he was waiting for the french police. we don't know at this moment if they are fighting the police forces. it's like the special forces in america. we call them the red. they are on site. they are exchanging fire with this individual. >> for those of us not as familiar with this area, with this northern suburb of sunday me, where is this in relationship to everything else that has transpired there in paris over the last few days? do standby for me. richard engle, the chief foreign correspondent on the line right now. richard thomas again, at this point all we have heard is that there is a large police operation under way. we have heard the gunfire.

where are you right now? >> i am in that suburb. it i am looking at a police right now. they have their guns drawn. they are wearing their flak jackets and tactical vests. i have heard several bursts of gunfire in the last few seconds, in fact. the police have surrounded the area. there was a helicopter in the sky that we cannot see but which we can hear. the police have flashlights. they have searchlights. when cars approach to mow the police are raising their weap s weapons. they are pointing there flashlights at the vehicles to tell them to back off. this does not appear to be over yet. some are starting to arrive now. the police are trying to create a court in. there is some gunfire. it very much seems like this is a raid situation that is ongo g

ongoing. i am looking at an ambulance right now. a police officer is telling me to get back. this is in that suburb just a few minutes outside of paris. we heard about these reports. it took us about 10, 15 minutes to get here. this is very close to the city. the police are once again shining their searchlights at the building trying to figure out what is happening in this raid and if there are other people in the area. >> again, for folks just joining us right now, it is just after 6:00 a.m. in paris, france. breaking news there more reports of heavy gunfire in the northern suburb of st. denny. richard engle on the phone right now. he can hear the gunfire. he sees the police officers there, what weapons drawn wearing tactical vests. he can hear a helicopter as

well. ongoing situation. richard, the associated press reporting this is most likely linked to a ninth suspect. any insight on that? >> that is very possible. we have not been in a position to talk to the police. they are very much involved in this operation right now. anyone who approaches them gets a flashlight in the face and a drawn weapon. all i am able to see right now is that there are dozens of police officers standing in the area with their searchlights. they have set up a quarantines. i can hear what sounds like one, perhaps more helicopters in the sky. in the distance, there are ambulances that have been brought in. i saw someone wearing protective gear that looked like it might be a member of the bomb squad. there have been, what i could hear my is two or three bursts of gunfire.

i couldn't tell if it was an exchange of gunfire, but i heard a few bursts, each one two or three seconds long about five and it's in between them. >> richard, what is this suburb like, and where is it in relationship to all that has been transpiring there in paris over the last few days? >> it is a suburb. it is right next to the main church, called -- it is not very far from central paris. when we heard about this report, which was about an hour ago, we quickly got into our vehicles and came here. it's the middle of the night w now. it's just starting to be early morning. there is not a lot of traffic on the roads. driving quickly took us about 10, 15 minutes to get here. it is a residential area. because of the time of the day, everything is closed.

there are no people on the streets except for the reporters now starting to arrive on the scene, being kept back by the police. it is a suburb, but almost like its own town, built up area, very much a commercial district and now very much the site of a police presence, police search. i can see the flashing lights in the distance of rescue vehicles. police now in front of me pointing pistols at a car, waving at him, shining the flashlight. he has an automatic pistole. you might be able to hear him screaming, stop, stop. the driver nervously turning around. another officer with a long weapon turning these cars, telling the cars to go away. the police trying to protect them selves, nervous that there could be someone else approaching.

now someone got out of the card. police are rushing to him. they want to know who he is. very possible he has no involvement at all, but police are not taking any chances. >> i'm not sure if this is discernible from your vantage point, but does it appear as if these special forces, as if these police officers have a print take a building surrounding them? do they have several buildings surrounding them, or can you tell? >> from where we are, we really can't tell. they are surrounding an entire neighborhood right now. i don't know if they are focusing on one particular apartment. there were reports earlier that they were focused on a location they were trying to raid, but now they are setting up a court in blocking off schedule several streets in the area. from what we can see, beyond that, there are flashing lights.

