tomorrow at 6:00 a.m., check out bloombergpolitics.com for the republican results in our brand-new iowa poll. >> and tomorrow night, we'll be live with all due respect in pensacola, florida, with donald trump. sayonara. "hardball with chris matthews" starts right now. it's state of the union night and this is "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews up in new york. president obama is getting ready to deliver his final state of the union address and the breaking news late today is that ten united states sailors are being held by the government of iran. american officials are optimistic, however, that iran will release the service people soon. for an update, let's go to nbc's ali arouzi in tehran. ali, do we have real optimism that we'll get our people back? >> reporter: well, chris, this

is a very good question. this has happened before in 2007. the revolutionary guard had arrested some british sailors, but they had been held here for two weeks. we're getting snippets of information here from the fares news agency arresting they have arrested ten u.s. sailors, nine men and one woman. the revolutionary guard said that they intentionally strayed into iranian waters, it said that the ship had a .50-caliber gun on it, they had gps systems, they were snooping around and they knew what they were doing. but as you mentioned, this comes as a very sensitive time, as iran wants to implement the nuclear deal and i'm sure president rowhani wants to sort this out as soon as possible. but let's not forget, he's not the commander in chief. the revolutionary guard take their orders from the supreme leader. so i'm hsure rowhani is making huge diplomatic effort to get them free, but the ball isn't in his court. the supreme leader will make that decision. having said that, before the nuclear deal, chris, there was

no contact between the u.s. and iran. now we hear that secretary kerry and foreign minister zarif are talking, so that might speed up the process. chris? >> well, this would be quite an example, if it's a good one, coming that we'll have better resolution of these kind of situations. thank you so much, ali arouzi, in tehran. now to the big story in washington tonight, the president's state of the union. there's no way to undersell it or oversell it. the conflict we're going to see is one we're going to witness quite clearly. it's the stark contrast between a president defending the way things have been headed the last seven years and are still headed and the critics out there, republican candidates for president, conservative and right-wing media voices, who say everything, to put it bluntly, sucks. have i put that too strongly? i don't think so. "make america great again" is the sharpest possible state that we're not great, not by a long shot. and tonight one man has to get up there before the united states congress and say it ain't so. that what donald trump and ted cruz and the rest of the wannabes are saying in rough but

relentless course does not define america as we enter the year 2016. nbc's kristin welker is in des moines, iowa, tonight. howard fineman is global editorial director for the "huffington post" and an msnbc political analyst. the other big news tonight, by the way, is the battle heating up on the democratic side. polls show senator bernie sanders surging in iowa and new hampshire. and last night, vice president joe biden seemed to enter the fray. he was asked why secretary clinton is struggling. let's watch him. >> bernie is speaking to a yearning that is deep and real, and he has credibility on it. and that is the absolute enormous concentration of wealth in a small group of people with the middle class now being able to be shown being left out. >> but hillary's talking about that as well? >> well, but it's relatively new for hillary to talk about that.

hillary's focus has been on other things up until now, and that's been bernie's "no one questions bernie's authenticity on those issues." >> and they question her's? >> well, i think they question everybody's who hasn't been talking about it all along. but i think she's come forward with some really, really thoughtful approaches to deal with the issue. >> wow. this morning, the vice president, joe biden, backtracked a bit from that criticism of hillary clinton. >> for the last five years, she's been engaged in foreign poli policy. for four years, this has been bernie's mantra from the time he's gotten involved. even when inequality wasn't as serious as it was today, it was his drum beat. that's what i meant. and he's coming up with some very good ideas, but bernie is pushing the envelope on this. and for everyone. >> so, kristen welk we are, is the vice president fishing in troubled waters here? >> reporter: well, look, the clinton campaign, of course,

when you ask them about this, they say, well, he cleaned it up today on the "today" show. there's no doubt, though, he is touching a nerve with the clinton campaign. secretary clinton today on the campaign trail very defensive on this issue of wall street and the fact that she was making the case she's been tough on wall street as well. no coincidence there, chris. i think what's so fascinating, though, is that joe biden, when he announced that he wasn't going to run for president said, but he's still going to be part of the conversation. and i think that that is what we saw play out today. he still wants to be a part of this debate. and clearly, you heard him say it. he thinks that bernie sanders is the one who's pushing the envelope on this really important issue to democrats. >> howard, if i were hillary clinton, i would be quite angry with the vice president of the united states. is it her fault for not being nice enough to him, offering him something in a new term, that he might, like, secretary of state, something to get him on board. because he's not on board. that's clear today. >> not only is he not on board, chris, at the moment, when polls are showing hillary teetering on

