tv The Seduction MSNBC January 9, 2016 12:00am-1:01am PST
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guilt when he began trying to sort out the estate and found a life insurance policy with a special clause. >> a double indemnity insurance policy, if he died by accident. >> exactly the plot line of that old film classic "double indemnity," the husband's murder staged to look like an accident. >> okay, baby, that's it. . welcome back to "newsline," i'm cana co sack know. british defense secretary michael fallon have agreed to increase cooperation. fallon wasses in japan on friday. knack tanney said they exchanged views on north korea and china.
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>> with suspicious but little hard evidence, the detectives let patty go. before she left, she began to shake with something that looked like real fear. what did she know about that young man, what sort of story was she spinning now? >> i don't think i'll be alive for long. i'm telling you, he'll come for me. he'll tell you he's coming here, but he'll kill me first. >> it was clear now that jaime
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ramos was the leading man, the key to solving the case, even if he wasn't involved, well, he surely would have known who was. but how could they get to him? he could be anywhere by now. as the detectives dug into jaime's background, they found he was devoted to his grandmother, the woman who raised him. maybe she would know where he was. >> and i explained to her the situation he was in and the reason for me needing to talk to him, because to be honest with you, we knew nothing at that point. >> she must have been pretty shocked. >> she was. she was devastated. and within 24 hours i had a phone call from jaime ramos. >> who, after stalling for a few weeks, finally agreed to return and answer questions in person. but on the day jaime was to meet with them, he was a no-show. instead, detectives lensing and hagis received an urgent phone call. >> patricia had gone missing. >> a month to the day after
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ron's murder, the two detectives were back at the presba house, investigating another strange and violent crime. >> there was forced entry into the house. there was blood, a kidnap note found at the house. >> what did the note say? >> it was a white piece of paper, printer paper, with cutout pieces or cutout letters from a magazine, glued to it, stating that i have taken her. >> did it occur to either one of you that maybe ramos himself had kidnapped patricia, that he was behind this from the get-go. >> we really didn't know. we didn't know if mr. ramos had anything to do with this because we had no indication he had been back in town. >> during the second investigation in their family home, april and misty once again waited outside. and here they said they were quietly approached by one of patty's daughters, who asked a very strange question.
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>> she said, is there a dead body in the house? i said, no, not that the detectives had said. and she said my mom called last night and asked us to help her get rid of a body. coming up, and guess whose body that was supposed to be. >> as we opened the door and walked into the room, he yelled out to us, don't shoot me. i've been shot already. >> when "the seduction" continues.
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a motel 6 parking lot, within screaming distance of the salt lake city airport, it was the morning after patty's sudden disappearance. officer mike paletta of the utah department of motor vehicles was on a routine search of stolen cars. he noticed the california plate on the green 2003 hyundai. called it in and got a hit.
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>> i found that it came back with an ncic hit out of california, wanted in a homicide. >> officer paletta was calling for backup when a woman left this room, 109. >> she looked at me and she turned right around and went right back into the room. my sergeant and i approached the room and as we got closer to the room, she had walked back out of the room and started walking towards me. i had grabbed her and i says, are you patricia presba? she said, yes. >> and then she said something quite bizarre. >> he's in the room. he's been shot. >> and my sergeant and i made entry into the room. as we opened the door and walked into the room, he yelled out to us, "don't shoot me, i've been shot already." >> it was jaime ramos and just barely alive. >> i see these two guns coming in with arms and then i see that it's the police. and they're telling me to freeze, you know.
