then investigation will come up rather quickly with who had a terrible reason to dislike someone so much and then you start to build out. it's just like a target on a bulls eye. once you find that center of that target, then you can start to build out again and those concentric circles around there more than lickly will contain the other shooter or shooters that are involved in this. so this is something that law enforcement, if it was directed at that facility and somebody there, they'll be able to identify the primary shooter, the primary leader in this. the question is how quickly can we find them? hopefully before they commit another act or before some lone police officer makes a traffic stop and doesn't know what he's running up against. >> clint van zandt, i hope you stick around. msnbc's coverage will continue next with erika hill. the local police informed us at the top of the last hour that

they would update the media every hour on the hour. so we are expecting to hear from the police chief any minute now and erika hill will bring that you right now. it is all yours. >> chuck todd, thanks very much, as we continue our coverage at this hour, out of san bernardino, california. let's reset the scene for you. this is a story we have been covering here, just in the moments after it broke around 11 scla 11:00 pacific time. if you are not familiar with the area, that is about an hour east of los angeles. weep should tell you as we update you at any moment we could be getting word that there is another news conference from investigators. last hour they told us they would continue to update us every hour, whether there was an update or not, saying they would come out and speak to the media ideally at the top of the hour.

at least 14 people are dead, 14 otherss are injured. at this time we know they are looking for between one and three suspects. important thing to point out here. the suspects have not been identified. we have been told multiple teams there is nond case what t indic motives and motives may have been. the sheriff went on to say we don't know whether this is terrorism but we can say it is, in his words, domestic terrorism. we also heard a little bit of detail. details are few at this point in terms of the shooters and understandably that's because they are not in custody at this hour that we know of. so authorities do not want to in any way compromise the investigation or the search. but we can tell you there are some interesting details noted about these alleged shooters.

let's take a quick listen to how they were described. >> preliminary information indicates they were people at that came prepared, they were dressed and equipped to be prepared and they were on long guns not handguns. they came prepared to do what they did as if they were on a mission. >> prepared to do what they did as if they were on a mission. jim cavanaugh is an msnbc law enforcement analyst and former hostage negotiator. you've been talking to chuck extensively over the last hour. you pointed out the fact that there were three people together says something to you. why is that significant? >> well, it just changes the motive of someone who would do this. in a mass shooting that we see commonly, sadly, we have a lot of people who have mental health issues, a particular gripe, bent

on revenge on a particular group but usually you can't get somebody else to help you do that. it's very rare to get somebody else to help you do that. it does happen once in a while. but when we get into political motives like terror, domestic or international, we can see multiple players. erika, you were just in paris and you saw the ate players in that. but we've seen two players in boston, we saw two in the d.c. sniper, we saw, you know, the charlie hebdo. it's not something the average person would do lightly, not

something the average criminal would do lightly. this is very, very deep seeded fieldi feelings. >> we heard when the police got there, they weren't sure if the gunmen were still in there. this is a massive building, three stories, three different wings, a lot of story about the conference center that's there. if there were three people, as we believe, in this building who have now by all accounts fled in some way, would it indicate that they knew this building and this area well? >> well, they might have cased the place. i would expect that they people

who would have come like this would have cased the place a little bit. but it goes more to organization and planning and working as a unit. in other words, they come in as a unit, say of three, they slaughter people in the conference center and then they make their planned exit to their maybe black suv. so they have a plan, they come and they execute people and execute their man. they never intended to stay there and die in a martyr operation, a suicide operation with the s.w.a.t. team. no, they came almost like a military objective, they did it and they escaped and left. now, did they hunker down someplace and go watch the news? that could be the case. >> our affiliates were asked to

move out of the area and not broadcast any peacekeeper turs -- pictures of the building. also the question was is it possible there's a suspect in the building? the answer was we can't rule it out. do you believe that's still a possibility at this hour? >> i think so. when you great large building, somebody could find a closet in the burner room and hide out. you could go to the basement and lay in ambush for s.w.a.t. but what they seem to be saying they moment, s.w.a.t. has a feeling they're probably not there but they're going to comb every inch of the place to be sure and nothing as sure until it's sure. so they'll have to do that. >> if you're a part of this

investigation now, based on your experience, we are four hours in after these first phone calls start to come in, reports have multiple shots fired, what's happening at this moment on the ground? walk us through what they could be doing and obviously i know you know this but just for the viewers at home, you won't be i divulging anything, just give us a sense of what may be happening. >> they're running a huge investigation to find how the who they are, interview all the witnesses, gather all the video, gather the shall caell casings, tactical teams are all geared up in case there's a location that these guys start shooting again or surface. so both of those things are going on simultaneously. the commanders are trying to

