ongoing active shooter operation in the city. and according to the apa, malian army commander says about 20 hostages have already been released. let's go right now to nbc news correspondent ayman mohyeldin live in brussels. he's, of course, been following the latest developments there very closely. but also the latest developments in mali. obviously, ayman, this has been a war-torn country for some time. a heavy french presence after you had the islamists take over the country in 2013. what can you tell us about the country and why we're seeing another massive terror operation there? >> it's important to emphasize we still don't know the ident y identity. a lot of turmoil over the past several years in 2012 when the military in that country carried

out a coup against the president, and shortly after that, the country saw an immediate split. you had a group of rebels in the northern part of the country, some affiliated with al qaeda in the maghreb which is the al qaeda affiliate that operates mostly in the western part of africa. they began a rebellion and began to take over the northern part of the country. it was at the time a very disturbing scene to see mali split up that quickly, right after that military coup. that prompted international condemnation and led the french government at the time to lead a series of military campaigns to help dislodge some of those rebels from the northern part, some of those islamist militants from the northern part of the country. they managed to successfully do that. but at a cost for the country. we've seen that over the past several years, despite the fact that the north has come back under the control of the central government, there are still a series of attacks that take place as a result of some of those militant groups that are operating in the north just this past march, many militant group

attacked a popular restaurant in the capital that killed at least five people. so this is a country that has had a tesch length past, particularly with al qaeda affiliated rebels in the northern part of the country, joe. >> ayman, do you know how much of an american presence, how much of a european presence there is in the capital and in mali in general? >> well, and mali in general. >> we have a general picture, not sure how many were at the hotel. we can tell you here's what we hear from official news media and state. there's a chinese presence in the country and chinese hostages at the hotel. that's we also know there were at least six turkish employees aftof turh airlines as well. there are some eyewitness accounts of those that have been

released that said there are westerners, foreigners inside that hotel. in terms of the big picture, we know france has about a thousand troops on the ground in that country. we also know that the united nations has an active mission that is headquarterered. the area where this hotel is west of the city is very close to a lot of government ministries, government buildings. it is very common for a lot of these diplomats, government agencies to meet at hotels like this. this is considered a luxury hotel so it would not be at the time this raid took place or attack took place. it would not have been uncommon to see or hear western officials perhaps businessmen that the hotel. we also know that the dutch government has 450 troops as well in mali. by most accounts there's a foreign presence particularly in the capitol which makes this time that much more daring. the fact they've been able to go into the heart of the

government, government ministries and take over the hotel with about 140 hostages. it's going to be extremely troubling news for the government. >> all right. thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. let's go now to nbc news senior white house correspondent chris jansing live in paris. of course, chris, you've been there covering the attacks that happened there a week ago tonight. what's the latest there? >> there's a lot going on. let's start in netherlands where authorities are on heightened alert. police detained three people parked in their car. the car gave officers reasons to further investigate. they're not offering why or the identities of the three people. we're learning more about the suicide bomber that blew herself up in wednesday morning's raid.

she's the first o fill appreciated with isis. her name has not been officially released by french authorities. the mayor of the town where her father has lived since 2005 tells nbc she was born in a north western suburb of paris in 1989, that was when her family moved to the region in the 70s and there's these photos that have been out there causing quiet a sensation frankly on social media from dailymail.com. she's a modern young woman taking selfies. there's another one of her in a bubble bath wearing only a necklace. her brother told the daily mail she had no interest in religion and only started wearing a muslim vail about a month ago. meanwhile, french authorities have led 600 house searches since friday's attack. that is a new number overnight. they're set to extend a state of emergency for the next three

months. that would ease restrictions. some things that happen here are soup kitchens operating are not allowed to operate. there's a big climate summit coming up. a lot of people are not coming because under those emergency powers they will not be having those big protests. belgian's prime minister says he's ready to spend an extra 400 euros there. that's doubling their budget. joe. >> all right. thank you so much chris jansing in paris. it really is just remarkable how many of these people that have been engaged with isis and terror attacks had no religious background, no examples of religious freedom. in fact, more involved in drugs and petty theft than in religious extremism and the shots of this fairly modern born and living in paris who hasn't

worn a vail until a month ago. really troubling. let's talk about isis a bit. u.s. and coalition military forces are continuing their attacks against isis militants in iraq and syria. the department of defense reported eight more strikes in syria and 19 more in iraq yesterday. they are picking up the pace as secretary of defense told us they would. this week they have been targeting isis oil productions. that's a source of revenue for the terror group. some estimates are they make up $50 million a month on the black market. let's bring more to talk more about this. graham, i remember, i guess about six months ago reading

your article, i guess right before it came out and immediately calling you up and read it a day or two ago after all this happened and boy, it is, it still remains the most relevant article to understanding what's going on with isis. bring us up to date over the past six months since you wrote the article and what we're seeing across paris and the globe. >> the ideology of isis remains the same. they want to build and everybody opposes them. people who identify with them need to be fought. the real change though is paris. building a state and having spectacular attacks on western targets are usually considered two different things and if you do one, you can't do the other. it was an al qaeda style project to have big attacks in the west. isis use to say you got it wrong.

you did 9/11 and what did it get you? >> you got invaded. they seem to be suggesting that old al qaeda strategy is still alive. major shift for the organization. >> you know, graham we played after the paris attacks a clip from homeland where you actually had somebody explaining to military generals what their strategy was. said we don't have a strategy but they do and then when the question was asked what's their strategy, what's isis' strategy? it seemed like homeland lifted the words from your article. it's all about the end times and all about the book they read

every day. they are trying to create a that will lead to all times and that's why we see the beheadings and see things we are seeing. that is at the end of the day their goal is to bring about the end times. based on their religious leading of the koran. >> yeah, they're still at it. even when they took credit of the downing of the russian airliner, their statement said we're waiting for you. the prophesy said you're coming crusaders and named the place where they expect the battle to take place. so it's still very much part of the ideology that the fight is coming, that it was foretold 1,400 years ago and for the islamic state it's going to be a great thing that they're going to succeed and then they'll bring about the anti christ's arrival and the return of the

profit jesus who will lead the muslims to battle in ultimate victory. >> mark. >> what is the weakness they're showing? where are their as a rule nur blts right now? >> the good news in iraq themselves they're losing territory. over the last year they've lost quiet a bit of space and there's a string of battles we could name. one after the other that they're losing territory to mostly curdish teams that have been assisted by the united states and others. so i think partially this change in strategy, it may have something to do with the fact that their old model of spending by conquest not working so great in their core territory. they might have decided to try something else or at least give our brand a boost by having a bit more presence in the headline. >> all right.

