good morning. i'm chris jansing in san bernardino, california, where it is now 6:00 a.m. lot of big headline this is morning. let's get you caught up. president obama will address a nervous nation tonight in prime time from the oval office about the investigation into wednesday's attack here that killed 14 people, now being investigated by the fbi as an act of terrorism and to talk about what the u.s. is doing to keep people safe. aides say he will also address the broader threat of terrorism,

how it's changing and his plans for defeating that. more in a moment. also getting our first look at a raid that took place early saturday morning. the fbi storming the home right next door to where the shooters used to live in riverside, california. authorities believe the man who lived there bought the assault weapons used in wednesday's attack. the owner is not considered to be a suspect in the shooting. more details on that ahead. we'll also examine the pakistan connection and what investigators are finding out about this woman, tashveen malik and her life before she moved to the u.s. let's begin this hour at white house with nbc's ron allen and tonight's prime time address by president obama. it's not something he does very often, as you well know, ron. what are we expecting to hear? >> third time during his presidency, chris, and i think we're expecting and hoping the nation certainly is, to hear the president explain what happened in san bernardino, and what this threat is, and what he's doing about it. there's every indication --

there's every indication that this was an act of terrorism, yet the president has been talking about this as a possibly being a workplace shooting, and calling for gun control, that was his initial reaction. so there's a feeling among his critics that this is perhaps another example of the president underestimating, not understanding, only reacting to the threat of terrorism. and so there will be a lot of pressure on the president to explain not only what happened but his response, and again, on the terrorism front, there are many aspects of this, first what's happening overseas in the fight against isis, the strategy that's been so questioned of air strikes, the coalition and local troops on the ground, that so many say is not really yielding the results that it should be, and then there's the question of what happens now at home, because it seems to be a different kind of threat. you have essentially an american citizen, his wife in the suburbs

of america, 6-month-old child, apparently inspired by not directed by the terrorist group who carry out the lone wolf like attack, if that's what, in fact, this is. so a lot of pressure, how do you deal with that? what do you do now is what is the threat america now faces? it's a very big moment, chris, for the president, for the country, and i think that's why he certainly is making these remarks from the oval office to explain to the america public and reassure the public that the situation is under control, but so many people as you say are just very nervous and very worried. chris? >> ron allen at the white house for us this morning, thank you. you can watch the president's address to the nation here on msnbc, live coverage at 7:00 p.m. eastern time. now, more on that fbi raid here in southern california and the latest on the investigation. for that, let's go first to morgan radford. good morning, morgan. >> reporter: good morning, chris. today the fbi is focusing on the

digital footprints of both of the shooters, focusing mainly on their interactions online and also the data found on the cell phones and damaged laptops that were disguarded near the scene. this weekend, new developments in an overnight raid the fbi conducted on a childhood friend of farook, 28 years old. the childhood friend not only bought but sold the guns used in the attack to farook. they opened the garage door, blew it up but couldn't interview the man inside although they do not believe he is actually a suspect but here's what they believe about the two shooters, they know that tashveen malik moved to smack stand a hotbed for islamic extremism recruiting. they're asking questions did she radicalize her husband? did she come back for the purpose of targeting him? then there's farook, a college

grad, landlord said clean cut, a restaurant inspector and friends said they had no way to believe he was the mastermind so a lot more questions this morning, two press conferences being held tomorrow. >> we will be looking at those carefully as well. thanks for those details. recently publish aid study on the recruitment and radicalization of people. errol we'll get to your research in a second. today's news i want to look at that raid on enheek marquez' home. he bought two guns in the attack but so distraught he couldn't talk to authorities and checked himself into a clibic. reports are they talked to him but he couldn't give much detail because he was so distraught. what are the key questions for him? >> the key questions for him,

chris, will be of course about the weapons, how they were purchased, what they'd do with them, whether he had weapons before. the question is the social network of the couple, how large is it, what kinds of conversations did they have, is there a broader plot, were there other targets? we need to get the scope of their relationships and the scope of their plot under wraps before we can go forward and get our arms around what's going on. >> we're also hearing the fbi talk farook's mother for nine hours. she lived with the couple described as a bomb making factory. what could she offer, nine hours for most of us seems like a long time, but what are they looking for? >> well, they really want to know what this mother knows about her son, what kinds of things did he say. did his behavior change? it's not uncommon in some of the attacks we've seen in the past where close family members

