you name it. i'm going to transform the way the world works. (proudly) i programmed that hat. and i can do casaba melons. i'll be helping turbines power cities. i put a turbine on a cat. (friends ooh and ahh) i can make hospitals run more efficiently... this isn't a competition! jeb said when they come across the southern boarder they come in an act of love. you're trying to build up your energy, jeb but it's not working. >> this is a tough business. >> you're a tough guy, jeb. real tough. >> you're never going to be

president of the united states by insulting your way to the presidency. >> i'm 42 and you're 3. >> yes, we would shoot down the planes of russian pilots if they're stupid enough to think that this president is the same weak link we have in the oval office now. >> when you think about the judgment of the someone who wants world war iii you might want to think about someone who might wage war. >> not first term senators who have not made an executive decision in their life. >> if i'm elected president, we will secure the boarder, we will triple the boarder patrol. we'll build a wall that works and i'll get donald trump to pay for it. i'll build it. >> we will not say that.

good morning everybody. it's wednesday, december 16th. welcome to morning joe. >> what do you think? >> lindsey graham won the debate. i'm with you. >> lindsey graham was fantastic. >> mike barnical with us. former communication's director nicole wallace. >> i loved watching rubio defend a world view that's been beaten up and kicked around. i think he got attacked more and had to defend. i liked his performance and i adore lindsey graham. i think the apology at the very beginning did a lot of good for the republican party. >> he was incredible. >> i thought jeb bush was really good. best performance but too late. chris christie again excellent in another debate and donald trump has to be the winner because nobody laid a glove on him and he's up 25 points. >> i started thinking after the debate this was an inside deal.

you have trump and cruz kind of hitting each other but they're locked in first and second place. everybody else is a distance third. notice everybody on the stage was attacking everybody but the top two guys. trump goes after jeb. cruz goes after rubio. they refuse to touch each other. it's an inside deal. if this maintains the status quo neither jeb or rubio catches them. it's a smart political move. they made it. they made a direct or indirect deal. we don't touch each other and draw no blood. >> nobody else touched trump either except jeb bush who went after him relatively effectively

sometimes. i was wondering marco getting hit by all sides, rand paul going after him, cruz going after him. they fear him as the establishments best choice. why didn't he go after him. >> there's strong performances we'll go through. lindsey graham had incredible moments and made unbelievably good sense and showed emotion and told his fellow republicans to just stop on some of the things happening within the party. in las vegas this morning managing editor of bloomberg politics. mark halperin is with us. >> it seems like there was a deal directly or indirectly with cruz. we shoot outside the building. we don't shoot at each other and maintain the status quo where we're easily first and second place. >> i asked trump after the

debate if he would change his posture toward cruz and he said maybe down the road. everybody else i think asks the question. with the exception of jeb bush and chris christie are they comfortable with the projecture that they can't be stopped and there's a two man race between them. you got to ask that question about rubio first and foremost. rand paul plays a good roll. rubio will be and trump will be which is good enough. that's a gentleman's whoever. he might as well be an a. carly b minus and kasich b minus

and carson c. let's talk about marco rubio. he turned in a better performance. what's maddening to me is when he sounds like an sga candidate. last night he was attacked and i thought he did very well as did nicole. punched back very well. but the dynamics are horrible for him. at this stage of the debate, one and two are locked in and he's getting it from all sides. from the first time he was on the defense and this is the time was it not where he needed to really be going after trump.

>> he's going after cruz. he dropped his optimism talking about the future of america in a very afflicting way. that's most appealing about him. another reason i gave him the lower grade, until he shows he can take on trump, it doesn't have to be personal, until he can say to the party this is not the right direction for us. i still don't see his path winning his state. fighting with cruz takes him off the rhetoric. >> we are now at a time where we need more tools, not less tools. that tool we lost was a valuable tool we no longer have at our

disposal. >> marco knows that's not true. what he knows is the old program covers nearly a hundred percent. that gives us greater ability to stop acts of terrorism. >> there is nothing we are allowed to do under this bill we could not do before. this bill did, however, take away a valuable tool that allowed the national security agency to quickly and rapidly access phone records and match them up with other phone records to see who terrorist have been calling. i promise you next time there's an attack on this country first thing people are going to want to know is why didn't we know about it and why didn't we stop it? after ten years of the status, i am open to allow people to apply for a green card but that's down the road. >> there was a time for choosing as reagan put it where there was a battle over amnesty and some chose like rubio to stand with

barack obama and support a massive amnesty plan. >> ted, you support legalizing people in this country illegally. ted cruz supported a 5% increase and supports doubling the number of green cards. >> i understand marco wants to raise confusion. it is not accurate i supported legalization. i led the fight against his legalization and amnesty bill. there was one commentator to put it this way. for marco to suggest our records the same is like suggesting the fireman and arsonist have the same record. he was fighting to grant amnesty and not secure the boarder and i was fighting to secure the boarder. >> does ted cruz rule out legalization? >> i do not support

legalization. >> marco had good points there and ted cruz is good at moving away from past positions. we've seen it. he's moving away from these two issues. i'm on marco's side of things. ted is talking in circles there. that said, i thought the candidate that was in the most vulnerable position because of the party we are in 2015 was marco rubio december pate the fact what he was saying was true, marco is vulnerable because he got out front working with them. he'll never be fore given by that. >> the problem with cruz's position here, it was taken at a time when he was trying to appeal to rand paul. bret steven's yesterday had a devastating piece. the explanation of cruz's patch

work of policies, every turn he was trying. >> he's a great debater. i think having a position that may be unpoplar with elements of the base, if you can endure it with the primary is a much stronger place for our party to be in. ste certainly, rubio will have the support and the roaring voices from entail agree with rubio. >> most americans are going to be on rubio's side. i certainly am on this nsa divide with cruz and also rand pa paul. on the immigration side what he did early on. >> that was a significant moment too. he played the roll of journalist and pinned down cruz on the question of whether or not he would get to a path of citizenship. he's left the door open. >> right.

so squirmy. >> there's no doubt rubio won the debate. no doubt for republicans who vote in primaries rubio did not win that debate. also trying to survive is jeb bush. take a look. >> donald is great at the one liners. he's a chaos candidate. he would be a chaos president. >> jeb doesn't belief i'm unhinged. he says that because he's failed in this campaign. it's been a total disaster.

nobody cares. >> donald, you're not going to be able to insult your way to the presidency. that's not going to happen and i do have the strength. i know what i don't know. i would seek out the best advice that exist. i won't get my information from the shows. i don't know if that's saturday morning or sunday morning. i don't know which one. >> i think it's very sad that cnn leads jeb bush, governor bush down a road by starting off virtually all of the questions mr. trump this. i think it's very sad. >> look, the simple fact is if you think this is tough and you're not treated fairly, imagine what it's going to be like dealing the putin or islamic terrorism that exist. this is a tough business to run for president. >> you're a tough guy, jeb. real tough. >> you're never going to be

president of the united states by inadusulting your way to the presidency. >> you're moving further and further over. >> i thought jeb did well. and i must say on all those comments that he made all donald gave were personal insults. >> again, for the primary voters donald trump did well and jeb bush a little late to use some of the words before the show. >> it was his best night. it was interesting. for the first time he managed to get under donald's skin clearly. >> but at this point it allows donald to do what he does. i think jeb is finding his voice. certainly did last night.

maybe too little too late. who knows. >> if you're a donald trump fan you loved all this. >> what you're attracted to, i know a little bit about the trump supporter. what you're attracted to is his strength. what jeb did was project strength. i think when these guys start figuring out that the secret ingredient isn't trump, it's his strength we've all said it, it's too late. it's to project strength.

>> trump supporters like his strength and like the fact he's a winner. trump supporters were involved by that exchange and said he's after the 42% and you're at 40%. so i suspect that may have helped both candidates. but the question is where does jeb get his support from? he had a good night last night. where does he get voters from at this point? >> the strengths by trump, it was undented last night. how does any of the candidates show they're as strong as trump? part of why cruz is doing well is because he's coming across as

strong. trump is the one likely to get to the finals. >> let me ask you. you were talking about this last night. i know marco had a good night as far as his performance. it was less maddening for me. you can tell he practiced in front of the mirror for 30 minutes. he was really good on his feet. he needs to be in settings where he's on his feet more and not saying the same speech over and over again. he did really well. just strategically, the fact he's using the debates to get up four or five or six points, i don't see this one my favorite marco performance.

how do you feel about where marco is standing? >> he's not going to raise a ton of money. he's not going to spend his way to victory. i think he's going to continue to do what he's been doing. wait for the campaign to come to him. be the likable guy, the guy whose not a bush, the guy whose not a north eastern moderate, the guy ready to be president. he's waiting for it to come to him. >> this debate did nothing to

change the republican establishment at the top. >> we have so much to get to. moments to get to including ones from chris christie and lindsey graham who didn't have to speak to get his points across. also ahead, he was amazing. amazing moments that really brought clarity and actually gave me hope. >> he should be on the stage. >> they all join us along with the chairman. >> okay. revis is joining us. >> we need to talk to him. some of these people need to go.