thank you so much. we greatly do appreciate you coming back. ron, i wanted to bring you in here to the conversation. you do get a sense when you hear graham talk and look into this that we really have not understood over the past six months, past year, exactly what isis wants. you have a lot of people saying this has nothing to do with islam. this has nothing to do with religion and as graham states yes, it does. it has to do with a very cult-like originalist take on the koran and they know exactly what they want and it's hard for us to apply western logic to their attacks but if we're going to figure out how to defeat them, that's what we got to figure out first. >> yeah, it's easy and accurate to say president obama really underestimated isis by saying they were a jv squad and

contained and now saying they don't have the capability to hit us. i can't believe that's true. we have to look at this and try to put ourselves in their shoes, if we could. i would like to ask graham, if you look at a couple of the potential u.s. responses to this, how would it play into is isis' strategy. for example, if we did put a lot of ground troops in iraq and syria. how would that play in your strategy and turn our backs on the muslim refugees, how would that play at all? >> so, putting a lot of troops on the ground i think would play directly. they've made no bones about it. they want to have an attack. their whole narrative is to say that it's islam verses crusaders so the more images they can produce of americans, of christians who are fighting them on the ground idealy and they would love to capture an

american, parade him. >> do we not fight them just because that's what they want? >> well, it's of course confirming their narrative is not the worst thing we can do if it defeats them. we have to think after this as it's a fight that happens on the ground and happens over territory and i had logical territory and idea logically. the way they're doing it is by advancing the narrative. we want to show and done so successfully, the main opponents they face, the islamic state faces on the ground is muslim. these are kurds and iraqis and jordanians and others. i think being cautious about the way we approach that. >> on the refugee question, there's little dispute among people who watch the group and what they think of the refugees. they think the refugees repent and go back to syria and join the islamic state. i think it's very important we

show we are welcoming to syrians and on the side of muslims and when we say that the refugees are a threat that's bad for us and good for the islamic state. >> all right. let's get to that now. in the attacks, the crisis has taken a sharp turn. some announced they were going to be shutting their borders to economic migrants and only allow refugees from syria, iraq and afghanistan to pass. that created huge jams. some 1,500 migrants were left stranded in the no man's land between macedonia and greece. here in the united states, the house of representatives yesterday passed legislation

that would drastically tighten the screening protocol for syrian and iraqi refugees entering america. 47 democrats joined the vast majority of republicans in supporting the bill and pasted by a vote of 289 to 137 giving the two-thirds support needed to override the presidential veto. >> if your law enforcement and intelligent community cannot verify each and every person coming here is not a security threat then they shouldn't be allowed in. right now, the government can't certify these standards so this plan pauses the program. when we have indications that some of the paris bombers, one at least, may have come through the refugee routes, don't you think common sense dictates we should take a pause and get this right. >> meanwhile, ted cruz and

erra paul tried to pass bills. >> in response to my genocide a different circumstance, president obama attacked me directly saying it was un-american to want to protect this country from terrorist and help persecute a christian. the president refuses to say the words radical islamic terrorism and so does hillary clinton. not only do they refuse to say the words but they are suppo supporting a policy of bringing tens of thousands of syrian refuge

refugees. >> we are seeing republicans take the lead obviously the the early part of the debate and seeing democrats coming along being concerned not only about refugees but the guest visa program we've been talking about but you're also starting to see concerns in europe and the balkins and of course, a huge political blow back. it's become much more complicated than the republican verses the rest of the world debate that we're starting to see what countries around syria have been experiencing now for well over a year. a real crisis that doesn't have a quick fix. >> well, it is more complicated in parts when you have 47 past democrats voting for this bill yesterday under what i am told is intense pressure they felt

politically to do something and i was also told they've left a meeting with the obama administration officials basically unsatisfied with how the administration was defending the current screening apparat apparatus's. let's step back for a second. two points. one is sort of long term strategic point graham was talking about here which is is this helpful for what we're trying to do in respect to isis and terms of p.r. battle as well as a humanitarian one. secondly, i think it's important to realize as much as we feel this sort of at home here and certainly we have our own history with 9/11, our situation is dramatically different than the europeans. the screening process is far more than what's happening in europe. the refugees take about 18-24 months to be resettled in the

united states which is an ordinary amount of time if you're a member of isis that wants in the united states. as you pointed out we have a different circumstance here. the travel visa program is a much greater as a rule nur blt and if the standard paul ryan is guessing is 100% certainty there's no threats then there's a whole host of other things. they got here on travel visas and student visas. we need to recalibrate how we're thinking about this. >> we may and we've been talking about it the past few days. we may in focussing on these refugees, we may be missing the much more difficult situation for us and the much larger crisis as it comes to visa guest. guest that come here through visas. you look at the situation through europe and read the news and look at that time images and see europe doesn't have the same screening system that the united

states has. that said, it's become the hot button issue. you have people like donald trump, ben carson, ted cruz, each trying to out fralank each other on whose toughest. it may be great for republican politics in 2015 but how does it play in 2016 when we go to a general election where republicans have been winning more and more older white voters and losing more and more of the rest of the demographic break downs? >> what i think is notable is the way there's such a significant broader based coalition in favor of taking a look at how we screen refugees. this isn't an issue as the vote in the house showed that breaks down strengictly along party li. the bloomberg pole showed democrats we shouldn't allow in any refugees. this is not a question about

should we rethink our policies but you had a third of americans saying you shouldn't let in then. >> chris tkristin, let me clari. yes, republicans are on the right side if you want to look at the polls with the american people. there's no doubt americans are much closer to where the main stream of the republican party is on refugees than the obama administration. you can say the same thing on fighting the war on terror. the republicans are in a stronger position because of how badly the president has played his hands over the past 48 hours, pathetically, in fact. when you have donald trump talking about data basis for muslims and ben carson mentioning rabid dogs in the same sentence for syrian refugees and these sort of statements following the republican front runners around, what is the long term impact of that on the republican party for swing voters in the suburbs of

philadelphia and the outskirts of detroit and michigan. places where republicans have to wen if they're going to get back to the white house? >> i think the redderic -- he wants to create a national database of muslim citizens and you'll find an awful lot of citizens that once you take it to that kind of extreme then you're moving on.

>> you look at the bloomberg pole and they say don't accept the syrian refugees. this is a bipartisan concern and let's hope that the congress can work with the president and get us a reasoned rational sane policy put forward. the associated press reporting three people dead in mali sourcing a military official. there's reports hostages that could resite verses from the koran were allowed to go. still ahead, we're going to talk to senator john -- more of our exclusion i have interview ahead. you're watching morning joe.

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reports of fatalities in the hos tanl situation, let's go to chris with the latest update.

>> reporter: joe, thanks. the a.p. is sourcing a commander who says 20 hostages were released. military officials say three have been killed. all of this has been unfolding over the last couple of hours at the radissan blue hotel. a spokes person told nbc news the hostages include about 140 guest and 130 employees. the a.p. says 10 gunman stormed the hotel shouting in arabic god is great before firing on guards. there are also reports that hostages that could resite verses from the koran are the ones who they released. we also know president obama has been briefed on the situation and susan rice is the one who gave him the briefing. he's continuing to get updates on that. let me bring you back to paris. we are getting new details.

the new york times is reporting this morning he started planning a series of attacks 11 months ago. according to french officials they boarded at least four of six plots he was involved in. also reporting on the counter response in paris, that is the one where terrorist killed 89 there alone and wounded dozens more. nbc spoke with the french police officer who led that raid. >> we discovered more than maybe 7-8,0 7-800 people lay on the floor and tons of blood everywhere. >> this is the first thing when

they went through the door and it's obvious what happened. >> as soop as we opened the door one of the terrorist is shot like between 25-30 rounds of a.k. 47. >> this is the holes? >> exactly. >> by the way, one of more than 600 raids that have been taking place since that's friday, joe. >> all right chris jansing in paris, thank you so much. we've got bob woodward straight ahead. bob says that carpet coming

