through investigators who are assigned from the egyptian authorities and others. >> a lot of eyes on this case. thanks for your time. >> thank you. republican free-for-all. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. they were once the dignified party. ronald reagan would never enter the oval office without wearing his suit coat. never take it off once he got there the first george bush said in answer to a reporter's question, the greatest thing about being elected president was the honor itself. with that party, the grand old party of fiscal responsibility, restrain in foreign poll signed good manners has been upended by a romper room of party crashers, tea partiers, pushing and

shoving are the way of republican politics with the strongest pushers and shovers calling the shots. with the hillary-leading democrats dainty in comparison. a rebellion that began in the presidential race broke out on three fronts. catch this new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll. dr. ben carson is the new lead were 29%. donald trump 23%. combined the two outsider candidates are backed by over half the republican voters. the second mutiny was capitol hill when one speaker of the house was dumped and a new one, paul ryan, forced to accept terms. speaker ryan says he'll do nothing period with obama on immigration. >> i think if we reach consensus on border an enforcement, that is one thing. i do not believe we should advance comprehensive immigration legislation with apartment who proved untrustworthy on this issue. >> some believe that pledge means you'll work with a democratic president in 2017 if

that happens on immigration. >> i was elected speaker of the house to unify the republican congress not disunify the republican congress. my job is to lead us to consensus and on big controversial issues, operate on that consensus. >> that means the right is calling the shot. now comes the latest front in the rebellion. a republican chairman has been pushed aside told to handle parking arrangements while the presidential candidates tend to the hot issues of the debates. one campaign manager saying major question as if the rnc should be involved at all. nbc caught someone involved in the negotiations saying, there is a role for the rnc in planning and logistics and the campaigns want to be dealing with parking, but format, we're going to do ourselves." i'm joined by howie jackson, eugene robinson and howard fineman.

welcome to the show. >> thank you. >> it seems the republican party is becoming unglued. the rnc doesn't have much clout. boehner had no clout. the party establishment has been losing badly on all the polls to the outsiders. let's get into this. how combustious is this? >> if that is the word you want to use. >> i don't think it's a word. >> look at jeb bush. he's down 8%. this is emblematic. this insurgency trying to block out the rest of the establishment. that's what you're seeing not just with jeb bush but why he is trying to reframe himself as somebody disruptive in politics. >> they don't want a moderator in anything. they don't want anything organized. now they are saying we don't want ben ginsburg helping us to get together.

>> no. this is like a riot. this is a riot inside the republican party. candidates want to take it over for themselves and have the power to do that. >> can trump declare some, my debate night" and invite other republicans to come? >> who knows. ben carson can have his on the internet. they are doing what they want to do. obviously, the rnc is not in a position to challenge them. >> the lack of cohesion -- i'm finding new words here. bespeaks a bigger problem. they don't seem to have anything in common. what does george bush, jeb bush now have in common with donald trump? he wants to blow things apart and go back to the plotting. let's talk about these things. >> the point is, i think the establishment such as it is is virtually nonexistent at this point.

the tea party types and the outsiders are actually -- there is ideolgical animity. they are all on the same page in terms of immigration, taxes, obamacare, you name it. they see what's left of the establishment as an impediment. >> some guys good at spanish, who are more multicultural like jeb bush who defines his family as being a hispanic family, wants to have telemundo as a debate sponsor. trump says i don't want anything to do with it. let's watch this. the candidates are unified and want to take over control of the debate, there is little else they can agree on. this scheduled february debate

said to be hosted by nbc news and telemundo. >> does it make sense to cancel a telemundo debate? >> no. >> he speaks spanish. when bush's campaign's chief made a similar point yesterday, donald trump's campaign manager reportedly said if you do that, trump walks. then there is the rush limbaugh factions saying they should only be moderated by rush. >> how about a republican primary, moderated by sean hannity and rush limbaugh and mark levin? you would get incredible ratings for that. i think a whole lot of people would. >> part of the fight is over language and culture. governor christie now says he doesn't like having only right wing moderators. let's watch. >> listen, i can give an observation that someone was not fair or it wasn't run well, but