frankly, we cannot see anyone moving into a building let alone what is going on inside. >> as we talked to the chief foreign correspondent, richard engle, these are some of the images starting to come in from what is described as an ongoing situation. perhaps even a raid there. a suburb in france, son denny. it is a map of that area that we are talking about. we also have laura haim on the phone. the u.s. bureau chief. we still have laura on the ph e phone? laura, in the last few minutes that i have been speaking to richard, have you been able to gather any additional information? >> yeah. he have the confirmation by the police that this threat is related to the attack done on

friday in paris. we don't know who the target. we don't know at this moment who the police are chasing. we knew that there was a unit, three men, two of them are al e alive. one of them is dead. the french police were looking at this. we have the confirmation a few minutes ago that it is related to the attacks in paris. it is conducted by the front special forces. we call them the red. it is a very big part of the police. it's a military unit.

each time there is a terrorist act in france, you have them on site fighting the terrorists. >> laura haim on the phone telling us that -- attacks in paris friday night. richard engle still on the phone. richard, has there been any more developments on the ground with regards to the gunfire and the helicopters? >> yes, regarding the helicopter. we could hear a helicopter. now we can see it. the helicopter is hovering over a church. this is all developing in a square by the church or the helicopter is hovering in the sky with a very bright searchlight it is shining down into the street where the

activity is taking place. there are still many police in the area. they seem to be holding their ground. they are not running. they are not rushing into any buildings. even the police we can see seem to be moving in a fairly casual way. i don't know if that means this is over, by any means, but they are somewhat less tense than they were even 15, 20 minutes ago when we got here. but this could be a while. this could be a long time. there are a lot of buildings. dents, built up area, residential area. there must be -- just from what i can see, several dozen police officers here. all of them armed and dressed in matching tactical vests. i can see someone in the distance wearing a helmet,

wearing protect of closing. they are sealing off this area and making sure nobody comes in and nobody comes out as they continued their search. >> are there guns still drawn? >> they are not drawn at this moment. they are holding them by their side. like i said, this is not quite as intense as it was when we arrived. but that could change. when these officers were approached by a car that was moving quickly that wasn't responding to their commands, several of these officers, half dozen or more, rushed up toward that car, guns drawn. the car backed away and the situation returned home again. at this stage, we are not seeing them running or charging into buildings. . even as i scan the streets, they do not seem to have their sons drawn. they are not in an aggressive posture. >> there are reports -- these

are not reports that confirm, but there are reports that police officers may have been hurt in that ongoing raid. do you see the emergency vehicles? any reason to believe that officers have been injured? >> i cannot confirm that. i have seen those reports reported on news sites and social media sites. we did see an ambulance, but i don't know if that is a precautionary measure or if it is because someone was injured. but, yes, we have seen ambulances. one would assume that it would no longer be here and would have moved on. i have seen those reports but cannot confirm. >> our chief foreign correspondent, richard engle, on site there in the suburb in son denny. this is video that we are getting in of this ongoing raid

this appears to be one of the police officers there in paris conducting a search of some sort there on a vehicle or do we still have laura haim? is she still with us? >> yes, i'm here. >> laura, i want to go back to what you just mentioned. three meant arrested? is that correct? >> no. we are not reporting that. you have people conducting the operation and you also have people not on the ground who are following it. the operation is did by the red. are a i.d., it's the kind of special forces.

one person inside, we cannot independently verify that. two people have been targeted, and two people currently have been killed by them. we cannot confirm that. it is a police person. we said that. the french newspaper is going with that. he is going to be able to tell you what is happening on the side. i just want to tell you that the people we have on the side confirm that there has been a lot of gunfire. the police is confirming that it's completely related to the attacks which happened in paris on friday.

