one alive. that was the reporting earlier. police were reporting that through the sources laura had. now we have a report of dying i- with a suicide vest. that maybe, we're not sure yet, but could be all three and might coincide from what richard found from the witness. so one or two could have been shot by the snipers and then somebody detonated a suicide vest. of course this could be a location of just a hide-out, or it could also be a location where they have facilitated some of the terror from as well. >> let's reset the scene for your listeners who might just be joining us here, 2:00 here on the east coast. it's 8:00 a.m. there in paris. i will show you the scene right now that unfolded around 4:40 a.m. local time there. this is a northern suburb that is just north of paris, take a

listen at what went down. [ rapid gunfire ] [ continuous ] >> so, again, that was the scene about 3 1/2 hours ago there. then a short time ago, maybe 30 minutes or so, we're told, a short time ago, there were several more explosions, and i believe we have some video of those explosions. again, this is in the same neighborhood just north of

paris. [ gunfire or explosion sounds ] >> we're told those explosions, six or seven of them, not far from where the initial explosions that we showed you, not far from where those took place. and again, all of this very close to the soccer stadium where there was so much carnage in paris on friday. again, at this point, we can tell you that according to our reporter on the ground, who's been following all of this very closely for us, laura haim, u.s. bureau chief for france's canal plus. two officers are hurt, two

suspected terrorists are dead. the target of all of this, abdelhamid abaaoud, the mastermind of what went down in paris friday night. at this point, one of the outstanding questions is whether he is still alive, or whether he is dead. we also at this point don't know whether there is an operation that is still ongoing. from this vantage point it certainly looks like while it's not as busy as it was, is certainly looks like it's an operation that's continuing. i believe we have laura haim on the phone there, do we? laura? >> at this moment, almost over. >> the operation is almost over. laura, is that because police believe they have their man? >> i don't know. we don't know. the french minister is tweeting

that the operation is almost over. we don't know if it's completely over. officially she's tweeting that and she just did an interview with some of my colleagues on the french radio to repeat exactly what she was tweeting. we know that, again, two terrorists are dead. among them, one woman who blew herself up with a suicide belt. that's what we know. also, there were two or three police officials who have been slightly injured. and these people who were living in this part of this neighborhood has been evacuated. that's what we know at this moment. >> do we know laura, and again,

i know this is a very fluid situation, do we know the circumstances surrounding this woman who blew herself up wearing the suicide vest, or the suicide belt? was she inside this apartment holed up? was she on the street? do we know any more about those circumstances? >> we have some details. she was inside the apartment. i was not witnessing that. i think we should wait a little bit before going into details about what happened when this woman blew herself up. i can just ensure you that she was not killed by the police, but she had an explosive belt on her, and she blew herself up. the other thing that i want to say is that the authorities believe that the mastermind of

the last week's attacks in paris, was maybe in the building. that's what we heard from the british who conducted the raid. i don't know at this moment. i don't have any information about what happened to this person, the mastermind of the attack in paris abdelhamid abaaoud. he was among the target of the raid, and it has been confirmed by the prosecutors. >> but we don't know whether he was actually in the building, that's what you're saying? >> correct. we don't know -- we don't have any detail at this moment about the suspect. we just know that he was the target of the assault. >> was there anyone taken into custody? >> yes. there were some people taking

into custody. again, i think we should wait. because we don't have the precise figure about people who have been taken into custody. >> the french minister, who is on the radio a short time ago, speaking with your colleagues, indicating that the raid itself may be nearing -- >> she tweeted it. >> oh, okay. >> she completely tweeted it and then she did an interview with this french radio. but she tweeted that -- she tweeted four minutes ago, precisely, that -- precisely five minutes ago, she tweeted that this raid is almost over. >> do stand by for me if you can. again, i know you continue to work the phones and work the sources. our viewers at home, looking at

