the case. and thank them and thank whoever it is you thank for having the opportunity to be around them. and i want to take the opportunity to wish all of you a very happy, healthful, joyful thanksgiving. and this is our third ever thanksgiving eve here on "all in." so i want to thank you, the viewers, for coming back night after night and to all the amazing staff and crew here who make this show happen. i'm very grateful to be able to do this job. the rachel maddow show starts right now. >> aim very grate that do you this job, too. >> thank you, rachel. >> thank you, happy thanksgiving to you and your family, chris. >> you, too. >> thanks to you at home for joining us tonight. great to be with you. on the eve of the holiday break, i should tell that you as you could just tell, chris hayes was doing his show live after my show tonight, lawrence o'donnell is also going to be here live, so, officially, i know that we are sort of -- nearing the holiday break, but your holiday break does not start until after lawrence's live show is over

tonight. so, buckle in. this is sometime technically part of a school night, which makes me all the more happy that you're here. in 2004, our friend al sharpton, who now works here at msnbc, al has a show here sunday mornings at msnbc, al sharpton as you may remember in 2004, he ran for the democratic nomination for president of the united states that year. al sharpton did not win that nomination, but his campaign was a hoot. and every debate he was in was a better debate and a lot more fun because he was in it. and during his campaign for the presidency in 2004, the reverend al sharpton was asked to host "saturday night live." and he said yes and naturally, he did great. look at him. it's great. but that invitation and in accepting that invitation that led to an interesting tv asterisk in the 2004 presidential campaign that year, because it led to an equal time claim from one of al sharpton's

competitors in the democratic race that year. basically, the fcc rules kick in after an appearance like that because al sharpton did not have to pay for all that air time on nbc that saturday night in the 2004 campaign. and it wasn't just nbc or some other network covering him as a news story, it wasn't a interview with him as a candidate, it was this other thing that nbc did on its comedy show that he did not have to pay to be there for. and so, under the rules, that gave all the other candidates running against him for the democratic nomination, it gave them the opportunity to say, formally and legally, hey, we want just as much time as you just gave to al sharpton. give us equal time. or in the case of the 2004 race, the way it went down, it was give me equal time. because the only candidate who put in an equal-time claim after al sharp top hosted "saturday night live" that year was -- mr. charisma himself, joe lieberman.

remember joe lieberman was a democrat, kind of? joe lieberman was successful in his equal-time claim in the for you with campaign. and what that meant a was that nbc affiliates in a couple of states, i don't know why it was only a couple of states, but i think it was only two states and weirdly, it was missouri and california for some reason, that reason seemed to be lost in history, but nbc affiliates in those states had to spend part of their saturday night showing a scintillating joe lieberman town hall on the subject of taxes for exactly the same amount of time that they had shown al sharpton being hilarious on "saturday night live." so, great deal for joe lieberman's campaign. not really a great deal for anybody else. but them's the rules, that's how it works. now it is a decade later, this time the more fascinating than most candidates is a very different kind of candidate it is donald trump and donald trump, too, was asked to host "saturday night live" during his

run for the presidency this year. mr. trump hosted "saturday night live" earlier this month on november 7th. and we wondered at the time whether or not any of the othered republican candidates would put in a claim for equal time and we know that five donald trump competitors, five candidates for the republican nomination did put in claims for equal time. one of them, george chris christie, is apparently still negotiating the terms of his equal time claim. but four of the candidates have now resolved the issue with nbc and now today, for the first time, we are starting to get an inkling of what they are going to get. so, buckle up for the holiday break because it's going to involve a whole lot more jim gilmore than you were expecting. donald trump got 12 minutes and 5 seconds of air time when he hosted "saturday night live." and so, 12 minutes and maybe the five seconds, too, 12 minutes, at least is about to be dished out for free to jim gilmore, who