not say, that's awful. we shouldn't do it. put podiums up there. put whatever three people you want. ask me the questions. if i can't handle that, i have no business running against hillary clinton and being president of the united states. >> throw any moderator you want. finally, there is the fight over moderators and language, the rebellion of the kids' table. on the way in, senator lindsey graham's advisor said he would be lobbying for equal treatment and no more ghetto-izing of low-polling candidates. trump campaign manager said why would i want someone polling at 0.1% on that stage to take shots at trump? they can't agree on the size of the table, can't agree whether there is a telemundo participation. what else? they can't agree with the moderator, hot shot right wingers or let it play? this is not a political party. >> no. the other part is the stakes are

so high because this is so high profile. of course lindsey graham wants to get on stage with donald trump. trump is pulling in high ratings. >> no one heard of marco rubio until he was invited to the table with trump. >> who watched republican debates in the primary the first three this closely in previous cycles? you didn't. >> newt gingrich. >> look at the numbers from '07, about 2 million viewers. seven times as many people watched last week's debate. this is a huge opportunity for the lindsey grahams of the world. >> how can you look away from it? >> is this a wide-ranging newspaper they want to talk to or small periodical? are they editing this story for everybody to pay attention to or just want the right wing to watch? >> that's the big question. >> who do they want watching? >> they have rush limbaugh they are going to excite and electrify the right. they are going to bewilder and

frighten the rest of the country. >> the questions, like the old days of "the village voice" and what sexual freedoms we want this week. they are going to ask the most nuanced questions we can't believe. >> ben carson and donald trump are calling the shots here now. if the two of them want to go off and stage a conversation, just the two of them, that would draw it. it doesn't matter who the interlocutors are at this point. they are in charge. the whole point is for the conservative message of the tea party that all these people agree. trump, carson, rubio and cruz, they're driving this train right now. and they are trying to dictate terms to the party, media and everybody else. they are pretty successful at it. >> i think what's come apart here, we are going to suppress

the vote. we'll have only the people we want voting. middle aged white people. make it harder for minorities in bigger cities to vote. then we'll get into controlling the debates. it's all this control. what they are trying to do is thwart demographics. they are trying to make sure they completely control the topics and issues. don't ask evolution or science questions, that will offend our people. the reagan library debate, someone dared to ask do you believe in evolution? they were so furious about that. no more debates with wild questions. >> given their own autopsy of what happened in 2012, they should be begging to have telemundo debates and going to every possible venue that expands the republican base. they are doing just the opposite. it's because the people i mentioned are controlling the game.

>> the other thing this does -- >> they should have the debate on black radio. >> absolutely. >> it opens up republicans to this line of attack that they cannot handle tough questions. that's what you're seeing chris christie and john kasich pushing back on. saying they are not going to sign this agreement. >> i'd i like to have a debate. are you for outlawing same-sex marriage permanently? anything against climate change, anything. >> those are gotcha questions. >> what will do you with another economic recession? thanks. coming up -- could gun safety become a winning issue for the democrats? virginia governor terry mcauliffe is taking on the nra.

terry is coming here next. plus marco rubio and ted cruz are the two big winners of last week's debate. >> now cruz is predicted the republican race will come down to just the two of them, the two cuban americans, he and rubio. imagine that? tonight the great robert redford coming with us. he stars at dan rather in the new movie "truth." this is "hardball" a place for politics.

president obama traveled to newark, new jersey, to highlight his efforts on criminal justice reform. the president reflected on his legacy and the need for his successor to carry on the fight for racial justice here. let's watch.

>> i am very proud that my presidency can help to galvanize and mobilize america on behalf of issues of racial disparity and racial justice. but i do so hoping that my successor who is not african-american, if he or she is not, that they'll be just as concerned as i am because this is part of what it means to perfect our union. >> that's our country today.

my name is peter tran. i'm a gas service representative. i've been with pg&e nine years. as an employee of pg&e you always put your best foot forward to provide reliable and safe service and be able to help the community. we always have the safety of our customers and the community in mind. my family is in oakland, my wife's family is in oakland so this is home to us. being able to work in the community that i grew up in, customers feel like friends, neighbors and it makes it a little bit more special.