find out who these guys and where these guys are. they're going to be looking at the targeting but they have to keep in mind, erika, like chuck and i talked, they could get the targeting wrong or their targeting could be mostly in their mind that this is the government building and we're going to shoot everybody there. so that all has to be sorted through of why would someone do this to this facility. they're going to have to go back and look at any threats, not on against this building but government in general in the san bernardino area. where do mass killers attack regardless of motive, whether it's mental health, whatever. often they attack near where they live. if they live near there, they attack near there. that happens time and time again. now sometimes we have people who travel,s that true, and you can't rule that out. but most of them doesn't go that far. the colorado spring shooter went 55 to shoot up the planned

minori parenthood. >> jim, if you could stay with us, our msnbc national reporter tremaine lee is on the phone with us. what can you tell us? >> reporter: just about three minutes ago i saw two officers sprinting to his vehicle, he sped off, about 100 miles an hour, and then three or four other vehicles, they sped off as well. after a lull in activity, we're now seeing activity. another fire department activity just sped off. >> so activity moving away from the building. you said this is the first activity you've seen in some time. what more have you heard from people on the scene? are you getting any more information at this hour from people who may have heard or

seen anything that happened in that building? >> so up until just a few minutes ago, there were still a few people who had relatives inside of the center. i spoke to one man, luis gutierrez, whose wife is a director inside the center. he said he was actually on the phone with her and heard a bunch of chaos in the background. she said she saw a heavy set man dressed in all black, with a mask over his face firing a gun. >> there has been a separate area set up. i know law enforcement is encouraging people not to come down to that area to reunite with their family members but to go to a separate area. you spoke with the husband of a woman who was inside, who had

called him and said she saw one man? >> she said that she saw this gentleman, mr. guiterrez said his wife saw one individual, heavy set, dressed in all black with a mask on his face and a large gun. she was on the third floor. he said she looked over and saw the gunman on a lower floor, where there had been some sort of holiday event, some sort of lunch to commemorate the holiday. she said she also with another group of co-workers barricaded themselves behind the door using -- there is no what looks like to be a s.w.a.t. vehicle with a number of the s.w.a.t. team hanging off the back, they're now flying down the street as well. >> we can hear those sirens behind you. >> was that gentleman, mr. gutierrez who you spoke with, did he have any information in

terms of when she was able to leave the building, what the signal was, who said something to her that it is safe to come out? it any information on that front? >> reporter: he didn't offer much information. her cell phone at one point died and she had a co-worker call him to tell him she was safe. she was still being interviewed along with other co-workers who witnessed some part of the episode. >> you mentioned she was looking down at something on the first floor, at a gathering, about the conference center as well. i believe we have video coming to us out of our affiliate, live pictures right now. we're going to listen into their coverage. >> they are trying to talk to the suspects in the vehicle to surrender we stand one is shot,

two still inside the vehicle at this points but multiple shots fired at officers during this chase. >> you said the gunfire is still ongoing right now. any reports of any officers who have been hit? >> there was a report that there might be one officer hit. we don't know the condition of that officer at this point. again, this is going to be just north of the 10 freeway. i'm going to zoom out who show you how many officers are involved here. let me talk to my pilot real quick here. straight down. my side. we're hearing they're bringing the s.w.a.t. vehicles in here. we're going to be seeing that here momentarily. but, again, this intersection here, completely shut down. okay, jim. >> are we in the middle of a residential area here?

>> reporter: no, no, this is a commercial area actually. no residents that we can see. this is directly south of the san bernardino airport. they are sending in the s.w.a.t. team right now to try to get these people to surrender, but we believe that this is the vehicle right here. we're hearing that -- we're hearing officers asking if there are any suspects that are outstanding that have maybe left running away from the scene. at this point they're saying no. they believe that the suspects are within that vehicle right there. >> hey, gill, our reporter is telling us that he's getting reports that two suspects are down. of course, again all of this unfolding before our very eyes. gill, let me just ask you this, as we're watching it, can you tell us which law enforcement agencies are engaged right now? is this san bernardino police?

s sheriff's department? >> it looks like a combination of chp and san bernardino police department. i haven't looked at all the vehicles but more and more units are responding here to the scene. it is san bernardino pd that engaged the suspects in a very short pursuit. >> as we continue to look at your picture here, do we have the ability to bring in tony shinn, he's at the command post. may know a little more. tony, go. what do you have? >> within the past ten minutes, there has been a flurry of activity. we have seen police car after police car, also s.w.a.t. vehicles, i'm talking about the big armored ones going code, which means lights and sirens on, blazing down waterman avenue, heading south, i'm presuming getting on the freeway and heading over to the other scene gill is above.

