phone. >> yeah, they've never seen cameras, most of them. and the places i go, we get pretty far off the grid. so it's not places where people have cell phones. there are very few cell phones there now anyway. so everything about our arrival there is pretty exciting for them. >> lawrence, thanks so much for stopping by earlier in the afternoon. appreciate it so much. good luck with everything on giving tuesday. that does it for this hour. i'm kate snow. "mtp daily" starts right now. ♪ if it's tuesday, attention republican establishment. 61 days until iowa. are you running out of time to stop the insurgency that is dominating your party's presidential primary? this is a special super tuesday "mtp daily" and it starts right now. ♪ you know the adage it may be

a marathon, not a sprint, but exactly two months from today are the iowa caucuses and there are real warning signs that the republican establishment candidates need to pick up the pace, if they hope to overtake the outsiders. these republican insurgents, trump, carson, and cruz, right now, they're beating the gop candidates of bush, christie, rubio. on every level. this hour, rubio will be in alabama, after hitting skashl this morning. jeb bush is having three events in iowa. chris christie is marking his 50th day in new hampshire and all of them were questioned about the credentials of their more popular outsider opponents. >> talking about anybody who doesn't have the rec zit experience to make the tough decisions that need to be made as president. while it's new and great and shiny and untarnished and everybody loves new. it's exciting. new is great. until you need experience.

until the really tough moment comes. >> the question ought to be who has the leadership skills to solve the problems that are holding us back, who could be a commander in chief, the most serious responsibility of the next president of the united states, and who can beat hillary clinton. to simplify this, i think those are the three things that truly matter. >> it's not bringing them to their feet, as you can see. as the early contest gets closer, it's a line of attack we'll see more of from the establishment candidates and it's one that donald trump himself anticipated last night in georgia. >> christie hasn't hit me yet. he will. he has to. he has no choice. he's at 2 or 3. he's going to hit me at some point. rubio's got to hit me. there's only one way you get to the top and it's all through trump, let's face it. >> and with two months until the first vote, trump's not necessarily wrong. in a few hours, he'll hold a rally in new hampshire where he continues to lead in those polls

too, much as he does in iowa and in the national race itself. and he's done it with very little spending. this is the eye-opener this afternoon. our latest figures find that trump is at the very bottom of the pact in terms of tv ad spending. just $217,000 so far. compare that to jeb bush right up there at the top, who has spent nearly $29 million, most of it by his super pac, right to rise. when you add it up, the teams for the four establishment presidential candidates have spend $53.9 million in the race so far. by contrast, trump, carson, and cruz, have spent, combined, $2.9 million. that's an 18-1 advantage that the establishment candidates have over their outsider rivals. all that money isn't buying the gop establishment love. bush has been running ads in new

hampshire since early september. what's it gotten him? a two-point drop. sliding from a tie in third place to fifth place. while rubio has ascended a bit, he's ten points or more behind trump. two months to go to iowa. should the establishment be reaching for the panic button? i'm joined by mike needham, nobody would call him a member of the establishment. and former senior adviser to scott walker's campaign, ben ginsburg. let me start with you. should the advertisement be pushing the panic button? >> well, i don't think pushing the panic button ever solves anything for anyone. i think talking about experience, talking about issues, being able to contrast issue system what any candidate not named donald trump needs to be doing right now. >> mike, as you look at this and i know what you're looking for in a presidential nominee.