>> it's enough. some campaigns need to call it in. they're ruining the party. they're ruining this race. >> my personal friend bruce spri springstein. >> some of these people need to go. >> somebody tweeted last night. it was a great idea. take two people from the main stage and put them in the early cards so you get six there and seven on the main stage and we've got a great debate. do we have one more debate? >> let's do that for the last one. >> plus we're going to hear from hillary clinton who outlines her own plan to take on the islamic state. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. and can you explain why you recommend synthetic over cedar? "super food?" is that a real thing? it's a great school, but is it the right one for her? is this really any better than the one you got last year?

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now to the so-called undercard debate. >> i think the attacks on barack

obama were just slightly muted. they would have been much, much worse if he hadn't had this press conference. i think you'll agree we've been harshly critical of the president. that pentagon briefing actually changed the tone of the debate. we had commander in chief. >> because he changed his tone. >> he changed his tone and sounded like president hollonde saying we've got to beat them. i know the president doesn't like things like that, but it matters in times like these. he got it. i think the debate was a tad bit more muted. >> it's hard to go into a tank briefing at the pentagon and not come out feeling em bolded by the strength and intelligence of your commanders. they see operations and hear from their generals and i think

what he came out and articulated gave a lot of people reassurance. >> talk military and that's what he did. there's a debate on refugees. let's talk about how we beat isis over there. >> we have heard about guns but nothing happened. >> nick had an amazing column. think about this on guns. more people died in america by guns in 2012 than all americans who died in the korean war, vietnam war and iraq war. let me say that again. more americans were shot to death and killed in the streets of america and in the homes of america than all americans who

died in the korean war, the vietnam war and the iraq war. and afghanistan. think about the movies, the tv shows, the books. think about the documentaries that we have all had on those wars. you could not fill this room. you could fill this room 10 times over but yet more americans died in 2012. and because of a small subset. they decide they want to look at an amendment and a view that the supreme court says is unconstitutional. still has this going on year after year of year. last four years. 2012. >> it's still staggering and it's also at this point i do

understand why other addresses pertaining to terrorism, the president does con flat the two. we have if you look at san bernardino, the two issues are perfectly aligned afrightening. >> that's fine when he checks off the box on how we're going to kill them and they're next and beat them militarily. show us that, he did. check that off and then he can talk about other things. he did that at the pentagon. >> yes, we do. now i'm going to move on to the undercard debate which is going to undermine what you just said. rick sanatorium declared we've entered world war iii while senator lindsey graham took on their approaches to the islam ek state. >> donald trump has done the one single thing you cannot do. declare war on islam itself. isil would be dancing in the

streets. they believe be dancing. this is a cue to them. a i am sorry. he does not represent us. there's at least 3,500 muslims serving in the armed forces. thank you for your service. you are not the enemy. your religion is not the enemy. i was in the second presidential election in afghanistan. the guy guarding me was an american sergeant who grew up and left when graduated high school and joined the u.s. arm m and went back to high school and people voting and took me there and cried like a baby. i cried like a baby. he is the solution to the problem, not the problem.

leave the faith alone. go after the radicals that kill us all. i've been working for a decade to figure out how to win this war. to my good friend ted cruz. please ask him the following question. you say you'll keep isad in power. that's the worst possible thing that could come out of an american leader's mouth. his favorite movie is apparently princess bride. getting in bed with iran and russia to save isad is inconceivable. >> let me ask you. >> princess buttercup would not like this. i would like to stop sending $3 $350 billion or overseas to buy oil from people who hate our guts, wouldn't you. wouldn't you like to export natural gas to cut putin's legs out from under him. i'm not afraid of a guy riding around on a horse without a

shirt. mike, the serge worked. george w. bush made mistakes but he did adjust. i blame obama for isil. not bush. i miss george w. bush. i wish you were president right now. we wouldn't be in this mess. >> i tell you what, his statements, mike, look at his facial expressions by the way. >> i have this put together because i feel a connection with lindsey graham. >> mika actually said where has he been all my life? >> some of his best moments are without rhetoric. >> look at him. >> i'm telling you i feel a connection. >> great stuff. >> you should feel a connection because he rolls his eyes instead of saying anything sometimes. >> he learned from a master.

he must be watching morning joe. >> can i say i wish president obama would consider at some point giving him the presidential medal of freedom or honor or something despite him being rough on the president. what a great, great public service. i'm dead serious lindsey graham perfo performed on behalf of the leaders. he set a story about the american muslims who put their life on the ground for our freedom. >> lindsey graham's performance was an antidote to a lot of rhetoric. at one point in that under card debate, because lindsey graham was there, it's no longer in my mind an undercard debate. there was an attempt made by

rick sanatorium to redefine a world religion, islam. thank god for lindsey graham. >> he sounded like george bush after 9/11. mark, sum up the debate for us. what are the dynamics moving forward now after vegas? >> whatever happens with lindsey graham, he established himself as an american original. when you said status quo, someone needs to stop donald trump. jeb bush tried, marco rubio didn't. come february, who else is in this game and there's a number of people last night who laid down their attitude or strategy. bush and christie had another

path. >> bush and rubio we said were obviously going to jump. other debates we said carly was going to go up in the poll. i can't think of anybody whose going to jump from last night's polls and going into a christmas break dead zone, we may see a race frozen over the next few weeks. who takes the debate? >> i think trump might move up a little bit. it might actually increase his strength number a little. i don't think anybody stopped his momentum. he's the candidate in iowa and also in the scc states. >> mika, stylistically, trump was better than any debate.

>> i think he had two halves. the first half he was strong and effective. the second half when jeb bush got under his skin he didn't do as well. >> i think how people react to donald trump. >> i think he's terrible. i don't think it matters. he's a terrible debater. he got off the debate stage where he didn't show any courage and then he got on twitter and unloaded a rampage. >> we're talking about -- he immediately went to cnn who had 20 million, 35 million, however many and stood there alone for five or six minutes and he framed the entire debate by himself while the other 14 candidates were going to get

aburg at hard rock and i just set there going my god, he has just defined the last two hours and willie, i think if anybody goes up in the polls, it's donald trump. >> a different reaction, if it's august or other debates, if he didn't know what the nuclear triad was, when they asked him he would say that's disqualified. it's not only not disqualified but may help him because of the way he stands up and supporters rally around him. it's hard to see what hurts donald trump going right up to iowa at this point. >> again, you say he was terrible. i think. >> as a debater. >> i think he was actually better last night stylistically than he's been the entire time.

>> he's a marketing genius. >>. >> middle of december, it looks like you may be a step closer to getting your trump. >> yeah. >> your trump truck. >> i feel bad for you. >> i don't think so. >> lindsey was pretty remarkable yesterday. he's going to be our guest. still to come, we're going to bring in casey hunt from las vegas. she talked to donald trump and lindsey graham last night. great reporting from casey. we shall return.

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40 past the hour. joining us is casey hunt. casey has been talking to the candidates. >> she caught up with senator lindsey graham. what did you hear from the senator that actually owned the first debate. he owned it. >> lindsey graham was more aggressive than the debate stage. he made the case pretty

aggressively. he said all the candidates should be out and he should be allowed to stand on the main take with everyone else. take a listen what he said to me about ted cruz and also about donald trump. >> i think that senator cruz will not sell to a wider audience. he wants to shut down the government every two weeks for a different reason. i hope the nominee of the party will understand we need to fix immigration. >> do you think that senator cruz would actually win fewer votes in the general election than donald trump? >> i don't know. that's a contest i don't want to see. i think ted cruz would have a hard time selling the republican party to the young peemt. he's shown an inability to work with anybody in the senate. in that regard, he's right. >> were you close to tears on the stage? >> yes, i've been to the refugee

camps. they're working their ass off over there to get us back in a better spot. some of these discussions are hurting the war effort. i've seen the sacrifice that comes from having to win the sport. i've spent time on the ground myself. i'm not a combat soldier but i've been around a lot of those in the fight and they want to win. >> pretty strong testimony there, joe, from lindsey graham. >> no doubt about it. you caught up with donald trump in the spin room. what did donald have to say? >> the second half of that lindsey graham on stage getting emotional had to do with muslims in particular wearing our country's uniform. he talked about that in some length with donald trump's proposal to ban nonamerican muslims from the country. i asked donald trump whether he believes muslim soldiers are actually patriots. >> lindsey graham has to say

that. he has zero. he has zero. i'm at 42 and he's at zero. so if i weren't zero, first of all, if i were zero, i wouldn't run. i would say let's give it up. he said i've been doing this for 10 years, the fight. it's not worked out. >> what do you say to the muslim members of our armed forces, are they patriots? >> look, i tell you we have a problem and it's a very serious problem and i brought the problem to the floor. >> what about these soldiers, people wearing our uniform? >> it's fine. i have great respect for them. i have many muslim friends and some of them have called me saying you've done us a great job with this. >> not a response there. >> yeah, not a hard question. that would be a simple question, of course, they're patriots.

people defending this country and putting their lives on the line every day. thank you for being with us. it looks cold out there. we ask you to return to the warm confines of a manhattan christmas where temperatures are safely in the 60s. come back to new york. >> i hope you're enjoying it. >> we are enjoying it. it's a very tropical vacation. >> thank you. we have much more on the debate. >> i was going to say how hard is it for donald? >> i bet it will be different. >> i think if you're putting yourself in harm's way you're a patriot. >> i've got to say what lindsey said. not only is it good if you're a muslim american fighting for this country, it's even better. that's even more of a commitment

to america. it's even harder for a muslim american to go fight a war against muslims. ahead jeb bush joins us live. first terror threats and schools stayed open on one and closed on the other. we'll look at why when morning joe continues. opportunity has no slow season. no off-days, or downtime. opportunity is everything you make of it. this winter, take advantage of our season's best offers on the latest generation of cadillacs. the 2016 cadillac srx. get this low-mileage lease from around $339 per month, or purchase with 0% apr financing.

