way. they are going to have to pry him out of there if he is to go. >> thank you all. we'll be back tomorrow with more mtp daily. msnbc will have live coverage of donald trump in sanders country starts at 7:00 p.m. tonight. with all due respect to donald trump, do you really want to be picking a fight with sam jackson? >> got room for one more? >> you are under arrest, my lord. >> all day every day you will be swinging a sledgehammer. >> do you ever want to see me again? do you ever want to see me again. >> turning big rocks into little rocks. >> and you will know my name is the lord when i lay my vengeance upon thee. >> everybody listen. we have to put a barrier between

us and the snakes. >> hold on to your butts. ♪ hold on to your butts sports fans in our special snakes on the plane edition. trump versus sanders, trump versus the clintons and rubio versus christie. first cruz versus canada. in the past 24 hours a bipartisan pile on. said cruz's eligible was worth looking into and a legitimate question. today with an interview cruz shot back at senator mccain charging his comments were driven by a hidden political

motivation skplmpt tw i think it is no surprise to anybody that john mccain is going to be supporting marco rubio in this election. >> he hasn't announced that. you are predicting? >> their foreign policies are almost identical. it is no surprise that he is trying to do what he can to help the candidate that thee is favoring. >> on the legal question is it possible that this should a judge might find that to be a difference? >> the legal question is straightforward and clear. >> for what it is worth the man who mccain is supposedly endorsing marco rubio refused to chime in and blame canada saying i don't think it's an issue. mark, you spent the day with cruz in iowa. is this birther helping him or hurting him? >> i'm here. we are going to see senator cruz speaking here in just a little

bit. throughout the day reporters have tried to ask him about it. i got to sit down with him and he answered he is clearly a little bit frustrated and he knows because no judge has ruled on it it is not 100% clear that he is in the right. he is a little frustrated with the question. this is allowing him to criticize the establishment of his party. i think for the people he is trying to reach, he is trying to get the support from i think he is fine in this position. >> the first thing is it is easier for him if it were just the establishment of the republican party and nancy pelosi who were taking him on. he has rand paul making jokes about how he is qualified to be the prime minister of canada and donald trump raising questions. i think this is not a full blown crisis for cruz because of legal uncertainty and because it is engulfing his campaign in a moment where he would like to be driving his own message i think it is hurting him more than it

is helping him. >> i would be stunned if a judge has to rule on this. i would be stunned if a judge ruled that cruz is not eligible to be president. it is a political dispute. he is a front runner and say you are not eligible. >>. >> donald trump, of course, helped ignite the birther on slot against cruz. today the republican front runner shifted his attention back to former president bill clinton. apparently unprovoked trump posted this video online earlier today. >> women's rights are human rights and human rights are women's rights once and for all. let's keep fighting for opportunity and dignity. >> so that's pretty rough stuff. as washington post wrote earlier today the clinton campaign long

expected ghosts of the 1990s to return and haunt the former first lady. so while campaigning for his wife today in iowa here bill clinton would not engage when asked about trump's criticisms of his past. this time the questions came from nbc's kristin welker. trump said as recently as a couple days ago that he wasn't going to take on bill clinton and was directly provoked on the issue of women's right wheres does the issue stand? >> it is a little mystifying. it seems unprovoked. we don't know what caused trump to go off. there are a lot of situations where we don't know. this is -- you just said it was rough stuff. putting bill cosby into that instagram video, making that kind of comparison, it is in the air, but i'm not sure that in the -- in the long run i'm not sure this helps donald trump at

all. in the shorter run i think some wayathize story got some amount of sympathy for hillary clinton. >> you can argue it is great for the clintons this is out now. this is one case where i have no idea. i think trump is putting stuff on the table, anthony weiner, bill cosby that no other republican would have done. it is out there in a way that it may define the topic down so that others will bring it up. i don't think the clintons are happy about this at all. it does beg the question of can they keep turning the other cheek if trump keeps raising it in. >> the biggest question is whether bill clinton can keep turning a cheek. he has been out so far but if you remember in 2008 his discipline has its limits and there is some point that trump's strategy must be to try to taunt clinton into a rhetoric that ends up back firing. >> i have to say one of the funniest things you have said on