you've laid it out pretty clearly. are you happy that the fact that, hey, right now, the candidates that are trading positions at the top, none of them belong to the so-called establishment. it's all different forms of outsiders, whether trump, whether carson, now cruz. >> well, chuck, i'm glad that this central theme of this campaign has been one that i think is the most important, which is that washington is corrupt. washington's not broken. it works very well. it just works for incumbent politicians, their consultants and lobbyists who profit off the status quo. so the theme of the campaign, we need to come to washington, drain the swamp, we're not part of the corrupt washington establishment that's made the republican party soulless for so many years and i think you are going to see a winner. somebody who goes out with an optimistic solution to make life for everybody, and it's going to start with disrupting a broken washington, d.c. that only works for the well connected. >> ben, in watching what

happened with scott walker, he was supposed to be one of the outsiders, but he was also trying to unite both factions. rubio wants to do the same thing. is it impossible to try to be a uniter at this point in the primary, that this isn't the time to say, guess what, i'll shake things up, but don't worry, establishment, i'll also be mild-mannered about it? is this just not the way to do it? >> i think a lesson for any candidate is not to worry about precisely the boxes you're trying to put them in, to know what they believe in, and to speak from the heart to people about how they are going to solve the problems that confront us. it isn't so much a matter of trying to poll test answers to either establishment people or conservatives, or tea party people. it is a matter of knowing what you believe and talking about it. and providing the solutions that will actually work to solve the problems. >> i want to get both of your

reactions. there's a "new york times" article today about the establishment not having -- or different big-money people in the republican party having a debate about how do you go after trump. if you go after him too hard, he'll come after you and it will hurt. then there's a fear that it looks like it's led by sitting senators who are worried that trump would lead to defeat. mike, what would your advice be to senators that are nervous that the top of the presidential ticket could be weak in a general election? >> if you're nervous about donald trump, you need to prove that like donald trump, you're willing to take on the party elders, you're not concerned about karl rove saying nasty things and that you have a reform agenda. if i told you five years ago that marco rubio, who was the insurgent tea party candidate against charlie crist was going to be labelled as the establishment candidate, you would have said that's crazy. it's a conservative reform effort that's taking over the

republican party. rubio deserves huge credit. over the last couple days, we've heard the senate is going to go substantially further than the house of representatives did in repealing obamacare, putting that on a reconciliation bill. it happened because rubio, ted cruz, and mike lee stood their ground, demanded that the republican leadership in washington keep their promise to voters. marco rubio and ted cruz, being the two leading candidates with elected experience. that's what a winning reform movement looks like and we're taking over the party. that's a great thing. >> so, mike, do you think it's unfair for ted cruz to be calling marco rubio part of the establishment? >> i think rubio is somebody who's come from the tea party wing. he's stood there and fought for things. ted cruz has stood there and fought. two things, one is a desire for a reform agenda and marco rubio has done a great job of laying out lots of those types of ideas. i think there's a desire to take on washington, d.c. and punch the washington establishment in the face. they've certainly earned and it deserve it.

ted's been leading on that. the winning candidates could be the one who best unites those two impulses that are going on amongst republican voters right now. >> and ben, what about the trump angle to this? i'm sure you read "the times" story, where there's a lot of hand wringing in there. most of the quotes are not on the record, because everybody's afraid to be caught going after trump. but what's the advice to the party if they ask you? >> again, the party -- the advice would have to be, know who you are, know what you stand for, be able to articulate it. this would not be the first cycle in history where some senators of both parties run away from their presidential nominations. if the person who's leading the ticket has views that are different from the candidates for senate and house, then it's up to the candidates for the senate and house to articulate that vision. many of them have done that very well over time and i think they'll continue to do it this time. >> ben, i ask you this because you don't have a dog in this fight anymore.

how likely do you think there's going to be some sort of brokered convention? which means, the nominee doesn't have enough delegates by the end of this process? >> we should never use the word brokers, because there are no brokers left in the party. >> that's true. >> but a deadline convention, this is a wider and broader field than we've ever had before. you really have three lanes, not two lanes. you have the trump lane, the conservative lane and the establishment lane. >> trump got his own lane? >> sure. look at the way you've been talking. >> there's trump lane, a conservative lane and an establishment lane. fair enough. >> absolutely. >> thank you both, guys. >> thanks for having us, chuck. coming up, the pentagon lays out new plans to fight isis. we're going to talk to former u.s. ambassador to iraq about what it means to have combat troops back in that country. and later, the state of race in the 2016 race, how the fight for racial equality is impacting the presidential campaign, including today. stay tuned.