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we heard you got a job as a developer!!!!! its official, i work for ge!! what? wow... yeah! okay... guys, i'll be writing a new language for machines so planes, trains, even hospitals can work better. oh! sorry, i was trying to put it away... got it on the cake. so you're going to work on a train? not on a train...on "trains"! you're not gonna develop stuff anymore? no i am... do you know what ge is? schools in los angeles will reopen this morning. more than 900 schools closed after the district received a threat mentioning explosives and weapons. preliminary investigations finds yesterday's threat was a hoax.

law enforcement closed the schools against critics. >> i think when parents make their determination about the decisions made today i would ask them to look at it this way. if you knew what the superintendent and school board knew at 5:30 this morning when the decision had to be made, would you have sent your child to school? every parent i asked said no, of course, not. i think that should be the test of all of us. do you treat my kids like they're your own. >> the resent san bern dean owe attack was the reason to close. they received a nearly identical threat in schools nearly yesterday. mayor de blasio and bill braton held a news conference dismissing the threat. >> there was nothing credible about the threat. it was so generic and outlandish

and posed to numerous school systems simultaneously. >> the language in the e-mail would lead us to believe this is not a jihadist issue. ala wasn't spelled with a capital a. i think the initiator, the instigator or a threat may be a homeland fan watching homeland episod episodes. it mirrors a lot of resent episodes on homeland. >> commissioner bratton did not openly say l.a. made a mistake here but by his actions and what he said we cannot shut our fear to give terrorist what they want.

>>. >> coming up, jeb bush joins us live from las vegas. he turned up the heat on front runner donald trump last night in what many are calling his best debate performance yet. >> it's funny once, now he's tough. we don't do it again. we'll be right back. this holiday i can count on someone's kid mistaking me for santa.

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wow. an inside deal. those two guys. >> smart. >> it's a total inside deal. we're in first and second. let's be nice to everybody. shoot out your side. i'll shoot out my side and. >> donald is cooperating. >> i don't think they talked about this. i think they both knew it. i don't think donald thinks, he just does. >> you attack marco because he's an established one great hope. i attack jeb. together we make sure it's you and me at the end. >> we'll discuss that coming up.

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has. president obama and hillary clinton are proposing bringing tens of thousands of syrian refugees to the country when the fbi has told them they cannot vet the refugees. i believe they're more narrowly focussed at the actual threat. >> so you're saying you disagree because he's too broad. why do you disagree with him? >> i'm reminded of what fdr's grandfather said. he said all horse thieves are democrats but not all democrats are no, sir thieves. >> does that answer your question? >> oh my god. >> no, it does not. they will not attack each other. are you believing this is an inside deal? >> i do believe it.

zblmpl it is a shrewd political move. i'm not knocking him. but they try to hold first and second place. >> ted cruz says everyone understands why donald trump made that. >> no, it was awful. >> self-protective alliance is basically the agreement we'll see each other in april. >> all right. as you can see, mike is with us and also joining the conversation from capitol hill senior political columnist for the national journal ron.

>> in a few minutes jeb bush will be on our show. >> this is not the most difficult. we are at a time we need more tools and not less tools. that was a valuable tool we no longer have. >> marco knows what he's saying is not true. what he knows is the old program covered 20-30% of phone numbers to search for terrorist. the new program covers 100%. that gives us a greater ability to stop acts of terrorism. >> there was nothing we were able to do under this bill we could not do before. this bill did take away a valuable tool that allowed the national security agency to quickly and rapidly access phone records and match them up with other phone records to see who terrorist have been calling. i promise you the next time there's an attack on the country, the first thing people want to know is why didn't we know about it and why didn't we stop it? >> the notion marco is

suggesting he's somehow tossed more than a few insults this direction, let's be absolutely clear. isis and radical islamic terrorism will face no more determined foe than i'll be. we'll utterly destroy them. one of the problems is he's far too often supported hillary clinton and barack obama undermining governments in the middle east that have helped radical islamic terrorist. we need to focus on killing the bad guys, not getting stuck in middle eastern civil wars. >> hillary clinton and barack obama's strategy is lead from behind. sounds like he's outlining to not lead at all. we must lead. we are the most powerful nation in the world. we need to begin to act like it again. >> ron, you had the top two candidates stay away from each other. ted cruz, marco rubio and rand

paul going after each other and jeb bush going after donald trump. a lot of interesting take aways. what were yours? >> i agree with you guys from the last hour the status quo holds here. the race probably didn't change much which is bad for the country and long term for the republican party. we had for the most part a field playing to people's fears and lindsey graham who was the one brave outlier standing up for and against the bigotry from the field. >> we have jeb bush. jeb, it's always great talking to you. most everybody we've talked to said you had your best debate performance last night. is it going to make a difference in this crazy political era? >> where do you take it from here? >> i can't assess all the

politics but i did think the debate was great. we got to talk about issues and the future of our country and how to keep your country safe and secure. it was a commander and chief debate in many ways. i don't know if the front running candidate feared that well in that context. you need a leader that can draw people together to create a strategy to keep us safe. his policies, what he's advocated won't do it. i was pleased to be able to point that out and we had some exchanges that i think i won. >> what was the most important exchange that showed your vision for how america is going to protect itself in donald trump's vision? >> well, the simple fact is he doesn't have a plan. he's not a serious candidate. he gets his news from the shows. which your show is really good. if he watched that more he might get a better incite on how to defend the country.

his policies aren't serious proposals. he didn't offer anything compelling in response to that. i offered proposals to protect the homeland. >> mika. >> at the same time you have this issue of winning the primary verses appealing to the country as a potential commander in chief. what do you do moving forward given the fact this is such a complicated conone drum for candidates like you you have a real message. we thought you were great last night but toss not necessarily your audience. >> there were a lot of republican voters too also encouraged by what you did last night. the question is, jeb, are there enough this year where reality tv seems to be the norm? >> well, look, two-thirds of the people in iowa in the latest poll that i saw say they could

change their mind. they're latched on to a particular candidate today but by february 1st when the cauc caucuses start they could vote for somebody else. similarly, in new hampshire the same thing takes place. this is a wide open race. these early states take pride in the fact they're first in the nation and take it seriously. if you go campaign hard in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, you can move the needle and that's exactly what i intend to do. i want to make the case i am ready from day one to be president of the united states and i will keep our country safe and i have the detailed policies to make sure that's the case. we didn't talk about ek comic policy last night but that's also an issue. you can't lay out saying everything's great. you have to give people a sense you can work with congress to fix a few complex things. as people get a sense of my determination to do that, i'm going to move up in the polls. >> good to have you up early with us in las vegas.

i think we agreed around this table you had perhaps one of the best nights last night. you look at the polls and the numbers are consumed with ted cruz and trump and marco rubio as well. have you been surprised some of your supporters have been given your experience you haven't faired better than you have state by state and in national polls? >> willie, i don't follow all the here back and forth as it relates to the process. i was excited last night, i don't think a single processed question was asked. >> wasn't that great. >> when we get to policy, people begin to realize that this is a serious undertaking to elect the president of the united states that we're talking about someone who has to lead this country. we've had seven years of devicive presidency where nothing has gotten done and we need to have someone who has proven leadership skills to fix

a few things and i believe i'm that guy. >> governor, how do you get some of the elements of your party away from a rhetorical emphasis, a really rhetorical emphasis on elements of fear, safety, islam, the religion itself and present a more stable form of leadership and win by doing it. how do you do that or can you do it? >> i think it's essential that we do it. in fact, i think the debate pointed out the fallacy of trying to make these blanket kind of statements. donald trump, if his proposal of banning all muslims actually was implemented, it would be damaging to the national security of our country. put aside all of the emotional side of it which i think is important as well. but the principle thing is it would be harder to build a coalition in being successful in beating isis.