>> again, 4:40 local time. all of this started -- it's about 6:15 in the morning there in paris. all of this has been going on for nearly two hours in this suburb of paris. again, it's important to note, laura haim giving us some information that they are getting from reporters on the ground there. those reporters telling her that this is in fact a raid related to friday's attacks in paris that two people were targeted and two people have been killed. there are unconfirmed reports on the ground that a number of officers, a number of french officers have been hurt. heavy gunfire in this northern suburb of son did he. that is where the start the

française located. richard engle telling us that he has seen a few dozen officers wearing tactical vests surrounding fairly dense area. you are looking at the streets there as the sun begins to come up. you can see a number of these emergency workers there on the streets. jim cavanaugh, msnbc law enforcement analyst joining me on the phone right now, retired atf special agent in charge. jim, again, much of the day has been spent talking about a ninth suspect and again right now it appears as if, again, a lot of this information just coming in, but it looks like law

enforcement believes that they have closed in or are closing in on another suspect related to the attacks on friday. >> that's right, craig. in your discussion with laura and richard earlier, describing the whole scene. it looks like the french national police and special tactical team have honed in on some of the wanted suspects from these vicious murders and probably engaged them and they were armed. these special tactical teams are not going to unleash a barrage of bullets like we heard, that you played and that richard engle described. these guys operate very tight. special forces, they don't shoot unless they have a target that's armed. there was quite a bit of gunfire there. it might have been an exchange of gunfire with a couple of the terrorists. richard's description of how the outer perimeter was relaxed and laura's report that two suspects

may have been killed may have all played true. we will see if they can confirm it on the ground. richard's description about how the outer perimeter calmed down quite a bit -- the inner perimeter is different. >> let me pause for just a moment. i want to listen into some of this amateur video we are just getting in. take a listen. [ speaking french ] >> we thought there was some audio there on that video. apparently there's not. that was amateur video that we just taught. this is a look on the streets of sundanese. you can see these officers with his weapon drawn. you can see a number of emergency vehicles in the area.

>> we had reports, i don't think we have confirmed them, but laura talked about police officers. four police officers died at the box on theater. these are dangerous operations for the police. these were two of the people they were trying to track down. very well could have gotten in a run battle. we know all the other actors were suicidal. it blew themselves up in the operation the other day. if a corner and thethese guys, like the carracci brothers, once cornered, they go into their suicide act. that may be what we have seen here. richard is on the scene and can gather some of those for us. laura's reporting as well. it looks like they got who they

were looking for. there was a gun battle and the officers prevailed. but maybe some officers were injured. >> laura, you still with me? >> yes. i'm still with you. the mayor of this neighborhood just spoke with us, actually. he was telling us that they have been invited to stay home. he is also telling us that the situation at this moment is a tense situation, that it could take a long time, end of the quotation. on the other hand, we have the police force. he is telling us that some policemen have been injured. we don't know how many policemen have been injured. also, that apparently two to three men are inside an

apartment. two to three meant, according to a police officer, still alive and fighting. again, i just want to warn you, they were not inside. they are talking to us. the mayor of this neighborhood is also talking to us. richard is on the site. he is seei. he is seen better than me. >> laura, just to recap him i want my want to make sure that everyone understands what we are talking about here. according to the recording, there is a standoff. there are two or three men inside an apartment and they have a number of policemen injured. is that accurate? >> according to the 24 hour news channel, it is a stand -- it's

completely -- a standoff the tween police forces and persons in an apartment. the mayor talked to us and told us that the people living in the neighborhood are invited to stay at home. everybody, according to the mayor, is awaiting for a very, very long night, end of the quote. >> any reason to believe, are you getting information with regards to whether these two or three men are in fact the ninth aspect the police have been looking for today? >> we don't know, but it has been confirmed to us by really reliable sources that what is happening at this moment is completely related to the attacks in paris. >> jim cavanaugh standing by with me as well. jim, if you have two or three

