tell your doctor about all the medicines you take, and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ask your doctor about otezla today. otezla. show more of you. this sunday morning, what's the story or stories with ben carson? did he embellish tales about his violent youth and possible admission to west point? carson talks directly to nbc news. >> it's not time to spend every single day talking about something that happened 50 years ago. plus, countdown to election day. it is exactly one year away from today. voters are fed up with washington and yearning for outsiders. joining me this morning are all the outsiders, trump, sanders and fiorina. also, what we now know about why that russian plane crashed in egypt. we'll talk to the vice chair of the senate intelligence committee, dianne feinstein. and finally, look at who

hosted a hugele? "snl" last night. >> they don't have my talent, my money or especially my good looks. >> and joining me for insight and analysis this sunday morning are radio talk show host hugh hewitt, msnbc's rachel maddow, pbs news hour's gwen ifill, and politi politico's mark caputo. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press". >> from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning. well, exactly one year from today, we'll be hearing a lot of this music. ♪ ah, they're playing my tune. the nbc news election night music one year out. we can agree on this. american voters have lost faith in their elected officials and are looking for someone to restore trust in government. in a moment, i'll be joined by two candidates who represent the anti-politician mood of the country, donald trump and bernie sanders.

but first, another one of those candidates who has seized on republican voter frustration with politics as usual, and that's ben carson. but his rise in the polls is now clouded by allegations that he has been embellishing or potentially making up stories about his youth. my colleague chris jansing caught up with ben carson at jfk airport last night and asked him about these stories that include whether he was a violent teen, that he was offered a scholarship to west point after meeting with general william westmoreland and the first thing you'll hear about, a "wall street journal" story that questions his claim that he protected white students at his high school during those mlk riots in detroit. >> reporter: so what they said was that they contacted a number of people there, they talked to teachers there, that none of those people remember this happening. >> well, they don't remember the riot? >> reporter: everyone remembers the riot.

they don't remember the role you said you played to protect the white students. >> why would they know about that unless they were one of those students? >> reporter: so it doesn't surprise you that no one in any of these stories has come forward? >> well, maybe one of those students will come forward. i don't know. i'm just now hearing about it. maybe they're not spending all of their time reading the "wall street journal." >> reporter: general westmoreland we know now looking at his records he was not there when you said in your book -- >> i know he was there in detroit and i know there were congressional medal of honor. it may not have been memorial day, but it was sometime during the time when i was the city executive officer. >> reporter: wouldn't the easiest way to defuse at least some of these questions is to ask your brother to come out and speak about this? you said it was your mother and brother who would know about your temper. >> my mother has alzheimer's, my brother is not interested in talking to the media, and a

number of other people aren't either that i've talked to. >> reporter: vetting is a normal part of the process. did you not expect this? >> i have always said that i expect to be vetted. but being vetted and what is going on with me, you said this 30 years ago, you said this 20 years ago, this didn't exist, this didn't exist, i have not seen that with anyone else. if you could show me where that's happened with someone else, i will take that statement back. >> reporter: i think almost every person who has been president -- >> not like this, no. i have never seen this before. and many other people who are politically experienced tell me they've never seen it before either. >> reporter: you don't think that bill clinton or the president with his birth certificate, people who still -- >> no, not like this. >> reporter: -- refuse to believe -- >> not even close. >> reporter: so what do you think is going on? why you? >> because i'm a threat. >> reporter: to?

>> to the progressives, the secular progressive movement in this country. i'm a very big threat. they can look at the polling data and they can see i'm the candidate who is most likely to be able to beat hillary clinton. they see that. >> reporter: is this fun for you? >> would i have preferred to be doing something else? certainly. but it is important to me. and when i think about the sacrifices that were made by those who preceded us in order that we might have the freedom that we have now, it's the very least that i can do. >> there's more to chris' interview on our website meetthepressnbc.com including a question on his recollections on the class he took at yale. let me go over to donald trump. he joins me by phone just hours after hosting "saturday night live." so, without further ado, live from new york, it's sunday morning with donald trump. mr. trump, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning, chuck. >> let me get your reaction. do you think this matters, what's going on here with dr. carson?