is still running, mike huckabee who is still running, john kasich, who is still running and lindsey graham, who is still running. and i feel the need to tell that you they are all still running because you otherwise might not know. these are not high-tier, top-tier, high falutin candidates, john kasich edging toward that for a while. now they are all sort of at the bottom of that stack of pancakes. and here's how we think it's going to happen for those little pancakes. in -- this is amazing. this is amazing. part of what your holiday break is going to be like. in primetime on friday night, primetime is 8 p.m. to 11 p.m., primetime fry die in the and primetime saturday night, again, 8 p.m. to 11 p.m., and then also later that night, during "saturday night live," right, after primetime, a late-night show, so, friday primetime, saturday, primetime and saturday late night this weekend, right after thanksgiving, 18 nbc broadcast stations in iowa, new hampshire and south carolina are going to have to air 48 solid

minutes of jim gilmore, lindsey graham, mike huckabee and john kasich. now, apparently, it is not going to be done joe lieberman style. they are not going to each get a show that's 12-minute chunk of a scintillating town hall. apparently, the way they work it had out, going to work with each of those four candidates, they all get their 12 minutes but they get them broken up. the way they are getting them broken up, they will all get to run ads on those networks. on those affiliates, those nbc stations. but in order to make up the full 12 minutes, it means they are going to run a lot of ads. and what we think is actually going to happen is that each of those four candidates is going to get to run, for free, one 30-second ad, but they get to run it 24 times over the course of friday night and saturday night. and each of them gets to do it if you watch one of the

stations, friday and saturday night, you will see the same jim gilmore ad 24 times, the same mike huckabee ad 24 times, the same john kasich ad 24 times and lindsey graham 24 times. they are not running a lot of ads, all those guys deep down in the polls, one of the fascinating things about this settlement that they have apparently just come to today is that we really have no idea what these guys are going to run with this time that they are being given for free. i mean, not like there are a lot of national mike huckabee tv ads thought this year we can choose from to see what he might rerun. we contacted all of the campaigns to find out what they are going to do with their bonanza of 24 free ads in the three early states. the jim gilmore campaign told us tonight they have never run an ad before so they are making one right now, they are still cooking it tonight. we don't even know what it's going to be about. i'm not sure they know yet. in ohio, "the columbus dispatch"

asked that state's governor asked ohio's governor, john kasich, his plans for what he is going to do with his 12 minutes of free ad time, his 24 free ads, his campaign would not tell the dispatch what they are planning on nor would they tell us. if you think about it because he has the ad time courtesy of donald trump, one might expect it could be poetic justice if john kasich decided to use his free ad time in the states to run a 30-second version of this web ad that was put together by his campaign specifically for the purpose of dissing donald trump. >> i would like anyone who is listening to consider some thoughts that i paraphrased from the words of german pastor mart were knee muller. you might not care if donald trump says muslims must rebel gist we are their government because you're not one.

and you might not care if donald trump says he is going to round up all the hispanic imgrants because you're not one. and you might not care if donald trump says it's okay to rough up black protesters because you're not one. and you might not care if donald trump wants to suppress journalists because you're not one. but think about this. if he keeps going and he actually becomes president, he might just get around to you and you better hope that there's someone left to help you. >> you wouldn't know it, but that is a john kasich for president ad. it's an anti-donald trump ad purely, as you saw there. it is just slightly over a minute. as far as i can tell with this

equal time claim, that is about to come due on friday and saturday night, john kasich, mike huckabee, john jill more, lindsey graham will all be cashing in their free air time with a repeateded 30-second ad that will air 24 times over the course of two nights in primetime. i mean, maybe john kasich will cut that ad down to a 30-second version, we don't yet know. friday night and saturday night in iowa, south carolina and new hampshire are about to experience a whole ton of some previously very obscure, very invisible republican presidential candidates. and they are all getting it for free. thanks, mr. trump. we got lots more ahead tonight. stay with us. sure, tv has evolved over the years.