guys hold up in this apartment, is the thinking that we want to take them alive so that we can get as much information as we can out of them, or is it that they are so dangerous and that they have demonstrated what they are capable of, that it's better safe than sorry and you go in guns blazing? >> there is no tactic to go in guns a blazing on barricaded suspects. if there are barricaded suspects suspected of being terrorists, as is a very good situation for tactical teams to handle. they can handle it very well. they will back the perimeter off. richard is probably back at the second outer perimeter. they are hunkered down. they will try to communicate. people talk about, you can't negotiate with terrorists, but

you always try to negotiate. it you never know. they might be suicidal and kill themselves or come out guns blazing like the carracci brothers, but when you say you can't negotiate, that lies to history. people are released. hundreds of people died in those places and hostages were held, but people were released. if you are dealing with hard-core terror suspects barricaded in their, it's going to be a long, slow process. the pleats don't want to charge up as these guys may have suicide vests. they had to deal with that at the theater. they have tools. they have gas. they have different ways to make them come out. if they do come out, they will lose the gunfight. they will give them a chance to surrender, craig. they will talk to them, call them on the phone. there is always the danger of

fire, them lighting the apartment building on fire orb rolling up the device. the unknown we don't know right now is, could there be an innocent in their? that changes the whole dynamic. could there be an innocent person that is not a terror suspect? we just don't know that right now. >> for the viewers and listeners coming up on 12:30 on the east coast. that is coming up on roughly 6:30 in paris when we came on the air. we could hear the gunfire, sporadic and fire their in a suburb, a northern suburb. that is where -- this is video that was posted on twitter. not confirmed just yet, but it captured the gunfire that started just after 4:30 local time. according to our friends at france's canal plus, there is an

ongoing standoff there. two to three men are essentially hold up inside an apartment. there is a large police operation that is under way that is ongoing. richard engle is on the phone with us just a short time ago. he described a scene of officers with guns drawn. you can see on the left side of your screen there some dark video, but you can see the officers. you can see the officers there milling about. tactical vests, surrounding a dense area. there was a helicopter in the sky. this is an ongoing situation that according to a number of reports is connect did, is connected to the events that transpired in paris on friday. i am joined by former cia officer jack robins. jack, what do you make of all of this at this point? >> as i have been listening, i

think my biggest interest at this point is if you can get these guys alive, you want them. the reason you want then is because if there is one cell, two cells, you don't know what kind of it and tell they have. you want to get access. what this special agent mentioned as well, and this is important to realize, we don't know if they have hostages. we are aware that at least previous ones were more than willing to blow themselves up. you are trying to protect your officers as much as possible. they are very well trained tactical officers. they know how to play. at the same time, they are very aware that they can bring them out alive, they want to. but they will not sacrifice their own people in the attempt to take them out. that is a pointless endeavor. they can wait. time is on their side. it's certainly not on the side of the guys in the building. >> if you can see in the mind of these guys, two to three people at this point.

two to three men, two to three people holed up inside this apartment. they have presumably been watching the news over the last few days or reading the newspaper or on the internet. they know folks are looking for them. what might they be thinking and how might that affect their behavior? >> the real question now is, are they prepared to die? have a essentially sacrificed themselves? they knew this was coming. this is just the inevitable. if this is the inevitable, that changes the outcome, at least for the special ops teams because what we have are people who recognize that the end is coming soon and they are willing to take as many people as possible. the other option, and this is it, you never know what can happen. we have seen this in parts of the world where you think that you can't negotiate, but there's

a possibility that you can. as the numbers dwindle, as this goes from six to eight, ten to three, to mark or less, you have people -- you have somebody who is alone. that can change the person to say, wait a second. maybe i'm going to reconsider what's going on here. you can continue to chip away at some of them. maybe you can convince those people to come out. remember, one of the things that is important here mow one of the motivating factors may be, hey, give them the soap box. let them say why this is. maybe is to motivate them to say, i am trying to understand what you are doing and why you are doing it. help me understand. explain to me what it is you are trying to do. it really work through that with them. for some people love that is what this is about. you may be willing to kill

