coordinated attacks with small arms and human bombs. assailants wearing suicide vests tearing across one of the cultural capitals of the world. as of this hour, 129 of the world. as of this hour 129 people dead, 352 wounded, 99 in serious condition. >> this morning an international man hunt underway for suspects in the worst attack on france since world war ii. they've already responded by dropping bombs on isis headquarterers in syria. more than 150 police raids carried out over night with several arrests made so far. >> the big question here is what is the obama administration's next move and where else can this happen? good morning. it's monday, november 16th. welcome to morning joe. with us on set we have msnbc contributor mike barnical,

senior editor -- in boston, supreme commander, now the dean with hired four star navy admiral. and in paris, paris based foreign editor of the daily beast, christopher dickey. good to have you all on board. we have a big line up this morning including presidential candidates donald trump and lindsey graham, john mccain, congressman mike, police commissioner bill braton and the only member of the senate to sit on both the senate and homeland security committees. >> obviously, mika, this weekend everybody's been gripped by the horrific moves that started friday night.

i know at least everybody i've spoken with this changes everything. >> it is a turning point in the fight against isis. we'll be looking at everything differently. we'll say that carefully as we move ahead. this morning we're learning of new anti terror raids in france. the identity of two more attackers. one suspect slipped past the police dragnet and out of the country. overnight, more than 150 searches were executed throughout france as authorities identify another attacker of the stadium. another of the shooters at the vatican concert hall where 89 victims were killed. meanwhile, french authorities are searching for a 26-year-old possible accomplice in the deadly attack. a senator who has been briefed

tells the man was stopped at the border and let go. the suspect's name was on the remember tral papers by one of the cards used by the attackers. as of just minutes ago the associated press has reported the french officials have identified a master mind behind the attacks. authorityings believe him to be the master mind of the train attacks. a lot to get through. >> let's just, i want to give your thoughts as you saw it. a lot of us sitting there watching that friday night. through the weekend, i said mika, there's an understanding that this is, what has gone forward cannot go forward. we're going to have to look at this group in a different way much like america had to after 911. >> obviously, this was a horror

for the french and a lot of people in the united states realized this isn't a regional group. it extends in europe and it led people to the next question could it happen here in united states? watching what happened friday you can't say anything other than yes. >> and news came out last week unrelated mike barnical where there's a substantial amount of fuel on the black market and somebody has enough vice i think center of republican integrity and said they have enough, somebody out there has enough nuclear fuel to fuel a nuclear bomb. if there's anybody watching that doesn't think isis wouldn't use that if they had the ability to use that on the western capitol, they're out of their mind. why do we keep underestimating isis and have a president that

called them jv and friday said they were contained and over the weekend said they couldn't strike here. that doesn't give most americans a sense of confidence that we still don't get the understanding of how dangerous this group is. >> a couple of things occurred over the weekend. everything has changed including the american political campaigns. those have changed drastically. the other thing that has changed is that the focus now has to be on our syrian policy or lack of policy. the syrian civil war has to be settled. that's one of the elements in terms of dealing with isis. the other element is the president of france said this is an act of war. well, what are we going to do? >> let's ask admiral. this is an act of war. clearly an act of war. from 1945 to 1991 was very clear

what would happen if a nato power were attacked this way. nato would go to war with that belligerent force. do we need to do that now? >> i think we do. if you look, joe, at the only time so called article five of the treaty, an attack on one is an attack on all. the only time it's been evoked in the history of alliance is after 911 when united states was attacked by al qaeda. this is very much comparable and i believe the alliance is going to have to step up. look at this as article five and have a concertive response to it in syria. >> what's the concertive response? >> the u.s., france especially

vulnerable in europe because it has a large muslim population. some of their attackers because of the large flow of people coming across from syria. because of its long troubled history. u.s.a. is much further away. b. has already been on alert ever since 9/11. >> this is what's so frightening about the attack. i was talking to people this weekend and a couple members of the atlanta counsel said what's so frightening is france has

been on alert and put 10,000 troops across the country to protect soft targets. >> now. >> no, over the past six months, since the last terror attack and the fact that isis could do this while france is on high alert makes things all the more frightening. >> i still think france's position, history and geographical position makes it more vulnerable. not to say that the u.s. shouldn't be worried. i think to imagine that ours is stronger than theirs is a mistake. >> chris dickey, we talked about how the situation in france is unique and they have not been able to absorb their muslim population as the united states has been able to do here, that is a concern. allege also, the question is what does france do moving forward? they have been on high alert and

the worst attack since world war ii. >> they have been on my alert but in the wrong places. you can't be in the right places. these were soft targets. some of the targets were outdoor caves. how are you going to defend those? put soldiers outside every cafe? i don't think so. i think it's an exaggerated fear in every case. this operation was mounted out of belgium with some people from france, some who have came in from syria and the master mind appears to be someone who lives in a ghetto in central brusles. it's insane to think the united states is anyway protected with any of its policies from this kind of attack.

all of them have been absolutely terrified of the prospect of the concerted attack by teams of commandos which is what happened here and could happen easily in the united states. >> when you hear the white house saying isis likes the capability to conduct these types of attacks in the united states after saying they've been contained. that obviously has to put somebody like you on high alert. you have to be concerned for the same reasons chris was just saying. >> chris was right. if you start to di sect the events that unfolded in paris, look at the explosives, t.a.p.t. that can be manufactured by ingredients with training. somebody can go out in the open market and make that.

there's no shortage of soft targets and am in addition. no shortage of soft people in the united states. the fbi, n.y.p.d. and other major police departments in the country do a good job monitoring people who want to support isis and other terror groups. there's so many in the mix now and a limited number of law enforcement tools to follow them. >> president obama told abc that isis had been quote contained. >> i don't think they're gaining strength. what is true is from the start our goal has been to first contain. we have contained them. they have not gained ground in iraq. and in syria, they'll come in, they'll leave. but you don't see the systematic

march by isil across the terrain. >> that's a problem. they go in, leave, some return home. it is, let me just ask you, why is the president underestimating? why do you believe, what have you heard from the contacts in the government, why does the president feel the need, the necessity to continue to underestimate the reach of isis? >> he has a deeper version in planting more american troops in the region of the world. he's going to be leaving office with a huge growing war on his hands. he's got one now. what isis acomp leacomplished t weekend is something they could do here because we more than any country in the world have a target rich environment. that's what we have here.

isis is a terrorist group. they inflicted terror on the city of paris and can inflict terror any time, any place, anywhere. >> just think the last couple of weeks what's happened. taking down a plane and in paris three different types of attacks all carried out by a group that showed you can do things in different ways in the done tremendous. >> admiral, we sit back and isis, we have a containment policy for isis. they don't look contained for most americans. meanwhile, they continue to make millions of dollars on oil. they continue to make millions of dollars on the black market in other ways. while we sit back and quote contain them their power only grows and their ability to reach manhatt manhattan, charlotte, los angel

angeles, boston, oklahoma city. you name the city, that only grows. >> indeed, it does. they are not contained in terms of capability and that's what they've shown us. what nato needs to be doing is going after this as an article five event. i would argue amping up the not only the bombing campaign but the north who can fight with the islamic state. we need to go at the iraqi security forces in the south and reener jazz them. we're going to have to put more boots on the ground probably 10-15,000. we need to get after this. >> here's what they're looking at. president obama is in turkey for the g-23 summit and in the wake of other terrorist attacks he and other world leaders are vowing to increase the pressure on isis. >> the skies have been darkened

by the horrific attacks that took place in paris. as was true with the terrible attacks that took place -- the killing of innocent people based on twisted ideology is an attack not just on france, not just on turkey, but it's an attack on the civilized world. >> possibilities include more air strikes, special operations raids and assisting local allies. the president met with russian president on the sidelines of the summit. according to the white house they discussed goals for finding a political resolution to the political war in syria. >> i want to ask you, come on

our show. we just have to, let's be honest about it. did that commander in chief sitting in a g-20 summit while western civilization is coming to terms with what their new reality looks like, does he look like he is engaged and understands the level of threat? if you were a frenchman or french woman would you be reassured by what you've been hearing from the president today and oh tver the weekend? >> i think he looks fully engaged. >> mika. >> i think at some point the objects of it need to match the magnitude of what's happening. >> what's that mean? >> meaning this is as bad as it gets since 9/11 and there's going to need to be a multipronged fight against isis

and we're going to have to talk about the migrant crisis at some point because that's going to raise issue ins terms of thousand handle that. >> victor, i don't want to turn this into a debate but how is he engaged, mike? this is a president that's been under selling the threat of isis to the world. his words friday were unfortunate, his words during the 2012 campaign were unfortuna unfortunate, the words this weekend saying isis didn't have the capability to hit us here were unfortunate. i don't understand and millions of americans don't understand and i guarantee you a lot of people in france don't understand why this president still feels like isis is contained and everything is okay. >> i think one out elements the administration is working on, i've been told they were much more optimistic than we've been lead to believe.

