it is approaching noon on the east coast in new york and almost 6:00 p.m. in paris. and that is a look at those that have gathered around memorials in paris. a number of them have sprung up. and also there's a memorial service beginning at the notre dame cathedral right in the heart of paris that will be beginning momentarily. it's nearly 48 hours since terrorists struck as france mourns. the manhunt is still on for those connected to the attacks. i'm alex witt in new york. richard lui is in paris for us. richard, we're going to go to you in just a moment. here are the up-to-the-minute headlines. ap is now reporting seven people have been detained in belgium in connection with the attacks. belgian officials say a joint franco-belgian investigative

team has been created. a manhunt is under way right now for an eighth suspect in this attack. french officials had earlier said all the attackers were dead. nbc news has not independently confirmed this report. as for congressman adam schiff, he left little doubt as to who he believes was to blame for the attacks. >> this was an isis attack likely directed and equipped out of syria. we have seen, george, that france, for a number of reasons, has been the primary focus of external plotting for isis for the past year. there have been multiple plots. they've wanted to attack in public places like we saw so tragically this week. and i think the reality is even the best intelligence will not stop a determined enemy that adapts to our defenses, and isis has adapted. >> you're looking at paris where a special mass will be held at the notre dame cathedral scheduled to start any moment now. people started lining up very

early this morning, all of whom want to pay tribute to the victims of friday's attacks. richard, as we learn some new details about the investigation, is there a sense from parisians, those you've spoken with, that the government is doing enough to keep them safe? >> you know, alex, what we're seeing are three different reactions, i think. this and as you were just mentioning day two, 48 hours since that attack. several attacks at six different sites. when we look at place de la republique, we have three different activities happening. right behind me at the monument it's dead silent and it's now ten people deep around this entire monument. people just remembering, giving respects to those who lost their lives. in another space on the plaza, people debating about this very issue, what should we do next as

president hollande is working. you have the third group in terms of the response of what should happen next. they're rallying. you can probably hear them. they've been singing for the last four or five hours here. they're trying to gather the energy. they're saying we are resilient. we will move forward. they've been singing many beatles songs look "hey jude" and "imagine" and all these inspirational tunes and some french songs as well. that's what's happening here at place de la republique. let's go to richard engel who has the latest in the investigation. richard? >> the investigation right now seems to be focused on three different things. a rented car, or two rented cars, at least one, a severed finger and abandoned passports. these seem to be the clues that

are leading investigators right now to a variety of different countries. belgium a main focus. a pretzsch prosecutor said that a getaway car that was discovered in paris with ak-47s in it was rented in belgium. another car that is suspected to have been used in the attack also apparently rented in belgium. that severed finger apparently from one of the suicide bombers by the stadium has been identified as belonging to a french -- believed to have been a french national. so there are different clues coming in right now, and also the passports, maybe they were fake. certainly they were stolen, according to a french minister. one of those passports was issued and was stamped as having gone through greece and later going through serbia. all of this adds up. it is still -- french officials

are still in the collection process. what they say so far is it adds up to an international plot. a plot that involved the migrant route with people smuggling themselves into that migrant group, passing through greece, passing through serbia. it involves some connections to extremists in belgium, and it is not just a french investigation under way now. there's an investigation across europe. >> all right, richard engel in paris. it's alex here. i'm curious with regard to the investigations there, where is the greatest focus right now? what are you finding as you follow this story? >> well, as i was just saying, there's a lot of fragmentary evidence. the french justice minister, i'm in front of the ministry of justice right now, told me earlier the french officials believe to have identified most of the seven bodies.

now they are looking for connections. they are trying to figure out how they got here. were they connected among themselves? there were reports three of the attackers may have been brothers. there was this consistent link we're hearing back to belgium. a link that goes to the rented cars. one of those cars having weapons inside it. and then these documents. we don't know if they were planted at the scene. the french officials say they were stolen documents. we don't know why the attackers may have been carrying documents in the first place but those documents link the attackers back to the migrant trail. maybe they bought it or planted it there. it's a chilling link because there are so many people, tens of thousand, using that migrant trail to escape war zones in the middle east and come to europe. obviously the overwhelming majority of them are asylum seekers trying to escape the war zone. butu sis is suspected to have used that migrant trail to slip

in some of its assassins. >> i want to ask you specifically about the car that had the kalashnikov rifles in it. what's the working theory, if you've become privy to that, as to how that car appeared. is that really the reason they are looking for an eighth terrorism suspect, someone who is directly involved? because the other seven died. where was that car found? was it close to any of the places where the bodies of the attackers were found? >> there were two cars found. a volkswagen polo and a black seat. the black seat was parked on the edges of paris. it had the ak-47s in it. that's been described as a getaway car. the polo was found parked not far from the theater where the massacre took place. in regards to the eighth suspect, there's a lot of confusion about that. the justice minister told me earlier she did not believe

there were any more active shooters. that there was no one in paris or elsewhere believed to be armed and dangerous looking for new targets. but isis talked about eight shooters. they found a getaway car. frankly, they are not just looking for the eight h person. they are looking for a ninth, a tenth, perhaps a much larger number than that as this investigation spreads to belgium. there have been people detained in germany. there are questions being raised about the -- why that passport was on the scene that had passed through serbia and passed through greece. so, yes, they are looking for an eighth. they want to know more about this vehicle that had weapons in it, but they are looking for more than an eighth person certainly. >> okay. understandably so. richard engel, thank you for that. let's bring in terrorism analyst evan coleman. so you're listening to that report. i'm watching you nod your head. i'm curious.

would isis be sophisticated enough to put out there were eight attackers here knowing full well there may have only been seven. this is merely speculative. would they do that knowing that there would be a terror? >> no. >> no? that's not the way they operate. >> this is one of the questions that come up. we're talking 48 hours after the event took place. isis issued a claim of responsibility. no doubt it's from isis. but the details provided in there, there's no objective details that allow us to authenticate whether isis knew about these guys in advance. and there's this number discrepancy where they say there were eight people they sent out and we only apparently have seven bodies. so where is the eighth guy? it's to be said there have been no competing claims from al qaeda or aqap. no one else is claiming responsibility for this. if you look at the backgrounds of some of those suspected to have participated it sure looks isir

isis, not to mention the fact that when they went into the bataclan theater, they shouted out this is for syria. is sounds like isis. but there is discrepancy in that number and it's difficult to reconcile that. it's one of the very few details they offer and doesn't seem to match up. >> isis is going to take responsibility or claim for this, whether it's isis inspired or isis directed hands-on. is it at all possible -- i'm trying to figure ot where the miscommunication is coming. would it be possible that isis was privy to all the news reports that there were eight attackers and then they put out that message because they didn't do it right away. >> bingo. if you look at the claim of responsibility from isis there's no single detail there that you wouldn't have been able to ascertain from reading western media. the details correspondent exactly to what was being reported. so we don't know. maybe isis was in fact,

responsible. these are legitimate questions that need to be answered. isis also claimed credit for the russian airline crash and there's been no evidence whatsoever definitively that proves isis was actually involved, even that it was an act of terrorism. we don't know that for sure yet. there's been no physical evidence to show that. we have to be very careful. it's certainly true the most plausible culprit is isis. the amount of sophistication and planning. it suggests a terrorist organization. but you always have to remember the caveat of the boston bombings. two knuckleheads managed to kill and wound a bunch of people and they had no support from other terrorist groups other than reading bomb-making instructions on the internet. >> what's the difference between what this attack has put forth and that which you reference there in boston, the marathon bombing. how do you say that isis was responsible for this one and yet the two -- the tsarnaev brothers, they did it on their own? what's the difference?