despite living in the same residence don't know what's going on in the room next door. she's the best source of this information. they'll also be asking her about associates and other things that may have happened in his life that could have perhaps had this cognitive opening where he decided he needed to engage in a vie let attack. >> we talk so much about how this all came together, and how none of it at least big parts don't seem to make sense, even director comey said that. i guess my question is could they have pulled off an tack like this with no help? it's an elaborate plan when you look at what was in the house. >> chris, that's a very good question and you have to look at some of the components here. pro curing the weapons is something they possibly did alone or with a friend. what's interesting here are the 12 pipe bombs. it would appear on the face of it that this was going to be a

larger plot. i've spent a lot of time in the middle east with some experts on bomb making, and the city of nablus where a lot of bomb makers are trained, 40% of them have accidents when making explosives, so i can't get my arms around a couple who is making explosive devices in their garage and were successful enough to not have an accident and make a mistake. that's another component here. i think again another very important key to this investigation is did they have help, were there resources was there intelligence, were they financed? how large does the scope of this plot? >> and finally, because you've done so much extensive research on foreign fighter recruitment, from what you know from the facts out there, are these the type of people who are susceptible to recruitment, to recruitment from terror groups? >> well, this certainly is going to be a slight aberration of what we've seen. i will say this. the group of people that are

being recruited and radicalized is extremely diverse. we've seen both genders. we've seen people that are successful, like this individual. it's not uncommon. but one of the things that we are going to be looking at is just to see what kinds of changes happened in his life. you know, we think that it's because they don't have an opportunity in this country, this gentleman was employed with benefits, had been there for some time so that wasn't the case. we also think that online recruitment is the only effort here. we can see in this case that may not have been the situation as well. >> counterterrorism expert errolsuthers, thank you. scotland yard this morning says it is treating an attack at a tube station as a terrorist incident. nbc's keir simmons has more on the investigation from london. >> reporter: chris, good morning. witnesses say people ran for their lives from the subway station where this happened last night, fearing it might be the latest terror attack in europe.

after the attacker was arrested some onlookers shouted at him "you're not muslim" a message that is spread on social media. this morning police are investigating the attacker's real motives. in a london subway station, an assailant armed with a knife arrested by two police officers. video of the dramatic moment captured on social media. witnesses heard shouts of "this is hysteria" as commuters were attacked apparently at random. >> i just hear him say "this is for syria." >> reporter: there was panic as people escaped what appeared to be more jihadist aggression targeting members of the public. >> it was really scary. >> reporter: one man suffered serious knife wounds while one other received minor injuries. london's counterterrorism police are investigating the case. britain has been on a high state of alert, severe, meaning a terrorist attack is highly likely. this morning, downing street says it is monitoring the investigation, as police try to

establish the true motivation for this terrifying attack. the most severely injured victim is not in a life-threatening condition, doctors say, while some witnesses say the attacker's knife was just three inches long, underscoring how easily panic and fear can be spread with the current anxious atmosphere across europe. chris? >> nbc's keir simmons in london, thanks, keir, appreciate that. coming up the pakistan cash, tashfeen malik's life before she moved to the u.s. and as president obama gets ready to deliver an oval office address on the san bernardino shooting we'll talk with former cua director james woolsey about the terrorist threat. could you save 1% more of your income? it doesn't sound like much, but saving an additional 1% now, could make a big difference over time. i'm going to be even better about saving.

