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mitchell reports" trump versus cruz. the front-runner's not very subtle dig at ted cruz's finances hours before their big showdown in charleston. >> i know nothing about it, but i hear it's a very big thing. i hope he solves it. i think he's a nice guy. i hope he gets it solved. i just hope that's not a big problem for him. >> those loans have been disclosed over and over and over again on multiple filings but all the information has been public and transparent for many years and that's the end of that. changing the subject. bernie sanders' knew ad on wall street reform after hillary clinton hammered him on health care. >> like me, no. will they begin to play by the rules of our president? you better believe it. an msnbc exclusive. a man on death row for ten years finally set free, now in a big interview he opens up to msnbc's craig melvin. >> there are friends of yours

that over that time period, you became friends and next thing you know -- >> they have been executed. that hurts. good day. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. with friends like these, who needs enemies? when donald trump isn't killing ted cruz with kindness, he's trying to sink the texas senator's chances in iowa by keeping stories critical of cruz alive and putting doubt into the minds of cruz's conservative supporters. joining me ahead of tonight's big republican debate, nbc's hallie jackson and katy tur both in north charleston, south carolina. hallie, first to you. let's talk about the problem that ted cruz has over this goldman sachs loan and how it conflicts with his own narrative of who he is and what he's trying to communicate to conservative iowa voters.

>> reporter: right. this idea that he's this populist tea party crusader, this warrior, who rails against the big banks yet is taking loans from goldman sachs, citibank, loans he did disclose on his personal financial disclosures but not filed with the s.e.c. something as you played ted cruz calls an inadvertent mistake, the campaign saying it is checking to see how to rectify this. the bottom line, this is something that yet again is knocking ted cruz off his message. do you think he wants to be talking about this? no. do you think he wants to be talking about the birther issue and other attacks from donald trump? no. he wants to be hitting his own message of constitutional conserco conservativism and instead he's trying to push back against this story that contradicts frankly or potentially could for voters his narrative. >> of course, when we talk about donald trump and how he goes after people, nobody knows this better than you, katy, how has trump played this and tried to

put cruz off his game given how closely tied they are in this polling in iowa? >> reporter: well, he doesn't stop talking about it. that's his plan all along, to distract, distract, distract, keep the focus off donald trump and on to ted cruz, making voters question everything about him, question whether he's i believable to run for president, question whether or not the canadian birth is a real problem, question this loan and what it means to his back story. if he keeps raising these issues, he keeps trying to sow the seed of doubt within voters' mind, paint him as somebody who is not necessarily a sure bet to win the general election if he faces hillary clinton or bernie sanders, that he is the one that will be a sure bet. he doesn't have these problems, doesn't have these issues. he will be the one that will be able to come out the victor. ted cruz, who knows. he might not be able to even be eligible for president. >> this is the way trump

responded to ted cruz's attacks that trump had quote, new york values. >> does that seem like criticism to you? do you embrace new york values? >> i embrace. look, in new york we took a big hit with the world trade center. worst thing ever. worst attack ever in the united states. worse than pearl harbor because they attacked civilians, they attacked people having breakfast and frankly, you know, if you would have been there and if you would have lived through that like i did with new york people, the way they handled that attack was one of the most incredible things that anybody has ever seen. when people want to knock new york, first of all, you shouldn't be doing it because you have a massive population there, but when you want to knock new york, you got to go through me. >> really interesting to see this matchup. to both of you, hallie first, what do you expect tonight when they are standing side by side on the debate stage? >> reporter: yeah. listen, i think that over the last week, we have been talking about the fact that this political bromance between the

two has been crumbling. that said, i do think if the opportunity presents itself you will see ted cruz go after donald trump and re-up this line of attack he has been testing out this week, this idea that donald trump has these new york values as you heard him respond there, this idea that donald trump is tied to hillary clinton supporters. that said, if trump stays back and doesn't come at cruz and if there's not an opportunity or moment that presents itself, i don't know that ted cruz will necessarily turn the barrels on donald trump unprompted. >> katy, what are the chances trump won't go after him? >> reporter: well, trump has always said he's a counter-puncher, he's not going to be the one that attacks first. so we are going to see if he decides to do something different tonight and go after him. of course, they are neck and neck in the polls in iowa and they do need to break away from each other, but there's an inherent risk involved that donald trump goes after ted cruz too hard, he might alienate some voters who are crossover voters between trump and ted cruz. >> thanks to both much yoof you.