how do you tell the kurds we'll arm you and support you but you can't come to our country. how do you tell the jordanians or saudis or turks or egyptians we want you on our team. you have to be part of this for us to be successful but you can't come to our country. it's nonsense. it's from a national security point of view that i disagree with trump on this. >> you can fight and die for a cause that matters most to us right now and send your sons and daughters off to die in iraq and syria. you just can't bring your family here if they have a medical emergency. >> people, look, i think americans are when they hear the other side of the story, we're a caring country. we still are that way. i just reject out of hand that

our party is a party of fear. in my town hall meetings they want to hear safety but they want their hopes lifted up. the idea you can pray on people's fears is not who we are as a nation or party. >> amen, brother. jeb bush as always. thank you so much. we greatly appreciate you getting up early for us. >> you bet. >> ron, there's another voice of the republican party right there. a lot of people i know scratching their heads. >> i'll just say it. a lot of democrats were scratching their heads in 2008. hillary has been there and been there as the united states senator. she knows washington better than

anything. why get this newcomer that has none of the experience? now there are a lot of republicans saying the same thing. we get a guy that ran one of the largest states in america and one of the most effective governors rated year and year out. he was a rock rib hard core fiscal conservative first to take on teacher's unions in the nation and fight for education reform with vouchers verses these people making a lot of noise on the far right. >> any other year he would be in a better position. i think he showed yesterday how he can be the adult in the room and show the rest of the party and the other party how you

handle a bully and get underneath donald trump's skin. that's going at his securities and calling him out. he really put trump on his heels yesterday. i thought it was a darn good performance. >> we agree jeb bush had a good nigh night. governor chris christie had a good night. he highlighted his experience as a former federal prosecutor. >> we would shoot do. >> i think if you're in favor of world war iii you have your candidate. we might think about someone who might shut down a bridge because they don't like their friends. they want to get a democrat.

i think we need to be very careful. >> i tell you what wreckless is. wreckless is calling isad a reformer. what wreckless is is allowing russia to come in. inviting russia into syria to team with iran. that is wreckless and the wreckless people are the folks in the white house right now. barack obama and hillary clinton are the wreckless people and if you think a no fly zone is a wreckless policy, you're open to your opinion. how is it working so far? it's not working. we need to try something else and that's not wreckless. >> you sit up here and listen to this stuff and think so many of these people have had so much to do. they talk like bystander chss.

>> boy, he's good, willie. >> he always is in a debate. >> john, i shutter to think what you've been doing in las vegas. >> look at him. it's not good. >> it's written all over your face. what did you think of the debate? >> look at his eyes. he can't recall. look at those eyes. >> they're dead. >> were you there? >> living on vitamin c. >> thank you all for the scoring, mocking and ridicule. i appreciate that from here. it was very cold middle of the night in las vegas. what's the question, willie? >> the question is, you saw some of the debate last night. who did well, john. work with me here.

>> everyone talking about the status quo. despite all expectations of the contrary, the real action ended up being marco rubio on ted cruz. i thought on the policy, on the politics they fought each other to a draw. what i thought was most interesting is it seems to me it's a huge preview of what we're likely to see over the next month and a half. there are strategic questions about why marco and ted cruz think it's in their interest to go after each other. if they continue going after each other in this way, does that create a circumstance in which donald trump is likely to skate through. the two most anti trumps continue to beat each other up. is that not the best news in the world for donald? >> it's like a nascar race. you have someone blocking the guy in second blas place to make

the guy in front wins the race. in this case marco rubio has got to be veryfrustrating. the dynamics are tough for him. when he's trying to catch up to a guy whose 30 points ahead in national polls but the guy in second place the pounding on him nonstop and landing effective blows on immigration even if ted is running away from his own past on immigration. >> yeah. i think he's an interesting question. >> they're trying to see why he's spending so much time being

focussed on ted cruz right now. rather than the broken up establishment vote on to the huge vote in the republican race. that leaves open space for your guy to continue to breathe. >> i would love to give an illusion right now what happened between ted cruz and donald trump. instead, i'm stuck going back to the land mark american film talladega nights. you know what they were doing last night? the shake and bake. it was the shake and bake. if you have seen talladega nights, that's exactly what they were doing. >> he was protecting his guy so nobody else could swap paint with him. >> stay with us. ron, thank you. still ahead on morning joe,

presidential candidates carly fiorino and lindsey graham join us. nbc news political director chuck todd but first. >> mr. trump just committed the results. how about you? >> well, the statement i made last week that i would leave the party was con titingent on whet the party acts like they have in the past with a lot of dishonesty or like they're going to act now because i spoke to ryan and he assured me that the washington post writer had it all wrong and that they're not going to be engaging into anything for the will of the people. >> very interesting. he knows ryan so much he refers to him by his latin name. >> joe, this is the last time.

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joining us now. >> it's been a while. that's a pairing i would like to see. >> travel movies but. >> would you like to start the segment? >> this morning i don't think i've gotten through one introduction but that's okay because everything you've had to say the wonderful. >> thank you. can i just say if you do that

joke again you're off the set. >> the will for really joke about the baby? >> what's wrong with him? seriously. >> now let's bring in moderator of meet the press and host chuck todd. and ryan pubis. you and carson go back a long way, huh. >> hey, listen. with a name like mine, anything's possible. >> i was going to say, it's a hard enough name anyway. >> it's impossible.

>> you have a good night for the rnc and donald trump claiming he wasn't going to bolt from the party. >> yeah, i never lost any sleep over it. it's not like we're in constant regulation with the campaigns. i never lost sleep over it. the idea i would be calling a stubble secret meeting in a public restaurant in washington d.c. to talk about people engineering a brokers convention as if we could do that, it was just ridiculous.

>> chuck todd is here and has a question. >> hey mr. chairman, it's five months that you've been running presidential debates essentially as a party. you guys chose to do this. how do you feel its gone? >> i think it's gone a heck of a lot better than a few years ago. campaigns had no say over anything. debates called two weeks later and would be had. no one is talking about length of answers and no one is talking about rooms where candidates were going. any of the moderators, time frame. we've come a long way and i know it may seem like little stuff having a calender and having some say over who the moderators are and introducing a conservative proponent to the debates.

these are little achievements but in reality they're big for the party. i know rnc's in the future are going to improve more on where we've come and it's a big deal for the party. >> thank you very much for being here. >> thank you. by the way, our whole msnbc ban, the channels change. you can let chuck and me do an msnbc morning joe/mtp daily debate. >> there you go, ryan. >> on policy only. >> hey, congratulations on the debates and the packers and we'll talk to you soon. >> yes. thank you. >> thank you bill. >> say hi to carson for us.

anyway, chuck todd, everybody's talking about the status quo. how not when you have the top two guys hugging each other. i thought marco had a good debate last night. he wasn't just reading his notes. >> he would take punches and did well. >> i think it made him look better actually. >> he's just starting to be treated like a front runner. there could be new information to some voters. sometimes we forget that. ben carson got hurt by new information. they were talking about last

night he got together with chuck. when you watch that, you're reminded, we were talking about this earlier, if he's a nominee you see why he could be a strong nominee for the republican party. how does he get through the primary when ted cruz kicks him c constantly. that's what we have to find out. can he hold up? >> i think republican primary voters have always been swayed by the argument this person or that would make a stronger election candidate and republicans are destin to be hillary clinton. i think there's a sort of like 10 stages of acceptance. this is still a viable task that the electorate focuses on him. he's strong in national security and i think he can make a good case. >> you think? >> yeah. i think that the republican

electorate comes around to someone who can be a candidate. i was going to say cruz worried everybody in terms of general election strength. >> the only thing is in the early states especially, especially iowa, immigration is a killer. donald trump is where donald trump is because he started on immigration. >> john, what's your predicament? >> well, i think he's got, he's obviously trying to when it comes to cruz, i think that rand paul is not that big of a problem. ted cruz is a bigger problem. he's trying to combat it by

claiming cruz is not as big. cruz made a small mess last night on this front saying i don't intend to ever support legalization. he's taken some flak from that and he's having to clean that up a little bit. i think on the question in the battle between him and ted cruz, is cruz more as a rule unusual on the metadata or is rubio more vulnerable on the questions of immigration. rubio is in a much more difficult position. >> wouldn't you agree, john that you see the debate champion and ted cruz coming out and muddying up the nsa issue so much that nobody ever lands a blow on him where as marco is stuck out there in press conferences with chuck. that's harder to run away from. >> harder to run away from.

look, he was ultimately a member of the gang of eight. that's a curse in the republican party at this point. whenever he has to talk about immigration, he has to punt and i think it's not a successful strategy. >> all right. the curse that got george w. bush 44% of the vote. it's a curse he should hug. >> right but george bush got pounded by the electorate. >> by his own party. >> not thrilled on immigration. >> john, thank you very much. chuck, great. still to come. >> john, good luck out there.

i know a good doctor, give me a call. >> thanks, guys. >> off the books. >> by the way, exactly. off the strip. off the books. >> still to come. >> he slipped out. he's a doctor we've seen a lot. that's all i'm going to say. he's seen a lot. been combat sort of like the version of mash. >> every joke about 20 secs too long today. >> much more analysis ahead with mark and katy both who have been out on the trail much of the campaign season. plus we'll play for you a must seen moment from jimmy fallon last night as the new star wars movie makes its debut.