people, but you are also willing and trying to convince people of why that is happening. you want them to talk to you about that. that is the lever that you pull. maybe that is the proverbial wedge that you use to drive them to do what you want them to do. >> as we have this conversation, we are looking at the streets of sundanese. these officers, helmet clad. at one point you could see weapons drawn there. we are told that this is a large police operation that is linked to friday's attacks in paris. laura haim with the france's canal plus is still with us. i understand you have new information. >> yeah. i can confirm to you, which has been confirmed to us that two obese men have been injured and that authorities -- we also have

people who have left their apartments were evacuated, according to one of the mayor -- one of the people walking by the mayor. some people are fully traumatized by the raid going on in this part of the suburb in paris. >> laura haim telling us at this point that two officers have been wounded in this operation. again, that would jive with what we are seeing from some other operations. reporting that some officers have been reporting hurt. four officers were killed at the theater when one of the suicide homers detonated his belt. again, 6:30 in this suburb.

i continue to look at these pictures on the streets. we heard from richard engle a couple moments ago describing a fairly chaotic scene when he arrived. gunshots, helicopter above. seeing officers with their weapons drawn. essentially interrogating people there in the streets. we have heard over the past 15 or 20 minutes. according to laura haim, there are two, perhaps three men essentially hold up in an apartment there and the associated press is reporting that it is all connected to the ninth suspect. the ninth suspect we have been hearing so much about over the past 24-plus hours. again, i believe we still have jack with us on the phone.

you still with me? >> i'm with you. >> we have two officers who have been hurt so far in this operation. there is this ongoing standoff from a tactical standpoint here, what are your options? >> i think your options are to go in on the offensive. we are more than aware that at least previous ops by these terrorists themselves, they were more than willing to kill themselves. they could potentially "boobie" trap all sorts of things. we don't know what access they have. going on the offense isn't necessarily the way to go. they did to some degree because they were responding. we do have to come in with that. again, at the same time, they do have time to court in the area off. that second player keeping everybody else isolated. but then to continue to chip

away at the people inside. we don't know what kind of connection they have, what kind of situation they have. we don't know if they have eygu on the ground. we don't know what they can see. that's part of the problem. part of this is about trying to establish that, trying to make that contact and trying to convince the bad guys, so to speak to much either give themselves up or to give more intelligence to the special ops units so they know where to go next. does that mean they can ramp up and go in? absolutely. if there are innocents in there and if they don't, they will go in. i think that is what they are waiting for. they are waiting for the opportunity if they can go in. they will not do it if it makes things worse. it's so difficult at this point because they can sit and wait, but it could get worse. that's the role of the dice two

laura, i know that we talk and as soon as our conversation ends, you get back on the phone. at this point, do we knew whether there are conversations being had between law enforcement and the suspects who are barricaded in that apartment in northern paris? >> no, we don't know. it has been confirmed to us by multiple sources that it's quite violent and that the raid is involved. the rate is a very important thing. it's a special operations unit. it's a very, very experienced unit, part of the french police, that have been taking care of terrorist activities happening in france, specialized in

hostage situations. it's a kind of special forces unit inside the french police. they are extremely experienced. when you here and have the confirmation that two people part of the police side have been injured, it's basically two experienced policemen that have been injured. you can imagine how violent it has been. another element for you is that according to my sources, the exchanges of gunfire began at 4:30 local time. it went on for 15 minutes. it ended at 4:45. it was extremely violent for 15 minutes, between 10:30 here and 10:45 eastern time, and then it stopped. and then it went back again 40

minutes later. it was then more violent. again, i'm not on site. i'm sure richard engle could tell you more about what is happening. it is still an ongoing action. >> laura, do stay with me here. again, quick question for the control room. the images we are looking at w now, is this a live feed? >> that was for the control room. that is answered me. we are showing live pictures from this northern suburb in paris. you can see, and you have probably seen that past few minutes emergency vehicles whizzing by, sirens blaring. we also just saw a number of the special forces that laura was just describing in the seats --