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that we were going to get a response, but tonight, we got a response and an answer, ask and ask and ask and you will finally get something at the last minute. this is a story about the ted cruz for president campaign. the response from the campaign to our reporting is really not what i was expecting, but that story, includinged campaign's response, is next, stay with us. it takes a lot of work... to run this business. i'm on the move all day long... and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste. i don't plan on slowing down any time soon.

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where today, he made news related to his car. all the kenyan officials who had come to greet him traveled to the airport in big, shiny mercedeses and suvs, but the pope he rolled off in a tiny gray honda. this is a three-country tour for the pope. he starts in kenya, he ends in war-torn central african republic. in between, on friday, he is go going to head to uganda. in uganda, it is expected the pope might have tough words on the issue of government corruption. in addition to that the gay community in uganda is hoping that pope francis might, on this visit, take the opportunity to preach tolerance on the issue of sexuality or at least he might speak out against the frequent and fairly horrific violence faced by lgbt ugandans. few places in the world where it is harder to be gay than uganda. a few years ago that country came very close to enacting a law that prescribed the death penalty for homosexuality. we covered the fight over that bill extensively on this show, not just because of the extreme nature of that bill but because the architects of it were

americans, radical, anti-gay american preachers went to uganda and lectured ugandan politicians on the evils and dangers of sexuality and told them how uganda needs to take drastic action to stop this terrible we were homosexual agenda from invading their country. and that's where the kill the gays bill came from in uganda. it was american anti-gay, right-wing preachers going to that country to sell what they couldn't get here. >> is that an american pastor named kevin swan sim, him speaking in 2012 during the fight over the kill the gays bill in uganda, there wishing everybody would calm down about that kill the gays bill because,

in fact, the bible says gay people should be killed. if that voice, that guy sounds familiar to you, it may be because he is the same pastor who hosted a really big political event in iowa this year, an event that also, at time, veered back into impassioned kill the gays territory. >> yes, leviticus 20:13 calls for the death penalty for homosexuals. yes, romans chapter 1:32, the apostle paul does say that homosexuals are worthy of death, his words, not mine. and i am not ashamed of the gospel of jesus christ. and i am not ashamed of the truth of the word of god and i am willing to go to jail for

standing on the truth of the word of god. and i know i've taken the counsel, many told me this weekend, you be careful, you choose your words carefully. we have presidentials coming down to this conference this weekend. i understand that. but i am not ashamed of the truth of the word of god. and i'm willing to go to jail for it. then they ask me, yes, but do you advocate for our civil leaders to do this today? and my anticipate is no. but why? here's why. because that's not such a big

deal. we are not to fear those who can kill the body. yea, jesus says fear rather the one who can cast body and soul in hell forever. the discussion concerning the capital punishment and homosexuals is nothing, is not all that important when contrasted with hell fire forever. you say why wouldn't you call for it? i say it's because we need some time for homosexuals to repent. that's why. >> that's why. very kind of him to give the

homosexuals the time to repent before the executions start. >> this is the highest level, the very highest level of clarity where the word of god has spoken, both old testament and new testament are not to be any debate whatsoever about it, and you know what that sin is, it is a sin of homosexuality. romans 1, first corinthians chapter 6, first timothy, i think it's chapter 4 and of course, leviticus 18 and leviticus 20, the word of god speak there is both -- in fact, romans chapter 1, paul affirms that this particular sin is worthy of death in romeness chapter 1. >> over 1700 people attended that conference a couple of weeks ago in iowa and a significant theme of the event was the practical challenges and the timing and the sequencing of how exactly and when exactly the united states of america should start rounding up gay people to execute them because the

