or twitter or television or talk radio there was rallying based on the fact that the story had been overplayed to begin with. you have the risk that the revelations about things he may have exaggerated get tied up into the media attacking unfairly. >> i have to leave it there. good to see you. what a friday. we'll be back monday with more. if it's sunday don't miss it. it's meet the press, one year from election day. stay with msnbc for the first in south democratic candidates forum which starts at 8 p.m. chris matthews picks up coverage with a special edition of "hardball" live from south carolina right now. >> hillary's weekend with bernie. let's play "hardball."

good evening. i'm chris matthews on the campus for the first in the south democratic candidates forum. tonight we hear from the three candidates in the democratic race, hillary clinton, bernie sanders and martin o'malley. let's be clear about this. the democratic coomb bayeah is go. hillary clinton has sharpened her attack on bernie sanders in recent days. sanders pressed to defend his gun control record saying that all the shouting in the world isn't going to fix the problem. well, hillary clinton seized on those comments. here she is. >> i have been told to stop, and i quote, shouting about gun violence. well, first of all, i'm not

shouti shouting. it's just when women talk some people think we are shouting. [ applause ] sometimes when a woman talks some people think it's shouting [ cheers and applause ] but i won't be silenced and i hope you won't be either. i have been told to stop shotting about ending gun violence. i haven't been shouting. sometimes when a woman speaks out some people think it's shouting. [ cheers and applause ] but i won't be silenced and i hope you won't be either. how many more people have to die before we take action? i have been told to stop shouting about gun violence, but i won't be silenced and i hope you won't either. sanders has responded with an assault of his own. he is now saying there are valid

questions about hillary clinton's e-mails. he told the "boston globe" that i agree with hillary clinton on virtually everything. he took a swipe at the iraq war vote. you asked about the differences between hillary clinton and myself, i have taken tough votes throughout my entire life. he is going after clinton's consistency saying it does speak to the character of a person and here is what his campaign had to say about the shouting match. if they are going to have a campaign that attacks bernie on gun safety and implies he engages in sexism that's unacceptable. we're not going to stand for that. u.s. congress woman debbie wassermann schultz, and howard dean was dnc chair and in 2004 a presidential candidate. he has a hat trick going for him. let me go with congress woman.

this campaign began it seemed with bernie sanders saying i'm n not bringing up the e-mail issue. >> if you have watched the republicans engage in the massive food fight that every single debate has been and really the whole campaign has been not about substance, hurling insults at one another -- the contrast with our candidates, hillary clinton, bernie sanders, martin o'malley -- >> is it hotter between hillary and bernie? >> hot is defined by talking about their differences on substantive issues, on their approach to the same goal which is that all three of our candidates want to make sure you can build the cornerstones of a middle class life and have a good job that pays well, a roof over your head, access to health care and make sure you have a

secure retirement. >> i know what you have to do. you have to keep peace. it's not peace. let me go to don. first of all, we aren't supposed to talk about the damn e-mails next he is talking about the e-mails. she says he has accused -- let me get this straight. she accused him of sexism by saying she was shouting. >> that's mild compared to what the republicans are saying. >> this is a democratic forum here tonight. let's talk about the democrats. >> we learn from each other and we vote the best person on the issues, on character and we have the three best people on the issues and character. >> is this campaign getting hotter or not? >> mildly so. i have to say i'm with the others.

it's pretty mild. i i think don and debbie are right. it is mild compared to republicans. you are going to have differences. i'm for hillary and i like both candidates a lot and i think they are doing a lot for the country. i think a lot of this is a bit of hype for cable to be truthful about it and i'm on cable. >> what are you appearing on now? >> msnbc. >> don't bite the hand that feeds you. yesterday in new hampshire bernie sanders filed his paperwork to get on the primary ballot as a democrat. let's watch. >> i am the longest serving independent in the history of the united states congress. that's how the people of vermont sent me to washington. i have to make a decision six months ago, do i run as a democrat or do i run as independent. i made that decision. i am running as a democrat, obviously. i am a democrat now.

>> by the way, we will have a simultaneous translation for south carolina. yes, yes, yes. i am going to do this. let me ask you about this question of party label. i have unleashed. is bernie sanders a democrat or independent? it's one or the other? you are either democrat or independent. is he a member of your party? >> yes. bernie sanders declared to new hampshire democratic party when he signed up to be on the ballot that he is running as a democrat. >> he is a democrat. say bernie sanders is a democrat. >> in our view and my definition of a democrat bernie sanders is a democrat. >> say bernie sanders is a democrat. >> bernie sanders is a democrat,

no question. >> substance is more important than the label. >> bernie sanders is a democrat. just say bernie sanders is a democrat. >> bernie sanders is a democrat. >> governor dean who knows bernie sanders as member of the independent socialist tradition, can you repeat the phrase bernie sanders is a democrat? >> i don't plan to do that. i think bernie is doing a big favor by running as a democrat. the reason i think he is doing a big favor is because if he were to run as independent he would take votes away from our nominee if it is not him. he has said he does not intend to do anything to help a right wing republican become the next president of the united states. >> why do you differ from saying bernie sanders is a democrat? >> i don't demur from saying that. i didn't come on the show to repeat slogans. bernie sanders -- >> it's not a slogan. it's a statement of fact. to what holds you back,

vermonter, from saying your fellow vermonter is a fellow democrat? what is so hard about that? >> i know what the system is here. you identify yourself as a democrat on primary day which is fine with me. there is no party registration in the state of vermont and so if you want to -- if you want to vote in the democratic primary you ask for a democratic ballot and that makes you a democrat. i think bernie has probably voted for democrats in the past so that makes him a democrat. >> it seems there is a problem if you support a guy to be your party nominee -- you support hillary clinton. it does seem a problem to say i want him to be the democratic nominee for president and then at what point does he say a member of the party that nominated me. you say he can't do that. >> he certainly can say he is a democrat. we do it on the day of voting. and he just did.

when he went into new hampshire he said he is a democrat and that is good enough for me. >> we are not getting anywhere with you on this. this is just cable, by the way, as you pointed out. the democratic base had a dose of good news after the president announced he rejected the keystone pipeline. hillary clinton announced her opposition to the pipeline. i'm talking as slow as carson here. tonight sanders took a swipe at clinton's timing saying as someone who has led the opposition to the keystone pipeline i strongly applaud the president's decision to kill this project once and for all. why did it take this administration so long? why was hillary clinton so far ahead of it and bernie so far ahead of her? >> well -- >> they all do the same issue. >> it was the smart thing for the administration to take their time and make sure they did an overarching thorough review because when they made their recommendation to reject it it

has much more credibility backed up with a lot more facts. at the end of the day climate change is a real thing. >> you think we shouldn't do the keystone? >> i don't think we should do the keystone. >> you agree on that? do you agree on that as democrats? >> i don't have a position one way or the other. i think the keystone was an interesting fight about the environment, the real intentions to keep oil in the ground inted of bring it out. that was really, i think that is what this is about. >> we have to broaden out energy options. >> are you against keystone? >> i think the president considered very carefully and the state department all of the factors and arrived at the right decision that is good for america, good for our future, good for the environment and good for the economy. that was the right decision, yes. >> thank you all. it's a hot night. we'll see what happens tonight.