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we have new images from moultan, pakistan this morning of the former home of tashfeen malik, one of the san bernardino attackers from her time as a pharmacy student in pakistan in the years before she eventually made her way in the u.s. in 2014. american and pakistani officials now trying to sift through that time of her life, searching for clues that might explain her involvement in this attack. her national identity card establishes her as a pakistani, complete with fingerprints, her birthday and marks which identify her. we know she was born in pakistan, raised in saudi arabia, before returning there for college but ultimately traveled to the u.s. on that pakistani passport. for the latest we turn to nbc's bill neely who is live for us in islamabad. what are intelligence officials looking for, what are they finding this morning? >> reporter: yes, good morning, chris. tashfeen malik is as much a mystery here in pakistan as she is in the united states,

certainly to pakistan's intelligence agency, because she wasn't on any government or law enforcement watch list. she'd done nothing wrong here, or in saudi arabia, where she grew up. she was a very private person. we have as you said very few photographs of her. one of them being on her pakistani i.d. card, which she had to have. one of her college friends at moultan university told "the washington post" in fact that tashfeen destroyed most of the photographs that she had that showed her not wearing a veil, and that friend also said that in her years at university, she became more and more deeply religious and conservative. we know that her father is an engineer with a conservative and religion man but certainly initially, tashfeen wore a head scarf, yes, but often western clothes, but as her years went on at moultan university she became more deeply religious. she attended religious classes

in the evening. but you know that's like millions of with omen in pakist. none of which explains promising pharmacy student who got her masters degree to being a terrorist, how she went in the united states from being a soft spoken suburban mom with a 6-year-old daughter to becoming a black clad terrorist wearing a mask, carrying an automatic rifle, shooting at police and murdering people. so her background explains who she was, but not why she did what she did. was she radicalized here? frankly, we don't know. did she lead her husband on? did he lead her on? again, we don't know. she pledged allegiance to the isis leader, abu bakr al baghdadi, but there is absolutely no evidence that she was ordered by or directed by isis, no evidence isis even knew of her existence. so she was from here, but as a terrorist, really, chris, she

came from absolutely nowhere. >> yes, the key questions outlined there, the how, the when and of course the motive. nbc's bill neely in pakistan, thank you for that. let's get more insight into the global terrorism investigation, i'm joined by ambassador r. james woolsey, farmer director of central intelligence. good morning. >> good to be with you. >> so investigators are continuing their search in pakistan this morning. what is it about this period in her life that's of particular interest to investigators? what kinds of things might suggest that she was radicalized there as opposed to saudi arabia, or even after she came here? >> i don't know, but since this happens in a number of ways, it happens across the web, it happens with social media, it happens in person-to-person contact, husband to wife, wife to husband, brother to sister, the spread of essentially jihadism. it's not going to tell us a lot if one more case was done in

pakistan rather than in qatar, for example. there's just a lot of ways in which this radicalism and murderous radicalism spreads. >> we look for signs and obviously we just heard this from bill neely during her time at university, she became more religious and started wearing a burqa, she destroyed pictures of herself which all sounds unusual to us maybe, but not out of the norm for some women who are devout muslims in that part of the world and apparently not unusual among some of her own classmates, but was that at least an indicator or a red flag? >> for some people it's an indicator. for some others it could just be that they've gotten more religious. a smul sall subset of the musli worldous jihadis but there are some.

certainly not all muslims and we shouldn't assume that, but some are, and so when you have a devout muslim, they may just well be a devout muslim but they could be on a track such as she and her husband went on. >> i was talking to someone close to this investigation, one of the things that they're clearly looking at is did one turn the other, sort of who was the lead on this? what is your first impression when you're looking at the husband and wife dynamic here? >> it's really hard to tell. to me, that's not, that's the way they were linked but not the key thing for society to look at in order to try to get a handle on what's happening. we've cut way back on our ability to use data including data, the so-called metadata, as a result of snowden, and google now knows a lot more about what

websites you've visited than the government does. amazon knows more about what you bought than the government does. they know more about any type of data than the government does. we have so retreated from utilizing data, even data that does not get into the substance of people's communications with one another, that we're getting more and more limited in what we can understand. >> and i want to turn now to the president's speech tonight, what you're expecting to hear about his plans in the broader war on terrorism, what do you think he needs to say to calm some of the fears that people are feeling today? >> well, he needs to call it straight. it is his lack of willingness to call these jihadis jihadis is really very frustrating to people who follow these matters

closely. ray bradbury in the 1950s wrote a book called "fahrenheit 451" about political correctness, makes great fun of it and almost as if bradbury's novel has gotten translated into modern american political behavior. you can't deal with something unless you can describe it accurately. it wasn't the indians or the menonnites killing women in colonial america in the 17th century in salem. it was puritans, and one can't understand what was going on unless one understands what was going through the puritans' subset of them anyways thinking at the time. you can't just characterize things as violence and expect people to understand or work the problem and solve it. >> former cia director r. james woolsey, always good to talk to you.