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i put my arms up and i just -- like, wow, what's going on? and they helped me out of bed. they handcuffed me. >> patty, police discovered, had been stabbed in the arm, and jaime? shot, three bleeding holes in him. >> i was told that i was 30 minutes or so away from bleeding out. >> a medic attended to jaime's wounds. a policeman searched the hotel room, found gauze, medicine, hair dye, a handgun, and movies, "rambo" and "diehard." then as they led him across the parking lot to a waiting ambulance, jaime watched patty in animated conversation with a cop. >> i didn't see her handcuffed. i saw her there talking to a police officer. and then i started to think she gave me up, saying that she was kidnapped. >> jaime, for once, guessed right. that's exactly the story patty told later that day to detective
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lensing. >> it was dark. the lights were off. and i shot him. it was dark and i was scared he was gonna kill me. >> you fired that gun from in here. >> patty said he overpowered her, grabbed the gun, told her it was a kidnapping. >> he said we're leaving. get in the car. he put me in the car. >> she blamed it on mr. ramos. she blamed the whole thing on mr. ramos, stating she had shot mr. ramos three times because he was attacking her. >> what caliber of a weapon was this? >> we later found out it was a .44 magnum. >> wouldn't that do a whole lot of damage? >> i would imagine so. but for some reason, the bullets didn't expand and they went right through him. >> he was lucky. >> jaime was taken away for medical treatment. as he recovered, he thought about the fake kidnapping, the shooting, the choice of salt
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lake, even though he was begging patty to drive south to mexico. and he decided that patty probably was trying to set him up to take the fall for ron's murder. but he also decided that maybe, for the love of patty, he would do just that. he went over in his head the story he would tell when detectives came to see him. >> that i did it, that i'm a mad man. but then a feint thought of my family came through, saying, oh, yeah, my family. what is my grandmother going to think? so that's when i started to just say the truth, the way it really happened. >> and what really happened? the truth? so much stranger than even one of patty's convoluted lies. the truth was more like fantasy, like the plot from one of jaime's movies. >> there were times during the interview where we had to actually slow him down, because
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he was -- he was putting this information out there so quickly, we couldn't even digest it. that never happens. >> no, it doesn't. >> jaime's story, like none you've ever heard. >> all this, i kept telling to myself, this is for her, this is to make her happy. >> coming up, what he did for love. >> i put on the gloves, i wiped down the hammer. >> when "the seduction" continues.
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jaime ramos described ron presba as the kindest man he ever met, the sort of father figure he had always wanted. but jaime, just 21 years old, was in love with ron's 47-year-old wife, patty. and this is his story of what he did for her, the last night of ron's life. it was after he lost his nerve out by the pig pen, after ron went back into the house. jaime called patty, told her he couldn't go through with it. and patty was furious. hadn't he heard what she told
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him about the rape? was he like all those others, did he not believe her either? >> she would say, you're telling me you don't love me right now. no, i'm not saying that. well, that's what you're meaning by saying that this is wrong, that you don't believe me. then she would say, if you're going to do it. and if not, just leave. >> confused, jaime walked back to the house and on the way spotted a small sledgehammer. >> and i told myself, well, if one hit on the head even just makes him go unconscious, that's enough for me. so when i went inside the use, i went inside behind him and i started to drink a lot of water for my nerves. i was really nervous. and once again, a couple more calls from patty. is it done? is it done? not yet. well, hurry up. click.
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and i finally took my last drink of water. i put on the gloves. i wiped down the hammer. >> ron was in his easy chair watching tv. jaime, a few feet behind, seated at the kitchen table. >> i looked myself in the reflection by the window, and i was telling myself once again, if you do this, there is no turning back. you're doing this because it's right. you're doing this because you love her. >> so you were sitting behind him, trying to get up your nerve. what did you think about? >> i was thinking about all the things that she told me. >> they must be true. >> and that they must be true. this has to be true.
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if she tells me it's true, she won't lie to me. she's never lied to me. >> and that's how, sitting there in the kitchen he talked himself into believing patty's tale of abuse and rape, the one that triggered his own childhood memories. >> immediately i got the adrenaline rush because i started to feel the anger. i jumped out of my seat and i hit him on the head three times, quickly. he put his arms up, and i -- sounded like a what and a why at the same time. and he -- as he threw his arms up, they automatically fell down and i was yelling at him, telling him how you raped my wife, you beat my wife, you're getting what you deserve.
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that's right, patty's my wife. i married her. how dare you touch my wife that way? and i hit him on the head about three, four more times. and it just ended up where i knew for a fact he was dead. >> broke his skull. >> i broke his skull. and i dropped the hammer, and i felt a relief, and i felt exhausted. >> relief? >> relief that i finally got this over with, that i finally did justice for this woman. she'll be happy now. >> but to fully please patty, jaime still had much to do. he needed to stage ron's death to make it look like an
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accident. >> it took me about an hour and a half to put him in the car. >> how did you do it? >> i drug him all the way to the vehicle outside, and the problem was to lift him and put him in the driver's seat. >> so jaime made a ramp out of a ladder and a sheet of plywood. >> i set that up, the ladder and the plywood on top and i was dragging him up. and it was working. i had him -- i got him all the way into the seat. and i belted him in as though he was driving. >> how did you get the suv to the place where you knocked it off the cliff? >> i sat in the middle seat, and i was using my left leg the whole time for brake and gas. and my right hand to steer.
