this sunday morning, donald trump dominating the national polls now more than ever. >> something is going on and it's beautiful to see. >> but no one has ever won without paying more attention to early states like iowa. trump is rewriting the rules. can he rewrite history? donald trump joins me live. plus, last night's democratic debate. >> secretary clinton is too much into regime change and a little bit too aggressive without knowing what the unintended consequences might be. >> did bernie sanders pass the commander in chief test? he joins me this morning. and speaker of the house paul ryan says he and president obama don't agree on much.

>> we're going to have one heck of a contrast in 2016. >> so why is ryan confident that he and the president can get things done? my exclusive end-of-the-year sit down with the speaker. joining me for insight and analysis are nbc and telemundo jose diaz-balart, doris kearns goodwin. maggie haberman of the "new york times" and radio talk show host hugh hewitt. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. tip o'neill famously said all politics is local. donald trump has a different idea. he's betting all politics is national. this week trump dominated the national poll, again, and as never before. topping the second-place finisher. no matter what poll you use, ted cruz, in each case, by more than 20 points. tradition would tell you national polls are meaningless. just ask presidents giuliani and

herman cane. but donald trump and marco rubio are throwing out the old book that says you have to win iowa or new hampshire before building a national campaign. trump, who will join me in just a moment, wants to rewrite the rule book. the question is, can he rewrite history? >> the only one i'm not leading in is the stupid "des moines register." what a -- >> donald trump is drawing thousands to rallies with a whistle-stop strategy. parking his boeing 575 within view of the stage. he's ignoring the face-to-face retail politics that have been the political playbook for decades. he's held just 32 public events in iowa this year. his biggest threat, ted cruz, has held 75. in new hampshire, trump has made 22 stops compared to jeb bush's 66 and chris christie's 111. those candidates dismiss the fact that they're lagging nationally. >> this time eight years ago hillary clinton was 25 points ahead of barack obama. i don't remember people saying "obama, you have to get out of the race."

>> true, but we've never seen someone like trump. he's saturating social media. >> i'm the ernest hemingway of 140 characters. can you believe it? >> and he's dominating cable news. on fox news, a traditional home for republican primary voters, trump has gotten nearly eight times as many mentions as cruz over the past month. marco rubio is following a similar strategy. in iowa, he's chosen to invest in television ads over staffers in field offices and he's been criticized for a light campaign schedule. just 48 stops this year. >> you haven't been in iowa nearly as much -- >> i read that. that's not true. >> meanwhile, ted cruz is betting on a traditional campaign playbook, rolling out iowa endorsements and opening a dormitory in des moines nicknamed camp cruz for volunteers from out of state. >> let's go cruz crew, we've got three minutes. >> cruz and rubio are already in an all-out brawl, compete to be the leading alternative to trump.

>> marco's campaign is lying. >> he's not told the truth about his position in the past. >> rubio's sponsorship of the senate 2014 immigration reform bill was met with hostility by many conservatives but rubio insists cruz won't admit he backed the reform, too. >> he supported an amendment in the u.s. senate when we were debating the immigration bill where he flat out bragged about the fact he wasn't undoing the legalization. >> rubio is trying to expose cruz as just another slippery washington politician. but cruz is having none of that, attacking rubio on the air. >> the republican establishment's gang of eight amnesty plan. >> in 2013, cruz said this -- >> what would you do with the 11 million people who are here illegally? >> i think there probably could be a compromise on that. >> a compromise? >> if a path to citizenship was taken off the table. >> but now cruz is ruling out legal status for undocumented immigrants, now or in the future. >> i have never once supported legalization, i do not now and i will never support it. >> well, i'm joined on the phone by republican presidential

candidate donald trump. mr. trump, welcome back to "meet the press," sir. >> good morning, chuck. >> good morning. let me start with last night's democratic debate. not surprisingly, the only republican candidate i think that was said -- talked about by name was you. i want to play one particular quote that hillary clinton said last night and get you to respond to it. here it is. >> he is becoming isis' best recruiter. they are going to people, showing videos of donald trump insulting islam and muslims in order to recruit more radical jihadists. >> now, i know what you're about to say, no fact checker has been able to back up her claim on that. >> that's exactly correct. i was going to say that. exactly correct. nobody has been able to back that up. it's nonsense. just another hillary lie. she lies like crazy about everything. whether it's trips where she was being gunned down in a helicopter or an airplane, she's a liar and everybody knows that.