thanks so much for coming on the program. >> good to be with you. up next, we're going to return to the domestic fallout from wednesday's attack. we'll introduce you to a congressional candidate who just resigned from the nra in the wake of the san bernardino shooting. stay with us. ok, we're here. here's dad. mom. the twins. aunt alice... you didn't tell me aunt alice was coming. of course. don't forget grandpa. can the test drive be over now? maybe just head back to the dealership? don't you want to meet my family? yep, totally. it's practically yours, but we still need your signature. the volkswagen sign then drive event. zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first months payment on a new jetta and other select models. ho, ho, hello... can you help santa with a new data plan? sure thing... uh right now you can get 15 gigs of data for the price of 10.

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an absolutely gorgeous sunrise here in san bernardino, a city that is still in mourning following the horrible terrorist attacks. let's talk about the changes on fwn reform being discussed again because it's seemingly impossible to get something done in congress these days, in the years since the sandy hook massacre, it is falling to states and sometimes cities to step in. connecticut cited that massacre and enacted a universal background check law in 2013 that requires background checks for all guns, ammunitions and magazine sales. new laws in colorado, delaware, illinois and new york also called for background checks on

private gun sales and missouri and north dakota passed laws requiring background checks for people applying for a conceal and carry permit. in that year a universal background check law passed both legislative chambers but vetoes by the republican governor brian sandoval. the flurry of legislation since andy hook. if congress struggles to pass any legislation in the wake of the mass shooting in san bernardino, what will it take for that to change? one former state lawmaker this week is hoping that change at the federal level will start with him. the former speaker of the nevada assembly, a democrat, john o'seguera running for congress wrote an open letter to the nra's executive vice president wayne lapierre wednesday. "our country is facing a tragic gun violence epidemic and we cannot ignore it. i cannot continue to be a member while the nra refuses to back closing these loopholes. therefore i resign my membership in the nra effective

immediately. please remove my name from your membership list." joining me now to discuss his decision to resign his lifetime nra membership, is former speaker of the nevada assembly, john oseguera, democratic congressional candidate in nevada's fourth district. good morning, thanks for being with us. >> good morning, chris, thanks for having me. so why this? why now? >> chris, you know, i grew up and this is nevada, i grew up in a culture of guns. i'm one of the kids that went duck hunting before he went to school in the morning. i still have my grandma's .22 rifle, she would be 90 or so now, that she used on the unr, university of nevada reno's rifle team. so there was a culture there, but things have changed dramatically since that time. for me personally, my father had a history of domestic violence and abuse, killed a woman and

killed themselves with a weapon. i had a good friend who had a history of mental illness that killed himself, and then these events that you were just speaking of over the last year, just started to take a toll. then finally, i guess this week, when the united states senate passed a bill to restrict gun ownership of those who are on the fbi's watch list, can't even get on an airplane, but they can buy a gun is at that point that i said enough is enough. you know, the nra has a stranglehold over our members of congress, and i'm just not going to stand for that. i'm just talking about reasonable things here, reasonable things, people with mental illness, people that have criminal histories, people that are potential terrorists shouldn't have guns. reasonable solutions. >> as you know, this has become a hot topic once again on the campaign trail, ted cruz and donald trump among those on the republican side speaking forcefully about guns in the wake of the shooting this week,

but i think what they said reflects the views of a lot of people who are members of the nra. let's play what they had to say. >> you don't stop bad guys by taking away our guns. you stop bad guys by using our guns. >> what happened to us just now the two sleazebags that did what they did, were they killed 14 people, probably end up being more than that by the time it's over with, because people are in very, very serious shape, but if there were a couple of people in that room that had guns, if this guy here or this guy here or that guy or that woman, if you had guns, it would have been a different story, right? >> i mean, there are a couple of arguments, one obviously is what you don't want to happen, this is the argument on the other side, what you don't want to happen is that guns are only in the hands of the bad guys. you're, you might keep them away from people like you, who