a very different scene from just a few hours ago. the sun is up there in the suburb. you can still see these heavily armed officers who appear to be milling about in that last shot. in this particular shot, you can see officers there at a distance. this neighborhood, laura, is it going to be on lockdown for the foreseeable future? >> we don't know. i mean, again, this is another terrible thing for the nation. the nation has been completely traumatized by what happened last friday. people are trying to say, we have to live normally. we have to go to the restaurants. we have to make sure that everything is going to be fine. and then this morning, it's 8:00 in the morning in paris. people are waking up and they're discovering that outside paris, it's a war zone. another war zone, with a woman

wearing a suicide vest who exploded herself. suicide bombers don't happen in france until now. they didn't happen in france before now. and again this morning, it's another story about another suicide bomber. this time it's a woman. it's going to be another very, very difficult day for the french society. >> let's go back to malcolm nance now, veteran u.s. intelligence officer, also authsor of the new book, "defeating isis." malcolm, this report that it was a woman who blew herself up, inside this apartment. a woman who blew up her suicide belt, her suicide vest. again, these are -- we should note again that these are early reports. we are waiting for official

confirmation here from french authorities, but if that turns out to be the case, what then does that tell you about where we are in this fight against isis? >> well, it tells us something very significant. the battle line activities that you would usually see ramadi, baghdad, mosul, raqqah, have now been moved to the front lines of france. to a certain extent, welcome to my world. this is exactly what we saw in iraq. as a matter of fact, there's some significant information here with the information that there was a female suicide bomber. in iraq -- al qaeda in iraq, now isis, pioneered the husband and wife suicide bomber team. and it was interesting, because most female suicide bombers wore belts, and male bombers would wear vests, or what we call chest-rigged explosives. so all of this is consistent absolutely with how they fight there. and what they've decided to do is bring those battle tactics,

these personnel to france and move the front line up there. i think one other thing is that the french forces are being extremely cautious right now, because obviously at some point, they made a breach on that building and as they were breaching, this is what u.s. forces faced for years, a suicide bomber steps into the hallway and uses themselves as an anti-personnel weapons system. but another technique they use is what we call the house-born improvised explosive device. which is where they rig the entire safe house, or safe room, with the intent of blowing it up and dropping the entire building on an assault force. we lost dozens of people like this in iraq. so the french police are going to be extremely careful about having that place cleared and ensuring that all the terrorists ardead and making sure that the place isn't designed to act as a suicide device itself.

>> so it sounds like what french authorities are likely doing right now, essentially making sure that this building and the perimeter isn't booby-trapped? >> well, yes, that's right. or that there's not another terrorist inside. interesting about this location, we need to determine, certainly from the intelligence perspective, is this just what we call a bolt hole? is this where they went to in a hasty retreat away from where they're at? >> a what? >> a bolt hole. this is where they run to when they were being pressured by being moved around from other places. or was it a primary safe house where they actually planned the attack and brought their explosives and weapons to paris and were using it as their main operating base? or is this a bomb factory? is this the place where they actual constructed the explosives? if it's either of the two, a

bomb factory or primary safe house, it makes it extremely dangerous and more likely that the place has been rigged as a house-born explosive device and there's still a possibility that the place could detonate, and that's why the french are being extremely cautious about this. >> french special agents on the ground right now. they've been on the ground for a number of hours here in san diny as the sun has come up, just after 8:00 there, almost 8:15. abdelhamid abaaoud, the suspected mastermind behind the attacks on paris, friday, he was the target of the raid. at this point we don't know if he's alive or dead. we'll continue our special coverage after a quick break. this is msnbc.

