i mean, there's some people that always are negative. but i just don't kind of buy it. >> well, governor kasich, i appreciate you taking a couple of minutes, calling in and proving people's points, that we'll take a lot of calls from candidates, not just the guy from new york city. thank you, sir. we'll be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." i want to thank katie burke, steve kornacki, sorry about that, but candidates trump you guys. erica hill picks up our coverage right now. on msnbc live this hour, donald trump doubling down on his proposed ban on muslims entering the u.s. talking about that today on "morning joe". >> you will have more world trade centers and you will have more bigger than the world trade center if we don't toughen up, smarten up, and use our heads. >> tonight, the white house and lawmakers on both sides of the aisle expressing outrage. >> we need a plan that is focused on the direct threat.

and the threat we're facing is radical islamic terrorism. >> this is not conservatism. >> it's not about the blowhards out there just saying stuff. that's not a program. that's not a plan. >> donald trump always plays on everyone's worst instincts and fears. >> and the fact is that what donald trump said yesterday disqualifies him from serving as president. >> how do you explain donald trump? i don't know. he says things over the top and people applaud. >> just how do explosive conversations like the one donald trump has now started impact the chance for open dialogue? that conversation is ahead this hour. good tuesday evening from new york and thanks for joining us. i'm erica hill. we begin tonight with a story that some fear could derail the republican party. donald trump and the question tonight, whether he's finally gone too far. last night, of course, announcing that he would ban all muslims from entering the united states. at a rally in south carolina, supporters enthusiastically cheering him on.

>> donald j. trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states, until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. >> in the past 24 hours, many republicans have come out against donald trump. >> what was proposed yesterday is not what this party stands for. and more importantly, it's not what this country stands for. >> would you support a policy that prohibits muslims from entering this country, including as tourists? >> no. that is not my policy. i believe the focus should focus on radical islamic terrorism. >> donald trump always plays on everyone everyone's worst instincts and fears and saying we're not going to let a single muslim into this country is a dangerous overreaction. >> this morning on msnbc, trump again defending his comments. >> i think it's something that has to be done. i think it's a temporary move. well, it's not unconstitutional,

keeping people out, frankly, until we get ahold of what's going on, joe. >> you certainly aren't proposing internment camps -- >> no, i'm not, at all -- by the way, i am not proposing that. joe, take a look back at roosevelt and take a look at the alien germans. they called them alien germans, alien italians, alien japanese because we were at war, joe. the muslim community has to help us. they're not helping us. when you say you're afraid, you should be afraid. you should be afraid of the other side, not my side. >> while donald trump has declined to get overly specific on just how his plan would work, there would likely be significant legal hurdles, not to mention potential constitutional issues. ari melber is msnbc's chief legal expert. so ari, first of all, from a purely legal standpoint, would it even be possible to ban all muslims from entering the united states? >> no, erica. it would be illegal and unconstitutional. donald trump doesn't seem to care about that, which i think is important and also revealing. but basically, there are some

lowered protections for non-citizens in certain constitutional areas. for example, search and seizure. you have more protection as an american citizen than as a non-citizen. but in this area, the law is established and clear, the government can't just make decisions based on suspect or inappropriate classes, like race or religion, even as it pertains to non-citizens, even if they are not ever going to come in the country. of course, immigration works by making those decisions. now, did donald trump consult his campaign lawyers? did he put out a practical plan? did he look at any of those precedents, you heard him mention on the fly, fdr, no. it was just a couple of paragraphs. and erica, i would note there's a big distinction here between the way donald trump approaches this, a very potentially important issue as he's a front-runner in the republican race and how he manages his own money. he uses lawyers to get legal advice and put out very specific guidance when he's doing business deals or managing his taxes. he didn't do that here, because he doesn't seem to care and he doesn't seem to take this seriously.