the edge of a cliff in both iowa and new hampshire, he practically shoved her right over into the chasm. so, yes, a lot of diplomatic work should have been done. clearly should have been done. and i think he signaled quite a while ago that he wanted it to happen. remember when he got out, and even before he got out, he was meeting with bernie sanders, he was talking about bernie sanders, that was an open invitation, i think, to hillary and bill, to make nice. the fact is that joe biden has no love lost in him for the clintons. but the clintons who are usually good at approaching people who don't like them and winning them over, haven't done that with joe biden, and i think that was a big mistake, as you point out. >> what is it, he's not ivy league enough for them? why don't they offer him some -- let me go back to kristen on this. why don't they offer him state or something for a few years. normally in politics, when two people want the same job, one moves the other one out by giving them a piece of the

action. >> reporter: i think, chris, remember, when you go back, there was this big question mark about whether vice president joe biden was going to be one of her biggest competitors and she spent a lot of time trying to box him out. and she did that by being aggressive, not by bringing him into the fold. i think the interesting thing will be in the coming weeks and months, do we start to see that happen? it's possible that we do, because of these comments that the vice president made today, which, as howard points out, could potentially be damaging, particularly in a state like iowa, where just today, chris, a poll came out that showed bernie sanders in the lead. >> look at these numbers. you're right, kristen. hillary clinton continues to lead in national polls by a wide margin, but new polls in the early states of iowa and new hampshire show her campaign has seriously slipped. according to the newest quinnipiac poll just out today, hillary clinton trails bernie sanders by five points among likely democratic caucusgoers in iowa. that's a nine-point decline.

hillary clinton has dropped overall by seven points. the latest nbc maris poll shows hillary clinton leading sanders. in new hampshire, a new monmouth poll shows sanders beating clinton by 14 points. he's gained 8 point s since november while clinton has lost 9. howard, these numbers are going in one direction, towards sanders. it's pretty clear he's got the momentum. has she made the mistake of going into cruise control, by assuming she had knocked him out of the race a couple of months ago in that first debate and she could go back to move along without a lot of edge to her message? >> well, she, of all people, should know that a week is a month and a month is a lifetime in politics. so, yes, that's the first thing. the second thing, chris, as you and i were discussing last week, the mood of the american public is so anti-institution, so anti-elite, so anti-establishment, so

anti-familiar political figures, and the clintons are in the wrong place at the wrong time. they're swimming upstream against this tide of resentment, against establishments. and what was happening on the republican side is now also happening big-time on the democratic side. in the piece i wrote for "huffington post" around the world, i said that this was the thing to watch. and i think it's what's happening. the other thing you have to realize is, no candidate in modern times has lost contested races in both iowa and new hampshire and gone on to win the nomination. bill clinton did it in 1992. he lost iowa and new hampshire. but iowa wasn't really a contest, because tom harkin, a local senator, was in the race. you lose both iowa and new hampshire in a real contest, that's unchartered territory and that's what hillary's facing right now. >> and for her to say, "it's time to get real" has a lot of irony in it. you could argue she doesn't see

the situation as it's developing and leaning left. thank you so much, kristin welker out there in the cold and thank you, howard fineman. i'm joined right now by senator cory booker of new jersey. thank you for joining us. it's rare to get you on, i want to get you on the big story tonight, which is ten u.s. sailors have been taken prisoner. i don't know if that's the right world, but they're certainly being held by the iranian government. what should we be doing? >> well, right now we should be making sure that their release is certain. this is a very frustrating few weeks with iran. whether it's the testing of ballistic missiles, whether it's been their engagement in some of the other stabilizing activities in the region with syria and yemen, and now we see this, what i think is an affront. but the obama administration, i think, is handling this well right now. the focus is not on the politics, not on the noise. it's making sure that our sailors are safe and secure and obviously returned. but it's something we're going to continue to watch. >> let me ask you about the president's goal tonight.

