreather. well, just put on a breathe right strip which instantly opens your nose up to 38% more than cold medicine alone.

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on a saturday, we're going to switch gears and talk about the u.s. policy on isis. the president on friday authorized nearly 50 special ops personnel to provide opposition

forces in their fight against isis. they could be on the ground within one month. overseas secretary john kerry announcing that u.s. and russia along with one dozen other countries will work towards establishing a cease fire in syria. no demand for president bashar al assad to step down. here's the latest details. >> reporter: the peace talks since the conflict began in syria in vienna. they were all invited for the first time, which pitches them against saudi arabia, which have very different interests in this county tremendous. the main countries involved in this syrian contest, there were no representatives from syria or saudi arabia, a clear indication that iran and saudi arabia have to come to some sort of

understanding before there can be meaningful change in that country. all the participants agree there needs to be a plan to end the veils in syria. secretary kerry says there's no way assad can unite the syrian people and that russia's position and iran's position was very different than that of the united states and they have to agree to disagree. lavrov says there needs to be no preconditions on removing or not removing at sad. all the sides here agree that there needs to be credible, inclusive nonsectarian governance there which involves a new constitution and fresh eelections for all syrian people including the syrian ethnicities in that country. all sides agree to meet back in syria in the next few weeks to

see if they can do something about this devastating conflict. >> now after the announcement the white house quickly pushed back against the claim to the president broke a no boots on the ground pledge, take a listen. >> in september of 2013, the suspect was receiving questions about what the yauts was prepared to do given the indistance that president al assad had to go. but the president said that he was not prepared to put boots on the ground to take down the assad regime. >> we have heard that assertion many times that we wouldn't put boots on ground in syria. >> you have read one quote which takes it out of context. the situation that the president has described is a description of the kind of men and women that assad will have in their isil campaign. >> blasted the president's syria

strategy during a one-on-one interview with chuck todd in this week's meet the press. >> if the president now has a syria strategy, i would like to see what it is. he has not had a strategy, but if he's come up with a strategy, we need to see exactly what it is that he's proposing and then make judgments. >> do you think he's authorized to do this without congressional approval? >> i want to see what he's proposing before rendering judgment. >> luke russert, we have been playing what has been said over the last 24 to 48 hours, criticism seems to be coming from all sides. what's the white house saying this morning. >> reporter: they say richard, this morning, that this was necessary, that the situation has deteriorated to the point where they felt the 50 commandos

to train, advise and a assist in a combat role could make an impact in trying to kur the country gonzalagainst the anti- forces as well as the more moderate syrian militia. this is interesting because they viewed it as an opening occurring because of how the kurdish forces that would be able to hold the ground which they have aiken. all that being said, richard, which is very interesting here, is that this comes directly after russia over the last few weeks has moved into syria to back up al assad. so a lot of people who work usually in the hills see this as a reaction by the white house that russia's continued involvement in syria as well as the belief they want to hold the ground they have taken so far.

however i can also tell you from my conversations on capitol hill, there's universal believe that 50 commandos, training, advising and assisting, whatever that means is not going to be enough, you are going to need to have more. i thoughts paul ryan's comments were very measured. a lot of democrats that i talked to today do not want to get into this, they see this as a drip, drip, drip. >> nbc's luke russert there at the white house this morning. joining us now is u.s. ambassador to russia. thank you for being here this morning. from luke russert and other reporters on the hill, making the point that 50 boots on the ground not really going to impact a four-year crisis for

refugees there in syria. what's your thoughts on these moves? will this actually move things? >> well, i would draw your attention that first, this is the first time the administration has committed to an open ended mission involving our troops on the ground. they don't have a combat mission, it's advisory, it's at the headquarters level, it's not even advising on calling in aircraft strikes to improve the quality of those strikes. but it's significant, the timing is significant, that it happened, it was revealed today that the major conference started up in vienna to signal to the russians, we're here, our guys that we have been supporting, we're going to continue supporting, it's a signal to friends and allies like the saudis. >> ambassador, what would you

say might be the potential next steps if the critics are saying this is not enough to move things off center? >> i think if this is going on against the backdrop of a move to get diplomatic talks going, to get a political talks going for a cease fire, that's really the big news, that they did agree in general terms yesterday in vienna to get a cease fire going country wide. this is a marginal contribution on to the military side, but it's a signal to the united states and to the russians. coming up, we'll bring you the latest on to the russian airliner crash on the sinai peninsula. later also hillary clinton expanding her lead against challenger bernie sanders.

