>> good morning. it is wednesday, november 25th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, we have former communications director for presidents george w. director president george w. bush nicole wallace and former treasury steve and in washington columnist and associate editor for the washington post, david. that was donald trump tripling, quadrupling down on some of the stories that concern me. should we get to the latest news overnight? >> yeah. i'm sure your father is now off of trump, right? >> no. >> i'm being sarcastic. >> i think he's won arguments in the eyes of the supporters. i don't think any of the supporters were unsatisfied when we waived around that paragraph. >> i think we've been talking about it, post paris, all the

weaknesses people are seeing coming from leadership, they see donald trump as an antidote. right now for most americans barack obama apit economizes weakness. >> for people who love donald trump and support him love what they saw over the last few days. >> think about the last two days, we admired a debate over whether or not muslim americans were tailgating on roof tops 14 years ago. it's a bizarre race. >> if you're looking, if you're not paying attention to the primaries, does someone who can't admit their wrong appeal to you or not. i'm not sure people who tune in down the road are. >> he never thinks he's wrong. >> he never thinks he's wrong.

when was the last time donald trump said he was wrong. he always finds a way to work himself out of a situation. >> neither does obama. >> i think that at the end of the day is the biggest problem with barack obama. if you have a problem with the fact proc brock can never admit he's wrong, that he can't admit he's wrong and always keeps circling back and after the paris attacks, dana calls him oh bummer talking about how the french president was so much more forceful. so yes, if you have a problem with somebody who can't ever admit they're wrong, that is one thing donald trump has in common with barack obama. they can't admit they're wrong. that said, every day that goes by americans consider donald trump weak, that feeds into

dona obama. every day think barack obama is weak in his response. that only makes donald trump more powerful. it's going back to the 1979 example. >> are you writing columns for the new york times now? >> no. we should get into the latest news and also hear what the president has to say along with the french president yesterday? nato and the u.n. are seeking calm after turkey shot down a russian war plane. the turkish air force said the plane violated their air space and ignored 10 warnings to leave. a claim the u.s. military confirms. the turkish military of defense is pointing to our radar image they say shows the path of the plane as it flew over turkey. so-called moderate rebels claim they fired at the pilots.

at least one pilot was killed by gun fire. the other was picked up by the syrian army commander alive and returned to the air base there. russia has a history of violating air space in turkey including two incidents in as many days as last month. president obama addressed russia's role in syria. >> we got a coalition of 65 countries who have been active and pushing back against isil for quiet sometime. russia right now is a coalition of two. iran and russia supporting isad. i think it's important to remember you got a global coalition organized.

russia's the outlier. we hope they focus their attention on the most potential threat. >> what coalition? we had two of the three going global coalition, what global coalition and what are they doing if -- what's the president talking about? >> the president is obviously trying to put the best face on. when you look, for example, at the air strikes nowing, u.s. is flowing 80-90% of the air strikes. we look at this as a concern with obviously primarily with

isis. >> i think they're still interested in syria and do reguard isis as a threat to their countries, to their security. they're not as active members of the coalition as the u.s. would like. they're still on board. i think the shoot down of the russian plane was important because the u.s. had come to feel president obama and secretary kerry that it was important to draw russia more deeply into that coalition to encourage the russians to move toward greater targeting of isis as opposed to nonisis rebels that are attacking the regime and also draw them into the

attempts to get a cease fire in the syrian civil war so a broad coalition can concentrate. this shoot down is going to make that much more difficult. it's interesting to french president is going to moscow and interesting a close u.s. allie was with putin yesterday talking about this trying to calm him down from what we can read. it's very interesting to see president obama tried hard not to escalate the rhetoric. it's clear he would like to avoid a situation in which this breaks the possibility of working together with russia. >> let's bring in nbc news chief correspondent richard angle. richard, what do you think was really behind the shoot down of the russian jet? >> reporter: well, if you listen to the comments that the turkish prime minister just made a short

while ago he was talking about turkmen rebels. this is a group that operates right in that area where the russian plane was shot down yesterday along the boarder between turkey and syria and turkey's prime minister said russia should never target this group of syrian rebels and many people in this country believe that that's the real reason this plaep was shot down because russia has been targeting turkmen rebels inside syria. many people think the reason this plane was targeted was because of a disagreement. russia considers that group a

terrorist organization. >> richard angle, thank you very much. the president of france and the united states met at the white house yesterday for the first time since the attacks in paris where president obama praised their oldest allie. >> when tragedy struck that evening, our hearts broke too. we see ourselves. we've never forgotten how the french stood with us after 9/11 and today we stand with you. as americans we all have a role to play as how we respond to threats. they can't beat us on the

battlefield so they try to target us at home against innocent people. even as we're vigilant we cannot and will not sur come to fear nor can we allow fear to divide us. that's how terrorist win. >> a lot of reaction to this. dana writes in the washington post, barack obama, president obummer. celebrated by a stylistic gulf as best as the atlantic. on the left facing the cameras was holland ade and on the righ stood president obama. there was little difference in their strategies but hollande was upbeat and can do while

obama was discouraging and lawerly. maybe you can motivate people when you sound so discouraging but it's hard. >> it's remarkable he wrote this column. this is exactly what you said on the phone to me after you saw the president yesterday. you said he can do this. you've seen him do it in charleston, after newtown. you've seen him move an entire country. you basically said the same thing to me on the phone about the president as dana millbank was writing. >> i think he's trying to strike a balance here. david, what did you think of the

president's comments? there is a tone issue. do you think it still exist a day later? i know we were strong on this yesterday before. >> i had a different reaction to president obama's reactions. especially with the shoot down that morning, it was entirely appropriate. he talked in a calm way where he tried to speak to the country in a period of crisis. it's appropriate for those countries hit to come here with a lot of passion. i didn't find it inappropriate for obama to be more obama-like and more and more detached.

that's who he is. i think at his best. the point that really hit me, mika as i thought about these events was the way in which the inflammatory rhetoric of donald trump, when i talked to counter terrorism professionals working 24/7 to try to make sure they have contact with muslim communities in america and make sure they have trust and people report what they're hearing and seeing, this kind of rhetoric has the danger of breaking those relationships of trust. and i think president obama is trying to speak to those communities in a reassuring way appropriately because that's what our law enforcement, fbi and intelligence need in this period. >> listen. i think obama is so blinded by his taste by the bush years he can't look at what chuck todd looked at sunday on meet the press where he played clip after

clip of the specific area of understanding who the enemy is and islam is a peaceful religion and we are at war against terrorism. i think that the democratic leaders inability to call the enemy what it is, their radical islamic extremist, obama's inability to stand in the world grief and terror and chanld anything productive and then yesterday the inability to muster any emotions standing next to a leader who has lost innocent civilians, that's the catalyst for the rise of donald truch. zblm it would be fine if he had shown any emotion after the attacks instead of being

petula petulant. i would understand a stylistic change if he had ever shown any real emotion instead of attacks against crazies on the far right who are irrelevant at the end of the day. >> i agree with all that. his comments during the trip abroad were not handled very well and that exacerbated whatever you might have thought what he did yesterday. i think at the end of all this, the question is what are we going to do? the country and part of the reaction is trump said we're going to do stuff. people want to see some reaction and see something to deal with isis. i think it's up to the president to figure out what the strategy is that's articulated. >> it's not just the media that didn't like what they saw. andrea mitchell reported he didn't like what he saw. that was the backdrop of the meeting yesterday. i want to ask you david what you

think the strategy is behind down playing isis and clearly, it is a strategy because we've heard it again and again they don't have the capability to strike and they're killers with social media and we shouldn't talk about them so much because it makes them feel important. what is the thinking in the white house saying those things? >> i don't hear a strategy to down play isis? i think they're trying to put together a military campaign on the ground. >> david, i have to stop you because your first sentence and you know we've got the greatest amount of respect for you but that doesn't line up with the reality with a president that called them, said they were jv, said they were contained, said on the weekend after the attacks in paris they couldn't strike america, they didn't have the capabilities. the president who then said the following week after being

criticized that the media is to blame for puffing these people up that they're abunch of bad guys and killers with social media. there is a strategy. i'm curious why you would say there's not to down play their ability to strike. >> the strategy is announced. i've been writing this for several years. >> the question is why is the president down playing isis? it's a question we've been asking around this table for several weeks. we're not talking about military strategy at this point, we're trying to get into the president's head and willie's question goes to the question that democrats like diane finestein are asking.