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being able to work in the community that i grew up in, customers feel like friends, neighbors and it makes it a little bit more special. together, we're building a better california. welcome back as we continue our coverage of breaking news in paris right now. you are looking at the streets of saint-denis where two suspects are dead, three

arrested, in a raid. reportedly there was a woman who blew herself up. the outstanding question right now, though, is, abdelhamid abaaoud. is he alive, is he dead? is he one of the folks who was killed in this raid that has lasted for almost four hours now. it started, we're told, at roughly 4:40 local time. a series of explosions, sustained gunfire. roughly an hour ago, there were six or seven more explosions. but again, according to french officials, the operation itself is nearing an end. it may very well be over right now. laura haim, the u.s. bureau chief for france's canal plus, who has been very instrumental in getting information to our viewers and listeners tonight. thank you for that. what more can you tell us right now, laura, and if you could, just perhaps reset the scene for

folks who might just be joining us. >> yes, absolutely. there was an assault which began in saint-denis, which is a neighborhood outside paris, at 4:30 local time. it went on for three hours, and at this moment, we don't know if it's over or not. the french minister of justice just tweeted eight minutes ago that it was almost over, but we do not know -- at least i don't know if it's completely over. what i can tell you is, during this very violent assault, between french special forces conducted a raid, there were explosions, multiple gun shots. two terrorists have been -- two terrorists are dead. among those two terrorists who are dead, one woman, wearing a

suicide belt, blew herself up. it has been confirm by the police. there were also three people arrested. we don't know who are those people. and three police officers, part of this police elite force, the red, have been injured. that's what we know at this moment. the stand-off happened in the north of paris. it's going to be a shock for the french people, waking up at this moment. it's 8:30, in paris at this moment. there was a cell, with a woman wearing a vest and exploded herself in front of police people. there were a lot of explosives,

according to our sources. so it was again, maybe another cell, at least some people inside an apartment with a lot of explosives. >> persons or people taken into custody, laura? >> yeah, we have several people taken into custody. three people, according to my sources. >> okay. chris jansing, who is roughly 20 minutes away, again, in central paris, where folks are waking up. they are going to work, they are going to school. and now most certainly word is starting to travel that yet another suicide bomber, this time a woman, has blown herself up in their country. >> you can only imagine what it's like to live in saint-denis. first you had the horrible situation at the stadium on friday night. and now in the middle of the night, you're awakened from your

bed and you have what happened here tonight. we do have a couple more eyewitness accounts here, craig, from our folks on the scene in saint-denis. these are quotes from neighbors in this apartment building where all of this took place. alexander lives on the street next to where the operation played out. he said, i was sleeping, i heard the noise, the shots. realized it wasn't fireworks. i opened the window, i didn't see anything. so then i came down to the street. i saw police on rue de la republique, then the cops told us to get back. then he heard both the series of shots that we have heard on our air and the explosions. he said between 4:30 and 6:30, there were a lot of shots. he describes this as mainly a muslim neighborhood, but everyone is calm and gets along. and he added, a terrorist can live anywhere, i guess. his name is alexander, he's 28

years old, he lives this that neighborhood. there has been here on the streets of paris, a pervasive sense of unease, obviously since friday, since all of this happened. you can imagine mixed emotions this morning as people wake up and see this, first of all, as laura haim has been reporting, you know, another violent situation. and a woman with a suicide vest, but on the other hand, if it turns out that they have indeed captured and potentially killed the mastermind of this operation, there may be some relief as well. and i just wanted to add to what our experts were saying, craig, and the fact that even if this is almost over, even if the terrorists now are either captured or dead, that there may be still a very dangerous situation. this reminds me of a situation i covered in the united states. you'll remember the theater shooter in colorado, james holmes. >> absolutely. >> when they went to his apartment and it was

booby-trapped. now, this was not a professional bomb-maker. this was not someone who had expertise, but who had gone online. and if i remember correctly, he used a fishing line to booby trap his front door, and police had to use a bomb robot to go in there and they found jars of gasoline, jars of napalm, it was specifically wired so that if police went in there, it would have blown them up. and so, i would just add to what our experts have said, the possibility that if this was indeed some sort of safe house, and these obviously are people with some level of expertise, with explosives, potentially even the bomb-maker, that they still have on their hands a dangerous situation that they're going to take very cautiously and very carefully. >> chris jansing for us there in paris. and again, we continue to watch these special forces officers on

the streets, wearing their helmets, wearing their vests. many of them still have their weapons drawn. we have not seen any of these emergency vehicles move out of the way since we started our coverage here several hours ago. but word from french officials that the operation itself, this particular operation, appears to be nearing an end. we are going to take a quick break here. when we come back, much, much more as we continue our special coverage here on msnbc.