this show which is bill clinton's discipline has its limits. >> i agree with that. more donald trump news the trump rex is holding an unusual rally in burlington, vermont and the stronghold of bernie sanders. police are nervous after the discovery that the trump campaign issued 20,000 tickets for the event which is a lot more than the number of people who can fit in the theater. this is a really basic question. why is donald trump invading bernie's democratic socialist stomping grounds? >> one of the most under rated aspects is his strength and a lot of states outside of new hampshire, outside of the southern states have gotten a lot of attention including the northeast. he is very strong in massachusetts. he is very strong in new york. these early voting states. vermont has an early contest.

he will reach way more people and a win in vermont is not just delegates. if we get to the point where people are tallying up state wins. >> your answer in a very serious sober way but i have to say to me this feels like complete bravado. i think part of this is just like let's go up there and show that guy that i can get a huge crowd in burlington, too. he is not the only one who can get big crowds. i'm getting big crowds all over the country. i will go into his backyard and show him how it is done. >> it doesn't hurt but i'm telling you people are under estimating the sophistication of the trump delegate operation and focus on winning delegates and states. a northeastern state, trump is winning southern states it's going to show a regional diversity and other people

struggle to match. the recent heated back and forth between establishment contenders marco rubio and chris christie got intense after rubio's superpac put out the two television ads slamming christie. christie accused rubio of trying to slime his way into the white house. on an interview yesterday christie seemed to single out rubio as likely to be biggest post new hampshire opponent. >> i think this is going to wind up coming down to donald trump and ted cruz and me and marco rubio. >> what do you think about -- >> you want -- not somebody who is first term united states senator who never had a tough race in his life. this guy has been spoon fed ever a victory he has had. that is the kind of person we want to put on the stage against hillary clinton? i don't think so.

pat him on the head and cut his heart out. >> so christie hits rubio and then today on fox business network rubio hit back. >> the fact of the matter is chris christie has supported common core and bad mouthed republicans that oppose it. chris christie has supported gun control and supported assault weapons ban, the reason why he got into politics. chris christie contributed to planned parenthood. he has done a number of things that are very similar to the obama agenda. i don't think this country can afford to elect a president that will not stand up and undo the damage barack obama has done to this country. >> this thing is pretty fully engaged between rubio and christie who do you think has the upper hand? >> i think that marco rubio has the upper hand. i think he is introducing new information into the conversation and some of that is pretty bad for chris christie in terms of the republican base. this planned parenthood allegation that he has

contributed to it turns out there is a quote from back in 1994 that has christie quoted bragging about the fact that he made personal contributions to planned parenthood. that is not going to do chris christie any good with the republican electorate in this cycle. >> the back and forth between these guys is going to continue. it is one of the decisive subplots that will determine the finalists. rubio showing he is tough and strong i think is very good for current donors. and the other thing is they both need to get a frame on the other. the reality is for the buzz around christie new hampshire polls he has not moved that much. if rubio can get a beat on him now he can keep christie from growing where he is a true contender. >> get a beat on him and basically deploy the opposition research well and frame christie as a liberal which is what a lot of republicans think about chris christie. >> when we come back my full conversation with ted cruz on his iowa campaign bus.

what he says about donald trump, north korea and his canadian roots. first after we come back a quick game of would you rather. it took joel silverman years to become a master dog trainer. but only a few commands to master depositing checks at chase atms. technology designed for you. so you can easily master the way you bank. ♪ ♪ ♪ why fit in when you were born to stand out. the 2016 nissan altima has arrived.