we will be watching. joining me for our daily fix, "washington post" editorial columnist ruth marcus, "wall street journal" political editor jean cummings. how big a problem is it for ted cruz to be acknowledging a goldman sachs loan, goldman and others saying it wasn't at a favorable rate but it was not disclosed in a timely way when it was supposed to be to the federal election commission and so he had to do an amendment on that, and it does undercut his whole narrative, i mortgaged everything in order to run for the senate, i put everything on the line. >> on the line with the backing of goldman sachs. we both used to cover money and politics and reality is, this is a transgression. it's a technical transgression. it's not fatal but it's not the greatest time in the world for ted cruz to be talking about this and any time you are saying ted cruz and goldman sachs in the same sentence, it's not the kind of campaign that he wants to be running right now. >> how many iowa voters, caucus

goers, would have even known that his wife works for goldman? >> absolutely. that, he doesn't want the association with the big bank being highlighted this close to the caucus time, and also, i think the other piece of this where it undercuts his narrative in terms of, you know, he was so committed to his candidacy and the causes of the tea party and the grassroots that he attracts that he was willing to risk his family's financial ruin in order to get to the senate to fight for what they believe in, and that isn't exactly correct, that really hurts, too. >> in fact, it's not correct at all. that's not who he is. let's talk about the democrats. new des moines register poll, bloomberg poll, showing neck and neck in iowa and it's not so much that hillary clinton is or that bernie sanders is gaining. it's that hillary clinton is losing among the undecideds.

more people are not sure. so her support is softer than people might have imagined. >> her support is softer and it's not going in the direction that they want, and the response from the clinton campaign of course will be that they always expected the race to tighten but the fact is, this is at least to me right now, a little bit of a mystery which is what exactly is going on, what is making these voters who were once inclined in her direction have second thoughts. i don't have a view on that yet. >> she's been hammering him for days on the unspecific numbers, the lack of any kind of numbers in his health care, single payer health care plan. i want to get to the details of that in a moment but he's now counter-attacked trying to change the subject clearly with the toughest ad and arguably the first really negative ad of the campaign, something he said he wouldn't do. this on wall street reform today. >> there are two democratic visions for regulating wall street. one says it's okay to take millions from big banks, then

tell them what to do. my plan, break up the big banks, close the tax loopholes and make them pay their fair share. then we can expand health care to all and provide universal college education. will they like me? no. will they begin to play by the rules if i'm president? you better believe it. >> jeanne, that's a very effective ad for bernie sanders and it doesn't mention obviously her counterpoint which would be that her wall street plan, her wall street reform plan has gotten a lot of praise for going after the shadow banks that many say were really involved in the crash. that said, he's got credibility on this issue. >> he does. because he's been running on it forever. it's how he launched his campaign. he's very credible on the issue and what is also effective, i think, about that ad is that it's not an attack ad. he is promotting his plan. he is promoting his candidacy. by reference, does it speak that i'm better than her?