we can hear the police scanners, normally we don't give out this information. it sound like this is exactly what they're dealing with. we're hearing there's one suspect down unside the vehicle, one down outside the vehicle and another possibly on the run. the police are talking to each other, trying to get into a situation so everybody knows what the possibilities are. rapid fire shots, my photographer alex vazquez says rapid fire shots, they're talking about rapid fire shots, which goes along with what happened here with witnesses that we talked to who say that they saw three armed men with armor, with masks, with long guns, possibly assault rifles, we did know they were long rifles of some sort and there was a flurry of shot being fired that were heard from witnesses that we talked to who thought there was a gun range back here in their river bed. but it want. it was that tragedy happening inside that building that you could probably not see from

where our vantage point is right now because it is so far away. we are being kept far away from there. the reason being, it's an enormous crime scene. once again, let's get back to the beginning just within the past ten minutes. >> tony, we're just looking, a pickup truck justice drove right through the middle of this, turned the corner and kept going. it was the most incredulous thing i think i've ever seen, turned between the suspect vehicle and the two black and whites on the corner there. >> reporter: it is absolutely amazing. anybody who would come out and commit this type of atrocity, you just don't know what they're going to do. i think what's happening now is the unthinkable. people who do these kind of mass shootings are unimaginable, horrible human beings. we don't know what their motive is. we don't know why they would target innocent people at this center. right now it sounds like they're on the run. hopefully police are going to be able to get them all cornered so that way we can end this.

>> right now our news chopper four is following one of those vehicles. i think it was one of those armed vehicles ran through one scene but we're getting reports that there are multiple scenes. and the black or the dark colored suv at one location as well. again, one to two suspects down right now. and all of this matching up, we've been hearing the reports of the rapid gunfire, all of this matching up with what the witnesses said as well, that these men came prepared, on a mission. you can see members of the s.w.a.t. team, police officers almost appearing to use the vehicle as a shield but now it's moving forward. again, bear with us as this is an extremely fluid situation. we're actually watching it from different angles in the studio here and bringing these pictures to you live right now. >> those are definitely s.w.a.t. vehicles as we see them roll

down. what we're looking for here is a black suv. we've heard it described as a ukon, i think more appropriately -- there it is right there. i think it might be an expedition. it's in the middle of the road there and there may be one, possibly two suspects in this suv. again, the s.w.a.t. rolling up in force here. you see one law enforcement off to the right-hand side of your screen. >> right now can you see the s.w.a.t. vehicles getting in position. right now the original area we were looking at was san bernardino avenue, north of the 10 freeway. we're being told this is in fact the suv right now that has been shot out. there was gun battling going on. >> you can see bullet holes through the windshield here. all the windows are gone in the back. there you see the wipers going up and down. this -- there's definitely been a shoot-out with this -- >> are we able to bring gill in newschopper 4 back with us?

maybe there's been something he's been able to see or hear as he's been closing in on this area. the original area we were talking about, san bernardino ave. north of the 10, this appears to be a little bit more residential. obviously an incredible amount of danger if there's a gun battle where there are homes, where there are people. right now it just seems to be some kind of standoff situation. you see officers gathering behind those armored s.w.a.t. vehicles. they are not closing in on that black suv at this point. we were hearing reports of rapid fire. we don't have the audio of what's happening. we're judging this based on the picture. again, is there any way we can bring back gill and newschopper 4? >> there's no gill right now. i just got an e-mail from rob

are t -- robert, he's where the families are gathering. they're being told to shelter in place. >> the number of fatalities has remained at 14. we have a telephone number we would like to provide for people that want to be united with their family that was possibly at the regional -- inland regional center today. that telephone number is 800-637 800-637- 800-637-66 -- they'll advise you where you need to go, talk to somebody, get reunited with your families. >> you have an ongoing tactical situation with a suspect down. >> there is an active scene. i believe there may be a suspect down. it's my understanding that the

officer is okay and i don't have many updates on that other than the officer is okay. i cannot confirm at this point. there is a dark suv involved. there is one suspect down i believe. we will update. >> reporter: one scene? >> correct, within scene. >> reporter: and one suspect? >> i only know of one. that doesn't mean there isn't more. >> reporter: how far from here? >> probably a couple miles from here. >> reporter: please repeat once again, there is an active scene possibly related to this van ear -- event earlier. what is going on? >> i know there is an active scene, there were shots fired and a suspect is down.

we will update you as soon as we get any additional, hopefully within the hour. >> reporter: were any officers hit in exchange between the suspect and the officers? >> i cannot confirm that. i know all officers are okay. whether or not they were struck i don't know. >> reporter: what led to you this suv? >> i couldn't tell you this at this point. this is such an active, fluid investigation. there are so many aspect to it. and we just don't have all that information at this time. >> reporter: is there a suspect on the reason right now? >> that i don't know. >> reporter: [ inaudible ]. >> that i don't know. it's my assumption that the victims and witnesses were in those buses but i don't know if the building is cleared yet. >> reporter: what about the victims at the hospital?