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as political reporters we spend a lot of time thinking about scenarios. let's play a round of would you rather the 2016 campaign edition. if you were a republican presidential candidate and you had the choice would you rather come in third place here in iowa or second place in new hampshire primary in. >> i would rather be second in new hampshire because i know if i am second in new hampshire and donald trump wins new hampshire i have become the leader of establishment. that is my preference. >> the answer is third in iowa. it is a little bit counter intative. if one of the establishment candidates finish strong enough third in iowa that they come out of here as the big establishment

story that may be momentum in new hampshire. i think if chris christie or marco rubio or jeb bush finished a strong third here that might springboard them into second in new hampshire and you get both. it all starts here. i think third in iowa could be the biggest deal. >> our second question, if you are donald trump and you win new hampshire, would you rather who in second place? ted cruz or marco rubio? >> ted cruz. i think trump's best bet for being the from being the nominee in a hurry is if he and cruz finish one, two. that could lead to a two person race right away. trump in a three person race would face some challenges. one-on-one against cruz he would take the odds whereas rubio would have consolidated the establishment vote that can pose more problems.

i think trump would be fine with going one-on-one. >> i agree with you 100%. i think for partly the reason of the first question, if you are marco rubio you come in second in new hampshire you are most likely going to consolidate the establishment vote. the guy who consolidates the establishment vote is a huge threat. if you are trump and you keep the vote from consolidating you are in a good place. if i'm trump i would rather fight with one guy and have it be ted cruz. a guy who has not been the leader for the whole year. trump is better in that situation by far. >> ted cruz could finish second in new hampshire. he could finish first in new hampshire. he is so dominating that lane and people understate that the size of that lane in new hampshire on issues like guns, watch ted cruz in new hampshire. if you are bernie sanders, would

you rather have bill clinton out on the campaign trail as he is today or would you rather have bill clinton off the campaign trail? >> obviously off because for all of the questions about bill clinton and the things we are talking about about his personal life, the potential liabilities he brings he is a popular democrat within your party. if you are bernie sanders trying to win that democratic nomination this guy is a titan in your party. he plays politics as well or better. if i was bernie sanders i would say bill clinton i hope he breaks his hip and has to stay home in bed until at least april. >> this question was a little silly. the guy is the validater in chief. he did it for barack obama and will do it for his wife. he is ramping up. he is still not ozstrong as he is going to be. i think the sanders campaign has no surrogate that can match bill clinton. surrogates matter a lot.

how much time in new hampshire. you will see bill clinton here a lot and see him in new hampshire a lot. bernie sanders has nobody who can match that. >> you think back to 2008 and there were times when bill clinton's explosions and eruptions benefitted barack obama. clinton felt the press was favoring obama. it got him upset. my sense is that both bill and hillary clinton are confident right now about the fight they are in with bernie sanders and there is no way in which they think the press is favoring sanders over clinton. most things that caused him to lose control, there is a good chance that from sanders' point of view having bill clinton out there is more of a problem than any potential benefit that might -- >> the only thing i have to say is nothing with the clintons

ever happens in a linear fashion. chances are there will be one moment between now and iowa when bernie sanders may feel differently. up next, mark rides the bus with ted cruz and i. sten. you laugh. you worry. you do whatever it takes to take care of your family. and when it's time to plan for your family's future, we're here for you. we're legalzoom, and for over 10 years we've helped families just like yours with wills and living trusts. so when you're ready, start with us. doing the right thing has never been easier. legalzoom. legal help is here. there it is... this is where i met your grandpa. right under this tree. ♪ (man) some things are worth holding onto. they're hugging the tree. (man) that's why we got a subaru.

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television commercials and coming here on occasion, is that a winning strategy? >> iowa is a state that expects you to be on the ground and expect to make their own determinations. i think iowa and new hampshire both have been neither one has been that hospitable to a candidate who thinks you can write a check and go to tv studio in manhattan and somehow win the campaign. this election is about grass roots and answering the hard questions and you can't do that from the safety and security of a tv studio. you need to be sitting in a pizza ranch looking an iowa farmer in the eye and answering difficult questions and letting him or her make the assessment. >> the human scale of this we just left at one event you aided a woman who fainted and helped a woman look for her car keys. are those required to get elected president? >> people want a real human

being. that is the value of interacting in person. i have to say ironically the media is helpful with this because many folks in the media paint this scary caricature of me as this evil ogre. when we have a chance to visit what the media has painted is so different and i have lots of failings but i don't think i am particularly crazy or nastier or main sflmpt kw let the record show you revived the woman but didn't find the car keys. >> she did find the car keys. the team was watching out. >> i want to ask you about some things in the news. a lot of turmoil in the chinese economy. is the american economy too intertwined with the chinese economy for our own good in. >> whether it is too intertwined or not we are in a global economy. from our perspective there is always going to be shocks to the