approaching 8:30 here in saint-denis, this is a northern suburb of paris. reportedly two suspects are dead, three more have been arrested in an early morning raid there. at this point we do not know whether one of those dead is abdelhamid abaaoud, the suspected mastermind behind the attacks in paris on friday.

laura haim remains with us. she's on the phone, the u.s. bureau chief for france's canal plus. do we know the condition of civilians in the area? >> no, we don't. they have been evacuated. what i can tell you, the operation, the raid, is still ongoing. and so far, we have two suspects dead, two terrorists dead. among those dead, a woman who blew herself up. according to the police, two people have been arrested, and three officers wounded. also, according to the police, one or two suspects are still inside an apartment and the raid

the french police elite force is talking to one or two person, two terrorists inside an apartment. >> so just to clarify for our viewers right now, at this hour, there is still one, perhaps two, suspected terrorists still holed up in this apartment, correct? >> correct. and the police are saying that it's still going on, which is really interesting. because ten minutes ago, the french minister of justice was tweeting that it's almost over. according now to the police, it's still an ongoing operation. so this is quite interesting. the police, he's saying that two people have been killed in the operation where suspects holed up. >> what more if anything do we know about this woman who blew

herself up? >> we know that she completely blew herself up. that she was wearing a belt full of explosives and she blew herself up, apparently very quickly. we don't have a lot of details about that. we just know also, and it's confirming at this moment, that it was extremely violent when the raid began at 4:30 local time. it was really, really violent and apparently there were bullets all over the places in the setting of some neighborhood living close to the apartment where the terrorists was. so it was really violent. what is absolutely fascinating in a way, and i'm really mesmerized by that, like probably a lot of french, to see

that it's definitely a place where you have a lot of explosives, where you have another suicide bomber, this time a woman. and apparently the people were having -- with them. they were heavily, heavily armed. so, again, i can confirm that the police is saying at this moment that two suspects are dead, including a woman who exploded herself. >> we know that this is, according to a previous guest, this is mainly a muslim neighborhood, we're told. what else can you tell us about this particular part of paris, this suburb of paris? >> it's a very sensitive part of paris. you have a lot of problems.

paris is with a zip code of 75. and there's a zip code for saint-denis which is 93, and a lot of people don't want to live in 93. it's a sensitive neighborhood. you have a lot of problems with drugs, unemployment. despaisparities between the communities. it's difficult for the police to walk inside this neighborhood. it's a neighborhood that basically when you go to visit paris, you don't go there. and it's really a neighborhood which is on the edge, and it's part of the problem involving radicalization of young people living in france. so it's a very sensitive neighborhood. >> again, i know it's very early, laura, and the information is fluid. do we know at this point whether any of the dead suspects or any of those who have been taken into custody. do we know whether officials

believe they were directly responsible for what happened in paris on friday? or were they perhaps tangentially involved? >> no, the police said that the target of the raid in saint-denis was abdelhamid abaaoud, the militant suspected of organizing the attacks of paris. we don't know anything about who the people killed were. we don't know anything about this woman. but it's a very interesting element, because to the best of my knowledge, and to the best of the knowledge of my sources, it's the first time that the islamic state is using a woman to explode herself, and that's a very important element in the story. again, this is a big thing to have a woman near paris wearing a suicide belt, who exploded

herself. it's really, really a lot of tragic event in the life of france. >> stand by for me, if you can, laura. i do want to bring in malcolm nance, veteran u.s. intelligence officer, author of the new book, "defeating isis." and again, just for folks who might be joining us now, 8:30 in this northern suburb in paris, of saint-denis. at this point, according to our reporters on the ground there, at least two suspected terrorists have been killed. three of them arrested in this early morning raid, that is apparently still ongoing, according to laura haim. there is one, perhaps even two of these suspects still holed up in this apartment right now, having conversations with

