i was in washington, iowa about three months ago talking about how bad washington dchl c. is. >> what happened? because he said something to joke and then it seems like he's too lazy to figure out the punch line. not just the jokes but the foreign policy didn't do much better. >> let isad take out isis and it's like playing a board game. >> let me get that straight.

monopoly is the first board game that comes to mind. there's no better board game to describe the risk of a strategy that puts our battleships into trouble. sorry. >> good morning. it is thursday, november 12th. welcome to morning joe. that's pretty funny. we have a lot to talk about this morning. our interview with donald trump really i think it might have caused some news waves. >> he always makes a wave. >> he always makes a wave. yeah. with us this morning we have the managing editor of bloom berl politics. msnbc former democratic congressman harold ford jr. and on capitol hill robert costa. good to have you all on board. john mechum is coming up as well. we're beginning with an issue that took up a portion of

tuesday night's debate and continued to drive the campaign trail. immigration. here's what donald trump said yesterday about his plans to deport all undocumented immigrants from the country beginning with his exclusive appearance on our show in manchester. >> tell me the how. are you going to have a massive deportation force? >> you're going to have a deportation force and they're going back from where they came. they're going to be brought back to their country. that's the way it's suppose to be. they can come back but legally. dwight eisenhower sent millions of people. million and a half people out in illegal immigrants. brought him out and to the boarder and let him go and came back. let him go a third time and he came back. the fourth time he moved them south and back again.

>> the name of that program includes mexicans which many find offensive. the operation which began in june 19, 5478, aimed to crack down 3 million laborers. according to a 2006 monitor report, eisenhower installed the west point classmate at the head of operation service. the operation took tens of thousands into custody in six states while hundreds of thousands left voluntarily. according to studies viewed by the washington post some were left stranded without the resources to survive.

>> that was anything but humane. they would drop immigrants off in deserts. how old your plan be different? >> very humanely done. very important. >> how? >> it's a home management thing. good management practices. >> believe me when i tell you, mr. trump, that was brutal what they did to those people to kick them back. i mean, the stuff they did was really brutal. it could never happen today. truman before ike sent 23 million people out. >> they were planning a chain

e-mail saying truman deported 2 million immigrants. willie, what do you make of all this? he's saying it would be humane and indifferent. it seems hard to imagine. >> fundamentally, this isn't new for donald trump. he's always said we need to send illegal immigrants back. i think it's his reference to eisenhower that's raised a lot of eyebrows. i know robert spoke to the trump campaign yesterday. did this come up out of the blue? it's allowed her critics to latch on and compare it to something inhumane in 1954. >> this is part of trump's broader strategy. when i spoke to trump's campaign strategy who said there's still remains of a visible default line, the debate exposed it once again and they believe, the trump campaign, that if this campaign continues to unfold,

the base sticks with them and perhaps a senator cruz with their same position and not with bush, kasich and rubio. >> mark, you look like a man alone on that stage the other night. they knew this for him as a as a rule -- as a vulnerability. >> you said the meamerican econy would be threatened. but from a political point of view, this is within the republican party and people are worried that donald trump's immigration idea is going to lead the election. there's no doubt that redder -- produces high fives at the clinton campaign. >> we have other things to get

to. let's bring in the author of the new book john mecham. john, in terms of the ike plan and the deportation force trump is talking about, just your reflections looking back on history on the potential of this becoming a reality. >> i'm almost in favor of any illusi illusion. it's trump moving to a different phase where he wants to make arguments based on history using analogies in order to, someone made a point the other day he seemed slightly more conventional as a candidate the other night. and again when you reinvoke history you're trying to offer a sanction or offer a warning.

he's looking for sanction about something that's politically going to be very toxic. fundamentally, the country has become stronger. >> all right. meacham, thank you very much. robert, you're reporting in the washington post to move on now. the unwillingness of marco rubio's republican rivals to attack him directly on the national stage even as he continues to surge in the poles. you point out while donald trump has frequently laid into rubio on twitter and the campaign has an on set of attacks, both steered clear on the district attorney bait. >> when you speak to people they

want to beat rubio for the nomination but don't want to see him bruised up in the battle to get there. they think he's part of the future of the republican party. that's why a will the of people are reluctant to throw a punch. they seen how he handled jeb bush in the previous debate and know he can counter. >> there's no doubt after watching governor bush attempt to punch him and not have a counter punch, there's no doubt. there is a belief he may be the future. remember, right after the republican loss last go around they conducted an autopsy of what happened. one of the first things they said we have to talk differently about immigration and accepting people into the country. it's amazing to me how mr. trump has completely ignored that and one wing as embraced it.

this is 70% of the people voting against him. >> he did not have to address the debate the way jeb bush did. if there's attacks on marco, there's attacks on immigration and he's going to have to be more clear about what his principals are rather than the tactics on short term or legal status. >> we're going to get to international news right now. i wanted to point to the front page of the washington post. they say they're in inconsistent

demand on the subject matter. a sharp contest that clinton has displayed most recently 11 hour congressional hearing. first the news, iraq and the fight against isis. this morning curdish forces have launched an effort to take the town backed by u.s. air power. some 7,500 fighters are moving in hoping to cut off a major route that isis usings to moes supplies in syria. they had an attempt to retake it and stalled four months later. meanwhile, ben carson turns some heads over some of his comments on tuesday night's debate on american foreign policy particularly with respect to syria. here's what he said in debate followed by comments he made the virginia. >> putting the special ops people in there is better than

not having them there. they're able to guide some of the other things we're doing there. we have to recognize putin spreading in this place. >> there's been speculation china is involved in syria. >> china has been trying to extend its influence not only throughout the middle east but throughout africa and several locations. i'll have to refer you to some

other people to get you the actual data. >> i say two things. i speak english. i don't always fully understand what dr. carson is saying when he's responding to these things. he almost sounds like me trying to talk to a patient of his and give them a prognosis as to what might have happened to them. i would stay away from those questions until we can put you in front of someone to understand. anybody watching, if you have allies around the world, they say he's the front runner in the republican side, that's disconcerning to say the very least. >> it's confusing and frightening for our country. i see the strategy donald trump is taking and i appreciate his

honesty. >> i think dr. carson is being honest but doesn't know what he's talking about. >> that's scary, right. robert, find a republican here or find somebody with a different point of view who maybe doesn't have my outlook. what am i missing here with this candidate? it seems as if he might not know anything about what he's talking about as it pertains to foreign policy like to a point of fight thing and detrimental. >> what's hard to figure with dr. carson is which wing he's in in the party.

carson really hasn't navigated the issue and found himself kind of in between both sides. >> when he gives an answer, he's clearly concerned about russia aggression. his description of the region, what's happening in the region seems to be interest confusing. >> he's observational.

he's an observational candidate who has concerns for russia. he doesn't have a policy he's pushing for the moment. >> there was an unsubstantiated report china was in syria. they said no, we're not there. >> when we get to january and february elect blt is going to be a bigger issue than they are now. answers like that from dr. carson will cost him votes. will it catch up with him in 80

days to iowa? >> you're already seeing it and talking to voters, elect blt and ready to be president are coming to find. you might like dr. carson. i'm not saying they can't cross those two thresholds but they aren't crossing it consistently. >> harold, if robert's reporting adds up to rubio sort of them ultimately coalescing around him, would you be happy or sad to see rubio verses clinton? >> i think whomever the republicans put forward, the clinton campaign will be ready. i think a carson bush race would be great. whose ready to take the call and make decisions based on facts and accurate command and understanding of the facts?

listening to the republicans and mrs. clinton not only high fiveing but saying we are in a good position we're ready to be president. >> still ahead, we're looking at new reporting about one of ben carson's business relationships plus peggy joins us with her thoughts and former secretary will be here. bill karens has a check on the teurbulent night in the midwest. >> it was rural areas hit the hardest. we didn't see any huge tornados but a lot of clean up to be done and also a lot of tree damage too. let's take you to what we're dealing with now. we have a lot of problems and still seeing the winds around this storm howling at a 48-mile an hour gust. a lot of people reporting as they're sleeping.

they can hear the wind battering their windows and homes. there's not a ton of rain left and thunderstorms. low area of rain and settled in wisconsin. northern portions of the great lakes. forecast for today, the dangerous wind storm continues throughout portions of the great lakes. little rain around new york city. airport delays. o'hare, detroit, deep south all the way through the southeast looks fine. the northwest is the next storm. you're going to get a lot of rain over the next few days. you can be up to a foot of rain in the mountains and washington. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back.