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♪ sleep train [train horn] ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ there's an on going hostage crisis in mali and we continue to get reports. three people are dead. let's bring in right now nbc

news correspondent. i was thinking back and by the way, he's in brussels following the situation developing there as well as he's been following mali for some time. most people think that's obama's daughter. obviously, in 2012, this was a country in the midst of a battle where forces were trying to take the country over. it remains a hot spot and from everything i've read this morning, a place where terrorist could actually prepare for attacks against the west. >> yeah, mali has been a country

with impacts for the past several years. they have been struggling wi. dealing with groups in the north part of the country. now, the storm sort of came together in 2012 because it was around that time that the military in mali carried out a cue against the civilian president against the country at that time and shortly after doing so, the country split. you have some rebel groups in the north but you also had al qaeda affiliated groups and islam militant groups suddenly arise in prominence starting to carry out attacks and manage to take the entire northern part of the country under their control. they shock the world just as we're seeing with isis in syria. this morning some of the most

ancient sites shocked the world and led a government who had a strong we rationship. it happened to be a french kolmy and immediately launched air strikes to try to regain control of the northern part of the country and bring it under control of the northern part of the country. they managed to launch control in the northern part of the country. but it is by no means stable. those groups have been carrying out attacks mostly in the northern parts and it's growing concern thai going to start pledging allegiance to isis or see the presence of another group that operates in west africa start to establish a foothold in the northern part of the country. the attacks have been increasing. there was an attack in march that killed five people when one of the groups in the north this

is the braising attack since 2012 against the central government, joe. >> all right. thank you so much. this just in. nbc news is now confirming that five of the seven tur rikish airlines crew members that have been held at the hotel have been freed. among them a captain and flight attendantment it's an active situation. we'll stay with it. coming up next bob woodward is here and uncovered a new letter from president nixon to henry kissinger. i'm going to ask him what we can learn from that and our current fight in syria, iraq and across the middle east. bob woodward when morning joe returns. working 24/7 on mobile trader, rated #1 trading app in the app store.

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a beautiful view of washington d.c. and we move closer to thanksgiving about a week away. let's bring in from washington associate editor of the washington post bob woodward. it's great to have you with us and certainly in times like these. in critical times for the country to have your perspective, what you've seen through the years and we have a situation where you actually have uncovered communications between richard nixon and henry we haven't seen before and say we can learn lessons from what's happening in vietnam with what we're going through today. >> in this nixon hand written note of 1972 to kissinger saying we've done three years of bombing and achieved nothing.

it's a failure. if you fast forward to 2008 when obama's, after he's elected before he became president, michael hayden, cia director, retired four star general had taken the position that you can't solve these problems from the air alone. you have to change conditions on the ground. now, of course, obama detests war and wants to rightly avoid some massive ground force campaign in the middle east or anywhere but the result has been, i believe, that the united states comes off as kind of this humble super power with this giant military but the president is so reluctant with good reason to use it. now, we're in this very, very odd position where what do we do

and the idea, the theory, strategy of the u.s. will conduct the air campaign and we'll use ground forces from other countries. i don't know if you look at this how it's going to work. go back to the first gulf war almost 25 years ago. 1991. 38 days of bombing of su dhusse forces in kuwait. they needed a ground war to win. how are you going to get there to some sort of victory. i don't see it.

>> right. it seems they're no longer leaving behind for france and others concerned. we're hearing from our allies across the middle east they fear getting in because they fear the president won't be there to back them up. i'm wondering if this is not perhaps one of the most glaring examples of generals fighting past wars where you actually have a commander in chief who is so determined not to repeat the mistakes of his predecessor that we've allowed 200,000 people to die in syria and allowed a massive destabilizing refugee crisis that was destabilizing the middle east and now destabilizing all of europe. >> look, i think it's severe to say he's not leaving. he says he has a theory here but the theory is containment and containment means in so many ways the status quo and i think

there's lots of people and lots of military experts and people in the pentagon who say the status quo is not enough. we need if the goal at least is articulated by the president and everyone is to destroy the islamic state, you don't do it with a policy of containment. this is a giant problem if you go back to 9/11, the very famous 9/11 commission which came out years after the attacks in 2001. they in a very sophisticated way i think said look, if four failures in dealing with terrorism is they look at what happened in 9/11 and probably going to see some echos of this in paris and the four failures, our first failure of imagination to think of awful things that

can happen, a failure of capabilities, a failure of having the right policies and then a failure of managing those. i think when we go back and look at all of this new era starting with paris you're going to find exactly the same series of problems particularly the failure of imagination. awful things can happen. it just takes a few people as we know. >> this spans at a time in our country where we've lost the trust and faith in our leaders. it spans a time we've become much more geographically polarized and lost a common set of facts. this is all really hasten since

9/11. i wonder what's going to happen the next time we get hit in a big way. what's going to happen? are we going to hold together or fall apart? can we handle as a country a major attack without seeing more of the kind of bs that we see from the republican and democratic leaders this week. >> hillary clinton yesterday laid out some rather important points but again, this is the kind of theory. you're right. if there isn't an attack in this country god knows what happens. it's a particularly massive attack of some sort.

you know, we got to pause. i was fascinated. we have no evidence anybody's trying to plan anything in this country. this goes back to the imagination question and the capability to know anything. clearly, you cannot, i think this is a very, very dangerous time. but you know, we lived through those years after 9/11 where everyone expected hey, we're going to have another attack and we did not. >> bob, thank you for coming by. we appreciate it as always. coming up, europe looks at sweeping changes in the wake of the paris attacks and more on the breaking news from mali. reports that three are dead and

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don't settle for u-verse. x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. an american teenager among five people killed by terror attacks by palestinians in the west bank. that happened yesterday. 18-year-old student of

massachusetts was in israel studying during a gap year between high school and college. israeli police say he and two others were killed when a pal tin canadian man used a machine gun to fire on other vehicles from his car. that happened before it collided with another vehicle in the west bank. the first attack happened in the commercial area where officials say a palestinian with a permit to enter israel stabbed three israelis killing two of them. both assailants were taken into custody. coming up at the top of the hour a live report of three dead on the ground and a report that special forces have been entering the hotel. we're going to get a live report from paris. the hunt continues for suspects as we learn another suspect in the wednesday raid was killed. and we're going to have ben carson's comments kpaering some refugees to rabd dogs and

claiming flying planes into the twin tires didn't require a great deal of sophistication. also the latest on donald trump suggesting a national database for muslims and chaos abounding in the republican party. you're watching morning joe, we'll be right back. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ and i'm still struggling with my diabetes. i do my best to manage. but it's hard to keep up with it. your body and your diabetes change over time. your treatment plan may too. know your options.

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latest generation of cadillacs. the 2016 cadillac srx. get this low-mileage lease from around $339 per month, or purchase with 0% apr financing. welcome back to morning joe, it's friday, november 20th. i'm joe. mika is out for her know your value event. with us this morning we have managing editor of bloomberg politics, senior political

editor and white house correspondent for the huffington post and also news and finances anchor vienna in washington. we have kristin anderson and nbc news political director and moderator of meet the press and host of mpt daily, chuck todd. we have an awful lot of politics to get to this morning. brand new nbc survey monkey poll out that shows interesting shifts in the republican side of the race plus a lot of state polls that came out yesterday that are showing a new dynamic that i want to talk to chuck and mark and everybody else about. we begin this morning with rapidly developing breaking news out of male and west africa where a group of gunman stormed a hotel in the capitol city taking 170 people hos tanl. the a.p. is sourcing an army

commander who says 20 hos tanls have now been released and a military official who says three are dead. among them a captain and flight attendant. this is all unfolding at the radissan blue and a spokes person tell nbc news that the hostages include about 130 guest and 30 employees. according to a.p., 10 gunman stormed into the hotel shouting before firing on guards. there are reports also that hostages who could resite verses from the koran were allowed to go. president obama has been briefed on the situation by susan rice earlier this morning. let's bring in right now nbc news correspondent live in brussels. he's been following the story there and this breaking news all

morning long. what more do you know this morning? >> we have getting confirmation. this is a state run television saying 80 hostages have been freed. it has not explained how those hostages were released. was it through a military operation or the gunman. what we do know is there were three people killed and hostages were taken from a host of different countries have been taken inside that hotel. we have gotten confirmation that the foreigners inside the hotel include indians, chinese and tur kreb nationals. it has not been clear whether any of the hostages remain or not. what we have learned is an alert to all citizens to take shelter in place and wait for further updates. they did confirm 140 people were

taken in the early hours this morning during the operation. the country's president has cut his troops short and returning to the country. we've also gotten confirmation from the united nations that they are deploying resources to help the security forces on operation. that confirmation came out of the united nations a short while ago. it's still an active military operation. joe. >> all right. thank you so much. live from brussels, we greatly appreciate it. let's go from brussels to paris and turn to chris jansing. she's live in paris to give us the latest developments from there. chris, what do you got? >> good morning, joe. in the neglecterlands, let's start there. the authorities have been on heightened alert. police contained three people.