together, we're building a better california. great change comes from doing the right thing. like the radical idea that health isn't an industry. it's a cause. so we do things differently. we combine care and coverage. and believe prevention is the most powerful of cures. so forgive us for not going with the flow. we just think the flow should go with us. which makes us rebels with one cause. your health. i'm sick and tired of politicians talking and not getting things done. we need to lead the way here in virginia, and after the tragedy that we had down at smith mountain lake, after the tragedy we had at virginia tech, i took executive action and i banned every firearm in every state office building. >> wow. welcome back to "hardball."

that was terry mcauliffe at a rally late last month. he is barnstorming ahead of tomorrow's elections for state senate. democrats are trying to take the senate back from republicans. the race is expected to be close down there gun safety is a tough position to take to the state home to the national rifle association's national headquarters. he is a long-time supporter of the clintons. he headlines a hillary clinton rally last month in virginia after her marathon benghazi testimony. he thinks she has the right stuff. >> inside and out she knows the foreign policy. she should be president of the united states. you let the republicans keep doing what they are doing. they're entertaining to watch. i get a kick out of watching them. i don't learn anything about what they are doing to do for america. >> the trump campaign said they submitted enough signatures to qualify trump as the virginia primary ballot march 1st next year.

virginia will be pivotal. joining me is virginia governor terry mcauliffe. i'm impressed by your guts going at it for gun safety in the state that is virginia what's changed? why do people open their ears and hearts to the idea of bad people getting their fingers on guns? >> when i ran for governor this was a top tomorrowic for me. it's important. here in virginia we have one of the worst tragedies ever at virginia tech, 32 individuals were killed. 17 injured. we just had a tragedy, two journalists killed on live television. enough is enough. i'm tired of the politicians bought and paid for by the nra. it's time to stand up and do something about it. time to shut the gun show loophole down. time for background checks. i'm trying to do that to the legislature. make sure you vote tomorrow.

i need one seat to get control of the senate. we can pass common sense gun laws here in virginia. as you know, in virginia we are considered a sore state. we saw last year thousands of guns that were purchased in virginia went to other states and were involved in a crime. we need to shut it down. gun show loopholes need to be stopped. everybody should go through a background check. we need to make sure we get people elected to office who support these goals. common sense. >> how do you get the gun owner, the guy or woman who believes in the second amendment fully who does do hunting and loads their own shells and takes a real interest in it? how do you get that person to say, you know what? nuts and criminals shouldn't have guns? >> i think we're there. 85% of americans according to the pew research say we should have background checks. i'm a gun owner. i own three guns. i took my two boys hunting last weekend. i went through background checks. all we are trying to do is say issues with mental illness,

domestic abuse, there are individuals who should not own firearms. this is common sense. that's why i did an executive order. i banned all hand guns, no open carry in any of our state office buildings. we have 60,000 virginia state workers who go to our state office buildings every day. they need a safe environment. i took action. individuals in virginia today, if you have a protective order against you, you cannot purchase a firearm. guess what? you can still own one. i'm going to work with our attorney general to work with our prosecutors and judges to say no. if you've got a protective order, you can't buy one. if you've got one, you need to hand it in. this is common sense. this is why elections matter. that's why i need one vote. common sense trying to push the medicaid expansion. $2.4 billion a year forfeiting in virginia. >> that's a loss. good luck with that.

>> our economy is booming. when i became governor, i inherited a large deficit. we just turned that into the largest surplus in virginia history. our economy today, 4.3% unemployment. lowest in the southeast of the united states of america. we are creating jobs. i've been a voice day in and day out for common sense gun restrictions. i ran on this issue and brought it up last year. what happens in the legislature, 7:00 in the morning, no recorded vote, it dies in committee. i need one chamber to work with me to pass it and get leverage and get common sense things done. i'm trying to be a problem solver to move virginia forward. >> let me ask you about your state and its power in our country. it is a booming state. you probably watched that great documentary done on mitt romney after he lost. he looked good in that documentary. >> he did. >> he is watching election night and i'm even in virginia, i lost ohio.

