their bank americard cash rewards credit card to sweeten the holiday season. that's the spirit of rewarding connections. apply online or at a bank of america near you. terrorists will not destroy the republic because it is the republic that will destroy it. long live france, long live the republic. >> powerful moment yesterday. french president francois hollan hollande's speech to parliament followed by the french national anthem. this morning several new developments in the wake of the attacks. the search fors ramping up.

france launches a new round of air attacks and right now secretary of state john kerry is in france to discuss the next moves. >> one thing we do know. there will be no more boots on the ground. president obama made that very clear in a very strange news conference yesterday at the g20 in turkey. also breaking news on the crash of the russian passenger jest. officials now saying it was definitely a terrorist attack. good morning. it is tuesday, november 17th, welcome to "morning joe." with us we have msnbc mike barnacle, managing editor of bloomberg and associate editor of the washington post, eugene robinson as well. good to have you all on board. >> we have an awful lot to get through today. we need to talk obviously about

the press conference yesterday, which was inexpolice car kabl, almost as inexplicable as the president's response. >> refugees. in a moment we're going to get to the president's news conference. it's drawn reaction from all over the i'd logical map. first the latest developments in the paris attack. new raids in paris overnight, more than 100 of them. secretary of state john kerry met with french president francois hollande hours after he claimed that friday's act of war was planned in syria, organized in belgium and carried out in paris by at least four french citizens. france identified the linchpin in the attacks. his name is abdelhamid abood who once posted about killing infidels and fought for isis in syria. a senior intelligent officer

tells msnbc that abood was in charge of keeping track of the attackers, manufacturing the suicide vest and choosing the target. the vests were all manufactured in the same style by the same person. four of the dead assailants are frenchman and one was born in syria and fingerprinted in greece last month with a passport near his body. they told france about one of the attackers twice. attacker omar traveled in 2013 and may have traveled to syria. meanwhile one man linked to the attacks is still on the run, salah abda slam. his brother mohammed spoke out yesterday after belgium police

cleared him of any involvement saying his family learned of the attacks on tv and is still in shock. police believe he rented a car used by the attackers found outside the bataclan concert hall, ending in this police read seen here in this exclusive video. plus, there is breaking news on the crash of the russian passenger jet in egypt. it's what we feared. officials now say in moscow that was definitely is terrorist attack after finding traces of explosive in the plane debris. a bomb equivalent to more than 2 pounds of tnt exploded on board the aircraft. let's go to nbc news chris jansing in paris starting off. >> reporter: this is significant obviously, not just overall but to the folks here.

this is the first time that we have heard from russian authorities, including their intelligence service that this definitely was a terrorist attack. you mentioned the size of the bomb, a kilogram, 2.2 pounds of tnt. in addition to that it was apparently a homemade explosive device that brought down that plane on october 31st that killed 224 people over the sinai peninsula. russia offered a $50 million reward. and in the meantime they're also welcoming here, along with news that could help them hone in on who might be behind the terrorist attacks, the offer from vladimir put than he is willing to intensify the air campaign and that he and president obama now looking to come here to france to meet with president hollande next week. >> all right, chris thank you very much. president obama arrived in the philippines yesterday for an

asia pacific summit after addressing the g20. during his news conference the president said the u.s. will intensify the strategy it has already put forward but that sending in u.s. ground troops to fight isis would be a mistaken. >> in the and a half math of paris as i listen to those who suggest something else needs to be done, typically the things they suggest need to be done are things we are already doing. the one exception is that there have been a few who suggested that we should put large numbers of u.s. troops on the ground. and it is not just my view but the view of my closest military and civilian advisers that that would be a mistake. let's assume that we were to send 50,000 troops into syria. what happens when there's a

terrorist attack generated from yemen. do we then send more troops into there, or libya perhaps in or if there's an terrorist network that's operating anywhere else in north africa or in southeast asia. folks want to pop off and have opinions about what they think they would do, present a specific plan. but what i'm not interested in doing is posing or pursuing some notion of american leadership or america winning or whatever other slogans they come up with that has no relationship to what is actually going to work to protect the american people. and to protect people in the region who are getting killed and to protect our allies and

people like france. i'm too busy for that. >> here's how the president responded when she was asked if he underestimated isis to this point. >> we haven't under estimated our abilities. this is precisely why we're in iraq as we speak and why we're operating in syria as we speak. and it's precisely why we have mobilized 65 country to go after isil and why i hosted, at the united nations, an interdiscussion of counterterrorism strategies and cushing the flow of foreign fighters and why we have been putting pressure on those countries who have not been as robust as they need to in tracking the flow of foreign fighters in and out of syria and iraq. >> but, a look back at an interview the president did with the new yorker in january of 2014 tells a different story.

in the same interview in which he used the now emphasis jv analogy, he went on to say i think there is a distinction between the capacity and reach of ben laden and a network planning major terrorist threats against the homeland versus jihadists who are engaged in local power struggles and disputes, often sectarian. >> well the reaction to the president's remarks was pretty much the same across the spectrum. roger cohen of the "the new york times" wrote, where was the anger in that president obama press conference. i'm in paris. his words fell shamefully short of sentiment here. >> washington post editorial board wrote that a petulant president sounded as he did before. the president would be wise to set aid side his defensiveness and reconsider them.

"the wall street journal" writes if mr. 0 bam a ma fought the islamic state with half of the victor with which he delivers lectures, he's found more would welcome the refugees. there was annoyance in the president's voice. and eugene robinson writes, obama's tone was all wrong. at times he was patronizing, at other times he seemed annoyed and almost offensive. it was shocking. and the reaction from the people i spoke with across the i'd logical divide and people on the front line of the battle find it shocking that what the french declare as an act of war the president calls a setback. and what dianne feinstein says keeps her up at night, the president says -- >> actually let's put that up.

>> the president says i'm too busy for that. he says people with pop off if they want to. he was peevish, he was pet chew lent, not my words, the "washington post" words. he was clearly irritated through the entire press conference and i think most frightening is the fact that he seems disconnected from reality. the reality on the ground in paris, the reality on the ground in syria, the reality on the ground -- he is the opposite of a neocon that is more wedded to his ideology than his ideas on the ground and he's taking the world along for a ride. >> the news, part of what question you're saying, i'd like to play that was it really expressed how this sort of crosses all i'd logical divides on many levels. take a look.

>> i've never been more concerned. i read the intelligence faithfully. isil is not contained. isil is expanding. they've just put out a video saying it is their intent to attack this country. and i think we have to be prepared. there's only one way we're going to diminish them and that is by taking them out. because they are growing. they are in more than a dozen countries now. they're sophisticated. they have apps to communicate on that cannot be pierced, even with a court order. so they have a kind of secret way of being able to conduct operations and operational planning. so we should take this very, very seriously. >> and i tell you, a lot of people in new york city, a lot of people very, very concerned at the president's passive response to paris.

>> we had commission bill bratton seated right there and we gave him the comments from the white house that isil doesn't have the capacity to reach the united states and the look on his face said it all. excuse me, this is very real, of course this could happen here, of course we need to be aggressive and do more than what we're doing now. it's been a hall marc of president obama's campaign to be cool, be no drama and show no emotion. but this are moments when people want to see a little emotion. there are moments when people want to hear him say i recognize this is a problem, here's what i'm going to do and not get mierd in political fights. he seemed more emotional and annoyed about that than the problem in front of him. >> i heard that that the only time he ever showed passion was when he was attacking republicans, not when he was talking about isis. >> does thie lack of emotion an passion match a lack of strategy. the u.s. government is coordinating with france.

we're sharing intelligence. he's taking new measures but is it enough? >> mike barnacle in. >> i've been told by several people that the president of the united states has been told repeatedly over the last couple of months that the strategy that's being employed right now is not as effective as the president wants it to be or thinks it is. this could have played a part in his reaction yesterday. now it is very clear that the strategy is not effective. you cannot defeat daesh or isis with a bombing campaign. cannot be done. >> even military men and women that we speak to say the bombing campaign is a joke. it's for show. what's ironic about what he said yesterday was, he said i'm not going to do anything. i'm too busy to pose. his entire bombing campaign, he's posing through a bombing campaign. >> more than half of the planes that take off in our bombing

campaign come back with the ordinates still -- >> without dropping the bomb. mark halprin, it's baffling what happened yesterday and the french are clearly disturbed by it. what is your take on the president's press conference and where the united states policy is and where it's going? >> the country and the world only have one president of the united states at a time and that posture that he had yesterday is not going to satisfy large numbers of people on the planet and the country, not just republicans but a lot of democrats. the president is a rational guy and very frustrated by the options that he has and the criticism he gets. but there comes a time when the intellect and the black and white, the gray as opposed to the plaque and white has to be put aside to say the world needs american leadership. and again the performance

yesterday baffling i think is about the nicest thing you can say about it from the point of view of a lot of people who expected a much different approach. >> the usual suspects, the republicans were attacking but also you have the french deeply concerned, roger cohen saying i was shameful were the washington post editorial board calling the president quote petulant. that's the editorial board. and yesterday it seems one more example of colossal failure from a democratic president and some looms on the far right on immigrants. you had michael garson, a republican attacking republicans on the washington post editorial page talking about how their reaction is all wrong as well. >> well, you could say the u.s. reaction in general has been muddled to say the least. you quoted from my column