appropriate punishment for the crime of being gay is that the government should have you killed, just a question of whether we do it now or whether we do it later. and here's where this all becomes important to american law and politics today, because at that conference, that conference, where you saw that person speaking, kevin swanson personally welcomed to the stage, that same stage where he called for gay people to be executed, if not now then after they have time to repent, he brought to the stage with him at that event three republican presidential candidates, one of whom has since dropped out, that was bobby jindal. one of whom was mike huckabee, who is getting about as much traction in the presidential race as i am, he didn't even make the main debate stage the last debate. but then there was the third one, ted cruz. and ted cruz is not a nobody in the race anymore, as ben carson fades, ted cruz is making huge gains in the polls, especially in iowa. he has been working diligently over the last few moments to court specifically the evangelical votes, held what he calls rallies for religious liberty at megachurches, the

deeply conservative bob jones university in south carolina, appeared at events like kevin swan anson's death penalty for homosexuality discussion event. he touted endorsements from 200 faith leaders, talked about one of this show last night, troy newman, head of a radical anti-abortion group, operation cue, decades of ties to anti-abortion extremists, including the vice president of that group being a convicted clinic bomber who spent time in prison for that. the cruz campaign didn't respond to our request for comment on the endorsement of his proud welcoming of the endorsement of troy newman from operation rescue or our request for specific don't on troy newman's book that calls for abortion doctors to be put to death in this country. when we asked the cruz campaign a couple of weeks ago for comment on kevin swanson's kill the gays sermon at the conference where he hosted senator ted cruz and interviewed him on the stage, ted cruz's national spokesman, rick tyler, wrote back to us, this, "send me

a video or audio where he explicitly says this and i will look at it" great. so we did, we sent along that video of kevin swanson, the one we just showed you, a transcript of those remarks and then mr. tyler responded with just two words. "not explicit." the implication being, i think that kevin swanson was not, in the eyes of the ted cruz campaign, explicitly enough, calling for the execution of homosexuals in the united states and therefore, it doesn't require a response. today, we asked mr. tyler if he had any further comment on this matter. he responded as follows, "i'd invite to you look at senator cruz's remarks to ellen page at the iowa state fair, where cruz is speaking for himself about what he believes instead of trying to hold him accountable for something he did not say nor believes." in that conversation with the actress ellen page this summer, mr. cruz said, in part, if ellen page were really concerned about discrimination against gay people, she should ask president obama why he continues to send funds to regimes that execute

gay people. but this statement today from the cruz campaign is, in fact, the closest we have had to an explanation from him as to what he was doing there with the kill the gays pastor at this event that featured extensive discussions of the death penalty as the only just punishment for homosexuality. and it should be noted that kevin swanson, the guy who interviewed ted cruz and hosted the conference, he was not the only personality this conference who was openly advocating the death penalty for homosexuality, another pastor named phillip caser, you might that name because during the last presidential election, the ron paul campaign proudly touted phillip caser's support on their website for a while until somebody dug up a pamphlet written by mr. kayer is which called for executing gay people in america because of biblical law. the paul campaign promptly scrubbed than dorzment from the website, the pam threat exists and phillip kayer is was at this national religious liberties conference last weekend attended by these three republican

presidential candidates, he was manning a table there he was handing out his pamphlet. a reporter from right wing watch wrote about seeing him there, sent us a photo of it, helpfully, geotagged at the des moines city center on friday morning around the time that mike huckabee was on stage with the kill the gays pastor guy. here's just a sampling from the pamphlet, "it is not just the sinfulness of homosexuality that is known but also the justice of the death penalty for homosexuality." "the results would not be as dire as people often predict. for example, while many homosexuals would be executed, it would not be nearly as many as critics try to imply because homosexuals would likely keep silent about their lifestyle." if they knew they would be killed in america if people knew they were gay, right? see, don't worry, there won't be too many mass executions once this law goes into effect because the fear of execution will keep gay people in the closet. it's kind of a side benefit. pastor phillip kayer is was not

just some cooke on the edges handing out literature for this thing, the schedule for the event attended by three presidential candidates lists him as speaking at three separate events at that conference. it's not necessarily news anymore that there are people like this on the right who view homosexuality, according to their version of publicly ordained judicial principles, but it is news, always news when people from the purported mainstream of american politics, people who are vying to be the next president of the united states, show up at events like this and speak from the same stage where pastors are justifying the death penalty for gay americans. i mean, i'm not sure anybody wants to ask bobby jindal anymore now that's back to just being governor of louisiana for five minutes and not sure anybody wants to ask mike huckabee because mike huckabee is not all that relevant in the campaign. but for ted cruz, he can't really say he didn't know what was going on at that conference there and is a case to be made he should be ready to answer some real questions about it. even before they got 3% back on gas,