i didn't think he was that shrewd to see the way statistical brought. if republicans can't get -- they need ohio to win. if they don't get virginia, they are not going to get ohio. does that make sense? your state is one of those keen deciding states. >> we are one of the five or six key swing states. republicans cannot win the white house if they don't win virginia. we are going to win virginia is a true swing state. hillary will be the next president of the united states. we are working very hard here why. common sense. virginia has always been a strategic state. when i ran for governor, i broke a three-decade trend. whoever wins the white house, the other party wins the governor's mansion. i carried in my lieutenant governor and attorney general. first in 24 years democrats swept. we control all five statewides. president obamacareied this state twice. the problem tomorrow is this is an off, off year that's why i'm

barnstorming the state to say you want common sense, pro growth, common sense gun restrictions, vote tomorrow. >> congratulations on that being pattern of buyer's remorse. it seems the year after a presidential election virginia goes the other way. governor terry mcauliffe, good luck tomorrow. hillary clinton, strong on gun safety. that is a rarity for one of the two party candidates. she is probably going to be -- she i the front-runner to win the nomination. to stick her neck out like that. there is no interest group out there, no pandering, that's sheer guts to come out for gun safety. >> well, there is the start of an interest group. the mayors against gun violence are growing, the mothers against gun violence are growing.

we are developing a large community, sad to say, of survivors of victims of violence in schools. >> will they be there election week when everybody is thinking about every other issue, will they be thinking about gun safety? >> they will. those parents are committed to trying to make change, especially the parents of the slain journalists in virginia made it very clear he wants to stay. >> what about bernie sanders? appeals to a lot of people who are young and progressive. they love the nostalgia of the '60s. what about him on guns? he says his defense for being so slow on guns is because he's from a rural state. is that a defense in the big debates coming between he and her? >> i think it's a fair argument for him to make. i'm from vermont and was just representing the views of my constituents, which is fine. it's not courageous. he will have to explain then when you get in the white house, who are you going to represent then?

are you going to be a gun safety rep or revert back to what you did when you were representing vermont? one of the reasons hillary clinton is raising this issue is because it's a clear distinction between her and bernie. who are you going to represent then? are you going to be a gun safety rep or revert back to what you did when you were representing vermont? one of the reasons hillary clinton is raising this issue is because it's a clear distinction between her and bernie. there aren't that many. >> you always want to go where the other person can't go. she is going there. it's nervy on her. thank you. ted cruz thinks the republican battle will come down to him and marco rubio. of course he does. a new poll shows rubio getting fast up in new hampshire as establishment candidate. got some birds and had some

got some birds and had some fun. no reporters were shot. it was a good day. >> that's funny, isn't it? no reporters were shot. welcome back to "hardball." that was ted cruz pheasant hunting continuing his jabs at the media.

an nbc news poll friday confirmed the consensus view last week that ted cruz along with his senate colleague marco rubio were the breakout stars of the third republican debate. a new poll out just today shows rubio received a bounce in the key first primary state of new hampshire. trump and carson still lead the pack, but marco rubio has now moved into a third place with 13 points, a significant number. a gain of nine points since september. rubio's gaining on the eastern side of the board and after receiving the backing of billionaire paul singer last week, rubio was today endorsed by colorado senator corey gardner. according to the "new york times," cruz is eyeing rubio as a long-term rival. "mr. cruz is privately telling colleagues that he believes the race for the party's nomination will boil down to a contest between himself and mr. rubio." their first term senators are

44-year-olds, cuban americans, but they represent different wings of the party. cruz is a conservative fire brand. joined by the "hardball" round table. this battle, i really do believe rubio has figured out a lot of things. how to raise money being a hawk. they are very hawkish. also he is the future. he challenges the age front. he's cute. i shouldn't put him down for being cute. better to be cute than not. everything he speaks seems to be large of a symphony of thought. it's lyrical. he knows how to talk.

is he the guy to watch? >> he is an extremely talented politician. both of them are very talented. the problem is -- >> who is likable? >> they are both likable. >> cruz is likable? come on now. there is a mutiny here. >> cruz is likable in a room with grassroots conservatives. he really knows how to fire them up like nobody else. he connects with them. rubio is good at that kind of retail politicking. he's very good at the one-on-one campaigning. >>es guy at that. >> do you find that, rubio is good out at the street, walking around door-to-door? >> what is striking when people listen to him. a lot of them don't know a whole lot about him. he's not the national figure. >> there is not a lot to know. >> he hasn't been around all that long on the national stage. he hasn't built --