the police say the car gave officers reason to further investigate gait bbut not givin information on why or telling us anything about the identities of the three people. also this morning french prosecutors say a third body has been recovered at the scene of the apartment where wednesday's raid happened. we're learning more about the suicide bomber who blew herself up in wednesday morning's raid. this is the first affiliated with isis. french prosecutors say they found the passport at the scene. the mayor of the town tells nbc she was born in a north western suburb of paris in 1989 after her parents moved in the 70s. now these photos show her as a modern young woman. she's taking selfies here and there's another of her in a bubble bath wearing only a necklace. her brother told the daily mail

she had no interest in religion, only started wearing a muslim vail about three months ago. friends say she liked to drink alcohol. they've led more than 300 house searches and said to extend the state of emergency to the next three months that eases restrictions for searches and arrests. belgium's prime minister said he's ready to spend an extra 400 extra euros to increase security measures. >> thank you so much, chris jansing the paris. we'll be back with you soon. let's go to politics. a new national poll out this hour shows donald trump with a strong lead. the poll shows trump ahead 28%

followed by ben carson at 18%, ted cruz taking a big jump. look at those two numbers. carson down 8 percentage points over the past month. obviously, the question is about his character and no doubt the question about his ability to handle national security issues which have also been in the news. ted cruz has jumped eight points. he's at 18%. marco rubio down at 11%. jeb bush, chris christie, carly fiorina all in low single digits. let's go first to chuck todd. donald trump, we had state polls where trump is way ahead of everybody. in new hampshire donald trump

showing a strong lead there as well. is it time for the republican establishment in washington d.c. >> it happens to be by john kasich's super pack. >> trump in the meantime, i know some thought maybe the paris attacks could make the race get serious and that would hurt trump but i think a whole bunch

of events, the president being small and going on the attack itself. trump seems stronger this week than last week. you can't help but wonder is this the initial response by some voters in the republican primary to almost gravitate back to trump, back the strength. even if it's politically incorrect strength. >> carson's character questioned over the past several weeks, his biography questioned and his ability to answer basic questions about foreign policy questioned this week. are you surprised by seeing trump jumping up in these polls as much as carson is taking a dive. >> i think the strength is clearly a key word. we did a national poll this week

when politics asked people between carson and trump who do you trust more to get things done and that is one of the strongest traits trump has. people want to get stuff done and you see there combatting terror, carson way behind trump on that. trump is seen as somebody who can solve things and that's what the country wants is someone who is active and pro active in solving things. >> you look at those numbers and look how far ahead donald trump is in front of carson whether it's handling terrorism, isis and putin. the questions of strength. also, economic questions. whose best to handle the economy. when it comes down to the actual issues, republican voters gut instinct is donald trump is better prepared to handle this than other candidates.

not just ben carson but other candidates that have run huge states like florida or new jersey. >> i think a lot of what you're seeing here with ben carson fading in the polls is his support was built on faef rablt. people thought he was a nice guy and they liked him. that's something that fades when all the sudden you say we need to start winning again as a country. the one word to define donald trump's campaign is strength, i say it's winning. a lot of americans feel tired of losing. they feel like they've been losing if foreign policy and economically and they feel they need to start winning again. he's talking about the polls where he's winning. this is a narrative in his campaign to the extent this is a moment where americans feel like they're tired of losing. if donald trump is the one out there most sort of aggressively talking about the need to win, a very visceral level, that's still resinating with a lot of voters. >> i tell you what, for those of

us old enough to remember, 1979, i can tell you the general unease and population in 1979 certainly feeling a lot like 2015 right now and in 1979 it was jimmy carter who was on the wrong side of that political calculation and ronald reagan took advantage of it. will it be donald trump in 2016? we'll see. a lot of the debate over the past week other than terrorism has had to do with refugees and the refugee debate continued to dominate the campaign trail yesterday and at the center of it all dond trump telling nbc he would implement a database system to track muslims in the united states. >> we should say lot of systems and today you can do it. right now we have to have a boarder, strength, law and we

cannot let what's happening to this country happen. >> it would be good management procedures. we can do that. >> that's nice. >> different places. you sign them up at different places. it's all about management. our country has no management. >> would it be in the database? >> they have to be. let me tell you, the key is people can come to the country but they have to come in legally. thank you very much. >> mr. trump, the muslim database would not be the same as having jews register. what would be the difference? is there a difference between the two? >> who are you with? >> i'm with nbc news. >> is there a difference in

requiring muslims to register than jews? >> you tell me. >> should muslims be fearful? will there be consequences if they don't register? >> trump's remarks about a muslim registry came after a day two syrian families were stopped at a border in texas. homeland security tells nbc news they were regular migrants who made no attempt but that information didn't stop the republican front runner from tweeting out a message of posting this video on instagram. >> syrians are being caught at the border like we said. they're going to be pouring in. we need a new president fast. >> ben carson yesterday worrying about syrian refugees to a parent's concerns about quote mad dogs. >> if there's rabid dog running

around your neighborhood, you're probably not going to assume something good about that dog and you're probably going to put your children out of the way. does doesn't mean that you hate all dogs by any stretch of the imagination. by the same token we have to have in place screening mechanisms that allow us to determine who the mad dogs are quiet frankly, who are the people who want to come in here and hurt us and want to destroy us. it's foolish for us to accept people if we cannot have the appropriate type of screening. >> vienna, i don't know where to begin. refugees being compared to dogs or mad dogs, a muslim registry. i'll toss it to you. what exactly is going on out there? >> someone who was privileged to come to this country at the age of two is a refugee. i get it.

i'm sympathetic. i was called a common spy every day growing up by neighbors and friends coming from communist country but times have changed. the world has become more dangerous. we live in a post 9/11 world. as chuck todd said go back to the president's comments and many of them like chuck todd said refer to them as being small. i think by the fact he's not allowing americans to understand he's sympathy they wa sympathetic with their concerns. >> yeah. so you say things have changed. so you're saying you're no longer a common spy. >> exactly. i changed probably at the age of three. still debating the first few months. >> oh, okay. >> quickly became capitalist. >> very good. ron, jump in here. >> a am a communist spy.