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chicago mayor rahm emanuel is trying to regain public trust after the killing of 17-year-old laquan mcdonald by officer jason van dyke. today the chicago mayor said the city's police superintendent has to go. >> he has become an issue, rather than dealing with the issue. and a distraction. i have a lot of loyalty to what he's done and him, but i have a bigger loyalty to the city of chicago and its future. and no one person trumps my commitment to the city of chicago and its future. >> the move overshadowed the new police accountability task force, which will train and oversee chicago's law enforcement. emmanuel says it's time for new leadership. some in chicago say it should begin with the mayor's seat.

stephanie gosk questions him about that today. >> mr. mccarthy had become a distraction. there are a lot of questions in this room about you and your office. have you become a distraction as well? >> you'll make that judgment. i try to do my job every day and do it professionally. >> the department of justice is investigating how the city handled the 2014 shooting. took several months for the dash cam video to be released. mccarthy served at the pleasure of the mayor. emmanuel asked for his resignation today and got it. the absence will prompt a new nationwide search for a new police superintendent. emmanuel will then choose from the finalists. coming up, we'll have new developments in the fight against isis. ambassador chris hill joins me to discuss the idea of combat troops back in iraq. opportunity is everything you make of it.

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in the fight against isis. the united states is sending more special operations forces into iraq, this time in iraq to fight isis. >> we're deploying a specialized expeditionary targeting force to assist iraqi and kurdish peshmerga forces and put even more pressure on isil. these special operators will over time be able to conduct raids, free hostages, gather intelligence, and capture isil leaders. >> as you can see, defense secretary ash carter saved that news for the house armed services committee today and add this. quote, we are at war. but just a few hours before secretary carter and the chairman of the joint chiefs testified to capitol hill about stepping up the fight. president obama told reporters in paris there's no way to speed up air strikes against isis without gathering better intel. >> the pace of air strikes is not constrained by the amount of planes or missiles that we have.

the pace has been dictated by how many effective targets do we have. and our intelligence continues to improve. and the better we get at that, the better we're going to be at going after them. >> and of course to gather that intel, you need more special forces. joining me now, jim miklaszewski. mick, what did he hear today? cut through the military speak. what really happened today? >> there's a realization here as even the president acknowledged that air strikes have not been as effective as the u.s. could possibly want, particularly in going after isis leadership. that's because isis leaders have embedded themselves in the middle of civilian populations throughout syria and in iraq. and it's been said time and again that air strikes cannot be totally effective without some boots on the ground. something that president obama has strenuously stressed, that there were going to be no more

boots on the ground. but today, when you listen to ash carter up on capitol hill, there are not only going to be boots on the ground. they are going to engage in combat operations, both in iraq and syria. now, those special operations forces will be primarily based in iraq, but they will conduct those kind of raids against isis forces in both syria and iraq. chuck? >> what kind of numbers are we talking about here? >> we're talking about perhaps -- somewhere between 50, 100 perhaps, special operations forces. ultimately as many as 200 forces if you throw in support troops, helicopters and the like. but this is a realization. this is an admission by the administration that the current policy is just not effective as they hoped it would be. >> jim miklaszewski at the pentagon for us, mick, thanks so much. joining me now to answer that question, former ambassador to iraq and author of the book

"outpost." is this an admission that the current strategy isn't working? >> i think it's fair to say that it is. certainly president obama hinted at it when he said our problem is not lack of planes. our problem is lack of targets. and therefore we need more intelligence. and by intelligence, i think you can read having people on the ground. he's stopped short of sending troop formations to iraq and syria. so i don't call this quite the slippery slope that some might call it, but certainly it's an uptick in the fact that that ash carter said, look, we're at war, and led with the fact that they would be conducting some raids, i think, as an effort to prepare us all for the fact that there could well be some casualties. >> let me tap into your diplomatic experience here. it seems as if the united states has a focus and it's isis. the kurds have a focus and it's sois. i think the iraqis have a focus, and it's isis. turkey doesn't have this. russia doesn't have this. we're not quite sure what saudi