economic system world wide. and the answer for us is to keep the american economy as strong as possible. right now we are in a vulnerable position. i am reminded of bill clinton's former chief of staff described the economy as the prettiest horse in the glue factory. that is not a very good description. >> we are dependent on -- there are big trading partner. is there steps you think the country should take to make us less dependent on china? >> what we should be doing is following the policies we know work to produce jobs here. the key to job creation is small business. this is where washington gets it wrong. when washington thinks about business it thinks about big business, the giant corporations that have lobbiests. big business doesn't create the majority of jobs in the economy. the majority of new jobs come from small business. i think the focus needs to be

very much on the small mom and pops and the people starting things in their garages. >> help us insulate from china. >> if our economy is booming here at home it gives us the domestic strength to stand strong and the most effective levers that government can apply to help small businesses are tax reform and regulatory reform. they have proven over and over again to work if i am elected president, the tax burden and the regulatory burden on job creators and small businesses will decrease dramatically and every time we have done that the result of that has been incredible economic growth which helps this country and helps insulate us from whatever economic shocks might happen abroad. >> one more about china. donald trump proposed 45% tariff on goods from china. is that a good idea in. >> i am amazed he is talking to the "new york times" editorial board. i try to focus on productive endeavors. listen, i think -- >> policy question.

i'm not asking you to attack him. is that a good idea? 45% tariff on chinese goods? >> ink oo simple protectionism, enacting large tariffs for the sake of blocking foreign goods historically has hurt american jobs. i will point out a much better approach i believe is my tax plan. my simple flat tax is for individuals 10% simple flat tax and businesses a 16% business flat tax. we eliminate corporate income tax, elimbinate obama care taxes. the thing relevant is 16% business flat tax is border adjustable which means any goods being exported farmer or rancher or manufacturer are tax free. you don't pay the 16% business flat tax. that helps every american farmer and rancher and manufacturer. >> so 45% tariff is not

something you propose. >> it is not. the flip side is every import pays a 16% business flat tax but not a punitive tariff. it is simply putting imports on a level playing field so that american manufacturers can compete. that will have a dramatic result. it won't start a trade war. it's the same thing europe and asia are doing to us now. it doesn't start a trade war. if the response is that we see protective tariffs going up against u.s. goods that hurts america. this is a response that enhances american jobs without hurting our ability to compete in the market place. >> more from a very big day here in iowa coming up. the rest of my interview with senator cruz and bill clinton on the campaign trail. now there's prescription xifaxan. xifaxan is a new ibs-d treatment that helps relieve your diarrhea and abdominal pain symptoms. and xifaxan works differently.

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we are back. i want to go to my friend in iowa. you spent the ta with cruz.

give me a sense of what it is like out there. i want to get a sense of the atmosphere, what it smells like out there. >> these events are well attended. any candidate would be pleased with the size of the crowds. a couple hours away from des moines and the intensity of the crowds and the stump speech is good. he is saying what he wants to say. he is like chris christie and so many others on his closing message. he is very relaxed. there is a lot swirling around him. he has steve king, iowa congressman with him. he has his campaign manager on the road with him for a change. this is a relaxed tight knit group including the candidate. i'm impressed with the pace of it. having been at some trump events the scale oft thing where he is speaking and other events i have seen this morning you are talking about 100 or so people, not thousands and thousands.