streets there. this point reportedly at least two of these police officers, the special forces officers have been wounded. at least two. there was a heavy exchange of gunfire when we came on the air. almost 45 minutes ago we heard that gunfire. this is all part of an ongoing special operations raid. we are told that this is definitely related to the attacks on friday. we do not know if any of the suspects have been taken into custody or shot, but we do know at this point, at least according to a number of agencies, including our french tv station as well in addition to canal plus, we do know there are two, perhaps three of the suspects holed up inside an apartment. our chief foreign correspondent, richard engle, remains on the scene. richard, what can you tell us? >> most of the attention does seem to be on one reticular building, one particular

apartment come it seems. i am watching the police shine their searchlights in the laser pointers onto this building, lighting it up. but i have not seen any driving to that building right now. they are on the street. they are sealing off the area. they are focusing their attention on this one loving, but not charging that building. they are urging people to stay indoors. i saw one fairly small group of people, a family or two being moved away from the scene. >> i believe we just lost our connection with richard. >> just wearing his underwear and wrapped in a space blanket. i don't know exactly who they were. they were taken away by police.

they were men, women, children. they did not look like they were the subject of this raid. they look more like families, but they were being taken out of this area. but mostly people are being told to stay indoors. aside from the police, and a fairly large group of reporters assembling here. no peophere. know people on the streets. >> has the gunfire subsided? >> i have not, since i lost spoke to you about 15, 20 minutes ago, i have not heard any more gunfire. >> richard, what more can you tell us about these special forces who are apparently behind this raid? >> well, from what i can see right now, they seem to be highly trained. they are here in large numbers. you have the reporter from canal plus telling you more about

their background. they are a terrorism unit specially trained for this operation. but by looking at them i can tell you that their posture is still tense. in no way wild or you're responsible. they are not pointing there guns. they only raised them when someone tries to approach. aside from that, i can only tell by looking at them that they seem to be here. they seem to be serious and here in large numbers two richard engle on the ground in this suburb of northern paris. as we watch all of this unfold, you can see several dozen of these special forces on the streets. laura hames still joined me on the phone as well. u.s. bureau chief for france. laura, any -- >> from what i would like to

tell you more about this unit because it's really important. it is to serve lives without regard to their own. it is to conduct special operations involving counterterrorism and hostage situations. for some of us who follow what is going on in the world when you are french, you always want to do a story about the raid he cut his it's really an elite part of the police. a lot of very big operations in france that have taken part in over 1000 operations. they have liberated over 500 hostages.

they have arrested over 1,000 suspects. they killed the 15 terrorists sent their creation. they are very specialized in very sensitive situations. they are specialized in a school with these kinds of situations. there were also on friday deployed in the theater during the attack. >> the most elite of the elite with regards to special forces there in paris. i believe that would be an accurate assessment. >> yeah. they are very courageous people. they can be deployed all over the world. they were in bosnia. i did a lot of stories with some of them. they are extremely courageous.

they are really a kind of elite force inside the french police. they were involved in a very, very important operation in 2012 with a terrorist called muhammad may half. he killed in cold blood jewish children at 8:00 in the morning. he then barricaded himself and did a standoff for almost two days. the raid was involved in this operation, which was extremely violent. a lot of people inside the police in this moment in france are wondering if not today, this morning in france, in a kind of other situation, where you are going to see heavily trained

terrorists inside an apartment ready to die, waiting for the special forces to come, ready to show that there is a war going on between two worlds. >> and at this point, according to reports, your own reporting, two of the special forces have been injured in what appears to be an ongoing raid. i believe we have video of the early moments, some video and some sound. again, this is some of the sustained gunfire you were just talking about. talking about. take a listen. [ gunfire ] several of the targets hit