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yesterday carly responded to hillary clinton laughing off a veteran's joke about the republican presidential candidate. she told a story about working under fiorina working at hewitt

pack ard. >> there's 20,000 of us and we get laid off and a couple of months after we get laid off, 20,000 people she bought two jets to fly people around the country and she says she's a great ceo. every time i see her on tv, i want to reach through and strangle her. i know that doesn't sound nice. >> i wouldn't mess with you. >> i can understand why someone who was laid off might feel badly about it. it was a tough time. i think he has his facts wrong about the two corporate jets but understand he might be frustrated by that. it was a time time and we had to make tough callings to save 80,000 jobs. i don't take am braj with him or mrs. clinton.

the liberal media would be all over us to correct him to apologize. >> all right, mark, talk about that response to what she said. also action what's the status in terms of your reporting of carly's campaign. she did well at the debate. >> i think she's right. we're in a media double standard the time of momentum and debate performances have passed. she needs to raise money and her polls need to go up. her debate performances are excellent. she's the most improved candidate by far but she's going to have to start proving she can compete in states electorally.

>> mark, she obviously still wants to be president. as she goes through the debates and so good at going after hillary clinton. is she someone they may be looking at as a vice president? >> she may not be the first to add to the ticket when she's going to be a bigger target than mitt romney in terms of the issue of jobs and job creation. >> the must read opinion pages are next. one week from tomorrow our know your value movement is going to orlando, florida. we have an incredible group of women taking the stage. martha stewart, racheal ray and

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amid-krutmy, a new story this morning on the famous neurosurgeon's fraud. carson and his wife earn hundreds of thousands through real-estate with a pittsburgh dentist who pleaded guilty to one count of -- in america the beautiful carson writes there would be some very stiff penalties for this kind of fraud

such of loss of one's medical license for life, no less than 10 years in prison and loss of all of one's personal possessions. one said i will confirm they're best friends and they do business investments together. is there another slippery answer to this like the one where he's not pushing the drug but on the website. >> you're right about the answers. >> i'm right about it. >> he was compensated for speeches, not endorsement. >> okay.

not endorsement but did speeches for them about how much he likes the drug and makes him feel better and not get sick. that's not actually selling it, right. or is that a slippery way of not telling the truth, mark? >> they say he did not authorize it and not approve it posting the videos. it's different. if they're telling the truth, it's different than making an endorsement video. >> in tuesday night's debate he bunk led a question about foreign policy. he seems to think china is fighting if syria and he talked about making the islamic state look like losers. last week he was flum iksed about immigration.

they are flaking at him. there's not enough of these voters to get carson the presidency nor probably the nomination. carson supporters won't care as long as he gives testimony about how he changed his life. am i being too harsh and shrill? i'm getting, well, at least from -- i'm getting a blank stair which means something else. >> i have no comment on mark's blank stare but you're not wrong. i wrote a piece trying to understand what is he trying to say and the idea he's a front runner, that he is competing with donald trump to be the

undisputed front runner in the republican party is not mystifying to me because i understand where the support is coming from but what i don't understand is why these people who support ben carson are not concerned about his lock of preparation, about his lack of knowledge. you don't have to be a politician to run for president or to earn people's support but at some point people are going to have to take a step back and say you know, this guy is not ready to be president, shouldn't be president and certainly doesn't know enough and doesn't seem to care he doesn't know enough to be in the oval office making very important decisions that impact millions upon millions of people's lives. >> was john edwards ready to be president in november of 2007? >> look, mark, you know what, i felt more comfortable about the idea of senator john edwards

being president of the united states in 2004 than i do about ben carson being president of the united states in 2016. >> you know, ben carson said yesterday something he says a lot which is his supporters respond to. he's at linberty university and he said all his attacks are who he is and who he stands for. he believes we in the media and people in washington don't share that view of the world and therefore, can't stand him and don't want to be president. that can always be his response to his supporters anyway that he can say they are out to get us all and i'm here representing you. >> what's interesting to me is it's a combination of a 50 year cycle. for a long time explicitly

religious folks who were not strongly engaged in the political arena. they disgusted the political arena. they were more interested in the kingdom of the next world than this world. then came the early 1960s at a school player decision and then came row verses wade in 1973. you had the rise of the that jorty in time for the 1980 campaign. it was a democrat, jimmy carter and so this is an interesting development that one of the rationals for the carson candidacy is to make the point that a person of explicit religious faith should be running for president in part simply because of that explicit faith. that's something rather different than what religious folks have been historically in terms of politics. >> he has a lot of traits a lot of americans want.

>> that's one of them. it's a great american story in his biography. he's a kind man, a smart man, a man of accomplishment, a man of faith and a man who thinks america needs fundamental change. those are traits they want. i think to focus his, the question of dwhy he's getting support on his faith is a mistake. he has a lot of other stuff. >> a text came in from someone. i understand the point of view. i'm trying to take that into consideration. he tried to kill his mother for god sake. are we missing something and i don't understand sometimes when you almost seem to be defending the indefensible. we have been listening to this man talk in a flat monotoned tone about taking a hammer to his mother's head.

i understand it was part of the process to find his faith but are we to be a little disturbed by the way he describes these situations? it sounds, i want to be very careful with my words but he doesn't sound completely for everything. do you think he's a good solid candidate? >> i don't think he understands a lot of foreign policy issues and speaks as if he does. it's not only confusing for him but sends signals to people around the globe.

him as a person, this is an incredible biography. again, the stuff in the book, i done read the book and seen the excerp excerp exfrom it. there's some people in the media that get uncomfortable when they talk about the faith. >> i don't mean to pick on president bush 43 but he drove drunk with his teenage sister in the car when he was around the age that dr. carson said tried to attack his mother. was that disqualifying? >> no, it's a troubling story and i know stories about democratic senators and presidents who acted horrifically. i'm just saying all of these things coming together now, so

early in the process, i don't see this guy fitting into the rest of the field. help me out here. what am i trying to say i am. >> i'm sitting here wondering, with the support ben carson is getting, why isn't that support going to governor huckabee? they don't have the same biography. i have to tell you, if i have to choose between governor huckabee and governor carson, both men of profound faith that are open and talking about their faith, if i have to choose between the two of them, i would take governor huckabee because at least i would know as former chief ex executive of state and someone to sit in the oval office and be president of the united states, again, i don't agree with

probably a hundred percent of what governor huckabee stands for on foreign policy but i have to tell you between him and dr. carson, i would be much more comfortable with governor huckabee sitting in the oval office. >> chime in. i'll try to be more articulate here. let's focus on his answers on foreign policy over the past 24-48 hours. help me out. what's going on. >> carson is still trying to find his way. i've been struggling in iowa. they pass around a copy of a movie called gifted hands. the conservatives pass it around with such effection for this biography. when i talk to rival campaigns, they say go after the man, the carson industry, how he became a money making machine, that's something they think they could make an issue. >> gifted hands produced around his story but him actually

talking at the debate and interviews, there's a difference, isn't there. >> i think there's absolutely a difference. i see your point. a presidential campaign cannot simply be this is your life. it has to be about our lives and the life of the nation. yes, there has to be a great bigraphicb biographical story. the man of hope and candidates have told narratives about themselves. >> apparently, it's doing quiet

well. >> up next, how jeb bush's struggling presidential bid might be able to learn a thing or two from john kerry. why derry's 2004 campaign may be the blue print for bush to win. you're watching morning joe. we'll explain that. the manpower the will mobilizing to take on the world? you don't know "aarp" aarp and aarp foundation are taking on hunger with 31 million meals donated drive to end hunger teams with local agencies to reach the hungriest among us if you don't think ending hunger when you think aarp then you don't know "aarp" find more surprising possibilities and get to know us at aarp.org/possibilities at&t and directv are now one.