but she just made this up in thin air. >> but let me ask you this. if you knew your words were being used in recruitment videos -- because i've had intelligence officials worry about this. you're right, there's no evidence yet, but if you knew your words were being changed, would you change your language? >> no, because i think my words represent toughness and strength. hillary's not strength. hillary's weak, frankly, she's got no stamina, she's got nothing. >> let me stop you there. >> she couldn't even get back on the stage. nobody even knows what happened to her. it's like she went home and went to sleep. >> why do you keep going on this? >> she couldn't get back on the stage last night. i'll tell you why. because we need a president with great strength and stamina and hillary doesn't have that. we cannot have another bad president like we have right now. we need a president with tremendous intelligence, smarts, cunning, strength, and stamina. >> there's a lot of things i've

heard about hillary clinton, the idea, though, she did travel more than any secretary of state. it's a grueling job. this is somebody that has been on the national stage -- >> she's sitting on an airplane, chuck. >> so are you. >> chuck, she may have traveled a lot, but she didn't do the job because the entire world blew up around her. so she wasted a lot of time and energy and money and frankly she wasted a lot of lives because her policies were a disaster for the world. the middle east has blown up around her. her decisions were horrible. and hundreds of thousands of people have been killed because of her faulty decisions. >> i've heard you say that. hundreds of thousands of people. >> of course. >> where? what is this charge? >> how about libya? how about all the bad decisions? how about what's going on with the migration which was caused by her faulty decisions along with her president, her leader, our great president who is

grossly incompetent. how about now? you look at our president, how about the iran deal, one of the worst deals i've ever seen negotiated in my life, chuck. i mean, it's just bad deal, bad decision after bad deal after bad decision. >> why are you so comfortable praising vladimir putin? >> i'm not. i didn't praise him. he praised me. he called me brilliant. he said very nice things about me. i accept it. >> well, you called him a strong leader. >> he is a strong leader, what am i going to say he's a weak leader? he's making mincemeat out of our president. he is a strong leader. you would like me to call him a weak leader. he's a strong leader. i'm not going to be politically correct. he's got an 80% approval rating done by pollsters from i understand this country. it's not even done by his pollsters. he's very popular within russia. that may change. but i didn't say anything one way or the other. he came out with a very nice statement about me and i said that's very nice, i'm honored by it, and it would be very nice if we got along with russia, chuck. it's not a bad things. it's a good thing. he can not stand our president. he doesn't like president obama.

i think it would be a positive thing if russia and the united states actually got along and they could work to the mutual good of getting rid of isis and clean things up. right now we don't get along with him at all. >> but right now vladimir putin is the best ally iran has around the world and the best ally that assad has in syria. >> no. no. by making the horrible deal, one of the worst deals i've ever seen made in my entire life, giving them $150 billion, 24-day check periods which don't start for a long time after that, 24-day check periods, self-inspection, we don't get our prisoners back, our four prisoners, we don't get them back, we gave them $150 billion. we happen to be in its own sick and horrible way, we happen to have been one of the great allies of iran, if you want to know the truth. and by the way, just to add to that, we also handed them iraq on a silver platter.

we gave them iraq with the second-largest oil reserves in the world. they're taking over iraq as you speak to me this morning, so we gave them one of the best deals ever made and, by the way, they're taking that money now and they're giving it to russia and others where they're buying armaments which nobody ever reports. >> do you stick by the idea that the middle east would be more stable today with saddam hussein and ga ka if i gadhafi in power? >> 100%. 100%. there's not even -- is there even a doubt in your mind? and wunt have the migration and you wouldn't have people coming over to this country that we have no idea who they are and if i win they're going to have to go back because we have no idea who they are. >> and if you become president, do you let assad stay? do you let assad stay? >> well, you can't fight assad and isis at the same time. you have to fight isis first. and i don't say assad is good -- >> that's exactly what bernie sanders believes. >> well, that's okay. then i agree with him. it's okay to agree. i don't agree with him on much but if he says that, i'm okay

with it. let me tell you, you can't fight them both at the same time. i say assad is a bad guy. but we don't know who the rebels are who are fighting. every time we get involved with rebels, look at libya, look at these rebels, look what they did to our ambassador and those young men, those wonderful young men. every time we get involved in benghazi, i'm talking about, every time we get involved with rebels, the rebels, they call them the freedom rebels, always nice names, it ends up being far worse than the people there in the first place. so assad is not a good guy. but the people we're backing, a lot of people think we're actually backing isis. so what are we doing? we have to get rid of isis first. assad we can think about later on. >> let me ask you to respond to your friend jeb bush and what he had to say about you yesterday. take a listen to the full quote and i'll get you on the other side. >> just one other thing. i have to get this off my chest. donald trump is a jerk. [ laughter and applause ] i feel better now. i just -- i just -- i gave

myself therapy there. thank you for allowing me to do it. >> well, this has escalated between you and mr. bush. >> look, his people gave him that quote, you could see he was just saying, okay, okay i'm ready now to say it. jeb is a weak and ineffective person. he's also a low-energy person which i've said before but he's a weak and ineffective person. jeff, if he were president, it would be more of the same. he's got money from all of the lobbyists and all of the special interests that run him like a puppet. he's got 2% in the polls. i have 41% in the latest poll. he has 2%. he's going to be off the stage soon. he's an embarrassment to the bush family, and, in fact, he doesn't even want to use the bush name, which is interesting. jeb is an embarrassment to himself and to his family, and the republican party has essentially -- they're not even listening to jeb. jeb is saying that -- by the way, he's only saying that to