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>> that can't have been easy. >> no, it was exhausting. >> sitting right beside this man you just murdered, his head is open and bleeding and you've killed him and he's right beside you. how did you keep your sanity? >> i thought of a movie. >> the movie jaime was thinking about is "sin city." this is the scene, a killer assigned to dump a body is driving through the countryside with the corpse sitting beside him. >> i started to tell myself, wow, three years ago, when i watched this movie, never did i feel that i was going to be doing something similar to this. >> reality inside that suburban was horrific. but jaime transformed it to fantasy. now it was nothing more than a scene from a favorite movie. >> and i just kept replaying that part in my head, and
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enjoying that -- enjoying the feeling of being in a theater with my cousin, watching that movie was what helped me. >> along the way, jaime dumped the hammer, a bloody rug, and ron's easy chair. then at the curb over the gorge, he put all the props in place for the climax, the accident scene. >> i started to douse the car with gasoline. and i opened up the propane tank, i lit the lighter while i put his foot on the gas pedal. it was on park, so it was just revved. i lit it and i put it on drive, everything went in flames. i shut the door, and i saw the car go down. >> and ran to the getaway car he parked earlier behind the earthen berm.
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he was to flee southeast to texas, but instead he went west. >> i actually ended up driving back to her house. >> you weren't supposed to do that. >> i wasn't supposed to do that. >> why did you do that? >> i had to see her. >> why? >> i felt if i didn't see her that she was going to abandon me. >> when jaime returned to the house, he found patty here in the living room, cleaning up the blood and gore he had left behind. and sitting right in the middle of it, right here, on the very spot where ron was murdered, sat her 3-year-old granddaughter, watching cartoons on television. >> as i go there, she looks at me and she's, like, what are you doing here? are you serious right now? you know, get out of here. as i reached for a hug and a kiss, she withdrew from me. and said you need to leave now. i'm like, can i at least get a last good-bye hug and kiss?
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she gave me this hug and this kiss that was empty. >> and now alone at night on the open road -- >> when i started to feel dirty. i started to feel ashamed. i wanted to throw up. i felt like i had just desecrated a man for what i started to see now as a selfish reason. and on top of everything, i just damned my soul. >> jaime fled california that night, leaving behind the woman at whose behest he committed murder. perhaps it wasn't so surprising that he didn't realize he was next. coming up, a date with patty, a very bad date. >> i'm like, patty, what are you doing right now? did you just shoot me? >> when "the seduction"
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he went to texas first, stayed with a favorite uncle and, once there, he couldn't stop himself from talking about his greatest passion, patty. >> i told him, everybody, that i'm married to this woman and that i'm happy. that i even went as far as describing her as an angel. >> but within a week, jaime's grandmother called, said police in california wanted to talk to him. and jaime, unable to defy his grandmother, obediently called detective lensing. tell me what that was like when you realized it was a policeman at the other end that wanted to talk to you. >> i felt i got caught, it's over. the detective even went as far as asking me if i killed him and i lied to him and i said no. >> reporter: feeding the pressure, jaime went back out on the road and drove to new york, stayed with an old girlfriend, but there was always that craving. >> i started to feel the loneliness again.
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i started to feel that i needed my nourishment again. >> so he called and begged patty to let him return. but that was not part of patty's plan. >> she told me no, go -- don't come -- just stay away for a while because they're not after you. they're after me. if you stay away, it's going to be okay for a while. just -- if you come here, they'll just probably arrest you. >> unable to control himself, jaime disobeyed and began the long road trip back to california. >> i went straight to patty, because i missed her so much. >> what was it like to get back with patty again? >> it felt like san francisco again, just everything was just happy and nothing mattered anymore. >> all those worries fell away. >> all those worries fell away. >> until reality had found him. >> my family called me and said, where are you?