thank you congress woman debbie wassermann schultz. the first in the south democratic candidates forum is coming up tonight at 8 eastern. troubles in republican land including new questions of ben carson's background and bush 41 speaking out against cheney and rumsfeld. this is "hardball," the place for politics. i think my boys have a shot this year. yeah, especially with this new offense we're running... i mean, our running back is a beast. once he hits the hole and breaks through the secondary, oh he's gone. and our linebackers and dbs dish out punishment, and never quit. ♪ you didn't expect this did you? no i didn't. the nissan altima. there's a fun side to every drive. nissan. innovation that excites. prge! a manufacturer.

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♪ welcome back to "hardball." site of tonight's democratic candidates forum here on msnbc. republicans are dealing with a war as two different books are out causing problems for two different gop presidential candidates. let's start with dr. ben carson. politico reported questions about dr. ben carson's claims of having been offered a scholarship from u.s. military academy. dr. carson wrote sergeant hunt introduced me to general westmoreland and i had dinner with him. later i was offered a full scholarship. i didn't refuse the scholarship but i let them know that a military career wasn't where i saw myself going. as overjoyed as i felt to be

offered a scholarship i wasn't tempted. it has been a part of carson's narrative and today his campaign issued the isstatement. he was introduced to folks from west point by his rotc supervisors who told him they could help him get an appointment. i would argue it is amazing scholarship. dr. carson did not seek admission. with me casie hunt and steve kornacki as well as joan walsh. steve, most people if you told them i was offered full scholarship that you were offered admission to west point. he is saying i wasn't offered admission. a general said i can try to get you in. i think i can do it. that is different. >> he is saying somebody in position to get me nominated to

west point. not appointed. you also have the difference between the term scholarship and appointment. >> everybody goes free. go ahead. >> my point on this one is simple. when i saw the headline this morning i read the first two paragraphs i thought ben carson's campaign was sunk. at the end of the day when i heard the explanation i think they have potential to turn it into the liberal media. there is a guy in position to get me nominated. >> but you have to get accepted by west point. >> if you are somebody with the credentials ben carson had from rotc days in detroit it is not implausible. >> he offered a scholarship to west point? >> scholarship is not the right word. >> offered admission? i'm asking you a question. let's start with the facts. i don't care about the dribble words and weasel words.

simple question. did he get an appointment to a service academy? >> it seems as though west point would have a record of him being appointed. >> he wasn't appointed cht what are we talking about here? >> he is saying i did not apply. >> he said he was offered admission. was he offered admission? >> he didn't apply. >> was he offered admission? >> no. >> that's what i'm asking. >> he was not offered admission. and then there is also westmoreland does appeared from the story and now just rotc officer. i think politico has edited the story a little bit and taken out the way he has turned this to his advantage is that politico said he admitted that he had fabricated the story. well, it is a little more complicated than that.

the right wing media on twitter -- >> on the fact that you got into west point and comes out you didn't get into west point. you were offered had-- >> if you were a normal person trying to get into college. tom izzo, the coach at michigan state says we will give you a full ride and you say i want to go to yale to play basketball at yale. how do you characterize the story? is it correct to say i was offered full admission? >> there are objective rules about the service academy. the air force academy. you have to be appointed. you have to be naupinated and accepted. was he nominated? no. did someone nominate him? no. was he accepted and get an appointment? no. all we know there is a conversation in which someone

said to him and publishing as if it was real that some guy said i think i can get you in. that is different. anybody who heard that would assume thatify is really smart. he turned down west point. >> i think the question here is are there more stories in this book that people are going to start to check out. >> i do want to break this down. you said any normal person is going to understand this. we are talking about the republican base. they have done something incredibly skillful. they turned this into politico making this and now turn it into a liberal media hit on ben carson -- >> they can say it all they want. anybody who heard this would say he is smart. in another book former president bush 41 indicts many of his son's closest advisers. the elder bush described dick

cheney by saying he became hard lined and different from the dick cheney i worked with, just hard ass. jeb bush offered his response to his own, our own casie hunt. >> my brother is a big boy. his administration was shaped by his thinking, his reaction to the attack of 9/11. i think my dad like a lot of people that love george want to try to create a different narrative perhaps just because that is natural to do. but george would say this was under my watch, i was commander in chief. as it relates to dick cheney he served my brother well as vice president and he served my dad well as secretary of defense. >> ever since we got into the road to the war in 2001 it was very clear because spoke out and tim baker didn't. the word was out that a bush did

not see this as a way for us to go. it took all these years from 2001 all the way to 2015. 14 years later for the old man to say my kid was wrong. he had bad influence around him. and the whole scrum around him and my son was taken in by it. >> it didn't take him as long as it seems to. >> when did he say this? >> 2008, 2009. in the series of interviews for this biography. he said he actually looked at h.w. bush and said are you sure you don't want to revise and extend these remarks and h.w. said i stand by this. this is clearly something that has been a simmering difference for years. the difference is it stayed out of the spot light. this has had the effect of potentially damaging. >> you and i have been involved in this fight for all of these years and we said he is like

king richard the lionhearted. he is going to duke it out and he is the good guy on this one. >> this is so sad because what jeb is doing is siding with his brother over his father. the conversation tugs at my heart strings because he is forced to say his father is basically wrong and his brother did have the iron hand and dick cheney was a great guy. who also bothers me is rumsfeld. why did he have to slap him. >> basically said the guy lost it. >> that rivalry, the bush sr. >> he put him over at cia to get him out of the business. >> fast forward to 2000. >> who is the one guy he didn't want? >> rumsfeld. >> a double downer for cheney. thank you. >> steve kornacki, good