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why are you not asking president obama, why are you sending $100 billion to the ayatollah khomeini who murders homosexuals? you want to talk about an assault on gay rights, how about not murdering the homosexuals? >> how about it, senator cruz, how about not murdering the homosexuals? senator cruz said that apparently without irony a week after appearing at an event in iowa that had, for a significant

theme, the practical challenge of when and how the u.s. should start rounding up gay people in this country for execution because biblical law demands it. tonight, the ted cruz campaign gave us the closest thing we had to a explanation what the senator was doing at that the kill the gays event in iowa, i expect ours will not be the last question on this subject. joining us is joy reed, msnbc correspondent. i was so happy you were in new york tonight and you could be here. >> thank you. thank you. >> liability, not for ted cruz on this sore this one of those things he only sees upside? >> i think that for ted cruz, he is attempting to do on the religious right what donald trump has managed to do in the blue collar wing of the republican party, meaning that he is the guy who is going to speak sort of the deep truths, unfiltered by political correctness. and i think that you do have a market among members of the religious right for, if not that

kind of extreme speech, more straight talk what they feel is the den anything glacial of their liberties as christians and that paranoia, that sense of being left behind, including by the republican party, which has promised for deck this case it was going to do things like outlaw gay marriage, like outlaw abortion and do things the christian right wants and they never delivered. >> the difference though or maybe not the difference it is not qualitative difference, maybe a quantitative difference, is that what -- these endorsements that ted cruz just announced, the event he has gone to be a lawyer the endorsement from the operation rescue guy is called for the death of abortion providers in this country who the vice president of this organization is a convicted clinic bomber touted the endorsement of a guy who is a convicted stalker of abortion doctors, the endorsement of another past here says he doesn't hate gays, wants to save gays because then, i'll quoting, they will stop being hoe mmos a refusing to denounce the kill

the gay comments from this guy, siding with kim davis, saying i want to -- the federal constitution on gay marriage this kind of political stuff is one thing, but he is really -- he is thought into the violent edge. >> he is and i am struck as you're describing those incredibly extreme incredibly troubling things he is associating himself with the a poe plexcy the comments pastor jeremiah wright was greeted in 2008 and the vast difference and scrutiny whether or not the comments meant then-candidate barack obama was some sort of a radical, black nationalist radical intending to foist himself off on the united states and the ease with which ted cruz has been able to navigate so far, other than yourself, not being held to account necessarily for these views, some of the more extreme views like this unfortunately do find an audience. fed cruz, we can call it desperation, whatever you want, ambition to get ahead in the

republican party, is saying he will take any pocket of this religious right piece because he can take it from ben carson, he can take what little mike huckabee has and he can corral that third and then if he can combine that third with being able to take donald trump's third once, you know, in the imagination of a lot of republicans, somehow trump disappears, he's got two-thirds of that republican three-legged stool. i think the calculation is literally that cynical. >> the question is, as it is with donald trump and immigrants and on race and refugees and some other things, the question is whether, when they get this far out to do something like that, whether there is any small g governor in the republican party that says actually that is a place you can't go and with him, at least, we have not seen it yes. msnbc national correspondent, joy reid, great to have you here, particularly on the eve of a holiday break. thank you. >> happy thanksgiving. >> appreciate it. thankful for u and we have got a best new thing ahead. i'm thankful for that too. we will be right back. and we best new thing ahead. i'm thankful for that too. we will be right back. y and wea