special forces there. we do not know whether the target of this attack, the target being abdelhamid abaaoud, the mastermind of what happened in paris on friday, the guy behind it all. we do not know if he is one of the folks who was killed. if he was one of the folks who was arrested, or if he might be inside that apartment in the suburb, but again, we can tell you, according to our folks who were there on the ground, and according to our folks who have a number of sources attached to the french military apparatus there, the security apparatus there, this is still an operation that is ongoing. malcolm, let's pick up where laura left off. this idea that we now have female suicide bombers in paris, what does that tell you about where this fight against isis is right now? >> well, what it does, is it

shows that isis is bringing all of their battle tactics that they use in iraq, syria, egypt, yemen, and you essentially have baghdad in paris right now in the saint-denis area. we've seen suicide bombers overseas in other countries. suicide bombing in turkey earlier this year, carried out by a female suicide bomber for isis. and we certainly have seen them in iraq and syria. but to bring that to paris, their operational cell, the terrorist cell that they assembled there was 100% a suicide bomb team. they had no intention of anyone surviving any of these attacks. the very fact that they actually may have separated this group, may have been to carry out future attacks or to prepare the safe house for other terrorists. but they were always prepared to kill themselves in the end and to take police with them.

>> malcolm, how surprised are you at the speed with which french authorities, law enforcement, and otherwise, the speed, if they have their guy, and again, it's very early, but if this turns out to be the raid that led to the capture or killing of the suspected mastermind, of the speed at which all of this was carried out, does that surprise you? >> it doesn't surprise me that they -- that the french with the entirely of france's law enforcement resources and military resources in finding this person. from the intelligence perspective, they have enough manpower to literally put an agent, a surveillance person on almost every street and corner, front and back in saint-denis. they're going to be shaking down every one of the doors that they suspect anyone's in.

these hundreds of raids that they carried out, it's just a magnificent display of, you know, of law enforcement and gum-shoeing, so to speak. on the other side, there's an entire secret component in the french national intelligence, the french national police, the gendarmarie nationale. all of these agencies have put their assets together, and that's what this mission, before the raid group will come to a target, there will already have been covert and clandestine intelligence officers surrounding this facility, surrounding this safe house, confirming that, and then they bring in the heavy teams. set up their snipers and then go in, kick down the doors. unfortunately, that's where we're going to have injuries, because that's where the suicide bombers generally attack, when you do your -- so it was a magnificent display of law enforcement and operational assaults carried out by france.

that's certainly true. >> malcolm nance wrote the book "defeating isis." it's a new book. malcolm, do stay with me if you can. do appreciate your insight. >> sure. >> we're going to take a quick break. we'll pause, and when we come back, we'll update you on where things stand now as we approach 9:00 there in saint-denis.

grppiood morning to you, i' craig melvin. welcome back to msnbc's continuing coverage here. two suspects are dead in saint-denis. three more have been arrested. one of the suspects, a woman who blew herself up using a suicide vest. that's according to laura haim

with the canal plus. also according to the associated press as well. a raid that started at roughly 4:40 local time, and this is how that raid began. [ gunfire ] >> so that was, again, roughly four hours ago there, and then within the last hour or so, there were six or seven more explosions at the scene of the special police raid. [ explosions ]

the sun has come up there in and around paris. you can still see officers heavily armed, on the streets of saint-denis as they approach 9:00 there. you can still see a number of law enforcement vehicles, a number of emergency vehicles. we've seen these vehicles moving about for the last four hours here. we're also told, according to some of our reporters on the ground there, and folks who are talking to a variety of sources that this is an operation that has not quite ended. it has not ended because reportedly there's still at least one suspect, perhaps two suspects, still holed up inside an apartment. the big unknown right now,