>> what's we're looking at here, we see a claim of responsibility. no group ever claimed credit for what the tsarnaev brothers did. al qaeda in the arabian peninsula said we love what they did. you have the fact some of these attackers appear to have come from syria, appear to have trained in syria and have expressly said this is on behalf of jasyria leading one to suspe there's an isis connection. there's nothing definitive. it's still possible this is a sophisticated group of guys who received training somewhere, maybe in a conflict zone, maybe in syria who took it upon themselves to do this. if so it's a sophisticated operation for a lone wolf and much more sophisticated than the isis cases we've seen here in the u.s., but it's still possible. >> those passports found. one is a syrian passport and it's not for certain it's a legitimate passport. what would be the point of planting that, if it wasn't legitimate? >> we can only look to isis

propaganda. recently isis put out this thing in one of their magazines telling syrians they should not leave the country to become refugees. they should stay and they were traitors for going abroad and leaving syria. they even mocked the picture of the dead infant lying on the beach. they made light of this. i think as perverse as this sounds, they want to, number one, prevent refugees from being able to come to europe. that's what they'd like. they'd like to make this crisis even worse for the european countries that are dealing with it. they want to create a political crisis in france and crisis in germany. i would not putt past them to have deliberately gotten these passports and brought them with them in order to try to spike these questions and spur on the growth of right wing parties in places like france and germany because that's to their benefit. it alienates local muslim populations and ethnic

minorities, creates tension in society and leads to isis recruitment. i'd not put it past them to have thought about that and deliberately done that. that's certainly possible. >> evan coleman, thank you. a member of the french media joins me next with what news she's learned about others connected to the paris attack. president obama huddles with vladimir putin. we now know what they talked about. at planters we know how to throw a remarkable holiday party. just serve classy snacks and be a gracious host, no matter who shows up. [cricket sound] richard. didn't think you were going to make it. hey sorry about last weekend, i don't know what got into me. well forgive and forget... kind of. i don't think so! do you like nuts? put under a microscope, we can see all the bacteria that still exists. polident's unique micro clean formula works in just 3 minutes, killing 99.99% of odor causing bacteria.

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17 past. here are the up-to-the-minute headlines. "the new york times" and associated press report that a manhunt is under way for a possible eighth suspect in friday's terror attacks. french officials had earlier said that all the attackers were dead. the investigation is also spreading across europe. belgian officials say a joint

franco-belgian investigative team has been created. seven people have been detained in belgium in connection with this attack. paris' iconic eiffel tower remains closed today. thousands of troops are patrolling the streets and many of the city's museums and theaters remain closed. i'd like to bring in the white house correspondent for a french channel. laura, you've been bringing us fresh information throughout this investigation. what have you since learned since yesterday? >> it's interesting because i think as richard engel pointed out, you have, in fact, two type of investigations going on at this moment. you have, according to some people i spoke with in paris, according to reliable sources, a team which is in place to determine why do that on november 13, which was november

13 on friday. and it's really interesting to listen and to speak to those people who are really trying to understand why those people did that and what were the symbols. so i'm going to give you what i learned, which is really interesting. why the stadium of france? the stadium of france because according to investigators in charge of that, they believe the people who attacked the stadium of france, exploded themselves near the stadium of france wanted to strike the commander in chief, francois hollande as the president of france and also two countries, france and germany. and also, according to the people i spoke, they are absolutely convinced the french president was not precisely targeted but was the symbol of what he's doing in the past six month months against isis, and there

was a strike done by the french in october where a french charity was targeted and killed and they're absolutely convinced when the strike happened in the beginning of october 2015 and when this french citizen, an isis member was killed, it was maybe the beginning of a signal to attack the commander in chief. it means francois hollande. the second element is why -- and for the investigations that's also quite interesting. while looking yesterday, what is the honor of the bataclan. each place has been chosen carefully to represent a symbol. we've all said at the bataclan there were a lot of young people and an american band. it's also owned by french-jewish

person and the bataclan did recently in the past month a lot of concerts in support of israel. so the investigation team thinks that it might be also a very important symbol for isis. then you have the shootout in the restaurant that trying to understand why the specific restaurants were targeted. it's probably because the restaurant, according to the people again i spoke with in charge of the investigation, they were targeted because they are places where young people and mixed communities are going, and it's full like new york of people on friday night in the upper west side mixing together, and they really wanted to strike in a heavy way civilian, mixed communities, french, muslim, jews, no matter what but the restaurants were also an important part according to investigators of what happened. and one of the restaurants was

located 300 meters away from where the prime minister, the french prime minister is living. so the investigators think it was also quite an important symbol. and the last thing i want to tell you is why friday november 13? and the investigators are absolutely convinced that it was because it was just the day before the g-20. and it was for the terrorists a way to say, the world is meeting at the g-20 in turkey but we're going to strike a country which is part of the g-20 just the day before. >> as i introduced you, laura haim, saying you always bring us fresh information, that is that. from this information i'm going to continue the conversation with sean henry, former assistant secretary and current president of crowd strike services. if all this is accurate, some could say it's a stadium, a

theater, a restaurant. random nature to it. listening to laura and her sources, it is absolutely not random at all. so if it's not random, how do you protect against places like this. this is a theater, the bataclan concert hall. pro-israel events. how do you begin to protect yourself? >> i certainly don't think this is random at all. these are iconic locations and areas you have a large number of innocent civilians enjoying themselves, going by their daily life and there's little to no security there. those are clear targets. what do we do? it all comes down to intelligence. this is the keyword here. it's not going to be able to prevent and protect against every single attack. it's about identifying in advance what's going to happen and trying to disrupt these types of activities. that is very, very challenging right now. there are a lot of concerns with the way governments are monitoring communications,

particularly on the heels of snowden and revelations there. european countries are having concerns about how the government is intercepting communications. those are key tools in the arsenal of law enforcement, the intelligence community and governments to protect their citizens. and those capabilities are being challenged. also adversaries are looking to hide their communications with encrypted techniques. this is very, very difficult. trying to intercept and understand the totality of these types of schemes in advance to disrupt them are going to be an increasing challenge for our governments going forward, alex. >> shawn, there have been some on the broadcast the last couple of days with me who suggested there needs to be better communication, better intelligence sharing between our country and others. one would presume in the wake of 9/11 and all the developments there the fact we here in the states share federal, state and local municipalities with the intelligence now. we've done such a good job of doing that. are we still on an upward learning curve with regard to

sharing internationally? >> my experience with the intelligence community globally has been positive and there's certainly a great deal of sharing internationally. not just with the fbi but also other agencies like cia and nsa with foreign counterparts. in many cases they are integrated. these intelligence agencies are working together in physical space in a very collaborative way. that being said, this threat is substantial. it's widespread and it's so difficult to identify some of these even very, very small pockets of people who might be getting radicalized online. those who are being told to fight in place as isis has been telling their believers and followers. don't necessarily come to syria. fight in place. very difficult to identify and intervene in those areas. while there's been great collaboration and coordination globally, there's always room for improvement. always greater opportunities that need to be explored. this is a long-term fight. it has global implications.

those agencies have to come together, alex, in order to be successful against our adversaries. >> sean hennry, thank you. president obama is meet with world leaders. what is he saying in response to the paris attacks. how you doing? hey! how are you? where are we watching the game? you'll see. i think my boys have a shot this year. yeah, especially with this new offense we're running... i mean, our running back is a beast. once he hits the hole and breaks through the secondary, oh he's gone. and our linebackers and dbs dish out punishment, and never quit.