best new thing ahead. i'm thankful for that too. we will be right back. o and we a best new thing ahead. i'm thankful for that too. we will be right back. u and wet a best new thing ahead. i'm thankful for that too. we will be right back. i use what's already inside me to reach my goals. so i liked when my doctor told me i may reach my blood sugar and a1c goals by activating what's within me. with once-weekly trulicity. trulicity is not insulin. it helps activate my body to do what it's supposed to do release its own insulin. trulicity responds when my blood sugar rises. i take it once a week, and it works 24/7. it comes in an easy-to-use pen and i may even lose a little weight. trulicity is a once-weekly injectable prescription medicine to improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. it should be used along with diet and exercise.

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newspapered plans their front pages for tomorrow, fully expecting that nobody will read tomorrow's front pages and everybody flipping flew to the front pages and sales coupons instead, president obama quietly signed basically the same defense bill he vetoed before because, among other thing, it blocked him from taking steps to close get know. the president put out a statement expressing his dismay about the guantanamo provisions but he did just sign it. so, tomorrow, another thing to watch for in your undercovered thanksgiving news will be particularly poignant because a group of activists is due to stage a big protest a fast at the perimeter fence in guantanamo in cuba, something activists did a decade ago, ten years ago as well, a bunch of american activists snuck into cuba basically illegally and protested outside the gates of guantanamo, marched across cuba 70 miles to engage in that civil disobedience ten years ago against guantanamo, a little bit of a surprise then back in 2005 when the bush administration

decided no to prosecute them for preaching the u.s. travel ban on cuba. but now it is ten years late entered a u.s. travel been a to cuba is basically gorge the activists this time around will not be facing that kind of legal jeopardy, it is likely to cause some military consternation that these folks are planning to set up basically a tent city right on the outskirt, right outside the perimeter fence of guantanamo. they are due to be there tonight and they are due to start their fast there at the gates of guantanamo tomorrow. we will see how the government and military react to that. you ask a lot of good questions... i think we should move you into our new fund. sure... ok. but are you asking enough about how your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab. ho, ho, hello... can you help santa with a new data plan? sure thing...

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got a backstory on turkey, the turkeys -- >> i'm so obsessed with the turkey pardon, i can't even. >> why are you obsessed with it. wasn't it truman?

>> no like, i mean that and the whole thing. you know they stay at the willard hotel. yeah. there are all these pictures of, like, a beautiful hotel room with, like, wood chips on the floor for the turkeys. >> keep telling me more about your passion. >> no, no, no, i'm just -- like, it's so stupid. [ laughter ] how else do you think he gets around so fast? take the reins this holiday and get the mercedes-benz you've always wanted during the winter event. hurry, offers end soon.

when medical examiners produce autopsy reports a lot is

technical language and lab test results and things that civilians generally don't know how to make much of. the reports are opaque to those of us who aren't expects at that sport of thing, even us lay observers are customed to seeing the diagrams used by medical exam mothers document what has happened to a person's body. there's a few different kinds of them used as templates. there's a woman without hair, there's a woman with hair. we have a few different templates for a man and a few different poses, including one template for a man who is not just standing in the usual autopsy pose in this one, which i have found very unsettling, look at the pitch picture of the right, bottom of the body, the map showing us the soles of his feet, looks like he is floating or flying, the effect is a little ethereal, unsettling, but that is the autopsy template that they used in the case of laquan in chicago. medical examiner on that autopsy report it is interesting, you can see hand wrote a little key at the top of the autopsy report

explaining what each of the marks means much the bullets that were fired into the entry wounds marked with an o, exit wounds marked with an x and recovery marked with a triangle, for some of the bills there wasn't an exit wound, the bullet was still in the body and they had to remove it on the autopsy table, as best we can tell from the picture, looks like seven of the bullets fired into this 17-year-old, seven were still in his body and had to be taken out of him on the autopsy table. but if you just count the circles in terms of the entry wounds, in terms of the builts that entered him, whether or not they exited, there are 16 entry wounds. yesterday afternoon, prosecutors in chicago announced first-degree murder charges against the officer, the single officer who fired all 16 of those bullets, those charges announced yesterday, more than a year after the shooting itself and just hours before the court forced the city of chicago to release a dash cam videotape showing the circumstances of 17-year-old laquan's death. so, you may have seen this