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yeah baby and you saw it last night. >> i saw it. i'm sworn to secrecy. i came home to watch the debate. it's good as you want it to be. what they do is introduce new characters and a new story but they pay appropriate omage to

the past. >> i wish they would advertise it more. >> y >> i will tell you from everything i've heard jay jay killed it, dropped the mic and ran off stage. >> i'm bursting at the scenes. there's so much i want to tell you. it's really good. >> that's what we loved. >> appropriately so. the thing is for star wars fans so in love with the first three. so disappointed in one, two and three which were overly harshly produced. they've been waiting for this moment. jay jay, the second, i'm sorry,

there's an alabama analogy. i knew the second we hired nick saban we were going to start winning national championships. in fact, i predicted we were going to win three or four. he's that good. the second i hear it's going to be jay jay it's like we're good. i'm going to relax. >> he's a fan. >> oh, that's what helps. it's the fan. >> so willie, he did it. >> it wasn't like a lame trip down memory lane like here are all the old actors. the way it's integrated helps. it's just he got me. >> let me just say if you don't get it by now, you won't get it. >> the first trailer, the speed going down, i like started getting chills. >> my mom use to let us stay home from school to go to the matinees. like the new 11:00 showing. >> i'm so mad at my mom.

they released it in may and then again in december. every friend of mine saw it. i was the last kid. >> i didn't see it the first time it went out. my mom though because they had just moved me to pensacola and i was really angry they moved me from up state new york, my mom was desperatety trying to connect with me. it's one of the really sweet memories even though i know she hated the movie. she took me to star wars in 77, the second of december and we sat and watched it in an empty movie theater. >> what year? >> december '77. >> i remember the theater across the street from the mid-way mall. >> i remember being on the road and because my mom did that when return of the jet eye came out, my mom and dad, it was probably the last movie we went to

together as the three of us sweet memories. >> jay jay had a lot of pressure on him and he delivered. >> i went to that movie, tyson's corner. >> please don't tell me. >> up next. he walked out of wedding crashers too. >> that was just bad. you know how it is. >> oh wedding crashers may be, you get your citizen cane and gone with the wind and you get wedding crashers tied for second. >> and then the other guys is number four. >> as useless as it gets. >> up next. >> it's my picture. you gave it to him. >> up next. >> one of the great moments in movie history. >> he walked out in the tux airing it. >> up next. >> there is such a five minutes wasted on dudes. the will ferrell movies and star

wars. >> alex, cut our mics. we'll be back. >> up next, if he doesn't get the nomination he could be a pollster or tv exec. >> ouch. >> you see that in the ratings. the truth is if i wasn't on the show you would have a million people watching and i think you're going to have many, many. >> katy joins us with some of her interviews with front runner donald trump and mark joins us as well. we'll be right back. i absolutely love my new york apartment, but the rent is outrageous. good thing geico offers affordable renters insurance. with great coverage it protects my personal belongings should they get damaged, stolen or destroyed. [doorbell] uh, excuse me. delivery. hey. lo mein, szechwan chicken, chopsticks, soy sauce and you got some fortune cookies. have a good one. ah, these small new york apartments...

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here's what he said. those who feel like they can intimidate our fellow citizens to take out their anger don't represent the best of america, they represent the worst of human kind and they should be ashamed of that kind of behavior. >> that was hillary clinton yesterday in minneapolis details her own strategy for detailing the homeland. one includes empowering muslim american communities to help prevent radicalization. joining us now from las vegas, former adviser mark and katy. katys you caught up with donald trump in the spin room after the debate. how did that go? >> well, i wanted to talk to him about ted cruz and specifically why he's refusing to go after him. we've all been talking about

their unofficial lines and they're both going to the same voters and try to go woo the same voters and weary of attacking one another. i wanted to ask him directly. i've seen him attack every other candidate on the fields. even when others have not attackattac attacked him. he's gone after people like carson. he's being very careful with ted cruz. here's how he explained it last night. >> he respects me. he took back what he said which i appreciate it. i like him. >> he doesn't get along with people in the senate. >> he gets along with me. you know what i like about ted cruz. he was with me with nobody else was when i was saying things that were strong and people came back and said trump turned out to be right. ted cruz is the one person that backed me. he was with me and i have to respect that. >> there was a cease fire right

now or hold fire, if you will, i imagine as january wears on we get closer to the caucus state in iowa there's going to be a point where donald trump is not losing to ted cruz. there's a couple of lines he's been toying with out on the campaign trail. they say he needs to be able to get along with people. i can get along with people. donald trump can get along with people. i can bridge gaps and bring democrats together with republicans and dependents. i can make deals and get things done where ted cruz hasn't. let's see how strong and forceful he gets with these attacks. >> all right, katy, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. let's turn now to mark. mark, the first important question we'll skip past the how do you pronounce the name of the

rnc chairman and ask if you're a star wars fan or not? mark. can you hear me? >> i'm sorry, joe, i couldn't hear you. >> i'm asking the important first question, are you a star wars fan? >> of course, i am. let me, in fact, i think we had a star wars debate last night. >> what's happening here? >> all right. >> seriously. >> did we get him back? >> what's the deal? >> he's in vegas. >> the force is strong with this one. he's fought back the technical grim lins. go ahead and tell us about the star wars debate last night. this is by the way. wow. >> that was a good truck. >> thanks for that, guys.

>> homer simpson pushing the buttons there. >> okay. >> all right. anyway, so mark, thank you. that may have been the most compelling. he woke up awfully early. >> we haven't seen this play out. it's going to come. who is it? >> is it cruz and rubio? >> is it somebody counting on rubio, cruz?

he gets impacted by the incoming. none of its happened yet. there's a little bit here and there. surprisingly, only donald trump goes negative effectively. >> people have found out going against jeb doesn't usually pay. what does he do with his money going positive for jeb hasn't paid. >> i know. >> he is in danger of becoming the john conley. >> i don't know. jeb has to pick a state and plow it all in there. >> we haven't talked chris christie. worst thing to happen to jeb bush last night was chris christie. >> he was good last night. >> it may have hurt rubio too. if it muddles up the establishment lane over there. >> i thought he took a knock at the way senators talk.

>> chris christie rising is not good news for anybody in the establishment wing. not rubio, not kasich, not jeb or anybody. >> chuck, we'll see you at 5:00. by then the truck issues will be worked out, but you never know. >> we hope so. >> i owe mckinnon. >> make it good. lindsey graham and carly fiorina join us. stock futures up ahead of today's expected interest rate hike. brian sullivan joins us from cnbc. you almost got it. julie mendelson sent you an email saying what about princess leia. >> princess leia knows her value. we'll be right back.

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i have been tested. i have beaten breast cancer. i have buried a child. i started as a secretary. i fought my way to the top of corporate america while being called every b-word in the book. >> that was part of carly fiorina's opening remarks during last night's presidential debate. she joins us later this morning. and we'll also speak with senator lindsey graham who really stood out in the earlier debate, dominated by national security. "morning joe" is back in a moment. thousands of people came out today to run the race for retirement. so we asked them... are you completely prepared for retirement? okay, mostly prepared?

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jeb said when they come across the southern border they come as an act of love. >> you said in september 30th that isis was not a factor. >> am i talking or are you talking, jeb. >> i'm talking right now. >> you're trying to build up your energy, jeb, but it's not working very well. >> this is a tough business to run for president. >> you're a tough guy, jeb. >> we need a leader that is -- >> you're tough. >> you're never going to be president of the united states by insulting your way to the presidency. >> i'm at 42 and i'm doing better. >> yes we'd shoot down the planes of russian pilots if they were stupid enough to think this president is the same feckless weakling as the president we have. >> if you're in favor of world war iii you have your candidate. we might think about someone who

might shut down a bridge because they don't like their friends. >> we need a commander in chief who has made tough calls in tough times. not first-term senators who never made an executive decision in their life. >> if i'm elected president, we will secure the border. we will triple the border patrol. we will build a wall that works, and i'll get donald trump to pay for it. >> i'll build it. >> morning, everybody. it is wednesday. december 16th. welcome to "morning joe." okay. >> what do you think? >> lindsey graham won the debate. i'm with you. >> lindsey graham was fantastic. >> veteran columnist and nbc contributor mike barnicle is with us. former communications director for george w. bush nicolle wallace. >> i loved watching rubio defend a world view. been beaten up and kicked around. i think he got attacked more and had to defend that sort of

philosophy. it was good for him. >> sounds like you liked his performance. >> i liked his performance. >> who won? >> i adore lindsey graham. i thought the apology at the beginning did a lot of good for the republican party. >> he was incredible. >> willie. >> i thought jeb bush was really good. best performance but too late. chris christie, again, excellent in other debate. i thought. donald trump has to be the winner because nobody laid a glove on him and he is up by 25 points in the polls. >> after the debate i started thinking, this was an inside deal. you have trump and cruz that were kind of hitting each other, but they see now that they're locked in first and second place. >> right. >> everybody else is a distant third. everybody on the stage was attacking everybody but the top two guys. trump goes after jeb. cruz goes after rubio. the establishment's two favorite candidates and they refuse -- look at this -- they refuse to touch each other. it smacked of an inside deal. if this maintains the status quo

neither jeb or rubio catches them. it's a smart political move. they made it. they either made a direct or indirect deal. i'm going after jeb and everybody else. you go after rubio and everybody else. we don't touch each other and we draw into blood. it worked. >> nobody else touched trump either except for jeb bush who went after him relatively effectively a couple of times. you have to wonder, if any other setting when you have a clear frontrunner everybody piles on him. nobody wants to touch donald trump. >> they're scared of him. i was wondering why marco, who was also getting hit by all sides, rand paul going after him. cruz going after him. he had to defend himself, which shows that they fear him as the establishment's best choice. i always wonder why he didn't go more aggressively after trump. >> there were a lot of strong performances. also in the pre-debate lindsey graham had incredible moments and made unbelievably good sense

