ferguson, and it is high noon and welcome back to "weekends with alex witt" and i'm richard lui in for alex witt. and no survivors of the russian airline er t airliner that crashed in the eastern sinai early this morning. the metro airbus carried 224 people, and the flight leaving sharm el sheikh at the pe peninsula of egypt at just before 6:00 a.m. local time and headed for st. petersburg, russia, due north and disappeared from the radar 23 i minutes aftertakeoff. the egyptian search and rescue teams located the wreckage in northern sinai and egyptian tv

is saying that 30 bodies have been brought to the morgue in cairo so far. we are monitoring the situation from our london bureau, and ron, there is a lot of new details this hour. >> a lot of new details. good afternoon, richard. it has been 12 hours since this plane disappeared from the radar and as we know subsequently crashed, and a sad day for russia with 224 people dead and all of them but three were russian and the others were ukrai ukrainian. and a new report published in london that suggests that the crew earlier in the week had informed the officials with the airline metro jet that the plane was unsafe to fly, and had some issues and in effect should have been grounded. unconfirmed report, but it suggest has the russian officials in the russia and on the way to egypt are giving that some sort of credence, because already this morning, they were seen at the offices of the moscow offices of this airline retrieving some documents we are told, and interview iing the

employee, and also talking to the folks at an airport, and another airport in russia where this plane took off friday and they want to know what kind of fuel was put in the aircraft and we assume it was refueled at sharm el sheikh and they want to see richard some footage while it sat there on the tarmac and people who have vehicles, an access to the airplanes while we are waiting to board them, and so the russians want to see that information as well. the e egyptians for their part need to promise full cooperation from the russians and once they are in the ground to take part of the investigation, and so it is a joint investigation, and the russians want to get to the bot tom of what happened here that cost the lives of 224 people. we can tell you that the last few moments of the flight at least according to the radar data, there is unusual activity that happened at altitude, and so the plane reached altitude at 35,000 feet, and then, richard,

something happened where they lost the altitude and more air speed than i have seen, and they went from 400 knots down to 62 knots which is the last reading which indicates to me as a pilot, that is a stall situation, so the plane may have been ooh nose high in a stall situation where there was no forward speed to keep the plane aloft. we are told that the pilot did make a transmission to the air traffic controllers indicating a technical problem aboard they were dealing w and looking to the land at the nearest airport. we thought that cairo was that airport, but reports of maybe another airport in question that the pilot was trying to get to, but looking at the radar returns it does not indicate that the plane made any real turns one way or another left or right look foing for the alternate airport. as we mentioned that the plane did crash. there was some early confusion about whether or not there was survivors involved so they the dispatched, richard, close to 50 ambulances to the scene, and unfortunately none of them were

needed as the crews got there, because as you have mention and confirmed that all 224 people lost. richard. >> ron mott, standby. and now, as you hear speed of 400 knots down to 60 knots which is losing 80% of the speed, and what does that tell you? >> well, it tells you that the automatic computerized flight control system was not working. actually there is three of them for redundancy, and for all three of them not to work, that is a loss of electrical power, and also nup in the beacon, the radar beacon that is used to track the plane went out quickly. and so the thing that, you can count on is that you will never have complete electrical failure, and there are six sources of electricity on the plane, and to have all of them disappear is unheard of. and then that brings back to

mind, okay, how was the plane maintained? >> and we are et g are getting unconfirmed reports, tom bunn, what are the standards used nationally and interfashlly versed what we have here in the -- internationally versed what we have here in the united states with the neshgs, the sb? >> well, we don't is have good data, and so, it is suggesting that the all is not well. >> when we are looking at the aircraft itself in metro jet, the website is showing 9 of the a-20 family, and more on that, and this particular tail number, and this particular aircraft built in 1997, from what we understand, it has logged some 56,000 flight hours. these planes though, are ta not built to last decades? >> oh, yeah.

the plane is great. it is a terrific machine. when you design an airliner, you have a team the of people who are supposed to figure out everything that is going to go wrong with it, and then come up with a solution no matter what goes wrong with it, there is a backup system, and backup to the backup system. and so to have all of the systems not work suggests that either something happened that had never happened before and nothing that can be imagine d happening before or some maintenance problem where the plane was not properly maintained. >> and when we look at the particular family of aircraft for those not familiar with it, as you know, tom, if you have gotten on to the southwest airlines flight, that is the 737 and that is the workhorse and one of the most pop ularly buil aircraft in the world, and the a-320 just about the same number around the world. this is a common aircraft.

>> and the safety record between the two planes is similar, and they are both great machines. >> tom, as we look at the black boxes which we are getting reports of from state-run media, it is go ing to monitor hundreds if not 1,000 different data points. >> yes. >> and how do you reck osil the loss of power with the the mechanical, and this is a fly by wire plane, and if you do lose power, is there a mechanical backup? >> no, if you lose power, that is all of the ball game, and all electrical, and you are not supposed to do that and you are the six electrical sources, and that is not supposed to be -- imagine being in a room where you have six lightbulbs, and having them the all just by chance burn out at the same time. that is impossible to conceive. but the source coming to those bulbs the if there was a common source. but in this case, it is, it's the unthinkables has happened, comple completely electrical failure has happened and otherwise, why

would they have lost the sig fall from the transponder, and you can see that you can the fly by system if it were working properly never would have let it descend as rapidly as it did. >> it would have taken over and fixed the the problem? >> yes. >> tom bunn, thank you. over the next half hour, we will let you know how the russian government is reacting to the news. >> and the american commitment to the war on isis, taking a new turn. and the secretary of state john kerry is defend iing the decisi to send special operations forces to syria. >> isil is a modern threat to respond, and president obama has made a straight forward and simple decision entire ly in keeping with his originally stated policy that we must defeat and destroy daesh.