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i couldn't lie to them. so i told them that i'm here with patty. are you going to talk to the police? yes. tomorrow? promise us, tomorrow. yes. okay. >> it was a promise jaime fully intended to keep. except patty had another idea, and jaime wasn't in on that script. he was the only one she knew who could connect her to ron's murder. she had known that full well when she sat in that interrogation room and quaked in fear as she predicted for detectives her own demise. >> i don't think i'll be alive for long. i'm telling you, he'll come for me. he'll tell you he's coming here, but he'll kill me first. >> and so the day before jaime was to see the police, patty launched her new production.
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she told jaime he would be the hero, the leading man. >> that's when patty told me about this plan of a false kidnapping. >> the idea, patty said, was for jaime to call detective lensing, say he was in nevada, but would be in california the following day, ready to talk. >> what was supposed to happen? >> what was supposed to happen was that the detectives think i'm in reno. she gets apprehended by a party that nobody knows about, which would supposedly be -- >> the killer of her husband. >> the killer of her husband. >> that evening, patty told jaime put on overalls and gloves and a mask. >> she gave me a stocking to put over my head. >> wait a minute. who is going to be seeing you with a stocking over your head except her? >> she was telling me it was so that no sweat or hair can come off. >> next, patty told jaime to craft this note using words and
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phrases cut from a newspaper. they got the idea from -- well, where else? >> just from movies of seeing ransom letters from people, how -- >> they always do it that way. >> they always do it that way. no penmanship can be traced. she's like, yeah, yeah, just make sure this is what it says. >> the let wears nonsensical except for some phrases patty insisted on, like she's mine, too jealous and real pain. >> it was giving me the chills. because when i looked at it, i felt that it was real. i was like, wow, this is -- this is crazy. this is something that a crazy person would write, you know. i don't remember the specifics, but it was definitely something about now that he's gone, i can have her to myself. it will be all over soon.
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>> jaime had been played for a fool for so long, had murdered a good man for a bad woman, was still so blinded by obsession he had no idea that once again patty was setting him up. but this time he was to play the role of both stooge and victim. patty next grabbed this kitchen knife, the one you see on the tv cabinet, and told jaime to cut her. >> i'm hesitating, so she slams my arm down to -- and i just end
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up slicing her. >> deep cut? >> pretty deep cut. she started moving her arm around, making sure there was blood splatters. i go and get the car, i back it up. i can't find her. but i see that her bathroom door for the master bedroom is closed. and that's when i realize, okay, she just wants the door kicked down. when i kicked that door down, i see her silhouette with a gun. i said, patty! she goes, boom, one time. and i guess the first shot went through my arm, which i didn't know, because of the shock. she fires again and it hits me here in the collarbone area, and it knocks me to the ground. and i'm on the ground and i'm crying, patty, patty, what are you doing? it's me. stop this. why are you killing me? stop this.
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it's me. and she was still firing. she fired another one. and that one hit my leg. and after that, she drops the gun. she starts running outside the house, screaming for help. i get up, and i run outside, and get her and i'm like, patty, what are you doing right now? did you just shoot me? did you just really shoot me? and as we get back in the house, that's when i start to feel my aches and i start to feel woozy. i start to feel the blood trickling down my leg, my arm, my chest, and i start to tell her, patty, we need to leave. you really did shoot me. why? why did you shoot me? >> why? patty's only response, said jaime, was to reach into a drawer and pull out a handful of bullets. >> and a whole bunch of bullets are falling from her hand. and she's reloading the gun. i yell to her, patty, why are
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you reloading the gun? what are you doing? why are you trying to kill me? it's me, jaime. she very calmly says, i'm not reloading the gun. i don't know what you're talking about. >> now he was confused. he ran into the bathroom, tried to hide. >> i don't know where else to go. i was just, you know, i was panicked. i'm shivering, crying, bleeding, and she comes in and she's pointing the gun at me again and she's telling me, ron was such a good man. he didn't deserve to die. what you did was evil. >> sounded like a different woman. >> it was totally a different woman. i was looking her in the eyes and it didn't look like the patty i knew anymore. she cocked the gun and told me to get on my knees. i told her, why do you want to execute me right now? she said, just get on your knees, started yelling at me and i told her, no. what is going on right now? if you're going to kill me, just kill me now.