what is the president's obsession with down playing isis' effectiveness. >> i think the jv comments were a did i that's rous mistake and both president and his director of national intelligence said we underestimated isis. that goes back now a year and a half. my only point is we now have a plan to send special operations forces into syria to work with our proxy allies and move village by village toward the capitol of the islamic state. we are also operating with our

special operation forces to take out people who are planning plots against the united states. we've been doing it for many weeks now. i counted more than 50 people have been killed on the ground in raqqah. it's not as if there's nothing happening. >> and fwagain, that's not the point willie was getting at. the question we've been asking for some time, hillary clinton can go out and say we're going to defeat, we're going to destroy them, this is what we need to do and we need to use air power and it's not a comfortable thing to say but we're going to have to use ground forces as well. the french president spoke about it, ash carter spoke about ripping the heart out of isis in iraq and syria and taking land back. everybody around this president is saying this and this may in fact be the president's policy. willie's question is, i think,

the confounding question of this time. why does the president instin instinctively underestimate these terrorist? >> and i think he's having trouble articulating. i think david just articulated more clearly what the president's strategy is let's try someone who covered the white house every day. chris january sen, what's the strate strategy behind down playing? >> reporter: i think yesterday

you heard they're trying to change the term from jv to killers with good social immediamedia to talk more about this group, the surge that threatened us. i think having said that, ultima ultimately, i was surprised yesterday we didn't hear a more articulated plan like we just heard from, david, which is ultimately what people want to know which is am i comfortable with what you're doing against this. it's very interesting to be in paris because it started out that they were very positive about what the president had to say about the relationship between the countries and quotes from hollande and obama and then suddenly, there's another attack in a place that has ties to france where there have been two attacks by isis and then you have a press conference by the french prosecutor and he's talking about looking for more people who are armed and dangerous. they woke up this morning to someone else, americans heading

into a thanksgiving travel weekend to know now there's a state department global travel warning. ultimately, there has to be a clear articulation of exactly what this white house is going to do and what the strategy is. that's what's going to calm people's fears. >> nbcs chris january sen, thank you. >> i know there's a military strategy. he's doing things we don't know about, there's people on the ground we don't know about. my question is why publicly he talks about isis the way he does? maybe there's a grand strategy there. >> and coupled with the inability to answer questions chris january sen just raised. i've had people call me, should i go on christmas vacation, is it safe to send my kid on the subway. people are terrified and he's created a vacuum in which he rages against political

opponents. >> and creating that vacuum. demagogues step into that vacuum. >> sure. >> you will remember george w. bush when he had the bull horn moment and from that point forward there were no demagogues that stepped into the vacuum on the republican side or he would have crushed them. he was doing that. this is the thing. you can do two things at once. he was having his bull horn moment saying dead or alive and at the same time he was going to islaming centers saying how disgra disgraceful it was that muslim american women were afraid to go out with their faces covered shopping and he said that's not who we are and that is disgraceful. two things at once.

>> we'll continue this conversation. still ahead on morning joe, oil has gotten the most attention as isis' source of funds but like any good business they are diversifying. steve charts out the terror groups multiple revenue screens. >> that's a tease. >> plus if you thought donald trump would back down on his 9/11 claims. you don't know donald trucmp. another speech for the republican front runner. also joining the conversation is rudy giuliani. >> this is the first ever morning joe. >> you're watching morning joe.

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this is what i call a real supporter. thank you, ma'am. are you married? are you happy with your husband? she said yes. she fantasizes he's really the real donald trump. >> he didn't say that. >> he just said that. >> donald trump sticking to his story. yeah. and this we can talk about. sticking to the story thousands of people celebrated in new jersey as the twin world trade

centers fell on 9/11. the reports of people dancing on top of the roof tops were false and the celebrations never happened. >> i took a little bit of heat. carson said yes, he saw it and said no, no his mind wasn't thinking right. i took heat in new jersey and jersey city. i said very strongly and correctly i said there are people over there and they were dancing in the street and dancing on roof tops. so what happens is the washington post writes an article and talking about northern new jersey draws the papers on and you got to see

this guy. i don't know what i said. i don't remember. >> if it wasn't such a serious issue. stop. no. >> there is one element of truth to what trump is saying that is true and funny because the poor washington post reporter writes this. at the time. if he didn't see it, he wouldn't put it in the newspaper. this is what people always do. they overreact to donald trump's overreaction and overreacting to donald trump's over reaction

whether it was a joke about mccain or whatever, it was a list every sunday. over react and give him a kernel of truth to hold on. now, willie, everybody's saying oh, nobody ever danced on roof tops. there's a washington post article that says they did. just say he's exaggerating. >> the article said police were investigatiing report that is this had happened. >> that they actually took people into custody because they were having tailgating parties. but the point is though it's in the washington post just say they investigated it and it may have been a hand full of people and trump is estimating it to a thousand people. it never happened and why did the washington post report on it? >> they reported that the police were looking at investigations. i can't believe we're talking about this. what happened on the roof tops all these years.

there were things that trump either did or said or retweeted over the weekend including s statistics about black on white crime. i think we've learned there's never enough to be enough. >> donald trump can continue to say this stuff which is so far from reality and the truth and his pole numbers only go up or stay roughly where they are. >> what's troubling is i have been very impressed by donald trump's political talents. my dad and mom go to his rallies. they're supporters. that's alarming is this is important because it's not about muslims dancing on the roof top to 9/11. this is about a sinister strain. there are people that like him because he points out those who are other and reminds us why we should be afraid. he's taking a position of a hard

line against immigration. he has strong positions over not taking refugees. >> your parents are not in the typical democrat. >> the reason trump is so powerful right now, it's not just high school grads. he's also winning among the self-described moderate republicans. >> college educated, i assume. >> college educated moderate republicans are also reporting this guy. i think george w. bush and i can't believe i'm going back to george w. bush because you know i was krit al of him for eight years. he showed he can be tough on terrorism. also being tough on bigotry and sin phobia. i think sometimes the republican acandidates are scared and look to his example.

nobody thought he was weak but he was tough against the sort of sooen phobia. >> something starts leaving a bad taste. i think this ultimate will you could help him win the nomination even. he will lose the election. i'm not going to argue with this strategy. i think it's a strategy and kind of an ugly one. i really do. i'll tell him that when we talk to him but it's the first time i'm really like this could be the problem.

i think this backfires. up next, why did it take so long for a police video to be made public? this is an incredible angle to a huge story in chicago. finally charges at the same time rushed to the forefront. reverend al sharpton who knows chicago well joins us for that story. we'll be back with much more morning joe. sometimes romantic. there were tears in my eyes. and tears in my eyes. and so many little things that we learned were really the biggest things. through it all, we saved and had a retirement plan. and someone who listened and helped us along the way. because we always knew that someday the future would be the present. every someday needs a plan. talk with us about your retirement today. prge! a manufacturer. well that's why i dug this out for you.

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this girl that escaped was beaten to death because she tried to escape. >> where was she, turkey? >> syria. she was in raqqah and got over there and tried to escape. >> do you guys watch homeland? >> yeah, we do. this is an extraordinary season. >> you tweeted it, right. >> actually i saw that the morning after the paris attacks and i got up early like

4:00 a.m. and i said well, i'm going to catch up with the season and i just set there and froze and said oh my god, this is a conversation they're having in the nsa this morning. it was written a year ago. >> right. >> let's get to another big story we're following. last night anger spilled over on to the streets of chicago after a white police officer was shown opening fire on a black teenager striking him 16 times killing him. he was held without bond on first degree murder charges. the dash cam video from october last year shows police responding to a call of a suspect armed with a knife. 17-year-old mcdonald who the prosecutor says they took pcp that night and he was carrying a three inch blade. he was walking the streets away

from officers. i don't want to -- -- we can describe now. he opens fire fatally shooting him 16 times. the coroners report shows two of the wounds were in the back. this isn't the first time, the nbc chicago affiliate showed at least 20 citizen complaints that have been filed against him in his 14 year career with the chicago p.d. and he was never disciplined. four of the investigate gass are open. he faces a potential penalty of life in prison if convicted and joining the table is the host of politics nation and t of the national, a lot to pick apart here. the boy goes down and continues to be shot on the ground, continuously, i think up to 16 times. why do long for the video to be released and then you heard officials in chicago saying we

brought the charges up quickly to line up with the video being released because they feared such a reaction. what's the back story here? >> the fear that a lot of people had and i spent a lot of time back and forth with our chicago chapter. they were in chicago. the fear last year when the case first came up is that they were stalling past the election. i think a lot of people were wondering, why did they wait. >> an officer shoots a young man 16 times. forensics shows this. this isn't ferguson.

this is on dash cam and forensics show him shot twice in the back. why wasn't he charged immediately. >> and shot twice in the back and 16 shots by an officer who had 20 complaints. >> right. so why did it take so long? >> that's the question. i think that the question is what did they know yesterday that they didn't know last year? then on top of that you make a $5 million settlement with a family who didn't file a suit. all this is compounding. many who were doing the protest are raising the question and answering why this was delayed and why we have here something that is ugly.