every president after serving two terms wants to have his party hold the white house. that's the way you say you won. it's how reagan got george bush senior elected and he made a point he was still a popular figure coming out of office. how does president obama seal the deal or try to seal the deal for a democrat this next november? >> i think he's got to be and he will be very presidential tonight. i think he's going to remind folks of how far we've come. remember, this is a guy who took over a presidency, when not only the nation's economy, was the global economy was in financial free fall from financial markets to unemployment to the housing market. and here we now have been seeing steady economic gain. and we do have a lot of insecurity, whether it's insecurity that's coming from stagnating wages or the insecurity that's coming just from a lot of the things going on around the globe. but i think he's going to really speak to those issues that resonate with americans, bring us together and say, we've come a mighty long way, but here's my vision for where we need to go in the next year and the years beyond that. and i think giving that kind of

momentum of vision for the next year plus five, i think will really help hand the baton to whoever is the eventual candidate for the democratic party. >> senator cory booker of new jersey, thank you for coming on tonight, on state of the union night. coming up, two competing visions for america. later this hour, donald trump offering his plan to make america great again. that's his phrase. and our top story tonight, of course, president obama set to make his final state of the union. less than two hours from now. we've got top pollsters from both sides of the aisle here to weigh in on what's actually the state of the union, according to the american people. this is "hardball," the plax. discover card

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in a saturday night skit. >> talk about a putdown. welcome back to "hardball." that was president obama joking, if you will, about whether he could ever see republican front-runner donald trump actually delivering a state of the union. well, with his own big speech less than two hours away, the president's challenge tonight is to provide a credible and optimistic counterweight. both credible and optimistic to the sort of funeral dirge out there we're hearing from the republicans like donald trump. in doing so, he'll have to communicate why the state of the union is better than people think it is, or might be. here's how the president outlined that objective himself. >> politics in washington are so much more divided than the american people are. and part of what i want to do in this last address is to remind people, you know what, we've got a lot of good things going for us. and if we can get our politics right, it turns out that we're not as divided on the ideological spectrum as people make us out to be. >> a recent poll by nbc news and

"esquire" magazine shows why that might be a tough sell. 68% of respondents say get angry about something they've read in the news at least once a day. 54% say their financial situation now is worse now than they thought it would be. 55% say the united states is no longer the most powerful country in the world. and when asked whether the american dream is still alive and well, 52% say "not anymore." those are their words. in contrast with president obama, trump on sunday, this sunday, said the state of the union is a mess. let's listen. >> right now, the state of our union is a mess. we can't beat isis. our military is falling back. it's not being properly taken care of. our vets aren't being properly taken care of. obamacare, as you know, is going to fail probably soon, and probably in '17, our health care. we don't have borders. we don't have anything. i think if i'm there in two years and i'm making a speech, i say, we're getting better fast. >> well, trump has made no

secret of the fact he's running against everything that president obama stands for. and as we speak tonight, by the way, trump's holding a rally in iowa, essentially giving his own pr pro-buttal to the president's address. i'm joined by katy tur and richard allen, and democratic pollster, cornell belchebelcher they're all here. i want to go to katy tur. are you there? >> reporter: yeah, i'm here. can you hear me? >> i don't see you. oh, there you are. what do you make of the fact that the south carolina governor came out and took a shot -- nikki haley took a shot, basically at trump and his immigration attitudes. here it is. let me give it to you right now. >> reporter: yeah. >> she's giving the republican response tonight. and here's a quote from her. move the prompter up and we'll get to it. here it is. keep going, keep going. here's an excerpt. "during anxious times, it can be tempting to follow the siren call of the angriest voices. we must resist that temptation. no one who is willing to work

hard, abide by our laws, and love our traditions should ever feel unwelcome in this country." now, she's the daughter of indian immigrants, people from india, and she doesn't like -- well, she's saying so -- the trump attitude about immigrants. and i thought she was on the list for vp. go ahead. >> reporter: well, what i want to say is the gop was -- nikki haley is who the gop was hoping to get for this election, youth, diversity, inclusion. instead they have a front runner who's a 69-year-old white man who's calling for a ban on muslims coming into america. it's everything that they didn't want for this election, because of what happened last cycle. romney not winning the latino vote. they wanted to be more inclusive this time around. obviously, that's not happening. they underestimated just how frustrated and angry their base of support was, but drump drump s donald trump saw that, he saw an opening, and he's been able to speak to people who feel like this economy has passed them by,