so, again, there's plenty of room for policy disagreement in presidential politics. as a matter of law and american precedent in history, this is both un-american, impractical, unlikely to be upheld in any modern way, and donald trump doesn't seem to care. people can make of that what they will. >> msnbc's ari melber, appreciate it, thanks. what is the greater political impact tonight of trump's comments, both at home and abroad, joining us to discuss that angle, daily beast columnist and sirius xm radio host deen obeidallah and david frum, former speechwriter for george w. bush. i want to play a little bit of sound we got in within the last hour or so, jeb bush speaking out. let's take a listen. >> these are dog whistle proposals to prey on people's fears and consume the news. it's not a serious campaign. every time he says something like this, disparaging groups across the board, it's more and more clear that he's not going to be president of the united

states. and donald trump doesn't represent republican values. >> so jeb bush, just within the last hour on "meet the press," here on msnbc. david, he may not, in jeb bush's estimation, represent republican values, but tonight, and as we've seen in the past few weeks, his rhetoric seems to be working in terms of supporters. . what tonight is a bigger concern for the republican party? is it donald trump running as an independent or is it donald trump as the republican nominee? >> well, let's just -- just to keep some perspective on the country for which donald trump purports to speak or seeks to speak, about 16% of americans are going to take part in a republican primary, if past performance is a indicator, and about a quarter of them support donald trump. so we are talking about a very small fragment of america that is being spoken to here. jeb bush is, of course, right in what he says. but the challenge for jeb bush and the other republicans in the field is, what are you going to do about this? this wave of denunciations

that's coming today, it's welcome, but the way you deal with populists who pick up these kinds of issues, whether it's the 1930s, the 1960s, or now, you go to their voters and find what are the real grievances and concerns that those voters have and how can responsible leaders meet them? on immigration, on trade, on entitlements that donald trump is speaking for a different class of person than the other republican parties listen to. and although his solutions are wrong, he is picking up some real grievances for a party where all the rest seem united on, you know, let's have big tax cuts and entitlements cuts and free trade and lots more immigration and a tremendous focus on the interests of a very -- the economic interests of a few. donald trump is wrongly and inappropriately and dangerously giving voice to some concerns that need to be heard in a responsible way. >> but david, let me interrupt you for a second. are those people who are feeling disenfranchised and who are finding someone who may speak to them, in a donald trump, are they more likely now to go out

and vote this time around? >> has he energized them? i don't believe it. i think if the republican party had a candidate who would -- the analogy i keep using is what richard nixon did to george wallace in 1968. when wallace was talking about crime in a way that was frankly racist, nixon understood that crime -- you have to sever the real concerns about rising crime from the racism that wallace was using, instead of just denouncing saying is, you're a racist if you worry about crime, say, let me figure out how to figure out crime in a way that's rationally neutral. >> to david's point, plenty of people have come out very swiftly and denounced these comments. maybe not an action plan, but saying this is un-american and there's no place for it in american politics. that being said, do those comments feel genuine? >> from donald trump? >> no. from both -- from everyone that we're hearing from. >> senator lindsey graham, he was very emphatic about it. i think paul ryan is very clear about it.

ted cruz, a little less clear, but still denouncing it. jeb bush, very clear. where i disagree with jeb bush, this isn't dog whistle, this is bigotry at its worst. saying muslims should be treated differently. and donald trump is going around reading a poll from frank gaffney's organization that 25% of american muslims here are a threat and want to kill you. frank gaffney's organization has been called by the anti-defamation league as one of the most notorious -- >> wildly discredited. >> it's very dangerous, what donald trump is doing. there are young muslim americans living in this country with the fear of being beaten up, women with hijabs being attacked, insults, bullying going on. and donald trump is painting a picture that muslims living among us might want to kill you. 25% might want to kill you. and they might have a grievance, but here's the grievance, 30% of republicans in recent poll think that islam should be banned in america. 30%. you can't address that grievance. that's changing the united states constitution and saying one religion no longer has the freedom of religion. we can't address that grievance. donald trump might be able to,