>> we talked earlier about the birther stuff that has been kind of getting a lot of coverage out in the national media today. my sense is that this ethanol question is trailing him as much in iowa as the questions of citizenship or his eligibility are in the national press. how is he dealing with the questions on ethanol. are they voters asking the questions or mostly the press? talk about that a little bit. >> well, it's hard to know. it's not the press entirely. it is voters. i will say the lobbiests are trailing him wherever he goes. the suspicion, he has a very well practiced answer and a pretty well strong answer in talking about his position on energy in general appealing to the free market and saying why he is against long term subsidy. he believes there is making the market competitive. it is a strong answer and a lot

of analysts think that the ethanol issue is overstated. there are interested parties who care about this sector and would like a government subsidy. within the conservative movement his appeal to free market on energy is a pretty powerful thing. i suspect it is by lobbiests and he says by lobbiests, democrats and the media. >> how much of a sense do you have just from spending this time with him so far of the cruz operation out there? everybody says he has the best organization in the state and one of the key elements to why people are putting him as almost the prohibitive front runner. how much have you seen of that operation and how do you rate it? >> i'm not going out with people

in the field. this is a confident team. he has iowa folks as well as national people and they understand the concept of signing up people statewide, not just here in iowa and focussing on organizing. it is not an overstated operation. you need to as we have always said organize and get hot at the end. they are well organized. i think he is understanding what moo he needs to do to appeal to people in the specific elements which talk to people and says i want you to vote ten times and everybody laughs. he says we are not democrats. i want you to vote and i want you to figure out how to get nine people to vote for me and through your hard work and that is the central organization. >> ted cruz is a big event, getting a lot of attention in iowa. not the only one in iowa. we talked about the fact that bill clinton is on the trail. he is talking to voters. there was one particular

reporter for nbc news kristin welker who got a chance to ask about donald trump's attacks on president clinton's personal history. >> donald trump is again making an issue of your past transgressions. do you want to respond? are you worried that your past can hurt your wife's campaign? >> i don't have response. i have no interest in getting involved in anything besides trying to help hillary. >>. >> what is your reaction? >> joining us now is the very kristin welker we were talking about. give us a sense of what it was like to be only a few inches away from bill clinton while you asked that question. we heard the words he said and we got a sense of a tone, but

what was his kind of meander? was he ruffled or cool as a cucumber? >> reporter: great to be talking to you. he knew these questions were coming. he has been getting these questions. he was on the trail on monday. he was asked about this from andrea mitchell. i asked him again. you heard the reporter asking him. and then later this afternoon he got asked by another reporter about his past transgressions. two take aways from the day. one is that clintons are still not engaging. they don't think it benefits them to engage on this issue. they think that getting into a dust up with donald trump is only going to escalate the issue. they want to get back to what they want to talk about, issues like the economy. the second take away, this issue isn't going away. it continues to follow the clintons on the campaign trail, hillary clinton getting asked about it out in l.a. today. these questions are going to continue. they are going to continue to

dodge them. as of right now my question for them, when does that end? at some point i anticipate they want to engage on some level. >> give me a sense, that has been the controversy out there. you have to ask bill clinton about it. you got to spend a lot of time watching him work the room. talk to voters, be the retail politician. take out your reporters' note book and give us a sense of what you saw whether he is really on his game or a little rusty. what was it like watching clinton in his element? >> reporter: let me set the scene for you today. i was able to go to a market with him before he had his big campaign stop here. there were about 20 different vendors there. he stopped at every vendor talked to each and every employee at the vendor. all of the fans who were waiting there took pictures with everyone. he offered to take pictures and once he had finished speaking to

all of these people one of his aides said we can leave now if you want. he said i want to talk to the people eating lunch. that was about 30 more people. this was bill clinton being bill clinton. he wanted to shake every single hand in the room. he wanted to take a picture with all of the babies. there were about three of them there. this is critical in a state like iowa. this is a state that values retail politics. no one does it better than bill clinton, not even hillary clinton. she does it you get the sense at times because it is one of the things you have to do when you are campaigning in early voting states. >> they are very different political figures. thank you so much for being with us. up next we have former carson campaign manager bennett taubing about the man who he says can't be stopped, donald trump. but will get back to you just as soon as i possibly can.