sure. but it's not an attack ad in the traditional sense. and he doesn't name her and i think that makes that ad a lot more effective. >> he doesn't need to name her because everybody knows who exactly he is talking about. >> briefly, this is so complicated, but on health care, on the numbers, the lack of numbers and what the clinton campaign is saying about his single payer proposal. >> sure. there's two issues here. the clinton campaign's argument is this is his biggest proposal by far. he needs to explain to us exactly how he's going to pay for it and specifically whether that's going to mean that middle income taxpayers see their rates rise. the sanders campaign has indicated that they're not going to be forthcoming with those details. i think that's a perfectly legitimate question for her to ask. at the same time, if you look at some of the evidence and studies on single payer, they do argue that for the most part, middle income taxpayers will not be hurt once you take away, sorry

to wonk out here, once you take away their need to pay for premiums, that will make up for some of the increase in taxes they might have. so a really interesting substantive debate but you can't have it without the numbers to back it up. >> bottom line, he says without knowing exactly what his plan would be, you can't be specific. other experts have said it could cost as much as $15 trillion to $18 trillion over ten years. >> it's relevant that the bernie sanders campaign in the summer said we are going to come out with the numbers and didn't. then they said they would have them before the iowa caucuses. now they say they won't. that's another reason that it's a soft target for hillary clinton because he's not delivering in a way that he had already promised he would. >> we have to leave it there. we have a lot more to talk about because we can now announce the official candidate lineup for the nbc news democratic primary debate this sunday in south carolina. on the stage, sunday night, hillary clinton, bernie sanders and martin o'malley have all qualified for the debate based on the latest polling with

o'malley barely making that cut. but he will be there. tune in to nbc news for special debate coverage 9:00 eastern on sunday. moderated by lester holt. i'm honored to be able to announce that i will be joining lester at the table in this final democratic debate before the iowa caucus. please join us then. up next, the senator sits out. we will talk to rand paul about why he is boycotting the republican debate tonight. everyone's lookin' red carpet ready. my man, lemme guess who you're wearing... toenail fungus!? whaaat?!? fight it! with jublia. jublia is a prescription medicine... ...used to treat toenail fungus. use jublia as instructed by your doctor. jublia is workin' it! most common side effects include... ...ingrown toenail, application site redness,... ...itching, swelling, burning... ...or stinging, blisters, and pain. oh!! fight it! with jublia! now that's a red carpet moment! ask your doctor if jublia is right for you. visit our website for savings on larger size. at ally bank, no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like working from home equals not working.

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the new bernie sanders ad that we just showed is his toughest campaign ad yet, taking aim at hillary clinton as a new des moines register/bloomberg poll shows him closing in on clinton in iowa. i'm joined by the secretary of agriculture, tom vilsack, the former governor of iowa and a

strong clinton supporter. mr. secretary, welcome. >> good to be with you. >> let's talk about iowa, because why is bernie doing so well, why are people not flocking to him, but as we see in these poll numbers, that people are becoming less certain about their support for hillary clinton? >> the reality is we always anticipated this is going to be a close race and it's been a great campaign, substantive campaign, certainly contrasts nicely with what's going on on the other side. hillary is doing all the right things and at the end of the day, i think the key here is organization. there's no question who has the stronger organization to deliver the people the caucus. the poll is instructive because it indicates that bernie is basically topped out. he hasn't moved at all since march. so it's not about bernie's support. i think it's about making sure that we continue to reach out to hillary's supporters, reassure them that her plans are the best and in fact, that she's tough enough to win. what's not or what's missing in this campaign is the fact in order to govern, in order to do anything, you have to win.

you have to be tough enough to win. she has been vetted. bernie has not been. >> in our own poll this week, he had better numbers against any of the republicans than she did. he is more electable in a general election, according to what people think now. >> andrea, there has not been a negative ad directed at bernie sanders yet. hillary clinton has withstood pressure over the course of her incredible career. i can guarantee you that there will be plenty of negative advertising that will redefine bernie sanders. at this point in time, i'm proud of the election and the race these folks are running because it's substantive. hillary has better plans, i think she's indicated where the money's going to come from to pay for her plans. that is something bernie sanders has not done. i think it's a fatal mistake on his part not laying out precisely how he's going to pay for college, how he's going to pay for a hlt caealth care for . and until he does that people in iowa will be skeptical of those plans. >> why should people in iowa, corn growers, as the agriculture