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affairs of the nation and the world would be safe and that's a particular kind of gift, a particular kind of charisma that doesn't fit into the usual categories and so your dad created a much more difficult literary task in writing about him which you know because you did it. >> mine was a different perspective starting with you and every president. >> that was george w. bush interviewing john meacham about george h.w. bush. mike has a piece suggesting jeb bush should follow the model of john kerry's 2004 campaign. he was at 4% and went on to win in iowa. what can jeb learn from john

kerry? >> he was. this is one of the more convincing ones i've heard. you go to the spin room after any of these debates and one of the top influences from the bush folks is in new hampshire voters decide in the last few days. in iowa, they also decide late. so the case here is that a boring but respected candidate can hang on, outlast and win. this is the point we were making earlier. our theory is jeb bush with his money can hold on while the other folks are vetted and sort themselves out. the question is, is mark's freak show now the show? has times changed so much? >> isn't this the bush campaign's strategy? hang in there.

we have a candidate still standing in the end and let other people follow the wayside as he rises. >> and take advantage of the low expectations. carry was written off more than bush is now. carry was given the debate in milwaukee. writing him off now is foolish and when we get closer to iowa, if he finishes with 12% of the vote but beats marco rubio, he'll be right back in the thick of it. >> john, what can jeb learn from john kerry and his own family. >> well, neither bush won the republican nomination without going negative inn an effective way. 1998 after he lost iowa and came in third behind dole and pat robert son. he came back and took a strong statement about taxes and ran against bob dole calling him

senat senator straddle and turning those numbers around. and then we forget this. a lot of folks forget it. in 2000, george w. bush was clobbered in new hampshire by john mccain and came back strong in south carolina. so the bush story is not one of automatic coronation. they do have to work hard for it. they have to campaign hard for it. and i think the big question everyone seems to have is does governor bush have that particular gene? >> that seems to be the point. you're going to have models and your father and john kerry. this is a different candidate than any of those three. >> yeah. governor bush has been out there telling us to write his come back story. >> he's never had a contested

primary like this. they said if bush 43 were facing trump and rubio and carson he would be mowing them down. >> i think trump's wild card still, i think he's doing a lot better than people expected and people at some point need to except he could be around but ben carson is making this look like the last go round where ultimately a more establishment and a more quiet frankly appropriate candidate will emerge in the long run that may not be emerging right now. i'm sorry. i'm getting tons of texts and now they're from republicans saying they don't get this thing and at some point people have to say it. so many expect this will probably come down to a

marco-cruz final. there's always that asterisk, trump and carson. you don't know what happens with that. >> mark, interesting piece in your magazine. good to see you. >> it was cut from saturday night live but we have a look at security mission from trump to reserve one of america's greatest resources. >> unfortunately, we have entail forces outside our control could strike. >> what is it? >> we'll show you the never before seen sketch next. ke rees "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪

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snl released a skit that was cut from saturday night's show. a secret ops unit tasked with protecting a security interest, that being president trump's hair during a critical meeting with russian president putin. >> he's completely exposed out there. we're sending you in where we need it most. donald trump's hair. prepare to shrink.

donald trump's hair. they are scout team six. >> getting breezy out here. i'm not liking it. >> we're making our approach. >> big landing. >> okay team, take the scalp. >> we got to stabilize the perimeter. everybody grab a hair. the wind is too strong. >> i can't get a grip. >> how are we doing with that hair spray? >> not good. this is just medium hold. >> no one's heard from putin. i've got to tell you this is really windy and getting very, very uncomfortable. >> it's time for the last resort. >> what are we going to do? >> detonate this. >> what is that, dynamite? >> no, it's l.a. looks hair jell. >> how about it? >> you could use some of that.

>> hair gel. >> oh my gosh. >> come pg ing up at top of the. the republican front runner called for a deportation force like dwight eisenhower's from the 1950s. this morning skepticism is growing from that idea. and as the iraqi kurds try to take back the city, ben carson wanted influence in the area of the chinese. peggy joins us to break down the republican field. we'll be right back. how are they always one step ahead of us? well, because their technology is far superior. or because they have someone on the inside. is that right, gil? sir, i would never... he's with them! he's wearing a wire. take off his shirt! take off his shirt! oh! ah! alright, i'm putting you in charge of the holiday party. (vo) get rid of cable and upgrade to directv. call 1-800-directv. i tried depend last weekend. it really made the difference

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all right. welcome back to morning joe. it is thursday, november 12th. with us on set we have managing editor of bloomberg politics mark. we have the author of the new book destiny in power, john meacham. in washington, the washington post robert costa and joining the conversation senior politics editor jackie and in washington editor and publisher of the report and columnist. is someone face timing you? let's do it. we'll bring them in.

your niece? how cute. we're going to get to the top story. it's on the front page of major papers across the country, certainly the headline. what he said in the debate and what he said on our show about a deportation force. i feel like our first block hour was describing ike's plan as what trump would do. that's not what we're saying. he's saying it would be humane. is that realistic? we can talk about that. he was very forth coming on morning joe about his immigration policy. >> you were good. you said practically, how do you

do it? >> he came close to saying very humanely. >> what does that mean? >> that means people would be removed if they go. it's like i'm having a hard time invisioning it in this day and age. having said that, i think he's not talking about busting into homes and dragging people out. >> not politely. saying we'll wait and get your things. >> well, we'll have to ask him what inhumanely means in the next interview. what's great is they show up for interview, do interviews and stay and answer the question. i'm not going to go after him for my not following up on what inhumanely means. let's get to ben carson. he hasn't been on this show yet. i'm not sure he ever will be. >> it's been a rough first hour. >> i'm getting texts from democrats and republicans saying you're on a different planet

than everyone else on the set. i'm just going to read the news. ben carson turned some heads over some of his comments at tuesday night's debate on american foreign policy particularly with respect to syria. here's what he said followed by comments he made in virginia. >> putting the special ops people in there is better than not having them there. they're actually able to guide some of the other things we're doing there. what we have to recognize is that putin is trying to really spread his influence throughout the middle east. this is going to be his base. we have to oppose him there in an effective way. we have to recognize it's a very complex place. the chinese are there as well as the russians and you have all kinds of factions there. >> some questions have been raised about your suggestion

last night that china is involved in syria. can you clarify that? >> well, china has been trying to extend its influence not only throughout the middle east but throughout africa. their interest extends as well. >> do we work with the militias backed by iran already on the ground fighting with isis? what do you think about that? >> i don't think we have to make a deal with the double in order to get this. >> even though they're already fighting against isis, we can work independently in your view. >> i don't like the idea of getting in bed with the did he feel. devil. >> mark, charlie, jackie, each of you just boom, boom, boom.