>> could you explain to americans that are tuning in to chicago this morning seeing what's happening and obviously will hear about the murders. just extraordinary number of murders, why is chicago a problem that just can't seem to be fixed? why are there so many murders there? why do we see this sort of unrest and this police brutality? >> i think we see in chicago a real problem in terms of from schools being closed to a food desert that there's a, everything you could think of that's wrong is happened in chicago and the result has been. >> compare new york to chicago. you're here and know me, why don't we have the murders in new york city that they have in chicago? >> i think you don't have the

same gang violence, the same complete segregating of communities and of city services. i think that in many ways you exacerbated when you have police shootings like this and it seems like downtown city hall is playing games on how you deal with it. >> what does new york city do to break up the gangs and make them less violent and deadly. two actual, two black community members who unforktunately bare the overwhelming brunt of that gang violence? >> no doubt about it we bare the overwhelming. >> why can't chicago break them up? >> i think there's more of a connection in terms of community policing. there's more structures in new york as opposed to chicago and i think we're not as segregated in terms of housing and geography.

>> in this case specifically, there's so many different angles that point to trouble. first of all, i think it's sort of how the video came out, how it was discovered. it wasn't released at first. there was a whistle blower involved. are allegations serious ones of police covering up? >> well action there was one, we had given one report where a local burger king had video erased by police. you're talking about real movement not to bring justice to this young man and the community as a whole.

>> we were able to get the governor here to have a special prosecutor on the fatal shootings taken outside of local politics. that's where i think this needs to go in illinois and that's where the movement needs to be for the prosecutor and not deal with the side issues. the politics needs to be investigated. we need an inquiry on outside law enforcement on what happened with the cover up. >> thank you. we'll be watching politics nation sundays at 8:00 a.m. >> we'll be dealing with this. >> thank you very much.

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yesterday we looked at how isis makes and spends their money. there's more ways they make a lot of money. >> sure, oil is a big deal but it's not the only way. like any good business they have diversified their revenues. so in fact, in 2014 the biggest source of revenue was from eluding iraqi banks and in much estimates got as much as $2 billion out of the banks. it's also the farming business.

they're in the ransoming and sheft business. obviously, paying for their military is a big part of it but they only pay $400 a month for their soldiers. you can buy a lot of soldiers for that and their basis. they run in the islamic police department and soup kitchens and religious schools. they have a consumer protection agency to prevent counterfeit medicine. they give money to the widows of soldiers killed and they run a very row bust media operation where they distribute dvds and other propaganda. >> how do you get these numbers? >> i get them from donald trump like everybody else. actually some of these numbers come from, there was an isis account book captured at one point. but they're trying to set up a central bank. they're running, you have to contrast this with al qaeda

which was basically abunch of renegades. these guys are trying to set up a full service government. >> we're going to continue this conversation at the top of the hour. we're going to ask former mayor giuliani if he sees anything relating to the primary. life's all about learning.... asking questions.... having new experiences. are you ready? the key to a happy satisfying life is to always be curious. jibo, how are you doing?

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still ahead, the strategies he has aligned with the french president. it's all about the tone. also, a mess on the ground becomes a mess in the air. will nato step in to try to sort out ashoot down of a russian helicopter. a lot of developments in the race for 2016. kasich does his best to take down trump. cruz calls rubio desperate and more from the rally in south carolina. we'll be right back. complicate . like limiting where you earn bonus cash back. why put up with that? but the quicksilver card from capital one likes to keep it simple. real simple. i'm talking easy like-a- walk-in-the-park, nothing-to-worry-about, man-that-feels-good simple. quicksilver earns you unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. it's a simple question.

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welcome back to morning joe. >> so much on that stage. wednesday, november 25th. the day before thanksgiving. >> happy thanksgiving. >> right here in new york city which should be fun. >> sounds festive. nicole. >> my husband is frying a turkey this year.

>> you're frying a turkey in the backyard? >> yeah. 350 in peanut oil. >> we have 23 people coming to the house. so i'm going to step off the set. >> the washington post's david is with us. joining the conversation, the professor at the university michigan school of public policy, harold ford jr. >> let's start really quickly with david. david, we had the conversation last hour. let's have it again this hour and i'm wondering, i want to go back to what mika said earlier this week which was she senses that the president has the same strategy obviously, that we hear from ash carter and other people in the administration that say it more forcefully. it may be harder for him to get that out.

are you comfortable the president has a strategy and americans should be assured? >> i think he's moving toward the kind of clear strategy i would like to see. i think he still faces a question of whether there should be safe zones, humanitarian quarters in syria and the air cover to protect them. he's not there yet. i think moving special forces on the ground into syria is a good thing. it is striking. the president, whenever he speaks about syria or isis talks as if he had rather be doing anything other than this. it's as if he's allergic to it. that's part of his style on many things. he's not a political red hot guy usually. we want to see a country that will take us to war.

>> i don't know what we want him to take us to war. i think most americans want to know he has a tough, clear, coherent strategy when americans hear ash carter from the pentagon talk about what he would do against isis. they are assured. i would say most americans, hillary clinton, saying basically the same thing barack obama is saying. maybe going a bit further or assured there is when you're commander in chief, obviously, there are many responsibilities. one is implementing strategy. the next is convincing americans that they don't have a reason to be overly fearful and this president from the beginning has been dismissive. you look at the polls, i think they're the washington post abc news polls, 81% of americans believe that an attack against this country is imminent. at the same time the president

of the united states spokes people are saying isis can't attack here. i think that the fear and the president's plan to articulate what we fear against isis may be connected. is that fair? >> i think he thinks it would be counterproductive to give the terrorist just what they're looking for. they want this polarized red hot rhetoric. i suspect they're delighted every time trump gives a speech. >> donald trump is speaking.

>> i guarantee you of those 81% of americans who feel an attack coming to the united states, 81% of those people aren't supportive of donald trump or think he would be a good president. they don't think we can blame this on red hot rhetoric. >> you make the point entirely correct. it's clear obama isn't doing that adequately. you and i could disagree about the balance of particulars but the broad sense the country knows its got a leader who sees this clearly. >> let's put that poll back up. a lot of people are listening to us driving in the car right now. 81% of americans according to a washington post abc news poll believes that a large terrorist

attack from the u.s. in the near future is very or somewhat likely 81%. only 18% say it's not very likely. i personally think those numbers are high. so much of that has to do with not only the president but i think by the way, diane has been a great statesman. >> i think we've all come to the same place. not exactly what the particulars are but i think we agree what the issue is. the president does need to lay out what the strategy is in the middle east as well as we assure people here about the fact that we do have very row bust defenses against terrorist acts and i think we've done a great knob in the last 15 years.

>> a very small percentage of those people trump supporters. >> he's a father. i don't understand why you can't look in the camera and say if you got kids traveling home from the holidays, you might be afraid to put them on an airplane. people are scared and that's not a partisan issue. he's been incapable for a nano second since the paris attacks. speaking to the country sz a human being about the fact that they're scared. he's reduced any rational fear. people don't understand the refugee program and people don't understand how exhausted the vetting is. he would blame anyone afraid. he called them kourds and said you're afraid of orphans and women. he's been a jerk.