earlier in which i clearly said the president's tone was all wrong. he sounded defensive, he sounded annoyed at the whole thing. and one understands his annoyance. but he should unt han't have pr that. the substance of what he said is something we should focus on. what is the alternative policy? what is the realistic alternative policy that is going to have more of an impact on isis? and i think he confronts the central question, which is are you going to send u.s. ground troops and how many are we going to send? i have been told by people who really know and who follow this carefully, people in the vie john that you're talking 30,000 to 40,000 minimum ground troops if you're going to quote take out isis. if you're going to destroy isis

and get rid of this threat, let alone what you're going to leave behind. you're going to need that force. where are you going to get it from? >> so let me go to your -- >> that is a good question. >> it is a good question. let me go to your own editorial board. the washington post editorial board. and the post says what would make a difference and they go through a lot of different things, num ruse experts proposed that the attempting to take ramadi, for more than a year experts have been urging mr. obama to begin to let direct delivery of arms to kurdish iraq. they go one after another after another example, the with the washington post editorial board. and yet as they say, mr. obama's false choice. he gives us a false choice, people pop off and they want us

to send 200,000 troops to war. it's always a false choice >> look, i'm not a member of the editorial board. they're my dear friends and really smart people pu by i actually disagree on this point. i don't think that's a false choice. i really continue think it's a false choice. much of what has been proposed as ancillary measures that can be taken are incremental and in my view not likely to fundamentally change the situation. i could be wrong but that's the way i see it and that's the way people i talk to see it. there is a fundamental choice that has to be made and that is ground troops. >> let's go to chris jansing who is still with us on the ground in paris with reaction there. jump in. >> reporter: i have to say one of the most interesting things as i took the overnight flight is i talked to a couple of parisians who have spent a a lot

of time in new york. both of them had seen the news conference. one of them remarked to them that your president seemed more unhappy with you in the media than he did with what happened in paris. having said that, there -- and maybe these two are related. they were extremely interested in my views of what was going on in the presidential election. they're already looking ahead to who might be the next partner to france. and in addition to that, they both commented extensively about the warmth they felt coming from the people of the u.s. and particularly the people of new york who might feel a kinship and how that contrasted what they heard from the president in turkey yesterday. >> that is fascinating. it is strange, mark halprin, that the president seemed more offended by ron allen and ted

cruz, the media and republicans than he did with what happened on friday night. that's the only time he, as willie said and many others observed -- >> i think it was okay to be offended by the public instead -- >> that he showed any emotion, attacking the reporters. >> most of what's being offered up is what he's already doing or things he doesn't think are the right posture. a lot of american troops on the ground or a lot of coalition troops on the ground, it's not clear where they come from. he's been through the options. but to go back to the posture he had, he was not being a big opt mistake president saying the world can count on my leadership to fix this. and that was the big moment. and for many people in france and elsewhere he did not pass the moment. >> that's a key unanswerable question, the one mark raised, a

coalition of troops on the ground. where are they going to come from? are they going to come from saudi arrhea, iraq or turkey? i don't think he can put the coalition together. >> i think george w.h. bush was able to put a coalition together. this is a president who, as a person and historian, so don't shoot me, i'm only the piano player. this is a guy that doesn't work well with others. he is emotionally disconnected. he doesn't work well with people on capitol hill, democrats, you know. democrat senators were calling us off the record talking about how he worked by himself. we won't say any of their names, but democrats complained as bitterly as republicans did and we've heard the same thing from diplomats and ambassadors across the globe, he goes and gives a speech and he thinks that's all

he has to do. >> the president does not want to go it alone. and i don't think that's where the national sentiment is. >> we shouldn't go it alone. >> how are we going to get everyone on board here. that's why we can't be -- i'm just saying -- >> you know the ambassadors and leaders from the foreign countries that we know, i can't say their names on television right now. you know what they tell you all the tile. it is this. we are not going to stick our necks out because we don't trust the president to be there for us. and when you live in paris and you endured what yaw endured on friday night and then you see the president of the united states delivering that press conference yesterday, that confirms what we have heard from foreign leaders for six years now. and it's a problem. and it's all right to admit it. >> okay. we've heard you say that. i'm now going to go to break.

there is some popping off that' happening. >> sure there is. >> we're going to get to that next on morning joe because we couldn't get to it now. we're following the latest development in the international manhunt for the paris terrorist suspects. also ahead, republican presidential candidate mike huckabee who has been hammering the administration over his refugee policy. republican congressman peter king, iraq combat veteran, setting moll tan of massachusetts. plus an american hero. we're proud to be joined by the man awarded the medical of honor. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. raise? (patrick 2) how about 20? (patrick 1) how about done? (patrick 2) that's the kind of control i like... ...and that's what they give me at national car rental.

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at 27 past the hour, a growing number of governors from across the country are voicing concern about resettling syrian refugees in the u.s. right now at least 26 governors say they're opposed to the idea of syrian refugees entering their state or told the federal

government not in my state. during a news conference yesterday, texas governor greg abbott said she would not roll the dice and take the risk on allowing a few refugees in. and the south carolina governor wrote a letter saying i have concerns with the vetting process of refugees from conflict zones. new jersey governor chris christie had has done an aboutface on accepting syrian refugees. as late as september he said he would sit down with our allies and figure out a way to help. but here's what he said yesterday during a radio interview. >> what if they were or fans under the age of 5. >> we could come up with 18 different scenarios. but the fact is we need appropriate vetting and i don't think or fans under 5 should be admit into the united states at this point. >> okay. that will be popping off. and that would be popping off.

there's no legal authority to it. so they're just using this. and it's what, 10,000 syrian families, women and children. it's just not who we are. and they're all republican governors. some from swing states, which is interesting. but -- >> are they all republican governors? >> i think they are. >> one democrat in new hampshire. >> there is one democrat. there you go. >> she's running for senate. >> great. >> it's not that it's a coincidence that he's running. >> do we even need to talk about this? >> we can if you want to. >> you went on and on about the president. >> the president of the united states has the ability to help us win a war against isis. these governors have no legal authority. >> are tapping into hatred. >> they have no legal authority to stop refugees from coming into the states. >> which is why they should shut up. >> you're trying to put that at the same level of of the

president of the united states -- >> you're being incredibly stupid and hateful and destructive to the process unless you think governors are irrelevant and congressmen who went on tv all day yesterday saying no syrians in my district. it's gis gusting and reprehensible. >> i agree. let me say again, these governors have no authority. >> and senators and congressmen. >> can i just -- can i say it? >> sure. >> one time? without being interrupted? >> yes >> these governors have no authority to do this period. end of sentence. >> resettlement is a federal matter. and also when refugees come in there's no group of people who are screened more strictly in terms of refugees. >> oh my gosh.

>> and they don't come in overnight. there's a vetting process that takes place. >> that is the insanity of it as well. you look at what's happening in europe and they're come in trains, right? they're just flooding across the borders and the europeans are overwhelmed. we have the toughest process in the -- one of the ufest processes in the world if you're going to come in and do this legally and the vetting is intense. >> extensive. >> some of these governors don't trust it. >> unless way than to get elected on the federal level -- >> some of them are running for president. it is kind of important. >> finally you got a chance to speak your mind. >> i am a wilting little flower that gets no sunlight during the day. let's go to the threats posed by terrorists who avoid traditional means of communication. that's drawing attention from

new york city's top cop. >> we have monitoring and they go dark because basically they're going on to an encrypted app, sites that we cannot access. >> why can't you access them in. >> basically the technology has been purposely designed by our manufacturers so that even they claim they can't get into their own devices after they built them. >> bill bratton yesterday on "morning joe" also yesterday jim brennan talk about the gaps in intelligence service. >> there has been a significant increase crease in the operational security in a number of the operatives and terrorists networks as they have gone to school on what it is they need to do in order to keep their activities concealed from the authorities. >> let's go up to capitol hill, retired executive director of the fbi sean henry is with us. good to see you again this

morning. what specifically are bill bratton speaking of there? >> they're talking about the phenomenon where the terrorists communications that they're not able to intercept ep. they're not anyone to encrypt them to put in plain text or voice, those communications so authorities can start to identify the totality of the terrorist conspiracies. and the application providers, technology providers in silicon valley and elsewhere they've built encrypted devices because there's a growing concern to keep communications secure. there's a concern that people are spying on their constituencies and they've built capabilities specifically to prevent that. terrorists are exploiting the same exact communication channels. >> and so are the nsa, the c ix a, people like that talking to these companies? we talked about apple i think

yesterday. are they trying to get movement on this and what's the case they're make in. >> there has been communication with government officials really trying to express the totality of what the threat is, what the risks are. i think what we saw in paris, although it's not been revealed specifically if there have been encrypted communications in that event. i think that is the general consensus and the speculation. by describing for these technology companies what the risks are, they're hoping there will be some more movement to provide with an authorized warrant law enforcement authorities the ability to touch these communications of identified terrorists. that's a debate that will continue to go forward and the american public is going to weigh in here because this is always a balance between privacy, civil liberties and the security of our nation. >> commissioner bratton said here yesterday that some the companies are working against was, the opposite of helping us here. thanks very much. appreciate it. when we come back we'll go live to brussels.