russia and putin and president obama have the framework of an agreement with isad is going to leave sooner or later. >> that's a good example, willie, over the past several years. none of us have wanted to send 200,000 troops to syria to end that civil war but we have seen here in real time 20,000 syrians killed, 40,000 killed, we've announced 60,000 killed, a hundred thousand killed and now 200,000 killed. 4 million refugees. the chaos continues and the white houses response has been confusing at best. >> well, if that, if what mike is saying is true, it's not clear to me how isad leaving

changes things. syria becomes more chaotic and a launching pad. the air strikes, they went through great lengths showing the planes taking off. those are air strikes the united states have been carrying out. what's now the larger strategy? >> what's the larger goal? i would love to ask what would winning this war look like? >> i think the first step is that the united states isn't going to do this alone. it is to build a coalition centered on nato and bring all that capability to bare. what it's going to look like in my view is a partition of syria. you're going to see the nation break apart into an ali west, soonny center and curdish east. that's a few steps away but the analogy is the buall kins in th 1990s.

that's what the diplomatic political effort going ton in vienna has to accomplish alongside the military effort that we're talking about this morning. you need both. >> well, willie, we've been talking about this also around this table, the possible division of syria and having the united nations having nato step in if the international institutions still need anything and treat syria the way jeremy was treated in 1945. the turks may be controlling a sector, the united states and our european allies may be controlling the sector. maintaining the status quo is no longer possible. a few strikes here and there. a few special forces troops here and there, that's nonsense. go back and look at the tapes. people who continue to say as ben rhodes said at the white house this weekend that we're

going to quote train syrian troops and iraqi troops on the ground, we've been saying well over a year that's nonsense. that's babble. that will lead to nothing happening and of course, reports have come out there all we've done is waste hundreds of millions of dollars. the partition plan may be a good long term plan. >> what is this now? >> what are you going to do right now? let's go to paris. nbc news chief is there and he's been covering the story for the last several days. what can you tell us now about the anti terror raids carried out overnight in france? >> the attackers will not win. it's not quiet clear that france is striking back both at home and abroad. as you say, raids this morning

really were quiet extriaordinar in their scope. some gave more details of those raids. he said there were 168 raids altogether resulting in 123 formal arrest and 104 others being arrested. we were told these raids were unknown people who had showed support for what happened. we're also told 31 guns were seized in these raids and a rocket launcher. clearly a quiet comprehensive set of raids. also, a french prime minister warning this morning of more attacks to come. he said this is something we've got to get use to. he said more attacks are being planned in france and in syria. so a very, very somber warning

to the french people here. they also woke up this morning to the pictures you've seen of french war planes. in their biggest attack on isis targets so far. a dozen french war planes took off from bases in jordan. they attacked isis targets and their strong hold, i understand they also attacked oil trucks that carry the oil that fuels isis' war chest. u.s. forces also involved in those raids. so both home and abroad france is striking back revenge is in the air. >> bill, thank you very much. coming up, we're putting america's national security under the microscope. joining us donald trump who warned the refugees fleeing syria could pose a trojan horse scenario.

plus senator john mccain, republican presidential candidate, senator lindsey graham. also chairman of the committee, congressman mike mccall and a senator to sit on intelligence and homeland security center, senator james lank ford and here on set bill braton. how the paris attacks reshape the race for president here at home. plus live reports from europe, the middle east and washington. you're watching morning joe, we'll be right back. it's more than the cloud. it's security - and flexibility. it's where great ideas and vital data are stored. with centurylink you get advanced technology solutions from a trusted it partner. including cloud and hosting services - all backed by an industry leading broadband network and people committed to helping you grow your business. you get a company that's more than just the sum of it's parts. centurylink.

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in orlando, florida, manager editor of bloomberg politics, mark. a lot to get to this morning. we'll start with the candidates back on the campaign trail yesterday. a day after their second debates. the paris attacks were a major

foc focus and tend to overshadow the policy and campaigns on the trail. here's how the candidates responded when they were asked to characterize the threat posed with like-minded terrorist around the world. >> you mentioned radical juhadist. >> i don't think we're at war with islam. i don't think we're at war with all muslims. i think we're at war with juhadist. >> he just said radical islam. is that a phrase you don't -- >> i think you can talk about islamist who are clearly also juhadist. it's not helpful to make the case that senator sanders was just making i agree with we got to reach out to muslim countries and have them be a part of your coalition. >> very quickly, do either of

you use that phrase? >> i don't think the term is what's important. what is important to understand is we have organizations whether it's isis or al qaeda who believe we should go back several thousand years and make women third class citizens that we should allow children to be sexually assaulted. that they are a danger to modern society and that this world with american leadership can and must come together to destroy them. we can do that. >> the critiquing is the softness of language betrays a softness of approach. if this language, if you don't call it by what it is, how can the approach be effective to the cause? that's the critique. >> i believe calling it like it is is radical juhadist. let's not fall in the trab thinking all muslim american

neighbors are somehow enemies here. they are our first line of defense. >> how stupid do they think we are? nobody's calling all muslims terrorist. nobody's suggesting the majority. how stupid do they think we are? you have to recognize the threat, the threat is radical islam. >> how is use of the phrase radical islam going to inflame isis more than it's already inflamed. radical islam is an aspect of the truth of what's going on. no country in the world has reached out to muslims and muslim communities are more than the united states. >> none. by the way, we absorb muslims better than any country in the world. nonmuslim country in the world which is why we haven't had as

many problems as say france has. steve, i was looking at the guest this morning and they're mainly republicans coming on. we ask democrats, top democratic leaders to come on and everybody was busy today. nobody wanted to talk about what poses a real threat to western civilization and you have democrats. i'll just say, denzil washington in philadelphia. i don't get it. talk to me like a fourth grader. why don't you call radical islam radical islam? i tell you if southern baptist were going around doing this, i would be talking about how we have to hunt down and kill radical southern baptist that are shooting people in the streets of paris. >> when you look at the strength and resolve shown by democratic presidents and the history of this country, franklin roosevelt, john kennedy, american leaders, absolutely willing to talk directly and

honestly to the american people about the nature of the threat and you look at the if he canlessness of these answers by these candidates, simply shocking. it is radical islam. no one is suggesting that it is all of islam. it is radical islam and they are not willing to say at least even what general c.c., the leader of egypt has said in confronting the nature of the threat talking directly, talking directly about it. so we have to name the name. we have to communicate clearly who it is that we're fighting in order to understand directly what it is that we are fighting. >> one of the most con ten, back and forths of the evening came when bernie sanders went after hillary clinton for her ties to wall street over the years. part of clinton's defense included a reference to her elements following 9/11. a tie in her opponents have sense jumped all over. >> here's the story. let's not be naive about it.

why over her political career has wall street been the major campaign contributor to hillary clinton? now, maybe they're dumb and they don't know what they're going to get but i don't think so. >> basically, that is his answer to impew my integrity. wait a minute senator. i represented new york and represented new york on 9/11. where we were attacked. where were we attacked? downtown manhattan where wall street is. i did spend a whole lot of time and effort helping them rebuild. it was good for new york and good for the economy and a way. >> sometimes we do good at answers in moments like this. one treated during the bait. it is hard to debate how little sense clintons i took contributions from wall treat because they got hit on 9/11.