but you can't address it through real policy. >> but some of the other comments. can it be addressed in that way? is there a way -- let me backtrack that. does this actually change things now moving forward in the race? does it change the conversation for the rest of the candidates? >> i think in the future, sadly, it means that what donald trump has said, win or lose, becomes part of a narrative in the conversation where we've seen far-right parties in europe escalate and ascend, with this anti-immigrant rhetoric, i think donald trump has turned that from europe to america right now. will he win the nomination or not? but the gop has the look at themselves, do they want to be represented by a man who started out with a anti-latino comments, mocked a reporter, and now is demonizing muslims. do you want that to be the gop for 2016? it's your choice, republicans. >> david, there's the question of how this is being received and playing out on a global scale, because the world does watch what happens in american politics. how much of an impact are these comments, specifically after as

of late, having on u.s. policies and u.s. efforts abroad? >> i have no idea what the answer to that question is. and i think we may exaggerate how much the rest and how detailed the rest of the world pays attention to the united states. also, the issues here in the united states are very different. in europe, for example, there is a genuine internal security problem presented by its larger and much poorer and much less assimilated muslim minority. they have a genuine problem. and that shouldn't be disputed here. it shouldn't be -- and the american situation is so very different. but the thing i am concerned about is donald trump has just made it a little too easy for the rest of the republican party. that jeb bush and the others will be able to say, okay, i repudiate that. and i am now pursuing an agenda that is going to lose the 2016 election. because it's not enough to be a party that doesn't engage in name-calling. you also have to meet people's health care concerns, you have to have job programs and the party -- this is going to have a tendency to consolidate all the non-trump actors on the kind of

platform that republicans lost in 2012 and they will congratulate themselves, that they stood up for something, when they really haven't made enough change at all. >> dean, you're smiling as you're listening to david there. >> i think it's a very interesting time. i think the gop is at a crossroads, to be frank, and they're going to go fraorward wh this right-wing coalition and it's an internal fight within the gop, and it's their choice how they want to be defined. they want donald trump, america's watching, it's their call. >> david, if there isn't someone out there right now who in your estimation is a smart candidate for the gop, who could really win this thing, is there still time for somebody else to get in here? could the rnc -- could the gop establishment get together and say, here's our guy, or woman, this is who we need? >> i have never believed the republican problem is a who problem. in 2012, we had a candidate in mitt romney who would have been a wonderful president. and then we gave him things to say that made it impossible for him to be elected president.

i think many of the people -- the people in the race right now have the personal capacity to be an effective executive in that high office. they need a platform. this is not a problem of leadership, it's a problem of followership. they need to be given space to define a platform that can actually get elected in american -- in 2016. and that means a tax cut, yes, but smaller, and entitlement reforms that don't hurt middle-income people and struggling people. it means jobs programs, a lot of infrastructure, and it means immigration restriction, but not in a racist way, but in a way that is designed to protect the ways of americans that most directly compete with immigrant labor. >> dean, i'll let you have the last word. david got the first. >> internally, david is an expert that's going on with the gop. externally, it's very scary to see what's going on. i've never been as concerned. i've never had actual fear for people in the muslim american community as i have now with the words of donald trump.

we've heard from our history that politician's words can legitimatize hate, so in the civil rights movement, and can it inspire people to commit violence. that's my greatest concern. not the political rhetoric, but the words that reaches someone who's unhinged and they go out and attack a muslim, kill a muslim, fire bomb a mosque. >> is there any way to stop that tonight? >> i think the republicans standing up sends a great message. i can't applaud them enough for seeing the people on the right standing up very quickly and saying, this is absolutely wrong. dick cheney, a man who i've criticized endlessly had great words, very clear yesterday. this is not what america is about. i think that sends a good message for a lot of the people out there. >> nice to have you both with us tonight. thank you. >> thank you. >> coming up on nbc live, much more on the controversy surrounding donald trump, including some advice that came 55 years ago from a soon-to-be president who faced religious persecution himself. plus, muslims in the business community who suns supported trump now lashing out at his latest comments. what they're saying, just ahead. and you've heard what trump's

rivals have to say about his comments. democrats firing back as well. their words, coming up. this holiday i can count on someone's kid mistaking me for santa. i'm so sorry. come on sweetie. it's okay. and knowing right when my packages arrive. introducing real-time delivery notifications. one more reason this is our season.