. >> again, that was the scene about two hours ago. 4:40 local time. we are told that shots began to ring out. heavy gunfire. the northern suburb, where it is located. that was a scene two hours ago. this is the same street. you can see a number of emergency vehicles moving about. you can also see a number of what we would call emergency responders. you probably saw the helmet-clad special forces that we have been talking about, some of whom seem to have their weapons drawn. let me bring you back into the conversation, if i can, jim cavanaugh. do we still have jim? >> yeah, i'm here. >> we have the suspects right now, two, perhaps three holed up

inside an apartment. what would the conversation between the suspects and the special forces operations, what would that conversation sound like? >> well, it may not have started yet. i can tell you what it would sound like. what the commander is doing now is containing them. they are moving slowly because what they are trying to do is get them into the smallest space possible. they are in an apartment. they want to make sure that's the only place they are. there is no egress for the people in the apartment. the second thing is they want to know who is in there. is there an innocent? it changes the dynamic for the decisions of the on-scene commander if there are suspects or innocence involved. they will contain them. now, they will try to talk to them. they will also be watching with their rifleman and their scopes should they try to go to a

window and tries to fire at the officers. they will quickly be killed. you don't see the officers, you don't hear a lot of gunfire because they will not be given a target. tactical teams dealing with barricaded gunman, and i have dealt with barricaded suspects. you slow it down. time is not always on your side. time is neutral. you have to be able to read it when it is on your side and when it's going against you as the commander. right now they are reading time is on their side to contain it. they will go in there and just try to start a conversation, are you okay? let's talk about what's going on. >> what we don't know is whether there are any hostages inside that apartment. laura hames, you have new information for us? >> i have some information confirmed to me, a man working

for a news channel. also from sources inside the raid talking to us about several dead among the terrorists, but one terrorist could still be alive, at least. that is what they are telling us, that there are several dead people among the terrorists. at least one terrorist will be still alive inside an apartment. >> several dead? >> several dead among the terrorist. one of the terrorists alive, at least one inside the apartment. >> does that then mean that we are no longer talking about two or three inside an apartment, perhaps it's just one ins i this apartment? >> we don't know that.

again, we just have this quote. you have to understand that some people are giving us some quo s quotes. >> sure. >> again, they are talking to us like you do in your report. we have long relations with t m them. they give us some information. we are not inside the apartment with them. >> this special forces members who are injured, is that still at two? >> two policemen injured. yes, it has been confirmed to s us. >> is the raid much is it continuing right now, or has the gunfire subsided? is this a quiet standoff, so to speak? >> that i don't know. i am not on site. i cannot tell you that. i really don't know. >> okay. >> let me bring jim cavanaugh

back into the conversation. jim, if there is now one of these suspects who is dead, how then does that change the equation? >> right. you might have one alive and two dead or any combination if there were three or four people in there when these special operators engaged in them. it doesn't mean that the guy that is left is not still suicidal and not still homici l homicidal. one of the signatures of isis is they want to kill. they are there waiting to get the chance to shoot at one of the french police officers as much as they want to die in martyrdom. they are true believers. isis is a death cult. they do want to murder. they could be waiting to murder. a negotiator could get a chance to work with them. terrorists are human beings. human beings can be talked to.

time can, you know, work against their decision-making. suicide always has some ambivalence. you are really working uphill against the suicidal, homicidal terrorists. but that doesn't mean you wouldn't try. the police are not going to storm a barricaded terrorist after they have had two injured officers and lost four the other night at the theater with suicide vests because the sky could be in there with a suicide vest as well, but they will wait. they will talk. if he shows up on the window, he would be killed by the long rifle team. if he decides to charge out in the fashion of the carracci brothers or if they put gas in 2 the apartment and force them out, he will be killed as well and the officers won't be in danger. was he is in there without any hostages, maybe some dead confederates are to surrender suicide or to large out and be