secretary, get this special ethanol mandate now that oil prices are below $30 a barrel? >> it's much different. there are a multitude of reasons. cleaner air is the result -- >> producing ethanol is very environmentally costly according to members of the house and senate who tried to take it away. >> we have recently done studies about this. i think basically the folks are working on old information. it's much more efficient than oil production. number two, it supports nearly 400,000 jobs. number three, it stabilizes prices and four, it reduces our reliance on foreign oil. it's basically an opportunity for us to reduce our trade deficit. number five, it reduces the cost of gasoline at the pump anywhere from 25 cents to $1 a gallon depending how high gas prices are. there are multiple benefits to the country from this industry and basically, what this does, it essentially establishes a threshold for the industry to meet. we are now not only meeting that

threshold but also beginning to export this fuel to china and to places all over the world so it's going to continue to grow and continue to support jobs here at home. and it's going to continue to reduce our reliance on foreign oil. i would rather have our farmers get the benefit and our workers get the benefit rather than folks in the middle east. >> i want to ask you about your poverty initiatives because as agriculture secretary, you have been, as long as i have known you, really concerned about rural poverty and how the high percentage of poverty that resides in rural areas. >> one out of four american children live in a home that's at or below the poverty level. so this president has been moved by that statistic and has instructed me as the chair of the rural council to address it. we are looking at creative solutions, integrative solutions and comprehensive solutions trying to make sure we bring information and services to families, not just to children and not just to mom and dad but to the entire family, better worker training for mom and dad, better child care availability,

better services for youngsters. that's why it's important to have universal free pre-k, why it's important to have the affordable care act so kids are covered there. are a lot of benefits that have accrued. we are going to begin to see that break come down. we are seeing the unemployment rate come down in rural america as a result of the record amount of job growth we have seen in the last 70 months. so we are going to continue to work on it. that's another reason why you need industries like the renewable fuel industry and expand that not just to fuel and energy but to chemicals so that you bring manufacturing back to rural communities. that's what's happening in america today. it's going to continue to expand dramatically as a result of the president's activities. >> secretary vilsack, thank you so much. >> thank you. now speaking of iowa, kentucky senator and republican presidential candidate rand paul joins me now with iowa, of course, the first voting. thank you for being with us. you're not going to be on the stage tonight in the republican debate. you have opted out of the undercard. tell me why. >> i think it's a mistake with only about three weeks to go in the election to let anyone

designate your campaign as not being a contender. we just made the decision that the media shouldn't get to decide this and the parties shouldn't get to decide this. besides, the most recent polls out of iowa have me definitely in contention and above and ahead of a couple people they did include on the debate stage. we think the decision-making was arbitrary and capricious and we just weren't willing to take it, frankly. >> one of the things you have done in trying to pressure the republican party and fox business, the other debate sponsors, to put you on the main stage is you were on the air with alex jones, the conservative talk show host. let me play a little bit of that. >> i wanted my audience to get you in that debate. >> the best thing would be to call the republican national committee and tell reince priebus that they need to allow all voices to be heard in the debate and that it's not fair to exclude me from the debate.

>> do you have any problem with going on, i guess you didn't, with alex jones, a conspiracy theorist who said that sandy hook didn't happen, 9/11 didn't happen? why would you go on the air with someone of his -- with his background? >> i think i have been pretty ecumenical. i go on air with people from the far right and the far left. this morning i'm on msnbc which is not a conservative network or not thought to be a conservative network so i don't think anybody accuses me of being afraid of going on with the right or the left. the job of a candidate is try to get your message out. get it out to anyone who is listening and try to change the direction of the country. >> what do you think of this matchup between ted cruz and donald trump? ted cruz now, the "new york times" disclosing that he had a loan from goldman sachs, not a favorable rate, they all claim, but it wasn't disclosed properly to the f ergsec. he did that subsequently, apparently. does it matter? >> i think what will end up