wasn't it bill clinton who said i had rather be wrong and strong than weak and right. am i correct about that? that's what's going on with donald trump. i think the republican party, obviously, we all understand why. all republican voters have got to wonder kw the republican party be the party of life, for example can it be the party of religious freedom when it wants to tag and track muslims? we got to be careful where we go here. we're heading into unchartered waters. >> huge test right now. >> what's interesting though is the fact that these republicans

candidates are overreaching a way that's necessary. the american people are not that far behind them in their concerns. not their over heated and offensive schemes to track and attack muslims but as far as fears having syrian refugees coming into the country whether it's legitimate or not, the majority of american people share their concerns. that's why the overheated and offensive is so unnecessary. >> it's a huge test for all republican candidates. i think marco rubio and ted cruz in particular right now because they're both poised in the third and fourth position, it's easy to go for the cheap moment and pander to the base of the party and to the poplar settlement. can either of the guys or any of the guys find a way to speak more optimistically, bigger and more forward. we're not seeing much of that

right now, the opportunity is there. >> you know, chuck todd, marco rubio has been hammered from all sides on immigration over the past week or so. we looked at ben carson's drop but you've actually had jeb's people going after marco and trump going after marco and most heatedly, ted cruz going after marco. it's only one pole but i do find it telling that ted cruz has jumped up six points or so and sitting at 18% and suddenly becomes about to say the republican establishment's candidate but you talk about picking your poison for republican establishment. i think a lot of people in washington would rather have trump than cruz but that's quiet a jump by ted cruz. >> i would love to give john mccain the choice. all right, senator, cruz or trump. look, i think cruz has had a

good week too behind the scenes. he's gotten key endorsements in iowa. he's an infrastructure that's probably the best of all of them. let me say something larger. this has been a horrendous week. i think watching the way that many of these candidates have responded to the attacks this week it is, there hasn't been a lot of great leadership moments. you've seen a lot of, i mean, it's not just trump in wanting to tag muslims. you heard the carson comments. john kasich wants to start an agency on christian values. it's not as if the president has been a great leader here. he's been small and petty, used his public forms to go after republican critics rather than sort of channel the anxiety and

frustration and anger and nervousness of the american public. so this has been one week removed from the attacks and i feel horrendous about american leadership left to right. >> amen. >> chuck, i'm so glad you said that. we're here on a friday and you look back over this past week and you see the shameful demagogue zamora if i on the republican side of the ledger and the shameful lack of focus from the president of the united states. the g20 summit performance which is just as the washington post editorial page said was pech lateral and the next day you see secretary of state. and then republican responses to that. i think this has been a low point in american politics and

it shows that we have a lot of leaders that aren't up to the jobs that they've been promoted to do and they need to step up to the task. ron, did you want to jump in here? >> sam. >> i want to say one thing off of chuck's point which is the whipping up the fear in panic in happening as chuck noted is something that's a bit sad. you can't help but contrast that. at least i can't. we've had george w. bush handle this debate during his tenure in office where he went out of his way talking about islam as peace. you look back at that and say put aside strategically, that was a presidential way of handling these things. i was critical of the president on this show for the g20 summit. earlier presidents said they

think him getting don inspect mud like hah is what facilitated. i disagree. this trump stuff proceeded that and i think the contrast we have to make is to george w. bush and what he did in office. >> yeah, there's no false aequivalency and no since in arguing. they both have stumped this weekend. it's scary. i was disheartened yesterday to see hillary clinton's -- how they take on isis. as critical as i've been go back and look at the speech. that's what it looks like in a time of crisis. what are we seeing on meet the

press? what the administration is putting out. we have leann on tformer head o under president obama, not somebody who is shy about saying what he thinks ought to be done. we're tackling this issue on how this has been just a, i don't know how else to put it but a bizarre week watching the republican candidates respond to this. >> all right. thank you, chuck. still ahead on morning joe, new video coming in from our breaking news from mali. state tv reporting 80 of the 170 hostages released. plus senator jonathan standing by. we're going to speak with a member of armed services and homeland committee. chairwoman martha, you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back.

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we're following the breaking news out of mali. according to the a.p. special forces are going floor by floor through the rad san hotel. some 80 hos tanls released and the military official tells a.p. at least three people are dead. nbc news has learned france is sending 50 personnel forces from paris to help with the on going hostage situation. let's go to capitol hill. we have senator john thune of south dakota. great to talk to you. i want to talk to you about what happened in paris, our battle against isis and ask how in the world we've gotten in this place we're at right now where so-called jv team is terrorizing western civilization in large parts of the middle east. >> first, i think how we got

here is the president's, a lot of his decisions and obviously, the one critical decision to withdraw from iraq and decision not to enforce the red line in syria has not contributed to the chaos there, there are a lot of the decisions starting to compound. i think former president jimmy carter said it press when he said if you look around the world there isn't a single place where we're better off than where the president took office. we have a situation now we have to deal with. clearly, the best way to address the syrian refugee crisis is to defeat isis. until we do that, it's going to be difficult for the syrian refugees to be able to have a home in syria and that's something that we have to face head on. we're not going to beat these guys by detaining them. we have the defeat them and that's going to take an effort from the united states and leadership from the president and coalition of partners european and in the region.

>> senator, mark here. how would you rate the president's leadership since last friday's attacks and what would you like to see him do differently in terms of leadership style and speaking to the country and congress. >> i think the thing the president and you all have described is his response here in the last couple of news conferences he's done. i would like to see him devote the same energy to attacking isis to attacking republicans. i think the red rick has been all wrong considering the situation and circumstances. frankly, what i would like to see him do is come to congress and figure out a way to work with us to address this. right now, people are drawing lines in the sand and that's not helpful. what we are seeing is yesterday in the house of representatives you have 47 democrats who joined republicans on a piece of legislation that would deal with the syrian refugee crisis after those same democrats heard the white house's demonstration.

i think most of those democrats came away from that briefing saying we're not convinced. one democrat who voted for the bill described it as a modest approach. i think there's democrats like republicans who are very concerned by the threats that exist and the response of the administration in dealing with it. >> senator, you're talking about demanding an all out effort by the united states and the president to i rad kate isis. how many ground troops does that take in a time where we're over deploying the troops now? >> right. i think the thing i guess i would defer to our military leaders to exactly what that number is. >> no, sir, if you're president of the united states you're going to get a lot of conflicting advice from your military leaders. you have to make a decision. how many troops, how long and where do these kids come from. >> i'm not the president of the united states nor do i intend to be.

i think you have to listen to your leaders. the problem we've had in the past is they haven't listened to the military leaders. i think it's going to be important. the u.s. is probably going to have to have more of a commitment in terms of on the ground. i don't think that the lead force on the ground has to be u.s. it has to be u.s. led. we have to be in a leadership roll. i think there's folks in that region looking to america for leadership and willing to invest and put the resources and manpower into defeating isis. everybody is going to be effected in a harmful and negative way. the only way it survives is if they continue to take ground and hold ground and grow recruits from not only that region but around the world. >> senator, the president said he's not ready to work in a coalition with putin unless there's a transition process in place to get rid of isad. russia still wants to keep isad

in power. what would you do? would you work with russia to defeat isis? >> i think we need to work with anybody who shares that objective. clearly, we're not going to succeed in the region until we defeat isis and get isad out of power. the peace loving world is going to have to agree these are things that are going to have to happen if we're going to see any progress and get any syrian people back in the country and create some sort of stability in the middle east. if the russians come to conclusion isad needs to go, sure, we need to wrk with anybody that shares that objective and willing to put an effort behind it. >> all right. senator john thune, thank you as always for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. >> all right. see you. >> coming up, the latest from the hostage situation.

we report that next and get live updates from paris. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪ [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ [ birds squawking ]

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the mali government says that a security operation is under way to try and rescue about 170 hos tanls taken this morning. according to the government there were about 10 gunmen who entered the hotel and took hostages.

among the hostages that were taken, the nationalities included turkish, chinese, i indian and possibly westerners. the united nations are sending resources to help back the security forces as they try to get the situation under control. the french president says 50 special operation forces are being deployed and the u.s. government is aware of active shooter situation taking place urging all americans to take shelter in place until this situation is under control. meanwhile, at least three individuals have been reported dead. there's going to be a lot more information. stay with us after the break on morning joe. ok, we're here.