is it concerning at all that the front runner believes the chinese are in syria? >> yes. >> thank you. charlie cook. is it concerning? >> i think listening to dr. carson, this is not a substance. this is not a content rich conversation. i mean, there's not a lot there. he's a very kind descent man with a good bedside manner but if pressed, there's a lotless that he does know than he doesn't in terms of public policy. this is just another example of that. >> jackie. >> ben carson is a genius when it comes to the medical field. that doesn't extend to foreign policy as we saw in that answer and this isn't uncommon for candidates who don't have any foreign policy experience. we've seen this in the past with lots of candidates and donald trump when he was talking about surrounding the oil field with troops after he bombs them. there is a disconnect.

commander in chief is an essential part of the job. if you can't show you can command the armed forces, you have a serious problem becoming president. >> yes. willie. >> i'll repeat what i said last hour. it is frightening that a person who wants to be commander in chief is taking a discredited report from a month ago. he's been a candidate now for six months and as serious people working on his campaign that could help him understand some of the issues around the world. if six months in you're making mistakes like that, that should be a concern. >> mark, is it concerning one minute a candidate is supporting a minimum wage increase and then in the debate says he's against it. >> yes. that's also a complicated issue.

he's also said outrageous things. >> is it concerning to you he says things like a muslim can't be president? >> it is. >> possibly a game changer. >> it is. as you know, 70% of republicans in iowa agree with him. >> a lot of things people like you see as weaknesses are not as a matter of politics a concern for people supporting him now. in the internet age and age of talk radio, the establishment doesn't have enough power to say to someone like dr. carson, sorry, you're not the right guy. the power isn't there. >> at what point does it become an establishment became synonymous with issue literacy? >> jeb bush and john kasich are hoping that's not the case. >> everybody does. the establishment, there's carson and trump and the

establishment, that means they've run for office which is kind of the way we've done things. >> paul ryan told me the night of the debate. people have no experience in public life. >> he also said medicare should be abolished. >> we've gotten to a point where experiencen experience and expertise has become a disqualifier. i would point to the three outsiders. trump, carson, fiorina. none of them have ever held public office whatsoever. if you at least look at fiorina, this is someone who has studied these issues, who has mastered them and who is absolutely 100% conversely in these things. in a sharp contrast with carson and trump who is a millimeter deep.

it is striking to me. i don't think it hurts them within their individual basis. it does keep them from growing beyond that point. >> i wouldn't put trump in carson's category at all. you cannot compare those two at all. i think that's a little -- i mean there's a complete difference between ben carson and what he has brought to the table and donald trump. his years after experience and saying the same thing and his interest in being in politics is not brand new and out of nowhere and he doesn't have anything to hide that seems, everything is hanging out. completely different candidate. completely different. i would think. >> can i ask something? people i talk to understand trump historically. p populist appeal. others don't quiet get carson and don't see which part of the

base is supporting him. >> carson is doing better with trump and home school families, doing better with women than trump is in a lot of places. he is also like barack obama, a candidate of the digital age. he has an extraordinary following on facebook and extraordinary following in church communities that goes over the head of not just the old media and new media too. he directly communicates with supporters in a way he liked and liked to hear from him. every night on facebook he's communicating with people. not just his biography but heismaner and state. when you ask supporters what does he have going for him? faith, the lord, his own biography and own connection to people they find him to be the right leader for these times. with all his flaws and lack of

specificity. >> he views it as evidence that secular progressives, i don't want to throw everyone here in that group but do not understand him and his candidacy. to him, this conversation is more evidence for him of why he needs to be out there fighting for people who are not like people on tv. >> that's like meachum level. >> yeah. 2,000 people. >> any city in the country he gets a thousand people. >> right. >> let's talk about donald trump and the issue of immigration. mr. trump's plan to deport undocumented immigrants from the country. here he is beginning with his exclusive appearance on morning joe. >> tell me how. are you going to have a massive deportation force? >> you're going to have a deportation force. you're going to do it humanely. >> how are you going to pay for this? >> it's going to be expensive. they can come back but they have

to come back legally. dwight eisenhower sent millions of people, a million and a half minimum people out in illegal immigrants. he sent them out. brought them out, brought them to the border, let them go, they came back. let them go a third time and they came back. the fourth time he moved them all the way south and back again. >> eisenhower's deportation of a million immigrants, that at times was humane. they dropped immigrants off in the middle of the desert and others were shipped off in cargo ships. how would your plan be different? >> very humanely done. very important.

>> you have to check on that. truman before ike sent 3.5 million people out. >> he's saying he wouldn't do it exactly the way eisenhower or truman did it but in a more humane fashion. how do you remove 11-13 million people from their -- it's world war ii to mid-60s. you can't just throw that away. there need to be a plan and no one has thought of a way to do this. >> look at this picture.

keep it up. or not. just the people, the response that donald trump is unbelievable. look at that. these people are like, i have never seen anything like it. have you? >> i have never in my career. >> i have never seen anything like it. >> in terms of enthusiasm, size, all the above. >> the response to him, it's not just about the celebrity. >> it's like the beetles. look at that girl's face. >> he gets a reaction unlike anyone else. it's not just celebrity. they're inspired by him. >> there's something else. >> charlie, i'm just wondering, first of all, your thoughts on donald trump's immigration policy as he's laid it out so far and him as a number one candidate. you seem to lump him together with ben carson. >> well, i think they're the same and they're different.

let's talk about the depor station thing. this could be a great job creation opportunity if you think about it. we hire a hundred thousand federal employees to each take a hundred illegal immigrants and deport them. or maybe we take 10,000 to a thousand. i'm joking, of course. but how do you create this? even if it were moral and ethical, you would be creating a huge bur rocs -- bur bureaucrac. they're very religious and see him as a kind, gentle role model. good bedside manner kind of thing. they look at the trump people or look at trump as a man whose vain and profane and brags about having been on the cover of playboy back in march of 1990

with clothes on. they're not the same groups. people ceaser son as one of the most boring people on the planet. they're different groups which keeps either one from consolidating this big angry crew. that's why i think they're distinct. when one slides the other one doesn't necessarily pick up all their support. >> how would you describe ben carson's knowledge and vision on foreign policy from what you've seen? >> about a millimeter thick. it's almost not there. and you know, with him, his base, that probably doesn't hurt. but it contains him. it keeps him from being able to reach out. >> what are you saying about the base? >> well, it's his base. as i said before, the republican party, there is an element of the republican party, roughly half the party that literally

does think experience and expertise are disqualifiers. they are so angry. they are looking for whatever in their mind is the opposite of a politician. so for some of them, donald trump is the opposite of a politician. for others, that person is ben carson. for others it's carly. they're all looking for the antithesis of what they come to mind as politicians who promise everything and all this. it's going to be hard for any of these people to pull it all together. each one has their own unique appeal. >> all right. charlie cook, thank you all for being on this morning. still ahead, lord william hade, the former british secretary joins us to talk about why nations should be arming serian rebels. plus what led jeb bush to do a chest bump on the campaign

trail. the wall street journal is here with her thoughts on the at th. you can tickets and information on msnbc.com/knowyourvalue. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. for calling. we'll be with you shortly. yeah right... xerox predictive analytics help companies provide a better and faster customer experience. hello mr. kent. can i rebook your flight? i'm here! customer care can work better. with xerox. wait i'm here! mr. kent? (gasp) shark diving! xerox personalized employee portals help companies make benefits simple and accessible... from anywhere. hula dancing? cliff jumping! human resources can work better. with xerox. ♪