>> i feel badly for ben. i've gotten to like ben. it's a tough thing. he writes a book where he went after his mother, wanted to hit her in the head with a hammer, hiting the friend in the face with a padlock, hard in the face, stabbing somebody only to be broken up by a belt buckle, which if you know about belt buckles, they turn and they twist. i don't think they're going to stop a knife with the force of a strong man. and, you know, when he writes he has pathological disease in a book, now, he obviously wrote this book prior to thinking about running for office i assume, but, you know, he said he has pathological disease -- >> so you don't believe him. you don't believe him, do you? >> well, if you have pathological disease, that's a problem. i mean, he wrote it. i didn't write it, but he's going to have to explain a lot of things away. the scholarship situation, the dinner with westmoreland when westmoreland wasn't there. the pyramids. pyramid is a solid structure other than a little area for the

pharaoh. you don't put grain in a pyramid because it's all solid. >> you have done a little -- you have done a little political trick here. you have referenced every negative connotation you could pick up on on dr. carson. number one, you obviously believe he's a threat to your standing in the polls. number two, you believe these are pretty serious. >> well, i think everyone is a threat to me. i look at all of these people. i like a lot of them. i respect a lot of them. i think sereverybody is a threa but nobody is going to do the job i can do, nobody is going to make america great again, nobody is going to take jobs from china and bring them back to this country and many other places, india, japan. nobody is going to be able to do that, but i view in terms of the election, i view -- i'm number one in the polls. i was number one, as you know, qualifying for the fox debate. i'm number one. i'm in the pole position as they call it, but i think everybody is a threat. >> let me ask you something about your book that you said because i think in order to

restore trust with the american people, i think you have to be putting out your plans, you got to put it out on paper, and you said this in your book "crippled america." they have been claiming i haven't put out enough specifics. there's a good reason for this and it fits perfectly with my overall philosophy of leadership. there's a lot of different voices that have to be considered when working towards solutions. it involves getting people into a room and negotiating compromises until everyone walks out of the room on the same page. on the negotiating front, that's what a lot of americans want to see. they pick a president that they want to see compromise. but don't you owe it to republican primary voters to put your stances on paper, more of them, put your plans and details on paper? we know they might change but let's see it. show us your work. >> sure, and i have done that. i have come out with a tax plan, very detailed. i've come out with a plan for the vets where we will make the vets happy and healthy. these are our great people and we're going to take care of our vets. >> but you haven't told us how

you're going to make mexico pay for this wall. >> it's easy. i'll tell you right now. we have a trade imbalance of $40 billion, $45 billion with mexico a year. we spend billions of dollars. we give mexico billions of dollars a year. the wall is going to cost $6 billion or $7 billion -- >> so tariffs. >> -- if i build it. >> so tariffs. >> we can build a magnificent wall and we can spend $7 billion, not the kind of numbers i'm hearing, and when you have a trade imbalance of $40 billion and $45 billion a year, when we give them billions of dollars, it's really easy to negotiate that deal, that i can tell you. the other politicians won't be able to negotiate because they don't have a clue about negotiation, but it's really easy. we're losing 45 -- think of it. a trade imbalance of $40 billion to 45 bltz -- >> so mexico -- >> and that doesn't include the drugs that pour over into our country. that's exclusive of drugs and the drugs are probably bigger than the numbers we're talking about. >> yaur saying tariffs on

mexico. >> no, i'll get mexico to pay for it one way or the other. i guarantee you that and i have great relationships with mexico and the mexican people i have great -- you're seeing in nevada i won the poll with the hi hispanics but their leaders are taking advantage of our leaders. >> two questions. a new book said you called up lee at water and said vet me forv p. >> you know, it's interesting because lee was a very good friend of mine a terrific guy and died at a very young age and he came to me when i was quite young and he said you'd be a great vice president. i said, really, tell me about it? this is the first time i ever thoughts -- i was building my empire. i was starting to build my empire. i guess i was in the midst of, it and frankly lee said you'd be great and you should do it, you should do it. i want to get back to you and we talked about it on two occasions but nothing ever came of it. >> quickly on "snl," there's always a line on these things. do you think -- there's some people that question how serious

you are about running for president. does hosting "saturday night live" undermine how serious you are running for president? >> well, if you look, every politician -- not every, but just about every politician has gone on "saturday night live." it's a very iconic thing. it's actually my second time hosting it. i did it 11 years ago also. "the apprentice" was number one and they asked me to do it and i did it. i had a great time. hillary was on two weeks ago and everybody was on. host something a bigger deal than doing a single skit but i had a fantastic time doing it. i think it's going to get tremendous ratings. i guess that's what they're saying already and, you know, it was a big success for nbc. you should be extremely happy, chuck, because i think it was a big success for nbc. i had a lot of fun doing it. >> do you think you should have taken the protesters more seriously? >> no, no not at all. before the show there were very few of them there. there were more people protesting in favor of me than against and before the show started about 30 minutes before the show started, everybody left.