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kim jong-un? >> well, you know, i don't know that i'm competent to conduct a psychiatric examination but by all appearances he appears to be radical and extreme and unpredictable and appears very much like his father. >> what do you think his goals are? >> it is difficult to say. i think his number one goal is staying in power more than anything else. i think there is a lot of narcissism. he wants to be very important and defy america and appear strong. i think the fact that he wants to stay in power gives some possibility of rational deterrents. >> i need to move to a topic, john mccain not normally one to weigh in on constitutional issues said he thought there was a difference in terms of eligibility to be president between being someone born in territory and foreign country. no judge has weighed in on this. is it possible there is a difference there? >> i think it is no surprise to

anybody that john mccain is going to be supporting marco rubio in this election. >> he hasn't announced that. you are predicting that? >> their foreign policies are almost identical. it's no surprise at all that he is trying to do what he can to help the candidate he is favoring. >> on the legal question, is it possible that a judge might find that to be a difference? >> the legal question is straightforward and clear. >> the legal question is straightforward and clear. the constitution defines that the president must be a natural born citizen. the very first congress in defining a natural born citizen said a child of a u.s. citizen born abroad is a natural born citizen. many members of the first congress had been at the constitutional convention, were constitutional framers. as a legal matter this is open and shut. it is not surprising that political opponents who are

worried about our surging support among conservatives are trying to muddy the water and see if reporters will run down crazy rabbit trails because they want to distract from the reality. >> you are referring to senator mccain. >> i am referring to political opponents. >> i think john is trying to help marco. and that's not surprising. >> you've got a country where arnold schwarzenegger can't be president. your father loves the country. he can't become president of the united states. should we change it so people born abroad but come here become citizens and love the country? >> that is a fair question to debate another day? i don't have a view on that. it is true that someone who is 30 years old and brilliant and wonderful cannot be president because the constitution defines you must be 35.

you can make an argument about this wonderful 30 year old. at the end of the day we have the constitution we have that has served us very well for over two centuries. we should follow the constitution. >> you are fine now. someone like your father can't be president. >> those are the terms oft constitution. i think you can have a reasonable debate about whether that should be changed. i don't think that is a debate to play out between now and primaries or the general. >> last question. you got a year to go if you are going to be president. are you thinking at all about the burdens of the presidency? what do you think about? >> i will say it is one of the things when you are thinking about running a campaign for president you start thinking really seriously about that. when you launch a campaign you think more seriously. as the campaign gains momentum and strength as you see surging support every night when you go

to bed you lay in bed and contemplate what it would mean to wake up and to have the burdens of the oval office on your shoulders. you think about just about every president who served you see them visibly age. when you have the burdens of keeping 320 million americans safe each and every day, of standing for american values, that is a job that has immense responsibility and at least for me it is something that has led to a lot of contemplation and a lot of serious study and a lot of time in prayer. i think these challenges are immense. and i think the judgment that others are making right now is who has the experience, who has the knowledge, the clarity of vision and the strength of resolve to lead this country in a time of great peril. >> if you were president and you had the information that the north koreans were attempting to marry up a missile with a

nuclear device, would that be cause to use u.s. military force to stop that? >> that has been reported and hearings where we heard testimony that indicates. >> that is what they are trying to do. if you had information they were on the precipice of marrying up the device with a missile is that justification for use of force? >> that is a difficult question to answer in the abstract. i can say the situation is difficult and the reason is you don't want a lunatic or zealot to have nuclear weapons because it increases your danger dramatically. this north korea nuclear test, it really demonstrates the utter folly of the obama clinton foreign policy. it is worth remembering the reason kim jong-un has nuclear weapons is because of the

mistakes of the clinton administration. the clinton administration got the entire world to relax sanctions. they allowed billions of dollars to flow because they believed a promise that they wouldn't develop nuclear weapons. they use the billions of dollars, develop nuclear weapons and the thing that is amazing is president obama and hillary clinton recruited wendy sherman the very same person who negotiated the failed north korea deal to lead the iranian nuclear deal and she negotiated the same deal. it is even worse. it is $150 billion and the reason that's even more dangerous as profoundly unpredictable and dangerous as north korea is, at least kim jong-un is not a religious fagnatical zealot. an apocalyptic zealot who embraces death and suicide. that means the ordinary cost benefit analysis rational deterrence doesn't work the way

