the russians, the french, and us. can three great countries beat one caliphate? let's play "hardball." >> good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington, wondering if all the words from the west will bring on a serious assault from isis. russia knows what it's facing, the evidence is in today. isis blew up its plane, killing all aboard, a deliberate act of war. frns knows what it's facing, over 100 killed, in a sheer act of wanton murder. americans know what's up. after all, it was our crazed invasion of iraq that created this demonic force known as isis. so the question is whether all the power of moscow, powers in washington will find a way to smash this caliphate the size of indiana. let's begin with the latest from paris and msnbc's richard lui. richard, over there, talk about

the second suspect they're after over there. >> yeah, good day to you, there, chris. we have new information, unconfirmed by nbc news, of a ninth individual. we do not know whether that is actually factual. however, the news agency is saying that this ninth person coming from a spokeswoman, from the prosecutor's office, that is involved in the case. but when we got up this morning, here in paris, it was eight individuals, as you know, over the weekend, it was seven, and then they increased it to eight. so that's the latest in terms of that potential ninth individual. this, perhaps, the yield of us getting close to now 300 anti-terror raids across the country. and with that sort of data coming in to them -- and just one note on that. it's not the sense that tuld get of door-to-door happening, ever time you heard a siren. that is not it, at all. although the number of anti-terror raids, here, chris, have certainly gone up. >> what about the chase across the border to the fugitive who got away. >> yeah, you know, we got a lot of more information on salah

abdeslam, born in belgium. the number eight individual that's involved in the attacks on friday. so what we have is a new picture of him. we also have new video of him checking in, perhaps, to get two new hotel rooms. that's the other new bit of information. two hotel rooms that were used as setup points, perhaps, staging points for the attackers before they reached these six attack points. we also have a new plea from his brother to come forward and give himself up. so, there's a lot of new developments in following salah abdeslam, although it is believed he has left. that information you're alluding to, as he moved up into belgium, and who knows where now. also, in addition to that, a third car involved in this, again, with those fingerprints, if you will, of this suspect they're looking for. >> thank you very much, richard lui in paris. nbc's ayman mohyeldin joins us now from cairo.

the question to ayman, thank you for joining us. you're over there. the thought of, for years, i was growing up russia and cairo had close relations until saddam came along and broke those relations under nixon. so are the russians coming to do this war against isis? are they really going to do it? >> well, they're certainly dropping the bombs for it. but there's still a lot of questions as to how much russia is behind this to really fight terrorism or to try to prop up be shar al assad of syria. there's no doubt about it, that russia has been trying to warm up some of its relationships, those historic relationships that you talked about, chris, that in the past, it had with arab countries. it's lost a lot of those other the last couple of days, when america filled that void. there are some that are speculating that russia is trying to get a foothold back in the region. it's trying to exploit the weak relationship there.

the takeover of power here, there has been an attempt by russia to try to start cozying up to the regime in cairo, selling it military equipment. but nonetheless, egypt is still a strong ally of the united states. whether or not russia can actually continue or sustain this for a long period of time, whether or not it can gain some of that political and diplomatic foothold in the middle east, that remains to be seen. i don't think a lot of people here in the region are expecting the middle east to pivot away from the u.s. towards russia anytime soon. >> well, my question is positive. i'm being optimistic here. given what happened in sharm el sheikh and the airport there, with doesn't egypt have an interest in weeding out the isis person, assumably involved in putting the plane down there at that resort city. and of course the russians have a tremendous nationalistic urge, i would think any country would, but especially putin, to show his potency right now, and go in there and blast away and really do some damage to isis. isn't all the cards in order now for some action by the russians?