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ideology is an attack not just on france, not just on turkey, but it's an attack on the civilized world. >> nbc's ron allen is joining me from turkey. good evening, your time. paris is the focus of the conversation today at the summit, yeah? >> yes, undoubtedly, alex, and what to do about isis and what the united states and its allies should do going forward. and how aggressive they should be. basically the united states position is that they are not going to change the strategy. the basic strategy is to attack isis from the air and not put too many u.s. troops on the ground. but the president and his advisers saying they're going to ump the intensity of what the united states has been doing and they expect their allies to join in in a more aggressive way and follow the lead of the french because, of course, the french, the most aggrieved party. the french have carried out the second most number of air

strikes to the united states, although it's a distant second. there's every expectation the french will have a very robust response to what's happened in paris. so the strategy calls for more air strikes and also targeting the isis leadership in iraq and syria. it also calls for arming and supporting local troops, iraqi and syrian troops on the ground who showed the ability to fight and take on isis on the ground. what the u.s. is still insisting is they do not see a military solution to this confluctuaict involves significant numbers of u.s. troops. also there's going to be a strong diplomatic push. over the last couple of days an announcement from the talks in vienna of some progress for the first time. progress that could lead to negotiations between the government of bashar al assad and the opposition groups. talks that could lead to elections. but this is all very, very as far down the road. for the first time in a long

time the 19 parties to those talks, including secretary of state john kerry say they made some progress. while the united states pursues its military objectives, it's making a strong diplomatic push as well. >> i'm going to ask my director to put up that video again where we have obama and putin crouching together talking. do we know was that relative to the talks that have been ongoing in vienna? is this to the iranian nuclear talks, to isis. do we know what this talk was about between these two leaders? >> it was mostly about the syria conflu confluct. they were huddled in a corner in a meeting room. there were numerous other world leaders and dignitaries mulling around and discussing these things while you had in the corner two of the most powerful men in the world having what looked like a casual conversation. it was mostly about the talks

about syria. the two men saying they support that process. however, the big disagreement still going forward is what will the syrian president, what role he'll play going forward. the russians are supporting him. the u.s. says he should go and that big issue has not been resolved. >> i love the fact we have this video. it's pretty cool. thank you, ron allen, from turkey. a memorial begins in just a few minutes. coming up, we'll bring you a live report. the orders were rushing in. i could feel our deadlines racing towards us. we didn't need a loan. we needed short-term funding fast. building 18 homes in 4 ½ months? that was a leap. but i knew i could rely on american express to help me buy those building materials. amex helped me buy the inventory i needed. our amex helped us fill the orders. just like that. another step on the journey. will you be ready when growth presents itself? realize your buying power at open.com ok, wehere's dad. mom. the twins.

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that. there is new video that appears to be at the time the gunfire erupted at the bataclan theater. here it is. [ gunfire ] that is horrifying. it almost seems many of those gunshots are in sync with the pounding of the drums. that band is still playing on and just now that's when they are realizing something is desperately wrong. you saw one of the performers there, one of the band members running off the stage. any moment now in paris there's a special mass at the notre dame cathedral. people started lining up very early to pay tribute to the victims of friday's attack. let's go to kelly cobiella in paris for us following this story. it's a beautiful vista we see you in. but inside of the notre dame behind you, people with absolutely broken hearts.

>> that's so true, alex. they were lining up and waiting in that square in front of notre dame for a good long time. just before the service the square so packed you couldn't see hardly a thing. it was really jammed in with people waiting to get into notre dame cathedral. promptly at 6:15 local time, about 20 minutes ago now, the bells of notre dame started to ring out. lasted about 15 minutes as people went in to pay tribute to the families, the victims and the survivors in this attack. this service is headed by cardinal vingt-trois, the cardinal here in paris. he said before hand our country knows the pain of mourning and must face the barbarity propagated by fanatical groups. tonight really was to pay tribute to the victims and remember them and pray for the families. he said we pray for hope, not hate.

this service is already ongoing, alex. inside you can see a packed cathedral, dimmed lighting and the lights, the colors of the french flag moving up the columns in that amazing space inside. a very touching service to be sure over the next hour or so. and we will keep an eye on it, alex. >> it's an absolutely beautiful setting for such a difficult time. that beautiful rose window at the back of the cathedral well. now that it's dark you won't see the light streaming through but hopefully in the morning that will bring comfort to people as they seek some solace there. during last night's debate in iowa, presidential candidates were asked how they'd deal with isis. how they responded, next.

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paris attacks took center stage. kristen welker is in ames today for us. good day to you. how are the candidates reacting to this terrible news? >> alex, look, all of the candidates woke up to a new reality today. the fact that the fight against isis is now the defining foreign policy issue of the 2016 race. that was on display in iowa last night. when the debate started with a robust discussion about combating terrorism. despite the somber backdrop of the attacks on paris -- >> we ask you to join us in observing a moment of silence. >> reporter: front-runner hillary clinton was on defense from the start about whether she and president obama, her former boss, underestimated isis. >> but this cannot be an american fight, although american leadership is essential. >> reporter: her rivals wasted no time pouncing. >> this actually is america's fight. >> reporter: and vermont senator bernie sanders slammed her for voting for the iraq war in 2002. >> i don't think any sensible

person would disagree that the invasion of iraq led to the massive level of instability we are seeing right now. >> reporter: clinton's opponents taking every chance to pile on. >> i have never heard a candidate, never, who has received huge amounts of money from oil, from coal, from wall street, all these campaign contributions will not influence me. >> he has basically used his answer to impugn my integrity. >> reporter: clinton raised eyebrows arguing her ties to wall street stem from representing that area as a senator during 9/11. >> we were attacked in downtown manhattan where wall street is. i did spend a whole lot of time and effort helping them rebuild. >> reporter: but it is paris that's changing the conversation on the campaign trail, including for republicans. >> our prayers go to the people of france, but that's not enough. action is required. >> reporter: many of them again

accusing the president of being weak on isis. >> barack obama does not wish to defend this country. he may have been tired of war but our enemies are not tired of killing us, and they are getting stronger. >> reporter: and it's interesting. a lot of people thought last night's debate would be more muted and toned coming in the wake of the paris attacks. the opposite was true. it got quite heated at times. today secretary clinton's rivals, both democrats and republicans, continuing to criticize her for those comments she made linking her ties to wall street to 9/11. they say she's trying to politicize the issue. her campaign pushing back against that today saying the secretary was merely xregs her pride in having represented new york as a u.s. senator. >> kristen welker from ames. let's bring in former vermont governor howard dean and robert. both are msnbc contributors.

governor, i'm going to begin with you, sir. do you think the fact the debate topic changed from mostly economy to an isis component. did that hurt or help hillary clinton? >> hillary looked pretty good last night. i saw the whole debate. i thought she was in command for the entire course of the debate, although i think the debate looks so much better on our side than it does on the republican's where they say anything that comes in their head. with the exception of lindsay graham none of them know anything about foreign policy as far as i can tell. i think it helps hillary. she's got more experience than anybody else on either side of the aisle. the more security conscious americans are, the more likely they are to vote for somebody they know well and they understand knows the job well. and that's hillary clinton. >> i want to play a little bit of one of her answers. here's that, everyone. >> won't the legacy of this administration, which is -- which you were a part of, won't that legacy be that it

underestimated the threat from isis? >> what the president has consistently said, which i agree with, is that we will support those who take the fight to isis. that is why we have troops in iraq that are helping to train and build back up the iraqi military, why we have special operators in syria working with the kurds and arabs so we can be supportive. >> where does this stand in terms of obama policy, and how much will she be affected by what's going on because of her tenure as secretary of state? governor dean? >> i think she's affected positively. look. the american people do not want to send massive numbers of american troops to the middle east. that could change if we are attacked ourselves. you'd find out most people do not want to go back to iraq or afghanistan. so the question is, what can we do? the president -- i mean hillary -- not so fast -- hillary is exactly right.