as americans dissect donald trump's comments about muslims, many are also calling into question the eerie similarities his statements have with the past. just yesterday, the country commemorating the 74th anniversary of pearl harbor. during that time over 2,000 americans died after japanese air and naval assault, of course, there. yet little focus on the negative result of the bombing. those japanese internment camps. two months after the bombing, fdr signed an executive order, forcing all japanese americans to evacuate the west coast, resulting in the relocation of 120,000 people. and while donald trump has stopped short of suggesting the creation of new internment camps, he points to roosevelt has a model for his, quote, muslim ban. actor and activist george takei, who at 5 years old, was in an internment camp in arkansas with his family had this takeaway earlier today speaking with our thomas roberts.

>> what donald trump is talking about is something that's going to make his logo "america disgraced again." it's all over again. we don't know our history. and when we don't know that, then we don't learn the lesson from our history. you do all this research then smash it into a tree. your insurance company raises your rates. maybe you should've done more research on them. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. liberty mutual insurance.

by day, they must stay warm. challenges to the feet. but by night, beautiful, smoother and ready to impress the other party animals. dr. scholl's dreamwalk express pedi donald trump's controversial plan to block muslims from entering the country is drawing intense fire. it is clear, though, he is not backing down. trump is now using an ugly part of american history to argue his point. >> you're increasingly being compared to hitler. does that give you any pause at all? >> no, because what i'm doing is

no different than what fdr. fdr's solution for germans, italians, japanese, you know, many -- >> so you're for internment camps? >> this is a president who was highly respected by all. he did the same thing. if you look at what he was doing, it was far worse. i mean, he was talking about the germ germans, because we're at war. we are now at war. >> during world war ii, the u.s. imprisoned more than 100,000 people of japanese ancestry in internment camps. it's not the only time we've seen people persecuted based on nationality or faith. when john f. kennedy ran for president, he was criticized for his catholic faith. an attack he faced head-on when delivering one of his most famous speeches to a group of protestant ministers in texas in 1960. >> i believe in an america where the separation of church and state is absolute and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act

against all. for while this year it may be a catholic against whom the finger of suspicion is pointed, in other years, it has been and may some day be again a jew or a quaker or a unitarian or a baptist. today, i may be the victim, but tomorrow it may be you. until the whole fabric of our harmonious society is ripped apart at a time of great national peril. >> so what is it like to be a muslim american today? joining me now, a writer and fellow at the institute for social policy and understanding and marwah ball karr, whose social media post and response to some of trump's earlier comments quickly went viral. nice to have both of you with us. we spoke a couple of weeks ago in the wake of the paris attacks about the impact of the muslim american community here in the united states. have things changed in the last

24 hours. do you feel like you are looked at differently? >> absolutely. things have definitely changed. we are at a point now where we see where trump's logic is going and it shouldn't be surprising, but the fact he's saying these things openly is surprising. and after the events in san bernardino, there is a lot of fear and anxiety. but while trump talks about islam, he's not only talking about islam. there's anti-latino bigotry, there's anti-black racism, anti-everything racism. he's going after every community. in one way, we do feel singled out and scared, but in another way, we feel this is a larger phenomenon that involves every american who are being targeted if we are the least bit different from what trump and his base holds up as ideal. >> marwah, one of the things that stuck out to me, if you look at me, you don't realize i'm a muslim american. which is an important point, because just like christians, muslim americans come in all different packages. what was the overwhelming