get mojo going but in the meantime i went up 11 points in the new fox poll. i went up 11 points after the debate and he went down two. >> very quickly, why has ted cruz caught you in iowa? we can dispute whether you're ahead by a point or two, whether he's ahead five or six, but ted cruz has caught you in iowa and he may beat you in iowa. >> i just got back from iowa last night. i was there for a long time yesterday, we had a tremendous rally, and, frankly, i think we're doing great in iowa. i don't know. i can't tell you who caught who. i think ted is doing well and i'm doing well. it looks like a two-person race, everyone else is way behind but i'm doing well with evangelicals who i love. i'm doing really well with every group. with the tea party groups, everybody. i can only speak for myself. we have a good team in iowa and i'll find out, let's see what happens on february 1. ted is doing well there and i'm doing well there, and if you look at the numbers in new hampshire, i'm through the roof there and in south carolina i'm through the roof there. i'm way ahead in those two

states. and ted and i are even, although the last three polls have me up in iowa, as you know. >> is it fair to say if you're not the nominee, you'd prefer ted cruz? >> no, i don't want to say anything about that. but ted has been very nice to me, very respectful. almost in every single instance he backs my ideas, and, you know, probably more so, and ben carson has been very nice also. i get along with -- believe it or not, i get along with a lot of the people on that stage, but ted has been very nice to me, yes. >> i think everybody right now except mr. bush. donald trump, i have to leave it there. have a merry christmas, happy new year. >> you, too. >> i look forward to a face-to-face right after the first of the year. >> merry christmas, happy new year to everybody and it's been an interesting time. thank you very much. >> yes, it has, sir. thank you. hugh hewitt, what did you think? >> i thought he was consistent with what he said on tuesday night. i like the fact that he took it to hillary clinton at the beginning. this is what republican candidates need to do. they need to point out the fact

she made up another video last night, she left libya in kay cross. . so i think donald trump showed the republicans how to take the campaign to hillary clinton and he did it very effectively. he has been caught in iowa. and i think that that will change the campaign but he did a very nice job right now. >> maggie, he's on the verge of discipline sometimes. at the debate, first half of the debate, he was very disciplined. second half of the debate he did let jeb bush get under his skin and it does bug him a little bit. he spent more time -- i was ready to go more and "i've got another thing to say about jeb bush." for somebody at 2% of the polls, he's got a lot to say. >> that is one of the interesting dynamics of the race. you have the race between marco rubio and ted cruz and then you have this trump/jeb fight. they represent the two polls on the issue which is most important within the republican party which is immigration and they are each sucking up each other's focus, if not the same polling energy. jeb bush came very close to getting donald trump to blow up

i thought in the debate and then backed off a little bit and yet he is clearly still to your point needling trump. >> this is one ferts unknowns. i'm going to take a quick pause. when we come back we'll turn to the democrats. they debated last night in new hampshire, but is bernie sanders running out of time? he joins me next. today people are coming out to the nation's capital to support an important cause that can change the way you live for years to come. how can you help? by giving a little more, to yourself. i am running for my future. people sometimes forget to help themselves. the cause is retirement, and today thousands of people came to race for retirement and pledge to save an additional one percent of their income. if we all do that we can all win. prudential bring your challenges® by day, they must stay warm. challenges to the feet. but by night, beautiful, smoother and ready to impress the other party animals.

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apologized to hillary clinton for his aide's breach of her campaign voter data but they clashed over their different approaches to the war against isis. >> we will not get the support on the ground in syria to dislodge isis if the fighters there who are not associated with isis but whose principal goal is getting rid of assad don't believe there is a political/diplomatic channel that is ongoing. >> i think we have got to get our foreign policies and our priorities right. the immediate -- it is not assad who is attacking the united states. it is isis. and isis is attacking france, and attacking russian airliners. the major priority right now in terms of foreign and military policy should be the destruction of isis. >> senator sanders joins me now. senator, welcome back to "meet the press," sir. >> thank you very much, chuck. >> i want to pick up on the isis comment. you said something else in here that caught my eye.

you were talking about, look, we could get rid of saddam hussein but that destabilized an entire region. we could get rid of gadhafi, but that created a vacuum for isis and we could get rid of assad tomorrow but that would create another political vacuum. let me ask you this -- would the middle east be more stable today with saddam, gadhafi, and assad all sort of strong men in charge? >> well, the answer is all three of those guys are terrible dictators and the goal is through a democratic process to get rid of terrible dictators. but the truth, the simple answer to your question is, i think yes, the region would be much more stable. the point here is that it is easy for a major power like the united states to get rid of somebody like saddam hussein. but the reason i opposed the war in iraq is i worried very much about the destabilization in the region and what would happen the day after. and, sadly, many of the concerns that i had turned out to be right.