hillary has said that we need to support those willing to fight for themselves, which is a position that most other candidates have taken. >> governor, i'm going to have to have you hold the conversation. my executive producer told me we have some breaking news from paris. you guys have seen we've had richard lui with me broadcasting from paris. there was some confusion at his location. nbc's lester holt is also at that location and he joins me on the phone. what's going on there? >> we were finishing up an interview not far from notre dame with a survivor from the attacks the other night when suddenly police came out of nowhere. we heard there was something going on about two blocks away. they came out with guns and began screaming in france. i said english, english. he said there's a man with a gun and asked us to take cover. there's been police cars the last 10, 15 minutes criss-crossing the area, sirens blasting. we heard from our crew members at a hotel that we were staying

at. they believe they heard shots somewhere outside the hotel. where i'm standing right now is in front of a campaign with chairs strewn everywhere, glass everywhere, people panicked at the activity here. some people ran in the basement, but the sidewalk littered with glass as people were out enjoying an evening dining simply flee -- left their tables and glasses went flying everywhere. we don't know exactly what's happened if this is another one of the scares in a rattled city or what. but again, our crew members at the hotel in the les halles area believe they've heard shots. we'll try to get a handle on it. we were trying to chase some of the police vehicles but they're going in all different directions. people are wondering what's going on. the jitters here are real, and they are toxic. >> for obviously good reason. lester, we're showing a picture of an empty place de la

republique, a place people have gathered. that was the place where literally nearly a million people gathered in the wake of the charlie hebdo massacre back in january. so when you had someone coming out in the crowd in this area, was anything audible by any reports you heard? were they shouting in french, this person with the gun? was anybody calling out in a different language? >> no, the only thing -- where we were was not a very populated area. it was around a corner. the police officer came running and screaming in french. i got him to stop and say english, english. he said a person with a gun. you have to leave. you have to get down. and they took off and raced down another street. we got the same advice from the other officer. we don't have a handle on what's going on but the anxiety is palpable here. just certainly evidence of what i'm seeing at this cafe where people just jumped up from their chairs sending glasses and food

flying everywhere. one man told me they went down into the basement. no one here really knows what's going on. and again, they are saying this is a city on edge and people are jumping at shadows, but police at least have that report of a person with a gun and our crew claims they heard what sounded like shots outside their hotel. so we're going to continue to try to work this from where we are. >> okay, lester, i actually need to stay with you if i can while we try to get up some other reports there from paris. >> sure, i understand. >> when it comes to anything you heard specifically, how far are you away from your crew? were you in the hotel at the time or out on the street? what was the distance that allowed them to hear and maybe not you? >> we've been operating about a couple mile area here. i was probably ten minutes from where that crew is. we're very close to notre dame cathedral where we were doing an interview with the survivor when all this activity began to

break. >> okay. >> which is not good because we know how many people gathered there right in front of the notre dame cathedral. everyone going in for that service which is under way to honor those that were killed. all right. so, lester, where is your crew right now? is everybody inside? >> we're spread out. several people with me right now. the folks in the hotel had called in to us and explained what they had heard and we're trying to piece this together. is this one situation or two? the sirens have stopped in the last few minutes. don't know what to make of that. we -- i've been in the place de la republique earlier, and it was jam packed with people. it's hard to believe, you're seeing people having left that area. that was the gathering spot. has been the gathering spot for people to leave their memorials and tributes. lots of families out there today.

lots of police presence as well. as you are seeing pretty much in every corner. many of the main corners in this city. so there's -- the sirens have stopped now. we're not seeing much activity here. people seem to be getting back about their business. we're still trying to get to the source of what that sound was heard by our crew. >> i can imagine. but you aren't being told by anybody, any sort of official that you must stay put? >> no. two police officers told us to get down, get out of the way. one of them said person with a gun. the initial report we had even before we saw the police, my producer got a call from another producer who said something is going on at the starbucks, and it was two blocks away. that's when we started running that direction. hearing more sirens now. we started moving in that direction. that's when the police came and then asked us to move away. >> okay. how far are you -- go ahead,

lester. >> let me stop for a second. i'm on msnbc right now. you were the one that called us and told use can you tell us what you guys saw or heard? >> walking over to starbucks and so when we got there, we noticed some commotion. people were just kind of running and talking. it felt like an uncomfortable scene. we walked to the starbucks we were going to and noticed it was locked and coffees were strewn all over the floor. people -- there was nobody in there. the workers were coming from upstairs somewhere. there were people still in there. and everyone was screaming saying get away, get away in french. so we called lester and his team and said there's something going on here. and everyone -- kind of a state of panic everywhere. i think that ultimately people heard a loud noise and started to run. i think everyone is very on edge right now and it's just kind

of -- what people are feeling here. and there could have been something that was happening. but anything out of the ordinary, people are taking a little bit differently. >> we are getting word that police have ordered the crowds at the bataclan concert center to disperse. there had been an impromptu memorial that gathered there for people. i just want to be clear. nobody has said nor implied there was any sort of gunfire or anything heard in that area. but can you give me perspective where these shots were allegedly heard, how far that is from the bataclan concert hall? >> we didn't hear the loud noise. that's what someone else said. we're probably about a ten-minute drive from that. there was a lot of police presence here, too. they were trying to disperse the crowd. they were closing off streets. people were -- i don't know if

there's s.w.a.t. team here but there were teams of police heavily armed running through. >> i want to let everybody know that we were just showing some tape and i'm going to have our director rerack that. and it looks at the moment when people -- okay, richard lui back in a second. but at the time people were told or heard something. let's rerack and hear this. this looks like the place de la republique. we see the edge of the fountain and the memorial building there. if we can play this tape again, you'll see for yourself some people who were running and clearing trying to move en masse which is very difficult. you can have other things come as a result of a large group trying to move en masse. no reports of that. so, okay, all right, guys. you're trying to file and get to the bottom of what's going on. i want to thank lester as well as his producer for this. we'll try and check in with you

again. richard lui, we just saw him in front of a camera. can you tell us what you are seeing and hearing? >> we are at here, alex, right at one end of the plaza here. place de la republique. and what happened is we were just getting ready to go live with you and then a mass of people started to run towards our side of the plaza and basically trampled through all the camera crews which were on this end of the plaza. bataclan is about a ten-minute walk away from where we were at. the amount of noise before, there was nothing to indicate either before or during that complete evacuation of the plaza. i spoke with five or six, maybe seven different individuals that were here on the plaza after they had run away from this

location. none of them were able to say why they were running. they didn't know. they just saw the person in front of them running away. and now the location that you're looking at now, it was absolutely dead quiet. as i was describing earlier in the evening, earlier in the day, you had situations around what is basically a vigil ten deep. very, very quiet as it's now starting to return to that state. but perhaps one of the sub groups that were around. sub groups rotated around this monument were groups either debating what should be done in light of the attacks on friday. you also had groups of singers, individual guitarists bringing together groups that wanted to hear the songs. so in terms of what led up to what was maybe about a minute, we didn't have anything audibly that we could hear. >> okay, richard, i want to let

you know, and nbc's lester holt as well is going to rejoin this broadcast. we're getting word that it was a false alarm at the place de la republique. police swarmed this place. they were seen checking the monument. but according to police in paris, they are saying that it translated into something of a movement of panic. and this only speaks to what you were talking about, lester. you were talking about how everybody's nerves are frayed, people are on edge. the jitters are clearly palpable in this city some 48 hours after the tragic events of friday. so your thoughts when you hear this is a false alarm. it's conceivable, yeah? lester? >> yeah, yeah, i'm saying, yeah, it's quite possible. loud noises but -- police officers shooing us away. where i'm standing is one of

several outdoor cafes where people simply panic at sounds or the report of something going on. and there is one man that appears to be badly injured in this restaurant not from anything than just being a victim of the panic as people flew from their tables and dishes and glasses witness flying and people poured into the basement. we're told this happened at other cafes here. just sheer panic. people were jumpy, on edge. every sound could be something in the minds of many. what i'm looking at here is the result of that. but the police activity seems to have quieted down. that seems to jive with what you're hearing, this might be a false alarm. i'm alex witt. nbc's lester holt, anchor of ""nbc nightly news" is joining me of his coverage of literally

breaking news. we were told some 15, 20 minutes ago there were reports of panic and people running. there have been shots fired in parts of paris, and it had yet to be confirmed. we will add lester's crew thought they heard these loud noises, either one or sequence of noises, and this is all evidence as to the fragile nature of the emotional, on edge, mental fragility right now of the folks there in paris because of what happened two days ago. so, lester, what is the police presence like there? do things seem to be getting back to normal? >> i'm still hearing some racing down the street. right now we're listening to one who is describing to our -- okay. this is a woman who is in french describing people crying, people running down the streets. she is clearly distraught.