mark, it is quiet frankly, hillary clinton at her very worst. >> she was hit today by the new york times. she's going to continue to be hit by people on all sides. i suspect she's going to have to come out and clarify what she said and say she was sorry for it. she was forced off script. this is a testing for everyone running for president and one of her weaknesses besides having to defend the current president's record, one of her weaknesses, her vast experience on national security and ability to talk fluidly about the world comes off sometimes. >> they double down. >> the clinton campaign could out this statement, reads in part as new york senator after 9/11 hillary rebuilt the financial industry based in lower manhattan and proud to stood by her home state economy after disaster struck during her

time as senator. >> she had an answer ready for 9/11 about another question and asked about wall street and uses her 9/11 on that question. she didn't mean it. taste mistake. just say it's a receipt. >> george w. bush said if we want to beat the terrorist, go shopping at a mall. hillary clinton at the same time was saying if you want to beat the terrorist, give me big contributions for my political campaign. she's saying in this statement and at the debate that she is beating the terrorist by wall street billionairs writing checks to her.

>> what she did here was just so craving and it displays an aspect of her character that explains so fully why she is so deeply unpoplar with the american people and particular in the middle of the electorate. >> it's the kind of comment if another candidate made could you imagine the attacks? >> could you imagine if a republican said it? >> over. >> it's confounding. coming up, we're following a new place raid in belgium this morning, mika. >> report this is morning, a suspect from the terrorist attacks who may have slipped away. we'll look into that straight ahead on morning joe. real madrid have about 450 million fans.

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this morning we're following a police operation underway. you're looking at live pictures. their relationship to the attacks are unknown. there were reports that one believed to be connected to the paris attacks had been arrested but this morning the town's mayor said he's not yet in custody and escaped during the police operation.

our next guest spent decades in counter ter rations across the. retired operator joins the conversation. plus lebanon, a city struck by isis bombings just days before the massacre in paris. stay with us. ♪ have you ever thought, "i could never do that"? have you ever thought... you just didn't have anything left in the tank?

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arresting the master mind behind that terrorist attack thursday. in addition to security forces here in lebanon, they say they've managed to break up several other smaller cells that were planning to carry out attacks including an individual responsible for smuggling the suicide bombers from thursday's attack across the border. in addition we know security officials have been trying to step up some of their surveillance on suspects and also trying to track down individuals who may have been involved in planning previous attacks. this is one of the deadliest suicide bombing attacks in resent years and the lebanon people have been expressing their disappointment with the lack of what the national media has been putting on what happened here thursday night. they do are victims of the isis terrorism that has not only gripped paris but so many other countries in the region.

>> let's go now to philadelphia. retired u.s. navy collections operator, mal con whose the author of the bookend to al qaeda. what's your reaction to what you saw on friday and the response that ought to be levied by the world. they decided to nesh appreciate this massive attack inside of france. i think now they're going to suffer the consequences. >> have we underestimated isis to this point? >> i don't believe we've underestimated isis. isis as far as the media is concerned is a new organization.

to the blens community where i come from, they're the fifth generation of al qaeda. >> how do we defeat isis? >> there's two ways of going at this. the bomb way and sniper units. the one thing we haven't tried and i've been working this issue for five years in the intelligence community and that's called counter ideology warfare. the link between isis and islam is not just tenuous. isis itself is an islamic cult

and that's one word people have been playing around the edges with. if you watch their actual operations and what they believe inside their ideology, they're almost anti islamic. in some respects, you know, it's hard to call them radical islam when in fact most muslims consider them apos at a times. they appear to be the voice of the muslim voice. >> would islamic cult be a better term to use for isis? >> muslims disparj them by calling them the first cult. >> for isis to grow, it has to

recruit. to recruit it has to win. its growth has been stunted in iraq and syria. how much of what played out in paris over the weekend is a recruitment tool? >> oh, it's a dramatic recruitment tool. this is the core of some of the original calls by osama bin laden in the 90s. there's an element of jealousy and pride. >> malcom, thank you very much

for being on the show this morning. coming up, two of the leading voices on capitol hill. senators john mccain and lindsey graham join us for a joint interview, plus republican presidential candidate donald trump will join us. we'll get specifics on his strategy in the war against isis. morning joe back in a moment.

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saturday night live delivered that message to paris after the attacks. a new police raid underway right now as the international man hunt continues for those behind the attacks in paris. we'll have the latest, plus the new debate over the process in europe and what roll the u.s. should play in resettling the

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those were performances of the french national anthem. welcome back to morning joe. back with us, we have the new york times and joining the conversation editor of the weekly standard, bill crystal. president and ceo of the aspen institute and in washington and nbc correspond nt and host of andrea mitchell reports, andrea mitchell. the hunt the under way for the members of the sleeper cell that struck paris on friday. we are learning of dozens of new anti terror raids in france and belgium. the identity of two more of the ata attackers and that one suspect in friday's deadly assault slipp slipped past the police dragnet. overnight seven are in belgiums raids this morning as authorities identify another

attacker at the stadium near whom a syrian passport was found and another shooter where 89 of friday's 129 victims were kil d killed. they say the man was stopped at the border and let go. he was on the rental papers by one of the cars used by one of the attackers said the senators but the authorities had not yet put out an alert on him. the town's mayor who says he's not yet in custody claiming he escaped during the police operation and the soerkted press is reporting french officials identified a suspected master mind behind the attacks. he is beljan.

>> we're hearing about raids on terror cells acrass europe and hearing that the french launched attacks and blue up a command and control center. the question is what is it after all these months of bombing. >> there's tough questions we're going to have to answer. are we going to have the rely on russia on this? >> that's difficult. do we want russia back in the

middle east? some of these questions is because we haven't quiet figured out if isis is the third one is we seen the debate where the fbi is saying all the sec companies are not allowing any, they're having end to end and not allowing any way for legal warranted wiretaps to be done. are we going to say let's go back to that both in europe and america and not allow the sowing of the type of communication devices. >> actually these are very specific tough questions. the tougher general question is what is our strategy?

what is our strategy in syria? the president doesn't see it as a credible threat to the united states. on friday he said it was contained the night before attacks. he's called them a jv team. what is our strategy? >> our strategy now is after this has got to be get into an alliance of people with real troops. >> the question is what has been the united states of america's strategy over the past two or three or four years while we've seen 20,000, 40,000, 80,000, a hundred. i was on armed services committee when this was happening in the balkins. we saw the numbers go in real

time. what do we do moving forward? >> syria is not an easy question. would you have voted to send in american troops into syria. >> the president has been saying and we've all been saying syria is not an easy issue to handle. that's not a strategy.