legitimately may want to hunt. what do you say to that? >> what i say is what we're talking about here, it always goes to the vitriol, on the attack left and right here over my stance here i'm aund tack and i'm not saying anything about taking somebody's guns. i'm a law abiding owner, i carry a gun. i'm not saying let's take your guns away, i'm not saying i'm giving my guns away. i'm saying that people with mental illness, people that are terrorists, that were watching, people domestic batterers shouldn't have guns. that's what we're saying. we're not saying, it always goes to the extreme and that's part of the problem that the nra is just unreasonable, they won't negotiate at all, and i think that's wrong, and that's why i took this stand that i did. >> former speaker of the nevada state assembly and congressional candidate, thank you very much, john oseguera, appreciate it.

>> thank you, i appreciate being on the show. still ahead what message will president obama deliver to an anxious nation tonight, that's next as our coverage from san bernardino continues next. t. introducing boost 100 calories. each delicious snack size drink gives you... 25 vitamins and minerals and 10 grams of protein. so it's big in nutrition and small in calories. i'm not about to swim in the slow lane. stay strong. stay active with boost®. ♪ (vo) some call it giving back. we call it share the love. during our share the love event, get a new subaru, and we'll donate $250 to those in need. bringing our total donations to over sixty-five million dollars. and bringing love where it's needed most. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

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alka-seltzer plus. president obama's astress to the nation from the oval office tonight comes only four days after 14 people were killed and 1 more injured here in san bernardino, california. in his weekly address yesterday president obama calling it an act of terror. it's also only three weeks since the attacks in paris that took 130 lives with isis claiming responsibility for that attack. in his speech tonight president obama is facing a dual challenge in calming the fears of worried americans that more attacks could be coming and assuring his critics that he's doing enough in the broader campaign to defeat isis. joining us now former senior aid to senator chuck schumer and robert george, new york post

editorial writer. thanks to both of you for being with us. >> good morning. >> michael, what do you see as the big challenge for the president tonight. >> being able to encapsulate and explain away perhaps some of the history that has gotten us to this point which is of course while the situation and ongoing mess in in iraq can be laid at the bush administration the american and western european response to the arab spring including syria created much of this mess, so being able to address that in some way and move on and talk about how the administration will tackle these complicated issues, in a way from a political perspective that doesn't hamstring the clinton presidential campaign since of course she was secretary of state when so many of the decisions were being made. >> how do you see him and his speechwriters obviously handling that balance between addressing what the united states' position is, what he's doing about it,

what he plans to do about it, but also calming the fears of a worried nation? >> well, that's a very good question, and i'm sure that the speechwriters were up all night figuring that out and part of the problem is, i think the president has in a sense been kind of hamstrung by his own reaction to this. he felt good at withdrawing the u.s. footprint in afghanistan and iraq and so forth would pivot the country away from these issues of terrorism, particularly coming from the middle east, and that of course clearly hasn't happened. and he also in contrast to some of his republican critics has been sort of for want of a better phrase the nuance or in chief on these issues, particularly on figuring out how to address the issue of radical islamic terrorism, and he really needs to have sort of be a lot more bolder and direct in

dealing with what is a clear threat and something that he hasn't really wanting to really assess as a threat specifically to the country. >> you know, michael, after the paris attacks, the president took a lot of criticism, folks felt he wasn't enough perhaps of comfort in chief, the calmer in chief. we've seen what mad skills he has and i would say in particular i remember so vividly the statements he made at memorial services after newtown and after charleston, but some people including democratic members of congress i've talked to in recent days say he hasn't done enough to directly address fears, so sort of what i'm hearing from both of you and correct me if i'm wrong, michael, is that the real way to address those fears is to articulate a clear plan. is there a part b of that as

well? >> i don't know there's a part b. first we need to figure out the president and his speechwriters and aides and i would disagree with robert to say i think they'll be working on this up to the middle of the speech, is the emphasis going to be on terrorism, inspired terrorism or on gut. once it's declared an act of terror it's not about gun control, because if you have homemade pipe bombs and you have access through foreign channels to some sort of weaponry then air not talking about guns and background checks and the pipeline between the south and the north, and how the availability of guns in the midwest and the west. i'd like to find out first what is it he's going to be talking about tonight. if we're talking about a plan, is it a gun control plan, is it a terrorism plan and i really don't think those two issues are the same, and i don't know that they could be conflated. certainly as republican critics are making this about terrorism so they don't have to talk about gun control in the run-up to the primaries and caucuses on the republican side.