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if you're just joining us on nbc, we have been following the breaking news all morning for you, overnight that russian airplane carrying 224 people crashing in ejipt's sinai peninsula. we have learned all 224 were killed in that accident. nbc's ron mott has been following that story, and right now in sharm el-sheikh where that plane did take off it is 3:30 in the afternoon. it happened very early in the morning if you've been watching it, what's happening at this hour. >> reporter: there's going to be 224 heart breaking stories to emerge from this crash. in russia there was a friend of a newlywed couple that had gone on vacation. they were returning to russia when this plane crashed.

they really wanted to go to egypt. and her friend responded this is a place she's always wanted to see, she is among the dead as well as her newlywed husband. we can also tell you and this will be interesting going forward as the investigation can'ts here is that russian transport investigators will be looking at the safety inspection of this russian area, in 2014 they found some violations and gave the airline some time to correct those violations but apparently the airline did just that, but to the see this so soon after the crash, the investigators will want to go rights to that record to see that this airline was maintaining the aircraft in the way in which the government would have liked to have seen it. it's clear that the weather was not a factor, it was clear and the morning dusk was just about to arise there in sharm el

sheikh. i have seen conflicting reports that something happened at altitude with this plane that seems to suggest that there was a pitch control problem and the plane landing in rather hostile areas here and there was a huge clash there this summer so we don't suspect and have not seen any official confirmation that this was a sinister act brought about by terrorism. it appears that this might have just been a mechanical disaster and we'll know in short order, i suspect, what that was, richard. >> nbc's ron mott watching the details coming in to us. nbc aviation analyst, as ron mott has been reporting for us, those key pieces of data that we

have been looking for, flight radar 24 and what ron did is what tom costello did, is that spreadsheet, is that they were looking at how the plane's a lot tud was changing and it may have been a porpoising if you will trying to stay in the air, are those pieces of data correct? >> if that radar 24 data is correct, is that shortly after they announced that they had a technical problem, started down in a controlled descent, that increased up to about 6,000 feet a minute. that is within the normal flight parameters of a commercial airliner including the airbus a-321. what that says is that the technical problem was one that requires the pilots to descend

quickly. and this is a routine maneuver, pilots train for it. so we can't really conclude anything from the rate of descent, what it says more is what the technical problem was that caused it. >> talking about that rate of descent, if it is indeed 6,000 feet per minute, compare that for us if you will, what we normally experience when we are landing from a flight in the united states, what is that rate of descent normally? >> the rate of descent can be very variable, and it is not uncommon if an airplane is descended, you may very well be at 6,000 feet a minute, the thing that the passengers feel is the rate at which the nose goes down and how you enter that descent, you can enter from 1,000 to 3,000 to 6,000 feet a minute and it feels very normal. and at the back end of it, you rereduce that rate of descent

gradually and this would be normalal. >> again, going back to this radar data. is it with the back of the plane, or is it a possible problem with the flaps on the wings themselves when we look out the window that at least this data is telling us right now? >> you wouldn't see, to get this to separate is panels on the wings known as spoilers, they would extend, which hechlps increase the rate of descent and you feel a little bit of buffeting when those flaps go up. otherwise you would see the nose gradually go down, the power would come back and the flight -- would come up. it would feel very normal other than that little bit of buffeting. >> thank you so much. coming up, local leaders are

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. let's talk about the democratic strategy. polls showing that hillary clinton is expanding who are lead over 20 points over bernie sanders, but sanders maintains his control over younger voterers, 18-29. hillary clinton leads with all the other age groups here. and voter attitudes also separate the two. 63% of voters who are satisfied with the government, they support clinton. 43% of those who are angry with government, they support sanders. this is the first time you see news online poll conducted since

vice president joe biden announced he would not enter the race. our panel still with us. who wants to get in on this. you know, bernie sanders has compared himself to barack obama at least compared to the young voter support. >> the reason why hillary clinton is doing so well, first and foremost, something that is in her control and something out of herral control. vice president biden getting out of the race was something she couldn't control. but something she did marvelously was the benghazi hearings. she sat there very patiently and answered the committee's questions. my party did a horrible job of beating up on her and being very petty a pet petty and vindictive. i have a problem with hillary clinton on a lot of issues, but

she seam -- now the question becomes is whether or not she's going to be able to maintain this going into the general, but that depends on who the republican nominee is. >> bernie sanders, his supporters are pretty hearty, they're not oh, maybe i'll vote for joe biden, but now i'll support bernie sanders. those that were supporting joe biden, not all of them have migrated to hillary clinton, so she benefitted from that. also she had a rough summer. but what she did in that first debate. was she really established herself, she re-enter deuced her to people. that she was a wealthy woman that came from wealth. that's a perception that's out there, she talked about what her real background was, she was

forceful, she showed passion, she was crisp in her responses and that's what democrats have wanted to see from hillary clinton. people felt like she wasn't having as good a time and she showed passion and enthusiasm and that's what people wanted to see. >> but by deducing this, it wasn't young voters who went to her camp. >> it was always the fact is that he was a tower in the democratic party. all the ammists have not seen -- that was always the case, what bernie sanders did was he generated a lot of enthusiasm from young voters and portrayed himself as someone who's proguessive. and the very good month that hillary clinton has had, from benghazi, where she exceeded expectations and she was helped by democratic leaders who talked about this benghazi hearing not as a fact-finding mission, but

as a little bit of a political expedition that ended up driving down hillary clinton's poll numbers. bernie sanders was always the swruchbd dog, he never looked likely to win, it looks like he's going to win in new hampshire and he's going to give herr a built of a fight in iowa. >> back in 2007, hillary clinton was up 20 points from barack obama and she had some self inflicted wounds going into the primary. >> so you like that bernie sanders is comparing himself into obama obabarack obama is we saying? >> obama got those, bernie sanders -- >> you guys keep on going, up next, what mayors of two u.s. cities plan to do about gun violence in their own cities, stick around.