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dole has multiple ties to the political dynasties involved in the 2016 race. he ran against george h.w. bush for the g.o.p. nomination not once but twice. did it in 1980 and 1988. in 1996 when he finally became the nominee, he ran against bill clinton in the general election. jeb bush was back in iowa following the fourth republican debate and at one point shared a chest bump with a man he said

was abandoning his role. in between events bush acknowledged his on stage debates and has room for improvement. >> how do you improve on last night's performance? >> i'll do better. i thought it was fine. i did well. talked about issues important to people. we need to start thinking about whose the person that can beat hillary clinton rather than trying to get into small differences between each campaign. >> can senator rubio beat secretary clinton? >> i'm a better bet. >> why? >> i've got a proven record and i campaign in a way that is based on that record and based on the ideas i have that are about the future and i've been vetted, i've been tested. i'm an open book. >> that's jeb bush in iowa. yesterday, joining us now peg by noonan, her ninth book time of

our lives debuting this week on the new york times best seller list. congratulations. >> the market discounted that. it goes right to the top. >> good morning. >> it's good to see you. >> wonderful to see you. >> joe had a great time at the 92nd wine ri with you. >> he made it an event. he brought charisma and it became exciting and it was a nice evening. >> it was fantastic. >> i think you make it the event too, peggy. we talked to you a little bit last week. we've had a debate since. you've watched jeb bush try to strengthen himself and show that he can be something other than he's been for the last few months. what's your impression right now? >> i think it's interesting. i think it was a pretty good debate the other night because it brought out. it actually made the contenders the star and it brought out of

them their real disagreements or rather the beginning of their disagreements. we're entering a big fight here. jeb himself, i think he achieved add -- adequate. i think it was three steps up. there's also a nice thing sometimes you see in a front runner as he use to be known sometimes politics and life come over a bit in public and they become more humble and they fight harder and they find reserves within themselves to fight. so we may be seeing an interesting story there. maybe not, but maybe. >> what do you make of ben carson, especially his debate performance and answers on foreign policy? i don't know if you heard the conversation i had. i boxed myself in a corner here. i don't see it at all. >> he clearly is a man who for the past 20, 30, 40 years has not been filling his brain space

with information on foreign affairs. he has been filling his brain space with other things from dr. things to sort of cultural figure things. can i throw in part of what i think is going on here. somebody said in the previous segment they thought half the republican base is so angry at political insiders that in their anger they're supporting trump and their anger they're supporting ben, dr. ben. here's how i'm starting to see it. i feel like a lot of americans looking at the past 15 years and they're saying okay, what have we had there? we've had two unwon wars blowing up. the refugee crisis and the world seeming to blow up an economic collapse. bad indo sis on american republican education.

a culture more bizarre than ever each day. they look and think nothing got worse. who gave us these 15 years? the most trained and credentialed political figures in the world. so maybe we have to look for different credentials. >> peggy, i understand why donald trump captures that with a positive message make america great again. just before you say this is mika talking about ben carson. obviously, she thinks he's a joke. i think trump graval me n galva way. i think she's performed brilliantly. jeb bush has run florida. john kasich, they both have experience.

these are credible candidates. this candidate, every day there's a story that literally trumps the next in terms of it being ridiculous or something he's saying being slippery or baseless. am i alone here? >> you're not alone. here's a question that i guess voter s are going to have to as. it's understandable. you want different credentials, different experiences, different attainments. go outside. try something new. that's completely understandable. you have to keep it in your mind. you can get an outsider, you can get someone unusual. they can still make it worse if you know what i mean. there's no guarantee of progress if you pick somebody from the outside. >> okay. >> does that in part answer your question? >> i think dr. carson disturbs you. >> he does.

i think there's a lot of people disturbed and then they come on television and they're like well, he's the front runner and you know, he has faith. >> yes. >> not just a front runner but he hand trump for this is a trend. it's not a plip or a moment. it's been going on for a hundred days. these guys are in the lead. atty certa at a certain point the rubber is going to meet the road. a certain trump reporter came up and i haven't seen her in a few weeks. i said so, are you going to support her and are you going to vote for him? for the first time she paused and i said what's going on and she said i'm not sure i have the guts. >> interesting. >> we sort of talked around that. i think the meaning of what she was saying was i'm really for him, i like him but i understand this is unusual on a stretch and i'm not sure in the poling booth as we use to call it i've got the guts to follow up on my

convictions. she didn't say she didn't but she wasn't sure she did. >> john meacham. >> two of the presidents you wrote for, one in particular could be seen as an outsider because he spent his working life in hollywood. >> he felt like an outsider. two term governor and leader of a great political movement what's wrong with experience? >> i don't think people are thi thinking experience itself is a bad thing.

we are all people who watch politics closely who know and believe poll tilks itics is a profession. i would think twice before picking for the top political job in america someone who had never held a political job. it is a reasonable thing to have doubts about that. >> the book is. >> it's not experience itself. >> the book is the time of our lives. i love it. i heard you say that. >> i shouldn't say that. but i do. >> i heard you say that. it was touching. >> are you going to plug your

book now? >> no, a backless plug. what i saw at the revolution was one of the greatest books about washington in history. >> thank you, sir. >> you can buy them both together. >> oh my god. okay. >> was that too vulgar? maybe i went over the line. >> no, no i'm not. >> thank you so much. we'll be right back. its offici! what? wow... yeah! okay... guys, i'll be writing a new language for machines so planes, trains, even hospitals can work better. oh! sorry, i was trying to put it away... got it on the cake. so you're going to work on a train? not on a train...on "trains"! you're not gonna develop stuff anymore? no i am... do you know what ge is? i tried depend last weekend. it really made the difference between a morning around the house and getting a little exercise.

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:she taught me we are the family love built. we have no room for hate. >> she's my sochblt. >> although my grandfather and the other victims died, everyone's plea for your soul is proof they lived and loved. >> toez were some of the family

members. i get chills listening to that forgiveness. especially when it came so quickly after as well. they are part of time magazine's new special report on charleston, what it takes to forgive a killer. msnbc contributor. the recover story, i have, a lot of us went down there you have a character of two dimensional evil who shot up a bible study. there was a man hunt and instead of the race war there was a

pageant of amazing grace. the present came down at a funeral and he's erupted in song. the families of the victims not 48 hours later said they fore gave him and then there was a sense the curtain came down and end of scene. the fact of, that isn't the end of the story and some stories are worth continuing to tell it's far more complicated than it seems. there's a church in crisis even as they've been brought together by the strategy and there's lots and lots of divisions. this is a story as though it seemed simple and seemed as the ending is packed but it's anything but. i'll never forget where i was.

you had the shooter on the television screen and one by one the victim's families coming up saying i forgive you. i was stunned by that and so impressed. >> it was stunning, willie and a moment of national grace, not just the grace in charlts ton for all of us to see that and witness that, frankly. how much grace and their hearts and that moment of tragedy and intense pain they offered and my question for ben is because you talked about it a little bit but not all of the family members, despite that moment have actually fore given. nine families with nine individual walks. there's a reason they were at wednesday night bible study. many of us go to church on holidays.

these are people going once a week isn't enough. they did believe in the worlds they were reading. all of them see this as some journ journey of their faith. they were divided and words being put in their mouth. there was a sense lots of us in the media, the public reaction was also denying them the ability to grieve publicly. this is a profound lost. run of the reasons this is a special story, two of our reporters spent several weeks living in charleston.

>> former editor of chief writes about some small signs you saw. they reflect genuine intellectual interest driven by emotional empathy. to better understand neighbors they have long taken for granted long estimated for ignored. >> we turn to john because he lives in charleston. he could speak from the per spebtive and understand what things are like before all this came down. charleston, as we all know, the past remains present there in a very profound way. >> fort sump sumter, precisely.