and showed emotion and told his fellow republicans just stop on some of the things that are happening within the party. in las vegas this morning. managing editor of bloomberg politics, mark halperin. >> mark, it seems like there was a deal, direct or indirectly, by trump and cruz. we shoot outside of the building. we don't shoot at each other and maintain the status quo where we're easily first and second place. >> i asked trump after the debate if he would change his posture towards cruz and he said maybe down the road. i think they believe they can get to april with a lot of delegates if they leave each other alone and they seem comfortable with that. they seem comfortable going forward into the new year not being at war. and everybody else, i think, has to ask themselves the question, with the exception of jeb bush and chris christie, are they comfortable with the trajectory with two guys who may end up with so many delegates that they

can't be stopped and it's a two-man race between them. that's a question about rubio. >> jeb, b. christie, good night. cruz, good night. rand paul. he played his libertarian role. he does very well in that role. rubio a b. trump a b, which is good enough. that's a gentleman's whatever. i mean, might as well be an a because the status quo is maintained. carly b minus. kasich, b minus. ben carson a c. talking about reince priebus. let's talk about marco rubio. marco rubio and nicolle said this. marco rubio actually turned in, i thought, a better performance. what is maddening to me is when he sounds like an sga candidate who reads his same lines.

last night he was attacked. i thought he did very well, as did nicolle. punched back very well. the dynamics are horrible for him. at this stage of the debate one and two are locked in and he is getting it from all sides. for the first time he was on the defense. this is the time, was it not, marks, halperin, where he needed to really be going after trump? >> he's going after cruz, right? the reason i didn't give him a higher grade is because i thought, because he was on the defense and also on the offense against cruz he sort of dropped his optimism talking about the future of america in an uplifting way. i think it's been his biggest strength so far. the other reason i gave him a lower grade is, until he shows he can take on trump -- it doesn't have to be personal. but until he can say to the party, this is not the right direction for us. he took a pass on engaging trump or even mildly criticizing him. i don't see his path to winning a state if he can't get over

either of those two guys. fighting with cruz takes him out of his lane and off his rhetoric which is his greatest strength of being uplifting. >> here are ted cruz and marco rubio clashing on issues from terrorism to immigration. >> it's not the most capable. it's the most sophisticated terror threat we've faced. we need more tools, not less tools. the tool we lost, the metadata tool was the strongest tool we had. >> what he knows is that the old program covered 20% to 30% of phone numbers to search or terrorists. the new program covers nearly 100%, giving us greater ability to stop acts of terrorism. >> there is nothing we are allowed to do under this bill that we could not do before. the bill took away a valuable tool that allowed the national security agency and other intelligence agencies to quickly and rapidly access phone records and match them up with other

phone records to see who terrorists have been calling. the next time there is an attack on this country, i promise you, the first thing people will want to know is why didn't we know about it and why didn't we stop it. after ten years in the probationary status where all they have is a work permit i'm open to allowing people to apply for a green card. that's down the road. >> there was a time for choosing as regan put it. some chose to stand with president obama and chuck schumer and support a massive amnesty plan. >> ted, you support legalizing people who are in the country illegal illegally. ted cruz supported a 500 increase in the workers in this country and he supports doubling the number of green cards. >> i understand marco wants to raise confusion. it is not accurate what he just said that i supported legalization. indeed, i led the fight against his legalization and amnesty

bill. there was one commentator that put it this way, that for marco to suggest our record is the same is like suggesting the fireman and the arsonist have the same record because they're both at the scene of the fire. he was fighting to grant amnesty and not to secure the border. i was fighting to secure the border. >> does ted cruz rule out ever legalizing people in this country illegally now? >> senator cruz. >> do you rule it out. >> i have never supported legalization and i do not intend to support legalization. >> marco had some good points there. and ted cruz is very good at moving away from past positions. we have seen it. he is moving quickly on these two issues, away from past issues. i'm on marco's side on the nsa side of things. ted is talking in circles there. that said, i thought the candidate that was in the most vulnerable position because of the party that we are in 2015 was marco rubio, despite the fact that what he was saying was

true, marco is vulnerable because he got out front working with schumer and he'll never be forgiven for that by a certain sector of this party. >> the problem with cruz's position here is it was taken at a time when he was trying to appeal to rand paul's constituency. his positions on intelligence are viewed as disqualifying. there was a piece yesterday about the patchwork -- the explanation for cruz's sort of patchwork policies is that at every turn he was trying to appeal to somebody. >> we have to admit he is covering it up fairly well. >> he is a great debater. but i think, having a position that may be unpopular with elements of the base, if you can endure it in and survive it in the primary is a stronger place for our party to be in post san bernardino and post paris. rubio will have the support and roaring voices from intel agree with the rubio position.

>> they're on his side. most americans will be on rubio's side, i certainly am, on the nsa divide with cruz and rand paul. >> and immigration in a general election. >> what he did early on is -- and he knew it -- >> that's his baggage. >> this was a significant moment. rubio played the role of journalist and pinned down cruz on whether or not he would eventually get to a path to citizenship. cruz left the door open. >> he's so squirmy. >> he was pinned down last night. >> you also have the two audiences watching, the conservative republican delegates watching, and you've got the general audience, like me, sitting there saying rubio won that debate. he is more appealing. >> you're talking about in the general. >> yes. >> yeah. >> there is no doubt, for general election voters, rubio won the debate. no doubt for republicans, who vote in primaries, rubio did not win that debate.

>> right. >> doing the job for 20 years. we win the primary and lose the general. >> jeb bush managed to get under donald trump's skin last night in a series of clashes. take a look. >> donald is great at the one-liners. but he is a chaos candidate. and he would be a chaos president. he would not be the commander in chief we need to keep our country safe. >> jeb doesn't really believe i'm unhinged. he said that simply because he has failed in this campaign. it's been a total disaster. nobody cares. >> donald, you will not be able to insult your way to the presidency. that's not going to happen. and i do have the strength. [ cheers and applause ] >> i know what i don't know. i know what i don't know. i would seek out, as i have, the best advice that exists. i won't get my information from the shows. i don't know if that's saturday morning or sunday morning. i don't know which one. >> i think it's very sad that

cnn leads jeb bush, governor bush, down a road by starting off virtually all of the questions, mr. trump this -- i think it's very sad. >> the simple fact is, if you think this is tough and you're not being treated fairly, imagine what it will be like dealing with president putin or president xi or dealing with the islamic terrorists. this is a tough business. >> you're a tough guy, jeb. >> we need a leader -- >> you're real tough. >> you won't be president of the united states. >> i'm at 42 and you are at 33. so far i'm doing better. >> doesn't matter. >> i'm doing better. you started over here. you're moving further and pretty soon you'll be off the end. >> i thought jeb did well. >> he -- >> and i must say, on all those comments that he made, all donald gave were personal insults. >> yeah. but again, for the primary voters, i think donald trump did perfectly well and jeb bush a little late to use someone's

words before this show who might know more than me. >> he had his best night. >> yeah, he did. >> it was interesting. and for the first time he did manage to get under donald's skin. >> he did. >> clearly. clearly annoyed. >> at this point it just allows donald to do what he does. >> he looked more like the guy who impersonates him on "snl" than the guy on "snl" with those faces. there he is! >> i don't agree with that. >> but i think jeb is finding his voice. he certainly did last night. maybe too little too late. who knows. >> in the last few debates he would have the one line he prepared and once he laid that out he wasn't ready for the conversation that followed. he was ready for the conversation that followed last night. i agree with you, mika. if you are a donald trump fan you loved all that stuff. you love him swatting away jeb bush and talking about the lead. >> but what you are attracted to -- i know a little bit about the trump supporter, what you're attracted to is his strength.

i think what jeb did finally was project extraordinary strength. i might be at 2:00, but -- so i think when these guys start figuring out that the secret christina isn't trump, it's his strength and his ability to project strength -- >> it's the second to the last debate. >> we've all said it might be too late. but jeb in the other debates was taking away the wrong lessons. i think he has finally internalized the right one, to project strength no matter your standing in the poll. still ahead. lindsey graham's emotional thank you to muslims who have served in the armed forces. as rhetoric in the party intensifies he and carly fiorina join us after strong debate performances. is the first interest rate hike in nearly a decade in store. i wonder how the market will do? >> we'll see. >> willie and i are not

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and our environment, and if me driving a that truck means that somebody gets to go home safer, then i'll drive it every day of the week. together, we're building a better california. now i'm going to move to the undercard debate which will undermine exactly what you said because they were rough on the president during that. rick santorum declared we've entered world war iii and defended trump's travel ban to foreign muslims. fantastic. senator lindsey graham took on the field on their approaches to the islamic state. >> donald trump has done the one single thing you cannot do, declare war on islam itself. isil would be dancing in the streets. they just don't believe in dancing. this is a coup for them. to all of our muslim friends throughout the world like the

king of jordan and the president of egypt, i am sorry. he does not represent us. there are at least 3500 american muslims serving in the armed forces. thank you for your service. [ applause ] >> you are not the enemy. your religion is not the enemy. i was at the second presidential election in afghanistan. the guy guarding me was an american muslim sergeant in the army who grew up in kabul, left when he graduated high school. joined the army. went back to the high school where they were doing polling. he took me there and cried like a baby. i cried like a baby. he is the solution to this problem, folks. he is not the problem. leave the faith alone. go after the radicals that kill us all.