arabia has. so what is it going to take? former defense secretary bob gates on "meet the press" told me he thinks essentially that it's time for the u.s., if they want more buy-in from the turks in saudi arabia, then you're going to have to acquiesce to their number one demand, and that is to speed up the ousting of assad. >> i think speeding up the ousting of assad is a bit of a nonsec witter with respect to isis. people have said the reason there's this radical sunniism, somehow the shia doesn't do enough outreach in iraq. frankly, i think isis is there not because the shia failed to give them the deputy sports ministry position. i think it's a very fundamental split within the middle east. first it's a fundamental split amongst sunni and then between sunni and shia. so i'm not sure that handing up assad is really going to solve this problem. i think the saudis do need to get much more involved in the fight. and in recent weeks, they've

cleared transferred their attention to yemen, which is hardly the issue right now. the issue is defeating isis, and i think they seem less interested in that. >> well, what about the turks? seems that erdogan cares more about the kurds arising, strengthening potential. i think he thinks kurdistan is coming. and he's fearful, obviously of assad too. >> he has reason to be concerned about the kurds. traditionally, the kurds have never been unified, but clearly isis is helping in that process and we're seeing kurds in syria join forces with kurds in iraq, and this is something the turks had worried about. but at the same time, i think what we really need from president erdogan is to calm this down with russia. because that difference, in fact, which is getting more tense by the day, that problem is going to retard the issues in vienna and it's through those

negotiations in vienna that we could get some progress on the assad front. so, again, there's two different wars going on. assad against the various rebel groups, and there's isis. obviously they're connected, but there needs to be a lot more coordination and frankly it's going to have to start with some of the regional players, such as the saudis and the turks. >> would your advice to the president be, focus on isis right now, keep the diplomatic track going on assad, but, you know, don't feel as if you have to overemphasize it right now. if you're over emphasizing anything right now, make it isis? >> there's no question the sunni arabs would like to see assad go, but i think we need to do that through a diplomatic process in vienna, meanwhile, we need to turn up the heat on isis, and i think that's what this announcement by ash carter is about. >> all right, ambassador chris hill, thanks for coming on, sir. >> pleasure. up next, the who, what,

when, where, and why in some of today's headlines, including what chris christie's local paper has to say about his endorsement from a big paper. >> and donald trump still defends his 9/11 remarks, as more voices come out to say there's no truth to it at all. stay tuned. who wants to try? before earning enough cash back from bank of america to stir up the holidays, before earning 1% cash back everywhere, every time and 2% back at the grocery store, even before they got 3% back on gas,

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"union leader" endorsement by saying, quote, they know almost nothing about his record. turning to the where, it's illinois, senator mark kirk is attacking his potential democratic foe, tammy duck worth over refugees. duck worth, not a shoe-in but he's going after her anyway. he hits her for voting for a bill that would require top u.s. officials to sign off on every iraqy and syrian refugees admitted to the united states. duck worth's campaign reacted by comparing kirk to donald trump. now to the when. this friday, a federal transportation spending part of the government is set to expire. lawmakers reached a deal today to a five-year, $281 billion bill that would hit the white house by friday. the first long-term transportation plan implemented by congress and the presidency since 2005. and now the why.

we already had black friday, cyber monday. today is giving tuesday. msnbc is joining folks around the globe and giving back to charity. as to the why, more than $45 million were raised last year helping people around the world. head to giving.msnbc.com. up next, we'll have the market wrap of cnbc and here it is. >> stocks rallied this giving tuesday. the dow surges 168 points, the s&p adds 22, and the nasdaq climbs 47. auto sales were up at ford and gm thanks to year-end deals. thanks to demand for trucks and crossovers. ford sales rose less than 1%, but shares of both companies ended hire. amazon shares rose after sales of its devices hit a record over