they don't feel like president obama represents them or is fighting for them. and that's why you see these massive crowds wherever we go, in places like iowa where we are right now, in new hampshire, south carolina, arizona, illinois, all across the country, you're seeing this. whether or not where we're at in the majority of the country, president obama certainly doesn't think so. he doesn't think this country is divide ed as it's made out to b. and i talked to supporters at this rally and he thinks we are pretty divided. i asked them if there's anything president obama has done over the last seven years that they think is good or great that they agree with. none of them said yes. he said the only thing that he could do that would be right tonight would be to resign. >> thank you, katy tur, for that resounding rejection of the president. richard doorman, you're the most objective person here. let me start with you. you have a study to put out. this anger, what impressed me in your report that came out recently, it wasn't just white women, and i hate talking

tribalisticly, but white women. why are white women angry? >> they're not just disappointed in the loss of the american dream, but they also look across the headlines in their newsfeeds and they see police discrimination against blacks and discrimination against immigrants, but they have this empathy that's fueling their anger. >> what can the president say tonight? >> he can continue to try to highlight the positive, but as we've seen with donald trump, that's just not going to sell. i think what makes "make america great again" is such an effective slogan is that it really resonates with people -- >> that we're not great. >> that we're not great and he can lead us back to greatness. >> cornell, i'll go to you and work my way back to kelly ann. i've noticed in the polling today, which staggered me, that men, and they're democratic men voting in the primaries and the caucuses in iowa, are turning to bernie dramatically. dramatically. and turning away from a very known product, hillary clinton. what's that about?

>> well, i think -- >> men. >> it's a tough time to be part of the establishment on either side of the aisle. i think you see an enormous sort of push for change that's not only coming from republicans, but also from democrats. and i think any establishment candidate -- i mean, look at the races that happened this past year, where you had incumbents arguably with fairly good records, who struggle to win re-election in a lot of cities. there is a -- there's an anxiousness that's sweeping across america, and it's not just on the right, although i will say, it is uniquely different on the right. and there is a -- >> why are you hiding from my question? >> well, i don't think -- i think i answered your question. >> why are men, democratic registered voters, moving away from hillary clinton dramatically now toward bernie sanders? why is there a gender split here? >> well, chris, there's usually a gender split. >> dramatic within the democratic party? >> -- and our politics. i mean, i would have to see how

that holds up over time. right now, certainly, senator sanders is getting a bump in polls and certainly he's doing well, and he's doing well in iowa, and he's doing well in new hampshire. i think that's more of a -- sort of an anti-establishment kind of thing going on than i think is gender specific. >> well, this is gender -- these numbers are very gender specific. kelly ann, you're a person of the right or center-right, i can't ever tell, somewhere in there, but why are democratic men who are registered to vote in caucuses and -- why are they swinging all the way to a man who calls himself a democratic socialist? that's not a new -- that's an old phrase, we've always known what it meant. it meant more government, probably more taxes, more stuff from washington. yet democratic men are saying, that's what i want. >> there are several reasons. >> or are they turning against hillary? >> some of them are truly economically vulnerable. and you see that these men are economically vulnerable. who are we talking about? the guys who are blue-collar workers, non-college educated

households, in whom these jobs are not coming back. the other thing is, hillary clinton hadded a hard time with men in the 2008 elections. if you go back and look at who voted for her, the idea was that she was going to run the tables among women, and women comprise about 55 to 56% of democratic primary voters. in my republican party, it's the opposite. women are about 45 to 46%. she can run the tables among women and make up the deficits among men. she didn't run the tables among women and she's never been very attractive to men. the other thing is, cornell is absolutely right. in an anti-washington, anti-establishment quest for fresh blood and new ideas environment, hillary clinton reeks of washington and the establishment. and i don't think she doesn't benefit from what most female candidates benefit from. most female candidates are seen as warm, and fresh and new. >> i always thought women tended to be more pro-democrat, pro-government. the challenge to a woman, a wife with kids is health care,

education, needing a good public school, needing child care. needing all those -- it's very hard for that to add up to the regular family and they do need help. and men say, oh, well, i'll just keep out of the u.n. and they won't be focused on this issue. >> a lot of men have not done well over the obama years. remember, it was called the she recovery and the mansession. >> you know so much, thank you very much. cornell, thank you, sir. once you come back with that gender difference, because i'm stunned that the men are going left and the women are going -- staying center. why are the men going away from hillary and off to the left? it's a great question for me. up next, he says he'll boycott the republican undercard debate thursday night, two nights from now. senator rand paul is coming here to talk to us about why he's not going to the little kids' table. that's what it's called these days. the little kid table you go to when you don't make the big one. this is "hardball," the place for politics. i've been called a control freak... i like to think of myself as more of a control...