>> i have been working for a decade to figure out how to win this war. to my good friend ted cruz. please ask him the following question. you say you would keep assad in power. i will tell you that is the worst possible thing that can come out of an american leader's mouth. it would be disastrous. his favorite movie is apparently princess bride. ted, getting in bed with iran and russia to save assad is inconceivable. >> senator santorum, let me ask you -- >> princess buttercup would not like this. [ applause ] >> i would like to stop sending $350 billion overseas to buy oil from people who hate our guts. wouldn't you? wouldn't you like to export natural gas to cut putin's legs out from under him? i am not afraid of a guy riding on a horse without a shirt. he has a pair of toos and a full

house and walking all over it. it worked. i blame obama for isil not bush. i am tired of beating on bush. i miss george w. bush. i wish you were president right now. we wouldn't be in this mess. >> i tell you what, his statements, mike barnicle, look at his facial expressions here, by the way. >> i had this put together because i feel a connection with lindsey graham. >> mika actually said where has he been all my life. where has he been all my life. >> some of his best moments were without rhetoric, as here, when you -- especially when you get the shot of his reactions to what's being said. >> i tell you, i feel a -- >> great stuff. >> you should feel a connection because he rolls his eyes instead of saying things. >> i think he learned from the

master. he must watch "morning joe." >> can i say i wish president obama would consider at some point giving him the presidential medal of freedom or honor or something debate him being rough on the president. what a great, great public service, mike barnicle. i'm serious. that lindsey graham performed on behalf of a republican party that may not deserve it right now and on behalf of americans who need some leader on my side of the aisle to say what he said about american muslims. to tell the story about american muslims putting their lives on the line every day for our freedom. >> lindsey graham's performance last night was a vital and very effective antidote to a lot of the rhetoric that's consumed the republican party. >> the hatred. >> at one point in the undercard debate -- and because lindsey graham was there it's no longer in my mind an undercard debate. at one point during the debate there was an attempt largely made by rick santorum to

redefine a world religion. islam, tried to redefine a religion, to suit his political purposes. thank god for lindsey graham for stepping into the fray and saying what he said. >> he actually sounded like george bush after 9/11. coming up. carly fiorina promised the top newspapers in vegas they can bet on her being one of the last candidates standing after the primaries. we'll talk to her about trying to break out last night when "morning joe" continues. flrb (phone ringing) (phone ringing) you can't deal with something by ignoring .t but that's how some presidential candidates seem to be dealing with social security. americans work hard and pay into it, so our next president needs a real plan to keep it strong. (elephant noise) (donkey noise) hey candidates!

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we need to unify our party. we need to be better than our government, which 75% of the american people now think is corrupt and incompetent. they're right. we need to be better than our politics. 80% think we have a professional political class, of both parties, that cares more about its power, position and privilege than actually on getting anything done. we need to unify our party. we need a real conservative in the white house, and we need to beat hillary clinton to take our country back and keep our nation safe. i can. i am. and together, if you join me, we will take our country back. welcome back, joining us from las vegas, republican presidential candidate carly fiorina. carly, great to have you on the show. how did it feel last night? >> well, good morning, mika.

good morning, joe. it felt good last night. you know, look, i think all the brawling between the first-term senators is why people are tired of politics. i think there was a lot of arguing that had nothing to do with solving the problem. that's also why people are tired of politics. but every one of these debates is an opportunity for me to, once again, reintroduce myself to the american people and show them what leadership looks like. i think that's what the american people are looking for. >> how is your campaign going? are you out on the trail as much as you were in the beginning? >> oh, my gosh, i am out on the trail every single day. day after day. today i will do several events in nevada. and then i will leave for iowa. i'm campaigning day in, day out. and will keep doing so. >> how is it going out there? >> it's going great. one of the things i'm always struck by is the vast chasm

between what's going on on the ground and what's going on on the air waves. on the trail people ask me about substance. they don't ask me about donald trump. they don't ask me about the stuff we talk about an the morning after. they ask me about things that impact their lives. politics is deeply personal. people are worried and frustrated. they're now afraid. and they are tired of the same old stuff that never solves the problem. >> were you pleased that the debate moderators last night actually did something fairly remarkable and stuck to policy instead of trying to make it a slug-fest by setting up one opponent to attack another opponent? >> well, i think they did a fair amount of the latter also, frankly. i think cnn did a fine job, but they clearly were looking to create skirmishes between several people on that stage. and that's nothing i can control but yes, it was obviously a

debate focused on foreign policy, as it should have been, given the events in san bernardino, given the events at the l.a. unified school district yesterday, and given what we're learning about government ine ineptitude and this administration and hillary clinto clinton's refusal to take this threat seriously. >> in the clip we played to introduce your appearance this morning, you used the phrase "we have to take our country back." and i'm wondering, do you think there is, within your party, is there an element within your party that you think you have to take your party back from them in the sense that they have such a reliance on the language of fear, estrangement, preventing muslims from coming to america, things like that, things that are sort of out of the mainstream? is there a sense that you feel that you can use common-sense

language and still win a nomination of your party? >> well, first of all, i think the democratic presidential candidate par-- party is equall guilty of the sins you named. hillary clinton described republicans as enemies. it is the democrat party that immediately following a terrorist attack talks about climate change and gun control instead of facing the real issue, which is that isis has come home to roost. but 80% -- 80% of the american people are frustrated with the professional political class of both parties. they're tired of politics as usual because it isn't working. there was a squirmish on the stage last night about immigration. how long have we been talking about immigration? 25 years. 25 years we have been talking about immigration, and the politicians apparently want to talk about it and don't want to solve it. so what i see out there day after day after day -- by the way, think about 75%. that means it's democrats,

independents and republicans. it's young, old, men, women, people of every ethnicity. people are fed up and frustrated and afraid because things are not working for them. >> carly. >> what they seek is leadership. it is what i am offering. >> you also offer a lot of expertise in technology. we have, not a new threat but a new way that terrorists are becoming radicalized, through technology. will you proposed specific legislation, an updated version, if you will, of the patriot act? do you think it's necessary? >> you see, unlike politicians, i don't think passing a law is the only answer. what i would do first is immediately change the procedures that this bureaucracy has been using. it's ridiculous to suggest that all we're looking at is databases of known or suspected terrorists when we know that isis is recruiting people who have not been on those lists. it's also ridiculous to say that the government isn't looking at

social media. everybody looks at social media. and finally, i would engage the private sector. here is the thing. vast government bureaucracies cannot keep up with the pace of technology. terrorists can. and they are. but bureaucracies cannot. and we see this over and over again. so passing a law, frankly, is beside the point. we have the technology and the tools acting within our constitution to protect this nation. but we need people who understand those tools and how to use them. i do. and there are a lot in the private sector who do. we need to move as fast as the terrorists and we're not. >> all right. carly, thank you so much. it's always great to have you here. of course, mika is sorry that you're not here along with your husband because she would have loved to flirt with frank this morning. >> oh, stop! >> i have to tell you, mika, frank was going to come to the set. when he learned you were far away in new york, he said, never mind.

i'll stay in the hotel room. >> sleeping comfortably. >> great job last night. see you soon. >> thanks. paul ryan was able to do something as house speaker that he couldn't do as budget chairman. today a huge day for the economy with the fed expected to raise interest rates for the first time in a decade. brian sullivan says it will have major implications for the non-financial world as well. and he joins us next to explain. today people are coming out