>> mika, we were talking the morning after the attack. you have a lot of your liberal friends. a lot of your liberal friends that never voted for bush, never voted for republicans talking to you saying you know what, they're coming here next. that happened in paris. they're coming here. we're going to have to get ready and do things we don't want to do. this is in the president's fantasy world. he believes that this is only right wing freaks at tea party rallies who are saying this. no, these are your freentds, my friends, independents and moderates and servants who fear the attack is coming. >> i think the need to address the american people, i know my own daughters are asking questions about terrorism but

this is very real to us and there hasn't been a real kind of sense that there is a connection between the president and the american people in that. do you look at his words, looking at the words he said, they're strong but there's something missing in the connection as far as mentioning the refugee program, if you follow the white house's instagram on the refugee program, you'll learn a lot. obama wants to blame the public and call them afraid. there are people who are scared.

obama has failed his obligation to educate people. instead of standing up saying you're taunting people and saying you're afraid of orphans and women. why not educate people. >> here's what's so interesting. we talked about charleston. in my household, we don't sit around and watch tv. we don't watch the news in my household. in my household, when the president started talking about charlest charleston, everybody stopped. >> silence. >> we all stared at the tv set and everybody set there. when he sang amazing grace, we were tearing up. we set there and i said at that moment i am so glad at this moment he is president of the united states.

we all connected. like mi cka's children, my fami, many of others are fearful. we want that president we saw in charleston, after newtown, we want that president we saw in boston 2004. muster is much passion about keeping our children safe as he did after charleston and newtown and as he did for his own political advancement in 2004 and we're not seeing it. >> many people made the case those are the best moments of his presidency after newtown and charleston and bring people together and explain what's happened and what's going to happen next. i understand it's his strategy to project calm and be cool about everything. the only question is what is he doing to fight the problem? you may not like his style. what about the strategy?

is he fighting in ways we don't know? >> there are killers with good social media and they can't strike the united states. these are official statements and they're a jv team and you can put a colby bryant jersey on a jv team and on and on and this has been going on for two years. you start to think he has an ax to grind and he wants to prove to history at the end isis really was much to do about nothing. how do you develop a strategy against to protect a home lanlaf the president is saying they can't protect the homeland. >> there's no doubt over the last two years the administration has miscalculated and misunderstood what isis

amounted to. >> let's move on to a few other things imacting the story as well. thousands of people celebrated in new jersey as the world trade center fell on 9/11. attorney general at the time says reports of people dancing on roof tops and on the streets were false and the celebrations never happened. >> i took a little bit of heat. carson said yes, he saw it and said no, no his mind wasn't thinking right. i took heat because i said in

new jersey and jersey city i said very strongly and correctly, i said there are people over there and they were dancing in the street and they were dancing on roof tops. what happens is the washington post writes an article. you got to see this guy. i don't know what i said. i don't remember. he's going i don't remember. maybe that's what i said. this is 14 years ago. still, they didn't do a retraction. >> wow. and for the first time all campaign members of trump's family actually joined him on stage at his rally. >> i just want to thank my family and i ask other members of my family not here it's so supportive it's incredible.

i just want to thank you for all your support. would you like to say hello? come on, say hello. >> good evening. isn't he the best. he will be the best president ever. we love you. >> the greatest thing i've ever seen. his family is very nice. again, we should talk about the more serious aspect of this narrative that he's focussed on. harold ford jr., jump in the conversation. obviously, our point of view might be different than those who are his followers but i think this is kind of a turning point because he has to have more than this in his tool shed. >> more than one. >> up to this point he hasn't had to. i think the conversation you

were having before around i think joe said it, the void that exist around a lack of leadership and clarity around the strategy regarding isis from this white house is feeding and i think he said maybe a day or two ago on the show donald trump is benefitting from the fact there's been a con nation between the issue of immigration and terrorism and between the minds of voters and average americans. i don't know what gets him at this point.

what things we can be doing here at home to protect the homeland better and projecting the calm. joe said it well. you look at the history. calling isis a jv team and allowing putin to make advances across eastern europe, the fact that snowden was able to get away. add all this up and i think there's a real unease across not only the republican party but increasingly the democratic party about where we're going and the strategy and a real hope that the president is doing a lot more than he's actually saying and doing more than he's actually projecting. >> all right. david, what are you going to be following today? what are you working on in. >> well, i'm going to be looking at the reaction to the shoot down of the russian plane. this is potentially dangerous and the ability to keep the coalition moving forward in syria is crucial to beating isis. you want to know what would be an essential part of the

strategy against isis, it's getting this coalition all in the same direction. i want to watch that carefully and the trip of the french president to see putin and see what comes out of that. >> daiftd, thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> thank you as well, steve. >> we would ask steve what he's working on that has to do with turkey so large. >> stop. i can't believe you said that to me. is that true? >> it's true. >> that's a lie. >> turkey waited out. >> all right. there's irony. the common threat is both of

them involve turkey. >> thank you, steve. seasonal. still ahead, tom joins us with his reporting on military strategies and tactics. plus former new york city mayor joins the table. first, the past has prolonged. ca . karlrove is here. sprz

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. okay. 23 past the hour. i do respect you. great, joe. >> you know what i always say. people don't talk about mckinley enough. i have for the past 10 years.

i guess the mad owls show at night. must have had a conflict. he's got a new book out. why the election of 1896 matters. one of the things i did see on msnbc prime time last week which was shocking to me, a very long clip of george w. bush on the 18th of december talking to an islamic cent were. it was rif outing. you can also call out people who are zenophobic. >> you can also challenge the

muslim community to help confront islamic terrorism which is what they did. you can say this confronts those attempting to convert their attendants. >> what are concerned with the direction of the republican party? >> i'm concerned about the reflection of the strub candidates. in order to win the next election conservatives are going

to have to have confidence in the idealss. >> who can stop donald trump right now? >> a person who can talk about their vision. it's not about stopping donald trump. he has a high floor and low ceiling. it's about con sal dating 70-75% of primary electorate. >> can he win the nomination? >> sure, he can. you can make a case that probably six or seven people can make the nomination. do i think it's likely? no. >> karl, i'm sure you have your favorites, who, if you look at the blocking of politics, we've been talking a lot about ted cruz lately. when you get to the blocking and tackling, the money, organization, everything in the

early states, is ted cruz in the best position just politically on the fundamentals? >> yes, in one state, iowa. not necessarily in more than one state. he made the bet he's going to be the guy who he's counting on trump collapsing. which is why he doesn't say bad things about him. it's cynical and trump has a guy counting on him. the interesting thing to me is in iowa he's been meticulous and built the caucus organization like a caucus organization. >> he's doing well. >> you got trump going in, gigantic events. a cup ouple of them. cruz going in it. >> there was a shocking story in the new york times yesterday. they said something nice about chris christie talking about a possible come back.

>> even back in the days when we had the candidacies, we never had -- we have 14 left today. you can make a case five or six or seven of them can make way to the nomination. it requires lightning to strike. >> you're obviously intimately familiar with the bush family. what's going on with jeb bush. >> you can't use the word intimately. >> what's going on with him? why can't he get above 5 or 6% anywhere? >> he had a bad debate and followed by three reasonably good weeks so show who he is and

let it all hang out. he's in the barrel and going to have to work his way out of the barrel. >> he was a great governor. he's not connecting this year, why. >> this is a mystifying election. looking at the beginning of december in 2012, go back to the beginning of november. december 1st, we were going to start voting in january. go back to the first of november and we were starting mania and

going through gingrich time. >> president bush was weary of the strain of isolation. >> if it's more energy and effort and attitude then people understand. >> karl, you mentioned governor bush is having problems and had

to take trump down. >> let's, i'll put them in alphabetical order. there are candidates who win the nomination. bush, christie, cruz, i would put carson in there, sorry. kasich, trump and rubio. >> you're saying nothing. whose the answer of who could break through without lightning? >> nobody's going to break through without lightning. >> so then. >> if you're betting money on it. >> if i'm betting money. >> the top two right now have the best shot. >> three.

>> what is it about mckinley that you rest of you overlook? >> we have political scientist talk about five real great alignments of american politics and we talk about four of them in terms of the person who brought them about. jefferson in 1800, lincoln in 1860, fdr 1932. we have an enormous realignment in 1826. for 24 years the american political system is broken. go back to the guilded age. we have five presidential elections in which the country is so polarized nobody gets to 50% in 24 years. we have two presidents elected with the minority of the poplar vote and one of those elections has a five month long dispute. by 7,000 votes and along comes 1896, along comes mckinley and

wins an election up in the air and the american coalition dominates american politics from the top to the bottom except when it splits. controls the senate, the presidency, the house, has more governors and state legislators than we have today and the mayors in most major cities in the north. >> he starts as a private and ends as a major. two of those are suicide missions. >> why do we talk about the successor so much and don't talk about him? his political new year is over.

he gets the job he wants and i chart his five month past as an ambitious weasel working his way in. he writes his sister a letter that says we got a good platform but quote he is weak and i worry about him in a moment of crisis and shortly there after he writes one of mckinley's friends and says we must do everything we can. >> please tell me you have this on audio. >> i do. roosevelt spoke in a high false set up. there's really cool nicknames like morning joe.