>> thank you so much. the new issue is on newsstands tomorrow. up next, the serian opposition has rejected a plan for peace. former secretary joins us with his thoughts on the many hot spots around the world and what to do. we'll be right back. u brought a? i wanna see, i wanna see. longing. serendipity. what are the... chances. and good tidings to all. hang onto your antlers. it's the event you don't want to miss. it's the season of audi sales event. get up to a $2,500 bonus for highly qualified lessees on select audi models. you owned your car for four you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends. three jobs. you're like "nothing can replace brad!"

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the first foreign policy question, i'm going to ask politics in america, what's it looking like? especially the republican field. what do they think of ben

carson? what are you feeling? >> whole war of independence, british people don't tell you. >> donald trump, do they ask about these people? >> there are candidates in this election on both sides who are enormously respected across the world. there may be other candidates who the rest of the world are puzzled about. i leave it to you to judge what we mean? >> british labor party that we're also puzzled by too. >> exactly. this is true. >> more puzzled that anything in america. >> ian, take it away. >> let's talk about the issue of the russians in syria. they've put a deal together. they've quickly, the serian opposition said no. how much of this do you think is the americans not prepared to actually sit down and work things out for the russians. do you see a different perspective in working for the russians in syria? >> well, we've been trying.

americans and others have been trying to put them together for years. i set there in geneva for hours and days and weeks and trying to negotiate on syria. russia was the obstacle to that. we have to remember that here. russia in the driving seat of this is unlikely to produce a solution. i think it's important for other countries including the united states not to let the russians be the ones setting the agenda on this. >> what's the danger there if that happens? >> the danger there is there isn't a solution. a proposed solution which leaves the outside regime nonexisting and a part of syria. that's the case of proposals. it's not one that's ever worked. his departure from anything

running some part. >> a new constitution. >> does that mean we don't have to engage in putting together a diplomatic proposal? not on the ground in order to have credibility. even though we know that the actual proximate military goals were not going to be serving so great? >> when you say military on the ground, i wouldn't say send forces on the ground in the serian conflict. a lot is going on in the air.

that should be intensified and it is time we reverse that and that's what i've been saying in britain. it's also important to

pay african forces to do a lot of the fighting against terrorism and with our ships offshore and we bring together the developmental support, diplomatic support for the legitimate government in mogadishu. i think there will need it be much more that sort of intervention where states are failing and collapsing in the next 10 or 20 years and our armed forces need to be equipped for that sort of intervention

supporting local armed forces in their work. >> lord william hague, thank you very much. they're jealous. they would like to be lords, too. >> well, it takes a long time. but, you know, and you have to, british. >> well, there you go. you're out, willie. >> i'll appoint myself a lord right now. >> lord willie geist. it works. not really. thanks very much. a day to remember. veterans touring the george w. bush library got quite a surprise yesterday. and look at the challenges ahead for our veterans with paul rykoff. we'll be right back. uncertain. but you can feel confident in our investment experience... ... around the world. call a t. rowe price investment specialist, or your advisor... ...and see how we can help you

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up next, ben carson's comments on foreign policy are raising some eyebrows. and why marco rubio is standing in a no-attack zone when it comes to his republican rivals. plus donald trump is taking a page from president dwight eisenhower when it comes to immigration and his comparison is drawing some to you questions. "morning joe" will be right back. the new 2016 ram limited. you don't have to be a king to be treated like one.

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maybe it's just me. but it seemed like the bell got more distracting. we went from 350,000 lost jobs. -- >> keep going, you dummies -- >> now this statute! [ bells ringing ] ♪ ♪ >> good morning. it is thursday, november 12th. welcome to "morning joe." we have a lot to talk about this morning. our interview with donald trump, willie, i think it might have caused some news waves. >> he always makes a wave. >> he always makes a wave. with us this morning we have the managing editor mark halperin and former democratic

congressman harold ford jr. and on capitol hill political reporter for "the washington post," robert costa. jon meacham is coming up as well. we began with immigration. here's what donald trump said yesterday about his plans to deport all undocumented immigrants from the country beginning with his exclusive appearance on our show in manchester. >> tell me the how. are you going to have a massive deportation force? >> you're going to have a deportation force. and you're going to do it humanely. >> how are you going to pay for this? >> very inexpensively. are they going to get ripped out their homes? >> that are going from where they came. if they came from a certain country, they go back to that country. they can come back but can come

back illegally. dwight eisenhower, brought them to the border, they came back, let them go again, they came back, they them go again and they came back and after the third time he moved them all the way south and they didn't come back. >> do you know what the term he used for it was? >> yes, but i wouldn't use that. >> according to a 2006 "christian science monitor" report, eisenhower employed a west minute clapoint classmate d of the operation and it took tens of thousands in custody in

states and while thousands of others left voluntarily. according to some, many were left stranded and some died from heat stroke. trump reacted this way. >> eisenhower's 1952 deportation that was at times anything but humane. it would drop immigrants off in the middle of the desert where they died of heat stroke, others were isn't on cargo ships. how would your plan be different? >> very humanely, very different. >> how? >> it's called management practices. >> believe me, mr. trump, that was brutal to those people to kick them back. the stuff they did was really brutal. it could never happen today. >> i've heard it both ways. >> you know me -- >> we would do it in a very

humane way. truman sent 3.5 million people out. but truman before ike sent 3.5 million people out. >> a politico check wassin able to confirm a truman deported 2.5 immigrants out after world war ii, which historians say was unlikely. >> donald trump has a always said we need to send immigrants back. i think it's the reference to eisenhower that's raised a lot of eyebrows. was it a concerted effort to reference eisenhower? did this come up out of the blue? now it's allowed his critics to latch on to something and compare it to certainly that people thought was entirely inhumane in 1954.

>> is definitely part of trump's strategy. he said there still remains a very visible fault line when it comes to immigration. the debate exposed it once again. they believe the trump campaign, that as this campaign continues to unfold, the base will stick with them and perhaps with senator cruz and others with their same position and not with bush, kasich and rubirubio, whoy believe they can tag as pro amnesty. >> he looked like a man alone on the stage the or night. i think they view this, perhaps for him, as a vulnerability. >> there's the policy issue and a lot of skepticism that wa donald trump is proposing could ef be done. there's a lot of business opposition, the american economy would be threatened if he took those people out in short term. but from a political point of view, this is a real division within the republican party and

people are worried that donald trump's rhetoric on immigration will leave people very vulnerable in a general election. there's no doubt that that rhetoric produces high 5s at the clinton campaign. and donald trump is full steam ahead on this. >> let's bring in author of the new book "destiny and power," jon meecham, your thoughts on this becoming a reality? >> i'm almost always in favor of any illusion to a dead president. what struck me about it is it's trump moving almost into a different phase where he wants to make arguments based on history, using analogies in order to somewhat made the point

the other day that he seemed even slightly more conventional as a candidate the other night. and, you know, again, when you invoke history, you're almost always looking for sanction or you're trying to offer a warning. and clearly here he's looking for sanction about something that politically is going to be very toxic because fundamentally the country has always become stronger the wider we've opened our arms, not the tighter we've held them to ourselves. >> thank you very much. >> robert costa, you're referencing rubio's's rival' reluctance to -- both steered clear of rubio on tuesday

night's debate. splan what you think the strategy is here in your reporting. >> it's really a reaction to rubio's rise in national polling. when you speak to people in the donor class in the republican party and rbi rival campaigns, they think that rubio remains a star. they want to beat him for the nomination, but they don't want to see him bruised up in the battle to get there because he's young, he's his span ek, a d die -- >> they know he can counter. >> what do you think, harold? >> i think it's probably true. after watching governor bush attempt to punch hmm and not have a counterpunch, there a knows doubt and there's some belief he may be the future. i remember right after the republican loss last go-round, they conducted one autopsies and

talk differently about accepting people into the country. it's just amazing to me how mr. trump in one wing of the party has completely ignored that and in one wing has embraced it. the on thing is that rubio seems to be party of the party that has at least read that autopsy report and blofs in some of it. perhaps that plays into it as well. >> i think this tact that trump is taking will help him with primary voters. am i correct, halperin? >> it certainly will help him with the portion of the primary electorate he wants to get. >> this is 70% of the people supporting it. >> and marco rubio was a supporter of the path for citizenship and he no longer is. i think eventually if there are big attacks on a tackin on many

figure gaeg and he has to be more specific on the touries it seas they're an inconsistent command on the subject matter among the candidates, a sharp contrast with sure follow congressional hearing last month. first iraq and theifies against isis packed by u.s.ary power, kurdish officials say some 7 -- the islam being state captured the city in august of 201 and an attempt to retake it stalled four months later.