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that gives you sense of how nervous they are and i think increasingly concerned that there will be critical eyes turned on belgium because just for example, of the news that the man who must be the most wanted man in europe, salah abdel slam managed to escape from paris the day after attacks and get across the border from france to belgium despite what happened and at the same time, as the hours and days go on, you know, we're getting this picture of terrorists attacks, jewish museum here, for example, prior to the "charlie hebdo" attack, then of course the "charlie hebdo" attack that was linked to here. there was a major police raid that ended up in a firefight in this city soon after the "charlie hebdo" attacks. that was described as a raid on

a ten-person cell. there were many arrests throughout the year. and yet at the same time this attack in paris happened and many of the suspects are being traced back to this city. you know, there was an interview with the chief of police here in august, and he raised some really worrying questions in that interview. he said, we need american help to be able to monitor the internet communications were these guys and he said we simply don't have the resource to put surveillance 24/7 on our suspects. in this interview he said we can maybe put 2001 or two under surveillance. they think more than 100 people are come back here from syrian and iraq fighting the jihadists there. >> thank you very much for that report. something we can talk about ahead. still ahead, our next guest says there really isn't that to discuss when it comes on taking on isis. simply put, crush it. "the new york times" columnist roger cohen joins us from paris

on his canned did take. plus, from the foreign relations committee, senator chris murphy is our guest. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

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there will be an intensification of the strategy that we put forward, but the strategy that we're putting forward is the strategy that is ultimately going to work. it's best that we don't shoot first and aim later. it's important for us to get the strategy right and the strategy that we are pursuing is the right one. >> that was president obama at the conclusion of his news conference yesterday at the g20 summit in turkey. joining us now from paris is "the new york times" columnist roger cohen who covers international affairs and diplomacy, in washington,

democrat senator chris murphy of connecticut and retired lieutenant colonel tony shafr. i'd like to start with you senator murphy. there's a lot of concern and criticism that the president's response was at the very least disengaged. what do you say to that in. >> there's no doubt that we can do more. but i think the president is right to recognize that there is a limit to the potential of american military pow near the region. that the reason that isis exists is in part because of ten years of u.s. boots on the ground. and so while i was argue for an intensification of air strikes, i think that he's right to be fairly sober with the american people that this organization was ten years in the making. it's not going to be eliminated overnight. certainly not if there's not some political reconciliation on the ground.

i think people may want to hear from the president a clearer determination to eliminate this threat. but i think he's right to be, i think, fair with the american people. and congress, that this isn't going to happen overnight and this can't happen unless we have real partners on the ground leading in iraq and syria. that's where we make more progress. >> where was that? >> roger cohen, you're in paris right now. obviously a lot of us read and were talking about your column immediately after the attacks. the senator says we do need a clearer message from the president. but not just for americans but also for the people of paris. a lot of, a lot of concern coming out of europe. talk about how his address was greeted in paris. >> well, good morning.

viewed from a subdued and stunned and angry paris. i would say that the president's words yesterday in turkey felt very flat. it's all very well to say the strategy is working but it doesn't look like it's working with when 130 people have just been killed at random in clubs and restaurants and the streets of paris. and it seems to me that after this we got it wrong. we said that isis was a regional threat. it's not. it's a global threat. and to have isis controlling a wide area of territory in syria and iraq, where they can finance themselves through oil sales, organize and direct operations like this and say sometime in the future maybe we're going to resolve this, to me that's not enough. we have to take the territory back, just as we resolved after 9/11, that it was unacceptable

that al qaeda have a safe haven in afghanistan. >> lieutenant colonel schafer, what do we do? what do we learn from these attacks? how do we move forward more forcefully against isis? >> we've got the regional threat. we've got to retake the ungoverned space. we spoke about this briefly earlier this year. there is a way of doing this to organize our allies to air arab nato. that way we don't have our boots on the ground. we have to retake that space. because the ungoverned space as stipulated is the cesspool for isis to grow from. we have to understand they are become expedition nair and they're going to be targets soft targets. we saw this coming a year ago. and the president has got to listen to his advisers in the pentagon. general dunford just came in. look we have a lot of other options the president has before

him. i can't talk about them all openly. but let me put it this way. president obama continues as you said earlier, it's either 100 thousand of our troops or nothing. we had better options. we needs to listen to his advisers who are giving him the best possible advice and walk back the isis threat. >> dianne feinstein very concerned, other republicans and democrats alike very concerned. it is not a regional threat. and you look at the fact this is a terror organization that makes $50 million a month just on the black market with oil. and the ability to cause destruction and mayhem in washington and new york and london, across the globe, is very high. we can't allow them as the colonel said, we can't allow them to continue to govern the space they're governing now, can we? >> no, we can't.

but i've heard the same options that are presented to the president from the military. he's be honest. none of them would lead to the defeat of isis by december or june of next year. all of those military options, none of which of course involved 100,000 troops or 50,000 troops on the ground are still long term efforts. none of them work without the government in baghdad, the other arab governments working alongside us. and yes we have to be serious about the threat to the homeland. >> what do we do, senator? we've been sitting around saying -- >> but we've been saying but. >> we've had people on the set for two and a half years, three years coming on the set saying it's too hard. >> it's complicated. >> it's too complicated. it's just we can't do this and can't do that. you've got caves and concert halls shot up. washington as the next target. >> a plane blown up in the sky. >> a russian plane blown out of

the sky. >> canadian parliament. >> you look at what happened in beirut. they are coming to us. we may not have another three years to sit around and say this is too tough to figure out. so what do we do? >> i'm not being defeatist about it. what i'm suggesting is you have a large number of iraqis sitting outside of ramadi that could take the city. but because the kwliets is not being tough enough on the iraqis, they're just sitting back. we have not used the leverage that we have on the players on the ground to try to bring to an end the inevitability of the growth of the caliphate. there is absolutely more progress we can make but it eats about finding new leverage to put pressure on peopleike abadi to move. maybe now we'll have real partners in europe. maybe we'll have nato in our back to make progress. there's absolutely more we can

do to take these guys out but it's going to happen by using our military and political leverage in the region. >> mike -- >> talking to iranians and the russian to talk about a solution. >> what you're saying, mike barnacle, wasn't yesterday's moment when the president spoke, wasn't that the moment to call for that international unity on this, to reach out forthem to work collectively with them in. >> roger cohen wrote about this over the weekend. roger, let me ask you, wouldn't -- two questions. wouldn't part of invoking article 5 and creating a nato force just add fuel to recruiting fever that isis employs within europe? you've spent a large portion of your adult life in europe. isn't part of this something that is rarely mentioned by the president or by various politicians in the country in that we're engaged in a

generational war? >> i think we are. and there's no perfect policy. but the perfect should not be the enemy of the good. these guys are ruthless terrorists. all of the evidence is that they're pretty poor soldiers. kurdish forces have made big advances against isis. there's a lot we can do. we don't have to put 100,000 troops in. president putin has troops on the ground. why shouldn't we have troops on the ground. why should turkey be allowed to have a porous border with isis. i hope president obama spoke very firmly to the president about this. i think it is unacceptable to allow this to be held. if we're present on the ground, we can be part of the solution. president putin determined he has to be on the ground to be part of that solution. and to be the king of the slippery scope school of foreign

policy, bob blackwell's phrase, as president obama has been, is justified in a way because we all know there have been failures and mistakes and bigger roars since 9/11. but to determine on the basis of that that all forms of interventionism by the united states involving troops on the ground, boots on the ground are doomed to failure as the president seemed to say yesterday in turkey. well, i just think that is very misguided and very dangerous for stability in the world. because what underwrites stability in the world still today is american power. and if people doubt that, we're in a very dangerous place. >> thank you very, very much. coming up, we're going to talk to presidential candidate mike huckabee. she's got sharp words on america's refugee policy and they're aimed at his party's leadership in washington. while he says house speaker paul

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coming up at the top of the hour, paris, beirut and confirmation from moscow that the russian passenger jet was bomd over egypt. we'll be joined by chris jansing in paris with the latest on the ground there. and lester holt who just sat down with secretary of state john kerry. peter king joins us right here on "morning joe." we're back in a moment. , , we've created a new company...