this is my point. we've been saying syria is tough now for three years. in that time, this has gone since three years ago when i voted for the troops. this is a clear and present danger not only to the united states but western civilization. >> i would vote to be part of a large force, international force to go in there because what guided me in the 1990s when i made votes like these, it was the powell doctrine. it was the wineberger doctrine. there had to be a clear specific present to the united states national security. >> that's a valid approach. >> we can expand that out to say it's a threat not only to the united states of america but is it not a threat to american civilizati

civilization? >> absolutely. i think now you've got some tough choices to make because our allies against that threat aren't our traditional allies. we're going to put together a coalition and do it with iran and russia. >> bill crystal, those are fighting words obviously when you talk about iran. obviously, george h.w. bush in 1981 made an alliance with syria when it was necessary going against iraq. do we fold in russia? do we bring in iran in this fight against isil? >> we don't need to. allies can join us if we're like-minded. a lot predicted this could spin out of control. we have millions dead in the mideast and it is an assault on

western civilization. i would support it for the use of military force without restrictions and not sending in ground troops. do what you have to do. the point you made earlier is the key point. >> how do they have a command and control center and ammo dumps we had? >> because the white house would not sign off on the request to bomb areas. >> why not? >> it's simple because there wasn't an engagement for the air w war. it's terrible we let it get to

this position. >> after an event like this, do we see a shift in strategy and tone from the white house? >> you would expect so. i've got to tell you up until now they are still saying that they are not going to ramp up into a major ground war and ground troops. first of all, i'm trying to figure out your question about our allies. how does a nato engagement which is now being discussed coordinate with russian air strike ins that same space? russia and nato will not work together. so how is that going to be coordinated? that requires a great deal more. conflicting to use the phrase than has been taking place so far to take americans separate from the russian air strikes. >> let me ask you a question. you've said this a couple of times that nato and russia could not work together to coordinate air strikes. why isn't that being negotiated

right now? i suspect it will be. >> maybe it will be but it certainly isn't already. what we're told so far is from nato headquarterers is france has not requested an article four which is consultations to say nothing asking for article five. it's only been used once since 9/11. the fact that there's been no real -- behind that and meetings friday and saturday with russia, with iran and the saudis, those were the first meetings of all 19 of the scountries involved. this is going to be a long process to get iran, russia and the saudis and the united states to agree on a cease fire and on

a plan going forward. what they're acknowledging and reluctant to say is this means isad stays through a time being for some negotiating through an exit strategy. that would be volunteer. >> that creates remarkable problems and it fuels isis because you were allowing a member of the minority to run a sooni country and it feeds into isis' power. >> an unbelievable amount of power on their hands. hillary clinton said in the debate saturday night we shouldn't try to just contain isis, we should try to defeat it. she said twice it cannot be an american fight. >> it is an american fight. it has to be an american fight and if people want to be serious and say we can't do anything about it, we don't have millions

of citizens in whom the terrorist can hide. it's hard to put them together. if you want to take attitude that's not an american fight but if we're serious about isis, it is an american fight. a serious candidate for president. including a republican candidate has to step up and say is it an american fight or not. >> let's talk about that. one of the things that confused me as well and i'm easily confused there's a present. i want to understand why. i'm curious what in the president's mind gives him that their a jv team and then friday

to say they're contained and then this weekend to have the white house to say isis doesn't have the capability to do this here when everybody from a right wing republican candidate, chris dickey reporting out of paris can tell you that's sheer insanity. >> you're saying we've underestimated. >> no, that's not what i'm saying. i'm saying why is the white house still underestimating their capability by saying they can't strike here. what's in tpresident's mind set. why is he underestimating the threat? >> i think what you have to decide what you're going to do or not is make isis your number one priority? that means isis has to stay longer because you're going to need an alliance. >> i'm asking you about the president? what is the president's

motivation and constantly underestimating the terror? i understand in 2012 he wanted to get re-elected. what about now? >> well, first of all, you're going to jump on me for this but isis has been territorially rolled back. so that's what i think he met when he said it was contained. secondly, i think he's mistakenly underestimated isis. so have i, so have most people. thirdly, if you're going to take on isis seriously, you're going to need to send in troops and do it with operations and military force and people are going to have to vote for him. that's tough. >> would that have happened six months ago? it might have happened now. >> i would never jump you, walter. >> you said i was going to jump you. >> tim, i'm curious what your reaction is. christopher said earlier this morning it was sheer insanity

for the united states to pretend isis could not strike us here. do you agree with that assessment or with the white house that isis doesn't have the capability to reach us here? >> i think it's harder to reach the u.s. for an organization like isis than it is at the mome moment. i think isis threatens all of us. isis struck the heart of my town on the mediterranean, a arab country. i don't think this is the west verses the west. i think it's isis against all of us. radical against all of civilization whether it's russians being shot down.

whether it's paris, i think that what we've seen is a lack of creativity when it comes to how you deal with an organization like that. i think that the initial reaction, of course, is understandable what the french are doing. a moment you carry out big air strikes. i think when you look at the urmt in syria, they have to be reversed to end a conflict in syria. his continued presence gives them a track.

>> willie, kim made the point which was what i was leading to before. you have a raid here, you can have an air strike there but unless you go to the heart of the problem which is isad in syria, this continues indefinitely. >> and we've been bombing for months and months and months and months so clearly there has to be another aspect to it. i think kim made a good point about who this is a war against when they took responsibility for the acts in paris friday. mark, how does this change things at the white house? whae the white house says they don't have the ability to hit the united states. >> i think the united states will rate for turkey or saudi

arabia to step up in a big way. this is an attack on a nato country. they have been looking for a role in the world. there must be a concertive effort to strike back at the people who did this. an attack on a nato country is a serious thing. this can't stand. >> marx, the question is do we have a question actually that's going to take this as a serious threat and act accordingly? the language of the white house not only this weekend but on friday and over the past few

years. to our gulf state allies, it's been confounding. >> the president looks at public opinion and people are tired of ground wars in dpar off places that seem to lead to no better security for america and he's also, i think, frustrated by the fact they find ground troops, what then? how do you deal with the complexities on the ground? i think that's going to change because the french are going to ask for a nato role in this. >> following friday's attacks in paris, the investigation has shifted to belgium where much of the plans has taken place. we will be joined by chief correspondent. we begin with you. we understand there's new developments overnight in belgium. >> that's right.

we're here in the suburb and there are on going operations here, police raids just this morning. we understand they're looking for the suspect in those attacks who manage to escape. there are people speculating this attack was planned here. there was heightened armed security at the border.

friday just after the attacks allowed to konlt and now we think he is somewhere here. >> and bill kneelly in paris across the boarder there. tell us about how things have changed for france. not just where you stand culturally and among the people but for the government, for the way it feels now about how to approach isis internationally. >> there is a nervous air in the city. there was a mid-silence followed by huge applause as if the french were saying this will not grind us down. you will not beat us. people are definitely nervous here not from the prime minister said on french radio this morning warning of more attacks saying more are being planned in syria and basically saying the french people have to be prepared for more and will have to live with this for some time.

we have the latest figure yousf. 104 other people being questioned and 31 guns seized as well as at least one rocket launcher. these were known islamist targets or supporters of isis. france striking back at home and also striking back abroad 12 war planes attacks the isis strong hold of iraq, syria and u.s. forces also involved. they struck among other things trucks carrying oil. the oil that is the lifeline or at least contributes to the war chest of isis. now, the only issue is were these raids just symbolic? was this a gut reaction and is that good enough because people are asking how actually whether those raids stop more attacks here in paris? and obviously, there will be more raids on homes here today.

>> bill neely, thank you very much. bill and crystal, thank you as well. still ahead on morning joe, donald trump joins us live. we'll hear from senators lindsey graham and john mccain. first congressman mike will give us his incite. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. friskies pull 'n play. with tender string treats cats can eat. that part was their idea. lucy always thought strings should be edible. chloe thought the same. and charlie, well, he's up for anything as long it's fun. new friskies pull 'n play with tender strings. the whole new way to treat 'n play. ♪

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isad is in power and isis is growing. are we getting anywhere in syria? >> i said yes. you said a program should be renewed. i'm asking if the strategy is working. what strategy? >> tell me what the strategy is. i'll tell you if it's working.

>> what do you think the beheadings are about? >> the revival of slavery, you think they make this shut up? it's all in the book. the only book they ever read. they read it all the time. they never stop. they're there for one reason and one reason only. to die for the cal fate and usher in a world without infidels. that's their strategy. it's been that way since the seventh century. do you really think that a few special forces teams are going to put a dent in that? >> what would you do? >> you're offering me a promotion? >> i'm offering you a hypothetical. >> 200,000 troops on the ground.

