mitchell reports" crowd control. how do you squeeze 20,000 donald trump supporters into a 1400 seat arena in bernie sanders' backyard? we're about to find out. regrets only. the vice president's candid admission about not entering the race. >> sure, i regret it every day but it was the right decision for my family and for me. and the commander in chief test. with the world in turmoil and markets tumbling, who is best fit to be the next president? we'll ask former cia director, former secretary of defense and former white house chief of staff, leon panetta in an msnbc exclusive interview. good day. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. on this first anniversary of the

attack on "charlie hebdo" and less than two months after the isis attack on paris that killed 130 people, the french capital today again under a terror alert. a man carrying a knife attempted to enter a paris police station earlier today, reportedly yelling allahu akhbar. he was wearing a vest, it turned out to be with face explosives and had a piece of paper with the isis flag. his identity has not been confirmed. this comes at a time when the isis threat looms larger than ever. the syrian conflict led to a flood of migrants to europe. iran is accusing saudi arabia of an air attack on its embassy in yemen, where they have been fighting a proxy war. tension already at a boiling point. what does this all mean for the u.s.? as we choose a new president? joining me for an exclusive interview, former secretary of defense, former cia director, leon panetta. his book "worthy fights" is now out in paperback. mr. secretary, welcome again.

>> nice to be with you. >> good to be with you. first let me ask you about republican attacks. we have seen a lot of republican criticism in the campaign on foreign policy. first of all, foreign policy as an issue in this campaign, there has been a lot written, a lot said about the syrian conflict that's led to the flood of migrants in europe. you write in "worthy fights" in particular that the president's decision, the obama administration's decision which led to potentially prolonging of the assad regime involved first of all withdrawing too quickly from iraq. you write that the white house was so eager to rid itself of iraq that it was willing to withdraw rather than lock in arrangements that would preserve our influence. weren't the republicans right about a precipitous withdrawal from iraq? >> well, look, i think we live in a dangerous world.

i think national security as a result of that is front and center and should be front and center, because we have got a number of threats that we're dealing with across the world. i think that there are a lot of issues that can be raised during a campaign, some right, some wrong, but the bottom line that i'd like to hear from both republican candidates as well as democratic candidates is how did we confront these challenges, how do we deal with them in a way that will fulfill the president's mission which is to defeat isis. that's something we haven't heard. >> well, in speaking about isis, isis also filled a vacuum in syria. you write in "worthy fights" that the president vacillated by failing to respond to assad crossing obama's red line on chemical weapons, that this sent the wrong message to the world that there was a weakness in the united states. is that a legitimate issue not only for president obama, but for secretary of state, former secretary of state hillary clinton?

>> well, i think the reality is that in dealing with these very tough issues in the middle east, that it's not always -- it's not always easy, obviously, to come up with easy answers. but at the same time, i thought a particular concern that i had is that once the commander in chief draws a red line and says that we are not going to allow syria to conduct chemical warfare, that once that line is drawn, whether you agree or disagree with that line, once it's drawn and once that line is crossed that the commander in chief has a responsibility to act, and i think by not acting, i think it sent the wrong kind of message to the middle east and to both our allies and to our enemies out there that america was not prepared to stand by its word. i think that was a mistake. >> it's a mistake that we are

still paying a price for in our relationship with saudi arabia. they certainly did not listen to us when we pleaded with them not to kill the shia cleric just this past week. >> the danger i see right now is that in many ways, there's a vacuum in the middle east as we confront isis, an enemy that clearly has engaged in acts of war and threatens our security. i think isis is a clear and present danger to the security in this country. i think it is very important for us as the united states to provide leadership in bringing those traditional allies back together again to bringing saudi arabia and uae and egypt, israel and others, back into a coalition so that we can confront not only isis, but also the influence from iran. i think that is a necessary step that need to be taken. >> did we miss a key opportunity early on in this administration

to arm the syrian rebels and try to counter assad and not prevent the vacuum that isis then filled in syria? >> i thought it was important, obviously, look, syria is chaos. iran's involved, we had a number of opposition groups involved, we have assad involved, we have the russians involved -- >> it's worse chaos now. >> it is incredible chaos. it's tough to try to figure out just exactly how we approach that. but the key frankly is that we have to be able to confront isis. isis is the main threat. isis controls territory in syria, isis controls territory in iraq. it is very important for us through our special forces, through our advisors and the president at least has the basic elements in place that we need, what needs to be done is to intensify those efforts so that we regain those territories so that isis does not have the kind of territory where they can