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>> 60 years ago today, rosa parks refused to give up her seat on a bus, launching the montgomery bus boycott. hillary clinton is in montgomery today, commemorating that now historic act of civil diseampt obedience. >> we must be honest about the larger and deeper inequalities that continue to exist across our country. we each need to do the hard work of rebuilding our bonds with one another. between and among neighbors, colleagues, even people with whom we profoundly disagree. >> now, clinton could have marked today with a press

release, instead she made the trip to alabama and spoke at the church where martin luther king once served as pastor. the alabama primary is on march 1st, an important day on the calendar for hillary clinton and everybody running for president. clinton also released a new radio ad today in south carolina, saying she lost badly to barack obama in 2008. in this new spot, she ties herself directly to barack obama. >> i served proudly in president obama's cabinet and i'm running for president now, to make sure every child has a chance to live up to his or her god-given potential and that every family could get ahead and stay ahead. >> kristin welker is with the clinton campaign, live in montgomery with the latest. kristin, clearly this is a campaign that wants to show it will work harder for the african american vote than she did eight years ago. >> it's a big shift from 2008, chuck. of course as you just pointed

out, president obama really trounced her when it came to the african american vote. what we saw here today was a reminder that this critical voting block is really coalescing around secretary clinton. she talked about a number of her agenda items that appeal to african american voters, including criminal justice reform, fighting for voting rights. she talked about the fact that the right for civil rights continues. and if you look at the polls, she's far out ahead of bernie sanders when it comes to winning over this critical voting group. take a look. nationally, non-white voters, 68% say they favor clinton, compared to 23% who favor bernie sanders. that of course is all non-white voters, so include latinos as well. but if you take a look at african american voters, in south carolina, for example, the margin gets much wider. 80% of african american voters in south carolina say they would vote to secretary clinton, compared to just 8% who say they would vote for bernie sanders. so she's far out ahead.

the strategy on the part of the clinton campaign is to really build a fire wall here in the south. if he were to lose in new hampshire to bernie sanders, for example, she wants to make sure that she has a strong block of votes here in these critical southern states. also laying the ground for a general election as womaell, ife makes it there, chuck. >> they see march 1st as the day they could put bernie sanders away. >> indeed. >> hillary clinton's outreach to the black community has evolved since the 2008 campaign. back then, neither she nor obama faced activists from the black lives matter movement. michael eric dyson, msnbc political analyst and author of the upcoming book, the black presidency, obama, and the policy of race in america.

that's a long title for the book. >> it is. >> so you're making the case, hillary clinton is going to be better for black america than president obama. >> look, president obama has been incredibly, especially over the last year. but he's has tension and pressure put on him as a result of being a black man. he had to worry himself, am i showing that i'm too, if you will, deferential to african americans. so he had to pull back in expressions and embrace, whereas hillary clinton is not burden with that internal fever that will rise to a certain pitch. >> this was all over the first pitch. april ryan consistently, she does an urban radio -- >> right. >> she would ask him about black unemployment, and he would say i'm worried about unemployment

for everybody. >> he's been different in the second half of the second term. he's now in his fourth quarter acknowledging that and we're grateful for that. so where is he now is great. he talks about race, he embraces the challenge. speaks from his bully pulpit. i think hillary clinton, not having that kind of burden or worry is able to therefore put down policy. policy which is critical. criminal justice reform, addressing black unemployment, without being accused of somehow deferring to those interests. >> it's interesting, also, you do note that she's not her husband either. her husband was deemed the first black president. >> right. >> and you write this. she possesses neither her husband's charisma with black fold, nor president obama's blackness. she must solely rely on public policy.