>> that's not going to happen. >> i better get back there. >> what else? what else would make a deference? >> hit reset. >> meaning what? >> meaning pound rocca into a parking lot. >> wow. >> that was a scene, opening scene of homeland for this season which is really, that was on a couple of months ago. i happened to be watching it the morning after paris and it's unbelievab unbelievable. they do have a strategy. they can identify their enemy. they can call us out by name. they know exactly what they're going to do and how they're going to do it and know they're going to die doing it. they have focus.

we have absolutely no focus. we have no strategy. we have candidates that won't mention our enemies name by their name. it's frightening. >> that was dramatize but just a little bichlt it was pretty close to the truth. we had a guest on that said this is -- what he meant is they seek a fantasy where they draw infidels in their territory and have a war and arm ge don. that is their goal and they're following old early texts from islam and that's the goal. >> joining the table we have white house correspondent. let's bring in the chairman of the house committee, republican congressman mike of texas. >> mr. chairman, thank you so much for being with us. what changes today? what changes in our approach on isis? >> well, i have to say that's a hollywood moment. we just heard that it actually

reflects reality better than most hollywood scenes do. i would say paris changes everything. i think finally, the world recognizes what we're dealing with. it's a wake up call. we have to goalvanize all the forces nato. if we don't deal with it in syria and iraq, we're going to continue to have homeland security issues whether it be russia's problems, europe's problems or the united states. in their words, we said this is the beginning of the storm. that's isis saying that. i don't know where the storms are going to go but i don't want it to come to the united states of america. >> andrea mitchell. >> congressman, you were told by the intelligence community there was no credible threat to the homeland after paris happened the other day. why do you trust that assessment

since they did not know this was about the happen, the french didn't know, why do we have confidence in the intelligence assessments going back to what walter said. they have found ways to communicate because of their ability to go dark and communicate without us picking up the signals. why do we think there is no threat to the homeland? >> that's an excellent point. one i've made. we didn't know about paris, right. there's nothing specific and incredible to the unite but you don't know what you don't know. the fact is we dbint know about paris and they were communicating in these dark platforms you and i talked about over the internet which is one of the biggest threats to national security. even if we have a court order we can't see what they're saying. it's hard to stop. we've arrested over 70 isis

followers in the last year. that's more than one per week. all 50 states we have had investigations and 900 open cases in the united states against isis. to me, that gets my attention. when they're talking in dark space, if you can't see what they're saying, it's hard to stop it. >> chris jans. >> when you talk to people in the intelligence community and look at the number of people they're trying to follow and say it's not physically possible to keep track of every single person the way they want to and conversely when you talk to people who look at recruitment, they'll say isis is online 24/7. if there's a young man anywhere in the states or somewhere in the world proned to be recruited they're there at the moment he goes online and looking for that.

are we ready? >> about as well as we can be. you can't stop it all. we stopped so much. the foreign fire threat is what happened in paris. these are individuals. there's 5,000 of them in europe that travelled to the region train very artfully in the skill of terrorism warfare, came back to perpetrate this action. we have thousands in europe. it's a visa waiver with countries in western passports. we also have hundreds of americans that have travelled to the reese agion and come back a well. we have these very young sophisticated cyber juhadist that are smart in terms of how they can radicalize people in the united states to attack military. just like what we saw in chattanoo chattanooga. this was a different deal in paris. this was the fortune fighters trained with suicide vest and

ak-47ers. well thought out and planned. it shows isis' capability is increasing exponentially. a bomb just killed 250 people. >> thank you very much. coming up, some of president obama's biggest critics have extended an olive branch in the wake of terrorist attacks. senator lindsey graham said i'm running for president but here today to tell the president that if you need my help you have it. ! we heard you got a job as a developer! its official, i work for ge!! what? wow... yeah! okay... guys, i'll be writing a new language for machines so planes, trains, even hospitals can work better. oh!

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37 past the hour. joining us is republican senator john mccain of arizona. >> senator mccain, you've been talking about the dangers of syria for several years, what do we do this morning? >> well, i think we have to have a strategy and that entails americans boots on the ground along with a coalition force. we've got to have a strategy and we have to understand isis is not undefeatable. we're the most powerful nation

on earth where our allies can defeat isis. if we don't we're going to see more attacks. this is a failed strategy or a nonexistent strategy. it's got to change or it's going to be a matter of time before there's an attack on the united states of america. >> lindsey, you were just saying last wednesday with us in new hampshire basically warning of what was coming if we didn't intervene in syria. >> well, joe, there's a real opportunity here. i think paris made things more real than ever. i would encourage the president really to rally the world and marry up with the french. the arabs to a country, to turkey, they see the threats of isil. they have large armies. let's use their armies in a smart way and integrate their forces with a regional army and get the french involved and come up with a ground component to supplement the air campaign on the ground and destroy the cal

fate and their headquarterers. they're not the jv team but not they're certainly not so feet tall. if we drop a few bombs on these guys and that's it, they'll be stronger than ever. >> what about russia and iran? >> they cannot play in this. russia wants to prop up. it's the guy that killed a quarter million of his own people. it's the reason we had the refug refugee problem. not because of isis. to somehow get in bed with putin and it's a huge mistake. we would be furthering russian and iranian influence in the region. russian and iranian certainly in syria and other countries in that part of the world and we should have nothing to do with them. we should provide our own strategy with our allies and y

na nato. we have common values and common goals with russia and iran is insane. >> senators, we were talking earlier about the fact that they go on to the dark net, some of the recruitment that there's been a real push by the fbi and we need some encryption breaking capabilities. the silicon valley companies won't do it. you were all involved with passing laws on nsa reauthorizization. what do we do now on whether or not we allow the nsa and intelligence agencies around the world to have more access to these communications? >> can i say having been involved in the issue heavily, it's time we have a key to be kept safe and only revealed by means of a court order. right now, with recruitment and training and equipment can go on and we cannot let that continue

in all do respect to our friends in silicon valley vpt. >> we're going to be spending half of what we normally spend we don't talk about the cuts of the cia and nsa. john mccain is going to lead on effort to set these drchs cuts aside so we can prepare our nation and go on the offense. there is no substitute for a ground component in this war. the region would supply the bulk of the forces and we'll have to be part of it. at the end of the day we can destroy isil and must destroy isil and the average american gets it. i want to fight them in our backyard so we don't fight them in our backyard. >> can i finally end, lindsey graham and i and the others will sit down with the president. we want to work with them.

also, he should call them david and general king, the architects. the smartest people that have succeeded militarily and get their advice on counsel on this because america is tell the strongest nation on earth and we can defeat them if we have the strategy and will. >> joe, on the republican side, there's people on our side saying shut down the refugees and we'll be safe. we need to vet anybody that comes in this country. there are many ways to get in this country. let's go to the symptom of the problem which is people being raped and murdered. have a safe haven and no fly zone. >> senator mccain, it's willie. as we've heard reports of french planes going on, what's the rapid response in taking out the planes? i think a lot of people had the same reaction. if we knew those sites were there, why were they still

standing after all these months of air power? >> it's reminiscing to the vietnam war. this incrementalism and targets that have to be approved at the highest levels of government. it's a classic kpmexample of wh happened in the vietnam war. all these should read the papers and of course, targets have not been hit and of course, you have to get the highest level of approval. of course they return to base without having dropped their weapons. i think it's wonderful but it's not going, more of the same is not going to stop this virus and disease which will lead to threatening the united states national security. >> you know, the age of half measures has to end. at the end of the day when you put 50 boots on the ground you're telling isil you're not serious as an american president to degrade and destroy them. the french president declared war on isil.

if all you do is drop bombs, they don't take that response seriously. >> senators lindsey graham and john mccain, thank you. up next, how are other major cities responding? >> the commissioner of the new york city police department joins us live next on morning joe. this is a very big problem for us with respect to fast and efficient transportation. it's kind of a losing proposition to keep going this way. we are trying to tackle the problem with several different modes. one of them is the brand new metro. we had a modest forecast: 110,000 passengers per day in the first line. we are already over 200,000. our collaboration with citi has been very important from the very beginning. citi was our biggest supporter and our only private bank. we are not only being efficient in the way we are moving people now,

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information for an athlete's medical care, or information to track their personal best. with microsoft cloud, we save millions of man hours, and that's time that we can invest in our athletes and changing the world. it's 47 past the hour. joining us now the commissioner of the new york city police department bill braton and from london, professor of security studies at kings college in london, peter serves as the director at the international center for the study of radicalization. good to have you both on board with us this morning. >> bill, good morning. could friday night happen in new york city? >> it could. it's something we mentioned 9/11 had been preparing for and protecting against. if i had been successful over 20

efforts directed against the city we will be watching this one very closely to see what can we learn from it. add a lot of new elements to it. >> like what? >> the idea that all of them were a part of the suicide. the attack responding to the act of the shooter scenario. we want to know the capabilities of those. a few in terms of the communications they use, what type of forms were they using, apps, we'll be sending a team over later this week to learn as much as we can about what was new about this attack? >> part of the elements about what happened in paris, it's been reported. i've been told from talking to people it involves encryption devices following the trail of potential terrorist. at one point depending on the sophistication of their inkripgs devices, the trail can go dark. have you encountered that?