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we have heard mr. trump insult and demean women. by the way, donald, when you say you cherish women, that really doesn't make it any better. why don't you stop cherishing women and start respecting women? but listen closely, he's not the only one. all of the republican candidates want to defund planned parenthood. >> welcome back to "hardball" live show for tonight's democratic candidates forum here. that was hillary clinton slamming donald trump on women's issues just in september. now she is using trump to contrast bernie sanders. here is what she said about sanders plan to make college tuition free. >> i do have a somewhat different approach than i think

my two friends who are in the democratic primary with me. i am not going to provide aid for donald trump's kids. i'm not going to make it free for people who should be able to pay for it. >> sanders campaign manager addressed concerns saying if they unleashed david brock and used superpac on a candidate that doesn't have a superpac we will have to figure out what to do. i am joined by david brock, clinton supporter and chairman of correct the record. how do you like your name being mentioned in a menacing fashion by the opposition? your thoughts. >> we haven't laid a glove on? er sanders. remember that article, the really thing that coverage from that article was this boast that they were going to maybe consider hillary as vice president and they were

personally going to vet her. people creating problems for senator sanders look at handlers of senator sanders. we are focussed on the republican field, benghazi committee, positive aspects of hillary's record. she is up in the polls in new hampshire, iowa, south carolina, voters stop to see her directly in the debate. they like what they see. >> what do you make of the 27%? how could you recommend her to try to get the number higher on trust worthiness from 27% in the nbc wall street journal poll? >> i think there are two parts to this. one, democrats trust hillary clinton. she is not in difference with bernie sanders in the democratic primary. senator sanders did the decent think in the first debate. >> he put it back on. >> he tried to.

he took it off and put it back on. >> it was shot down by the highest authority intelligence community saying the e-mails were not classified. the campaign is zigging and zagging. we don't have a plan to go negative. let me go back to the trust issue. kevin mccarthy told us the republican strategy was to use benghazi and e-mails to show hillary as untrustable. this is a republican strategy. as independents get to see hillary clinton as this goes on they will end up trusting her. trusting her with their futures. that is the important thing in contrast with this republican field. >> bernie sanders joining with that by saying these investigations should continue. he is taking an interest in the fbi investigations and perhaps even the committee in the house which he noted being rather partisan. >> he started out saying he was not going to negatively campaign.

and in the interview with the wall street journal had negativity in it. after looking at this agreed with the state department that the e-mails in question were not classified at the time. so between that and what we saw in the benghazi committee where it was obvious they have nothing doesn't mean they will trop it. this issue has been put to bed and page has been turned on it. >> i got to ask you to join me in something. you are a good guy. when you find that a candidate said that he had been offered a full scholarship to a service academy, in this case west point and turns out all he did was have conversation with the head of rotc who said i think i can get you in would you call that stretching of truth? >> that is misleading at best in what he said in that book. >> thank you so much.

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i saw yo alive tweet from the republican debate. is that a fun thing for you to do? >> well, it is a combination of

being appalled and being amused. >> do you feel at all sorry for jeb bush? >> he's a very accomplished man. he is out there making his case. running for president is really hard. let me break that to you, it's really hard. south carolina, tonight's democratic candidates forum here on msnbc. hillary clinton is the definite u front runner. the latest poll has her up by 31 points over bernie sanders nationally. a nonew orc poll clinton leads sanders by 15. sanders seems to be responding by upping his attack on clinton. he told the "boston globe"

editorial board i disagree with hillary clinton on virtually everything. what is important to look at her record and his record, the track record that hillary clinton has had for her long and distinguished career as a public official official. i have to go to jeff on that. there you are. is your guy going to get hot and heavy in this campaign? it was handshaking, we are not going to talk e-mail. next thing you know we are talking e-mail. >> we spent the summer introducing the senator to america. now we are in the fall and it is coming up to election time and people want to know where the differences are. >> did larry sanders kill him? >> i love larry sanders. >> larry david. >> larry sanders is his brother. >> i love larry david, as well.

he didn't kill him at all. >> was that a mistake? >> absolutely not. >> walked off the stage that night and talked to chris cuomo and said the campaign discussion should not be dominated by e-mails but investigation should go forward. also is jim hodges, a clinton supporter, liz smith, deputy campaign manager for martin o'malley. the governor is on the phone. hillary clinton, is she going to do well down here? >> she is going to do well down here. the campaign is doing terrific. we had a poll that showed her up. she has great ideas, focussed on issues like wage growth and people talk about every night around the dinner table. >> how about this -- only 27% trust her. >> she has been coming to south

carolina. >> answer that question. >> i'm trying to say that she has been coming here every 30 years. we have developed a relationship with hillary clinton and seen the things she has done. i have seen the way she has taken care of kids over the years both here in south carolina with the children's defense fund and service in congress. i see no concerns about her trust worthiness. >> why is south carolina different from the rest of the country? >> south carolina is very important in the democratic primary because we have a large african-american constituency. my point is that they see hillary clinton and they trust and believe in her and are strongly behind her here. i see that every day. the volunteers -- >> what are the chances of these democrats carrying south carolina? >> hillary clinton 100%. >> you have martin o'malley to

try to catch up to these other guys. >> you are from maryland and the mascot for university of maryland is a turtle. we have a saying on our campaign motto which is fear the turtle. our goal is to be the tortoise and not the hare. >> so this is a fable. >> it's a metaphor. there are a lot of fabulous things in politics. people often winning in november don't win the caucus. >> a lot of times people leading in the fall lead in the spring and summer. i'm just teasing. on the issue of guns martin o'malley seemed to take a step promising executive action to undo the law [ inaudible ] when one of the guns issued the shooting. on his website o'malley stated will stop enforcing the protection of lawful commerce in

arms act of 2005 which protects irresponsible gun dealers and manufacturers from lawsuits giving blanket immunity. >> one of the reasons he is talking about these bold executive actions is because if congress isn't going to act and take up things like common sense things like background checks the president needs to use the power of the presidency to get things done. >> jeff, you are not big on gun control. >> we are big on gun control. >> bernie sanders voted for the assault weapons band. >> he is a vermonter. what is the attitude in vermont towards guns? >> they want responsible gun control. look at the polls. they want background checks. if you look at an ad in iowa. >> bernie sanders do what martin

o'malley promised to do? would he do? >> i don't know what he is promising. >> let her help you understand it. >> stop defending the law that gives blanket immunity to gun dealers -- >> i don't think anybody is challenging -- >> specialize in selling guns only used in crappy criminal activity. >> we would be opposed to them doing that. >> would you make the manufacturers responsible for the use of the guns? >> yes. >> we are making news. >> if a manufacturer is making a product knowing it will -- >> knowing the only use you would have. >> let me ask you about hillary clinton. we had an interesting fight down here about seven or eight years ago. bill clinton got in all kinds of trouble for saying this guy barack obama wasn't such a big

deal. how do we get over that? >> chris, i was a co-chair of the obama campaign. >> you were on the good guy side. >> now i'm a leader of the clinton campaign. >> barack obama was running this time would you back him or hillary? >> i think barack obama is not running again. >> i don't think hillary clinton would be running if barack obama were running. >> you are a politician. >> she became a key member of the obama team after that election, worked hard and served admirbly in his administration. >> when you look at the economic numbers tonight, 300,000 new jobs, good job number down at 5%. back up to 18,000. will hillary clinton run on the obama economic growth? >> democrats are good for the economy. we are seeing proof -- >> obama has been good for the

economy. >> this is good for all democrats. >> will hillary run on the obama record? >> i think she will. >> will your guy run the obama record? >> undoing the republican disaster absolutely. >> what is a socialist? in real terms. i'm not knocking it. what does it mean if a guy says i'm a socialist? i'm from pluto. tell me what a socialist is? >> a democratic socialist is someone who believes the need for ordinary people should come ahead of big money and big corporations. >> how is that different than hillary clinton? >> ooeng if one important point when democrats vote in november 2016 we want to pit our ideas --

we don't need to be debating what a socialist is. this is a process. it's democracy in action. now i'm getting repeat here. thank you. up next -- [ inaudible ] this is "hardball," place for politics live from south carolina. 3w4r57