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everything is nonnegotiable, they want you to die and they want to die themselves, it's just a matter of time. >> how do we give that to them? >> well, we can do it. [ applause ] there are a couple of things to consider here. the first is you're not going to be able to do it by dropping conventional bombs on people. militarily, the only purpose for bombs is to pave the way for people on the ground to seize and hold terrain long enough to create an environment in which there can be a real government to take out the trash. and we're not doing it and it takes a quarter of a million

people to do it probably just in syria. >> any good news, colonel? >> womell, i stayed at the holiy inn last night? >> that was last night on the late show. stephen colbert changed the ceiling last night to the eiffel tower peace signs and changed his opening credits to landmarks of new york to landmarks of paris. still with us we have mike barnacle, the washington post eugene robertson and joining us onset, author and political columnist jeff greenfield. there have been new raids in paris overnight, more than 100 of them. secretary of state john kerry met with french president fran what hollande. we're learning more about the attack. france has identify the linchpin in the attacks. his name is abdelhamid abood.

he once fought for isis in syria. a terrorism official tells nbc news that abood was in charge of keeping track to have attackers, manufacturing the suicide vests and choosing the target. meanwhile one man linked to the attacks is still on the run, salah abdel slam. he was briefed detained at a road check hours after the attack. two men accused of picking him up in are in custody. his brother spoke out after belgium police cleared him of involvement saying that his family learned about the attacks on tv and is still in shock. plus, breaking news this morning on the crash of that russian passenger jet in egypt. officials in moscow now say it was definitely a terrorist attack. after finding traces of explosives in the plane debris. according to the kremlin, a bomb with equivalent to more than 2

pounds of tnt exploded on board the aircraft. isis as you'll remember claimed responsibility, there are no waves of attacks on isis positions in seesh ya. french war planes and other coalition aircraft have launched new strikes in raqqah. according to the names, the u.s. took out 116 oil trucks in eastern syria as well. it's reportedly the first time the u.s. has gone after the vehicles the islamic state uses to smuggle luck tif crude oil. the plans for the raid and target a source of income that brings in tens of millions of tlar each month for isis. >> it's been estimated by the way that isis makes up to $50 million a month on the black market for oil supplies. and we've been asking around this table for well over a year now why haven't we disrupted those supplies. if you want to have the money to

have an international terror organization and get ahold of advanced webry, get ahold of the nuclear device, $50 million a month. a good way to get started. and we haven't disrupted the oil supply up until now. >> and those plans did predate the attacks here. the u.s. truman departed from norfolk, va ra and will be used in support of coalition attack on isis. >> we're going to be going to chris jansing live on the ground mika in just a few moments. first obviously a lot of people talking about the president's press conference yesterday. during his news conference in turkey, the president said the u.s. will intensify the strategy it has already put forward but that sending in u.s. ground

troops to fight isis would be a mistake. >> in the aftermath of paris, as i listen to those who suggest something else needs to be done, typically the things they suggest need to be done are things we are already doing. the one exception is that there had been a few who suggested that we should put large numbers of u.s. troops on the ground. and it is not just my view but the view of my closest military and so vailian advisers that that would be a mistake. and let's assume that we were to send 50,000 troops into syria. what happens when there's a terrorist attack generated from yemen? do we send more troops into there? or lip ya perhaps? or if there's a terrorist network that's operating anywhere else in north africa or in southeast asia.

folks want to pop off and have opinions about what they think they would do, present a specific plan. but what i'm not interested in doing is posing or pursuing some notion of american leadership or america winning or whatever other slogans they come up with that has no relationship to what is actually going to work to protect the american people and to protect people in the region who are getting killed and to protect our allies and people like france. i'm too busy for that. >> and here's how the president responded when he was asked if he has underestimated isis to this point. >> no, we haven't underestimated our abilities. this is precisely why we're in

iraq as we speak and why we're operating in syria as we speak. and it's precisely why we have mobilized 65 countries to go after isil. and why i hosted at the united nations an entire discussion of counterterrorism strategy and cushing the flow of foreign fighters. and why we've been putting pressure on those countries that have not been as robust as they need to in tracking the flow of foreign fighters in and out of syria and iraq. >> a look back, though, at an interview the president did with the new yorker in january of 2014 tells a different story. in the same interview in which he used the now enthat mouse jv analogy he went on to say i think there is a distinction between the capacity and reach of a bin laden and a network that is ak tuffly planning major

terrorist plots against the homeland versus jihadists who are engaged in local power struggles and disputes often sectarian. >> willie, a disconnect it seems between the president, the president's press conference which the "washington post" called petulant and defensive and what others have actually called worse. and what a lot of people in france are feeling on the ground and as you said last hour, what bill bratton is feel right here. >> absolutely. >> the strategy is not working. >> you had the image of the french president giving a speech that obviously it happened on his homeland, there was passion, he talked about we are at war ap then the split screen with president obama was jarring because of that. the president said we have the right strategy and we're going to see it through. that doesn't ring true with a lot of people. when you saw what happened in paris or what happened in beirut a few days ago, we now know it was terrorism that brought down the russian yet over the sinai

peninsula. common sense tells anybody watching the news that the strategy isn't working. >> the president seems to be standing alone here for the most part. as far as his reaction to it and every president reacts differently different ly obviously. what the french called an act of war the president called a setback which was stunning to our allies in france. >> it may sound superficial to talk about affect as opposed to substance. but watching the interview was really unsettling because there was a sense that whether it was out of exhaustion or whether out of impatient of what he regards as overreach or blurs. but you didn't have a sense there of a commander in chief just in terms of how he presented himself. he has no know this is a truth of politics. when people legitimately feel afraid, whether it's about an

impending war were terrorism, crime, people tend to swing toward the safe. they want experience and strength. the political compass swings right. and the idea of a person saying don't worry, everything is working when you can't demonstrate how that is so is what's so unsettling. >> you're a perfect person to have here because we can talk about how strong leadership, the ability to deliver a powerful speech at the right time actually can bend history. of course churchhill in 1940 was one of the greatest example. you were right there with bobby kennedy the night martin luther king died. he went into inner city of indianapolis and the strength of his own words, the power of his own speech changed history in the words of bobby kennedy, bent history that night. >> i think it's a lot harder to link words to action when you're talking about what is in effect

a mini state in two countries. but it is true that if you want people to say don't panic, don't overreact, don't start swinging a club in the sense of we're not going to have any refugees here even if they're 3-year-old kids. the economist said since 9/11 we've resettled 750,000 refugees in america. not one connected to domestic terrorism. but the wave of emotion against that feeling, the only way you're going to stop that is to show what you're doing and there are results. this is where i thought the president was tone deaf. >> rhett me ask jean robinson about that. i think a lot of us felt that, that the optics and the tone were off. that does matter to an extent. i wonder if it has anything to do with what he was, our relationship with turkey. you would think there would be an urgent call for collective response to this and to really

try to garner support from other nation to do something quickly together. and yet he is in turkey in the middle of this summit. i don't know necessarily how easy turkey has been to work with over the past year. >> well, turkey has not been easy to work with at all over the past year. that has to be one of the things that was on the president's mind. anything thing that had to be on his mind was that side bar conversation he had with vladimir putin which was fascinating to see from a distance, him and putin and susan rice and a translator sitting down in a corner engaged in an intense discussion. we can guess what they were talking about. look, he had a thousand things on his mind. and as i've written, the tone was wrong. i think the substance was much closer to right than wrong. and in the end, that is, yes, stirring words can move the world but you got to know how

you want to move it and what you want to do. and the president is, i think, deeply convinced that the strategy he has outlined and following now hasn't worked yet. >> what's the strategy? >> but he thinks it's right. >> but i guess the question is what's the strategy? we have senators on democratic and republican citizens that can't name the strategy. we don't have a strategy there. >> we do have a strategy. >> what is it? >> the strategy is number one, not to send in u.s. troops. >> that's not a strategy, james. that's not a strategy rngts if you let me finish then i'll tell you what the strategy is. if you'll let me finish. the strategy is theoretically to arm and aid the iraqis, including the kurds in taking back some of the territory in iraq that was -- that isil has

taken and in syria, to essentially cut off, try to cut off the border with turkey so isil cannot resupply itself with fighters as easily, and they've done some of that. and keep it from overrunning the entire place while a political solution is sought and found to the syrian civil war. and indeed, last week secretary kerry met with the russian foreign minister love rove and others involved in syria and came up with a framework of working toward a political settlement in syria. the problem, of course, is does it -- you know, how do you get assad out of the picture. i think the president is right. unless you get assad out of the picture, you don't solve the syrian civil war. you potentially make things

worse. >> a partial explanation for what happened yesterday could be found in a couple of things. barack obama is a very smart guy and he's smart enough to know he has 14 months left in his term and he's smart enough to know that he made a mistake two years ago in august when he reneged on the syrian policy, that if you use check call weapons you've crossed a line, we're going to do something about it. we did nothing about it. now he's left with 14 months left in office and he knows we're involved in a generational war. hae his not addressed the country about this and he is confronted with a series of options on his desk, all of them totally unattractive, that he's going to have to hand over to his successor, whoever that might be. and now he's thinking is this really going to be my legacy. that i came in with war and then i'm leaving with a larger war. >> well, but mark halperin, the legacy that he also leaves is

the middle east in chaos, the largest refugee crisis since world war ii, bloodshed in paris cafes and concert halls, a lack of focus in foreign policy. and this isn't a republican saying it. you can hear it from foreign policy experts from the left to the right that he has an unfocused foreign policy. and with all due respect to jean robinson, a strategy against isis which is a nonstrategy. it's to run out the clock, go into the four corners. training iraqi and syrian soldiers, we found out that does not work. we've got news stories that are costing us hundreds of millions of dollars and we've maybe trained four or five. we seemed to be directionalists right now, mark halperin. >> well i think mike laid out a lot of the president's mind-set accurately. he simply doesn't have the relationships around the world or with congress to build a

worldwide coalition as only a u.s. president can to try to confront this. turkey, saudi arabia, they're not going to bend to the will of the united states right now. he's also dealing with the very powerful vladimir putin. and i agree, he doesn't want his legacy to be to put american ground troops in a way that would be inherited by the next person. the last thing i'll say though is that there's a human element here, which is a lot of americans were worried about isis and scared about isis before. what happened in paris is unacceptable to civilized society and only a president can say here's what we're going to do, world to deal with this. part of a coalition and he didn't say that. he said we're going to do more of the same. >> i know. that's what i was wondering about. >> what you were saying. >> i just wonder if there -- this sounds like i'm making excuses. but i wonder if there are things happening, given where he was and who he was talking to which muted him at the time. but it seemed to me the exact