do you know why they left? because they went home to watch it. they went home to watch "saturday night live." >> you were comfortable with larry david sort of mocking the protest? >> well, not only comfortable, it was something i had to agree to and i loved it. i thought it was great. larry got up and he said certain things and i fully -- that was part of a script. in all fairness. and it was funny and the place was roaring. i can tell you the studio was roaring. we had a good time and it's not a question -- you know, i'm doing great with the hispanics, chuck. i'm win sog many different areas with hispanics. i employ thousands of hispanics. i'm going to bring jobs back for hispanics and we're going to win the hispanics. >> we have a face to face coming up close. i look forward to it. >> very good. thank you, chuck. let me move to the other side of the aisle, the democratic presidential candidate, independent senator from vermont, senator bernie sanders. welcome back to "meet the press." let me quickly ask you about this ben carson stuff because you have seen some people leak

out stuff you wrote 30 and 40 years ago. is this fair game? >> no, and, look, i listened to the interviews with dr. carson, and it's interesting, but you know what, chuck? the american people want to know why the middle class of this country is disappearing, why we have 47 million people living in poverty, why we have massive income and wealth inequality. when you look at dr. carson, to the best of my knowledge, this man does not believe that climate change is caused by human activity. this man wants to abolish medicare impacting tens of millions of seniors, and this man wants to give huge tax breaks to the rich. i think it might be a better idea, i know it's a crazy idea, but maybe we focus on the issues impacting the american people and what candidates are saying rather than just spending so much time exploring their lives of 30 or 40 years ago.

and i think the reason so many people are turned off to the political process has a lot to do with the fact that we're not talking about the real issues impacting real people. >> you know, you have been very consistent about this, and i think it's been a very admirable part of your campaign. in fact, you had made it clear you didn't want to go after hillary clinton. let me play the many times you said that. >> i am not going to get into the media game, andrea, of attacking, making personal attacks against hillary clinton. i just am not going to do that. i don't think that's what the american people want. if i were to start viciously attacking hillary clinton it would be all over the front pages of the paper, but i don't do that. i happen to respect and like hillary clinton, so i don't get into personal attacks. you know that. >> senator, something seemed to change this week. a boston globe interview you said i disagree with hillary clinton on virtually everything. "the wall street journal," you said consistency speaks to the

character of a person. and the e-mails. you said you're tired of the damn e-mails but then you said let the investigation proceed unimpeded. are you backtracking? >> this is exactly media stuff. my views on hillary clinton's e-mails are exactly what i said in the debate and right after the debate. the american people are sick and tired of seeing on the front pages e-mails. they want a real discussion on real issues. there is an investigation ongoing. i have nothing to do with it. that's that. but my views on that have not changed. in terms of disagreeing with hillary clinton, yeah, i do, on many, many issues. you know, what i understand politics and elections to be about is to discuss differences of opinion. i intend to do that and do that vigorously. that does not mean i'm making personal attacks against somebody i respect. i disagree with hillary clinton on whether or not we should break up the large financial institutions in this country. i don't have a super pac. she does have a super pac.

we have many different points of view, and i will discuss those vigorously. >> one of the things you have pointed out is consistency. you believe that matters. what's wrong with evolving on issues? what's wrong with that? >> there's nothing wrong. everybody evolves on issues. nothing wrong with that but i think if you look at the important issues facing this country, going back to 2002, who made the analysis? who looked at what bush and cheney were saying on the war in iraq? it's one thing to evolve and say, well, i made a mistake. it's another thing to analyze the information and say, you know what? i think that that war is a terrible mistake. in terms of trade, look, i am glad that in recent months hillary clinton has moved to my position on the keystone pipeline, on the transpacific partnership. she's now making a step forward on marijuana, not far enough in terms of getting the federal government seeing it as illegal, but, but what people want to know is who has leadership? who was there in 1996 in terms

of doma, the defense of marriage act? so what i think the issue is, who is prepared under difficult circumstances when it's not necessarily popular to make decisions which are the right decisions rather than 20 years later say, well, you know, maybe i was wrong or maybe i got to rethink that. >> well, i had a lot more i want to discuss. we're compacted today but senator sanders, it's always a pleasure to have you on, sir. be safe on the trail. >> okay. >> thanks very much. when we come back, the panel will be here to discuss all we've heard from ben carson, trump, and bernie sanders. what a week and what a day. one year from "e" day. we'll be back.