train and then conduct attacks on this country. that's something we need to intensify if we're going to be able to do what the president said which is to defeat isis. >> is it still possible? >> i think it is possible. i think that it's very important for us to increase our air attacks, to be able to deploy special forces, to provide the trainers and advisors and to build the coalition, the ground troops we need from our arab friends there so that we can provide an overall military strategy which will, in fact, fulfill the mission that the president has defined for this country. the president has said we have to defeat isis. i think we need a military strategy that will do that job. >> boots on the ground? >> i think, you know, the fact is we do have boots on the ground, with special forces, with trainers and advisors. i think we ought to be very clear with the american people that people who are in those

positions have to engage in combat, because they have to defend themselves in those positions. we ought to be honest about the risks that are involved. we ought to be honest about the costs that are involved. but the fact is, if we want to protect this country from a potential isis attack and mark my words, i think isis has the potential to conduct a paris type attack in this country, and because of that capability, because of that clear and present danger, i think we have a responsibility to do everything we can to defeat that enemy. >> you think that they are that operational? >> i think they are that operational. i think we saw what they did in paris. we saw what happened in san bernardino. we know they are in touch with a number of potential lone wolves in this country. the fbi has made that clear. i don't think we ought to underestimate the potential for isis to conduct another attack in this country, and that's the concern. we've got to deal with that danger. it is -- we don't have time to

kind of sit by and hope that somehow, these issues will resolve themselves. we have got to make sure that we do everything necessary to protect this country. >> north korea, just this week, another nuclear test. now, it's been discounted by the white house and other experts that it was a hydrogen bomb, but even though it wasn't most likely a hydrogen bomb, it was a nuclear weapon by this untested young leader who is clearly pushing headlong ahead with both missile and nuclear program development. why isn't china doing more to restrain north korea and why haven't we pressured china more? >> we were talking about threats in the world and clearly, isis, the middle east, russia, china, north korea, the threat of cyberattacks, we are living in a very dangerous world. north korea by virtue of this

test they just conducted, whether it was a hydrogen bomb or not, the fact that they conducted a nuclear test tells us how dangerous they are. this is a country that is a rogue nation. they have a very unpredictable leader. yet they now have nuclear arms. our approach has always been through deterrence, try to make clear that if they try to do anything, that we can confront them in war and beat them in war, try to contain them, but to also bring pressure on china. i do think that more pressure needs to be brought on china to play a very important role here in trying to control what north korea is doing. they're the ones that have the largest influence in north korea. they're the ones that have to be able to ensure that north korea does not do something reckless as we worry about in north korea. but i think the key there is yes, deterrence, containment, sanctions, but also pressuring china to put as much pressure as

they can on north korea to abide by international rules. they are an outlaw nation right now. that's what is fearful in that part of the world. >> we have described, you have described a world in crisis, everywhere we look. who is best qualified to be commander in chief as we elect a new president? >> you know, i've said the next president of the united states has two principal responsibilities. one is to break the grid lock in this town because i think one of the greatest threats to national security is the dysfunction in washington. so the ability to govern, the ability to bring both parties together in order to govern, that is a huge responsibility for the next president. secondly, they have to be a world leader. he or she has to be a world leader that can deal with all of these threats that we just discussed. so it is extremely important that whoever's elected president

of the united states have the ability to govern but also have the ability to provide world leadership. my view is that hillary clinton probably has the best credentials in terms of those two areas that i discussed. but clearly, other candidates on the republican side have to show that they are willing to address those two issues as well. >> you were a republican when you started out in public life. you even served in the nixon administration. although you have been part of clinton world and part of the democratic party for many, many years. are you officially endorsing her? >> i have endorsed hillary clinton and i have also helped provide advice on defense and foreign policy issues. i know her, i work with her, i think that what this country needs at a very dangerous time is responsible leadership in the real world, not a fantasy world but in the real world. she is somebody who has that

experience and for that reason, that's why i support her. >> you support her, but all of these problems we have just talked about got worse on her watch, as well as on your watch. the growth of isis, the syrian civil war, the withdrawal from iraq. so why is she qualified to be commander in chief? >> i think she's qualified to be commander in chief because she understands the challenges that are there. she understands the world we live in. she understands the complications of it. of course, look, going back to republican administrations as well as democratic administrations, there is a responsibility for both the good things that happened as well as the bad things that happened. but in the end, the real question is does someone have the ability to be able to deal with other world leaders, to be able to represent our national security interests in dealing with those countries and has the credibility to be able to engage in that kind of world. and that is critical at a time when we are facing the kind of threats we're facing now.