>> reporter: absolutely. egypt has been complaining, saying for the past several years, it is suffering from terrorism, the kind we're seeing in paris and elsewhere. and they've been asking the international community for help as it tackles this issue of a militant insurgency. no one is expecting russia to carry out any military operations, but we heard from russia today, a sense of determination, that it is going to hunt these people down, and there is now a little bit of sympathy from a country like egypt, given the fact that russia just lost nearly 200 of its citizens on egyptian soil, that they are going to be very cooperative. they are very much cooperating on the terrorism front. there is that growing cooperation between russia and egypt. and jip is poised to continue its o military operations. i think people are reading between the tea leaves a little bit. they're saying, russia is involved to defeat isis, but is it also trying to pop up the regime of president bashar al assad. and when you get to that question, chris, that's when you start seeing that, wait a minute, saudi arabia, the united arab emirates and other countries who are determined to

see president assad go from power, they're going to take a step back and say, what is russia's real motivations here? and that's where you begin to have some questions. >> thanks so much from cairo, ayman mohyeldin over there. thank you. among the 2016 presidential candidates wi s wi candidates, the common theme in the wake of the paris attacks is that isis needs to be destroyed. >> we need to really go in there with very serious intent. not to contain them, but to take them out. completely. to destroy them. to eliminate them >> we should declare war and harness all of the power that the united states can bring to bear, both diplomatic and military of course to take out isis. >> i would launch a major offensive against isis right now. four bombs a day. are you serious? that's a public relations war. it's not a real war. >> build a coalition. take this fight directly to

isis. we bomb the absolute stink out of them. we can't fly a few stories. it's going to have to be an aggressive air campaign followed up by ground troops. >> you're only going to win this war if you go on offense. you'll never win the war from the air. we need 10,000 american forces in iraq, not 3,500. if we don't do these things soon, what you see in paris is going to come to america. >> i'm going to bomb the [ bleep ] out of them. it's true. i don't care. i don't care. they've got to be stopped. >> senator angus king is an independent from maine who sits on the intelligence and armed services committee, both. david ignatius is a columnist for "the washington post." gentleman, thank you. senator, first. i see an amazing picture the other day of the president and vladimir putin, head to head, literally, head to head, like this, with an interpreter there and of course, there's the picture. and of course, susan rice, our ambassador to the u.n., looking like they're talking turkey, for the first time, are we going to

be able to form an alliance of the united states, france, russia, and the other great powers to take down the caliphate? >> i think an alliance may be too strong a word, but i certainly think our interests are aligned. the russians -- your reporter had it just right. the russians have to really make a decision here. they either want to take out isis or they want to prop up assad. assad is kind of isis' evil twin. his brutality to his people is one of the things that brought isis in to being. so the russians are going to have to figure out a way and i think the talks in vienna are mildly hopeful to move assad out and then concentrate the fire on isis. clearly, the russians, the french, the americans, the gulf states, even the iranians focusing on isis, is going to make a world of difference in that fight. >> if we make a political decision that we can trade a recognition of a slow departure of the assad family from damascus in some way or another, it's handled, for cooperation on going after isis, then we still face, after the politics that

have been put together, the need for a land army of indigenous people. if a bunch of europeans and americans come to that part of the world, they will make the isis case, won't they? >> chris, that's exactly what isis wants. they want this to be a war of the west against islam. that would be sending our troops in there would be a gift. if they have to be muslim troops, they ought to be sunni muslim troops, and the sunnis in the region have to say, this is going to be our fight. because right now, they're letting isis define the brand around the world and it's bad for muslims everywhere. we're seeing that all over the world. so, you're absolutely right. and that's why, you know, i just think the idea of us sending in troops, not only do -- is it not a good idea from our point of view, but it's not a good idea if we want to beat isis. if isis is going to be rooted out of mosul and raqqah and those places, it's going to take people on the ground, but it's going to take people who are local people, people from that

area, muslim and sunnis. >> let me ask you about a disconnect. i'll start with david and get back to you, because you're a senator and you can do something about it. 4 million refugees from syria, four trained fighters, that have been trained. one in a million. why aren't we recruiting -- i'm not saying they have to all join the military, but off 4 million refugees, aren't there several tens of thousands of syrians who are willing to fight for their country and why aren't we recruiting them and training them? >> our question number one in the vetting process was, do you want to fight against president assad or will you just fight against isis? and syrians who have been fleeing the country, have been fleeing barrel bombs, have been fleeing attacks by the regime, they want to fight assad. they want a new government. and that essentially destroyed our train and equip program. there's another u.s. program -- >> why don't they fight both -- >> -- run by the cia. >> i don't see why they don't fight both. >> they should be fighting both. and that's what the cia force,