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welcome back. the panel is here. of course, radio talk show host hugh hewitt whose show has become an essential destination. raichel maddow from msnbc. gwen ifill, anchor of pbs news hour and mark caputo a miami-based reporter for politico. nobody owns the politico space in florida like mark. thanks for coming up. >> thanks for having me. >> hugh, let me start with what you heard from dr. carson. i think he's going to go the media is being unfair route. this is a standard practice when republicans are under fire. is it going to work for him? >> well, it has the additional

benefit of being true. what he had an objection to this week is there were four scandals but only two reported. marco rubio does not have a scandal. hillary had her nondisclosure agreement revealed and reuters obtained a letter from a group refusing to answers questions about hillary clinton. one about ben carson and west point, not a scandal, and the one about marco rubio was ought puff. >> why is it not a scandal? >> i have no doubt somebody said we'll get you in, come to west point. i have no doubt. it was fairly common. >> he's sort of -- obviously he's a very distinguished retired surgeon. since retiring as a surgeon he's basically a professional auto biographer. he sells and sells and sells his

auto by graph if i. there are a lot of things, all of which are favorable to him and all of which have helped sell himself as this amazing person who ought to be president which cannot be corroborated including the factual statement that you can get a full scholarship to get west point. it doesn't work that way. >> direct admissions are a full scholarship. >> nobody pays. >> nobody pays. >> so nobody gets a scholarship. it's not like he got offered to west point and didn't have to pay when other people would have to. >> if you get into yale and you are an rotc student, do you really doubt someone came to him and said you need to go to west point, we'll get you in by direct admit. do you really doubt that happened? >> what i doubt is a person ought to be president on the basis of their auto by graph if i when they sell that to the country as i was offered a full scholarship to west point and i turned it down because i didn't need it. you weren't offered a full scholarship -- >> yes, he was. >> i didn't apply to west point. nobody gets a full scholarship to west point. if you're selling yourself you're not selling it truthfully. >> gwen, you have been on the trail a long time over the

years. >> thanks for that. >> and i guess to me the danger for dr. carson is the fact that his candidacy is built on biography and honesty. >> it's built on saying this is who i am, this is my boot straps and we all admire that. the interesting thing about people is it seems surprised at what it takes to run for president and what it takes is scrutiny. when dr. carson says there has never been scrutiny like has been directed at him, that is just not so. we were all there when bill clinton went through the whole thing with killing vince foster, with the airstrip in maine, arkansas. we're still talking about barack obama's birth certificate years after he was president. there's always this scrutiny. each and every time those folks hated it. they complained. they felt like victims. of course this is the way dr. carson, who has great

self-regard, as he deserves to because he accomplished a lot in his life. >> but his objection to the double standard, there's the nda story, mrs. clinton is not being covered in the same way ben carson is being covered. >> mrs. clinton would say there was also a report saying those two e-mails that were supposed to be classified were not classified and nobody covered that. >> mark you had -- >> i'd rather just watch them. >> i know. do you see why we put them next to each other. >> it's also -- >> don't want to get in the middle of that. >> they're also so civil about it which is a reminder that is what sunday mornings are about. you had the marco rubio story that hugh just brought up and it does go to -- the head scratcher there was it was sort of like a non -- it was a nonissue but what took them so long? >> there are a few things. one rubio in 2010 first batch of his credit cards got released -- credit card statements through the republican party florida got released on the behest of then governor charlie crist who was

running against him in the snoot. they made the calculation in 2010 these are private statements and i'm just going to take the hit. years later they had the luxury of knowing when he runs for president, they're going to have time to analyze his other statements and when they analyze them they can put them together and pull the bank statements. they realized, oh, my god, there's not much here. only $65,000 in spending over two years as the head of florida house campaigns which is not a lot of money. and so what they did was made a calculation, we're going to hold off until the appropriate time and let the donald trumps of the world say this is going to be a disaster. >> it was a setup. >> i think it was a trap, yes. >> you really believe this was the todd harris strategy? >> i also think it's part of the marco rubio strategy. i put it in my story i wrote when you look at the hype that built it up and then you look at the expenses, you really have to go out are your way to make it look like a scandal. >> david rivera -- >> speaking of scandal. >> the former member of congress who was basically chased out via scandal, is that now going to be

less of a hit on him because of how this credit card thing went down. >> i wouldn't presume to say what's going to be a hit and what's not. certainly he will have to answer questions about his relationship with david. david has been in a lot of trouble but been able to avoid indictment at the state and federal level. >> i'm going to hit the pause button. we have so much to cover. the democrats, the bush family, shakespearean drama going on there. we're going to change lanes. after the break the latest on the russian plane and why experts are increasingly convinced it was a bomb that took it down. dianne feinstein will be here, intel committee. she'll share what she knows. >> "meet the press" is brought to you by -- he russian plane an