>> today a new report, i.g. report, inspector general's report out of the state department is slamming the state department's initial handling of outside inquiries into the private server, the hillary clinton server. what about the private server and the lack of judgment that has been alleged at having conducted a business officially only on a private server without also using state department e-mails? >> well, you know, look, as you know, andrea, i'm not somebody who has done the e-mail thing. i didn't do e-mails as cia director and i didn't do it as secretary of defense. i thought it was important to deal with people on an individual basis. but clearly, people deal in e-mails, clearly people deal in that kind of communication. i think it is important that when you're dealing with sensitive matters, that you have to abide by rules here in terms of how do you that, and she's admitted the problems that she's encountered in that. i think she's been able to explain it.

look, the american people are not going to vote for president based on e-mail situation. i think the american people are going to vote for somebody based on their ability to provide leadership in this country. >> donald trump has been going after not only hillary clinton, but bill clinton now, saying that he is fair game as a surrogate for his wife for his past indreiscretions. do you agree? >> in the world of politics there are no lines anymore in terms of what candidates say, particularly with trump and the things that he's been saying. >> you were white house chief of staff during that period. >> you know, i have been chief of staff, i have served presidents of the united states, i know, ni know the challenges that are involved in that job. i really do think that it would help the american people and help all of us if more of these candidates instead of going after personal attacks could really talk about the substance of the challenges. >> but in this case, do you think donald trump has a point, that it's fair game if she's

going to make women's issues an issue and if he's a surrogate for her, is it fair game to go after hillary clinton as well as bill clinton for his past record? >> you know what, i would like to hear from donald trump a little bit of the substance of what the hell he's talking about. he's made a lot of comments about how easy it is to deal with isis, how easy it is to deal with a lot of the challenges that are out there. but i haven't heard the substance behind it. i think that's what we ought to be hearing more about. you know, personal issues, other issues, i know campaigns are going to get involved in those kinds of debates but from the perspective of the american people, i think they need to hear what kind of substance, what kind of details, is the president going to actually provide as president of the united states. that's something we're not getting enough of. >> one person who is not running for president but yesterday expressed his regrets for having decided not to run is joe biden.

let me play that for you. >> i regret it every day, but it was the right decision for my family and for me, and i plan on staying deeply involved. we've got two good candidates. >> you know joe biden and served with him for so long. did he make the right decision? >> you know what, joe biden's a good friend and i think a good guy and somebody who has been dedicated to public service all of his life. i'm sure he would have loved to have been president of the united states and run for that job, but for all of the challenges that he had to confront, particularly with the loss of his son, i think joe made the right decision. and hopefully we'll continue to benefit from his leadership because he really is committed to trying to do the right thing for this country. >> you're here in washington because you will be testifying to the benghazi select committee tomorrow. you have already testified to other committees, but to this

committee, and there's a new movie coming out, "13 hours" and it's about to be released. it is accusing the cia operatives on the ground of being ordered to stand down and not go to the rescue in time. the suggestion is that if not for that order to stand down, that chris stevens and the others might have been saved. first of all, you were at the pentagon at the time, i believe. was there any order to stand down that you know of? >> absolutely not. you know, i'm sure there are going to be movies and books and there will be all kinds of theories that will be presented, but from my experience and from the role that i played as secretary of defense, there was never any order to stand down. on the contrary, the whole effort was to do everything possible to try to save lives. >> there's also a report, several reports, that the pentagon made an offer of a rescue effort, military effort

to the state department and that someone, the suggestion is hillary clinton, said no, thanks, we don't need the help or stand down or stand back. was there any effort by the pentagon to intervene that the state department rejected and would she have even been in the role? >> i'm not aware of any such effort at all. as a matter of fact, after meeting with the president, i immediately went back and we made decisions to deploy forces to put them in place to be able to go in and provide help to those involved and we in fact put forces in place. the problem was that attack ended quickly and because of time and distance, we never had a chance to get there. this is a tragic event. tragic in a number of ways. but most importantly, it's tragic because it's now become a political football that unfortunately, i think doesn't do service to all of those that were committed to trying to protect lives. >> former secretary leon