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the citi double cash® card. it's a cash back win-win. with 1% when you buy and 1% as you pay. with two ways to earn on purchases, it makes a lot of other cards seem one-sided. . the new york city commissioner of the homeless is stepping down as the bill de blasio administration plans an overhaul of the struggling agency. homeless service commissioner gilbert taylor has presided over the troubled department since de blasio took office. the mayor's office also announced yesterday a full-scale restructuring of the department of homeless services will take place in the near future. >> homelessness continues to be

a political problem for the de blasio administration. 58,000 people currently living in new york's homeless shelters. 23,000 of them children. the number has risen since the mayor took office. and of course, a lot of it has to do with the economy. but mike, you -- it's -- i can't believe we're reading this. you were just venting, as were you, as are a lot of new yorkers, about how many homeless people are not -- are on the streets every day. >> with their kids! >> -- with their kids and not in shelters where they can get taken care of, and the kids in school. >> i'm not a new yorker. department of state taxation. i am not a new yorker but i am here two or three nights a week. i don't vote here. but you can anecdotally see the rise in the homeless population in this city. it could cost him -- it could cost de blasio a second term. i would think. people are frustrated. because in areas where they're not used to homelessness and haven't been, under the bloomberg administration, they

are so clearly in evidence, arnold lincoln center. >> what surprises me is that it's in places where they're there every day, and it's like they sort of set up shop there, again, with children -- >> part of the landscape. >> with dogs, with guitars. >> yeah. >> with whatever. and that's not in their best interest. it's not in their best interest health-wise. it's not in the children's best interests. it sounds like mayor de blasio. >> is acting. >> is acting on it because i guess the question has gotten so big. we hear it from all new yorkers. >> i think that -- i don't remember seeing so many families on the street. and that's a tragedy and a failure of everyone who lives in this city. there are pretty great public schools. if you had -- it sounds like he's trying to get the system running better so that the kids are -- >> so the kids can be taken care of. >> the jobs they can get don't

pay. >> it's especially jarring on the island of manhattan. an island of extreme wealth. it ought not to be the case that there are so many homeless families living in central park. >> one of the richest cities. >> in the world. >> on the planet. this area. and people are living on the streets? >> it is -- >> and the kids are stuck not going to school? that's just unacceptable. i am glad he's -- i'm glad the mayor is doing this. >> it is jarring, the juxtaposition to leave this build, 30 rockefeller center, walk a block up to fifth avenue and walk past this gilded age that is represented on fifth avenue and all these high-end stores. >> ugh. >> and bump into a homeless family at the edge of central park. >> in the stairwells of the churches. >> we'll follow this. let's dig in closely. congress is waking up with a deal on a spending bill that would fund federal agencies for most of 2016 and end the threat of a government shutdown.

the $1.15 trillion spending bill was released early this morning. the government funding is set to expire at midnight tonight. speaker paul ryan said lawmakers will vote today on a short-term extension which will give congress time to approve the long-term bill. the bill also reauthorizes the drug act extending health coverage for 9/11 first responders. >> that's great news. i am glad that they did that. i know jon stewart has to be happy this morning. brian sullivan, another thing i love seeing, we have ended last night, at least congress passed a provision in the bill which i was hoping they would do that ends the stupid ban on oil exports. we can now export oil, drive the cost of oil even lower across the globe, and have an impact on the world economy in this sector as well. >> true. but i don't think we want to drive it lower because it's

costing a lot of jobs. i'll talk about that in a second, joe. you're right. in the greatest news dump in history they quietly announced the deal got done. it does. now it has to be passed. it ends the oil expert ban, the 40-year ban on exporting oil. it also, as a trade, continues the tax credits for things like tesla cars, solar and wind. sort of both sides of the energy spectrum got a win. will it drive oil prices down? that's an interesting take. production is already way too high. the problem right now is not america. we are not the problem. the problem is that saudi arabia continues to pump, pump, pump. >> the great news is we can sell to markets where the price is higher than it is right now. >> japan, for example. they're salivating for our oil. >> exactly. i misspoke there. i'm sorry. that's the great news. but the long-term impact, though, will be to sort of stabilize prices across the globe hopefully. in the short run, our energy

sector has a chance to sell in markets and actually make money. >> it's also, i think, going to the debate last night, a national security issue, right? a global security issue. because right now so much of the world is reliant on oil from iraq, iran, increasingly, russia, saudi arabia, venezuela. none of those five countries, folks, the model of political stability. so now american oil can be used around the world a little more. maybe we're not the model of political stability. the fed. tell us. >> for the first time in a decade the federal reserve at 2:00 p.m. eastern time is likely to raise the federal funds rate. interest rates will go up. borrowing rates will go up. the dollar will probably go up a little bit which is fine. if you're under 32 years of age, work on wall street, trade, run money, money manager. you've never done anything with financial markets during a rising interest rate environments. one fourth to one third of the people managing the billions and

trillions of dollars in the united states have never actually operated or been employed when the federal reserve has raised interest rates. >> crazy. >> how does that make you feel? >> old! >> we've been fortunate to have basically zero percent interest rates. if the numbers go back up, our $19 trillion debt becomes unmanageable very quickly. >> well said. >> brian sullivan, thank you very much. senator lindsey graham joins us next. keep it right here on "morning joe." when a moment turns romantic

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okay. joining us now from las vegas, republican presidential candidate senator lindsey graham. >> what a night, man! >> we've decided you're the conscience of the republican party. >> well, i -- send money! [ laughter ] >> that's the conscience speaking. the republican conscience speaking. >> you looked so frustrated last night. >> the conscience needs money. >> last night you came out swinging. why? >> well, i wanted to articulate a way forward to win a war we can't afford to lose. isolationism is in full retreat within the republican party. events have proved me right. the i quit declaring war on the faith. the only way to be safe here at home is partnerships. readic radical islam is a small strain.

i have been there a lot. i have seen muslims die trying to fight radical islam, helping us. i have seen interpreters attacked and killed, judges assassinated. i have seen americans partner with people in the region, and that's the way forward. this idea of killing every man, woman and child in the middle east does not make us safer. >> senator, how does senator ted cruz champion the military and champion bombing syria, defeating isis, at the same time that he is a proponent or was a proponent of sequestration, of cutting budgets, including the pentagon's? >> i tell you what. i have been in the air force 33 years. retired this june. i have never heard anybody explain carpet bombing like that. ted cruz is trying to be everything to everybody. he is actually an isolationist. did it make sense what he was saying? the reason isil is inside of raqqa, in homes, offices,

integrated into the civilian population is they're daring us to kill everybody. ted cruz's world, they're all in the desert and we carpet bomb them. he doesn't have a fixed foreign policy. he is an isolationist libertarian when that is hot. he's tough when that becomes hot. he supports sequestration. you can't defend this country supporting sequestration and you won't carpet bomb your way to defeating isil. you need a ground component. he was the biggest loser in my view. no sense of purpose about how to win the war. what he said didn't make a lot of sense to me. >> lindsey, you said on the prospect of trump winning in 2016 that isil would be dancing in the streets, they just don't believe in dancing. >> except. yeah, that's the -- they're trying to declare -- they're trying to divide the west from islam. they love it when the far right french parties win. they're trying to scare us to hate the faith.

don't take the bait. president bush went to a mosque. he doesn't understand this is a religious war between radical islam, the world at large and the way to win the war is partner with people in the faith who overwhelmingly reject this ideology. when you say ban all muslims coming into america you undercut our ability to partner and you're empowering the enemy. >> you were obviously offended by donald trump being judge and jury or bowe bergdahl and suggesting that this young soldier should be executed. tell us why you were so offended. >> i am not fighting for summary execution. they do that, donald. they kill that. they execute people without a trial. you want to be commander in chief of the american armed forces and you're articulating summary execution of a military member.

the world is falling apart. we need serious discussions about how to make america safe, and as a military lawyer for 33 years, i can only imagine how people must feel within the ranks to hear that the wannabe commander in chief would summarily execute a soldier without a trial. >> obviously you and i had no sympathy for bowe bergdahl when we first heard the news. you talk to army investigators who are openly weeping about how badly he was treated in captivity and said, this man was not working with the taliban. he was being tortured by the taliban. he is guilty of a lot of things, being stupid, being naive, having parents that didn't guide him, but certainly nothing that rises to the level of execution! >> number one, he is -- he faces a life sentence. serious charges. how about this idea. let the military justice system work. let's be americans when it comes to how you impose justice.

and this whole -- he sounds strong and tough, when donald trump advocates summary execution of an american military member, donald, that's not tough, that's demagoguery. you are undercutting the reason we're fighting this war. please knock it off. >> senator lindsey graham. thank you very much for being on the show. >> thank you. up next, what if anything did we learn today? (phone ringing) you can't deal with something by ignoring .t but that's how some presidential candidates seem to be dealing with social security. americans work hard and pay into it, so our next president needs a real plan to keep it strong. (elephant noise) (donkey noise) hey candidates! answer the call already. the markets change, at t. rowe price, our disciplined

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. senator cruz, you have said you disagree with mr. trump's policy. will you spell that out with us. >> well, listen, hugh, everyone understands why donald suggested what he has. >> last month you said you were open to naming senator cruz as your running mate. >> i did. >> why would you be willing to put somebody who is a maniac one -- >> i've gotten to know him over the last three or four days. he has a wonderful temperament. he is just fine. >> if you smell a delicious crispy smell after the race it's not your tailpipe it's a little bit of shake and then bake. >> shake and bake! >> i can't believe that. >> that's exactly what ted cruz and donald trump were doing. a little shake and bake. number two always protects number one. >> that's what you learned. i learned trump -- look at the conversation we had today, trump wins. like it or not. >> status quo. >> he might win but i think lindsey graham is correct and he hope he stays in the race

longer. >> words i never thought i would utter. i would like to hear more from lindsey graham on the big stanl. >> me too. >> what time is it? >> it appears to be time for "morning joe." please stick around because "msnbc live" is up next. it's going to be fun today. you're going to enjoy it. thank you so much and god bless you. good morning. i'm josé díaz-balart. right now on "msnbc live," sparring on the strip. terrorism, national security dominated the last republican debate before the election year begins. over the course of two hours. candidates made their case to voters in a race that's getting down to the wire, on the polls in on the calendar. marco rubio took shots at ted cruz, and we saw the most aggressive performance by jeb bush to date. donald trump said the whole thing felt like the academy awards. did anyone go with home with the