>> and yesterday actually in his weekly address, he tried to sort of walk that line, where he had an address that was partly about gun control, but he also admitted that san bernardino was an act of terrorism, and i really think tonight i have to agree with michael here, i hope he makes this clearly an issue of terrorism, and what kind of a response the u.s. has to it, particularly domestically grown terrorism. >> robert, michael, thanks so both of you, very interesting conversation, appreciate it. a reminder, you can watch the president's speech tonight on msnbc, chris matthew also bring special coverage starting at 7:00 p.m. eastern time. we'll be back with both of those gentlemen in just a bit. they'd be a lot happier with the capital one venture card. and you would, too! why? it's so easy with venture. you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, every day. just book any flight you want

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records are being held by phone companies and the government needs a court order to access them, part of the big political fight before they went into effect, now all of this is coming back following what happened here in san bernardino. classic case of balancing the right to privacy against homeland security. michael tubman and robert george still with us. robert, in your opinion, in making these changes, was it a mistake? >> that's a very good question. i don't think it was completely a mistake. i think that the debate over the issue of metadata was something the country really needed ba us a lot of those things had been sort of passed through very quickly in post 9/11, and now of course we are trying to think about, and there's a debate actually on the republican side as well as between republicans and democrats as to whether it

went too far. as a pundit i'm supposed to come down on this one way or the other but i'm saying i'm not sure at this point whether it was a mistake and something i think the debate needs to continue and we need to figure out where we go, going forward. >> and michael, obviously this debate is going to continue, but i guess the question is, is that all it's going to be is a debate or does this give new ammunition to the other side, and possibly these reforms could be pulled back? >> there's a saying in legislative lawyer circles that awful tragedies make bad laws. in the rush to address these issues and the rush to reconsider what was as robert pointed out a deliberate effort to in a thoughtful way roll back some of the post 9/11 privacy invasions and of course the technological innovations and the ability to analyze and secure big data has grown

exponentially almost in an unknowable way since 9/11, no. i don't think this gives ammunition to the other side. i think that individual tragedies no matter how awful they are and heart rendering should not give rise to knee-jerk legislative fixes which are anything but. we have different rules in europe and asia. we have government intrusion and involvement in technology and privacy issues throughout a broad spectrum from asia and europe and the united states and latin america and these servers could be anywhere on the web as everywhere, so a u.s. response to big data and eavesdropping and privacy invasions and balancing security and liberty are almost academic conversations when you can just pick up all the technology and move it to a different country or offshore. >> and keep in mind -- >> and becoming -- i just want to, if i can, talk about what is going on, on the campaign trail

because marco rubio was against these changes, and on friday he really hammered ted cruz over his support for the bill. let me just play that and get your reaction on the other side. >> yes, there are policy differences between me and ted cruz. he supported weakening the intelligence programs of this country. i do not. it's a legitimate issue to have a debate over. barack obama proposes even that we cut it. that's a legitimate policy difference. >> robert, i know you wanted to get in here. help us put this in political context. >> one other thing that's interesting, ted cruz has in a sense been carving some area on the political spectrum in sort of in the rand paul nexus, and he is very skeptical of some of these issues on metadata questions, and good for him. there is a solid libertarian sensibility skepticism of large government intrusion and so

forth within the republican party and ted cruz is squarely in there, and as marco rubio said, that is a very good conversation to be having on the republican side, balancing security with large government oversight, and you know, i'm glad that that's happening within the party. >> robert george, michael to todman, thank you, good to see you this morning. >> thank you. >> thank you. still ahead as the president prepares to address the nation in a speech that is expected to include his plans to defeat isis, we'll take a closer look at how that effort receives new reinforcements this week. healt. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension. your blood pressure could drop to an unsafe level. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing.