i'm getting this as people are translating. i'm listening to this woman talking to reporters. she's saying it started as a wave through this neighborhood here of people just panicking. we're trying to get to the source of what the trigger was. >> as you listen to this woman and try to get the translation, how far away are you from the place de la republique now and is that the location from which these -- the noise which was allegedly heard? >> yeah, we're probably ten minutes from there, but whatever happened, it happened in a chain reaction. police cars still going around. we're seeing the flashing lights. it appears to be a false alarm. false to the extent there was no terror activity, even though the police officer told us there was a person with a gun. but the reaction was very real.

the perception of danger was real. you don't need to speak french to understand how distraught this woman is from what she experienced. >> you mentioned seeing at least one person there in the restaurant where you were taking cover. one person was injured just because of the panic? >> yeah, just to be clear. i was not in the restaurant. we were on the street when police told us to get down and move out of the way. there was a person with a gun. we came several blocks away into this neighborhood and saw -- at first it was hard to comprehend. a scene of chairs upside down. tables down. glass everywhere and then we understood it was just a result of a panic. people having heard there was a noi noise, a ripple effect of people running down into the basement. there was at least one person in that restaurant seriously hurt. and paramedics are attending to

that person. that is simply from the action of panic, nothing else. >> so the street where you are now, other than this woman who is very excitedly and emotionally explaining in french what happened. and as you said you see that and you can understand -- oh, i wanted even to stay on that video if we could. we saw what was happening at the place de la republique when there was sort of a mass movement away. people moving as quickly as they could. but what's it like there now as you look around. are there a lot of people mill -- >> we kind of pulled back because things started getting intense with paramedics and police. we've come another block away. people standing on corners gathering and chatting through what happened. calm seems to be prevailing now. but it's -- people are very, very much on edge as you would understand they would be.

>> absolutely. >> i was near january covering charlie hebdo attacks when we got reports of the hostage taking at the market. and i remember the city on edge then. it's a very similar feel of, when is the next shoe going to drop. will another shoe drop, and i think it's clearly what has happened here. that anxiety boiling over and something triggered it. some sound. some report, but it went like a wave of panic. >> i can imagine. it's one thing to be a resdint of paris and to have this cloud. but even for you and the other journalists there. you're there to cover the story. this becomes a story and while you weren't there friday night for the attacks, it's got to create some edge within you as well because of the sheer nature of what happened. people were dining in restaurants. they were out meeting a friend for a drink. something you might have to go

to a restaurant and get dinner at the end of a long day working. it's got to be something that's foremost in your mind as well as we are showing people -- >> terror is all about the unknown. and there's a great deal of unknown. you can probably hear one going by now. police vehicles, you know, criss-crossing the city. that in itself raises the sense of anxiety and i think, you know, it's not unreasonable to expect we'll see more of these moments here. the look on that police officer's face when he came out to us with the gun drawn and trying to explain in french and english we've got to leave, there's a person with a gun, was -- you don't take that moment, question him too far. word we're getting now, it is a false alarm but there's still a very big show of strength here. i'm watching one, two, three,

four emergency vehicles go by. we'll keep you posted if anything changes. this is an apparent false alarm. something triggering it and the subsequent panic. >> lester, we've been trying to get back with richard lui. if i can keep you for a minute more. i want to ask you how people have been reacting in general. i know what has just happened and the -- >> can you repeat that? i lost you. >> as you've talked to people today, was it more of a mournful sense you got or sense of fear? was there a palpable sense of fear as well as sadness? >> this all transpired just moments after i finished a heartwrenching interview with a man in the bataclan theater. he was in the balcony. he told me this harrowing story of a group of 50 of them decided

not to go down but to go up. they made their way, helped each other up into a hatch on the roof and crossed into another apartment building where they laid on the floor until help came. this is a man reflecting on the guilt of being a survivor. we were filled with this emotion and then almost a few seconds later, we get this word, you know, that there's a new threat some of kind and police officers with guns drawn. it certainly raises your anxiety and emotion level. >> yeah, to say the least. lester, thank you so much. we'll reach out to you again as needed. we're reconnected with msnbc's richard lui now. we were showing some video right from your camera that just moments ago people moving out of that area. what are you seeing now? richard, can you hear me? >> can you hear me? >> got you. >> what's are you seeing right

now? >> at the moment the plaza is calm but i have this video we want to show. this is exactly what happened in a matter of 30 seconds. we're plaug it straight from our camera. we were standing and they proceeded to run toward the northeast side of the plaza. this is when we were trampled by hundreds of people. you'll notice the time that goes by from beginning to end, maybe 30 seconds. and then after they left the plaza and were able to reach the streets, people began to increase speed and start running. the reason why they slow down at this moment is because people had fallen and there were cars that were impeding their ability to get out of the plaza quickly. you can see our equipment falling over in this video. and that's when the law enforcement came in and they went through a procedure where they went around the monument about a group of eight or ten of them to look at all that. you can see some of them staying

behind in this video. they went to look through all of the flowers and inspect what was there. and again, the noise that we heard prior to that, we were standing there, again, about to go on with you. there was noe evident sound. only people screaming and they bigan to run towards us. that only happened about 20 seconds and then people started to come on back. what we did hear during that time when we -- we were unable to show this video to you is we did hear some sirens and a helicopter in the distance. don't know if it was close by to the place de la republique. but it has been a place of at least three or four key emotions throughout the day. so when that did happen, it was certainly a surprise. it seemed like we were at a different point in the process. but again, if this is any u

indication. yesterday when we were at bataclan near the concert hall, there was another vigil there. there was a bag that was left there and law enforcement moved very, very quickly. all the camera crews within ten seconds were asked to move 20 feet back. and a good thing yesterday during that false alarm, like this one is, too, a young girl came back and moved her bag. that's all it was. they were ready to move quickly. it gives you a sense of what they are looking at. the different emotions in the set that we got here of people, at least at this location as well at bataclan. that's what happened in a matter of about 30 seconds in the video we're showing you. >> richard, i want to put this in perspective for people with us for the last 45 minutes or so, if not longer. for all of you, we were supposed to go to richard lui to do a live shot and my executive producer said, you can't. you have to go to kelly cobiella. she was at the notre dame

cathedral talking about the report there with those that are inside at that memorial service right now. this memorial service honoring the family of the victims and anyone else who wanted to come out for that. we immediately pivoted and were not able to go to richard. we did not know why we lost connection with him. now it's apparent. lester described one man that he came upon when he and his crew made their way a couple of blocks into the scene and found a restaurant with a lot of damage inside because of people moving very quickly and a man who had been pretty seriously injured. this is what can happen. people get trampled. you talked about your equipment getting trampled. you had to get out of the way. did you see anybody get injured? >> what had happened, i was standing on a platform that was maybe 2 by 2. was pushed over. our videographer also, people