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welcome back to "hardball." in two days, the republican presidential field will take the stage for their first debate of 2016. and this time the stage will feature fewer candidates. fox business is hosting thursday night's debate in north charleston, south carolina, and the network determined the lineup by selecting the top six candidates in national polls along with anyone placing in the top five in iowa or new hampshire. and among the candidates who made the cut for the prime-time debate, donald trump will take center stage, flanked by marco rubio, ted cruz, ben carson, chris christie, jeb bush, and jeff kasich. but these new criteria sent rand paul and carly fiorina down to the undercard debate, along with mike huckabee and rick santorum. rand paul has vowed to sit out the jrnd card debate and joins me now. you represent libertarianism and

against the regime change policy of the current president. how will those thoughts affect the thinking thursday night? >> i think we had a great debate last time when they chose to have me in the debate. it may be the most important question we have in the middle east right now. should we topple assad? will it make the situation better, more chaotic, will it make us safer or more at risk for terrorism? and without me, i'm the loudest voice in the republican party saying we shouldn't topple assad. i'm the loudest voice, frankly, saying the government shouldn't collect all your phone records. so without me, i think they would lose a lot of the libertarian supporters you would think they would want in the republican party. >> let me ask you about iran today, a tricky situation, dicey, you could say, we had ten sailors out there, including a woman. the official word is that their boat had mechanical problems, one of the boat, and the two boats pulled alongside -- we don't know, somehow they found their way into iranian waters, and of course the iranian government jumped on them and are holding them.

>> but i think the good news is, they're talking about getting it resolved within 24 hours or so. and if they do and they're starting to act like a civilized nation, i'm not say they have in the past or that they always do, but if they do act in a civilized manner, i think maybe it's an indication, maybe, that things are going to change. >> you know, you talk like somebody who doesn't want war. some people in your party, you know them well, the hawks, the john mccains and the lindsey grahams, the neocons, they're called, they seem to want to get into a fighting mode like they're schoolyard kids, yeah, let's fight. you ready to fight, let's fight. you hope you can avoid wars like stupid wars in the past, where people have got into stupid fights over incidents like this. >> i think that's the voice that will be missing on the stage with them excluding me, like, what's chris christie want to do? he'll show you he's eager to shoot down russian airplanes. but most people beyond third grade would think, that's a really naive approach and that might start a war with russian.

>> wouldn't that be great if we had him during the cuban missile crisis? we would have blown up the whole world? >> republican, democrat, or independent, most people should be alarmed at people like chris christie who would eagerly want to engage with russia. but also, look, donald trump has no idea what the nuclear triad is. and what does he say when he finds out what it is, he says, our biggest problem in the past is we have not been willing enough to use it. that was from his spokesman. he has yet to deny it. >> he didn't know that submarine launched missiles and land launched missiles -- >> it's not that complicated. but now that he does know what it is, it's that we haven't used it enough. >> let's go to something that a lot of our viewers care about, not just minorities, but progressives and you. our jails are filled, our prisons are filled. people with lives -- probably learning how to be bad guys in prison, a lot of them, right? >> you know, i was always -- >> you want to fix that? >> i was always opposed to the war on drugs for many different reasons. but i read michelle alexander's

book a few years ago about the mass incarceration and the new jim crow and i became very aware of the racial disparity on the war on drugs. i've always thought the war on drugs was bad, but i've now figured out that 300 people in jail are black or brown -- >> why do they get picked up for drugs? because white people use their drugs in their home? >> there's probably still some leftover racism and discrimination. however, a lot of it is, many of the police now are african-american and the police chiefs are, the mayors are. but there is more crime in the city and there's more crime where there's poverty. and there's a higher percentage of african-americans in the city. so, some of it's inadvertent, but it's still a problem. and it's -- if you look at marijuana use, white kids are using marijuana about the same rate as black kids are, but in some cities, it's 15 to 1 arrests of black kids versus white kids. >> they must not be walking around and carrying it or there is racial discrimination, it's one of the two. >> it's a little bit of both if. >> we'll miss you thursday