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believe we should again have a hundred thousand troops in combat in the middle east but we can and should support local and regional ground forces in carrying out this mission. baghdad needs to accept and embrace arming soonny and curdish forces in the war against isis. if baghdad won't do that, the coalition should do so directly. we should immediately repore special operation force president obama has already authorized and be prepared to deploy more as more syrians get into the fight. >> those democratic president books shl candidate hillary clinton speaking at the counsel and foreign relations detailing her strategy for defeating isis. mark, i thought it was interesting yesterday. there were a lot of democrats taking great pains to say she didn't distance herself from barack obama. but at the same time if you look

closer to the speech he most certainly did. she said isis had to be beaten and destroyed and she said air strikes are great but those air strikes have to be followed up by boots on the ground. it didn't sound anything like barack obama. it sounded like the hillary clinton most people have known for the past 20 years. >> some specifics like the no fly zone although she did suggest a speeded up and effort, not a lot of specifics about the kind of coalition and mission on the ground. some specifics, separation from the president and more black and white red rick. less gray than you hear from some in fact administration for sure. >> no doubt about it. with us now from new york member of the armed services and homeland securitys republican congresswoman martha. she's a retired united states air force kernel. also with us, bbc correspondent.

congresswoman, let's begin with you. you've been in the air force. tell us, are air strikes alone enough to defeat isis? >> we first need to unleash american air power to go after the commander and control and leadership and logistics. power supply. we've got to treat the islamic state as a state. we are admire the service. they declared themselves as a state. that's a strength of theirs and also a weakness. we've arveraged a little bit les than a day over the past 15 months compared to over a thousand a day we had in desert storm. even other operations, much higher rate of unleashing air power. we have unrealistic moves of engagement and going home with ammuniti ammunition. we have to bring the fight putting them on the their heels and cutting off the resources

and war fighting capability and the ability to be exporting terror in the region and we're not doing that right now. >> congress wam, i've had generals inside the pentagon tell me this is a phantom air war. two-thirds of the times they come back without dropping bombs on any targets. why is that? >> it's because the rules of engagement are so overly restricted because of the mind set. we have very solid procedures. i've been involved in air strikes from flying my own and overseeing operations in iraq and afghanistan. the laws of conflict, we don't target civilians. if you have a legitimate target that's going to meet your objectives to destroy a war fighting capability and everything i just listed, then you should be able to hit that target. right now, if there's potential for onsieville canadian to be hurt, they don't allow them to

hit the target. perfect example over the weekend they started to finally strike the oil trucks for over 15 mo months we have been avoiding because we didn't want to hurt the drivers. these are clearly legitimate targets that are providing millions of dollars a month to fund terror and we're allowing isis to continue to fund their terror and kill 10s of thousands of civilians creating a failed state and exporting terror. this is absolutely ridiculous. we need to unleash power for all it's bringing to the fight. >> secretary of defense said earlier this week that's a rule of engagement that's changed and they're going after the fuel trucks. i expect them to continue to do that moving forward. kim, let me ask you a question about the mind set of america's allies in the middle east. obviously, as you stated earlier

this week, this is not just an attack on western civilization. this is an attack on arabs across the middle east a. there has been concern and we've heard it around the table there's several gulf state allies of the united states that don't want to get involved in the type of fight and type of coalition that hillary clinton was talking about before because they don't trust american leadership. they don't trust us to stay there. can you tell me whether those concerns from diplomats actually reflect what you hear on the ground and if that is the case, why is it? >> i think one of the issues here is that the goals of the coalition or the goals this coalition has led by the united states don't quiet chime with some of the goals of your america's regional allies.

for the longest time and probably until today the primary goal is to see president isad be removed from power. their priority is not with isis. same with the turks. they thought isis was a useful foil to push back which was also their priority to get him out of power. now that we're seeing that the group is reaching out to europe and conducting attacks in lebanon, conducting attacks in egypt by bringing down the russian airliner, now is perhaps the time to convene the airlines and say we have to prioritize and make isis the key target at the moment. we understand that you're also concerned about president, this is how we can do these two things in parallel. >> congresswoman, let many ask you about the refugee issue in the states. earlier, i said the fellow president obama's aloofness and being small in his response to

backlash to the refugees led to some of the comments and what i meant was instead of sympathetic concern here, the real sympathy that a lot of people have in the united states and having people in the middle east and refugees come to the u.s. and live here and explaining to them here's the process. i think a lot of americans don't realize the process is as intense as it is. if you missed an opportunity, are you tell not satisfied with it and what more needs to be done? >> well, i serve on the homeland security committee. in march the chairman appointed to me a task force. as a bipartisan task force we worked for six months trying to identify the real threats isis will pose with the travel of foreign fighters and the variety of loopholes. one of the 32 fighters we have in our book that you can get on

the homeland security website addresses the potential gaps in vetting related to the refugee program. one of the 32 findings. we had fbi director and secretary jay johnson testify before the homeland security committee there are certainly potential gaps if the vetting process because it's only as good as the information we have. isis has said that they want to try and use the refugee process to potentially infiltrate and the fact that we have our highest security officials saying look, you can, the quote, database until the cows come home but if we don't have good information from the backgrounds or states then we do have gaps. i think it's legitimate. that's only one of many gaps we have to close in order to stop the flow of foreign fighters and home grown extremism. we need to be strategic and we

need to address the issue in a strategic way. >> all right, thank you all very much. thomas roberts has breaking information on the on going hostage stand off in mali in west africa. we're going to be bringing him in straight ahead. you have two choices; the easy way or the hard way. you could choose a card that limits where you earn bonus cash back. or, you could make things easier on yourself. that's right, the quicksilver card from capital one. with quicksilver you earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. so, let's try this again. what's in your wallet? why pause to take a pill when a moment spontaneously turns romantic? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? with cialis for daily use, you don't have to plan around either. it's the only daily tablet

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lp. we're following breaking news in mali. let's go to thomas roberts who has more from paris. >> we're getting fluid updates from the embassy here. the hotel is confirming they have 130 guests -- we do have reports of united states government personnel, working within that hotel. some of the initial reporting would indicate there are did he ever branches involved.

they would let me go as far as to say there are united states government personnel in that hotel, they would not let me say what department. france spent special forces -- forgive me. my forgive necessary just told me from france it france to hep with the onongoing swagss be within or five-storesle i can confirm there are government employees in that hotel of the united states government. >> all right, thomas. thank you so much for reporting to us. keep tacking with your sources and report pack to us as soon as you have more news and we'll be

receipt back with lef reports on the hostage tahj crisis in mali, as well as the developments into the vgs into the paris terrorist attacks that happened one week ago tonight. we'll be right back.