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i can't remember the other babble she was saying, but she started pointing the gun at herself and i said, no, stop that. don't do that either. what are you doing right now? if you want to be with me, you need to stop this. and let's go right now. >> didn't it occur to you, jaime, at that point, to leave yourself? you managed to prevent her from shooting you. why the hell didn't you just run? >> i kept feeling the love i had for her. >> the love? she just tried to shoot you to death. >> i'm asking myself that same question. >> good question. >> i was scared. there was fear in me. there was much fear in me. but i still felt so much love for her that this had to -- it was going to be okay. she's coming back to her senses. she gave me water. she gave me some food. that's what made me continue going with her is because she was taking care of me again.
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>> did she tell you she loved you? >> yes. she told me how sorry she was, how she doesn't remember shooting me. >> at the time you really believed that, huh? >> yes. >> and so they headed out on the road, eastbound on interstate 80, patty behind the wheel, jaime riding shotgun. they stopped for some gauze to stuff into jaime's bullet holes and went on an 18-hour drive as the kid's life slowly oozed away. after the night in the motel, this murderous odd couple was in custody. and jaime, so close to death, was in a confessional mood. >> i just lost -- i just lost all sense. and i went and i bashed him in the head. >> where was he? >> he was just watching tv. >> he told them how he murdered that good man, ron presba, as if
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to free his conscience of its sinful burdens. >> and i remember the last things he just said was, like, he asked -- he asked why. and i was so furious with him at the time, and i told him, you raped patty. you beat her. >> and yet, still willing at the end of his 2 1/2 hour confession to play the chump for patty because even after the murder, the shooting, the betrayal, he still loved her. >> i don't know what else i can tell you. i just loved her very much. you know that i would have done anything for her. i know this is going to sound weird. >> what's that? >> but as much as she's done to
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me, if she's here, would there be any chance i can just see her? >> not at this point. not at this point. >> i feel for her. you know, she really -- she really made me feel like i was her husband. she was my wife. >> the question now, would he be willing to take the fall before a judge and jury? coming up, if jaime's mood in court was any guide, patty didn't have a worry in the world. >> he looked at her with such lust. >> when "the seduction" continues.
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hang town, the old gold rush name for the seat of el dorado county. this is where jaime and patty were held during the trial, a community with a single jail for both men and women. and in our story that matters. why? because of a certain feature of the building's plumbing system, which gave patty the opportunity to crawl right back into jaime's pliable mind and, of course, his heart. >> if both you and the person that are parallel with the toilet empty out the water enough, you can speak through it as though you're right in the same room. it's very clear. it's incredible. >> separated by both brick and bar, jaime and patty were now ironically closer than ever. >> the communication with her was intoxicating me so much that i started to believe everything
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again that she was telling me about the man. >> what did you say to each other through that tube? >> a bunch of i love yous and sorries and we'll get through this together. i promised patty that i'll make you walk, you'll get away with this. >> an empty promise? well, perhaps not. much of the case against patty would be based on jaime's confession. >> she said, okay, you have to make it look like an accident. >> she purchased the life insurance with the purpose of cashing in on it -- >> cashing in on it. >> by him being murdered and you guys making it look like an accident? >> correct. >> but now patty was telling jaime just what he should say in court, to provide a match for the tale patty told detective lensing back in salt lake city. >> she admitted she was involved in the whole thing, but at the very last moment, she called it off because she couldn't do that
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to her husband. and then from that point on, jaime ramos was the one that continued with the plan and killed her husband so she was not involved. >> and then came and kidnapped her. >> exactly. to get rid of the only other witness he had. and she was defending herself by shooting him. >> she would be the hero, that she killed the person who killed her husband. >> the d.a. of el dorado county, vern pierson, says without jaime's testimony, convicting patty would be troublesome. >> there is a big difference between knowing and believing that somebody is criminally responsible and being able to prove it. >> and so night after night, patty's disembodied instructions and her sweet nothings echoed down the plumbing and into jaime's cell. >> she promised if she walks, she'll marry me and she'll visit me every day, she'll put money in my books. >> you were prepared to go along with that? >> i was prepared to go along.
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>> spend the rest of your life in prison. >> spend the rest of my life in prison. >> to be visited by patty. >> to be visited by patty. >> his robotic devotion was obvious to all who saw the two in court. >> the way he looked at her, i wanted to throw up. he looked at her with such lust and to sit there and look at this woman, the way that he did, was -- it was gut wrenching for us as a family. that she had that much control over somebody, and still did after she tried to kill him. >> you couldn't see a movie like this. >> james clark, jaime's court appointed attorney, says he's never had a case like this in 30 years of practicing law. >> i like the kid. but, you know what, i also like the victim. he seemed to be a good guy. >> what is your assessment of her? >> my viewpoint of her is she is -- she's a reptile. she has no heart, no feelings, no emotions, only one person she's interested in, that's her. >> ever seen this kind of manipulation before?