already, for my part, i am only going to play this video once tonight, that is it, parts i will not show at all this shows, after all in realtime, a young man's death, i'm only going to show it once, if you want to see it stop doing the dishes or whatever else you are doing, come watch it now, you don't want to see it this is the time you will want to look away. the footage begins with a police car moving around chicago, speeding around traffic to get to a call. ultimately you see laquan, 17 years old, walking in the street, police say the glipting object you can see ultimately in his right hand was a small folding knife, officers are on his left. he is walking and then as he falls, it becomes clear that laquan has been shot. he is being shot, round after round after round. prosecutors say laquan never spoke to those intersection the officer who shot him emptied his clip into that young man, 16 bullets. so, that was the tape from the chicago police cruiser that was released last night, just hours after first-degree murder

charges were announced against the officer who fired the shots. and the resulting demonstrations in chicago last night were big, as you might expect, and they were very emotional. they were mostly peaceful. and there are a lot of people out there again tonight, but now, as chicago continues to react and as the story continues to reverberate in that big stained around the country, there is now this question hanging like a sword of damocles, like a wrecking ball, over chicago and specifically, over the police department and the administration of chicago mayor rahm emanuel and the prosecutor's office. and that is the big obvious question there of why and how they thought they were going to get away with this, right, because there is that dash cam video, which the city has known about since the incident happened, the autopsy report which the city has had since the autopsy happened. the autopsy was performed the morning after laquan was killed and it shows 16 bullets being fired into that kid's body, but for months, despite that

evidence, when no one inside the chicago police department and nobody inside the chicago city government knew that that video or that autopsy report, whatever, be made public, even though they knew they had them, for months, the only explanation offered for why laquan died on that street was that an officer had fired at him in self-defense and laquan had been shot in the chest. that was the public story about this case. the only thing that interrupted that public trajectory to is that some very aggressive journalism happened in chicago. the first the public learned that young man had been shot 16 times was this autopsy report, when it was obtained and made public in february by a local reporter named jamie kalven. the first the public learned that a videotape existed of the shooting that a dash cam video in a patrol car had captured the shooting, the first the public knew it had happened was when that same reporter called for the release of that tape. he said he had been told that the tape existed, that people

somewhere inside city government and law enforcement of chicago had seen it and knew that it contradicted the public impression that had been given about this case. without reporters prying that autopsy report that showed the 16 shots and without reporters prying that video out of the hands of the people who had seen it but weren't talking about it, where would this have ended? that's the question here now and that's the question going forward for chicago and for other cities who have similar problems. i mean, thank god chicago has journalists like this working on cases like this, but without that in this case what would chicago have done? joining us now jamie kalvin, founder of the invisible institute, first to report the findings of the laquan autopsy report. thank you for your time, i appreciate you being here. >> it is good to be with you. >> you have been chase the information on this case for so long, i'm curious to hear what you' you're able to tell us about the first tip that you got about the video, that there was potentially a dash cam video of

this incident. >> several weeks after the -- after the shooting, a close colleague of mine, civil rights lawyer craig put futterman and official report and reports in the media, that it really was -- can't recall now if he used the word execution, it had been used by eyewitnesses of the event. but he used very strong language, and there was dash cam video. so i did some additional reporting, found a witness to the incident. very credible. a motorist who had been stopped by the unfolding action at 41st and polaski in chicago. and he gave a very vivid account which completely aligns with what we now know on the basis of the video. so at this point, this would be

early december of 2014, issued a statement calling on the city to release the video. the basic premise of the statement, which really resonates today belongs to the public. this is public information that the city was withholding from citizens. a couple of months later, i was able to get the autopsy report and there you have just -- you know, an autopsy is an extraordinary document, really. and you described it vividly in your setup. it's a kind of narrative of what happened to the body of the deceased. this narrative of the 16 gunshot wound front and back was completely at odds with the official story that had been put out by the police department.