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behavior of eelected officials changes. so so the main thing i'm going to do is i'm going to talk about this on a regular basis and i will politicize it because our inaction is a political decision that we are making. >> that was president obama earlier this month, days after a deadly shooting at an oregon college. now mayors of major u.s. cities are voicing their frustration with congress on this very issue. 9 0% of mayors in a political magazine survey says congress is doing too little on the issue of firearm and gun violence. we have stephanie minor of syracuse and all

syracuse. what's your reaction to what the president has said? >> i was pleased with what the president has said, just this week in syracuse, we arrested a parole violator and he was found with an ak-47, a magnum automatic and a 22. what we're finding is these guns are coming from syracuse, and they're not even coming from new york state. they're coming from states that have relaxed gun laws and they're falling into the wrong hands and there are innocent victims and families that are grieving because of congress's failure to enforce reasonable gun control or enforce the laws that are already on the books, this is something that's not going to go away until the policyholders act on this. >> 89% of the mayors indicating that they -- that's one of the

results of that, are you part of that 89% and do you agree with that assessment? and if so, how would you see that improvement being undertaken? >> i am part of that 89%. and i believe with mayor m airks n er miner. and at a local level, we don't have the luxury of being ideological, we have to be practical and we have to act. so later this week, i'm going to announce taking executive action to taking illegal guns off the streets and getting guns out of the hands of people that are violent offenders. this is not being hostile to the second amendment, it's not even about tough debates about crime that took place decades ago. we face real issues on a day to the day basis on a local level, and getting guns off the street,

educating people about the zarn dangers of guns and letting them know how to inform lawmakers about getting them off the street we we can make a difference at the local level. i am somewhat skeptical that it will come from washington, d.c., so we're going to continue to put the pressure on, but at the same time, we're going to continue to act at a local level to make sure we address these very local concerns that people have. we have to make sure we keep our street s safe and we are to tak common sense measures to make sure that these illegal guns are off the streets and out of the hands of violent offenders. sometime next time to talk next time on the talks of the day. thank you for stopping by on this busy day and this busy morning. >> up next, a halloween costume

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continuing to get more information about that deadly plane crash in egypt. all 224 people on board the russian jet have died. just confirming that within last hour. the investigation, that is under way. russian president vladimir putin has declared today a national day of mourning. we're going to go live again later, next hour, to london, to get the very latest. stay with us here on msnbc throughout the day as we follow the details as they now look at the wreckage on the ground there on the sinai peninsula. a lot more going down this morning. we'll get caught up on the other headlines. a little fun along the wait. we were talking about this before the break. it was halloween at the white house. tara, i think you were saying it was pope francis had returned. >> i can't believe he came back so quick. >> the president and the first lady coming out, you know, with candy to trick or treaters.

there you go, the popemobile. or the fiat itself. president obama got a kick out of that little popemobile by the way. telling the media that child got the top prize. cute kid though, right? >> very much so, no doubt. >> this is another one, from the hill. the headline reading, clinton asked staff about smiley faces. it's an april 2012 e-mail. clinton writing to a staffer, quote, here's my question on this new berry, can i get smiley faces. and the staffer, according to this e-mail, said type them out manually like this for happy or this if you want to express anger at my tardiness. so, you know, we're all i guess having blackberry issues. >> everyone's got to learn emojis at one point. when you're running the world, you can probably delegate it. >> i want g-mail to have it. sometime also i want to do rolling eyes.

they haven't put it in yet. at least i don't know. >> the secretary of state wants to send a smiley face to president putin or something. >> it's diplomacy. >> you get a little sense who they are as people. >> i'm surprised she didn't ask chelsea. maybe she did. >> it kind of reminds me of my mom. i get these calls all the time saying, i'm on my ipad, how do i do this? it's very endearing i think. those type of e-mails coming out are good for her. shows she's a real person. >> shows humanity. this one i got to talk about. it's saturday so michigan football. espn with this headline. michigan fans meet in espn.com comment section. they fall in love. they just got married. what a great way to end the show today. newlyweds. they met in 2012 on comments section of espn's big ten blog. they're both michigan alumni, go blue, they made it happen. >> i feel like this may be the only good thing ever to come out of a comment section.

comment sections. i'm happy for them. >> somebody getting married. >> i had no idea anything positive could come out of the comment section. >> and i live with a michigan state person so i can't really comment on this. >> well, you're still a nice guy. it's been a lot of fun. thank you all three for being here. >> can we have a doughnut now? >> now we can dig in to doughnuts as we go to break. thank you for joining us this morning on "up." thank you for getting "up" with us this morning. melissa harris perry next. stick around for that. have a great saturday. when something works, people stick with it. more people stick with humana medicare advantage. because we stick with them. humana medicare advantage. the plan people stick with.

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