similarly, in libya, gadhafi, terrible dictator, gotten rid of. right now isis is gaining ground in libya because of all the destabilization in the region and all of the turmoil. so i think what you need is coalitions, broad coalitions, to work together to create a process by which we remove people or by through democratic change. >> well, but the problem, as secretary clinton pointed out, is that isis and a lot of the people that you want in this coalition, you know, arab boots on the ground rather than u.s. boots on the ground, they're more concerned with assad than they are isis. and if our priority isn't to get rid of assad, they won't join this coalition. isn't that the catch-22 here, sir? >> look, i mean, that's a fair point, and no one denies this is a complicated issue. but here is my point -- what american leadership is about is to put as much pressure as we can and we have the leverage to do that. we have the leverage to bring

countries together to demand that they overcome their differences because right now the crisis facing this world is international terrorism, it is isis. assad, i want to see him go but that's a secondary issue compared to the destruction of isis. >> another topic, clinton made a pledge she was not going to raise taxes on anybody that makes -- any household $250,000 or below. you would not make that pledge. you said for $1.60 a week you'd get paid family leave. how much are taxes going to go up if you are president of the united states? can you say -- you've got a lot you want to pay for. can you give us a number about how much you're going to raise taxes? >> well, this is what i can say. we're going to do away with the corporate loopholes that allow major profitable corporations to stash their money in the cayman islands and not pay a nickel in some cases in federal income tax. that's $100 billion a year.

we'll impose a tax on wall street speculation to make sure public colleges and universities in america are tuition-free. we'll raise the estate tax for very, very wealthy people, the top two-tenths of 1%. but in terms of this issue you raised, i do disagree with the secretary. i believe the united states should join the rest of the world for paid family and medical leave. it will cost us $1.61 a week in an increase in payroll tax. i think that's a great investment. >> is that the only thing you plan on raising taxes on the middle class on? >> yes, that's right. look, we have seen a huge transfer of wealth from the top -- from the middle class to the top one-tenth of one percent, and i think it is appropriate to ask the wealthy and large corporations to start paying their fair share of taxes. >> let me move to the dnc issue. do you believe the dnc is treating you fairly? >> i think in this instance they did not. on two occasions now, chuck, in the last several months, breaches have occurred as a result of the incompetence of

dnc vendors. two separate vendors. then what happened is, you know, our -- first time our staff said, hey, we've got information from the clinton campaign. they did the right thing. they went back to the dnc and the vendor. second time some of our staff screwed up and i apologized for that. but to shut off our access to our own information, to significantly hinder our campaign, was a complete overreaction, and that was wrong. >> but you acknowledge you had staff whose essentially if they didn't rob the hillary clinton voter file, they certainly took pictures. >> hold it. chuck, chuck, chuck, let me just say this. let's be clear. >> okay. >> as a result of a breach caused by the dnc vendor, not by us, information came into our campaign about the clinton campaign. >> magically? wait. magically came there or you had a staffer that got it? >> yes, that's what -- >> you believe it accidentally

came in? okay. >> that's not disputed. there was a breach caused by the incompetence of the dnc vendor. that information came into our campaign. first time it came in our staff did the right thing. they said "we have information from the clinton campaign, we don't want this." and they went to the dnc. the second time a staffer or more, we don't know yet, we're doing that investigation, screwed up and we have fired that person. point is the dnc then proposed because of the initial screwup on their part to take away our access to our own information which significantly hampers our campaign. fortunately, that has been resolved. >> all right, senator sanders i'll leave it there. i know it was a late night, early morning. appreciate you coming on for a quick post-debate wrap. >> thank you very much. >> thank you, sir. for more reaction to last night's event, i'm joined by john podesta, chairman of hillary clinton's presidential campaign. mr. podesta, welcome back to "meet the press."

>> nice to be with you, chuck. >> let me ask you to respond to something secretary clinton said last night about donald trump and isis. fact checkers can't say it. she said definitively it is being used for propaganda. where do you have this information? do you have information that we don't have? >> chuck, your own network ran a piece citing the most important organization that follows isis on social media that said they're using social media and using donald trump as a recruitment tool, so that's what she was referencing, and that's the interpretation we made, and i think that if you look at what's going on in the middle east, the fact that mr. trump is on television over there all the time, the fact that isis is using him as a recruitment tool, i think it's a very fair charge. >> i understand what you're referring to -- >> he's becoming a very important recruitment tool for isis. >> i understand what you're referring to and there was

concern he would become an important recruitment tool. she said it definitively, very declaratively. and the piece you're referring to, it was about concern. >> i think if you go back and look at social media, if you look at what's going on, they are definitely pointing to mr. trump. >> so she stands by this comment? >> she does. >> let me ask you about senator sanders and him saying he's being treated unfairly at the dnc. do you accept his apology and believe he's telling the truth? >> i liked his apology last night a lot better than whey heard this morning. i think this was an egregious breach. this notion that somehow this information just kind of came into the possession of his campaign is completely inaccurate. the firewall went down, they made 25 separate searches, 24 occasions, they moved -- tried to move information into personal files that was information we had gathered, spent enormous amount of