>> and now, alongside kurdish and arab fighters in northern syria, and in northern iraq, the military plans to have a rapid reaction force to back up the allied troops and there going to be more air strikes from f-15 bo bombers and low flying a-10 warthogs for support. luke russert is at the white house, and as you know being on the hill everyday, the white house consistently saying that it would not put u.s. boots on the ground, and lot of folks including the new speaker saying that the i am not so sure this is consistent with what is said in the past despite what the secretary just said. >> yes, the white house, richard, they are going to el can you that they have made a determine thags that havit havi so trainers on the ground would

help the kurdish forces or the trusted arab forces operating in syria to maintain the ground that they have been able to get by beating back isis or e beating back other forces that the u.s. government has determined not to be friendly. with all of that being said, what i heard on capitol hill yesterday is 50 enough? the if we are going to do it, we should do it, and we can't put a number quite on it, but we know that it is more than 50. and another thing i heard more from the democrats is that it seems to the us to be mission creep. what is very interesting, richard, is the timing. obviously, you have seen the last few weeks that russia has amped up their support of the assad regime and operating within syria, and the u.s. response has been somewhat muted alongside continued air bombings, and whatnot, and this is the real first show of man pow er on behalf of the united states government that they want to be involved in the future of syria ob the ground. >> as we have seen in other conflict areas, and decisions

here, luke, next what could happen regardless, you know, in term s of the party that we have seen in the past, the hill will say, did we give you approval, mr. president, to do so and what is that discussion looking like on this saturday? >> i think that this is the most underreported story out there, richard. that is that this initiative is being done under the guise of the 2001 authorization of military use specifically on the war on terror in afghanistan. it is intere preted as the war on terror the go into the syria, but now it is operating an entirely different country than what the original authorization is for. a lot of people have spoke up about this, and in particular tim kaine from virginia, and adam shipp the ranking member in the house, and i suspect that you will see amplified discussion about this on capitol hill, but something that the parties take a dive on. the republicans don't want to get too involved with it,

because think don't believe that president obama has the best interests ahead for the u.s. military, and democrats are fearful of this becoming another war in the middle east, and both are sort of happy to take a pass and let the white house lead while beating the the drum and saying it is wrong. and all of that being said, you are sending young men and women into hostile territories without a vote to the congress in something that the founding fathers would not be happy with. >> and he has the walking shoes on, luke russert at the white house reporting for us. >> thank you, sir. flooding and tornadoes in texas, and more severe weather on the way, the late pres the heartland. and new reaction from st. petersburg, russia, and loved ones coping with the news that a russian airliner crashed this morning, and what is happening with the relatives.

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the officials are recovering bodies after 224 people were on board a flight that crashed this morning. one of the black boxes is reportedly being analyzed as we speak. that aircraft and popular of the red sea resort bound for st. petersburg, russia, but it lost contact 23 minutes after takeoff and egyptians felt technical difficu difficulties. and there were russians including 17 children, and we will have more than that on msnbc. and now to politics and a busy weekend for just about every presidential candidate. hillary clinton wrapping up the two-day tour of the south with the campaign rally in south carolina, and the closest rival bernie sanders has focused on new hampshire today.

and meanwhile, the republicans are back in iowa after the third the debate this week. marco rubio, and jeb bush are among the ten candidates making an appearance at the growth and opportunity party in des moines. and also this morning in the des moines, marco rubio had this question about immigration, and the first question asked by an event goer. >> i'm an immigrant, and my family is immigrants, and all of my friends are immigrant, and so it is something that no nation can absord illegal immigration. every country has immigration laws and they enforce them, and america is no different and they should enforce the immigration law, and we don't because we don't have the systems and the commitment to do. so and our failure is a magnet that is enticing people to come here illegally. >> and missing from the group is frontrunners donald trump and ben carson. while the retired neurosurgeon

is taking a break from the campaign trail. we are watching and any moment -- he just got to the stage, donald trump beginning his campaign rally in norfolk, virginia. katy tur is there, and katy, how is the turnup. we were listen ing ing to the m and the crowd is ready to go. >> yes, the crowd is about 5,000 people per the campaign here right now, and then 7,500 rsvps and so a decent turn out for donald trump. the first thing he hit on the stage not unexpectedly is veterans and the military and talking about making it strong and the options that you need that when you are fighting for in a foreign lands abroad. he is releasing a a book on tuesday, november 3rd, and in the book, he is going to be talking about how he wants the make the military great again, and he says to go into the war, you need tangible objectives and my strategy is the exact opposite of going to a war with iraq saying basically that boots

on the ground are the last option, and as we know president obama just authorized boots on the ground in syria, and 50 xhan e does and we will try to ask him about that, and what he thinks about that -- commandos, and we will try to talk to him afterwards about that deployment. the xroud is having a good time as he is bashing the media, and they are turning around to yell at us for not showing the crowd sizes, but you can see them behind me. that is what is happening here sh, and the focus of the military, and it is military crowd in norfolk, virginia, and we are right off of a -- back to, you richard, i'm blanking on the word, and i don't know why i am blanking on the word. >> military ship. >> aircraft carrier. thank you. >> no doubt, an important time there, and he must know that you are reporting live, because he referred to you. >> he jumbled my brain.

>> thank you, katy tur. another round of storms crossing texas today and torrential rain floods have killed two people in the austin area, and two others are missing. the state has been socked with heavy rain and unexpected tornadoes with some areas getting up to 7 inches of rain. charles hadlock is if in austin, texas, checking out one tof the hard hit areas, and charles, how does it look? >> richard, we are to the east of austin in the travis county area. this is is the part of the county hard hit by the floods yesterday. take a look behind me, and this is the result of the flood, and you can see a boat na was on the trailer, and it has been pushed over, and the flood waters roared through the house, and you can see the debris that is left behind, and where did this water come from? well, it is right here, and this creek ironically is nicknamed dry creek. you can see the debris and the limbs of the bushes and the trees here, and how high the water got. it is over my head. now, you mention ed that two

people are missing. they are both from this neighborhood. one woman lived right down here, and she and her husband got out of the house as the water was coming around them, and she 68 years old, and her husband was able to hold on to a tree, but the woman was swept away. and right now, the searchers are searching this area right down here for several miles down the creek bed trying to find any remains there. this is coming just two years to the day of the halloween floods of 2013. back then, the water got up to about 30 feet in onion creek which is a tributary, or this creek is a tributary to onion creek, and we have to step out of the way as the cars are going by here. that water is receding, and the cleanup is under way, and this area is still being combed by search and rescue crews trying to find the two missing people. richard? >> charles hadlock in texas

watching the floods there. thank you, charles. >> sure. and now sh, staying out of syria's civil war and combatting isis, and how difficult it is going to be as the u.s. spends special ops forces to syria. we leave out poultry by-product meal, corn, wheat and soy. and, we own where our dry food is made - 100%. can other brands say all that? for grain-free nutrition you can trust, does your food go beyond? learn more at beyondpetfood.com if you have moderate to severe ...isn't it time to let the... ...real you shine... ...through? introducing otezla, apremilast. otezla is not an injection, or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. some people who took otezla saw 75% clearer skin after 4 months.