response to your post? >> the overwhelming response was all positive. and what struck me hard was it was on an international level. it wasn't just american networks from all over -- from all the states. i was getting calls from south america and bosnia and uk and i think that's what sos mind boggling to me, is that it's not just americans that are having this view of donald trump, it's the whole world. >> so if it's not just the view here, the issue then comes down to, what does this miscommunication, this misrepresentation come from, haroom and how do you combat it? >> there was a guy named terry jones what wanted to burn the koran. in the muslim world, he was trev24/7 on the news. but trump is dominating our news now here, which means that over in the muslim world, he's completely shaping perceptions of america in a very negative direction. so the country who elected

barack hussein obama is now seriously thinking about donald trump. and it's interesting a few hours ago the largest retail group in the middle east based in dubai announced he was dumping his product line from their stores. he's all about how he's going to keep us safe and build a coalition against isis. if this man gets elected, he'll find that everyone in the world fears and resents him and hates him. he's tanking the american brand at a time we need people on our side to keep everyone safe. >> faith and fear comes up a lot. marwa, has there ever been a time where you feel unsafe? >> i feel unsafe all the time. when i first made my post, i got a lot of positive feedback, but after trump started attacking muslims more often, i started getting really, really hateful messages that would make your skin crawl. and it's terrifying. and i can't even speak -- i can't even say that i'm scared, because i don't wear a hijab. i can't imagine what a woman in america who wears a hijab. i know women that wear hijabs are too afraid to leave their house and have left their house

and have been threatened and have had people tried to attack them by pulling their scarves off. and that's ridiculous. >> we've talked about how you can change things. but at the end of the day, there is this major misconception in this country about what it means to be a muslim. haroom, what do you think the biggest misconception is about the muslim faith? >> that we're americans. and we had this long conversation about whether thousands and thousands of muslims are celebrating on 9/11, which i think completely missed the point. obviously, donald trump was lying. and some muslims were celebrating, because muslims attacked us on 9/11. but we go from there that since one muslim feels one way, all muslims must feel the same way. so there's the sense that because we're muslim, we're suspect, we hate america, when in fact the opposite is true. we have incredibly higher voter participation rates, mosques are engines of civic participation, people love this country, and one of the best ways we respond

to this, honestly, is through humor. we try to smile about it and laugh about it and joke, well, would president obama's grandmother be allowed in under donald trump's new muslim entry policy? because sometimes the way you can relate to people is by pointing things out in a way that shows is we're human. and sometimes that gets missed in the conversation. >> in terms of maybe putting everyone into one category, one thing that's come out, donald trump talking about this morning on "morning joe," that more muslims need to speak up against extremists in this country and the president said the same thing. is there also a misconception that just because you're a muslim, you're automatically going to know the extremists. >> there was a mosque in manassas, virginia, that got death threats after the san bernardino attack. and it's a shia muslim mosque. isis is waging a genocide dal campaign against shia muslims. and here they are in northern virginia and they're getting a call, being blamed for isis. so there is this sense that we all get framed as this one thing, when we have not only been condemning terrorism, but doing active, positive things

against extremist rhetoric. just an example in the last 90 hours, $90,000 was raised by the american muslim community for the victims of the san bernardino attacks. it's things like that that we're doing to try to change the narrative and to offer something positive in place of the negative. >> marwa, you're a young student. are you hopeful that things will change, not just in your lifetime, but in the near future? >> i'm very hopeful. this is not what america is about, this discrimination and hate is not what we should be representing at all. and i feel like the future generations should open their eyes more and open their hearts more and get to know people for who they are and later find out what they represent through their religion and things like that. >> marwa, that haroon, nice to have you both with us. still to come, harsh words from a donald trump former supporter. also, how to win the war against isis. politicians now calling for silicon valley to join the fight. is that even possible?