>> putting the special ops people in there is better than not having them there because they -- that's why they're called special ops. they're actually able to guide some of the other things that we're doing there. and what we have to recognize is that putin is trying to really spread his influence throughout the middle east. this is going to be his base. and we have to oppose him there in an effect of way. we also must recognize that it's a very complex place. you know, the chinese are there as well as the russians and you have all kind of factions there. >> some questions have been raised about your suggestion last night that china is involved in earia. can you clarify that?

>> trying to extend ice influence i would have to rerefer you to some other people to get you the actual data but they've shown it to me. >> harold? >> i'd say two things. i speak english but i don't always fully understand what he's saying when he respond to these things. he's being ill sfrd here. and if who doesn't -- he's leading in the polls. if i was advising his campaign, i would say just stay away from those questions until we put you in front somebody who can understand. if you have allies around the world, diplomats in washington.

>> completely confusing and really frittening for or ce. politically i is it i guess i appreciate his honesty -- >> i think dr. carson is honest but he just doesn't know what he's talking about. >> now that's scary. robert costa, find a republican here or find somebody with a different point of view who maybe done like to a point of frightening and detrimental. >> has about has he ef made

sense on. ? if what's hard to figure with dr. carson is whether he's in the dovish kind of in between both side. >> that just -- what was thatans? that was not a no or a yes and i'm not sure why he's being handled with kid gloves. >> i don't think he's being handled with kid gloves when he gives an answer about china's influence in syria, he's clear le concernedrussian aggression but ho doesn't have an articulate, sharp point of view from -- >> he description of the region -- i think you're right about the hawkish/dovish thing,

but himself skr. >> this is a grass root she doesn't have fmt was immediately shot down. the government said, no, we wouldn't there f electability and ready-to-be presidents as they are and carson and trump and rubio are going to have to.

>> none of that has caught up to them. >> because you're already starting to see it in talking to voters that electability and ready to be president anz commander in chief are coming more taub to i'm mind. i'm not einging that very -- ult will would you be happy or sad to see rubio versus nt but it temperature either seize would be very -- federal budget it if

is who's reasonable doubty to not on teak the meddle of the night call but who is beast it immigration. you'd have to know me he fiving we're in a boss it are the are. >> still to come, carly fiorina fires back a after a former employees makes a comment at a political rally. >> and a suspect dies in custody. but first, here's bill karins with a look at what may be a severe day of weather ahead. bill? >> today we're dealing with a really nasty wend storms in the great lakes. yesterday had blizzard

conditions to a tornado. you can see a will the of those ba bang. >> we two. >> in areas of southern wyoming, the colorados and wrn nebraska. yesterday, tn tornadoes i believe you, just rein moving into n right now 50-minute delays for inbound flights. that's o'hare airport. and now problems, i think worry going nocht thankfully calmer

days ahead across the country. no other beg storms heading our way. more when we come back money -- back. (vo) what does the world run on? it runs on optimism. it's what sparks ideas. moves the world forward. invest with those who see the world as unstoppable. who have the curiosity to look beyond the expected and the conviction to be in it for the long term.

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we got laid off. she's told us it was for cost

cutting. months after she we got laid off, she brought two commercial jets to fly around executives. and she says she's a great ceo. every time i see her on tv, i want to reach out and strangle he her. i know that doesn't sound very nice. >> i wouldn't mess with you. >> i can understand. i think he has his facts wrong about the two corporate jets. i understand why he might be frustrated by that. we had to make some tough calls to save 0,000 job. i don't tack umbrage with him, i don't take umbrage with mrs. clinton. if this had happened with a conservative media, the liberal media would be all over him to correct hem and apologize and all the rest of it. >> talk about what she said and what is the status of your

reporting of carly fiorina's debate? >> i think she's exactly right regarding the media double standard at that point. i give her points also for not plaming secretary clinton because i think her view is what the guy said is just kind of metaphorical and not a problem. the time of momentum and debate performance mattering as we go into the winter is past. you have to succeed by metrics. she need to raise more money, her polls need to go upnd she's going to have to start brofing she can compete in state lechterily. that has not been reflected in the polls. she tacked about a few issues in the debate with some specificity. about what are her signature issues? >> it a fair point. it's a question we had about hillary clinton, that's finning

to folks on thos may be look at a as a vice president? >> it stip bethis whatnot -- it just may be a bigger target than mitt romney was in terms of job and job creation. >> coming up, leave. died. but first for offer 7 years, our clients have relied on us to

bring our test thing this evening call a t had row price have with confidence. >> all right. now you can get 15 gigs for the price of ten. >> so far more testimony and may i? >> yup. >> 50% more data for the same price. >> i like this metaphor. zit even better with funnel cakes. >> but very sticky. dp

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. >> two nephews of venezuela's powerful first lady are expected to report to court in new york today, reportedly bringing in cocaine into the u.s. and he met with a inform yapt and later showed some to the informant. michelle caruso cabrera joins

us. talk about the implications. >> why is a business news reporter covering a drug bust is the question, right? >> a couple of reasons. venezuela a big row dueser of oi -- producer in oil. they need oil much higher to keep the country stable. additionally, a lot of hedge funds and a lot of venezuelan debt because it yields a lot. you can get 15 trs, 30%, whereas in the zero interest rate world it isn't very much. and there have been all these leaks in the oncht ajt, how high does it go it it is when discovery starts to happen, you stant to get facts and dat gentleman that a lot of people didn't think would ever become public. >> in this part of the world,

vepz la is the disaster, right? >> the economy is it will i mean, most of the people that i know that were in this market were wondering if they were going to dough fault. do you see that as strategic and continuing? >> in other words, can they just keep going -- >> how long will the chinese support them? good question. the chinese are opaque to me in terms of how long they're willing to get. thief supported cuba for a long time but we've also got yb reports that they're from all theed with the ineffectiveness of the cube and economy when they try to drill for stuff. you're right, if not for china it's going go pend wore even.

>> michelle, this is or is this maybe the indicator of a pattern in vpz allah? >> ethou a huge pang on the wall street journal where they said want to play here? $150 million just to start for kickbacks. those are allegations. nothing's been filed at this point. but i think a pattern. >> when you look at his approval raittings, this guy was no chavezhe was 80%. he's down to i think 20%, 25%. the sufficienting has cops sgs.

snchl but are the elections going to be clean? are they going to be honest? i have my doubts. so it hard to know if it which is incredible to think. in the concern michelle, thank you very much. i and if i am by an msnbc investigation. what should have been a trip to the hospital, many in mrs. custody temperature a. now, for our investigation i

went down to southern virginia to report on how that ride to the hospital turned deadly. as a warning, i want to note some of these images are disturbing. >> police say lindbergh was acting paranoid and hag utility in what we're doing is we're going to take you to the emergency room -- >> once at the hospital, lambert is soon kicking out the police car window and running toward the e. rchlkt f. >>. legs and arms cuffed, he's seen slumping in the back seat and looks like he was tased given.