how many people are hospitalized as far as you know and can you tell us what their conditions are? are there any gravely critical? >> i've heard that they range from minor injuries, that occurred while falling down trying to escape and they go up as high as gunshot wounds. so i don't know their status. >> reporter: why did the number go up three this hour? were these people found in the building hiding? >> i don't know. it was just an update that the fire department provided us. okay, we'll be back at 4:00. we will be back at 4:00 hopefully with some more. all media coverage will be here at this location. >> thank you.

you can tell the s.w.a.t. team not taking any chances, bringing their vehicles right up to that suv. and the fact that it is a residential area i'm sure adding urgency to this. >> and robert is at the command center where people are being asked to go back inside and shelter in place. >> just the approach of the s.w.a.t. team leads us to believe someone is still in the vehicle. you can see them using the vehicle as a shield, though now they're backing up and seem to be opening up a bit.

the last transmission was "rapid fire, rapid fire." and we already know the damage these men are capable of. >> as they continue to work the situation here, we're going to bring in town from tony shinn. he's at the command post. tony. >> i'm here with sergeant vicky cerv cervantes. we want to ask you personally about what is happening nearby. we've been listening to the radio chatter, too. >> i don't know any more than you've heard on the radio yourself. i just know that there were shots fired and there is reportedly a suspect down in the roadway or somewhere near the roadway and possibly a dark colored suv involved. other than that, i have no details. >> what can you tell us about a possible officer that might have

been injured in this? >> there was a report of that but i also heard radio traffic that the officer was okay. so if he was struck, it's not life threatening. but i don't have details on that. >> can you talk about the presence of law enforcement that we just saw screaming by here, and that response obviously you guys found this vehicle and knew you had to react right away. >> any time there's a report of shots fired on the radio, everybody goes to make sure everybody's safe, thecy sense are safe, all the neighborhoods are safe. >> speaking of neighborhoods being safe, this isn't a done deal yet. what do you want to reiterate to people out there who are at home to live near maybe that shooting scene. what do you want to tell them at this point? >> just stay inside, stay out of the way, be vigilant, know who's around you, keep your doors locked and secured and let us do our jobs. >> i can tell you, this living in the empire, we are very proud of your police force and

everything you've done. we'll keep getting updates. as you heard, it sound like the officer that may have been injured in this sounds like it's going to be okay. it's not confirmed, vicky -- sergeant cervantes is getting a lot of information like we are through our scanners, we have very sophisticated scanners where you can basically hear what's going on as it's happening. >> tony shinn, as we continue to look at this live picture right now, what you're looking at is a s.w.a.t. team. there are s.w.a.t. teams from several agencies on scene here. this we believe is the suv that was involved in the shooting earlier today. canines have arrived on scene. we also understand gotti swartz is on the scene with us. >> i'm just a street over. we headed here, all of the

police streaming by us. we ended up right next to where officers are right now clearing some yards. neighbors here all came out of their house when they started to hear those shots, when they kept hearing those shots, they all went back inside. they're saying hundreds, possibly a thousand shots fired. the problem is there's still like an apparent sense of urgency going on. we see s.w.a.t. officers going from house to house, yard to yard clearing those homes. it is believed there may still be one suspect outstanding. we're not sure if that person is in custody or if they have eyes on them. a few minutes ago when we saw them clearing these areas, it did not look like everybody was in custody. it looked like they were still searching for somebody. right now we're monitoring the area. there are s.w.a.t. bearcats going back and forth up the street and down the street. hey, where are we right now? >> south side of san bernardino

avenue. >> you've been listening to coverage from our affiliate knbc. we have been covering for the past four and a half hours or so here live coverage of the situation unfolding. what you're looking at are live pictures of what appear to be a standoff. there was a shooting earlier in the day at the inland regional center. we were told by officers there were three shooters who came in with a purpose and we're also told they were looking for a dark suv. you can see a dark suv on your screen. we were told by the police, they cannot confirm that it is the suspects. that's what we just heard in a press conference, that those suspects are in that vehicle, but they weren't saying that they weren't either. we know there were reports of multiple shots fired involving this vehicle. we are told it's possible that one suspect may be down. there has been a lot of talk of rapid fire shots and witnesses saying they heard a flurry of

shots, saw three men with long guns and masks. so what we're trying to do is get you some further detail right now on the situation that is happening here. we've been told by our reporters on the ground, our folks from msnbc and knbc that multiple vehicles are responding. the chp is there, the san been police department. i do want to bring in now to help put us in context, jim cavanaugh, who has been watching all of this with us as it unfolds throughout the afternoon. as you're watching this with us, jim, what are you seeing in term of -- we see one of these vehicles backing up now. what does this tell you? >> well, what they've done is they've pinched it. that's a s.w.a.t. marv union to pinch the vehicle when you have a suspect who barricades in a vehicle. the front truck maneuvered a little bit over probably to get a better view. and they may have been able to see in there through that top hatch, i don't know if you can