>> it's not like you work your way up to it. >> he is not into the politics of provocation like cruz. he hasn't developed a large national following. when they listen to him, they say wow, he's very articulate. he has a lot of thought there. guess who else that reminds them of? a young first-term senator, very bright and articulate. for republicans, that is more of a problem. >> a lot of lift but not a lot of ballast. he is young, having trouble paying his bills. a lot of people can identify with that, not a presidential candidate. if you're republican like cruz or rubio, you're kissing off the northeast. i can't see pennsylvania, new jersey and new england states going for either of these guys?

they are not moderate enough. >> rubio gives the impression he could quote/unquote evolve. >> will he come back? >> i think he will continue to swing center. he's a dark horse general election candidate. the obama problem is not a problem in the sense he's got a great story to tell. >> i like the fact he talks about immigration. not because he is cuban american. he talks about e-verify, the need to enforce immigration rules. he doesn't just b.s. it. let people come in and become citizens. and regulate immigration like every other country. he talks about it like he knows what he is talking about. >> rubio has a history of compromising, not only with moderate republicans, but democrats. cruz, his whole brand is built on the fact he does not compromise.

>> even with his own leadership. >> that's where i think rubio could appeal in the northeast. >> donald trump tweeted with the skirmish between marco rubio and george bush. i told you jeb and marco do not like each other. marco is too ambitious and disloyal to jeb at his minuter. marco rubio will not win weak on i'll lem immigration, strong on amnesty. has the appearance to killers of the world as a light weight. jesus. in an interview earlier today on bloomberg, "with all due respect -- let's watch. >> he was a member of the gang of eight, which basically wanted to have everybody come in and take over our country. all of a sudden he went down in the polls and changed and got out. he is totally driven by what the public thinks. bush got creamed in the debate. but if i were the messenger, because the message is great. his delivery was poor.

the message is great. marco doesn't show up to votes. he doesn't do things you're supposed to do. i think he is a highly overrated person. i called him a light weight. i hope i'm wrong about that. i watched somebody on joe's show this morning and he's fawning over him. how handsome he is. i don't know. i think i'm better looking than he is. am i better looking? another thing i don't like about him. he should have been more loyal to bush. he was very,ing very disloyal to bush. i don't like that. >> this guy lives off the land. he reads the paper every day. what dirt he can do. he's disloyal to bush. i'll stick that to him. he can't pay his bills. what point do people want to now if the guy's got a good credit rating? if you are hiring somebody, don't you want to know a couple of things, credit rating, they pay their bills, and two, do they show up for work?

if both are no, don't they become relevant as you get closer to picking a nominee? >> that's the attacks on his personal finance. >> you are good at this. >> "the times." i put more on jeb bush. they have been pushing this a lot. they've been pushing the voting record. if they can make him look like he is too ambitious, too much of a guy in a hurry, can't be bothered to show up for the day job, he'll look unserious. let's remember, they used that same argument against a lot of other people, republican and democrat. john mccain, barack obama. all these senators who have run for office. >> just the not showing up. >> marco rubio's people believe they are in strong position to ride this out. people hate washington. >> anything bad looks good. >> the round table is sticking with me. up next, these three are going to tell me something i don't know. beginning with michelle here. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

michelle, tell me something i don't know. >> so the fight, red state versus blue state feminist is

back in full form. friday, carly fiorina will go back to "the view." the last week the ladies of "the view" noted her face in their opinion looked demented after the last cnbc debate. she struck back and said there is nothing more scary to the liberal media than a conservative woman. she failed to note she made fun of barbara boxer's hair in 2010. friday she will have explaining to do. >> to take on boxer would be a challenge. she lost to boxer. yes. >> marco rubio, who has taken a lot of heat over the course of his career for intermingling his personal finances with state party finances back in florida -- >> it's called mixing. >> expect more of that to come back up. >> thanks to "the times." >> no. i think thanks to his political opponents. >> that is the mother load of news coming. >> we all know there is this intense competition between jeb bush and marco rubio playing out

for the donors. so what we do know that, but what we don't know is that the jeb supporters are putting out the word that people shouldn't flock toward rubio because of his position on abortion. rubio takes a farther right position than abortion than jeb. >> how far can you go, no exceptions? >> no exceptions. >> if he is taking a position like that, he will have a hard time running on that against hillary clinton. >> i think the donors' wives will be careful. you gave millions to who? thank you. "the hardball" round table. the social issues are very important to donors, too. one of hollywood's most iconic actors and no stranger to history or politics. robert redford will be here to discuss his famous role as a famous journalist. ill? or stop to find ill? a bathroom?