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a high school football game here in southern california last night paid tribute to the victims of the san bernardino shootings. a moment of silence was held before the game of the titans and the lions.

the titans wearing the initials of a former alum on their football helmets. damian mines graduated from notre dame in 1975. thousands of people attended the annual christmas parade in redlands, california, the place where the shooters live, showing the community spirit and the holiday spirit endures. tonight's primetime address by the president is expected to touch on not just the recent attacks here in san bernardino and three weeks ago in paris but also his administration's broader campaign to defeat isis. british jets joined that fight on wednesday, carrying out a new round of strikes against isis targets in syria yesterday. the u.k. joining france, germany and the lead, the u.s., in the western military coalition against isis. russia is also in the mix but with that government still aligned with the assad regime, we give it an asterisk.

for more on the air campaign against isis we're joined by steve clemmons, washington editor at large for the atlanta who writes frequently about foreign affairs. steve, it's good to talk to you. >> good to see you. >> what's the impact of britain entering the campaign? will they make a difference? >> well, i think right now on the front edge with just a bombing campaign it's not as much of a difference as you would hope over time but i think it's important symbolically and politically in reuniting some of the major players who dealt with global problems in the past. so having britain across that line finally is important politically. but we're seeing a real inefficacy, almost an im tense of bombing campaigns. isis continues to show very dramatic resilience and they have to figure that out. bombing doesn't seem to be making the dent that they had hoped. >> yeah, and obviously one of the things that has been a centerpiece for president obama is diplomacy and during the

u.k.'s parliament debate, prime minister cameron said he thinks there is momentum behind diplomatic talks on syria. do you think that's really true? could there be some sort of diplomatic solution on the horiz horizon? >> vienna is absolutely important. it's important to think about what bold things might be achieved when you have countries like saudi arabia and iran essentially in the same room. because then it's not just about what isis is doing in syria and iraq. it's really about a fundamental tension, a sunni/shia tension that's manifesting itself in conflict throughout that entire region. so i hope that the vienna process moves in a direction beyond that. but it's fraught with problems, fraught with tensions. when you look at the coalition of nations that are on different sides of trying to fight isis in different ways, the complexity of this rubik's cube is astounding. the diplomatic process is vital

and fraught with challenges but i think it's very important with what they've begun to achieve. >> let's talk about vladimir putin and russia and their air campaign and where that might be going and the relationship between both the united states and russia and the others in the coalition. where do you see that standing right now, steve? >> it's a very tight knot and i think we shouldn't have any illusions that tomorrow russia and the united states will automatically be on the same side. russia is allied with bashar al sad and the syrian forces and we are not. that's going to continue to be problems. russia sees the turkmen as an enemy to help move isis oil and what not and turkey has in a way pledged to defend them. so you've got a knot right there between three countries. and there are so many other proxy conflicts going on above the syria conflict, that it

looks very messy. i think something can be achieved in terms of some joint coordination with russia, but we can't have illusions that we're all going to fall into the same line of battle and muscle through this together. i think there will be real tensions in targeting and real tensions in that theatre and how it's managed. >> and i don't think we can have this conversation without talking about ground troops and the possibility of new impetus for that, but would that go anywhere? >> well, i think when you put ground troops in, if you have a coordinated force and i think what a lot of people are beginning to talk about is, is it possible to get a force largely comprised of regional powers with u.s. or european involvement at some level. i think it's a very big hill to climb, but in the long run, if they want to undo isis, they need to go that direction. >> steve clemens of the atlanta, it's always good to see you. appreciate it. >> thanks, chris.

>> thanks so much for getting up with us today. up next, melissa harris-perry. today on mhp, the supreme court did to take up one of the most important cases on affirmative action. is the court about to put an end to race as a factor in college admissions? and a reminder, hard ball's chris matthews will bring you special coverage of the president's speech tonight starting at 7:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. by giving a to yourself. i am running for my future. people sometimes forget to help themselves. the cause is retirement, and today thousands of people came to race for retirement and pledge to save an additional one percent of their income. if we all do that we can all win. prudential bring your challenges®

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