volunteer effort to put together and these were very directed searches about who our supporters were, who the people who were least likely to support us were and they got caught. and they didn't respond well to the dnc, but he acknowledged it was an error. they fired their type data guy. he wasn't a 20-year-old kid, he was a 39-year-old ph.d.. that's a very senior position in the campaign. they just put two other people on suspension. >> so you don't think they're being -- you don't think he's being forthcoming? >> i don't think his campaign has been particularly forthcoming. i think senator sanders is a good guy and i think his campaign is a little bit not serving him well in this instance. i think they were clearly -- did something that was unethical and if you look, though, at other occasions they've created a culture where senator sanders says he doesn't want to run negative ads, then they run

negative ads. then he has to pull the negative ads. he says he doesn't want a super pac but a super pac is supporting him. so i think he has a problem in his campaign with the culture of that campaign and that was shown in this incident and i think the -- we're the victims of this, not the sanders campaign. >> all right, john podesta, campaign chair for secretary clinton, thanks for spending a little bit of time this morning. appreciate it. >> all right, chuck. in a moment. speaker of the house paul ryan on what he and president obama might actually get done in 2016. "meet the press" is brought to you by -- this is the one place we're not afraid to fail. some of these experiments may not work. but a few might shape the future. like turning algae into biofuel... ...new technology for capturing co2 emissions... ...and cars twice as efficient as the average car today. ideas exxonmobil scientists are working on to make energy go further...

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here's a little fun political note this christmas season. not only do liberals and conservatives think differently and vote differently, they shop differently, too. let me show you this. according to simmons research, here are the top ten places where conservatives shop. most stores are located in the south. here are the stores where liberals shop, mostly in urban areas. you'll notice not one store in the conservative list appears on the liberal list, nor one store on the liberal list appearing on the conservative list. a lot of this is geography but it shows you how we have totally sorted ourselves out. we'll be back in a moment with the speaker of the house paul ryan on what he thinks he and the president can actually get done.

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you want me to give up my two aleve for six tylenol? no. for my knee pain, nothing beats my aleve. ♪usic: "another sunny day" by belle and sebastian ♪ ♪ such a shame it's labeled a "getaway." life should always feel like this. hampton. we go together. always get the lowest price, only when you book direct at hampton.com welcome back. it it was an understatements to say there is conservative anger over the budget deal agreed to by the new speaker paul ryan. look at this headline from the "washington times." "white house declares total victory over gop in budget battle." needless to say, conservatives are unhappy that planned parenthood and the affordable

care act are funded, there are no restrictions on syrian and iraqi refugees and no measures blocking president obama's efforts to fight climate change. speaker ryan heard the criticism. i sat down with him on friday and he said he'd deal with planned parenthood in the new year and conservatives need to accept he had to make compromises to get a deal done. >> let me first say, this is divided government. and in divided government, you don't get everything you want. so we fought for as much as we could get, we advanced our priorities and principles, not every single one of them but many of them, and then we're going to pick up where we left off and keep going for more. >> i want to got through this interview without using the word "omnibus." >> you just said it. >> i know. because you one time said "omnibus equals a crap sandwich." when you were a member, not speaker. now that you're speaker, do you think member paul ryan was a little naive? >> everybody knows that i walked into the speakership seven weeks ago with this process already in place. with this cake already baked.

and so what i did is went to work to make the best of this process. to get some good wins for conservatives like lifting the oil export ban for the first time in 40 years. getting permanency on tax policy. getting good riders. limiting the irs so the irs can't meddle in politics. making sure we get more pro-life riders. those are wins we did get but the point i would say is this is the process i inherited. i fully own that, but it's also a process that will help us get to what we call regular order next year where we don't wind up with the same kind of situation next year. that's my hope and goal. >> what does it say though -- mark levin says "they betrayed you." referring to you. they betrayed your children and grandchildren. laura ingram "omni-bust." marco rubio is to jeb bush as paul ryan is to john boehner. that is not meant as a compliment as you might know. but harry reid said this. "it's a good product for the american people." so here you have harry reid praising you and conservative opinion leaders calling it betrayal.