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♪ ♪ we are back here. two people who know south carolina politics better than anyone, chair of the state's democratic party. with him jamie harris. south carolina holds the primary aprimary after iowa. and a new poll of south carolina democrats shows hillary clinton

is an overwhelming favorite, 71%. only 15% support bernie sanders. her support is bigger among african-americans in the state at 80% versus 8%. congressman, i have known you a long time. it does seem like mrs. clinton -- >> at the moment it is. no question about that. i i think everybody knows very well that hillary clinton coming out of arkansas, having been the first lady of arkansas for so many years, first lady of the united states of america, secretary of state having run in this state back in 2008. she knows south carolina very well. south carolinaens know her very well. of course, what i think my good friend bernie sanders as well as o'malley, they were up against history as much as she was back

in 2008. >> we are going to take a break. let's look at florida. we have a trans mig here where doctor ben carson is taking questions. >> if you look at one of the websites that west point has today it says government offer full scholarship to west point. they use that very language themselves. almost 50 years ago they may have been using that language, as well. >> do you need to apply? >> they had impressed. the city executive officer in less time than anybody else had done that. and they were saying you would be a tremendous addition to the military and we can get you into west point with a full scholarship. and i simply said i want to be a

doctor. i really appreciate it. i'm very flattered and i moved on. it didn't go any further than that. >> to what extent do you think it adds relevance? >> i don't think it is relevant at all. what it shows is that there is a desperation of behalf of some to try to find a way to tarnish me because they have been looking through everything. they have been talking to evd a. it has to be a scandal or something. they are getting desperate. next week it will be my kindergarten teacher who said i peed in my pants. it is ridiculous. it's okay because i totally expect it. >> verify your meeting with general westmoreland. >> i was invited to a number of

events because of my position. there was -- this is almost 50 years ago. but there was a lot of excitement about some congressional medal of honor winners, at least one of which was from detroit. there was a big affair that i was invited to. and that's the one that where i had an opportunity to meet the general. and that was also a time as i recall that several others tell me i would be somebody they would be interested in in the military. >> being actually offered a scholarship, having someone say we can get you in with a scholarship doesn't mean you have been given a scholarship. >> it was an offer to me. i interpreted it as an offer. i made it very clear.

>> who? >> i don't remember the names of the people. it's almost 50 years ago. i bet you don't remember the people you talked to 50 years ago. anyway, they tell me this was available to me because of my accomplishments and that they would be delighted for me to do it and i told them immediately that my intention was to become a physician. it always has been and i was very honored but i would not be pursuing that. i made it very clear in my book that i only applied to one college. i only had enough money to apply to one college and i decided to apply to the college that won the great championship and that was between harvard and yale. you can find records and see it was between harvard and yale and yale demolished harvard. probably anybody associated with harvard wouldn't want you to find those records but it's

there. >> to those who say you may have exaggerated and are using that, what would you say to those people? >> i would say where is the exaggeration? >> one said this is the beginning of the end. how do you think this will effect you? >> you said the key word there, opponent. what do you expect them to say? >> intimated we would get more details about your childhood friends that you were involved in violence with potentially revealing bob or jerry. are we going to get their identity? >> if you want to find their identity let me tell you where you probably should go. you should go to the place where it happened. wilson junior high school in detroit is where the lock incident occurred. maybe they have the records. it was 51, 52 years ago, but maybe they still have them.

>> and other incidents, too? >> which other? >> with your mother and bob and jerry. >> well, incident with my mother, she and my brother were the only people who were there. >> you mentioned you had a recollection when questions were asked says i don't remember these incidents. >> why would they remember them? as a scientist who does investigations that is the most lame investigation i have ever seen where you get people and you find people that random people in the neighborhood who knew me. you must know about that specific incident. what a bunch of garbage. the only people who would know about that would be the people involved. let me finish. you would need to talk to the

people who are involved in the incident. now, i have said if they wish to come forward and have a barrage of media, they are welcome to do so. i in no way discourage them or encourage them to do that. that's a choice that is up to them. it would be very unfair -- >> complication that this is causing. >> i don't think it is causing a complication. here is my prediction. my prediction is that all of you guys trying to pile on is actually going to help me because when i go out to book signings and see these thousands of people and they say don't let the media get you down. don't let them disturb you. please continue to fight for us. they understand that this is a witch hunt. this gentleman here. >> how long do you think you can rely on that support? maybe through the primary but at some point you have to --

>> that is exactly what i'm trying to do, get to the substantive issues. things that happen 45, 50 years ago, that is all -- as far as i'm concerned they are out of the way. and let me just say one other thing. i do not remember this level of scrutiny for one president barack obama when he was running. in fact, i remember just the opposite. i remember people just we won't talk about that. we won't talk about that relationship. we don't want to talk about that. he didn't really know him. all the things that jeremiah wright was saying. and somehow ends up at columbia university. records are sealed.

why are his records sealed. why are you not interested in why his records are sealed? tell me why. >> why do you think they are? >> i'm asking you why it is sealed. i'm asking you will someone tell me, please why you have not investigated that? i want to know. >> why are you raising it? >> because i want to know. you should want to know, too. hold on one minute, one second here. you are saying that something that happened with the words scholarship was offered is a big deal but president of the united states his academic record being sealed -- tell me how there is equivalency there. get to the silly argument. tell me how there is equivalency there. tell me somebody, please. because you see what you are not

going to find with me is somebody who is just going to sit back and let you be completely unfair without letting the american people know what is going on. the american people are waking up to your games. >> dr. carson, do you think that it would have been this level of scrutiny about your so-called violent past if you hadn't brought it up yourself? like if they had found this information out beforehand, before you disclosed it do you think you would be treated the same? >> let me put it this way. if everybody here will sign an affidavit saying that if i reveal the name of the person involved in this stabbing incident that you will be singing my praises and none of this stuff will ever go on again i will think about it will you do that? yes? yes? >> our job is to ask questions.