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as you've been hearing, donald trump's comments about muslims have been widely criticized by both democrats and republicans. a former supporter is no longer a fan telling msnbc news, quote, i made a mistake in my supporting mr. trump. he is creating a hatred between muslims and united states of america. we're joined now by olivia stearns, msnbc business and technology correspondent. nice to see you. >> nice to see you. >> give me a sense, how much is donald trump's business tied to muslims? >> you cannot be a major player in the global real estate business if you don't have strong ties and strong relationships with the key players from the middle east. and that's what he has. he has many muslim business partners in the region. he has many projects, many properties, billions of dollars of real estate with "trump" blasts across them. and that's why he was so

hesitant to criticize the saudis when he was on "morning joe" this morning. have a listen. >> you're running for president, are you talking about the saudis? >> joe, other countries are giving massive amounts of money -- >> wait, wait, so who? >> -- are giving massive amounts of money. >> are you saying the saudis are doing this? >> of course they're doing it. everybody knows that. >> any other countries? >> they are, but i'm not going to say it, because i have a lot of relationships with people. but there are. >> very clearly, "i have a lot of relationships with people." >> let's start with the saudis. prince ali, the well-known businessman, he has done deals with him, he helped bail trump out his hotel that went sour. he has deals with the qataris that are widely known for providing cover for hamas. he has many, many projects in the works or already up in the emirates. he was just in dubai earlier this year with his daughter, ivanka. he has several billion dollars at stake there. and he said that's an area that

he really wants to expand in. >> has there been, though, much fallout, as we read an article today, one businessman said, i just keep these things separate. i agree with what he said, but this is business, so it's different. >> so the owner of the golf course he's working on right now in dubai actually came out and stressed the fact that their agreement is with the trump organization. is it not with donald trump, the presidential candidate. so they are sort of saying they're not going to cut ties with him. but the head of landmark, the retail partner that they have in dubai that carries the trump home line, they actually came out this afternoon skpad, quote, in light of the recent statements made by the presidential candidate in the u.s. media, we have suspended sale of awe products from the trump home decor range. that is according to the ceo of lifestyle. if you look back at what happened after trump's very controversial comments about mexicans, that hurt his business relationship with macy's and univigs. so here is landmark coming out, obviously, it's early, but plenty of potential for more fallout. >> olivia stearns, nice to see

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we have to see go see bill gates and a lot of different people to understand what's happening. we have to talk to them closing that internet up. some people will say, freedom of speech, freedom of speech. these are foolish people. we've got too maybe do something with the internet, because they are recruiting by the thousands >> that might sound extreme, but trump's comments are similar to what we've heard from a number of lawmakers. some going as far as calling on the companies who created some of this technology to step up.

>> we're going to have to have more support from our friends in the technology world to deny online space. just as we have to destroy their would-be caliphate, we have to deny them online space. if we truly are in a war against terrorism and we are truly looking for ways to shut off their funding, shut off the flow of foreign fighters, we've got to shut off their means of communicating. >> let's turn now to msnbc discovery desk editor cal perry and leaf alkori. nice to have both of you with us. bottom line, not to be debby downer, but when you look at this, how realistic are these pleas that we're hearing from politicians? >> not very realistic. the federal government has been working with these sites, twitter and facebook, and they've been requesting information, and those requests have gone up. let me just give you very brief statistics. facebook has seen an increase of

53% on federal requests for in just the past two years. twitter has seen an increase of 170% from the federal government looking at some of these users, and we've got the information there on the screen. one of the things that donald trump doesn't talk about. we have heard hillary talk about this as well, and i would be really interested to hear leaf's thoughts, they stress the importance of leaving some of these accounts up. if you know in account, if you've identified it, if you've flagged it, you can trace it and find out who's being followed. >> that is important, to your point. because it's a matter of not just figuring out who the accounts are, but how to use the information. >> most definitely. intelligence is absolutely key. that's why we're talking about technology in the first place. if government wants to stop terrorists from spreading propaganda and recruiting individuals online, you can't just shout down these areas. how are we going to eavesdrop or conduct surveillance and monitoring? it's absolutely key. but we have seen cases where the government was able to eavesdrop