were being pushed out of the streets here. when it cleared, there are two i can see from here subway station entrances. they started to run down and then to the other side streets getting into cars. old and young. of course, the concern was, were those who would not be able to run as fast, what were the conditions? i did see a couple of those who were older adults that were trampled and then in the process of asking individuals during that running what -- why did you run? what was the reason? what did you hear? they did not have an answer for that. they only said we ran because others were running. and so when you look at this video here that we're still streaming, you have to ask the question, when they have their guns pulled and a couple of rifle

rifles, what were they thinking and what was the initial area of concern? so it is a good thing, as you were reporting a moment ago that it was a false alarm, at least here at place de la republique. our live pictures are now calmer. we don't have the same sounds of the helicopter or sirens that were there at the time. but i'm not saying -- alex, it moved from full plaza, thousands of people, and you've been reporting on this and anchoring all day on what's been happening here. it was clear in about 20 or 30 seconds. but throughout the day, and we've seen it as we've been standing out here, alex. groups of five or six or seven law enforcement fully armed with pistols as well as rifles going about the plaza and the video shows this after they had evacuated those who were here, those law enforcement that

stayed back, were by the monuments looking to see if there was anything of concern and then were there at the end. >> richard, stand by if you will. kelly cobiella now joins me. she's right by the notre dame cathedral. the tremendous report you gave about the memorial service that's under way. but you were expecting to be interviewed by richard. his camera went down. i took it last minute to get to you because we lost contact with him. now we know why we lost contact. i understand you also there, some distance away, saw a sense of panic as well near the notre dame cathedral. >> we're about three miles away from where richard is by the notre dame cathedral. i had just finished speaking with you and we had a little

down time. i wanted to get around to the front of the cathedral to talk to some people. as i was walking there, a woman stopped me and said don't go there, don't go there, don't go that way. i said what's wrong? she said something's happened and it's gone that way. please don't go. she was almost pleading with me. i thought it was strange. i continued walking toward the cathedral. as i got closer to the bridge there was an all-out panic. people running full speed toward the land side away from the cathedral. we stopped for a moment and did a gut check to see if there was any sign of any police activity at the front of the cathedral. it was the same thing. something caused a panic in a crowd and one person starts running. they see other people run and it

sets off like a set of dominied. we got to the front of the cathedral. there are hundreds of people still in that square on the side streets. police all seemed very calm and false alarm is what we're hearing from police. >> kelly, i'm seeing a report in french that it's not confirmed by nbc news. rather, this is by a europe one reporter who said that firecrackers may have caused this chaos. you can understand how those are very sharp blast-like sounds and depending on where you are, it can be very, very loud. we've had descriptions from richard and lester hold that there was either one loud sound or more likely some crew members of nbc news heard that popping sound which, again, not confirmed by nbc news but one europe one reporter is reporting

that it was firecrackers. did you want to say something else before i go to jose? >> i was just going to add that something similar happened yesterday. i didn't witness it, but i did read about a similar situation yesterday where fire crackers were being lit at a wedding for a celebration and it caused a panic. people called police and when they arrived at the wedding they realized it was part of a celebration. it has happened once before. people are on edge. >> kelly cobiella on the ile st. louis. let's go to my colleague jose diaz. did you hear any panic? have police approached you as well? >> oh, yeah, alex, absolutely. i just finished anchoring my telemundo show right -- a few

meters from where one of the horrible massacres occurred when in a matter of seconds, police came out and spoke to the people closest. and those people immediately turned around and ran. it was in less than a second the expression on people's -- i saw people crying, others with sheer terror in their eyes as they ran. and as they ran, they -- a wave of communication that came from the people that were running was, the police is telling us there may be a gunman out and he's in this area. and a gunman is here and disperse and everybody started running. i just was wrapping up my show. i just wrapped it up. a few minutes later started a periscope trying to figure out what was going on because police were adamant we had to get out of the area. they weren't saying why. they were saying get out of the

area but then people -- kelly and lester were talking about this. it's people just at the edge of nerves. and people were running. there's a store right in the corner where we are and those steel curtains came down in a matter of seconds and the lights went off and right now i'm looking at that store and the lights are off and those steel curtains are still down. everybody is slowly returning to this makeshift memorial. there are candles and flowers and notes and prayer cards for the people that lost their lives here in this nightclub. the sheer terror that people feel and then it's like a wave of the story turns into -- police are telling you to leave immediately. there's a gunman and a gunman on the loose. it's here we have to leave and then richard mentioned the helicopter came by or what sounded like a helicopter. it is already night here.

and that only increased the tension and the fear that people were feeling. it was very real. the cameraman ran -- the live truck operators shut down and this was not a mere overreaction that quickly passed. this lasted minutes. and it just goes to show just how people are living 48 hours after this horrible terrorist attack here. people do not feel safe. i was speaking to a young french man and his girlfriend who live across from the nightclub, and she was just telling me how she can't stop thinking about the sounds of the gunshots going off. a brother and a sister, best friends. a brother and sister that had gone to see this american group. the brother survived. the sister did not. now they're all trying to deal with understanding how something like that can happen in their

neighborhood. >> okay. jose diaz-balart. you've had a difficult day having been swarmed by this particular event as soon as you were trying to wrap up a live broadcast there. jose, thank you very much for weighing in and giving us your perspective. also richard lui and lester holt. the good news at this point is that it appears it was merely firecrackers. nbc news has yet to confirm that angle of the story but we have a europe one reporter who has reported in french that it was firecrackers. and seeing as there's been nothing in the last 45 minutes and things appear to be coming back to normal, that is what we'll go with for now until we find out otherwise. though the world normal is the operative word here. that is something that it will probably be a long time coming until paris returns to that state. peopler edge. clearly, you hear something and there's a reaction, the reverberations which were throughout paris.

we saw kelly cobiella on the ile st. louis, a couple miles from our other reporters and people talking about gunshots there. so everybody is on edge in paris. we also want to let you know we'll confirm what you're reading. for the last 48 hours we've been reporting death toll at about 129. this thanks to mr. francois hollande who was the prosecutor. now it's gone up to 132. he had said that 99 were in very critical condition fighting for their lives. three people have succumbed to their injuries and have died. the official death toll 132. this picture right here is of a french national. he has been identified. this is a man who police tweeted out about an hour ago now that this photograph is of a man they are seeking as a suspect. he's been identified as a french national. he is implicated in the sattack

of november 13th. we're not being told if this is the alleged eighth attacker they are seeking but nonetheless, this man is someone that french police are looking for and the international community as well. he is a french citizen. we're going to take a very short break. stay with us. gigs for the same price? yea, allow me to demonstrate. do you like your pretzel? yea. okay, uh, may i? 50% more data for the same price. i like this metaphor. oh, it's even better with funnel cakes. but very sticky. now get 15 gigs for the price of 10.