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welcome back. a memorial service has been taking place in st. petersburg, russia, this morning for the 224 victims of that russian plane crash. we don't know what the cause of the crash was yet in egypt's sinai peninsula. u.s. officials are increasingly convinced it was downed by a bomb. and attention is focusing on intercepts of chatter between an isis affiliate and members of a group in syria. i am joined by dianne feinstein from california. >> good morning. >> why are u.s. officials so convinced this was a bomb? >> well, i think it's an emerging story. i think, first of all, you have the flight data recorder and the voice recorder that records something that could be an explosion. secondly, it's the nature of isil, i think.

you know, isil is now in 12 countries. they do attack after attack. the forensics on the super structure of the plane need to be done. i'm delighted to hear that the fbi will be going into the area and will participate, and i believe we are sharing our information, intelligence information now, and this is a pointed i want to make. it is my strong belief that the united states and our good allies should share information regarding terrorist attacks. we usually do this, and it's important we do this with russia -- >> are you concerned we're not sharing with russia because of this rivalry? >> yes. my understanding is that we weren't for a while, but i have now heard that we are. i hope that's true. >> do you believe this -- you have seen the intelligence -- i know there's some things you can't share, but everything you have seen, you have seen this stuff in the past, do you

believe it was a bomb? >> i think there's a strong probability it was. i can't say it's dead bang certain. >> right. >> but there's a strong probability that it was. >> what does this mean? >> well, this means, i think, a very big thing for russia. this was a russian plane with russian people. major attack. russia is in the area. russia is at three bases, has planes, has people. my hope is that russia will take a strong stance against isil, and they are not now so doing. most of the attacks are directed toward the moderate opposition, and i think the time has come for us also to begin to develop a joint strategy. >> you hope this is a wake-up call to putin. >> i hope it's a wake-up call to putin and i hope to some extent it's a wake-up call to us. i have said before and i really believe it, we will fight them now or we will fight them later.

it's only a question of time, and they're now in 12 countries. they've done 25 major attacks in these countries outside of syria and iraq in the last two years. this is a huge worldwide problem, and we've got to play a major role. the russians should as well. >> if this was a bomb, it looks like the assumption is it got on via airport workers, that it didn't get on via is passenger. they seem to have cleared the passengers. the scary thing about this is do we have -- you know, what do we do to screen airport workers in this country? the dea busts drug rings all the time. they've done a lot when it comes to airport workers smuggling drugs on planes. that tells you there's some security holes. >> well, this is a very complicated area, and i think homeland security is doing as good a job as they can.

they are now tightening security. the kinds of bombs vary. the one i'm most worried about is the one that there have been four attempts to bring into this country, and that's the one that goes through a magnetometer. the bombmaker is still alive, and that bomb is -- the recipe for which is easy to get and it is very serious. it can take down a plane. so we need to totally be on our guard. we need to do those things that are prudent and direct, and i think homeland security realizes that and we are toughening in those places which are important to toughen security in now. >> you know, 14 months ago you said this about the president. i think i have learned one thing about this president and that is that he's very cautious, maybe in this instance, too cautious. it had to do with syria. he obviously has made an incremental step about what he wants to do with syria with the special forces. is it enough? >> no.

the special forces are limited. i think 50. that won't do it. if we're really going to use special operations, quick in, quick out, you have to do it in a much more comprehensive way to get at isil. this just isn't one facility. it's not one building , it's may different places. the other thing that seems to be emerging is the belief that bombing alone isn't going to do it. we've had over 7,000 sortees, others have meat sortees as well, we have made the majority of the sortees and that hasn't changed the dynamic. so i think we've got to look at those things which can be major in scope, and this means put together a strategy with russia and move ahead. >> all right. senator dianne feinstein, vice chair of the intel committee. see if they listen to your advice. >> yes, right, chuck. thank you. >> thanks for being on. >> thank you. >> when we come back, why carly

fiorina believes she does not have to show any detailed policy plans as they runs for president. wait until you hear this. can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive?