cialis for daily use, is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30-tablet trial. carnie wilson. thank you. can you hold on? ♪ hold on for one more day

really? hey, i know there's pain. why do you lock yourself up in these chains? ♪ this would be so easy if you had progressive. our mobile app would let you file a claim and help you find one of our service centers where we manage the entire repair process. things will go your way if you hold on. [ sighs ] someday somebody's gonna make you wanna turn around and say goodbye. ♪ say goodbye no, you just made it weird. former u.s. senator fred thompson died sunday in tennessee after recurrence with lymphoma. he was selected republican council in the senate watergate committee where he made a name for himself. thompson popped the question about a white house taping system. decades later he won the tennessee senate seat himself, vacated by al gore. would eventually run for the republican nomination in the 2008 presidential campaign. thompson made a name for himself outside of politics appearing in more than 20 feature films like "the hunt for red october."

and as a tough manhattan district attorney on the nbc show "law and order." fred thompson was 73 years old.

we are back. renowned actor robert redford is famous for movies he starred in about politics. his character challenges the political establishment. another about investigative journalism in "all the president's men" or a movie about broadcast journalism with "up close and personal."

now he is starring in a new film about a crisis in journalism and the movie is called "truth" the firestorm about the 2004 cbs "60 minutes" report about george w. bush's service records in the texas air national guard. several producers and executives at cbs lost their job because of that report including the evening news anchor dan rather. robert redford plays rather in the film. >> andrew, i need him. >> you're not taking him. >> you say that, but here i am. >> you got him? >> stash in a hotel two blocks up. >> you can't leave your own party. i've got 50 affiliates and their wives waiting to talk with you. >> you want to finish this off. i already had three. >> this is dan rather. >> gin. >> sir. >> thank you for doing this.

>> robert redford joins me now. robert, thanks so much for joining us tonight live. what made you want to get into this, talk about a hot issue. it's the end of dan rather who is a friend of mine and i like to think you are, too. talk about controversy, the media the war we are with the fight over the debates and the moderators. you are in the middle of a stew right now. your thoughts. >> well right in the middle of the stew, well i don't think i'm in the middle of the stew going on politically right now. for me, this is a personal opinion, it feels like loony tunes and note-so-merry melodies. to me it's depressing in terms of what we could be hearing and aren't. >> what about the movie? i'm talking about what happened with dan rather. at the heart of it is an investigative report on george bush's air national guard story which is a hell of a good story. did he show up? was he given special treatment? these are all good questions. but then the whole thing came

down to the documents. i've already had three. >> general, this is dan rather. >> did you for doing this. let's start from -- a story that i don't think ever got fully told. it was an open and shut case. it popped up and went back down again so fast you wondered, well, wait a minute, wasn't there more to this? we never knew until now. so i think what the film does or tries to do is to open it up to look at what the full story was and let the audience decide for themselves how they feel about it. >> how do you think rather comes off? >> as me playing him or dan himself? >> no, you're great. in fact, you've opened the door to my applause now. i think you really caught him, his formality, his good old boy -- his texas thing combined with

his formality the way he's a bit awkward personally. he's a good guy. i think you captured all of that. and so did cate -- she's just charismatic. that's all. the way she played it. but really got rather -- >> cate can do anything. >> yeah. >> thank you. it was not an easy -- it was a challenge for me as an actor. but i enjoyed that because i had to play somebody that was very well known on a nightly basis and everybody knew what he looked like. and if i was going to play him i couldn't -- if i mimicked him that would be a caricature of him and that would be terrible. on the other hand, how to get an essence of a guy, and you hit some of the points, chris. he's very polite, he's very -- he's -- he has a genuine compassionate exterior. but what i found out, what sat underneath that was a tremendous kind of a wolf desire to get to the truth. and so that dichotomy is what