which is nominally secret, is doing. we're pumping a lot of money and weapons to -- >> for trained fighters. that's it. >> aside from the four trained fighters, there are some thousands of fighters who are working in this other program, and they're holding the russians and the syrian army at bay in the northwest of syria. but, absolutely, the idea of having this program and having so few show up -- >> let me get back to the center on this. the question comes, we have the bombing capacity, so do the russians, so do the french. we all know that. but the ability to re-take the country and have it build up another society to replace isis and replace assad eventually, don't we need to have freedom fighters on our side? and why done recruit them? why are we just becoming a world of refugees rather than a world that fights back and says, we're here to help you syrians retake your country. we're not here to help you find a life in the united states, france, or belgium. you have a country. go back and take it. we'll help you. why are we turning everybody into victims when we should turn them into fighters?

i don't understand this. 4 million refugees, four firefighters. it doesn't add up. >> well, i think you're right. i think david put his finger on it. when we were trying to do this so-called train and equip program, we were saying, you can only fight against isis, not assad. their primary enemy is assad right now. and that's where they're focused and that's why we couldn't get them to join up. but i think you're absolutely right. there are camps, i've been to them, in turkey and jordan, where there are thousands and thousands -- the second largest city in jordan is a refugee camp from syria. and here's where we could build that army. i think that ought to be one of our main priorities. because they ought to be local people, they ought to be muslims, and they ought to be fighting for their own country. that's where you get the will to fight. >> and people like this james jeffrey in "the washington post" today, he says, just go into isis country, the size of indiana, the caliphate, take it all back, and then we'll figure out who to give it to. well, we've been there before, and who we ended giving it to is

the shia, even though it's not their land, and the sunni hate us for it. >> i think that is the issue. these calls from these republican presidential candidates, bomb this and bomb that, and this is war. we need to make sure we know how the vacuum will be filled after raqqah is turning to rubble. who's going to be there? who's going to govern. and the truth is, i'm sure senator king knows this better an anybody. there is not yet a sunni force that could hold that ground after it's cleared. and that's what -- >> well, it would help, you know, when we went into paris in '44, we had the french with us, not a big contention, but we had the cleric and we had degal. they were with us, the free french army. the polish government was in compile, they went back and forth. i think we have to regain that sense of nationalism and the people who will really fight for a country, really fight for it, are those who are from it. and if they don't like living in syria, that's their problem. but it's their country! and that should be our primary mission, not resettling people, but getting them back to the front to win back their country.

that should be our national purple. thank you, senator angus king and thank you, david ignatius. coming up, the hot-button political debate here at home. what to do with the influx of syrian refugees. governors in more than half the states now say they shouldn't be allowed in. that's local politics. and later, the threat here at home. isis vows to strike washington. we'll talk to this city's police chief about what's being done to keep things safe here in the capital. "hardball's" coverage of the terror in paris continues after this. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet?

hey! how are you?g? where are we watching the game? you'll see. i think my boys have a shot this year. yeah, especially with this new offense we're running... i mean, our running back is a beast. once he hits the hole and breaks through the secondary, oh he's gone. and our linebackers and dbs dish out punishment, and never quit. ♪ you didn't expect this did you? no i didn't. the nissan altima. there's a fun side to every drive. nissan. innovation that excites. in a poll taken before the paris attacks, before, nearly six in ten americans, 58%, disapproved of the president's handling of isis. only 34% said approved. president obama also had poor marks on his handling of foreign policy overall. 57% said disapproved, 38% approved. we'll be right back. it's a great school, but is it the right one for her? is this really any better than the one you got last year? if we consolidate suppliers, what's the savings there?

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you know, i think we've got to not run off, you know, half-cocked here in an early stage. i think it's appropriate for a governor to stand up and say, i want to make certain, i want to protect my people. but we shouldn't automatically say, under no circumstances, never are we going to keep faith with america's values as a country that sets an example, as a melting pot. >> that's secretary of state john kerry. of course, warning anxious governors across the country not to run off half-cocked, as he put it, on the issue of admitting syrian refugees to this country. in the last 24 hours alone, governors in 31 states in this country have gone on the record saying they don't want syrian refugees in their states. nearly all the governors are republican, all of them have cited safety as their chief concern. >> i will not roll the dice and take the risk on allowing a few refugees in, simply to expose texans to terrorists.