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(patrick 1)than me. i mean, you...us. (vo) go national. go like a pro. new today, u.s. secretary john kerry says that troops will only fight state run islamist and won't become involved in the war. friday, kerry met with diplomats to seek a solution to stop the fighting. they will meet again in two weeks. this is following u.s. secretary ashton carter who says that u.s. boot boots on the ground and in syria in direct combat. >> we won't hold back from supporting the capable partners to attack isil or conducting such missions directly ooeithery the strikes in the aor direct a action on the ground. joining us is cia veteran robert

grenier who served as chief in pakistan and afghanistan in the buildup to the war and then later served as the iraq war director, and cia director of counter terrorism, and also spent 180 days in kandahar. thank you for being with us today, robert. and i want to start with this distinction made by secretary k kerry, and the pledge to not get involved in civil war only to fight isis, and is that practical? >> well, it is practical, but it may not be effective. the russians are doing us a favor to get more heavily involved there, but yes, the u.s. wants to limit the military role to the extent it can in opposition to isis, and that they are the party in the conflict that are of the greatest concern to us. >> those who are on the ground then, they can clearly distinguish when they are engaged, and the two different scenarios that have been made by the secretary of state here, and

they can pick one versus the other. >> well, they can, and in the places that we are fighting, that is primarily in the north and the east of syria where we are operating primarily in kurdish forces and the ipg on forces forces, and the arab tribal forces in eastern syria. the civil war, if we make a distinction between the two struggles that are centered primarily in the west of the country, and the zus providing some support to the opposition elements there, we are not getting direct thely involved in the civil war itself. >> and robert, the verb that is being used here is to assist them, and what does that mean to them, to assist? >> well, it means that we are not coming in with conventional u.s. forces, and we are not trying to take over the major burden of the fight, but instead, acting in aid of and enab enablers for the indigenous syrian forces on the ground, and primarily the kurds and the tribal fighters in syria.

>> is this leading or training or would it be engaging? >> well, i think that it is a combination of all of the above. if anything, i think that this administration has been very modest in the efforts, and even in the introduction of these 50 or so special forces elements into northern iraq that we are told only operating at the headquarters level. and in order to be fully effective they have to be out there at the tactical level ord fairly providing the assistance to the u.s. air forces that are providing those forces. and now, you have headed the facilities that are training the special ops, and we have 50 going out there right now, and what is it that you would train them or tell them about what they are about to enter to such a theater? well, again, i would be telling them something different from what the administration is telling them. the administration wants them to provide guidance at the headquarters level to the again primarily the kurdish forces on the ground. if it were my choice, i would

like to be more row bust and little bit more aggressive in pushing the u.s. advisers out to the tactical level. >> give me some meat on the bone there, and what do you mean being more involved on the tactical level? >> well, the greatest support that u.s. special forces, and usually when we are talking about the special forces on the ground, we are talking at the 12-person a-team, and these are not the people who are going to be carrying the burden of the fight, but they are out there to greater enable those indigenous forces that they are enl bare e with, and the greatest support is to guide u.s. air strikes in a combined air/ground operation. that is what they are the very best at doing, and unfortunately, in syria thus far, we have not been doing that. and so some of the debate as you have been watching, is this the right number? if you had the right size of the number to be deployed, is this 50 additional enough? >> well, it is easier to say it is not enough. and it is only people who are

there on the ground who can make the judgment as to what the numbers ought to be, and again, the key question here is not how many we need, but what the role is that we are going to be playing, and personally that the role is more aggressive. >> and robert grenier, thank you so much as always. appreciate your time. >> you are welcome. and now, to the crash site of a russian airliner. 224 people killed when the plane went down this morning. we will have more details.

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when something works, people stick with it. more people stick with humana medicare advantage. because we stick with them. humana medicare advantage. the plan people stick with. welcome back to "weekends with alex witt", and i'm richard lui in for her today. authorities are looking at the possible cause of the downed jet airliner. that airbus with 224 people aboard crashed just after taking off from sharm el sheikh, and friends and relatives of those aboard the plane are grieving while awaiting news at st.

petersburg airport in russia. president putin called for a national day of mourning for the victims of the crash. and we see the video of the family members so worry and in so many cases so sad. our producer alexi eramenko is there. i can't imagine the sadness that you are witnessing there at the airport. >> yes. many of the relatives are giving dna samples for the i.d., and people have gone home, because there is nothing else to do for them. >> alexi, metro jet having obviously, an area there, and a desk and a place to check in, what is the activity around that des

desk. >> they were still planning to send a second one that should have been serviced by the airbus that collapsed. and so they are saying that they should suspend flights to egypt until the cause of the crash is determined. >> alexey, and as you know the russian government officials are speaking with the metro jet employees. do you have see any postings of the evidence of the government officials at the airport now? >> they are not at the airport. i am next door to the airport, and while a short drive to the airport, there is a lot of people here, and situations, emergency situations being administered, but there is not much to say at the moment.

they don't even have a cause of the crash, but sending 3 to 5 airplanes to egypt to investigate as well as two ministers into the situation. they are careful, and no versions of what happened and what caused it. >> as we saw in the malaysian airline situation, how the airline reacts and how it sets up the communication center to deal with the family members, and friends, as this goes forward is so important, and are you saying that that particular point of contact is at, at a hotel next door? is that what you are saying? >> yes. but that is not the airline. it is the official contact point. the relatives are getting psychological help there for those who need it. and basically that is the operation, but the airline has

made one statement today saying that it is hoping to have the truth to come to light, but no more in saying that the plane had a very good safety record. they have been very hard to get a hold of. but, again, they are much small er than malaysian airlines, because they only operate eight of this which is the difference. >> thank you, alexey eremenko. thank you. mostf of the family members have been told initially the bad news that they have gotten, and we will stay with alexey as he joins us there from russia. and joining now on the phone is a former us airways pilot, and aviation expert, and you have been watching this with us, john, all morning, and what are you keeping an eye on right now? >> i think that the big thing right now is that to get the investigators there to get the

for mall process of the investigation started. and they have discovered one of the recorders to get that brought and into the hands of the experts, and get it read out, and that is going to be the tale of this tragedy. >> and the question put out there, give n the conflict in te area, and again, no indication that the an outside force is involved in this incident, so far. is it safe then one might ask, is it safe to fly in this area of the sinai peninsula? >> i think that probably so. the fact that the airplane was at cruise altitude means that the likelihood of something from the ground hitting it is very, very low. i recognize that is what happened to the malaysian airplane, but you don't have the same sort of conflict or the p weaponry in the area, so that the fact that the airplane was at 31,000 feet means that the

shoulder fired missiles are not capable of reaching it. and when the pilot reports a problem, he reports it as a technical problem. >> yes. >> and he does not mention anything about an explosion or anything like that, and the claims by isis and whomever else is a propaganda ploy. >> and again, nbc news is not confirming that as of yet any such claim. who has jurisdiction in a situation like this, we have egypt and russia and reports they are talking to the each other and promised to collaborate, and reports of the russians officials, and speaking of the metro jet e employee, and speaking with the tour company that reportedly is involved in the leasing or the hiring of the plane for this trip. who is going to be calling the shots here? >> the international aviation organization has a worldwide protocol that says that the

country where the accident happens is the lead investigative agency. in this case, that is egypt. there will also be the possibility of getting help from russia as they are the state or the country where the airline operates from. and additionally, there is going to be the country of manufact e manufacturer plants, and the country of registry which is, which ireland. so those countries together will decide who is going to do what and how to best deal with the situation. and the u.s. speed from 400 knots down to 60 knots, and what is the consideration there, and losing 85% of your speed just like that. >> the big thing is to validate

that the data is correct. looking at the flight's data, there are anomalies in it, and until we can get the flight recorder and validate and verify what okccurred, it is speculative. it does appear that the airplane slowed down, and from that, we will have to determine the best that we can. >> all right. msnbc aviation analyst john cox, thank you so much, and thank you for your help all this morning. the new sign of trouble for the jeb bush campaign. what this is signaling for democrats. that is next.