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welcome back to "morning joe." mika is out this morning for her know your value event in orlando. a group of gunmen have stormed a

hotel in mali city. state television is reporting that some 80 hostages have already been released and three pop are dead. this is all unfolding right now at the radsonably ho tele tn fwn mn stormed before hollering all

allah akbar. lots bring in ieamon. what more can you tell us? >> a security operation is under way. i we do stand that, at least 80 hostages have been released or freed. it is not yet clar whether these individuals were released as a result of the security praegs or if they managed to escape on their on. about security personnel are trying to sweep different floors

of the hole tell. they there is interest is is they say they now deployed some of their resources to assist the ongoing praegs going on by the ma layan police forces. some of the identities of those that are enside the hotel include chinese nationals, turkish nationals, endian nationals and there as no do the there could be many more according to sources on the ground. this is a hotel that was popular among millian forces.

it. >> thank you so much. please get back to us with any other breaking news. let's turn now from brussels to paris and go to krs jansing. she is lef in paris for the latest developments there. chris, we're coming up on a week, last friday neat since these tearor attacks took place and shook that city to its core. a lot has gone offer the past week approximately it will. >> ecan tell you everybody here is still unare in fd. california it be there's been a lot of activity already this

morning, joe. in the netherlands authorities are on heightened alert where police have deattend three people in in it about the identity scene of the apartment where yesterday' read happened. and learning morethe suicide bm are whoably herself there it she was born in the north wrn sib ushs after her family moved to the roonlon in the 0s. and then there are these photos that is he her as a modern young

woman, tacking selfies here interest in moe this thrt say they've led close to 6 behind steppes. it be behind millionorios to increase skurt ysh frrd from frrm thank you so much, chris jansing in paris. it's just remarkable how many of these people that have beenin ganled with isis and terror

attacks had no religious than in religious extremism and the shots of this fairly modern woman born and lefing in parns who hadn't given worn a veil until a month ago really trouble. let talk about isis a little bit. they are tenning their attack against isis militant and woks. weekary streaks have been toursing:can be. aconsidereding to the pent given, the military dropped leaflets warning truck drivers

it abandon their regulars before this were destrode. other recan y i guess it was about six months ago right before it came out and called you up and read it a day or two agriculture of a all of this that happened. boy, it still remanse the messed relevant article no in paris and -- they stel want to build a caliphate,nd the real chang, though, is paris.

building a state and having smar attacks on wrn targets are usually considered two different things. and if you do one, you can't really do the other. there was an al qaeda-style project to have. iesis used to say you got it anew york instead come to syria. nower that reversing the tide. 2,000 people have gone from france to syria and they're suggesting that old al qaeda strategy is ones that stl alive. it a major strategic shift for the organization. >> we played after the paris attacks a clip from "homeland owe "where you actually had somebody explaining to military generals what their strategy was. we don't have a strategy but

they do. then when the question was asked, well, what's their strategy? what is isis' strat gentlemen create that will lead to the end time and the deaths of all infid infidel. >> ba bast on their religious reading of the core be temperature. >> for the downing of that russian airline are, the statement says we're waiting for you the prophecy says you're going commonwealthing, crusaders.

they even picked the place. it still very much part of the ideology that it was coming, it was foretold and for the his lamb being state it going to be a great thing. they're going to bring about the anti-christ's and eventually the arrival of jesus. >> mark hal present. >> where are their vun ralts right now? >> they'll using laster that losing territory to mostly kurd esh teams that have been assisted by the united states and others. i think possibly this may have

something to do with the fact that their older moe about. all right, graham wood. thank you so much. we greatly appreciate you coming back. >> rod fournier, i wanted to bring you back here to the conversation. you do get a sense when hear grm talk and you rahal look into this. . from you hear people saying this has nothing to do with islam, it has nothing to do with religion. as graham state, yes, it does. it has to do with a kilt-like religion tack ton krr and but if

with her going to figure out how to dough feat them, that's what we've got to figure out first. >> it easy to say that president obama underacted it look at this -- try to put ourselves in their shoes, these are murderous, bloody machbd. in we pit a will the of ground troops in see ka and ref

gentlemens. testimony ff that he had love to capture an american, parade him, maybe find a tattoo of a crucifix on his wrist, something look that. >> but do we not fired him? if it also it is the sfrchlt magnetizing people to the caliphate from all oaf the world and the wear doing is by advancing this narrative. we've shown the main opponents that the islamic state faces on the ground are muslims and kurd and iraqis and others.

be very cautious -- we should be very cautious. on the refugee question, there's very little despite among people who watch the debate. they think the refugees into ed it respent and go tock. >> all right, graham. let move it this right now. in the wake of the paris attacks, things took a really sharp turn yesterday after serbia, macedonia, croatia announced they are going to be putting their born $ it be --

here in the united states, defining a veto threat from president obama, the house yesterday passed legislation that would drastically tighten the screening protocol for syrian and iraqi refugees entering america. >> if our law enforcement and intelligence community cannot verify that each and of person coming here is not a security threat, then they shint be alloyd in. right now the government can't certify these standards. so this plan pauses the program. when we have indications that some of the paris bombers, one

at least, may have come through the refugee routes, don't you think that common sense dictates that we should teak a pause and get this right? meanwhi meanwhile, rand paul and ted cruz tried to introduce legislation of their own. >> in response to my acknowledging genocide as a different circumstance, president obama two days ago in turkey attacked me directly, said it was unamerican to want to protect this country from terrorists and to want to help persecuted christians. the president refuses to say the word radical is almost beist

pips not on do they refuse to say the words but they are supporting a policy of bringing tens of thousands of syrian refugees into this country knowing fulg well we cannot vet them to determine who is coming here to wage jihad. >> woo are seeing some republicans teaking the lead early on in this debate. you're seeing krns in europe. we saw it in the ball canes cans. and ainge la merkel will face a huge political bull back for ref gentlemen this mch more complicated versus a republican versus the rest of the

worlddebit. a real crisis that doesn't have any quick fix. >> you had 47 house democrats voting for this bill yesterday under what i i am told is intention pressure to do something. and so those are two factors that came into the 47 defectors here. one is sort of the long it have f forrespect toies yes, sir, in terms of a prchlts r. battle as well as just a hume taken one. >> i it's important to realize as much as we feelin et what if

our situation is dramatically different than the european's. the far for it nrn and they now teak 18 to 2 months for isis to get into the united states. the travel visa program is a much bigger run vablt that if. so we need to recalibrate how we're thinking about this. >> we may. we've been talking about it the past few days. we may in focusing so much on these refugees, we may be the mch more daft saf us and a

ard can read the news. they don't have the same screening system that the united states has. this has become the hot button, u, people look donald trump, ben carson, ted cruz, that may be great republican politics in 2015 but how does it play in 2016 when we go to a johnson election where republicans have been wenting more and more older white voter and losing more and more of the rest of the demographic breakdowns? >> what i think is notable about this issue is the way there is some a it there was the bloom

brg poll that recall why are this week that showed over a third of democrats saying we should not allow in any refugees. this was not just a question of should we rethink our policies. a majority of democrat said woo shouldn't let in anyone. >> let me clarify a little built here. republicans are on the receipt side if you want to look polls with american people. there is no dout americans are with closer to the mean stream. the republicans are in a much stronger position because of just how badly the president has played he is hands over the past 48 hours. pa theyically, in fact. but when you have donald trump

talking about databases and joe kernen talking about rab $ dogs, what is the long-trm empact of that on the republican party for swing voters in the suburbs of philadelphia? oath got a that this is not excliesive to the hostage situation. >> i think that donald trump's

threat to the republican party goes beyond just the statements of the last couple of days. i think it stretches back over the corse of his campaign and a lot of the rhett rk that he's dee dee employe-- deployed. >> if you look at the bloomberg poll we just put up, this is a bipartisan concern. let's hope a bipartisan congress can work with the president and get a reasoned, rational, sean toll policy put forward. brz t. >> plus presidential candidate martin o'malley joins us. how would he defeat isis? you're watching "morning joe owe ".