it should for someone with whom death is a perfectly fine outcome. in my view we should never allow iran to acquire a nuclear weapon because if hillary clinton is elected president i believe what we saw this week in north korea is foreshadowing of what happens in years that iran will test a nuclear weapon. unlike north korea they might do so not in an underground facility but in the skies of a populated city whether tel aviv or new york or los angeles because of the apocalyptic death culture. that is why i said i will rip to shreds the nuclear deal and make clear that under no circumstances will they be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons. >> i understand from a matter of history what you said about the clinton straition and obama administration. the bush administration didn't

make much progress. >> they were not effective in turning around the mistakes of the clinton administration. it was the clinton administration that messed this up to begin with. regardless, neither obama or hillary clinton learned from their mistakes in the past. with iran, they are repeating the exact same mistakes. they literally recruited. there are 7 billion people on the planet. wendy sherman messed it up. they found one person and said that's how -- >> i don't know much about politics, but i know when your communication kicks me. the interview is over. thank you. >> thanks to senator cruz. up next, barry bennett, after this. on my long-term control medicine, i talked to my doctor and found a missing piece in my asthma treatment. once-daily breo prevents asthma symptoms. breo is for adults with asthma not well controlled

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like a 007 martini, our next guest has been shaken, but not stirred. he resigned from the carson

campaign as part of a staff shake up. good to have you on the show. you said this morning on "morning joe" that donald trump is going to win the republican nomination unless something big happened. tell me what is the scenario for him not to be the republican nominee. >> we are running out of scenarios. 10, 11, 12 months, they have been coming up with scenarios why he's not going to win. he's not going to run. he's going to implod. those things have not come true. we are a few weeks out of iowa and he is looking good. you can't suspend mathematics. >> you don't know what a big thing is that could stop him? >> implosion or a scandal or something like that. the guy continues to turn out ten, 15, 20,000 people at rallies. even if half of them voted, it's a big deal. >> you were the campaign manager for ben carson. you were running a rival

campaign. for a minute there in the fall, some people said was the front-runner. what was your strategy to stop donald trump? >> the contrast between the two of them. he's loud and ben is quiet. you know, we thought it was a great contrast. you know, sometimes, you know, volume passes and it's what people want. it appears to be what people want. >> you worked in politics for a long time. you know the state of ohio is a big swing state. you know that state well. donald trump, as republican nominee, how does he fare in the general election. is that something republicans should look forward to including down taker republicans? >> i mean, we don't know yet. there are a lot of hurting blue collar workers in ohio. they have jobs again but they don't pay them the same. they don't have the same benefits. there are a lot of people who are frustrated and a lot of people have given up hope the

government can do anything for them. they are for burning the city down. if it can't help me, why do i care? >> let me ask you about your time with the carson campaign. you said on cnn dr. carson had some friends who i wasn't able to stop from making terrible mistakes. if they hadn't been made, he would be doing better. what were the mistakes that were made? >> one of the bigger mistakes we made was this guy who was apparently talking to dr. carson without my knowledge about national security, did an interview with "the new york times," confirmed the narrative he didn't know anything about foreign policy, which was false, but devastating to us. then, you know, another one of dr. carson's friends insisted a washington post reporter do a story about his religion. that result was devastating among evangelicals. they were a couple senseless things. the campaign had not just one cook in the kitchen, but sometimes three. it was tough.

i couldn't stop it. i felt the right thing for me to do was get out and let someone else try. >> in a case like that, is it not the candidate's job to keep the right number of cooks in the kitchen? >> typically, it would be yes. first time candidates need some help, which i tried to provide. >> thanks. sorry for cutting you off. we have to fly. thanks for being on. we'll be right back. want bladder leak underwear that moves like you do? try always discreet underwear and move, groove, wiggle, giggle, swerve, curve. lift, shift, ride, glide, hit your stride.

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bloombergpolitics.com. >> we bid you a hawk eye sar nada. "hardball" starts now. the battle of lake champlain. let's play "hardball." good evening. it's chris matthews in washington. tonight, donald trump is in burlington, vermont doing what he does best, orchestrated razzmatazz. the republican front-runner is set to take the stage any moment now. he's chosen the bluest of blue states on the east coast. bernie sanders home turf, to build the valley. his campaign issued 20,000 tickets tonight for a venue with seats fewer than 1500 seats. that move in all advancement annoyed