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go long. >> at this hour, donald trump holding a campaign rally in norfolk, virginia, and talking about e negotiating with iran, and meanwhile, his rivals are taking a look at the iowa gop growth and opportunity rally in des moines. at a separate campaign, carly fiorina went affront runner

hillary clinton's foreign policy. >> the world is scarier, because we are not leading. when we do not lead, the world becomes a very dangerous tragic place. so let me say first that i have truly met more world leaders than anyone running with the possible exception of hillary clinton, only i didn't do photo-opes. >> and she was way off of the camera, and they did find her in the end. and now, joined by democratic political analyst zerlina delfino and also susan, talking about what can hurt you in the polls, what do you think, susan?

>> well, donald trump can control everything other than spending for his plane apparent apparently. he will get all of the air time, and above the fray, and it works out perfectly for him. it is a smart political move. >> zerli thna, what about this who says, he is three back and is moving up in the polls with marco rubio? >> well, he has been lucky and good timing and the strong family background, but he is lackluster, and if i'm a billionaire, am i going to invest in a guy who looks like he has no energy. >> and mr. singer was behind him, and now he is decided not the double down and now that he is moving over to the rubio, he

is very much an establishment money person who can put the money into a super pac and creates his own or gives to other people, but his support is very, very significant. >> and shelby adelson is another p person we were talking about might go for marco rubio, too, and the talent of who is moving or on the fence and on the bush campaign and moving over to rubio. >> and the calculus with is who h the grass roots movement. so you are two tracts, the establishment and who they are back backing and the money, and the grass roots support and energy which is in the ben carson and the donald trump and now actually ted cruz is getting a little by of that as well. so it is going to be interesting how it all pans out in the end, but in a caucus setting, you need the people to knock on the doors and get people to show up. i don't know that dumping money into a campaign with a lackluster campaign is going to do it.

>> with jeb bush, he has had to cut the expenses and run a leaner infrastructure, he does have the infrastructure in place, and he needs to play on that and keep it going, and he does as of right now have enough money to keep it going for several months, and that is not a problem. i want to move over to what happened at the republican debate this week affecting our sister network telemundo t, and the rnc suspending the partnership with those two networks after what had happened and this is regarding the february debate. the rnc saying they are unhappy with the questions from the cnbc moderators saying that the debate had been conducted in bad faith, and the gop campaigns meeting in washington tomorrow to talk about changing the formats of the debates. susa susan? >> that is it, right there. and that is the meeting. >> what changes do they want here? >> well, what is important is that the candidates decided the to hold a summit on tomorrow.

the rnc basically was completely caught off guard and they had to look like they were going to be doing something, and to not be invite td to the summit was hug and so they took the step to say, look, we are here for you ka can dades and don't lock us out of the meetings, and i feel that the debate is going to happen in february, and five months away and plenty of time for that to be settled, but the candidates want more things. if you are ben kcarson and you want the longer answers and more questions. you want fewer people in debate. and if you are donald trump, you want short questions and answers. >> and you want to see how is is going to affect the debates. what are you seeing from this? >> well, from a party that is concerned about sensorshcensors

if you can't handle it, why are you running for president? >> and that is what chris christie said, if you can't handle that, then you can't handle the presidency. >> and in all fairness, there was a lot of incorrect facts brought up by the moderators, and there were a few issues that should have beeeen looked at by more. >> and not the one where she quoted from trump's own website. >> and becky quick just backed off a but she should have been able to double down know ing that the facts were right. >> and thank you both. >> in the next hour, the spotlight on school police after the rough takedown of the student in the video, and why no standards of how officers should be trained. you listen. you laugh.

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just about every republican

candidate is in iowa today, and ten of them including jeb bush and marco rubio are making appearances at the growth and opportunity party in addition to other campaign events. not there donald trump and ben carson and the absence is coming when two polls of the key state show that carson is beating trum thep by almost 10 percentage points now. and joining me is paul singer, and correspondent for "usa today," and as you pointed out on twitter, do not confuse me with the major donor who backed up marco rubio. >> right. i'm not that paul singer. >> but being a mega billionaire ain't so bad, paul singer, the journalist. >> right, exactly. >> and first of all, look at the new numbers from the new poll, and that is a significance distance here, and what is your thought? >> well, we have been seeing ben carson trending upward in iowa

over the past several months really, and over the past several weeks, and he has made tremendous ip roads with evan gel cal evangel evangelikcal movement which is very important in iowa. it shows the ground swell in iowa and getting closer to people voting, it has to play out. >> and is it going to be interesting, paul singer, to what donald trump is going to b doing, because a double-digit lead by ben carson is something that donald trump is not used to. >> right. and richard, it is interesting to see the debate the other night, and slightly a toned down donald trump in part because one of the things that they said they like about ben carson is that he is a very pleasant person, and comes across as humble which is of course not donald trump's strong suit.