>> america needs to be freed from the foreign bankers. she's got a major. he's began the wars of private and three battlefield commissions brought hem to the title of major. that's the primary of 1896 campaign. he said congressman governor and president and preferred to be called major. he said i don't know about the other titles but that one i earned. >> i wrote about the south carolina delegation, mostly black and poor selling whiskey

cocktails to make money. i wrote about it because i read about it in the newspapers. >> i have a freakish memory. let's see if i get this right. in 2000 before bush was sworn in seeing you on cspan and talking about how mckinley brought in a lot young people. >> an amazing character you'll find in here is a 29-year-old lawyer from lincoln, nebraska who practices law in the same office building with another law five years is senior william jennings brian. together the two men have lunch at camerons, a 15 set diner. this 29-year-old, he's 29 in 1895 and plucked out of

prosecurity. he runs the campaign in illinois, the most critical contest. he takes on the blond boss. the boss of the cook county republican machine and beats the combine. the republican bosses 2-1 at the state convention. he goes on to be the campaign manager at the age of 30. charles g. becomes controller of the currency at the age of 32. first director of the first bureau of the budget. ambassador of great britain and the fourth american to win the nobel peace prize. he plucks them out of the crowd as a young lawyer at the age 29 and says you are the man and not only that but he becomes the son that mckinley never died. >> and two daughters that dies. >> the book is the triumph of william mckinley.

>> you need to have more books so we can have you on more. >> pamphlets work too. roger will let you come over. >> yeah. >> look, if you're a political junkie, this is for you. if you like scandal or one of these tv dramas, everybody shows up and they do the weirdest things. >> okay. there's so many parallels. >> morning show. all right. >>. >> coming up we have a promotion for the new show the third riot. should have thought twice about the subways in new york city. that's next. >> we have rudy giuliani straight ahead. this is more than just a town. this is our home. and small business saturday... is more than just a day. it's our day... to shop small at the places we love...

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a controversial new york city campaign has been pulled has public backlash. yesterday advertising the new drama the man in the higher castle campaigned influenced by notsy germany and imperial japanese designs. the show based in the 1962 novel

that imagines an alternate future in which the powers won warld war 2 and occupied america. while the adds were deemed acceptable under the content guidelines, subway writers, politicians and advocacy politicians objected. new york governor called the adds dispickable. the governor told the new york post i understand the first amendment but i think this goes too far. who would do that? why do they do that? >> people are calling it a pr disaster, it's a huge win for the show. every time someone does the story, they say the name of the show. i'm telling you. >> i don't think so. tom jones the table next on morning joe. can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future.

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at 46 past the hour. joining us now tom and rudy. good to have you both on board this morning. >> tom, let's start with you about whether the united states has a strategy or not against isis and showing up in a very pronounced way in the polls. you have reporting. >> it's one of the things that's striking to me. more than a week after paris at this point or about a week after paris and there's still such a disconnect between the president and his own party. the republicans both on restrictions with the refugees coming in from syria. at the same time it's unseemingly for the republican candidates to be exploiting this just for getting votes. i'll take your 20,000 troops and raise you 20,000 troops. it's not about manpower, it's about strategy.

i've been talking to other people involved and they all say the same thing. we have to get the whole country behind us. the fact is right now we're probably safer in this country than we were before paris because everybody's on alert at this time and the fact is we got people all over new york city and the other urban areas taking a look at what the dangers might be. we've watched more people in school shootings this past year than we'll likely see over the weekend. on the roads over the weekend you're in danger there. it's not to say isis is not danger. it's very sophisticated. to clear it out you have to hold the territory. >> that's the question, mr. mayor. i'm still the first time, iraq and syria will be a long hard slide.

we can't go at it alone. >> tom was right. we have no strategy. yesterday the president appeared with hollande who took quick decisive action which i respect e hencely and talking about getting together on global warming is going to send a signal to isis. you got to be kidding signal t operating a another planet. you should set up a no fly zone and have an international force that controls i. the refugees should be in no fly zones. that's why we have them. we've done it before. france would certainly help us. we know that. russia would help us. we know that. i'm sure webd get the u.k. and others to help us. keep the people leaving syria in syria in a safe place where they

are guarded from both sides of the controversy and then do the best we can to try to get rid of isad and do the best we can to stabilize things in stabilize things in syria. tom is right. this will take five, ten years. somebody has to be able -- >> does america have the stomach for another five years -- >> the question is do we have a leader who will give america the vision to do it? america wanted to quit the civil war in 1863 except we had a leader that said no. america had a hard time getting into the second world war except we had a leader who had a vision about how bad hitler was. it isn't always what the public -- >> we had not fought germany for a decade prior. we've fought in iraq and afghanistan over the past 12, 13 years. americans are war weary. >> i'm not saying war. that's the second step. i am saying a no-fly zone to

solve this imminent crisis of refugees. we have the overwhelming majority of the american people who don't want them in the united states. we've got a problem in europe. the refugees should be kept in syria in a safe place. that would also have us assert some authority. we left a vacuum in syria, power abhors a vacuum. putin moved into it. we should close the vacuum. >> russia is one option. it appeared, tom, as if the president was appealing for support on a multi -- >> there will have to be a ground game. no question about it. i think there has to be real urgency, kind of a sense of alacrity about what we're up against now. if you talk to the national security experts they say we cannot put saudi troops in iraq. but we can get help with the air war against them. at the same time everybody is saying we have to send more troops. that's 1% of our population.

i think it's immoral to send 1% of the population into harm's way over and over again. i would start with a 5 cent gasoline tax. every time you go to the pump you have to think about what's going on elsewhere. we're going to have to finance this. it's going to be very expensive at the same time. it is long curve. there is a clash of cultures going on here. and when you look at paris, the president says he wasn't a mastermind. these are just killers. that was a very sophisticated operation. they kept their communications to themselves, hit simultaneously in several places and they did a lot of damage, not just physically but emotionally as well. so we're dealing with a sophisticated group of people here. >> with a lot of money. >> mayor giuliani. you said you believe isis is an obama creation. those believe the iraqi army was a big part of that, which happened on president bush's

watch. your reaction on that. what should we be doing to battle and tackle the problem of isis? what would you be doing differently in addition to the no-fly zones that this president is not doing? >> first of all, both were a mistake. it confounded me that we got rid of all of sa daddam hussein's infrastructure when we had models to use of what we did in japan, germany, italy. we didn't get rid of all of mussolini's people, hitler's people and the japanese. we didn't get rid of the post master and the policemen on the beat. that was a terrible mistake. and then -- a thousand things kind of came out of that, including the surge. but here is the point. by the time we get to the surge -- talk to general petraeus about this -- we had it under fairly good control, and the president should have moved into syria on day one with some presence, with an american-led coalition. he should have been a player in

syria. he should not have drawn a red line 12 times and backed away. the minute he did that, putin took his measure and said, i got this guy. >> mr. mayor, what are your thoughts on donald trump's concept that thousands cheered in -- >> i was deeply involved in it. i heard reports of such things in new jersey, in new york. i didn't see it. >> you never saw news reports about it, did you? >> i recently saw a "washington post" article -- i've recently saw a "washington post" article that goes back to then describing some kind of celebrations, but i didn't see news reports at the time. i did get reports from the police. >> tom, you were reporting. >> there is no authenticity to that based on what mayors in new jersey saw, what police chiefs saw, what people on the streets saw. no one has come forward and said there were thousands and thousands of people cheering. you also have to remember there was a whole other school.

this was a jewish conspiracy, that this was all arranged by israel and the jews. no one picked up on that because it wasn't true. so, you know, i can't believe that he has stayed with it as long as he has when there is no hard evidence of it occurring at all. >> i mean, the reality is, the night of september 11, i said to the people of new york, you should not assign group blame here, otherwise we're going to be like they are. i want us to be a model. i didn't just rest on that. i took the police and made it part of the program, and we tracked it for a month. we had no serious incidents either way. we had a couple of language things. thank god we didn't have a serious incident. >> mayor rudy giuliani and tom brok brokaw. thank you. we'll be right back.

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up next, what was really behind turkey shooting down a russian war plane? nbc's richard engel reports from turkey. plus, inside the cira. the question of how to protect the homeland divides the people who run the spy service. we hear from all 12 of the agency's living directors.