panetta, great to see you, sir. thank you very much. the book is "worthy fights" now out in paperback. if all of that wasn't enough, world financial markets have been in real trouble again today. this morning's stock trading in china was halted for the second time this week. that sent wall street into a tailspin. u.s. stocks down around 1.5% this morning. then managed to regain about half of those losses. some of that may have been due to the strong jobs report, unemployment applications fell by 10,000 last week. tomorrow, we will get a better picture when we see the december unemployment report. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ why fit in when you were born to stand out. the 2016 nissan altima has arrived.

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and you're looking at live pictures. that's pocohontas, iowa where

ted cruz is kicking off the fourth day of a 28-county swing that's been overshadowed nationally by new questions surrounding his citizenship raised by donald trump. now also echoed by a well known republican colleague and sometime adversary who has had his share of squabbles with the texas senator. >> i know it came up in my race because i was born in panama, but i was born in the canal zone which is a territory. barry goldwater was born in arizona when it was a territory when he ran in 19 -- >> you were born on a base, weren't you? >> yeah, a u.s. military base. that's different from being born on foreign soil. so they -- i think there is a question. i'm not a constitutional scholar on that but i think it's worth looking into. i don't think it's illegitimate to look into it. >> this week, donald trump had called senator cruz's birthplace a problem. today, trump tweeted his support for his primary rival, saying it was a very wise move that ted cruz renounced his canadian

citizenship 18 months ago. senator john mccain is certainly no friend of ted. that's trump's tweet. joining me now, nbc's katy tur ahead of donald trump's big rally there this evening and nbc's kristen welker will join us by phone on her way to a bill clinton event in iowa. first to you, katy tur, i know burlington, vermont. you are in this beautiful town, hometown of bernie sanders. there is no way that 20,000 people cannot only squeeze into that arena but squeeze into burlington, vermont. what are they going to do? >> reporter: it's not an arena, even. this is a small theater, 1400 person theater and they have given out, as you said, 20,000 free tickets. the campaign has told local officials here that they expect 6500 to show up, that 6500 have confirmed that they are coming. still, that is a lot of people for a very small venue. as you imagine, the town is not happy about it. the police chief is not happy

about it and the mayor isn't happy about it. the police chief telling local papers today that if this were a fish concert, because this is burlington, vermont, they would have shut it down. they would have said no way if 20,000 free tickets were handed out to a concert but this is a political event for the public good, for the public's information because an election season is coming up and that's why they're not shutting it down. also, it is very cold out here. it's 22 degrees and they are not expecting that many people to be as rowdy as they may have been if this were a summertime event. but still, 20,000 people in burlington, vermont coming out for donald trump, even that headline alone is good news and a victory for the campaign, regardless of the controversy. >> well, in fact, katy, they were still selling tickets online and they're not selling, they're promoting tickets online, even you heard rachel maddow last night after they had already passed this 20,000

point, so they were going full steam ahead. what is their point in trying to overflow this town and there are going to be protesters as well. >> reporter: this is a blue state. for them to say that we can get 20,000 people interested in coming to see us, that is them saying that even in a state that we aren't supposed to win, that republicans don't win, we have support and we can gain attention, and this is right in bernie sanders' face, right in his front yard, his backyard, it's where he lives, it's where he started. if we are able to do it here, we can do it anywhere. that's the message the trump campaign is trying to give. >> katy tur, thank you very much. with ted cruz now in iowa, is hallie jackson. what about this birther issue and ted cruz? how seriously are they taking that? >> reporter: we have new reporting on this. just to give you a sense first of all of why i'm talking at a golf whisper, because we are by the cash register here, ted cruz is speaking up front.