see there's a s.w.a.t. officer through the top hatch, that's a hatch that you can deliver gas or shoot. they're around the side of the vehicle. there's another vehicle directly off from the driver's door straight out and so they've got somebody in there. they're talking to him. you know, they may be just yelling at him. they may be talking on the cell phone. usually you just yell and say what's your phone number? we'll call you on the phone? and they're probably negotiating with him. >> we heard they had been trying to convince these folks to surrender. you mentioned the door open there. we can see the wnd shield appears to have been shot at. those would appear to have been goonshot. the windshield wipers seem to be randomly moving on that vehicle. and all of this happened very quickly, within the last 10 or 15 minutes we're told there was this flurry of activity. 14 people killed at the inland

community center. the number injured has risen to 17 and all of a sudden we heard from reporters on the ground officers flew off quickly, he saw s.w.a.t. vehicles coming in. we're hearing as well from or reporters saying he saw officers in the neighborhood and s.w.a.t. teams going house to house and clearing yards. >> well, right. because we had multiple shooters. one could be down, one could have escaped on foot, one could be still barricaded in this suv that we're looking at. we don't know for sure but it appears maybe they're negotiating with someone in there. within of those tactical officers will be aing inor that's behind the vehicles there. or he could be across in that third bearcat that's down the line and they have an armored hull so they have an officer on

top. the s.w.a.t. officers stay behind the armor. if he decided or they decided to jump out with their rifles, they would lose that gun battle with s.w.a.t. because s.w.a.t. is going to cover all angles here, you're not going to be able to get out of that vehicle. if you try to shoot, they're going to be able to shoot at you. so that are trying to reach a negotiated settlement here to see if they'll surrender without a shoot-out. >> we're getting information in as well from a police spokeswoman that an officer was wounded but is expected to be okay. as we are watching this unfold, you mentioned they would be calling out asking for a cell phone number. is it easier to talk to someone on the phone as opposed to yelling back and forth? >> yes, the phone is much better. we all talk on the phone. when you're yelling across an armored truck and yelling out of an suv, that's a little hard to

communicate. now, if that's all you got, that's all you'll use. but what you try to do is get somebody on the phone so you can say why are you here? tell us what you want, tell us what's going on and you'll elicit some conversation from them who they are, and they'll try to convince them not to die and not to shoot it out. but that all takes time. the emotional level has to drop before you're going to get anybody that can make any kind of a reason to live. that all takes a little bit of time. it doesn't happen instantly. if they decide to do some maneuvers, the shooters decide to do something, s.w.a.t. has positioned themselves here as you can see to cover any angle they might try and get out and run to the fence side, to the front side. they're not going to be able to

drive that vehicle. this is -- these armored bearcats, which is the police vehicles. those are not a military vehicle. they were never made for the military. they look, you know, imposing but they're basically like an armored car, like a brinks truck, but they're up armored and set up to carry fact call officers in the back -- tactical officers in the back. they're really the best vehicles for s.w.a.t. operations. we have them in atf. san bernardino county has them. they're very, very good vehicles. this is what they're needed for. >> as a former hostage negotiator, when you're looking at this, is there a type of person or suspect who is more likely to negotiate? and in asking that question, i'm thinking more of the demands. there's so much question of course of what the motive to be

here, the fact that three people came in in the words of law enforcement officers with a purpose. if they have some sort of purpose or an obvious grievance, are they then more likely to negotiate because in their mind they could be getting their message out or does that not come into play? >> it all comes into play because the human mind. everyone is human, everyone has reasons for what they do and has reasons to live. sometimes they want to give reasons to die. if you is a human, you can talk, you can give it time to work. you can first see if they're injured, are you hurt, can we send you some bandages, can you come out and get medical care? why are you doing this? what's your message? why did you shoot everybody at the center? what was that about? they will tell you what it's about.