>> i'll do all i can as governor of this state to protect the safety and well-being of iowans. i don't want people coming here without very careful vetting to make sure that there's no likelihood that they could have been radicalized or could be part of an isis operation. >> well, today republican speaker of the house paul ryan here in washington followed suit, calling for what he called a pause to the refugee program. >> this is a moment where it's better to be safe than to be sorry. so we think the prudent, the responsible thing is to take a pause in this particular aspect of this refugee program, in order to verify that terrorists are not trying to infiltrate the refugee population. >> late this afternoon, democratic senator chuck schumer of new york told reports he's considering supporting a pause in the program, but is reserving judgment on the question for now. the united states has already

planned to take 10,000 syrian refugees over the next year, i believe 65,000 over time. i'm joined right by one of the few who says he's comfortable admitting refugees to his state. jack markell of delaware. thank you for joining us. explain your positive position about refugees from syria. >> well, first of all, i mean an all governors, the thing we care the most about is keeping our people safe. that is a given. and so the refugees who come here from overseas go through the most secure, the most stringent review process that anybody who comes in this country goes through. and they have to go through it before they're allowed to cross the atlantic. i do, by the way, find it interesting that we're talking about syrian refugees when in the case of paris. my understanding is that virtually all the people who were perpetrators were either french or belgium citizens. and so are we talking about telling all french and belgium citizens or all french and belgium muslims that they're not coming? i've heard some presidential candidates say that we should only allow citizens.

so are we going to change what's on the statute of liberty to say, give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, as long as they're christian? >> suppose one of the people that come into your state, under your support, does go terrorist, does become a recruit, become a cell member. would you feel responsible for their actions? >> well, i mean, i think we would all -- >> no, you, personally. would you personally feel responsible, as chief executive, having advocated for the admission of these refugees into delaware, would you personally accept responsibility for their behavior? >> well, yes and -- let's remember, this is a federal. so all these governors -- >> but you're advocating it. you're saying, bring 'em on. you're saying, yes. you're coming on tv to say it's a good thing. >> because, look, these are people who are fleeing persecution. and i know everybody likes to believe these are all able-bodied, able-minded men --

>> who said that? i didn't say all of them. i said the ones who are, should be fighting. >> i'm not saying that you did and i understand your point. >> it's not a country of ceos and conscientious objectors. you'd stay here, or would you go off to australia if this country was threatened by a takeover? you'd stay and fight. why don't they? >> of course, of course. but the -- in order to get refugee status, you either have to have been persecuted. many of these people are women or children who were malnourished. >> there's two categories, by the way, governor, in support of your position. there are two clear categories. the one is people who have applied through jordan. they have gone through the paperwork and applied to establish themselves as threats, by sectarian action. they're all clean. but you see all the people in those boats. boat after boat of young guys in

their 20s, one after another, boat loads of just guys, just guys. wait a minute, what's this? what is this all about? and we've recruited four syrians. 4 out of 4 million we've recruited to fight isis and assad. four! it doesn't make any sense. in any culture, there has to be more than 1 out of 1 million that wants to fight for their country. >> i agree. but if people make a mistake. if they're equating refugees in europe with those who are actually being approved as refugees to trying to come to this country, totally different things and people conflate these. >> there's been a lot of conflation lately, like iraq after we were attacked by the saudi. thank you, governor. a quinnipiac poll taken in september before the attacks of last week showed that the majority of american voters, 58%, said that they believe that syrian refugees -- and this is back in september -- posed a threat to national security. when you look at trults by party i.d., there's a clear division

between democrats and republicans. 59% of democrats believed refugees did not pose a threat. i think these numbers, by the way, are all up, higher than we were after paris. i'm joined by steve schmidt as well as michael steele. both are msnbc political analysts. michael, you first. if you were a governor of a state, what would you be saying? >> i would be saying no. i take the paul ryan mention and amplify it. let's take a pause here. i have no confidence in federal government's confidence in its own program. i think that's one of the things driving this. irrespective of paris, polls reflect there was concern even before then about how this type of a program is being implemented and would be implemented. as you noted, chris, there are two categories of individuals we're talking about. the women and children who are clearly refugees, who are clearly in harm way and the young men who are coming in