night. maybe you should come on here? >> we'll be loud and proud somewhere. >> okay, thank you. you have a voice. still ahead, it could be a subway series. we've got new york senator chuck schumer coming here to talk about the prospects of two home bud buddies. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. our next item is a genuine "name your price" tool. this highly sought-after device from progressive can be yours for... twenty grand? -no! we are giving it away for just 3 easy payments of $4.99 plus tax! the lines are blowing up! we've got deborah from poughkeepsie. flo: yeah, no, it's flo. you guys realize anyone can use the "name your price" tool for free on progressive.com, right? [ laughing nervously ] ♪ [ pickles whines ] i know, it's like they're always on television. what? different things his new smart phone does... ...it reminded him of his magic eraser. it's not just for marks on walls... it's tough on kitchen grease... and bathroom grime too.

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you heard what happened. iran took over two of our boats. they said they're going to release them. oh, isn't that nice? they're going to release them. this isn't the same country. when i heard that just happened, just happened. it literally just happened, and i think it's not so good.

it's just -- it's just an indication of where the hell we're going. i mean, hopefully they get released and fast. but it seems to be an indication of where we're going. that iran deal is the um theest deal i think i've ever seen. >> back back to "hardball." earlier today, iranian forces did seize american sailors in the persian gulf, ten of them, including one woman, on iran's farsi island pictured there in the persian gulf. white house spokesman josh earnest told msnbc that u.s. authorities have been assured the americans are safe. secretary of state john kerry has spoken by phone with his counterpart, iran's foreign minister, to try to resolve the incident. well, this latest development came as president obama was putting the final touches on his state of the union. and joining me right now is "washington post" columnist, eugene robinson. gene, here we go with a little bit of a party favor or a door prize for donald trump tonight. >> yeah, absolutely. i mean, this just plays into trump's wheelhouse. he's been inveighing against the

iran deal in every speech for months now. and once again, another provocative act by the iranians -- >> serves his -- >> certainly serves him. >> let's talk about the poll you came in here with tonight, the cbs poll. the fact that this national number between hillary clinton and bernie sanders is tight. >> it has tightened dramatically. a new "new york times"/cbs poll just came out. hillary clinton, 48%. bernie sanders, 41%. >> striking distance. >> right, the last -- in their last poll, there was a 20-point gap, that's down to, you know, a seven-point gap. >> well, we're two guys, maybe that's unfair for two guys to have a conversation about anything in politics anymore. we'll have to broaden that conversation very quickly. the but the fact is she's holding her numbers among women and men are going to bernie. because of the needs of health care, public education, all those needs that are chronic with women. and the men can say, well, i don't need that, but the mothers and the wives do. >> i think the technical term

for it is a very strange year, chris. strange things are happening on both sides, in both parties. among a number of -- >> it is anti-hillary or pro-bernie? >> well, we don't know yet. i mean, that's going to take some reporting to figure out. there's -- look, there's a lot of pro-bernie out there. and i've been hearing from a lot of young people, including some young people in my family -- >> me too. >> -- you know, you're not enough paying enough attention to bernie. watch bernie. bernie is happening. and it seems like bernie's timing has been pretty good. because he seems to be rising at a good time. at a time when insurgent candidates rise and they can steal iowa, they can steal new hampshire, and then you've got a whole new race. >> the interesting thing is, he's not exactly today in television. he's not cool. he's very hot. you know, he's got that larry david aspect to him. but i notice when hillary clinton, the former secretary of state, seemed to knock him off in that first debate. she just put him away, when he said, okay, no more about

benghazi, blah, blah, blah -- the e-mail, rather. and then he came back. he has come back since. there's not an even art to this. he went down and now he's coming back. the question is, is it because bill clinton's become more evident in the news? is it because there's too much talk in the magazines about hillary land and women around her, not enough talk about men as well? i don't know. >> i think the debate is a good format for her, just in general, because of her vast experience, because she's quick on her feet, because she's got facts and figures that she just kind of, you know, just like a ticker tape, that, you know, she's got it all. >> has done her homework. >> so she always shows well in the debates. in between the debates, i think it's bernie and his people out there working. and, look, it is a good year to not be a traditional politician. she cannot claim to be anything but an establishment politician. now, she has the distinction of being potentially the first woman president, but, she certainly a part of -- a