they will tell you ad nauseam why they did it. to them it might be some right reason and you will have to work with them on that. if they're talking and nobody's dying, you keep talking. that doesn't mean they won't still do a suicide by cop charge but they could also have explosives. >> which we hope they don't. stay with me for a minute. i want to bring in justice correspondent pete williams who has some new information for us. pete? >> new and subject to revision. the suv you're looking at they believe is the one that was the escape vehicle from the shooting scene, that when the police confronted the three people, one of them rolled out and has subsequently been arrested. the other two remained in the vehicle and open fire on the police. within

one of the two in the vehicle was wounded and is now in custody and the third person was shot and killed. so we should know a lot more soon about who these people were and perhaps what they had in mind. but it does seem to be at least the initial feeling is it does seem to be over. >> so as you said, we are looking at these pictures of what appear to be a continuing standoff. from your multiple law enforcement sources, one of the suspects shot and killed, one in custody, you dropped out for a moment in my ear there, rolled out? >> yes. what we're told is as this began to unfold, there were three men in the vehicle. one of them rolled out on to the street and was subsequently arrested, probably at some distance from the vehicle. the other two remained in the vehicle and opened fire on police. within of those was round wounded and is now in custody and the third was shot and killed. that's our best information so far from the scene. >> so there's been a lot of talk and in fact it was probably the

second thing that the folks from the fbi brought up in the very first press conference, just about an hour and a half ago saying there was no indication this was terrorism or not terrorism. are you hearing anything from your sources that this could in any way be connected to terrorism? >> remember the sources i'm talking to don't have any magic information at this point. they're very reliant on what the local authorities are telling them. this remains primarily a local operation. they can't say for sure who these people were. what they do all say is it doesn't seem to be an act of terrorism. it didn't have any of the hallmarks of one, the choice of the target, the fact they didn't appear to say anything. all those things put together didn't bear any of the familiar hall marks of an international or jihadist-type terrorism.

it's certainly domestic terrorism. no question about that. >> pete williams, thanks for that update. i want to bring back jim cavanaugh, former hostage negotiator. as we just heard that update from pete williams, we know from what he's hearing from several law enforcement officials, as we all know in these situations, information can change. as we're moving forward, those sources say one of the suspects shot and killed, one in custody. taking that information into account and looking at this scene that has multiplied in terms of officers and vehicles there, what does your experience tell you? >> that there's probably a deceased suspect in the suv.

they can see him and they think he's deceased. they're hooking up this armored shield. they're going to be worried about a suicide vest, a bomb or explosive device or could the guy even be playing dead but that's probably not likely. but they have to be sure. so you can see on the right side, you know, the ballistic shield, they'll probably move that up there. they're going to try to get closer in there and see what's exactly inside the vehicle. what are the dangers. it may be just one deceased suspect, one in custody, one wounded and captured and one deceased. but the deceased actor may still be in the truck. >> that is what we are watching for. as you mentioned, this is the shield being set um on the far right side of the screen. >> and of course it's used for -- you have bomb squad officers there as well.

you have the bomb squad plus the s.w.a.t. team. if there's no active shooting at s.w.a.t., they have to deal with the explosive threat. >> as we watch this play out, we're watching that be set up, you mentioned the bomb squad is there now. there were concerns about explosives in the buildings that was brought up at that very first press conference. and there was no specific information as we were told that there was anything in the building they needed to be concerned about but there were some things that made them think twice so they had to send in to make sure but again no reports of anything being exploded, which one would imagine is in fact a good report out of that building, out of the inland regional center. >> that's right. but these actors today, just like the guy at planned parenthood, he had some kind of propane tanks and wires. it's routine when people are

involved in mass murder, mass shootings, mass violence, that you have to deal with not on guns but you have to deal with explosives. the thing about firearms, you have to have the ability to pull the trigger. with bombs you don't. bombs could even detonate when you're dead. so they can be left in there as a booby-trap. the truck could be rigged or the body could be rigged or suicide belt could be on. all that has to be checked out. so they're moving this blis being shield up. they can see through the windows. it protects them from bullets or fragmentation of a device. they're going to move that up and look as close as they can inside that to get a real close-up look in there. >> it appears a lot of those windows in the become there are blown out. you may closer to your monitor

than i am to mine. >> right. and if they aren't out, s.w.a.t. will take those out. they're going to get up close now and they're going to try to get a good handle on what's going on inside there. if one actor is deceased in there, erika, the then tn the ir them is explosives. they have to make sure there's not a booby-trap or explosives in there or someone else was hiding in there. >> initially we heard reports this was more of a commercial area but when we saw the aerial views, it did appear to be residential. one reporter talking about seeing officers going house to house and clearing yards. give us a sense of how this plays out between the different law enforcement agencies because we do know there was a mass of

response. those were the word that were used between the police department, the sheriff's department, fbi, atf, we have the s.w.a.t. teams. who takes the lead in this case? >> well, in this case the san bernardino city police have the ticket. it's all happened in their city. and they are the ticket agency, the agency that deals with it up front. and everybody that comes in supports them, the sheriff's department, the state troopers, fbi, atf, u.s. marshals, whoever is going to come in and help, they're going to work as a command unit, joint operation. but san bernardino city police is where this is happening. so they have the ticket. and their s.w.a.t. team is there. it's probably that left vehicle and on the right maybe the sheriff's vehicle. so, you know, they're helping each other. >> as we're watching this, we're watching that shield get closer to this vehicle. walk us through what's happening in the other part of the investigation at this point.