do you believe that this was being covered up? or do you believe that it took this long if other journalists had been able to force the publication of the video. >> well, the person who gave us the information, who led us to look hard at this case was within the city and had his doubts about how vigorously this case was going to be investigated. i think the record speaks for itself. there's lots of local questions but imagine if this were a gang shooting and you had evidence of this nature that came readily at hand. you had a video and multiple witness, both police and civilian witnesses. you had the autopsy. how long would it have taken for an in .indictment to come down in a case like that?

you use the word cover-up. there's also a dramatic ill vags of how the culture of the police department works in that at every level and at every turn in this pro-prosesz from cops on the scene to higher levels of government, to the highest levels of government, the impulse, the initial impulse, the default impulse had been to circle wagons and double down on the false narrative. there there's a cultural dynamic at work here that i think is catastrophic in its impact. swloovg as long as you have an

ind independent -- >> you can deflect the results with that. this ended up being just world changing with this story. congratulations on a dark achievement. it's a very dark story, but you pushed it into the light. congratulations on this as a journalist. we'll be right back.

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well that's why i dug this out for you. it's your grandpappy's hammer and he would have wanted you to have it. it meant a lot to him... yes, ge makes powerful machines. but i'll be writing the code that will allow those machines to share information with each other. i'll be changing the way the world works. (interrupting) you can't pick it up, can you? go ahead. he can't lift the hammer. it's okay though! you're going to change the world. best now thing in the world today. this is the at least annoying things you will hear today about the freaking presidential turkey pardon. we do have a new thing that nobodies about what we found in the archives that's amazing. depending on who you ask, different sources credit different presidents for starting the traditional turkey tradition. bill clinton credited harry truman for starting it.

they did give him a live turkey. that did start the tradition of presidents and the families getting live turkeys delivered to them. that did start with harry truman and 47. but truman never pardoned any turkeys for christmas or thanksgiving or anything. we know this because the truman library looked back and said so. jfk is actually the first president to spare a turkey from the white house dinner table during his turkey ceremony. he did send a live bird back to the farm to keep living. but he didn't say anything like he was giving it a presidential pardon. after that, there were some other presidents including nixon who sometimes spared the live bird from having to go to the dinner table, but again, nobody called it a pardon until 1987. ronald reagan, president, ending the end of his two terms, he's embroiled in the iran contra scandal. so this was president reagan's

seventh turkey celebration at the white house and in the middle of it is sam donaldson. he just corners reagan while he's standing there with the turkey about whether or not ehe's going to pardon stwo key figures in the iran contra scandal. whether he's going to pardon oliver north and john poindexter. we found the tape and the actual origin of presidential turkey pardoning. >> what's going to happen to that turkey? >> it's going to a pet farm. >> i'm going to say happy nang rig -- thanksgiving right in front of him and it doesn't matter. >> are you going to pardon poindexter? >> sam, that's a question no one can answer at this point. >> you can, sir. >> no, i can't.

>> what has to happen. >> if you had given me a different answer on charlie and his future, i would have pardoned him. >> mr. president, do you plan to pardon them on thanksgiving day? >> him? >> it is reagan avoiding talking about the iran contra mess makes a joke about a pardon for a turkey that's going to live anyway. i know, i'm sorry, you're sick of hearing about it. but tell me that wasn't the best new thing in the world. tell me that wasn't it. have a wonderful thanksgiving. that does it for us tonight. we eel see you again very soon. now time for the "last word" with lawrence o'donnell. >> we're not sick of hearing about it. if you need another five minutes, that was fantastic. >> the iran contra