>> my job is to call you out when you are unfair. and i'm going to continue to do that. >> what is just the one thing? what about the west point thing is false? what is false about it? >> is everything else -- >> as far as i know it is accurate, yes. >> dr. carson -- >> donald trump has said he tweeted out very soon after this came out that this is one of many lies of dr. ben carson and it is a big story. gl what would you expect donald trump to say as somebody running neck and neck with him. what would you expect him to say? >> for someone to say it is dishonest. seems reports say you said you received a full scholarship. >> i never said i received a full scholarship. don't lie. i never said i received a full

scholarship. >> politico told a bold faced lie. they have been called out by the "washington post" and "new york times." there are some people with integrity in your business. >> you just told me you got a scholarship offer. >> she said i got a scholarship. i never said i got a scholarship. i had people who said i could get a scholarship to west point and i told them that i wasn't interested that i was going to pursue medicine. >> did you make a mistake in the way you characterized this? >> i think it is perfectly clear. i think people want to make it into a mistake. i'm not going to say it is a mistake so forget about it. >> why is it so important? why is that an issue? why do you think it is important for your background? >> it is important to me because it was a transformation for me. that is when i became a person who really understood the power

of god in a person's life and it created a relationship between me and god at that point. >> why we are here tonight, the african-american vote, is that important to you? are you doing a good enough job on polling? >> it is a very important demographic. all demographics i think are very important. >> we're back on our special edition of "hardball." here we are in rock hill, south carolina for the first in the south democrats forum. we have been watching republican front runner ben carson facing more scrutiny as new questions emerge from his past. did he accurately represent what happened when he says he was offered a free ride to west point military academy. as a political outsider dr.

carson side rocketed appalls in part because of his personal story that brought him fraumom inner city of detroit. with me now is steve kornacki, joy reed and casie hunt. i have been watching this situation here with him addressing the reporters. and it may come down to words, what he has been saying and dining out on for years. he has a claim to fame. offered a full scholarship to west point. a phrase most people take to be you were offered a chance to go to west point and you turned it down. not that somebody talked about get tg for you. he says that is not what it means. >> it hasn't been the central part of ben carson's narrative which is the sort of up from the bottom narrative that made him popular on the speaking circuit

for conservative and christian organizations, home school conventions. he has had a decades long career of really marketing himself as the ultimate story. this story has not been absolutely central to that narrative. it has been about the overall up from poverty story. this is the first time you are having a central plank really being challenged on a factual basis which is a blow to his whole sort of reason for being in the central position that he is in. so it will be interesting to see not only this but what they are more vigorously defending him on are stories about overcoming a personally violent nature. that is more central to the story he has been telling to yu young people. he was talking about having talked to the person he stabbed. he said it was a close member of the family. this is an odd story. he said i don't want to go

public. >> now he says it soupded as if he was offer ag deal where he might consider. what casey was saying is that the fairest thing is ben carson is somebody who is a familiar figure to somebody but is new to the spot light. at the start of the summer people look at donald trump and said the donald trump thing would be short-lived and then forgot he had been on the public stage for four decades. we are going to find out a lot about ben carson. it is a question. >> it is interesting thing, so many things about people's looks. when you start talking about your own history and resume it gets into familiar political territory because politicians who have made up stuff about their background. it just isn't true. here we go into nomenclature. when a guy says i have a full ride to west point and i turned it down it sounds like you admitted and got the appointment

and chose not to go. that's a different story. >> you are talking about donald trump. he plays into his brand every time he makes an insult. he is confirming that narrative, that story. this runs counter to all of ben carson's back story, this idea that he came from nothing and was up from the boot straps and had this violent past. >> he sold this as part of his story. >> and so if that turns out to not be true and start to question pieces of this over time and there is evidence that he made things up, that is going to be a real problem for him. >> what did he in mean where you know how you start a story one end of the circle. it didn't make sense to me because he started the story. why would you use that as an excuse. >> you have to realize that to

the point ben carson is an unknown figure to most people. remember in two separate circles of american life he is well known. one is african-americans. we grew up really knowing but also deeply evangelical circles where he has had half a dozen best selling books including books for children based on his origin story and made him popular particularly among people in the home schooling world where they read his books directed at teenagers as life lesson stories that are a part of their evangelical tradition. any of that story isn't true it doesn't just mess up his political prospects he has a whole industry. >> not everyone is allowed to speak in paraables. moments ago ben carson spoke to reporters about being offered a free ride to west point. here he is.

>> having someone say we can get you in with a scholarship doesn't mean you are given a scholarship. >> it was an offer to me. >> did you interpret it as an offer. >> i interpreted it as an offer. >> who made the offer? >> i can't remember the name. i don't remember the names of the people. it's almost 50 years ago. i bet you don't know the names of all the people you talked to 50 years ago. anyway, they told me this was available to me because of my accomplishments. >> there you go into trouble there, steve. i know you have been more accepting of this. i want to ask you when you say they, a group of people and you can't remember them yet in his books he is far more definitive. he says i was offered a full scholarship to west point, not i talked to somebody at an event who said they could get this for me. what does offered mean in english? here, take it.

>> i understand completely watt ywatt -- what you are saying. >> is there another interpretation? >> what i'm curious to see here and the point i'm trying to raise is how will this story be interpreted? >> that's politics. >> that's what i'm wondering. >> our job is to try to delineate the truth. we report -- >> aspect of politics is how people interpret the truth. >> how do you interpret it? >> i am giving you my interpretation. the people joy is describing -- >> i want to ask you how do you interpret ben carson's book. >> i'm trying to give you my interpretation of the situation. >> how do you interpret his

words? >> as leaving enough gray area where if you are an evangelical christian who reveres ben carson you can look at this situation and say there is enough gray here that i will stand with ben carson against the liberal media that is trying to prosecute another one of my heroes. >> that is a range of possible truths. >> a range of things people will believe about this. people will look at this and say this guy absolutely lied and fabricated. a lot of people are saying that and a lot of people will say that. i would say right now as i look at this there is enough gray for people who revere ben carson -- >> once you revere somebody it is hard to come back on them. >> if more comes out as casey says, as he is being exposed to scrutiny maybe more will come out that makes it impossible -- >> does it make it harder to make the case where some people told me this.

>> that is not the best. >> william westmoreland disappeared from the story. >> i think he brought him up again tonight. >> in that byte he said i don't remember his name whereas the book says westmoreland. >> i think it is fading. thank you steve kornacki for your vigorous defense of a range of possible interpretations. am i right? >> possible interpretations. >> thank you. thanks myself for this. in about 45 minutes the first in the south democratic candidates forum will begin right here. my colleague rachel maddow will interview each of the candidates in the race. bernie sanders, martin o'malley, hillary clinton. at the end of the forum i will be here with all of the reaction

and analysis. coming up bush 41 about dick cheney and donald rumsfeld how they badly served his son while he was pr. and will be joined by one republican running for president who is against the iraq war, senator rand paul of kentucky. this is "hardball" place for politics. taking small, manageable steps can be an effective... and enjoyable approach... compared to the alternatives. push! i am pushing! sfx: pants ripping how you doing eddie? almost there. small steps. at axa, we'll help you take the next steps, with more confidence. for advice, retirement and insurance, talk to axa today. hey! how are you?g? where are we watching the game? you'll see. i think my boys have a shot this year. yeah, especially with this new offense we're running...