>> look, none of this stuff gets to me. the results what are matters. we made good on our promises. we advanced good legislation and more importantly -- >> do you think this rhetoric is inappropriate? out of line? >> i don't really pay attention to it. people know who i am. >> some of your members do. >> the members know i am a movement conservative. they know i am a doer not a be-er. i want to make sure we have an agenda to take the american people that is rooted in our founding principles, this is what conservatives believe, to give the country a very clear choice and that's what we're excited and looking forward to in 2016. >> you were aggressive when it comes to pushing -- you were happy about this and the tax. but one of the criticisms from deficit hawks is $700 billion in permanent tax cuts, what you've done with obamacare is probably going to be these yearly extenders which if it becomes permanent, that's another $250 billion. they're not paid for. that's a trillion in tax cuts not paid for. >> i completely reject the premise of your point and

question which is -- >> you don't think tax cuts should be paid for? >> that's not what this is. these tax policies are in law. we want to keep them in law. by keeping taxes where they are that means we're keeping them where they are. that doesn't mean we're cutting taxes, we're keeping taxes where they are. because there's an artificial problem in the law that says these taxes will raise, not raising taxes is not cutting taxes. it's not raising taxes. so the point i would make is this is not a tax cut as much as tax certainty. >> let me move to your relationship with president obama. you've been in seven weeks. what is something you think you guy kansas city get done? >> criminal justice reform is one area. getting the appropriations process back on track. >> trade? >> we'll see when we can get that done but that's one thing. we're still looking at that trade agreement. >> that's something you will work with the white house on? >> i haven't made my mind up. i haven't read the entirety of the agreement yet but that's something conceivably that could be done. let me just say this, first of all, he's not on the ballot again.

there will be other people on the ballot again but i believe the president has succeeded in transforming this country in a direction that it was never supposed to go in the first place. >> you came down hard on donald trump on his proposals on muslims. you said "this is not conservatism. what was proposed is not what this party stands for and what this country stands for." in many ways you gave cover for other republicans to also criticize him. here we are two weeks later, ten days after he's done it. is donald trump more in step with the party than you are? >> i think it's a big-tent republican party. i don't think i'm out of step because i'm a known conservative. people know me as a very conservative person who's been advancing ideas like balancing budget, reforming welfare, entitlements, tax reforms, all the rest. there is room in this tent for a lot of people. it is a majority party. this nomination process is going to be healthy. i trust the republican primary voter to pick a nominee that can take us all the way to win the white house so we can fix this country. >> are you concerned about donald trump's rhetoric?

you were with that one. >> obviously i don't agree with what he said with respect to a religious test. i was speaking out for the first amendment. religious freedom, right of conscience, that's a fundamental right, a natural right and a constitutional right. and it's something we as conservatives should always forcefully defend. >> what is the process you'll go through to make that decision if you want to be speaker go into 2017? >> i haven't thought of that. >> is it family? whether a democrat wins the white house? a republican wins the white house? are you enjoying this job more than you thought? >> i am enjoying it more than i thought i would. i really haven't given it that kind of thought. i'm focused on the here and now. what i wanted to do was get congress working again, open up the process, get us back to running congress the way the founders intended it. >> most likely whoever is elected president is going to become immediately polarizing. we're living in times where it feels like this is -- is there anything you and president obama can do together that could lay the groundwork to just lessen it

a little bit? have you thought about that? have you thought about it? >> i discussed that with him. he's one of the most polarizing presidents we've ever had. >> isn't it going to be anybody at this point? >> i think leadership matters. leaders can unify and polarize. this president decided to polarize. >> but you are going to try to defund his signature health care law. for many progressives, that's a polarizing move. >> it's a law that is not workings. it's a law that's depriving people of choices. it's a law that's making families way double digit premium increases. >> i understand that argument but do you understand that is to some just as polarizing as what you're saying president obama is doing? >> yeah. >> my point is how do we get out of this cycle? >> that's a good question. i think we get out by being positive, offering a vision, offering solutions and focusing on what they do to make people's lives better. and to appeal to what unifies us as a country, as a people.

we should not play identity politics as conservatives or as liberals which is a political tactic that aims at speaking to people in ways that divide them from one another. that is wrong in my opinion. >> i take it that's why you spoke out against donald trump? >> and both sides do it and i think it's wrong. all it will do is polarize us further and we cannot have a unified country if we keep doing that. so this is why i think leaders should lead to unify. this is why i'm a jack kemp, ronald reagan, happy lawyer conservative. >> you can see more with my interview on our website, meetthepressnbc.com. when we come back, the big battle that emerged in the republican party this week, marco rubio versus ted cruz. is it about two men or two different views of what a conservative is? ders were rushi. ders were rushi. i could feel our deadlines racing towards us. we didn't need a loan. we needed short-term funding fast. building 18 homes in 4 ½ months? that was a leap. but i knew i could rely on american express to help me buy those building materials.

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what a show! panelists here. nbc and telemundo jose diaz-balart, maggie haberman, doris kearns goodwin and hugh hewitt, who has been the must-do for every republican presidential contender. doris, i want to go to this marco rubio/ted cruz fight because i'm -- i want you to go to teddy roosevelt for me a bit. are we seeing a splintering of what conservatism is when you're watching rubio v. cruz or is this just a personal spat? >> i mean, there's something that's personal in terms of two sons of immigrants the same age, the jealousy, that visceral sense, i'm the one, not you the one.

but clearly there's a big difference between their views on interventionism and nativism, their views on immigration. i mean, the thing you realize when you look at where we were right after romney lost and the republican party was talking about how are we going to get the hispanics back? rubio might be proud he was part of the gang of eight at that point and maybe cruz would have been saying, yes, i was for legalization but now it's shifted so much that the ground is taken away, but i do think the republican party as it was in 1912, in my time, is undergoing a major split. [ laughter ] and what happened then? a third party. what happened then? they split the vote and the democrats win. it's one of the times where the factions are not simply personal. trump is out there possibly in a personal way. but these two guys and other people represent real splits in the party. i'm not sure how they'll come back together again unless hugh can figure it out. >> jose, is this about immigration or authenticity? >> i think it's about trying to win the primaries and -- >> no!