there are potentially multiple witnesses who we know are being interviewed. what are the kinds of things they will be asked to get a better sense so that law enforcement can get sense of why these shooters in fact were there today? >> right. well, great question. they're going to have to debrief every witness, a complete interview will be done, all the video in the buildings, all the shell casings. this has to be recreated so citizens and law enforcement can have an idea why this happened. there will be criminal charges because you have one captured who is not wounded and one who's wounded so you're going to have a trial. and all this has to be prepared for the prosecution. the district attorney is going to have capital murder charges against these defendants. so everything's got to be done

just perfect. the other issue we all talk about in law enforcement is are there other conspirators who want to do some violent act like this somewhere else. who are these guys? >> let me interrupt you for one second. it looks like they're getting a little closer and possibly opening up the door. we see officers getting closer to that vehicle. >> they're moving that blis ek shield up and getting in there. they're getting up close where they can look in and look down. they might have to pull the door open. they're being covered -- i don't know if you can see the s.w.a.t. officers in the top hatches on both of the bearcats. they're covering them, looking in case somebody was alive or something was to happen, they can cover them. the s.w.a.t. officers just to the left of the screen. >> we saw somebody behind that shield appearing to give sort of that sign with the arm that we all know come on in. we've soon people come out of

the backs of these bearcats, cautiously making their way over. they're not holding shields. is that because we do know there are hand held shields that could be held or used. that something that would be used in a case like this? or do they rely simply on this larger shield that they have up against the suv now? >> the carry ballistic shield you would be carrying more if you engaged the suspect. with the s.w.a.t. officers on the left, they're using the defender of the bearcat as their cover. the fender is armored as well. you notice you couldn't get a shot of them. because they're against the fender. you see the angle on the right. you see the two officers using the armored bearcat as cover. everybody has cover. the two guys at the top use the gas port, the steel that folds up, that round circle. the guys behind the ballistic shield. everybody is covered. this is the talent and training

of america's s.w.a.t. teams. this is the way they operate. you're not going to get a shot at us. we're going be behind cover and we're going win the battle. of course, they wear ballistic body armor as well. but they're very careful. you see how they pinched it in. they're methodical. they're not in a hurry. they're professional. they're going to go in there and check everything out. they're not going to do anything they don't have to do that is going to put anybody at risk. safety, and they're going to win the fight, and they're going to be safe doing it. >> and we are pulling away from that shot a little bit again. these pictures coming in to us from our affiliate knbc and their chopper out there as we continue our coverage. we should point out the mayor of san bernardino has spoken out, mayor kerry davis saying our community experienced severe loss and severe shock today. noting it's critical in moments like this our city unites in supporting the victims, their families and the efforts against crime in our city. there has been a lot of praise up into this hour for the

response that we saw, jim. and it was swift. within moments of the first call, not just the police department, but multiple agencies responding. do you believe that had to do with the location, the timing? how were they able to have such a swift response from so many agencies at once? >> well, you know, it's just the times we live in. and law enforcement is very tuned in to the mass shootings and working together. you know, we work together on so many issues involving violence. violent crime task force, the joint terrorism task forces that the fbi runs. interactions on all kinds of crime. everybody knows each other. and so -- and the s.w.a.t. teams, they all train together. so none of them are strangers. so the s.w.a.t. teams for the city, the county, the state and the federal agency train together. they know each other. so when they call in for help, they call in and they can move their trucks and they all use

similar maneuvers for safety and similar equipment. so they know how to work together. and that makes them stronger. police the paramilitary. not military, but have to be paramilitary sometimes to be able to do it safely. >> and your point in terms of working together and in terms of training, the san bernardino county fire department which was on the scene very quickly, and some of the initial pictures that we saw, i don't know if we have those available to us. some of the initial pictures that we saw earlier this afternoon were of this triage area that was set up at an intersection. and that happened very quickly. and a lot of that set up as we understand it san bernardino county, san bernardino fire as they got there. their facebook page san bernardino county fire noting that they participated in an active shooter exercise just yesterday, posting photos online of that. and these are the kind of trains that law enforcement and first

responders are going through all the time all over the country these days. >> well, that's right. you know, when you get into counties where the city and the county have the same name, you have the san bernardino city fire and the san bernardino county fire. but when this happens in the city, the county is backing them up. and of course they're in the line of fire as well. setting up the triage center right there in the intersection. they don't know where the shooters are. and the shooters could have doubled back on them. they try to take precautions. i'm sure they had patrol officers that were trying to cover that perimeter. but it was a very dangerous situation for the firefighters as well. but i'm sure that they saved anybody that could be saved. unfortunately, with 14 dead, with three gunman with long guns in a conference area, oh, that's extremely deadly situation. long guns at a conference area just shooting innocent people. you know, it's a miracle sometimes we just don't have more deaths in these things. this is unbelievably horrible case. but it looks like the three