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welcome back to "hardball." coming up tonight by 8:00 eastern. we are back with steve kornacki and joy reed. let me ask you about the democrats. tonight the democrats are meeting here and having these interviews with rachel. they have a little bit of stew cooking right now. let's talk about the democrats. do you think bernie sanders is

desperate or just getting a level he ought to be at in the campaign? >> i think bernie sanders has an imperative after the two states which he has a natural advantage, iowa and new hampshire he runs into a very big problem which is that south carolina is a state in which more than half of the electerate is african-american and he doesn't have much support there. hillary clinton can claim a firewall here because she can claim a massive victory and roll that. >> let me ask you a question. is it true a lot of communities, minority communities, jewish people for example have to know you. it helps to be the second and third generation. a little suspicious of the newcomer is that a problem with bernie? >> if you are a newcomer it helps to be a newcomer in the way bill clinton was in '92.

nationally african-americans came to know him through his style which wasope skpn immediately familiar and felt familiar. >> he is a southern boy. >> he had the affect to help overcome not being known. >> i wonder whether hillary clinton -- >> she has the name. >> a tremendous head start on anybody. >> pretty boy was mentioned earlier tonight in a terrible comparison. >> the numbers are so striking hillary clinton's numbers are up over the last few weeks. a couple of weeks ago when this was tighter there was a poll taken among white democrats in south carolina the race was tied. >> how many white democrats are there in south carolina? >> it was 80 to 8. that was the swing. >> i think they are here tonight, the white democrats of south carolina. i think they are all here.

>> at the risk of getting a hostile crowd going behind us one of the challenges that bernie sanders is going to have is that the case that has been made on his behalf by his supporter has included not exactly friendly confrontations with african-americans over whether or not black people ought to be feeling the burn. the interactions particularly on black lives matter between bernie sanders supporters and african-americans have not helped him because there has been a certain aspect of african-americans i have talked to a lot who feel lectured by sanders supporters who say he marched with king and therefore -- that is not a sufficient argument for african-americans. african-americans asked two questions, are you on our side policy wise, can you win? those are the two questions that he has to answer. >> again speaking for an

entire -- people in the community have more confidence in southern white democrats than northern white democrats because they know they are closer to them? >> they know what they are dealing with. i think a lot of african-americans say we know what we are dealing with. look at the republican -- >> running against fellow liberals. >> he has been dealing with mostly issues of economics and not issues of race. he has been clumsy out of the gate on issues of race. >> just seven years ago we were saying that bill clinton was clumsy about race. >> he was in '08. >> the fact that hillary clinton is here eight years later -- >> there he is. we have a real live candidate

here. thank you. >> they love you. >> good manners. >> let me ask you about three things and you can pick your poison. dr. carson has had a problem explaining what he meant by being offered a scholarship to west point. turns out unnamed guys told they can get it for him and that is what he meant. >> i think sometimes we make a mountain out of a mole hill. i will give you an example. i didn't graduate from college. i went 2 1/2 years and then i went to medical school and i worked hard. the media has scoured me for saying i had a degree in biology . i am proud of the fact that i went to medical schools. sometimes we go overboard with things. he is a johns hopkins surgeon. you think he would lie about

getting a scholarship to west point. i think it is a misunderstanding of a situation of a long time ago. i might have my quibbles with him. i doent thug it goes to his integrity. i don't think he is a janitor and needs to lie. would he purposefully make up a lie. i think it is a misunderstanding. >> let's talk about something that really makes me happy. george bush sr. -- basically said that my son was surrounded by the wrong people. he went after the axis of evil. he basically said my son was screwed by these people. he was taken in, used by him. i have been waiting for that thunder cloud of revelation for 14 years now. here it is.

you have always questioned that iraq war. >> you know when the last time dick cheney was right when he invites the first president it would be a disaster to invade iraq and would be a civil war and kay yaus. old man with respect said cheney changed. >> i think the problem stha t cheney has been wrong about most foreign policy. did the war in iraq make things better? i think the world is more chaotic. iran is stronger. who is iraq's greatest ally iniran. who is their second best buddy? russia. all of this came out of dick cheney's philosophy. >> what do you make of a guy like your colleague in the senate, marco rubio. all you have to do is play romeo to juliet and sing the song of war and guys come out of the wood work and fall in love with

you. everybody just wants to hear that song and this young guy is a hero to these guys. is he pandering? >> you know who marco rubio agrees with? hillary clinton. hillary clinton supported the first war in iraq. she supported the war on libya and syria and support ag no fly zone. i think hillary clinton is a neo-con. neo conservative and i think they are very similar on foreign policy. >> hillary clinton is a neo-con. >> you tell me. show supported the war in iraq. if hillary clinton is president we will be back at war in the middle east. >> what would be the country in. >> that's why i fear hillary clinton. >> let me ask you the question that haunts me. since beginning of the russian

revolution we have avoided a war with russia. because we avoided a war with russia we have been able to save ourselves from a third world war. how do we keep firm our position vis-a-vis putin and at the same time avoid going to war with him which i worry about overseeria for example? >> often there is the debate. we ought to have a discussion about diplomacy? are you isolationist or for engagement? all throughout the cold war republicans and democrat presidents talked to the russians. that was a good thing. that avoided calamity. we have people and marco rubio is one that are naive and say we need a no fly zone and i'm not talking to putin. carly fiorina says the same thing. >> what would they have done during cuban missile crisis in. >> it is a recipe 23r disaster. we need to be strong and negotiate from a position of

strength but we don't need to say we need to shoot down your planes if they fly over iraq. that is a recipe for disaster. that is a position of hillary clinton and six or seven other republicans, no fly zone over iraq, a recipe for disaster. >> we have found common ground once again senator rand paul. thank you for coming in. a little over a half hour from the start of the democratic candidates forum. joining me now is the moderator of tonight's forum the great rachel maddow. one second, they are a little noisy. let's let rachel talk. just a minute. the trouble makers in the back, would you quiet down in the back and let rachel talk. rachel, give us a sense of how you see tonight looking at it 25 minutes out. >> well, i'm too terrified to think or speak but at the time it starts i will calm down and

it's not a debate. they are not on stage at the same time. we are doing this squentually. martin o'malley first and then bernie sanders and then hillary clinton. i will try to get information out of them that they have not previously had to get nailed down on before. we are going to try to get concrete information to southern voters who are trying to make a decision between these democratic candidates. we'll see. there is such news just today, a lot to get them to respond to. >> knowing how hard you work all day and you have probably been working on this for weeks now i take you at your word every question will be brand new. everything will shake them to their roots. is that true? >> well, you know, there is my guiding principle for trying to come up with questions. i try to read everything that has happened on the public stage since they have been running because i don't want to ask them a question that they have already given an answer to.