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>> never to the extent that i saw it here. >> what did you say to him about that? >> what can you say to anybody who is in love with somebody? i mean, it is irrational. >> if there was to be any hope for his client, clark says, jaime would need to tell the truth, to take the stand at trial and actually testify against patty. >> the guilt was overwhelming, the issue was how he was going to be punished. that was the issue. >> so clark made a call, to the one person who had the power to break patty's spell. jaime's grandmother. >> i brought the grandmother up here, along with the two aunts and they told him to tell the truth and do the right thing. >> my family told me, when have >> my family told me, when have we ever lied to you? when have we ever hurt you?
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it made me realize this is the truth, it is the truth. i have to tell the truth. i can't stop lying. i can't stop denying this. and that's when that moment forward i stopped contacting her in every way. >> and instead gave a truthful account of ron's murder before grand jury. >> one of the grand juror said i don't think that young man would have harmed a fly in its life, but for the fact that he ran into patty. >> here's where the car went over? >> yes. >> then he showed the detectives the 14-mile route he took with ron presba's corporation pressed against him in the suburban. >> a little further ahead is where i got rid of the ladder and such. >> and next they searched for a chair, ladder, rug, bloody evidence jaime said he jettisoned along the roadside. they came up empty, until they stopped at a small glade along chili bar road. >> where he's at back there, that's the area, shouldn't be
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further than that. >> and there, buried in the leaves, detective lensing found something. >> looks like a blue rug hidden underneath, like somebody intentionally put leaves over the top of it. this is the rug that ron presba was on at the time he was murdered. and you can see some of the remnants of his blood in those moldy spots there. >> now, jaime had to prepare himself for the day when he would have to take the witness stand, face patty, the woman he still loved, and condemn her. >> i was telling myself i was good to do my best not to look at her, that if the only time i had to look at her was when they told me if i had to point, which usually i see in movies, that can you please point to, you know, the defendant, and then --
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>> couldn't imagine doing that. >> i couldn't imagine doing that, but i felt like, okay, i have to do that real quick and then i can look at my family. >> but, three days before the trial, patty suddenly and without explanation pleaded guilty to all charges, first degree murder of ron, attempted murder of jaime. >> when i found out it was true, this weight just went off my shoulders. and i thank god for that. >> why patty pleaded guilty is a mystery. >> i think at some point she probably had been lying to her own family all these months about what actually happened, and she knew this goes to trial, they would learn the truth, and what her real responsibility was in this case. >> and it was so against her
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>> and it was so against her character as a person, i was shocked. i -- it was good to hear her say guilty. i don't care if it was for her own reasons, whatever she had to do for herself, to hear that out of her mouth was good. >> a month later in a packed courtroom, patty, aloof and alone, was sentenced, 40 years to life. detective mike lensing was there to watch. >> this woman is the most evil and cold hearted murderer that i've dealt with. >> why did you hate him so much? >> i don't know that she hated him. she just loved herself more. >> and jaime? he too pleaded guilty to first degree murder and while casting shamed penitent looks at his
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family was sentenced to 25 years to life. but before being led off to prison, he agreed to meet with ron's daughters, april and misty. >> he explained that the little amount of time that he knew my dad he was also growing to love him, and it is hard to hear that from somebody that brutally murdered him. >> that's the hardest part for me, that he would still do this, and still take him away knowing the type of person he was, and to follow through with it. >> the forest home where their father cared for them is a dark place now, an ugly place. >> my dad lost his life in here, it is horrible. i want the house to be burnt down. there is so much evil that took place in here that it is just not comfortable. >> how did she do it? how did this woman exert such a magical hold over any man, let alone this one. and yet she did, maybe still does. do you love her sometimes still?
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>> for more on this story, logon to our website at a wealthy candy heiress, a smooth talking swindler. >> he wined and dined her, stole her heart, stole her money. she vanished. >> she literally vanished into thin air. >> he admits he was a con man. was he also a killer. investigating a legendary unsolved crime.
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