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i said osama bin laden, have to watch him. bad guy. i watch this stuff. i am like a guy with vision. if we took him out, we'd have two beautiful buildings standing there instead of one okay building, all right? a friend of mine called who is very political. he said, forget that. you're the first guy that really predicted terrorism. i said, in that same book, i said this is what's going to -- because i can feel it. >> good morning. it is wednesday, november 25th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, we have former communications director for president george w. bush nicole wallace, former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner. in washington, columnist and associate editor for the "washington post," david ignatius. that was donald trump on the stump tripling, quadrupling down on some of the stories that concern me. we can talk about that coming

up. should we get to the latest news overnight? >> yeah. but you're -- i'm sure your father is now off of trump, right? >> listen -- >> i'm being sarcastic. >> i think trump won the argument in the eyes of his supporters. i don't think any of his supporters were unsatisfied when he waved around the paragraph in the "washington post." that was enough for his base, and i think he soldiers on. >> i think also, again, we have been talking about it, post-paris, all of the weaknesses that people are seeing, willie, coming from leadership, they see donald trump as the antidote, or good or for bad, better or worse, blah, blah, blah. he's the antidote to weakness. for right now, for most americans, barack obama epitomizes weakness. >> for people who love and support donald trump, they loved what they saw over the last few days. he was defiant, indignant. facts be damned, all this, here

is what i believe. the last two days we've been mired in a debate about whether or not muslim-americans were tailgating on rooftops in patterson, new jersey, 14 years ago. it's a bizarre race. >> if you are looking -- not paying attention to the primaries but you think you'll tune into the generals, does someone who cannot admit they're wrong win or not. >> he doesn't think he's wrong. that's the key. >> he never thinks he's wrong. whe when was the last time donald trump said i was wrong, i made a mistake? can you think of one? he always finds a way to work himself out of situations. >> neither does obama. we have an interesting -- >> i think that, at the end of the day, is the biggest problem with barack obama. if you have a problem with the fact that barack obama can never admit he's wrong, that he can't admit he was wrong, he keeps circling back and even after the paris attacks.

dana millbank calls him o-bummer in talking about how the french president was so much more forceful. yes, if you have a problem with somebody who can't admit they're wrong, that's the one thing donald trump has in common with barack obama. they can't admit they're wrong. that said, every day that goes by that americans consider donald trump weak, that feeds into donald trump. and that's why -- >> obama. >> i'm sorry. every day people think obama is weak in his response, that only makes donald trump more powerful. it's going back to the 1979 example. it is the jimmy carter-ronald reagan example. >> i think this marks -- this is a turning point. this is something that can be used against him. >> really? >> yeah. >> are you writing columns for the "new york times" now? >> no. but we should get into the latest news and also hear what the president had to say along

with the french president yesterday. nato and the u.n. had both seeking calm and warning against escalation after turkey shot down a russian warplane along the border with syria yesterday. the turkish air force says the plane violated their airspace and ignored ten warnings to leave, a claim the u.s. military confirms. the turkish ministry of defense is pointing to a radar image they say shows the path of the plane as it flew over turkey. so-called moderate rebels claim they fired at the pilots as they parachuted to the ground. at least one pilot was killed by gunfire. the russian government says the other pilot was picked up by the syrian army commandos alive and has been returned to russia's air base. the rebels also fired at a russian search and rescue helicopter willing one serviceman. russia has a history of violating airspace in turkey. during yesterday's news conference with the french

president president obama addressed rush's role in syria. >> we have got a coalition of 65 countries who have been active in pushing back against isil for quite some time. rush russia is a coalition of two. iran and russia supporting assad. i think it's important to remember that you have a global coalition organized, russia is the outlier. we hope that they refocus their attention on what is the most substantial threat. and that they serve as a constructive partner. >> global coalition. have we had two of the three at the table going, global coalition? what global coalition. steve rattner, what are they doing if we have a -- what's the president talking about?

>> the president is obviously trying to put the best face on it. when you look, for example, at the number of air strikes that have been flown, the u.s. has flown 80% of the air strikes. we're still bearing the burden. after paris and hollande's round of diplomacy, maybe that will change. right now it's not the most robust coalition you've ever seen. >> david ignatius, we look at this obviously, as do the french, as a concern with obviously -- primarily with isis. but you look throughout the middle east, and, again, as we have said on this show for the past couple of days, isis is a very convenient counter-balance to assad for most of the middle east. and our gulf state neighbors are much more interested in what's going on in yemen than what's going on in syria. >> i think they're still interested in syria and i think they do regard isis as a threat to their countries, to their security. they're not as active members of the coalition as the u.s. would

like, but they're still on board. i think the shoot-down of the russian plane was important because the u.s. had come to feel -- president obama and secretary kerry had both come to feel, with french president hollande and others, that it was important to draw russia more deeply into the coalition, to encourage the russians to move toward greater targeting of isis as opposed to non-isis rebels who were attacking the assad regime and also to draw them into the attempts to get a cease-fire in the syrian civil war so that a broad coalition can concentrate on fighting the terrorist groups. and this shoot-down will make that for difficult. it's interesting that the french president hollande is going directly to moscow. it's interesting that king abdullah of jordan, a close u.s. ally, was with putin in sochi yesterday talking about this, trying to calm him down, in effect, from what we can read. and it was very interesting to

see that president obama, in his remarks yesterday, tried very hard not to escalate the rhetoric. it was clear that he would like to avoid a situation in which this breaks the possibility of working together with russia. >> so let's bring in nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel live in istanbul, turkey. what do you think was really behind the shoot-down of the russian jet? >> reporter: if you listen to the comments that the turkish prime minister just made a short while ago, he was talking about turkmen rebels. this is a rebel group that operates right in that area where the russian plane was shot down yesterday. right along the border between turkey and syria. and turkey's prime minister said that russia should never target this group of syrian rebels, and many people in this country and analysts that i've spoken to believe that that's the real reason why this plane was shot down, because russia has been

targeting turkmen rebels inside syria. this plane, according to the rebels themselves, was involved in an operation targeting the turkmen rebels. and, as the name suggests, the turkmen rebels are ethnic turks. and turkey protects them, sees them as cousins who live across the border in syria. and many people think that the reason this plane was targeted was because of this disagreement. russia considers that group a terrorist organization, and turkey believes it is a group that deserves its protection. >> richard engel, thank you very much. the presidents of france and the united states met at the white house yesterday for the first time since the attacks in paris where president obama praised america's oldest ally and both spoke about their resolve against terrorism. >> when tragedy struck that evening, our hearts broke too. and that stadium and concert hall, in those restaurants and

cafes, we see our own. in the faces of the french people, we see ourselves. we have never forgotten how the french people stood with us after 9/11 and today we stand with you. [ speaking foreign language ] >> as americans we all have a role to play in how we respond to threats. groups like isil cannot defeat us on the battlefield, so they try to terrorize us at home. against soft targets, against civilians, against innocent people. even as we're vigilant, we cannot and we will not succumb to fear. nor can we allow fear to divide us. for that's how terrorists win. americans will not be terrorized. >> hmm. a lot of reaction to this. dana millbank writes in the "washington post," barack obama president o-bummer. the two presidents stood in the

east room yesterday afternoon united in the goal of defeating the islamic state. on the left facing the cameras was francois oaklahollande and e right stood president obama, president o-bummer. there was little difference in their strategies for fighting the islamic state, but hollande was upbeat and can-do while obama was discouraging and lawyerly. it's not as if obama lacks emotion or passion, but when he spoke of war on terrorism, it was to downplay and reassure. maybe you can motivate people when you sound so discouraging, but it's hard. >> it's pretty remarkable that he wrote this column. this is exactly what you said on the phone to me after you saw the president yesterday. you said, he can do this. you've seen him do it in charleston. you have seen him do it after

newton. you have seen him move an entire country, without saying the o-bummer, you basically said the same thing on the phone as dana millbank was writing but you didn't believe it. >> the focus on style is fair. it's a major part of leadership, the tone and the optics. having said that, i think he is trying to strike a balance here that is multi-faceted to say the least. david ignatius, what did you think of the president's comments? because there is a tone issue. do you think it still exists a day later? i know we were very strong on this yesterday, before. >> i had a different reaction to president obama's comments than did my colleague. i thought the restrained tone, at a time of war and crisis, especially with the shoot-down having happened that morning, was entirely appropriate. i thought he invoked the essence

of what american values are and tried to talk not in a petty or political way as he did last week when he was in asia about anti-muslim rhetoric but in a calm way that tried to speak to the country in a period of crisis but didn't inflame sentiment. i think it's appropriate for america -- this country has been hit -- to come with a lot of passion. i didn't find it inappropriate for obama to be more obama-like, more detached. that's who he is. i think at his best. the point that really hit me, mika, as i thought about these events, was the way in which the really inflammatory rhetoric of donald trump -- when i talk to counter-terrorism professionals who are working 24/7 to try to make sure they have contact with muslim-american communities in america and make sure they have trust and people report what

they're hearing and seeing, this kind of rhetoric has a danger of breaking those relationships of trust. i think president obama is trying to speak to those communities in a reassuring way appropriately. that's what our law enforcement and fbi intelligence need in this period. >> i think obama is so blinded by his distaste for the bush years that he can't look at what chuck todd looked at on sunday in "meet the press" when he played clip after clip of george w. bush's leadership in the specific era of understanding who the enemy is and that muslim is a peaceful religion and that we're simply at war against terrorism. i think the democratic leader's inability to call the enemy what it is, radical extremists. his inability to stand in the world's grief and terror and channel anything productive. yesterday the inability to muster any emotions standing