>> we're encountering that all the time. we have a huge operation in new york city working closely with the joint terrorism task force and we encounter that frequently where we're mono toitoring and they're going on to sites we can't access. >> why can't you access them? >> basically, the technology has been purposely designed by manufactures so that even they claim they can't access their own devices after they built them. the director of the fbi has been talking about this increasing frequency and supporting debt conversation. we're seeing it every day where we are losing the ability to gather intelligence. and to stay on the offense, you play defense. offense is intelligence. and we are losin losing a lot o because of the issue. >> i had friends and family that

lived through 9/11 and they were alarmed by what they saw. they believe if it happened in paris, it can happen in new york city. why is new york 9/11 generally alarmed because they blow if it can happen in paris, it can happen in new york city. >> all we represent in terms of what happened in paris, if you think some of the attacks at the sports stadium, against the president of the country, at entertainment venues, at restaurant venues, all the things that the jihadists hate. here we have the entertainment capital of the world, the news capital of the world, we are all that they hate. we have poured enormous resources into this effort. i'm adding another 500 personnel to this direct counterterrorism effort. we're working hard to make sure

it does not happen here. >> what about europe? does london face as much of a threat as berlin and other capitals? >> i think what you've seen in europe over the past through years is an enormous mobilization of that movement. we've seen 5,000 western europeans going to syria, iraq, to join groups just like isis. i do think paris is on the front lines but almost every european capital is being affected. there is a high terrorist threat level in every european country. what's worse is that especially in small are european countries like belgium, the security agencies do not have the capacities to deal with the numbers of people they are supposed to watch right now. >> "france launched massive retaliatory air strikes against

the islamic strikes." would you consider it massive or effective? >> i wouldn't consider 20 air strikes to be a massive response. and it is not clear at all whether these air strikes would not have been carried out by the americans if the french hadn't carried them out. i think it's important we're not on focused on air strikes. there's two really useful things down that can be done by france, one is ground forces and the other is a settlement with turkey. if you really want to make a difference, you need to talk to turkey and make shower that they are starting to close down their border. >> mike. >> commissioner, could silicon

valley be of more help to you why dealing with these -- >> certainly. they need to work with us right now. in many respects they're working against us. >> you disagree with the white house who seemed to think the attacks on the united states want possible. >> we work every day based on the premise that they have that capability. what we just saw in paris, why do we think that would not happen here? >> commissioner bill bratton, thank you. >> the debate on how to care over tens and thousands of refugees and also keep america and europe safe.

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it's 8:00 on the east coast. welcome back to "morning joe." we have mike barnicle, chris jansing and former adviser to president mccain as 2008 presidential campaign, steve schmidt back with us. the hunt is on for members of the sleeper cell. it's reported that 23 are under arrest in france and kalashnikov rifles have been found. and the associate press is reporting that french officials have identified a suspected

master mind. he is belgian abdel -- this as authorities identify another attacker. and another of the shooters at the bataclan concert hall. meanwhile, french authorities are searching for 26-year-old possible accomplice in the dead attack. and and earlier reports that he he

had been arrested in belgium are claiming he escaped during the police operation. a lot of updates in the past few hours. still one man at large and many of the attackers dead. >> and we're going to be talking to jeb bush coming up in a few minutes. donald trump is going to be joining us. i found it interesting john mccain and lindsay graham reaching out to the president of the united states. the question is does the president of the united states believe this is a danger to america's homeland? right now it doesn't look like the white house does. we've had several people this morning including bill bratton just say flat out that the white house is dead wrong, isis can attack us here like they attacked in paris. >> chris jansing, are we

overstating the attitude out of the white house? and what about president obama saying that isis is contained? >> they take it serious that he said that. he was talking about the territory and iraq and syria and the fact of the matter is we've got i don't know back about a quarter of the territory this isis has it and. having said that, it doesn't call into account where isis is elsewhere in the world. there are cells in places like bangladesh and yemen and sinai and libya. this is an expanding caliphate, not just in terms where they want to have land to be able to train but where their influence is and that's the rool concern for. >>. >> steve schmidt, so the president is talking about containing a land mass while a new front has opened up in paris. he has called them the j.v. team, he does have a containment policy, hoping he can operate on the margins and they'll just go

away. this weekend the white house did preposterously say that it was unlikely that isis could attack us here like they attacked in paris. nobody believes that. >> the fbi director said there are active isis investigations in all 50 states. within the course of the last week we have seen isis take down a russian jetliner, orchestrate attacks in beirut and of course this horror in paris. and the threat is not over. we will see more attacks in europe, more attacks throughout the world and ultimately attacks here -- that there will have to be regular army forces, regular military forces, not just special forces, employed to dough feat this. >> the president talked about them being a jv team before using a similar sports analogy. it seems we have a command are

in chief who wants to run out at the clock. he did not like wars he inherited from george w. bush, he wanted to say during 2012 that al qaeda was battered, beaten and on the run, and he's been wanting to say for some time that islamic terrorism is no longer a threat to the united states. at what point does he give up this ideological line and face the reality that paris faces week in and that new york, washington, the rest of the world faces today. >> clearly the president is risk averse to putting troops on the ground in the united states. they are taking this very seriously. >> why does the white house put ben rhodes out to say he doesn't

think it can happen here. the point is the president is vending a horrific message not on to our friends in france, london and allies across the world that be looking for the united states here guidance saying they can't hit us here. >> i don't know why ben rhodes said what he said. you know at this table, we all have people that we speak to, you know that they know that this risk is present every single day. we just had commissioner bill bratton of the new york police department. as he told you and implied it here to a certain, tent they deal with multiple threats here in new york city. that's just new york city. so the administration is not -- they take this extremely seriously. >> well, it doesn't sound like it in their statements and it's confounding. why are they saying these things they know are not true?

>> the attacks are also sparking more debate on u.s. policy when it comes to resettling syrian mieg grants. -- migrants. >> does the president now have any pause about bringing syrian refugees into the united states? >> no, chuck, we have very extensive screening procedures for all syrian refugee who is would come to the united states. there's a very includive vetting process. so we can make sure that we're carefully screening anybody who comes to the united states. >> he should suspend it that this and why people look ben rhodes pin ten to say that is

beyond me. it's. >> i don't think the threat is as big to the united states when you talk about immigrants coming to the united states. we're a nation of immigrants. >> it who we are. >> it's who we are, what we do, it's why rethrive. when you look at paris, france, had you look at countries that do not have our heritage and you look at their open border policies and you look at what even merkel has done in germany, you sit there and you wonder if they are understanding that they are committing suicide over time but having these policies that are opening up europe to general

and now you have the chancellor's plan to let in as many as 800,000 syrian refugees, economic migrants, they're not all refugees from the war. this will most surely topple her as the chancellor of germany politically but this will have enormous emma guy i respect, he's on our show all the time, i saw him on friday night and he said one of the great tragedies is that this will now encourage xenophobia across europe and has to national i don't understand

why this is right wing or left wing. it is not xenophobic if you are a french leader to want to preserve your civilization, preserve your culture, preserve your constituents' safety. and when they can't handle the mus almost population they have there now, why do we even talk about casting aspirgss against frn politicians and they said we need to stop and clean the situation up that we have. >> the characterization of the statement that says we stand for pluralism, for liberty, for equality for women, that be when you have an unasem latable population in the country, who doesn't share those value, and