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ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. welcome back. we've heard from three of the main outsider candidates for president today. yesterday i caught up with another, the former yo eer ceo hewlett pa-packar hewlett-packard, carly fiorina. i asked her why she's failed to release any policy plans on her website. >> let me degrace with the premises of your question. how often do politicians put out detailed plans? how often to they get enacted? never. that's the problem. but if you go to the carly for president.com website what you can do is ask a question and you will see me answering the question in public verbally. in other words, i am being held accountable. a plan, anybody can write a plan, anybody can put a plan on

a website. it's another thing to say you know what i think we need to do and say it over and over again in public and be held accountable for this. we need to go from a 73,000 page tax code which is what we have today with 4,000 changes since 2001, we need to get it down to about three. what that means is we need to close every loophole and lower every rate. >> show us what you're going to do. but -- >> that is what i'm going to do. >> show us your work. >> so in other words, words on a piece of paper are more accountable than words said to people looking them in the eye? i don't think so. i don't think that's what voters think because i think voters have gotten smart enough to know that plans and papers, 50-point plans, 10-point plans, 5-point plans are written by a bunch of advisers and consultants. i'm perfectly prepared to be held accountable for my words and my plans and i would encourage your viewers to go on the website and ask any question they want. >> we shouldn't expect a tax

plan out of you anytime soon on paper. >> i have given you a tax plan. i have given you a tax plan. needs to be three pages and the only way to get there is to lower every rate and close every loophole. >> so that's the question for you guys. will voters accept candidates who do not put their ideas on paper for us to see? i'm going to ask the panel that question as well. we'll be right back. ng, it was serious. fortunately, my doctor had a game plan. treatment with xarelto®. hey guys! hey, finally, somebody i can look up to... ...besides arnie. xarelto® is proven to treat and help reduce the risk of dvt and pe blood clots. xarelto® is also proven to reduce the risk of stroke in people with afib, not caused by a heart valve problem. for people with afib currently well managed on warfarin, there's limited information on how xarelto® and warfarin compare in reducing the risk of stroke. you know, i tried warfarin, but the blood testing and dietary restrictions... don't get me started on that. i didn't have to. we started on xarelto®. nice pass. safety first. like all blood thinners,

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"meet the press" nerd screen is brought to you by lyrica. we are back. it is no secret that democratic candidates across the country have struggled at the polls since president obama took office. just how badly have democrats been performing? let's start with congress. since 2009 democrats have lost a net of 13 senate seats and 69 house seats. now, let's put this in some historical context. you have to go back to eisenhower to match this many losses for a party that controls the white house with senate seats. 13 of them. in the house it's been 100 years since a two-term president's party suffered worse losses. that was woodrow wilson and the democrats. 99 house seats. let's go to the state level with president obama. under him democrats have lost control of 12 governorships. including just this past week in kentucky. plus they've given up 30 state legislative chambers. ready for this? over 900 state legislative

seats. no administration since nixon/ford saw more governor and state legislative chamber losses in the president's own party. of course, there was a reason for those losses. the watergate scandal. you have to go back to eisenhower again to find more losses of state legislatures, over 1,000 back in the '50s. so what is going on here? why are democrats across the country getting wiped out in election after election where barack obama's name is on the ballot? the explanation is democrats don't turn out if obama is not on the ballot. wasn't that long ago, 2002 they won a bunch of governorships. something is wrong here and you can't just blame it on democrats don't show up. >> what's happening is the democratic party is getting smoked strategically by the republican party. the republican party made a decision to invest long term in the place where is it makes an

institutional difference whether you're there. so the republican party, they didn't talk a lot. it national idealally, but they invested heavily in advance of the 2010 cycle in winning state legislative seats across the country that nobody in the national press cared enough about. they flipped enough of them to flip the congressional map that locks it in for a decade. republicans are thinking that way and democrats just aren't. >> no better example than the state of florida. a swing state that's nowhere near swing in legislative races. >> the big thing is that the barack obama political machine and we're big data, it's a lie. the obama political machine without obama is no machine. they don't win. that was largely personality-based campaign in two different cycles, and i did witness at least in florida the obama machine for whatever it was, it was kind of good having its consultants come down and build virs democrats in races and not win them but then in addition to that they would not

do much to help. you also had in addition to that folks not liking barack obama very much, and so if you were running for office, you ran away from obama and obama's people didn't run toward you to help. >> let's do a little history here, hugh. so it took republicans 40 years to recover basically from the double whammy of the eisenhower losses and the watergate losses, 40 years. democrats could be waiting 40 years to recover from this legislative and house -- they may win the white house five of the next six times. >> siberia is big, and they are in siberia right now, and they keep nominating bad candidates. i want to pay rachel a commitment. ten days foog former secretary of state clinton was on your show and she said rather cavalierly that the va scandal was not as widespread. this is the kind of faux pas democrats made. bernie sanders this morning made a super pac ad in detailing