separately on their own who aren't nearly coming in as persecuted and so forth. so that's the real pause here. and i think the 31 governors who said so need to be paid attention to. >> you know, steve, we've always had the conceit that in this country, people who come here from other parts of the world are assimilatable. they become americans. in france, you have to be french to be a frenchman. we know that. but now we're seeing in france, where people who are not assimilated, who may have passports with, but do not feel french, obviously, because they're killing french by the hundreds, are a problem. when you bring people in here fresh from syria, what do you know about their loyalties? maybe you assume they're refugees. what do you think? what do we think? >> chris, it's not just france. it's belgium, it's sweden, it's denmark, it's across the whole of europe that there are legitimate fifth columns in these countries of unassimilatable and unassimilated muslim men.

and that's not to say that every muslim is a terrorist, but it is to say that every terrorist who is acting in paris in bringing down the russian airliner does so in the name of islamic extremism. and we see a democratic party in this country that is so kowtowed by the sentiments of political correctness that they won't name the enemy, they won't communicate clearly to the american people, they won't acknowledge the threat -- >> why is it important that you say your terrorist enemy is islamic terrorists? why does that help -- >> radical -- >> how does it help the fight? >> it helps the fight because it is essential that we understand the doctrine that underlies -- >> of course we understand it. who doesn't understand it? >> this great violence. >> who doesn't understand it? >> so we need to -- >> i don't buy that. >> we need to understand it. general cici of egypt gave perhaps the most compelling

speech of any western leader in the same category of king abdullah's, talking about the necessity of fighting radical islamic extremism. that's what it is. >> well, why -- it's not about being kowtowed. you can call them anything you want. just call them 7.5 billion islamic people in the world many have nothing to do with this fight. they live niin indonesia, in pakistan, and not involved in this middle east fight that never seems to end. why do we want to point out their name. when we fought mus leeny, we didn't say the catholic powers of italy, we didn't get into their religion. why get into this religious thing now? i think it serves the interest of the other side. >> because the enemy is acting in the name of their faith. >> well, your -- >> i agree. >> you think we ought to call them -- >> you have to a call thing what it is. >> why? >> because they are using islam -- >> we know what they're doing. >> they're using the faith in an

extreme way. it is an extreme form of islam. >> i'm not against it for pc reasons. i think we're giving them what they want, which is an east/west war, which is what they're trying to kindle here. last word. >> every republican presidential candidate should be for the declassification of the 9/11 report, the 28 redacted pages that show the saudi involvement in 9/11. the funding of the radicalism, the wahhabiism that comes out of that country. and we need to understand the nature of this threat. >> let's bring in the fact that dick cheney kept our troops in that country for ten years and gave them a reason to fight. thank you, steve schmidt and michael steele. up next, protecting paris and protecting the u.s. capitol here in washington. security efforts underway in major cities across america. i'll speak with d.c. police chief, kathy linear. this is "hardball," the place for politics. no matter how fast the markets change, at t. rowe price, our disciplined investment approach remains. we ask questions here. look for risks there.

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let's get back to europe for the latest on the investigation into the deadly paris attacks over the weekend, as well as the security threat today in germany. nbc's claudio lavanya joins us tonight from brussels. claudio? germany? >> reporter: chris, yeah, well, there are some conflicting reports on what really happened and what the threat really was that closed the cancellation of that soccer game. well, first of all, the hannover police chief said there was some indication that there could be some vehicle in particular, very specifically, an ambulance, that contained some explosives near the stadium or inside the stadium. now, the minister then came out during a press conference and he said that there was some credible threes. there was a good reason to cancel that event. and it would have been irresponsible to continue with the soccer game. but he did not give out any particular details, saying that there was no explosives found, and that no arrests were made. he also said that he wasn't going to go into details about what that threat was. so not to upset the population.