fact is and. >> these are important esh use and it not xenophobia to be concerned about it. >> but there is another side of this, which are these millions of people, tens of thousands of families with nowhere to go. mitt romney and mook barnicle opinioned a an on ed. sfwlr he writes "the west are going to stop the insanity of rescuing hundreds of thousands of people without no. >> again be the phrase pr if you're going to wage war, you better have a plan to went that war. one of the things that mitt romney elude to in that

statement is the right by paris, there were elections coming up in two or three way. >> they look to provoke anti-myselves that part kwagss that going on hoar. i agree with both of you, obviously defend the country. before prove. case of muslims is something different and that's going on today. >> the fact is the suburbs have been mayor paired temperature they are not asem lating into that society. they are still looked upon as muslims. france, the culture does not assimilate foreigners the way the united states does. if you were a muslim in america,

you know what you are? you're an american. that's not the case in france. and i'm not judges france. france is france. i remember dr. brzezinski calling a pulitzer prize winner a fool because they want what we have. the pakistanis want what the pakistanis want. we have got to stop projecting or manhattan and georgetown and you name it cultural elite views on what other countries need to be. france cannot azim laet these people. and the germans can't assimilate these people. >> this is where obama is coming from. >> no, he doesn't. he will call out ne politician against europe that says let's close or borders to new immigrants. >> and if you talk to people who deal with the refugee crisis

aboard, what they'll tell you is do we have to throw out the baby with the bath water? meaning there still are many people, not just women and children but they would argue we hear these statistics about how many single men who pose a threat that are coming out, they argue many of them are heads of family to try to get jobs, who's bring over the where as one of this many put it to me, do we give up our values about helping people whose very lives are threatened? does that mean that the other guys win, that in this case isis wins? it's a conversation we had a lot after 9/11, we're not going to let them win. is this a sign that we're willing, this is the question that i'm asked by people who deal with refugees, that we're going to let them win by allowing them to diminish our values. >> my values are not diminished

by me taking a cold hearted view of how i stop people in my country from being gunned down on a friday night when they are eating dinner with their family or going to a concert or when they're going across the country. we were tacking about how you can't keep up with everything on twitter. when you have the fact that we isn't approached syria the way we have over the last three years, you do not handle this in the right way when you have people coming over train after train after train and busting through borders. there is no sane, rational approach right now and they're going to have to take it more slowly and tho who said himself

first job is to protect the people of france. by first, how do i aat that. >> just to be clear, though, we're tacking a taney jeff jis and vetting them and we can tack this question -- >> i need to be clear here, it's why i said the united states is in a different position than europe. we shouldn't sit back and judge what france and other european countries do. we are in a different position. because we have an ocean separating us, we can have a more practical, thoughtful, reasoned approach to it. >> i want to propose the strategy question to a presidential candidate and

create a strategy to defeat it, not to contain it, which means a no-fly zone in syria, rejoan enjoan gauging with the sunni trimaker, to create saf t. from this is the war of our times. weep cannot do this by leading from behind. this requires american leadership. it doesn't require us to be the world's plan. but could we horses off sore ia armeds offer there and fight

this battle alongside our allies. >> absolutely we are. and we need to have a strategy where we fight to win and then we pull out. this is how america is at its best is to lead forces from around the world to do this. this is the time it act. if we don't, every day that isis exists in the form of a caliphate, it gains strength and it will continue to promote terrorism in countries and europe as well as in the region and in theins as well. this is a threat to our national security interests. we cannot lead from behind anymore. governor, this is before i knew you were going to be on, we were talking about how your father made alineses with syria, brought together extraordinary international coalition. this morning there's been talk about whether we bring russia and iran in on a coalition against isis.

john mccain said no. walter isaacson suggested perhaps that's the only way forward. what would a bush administration do looking at vladimir putin and iran in regard to isis. >> iran is the largest supporter of radical terrorism. >> what about russia? >> russia possibly, but they would have to abandon their support of assad temperature they don't. we're empowering them to create even more enstability in region. >> so would you encourage nato countries that would not want to be involved in this because

they're more concerned about what is happen in nk would you enconnell them to be part of a nato alliance, if if that alliance aligned with vladimir putin? >> i do think article 5 ought to be considered. even without that, though, the united states needs to show to endown courage them to be involved in an effort it too. if they're going to help with syria, could it involve an easing of sanctions over ukraine? >> i can't speak speck lat on that.

doesn't look it me putin is making any changes in his policy. we can did. if. >> military action was defined under the if. >> the pal dock tren exists here. you do it with a stated objective of to the al, if governor, one of the keys to

defeating isis is intelligence gathering. and intelligence gathering involves an inherent conflict between privacy, individual privacy rights and surveillance. what would you do if you were president of the united states, if anything to which was part of the patriot act. it expires in the next few months. at this think that was a useful tool to keep us safe and protect civil liberties. this is a time to reevaluate our terrorists. we have home grown terrorists that can easel be poufd pi-fo pi-for-rm there as a lot riding

on this. so i think we can have the proper balance of protecting privacy right and making sure that we use all of the tools of intelligence to keep us safe. >> governor jeb bush, thank you very much for being with us. >> still ahead on "morning joe" the testimony it was something like bomb the blanc out of them. the presidential contender joins us nks to react to the terrorist attacks and tell us what it is s- all backed by an industry leading broadband network and people committed to helping you grow your business. you get a company that's more than just the sum of it's parts.

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republican presidential candidate donald trump. if were president right now, what would be the first, second and third thing you would do in the strategy to defeat isis? >> if i were president, we probably wouldn't be in the problems we are right now. we have an attack and then all of a sudden we bomb the sites. we should have bombed the sites a long time ago, training areas largely. why is it that we take them out now after this there's this vicious and violent attack. the other problem, we have a president that doesn't and won't use the term radical islam ek terrorism. hillary clinton didn't want to use the term the other day in the debate, which was a ridiculous and terrible debate, a joke. all three of them refused to use the term radical islam being terrorism. they just can't say it. >> why is it important, donald?

>> because if you condition define the problem, you're never going to solve the problem, joe. they refuse to say what the problem is. you'd almost think they have the terrorists coming out from sweden. the problem is obvious. >> so what do you do as far as troops go? >> here's what i would do. i've been saying this for a long time. i would have -- if you remember when i said attack the oil bus that's their primary source of wealth. people smiled and they laughed and thought it was a joke and they thought it was funny. now as of two days ago, they're attacking the oil. i would absolutely obliterate their source of wealth and i would also attack the banking system because they're getting tremendous amounts fund through a very complex network of bank willing. >> first of all, on the oil, i

agree with you completely. >> and have i been saying that for a long time in. >> i've been saying that for a long time. >> there's one difference. i also said i'd keep the oil. we never keep anything. >> so i want to -- mike barnicle, i'm going to let you follow up. he's starting to talk about what you've been talking about and we've been reading about this week and that some of our close allies in the gulf states have people that have been funneling money to islamic extremists over the past 20 years and they've turned a blind to it and we've turned a blind eye to them. we've talked about going to war militarily and a cyber war but there's a banking -- >> what would you do in terms of

locating, freezing the assets of certainly some individual in the middle east who have a long track record of raising and sending money to terror groups? >> you know the countries and i know the countries, too. the countries are obvious and they're very rich and they're sending money to the terrorists, to isis. tremendous amounts of money. it can be tracked and fairly easily tracked if we have intelligence people leading our country but we don't. some of them claim to be our friend but they're not our friend. they're using us and using everybody else. they're rippings left and right. they're actually more political than anybody else. they're taking care of the terrorists, they're taking care of the united states who gives them protection. tremendous money is pouring into isis and other terrorist groups through very wealthy countries that we think are our friend and

they're not our friend. >> steve schmidt. >> mr. trump, good morning. when we talk about obliterating isis, destroying isis, are you prepared to tell the american people we will deploy large number of regular armty forces back to the middle east to -- >> no, i'm not. of all of the folks that are out there fighting, the kurds are out there fighting. and thank you for saying nice things to me, you were there a long time -- steve was there long before a lot of other people i will tell you. >> let's get back to -- >> he won't let me give you a compliment, steve. >> let's let the compliment sink in.

okay. now let me follow up on the question. >> go ahead. >> so will you at least be willing to seasoned 10,000 u.s. troops over there? >> yes, i would. but i'd iengage other countries. you look at some of those countries who have no skin in the game and those are the ones we're protecting. i would tell them it's time for to you get out and fight and time for you to put up your troops or put your so-called boots on the ground or put your people on the ground because we're not going to continue to do this but in the meantime we can do tremendous damage. as an example, and i said it before, why didn't we hit these sites six months ago and a year ago? we knew they were there. we knew they were training areas. we have to make a deal with turkey and stop these people from coming in through the turkish border.