hillary clinton's flips. >> let me play a few highlights from clinton, sanders, and o'malley. >> i want us to use diplomacy which is why i spent 18 months putting together the sanctions against iran. however, i will not -- i think it's irresponsible to rule out force. >> to me as opposed to maybe some other unnamed candidates the issue of keystone was kind of a no-brainer. it never made sense to me from day one as to why you would ekts tract and transport some of the dirtiest fuel on this planet. >> look, contrary to donald trump's assertion, the enduring symbol of our country is not the barb wire fence, it's the statute of liberty. >> gwen, what did you make? >> without sucking up overly much, rachel, did you a really good job on that. >> thank you for saying so. >> i fell in love with the format, the idea of which you actually engage back and forth with candidates for periods of time without them trying to break the rules, without them

trying to duck or change a question. >> we would do this with any republicans that want to do this one by one by one. >> i would, too. >> me. >> i think the one-by-one format if you care -- if this is what everybody says -- >> we could mix it up between parties. you could alternate democrat, republicans. >> you could do it one issue at a time. >> and you learn interesting things. listen to bernie sanders say i don't want to name the names of these people was kind of disingenuous. of course he's talking about hillary clinton. you listen to hillary clinton say i don't want to answer your question, rachel. i'd prefer to have someone say i don't want to answer your question, gwen, then pretend to answer something else. so there's something very -- it's revealing. if we're going to run xrans as we were just talking about based on personalities, then let's find out more about their personalities, their true transparency. >> boy, coy tell you, rachel, the confidence of hillary clinton today versus three weeks ago, it's unbelievable the change. you can see it in bernie

sanders. look at him. he's getting anxious. >> he's going for it. he's more than 50 points behind in south carolina. she's got 80% support among african-american democrats in south carolina. he knows where he needs to go. she just needs to run out the clock. the problem is when hillary clinton tries to run out the clock, that's always when bad things happen. >> it's a long clock. >> it's always like the plot twist in "law and order." >> just when you think you can relax, pow. >> mark and hugh, you both said there's one takeaway from this show today that you haven't been able to shake and it goes back to the republican side of the race. >> ben carson saying when he was interviewed just -- >> last night. >> where he says basically he has kind of better things to do, and it's very jeb bush where jeb said he had cool things to do and he might not want to do this and these candidates are acting like they're being dragged in to serve my country and i'm going to go back to my plow now unless you love me. i just don't get that. >> we both gasped when he said

that. >> i did, too. >> you have to have energy. donald trump put that word in the campaign and now it defines rubio, cruz, and christie. you have to want to serve. >> listen to what we heard this morning from carly fiorina, what we heard from marco rubio, and ben carson. whenever they're under attack, whenever they're questioned, they immediately say go to my website and give me money. ben carson sent out an e-mail -- >> i wish i could do that -- >> saying i'm under attack, send me money. carly fiorina mentioned her website 85 times. i don't want to put statements or white papers on but come watch me talk and maybe give me money. there's a certain consistency with these candidates. >> you looked like you were going to fall over when you said that. >> i was surprised. put it on paper. >> marco rubio put out a long piece on his new defense strategy yesterday. it's very detailed. that's what you need to do. >> and that's what he did with his tax plan, too. it's getting scrutinized and beaten up.

why can't she? >> we have speech to text translation capability. every time she says something let's put it on carly letterhead and hold it to her. >> i think she will use that to raise money today probably. when we come back, it's the one topic we haven't talked about in the "end game" segment. it's the shakespearean nature of the bush family. there's a bigger issue here. not only is the republican party not been able to figure out what to make of the george w. bush legacy. neither has the bush family. we'll be right back. >> stay tuned for "end game" brought to you by boeing. we've created a new company... one totally focused on what's next for your business. the true partnership where people,technology and ideas push everyone forward. accelerating innovation. accelerating transformation.

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now try new boost® compact and 100 calories. time now for "meet the press" "end game" brought toy by boeing, with a drive to build something better inspires us every day. >> we were going to alert the affiliates and say we're going long because it feels like we should go more than an hour but this last topic, we got a little time for it. there's more evidence this week neither jeb bush or the republican party have worked out how to deal with the legacy of the george w. bush's presidency. a new book by jon meacham unleashed stinging criticism on two of 43's top lieutenants. rumsfeld and cheney for their post-9/11. >> he said i think he served the

president badly, i don't like what he did. on cheney, i don't know he just became very hard line and very difficult from the dick cheney i knew and worked with. the reaction to the attacks on 9/11 what to do about the middle east, and again he uses this phrase as kathleen parker says you can't get enough of iron-ass. mark, we were already last week dealing with jeb bush trying to figure out how to outdistance himself from bush, from whatever -- all things bush. this couldn't have come at a worse time for him. >> it gets more awkward because this coming week we have the republican party is meeting for its annual or its presidential fund-raiser gathering. dick cheney is a featured speaker there. and then jeb showing up. it's like great, getting the band back together one more time toe kind of dysfunctional. >> it feels like the bigger issue is the republican party doesn't know what to do with the legacy does? >> a lot of them don't. one of the best moments jeb had is when he said my brother kept us safe. that's the best part.