that kind of non-answer is worrying in its own right, chris. >> thank you very much, claudia lavanya, over in europe. thank you so much. well, isis now stesz going to hit washington, d.c. and what is the nation's capital doing to prepare for such an attack? joining me now is washington, d.c. police chief, kathy linear. welcome to "hardball," chief linear. how did it strike you the last several days that isis put out word that it's headed to washington, d.c.? >> obviously, we are already under very heightened security posture anyway, because of what happened on friday. i don't think it changes too much the level of security that we're at here in washington. >> well, you know, the capitol was targeted, we all believe in flight 93 that was knocked down over pennsylvania. do you think it's going to be a hard target, one of the nation's iconic places like the white house or the capitol, or a movie theater somewhere? how do you prepare for all those targets? >> the way you prepare is not getting too focused on only

putting security or focusing your security around the last attack. i think in those major cities, particularly washington, d.c., with all the law enforcement resources we have here, when we change our security posture, which is always at a much higher level than many places, we have to cover everything. we can't focus solely on the last attack, because, you know, terrorists are going to pick, you know, areas where they feel like the security is racking in some way. so we can't be focused too narrowly on any particular target. >> you know, chief, when i first came to washington back in the early 70s, you could go anywhere. you could go drive past the white house and blow your horn and say, get out of office, president nixon, if you didn't like him, go into the white house, bob through any door you wanted to. is it going to get worse, more and more severe, the ability to move around in this capitol? >> that's the balance that we have to have in cities across

america. we have to be able to have very tight, very high-level security and do things that are visible and say, we have a security presence here and we are a hard target, without crossing a line that scares people or violates the civil rights. so i think that is a balance that local law enforcement has had to keep for many, many years, and we're going to continue to do that. >> do you have any resource needs that you haven't been able to get from the federal government so far? here's your chance to talk about it. >> absolutely not. i have to compliment our federal partners here, at least in the nation's capital. we get -- i was on the phone early friday evening with the fbi, i've spoken with dhs, consistently across the whole last several day. any resource that we've ever asked for, we've gotten. and they integrate with us. so, you know, there's a multiple layers of security here. some that you see and some that you don't and see i have no complaints. >> thank you very much. the much-respected chief, kathy

lanier of the metropolitan police of washington, d.c., thank you very much for joining us. >> thanks, chris. coming up, the attacks in paris have also changed the dynamics of presidential election here in the u.s. we'll size up who has risen to the occasion and who's been left behind when the "hardball" roundtable comes here next. "hardball's" coverage of the terror in paris continues after this. when it comes to helping you reach your financial goals,t taking small, manageable steps can be an effective... and enjoyable approach... compared to the alternatives. push! i am pushing! sfx: pants ripping how you doing eddie? almost there. small steps. is for advice, retirement and insurance, talk to axa today. take the zantac it challenge! pill works fast? zantac works in as little as 30 minutes. nexium can take 24 hours. when heartburn strikes, take zantac for faster relief than

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. welcome back to "hardball." french president hollande has vowed to destroy isis, of course. but are the french people in the mood for a war? are they ready to destroy isis? chris hayes is the host of "all in" and joins us now from paris. chris, when can you feel over there since we got over there? we can't see on television about the atmosphere of -- including

the atmosphere of people toward the media, that come into this country. >> well, i think people understand why the media is here. i don't think there's any sort of frustration about that. what i do think is happening here is a real difference between the reaction since the "charlie hebdo" attacks nine months ago and these attacks, and for a number of reasons, but mostly because i think the way in which the targeting happened sort of, the random cruelty of it, has really spooked people. and i think it's spooked people amidst what was already a huge geopolitical crisis on the continent of europe and france and in germany and netherlands and greece around the refugee crisis. and those two issues, as far as the investigation tells us, are distinct issues. in fact, an eu official saying everyone who carried out this attack were eu nationals. but those two issues, because they are looming, because the refugee presence has given a lot of fodder to the right wing

across the country, they are now to a certain extent infused in the minds of the populous. and you can hear things coming from french liberals what sounded like coming from american liberals post 9/11. that led to the launching of the war on terror, the patriot act, trillions of dollars spent. there is a political mood that is not dissimilar in paris right now, and it's a real question for the politicians here, the citizenry, and the leadership about what that gets channelled into. >> well, with thanks so much, msnbc's chris hayes. you'll be watching him at 8:00 p.m. tonight for more in "all in." we continue now to follow the latest developments in t 2016 race tonight. the terrorist attacks in paris have ignited the hawks and the hardliners in the republican party. we're seeing a flood of tough talk on the campaign trail. here's a sample. >> it doesn't make any sense that we should be allowing isis jihadists to come back to america with u.s. passports to attempt to murder innocent