next to a leader who has lost innocent civilians, that is the catalyst for the rise of donald trump. david axelrod said to us, every election is a reaction to the current president. the support for trump is a reaction. >> president obama showing restraint would be fine if president obama had shown any emotion after these attacks instead of being petty and petulant. i would understand a stylistic change, a change in dynamics yesterday, if he had ever shown any real emotion instead of petulant attacks against crazies on the far right who are irrelevant at the end of the day. >> i agree with all of that. his comments during his trip abroad were obviously not handled well. that exacerbated whatever you thought about yesterday. at the end of this the question

is what are we going to do. what the country and part of the reaction to trump is trump says i'm going to do stuff. people want action. they want to see some response. they want to see us do something to deal with isis, and i think it's up to the president now to figure out what his strategy is and articulate it. i don't think he's done that yet. still ahead. donald trump defies gravity and stays on top of the polls in spite of more controversial comments. plus. >> you're sitting in the middle of nowhere in nevada and you're looking at a screen that is televising what looks for all the world like a big video game. and push a button, and a pickup truck explodes in afghanistan. half a world away. >> if they're bad guys and they're doing us harm, i have no problem with that. >> hmm. from drone warfare to enhanced interrogation. a new documentary pulls back the curtain on the cia seen through the eyes of all 12 of the

agency's living directors. >> wow! you interviewed cia directors. >> this will be really good, what we're about to see. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> busy travel day tomorrow. a storm is moving through the west. a lot of snow yesterday in the mountainous areas of the cass kaidz and sierra. the video out of reno and tahoe is dramatic stuff. heading for the central plains. the snow forecast today over wyoming. tomorrow it will be into colorado. some spills out into the plains. for the travel today, the worst of it, blue is the snow. the green, airports, we like it. everywhere east of the mississippi and east of the rockies, no problems at all today. snow likely, if you have one bad drive it will be interstate 15 north into montana. the pink is the possibility of

ice, maybe even an ice storm around wichita, western kansas. denver will be a nightmare. interstate 25, a little bit of ice and snow, and then you'll have windchills in the teens with highs in the 20s. that's the travel trouble on thursday. that will head east in the form of rain for friday. the bottom line is, if you can travel today, do it. it looks like a much better day in the central plains today than tomorrow. leaving you with a shot of washington, d.c. i-95 has not seen better travel weather than this. more "morning joe" when we come back.

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oh, no. [ cheers and applause ]

>> this is what i call a real supporter. wow! thank you, man. are you married? >> right over there. >> are you happy with your husband? she said yes! she fantasizes that he is really the real donald trump. can you believe it? >> oh, my god. >> he didn't say that. >> no, he just said that. >> donald trump is sticking to his story. >> come on. >> this we can talk about. sticking to a story that thousands of people celebrated in new jersey as the twin world trade center towers well on 9/11. last night at a rally in south carolina he again red aloud from a september 2001 "washington post" story that referenced reports of people celebrating the attacks. trump has used that article as evidence despite the fact that

the new jersey attorney general says at the time definitively that reports of people dancing on rooftops and in the streets were false and that the celebrations never happened. >> i took a little bit of heat. carson said, yes, he saw it, and then he said no, no, his mind wasn't thinking right and took it back. i took heat because i said in new jersey and in jersey city -- i said very strongly and very correctly -- i said there are people over there, and they were dancing in the street. and they were dancing on rooftops. so what happens is the "washington post" writes an article. they're talking about northern new jersey draws -- written by a nice reporter. you have to see this guy. now -- "i don't know what i said! i don't remember! maybe that's what i said." this is 14 years ago. they didn't do a retraction.

>> oh, my god. >> trump -- you guys! if it wasn't such a serious issue, i would -- you can't. >> no. i just thought his imitation was funny. >> no! >> there is one element of truth to what trump is saying that is true and funny because the poor "washington post" reporter writes this at the time. now he is really, willie, backing up and going, i don't know. if he didn't see it, he wouldn't put it in the newspaper. this is what people always do. they overreact to donald trump's overreaction. and in overreacting to donald trump's overreaction, whether it was the joke he said about mccain or -- remember, it was a list of things every sunday. the mainstream media overreact and give him a kernel of truth to hold on.

now, willie, everybody is saying nobody danced on rooftops. the "washington post" article says they did. >> the article didn't say that. the article said police were investigating reports that this had happened. >> that they actually took people into custody because they were having, what, tailgating parties or whatever? the point is, though, it's in the "washington post." just say they investigated it and it may have been a handful of people and trump is exaggerating it to a thousand people. everybody is going around going, it never happened. if it never happened, willie, why did the "washington post" report on it? >> they reported that the police were looking into and kre investigating it. i can't believe we're still talking about this. there was a litany of things trump either did or said or retweeted over the weekend including statistics about what black on white crime, they were completely incorrect. finally people said enough is

enough. we should have learned by now there is never enough to be enough by donald trump. >> that's the point. the point is that donald trump can continue to say this stuff, which is so far from reality, so far from the truth and his poll numbers only go up or stay roughly where they are. coming up on "morning joe" a new report goes around the globe to rank the best places for younger people to get ahead. what are the best cities in the u.s. when you're young, and how do we stack up against the rest of the world? that's ahead. but first. >> united states of america has been incredibly effective at stopping terrorists from attacking us since 9/11. what we haven't done a very good job of is stopping new terrorists from being created. and until we get our arms around that, this war is not going away. >> we'll talk to the writer and director of the new showtime documentary on the secretive world of the cia. it looks incredible. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." proud of you, son.

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33 past the hour. public policy polling has released a holiday-themed 2016 poll. >> all right! >> at 24%, hillary clinton is the top candidate who voters would like to have over for thanksgiving dinner. that's actually a really good

sign. it's like who do you want to have a beer with. >> yeah. yeah. yeah. >> followed by ben carson and donald trump. at 18% and 17% each. as for who would ruin the meal, donald trump hands down the favorite -- i do not agree with that. >> mika has been tough on donald this morning. >> i have been because he has been wrong about some things. >> we can echo what hillary clinton said when asked if she'd go to his wedding. she said because he's fun. like that, you want donald trump at your thanksgiving dinner because you will be entertained for an hour. love him or hate him, you -- >> donald trump and i have disagreed before. i often disagree with him and he handles it quite well. >> handles it quite well. >> pageants. looking at president obama's pardoning two turkeys last year instead of one.

only 11% of republicans agreed with sparing both mac and cheese. did i just read that? >> you did. this is a country divided down the middle over turkeys. >> alex, you put that in the wrong show. >> she is live at the new york stock exchange. sarah, what are you watching out of the holiday? >> good news if you're planning a road trip. we're watching the price of gas, which is 75 cents lower than this time last year. prices at the pump have been falling all year long. in fact, aaa says that more than half of u.s. gas stations are selling gas right now for less than $2 a gallon, putting the national average at $1.99. that is good news. >> that saves consumers so much money. it's not great for the oil patch or oil stocks. it's a lot of money in consumers' pocket. >> right. the hope is they would take the extra gas savings and spend it which gets to our other big sector we're watching, the

retailers. we're seeing what they're doing with the savings is spending a little bit on restaurants and food but not as much on retail and apparel. that's been one of the trickier things economists have been trying to figure out. they've also been saving more, which is a good thing. speaking of retail, thanksgiving, the new tradition is retailers are open tomorrow, starting middle of the day, through the evening. a lot of big department stores will be open. jc penney, old navy. macy's, kohl's, dick's. a lot of the mall operators are forcing small stores to actually open on thanksgiving or else facing fines because you can't have malls that are half open. if the anchor stores decide to be open, they force everybody else to do so as well. >> thank you, sarah. >> that's crazy. up next, spy masters for the first time the 12 living former directors of the cia speak out about how to keep america safe. the writer and director of the