>> no, no. >> and it would be interesting to see a different donald trump playing on the campaign trail now to try to tone himself down a little bit. >> humble out of his lane, shall we say. >> not his strong suit. >> that is right. let e let's talk about paul singer, the billionaire for a second, and your doppelganger. his endorsement of marco rubio, and talking with susan de delpercio, and what about jeb bush? >> well, he is reducing the expenditures of the campaign and downsizing a little bit, and then paul singer, the other guy, who is a very well established republican donor, not only announces that he is basically buying all of the stock in marco ru rubio, but he also has a tremendous network, and immediately sends word to the network saying, hey, pals, and friends in the republican party,

come on over to the rubio side, and that is dangerous for jeb bush, and that is a little hole in the dike there, and the water starts to flow through, a nd ths is a dangerous thing. >> and staffers want to be paid, and staffers follow the money, and they see that it is the energy of those who are in play, and on the kconservative side ae going that way. >> that is right. and it also shows that the marco rubio can begin to grasp some of the real establishment figures in the republican party that he needs, and that is a good thing, and a good day for marco rubio, and paul singer is a well recognized name among the republican donors, and that guy and not me. >> and getting a voice, because the bush campaign as all of us very well know is stocked full of decades of those working with him, and if you are wanting to get a voice, you might go to marco rubio who is putting that very infrastructure together. >> that is right. and it is also true, and interesting thing about singer's

donation as well. he also has a super pac or pac of his own which backs same-sex marriage, and that is an interesting conversation later on down the stream, and is rubio going to embrace the inclusive brand of the republican party, and not the one opposing same-sex marriage. >> and paul singer, i have a dople gapger, richard lui who is also a billionaire -- >> we should get together. >> all four of us, and we will have a segment, a it will be very interesting. >> it is halloween and i'm dressed up as paul singer. >> paul singer the journalist, thank you today. >> thank you, richard, have a great day. >> and we continue to follow the break breaking news out of egypt where there are no survivors from the russian airliner that crashed in the sinai desert. we have more. so five more gigs for the same price? yea, allow me to demonstrate. you like that pretzel? yea. 50% more data for the same price.

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survivors from the russian airliner crashed in the sinai desert there. the metro airbus 321 carried 217 passengers and 7 crew members. that flight left sharm el sheikh out of the sinai e peninsula, and a famous beachtown. shortly after 6:00 a.m. local time headed for st. petersburg, russia, due north and disappeared from the radar 23 minutes later. and the egyptian rescue teams located the wreckage, and sinai officials reporting that at least 30 bodies have been brought to the morgue already. and we are getting details ron mott, and things that are reported by the egyptian state media and who is flying and who is not, and what are you getting in the news bureau there? >> well, we can tell you that the airline has released a statement on social media that

the aircraft was in flying shape and airworthy and the pilot of the plane, a gentleman valerie neimoff was experienced with 360 types in type, and that is a lot of experience for this captain of the airliner. and we have also learned that the pilot made some distress call to air traffic control saying that there was a technical issue with the plane, and he was looking to land at the nearest airport. obviously, the plane did not make it to the airport, and we have lost radar contact with the jet when it was only traveling with 62 knots forward air speed. it is not enough to keep a jet aloft. in the last few moments of the flight, it seemed to be chaotic in terms of the air speed and altitude and rate of climb. there were moments where the plane was in a nose down position, and recording a n negative rate of climb, and then

moments where it was reporting a p positive rate of climb all within the last 20 or 30 seconds, and so clearly, something was traumatic going on in the cockpit. this is after apparently the flight was operating normally and they had made it up to altitude, to cruising altitude of 36,000 feet. this is a joint investigation, and the egyptian foreign minister letting the russians know that they will have all of the cooperation from the egyptian side to conduct the investigation, and russian president vladimir putin has called for the national day of mourning tomorrow. he has also made it clear that this is a very in depth, thorough invest gags that -- investigation that got under way straight a wway today, because clear that russians transport agencies that the regulates the commercial air travel in russia is already at the scene in metro jet offices there from moscow retrieving documents. and last year, the last time that the particular aircraft and this company had the routine safety check in march of 2014, there were issues that the

government said that they had a list of things that were safety violations that had to be corrected and gave the airline a deadline to fix those problems. apparently, they met the deadlines, and the airline was allowed to continue to put the aircraft into the sky. now, sharm el sheikh is a very popular destination for russians trying to escape the cold winter and get to the beaches there. and so this is presumably a charter flight to take them saturday and bringing them back to st. petersburg today, and they ran into the problems in the flight, richard. >> thank you, ron mott in london. let's bring in jim tillman, aviation expert. we got information there from ron mott from metro jet experienced pilot by the data released so far, and ron mott also describing to us if pitching, the bobbing, and then

this sudden loss of the speed, and then we don't see it in radar anymore. what do you think of these pieces of information that are preliminary? >> well, as i am sure that you agree, that we have bits and pieces of information, that we are trying to put together to form some kind of a picture of what must have gone wrong. i heard someone earlier today describe what happen ed ed in t final moments as catastrophic. i would agree with that phrase. it had to be like that. this crew certainly sounds like they were perfectly capable of handling the routine flight, but for them to go into the oscillation of whether they are up or down or up and down means that we have had a control issue. it could have been some kind of control issue dealing with some kind of a power problem. but you can see where we are going. total speculation. there are so many mysteries here about what in the world could have happened. but the crew knew that they were

in real trouble. when you asked for the nearest airport, you are saying that we have an emergency. >> and jim, as a pilot, and experienced pilot, if if you report that you have technical difficulties, what is the next series of criteria that you have before we say mayday? >> my way of putting it is that you is already said mayday without issuing that word. >> hmm. >> when you say that we have technical difficulties, and the same breath, you are saying something in the neighborhood of take me to the nearest suitable airport. the phrase is not going to make that much difference, because you have a problem that is severe enough so that you cannot proceed beyond where you are right now, and you want to get the thing on the ground somehow. the crew is well aware of the fact that they had a very severe situation going on, and from what we have heard about the oscillations in the attitude of

the airplane, man, they had their hands full. >> and jim, divide and kconquer right, with the co-pilot, and we go out, and they say, that we are experiencing technical difficulties and the co-pilot is doing one thing and you as the pilot are doing another thing, and taub about that as they the are determining the ability of that plane, and their own ability to get to perhaps the nearest airport? >> well, i don't know which crew member was flying, and if it makes any difference, but clearly, they had lost control of the airplane between the two of them in the airplane, it didn't marry up. and when it happens, it is a matter of time before you have lost lives. so, i don't know that we we can say this point that one crew member or the other was actually at the controls. we just don't know yet. >> jim tilmon, thank you very much for your perspective as we are following the latest here on the metro jet crash. again, as you have is said, and

it is early, and we do not have yet the data from the black box that reportedly has been found. i now want to go pack to the very issue of the very area that it happened. it happened in the mountainous area of the mount sinai, a nd that region is known to be home of the regional eisis. and so as we bring in more, let's bring in retired colonel jack jacobs. and colonel, the question, because we are look at this, and no indications and no reports of the outside influence on what has happened so far today. but the question might be asked, is it safe to fly over that area the then? >> well, i think so, and they do it all of the time, and what everybody is concerned about is surface to air missiles and the only surface to air missiles that are on the ground, and terrorists for example are

shoulder fired surface to air missiles under 10,000 feet, and they are designed to bring down helicopters and other low-flying aircraft. so you could probably rule out a surface to air missile as having fwn t been the culprit here. >> as we are looking at the reports from flight 824 which is m monitoring the speed and the altitude, it is in that 28 to 32,000 cruise altitude, and based on what you are saying, it is not making sense at this moment. they are going through, and it is early evening now, and about 7:10 p.m. local time, and they are on the ground, and they are hearing that the russians as well as the e jgyptians are goi the to be working together there to clean up, and investigate the crash site. this is also a difficult part of the sinai peninsula. >> yeah, it is a lousy area to be honest with you.