being more important and voters will probably judge to be more important is that ted cruz didn't show up and didn't think enough of auditing the federal reserve to actually show up and support me in that battle this week in the senate. i think that's affecting him more probably than the loan will be. but we'll see. voters still haven't decided yet. >> and what about nikki haley and her response to the state of the union? there's a lot of criticism from the conservative side of the party, she was praised by establishment republicans but slammed by others, including donald trump, for what she said obviously shots that she took against trump and other voices in the party, as well as in the media. >> i think donald trump would be a disaster for the republican party. i have spent the last two years trying to say we need to be a bigger party, more inclusive, more diverse, rich, poor, white, black. i have been really trying to expand the notion of our party and i think donald trump is trying to narrow that and there is a certain anger that appears to be directed toward different ethnic groups that i think is a

mistake. our party i think actually needs to do much more than we have done to be a bigger party. i think donald trump would take us back a generation or two and i think would absolutely destroy the party. so i'm doing everything i can to make sure that he's not the nominee. >> what if he is? >> well, we can only hope. i think that he isn't but i think we make a mistake because we have so much time now to talk about politics, that we really think that we are going to predecide things. nothing is really known until people go to vote february 1st, even the polling in all likelihood probably has no validity in what will happen on february 1st. >> i agree with you there. i think until people have voted and we have seen how volatile it is. getting back to trump, what if he is collecting delegates and what if it turns out that way, what if the polling's correct and he's the nominee. what do you do? >> i faced this same dilemma when i ran for the u.s. senate. i was the underdog. the establishment had their

candidate. but everybody, my opponents as well as myself promised to support the nominee. that's how party politics works, so your party can beat the other party. while i want to be the nominee, i pledge that i will support who will be the nominee. that's the only way the party can draw together because you need everybody in the end to beat the other party. so i think it's a hypothetical obviously that's uncomfortable because we are vying in a very heated battle right now to see who will be the nominee and i don't want donald trump to be the nominee. but i think it's an unfair question in the sense that we aren't there yet. let's ask it once we get there. i think you will find probably the same answer that most people will support the nominee. >> and is there any chance that you can be on that debate stage? i don't know what your conversations are. what are you doing today to try to fix this or what is your counter-programming? >> we have pointed out to the republican party and to the network that if you look at the polls that have come out, that we should be included. the most recent poll by the des moines register thought to be

one of the most accurate polls out there has me by myself in fifth place, and this would averaged in with the others that they were looking at, would actually have me in the debate. so we think to quibble about tenths of points really is unscientific. the polls have a margin of error often of two or three points, sometimes four points, and so really, it's unscientific and biased and really does a lot towards instead of growing the republican party, it looks like they want to shrink the republican party if they want to push the liberty vote, the libertarian leaning voters out of the party. these voters can go other places. they sometimes vote for third party candidates and so i don't know. we think it's a mistake that they made. we hope they will try to correct it. >> what are you going to be doing tonight if you are not on that stage? >> well, we are going to be reaching out to our two million people on facebook and others, we are going to be having a tele-town hall at randpaul.com. if anybody wants to ask me directly a question, go to our facebook and become part of the tele-town hall tonight.

>> rand paul, senator, thank you very much for being with us. >> thank you. coming up, terror at a starbucks in jakarta. was it isis? we get the latest just ahead. >> -- with my colleagues, a second bomb went off, another suicide bomb. run this business. but i really love it. i'm on the move all day long... and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost® to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste. i don't plan on slowing down any time soon. stay strong. stay active with boost®. aren't moving in the right direction,bers it can be a burden. but what if you could wake up to lower blood sugar? imagine loving your numbers. discover once-daily invokana®. with over 6 million prescriptions and counting,