>> i don't know if it has anything do with authenticity or based on reality. it's like hello from the other side. i don't understand how you can say "i'm for something" or "i am against something" when in 2013 you were on the record like cruz was about immigration and legalization. and you know what? i just wish people would define words more clearly. above and beyond the fact most people don't even read, except phil. but you know, amnesty, legalization, it's as though you throw these words out and you don't look at what it is you're trying to say because words don't matter, apparently. >> almost like it's on purpose. not defining those words particularly clearing. i think that this is about -- from cruz's perspective, it's about redefining immigration as a national security issue. and despite what he said in 2013, despite what we know, he has been trying to make the case he is running against washington and that is what he is doing to rubio. rubio is trying to say there is no real distinction between us

on this issue. frankly, there are a lot of issues where there is no distinction at all. the national security and immigration are the two. i do think politically the more that the distinction between the two men gets erased on immigration, i don't know if you disagree with me on this, i think it helps trumps. to the extent that cruz is less of a palatable alternative, that can only make trump stronger. >> i think it's helping chris christie. if you see the new movie "creed" creed goes after the english fighter again and again. rubio and cruz are killing each other and chris christie is standing over there, he's rocky, stallone character winning by not being in the fight. i'll also say about your paul ryan interview, i was very encouraged by that. mark levin is one of my closest friends, i read "the liberty amendments" but i think he's wrong. paul ryan is a new man beginning a turnaround, a workout, a difficult situation for the republican party and like cruz and rubio, young, energetic, full of ideas. so this fight can go on a long

time. we're winning. >> let me throw out something about whether what's going on with trump and then cruz and rubio. the december poll leader in 2012, 2008 and 2004, just to remind people everything can change quickly. in 2012 gingrich december poll leader. romney eventual nominee. clinton, december, obama nominee. dean, december, kerry, nominee. now trump is trying to redefine this whole thing as we discussed, but, you know, sometimes history matters. >> well in the end history -- of course! >> come on, that was a softball. >> in the end you want to hope that the eventual nominee slogs through new hampshire and iowa and learn something from the people. to go back to tip o'neill, he said you have to ask people for your vote. remember he had this neighbor and she didn't vote for him and he said why didn't you vote for me, and she said, well, you didn't ask me for my vote. so unless they're out there moving around, i don't think

they can win it nationally. they think they can. the debates have given them endless exposure. they have money enough that they don't need endorsements and momentum that comes from that. maybe we're in a different world. >> that's the thing. eventually -- >> none of us can say we're not. we're already in a different world than we were six months ago. >> eventually things change. >> another number, 71%. that's the percentage of latino vote president obama got. the republicans after that election did a mea culpa and said "let's talk about immigration in a respectful way." now what are we talking about? the only issue on immigration that we're hearing is build the wall, self-deportation which i've heard before, and the solution is never to have anything it do with the 11 million people. that is -- >> jose, in the debate last night -- >> words matter. >> in the debate last night mrs. clinton embraced libya and said "we have isis where we want them to be." it's a national security election. the republicans had a great debate and they're coming together. i clapped when donald trump said he is going to stand --

>> no regrets? >> no regrets. it means there will not be the third party that the professor referred to that would destroy the republican party. no regret what is sofer. >> national security? >> it is but i want to talk about the fact that hillary embraced libya last night, that's a volcano of terrorism and refugees. she owned it. she date stamped it last night and john podesta stood by that video. good weekend for the republicans. good week for the republicans. >> we shall see. don't go anywhere. we'll be back with end game in less than a minute. as we go to break, i want to share at least one fun moment from "snl" last night and the return of some familiar faces. >> that was a real fun election. i was paired up with that cute little john mccain fellow, may he paste in peace i'm guessing. >> he's alive. >> yes, i need to get back to 2008 and send a bunch of e-mails. >> no! [ laughter ] it's the story of america- land of the doers. doin' it. did it. done. doers built this country. the dams and the railroads. ♪john henry was a steel drivin' man♪

hmm, catchy. they built the golden gates and the empire states. and all this doin' takes energy -no matter who's doin'. there's all kinds of doin' up in here. or what they're doin'. what the heck's he doin? energy got us here. and it's our job to make sure there's enough to keep doers doin' the stuff doers do... to keep us all doin' what we do. his day of coaching begins with knee pain, when... this is brad. hey brad, wanna trade the all day relief of two aleve for six tylenol? what's the catch? there's no catch. you want me to give up my two aleve for six tylenol? no. for my knee pain, nothing beats my aleve.