>> that's what she's got to come with. bill clinton still has that charisma. >> he signed that welfare reform bill that a lot of african americans didn't like. >> welfare reform, and the criminal justice bill, that really hurt us in a bad way. so he had the charisma, but he underperformed when it came to public policy and race. barack obama has put forth public policy especially lately that at least acknowledges this. but his philosophy is universal, as you've indicated, not specific. hillary clinton is targeted, is specific, is unapologetic about it and will direct those resources in a way that won't lead to the exploitation of her husband and the avoidance of barack obama. >> historically put the black lives matter movement into some historical context. how does it compare to previous civil rights movements? >> closely related to snik. they believed in leaderless movements.

they didn't believe under ella baker, there were a great group of people. she said, you don't need a top-down leader. they're the most powerful replication of that. >> you think they're more successful because they're leaderless? the leaders of the movement, they believe they're not famous because they're women. do you think that's a fair point? >> i think that's an extremely fair point. but let's not throw the charisma out with the bath water. women, gay, lesbian, transgender, queer people, all those voices are at the forefront of the black lives matter movement. but they have the same infighting and disagreements amongst each other that the older people had. so when you think you're better than your mama and your daddy, you're just like us. >> all right. you're sticking around. still ahead on "mtp daily," donald trump is digging in on his 9/11 claims. and ted cruz is bringing benghazi back into the spotlight. but there's another comment from cruz that's getting a lot of

attention. late yesterday he dismissed the notion that his party would limit the access of contraceptives. >> jimminy cricket, this is a made-up, non-sense example. last i checked, we don't have a rubber shortage in america. [ laughter ] look, when i was in college, we had a machine in the bathroom, you put 50 cents in and voila! >> well, okay then. our own kasie hunt got some reaction to the rubber comment from jeb bush today. you have to see it. >> ted cruz said he didn't have any trouble getting rubbers in college when he was talking about contraception. [ laughter ] >> you're kidding. happen all by itself. it needs to be earned every day. using wellness to keep away illness. and believing a single life can be made better by millions of others. as a health services and innovation company

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>> you're looking now at a live picture of the white house where an iconic red ribbon is now hanging in honor of world aids day. today marks the 27th time that we've commemorated world aids day. made a lot of progress fighting hiv and aids since 1988. nearly 30 million new hiv infections and nearly eight million age-related deaths have been prevented since the year 2000. this according to the joint united nations program on hiv-aids. but it's still the sixth leading cause of death worldwide. so today, take a moment to

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>> donald trump is running into more trouble, trying to verify his claims of seeing thousands of american muslims celebrating on 9/11. trump tweeted this link to a 2001 mtv news clip featuring radio host and guardian angels founder. >> calls started coming in from people troubled in the fact that they had just ridden down main street and south patterson and hours before had seen what appeared to be a large group of people celebrating, cheering,

when they heard that the world trade center had struck -- >> mtv has put out the whole video after he pushed back on trump saying the clip you just saw was edited. he said he was talking about callers and what they allegedly saw, nothing that he personally witness witnessed. trump also tweeted a new yorkoped. here in new york, it was easy to get angry listening to egyptians, palestinians and arabs of nearby patterson, new jersey, celebrate as they received word of the murderous attacks in new york and washington. then there's former mayor rudy guiliani who said this about the alleged celebrations. >> we had very, very little. we had some language, we had some yelling and screaming. i can't give you a count of the number of acts of violence, but nothing really serious, and we did have some reports --

>> yes. >> -- of people celebrating that day while the towers were coming down. >> but if there had been thousands of people -- >> i would have known that for sure. >> well, michael eric dyson is back with me. we're also joined with kathleen parker and reed wilson. welcome all to you. kathleen, let me start with you. trump is digging in on this. is there a penalty for that? >> apparently not. because he's been guilty before of saying things that are not true and his supporters seem to like him more and more. if you and i sit here and say this has been proven false by these and these sources, including the media, that does nothing to harm him among his supporters. but the man is incapable of saying, i was wrong. you know, i exaggerated, but it was an honest mistake. that's how i recalled it, but i was wrong. he can't do that. >> that is what seems to be his achilles heel.