moment to call for collective action. >> the exact moment to call for collective action. the kpangt moment as jeff greenfield said to calm americans to make sure there's not an overreaction, to let them know there is a plan moving forward, a message to the french, a message to turkey that we're not going to allow you to continue maintaining the porous border -- >> that's where i'm not sure -- >> a message to the world. and up stead he attacked the press and republicans. >> okay. >> politics, whoever said politics stops at the water's edge needs a gps. he's also confronted with a republican party that does not in any way want to give him any kind of backing whether they think it's right 0 wrong. >> let's go to paris. we've got lester holt. he just spoke with secretary of state john kerry. lester, what can you tell us? >> reporter: well, of course, secretary kerry came here to

offer his condolences and represent the u.s. he met with president hollande today. he's concerned that the international community is not on the same page, that it does not have a strategy. he'll be meeting with president obama and president putin separately to discuss that. secretary kerry and i spoke at some length about the context of what's happened in paris and the context of the greater isis strength we've seen of late. how could the u.s. and the west expectations of isis be so wrong? >> i disagree that people didn't know they had this capacity. we certainly have known -- >> that they could blow up a plane? >> sure. they have gained great expertise over a period of time and they have some people in isis who have been fight in the terror network for appear idea of time.

they have access to c4, access to explosives. everybody knows that. >> so you weren't surprised by what we saw in paris? >> i was shocked by it, not surprised. i find that we all know, because we're following the threat streams, that any individual who wants to strap a suicide vest around them can walk into any public event in most places in the world and blow him or herself up and destroy people with them. so that's the nature of terror. that's why terrorists are called terrorists. they spread terror. >> reporter: we also discussed that latest threat from isis, the propaganda video that came out that threatened washington, d.c. as a target. the secretary said it's nothing new, we've heard these sorts of things from isis before. we also talked about the growing number of governors who say they do not want to accept any syrian

refugees in their states. and i pressed him on whether you know, they have the right to do that. he said they have the right to question who's coming into their states, but it's his hope, he's echoing what the president said, that our country would not turn its back on people who had been vetted and who are fleeing the terror of places like syria. >> thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. mika, your reaction? >> i worry a little bit that we're not connecting the dots for fear of, you know, people going hysterical. but there were definitely warnings about canada and then something happened in canada. we have a jetliner that blew up in the sky. we had a massacre in paris. why no the world wouldn't we put all hands on decks in the united states. >> and thou a threat specifically to washington, d.c. and the white house saying they don't have the ability to strike in the united states. >> well, and but is not what anybody want to hear right now

rngts it's unbelievable. there is word possibly of the president going to paris on december 1st. >> for the climate conference. he's going to be there december 1st through december 3rd. that's the schedule right now. i would expect, people will expect that he will certainly address what happened in paris when he's in paris. >> he didn't go to paris after the hebdo attacks. >> let's go to paris right now. chris jansing is standing by with more. chris? >> reporter: well, i think that what's kind of leading the conversation here on the ground is how much the french are looking to the united states. how much they were paying attention to what the president has to said yesterday. and frankly, how much the conversation has changed because several people who live here told me after "charlie hebdo" there was a lot of comparison

made by the french. look what the united states did after 9/11 and they rejected many of the things as too extreme, that they didn't feel like they needed to go there. now it seems to be a very different mood. i think there is a stronger feeling obviously of grief but also some anti-muslim feeling here. in addition to that, they're looking at things they never would have considered after the "charlie hebdo" attacks. they're looking at the possibility of putting awe lot more people under house arrest with the electronic bracelets, more surveillance powers for intelligence services here. so those are things that they have looked at in terms of what the united states has done. but they're also looking for leadership because as even the french jets have been going up again over syria and more bombing raids, the united states does the best majority of those sore's the. and even though france is number two, it's just a fraction of what the united states does.

so what the president says and what the united states is committed to do is key to the conversations that are happening here. >> chris jansing, thank you so much. >> a lot of people getting what they want to hear from feel from france leadership. the president there basically declaring war, saying we're at war with isis. and vowing to destroy isis. >> he's got to answer how. how. >> the how is going to have to be collective, i mean, isn't it not? eni just -- look, i think most of us are responding to the language the president used. i's not that they aren't doing anything. i know jean tried to zroib the strategy, there's drone strikes, going after the oil supply. there are a lot of thing underway right now, clearly some that predate the attacks. >> there's not been an overarching strategy to defeat isis. and part of the problem is the fact, if you believe that the president believed that isis is contained, if you believe they

can't strike the homeland as the white house said over the weekend, if you believe your strategy is working while blood is draining through the streets of paris and while your allies are looking at your scratching their head looking for leadership, then, then maybe you give the kind of talk the president got. but it seemed to be disconnected from reality. and mike, it seems to me that we're hearing more and more that a few people in the white house are more and more disconnected from the pentagon, from state, from outside advisers. >> yeah. well there's always going to be a separation, a healthy separation between what occurs in the white house, national security council and the president's top advisers from what the pentagon wants to do. the pentagon's business is difference from the white house business. it always has been. but there are very, very smart people in the pentagon, planners who are bound and determined to root out isis. and their thinking is the only

way to root out isis is you to take territory from them. you have to define them in the world's eyes as losers. and you define them as lewers by taking raqqah. by going in and eliminating them in raqqah. >> mark halperin, eugene robinson thank you were jep greenfield thank you as well. we're going to get a live report from nbc news chief global correspondent bill neely on the manhunt for the linchpin in the attacks who seems to be taunting law enforcement in a magazine interview. from different sides of the aisle but they both question president obama's thoughts on isis. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. how about a% raise? (patrick 2) how about 20? (patrick 1) how about done? (patrick 2) that's the kind of control i like... ...and that's what they give me at national car rental. i can choose any car in the aisle i want-

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but what's next? for all binge watchers. movie geeks. sports freaks. x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. just in this morning, a german media outlet is reporting three people have been arrested in connection with the paris attacks. let's go to nbc news chief global correspondent bill neely in paris this morning with the latest on the investigation. good morning. >> reporter: good morning.

arrests in germany, arrests in belgium and france. this is a europe-wise investigation an indeed intelligence agencies from the u.s. to israel also involved in this. the very latest is that police here have found two hotel rooms outside paris that they believe may have been used by the killers before the massacres. they were booked in the name of the accomplice who is on the run, salam abdel slam. police are carried out 126 raids during the night, making almost 300 in the last 48 hours. and french war planes have carried out more strikes on the isis strong hold of raqqah in syria. referencing your previous discussion, many of the french newspapers today are picking up on the gap in the rhetoric between president hollande and president obama speaking in

turkey yesterday. leer are a few things they're pointing out. president hollande said this is an act of war. president obama said this events in paris were a terrible and sickening setback. president hollande had a message for isis, you weren't destroy france. france will destroy you. president obama said we have a very aggressive strategy but then saying if you have a handful of people who don't mind dying, it's not the weaponry or their sophistication, it ear their willingness to die that's challenging. the gap between the rhetoric between those two presidents is being picked up here. remember, both countries are members of nato and president hollande is really pulling the united states to do more. you heard president obama yesterday saying we're giving more intelligence, more quickly, more often to france. but really for the french, collective defense, they're emphasizing that.

they're an obligation and they want to see the u.s. doing more. and that will be part of the talks today between president hollande and secretary of state kerry. >> thank you. so much of what with ee've been discussing if the past hour and a half. we are stunned by what the president said yesterday. >> or what he didn't say. >> do you sense bitterness in the streets of paris or right now just concern? >> reporter: i think bitterness would be putting it too far. i think people here are very grateful for the show of solidarity across the world with twice in a year now with what they have suffered. but among french political circles, i think they sense an opportunity to draw closer to the united states. look, the relationship between paris and washington has been often in the past pretty touchy

and stretching back to gulf war i when france was not involved, you know -- sorry gulf war ii, the iraq war under george bush jr., you know, there's been a difficult relationship between the two militaries, the two intelligent services. france is asking for more help and it is at the united nations now calling for a grand coalition, france the united states, russia to take on isis. so they want something much, much bigger. >> all right. thank you so much. nbc news's bill neely. >> let's go to capitol hill, got democratic congress seth mo on the. also here onset, former campaign senior strategist steve schmitt. good morning. i'll start with you congressman. what were your impressions as you watched the president of the

united states speaking about this crisis around the world in turkey yesterday? >> well, look, i've said for some time that isis is a national security threat to the united states and to our allies and we need to have a comprehensive plan to defeat isis. i'm not confidence that we have that right now. we're putting troops on the ground, we're dropping bomb but we need to talk about how we're going to fill the political vacuums in the middle east that allowed isis to flourish. we got iraq to a relatively stable place but then we pulled the political advisers out and the iraqi government went off the rails so much so that its own army didn't trust them. as a result we're sending troops back into iraq five years after we left. i went back to iraq in february as a member of the armed services committee and it wis disheartening to see so much of what we fought for and achooiev go to waste. >> were you concerned by the