traditional politician. bernie sanders is not. this is a very good year to be untraditional. >> i loved your column today. let me ask you about joe biden now. that's the new -- joe biden is out there playing with this. he must know the numbers. he sees them. he sees them tightening up. and he's playing this thing. what's he up to? why's he taken the side of bernie, it seems? >> well, you know, number one, i think he was kind of doing what i do. he was being an analyst, right. and he was asking questions -- >> is that how hillary looks at it? >> and he gave an honest answer, right? >> i don't think so. >> i think it's clear -- >> he's keeping himself available. >> did he got not treated well by her when he decided to pull out? did she say, i'll find a use for you in the next term? usually you do that in big city politics, you say, okay, you're not going to run against me, i'll have something for you. >> i don't think he was ill treated. no, i think -- look, look. if bernie sanders wins iowa and new hampshire, and it looks as if the democratic party is in

for a, you know, a huge donnie brooke, if potentially, the party is going to nominate a democratic socialist from vermont, against who. donald trump? i mean, you know, joe biden's got to be sitting there and thinking, hold on for a minute, you know? >> let me go to a pro. chuck schumer, senator charles schumer is the senior senator from new york. he joins us right now. senator schumer, we're talking about the strangest situation that bernie sanders, the democratic socialist and independent in the united states senate is within striking distance of hillary clinton. what do you make of it? >> you can't make much of it. numbers have gone up and down for each candidate. i think hillary's going to be the nominee. i have very little doubt about that. she's running a good, strong, long-distance race. she's putting all the fundamentals in place that will help her win not only the primary, but the general election. so those of us who are hillary supporters have confidence in her and are not at all rattled

by any of these polls. >> what's the difference between a socialist and a democrat? >> oh, it depends how you define each one, doesn't it? >> well, you do it. >> well, i'm not going to get into it. but -- >> why not? nobody will -- debbie wasserman schultz, the chair of the democratic party won't answer my question. you guys are well schooled in political language and nomenclature. you're quite capable of defining the difference between a socialist, self-described and a democrat self-described. what is it? >> i have nothing bad to say about bernie sanders. i think bernie is the real deal. >> okay. >> he's been talking this way since the day he's got to the senate. this is not a contrivance, he believes in what he does. but i think hillary will beat him in the primaries, she'll be the nominee, and my guess is bernie will be supporting her in the general election. >> would it be helpful to change the name of the democratic party to the social democratic party? would that help improve the definitions for everybody? >> i think we're happy with our

present name. >> you've told me so much, senator chuck schumer. up next, amy klobuchar is coming here with a laook at the president's legacy. this is "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands

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morning ted! scott! ready to hit some balls? sure. ooh! hey buddy, what's up? this is what it can be like to have shingles. oh, man. a painful, blistering rash. i keep thinking how did he get this, he's in such good shape. if you had chickenpox, the shingles virus is already inside you. 1 in 3 people will get shingles in their lifetime. your immune system weakens as you get older and it loses its ability to keep the shingles virus in check. after almost 3 weeks, i just really wanted to give it a shot. the shingles rash can last up to 30 days. you know, i'm not feeling it today. don't worry about it buddy. we'll do it another day.

don't wait until you or someone you care about develops shingles. talk to your doctor or pharmacist today about a vaccine that can help prevent shingles. we're back. well, tonight's a ritual unlike any other in american politics. in one hour, the president will deliver his final state of the union address. and for president obama, the legacy he leaves, his successes, failures, and challenges are etched alongside these historic nights. well, as we await the president tonight, let's take a look back at the road he's traveled these past seven years. >> we will rebuild. we will recover. and the united states of america will emerge stronger than before. i have never been more hopeful about america's future than i am tonight. despite our hardships, our union

is strong. we do not give up. we do not quit. we do not allow fear or division to break our spirit. governing to break our spirit. governing will be a shared responsibility between parties. new laws will only pass with support from democrats and republicans. we will moved forward together. or not at all. >> for the first time in two decades, osama bin laden is not a threat to this country. [ applause ] together, we have cleared away the rubble of crisis. we can say we are newed confident that the state of our union is stronger. america does not stand still and neither will i. so wherever and whenever i ask