meteorologically, and in terms of the terrain, it is very, very rugged terrain, and very, very difficult to get to except by air. it is full of bad guys. i mean, bedouin raiders, and al qaeda, isis, and all man per of militants down there with the training areas, and the encampme encampments, and what is going to be required is for a substantial ground security force to bring in and secure the area, because it is only the way to keep the area free of any threats, while the investigation is taking place, and then on top of that, how do you get all of the stuff, all of the bodies and all of the equipment out of there? lots of helicopters. so that is going to be a very, very busy area that is going to require a great deal of security on the ground before the area is cleared. difficult area to get to, and to administer and leave. >> yes. >> and with the helicopters coming and going, and vis-a-vis

with the first part of the discussion here, how will they be able to defend against that as they the recover and investigate here? >> well, what is going to happen is that the egyptianrmy has to bring in a large ground force, complete with all kinds of support, and we are talking about here of a battalion, and as many as 500 people, and soldiers plus all of the support necessary to take care of them and defend them while on site. they will have to establish a wide perimeter, and helicopters, and fixedwing area to survey the crash site, and anybody else who is coming in, and also a lot of coordination with the united states and russia, because both of us have satellites that can survey the area in real time in great detail, and a lot of coordination, and cooperation in this is the only way to do the investigation and then evacuate

everything and everybody after the investigation is over. >> not a simple undertaking. colonel jack jacobs, thank you. >> all right, richard. with united states advisers on the way to syria, what is the new american strategy in that troubled region. fortunately, my doctor had a game plan. treatment with xarelto®. hey guys! hey, finally, somebody i can look up to... ...besides arnie. xarelto® is proven to treat and help reduce the risk of dvt and pe blood clots. xarelto® is also proven to reduce the risk of stroke in people with afib, not caused by a heart valve problem. for people with afib currently well managed on warfarin, there's limited information on how xarelto® and warfarin compare in reducing the risk of stroke. you know, i tried warfarin, but the blood testing and dietary restrictions... don't get me started on that. i didn't have to. we started on xarelto®. nice pass. safety first. like all blood thinners, don't stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase your risk of a blood clot or stroke. while taking, you may bruise more easily

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we are following the breaking news coming out of egypt, and no survivors from the russian airliner crash this morning in i jipt sinai desert and the airbus carrying 217 p passengers and 7 crew member. the flight left egypt going to russia. they never made it outside of

egyptian air space. all right. we will get back to that later here on msnbc as we get more news, but at this hour, we want to go to donald trump holding a campaign rally in norfolk, virginia. meanwhile, he is 1 of 10 republicans are in iowa holding events. katy tur is there in norfolk, a virginia, and they are loving him so far there. >> yes, and he is focusing on the military issue, and there is something that we saw walking in here, and a number of volunteers that were pouncing on everybody coming in to sign a petition to get on the vote here, and virginia is one of the hardest places to get on the vote in the country. you need 5,000 registered voter cig signatures, and at least 200 from each congressional district. donald trump on stage the just

now said that they have 15,000 signatures, and we will see if that is true. the vote here is "march first" and on stage, he has been focusing on the veterans' issues. it is military crowd and active and as well as some veterans. he is right off of the uss battleship, and the "u.s.s. wisconsin" and i got my wits about me. let's listen to his pitch. >> and even with the bad funding and the bad equipment, and you know, we give the best equipment to the enemy, and you know the story, and i tell it all of the time, 2,300 armour plated humvees, and the wounded w warriors would not with be injured if they weren't ride manage the garbage they were in. >> reporter: and also he said that fe had lost a child in iraq, he would be furious that they gave their life only to leave iraq in such a mess, and that got a good reaction here, and he said this he would focus

on the v.a. and saying it is a mess, the make the v.a. great again is a pretty good riff on make america great again. and there is about 55,000 people here, and it is loud crowd, but it is not as boisterous as in the past, and not as loud for all of the rehearsed lines, but even if 10,000 or 10%, excuse me, of the voters who showed up to the events went out to vote for him, donald trump is still in really good shape. back to you. >> katy tur, thank you so much. now, let's bring in msnbc's kasie hunt in des moines, iowa, where donald trump decided not to go to and ben carson decided not the go to, but ten other folks who say, this is worth it the last cattle call, and where the two kasie? >> so far not the case, because

the voters are excited to ear from the candidates up on the stage, and they are mobbed around ted cruz who is at his booth over there in the corner. he is somebody who is getting a lot of attention from the voters here and a lot of attention are from the people behind the scenes who feel that he is in a good position that donald trump or ben carson don't ultimately come out on top here to pick up their supporters. cruz focus odd on stage at the debate process, and this is what he had to say. >> how about if we say from now on if you have never voted in a republican primary in your life, you don't get to moderate a republican primary debate. >> he went on to mention that shawn hannity and rush limbaugh and don levine would be a good

xhen commentator and a thorn in the side for the republican national committee which has come under fire, and of course, a meeting today later today with the campaign representatives to figure out a way that is better for the debate process, and many of them are angry with how the national republican committee has handled it. one person who is not upset is chris christie. and he got off stage herek and he is being followed around by a significant crowd, and many of them are holding giant cardboard cutouts of his face, and he said that the rnc is doing a fine job, and for the candidates who are complaining, if you can't handle being on the stage, how are you going to be handling the tough situations when you are president. richard? >> thank you, kasie hunt there in aiowa. the u.s. war commitment to isis is taking a turn today. u.s. secretary of state john kerry is defending president obama's decision to send special operation troop to syria.