president's tone yesterday? >> i was concerned that we're not doing more. i don't think we have this long term strategy. we're not going to defeat isis just by killing their fighters on the ground. we have to have a diplomatic and political plan and we've got to be clear to the troops we send in to combat what their long term mission is. i don't think we've made that clear. >> steve schmitt, your take yesterday. >> you can look at the entire post war era from hairy truman through barack obama. very difficult to find an analogy for performance yesterday where the american commander in chief was a small arrogant petulant not rising to the occasion as this american president was yesterday. it was an extraordinary performance in that a total lack of leadership in the context of leading the american people in this crisis, leading the western

allies in the global community. extraordinary. >> well, you know, the "washington post" called him petulant and defensive. roger cohen said it wu shameful that he did not match up to what was feeling on the streets of paris. we hear from bill neely as well that french newspapers -- >> those parallels were really striking. >> the parallels between what the president is saying, president of france and what our president is saying. >> yeah. bill neely pointed out the contrast of now being drawn in the press in paris. but congressman molden, given the level of discourse here, given what we're talking about, do you think it's time for the president of the united states to speak to the nation and as you indicated, outline a goal that we might have with regard to isis in the middle east and in the short term future. >> we, i think that's exactly what we need. and i also think he needs to

outline a long term plan. we've got to use not jus our military power but our economic might. we've got to have the plan for the aftermath of syria. we've got to have a plan to put the iraqi government back together. and i also want to hear a plan to make sure that we don't repeat the same mistakes that we made coming out of iraq as we come out of afghanistan because if we do that, and we create another political vacuum in the middle east within just like we had before september 11th where they were able to have terrorists camps, then we'll be sending troops back into afghanistan five years after we pulled them out just like we're doing today in iraq. >> thank you very much. steve, stay with us. stale ahead on "morning joe." [ speaking foreign language ]

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43 past the hour. now for the latest on the investigation into the terror attacks in paris and the fight against isis. this morning russian security service announced that the crash of a st. petersburg bound passenger plane in egypt was a terrorist act. they say traces of explosive

were found in the wreckage that killed 224 people. the country just announced a $50 million reward for information leading to the capture of those responsible. and more is being learned about the so-called linchpin in friday's attacks in france. his name is abdelhamid abaaoud. a 27-year-old belgium who once boasted about killing infidels. a senior u.s. counter terrorism firnl tells nbc news that abaaoud was in charge of keeping track of the attackers, manufacturing the suicide vests and choosing the target. up next, he says the obama administration is rolling the dice when it comes to vetting syrian refugees bound for america. the man who used to head the homeland security committee, congressman peter king joins us next. in a treehouse, or even in miss pepperpie's house.

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member of the house homeland security and intelligence committees, republican congressman peter king of new york. congressman good to have you on board. >> thank you mika. >> i just -- we'll start i guess with the refugees and your concerns about syrian refugees specifically coming here. >> yeah, i'm extremely concerned because what the president is telling us is not true. we cannot vet the refugees from syria. there are no database to work against. there are no governor christie records. when i talk to people involved in the vetting, they have no confidence at all in the people that are being allowed in. there's in way -- people talk about thorough vetting, there is no vetting. that is the reality. >> there is vetting. >> there is not. mika -- >> there are face-to-face interviews, health screenings. often it takes two years for a family to get here. >> mika, you're entirely wrong. >> actually sir, i think you're wrong. >> i met with the people doing the interviews. i'm talking to the people

involved in the highest levels of government. they have no confidence at all. this is not proper vetting. >> but the vetting is happening whether you like it or not. >> it is not a real vetting. you cannot vet. you have nothing to base it against. you are 100% wrong. >> so meeting face to face and screening them and interviewing them and often making -- that is not vetting. >> -- wait months and years, that is not a vetting process? >> you cannot vet unless you have material to base it -- >> so should we say syrians stay out of america, you're not welcome here? >> we're not saying syrians. unless we know who the refugees are, we cannot let them in. my in jb is to protect americans. if americans get killed because we're letting people in because they are not properly vetted -- they cannot be properly vetted. you are wrong. >> specifically, why are they

not being vetted. how is mika wrong in. >> there are no databases whatsoever. they have no records to base it against. they don't know who he is. i'm talking to the people at th the highest level. >> what about the example? when you say talking to the people at the highest levels, can you be more specific? >> this is information we get in classified briefings. they ask the questions, they don't know if the person is giving the right answer or wrong answers. there are no databases. >> what if it's a 5-year-old orfao orphan? >> any problem with women and children? >> joe, we have women terrorists, absolutely we're concerned about women coming in. women and men. unfortunately isis is an equal opportunity employer. women and men can both be involved as terrorists.

absolutely. >> so, congressman, what vetting process does take place now and if there is a vetting process that does take place now, what does it encompass? are people saying come on in and they open the door and come in? >> you answer the question who are you, where are you from? have you been involved in terrorist activity? the guy can tell you a name, he's not involved in terrorist activities. we have no record to base it against. >> of course there's no records. that are refugees. >> you had the head of the fbi and department of home land security saying they are concerned because there are not records to vet against. these are people that president obama has in his on administrati -- own administration. >> but that's different from saying there's no vetting

process. there are four agencies involved. >> it is inadequate, mika. >> what do we do? we've allowed refugee into this country for well over 200 years. why do we stop now. why is this case different from other cases in the past? >> because we're dealing with an organization which is involved in terrorist activity. in the past, for instance, if jews wanted to come from germany. i supported 150,000 bosnians coming into this nation. this were not a risk to this nation. i would say we find a sanctuary for them in the middle east. until then, we cannot put americans at risk.

whether or not that person in paris was a refugee, i don't know. what is important is that we know they have the capacity it do it. and coming from new york because we want to feel good and do what we think is the right thing, allow somebody into this country who is going to be killing somebody in the new york subway system or -- >> we just put up a states where all the governors have said for the last 24 hours or so they don't want refugees coming in. do the governors have the right to decide who comes across their borders? >> i don't think they do. i think the president has the final word. the president has to consult with governors but he has the final say. >> thank you very much. we're going to talk to democratic congressman keith ellison. he will i'm sure have a different view. back in a moment. you didn't tell me aunt alice was coming. of course.

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up next, we're live in paris with several new developments to try and track down other planners in the terror attacks there. plus moscow confirms what the u.s. has suspected for a while now, the plane was brought down by a bomb. and what would presidential candidate mike huckabee do so

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♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ >> translator: terrorism will not destroy the republic. because it is the republic who will destroy it. long live france. long live the republic. ♪ good morning.

it is tuesday, november 17th. welcome to "morning joe." with us we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle, mark halper halperin, and eugene robinson as well. good to have you all on board. >> we have an awful lot to get to today. we need to talk obviously about the press conference yesterday, which was inexplicable, almost as inexplicable as the republicans' response but let's start with the headlines and start with the investigation. >> in a moment we're going to get to the president's news conference. it's drawn reaction from all over the idea logical map but first the latest developments in the paris attack. new raid in paris overnight, more than 100 of them. secretary of state john kerry met with french president francois hollande hours after he

said it was planned in syria. france identified the lyninchpi in the attack, abdelhamid abaao abaaoud. abaaoud was in charge of keeping track of the attackers, manufacturing the suicide vests. prosecutors have identified five of the seven dead assailants, four are frenchmen and one was born in syria and fingerprinted in greece last month with a passport discovered near his body. officials in turkey said they told france about one of the attackers twice, in december of 2014 and june of 201. the attack are entered turkey in

2013 and may have traveled to syria. turk is authorities say they never hurd back from their french counterparts. one man is still on the run, sal salah abdeslam. authorities believe he rented a car used by attackers found outside the bataclan concert hall which ended in 89 deaths and many wounded. >> plus, there is breaks news on the crash of that russian passenger jet. officials say in moscow it was definitely a terrorist attack after finding traces of

explosives in the plane debris. according to the kremlin, a bomb with the equivalent of more than two pounds of at&t exploded on the aircraft. let's go to chris jansing starting off. >> reporter: this is significant obviously, not just overall but to the folks here who are looking to see if there is a broader connection to isis. this is the first time that we have heard from russian authorities, including their intelligence service, that this definitely was a terrorist attack. you mentioned the size of the bomb, a kilogram, 2.2 pounds of tnt. in addition to that, it was apparently a homemade explosion of device that brought down that plane on october 31st that killed 224 people over the sinai peninsula. russia had offered a $50 million reward. and in the meantime they are also welcoming here along with news that could help them hone

in on who might be behind these terrorist attacks, the offer from vladimir putin that he is willing to intensify the air campaign and that he and president obama now looking to come here to france to meet with president who will hollande sometimes next week, joe and mika. >> thank you very much. and president obama arrived in the philippines yesterday for an asia pacific summit after addressing the g-20 summit. during his news conference, he said the u.s. will intensify the strategy that it has already put forward but that sending u.s. ground troops it fight isis would be a mistake. >> in the aftermath of paris, as i listen to those who suggest something else needs to be done, typically the things they suggest need to be done are things we're are already doing. the one exception is that there had been a few who suggested