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the panel is here for a little end game. let's go, you bought up the democratic debate a little bit, hugh. maggie, you heard hillary clinton has this one issue, fact check, and as hugh said, john podesta stood by it. this going to be a problem for her or not? >> i think it is potentially a problem. this seems to be the post-truth election in a lot of ways. >> i love that. >> by the way donald trump attacking hillary clinton on truthism -- >> she lies he said repeatedly. i don't know how much that will be a problem. i do think what she said about libya is going to be a problem.

>> she had a line, "we've got them right where we want them." i think things like that -- anything she does that link hearse to obama's foreign policy in the general election is a problem and i think more of a problem than what she said last night. >> but did you hear anything from bernie sanders that says "okay, he can take her"? >> the most important thing that hillary did last night, it's not that bernie didn't do well and he had a good night, too, but she showed such amazing confidence. that moment when should corporate america like you. "everybody should like me." think of the difference between 2008 when there was a question about "do you think you can catch obama because you're not likable." and she said "well, i feel hurt." ever since that big week when she did the debate well, when she had the benghazi hearing and biden got out of the race, she's got her internal confidence. i think when that's there, yes, these problems are going to come up, you have to worry about confidence becoming arrogance, but she is a better candidate now than she was six months ago. she's better than she was in '08. >> her business answer, i thought corporate america answer, she's worried about the

general, she isn't even thinking about bernie. she's going "i won't be an anti-business democrat. you won't put me in that hole." >> and the whole issue of interpretation. the moon is round, cheese is round, so therefore the moon must be made out of cheese. [ laughter ] >> where did you get that? >> that's a good one! >> you start interpreting other things, you get away from the facts. i wish that yesterday there would have been less talk about how long it takes people to go to the bathroom than it is to deal with issues of national security that includes immigration and every single day there are families being separated in this country because of lack of immigration reform and we don't know who they are and -- >> very quickly, let me ask you this, when do republicans say to themselves "our two leading candidates can't beat hillary clinton"? polls show that duonald trump ad ted cruz are the two weakest candidates against hillary clinton. jashtion >> i do believe the news of the morning is john podesta doubling down on the video. this is the second time hillary has created a video narrative that is a lie that will become the story through the christmas

dinner debate. i think trump can beat her. i think ted cruz can beat her, chris christie can crush her. >> you think donald trump can beat hillary clinton? >> she has a 60% -- >> did you hear his percentage? >> 60% untrustworthy. >> and donald trump i believe has the same number. >> 71%. and in spanish [ speaking spanish ] >> help me. >> that's massive and it may be more. >> i was going to say i'm thinking -- >> good for you. >> you can take the boy out of miami, you can't take the miami out of the boy. >> sounds like telemundo. >> let's lighten it up before we get to feliz navidad. it's five days until christmas and rumor has it if you ask santa for adele tickets you're probably going to wait for a long time. for her, that u.s. tour was sold out within an hour, leave manager fans unable to say

"hello" to their favorite chanteuse. so someone like you as well as the presidential candidates may not be seeing adele next year. but while i've been doing these sit downs with the contenders and the serious interviews on "meet the press," we've had fun for facebook. we've been asking them what their first concert was. wait until you see some of these answers. it is hilarious. watch. >> boy, the first concert was probably a country concert although i'm not a big country music fan. >> i went to a pete seeger concert a very long time ago. >> i mean, i like it, but i'm more of a linkin park kind of guy. >> when i was in junior high i went to men at work in concert. >> first concert i remember going to was the beatles a long time ago and they were terrific. >> james brown, 1966. say it loud, i'm black and i'm proud. >> drop the mic. [ laughter ] look at hugh. you're speechless. >> i got nothing. >> you got nothing? >> the beatles is cool? >> first concert?

>> i dreamed of being at a concert with elvis. i never got there. gyrating on the stage, i dreamed it 20 times. >> santana, 1971. >> nice! >> bob dylan, 1976 with joan baez and joni mitchell. >> two cool ones. >> madonna, 1990. >> do i have to admit mine? >> yeah. >> i worked concessions at neil diamond. >> all right! >> i worked concessions. the first concert i paid for was living color and rolling stones. >> that's a good one, too. >> i went there more for living color -- >> and look who's still giving concerts. >> exactly. [ laughter ] merry christmas, happy new year. >> thank you. >> that's all for today. we'll be back next week. have a very merry christmas and don't forget, if it's sunday two days after christmas, it will be "meet the press."

defiant, dangerous, and desperate. they are suspects who won't go down without a fight. whether riding down the road in a fiery truck -- >> don't even think about it. >> -- or jumping off a bridge. each in their own way, defied the rules, clashed with police, and paid the price. >> shots fired. "caught on camera: they fought the law."