>> it's the brand of donald trump, he can never be seen as losing or on the defensive. he always has to be winning and one-upping everybody else and being treated as fairly as possible. i can't help but notice how many times he keeps talking about how unfairly he's being treated. asking for apologies in these tweets and in his speeches. i mean, this is sort of what's keeping in the race right now. if he wants to get out of the race at any given point, he needs to find a graceful way to exit. the big damage that can be done to the trump brand is not necessarily losing, it's being seen as anything but a winner, which is what has made him hundreds of millions of dollars on television, and apparel and building the trump brand itself. >> michael, it's been good politics. >> it's good theater. maybe kabuki theater. the problem is donald trump is not having values, not having tenacious hold of his convictions, it's as kathleen said, but when you're proven

empirically to be wrong, when the evidence is overwhelming, you're not weak. you're strong when you go, you know what, i was wrong. but there were so many people that day who were invested in, blah blah blah, you go on. but to conjure out of your hat some kind of evidence that doesn't exist, makes you look like a buffoon. >> i go back, kathleen, when you talk, if you saw the piece we put in on sunday on "meet the pres press", you talk to his supporters, yeah, he bends the truth, but there's a larger truth. they're hearing the larger truth. and regardless, muslims probably were celebrating. >> so it's off by a thousand or so, doesn't matter. >> and that's where that maybe we in the media are missing the point here of what is attracting people to him. >> well, what attracts them to him is the fact that he's -- they say it over and over again, that he's not a politician, and that he speaks the truth, and

he's not politically correct. i think people are confused about what political correctness really means. because being cruel and unkind to people is not being politically being cruel and unkind and having terrible manners. but donald trump is, you know, he is a classic narcissistic. the narcissistic is never wrong and everything that happens around him happens through the prism of his own experience, and they never apologize, ever. and i think that is the biggest concern and people really need to look closely at that and how it manifests in public life. >> here's how it manifests in public life. sometimes a politician needs to say, i'm wrong and admit. rahm emanuel did it today in chicago. he hired the police chief and had to admit, he was wrong, it had become a distraction. how has he been handling this? >> this is another bump in the emanuel, sort of, speed way that we've seen. he did not handle his first term terribly well. he had to fight for re-election. he was forced into a runoff,

which was a big embarrassment when, you know, no chicago mayor had lost re-election for what, 30 years? and now, he is -- i mean, he's deeply unpopular. his approval ratings have never been outstanding. he had to spend a lot of money to get re-elected, by the way. and the handling of this, it took so long -- >> i never would have thought that rahm emanuel would be a racially polarizing mayor, would you? >> because behind the scenes is, he was never liked. and especially by black elites who figure that he was kind of strong arming them. it was never anything public, it was behind the scenes. now what has been hidden has come to light. and his inability to step up to the plate and go 13 months -- however long it's taken for this case to come to light, you can't scapegoat the guy. that's critical. let's praise him for that. you've got to say, the buck stops here. you've got to harry truman the game and say, what has i done that's made me -- >> he got there, but only after

a bunch of people asked him that. >> i'll pause it here, come back and talk a little libya after the break. up next, ted cruz is bringing benghazi back in the 2016 spotlight, but he's not using it to attack hillary clinton, he's using it to attack a fellow republican. we'll explain after this. ink ofs more of a control... enthusiast. mmm, a perfect 177-degrees. and that's why this road warrior rents from national. i can bypass the counter and go straight to my car. and i don't have to talk to any humans, unless i want to. and i don't. and national lets me choose any car in the aisle. control. it's so, what's the word?... sexy. go national. go like a pro. count on being slammed this hwith orders. we're getting slammed with orders. and my customers knowing right when their packages arrive. totally slammed! introducing real-time delivery notifications. one more reason this is our season.