interested me. >> i look at all your movies and you're going -- the series about winners. and "the candidate" being one of them. "the candidate" i still think is the best political movie. i've seen them all. investigative reporting, you have the fabulous woodward-bernstein team. you captured the excitement and the honesty of those guys, the courage to take on a presidency and all his men and to have them do it just as two young guys. you really do find the romance in politics and in journalism and especially when they clash, like this movie shows. >> well, that's because -- that's because what i'm most interested in is the characters themselves. with woodward and bernstein, when i went into that, and i spent four years working on that project, there was a similarity by the way with what's happening with rather and mary mapes and woodward and bernstein, there's a difference because with woodward and bernstein they were going after the truth, they were

digging in to get to the truth against the odds of an administration that did not want that revealed. >> yeah. >> but they had the support today p their bosses. they had kay graham and ben bradley. they had their support. in this situation you had rather and mapes trying to do the very same thing, but in the end they did not have the support of their bosses because you look at the picture then you get into the whole thing about the conjunction between corporations, media and journalism. and i remember -- boy, i'll tell you. i'm a big devotee of honest good news. and i remember there was a time, and i think the film says this. there was a time when the news was sacrosanct. there was -- that's what it was. entertainment had its area and the news had its area. it was sacrosanct. slowly what happens, entertainment at some point begins to creep into the news and to change the dynamic.

i think that's kind of sad because i think news is vitally important. >> yeah. i think you're right about the feature pieces they do. by the way, i've never told you this but i've got to tell you-i was in the peace corps on my way home from two years in africa. i go to mombasa in kenya and i go to see "butch cassidy and the sundance kid." i thought i had come home. that was america. you know, the country had changed in two years, and that movie was such a cultural iconic piece. number two, a little more applause here for robert redford. i think "quiz show" is one of the best movies ever made. and you made it. that movie is perfect. >> thank you. >> and it gets better every time i see it. robert redford's done it again with "truth." thank you so much for coming on the show tonight. and it's in theaters right now. and we'll be right back. >> thank you, chris. sure, tv has evolved over the years.

it's gotten squarer. brighter. bigger. thinner. even curvier.

but what's next? for all binge watchers. movie geeks. sports freaks. x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. let me finish tonight with this. for a good many months i've criticized the republican party for trying to stop people from voting who they assume will vote for the democratic candidates. it's gotten to be pretty clear that the party's efforts in legislatures across the country setting tougher requirements for voting such as government-issued i.d. cards is limiting minorities, young and old people, from the voting booth. more recently the republican party officialdom have tried to control the electoral process in another way, hugging control of

the debates under the leadership of party chairman reince priebus, the same man who has overseen the voter suppression effort, the goal has been to ensure that only the media organizations the party prefers should be keeping order and asking questions at republican presidential debates. well, the reason for this, which the party has admitted, is to avoid having uncomfortable questions being asked, questions like do you believe in evolution. whatever. the fact is and the republican leader has asserted it is a fact that there will be no such questions about science, no hands up if you agree questions asked period. that's the way they want it. now the question at the table is whether the republicans should be allowed to only ask themselves questions by people they believe are at least as conservative as the most conservative among them. this is what one candidate said. ted cruz is proposing the three moderators be rush him baugh, mark levin, and sean hannity. that would be fun, wouldn't it? but what happens when you have only the voters you want voting, white, middle-aged and minimally well off, when you have debates run only by the party itself, all topics safely predictable,

and even have the questions all coming from people guaranteed to have opinions on the outside rail of republican thinking. who do you blame defeat on then? that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> i think the rnc has some cleaning up to do. >> mutiny in the republican party. as candidates band together to seize power from the rnc. but now is donald trump going rogue? >> when i went on, i got these ratings. and i can understand why they asked me more questions, frankly. >> reporter: then paul krugman is here to break down the great economic myth republican candidates are trying to sell. plus, president obama announces another change, helping former prisoners find jobs. >> we can't dismiss people out of hand simply because of a mistake that they made in the past. >> and paul ryan's first full day as speaker. while vowing to block