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even fatal to infants. it's whooping cough, and people can spread it without knowing it. understand the danger your new grandchild faces. talk to your doctor or pharmacist about a whooping cough vaccination today. 27 past the hour. i'm alex witt. it's been a very busy past 45 minutes. let me get you up to speed on three important details. our ticker shows that the death toll has risen to 132 in paris. that's as a result of three people who were severely injured, three of the 99 that have been listed in critical condition as relayed to us by the prosecutor of paris. now 132 officially declared dead in paris as a result of friday a attack. secondly we're going to throw up a screen. this is a picture tweeted out by the french police of a french

national. he's been identified as a french national. it is someone who is a suspect. that is the official categorization of him by french police. they are seeking him in connection with the paris attacks on friday. there's been some questioning whether there were seven or eight attackers. there are seven known to be dead. whether there was an eighth remains in question. whether this man is being sought as the potential eighth suspect, hands-on suspect, in those terror attacks on friday we do not know. he has been identified. french police know who he is. he is a french national. this is really the beginning of a panic, if not even a stampede to exit the place de la republique where people had gathered to pay tribute to those who had died and come together in solidarity. people around this memorial,

another vantage point, all of them leaving in a very quick way because of reports of gunfire. there were reports of sounds of gunfire. police began talking to nbc's lester holt who was over there. richard lui heard the same thing. his camera was trampled. had to get out of the way. unable to do a live shot literally seconds before we were going to go to him. also jose diaz-bilart was over there ending another broadcast for telemundo and the same thing happened. people were saying stay away. kelly cobiella on the ile st. louis by notre dame cathedral was being told don't go in front of notre dame cathedral. it shows this wave of panic, insecurity, frightened people on

edge there in paris as what we believe to be the origination of those sounds, firecrackers. mere firecrackers. whoever might have been putting that out may not have been thinking quite appropriately. but firecrackers. and that can make a loud popping sound. but the speed with which the wave of panic spread through a lot of the center of paris is remarkable, and quite a testimony to the very much city on edge there these 48 hours after the attacks on friday night. i'm joined also by former fbi deputy director shawn joyce. i understand you have something to add in terms of this panic wave. what's that? >> i think it's very typical when you have a major terrorist event like this. one of their objectives is to instill fear. they've been temporarily successful. as the days will evolve with the french people's resiliency and

our solidarity with them, we will defeat these terrorists. after 9/11, we had similar incidents. after the boston marathon attacks. this is very typical. nerves are frayed. people are very jittery, on edge and just trying to adjust to what, unfortunately, i think, is becoming a new normal. >> sean, you also have to remember that in regards to paris and back in january, the charlie hebdo attack, there was the grocery store attack, and that did come -- it was a legitimate attack that came in the waves afterwards. how vulnerable is paris overall to a second wave of attacks? >> i think they are very vulnerable, right? europe is different from the united states in a couple of ways. one is the geographical boundaries. two is the concentration of radicalized muslims that exist in certain parts of the country. you've already seen listenings to belgium. a certain part of belgium where not only did the train attacker

in august that was subdued by the two americans, he actually stayed in this area. we're seeing the rental car was actually rented by a person that had an address in this area. so i think europe has many, many challenges. and then when you add on to that the influx of immigrants, it is really overwhelming to the police in the intelligence agencies over there to really combat this threat. >> what's happening in brussels? what has developed there? how long has that been a place that by all accounts from every expert i've spoken with over these last couple of days. they say they are not surprised. none of them is surprised by the fact there is a connection to brussels. >> that isn't surprising. and as many people may not know, they have the most people per capita that have traveled to syria and iraq to fight on behalf of isis. so that, for some time now, has

been what i think intelligence agencies, not only in europe, but in the united states are well aware of. and are concerned about the flow of individuals that have traveled to syria and iraq and now traveled back. they've known for some time, and i think it's just something that we're going to have to deal with in a different way unless these attacks -- well, these attacks will continue to happen. >> sean, we've had the meeting of the heads of intelligence. the national security council that gathered before the president took off for the g-20 summit in turkey. you've sat in countless of these types of meetings. how alarmed overall is the intelligence community that this was completely missed? there was no heads-up. there was nothing that indicated a terrorist attack of this nature was imminent. >> i think they are alarmed by the complex of the attack and the number of venues that were

hit. i don't think anyone is surprised there was a terrorist event in europe. i think the national security team is really looking at now this is a pivot point. so we have to make sure, you know, if this happened in washington or new york, what would we be doing? what we have to look at is, what would we do so this does not happen in washington and/or new york or another major european city. so that's what i think they are really thinking about. >> okay. trying to take some lessons from the past and look ahead to protecting the future. sean joyce, thank you for joining us and for standing by as well as we got through this breaking news. i appreciate that. i'm going to bring in cal perry with msnbc with the discovery desk. lots of reaction on the social media sites since the attacks. we didn't get it right in the very beginning -- not that we didn't get it right, we just didn't know what was happening until someone takes responsibility and says it's a

firecracker. >> not a lot of subtlety when it comes to social media. we were talking about how people were able to tweet out information from that theater. on a day like today, when fear is so high, the initial reports on social media about this panic were sounds of gunfire heard and that, obviously, we're hearing it was probably firecrackers. it reminds me of this being france's 9/11. remember canal street in new york? that was evacuated time and time again because people were in that place where they were filled with fear. back to this social media double-edge thing. i was sitting here with you about 30 hours ago and a photo surfaced on social media. this is the "not afraid" photo. let's pull it up if we can. >> that's the one you sent me as well. >> social media puts out a photo and says this is people taking to the streets of paris in solidarity to show that they are grieving with the attackers.

turned out to be a photo taken after the charlie hebdo attacks. everybody in paris was under curfew. you see how social media can be a tool we can use and we have to be very aware that people will intentionally spread misinformation. >> also the instantaneous ability to communicate via social media. if you are near the sound of firecrackers going on, considering what that sounds like compared to an untrained -- so people tweet out -- >> i'm hearing gunshots. and that's going to be the first thing that pops to your head. you're in paris today. it's going to be the first thing that pops in your head in any major city today. everybody is a little on edge. this is what's happening in social media. people are taking the conversation to that place where everybody is on edge. everybody is aware. >> i know that social media has been stirring up an anti-immigrant sentiment. what are you seeing along those lines? >> so people after what has been a barbaric and horrifying attack

are letting their voices be heard. and a lot of people, especially in europe, are saying this is the result of a refugee crisis. this is the result of open borders. we do not have this, people saying this on social media, we don't have the luxury of a country like as france, the uk, germany, to allow so many refugees in because there's this growing paranoia that they're going to embed with the refugees and -- >> that is something that was a concern when it first started through these areas and with the syrian passport that's been shown to come through that greek island, then seeking asylum in serbia, the syrian passport found by the body of one of the suicide attackers in paris. >> and you were dead on right a few hours ago when you asked, is it possible that isis is intentionally spreading false information? isis came out a few months ago and said we're going to get involved in this refugee crisis and change the way people think about it and spin it on our

advantage. if there's a backlash against the refugee population in europe and just 1% of those people are radicalized, that's 100,000 people. >> yeah, okay. cal perry, good to have you with us. we'll see you very shortly again soon. let's go back to richard lui. you are still by the place de la republique? yep, okay, people have come back. they left in a state of panic about an hour ago now. what's the mood? have a lot of new people come or did people who left in a panic return? >> you know, they probably left here, alex. it's now exactly one hour ago that that evacuation, that stampede that happened really outside of the plaza itself. they were all kind of boxed in. there are cars that are all around this side at least of the plaza. and when that event did happen, it was at the end, something on the other side.

we're on the northeast end. it's on the other side. that is where at least the law enforcement officials were concentrating their efforts. so they were all running our way. and on this side, it is, if you were to look and see what i can see, it is a line of maybe 40 vans. so they all ran here quickly, and then they only had these small passageways. that's where the concern was. i saw two or three individuals that had fallen just between the two vans in front of me and the concern is safety and people getting injured. once they got into the street behind us as they were running towards a mcdonald's which is right behind the camera, that's when you really saw people picking up speed. and it was a false alarm. the question is, though, as we were going through that developing news, when kelly cobiella was also reporting something and lester holt as well, how these were all happening at the same time. that may be a question to be asked. what was it that may have caused

that simultaneous reaction? but for us, it was a complete surprise because there was no indication. no sound. no scream, if you will. nothing that would have indicated that that should have happened. but right now, a number of people here, it's about a quarter of what we had just exactly one hour ago when that incident happened. >> so, richard, i'm looking at the group behind you. police presence? how prevalent is that? and also did you, by chance, go and check out the memorial? we saw people running through the memorial, over the flowers, the candles. was that at all marred as a result of the relative stampede there? >> yeah, you know, for this memorial, this particular monument and what is surrounded, the monument itself in the middle is about 25 feet side to side.