take a look, you can see the packed room. that's why we're not talking too loudly. but you talk about the idea of this mccain issue and i can tell you that the campaign seems to be first of all, unsurprised about this. second of all, fairly unconcerned. there's a sense that this is not resonating with voters, this is not resonating with caucus goers here in iowa, and that this is an issue that will potentially blow over in the next few days. so that's sort of the sense of the mccain issue. broader, when you look at the broader strategy in iowa, they are really trying to prove to iowans that they have the capacity to be organized and to go all the way past this early state. so it's retail stops like this, ted cruz is about halfway through his 28-stop tour of iowa, he's on i believe this is stop 14. we may have lost count. but that's about where we are. but the proof that the campaign wants to get out is that ted cruz has the money and the organization to compete in these not just iowa but some of the states that vote in march like the s.e.c. primary states as well. >> i see congressman steve king

right on his shoulder there which is really good endorsement. for conservative iowans. thanks. >> reporter: let's talk about that. steve king is now the national chairman for the ted cruz campaign and this is a way for ted cruz to shore up his immigration bona fides given king's position on this. >> hallie jackson right on the scene again, thank you very much. and we'll be right back with kristen welker, before we leave iowa, she's with bill clinton. where exactly in iowa is bill clinton? >> reporter: he's in cedar rapids right now. i have been talking to his aides, they say this isn't going to be an attack dog speech. we will hear a very similar speech to one that he delivered on monday. we were both there at that event in new hampshire. he sort of gave this robust defense for why he thinks hillary clinton is the best person to be president right now. what we didn't hear from him was a response to some of those attacks that i heard you talking about earlier in the hour from

donald trump, those attacks against his past transgressions, the clintons have been loathe to engage with donald trump over that. they don't think it helps them in any way, shape or form. and this comes, i might say, on a day where secretary clinton's getting a big boost. she has the endorsement from the cdc chair, g.k. butterfield of north carolina. so the clinton campaign feeling very good. at the same time they tell me they expect the polls to tighten here in iowa. this is a critical state for secretary clinton. of course she lost back in 2008, it derailed her presidential campaign. she came in third. they can't afford a loss this time around. that's why you not only see secretary clinton, but former president bill clinton really focusing on this key state. >> of course, if they do run into trouble in iowa and even in new hampshire, the congressional black caucus endorsement critical as they head south to south carolina. thanks, kristen and hallie and katy before that.

make sure you watch all in with chris hayes tonight live from burlington, vermont for complete coverage of that donald trump rally up in vermont. up next, supreme court scuffle. a judge in alabama, no stranger to controversy, tries to buck the high court on the issue of same sex marriage. at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like reunions equal blatant lying. the company is actually doing really well on, on social media. oh that's interesting. i - i started social media. oh! it was my...baby. hey pal? you ready? can you pick me up at 6:30? ah... (boy) i'm here! i'm here! (cop) too late. i was gone for five minutes! ugh! move it. you're killing me. you know what, dad? i'm good. (dad) it may be quite a while before he's ready,

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i'm either away from my desk or on another call. please leave a message and i'll get back to you just as soon as i'm available. thank you for patience at this busy time." join princess cruises for stargazing with discovery at sea. book now for savings up to $1,000 per stateroom plus up to $600 free onboard spending money. call your travel consultant or 1-800-princess. princess cruises. come back new. seven months after the supreme court's land:mark ruling legalizing same sex marriage, new confusion on the issue in alabama. the state supreme court chief justice roy moore has ordered officials to enforce alabama's same sex marriage ban and to stop issuing marriage license toss same sex couples, arguing that the supreme court's decision only applies to the four states specifically involved in that case, not to alabama. today, hillary clinton weighed in with a personal tweet, saying

marriage equality is the law of the land. nbc news justice correspondent pete williams joins me now. we saw the upshot in kentucky but this alabama case, what is the precedent here as the court -- when the court rules, isn't that considered a precedent for the whole country? >> sure. this is not a ruling from the alabama supreme court. this is the chief justice there saying he's doing this in his administrative capacity to end confusion but he appears to have caused more confusion. here's the deal. in march, the alabama supreme court upheld a state's ban on same sex marriage. then you have the ruling from the u.s. supreme court in june striking down those bans, and what the chief justice says is well, until the alabama supreme court finally rules again on this, the probate judges have to follow the state supreme court's ruling. what he ignores in this order is the fact that there's a federal judge in may who also struck down the state's ban even before the supreme court ruled and ordered all the probate judges there to give licenses to same

sex couples. then in october, a federal appeals court said that the alabama supreme court ruling earlier was a dead letter. none of that is in judge moore's order. now, several of the probate judges there, the officials who issue the licenses in alabama, say they are just going to ignore this and go ahead and issue licenses. others are saying now we can't. so rather than ending confusion he seems to have caused more of it. but i can't imagine that this is going to last very long. >> full employment for the lawyers in alabama. thank you very much, pete williams. still to come, dangerous waters. residents in flint, michigan trying to wade through the warnings about the lead in their drinking water. i'm here at my house, on thanksgiving day and i have a massive heart attack right in my driveway. the doctor put me on a bayer aspirin regimen.