>> the squad. he's then taken by ambulance back to the same encht r. where he's pronounced dead on f. >> i got up and i wept to the grave site and i talked to my blower and i said i'm sorry. i'm so sorry for what they did to you because i didn't know. >> the police deny the family's allegations and say the tasings what but federal guidelines say. and forces are only alout on combative suspects. >> there's no jus if kay to a.

many the autopsy notes tasing wound but lists the f but she hopes this story will spur justice. >> you said you want justice. what would justice look like here? >> jail time. jail. >> now this afternoon there will be a hearing in the civil case against the police. i also spoke this week to the prosecutor, who is reviewing this incident. she tells me two for as long as it takes to determine what happened that night, mika? >> he's in the back motor vehicles q so he could not do anything at this point. will the me confirm, that are

still it. . when drop properly, it. >> what was the splaegs for this? what were they concerned -- what is the explanation for this? >> the police say he was posing a danger throughout the entire interaction. >> yes, but he's in bat you have to chasify each o fo. then given and often if. if and who had testimonier that resfrfbl even not something potential will as graphic as

this, tho wrls sea t doing neg above 15 seconds of tasing does risk sear i don't see injury or death. we counted over 80 seconds of taser des charge just in that half an hour period. you see right before he ultimately died. given, want to mention the coroner saying acute cocaine intoxication was the official cause of death but they didn't have all of the evidence that we have today. >> thank you very, very much. still ahead, new talks about putting boots on the ground in syria. . join us next time on "morning joe."

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now try new boost® compact and 100 calories. my message to veterans all across this country is i am still not satisfied and bob mcdonald is not satisfied and we are going to keep investing in the facilities and the physicians and the staff to make sure our veterans get the care that you need when you need it. that is our obligation and we are not going to let up. >> that was president barack obama during yesterday's veteran ceremonies. joining us ceo of veterans of america, paul rykoff and veteran daniel rodriguez who received a purple heart and bronze star for his courageous fighting. he will be recognized later tonight with the 2015 veteran

leadership honor at the 9th annual veterans of iraq honors. you've done a really smart thing. you have willie geist as the emcee, right? >> we do. you've all been great supporters. this has been part of an epic veterans day event for us. yesterday we had almost 900 veterans marching in the parade. tonight we get to honor a really inspiring guy -- >> is that the guy sitting next to you? >> it is. >> tell us why. >> he represents what it's about, leaders, patriots, and coming home and doing amazing thing. it's about celebrating the 3 million men who served in iraq and afghanistan. that's what it's all about.

>> it's about celebrating all the veterans but, danny, your story is exceptional. you left the army, go to community college, you get a walk-on scholarship to clemson for football and then you get signed by an nfl team and a best selling "new york times" book along the way, your autobiography. what compelled you to go and fulfill your dream of college and professional football? >> for me when i came home, it wasn't the easiest road. you suffered a lot of ptsd and issues i had. i hit a point where i realized if i settled for mediocrity in my life, what do d that mean for the friend that died for our country? i just kind of looked myself in the mirror and said it starts today, i need to do something positive for my life and it started snowballing.

and i said why stop there? i pursued with the nfl and signed with st. louis and i goes like paul make it easy for me to continuing and be supported by other veterans who want to do what i want to do. >> questions? >> what's happening at the department of veterans affairs is a conversation that's happening among the candidates on both sides of the aisle. i'm just wondering if either of you think that the way the conversation is going if any of the candidates actually get it, get what needs to be done to help veterans once they come home from overseas and, two, to fix the department of veteran affairs? >> they're starting to get it, jonathan. it's because veterans across the country have raised their voices. we said you must step up and have specifics. if you don't stand with veterans, you're going to get run over by them. that's what we saw with mayor de

blasio in new york city. a few rolled out policy position papers this week but we want them all to have them. i'm glad the president is not satisfied with the transformation. we aren't either. this is going to divide the candidates on certain issues sh like privatization, how they deal with the integration of dod and v.a. you can check out all the positions on the candidates. >> we'll cover it tomorrow morning as well as on "morning joe." we'll see willie and you doing another man pose. that was so powerful, paul. for more information on iraq and afghanistan veterans of america, as well as tonight's heros gala, visit iava.org. paul and daniel, thank you so much. >> thank you. >>

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joining us is darcy olson, she is part of the right to try

movement, out with a new book "the right to try," how the federal government is out to stop people from getting the right to die medications they need. >> a million americans are going to hear from their doctors this year that they have no other options left, they need to get their affairs in order. in the government-approved treatment, there are no options left. but the truth is there are final cures awaiting the fda's green light. a lot of them are already available in europe. 24 states have adopted it in the last 18 months, if you are terminally ill, you should have access to those treatments, even if the government hasn't given the green light? >> can't the government separate

itself by putting in some legal paperwork? >> absolutely. it's just like clinical trials that people are able to get into? it's at same as people who get into those trials, you sign a clinical consent and say i'm willing to die and i want to try this. >> you said these medicines are in accessible in europe. what is it that european understand that our country doesn't and what's the role of the pharmaceutical companies in this process >> about 30% of the cutting edge medicines will come out in this country first. i've called for reciprocity in this book. if it is available if europe, for heaven sakes, it should be available here. companies come in all stripes, just like people. some say we don't want to do anything until we tested this for 25 years.

you're going to see a huge variety in terms of responses. >> jonathan capehart. >> when you were answering the initial question, we showed a story from the los angeles times featuring governor jerry brown of california and the interesting thing here is he just vetoed right to try legislation, but on the other hand he approved right to die legislation. and had we think of california, we think of california as that one state where, you know, if there's something experimental either legislatively or otherwise, they're going to try it. were you surprised that california, governor brown, rejected right to try legislation? >> so this has passed across the country on a 9-1 yes margin. governor brown as veto shocked everyone. it had passed unanimously in the california assembly. i think what really frustrates patients is they say you've signed legislation saying it's

okay for me to take a drug to hasten my death but if i want to fight to live for my children, my spouse, myself, that's okay? we think they'll take it back to brown for another answer. >> these people are suffering and then they have to deal with this red tape. and then i would like to know the other side of this. i mean, maybe why, you know, in some cases there's some puckback. >> so you're talking about people -- patients with lou gehrigs disease where there basically are no treatments left for these folks the puckback is limited. it basically comes from people who want to make sure that people are safe. one of my friends we call haas russ.

he's -- he said let me sell you something about safety. if i don't get these medicines, lou gehrig's is 100% fatal. let's put the life boat in the water. maybe it's not approved by the fda but if it's all there is, i think i'm going to jump in. >> i look at steve jobs' case. there's treatment that you know, we have a system today where if you are wealthy enough and have the resources, sometimes you can avail yourself of these things. 99% of americans don't have those resources and of course, frankly, if you're terminally ill, you can have all the resources in the world and you still want to be treated near your home and with your family.

that's what compassion daughter think olson, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. that does it for us. msnbc live picks up after a quick break. have a great day. take the zantac it challenge! pill works fast? zantac works in as little as 30 minutes. nexium can take 24 hours. when heartburn strikes, take zantac for faster relief than nexium or your money back. take the zantac it challenge.

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nations, result in multiple arrests. claudio is live for us in rome where he has been following this for us. what's the very latest? >> well, jose, the italian police today issued arrest warrants for 17 of them across europe. 16 have been arrested and another is being arrested in serb henri they are accused of being part of a terrorist network that was led bmula. he was the leader of an insurgent group that was dismantled and resolved