that we should put large numbers of u.s. troops on the ground. and it is not just my view but the view of my closest military and civilian advisers that that would be a mistake. let's assume that we were to send 50,000 troops into syria. what happens when there's a terrorist attack generated from yemen? do we then send more troops in there or libya perhaps? or if there's a terrorist network operating anywhere else in north africa or southeast asia? folks want to pop off and have opinions about what they think they would do, present a specific plan. but what i'm not interested in doing is posing or pursuing some

notion of american leadership or american winning or whatever other slogans they come up with that has no relationship to what is actually going to work to protect the american people and to protect people in the region who are getting killed and to r protect our allies and people like france. i'm too busy for that. >> here's how the president responded if he was asked if he underestimated isis to this point. >> no, we haven't underestimated our abilities. this is precisely why we're in iraq as we speak and why we're operating in syria as we speak. it precisely why we have mobilized 65 countries to go after isil and why i hosted at the united nations an entire discussion of counterterrorism

strategies and curbing the flow of foreign fighters. and why we've been putting pressure on those countries that have not been as robust as they need to in tracking the flow of foreign fighters in and out of syria and iraq. >> but a look back at an interview the president did with the "new yorker" in january of 2014 tells a different story. in the same interview in which he used the same jv team analogy, president obama went on to say "i think there is a distinction between the capacity and reach of a bin laden and a net work that is actively planning major terrorist plots against the homeland versus jihadists who are engaged in local power struggles and disputes, often sectarian. >> roger cohen of the "new york

times" wrote "where was the anger in that obama press conference? i'm in paris. his words fell shamefully short of sentiment here." and "a petulant sounding president blom a insisted as he has before that his critics have offered to concrete alternatives, the president would be wise to set aside his defensiveness and reconsider them. >> charles krauthammer said there was passivity and annoyance in the president's voice. and eugene robinson writes obama's tone in addressing the paris atrocity was all wrong. at tombs he was patriot t-- patronizing and at other times he seemed annoyed and almost

dismissive. mika, it was shocking. people who work for other governments find it shocking what others define as an act of war, the president defines as -- he said i'm too busy for that, people can pop off if they want to, he was petulant, he was clearly irritated through the entire press conference and i think most frightening is the fact that he seems disconnected from reality, the reality on the ground in paris, the reality on the ground in syria, the reality on the ground. he is the opposite of a neocon

that is more wedded of the ideology on the ground and taken the world around for a while. >> do we have the dianne feinstein bite ready to go? i'd like to play this. take a look. >> i've never been more concerned. i read the intelligence faithfully. isil is not contained. isil is expanding. they've just put out a video saying it is their intent to attack this country, and i think we have to be prepared. there's only one way we're going to diminish them and that is by taking them out because they are growing. they are in more than a dozen countries now. they are sophisticated, they have apps to communicate on it that cannot be pierced even with

a court order. so they have a kind of secret way of being able to conduct operations and operational planning. so we should take this very, very seriously. >> and a lot of pop in new york city very, very concerned at the president's passive response to paris. >> we had commissioner bill bratton seated there yesterday and we gave him comments from the white house that the isil doesn't have the capacity to reach the united states and the look on his face said it all. he said excuse me? he said of course this is very real, of course we need to be more aggressive, of course we need to do more than we're doing right now. it's been a hallmark of president obama's presidency to be cool, show no drama, show no emotion. there are moments when people want to see him show emotion.

i know he was asked about critics of his program. he seemed more annoyed and aggressive about that than the problem in front of him. >> the only time he showed passion was when he attacking republicans, not talking about isis. >> does that lack a matter of strategy. he's taking new measures? is there new strategy and we just haven't heard that? >> mike barnicle. >> i've been told by several people that the president of the united states has been told repeatedly that the strategy being employed right now is not nearly as effective as he, the president, wants it to be or thinks it is. this could have played a part in his reaction yesterday because now it is very clear the strategy is not effective. you cannot affect them with a

bombing game. >> even men and women who we speak to say the bombing campaign is a joke. it's for show. what's so eye ron ek what he said yesterday is i'm not going to do anything, i'm too busy. his entire bombing campaign, he's posing through a bomb being cam pan. >> more than half the planes that take off in our cam pan come back -- >> without dropping the bomb. >> yes. >> and it's beautiful and where the united states policy is and where it's going. >> the country and the world on have one president of the united states at a time and that posture that he had yesterday is not going to satisfy large numbers of people on the planet, large numbers of people in the country and, as you suggested, joe, not just republicans but a

lot of democrats. the president is a very rational guy, he's very frustrated by the options that he has, he's very frustrated by the criticism that he gets, but as willie and some others have suggested, there comes a time when the intellect and the plaque and white and gray as opposed to the black and white has to be put aside to say the world needs american leadership. again, the performance yesterday baffling i think is about the nicest thing you could say about it from the point of view of a lot of people who expected a much different approach. >> gene, obviously the usual suspects, the republicans were attacking. you have the french deeply concerned, saying it was shameful. the editorial board calling the president petulant. and one more failure from

washington, d.c. from the democratic president and loons on the far right on immigrants. you had a republican actually attacking republicans on "the washington post" editorial board, editorial paej talking about how their reaction is all wrong as well. >> well, you can say the u.s. reaction in general has been muddled to say the least. you quoted from my column earlier in which i clearly said the president's tone was all wrong. he sounded defensive, he sounded annoyed at the whole thing and one understands his annoyance but he shouldn't have projected that. that said, the substance of what he said is something we should also focus on and he asks a very good question, which is what is the alternative policy? what is the realistic alternative policy that is going to have more of an impact on

iceit confronts the central question, which is are you going to send u.s. ground troops? how many are you going to seasoned? i have been told by people who really know and who follow this carefully, people in the region, that you're talking 30,000 to 40,000 minimum, if you're going to take out isis. >> stel ahead, how modern skrel phone technology is making it harder to track terrorism. and florent groberg will join us along with mike huckabee. we'll be right back.

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let's go to the threats that's drawing attention new york city's top top. >> they are going on to sites where we can't access. >> why can't you access them? >> it's been purposely defined by our manufacturers that even they claim they can't get into their own devices. >> and bill bratten talked yesterday. >> there have been an increase in these operative networks as

they've gone to school to learn how to keep their activities from authorities. >> director of the fbi shawn honeyry is with us. good to see you again this morning. what are bill bratton and mr. brennan speaking about right now? >> they're talking about this phenomenon that strategies they know law enforcement are not able to intercept or are not able to encrypt them to put in plain voice so authorities can start to identify the conspiracy. and there's been a growing concern in the u.s. and globally to keep communications concerned. there's a concerned post-snowden that governments are spying on

their constituencies, on their civilians and they've built capabilities to exploit that and terrorists are exploiting that act technology. >> we talked about apple i think yesterday. are they trying to get movement on this and what's the case they're making? >> there has been communication with government officials, really trying to express the totality of what the threat is and what the risks are. i think hwa we saw in paris, though it's not been revealed specifically, if there had been encrypted communication in that event. by describing what the risks are, they're hoping there will be more movement with an autorused warrant law enforcement authorities ability to touch these communications of identified terrorists. and the american public is going to weigh in here. this is always a balance between

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for the latest in the investigation of the terror attacks, we have confirmed there were three arrests in germany. we're going to be bringing you more details as this story develops throughout the day. >> and growing number of governors are expressing concerns about having syrian refugees in their state. the debate is moving on to whether or not the governors is that right to say so. let's bring in a man who is obviously very vocal on the issue. he's also running for president of the united states.

former governor mike huckabee of arkansas. governor huckabee, interestingly enough, you decided yesterday to place pressure on paul ryan. why is paul ryan a target in this post-paris debate is it. >> i don't want him to be a target, i want him to be a leader. if the president is not going to stand up with the number one duty of protecting the american public, then i'd like to think that the republicans we elected to be in the majority would stand up for the safety and security of the american people. paul ryan's the speaker. he can defund this program, he can make sure the purse strings are never unleashed for it. >> how is the president of the united states not defending the people of america? >> well, first of all, joe, if you have a process where you're going to have tens of thousands of people coming here from the middle east, you have no idea

who they are, there's no way to check them, the fbi director says you can't check them. the president has been talking with such a level of pech lance yesterday, that his speech was bizarre. the american people have a right to be afraid after what they say in paris. i think people generally frustrated that the president doesn't understand -- >> we've been saying that for two hours. i don't know why a 5-year-old from syria should bear the blame for president obama's pet u lens. >> let me ask this.

if you bought a five-pound bag of peanuts and you knew there were about ten peanuts that were deadly poisonous, would you feed them to your kids? the answer is no. if we're going to help these refugees, why don't we do it in an area closer to where they are being refugees from. and why are they refugees? why are they refugees? >> i think you and i probably agree on this point bass the presidents ignored the growing crisis in syria. >> exactly. >> the end of the day, the answer to this crisis is bringing stability back to that region. you and i agree on that. i'm just wondering, though, we have a situation where -- we had a very stringent process in place in this country for some time for people coming into the country legally. that's within of the things i'm sure irritates you as it irritates me.

illegal immigration is a problem and irritates me because you and i have both seen people try and get here through our stringent process legally and it doesn't seem fair. can you and i both agree it is an extraordinarily stringent process to bring refugees to this country? >> it is very difficult unless the government decides to sort of throw all of those normal protocols out of withe window. >> we haven't done that, have we? >> that's what the president is suggests, bringing in tens of thousands unvetted. when the president of france -- let's be clear, we understand the president of france is a left wing socialist, politically correct kind of guy in france, he's closing his borders at a time when the only thing president obama wants to close is gitmo. here's another question, joe.