killed. but the police have a static situation now. they are dealing with it. they have it contained. they are preparing. they are not in a hurry. time has swung from being neutral to a little bit on their side. they are leveraging that. they are making the decisions that on scene commanders make. they will try to talk to them because they have no reason not to. it sometimes it's difficult to establish that communication. it can be done on the phone, cell phone, on the bullhorn, by an officer yelling up the stairway. we don't know at the moment. >> laura, are any of your reporters on the ground or any of the sources there in and around paris, have they said that anyone has been taken into custody? >> yes. again, the situation is moving

very, very quickly at this moment. what we know and what we can consider is that the raid was extremely violent. a policeman is telling us that there were extremely surprised by the violence of the fighting when they arrived. so we confirmed several people have been injured. it's still going on. the suspects, several suspects holding up in an apartment. we have an unknown number of officers confirmed injured. that is what we know at this moment. the situation is moving, and the situation is still going on. >> several dead, is that accurate? >> i don't know.

when i cannot double-check something, i prefer to tell you i don't know. >> we appreciate your honesty. we really do. again, right now as we are having this conversation live in sundin nate, coming up on 7:00 in the morning there. again, for those of you who may be joining us, heavy gunfire in this northern suburb. at this point we can tell you that a number of agencies are telling us that this is a large police operation that is linked to what happened in paris on friday. heavily armed police have been conducting this operation for a few hours now. archie form correspondent, richard angle, is on the ground and in the neighborhood. he described a force about an hour ago, a scene with sporadic

gunfire. there was a helicopter that was flying above periodically he would see officers with their weapons drawn questioning people there in the streets wearing their tactical vests. you could see officers wearing their helmets. we have seen a number of these emergency vehicles whiz by. laura haim, the u.s. bureau chief for canal plus, they also have a number of reporters on the ground telling us that several police officers have been injured. meanwhile, there are, according to a number of reports, at least one suspect, perhaps several suspects holed up inside an apartment. chris gms thing is also on the ground for us there. chris, where are you in relationship to where all of this is happening? >> so i am in the center of

paris, craig. what you are looking at is obviously in the suburban area of saint-denis, which is where the stadium was where those attackers blew themselves up on friday night. french television is reporting on this, obviously. one report they said that is gunfire, this heavy gunfire and the raid went on for 20 minutes, obviously waking up people throughout the neighborhood. it is just coming up on 7:00 in the morning here. the city in this area is just starting to wake up. late last night we went out to survey the scene, essentially, of various locations with an american who has lived in paris for a long time, to get a sense of the difference and feel in this city. it is still very much a city on edge. the usual places where he thought there would be a little more activity, there was not.

we saw some at some of the tourist areas peer there were people at the eiffel tower even though it was closed last night. there continued to be a pretty steady stream of people, particularly where there is a huge memorial that continues to grow. we will wait to see as people wake up this morning and turn on their televisions and the news spreads throughout paris about this very violent encounter and what is an ongoing police situation, whether it makes the people of paris feel better or adds to the unease that they have been feeling. craig. >> as we have been having this cumbre station, chris, what appears to be a number of reporters heavily armed officers

in this neighborhood, part of an ongoing police off nation of sums toward. we are still getting in information. at this point we really can't confirm a whole heck of a lot other than that there is an ongoing police operation in this suburb. the associated press reporting that this is probably linked to the apparent ninth suspect. our friend, laura haim, with canal plus, telling us that this is definitely connected to the attacks on friday. also telling us that a number of officers have been injured as well. laura, you still on the line with me? >> yes, i m. we saw and we heard the sustained gunfire that started

around 4:40 local time. it appears right now that the gunfire, at least, has subsided. is that accurate? >> i cannot confirm that to you. i just know that, again, according to my sources when they arrived on site, they were extremely surprised by the violence, by what they faced. they arrived early in the morning, around 4:30 in the morning for 15 minutes from 430 two to 4:45, there were heavy gunfire. then it stopped. then again the gunfire erupted. elite french police were trying to get where they were coming from. they confirmed to us that it is directly related