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now to the toxic water scandal in flint, michigan. accusations that children are testing with dangerously high levels of lead that can lead to permanent brain damage because of decisions made by city officials in flint to save money on the water supply. nbc's stephanie gosk has the story. >> reporter: everyone who drank the water, an entire u.s. city, is at risk. >> it's just crazy. >> reporter: the most vulnerable in flint are children like april's, 1-year-old kevin has double the level of lead considered acceptable. >> i can't do nothing about it but continue to buy bottles of water with money that i do not have. >> reporter: a water quality expert tells nbc news that just $100 a day was all it would have taken to avoid this crisis. the flint river has a high salt content so it corroded the pipes that it flowed through and lead from those pipes leached into the system. experts say that treatment from the beginning could have corrected much of the problem but city officials never did it. the problem began in april 2014,

when city leaders switched from detroit's water supply to save money. in february, tests showed alarming levels of lead at a home in the city. other people worried they were at risk, too. nbc news obtained an e-mail from july. the governor's former chief of staff wrote to health officials. these folks are scared and worried about health impacts and they are basically getting blown off by us. there were assurances internally that all was fine. that was what the public was being told, too. >> anyone who is concerned about lead in the drinking water in flint can relax. >> reporter: this pediatrician did not relax. she launched an independent study and discovered that lead levels in children had doubled since the water switch. and in some areas of town, the levels tripled. >> in five years, these kids are going to have problems with special education, they will have cognition problems. >> reporter: state and local leaders questioned her science publicly. but would later apologize just

before the water was switched back to a detroit source in october. lead levels are still high. grandmother jackie pemberton doesn't want to wait for the fix. she wants to move out. do you miss your bath? but like most families in this struggling post-industrial town, there are no options. >> who's going to buy our house? >> reporter: fixing the water is only part of the problem. damage to the children will last a lifetime. stephanie gosk, nbc news, flint, michigan. >> joining me now from flint, nbc's john yang. john, the governor, the mayor came out. what did the governor have to say about this crisis? >> reporter: well, they tried to present a united front, talked about moving forward, spending millions of dollars to replace 15,000 lead water lines here in flint, but the governor is facing a lot of questions about how this came to be. the decision to switch to the flint river as the water source was made by a state-appointed emergency manager here. this governor's own task force

lays a lot of the responsibility for this problem on the department of environmental quality, the state's department of environmental quality. they say they ignored the mounting concerns by residents and the reports of high lead levels. now, the things they talked about today are things about fixing the infrastructure but the other big problem is the human problem. as you say, lead is especially dangerous to young children. they could have behavioral problems and cognitive problems in the years ahead. andrea? >> truly a terrible scandal. thank you very much, john yang in flint, michigan. coming up, he's for hillary. moments ago right here on msnbc, former bill clinton chief of staff, leon panetta said it's time the former first lady and secretary of state return to the white house. why, next, given all the crises on her watch.

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i have endorsed hillary clinton and i've also helped provide advice on defense and foreign policy issues. i know her, i work with her, i think that what this country needs at a very dangerous time is responsible leadership in the real world, not a fantasy world, but in the real world, and she is somebody who has that experience and for that reason, that's why i support her. >> leon panetta, former chief of staff to president bill clinton, explaining why he believes it's time for another clinton to be commander in chief despite all the problems or maybe because of those problems right now. joining me for our daily fix, chris cillizza, msnbc contributor and founder of the "washington post" fix blog, and "washington post" political correspondent, anne gearan. chris, i know you have had an opportunity, as have i, to view a donald trump instagram video, attack video on a very personal