he did the middle of our hour grief speech and the republican base wants that to be w.'s legacy. h.w.'s comments run into that headwind because most of the republicans i talk to admire the vice president and the former sec-def a lot. >> what do we like the best? we like the fact they actually confirm what we suspect. we suspected this is where h.w. was. we also suspect if our parents were asked over a period of eight years what they thought about what we did about everything in our lives, there may be some criticism that may come out. i would love to be at the thanksgiving table this year and hear that conversation. >> reaching the book, the one thing i was surprised to feel, i had an emotional reaction which was i can't really imagine the name nuclear family having a third go at the presidency. i mean, going through like all of this drama about one of our sons won his governor's race tonight and one of our sons lost. which state do we go to? oh, god.

>> remember, i think you can bet on a george p. bush will run for president in the next -- >> you brought this up with barbara bush. doesn't it make the no more bushes comment make more sense now? >> her comment. >> it was about her. i think she was exhausted. it's funny you say that. i got the same -- the patriarch and matriarch are exhausted. >> dynastic politics do not work well in the united states. we don't do it. >> having been first lady is not the same as your dad calling your brother quincy. you know what i'm saying? it's a slaightly different thin. >> having bill clinton sitting on the sidelines with all of us waiting for him to say something, do something, that's it's own drag. >> that is going to be that feel of the clinton presidency if there's one which is what does bill really think? what does bill really think? what does bill really think? >> i think rachel's point about

thanksgiving, jeb bush announced last time he was probably going to go down this road of running for president after thanksgiving. this thanksgiving is going to be a big moment for the bush family because if jeb's poll numbers stay at 4% or 5% nationally and also remaining in the cellular florida and new hampshire and iowa, i imagine that's going to be a really awkward thanksgiving. >> i so want an invitation. >> he never gets out though, right? i have been telling people he does not get out. >> h.w. in 1980 didn't get out of the race until may. we looked this up because these bushes are fighters. >> getting out of the race at thanksgiving, it was embarrassing, would look like a loss, so is getting out of the ra i was in march and april. if he's going to lose, he's going to lose. quitting now serves -- >> he's a quitter. losing with honor. >> getting beat is funner next thanksgiving. >> i think it's important to know one of the reasons that you have to think about florida is we don't have an election day in florida, we have election days.

we have a month of early voting and 50% of it is cast by absentee ballot, vote by mail. when you go to the polls in south carolina for the primary, you will have possibly 30% of the votes already in in florida. so you're going to probably want -- if you're going to drop out, if you don't do well in new hampshire, that might be the time. there be going to be different benchmarks if bush's situation remains the same. >> if there's popcorn involved, it will be funnier than "saturday night live" was last night. wow. >> wow. >> you had to get that there" there. >> before we go, i think this might be the most vicious negative ad ever. >> ever. >> let me show it. >> the choice for governor couldn't be more clear. john bell edwards, who answered our country's call and served as a ranger in the 82nd airborne division. or david vitter who answered a prostitute's call minutes after he skipped a vote honoring 28 soldiers who gave their lives in defense of our freedom. david vitter chose prostitutes

over patriots. now the choice is yours. >> okay. this was -- >> whoa. >> hugh and gwen had seen it. mark and rachel had not. >> i love louisiana. the best attack ad before this was actually out of louisiana like about four or five years ago which was a coroner's race where they actually acted out a horror movie where a kor nor was accused of selling body parts. >> i wanted to fact check it. he chose prostitutes after. >> i have to leave it there. >> astonishing. >> we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

viral videos. >> oh, my god, what happened -- what happened to that guy? >> uploaded daily. >> everybody want to see stuff that goes slightly awry. >> viewed by millions. >> how could this not go viral. >> looks can be deceiving. >> people are debating, is this real or fake? >> you're my wife? >> yeah. >> holy [ bleep ] -- >> how could he not remember who his wife is? >> oh! my god! >> like, yeah. i caught a bird. >> we'll let you in on the truth. >> big -- that's my impression of everyone on youtube. fake. >> 21 seconds.