i don't want to ask a question where i can predict the answer. i want to ask them questions that make them think because they can't just turn to their subspeech and say something they said last week in some other forum. i'm not going to make them try to turn on each other. i'm not going to try to make fireworks. i will try to figure out what is different between them. >> do you have a digression sign to hold up when they start diverting to another area of safety? digression like catcher and the rye. >> or like cow bell or horn. i see there is 29 minutes left so i have time to get something e maybe. >> as we say in shakespeare yn world, break a leg. good luck tonight. >> i will see you as soon as it is over. >> we will be watching rachel maddow at the top of the hour. i noticed the chairs are facing

directly at each other which is interesting. up next on the other side of the aisle chaos in the gop tonight. you are watching "hardball" the place for politics live from south carolina for tonight's democratic forum. you'll see. i think my boys have a shot this year. yeah, especially with this new offense we're running... i mean, our running back is a beast. once he hits the hole and breaks through the secondary, oh he's gone. and our linebackers and dbs dish out punishment, and never quit. ♪ you didn't expect this did you? no i didn't. the nissan altima. there's a fun side to every drive. nissan. innovation that excites.

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stage itself. musical irz cha. every time the song starts they get rid of a chair. chris christie just lost his chair. once the great hope he didn't make the main stage. i guess there was a bridge too far for governor christie. i am joined by the "hardball" round table, steve kornacki, joy joy reid. your thoughts about this table. must be a real revolting development to find yourself at the big kid's table. >> i know -- >> this is like big when the kid gets smaller and smaller? >> he is being a good sport about this. i don't think chris christie likes to be put in the corners. it's kind of a miracle that he is in this as far as he has. when we were first talking about bridge gate we never thought he would look so good. he is having great moments in

new hampshire. >> he is lower than 2.5%. >> when you have a big field like that. >> you broke the story. you made everybody a star. you were great with this. you did a lot first. let me ask you this. is he out of the woods on the legal end of it? >> chris christie himself? >> when bridget kelly and the rest of the names you made infamous when they start talking and try to point and say i did it because somebody told me to do it is more coming? >> the trials keep getting pushed back could be looking at february and march. in a way there may be nothing new that comes out before the early. >> is there something there? >> i think the problem is what happens after the trials or plea deals are struck. when the principles become free to speak publically and tell their stories without legal

threat i suspect they will have -- >> knows there are people that will point to me. >> all of the sphaspace taken by somebody else. the big northeastern loud mouth. >> he doesn't have space left to occupy. it is interesting he is choosing to stay in. >> he is term limited. sometimes that is explaining it all. there are no senate seats open. >> i saw this guy in new jersey. >> you were there at the creation. >> the guy you saw on the video that went viral that guy is a guy i saw for ten years in new jersey. >> the governor reacting to the news that he didn't make the main stage in next tuesday's debate. let's watch.

>> here is something i know for sure. no national polls will determine who the next president of the united states will be. the people who will determine are the people in the first in the nation primary in new hampshire. those people will win in the field, no executives in a suite in new york city and not a pollster sitting in a strip mall somewhere making phone calls. >> it is interesting how he says the pollsteres are to blame. he is way down. the new game is to blame the messeng messenger. blame the church, the press, blame everybody but the truth. if the primaries and voters determine who is next which is he going to win? where does he win? >> here is the answer. he is down in the polls but he went from 2% to 8%. and i'm telling you that moment

you saw on drug addiction, multiply it by 500, multiply it by however many issues -- i saw that guy. >> you think he is in the running. his competition is kasich, bush and rubio. he has to do better than them. >> so much competition. so many people there. john huntsman didn't get a ticket. >> including arriving bernie sanders just arrived. >> there he is coming in. bernie sanders arriving something of a figure now. there is one here, too. there is a bernie sanders here. >> there he is. >> right there. >> bernie sanders. let's talk about that. who carries the fight?

my hunch is he is going to attack. >> he is second tonight. he will say something when he is on second, i think. hillary will have to respond to. >> the moment he has is when he talks about the damn e-mails. >> he has been regretting that. >> i don't see this campaign wanting to run negative. they had a lot of opportunities. >> maybe they can't. >> he is an iconic guy. >> does he want to lose? >> i think he wants to win his own way. there is a lot of -- >> that is a simultaneous equation. >> it's nice to do it your way. >> does he have the psychology to go on the attack and do it effectively? >> he has built a career on not doing that. never running a negative attack ad. i think there is a tug of war between the political

professionals who are around him and who see -- >> he got the nomination. >> we can see i think the tug of war, the people around him are telling him to go tough saying yesterday he doesn't agree with hillary clinton on virtually anything. it's not a place he hastypically been. he told them you can stay positive and lose or go negative and maybe win. he is going out there and going to try to draw a sharp contrast and try to draw a line saying we only draw contrast on policy. people who like him because he is running a different kind of campaign. a lot of supporters don't like hillary clinton and liking the shots. >> i know we looked at numbers hillary clinton is 27% trust worthiness. why don't those people move over to martin o'malley.

>> he has missed huge opportunities to raise his idea. the baltimore moment martin o'malley vanished. reporters couldn't get him to talk. he should have done an interview and gone on the streets of his city that he was the mayor of and defended the policies that people were telling me on the street were to blame for what was happening. he wouldn't defend himself at the moment when he had the maximum opportunity. >> would he have them strike. >> he would have had to defend himself or repudiate. >> he should have defended himself. there are two ways to get name i.d. you is to take your opportunities. i think bernie sanders is much the same position. you take your opportunities. >> that would have been -- if he can turn that situation to a plus. >> tonight thunderstorm kind of

moment. he has to piggy back on the crowds. >> one thing are there any martin o'malley placards here? all three candidates agree on the same policies. he is hoping he can make his pitch to them. he is a young guy and say i have executive experience to deliver. >> he spotted early on, spotted the opening existence to the left of hillary clinton. it was on economic populism and relationship between establishment. if that is the opening bernie sanders who has done this stuff for 40 years you are not going to outbernie sanders bernie sanders. >> i want you to agree on something. it seems if you have a political

resume it is a rap sheet. lindsey graham has been end rooforever. three-time governor of new york. the governor scott walker rick perry, nothing. office for 12 years a lifetime in politics and it's an embarrassment. whereas the guy off the street living example. i have never met a politician. i don't know any of them. i have never been there. that seems to be the claim to fame. >> marco rubio who is a life long politician trying to position himself as the outsider who won't go to it. everyone wants to be the outsider. >>. >> setting rat traps for him. >> the reality stha t a lengthy history is an opportunity. it's a gold mine for the

opposition research. >> are we going to end up with a president -- except for hillary if we get a republican president it is likely somebody without political experience. >> you are looking at rubeio would have the most experience or the most likely. he will tell you it was more than obama had. >> and we don't want to do on the job training. >> and there is a partisan divide here. republicans vast majority say they want somebody new and don't care as much. democrats still majority want fresh ideas but more what experience cht that's why you have hillary clinton. she is using the line who is a bigger outsider than a woman president? it is cute -- >> it reminds people it doesn't hurt. most voters are women. thank you steve kornacki. we will speak to a top adviser