on individuals who are communicating online, and use that as, you know, kind of lead to establish cases against them. so it's absolutely unrealistic, what mr. trump was saying. >> unrealistic. and also, you touched on this, cal, but very difficult to do in general. you look at the technology that's been created. this is not a technology, especially in the u.s., that adheres to real regulation. and if you're bringing in what happens in other countries, sure, in some parts of europe, things you put up can be taken down or flagged as hate speech, but that doesn't happen here. so it brings in the point, how do you work with other countries and their regulations? >> and how do you do it in the edward snowden hangover time period we're kind of living in right now. you have companies around the world, one in particular in the united kingdom, telegram, which is designed for private messaging. it is designed to keep away from these government eavesdropping mechanics. and that's something that is needed in the market place. that's something that consumers want to have, is that line of communication that they know is not going to be touched.

so you're running into business here, as well. and it's not going to be as simple as open up. >> so realistically, there are a lot of things that can't be done. but there are still things that can be done. laith, what are some of the solutions you can bring the tech companies in on. >> i think cal mentioned this briefly, these encryption programs that are very hard to eavesdrop and conduct surveillance on, but terrorists are not necessarily just capitalizing on that one space. if we're missing on 5% of that activity, we have 95% of the activities taking place openly on social media, facebook, google and so on. so working hand in hand with these companies, by the way, who have been launching a very secretive war already, suspending thousands of accounts every week. what we feed to keep doing is keep up with the new platforms that are being used every day. and isis and its supporters are looking for new platforms every day, as they are getting suspended on twitter. >> how much are they creating on their own? we have talking about this. we've heard about this.

isis help desk, a few weeks ago. how much are terrorists now recruiting tech-savvy converts to help create something for themselves? >> we're seeing gradual increase in that. we're not seeing explicit calls to, let's say, hire hackers or something to that effect, but we're seeing tech-savvy individuals, many coming from western europe, to join isis on the ground, who are establishing platforms where they can post them, like message boards, for example. these are anonymous, simple text message boards where they can post their propaganda, and they are uploaded on servers that are not in the jurisdiction of the united states. so, in certain cases, we can do something. in certain cases, we can't, we might have to have a third party that we're not directly reaching out to, like anonymous has been reaching its own campaign against isis, and we're seeing some of the fruits of that. >> there's also been a lot of talk, and there was even an article this morning in "the new york times" about how isis and terror groups actually look at these calls for more help and twitter accounts being taken down as almost a, you know,

almost a challenge in some ways. and they sort of laugh in the face of these efforts. >> and a lot of this is viewed a as a badge of honor on their part, especially on these twitter accounts. and a lot of this is noise. there are over 950 million right now twitter accounts around the world. so isis can flood it with just noise and you don't really know what it is you're listening to. especially on the twitter accounts. we've heard from u.s. officials that have told us, when a twitter account is taken down, that person just creates three more and they'll start by saying, my last account was taken down. it's a badge of honor for me. you can listen to this account. >> is it important to talk about the wins? should the united states, should the global community be more vocal in talking about the quote/unquote wins in the war on terror, especially in this space? >> you know, i think they could be boasting about some of the wins, as long as they're not giving leads to some terror groups and giving them heads up. so if they are going in the back doors of some of the deep and dark web environments where some of those terrorists are

congregating, it is absolutely necessary not to disclose that information, before they shut it down or open something else, but i think in the grand scheme of things, the government needs to show the people that they are doing something about this. and that they are taking actual steps, practical steps, in not only shutting down certain accounts, but also actually having intelligence gleaned from those accounts, that would help them in certain investigations, in certain locations for isil on the ground, and so on and so forth. >> central command gave a press conference, i think it was about a month ago, they were talking to reporters, this was central command down in florida, they said they're going to start targeting the social media folks inside isis and they told the media, we'll let you know how we're doing in a few months. >> on purpose. nice to have both of you with us. appreciate the insight. thanks. still ahead, hillary clinton set to take the stage any minute now in new hampshire. what will she say about donald trump's suggestion to ban all