i hear hillary clinton or bernie sanders or martin o'malley saying we should bring them in. how many are going to chappaqua? how many to hollywood? how many to manhattan's upper east side? you have governors saying we have no money to educate people are we're sucking air, we're supposed to handle the medical expenses and the housing issues here. you're going to pring them to our states. who's going to pay for this. we can do it much less expensively and let's ask saudi to set up a camp. my gosh how much money have they made money off america. >> let go around the table. mook barnicle. >> sense september 11th there have been refugees let into the

united states. why is there the fear of the body politics of the potential refugees from syria? >> i think it because we have seen with our own eyes what happens when you have a policy of open borders in france. >> governor, they're european nationals. >> some of them were -- there were at least two reported to be syrian refugees. >> within maybe. one maybe. >> how many is too many? you got 127 people dead, over 300 wounded, many in critical condition, all of them were out there going to concerts, to soccer matches, eating dinner. we're not talking about warriors killed in the battlefield. we're talking about -- this have a right to expect that their leaders will actually lead and not simply makes excuses.

if they are going to say we're going to bring in refugees, bring them closer to the people who think it's a great idea, not to the people who don't think it's a great idea. >> steve schmidt. >> governor, should we look more closely at muslim imit's not about muslims per se, it's about mus lms who are radical oozed. i don't know i don't know of any methodis methodists, of any episcopalians, i don't know of any other group of peoplon ekely that are targeting these individual civilians. it is about radical muslims. and frankly, i wish the democrats and especially tho.

>> the president said yesterday there shouldn't be a religious test and it's shameful that people suggest we focus more on letting christians into the country than muslims into the country. what's your response? >> well, look, there's not a religious test that i'm aware of but i go back to my point. if the episcopalians are the ones wreaking havoc and raping women indiscriminately, cutting people's heads off, i think we'd say we better be careful with these methodists until we find out whether they're normal methodists or radical methodists. the number one job of the president is to protect americans, not the reputation of islam. sometimes i think the president is so defensive of the represent

taegs of islam, i think he forgets it's his job to "the washington post"'s main editorial, their editorial paej has called the prz pet right-hand. >> steve schmidt said you could go back to the end of world war ii and the post-war history and never see a performance as lacking as the president's yesterday. so that is said. we have done your bid on krit souzi souzing. >> if you're standing, if want it prn that the president of the united states was behind, what would you tell the world?

go. >> our french fellow citizens, our french friends have discovered an extraordinary horror. it time to stand shoulder to shoulder with them. it's time it realize that if they're willing to go to war with ice is, we need to go to war with them and we need to call upon every person in the civilized world to stop this malignant cancer. this is not a benign cancer that can be con it and we call upon the nations of the middle east who blow there should be some modern approach to this civilization as opposed to going to the 7th century and we say let's get and let's bring peace and safety back to the world.

america is ready to lead. we're not ready to follow, we're ready to lead. today we start that leadership. joe,s that how we need to approach this. weep need to stop leading from behind, start leading from the front, be the super power we are, be the leader we're supposed to be. this is not the way that fdr would have approached it, it not the way john kennedy would have approached it, it not the way that reagan would have approached it. so democrat, republican presidents throughout our history have always believed america america's. >> one sector is looking particularly bull esh. business before the bell is straight ahead. ♪ ♪ sometimes the present looked bright. sometimes romantic. there were tears in my eyes. and tears in my eyes.

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what are you watching this morning is it. >> we're watching retail, walmart and home depot both giants in the american economy. walmart is the worst performing member of the dow. the stock is down more than 30% so far this year. americans who spend on everything at walmart are going to the internet, walmart is having trouble competing. it's also been raising wages. home depot, on the other hand, is doing great. its same-store sales, up 7%, much better than the 1% or so that walmart is seeing because americans are spending on their homes and appliances and upgrading in that area. so it really is this tale of a lumpy consumer, which is recovering but being very picky about where they're spending their money. defense contractors did get a

bump yesterday. companies like northrop grumman, raytheon and especially northrop on this idea that governments may step up to fight isis. >> you go to best buy, you go to the places that in the 1990s and taking over all the strip malls in america and getting bigger and bigger and bigger, this is the u.s. economy. they wiped out hometown usa stores. they came in and got wiped out by the internet and it just keeps rolling on. >> you want a great index how to read the american economy? go by home depot parking lots. if they're full, things are going better, if they're empty,

things are going down. >> if that's the test, things are booming. and also in utah, home depots are always filled in utah. >> everything works in utah? >> everything works in utah. well governed state. >> we need to borrow some of that in connecticut. coming up next, as we again face the question of sending more troops to the middle east, one man's story is a reminder of what exactly is at stake. retired army general florent groberg sits down with us next. , go long. of course, how you plan is up to you. take healthcare. make sure you're covered for more than what just medicare pays... consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company... the only medicare supplement plans that carry the aarp name, and the ones that millions of people

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zchblt on his very worst day, he managed to summon the very best. that's the nature of courage. not being unafraid but confronting fear and danger and performing in a selfless fashion. he showed his guts, he showed his training, how to put it all on the line for his teammates. that's an american we can all be grateful for. that's why we honor captain florent groberg. >> that was president obama recognizing the nation's most recent medal of honor recipient, retired u.s. army captain

florent groberg, credited with saving his fellow soldiers' lives after tackling a suicide bomber when serving in afghanistan in 2012. thank you for being with us. it's a great honor to have you here. i'm always struck by these ceremonies and how solemn they are but how solemn the recipient is. you have to be sitting there obviously with mixed feelings is hanging a medal around your neck when you think of all the other money and women that you served with. >> it's one of those things, you're front and center and you're being recognized for the worst day of your life, and you have all the gold star families right in front of you, you have all your teammates to your left and you're overcome with emoogs and you don't know how to really react.

>> what was your feeling there yesterday? what were you feeling? obviously in the shadow of some terror attacks on friday and what we've been following in the news over the past several weeks. >> the world we live in. this is one of the biggest reasons why i joined was 9/11. i just honored to be given an tonight to wear the colors and wear the uniform and go out there and do my part and just, you know, in the actions in paris, the terrorist attack in paris remind you why it's so important to have our guys and girls serving our country in the armed forces. >> mike. >> captain, you wear the medal of honor, our nation's highest award. you also wear something else. you have a bracelet i noticed. tell me about that. >> it's -- you know,

brotherhood. and it shows you that -- i'm sorry, i'm trying to get it out of here. it's stuck with the uniform. this is something i wear every single day. i received from my platoon sergeant, sergeant first class brink. it represents three of our guys we lost on august 8, 2012, major griffin, major gray and major kennedy. it's a reminder that every day i don't live my life just for myself anymore, that i have a responsibility that, i have to be better and that i have to honor them and their families because i was given a second chance. and if i could go back and if i could do more, if i could trade the medal, if i could change places with them, i would do it. it's just a constant reminder. >> captain groberg, we live in a time where trust has collapsed in nearly every institution in the country with the exception of the u.s. military. what is it about the u.s.

military from a core values perspective as you wear the nation's highest award for valor, what is it that you'd like to say to the american people about the institution of the united states military at a core value level, why it's so respected against all these other institutions that have lost respect and esteem? >> we all do the same thing, we all raise our right hand and recite the oath and dedicate our lives to the mission. whatever the mission is, we are all wearing the exact same uniform every day. we're unified. we're brothers and sisters. we'll do everything just to make sure that we all get to come home. so it's just that brotherhood aspect it have behind it. and you have all these values, as you mentioned, the core values, integrity, selfless service, courage. and it's one of those things. to me it is the greatest organization because in the end

what i did and what my guys to my right and to my left did permitted me either to come home or not come home. i'm responsible for their lives, they're responsible for my lives. i trust them with my life and they trust me, you know. and not being 100%, being complacent, we might not come home so it's unacceptable. so you have to be the best every single day. >> can you talk about the moment that you had to make the decision to tackle the suicide bomber? we've spoken with other medal of honor recipients before and they talked about how it was almost on instinct. you had a split second to decide whether to try to tackle the suicide bomber or not. can you talk about the process of making that decision? and was it like other medal of honor winners, something you didn't think about, something you had been trained to do and

acted on on instinct? >> you just answered it. there's a threat and you got to get rid of the threat. you react. you trust your training is going to allow to you do the right thing. in my case, it just happened so quick. you're talking about the entire incident in 30 seconds. in this case specifically with the suicide bomber, 8 seconds from the moment i make eye contact with him until the moment he detonates. you have to really trust in yourself you're going to do the right thing at the right time and you just react and you trust that the training is going to show up and it did in this case. >> captain, it's an honor to you have here. thank you for being with us and thank you for your service. that does it for us this morning. "msnbc live" is going to be picking up coverage after a quick break. cts the funds and manages your portfolio. is it run by robots? no no, you can talk to a person anytime.

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as we begin the 9 a.m. hour and before we get to jose diaz-balart in paris, let's start you off with the latest terrorist news, it does not originate in paris. it has to do with the