abdelhamid abaaoud, the mastermind, the guy who is behind all of the carnage, all of the destruction that we saw on friday in paris, he was the target of the raid. at this point, we do not know if he is alive, or if he is dead. chris jansing is about 20 minutes away in central paris. she joins me now. and, chris, let's start by talking -- i know you have some information on some eyewitness accounts, but let's start for folks who might not be as familiar with this guy abaaoud. what do we know about him? >> well, we know that if he is actually in there, police have their sights on him, or if he's been killed, this would be an extraordinary development. he's someone who has been the target of intelligence services for a very long time now. really since he joined isis back in 2013. but most intensively over the

last year or so. let me just give you a timeline, craig, of how focused police investigators have been on him. it was actually thought that he was killed in syria last fall. and when his family got word of it, middle-class family. his dad is a shop-keeper in molenbeek in belgium, they actually celebrated. they gave interviews saying how glad they were, that they didn't know what had happened to him, that he had become so radicalized. so it was believed and his family certainly seemed to believe that he was dead. then there was a tracking, according to "the new york times," they have sources that say police tracked his cell phone to athens and that led to a major operation that was very public. again, on a safe house in belgium. that happened in january. two of his colleagues were killed. but, again, abdelhamid abaaoud slipped away from police.

he was not there. so he is someone who has been behind a series of terrorist operations, leading up, obviously, they believe, to what happened here in paris on friday night. such a story, as somebody who started out as frankly a petty criminal, and somebody who hung out after a short prison stint, with known drug dealers at a local bar in belgium. and i think it's worth noting, as we reported earlier, that one of the eyewitnesses that was interviewed by richard engel said in that actual apartment that they were going to raid, was known to be the apartment of drug dealers in that neighborhood. so all of that sort of ties together as we look at what is happening today and still waiting to hear whether or not

abdelhamid abaaoud is indeed someone who is in there. you can just imagine the terror. first of all, the incident at the stadium, which is a short distance away from this very residential neighborhood, near the town square in saint-denis. already so much upset from the suicide bombers who went to the stadium on friday, but now you have gunfire ringing out, you have these explosions that happened. and one of our producers spoke to a 43-year-old woman who was holed up in her apartment with her neighbors. her name is veronique hano. they're in a building directly across from the operation. so they're in there. they're hunkered down as all of this is playing out. she's absolutely terrified. she was crying. she was panicked. this is her quote. there were explosions at regular intervals. we heard everything. we heard shots. it's terrifying. we locked ourselves in since around 4:00 a.m.

we heard so many booms i'm shaking. we are very scared. i can't stop crying. we won't go near the windows, we are too scared. we are stuck. what if something else explodes and affects us? i'm very scared. so they're staying away from windows, away from lights. they are waiting to get the all-clear. and as we have been reporting, a number of people had already been cleared from apartments in that neighborhood, brought to the town hall, to a secure area, as all of this was playing out, and this is a city that will be largely shut down today. all the public transportation going in and out of saint-denis, according to the mayor, has been stopped and schools are closed today, craig. but the scene there, as you can imagine it from inside an apartment from someone, a city, an area in that case, a suburb town, that was already the target of terrorists, so on edge. to go through what they went through in darkness, in the middle of the night, it's almost

hard to comprehend, craig. >> that woman's account, unfortunately, probably a sentiment that is being echoed by lots of folks waking up in paris this morning. chris jansing, thank you so much. i'm also joined right now by msnbc law enforcement analyst and retired atf special agent in charge, jim cavanaugh. and, jim, as we have watched this scene play out here in saint-denis over the past four hours or so, what has struck you most about this operation. again, we should note here, this is not an operation that is over completely. >> right. well, i think the textbook operation and deployment of the french special forces police is very good. they've had some men wounded here, maybe some women wounded. but the textbook operation really. they're in a gun battle. they seem to be winning that gun battle. they killed the terrorists. they back off, they isolate, they contain, they evacuate the