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other radical jihadists, donald trump is playing right into their hands. and some of his republican candidates are saying that his latest comments have gone too far. but the truth is, many of them have also said extreme things about muslims. their language may be more veiled than trump's, but their ideas are not so different. they are all driving the exact narrative that jihadists want to advance. that we are at war, not with barberist, violent murderers, but with an entire religion. this is a grave mistake. i know very well that the fight against these radical jihadists is one we must win. it is a fight against a brutal

enemy who twists religion, twists islam to justify mass murder. they must be defeated. but in order to accomplish that goal, we have to work with muslims, in our country and around the world. and -- >> hillary clinton speaking there in salem, new hampshire, calling recent comments by donald trump to ban muslims from entering the united states a shameless, dangerous idea and saying americans at this time should be doing everything possible to defeat isis. noting, in her estimation, donald trump is playing right into isis' hands. we will have more as we continue our coverage here on "msnbc live." stay with us. ♪ [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ [ birds squawking ]

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she called it a mistake to say we're at war with a religion instead of saying we're at war with violent jihadists. joining me now, nbc's kelly o'donnell who was in baltimore today, where bernie sanders was speaking and weighing in. kelly, nice to see you. >> always good to be with you, erica. for bernie sanders today, this is not something he was anxious to talk about. he was meeting with faith and civic leaders in baltimore at a time when there has been so much tension and division in that community and the trial related to the death of freddie gray is also going on. so bernie sanders talked about sort of the connection, in a way, of how divisions within the country can be so harmful. and he sort of took on donald trump saying that it is trump who believes kind of highlighting those divisions, and enlarging them is a way to win elections. but in his news conference, he really wanted to focus on more of the agenda that he had, talking about income inequality, job problems in that area, certainly some of the law

enforcement issues that have been going on. but for democrats, erica, as you alluded to, hillary clinton's comments, this is sort of an open season to go against donald trump, to be able to highlight what they believe are not just inflammatory, but unconstitutional and unproductive comments from donald trump related to barring muslims from entering the u.s. for democrats, it's good politics. for republicans, it's much more of a challenge. there isn't much upside for other republican candidates to go after trump, not wanting to alienate his voters and really voters don't often give points to those who call out someone else for sounding reasonable. and so it's really a challenge politically. and trump keeps delivering with new iterations of some of his outrageous comments and some of his ideas that tap into the fear people have, and at the same time, seem to alter even just a bit each day, sort of the sand of this electoral season beneath our feet. erica? >> it is amazing the way it alters a conversation, as you point out, almost on a daily

basis. i think we have a little bit of sound from bernie sanders earlier today. let's take a quick listen. >> the only way you win elections is by dividing people up. you divide white from black, gay from straight, man from woman, people born in america from people coming into america. that's how you win elections. and trump is the casebook example of what that is about. that's how we think we should win elections. i don't think we do that. i think we do the exact opposite. we bring people together. >> so those comments there, what you were alluding to as well, kelly, that he was speaking about earlier today. >> yes. and that was a jumping off point for bernie sanders to talk about the things that matter to him. and it is sort of unusual for sanders, and many of the other candidates, to speak of trump by name. generally, they like the attention on themselves and they want to try to direct our attention to what they want to talk about, but this is another way that trump has so affected the wider field, that he says things that sort of demand a

response and some of the leaders are better able than others to work it into the their own message. >> and so it continues until 2016. kelly o'donnell, nice to see you. >> thanks for joining us on "msnbc live." "hardball" starts right now. donny brook. let's play "hardball" #. good evening, i'm chris matthews up in new york. and rarely has the american political wliestablishment, sucs it is, sing in such a chorus as they did today. from left to fairly hard right, the word was out that this time donald trump has broken his pick. the call to slam the american door on muslims, slam it shut, has struck us an