actors have been caught. so a day of bad news there is one little tidbit of good news. and that's the three actors have been caught. so they can't kill again. >> we should note again this is a really fluid situation. we're seeing word from rick serrano who is a reporter at the l.a. times, fbi justice reporter noting he is hearing from some federal law enforcement officials. they believe maybe one man angrily left a meeting and returned with one or two overs and began shooting. it's so interesting as we try to piece all of this together. i keep coming back to this point with you. it really is fascinating. much of what we have seen in terms of shootings and mass shootings in this country has involved a lone wolf in many ways, a single person. but the fact that there were three people. back to what we heard in the very first press conference, three people described as coming in with a purpose, with an intent. interesting to hear some of this other reporting coming out. again, very fluid situation. three people together coming in

as we were told with a purpose and with long guns. we know at least from that initial -- the initial information they didn't leave anything behind. an interesting scene that is set for us today. >> we'll have to see how that plays out. you know, do you get kicked out of a meeting dressed all in black with tactical gear and rifles. it doesn't sound like that's how you would attend a meeting for health officials. >> it's true. it doesn't seem that's how you would show up at a meeting. >> yeah, but it could have been the day before. and sometimes people can get brothers, you know, brothers to help them do vengeful things. nothing can be ruled out. until they decide who are these guys and what they did this for. it's not to say that you couldn't get somebody to get on a revenge motive with you. it's just difficult. it's just unusual. sometimes we'll see that with brothers. two brothers will act to make an attack against someone who they want to seek revenge on.

sometimes we see those kinds of activities. it's just hard to get strangers to act if your revenge. >> right. >> it's not impossible. but it's just harder to do. >> because they have to have a reason. to your point, there has to be some reason to entice them and to make them want to be a part of, in this case, a horrific, horrific act. we are seeing now the shots from this shopper pull out a little bit, give some more distance. so we can't see so closely what is happening on the ground. not a huge surprise there. how important is that? it's okay to have some pictures and to talk about it. but obviously, how important is it that we pull out a little bit to give this space to those s.w.a.t. officers on the ground? >> yeah, very good. i think nbc in l.a. has been doing that all day. not showing s.w.a.t.'s movement. of course, this, at this point the actors all know because they're all shot dead or captured. so it's okay to show it. but earlier by not showing it was a smart move.

you don't want to give up the position of s.w.a.t. as they're moving in along a wall, or moving in maybe to make an entry into a door or something. you don't want the guy watching tv inside a building and he knows just where you are. so that's a good move by a professional journalist not to do that. and then within a few minutes or half hour, that footage can be used. and would be of no value to someone who was captured. yeah, that's the right way to go. now this here, of course, anybody on the street can see this. and these guys are all captured. so this is not going to hurt anything. and, in fact, the bad guys definitely know where s.w.a.t. is because they're right in front of their nose, if they were there. >> if they are in fact in there watching. they are right out the window. so tough to miss. >> right, right. >> looking at this in a broader sense, one of the things that has come up is the center that was initially targeted. and again, we don't know who the targets were. but a lot of outrage, and frankly sadness that this was a

center that helps people with disabilities, that helps people every single day in this area. tens of thousands of people, so that they can feel empowered and independent and lead successful independent lives. and that can't be overshadowed, of course, by what is happening here. 14 people have lost their lives. at latest number, 17 are injured. and that too is something to grapple with, jim. >> no, it is, eric. you were just in paris, and you saw that horror over there. and here we have these shooters. and i was struck by the fact that the witness you have on earlier, to talk about the guy was wearing a mask. >> i have to interrupt you, jim, for one second. i'm sorry. because we do want to get this information in. we are hearing again, and correct me if i'm wrong, we're hearing that our pete williams is reporting that one person, james, can you say that to me again? one person is at large, and there are reports from knbc that that person may in fact be

barricaded in a church that is something obviously we're going to continue to follow. we're told police are closing in right now. so we are monitoring that, getting more information fro both pete williams, our justice correspondent, and also from the folks at our affiliate knbc in los angeles. and with that, we want to toss it over to chris matthews, who continues our coverage now out of washington. chris? >> well, good evening, i am chris matthews in washington. here we are with the news. and it's extraordinary. it's an opportunity to see the power of television tonight in a tragic situation where the tv camera, we're looking at it right now is ahead of the reporting. you're hearing the reporters think about what they think is going on here and we're watching, trying to decipher what is going on. three police cars surrounding a car, a dark suv which was the suspected vehicle all along this afternoon. and they circled it. and we're trying to figure out now what kind of a standoff this is and what the police officers,