take steps without legislation to expand opportunity for more americanfully, that's what i'm going to do. the shadow of crisis has passed. and the state of the eun is strong. we have a laid a new foundation. the right of the future is ours to write. let's begin this new chapter together and let's start to work right now. thank you. god bless you. good bles this country we love. thank you. [ applause [ applause ] >> we are joined by a democrat from minnesota, it's great to have you on tonight. a big night. >> thanks, chris. it is a big night. >> put it together, you can imagine being in this situation, i think, having to sort of win back the credibility and the optimism, put them together, actually, credibility and optimism of the american presidency. >> reporter: well, i think in this case, you have seen the president just watching those speech, you are reminded, i

remember him saying this is not the. he wished for. several months into office the company said more jobs and the people in the state of vermont. now we had 70 months of state job growth. he's cut the employment in half. our work, our companies have done all the front line work they needed to do. but the president has worked very hard on policies that work for america. i also think we will hear about that tonight. we will also hear about the challenges ahead. and i think it's very important that he does both things, that he takes us on that journey from where he started, but that he also looks to the future. he will be handing this off to the next president. but i think it's important he layout those challenges for the next year as well as the years to come. because there is a lot of american people na are still hurting and a lot of people that need help. >> why do you think 70% of people tell the "wall street journal" and nbc news, our pomsters, that the country is the headed in the wrong direction, right now? 70%? >> it's clear to me, i'm

bringing an unemployed steel worker today as my guest to the state of the union because of what we have seen with illegal dumping of steel from china. we have a plot lot of people the hurting. even though you don't have a job, despite the unemployment rate. or they have to work one or two or three jobs just to send their kids to college. so that has been a quality issue t. fact that people feel that these institutions are further away from them. that's what i meant when i said there are challenges ahead. he has to not only strike that balance of saying, naysayers, we made a lot of progress. our country is strong and stable and look to the future how we can take on these establishments. >> hillary clinton is doing much bitter than jeb bur by a long shot. now we're seeing bernie sanders, your colleague from, your independent colleague from vermont closing in on her, getting up to 41 to frachlth it's within striking distance. what's changing in that? what itself the contour in that race right now he seems to be

competitive? >> well, i think what you have seen, secretary clinton, who i am supporting, she has made clear it's a constant coronation, this is going to be a serious race. she's taken it seriously. they've had major debates and senator sanders is making a case that i believe is very similar to the case that hillary clinton is making, that it is a stark difference between the policies of our democratic candidates who have, i think, have had very strong policy debates and what are you seeing on the other side, where they're basically blaming everyone they can besides suggest solutions. >> senator, we're on the clock. the clock has run out tonight. thank you so much. >> i guess you don't want to miss the president there. >> thank you so much. >> when we return, let me finish with a moment. this moment of national transition. it's a big one tonight. you are watching haroldball.

seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising.

. >> let me finish tonight with this moment of national transition. one president is headed towards the exit. another is in the process of being selected. well the president who was leaving office, barack obama leads tonight on the state of the union. he will, no doubt. try to arrest the terrorist towards pessimism that has been exploited and doubled down on people hoping to succeed him. you don't win the presidency by saying how great things are. you win by convincing people there is a big need out there and you are just the person to fill it. you can tell a lot about the public's judgment by paying

attention to those it is responding to with the most excitement. right now the second week of the year, there are two. donald trump and bernie sanderss. they are the political newbuys who are making all the noise out there. who isn't? let's start with the bush error. jeb is doing nothing. he is the dog food the dog doesn't like. that's after a heap of advertising. other nonperformers include most of the other office holders who put their name in the fight. rick perry of texas him scott walker of wisconsin. gone. who's doing well? three republican new comer, trump, ted cruz, marco rubio, not one completed a single term in national office. that's what the public seems to like about them. their innocent of responsibility. they remind me of the best line ronald reagan cale up with. i'll admit i'm irresponsible when they admit they're responsible. so tonight the president we have is stuck two a difficult field position. he must defend the way things are by a country serenaded by those who know the keys of the

kingdom go to those who convince the public next december there is sething deeply wrong with it. the president's big implies its goal is to give him enough of a positive sale to make it a democrat, most likely, hillary clinton to succeed him. otherwise, the nos will have it. that's hardball for now. thanks for being with us. stay tuninged to msnbc's live coverage of president obama's final state of the union address. . ♪ >> good evening, i'm chris brown alongside rachel maddow at