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tand that's what we're doings to chat xfinity.rself, my mom works at ge. we are challenging ourselves to improve every aspect of your experience. and this includes our commitment to being on time. every time. that's why if we're ever late for an appointment, we'll credit your account $20. it's our promise to you. we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. we are back for "the lid." benghazi is making its way into the 2016 presidential race against after marco rubio started hitting ted cruz for his

opposition to nsa data gathering. the texas senator took a shot at rubio on foreign policy and cruz did so by linking rubio to one of the gop's biggest targets, hillary clinton. in an interview with bloomberg news, cruz said that, quote, senator rubio emphatically supported hillary clinton in toppling moammar gadhafi in libya. today, she defended the decision to go after gadhafi. >> gadhafi had american blood on his hands. gadhafi was a threat to the broader region. our european and arab friends certainly saw him as that. and as you say, he was promising to track down his own people and kill them like cockroaches. >> and my panel is back here. we got reid, michael, and kathleen. the other part that ted cruz said actually -- this goes to a larger philosophical difference in the republican party, is he said, you know, gadhafi, yes, it was bad on human rights, bad on a lot of things, but he was helping in the war against

islamic terrorism. and so, so, since you didn't have a plan to do something with the country after the fact, it shouldn't have been done. that's the larger point cruz is making. is that something that can work in the republican primary? >> that's the larger point that we took away from iraq, i believe, that saddam hussein, even though he was an awful person, you know, he was holding these disparate parts, and now we have the situation that we have now. is it a winning -- you know, anytime you can link your opponent to hillary clinton in the primary, you're probably making a good move politically, but -- and ted cruz is -- you know, his points are not terribly off, but they are consistent with the president's positions -- you know, so if you want to link marco rubio with hillary clinton, you could also link ted cruz with president obama's. i don't know which is worse. >> what's fascinating, let's say it's cruz and hillary, which is very possible. hillary clinton is more the interventionist than ted cruz.

that's going to make a john mccain like, you know, i don't know where he's going to want to go. >> oh, yeah. at the very moment it's a propitious moment, now you have the democrats on the line, because they're not interventionist and hawkish, you're looking at not a chicken, but a big hawk. and as a result of that, that zproo deprives him of any kind of political capital. because the point kathleen is making about hussein and gadhafi has been made across the spectrum, not just a right-wing kind of argument. >> it's also why the president has been so hesitant about syria. they have learned a lesson from libya. they saw what happens when you totally topple a regime, which is why they want to get rid of assad, but keep the regime. >> by the way, it's why we've seen the republican party being as hesitant about syria as possible. they keep saying there's no strategy to go after the islamic state, to fight the islamic state, and that's true. they haven't offered one either. i think you've seen on a lot of fronts, as the arab spring develops around the world, this sort of across the spectrum, not really understanding what to do

about it, and this is going to be a challenge that the next president faces. and maybe even the president after him or her, how to handle the fallout of the arab spring. the obama administration took sort of a hands-off approach to the arab spring -- >> well, they took a hands-off, then hands-on, all over the map. >> it was the least-bad decision to make, but it was certainly a decision that was going to haunt the next several presidents down the line. >> we know about this back and forth today because there's a cruz versus rubio sub-primary going on here. >> pretty nasty. >> actually nastier than rub rubio/bush was. >> yeah, well, for the broader latino or hispanic kind of argument. >> by the way, ted cruz started his strategy when he first got to the senate. you know, he created the image of himself as this outlier and everything he's done in the senate has been toward this end. and i guess you could say the same about -- >> and donald trump has helped

him. why? because ted cruz is a conventional outsider. so if you want an outsider now, you can go with a guy that seems like the safer outsider. cruz may be perfectly positioned. >> but have you been struck by how prepared rubio has been for all of these attacks, whether it's from immigration on cruz or foreign policy, he's got an answer for everything. it tells you they prepared their candidate well. >> you got the last word, congratulations. we'll be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." erica hill picks up our coverage right now. our top stories on msnbc live this hour. ramping up the fight against isis. pentagon chief ash carter telling congress he's unleashing more special ops forces, to fight the terror group. >> we're at war. we're using the might of the finest fighting force the world has ever known. >> jim miklaszewski is live at