>> president obama has made a straight forward and simple decision entire ly in keeping with his originally stated policy. that we must defeat and destroy daesh. >> the administration's plan will send more than 50 special forces to syria. and there must also be more troops to the back up the troops and their allies. and there is going to be more air bombers and low-flying a-10s for local support. and let's bring in the former ambassador the saudi arabia, and former secretary of state under president reagan. ambassador, you have seen these sorts of decisions made in the past. is this move significant do you believe in the u.s. policy? >> i think it is significant. as a signal of commitment, commitment vis-a-vis the

russians, the iranians and our friends in turkey, saudi arabia, and we are in the game, and we are going to be be staying in the game. this is an open-ended commitment. i would not focus on just the sheer numbers which is very small at this point. >> you would say that the numbers are not large enough? >> well, less than 50 is not going to be ending the war, but it is a political signal on the day following the understanding reached in vienna at the conference to have a commitment of all of those present to work for a countrywide cease-fire is new. and it is to remind the friends and adversaries that we are going to be staying involve and see it through. >> and this is the point that you are alluding to, i think, is

the move to hard power from soft power. and the move to more military is really what you are saying just an indication of the commitment on soft power side. is that the within itself, you think the right move? more military? >> well, as i say, the numbers are not significant, and i don't know how far they are going to go on increasing. but you are not going to get anywhere with just soft power. it has to be the hard power in the picture, and it is there with the air force at this point. >> and to the experience, you were a assistant secretary the of state for president reagan at a time when he declared the soviet union to be a evil empire. do you see any changes between the u.s. and russian relations today? >> no, i see a russia which is trying to make a comeback in the middle east region where it was virtually, been virtually absent since the collapse of the soviet union. i don't believe it is grounds to be worried or to see the return

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welcome back to the teena teenagers with alex witt and i'm richard lui in for alex witt and we are watching what is happening out of sharm el sheikh egypt, and the metro jet at 6:00 a.m. this morning, about, leaving. we have new video of the ambulances in cairo bringing in the victims' bodies. just coming into us, and it is about 8:32 p.m. local time. 224 people dead in that crash of a russian airline and metro jet, and the video here in cairo at the local time, early or rather 8:00 in the evening, and so moving on and again sunlight not there as they bring in some of the victims' bodies.

i also want to bring in retired airline pilot tom bunn as we watch the video. they are going to have to operate, if they are, in the middle of the dark and how difficult that might be to find those victims of the 224 people that are dead in that the crash. and how might that be undertaken? >> well, i am sure they will have lights because they know that they are going to be looking inside of the wreckage, and apparently in two different pieces, and certainly portable lights would allow them to continue the search for survivors or nonsurvivors. >> we are getting information here, tom, at the moment from the associated press, and they are saying that air france klm as well as lufthansa, two global airlines have decided not to fly in that area, and our own colonel jack jacob, our military analyst saying no surface to the air missile concern here, because it is only up to 10,000

feet, and the planes fly at 30,000-plus feet. and why have the airlines decided not the fly in that area? >> it is probably just to reassure people. after the shoot-down the of an airliner a few months ago, people may be concerned that they don't want to be flying in that area, and rather than have the passengers back off, they are saying that we won't fly in that area. >> is that a major deviation? it depends on the route that the plane is going to be flying, and it is going to be costing more fuel if the normal route is through that area, and it may be in order to assure the public and their perception. >> what is unfortunate as they were going through the recovery phase, and watching that video come in there in cairo of the ambulances with the bodies, and earlier on, the reporting that we were hearing from here on

msnbc here was that many of the bodies were burned and yet as has been said in the past, and you have as well, in the situations where they understand that they will have an emergency landing, and they will try to jetson as much fuel as they can. >> on this plane, they don't have the capacity to jettison fu fuel, and that is not the issue here. what happened is that the plane went out of control quickly. and we know that some have talked about the possibility of the nose pitching up and down, but it seems obvious to me at least they had complete electrical failure, and something that the airplane is designed to never have. when you start to lose electrical components, the data is goi is going to not be reliable. what is reliable is that we know that the plane descended far more rapidly than the flight control, and the automatic flight control would have all

allowed it to do, and so it was out of the picture, and i believe that the all of the electrical power of the airplane was lost, and that means they have lost control of the plane and the ability to send a radar signal to be tracked. >> again, that particular plane, about 18 years old, and metro jet is the operator of the plane saw i sawing that the aircraft was in good shape, and that the pilot was experienced with some 12,000 air hours of experience. tom, thank you so much, and of course, with we will be continuing to watch the very latest on this situation, and the crash of the metro jet plane leaving sharm el sheikh, and stay with us for that. developing also right now this hour in texas. there is rain, lots of it. look at these pictures. tornados are also possible moving east across the state, and flash floods are already killing two people, and one person is missing. up to 7 inches of raynham mering h -- of rain hammering austin and

houston, and charles hadlock is there. it look like rivers on the streets. >> yergs on the eve of halloween, we are 20 minutes east of downtown austin and this is a neighborhood in rural travis county, and it was devastated by the storms that came through here 24 hours ago. this is dry creek here, and this truck came from two blocks up the street, and the owners' family came to check out the papers and to declare it is a total loss, but look at this. this is another vehicle wash ed into the creek here. ironically, it is called dry creek, and it is almost dry again, but yesterday, it certainly wasn't, and it is well above seven feet above the banks here. we have just learned that the travis kocounty sheriff's offic have been searching the area, and that i have located both of

the bodies they have been looking for, and some closure there, and the search is still continuing for more bodies, but the death toll here is three in texas. >> thank you, charles hadlock for that. now to politics. 10 republicans in des moines, iowa, for a major republican campaign event, and other events throughout the state. donald trump is not there, and neither is ben carson and instead, donald trump is in norfolk, virginia, and talking to the riled up crowd at the moment. he is criticizing the obama administration the's military the actions, and addressing veterans' issues. >> we lost more than $2 trillion, and thousands of lives of unbelievable people, and we have wounded warriors who i love all over the place. and they are great. and we are going to take care of those wounded warrior, and we are going to be taking care of our vets better than anybody. joining us now, betsy woodruff, political report foerr the daily beast, and also jeff barrow, political reporter for

the new york times. and a poll is coming in, and the new poll e shows that donald trump is even with ben carson and 26% point, and 26% points for both for those republican or republican-leaning registered voters. combined, that is more than half of the vote preference. and betsy, the dominance continues for ben carson as well as donald trump, and the two saying, hey, the numbers show it. we are not going to be participating in the last cattle call. >> yes, and what is interesting to me about the new numbers is that the top three candidates are no longer 100% outsiders. after the last debate, carly fiorina rocketed, and now she is falling down the less than 4% of the vote. so even though they like the outsiders, they like these two outsiders with a little love for

ted cruz who is little c controversial among the washington outsiders, and so it is curious to see how it pans out. >> one poll, and josh, things could change, but as joe biden is deciding, josh, that he is not going to be running, we saw the numbers go up for hillary clinton, and that consolidation and united because you have eliminated the i don't know. so would you say that based on the numbers, josh, that we are seeing a divided republican party or coming together as what one would say with the latest poll numbers? >> well, it is a divided party, and one thing in the recent new york times' poll that came out, 80% of the ben carson supporters said they would vote for somebody else. and even though the numbers have move around, they are fluid. i would note about this poll, even though the donald trump has been in the lead for months and now tied, this is not a story about the donald trump following, because this is the highest in the nbc poll is 29,