level against hillary clinton and also some of her top campaign vice-chair as well by implication through her husband. let me play it and then chris, you can talk about it. i know you are preparing to write about this. >> right. >> women's rights are human rights and human rights are women's rights. once and for all. let's keep fighting for opportunity and dignity. >> chris, that just throws everything into one trashbag here. >> that is even for donald trump. >> it's just a drive-by. >> right. even for him, this is a significant upping of the ante, right, the video opens with a picture of bill clinton and monica lewinsky. you sort of know where you're headed. overlaid on that in the beginning is that very famous line from hillary clinton taken from a speech in 1995 in china

about women's rights being human rights. look, we have talked about this before, including yesterday. i continue to think that this is a very smart thing for donald trump politically speaking to do in a republican primary. there's a lot of republicans who think yeah, give it to the clintons, this is what they deserve. i don't know that you can go too far as it relates to the clintons in a republican primary. for all of the lack of a better word, wacky things donald trump has done strategically, many of which have worked for him, this actually seems to be a sound strategic decision in a purely political sense. >> msnbc and nbc news have reached out to the clinton campaign for reaction to this, with leon panetta clearly a surrogate for her. i asked about the generic issue of donald trump going after the clintons on personal issues from the past and this is what he had to say earlier this hour. >> you know what, i would like

the hear from donald trump a little bit of the substance of what the hell he's talking about. you know, he's made a lot of comments about how easy it is to deal with isis, how easy it is to deal with a lot of the challenges that are out there, but i haven't heard the substance behind it. i think that's what we ought to be hearing more about. >> you and i have been out, anne, covering hillary clinton since she declared her candidacy last spring, and we have only seen this issue come up twice, both times by republican hecklers, really. once in december, once just the other day, in crowds, lot of women's events. does this seem to be hurting her with the women whom she's campaigning for in the primary elections? >> not appreciably. from a campaign standpoint this is something they expected, predicted, knew would happen at some point. exactly how the issue is raised,

by whom and in what context, they didn't know. it came up the last time she ran, they knew it would come up again. where, as chris said, donald trump appears to be doing something strategically smart here is to turn around hillary's argument that she is the best advocate and fighter for women. what he's doing there is saying really, you have this long-standing potential hypocrisy which he of course says is a real hypocrisy and from her perspective, it's something that has been put to rest. but he's raising a question, he's letting sort of -- he's opening the door to further questions about whether she is really kind of as truthful and firm an advocate as she presents herself to be. >> we are in a whole new world here. you go back to campaign ads that were bought, paid for, aired,

willie horton, there have been attack ads for time immemorial in modern campaigning but this instagram is just out there and chris cillizza, this isn't just bill clinton's past. you've got, you know, anthony weiner and bill cosby thrown in there in a big group shot with a lot of other political figures, chuck schumer. it's just find a picture and throw it in there, you don't know where it's from or what context it is. >> the other piece of sort of the difference between a campaign ad that you put let's say $1 million or $500,000 to air in new hampshire and instagram is this cost donald trump, i mean, $100 to get the photo, if that, and i looked at it just before i came on. it had been up for ten minutes, it had already been liked almost 4,000 times. that will triple or quadruple and his capacity, we just showed it on this air, his capacity to

drive the conversation in ways that he wants to via social media, whether that's tweets, whether that's instagram videos, all for a very, a minimal at best cost. he gets how this cycle works, i think whether you like him or don't like him, you got to grant him that. >> timing exactly as bill clinton is about to appear at his campaign event in iowa so he knows the timing precisely. thanks, chris cillizza for the context and of course, anne gearan, thank you. we'll be right back.

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thanks for being with us. follow us online on facebook and on twitter. chris hayes in burlington, vermont tonight. "msnbc live" up next. "hi, this is jennifer. i will be out of the office until monday and won't be checking voicemail during this time.

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we are looking currently at the stock market and seeing an influx of selling. right now the market down by 243 points. stocks took this plunge at the opening bell this morning. now, they are starting to rebound, flatten out. it's all about worries over china's economy and dropping oil prices globally. we will get more details on what's happening on wall street in a moment. we do want to start the hour with politics, where the birther fight doesn't seem to be ending between donald trump and ted cruz. donald trump digging the blade in a little further this morning, offering quote, free legal advice to cruz via twitter, saying that the texas senator should go to court and seek a declaratory judgment. >> you go in seeking the decision of the court. without a court case. you go right in. you go before a judge, you do it quickly. it can go quickly.