and the -- there's a ledge that sits about a foot up and that's where all the flowers and messages and candles are at. so it would be very difficult to run over that. i think some of the video we had may have been from other parts of the plaza or at another location because i did see there were individuals that fell as they were running through the memorial or the vigil. but that was, since you bring up that question, a location where law enforcement was keenly looking through once our cameras went down. they were investigating to see, was there something there that might be of concern. that's when we had about ten or 12 officers from this angle and where we're at, were looking through and then they started to focus their energy and rifles where it says wall street english is the space across on the other side where they were really focusing on.

and then we got the all clear that you had mentioned. >> i've got to tell you, that wall street english is a little too close for comfort that space in terms of where your vantage point is. i'm glad you are safe, despite having everybody come your way pretty quickly and you weren't able to get out of the way in time. thanks for that. we'll come back with you. i want to bring in michael balboni, the former director for new york. people on edge. is this a worst case scenario it will be one thing after the next and then at some point people develop a sense of complacency? >> director joyce had it right. terrorism is meant to terrorize. what people have to be concerned about in a security world is secondary devices trying to mar any of the monuments that have been set up. of course issue it, it's a city and will remain that way for a

while. i don't know how long it will take, but they are resilient. this is one of the elements that cities like paris are going to suffer through in an aftermath of an attack this savage. >> obviously, police have to do exactly what they did. they don't know the duration of the sounds of gunfire. it sure sounds like it if you are setting off firecrackers. they have to respond and protect the citizens, get them out of the way and then go and investigate. these can also be diversary tactics for something legitimate. does that concern you? >> once you get a society on edge the way it is now, it's very easy, particularly using social media to be able to send out false messages. send out the panic notes to try to get a reaction from the site itself. and that's something that is incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to stop. and what it really takes is the ability of law enforcement to monitor and just get out very quickly and say, no, no, this is

okay. but in the meantime, if you are in that area when that is targeted with the false messaging, you'll be experiencing that kind of response. >> okay. michael, we had planned to have a further conversation but given this breaking news we went with that as it develops in new york. thank you so much. for all of you, we're going to take a short break. on the other side, up-to-the-minute headlines and all the latest news in summary form from paris. stay with us on msnbc. discover card hey! so i'm looking at my bill

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police ran for their lives after what police say was a false alarm that may have been triggered by firecrackers. clearly people are on edge on the tragic events of friday. french police have released this photo of a suspect they are seeking. the police tweet says this man here is implicated in the attacks of november 13th. they are not saying if he is the eighth attacker. there's been discrepe apkrecrep whether there were seven suicide attackers or eight. seven bodies were found. they are simply saying they are looking for him in connection with the paris attacks and have also identified him as a french national. also a special mass is being held at the notre dame. people started lining up very early this morning to gather together and pay tribute to the victims. also the eiffel tower remains closed today as the security measure remains very tight in the city. thousands of troops have been

patrolling the streets. many of the city's museums and theaters remain closed. it is an altogether unusual sunday in the city of light. let's go back to richard lui at the place de la republique. >> it was quite something. in the video we've been showing was all of those people running towards us. that was our camera position at the time. i was describing earlier how a lot of those running off the northeast side of the plaza from what was the opposite of what's behind me, they were going down into the republique subway or underground station which meant, therefore, reaction that happened below. jake is -- was there trying to get off at that time. you also work for the daily mail. this is something you've been covering for the last several days. first, tell me what happened when you tried to get off the subway station about 100 feet

from where we're standing. >> where we are now is where all the world's media has come. my hotel is right here. lots of journalists are staying there. i was going back to my hotel, about to the doors opened, a very loud scream, screaming announcement came over the metro and the doors opened by 60 or 70 people dashed down onto the platform and jumped on the train. there was a great sense of panic. they started to run down the train to get away from the entrance. nobody got off. everyone waited. the doors closed and it went down to the next stop where i got off. >> did you see anybody who may have been injured? we saw two or three people who may have been trampled. >> there was one man sitting down on the bench beside the road. his hand was covered with blood and he had been injured in the stampede effectively. had fallen over and cut his hand on a piece of glass. >> jake, one of the story lines that we've been following here is that there's such a mix of emotion right now and it's -- is it boiling over?

is it simmering? >> well, what i have seen over the last couple days covering this story is a lot of sorrow. a lot of people visiting the scenes of the attacks. floods of tears, sobbing, hugging each other. a lot of defiance and a lot of courage. but also what we've seen today is a lot of fear as well. there's a lot of tension simmering here in paris, and it just goes to show that can be sparked off in a moment and there's a stampede and a panic. >> jake, thank you so much for stopping by. glad you're okay. i appreciate it. and so, alex, you can see that tension on first day of mourning still exists here. tomorrow on monday a first day of work for this town that is -- this city that has gone through so much. >> and has there been a public announcement about the moment of silence for a minute at noon tomorrow citywide? anyone who may be back at work, kids trying to go back to school. i know they're going to try to put that into effect. have you heard about that as

well? >> reporter: we have, but it's not something that those that we might meet would talk about. right now i think -- it's interesting you say that moment of silence because behind me it has been since we've been standing here ten hours of silence. it is eerily quieted when you get close to the monument behind me. ten people deep all the way around. you don't hear a thing, alex. people are just stopping to think what does this mean, what can i do? and then they walk away, and i said paris is crying and it's because i saw so many people, young and old, wiping an eye after they walked away from the monument. >> you know, which may explain in part why the effect of those firecrackers, if that's what it turns out to be, had such a profound effect. i mean, if it's a quiet community and you hear that pop, pop, pop, that's going to be heard by a lot of people and,

thus shtio thus, the panic and the results of people running your way there on the place de la republique. for all of you, stay with us, we'll bring you the headlines and updates after a short break here on msnbc. the cold truth is... [coughing] okay kids, let's go. no one can really fill your shoes when you're sick. [toy car electric motor] [toy car horn beeping] alka-seltzer plus hot drink mix has four cold symptom fighters to relieve your tough symptoms. [whoosh of steam] [deep breath] stay unstoppable. alka-seltzer plus. it's how i try to live...

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56 past, everyone p here are the up to the minute headlines. the death toll resulting from friday's attack has risen to 132. more than 300 people injured. a moment of panic in pair race an hour ago as a crowd gathered at the place de la republique. police in the city -- people rather in the city still on edge after the tragic events of friday. french police have released this photograph of a suspect they are seeing. the police tweet says this person is implicated in the attacks of november 13th. they're not saying if he is the eighth attacker. they are simply saying they are looking for him in connection with the paris attacks. he is known to be a french

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take off his shirt! take off his shirt! oh! ah! alright, i'm putting you in charge of the holiday party. (vo) get rid of cable and upgrade to directv. call 1-800-directv. this sunday morning, a special edition of "meet the press." terror in paris. france's 9/11. how did it happen? what signs did french intelligence miss? dot we need a new strategy to confront isis? and can we prevent the terror from reaching the united states? we'll talk to our correspondents on the ground and an eyewitness to the theater massacre, top government officials, and an expert on terrorism. plus, terror in the campaign. >> this is america's campaign. >> the democrats debated last night and jeb bush joins us this morning. do the current events lessen the appeal of the outers.