and he is higher in this poll than july, and so it is a story of oben carson having risen rapidly at the expense, and these two the at the expense of the establishment candidates, and jeb bush down there at 5%. people are still watching the race and saying, donald trump can't really be the nominee, and ben carson can't really be the nominee, and i don't know how confidently we can say that, bau it is probably true with herman cain and newt gingrich taking the lead, but maybe some of the establishment candidates will be doing better by the time we get around to voting, but it has not shown up in the poll numbers yet. >> and back to the poll numbers, marco rubio is one to watch, and talking about jeb bush, and there he is with 9%, and another poll in the double-digits at nu number three, and is he the one to watch for the possibilities there, betsy? >> yes, the fact that paul rubio got paul singer's endorsement, and the news came out yesterday and that is a big deal, because

he has the financial fire power to last for a long haul, and combine with the fact that he is running a thrifty campaign. and also telling is that we have seen a number of anonymous bush donors go to the immediamedia t that they were frustrated with the fact that jeb bush went after rubio in the cnbc debate. they feel loyalty to bush, but rubio is a good safe bet, and they don't want bush e eviscerating the fact that the bush may not make it across the finish line. and so rubio is in a good spot, and so is cruz pulling ahead of him, and he has an interesting mix of supporters from the establishment, and at least some establishment donors with the oil industry, and others. >> but not the billionaire. and now, what does it mean for

marco rubio to have the billionaire behind him, and is he okay with the correct messaging to launch to grab the moment some >> that is what a lot of the establishment figures and donors have established. paul singer who is the largest donor on the republican side, and hedge fund billionaire in new york, these people are looking for the standard bearer, and somebody who they believe can beat hillary clinton and save the par the ti from nominating somebody embarrassing like donald trump. the reason it is coalescing is so many options for that. and jeb is the leading figure for that and raised the money, and rubio and scott walker before he dropped out, and chris christie was expected to do well with them, because he was popular with them a few years ago, and obviously a tough few year, and john kasich is trying to make a play for into the space. and if marco rubio can son do-- consolidate the base, ted cruz

is very unpopular with the republican party apparatus this in washington. people in congress hate him, and they would be upset about him being a nominee. so if it were rubio and cruz race, rubio could consolidate a lot of the institutional support in the party. in some ways the candidates were interchangeable. and the whole argument for jeb is that jeb is inevitable, and that makes him vulnerable. as some people realized that jeb is not looking good, and the donors fall away, and he lost a major staffer, the coo this week. and so if the jeb campaign continues to crumble, marco rubio is going to have the claim alone all by himself to be the establishment standard bearer. >> and the mentee may become the mentor. than you, josh and betsy. that security officer who was fired throwing the student from the floor, and garnering support from a group of people that you might find surprising.

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students walking out in in support of the fired school security officer. about 100 students staged a protest at spring valley high, and they say that ben fields should not have lost his job over the actions this week. fields was caught on camera pulling a student out of her chair, and throwing her to the ground, and dragging her across the floor. fields' attorneys say that the deputy's actions were justified and lawful. joining me now, lisa thoreau, executive director of strategies for youth, and training school officers across the country. so those students, and those walking out saying, hey, what this officer did was right. what are the training standards for the officers, and how they should react in situations like these? >> well, i am glad you asked, because it is a national shame that on average 1% of the

officer recruit time in the academy is spent on training officers how the deal with the juveniles, and about 90% of that time, and in other words, less than six hours is spent on the juvenile law, and not on how to communicate effectively with the you youth, and how the de-escalate situations or to use the use of force or the calibrate it. then you put the patrol officers into the school situation, before further standards and without clarify of the role, and of sight, and guidance of what they are supposed to do, and are or are not supposed to respond to. he never should have been called into the situation at all. you will continue to have these problems ash and you are seeing them in america. in south carolina, the total number of hours in the academy for training recruits is 3.5 hours on juvenile justice. that is not enough.

>> when you look at the officer, and the reaction, was it proper? should deputy ben fields have lost his job? >> i'm not a position to judge w if he's, you know, part of a union and there's a grievance procedure. but i do not think that in any way his response was proper, proportionate, just, fair or even something that promotes the legitimacy of law enforcement. now, i think he did his sheriff's department a great disservice and i can understand why they would want to distance themselves from him. because the lack of proportionality in his response to a youth not putting her cell phone away just defies logic here. it's grotesque. but i also think that if we only focus on the sheriff's deputy, we're missing the larger picture, which really bears examination, which is why did the teacher think this rose to the level of calling in a school

administrator? why did the school administrator cede his or her authority and say, oh, i need a police officer? part of the reason we may see 100 of the 2,100 youth in that school protesting the sheriff's discipline is because we've normalized use of force in so many interactions when there isn't immediate compliance. and, frankly, the federal district courts in civil rights suits are saying, do you know what, even it's a 7-year-old who doesn't comply, it's a 14-year-old who doesn't comply, they don't comply, yep, officers may use force. we need to re-examine that if we're going to hold on to our democratic ideals of a country that's supposed to support dissent and individualism and to question authority as is our historical legacy. >> lisa thoreau trainer of high school police officers, thank you so much. i appreciate your time today. the russian airliner crash

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the very latest on the metro jet crash there in egypt. we're just getting this in from the associated press within the last half an hour, air france as well as klm air france and lu lufthansa deciding not to fly over the crash site outside of sharm el sheikh with us is nbc's ron mott in london. what has been said at least by one of our analysts here, ron, is that it is clearly to make people feel comfortable although there was no real danger of flying over that area. >> yeah, and no real indication from authorities that this was brought down by anything other than perhaps a mechanical error or mechanical problem or human error in the case of the pilots. i will say that as you mentioned

lufthansa and air trafrance hav decided not to send them over the sinai peninsula. the investigation will be an international investigation. officials from france, officials from russia, officials from egypt and germany as well, the aircraft maker, the engine makers are all going to get together and piece together what happened here. but it appears that this plane had a normal takeoff and had reached altitude in the midlevel flight level, 35,000 feet and something went wrong and it will be a matter of time before we find out. they discovered one of the black boxes and as we go forward the focus according to vladimir putin the president of russia should be on these families and the people who have lost loved ones so he is calling for a national day of mourn tomorrow on sunday across that country and has promised the families they'll have the full support of the government to get through the very, very difficult stretches of time for the family, 224 people lost today

all but three russians and ukrainians. >> you can watch ron mott on nbc news and msnbc. up next, "caught on camera." more "sit" per roll. bounty is two times more absorbent. so one roll of bounty can last longer than those bargain brands. so you get more "life" per roll. bounty. the long-lasting quicker picker upper. is it the insightful strategies and analytical capabilities

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