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"the metro has really changed my life." >> has the cia become a secret army? a killing machine? >> you're sitting in the middle of nowhere in nevada, and you're looking at a screen that is televising what looks for all the world like a big video game. and push a button and a pickup truck explodes in afghanistan. half a world away. >> if they're bad guys and they're doing us harm, i have no problem with that. >> now the dark side. you can't be perfect. there is collateral damage. we feed the jihadi recruitment

video that these americans are heartless killers. >> that was a look at the new showtime documentary, "the spymasters" c.i.a. in the cross-hairs an unprecedented inside look at america's spy agency. joining us the film's director and the writer and executive director chris whipple. good to have you both. >> you guys have the 12 living cia directors. who is the hardest to get in front of the camera? >> george tenet without a doubt. the first interview we were lucky to get george h.w. bush as the first interview. he is passionate about the cia and the cia employees. tenet was the last holdout. he hasn't really talked about this in eight years. he is a larger than life, fascinating character. imagine if you had, on your watch, if you warned about 9/11, you had the attacks of 9/11. the enhanced interrogation

program and weapons of mass destruction all on your watch. >> yeah. unbelievable. what we've heard time and time again is that 9/11 was a failure of intelligence. you guys blow that theory out of the water. there is a july 10th, 2001, meeting where the head of the al qaeda unit, richard blee, comes in and says that the roof has just fallen in, they're coming to get us and a lot of americans are going to die. three months before 9/11. >> it's a chilling picture that george tenet and the head of the counter-terrorism center paint of those months. inexplicably the july 10 meeting is not mentioned by the 9/11 commission even though tenet testified about it behind closed doors. the head of the al qaeda unit came in and said the roof is falling in. george tenet picks up the phone to the white house. they go see condoleezza rice and lay out all the intelligence

pointing to imminent attacks, spectacular attacks, they could be here in the u.s. and black pounded his fist on the table and said, we have to go on a war footing now. >> listen to this quote. it's very evident. "we're going to be struck. we're going to be struck hard, and lots of americans are going to die." >> you know, what was fascinating about doing this program is, whenever you do a documentary, especially with people who normally don't speak and talk about not speaking, this is the cia we're talking about. secrets are their business. but to be able to have all of them and to have a candid assessment of their spies program, the drones and interrogati interrogation. >> by the way, the sharp divide. that's what people don't understand about the cia is they are as divided as americans on drones, on enhanced interrogation techniques. that all comes out in this movie. >> that's the beauty of it. the cia is seen -- general

hayden, kind of a bipolar way we look at it. the people think jack barrow or jack the ripper. these are real human beings making incredibly difficult decisions. we might agree or disagree with them but what's great is we get to see themxplain their reasoning. >> that's incredible! >> what was the most provocative, visceral reaction, you got from any of the directors or perhaps -- >> or what shocked you the most? >> i think it was shocking to learn that the cia director makes life-and-death decisions almost every day. leon panetta tells us this riveting account of how he was at the funeral of a cia officer in arlington and he gets the call that they have in the cross-hairs of a drone over pakistan a major terrorist but there are women and children in the shot as he put it.

a former altar boy, always carries his rosary beads. he aggonizes on whether to pull the trigger. they say it's all on you. he says thanks a lot. we watch him make this agonizing decision. and it's -- it's fascinating to see these -- i mean, every act of the film is an ethical dilemma for every cia director. >> did you have preconceived notions about the cia and did anything change for you after this remarkable experience? >> oh, yes. i think i was, like most of the public i had my own bipolar view. you only hear -- that's the thing with the cia. you only hear about the mistakes. you never hear about the successes. i think to discover the humanity especially, not only of the directors but the top operatives. the head of the counter-terrorism center, gina bennett, an amazing analyst, a woman among all these men who

was working in the bin laden deal and to see the dedication. the directors said they feel a little bit like saul berrensen in "homeland." there is a bit of carry without the drinking and promiss cuus. the quality of their work and the passion was very revealing. >> before we go here is now former director leon panetta reacted to a hypothetical about whether he would ever use torture as an interrogation tactic. >> you have to look at it in context. if in fact you had a credible intelligence that there was a nuclear weapon planted someplace in new york city or washington, d.c. and there was one person that would know where that bomb was located, it would be very tough not to resort to every method possible in order to get

that information. >> and there is the divide. willing to do it in 2002, right after 9/11. not willing to do it in 2014. here we are in 2015. this is suddenly extraordinarily timely. you can feel the scales tipping back towards possibly to enhanced interrogation techniques. >> absolutely. the directors are bitterly divided on that subject. news for donald trump is that i think every director, to a person, would say we're not going to go down that road and water-board anybody again. mike hayden says, if a future president wants to order us to water-board someone he better bring his own bucket because it's not going to happen again. >> the spy masters: cia in the cross-hairs. appears 9:00 p.m. on showtime. thank you so much. congratulations. >> thank you for having us. up next, whitney houston

probably said it best. i believe the children are the future. a new report takes a look at what cities around the world are doing to help the next generation get ahead. we'll be right back. ♪

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foundation offers an in-depth look at the trends driving young people's economic prospects and some really interesting findings about the pay gap. joining us now the president of the city foundation brandy mchale. brandy, haunchithank you for co. i'm going to jump right to the gender gap. you found something stunning about millennialials and the issue of equal pay between men and women. what did you find? >> we tried to conduct a deep-dive look at 35 cities around the world and understand the connection about young people's economic future and the places where they live. a piece of this included conducting a survey of 5,000 young people to go directly to them to understand what it is that they're experiencing today and how they feel about the future. the survey helped us to uncover this pay gap that young men earn 20% more across the board in all

35 cities than young women. >> mika assumes things are getting easier for millennials and tells people that but that's not the case. the data is bad for women. >> i think, as a working woman myself and as the mother of a 16-year-old daughter, this concerns me. and i think it just reminds us that we can't assume that this challenge has been resolved and that we can't be complacent. and that there are things we need to do today to level the playing field so that we realize the full potential for both young men and women. >> so for the first time in nine years i'm going to ask this question. what do we need to do that thailand is doing? thailand and canada, the narrowest pay gap. i say it facetiously but what about those two countries? what are they doing to narrow the pay gap? >> i think you have hit on what's really at the core of this study, is that we can learn things from other places, and

that the study wasn't meant simply to just rank cities to say who is doing good and who is doing bad. in those places what we find is that, a, there is awareness. both employers and policy makers are aware of these issues and they're actively trying to address the issue. >> what's the number one thing american cities can be doing to narrow the pay gap and to give young people a better chance of having higher wages and better opportunities? the biggest takeaway. >> i think that what we've seen is this idea of the millennial mindset that every young person wants to be their own entrepreneur, it's true. we found that in our study as well. more than 75% of the young people we spoke to said, yes, they want to work for themselves. but what they also talked about and put equal weight on was the idea of internships and apprenticeships. what this tells us is that young people today realize that their career path is not necessarily going to be a straight line like we may have had and that they

need to be ready for many different experiences. and creating that on-ramp into the professional world of work through internships may be the most important thing that we can do in cities. >> amen. by the way, your sense of hope here and optimism, a lot of older americans who are discouraged, 75% of the people citi surveyed, optimistic about their future. that's good news. >> brandy mchale. thank you so much. it was great working with you guys on "know your value." up next we'll find out what if anything we learned today. >> we learned a lot! >> a lot. ♪ santa? ♪ (flourish spray noise) ho, ho, ho! dad...what are you doing? i am not your dad... i am santa claus. then who's that? ♪ this holiday, share the joy of real cream... (flourish spray noise) share the joy of real cream... ...with reddi-wip. ♪ (flourish spray noise) ♪

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maybe so. time to talk about "morning joe." we learned a lot today. mika, i want to know about something exciting happening at washington, d.c. the krieger museum. >> you should go. if you want to see "lament" a huge, massive, incredible sculpture made by that artist there, my mother. unveiled last week. judy krieger and the krieger family at the krieger museum. everybody behind this. it's the most beautiful sculpture i have ever seen. it's in the center circle and at every stage of the day it's absolutely stunning. >> it is absolutely stunning. thank you so much to the krieger family, the krieger museum. there we see the entire family there. what a special, special exhibit. >> my parents were so happy. she remembered to thank my dad. >> she thanked him first.

>> harold, what did you learn? >> congratulations to your mother. happy thanksgiving. >> what did you learn today? >> that's it. have a wonderful thanksgiving. >> have a great thanksgiving. >> cia is a better place than people think. that would be my big takeaway. >> thank you so much. greatly appreciate you watching it. we are deeply thankful that you allow us to do this every single day. it is a great, great honor. the biggest thanks to everybody that makes this happen, out here in and the control room. everybody except louis. i had to end on a low note. we were being way too nice. >> what time is it, joe? >> it's "morning joe." stick around. nbc live picks up coverage. louis, we love you. good morning. i am josé díaz-balart. we begin with new developments from chicago where more protests are expected today, including one at city hall after police were ordered to release the chilling dash cam video showing the fatal shooting of a chicago teen by a police officer. hundreds demon