americans. >> the statue of liberty says bring us your tired and your weary. it didn't say, bring us your terrorists, let them come in here and bomb neighborhoods and cafes and concert halls. it's time toic wh ic wic wha iw the flafl. >> when the president says, i'm going to bring 100,000 people in here from syria, they need to say, you do that and we'll defund everything including your breakfast. >> someone criticized me the other day, because they asked me what i'd do, and i said, i'm going to bomb the [ bleep ] out of there. it's true. i don't care. i don't care. they've got to be stopped! >> anyway, they say talk is cheap. who are the winners and losers in election cycles that's now dominated by terror politics? tonight's "hardball" roundtable, it's a great one. mark halperin and john heilemann are the cohosts of bloomberg's

"with all due respect." and ann, you first. i really think this is fair to just do this. it's a serious time. who won, politically, from this horror? >> well, starting on the democratic side, i think, certainly, hillary clinton emerges looking the most presidential, the most ready, the most in command of the facts. >> is that because we all, deep down, believe she's more hawkish than she often shows? >> that's certainly part of it. it's also that she just has the lexicon and the influenfluency e material. and we certainly saw that at the debate. bernie sanders couldn't wait to change the conversation away from foreign policy. so i think that side is clear. on the republican side, i think the middle of the field, actually, looks pretty good here. we've got marco rubio and jeb bush, both saying relatively reasonable things. they both back a no-fly zone, as does hillary, and they're not saying, quite as potentially

xenophobic things about syrian refugees as you're hearing elsewhere in the field. >> so who's hurting? bernie and ben carson? >> ben carson, just because he looks like he's been stumbling quite a bit. long-term, trump keeps winning by saying things that other people -- >> anyway, i'm surprised -- i agree with everything. what do you think happened? >> polls show that republican voters think trump is strong. think trump is decisive. thinks trump can stand up to our u.s. enemies overseas. >> if he was on the rebound before this, he was coming up. >> yeah. well, i think that's true. if you think about some of the things that chris hayes is saying. you look across europe, the rise of the strongman in a lot of western democracies right now, is another trump -- it could be very much part of that pattern. i think the idea of much of the republican establishment assumes that ben carson, donald trump, anybody who doesn't have any foreign policy experience is now going to be sidelined by this. i think that's crazy. the dynamics that have been roiling in the republican party are still there. and trump stands as well poised to take advantage of them, being

the strongman, being the, i'm going to bomb the crap out of them guy. >> nothing says tough guy like donald trump. he's loud and profane. let's hear more from him, if you can take it. >> here's what's going to happen. the lobbyists will come and see me, but i don't give a [ bleep ] about lobbyists, okay? but it's political bull [ bleep ], do you understand? true. it's true. >> how would you fight isis, mr. trump, if you're president. i would bomb the [ bleep ] out of them. i'm going to bomb the [ bleep ] out of them. it's true. i don't care. i don't care. they've got to be stopped. >> so, you know what, i've always thought that trump was, maybe mistaken about it, but he had a nationalistic message on every front. trade, immigration, of course,

the middle east. everything was sheer nationalist. nationalist with an economic covering. but it was really tribal. and i think he's reaching the white working class guy. this stuff is just catnip for him, this immigration issue of refugees coming here. catnip! >> it is, because he was there first and he shows he's decisive and it plays into his. we see with all these governors, clearly finger in the wind. >> the national parties of europe have always been there in the recent 20 years. and there's always like a national party that's going to be third, you know -- >> absolutely. >> they never quite win. >> no, but they can sometimes change the dynamics of those elections. and certainly, he would have been a third party candidate in america at another time. it's sort of shocking to see the way that -- >> he's running in -- look, he's made a part of the republican party a third party, really. and he's running as the leader of that. >> he's also lucky. >> nationalism, populism, xenophobia, they all go hand in

hand. and those forces have been offended in the republican party all this year. and this set of -- what's happening now in the world is only going to in a certain part of the republican party, only going to inflame those instincts. >> they're anti-hawkish and anti-interventi anti-intervention, but hawkish on terms of macho. it's interesting how he's killing that trump, beating the heck out of a country he doesn't want to get involved with. much more ahead with the coverage of the attacks on paris. "hardball" back after this. well, right now you can get 15 gigs for the price of 10. that's 5 extra gigs for the same price. so five more gigs for the same price? yea, allow me to demonstrate. do you like your pretzel? yea. okay, uh, may i? 50% more data for the same price. i like this metaphor. oh, it's even better with funnel cakes. but very sticky. now get 15 gigs for the price of 10.