>> chris jansing has a question. >> we had bill bratton on earlier. we know what you've said about immigration and about sealing the u.s. borders. but beyond that is there something that you would do here in the homeland that you think is not being done now to protect united states citizens? >> well, you're going to have to watch and study the mosques because a lot of talk is going on at the mosques. and from what i heard in the old days meaning a while ago, we had great surveillance going on in and around mosques and new york city and i understand our mayor totally cut that out. he totally cut it out. i don't know if you've brought that up and i'm not sure it a fact but i heard that under the ol' regime, we had tremendous surveillance going on in and around the mosques of new york city. and that's been totally cut out. >> chris, you did a lot of reporting this weekend. i think i picked up this weekend

that the french said they will shut down mosques. >> that have radical leadership. they -- >> they will go in and shut down mosques? >> there's talk about that in many places. >> donald trump, the french are talking about that. is this something you would consider doing as president? >> well, i would hate it do it but it's something that you're going to have to strongly consider because sm of the ideas and some the hatred, the absolute hatred is coming from these areas opini. you know, new york city as an example. we had a group of people from what i understand that really knew what they were doing, that were really studying the situation and they're not doing that anymore under the new mayor. and i think that's a mistake. it's something that many people are considering and many people are going to do.

>> but are you concerned at all about the backlash that can create? and the hatred that can breed? >> there as already hatred. it's embedded. it is beyond belief. the hatred greater than anybody understand. and it already there. it not like, what, do you think they think we're great people? it's already there. it's a very, very sad situation. and i know sem people, will they're being so badly -- >> would agree, donald, that this is just a small percentage of these radical muslims are a small percentage of the entire muslim population. >> yes, but it's a tremendous amount of horror and damage and

vitriol. you look at what's happening. this is something that has to be stopped and we have to be very strong, we have to be vej laigi and we have to be intelligence. they're using the internet, joe, better than we are. >> and that was the belgian prime minister that was talking about shutting down specific mosques. obviously we have the first amendment in the united states of america, that ain't going to happen here. that said, though, we were post 9/11 far more aggressive in trying to seek out the radical clerics to radicalize certain members of mosques in the united states. >> i think part of the problem and we look at the democratic debate and the failure of some of these candidates in the name of political correctness to name

name and say this is what it is, radical islamic terrorism, it's important in yale university, the university of missouri, talk of these micrograegss and all of a abject silliness taking place in context, the russian airliner blown out of the air, the ram paids in -- but not naming clearly the enemy that civilization faces. >> by the way, muslims will call out radical muslims. it's confounding. the political correctness is confounding. >> up next how the markets are reacting in business before the bell straight ahead.

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let's go to sarah eisen live at the new york stock exchange. how are the european stocks reacting this morning? >> resilience is the word to describe the market action this morning. even french stocks which were pretty hard hit initially have bounced back and refused to panic. when you look at the market reactions, it's never easy to make the link between human tragedy and what it means to the

markets but history tells us that even after a human reaction, they recover quickly. looking back to september 11, 2011 where the markets were hit as much as 12% but they rebounded completely. as we look at the economic impact and you look at stocks like airlines, tourism stocks like hotels, which are getting the hardest hit but otherwise the markets are resilient. >> we'll be right back. d to hel, d to hel, we've created a new company... one totally focused on what's next for your business. the true partnership where people,technology and ideas push everyone forward. accelerating innovation. accelerating transformation.

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senator james langford of oklahoma. we just learned that isis released two videos celebrating the attacks. >> senator, are we at war with isis? >> they're at war with us. we're back to pre 9/11 where osama bin laden declared war on us and we were very flippant with it, he's a smalls or over there. >> there are investigations in all 50 states right now from the fbi. we saw in garland, texas just in may of this year where isis inspired individuals to leave all the way to arizona, hold an attack there. because we were knowledgeable about it, we confronted them and they got out of the car.

in boston in june, we had individuals who go were going out to attack police officers that were isis inspired. they're practicing and trying to find individual here that will help them engage. >> jon meacham, what president bush did in 1991, he built a remarkable coalition. >> he built a coalition but he was also willing to go it alone, if he had to. when he said this will not stand, this aggression against kuwait, he had just told his diary on marine i as he came to the white house that if he didn't do something to get saddam back across the border -- >> compare '41 with barack

obama. this is president capable of building that type of coalition? >> i know obama admires h.w. bush, gave him the presidential meddle of freedom and want to see an energetic attempt to carry out what is unquestionably a war. of course they can project force here. that's what terror is. it's asymmetrical. what obama has to do, i think, is pull off what h.w. bush did, build a coalition but be willing, if necessary, to go it alo alone. >> what's your level of concern with the encryption devices now coming out in this country and around the world where at a certain point intelligence operatives and agencies are forced to go dark pause this

can't crack those codes? >> they're already dark in srn ar dr certain areas and they know it. when they go to certain places in the iphone and they can go dark. the encryption -- they can use it. >> remedies? >> the remedies have to be able to work with the industry. this is one of those areas where the government and the industry have to sit down together and say no within in industry -- apple does not want to say they're the chosen device of terrorists. they don't want to say that. but they also don't want to say there's wide open platforms that they can get into.

we can solve this. >> how do we bring those together, if you want to get to a conclusion, especially in the post-snowden area. >> more and more people have to acknowledge that people mean to threaten us. snowden tried to raise the issue and as he fled to china and russia to say americans are trying to pursue, they're not. there are strict constitutional boundaries in the government, that if they violate that that should be put back in place but the reality is there are people that are looking to hurt americans. garland, texas, it's a great example of we were aware of them plotting and planning. when individual drove and when they got to their destination,

and got out of their cars, they were immediately met by law enforcement. >> oklahoma. >> we have two top-ten teams. either one of them has a great shot. >> that will be, sighting, distraction from all this tragic news. we'll be right back in a moment. good. very good. you see something moving off the shelves and your first thought is to investigate the company. you are type e*. yes, investment opportunities can be anywhere... or not. but you know the difference. e*trade's bar code scanner. shorten the distance between intuition and action. e*trade opportunity is everywhere. ok, wehere's dad. mom. the twins. aunt alice... you didn't tell me aunt alice was coming. of course. don't forget grandpa. can the test drive be over now? maybe just head back to the dealership? don't you want to meet my family?

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welcome back. it's time to talk about what we learned today.

john meacham? >> we need clear leadership from the bully pulpit. >> steve smith. >> the threat is real and there are more attacks yet to come. >> meek barnicle if. >> that when anybody in theins and france says we're at war, you better figure out how to win that war. >> chris jansing in. >> the president is building, we need to get clear what to do. >> and the president will have a news conference out of the g-20. >> not on the belgian db. >> the french interior minister called for looking at radical mosques. >> and possibly shutting them done. >> possibly. >> msnbc lives pick up our coverage after a short break. >> i'm bill karns.

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good morning. right now on msnbc, we have breaking news. isis has released two videos celebrating in the paris attacks and threatening attacks on washington, dc. we will pring you more information as it comes in. also today, the associated press is reporting that french officials identified the suspected master mind of friday's attacks