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right now we want to go to washington. >> the latest reports from mali, initially 170 people we were told had been taken hostage. we're now hearing from state tell investigation about 80 of them had been released. the white house, the president of course traveling malaysia right now wrapping up a meeting. white house officials tell us the president has been briefed by his national security adviser susan rice, he has asked him team to keep him advised of any

new details. of course it's the end of the day right now. again, they are monitoring a situation that's still ongoing. the standoff continues, joe, between special operation forces in mali and these hostage takers, these mel tants on the ground there. >> thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. in late october, 2012, mitt romney brought up mali at the start of the third presidential debate with his take on president obama's foreign policy. >> our hearts and minds go to them. mali has been it and over by al qaeda-type individual. i congratulate him on taking out osama bin laden, but we can't kill our way out of this mess. we're going to have to put in place a very come hence of and robust strategy to help the

world reject this element of radical extremism. it certainly not on the run. >> and here's the author john meacham. were you still looking at these debates and looking back through history and one liners like "where's the beef," and "you're no john kennedy." >> often losing presidential

candidates disappear immediately. and it doesn't stop hurting. mcgovern was once asked "when does it stop hurting?" and he say, "i'll let you know." >> many suggest that if there is a brokered convention that mitt romney's name may come up. ronald reagan was challenging ford, the the mississippi delegation decided it and there

was drama in 1980 when ronald reagan tried to recruit president ford to run as himself vice president and in fact on at the very last minute at 11:30 at night on the penultimate night of the convention did he ask george bush to be himself running mate. it's been over a generation since we've had one. almost all the ordinary himself tore call rules that applied to presidential campaigns have been thrown out the window on the republican side this year. so ewouldn't rule anything out. >> i certainly wouldn't either. i think it and donald trump may

be starting that from within inside the republican party. we'll see whether the party will sit back and teak a trump nomination or not. i doubt they would. let bring martin o'malley and mark halperin, yann fournier and sam stein. governor, a lot of people have a will the of questions to ask you. yesterday hillary clinton talked about her approach to taking on isis. i'm curious what your thought is about hillary talking about air power followed by ground forces? >> i think as usual secretary clinton leap progressed oaf the most important aspect and that is human intelligence or the lack there did thele -- that's

the missing point here. secretary hasn't shown an ability to really anticipate what comes next. as a nation, we need to become a lot better at that. we need a much more far seeing foreign policy, we need to be more collaboratively engaged where the threat of failing naegs states creates a back-in to give rise to groups like isil. that's why we need think not squaring off in a desert sm

between. >> welfare reform, there as a constant need to maintain that balance, mark. you can't trade your privacy or your freedom for your stur. >> including about 50 democrats? >> yes shamefully including 50 democrats what we need in times of crisis is not to fan the fear. i've neff felt that fear is a very helpful value for leaders in a crisis. governor whether they have enoperable communication, whetherer that acting in kword neated ways with federal authorities and all of these as

spkts governors should be focused on. congress should make it harr n how would you have shaped public opinion, led the country different le than president obama has these last three, for days. >> this crisis is still rel tell new but i have found in time of krfs when you hear people like donald trump wanting it do i.d. cards based on religious, what the hell is that? >> president obama having him come so hard after republicans, was that the receipt way to lead overseas? >> think you have to psh back.

of ethink the prs prz it is is -- well, it, oh, who the hell knows. i'll let you judge that. president obama's is far preferably to that rushed and cowardly vote they had yesterday. we a naegs that has always had the human commonwealth passion governor, with all due respect,s that not the question that's going asked. woor it how would your response have opinion different to that

of georgia twrchlt. >> i would talk through the fact that there's a 13-step process that goes through this vetting process for soar iian testimonym people say two-your process before they actual will go through the vetting process. i also would have called on congress to do more to improve the condition testimony. in f you've got to demystify this process and challenge people to do more, not to do less. the second we pull the covers

offer our heads or start issuing i.d. card for or muslim neighbors is the second we need it to. >> according would you palace. >> think it too early to tell what ball was dropped, if any balls were dropped. and the answers to how we get around this encryption challenge, technology is always changing. that's why in this new era, we need more between public sector and private sector. ets about net work security. >> but do you blame snowden or not? >> no, i don't. >> from he says he need to be

executed and hung, do you agree with that? >> i don't consider him a hero. but on this particular issue, i think it's too early to determine what might have been caught and what was messed. this is pretty know tore ands that all with information share owe, about row lent less follow-up, about things that are more about pro tebting the hom land than they are about facing off with armies in the desert. >> all right, martin o'malley, thank so much. we greatly prbt appreciate i don't and talking with has to extraordinary situation that we're following. >>let me ask you. it always fascinating to see how

presidents respond. you can go pack to what happened after 1 -- 9/11. i remember looking at the images coming from that negotiation press conference and was horrified by just how poorly he did. he fond his voice later and it has been remembered in those early disas being a have strong leader. i'm curious about barack obama, a performance that has been panned by just about everybody, or know that work for hmm eye curious, what was your name? what were reowe will.

>> it has been a remashably underwhelming performance. and ethink really on two levels. one is the ongoing public education about the threat. and understanding what it is as it changes i think has not been a part of the presidential office here. and i think that this has been a bad wook for obama in terms of his trying to crystallize a moment and point a way forward, which is what pop want from the president if he's been, i think absent. when who hasn't been be a constituent he's embassy as are baited it with thein temperature

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>>. i'm live in brussels. according to the raddisson hotel, 124 guests and 13 employees remain hostages there. it emerged about 1 people were it and hostage in the recall horse of that morning. according to skourt forces an praegs is under way it try and free or rescue some of the hostages inside. there is no clim or responsibility it and by the gunmen, according to vaerious --

and the american embassy is advising people it shelter in place if they can. the united nations has deployed additional security forces to help the government band and we also know that the french president today ordered 50 special praegss forces from france it prd it that at least three were killed and according to eyewitness account, the hostage tackers stel, fluid

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welcome back to "morning joe." e i'm mark halperin.

>> these are a bunch of pictures that go back to an era when right after the cold war ended. were there going to be 15 nuclear powers then? obviously we didn't want that. i was responsible for the program whose job it was to teak the nuclear weapons that were spread around the former soviet union and bring them all back to russia. here is a missile silo in ukraine. we've taken the myselfily out of that silo, subsequently blew it up.

>> wow, that's incredible. >> this is the bomb are of a kind, not that particular one but that we des mantled also. this was a bomber that we actually were dismantling. this is important because you look back in history and it's hard to remember how concerning that was, that era. the good news is the cold war had ended. the bad news is where are all the nuclear weapons. as we look back now remarkably it turned out much better than you ever could have expected. ♪

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good morning. from paris, i'm chris jansing in for jose diaz-balart. we're following breaking news out of mali, west africa, where more than 100 hostages were taken when a group of gunmen stormed a hotel in that country's capital. we know from a hotel spokesman, 130 guests, 30 employees were initially taken. the associated press is saying that at least three people died

in the attack. u.s. government employees were in the hotel. how many isn't clear. retch ard ngel is with me. obviously this has been a dangerous, rapidly developing situation, you can see video with people move quickly out of there. what do you know about the hostages and any attempts to free them? >> the video shows and local intelligence in mali says 80 hostages have been rescued. a will the of activities have been focused on the 7th floor. the images that woof soon showed mali and