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welcome back to "hardball." site of tonight's democratic candidates forum here on msnbc set to begin at 8:00 eastern. right now we are joined by a top person in the clinton campaign communications director jennifer palmieri. we heard from rachel who said all questions for secretary clinton will be brand new material. >> the last time secretary

clinton did an interview rachel said the goal was to ask questions that were unpredictable to the answer. i know what hillary wants to talk about tonight. she wants to do what everywhere, which is talk about what she's heard from people, the problems they're facing in their lives, and what she would do to address the problems that keep them up at night, particularly in the african-american community. we did a lot of work this week on criminal justice reform. >> to some extent address the audience here in south carolina. >> well, you know, particularly in the democratic party there's a large african-american audience in the democratic party here. she has -- particularly in the last couple weeks she's had criminal justice proposals she's talked about, and she met with -- she had a really moving meeting earlier this week in chicago with a number of mothers who've lost their children to violence. some to sybrina fulton, mother of trayvon martin. some who've lost their children to police violence.

some just violence in general. and what more they can do to combat that. those were really moving meetings for her. but she has talked not just about -- criminal justice reform is an important thing we need to do to remove some of the barriers that keep people from succeeding. but there's a lot on the economic side to make college more affordable dealing with health care. >> what do you make of that? a hawk. he said she'll start wars all over the place. what do you think? you're the communications director. >> she has proven to be -- i think she will be -- she has proven to be a very -- an incredibly effective, empathetic and consistent leader on foreign policy that has a -- you know, already has a lot of presence and standing in the world. and she had a proven ability as

secretary of state to bring people together that hasn't always worked -- >> here's dove. this is dove. >> yes. >> and this is hawk. where's hillary? >> that is not how she -- >> somewhat closer to hawk? >> she does not define -- >> but i'm asking you. >> people say is she a dove o'ar a hawk -- >> i think she's more hawkish. i think she's more hawkish. >> no. >> she's not more hawkish? >> this is not how she -- this is not how she views -- she does not view the world as dove or hawk. she views the world as what's in the united states' interest, what can we affect and improve and where can we be -- >> let me be nice for a minute. one thing i noticed about hillary clinton, nobody ever gives her credit for, when i look at the people around, the names, and they're well-known people, all impressive people, she has a very diverse group of women around her from all different kinds of backgrounds, african-americans, people from the middle east, people -- how do you explain this? goes to wellslee? or how did she get used to dealing with people comfortably

of all different -- there are always people. there's the irish mob and the georgia mafia. all the previous presidents always had a clique from some -- >> she's had a pretty eclectic life. she grew up middle class suburban but her mother really opened the world to her. her first job was working here in this state for the children's defense fund on juvenile justice, looking at the impact of children being in prisons. she's had a very eclectic life, living in arkansas, then of course as secretary of state. so she is someone who, you know -- her whole -- >> does she practice reaching out to people like maggie williams over the years and cheryl williams? she's really seemed to make an effort not to go with the usual people -- >> she does bring -- she brings new -- she is someone who -- she is extraordinary how much she can listen, read, and absorb from people. it's always looking for new voices. and she brings -- she has a really wide group of friends --

>> who's smarter, hillary or bill? which one? >> obviously hillary. >> right answer. right answer. thank you, jennifer palmieri. communications director for hillary clinton and the clinton campaign. thank you. thanks for coming on. the first south democratic forum featuring hillary clinton and bernie sanders and martin o'malley is coming up at 8:00 eastern on msnbc. we're back with more "hardball" after this live from rock hill, south carolina.

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the democratic candidates forum is just two minutes away in rock hill, south carolina, but let's get some views of the people. >> hillary was just called a neocon earlier tonight and i want to know do we have a candidate here tonight that will stop the drone warfare and stop attacking countries that haven't attacked us? >> who's that? >> bernie's probably the closest one we have. >> let's go down here. what do you think? >> actually i just wonder how we've gotten to the point where we have a candidate who thinks the world is under 10,000 years old being taken seriously in this country. >> is that carson? >> it's remarkable to me. >> fundamentalism is winning this case. let's go down here. how are you doing? bernie. >> bernie! >> who's this guy here? is this the real bernie? >> when will we overturn citizens united? ? we didn't talk about it tonight but it's a big issue. why is citizens unite aid big issue to you? >> well, basically, politicians can buy democracy at this point. it's up for sale.

>> who's the worst offender on using big money? >> clearly the gop if you want me to name a particular candidate. >> which candidates? >> rubio. >> rubio. come on. let's get to it. he's looking around, shaking the cup for the big money. >> how are you doing? >> same guy. black lives. two white guys pushing for black lives matter. >> white people need to care about structural inequality in america. we need to say that black lives matter. and i want to know if the democratic candidates care enough to have a substantive policy debate. the gop are using collective bargaining to get their candidates to framt debate they want. why don't the dnc and the democratic candidates have a debate about black lives matter? >> how are you doing? >> good. >> you're with a very beautiful sweatshirt. you have anything to say about this tonight? >> i think it's beautiful. i love the energy of the crowd. >> you have a great voice. >> thank you. >> i want this guy in the broadcasting booth. this guy. brook benton. very deep voice. we're going to go right now to the democratic candidate forum tonight. rachel maddow's going to moderate. it's going to be worth listening to. it's going to be right here. and afterwards, 90 minutes from

now we'll be right back on that stage to analyze it with rachel joining us and maybe some of the candidates. >> bernie, bernie -- >> hillary, hillary, hillary! i'm a progressive who likes to get things done. >> we fight for pay equity for women workers. >> let us stand together and say that the enduring symbol of our nation is not the barbed wire fence. it is the statue of liberty. >> i've been told to stop shouting about ending gun violence. well, i haven't been shouting, but when a woman speaks out some people think it's shouting. >> i will have the independence and i will have the backbone to fight for you. >> an economy that works