neighbors and then they slow it down a little bit. we have this female suicide belt person who kills herself. so, i think they handled it perfectly, just the way a tactical team would. craig, you reported a few minutes ago, that maybe the were talking to the terrorists inside. i don't think that would be unusual at all. i mean, these guys probably are going to plan on dying. they'll talk, they want to talk. they want to tell you their twisted philosophy. they live in the sixth century. they're a death cult and they believe that fervently. they're going to want to talk about it and tell you why everybody should die when they want to kill them. and all the things and objectives of isis. they're not necessarily silent. that doesn't mean they're going to surrender. but they could very much talk to the police for a long time and it could happen for quite a while. i wouldn't be surprised to even see an exchange of some food go in there, or some food left, and

they'll talk for a while. doesn't mean they won't in the end commit suicide or charge out at the police, shooting kind of like the co-achy brothers did after hebdo. abaaoud, to have an operational commander who can come to -- who's a belgian national, who can be in belgium, in france, and pull a cell together of eight people, nine people, who are all totally suicidal, that's a lot that goes to the horrific success of a terrorist operation, that all the operatives are suicidal. they don't have to plan an escape. there's no worry about being captured. there's no fear that the police are going to storm the theater. because they're all completely suicidal. it's a very powerful weapon they use, and to have eight or nine of them in the heart of france,

to have an operational commander that's likely directing a small logistic cell that gets the rides to them to go to the theater, to go to the restaurants, to have hide-outs, to maybe bring the bomb-maker in, to get the smuggled weapons from belgium, an operational commander to pull all that together, that's really, really bad for france and europe, to have a guy like that loose. so if he's in there, we don't know, craig, but you've talked about extensively and chris brought up his history, that's a very big and important fact to take out a person who is an operational commander of these terrorist cells. isis hasn't really exhibited that in europe before. i mean, this is kind of their branching out, like malcolm nance talked about, yeah, they do that stuff in syria and iraq, but, boy, this is a whole different game. and if they're branching out with that kind of capability, it's really a game-changer.

>> jim cavanaugh, thank you, as always, for your insight. it would be nice from time to time to talk to you on television, where there's not death or destruction involved. unfortunately, it feels as if every time we get together to chat it's always surrounding something like this, sir. >> i agree. i agree. our heart goes out to everybody in france and the brave french police. what a great job. >> jim, thank you. and again let's reset the scene for folks who might just be joining us here, the very early hours here on msnbc of wednesday morning, the scene started 4:40 local time. there was this sustained gunf e gunfire. [ gunfire ]

>> that went on for roughly 15 minutes, we're told in saint-denis. that was the beginning of what would turn out to be a police operation, a special forces operation that still continues. you can see the live pictures there on the left side of your screen. hundreds of officers swarmed the streets there in this community, mainly a muslim neighborhood, we're told. there is, right now, one, perhaps two suspects still holed up in an apartment, according to laura haim, the u.s. bureau chief for france's canal plus. we know at this point that there were at least three people, three people, who were suspected terrorists, who were killed. at least three -- excuse me, two suspects dead, three more

arrested. several officers, at least three officers were wounded during the operation. there was a woman who was wearing a suicide vest, who with apparently blew herself up as police moved in, a mass evacuation that is still very much in place there. there are no people on the streets in saint-denis. we expect that to be the case for the foreseeable future. the outstanding question, what we do not know right now, as we approach 9:00 there, almost 3:00 here, we do not know whether abdelhamid abaaoud is among those who is killed. we'll continue our special coverage here on msnbc after a quick break. stay with us.

>> and welcome back, everybody. 3:00 in the morning here on wednesday morning on the east coast. our msnbc coverage continues on these live raids here in paris going on just north of paris. i'll give you the headlines here, we'll get into the details in just a moment. we have two suspects dead, three people have been taken into custody, and three police officers who have been injured at this point. this all started as a police raid early this morning outside of paris in a suburb north of paris called saint-denis. this is close to where the stade de france is, where the france/germany game was happening on friday night when the attacks happened. early this morning, urn the