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well, this week, hillary clinton will deliver an address outlining her strategy for defeating isis. that's coming up this thursday. our coverage of the terror attacks on paris and the political debate back home is continuing with "hardball," coming back. i am totally blind.

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it's an easy thing that you can say that you're going to do differently than obama's doing than clinton wants to do. and it appeals to all of the impulses that we were discussing here a little bit ago. i think though in the long-term, it's not going to be a tenable or attractive position for on the extremes that many of the republicans have articulated so far. >> and the states a lot of them represent i would think it would be more popular than you'd like to believe. >> for a short period. >> it's easy and cheap. these governors can be in favor of trying to ban refugees but have no legal ability to actually ban them. >> they can say we're not going to spend any money to put up tents or pup tents or prefab housing. >> i think in the long run, hillary clinton's position she articulated today was be vigilant, exercise a lot of vetting but still be the america we've always been, be open and

accepting and vibrant as an economy and culture, that's the winning argument for the long run. that's the winning argument. >> does it win in the tricky states? >> in the long run. be optimistic and not pessimistic. >> i think both on this issue and the isis issue, watch jeb bush. this opens the door back to him being an adult. there's not any other person willing to take the mantle of reasonable adult an as he is. being nuanced is not a great thing. in the long-term, the party may decide -- >> his position is very close to hillary clinton's. >> cruz says he's -- he's cuban-american. he's not completely anti-immigrant. trump is going to blow this anti-immigrant bugle. >> look at who the party's nominated in the past. >> the two the outsiders trump and carson, back to you, longer life than they would normally have. >> i think a totally different

characters. >> but does it give either of them more life. >> it gives trump a lot of life. in carson's case, it highlights his inexperience and lack of knowledge on foreign policy. >> it helps trump. >> will the trump get to february? >> it definitely helps trump and not carson. >> to get to february. >> beyond february. >> january, february. >> you're shaking up the cable news reporting right there. mark halperin, john heilemann and ann guerin. let me finish with two numbers that don't make sense when we return certainly not when you put the two numbers together. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. easier on yourself. that's right, the quicksilver card from capital one. with quicksilver you earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. so, let's try this again. what's in your wallet? they come into this iworld ugly and messy.

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the numbers that don't make sense certainly not when you put them together. the first number is four. that's the number of syrians we americans have recruited and trained to fight isis. hold on to that number four because now comes the huge question mark that comes with the other number. that other number is four million. that's how many syrian refugees there are, 4 million including all those able-bodied men we've seen aboard the boats to europe. so why the strange unexplained difference in the numbers? just four trained to regain their country? is there just one in a million syrians willing to fight for syria? is that the deal. >> is it? would just one in a million americans be willing to fight for our country if it were taken from us if it came to that? there are dred implications to the numbers.

they signal isis is not only winning the war for syria but taking the country from people who would rather leave for the west either that or no one in the united states is doing something to alter their decision making. we talk relentlessly how isis recruits members worldwide using social media. why aren't the fleeing people of syria doing that? why aren't the united states and other countries trying to build an army of the millions of people who have a birth right to the fight for that country. some asked here we can't ask them to fight for their country because they have families. tell those to the american family who have a member of their family on their fourth deployment right now. when we liberated paris, we had elements of the free french army fighting alongside us. is it too much to ask the syrians to fight for the right to free their country? besides, even if we the united states and other european armies is overthrew isis, we still have

to turn syria over to somebody. if we had syrians playing a rightful part in the liberation of their country, they would be taking it over. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right now. good evening from paris. i'm chris hayes on a day when the investigation into the brutal attacks here has focused on the response to those attacks keeps widening. a new threat shut down a huge sporting event in germany, a soccer stadium in hanover, germany was evacuated after what was described by german police as a credible threat 90 minutes before kickoff, a friendly match between germany and the netherlands expected to begin approximately at 8:458 p.m. angela merkel had been expected to attend the game. the match between france and england at wembley stadium nupd england went forward amid some concerns but british