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starts with arthritisg pain and a choice. this is sheldon, take tylenol or take aleve,.. the #1 recommended pain reliever by orthopedic doctors. just two aleve can keep pain away all day. back to the news. isis has now officially claimed responsibility for a deadly attack on indonesia's capital of jakarta earlier today. multiple attackers assaulting the city center with grenades and guns, leaving seven people dead, two civilians and five of the attackers themselves. for the details, i'm joined by msnbc foreign correspondent ayman mohyeldin in new york. this is the first time we have seen a claim of isis for something happening this far in asia. >> yeah, absolutely. certainly in indonesia. this is considered by many experts who have been following this and certainly seeing where isis attacks have been in the past, the first official claim of responsibility for an attack

inside indonesia, indonesia being the world's largest muslim population. long past of militant groups operating there, including al qaeda which carried out a very deadly attack back in 2002. we will get to that. but today's attack was brazen. it took place in the heart of jakarta, involved several individuals, according to police, by some estimates as many as five individuals, including suicide bombs, small arms fire as well as grenades. it seemed that the plan, the intent of the plan was try to wreak havoc in the heart of jakarta right in the area busy with workers, busy with westerners as well. it wasn't too far away from the presidential palace, the u.s. embassy's in the vicinity as well as the u.n. offices in indonesia. we know the target outside of a starbucks popular among local residents there. so some are saying it's very similar to the attack we saw in paris where the intent was to start in one area and then spread that terror, spread that fear, in various parts. indonesian police and security were able to get there quickly and that led to a standoff and led to a shootout in which at

least two people were killed. two innocent civilians were killed in addition to the several attackers that were involved in this. >> ayman mohyeldin, thank you so much. coming up next, battleground south carolina. governor haley ignited a new battle in the republican civil war ahead of tonight's debate. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports." eteria noise) ♪ ♪ (flourish spray noise) ♪ ♪ (flourish spray noises) ♪ (school bell) ♪ ♪ (sigh) ♪ (flourish spray noise) ♪ share the joy of real cream... share the joy of real cream... (flourish spray noise) ...with reddi-wip. ♪ you have to feel healthy... on the outside ...at your core. trubiotics a probiotic from one a day

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these are the top two candidates. where do you come down on the way they have been battling back and forth? >> this is the nature of the end of the scrimmage. as you get closer and closer to votes being cast, elbows begin to fly more and more. i think you will probably see some of that tonight and you will see it certainly in the days leading up to iowa, new hampshire and south carolina. >> is it good or bad for the party? >> it is what it is. you can go back to the days of people caning each other in the senate chambers. there has always been a rough and tumble component to american politics. and it's the powerful contrast you said thshis, you said this. at times the process gets a bit messy. the old saying is if you like sausage, don't watch it being made. that back and forth hopefully allows voters at the end of the day to glean the truth. is there merit or not to trump's charges with regard to cruz on citizenship.

i don't think so but ultimately that's for the voters to decide. >> what about nikki haley, the governor of south carolina, of course gave the republican response and was sharply critical, certainly critical of president obama with ybut sharp critical of her own party and is taking heat for that, for the loud voices. let me play a little for you. >> during anxious times, it can be tempting to follow the siren call of the angriest voices. we must resist that temptation. no one who is willing to work hard, abide by our laws and love our traditions should ever feel unwelcome in this country. >> now, the next morning she told matt lauer that she was referring to donald trump as well as some other voices, including voices in the media, when she spoke about the noise and loud voices. do you agree with her? >> i do. i think that there's merit to what she's saying. what she's saying goes up against two forces that i think

are really at an inflection point in our country. one is people fear some components of globalization. they fear the way they compete against seven billion people around planet earth and it's easy in political terms to find somebody else to blame and oftentimes, that's blamed on the new guy in town or the new gal in town. so you have that force going on. and the other is a force that plays as you well know, andrea, in the media which is if it bleeds, it leads. too often, media goes for the negative story, not the uplifting story. degrading comment will be covered much more than an uplifting compliment. so you have those two things combined together and you get on the tail end of a campaign with election right around the corner, again, people throw out some things so we shouldn't go that way. i hope we don't. i think the governor was right in what she suggested. but that's probably not the nature of the way the end of

campaigns come down. >> to your point, ann coulter and others, ann coulter tweeting out within minutes that governor haley should be deported. is that constructive, that kind of invective? >> i was just going to say, me, as guilty of this as anybody in the world of politics or anybody in civilian life. no, i don't think that's constructive. she was born in orangeburg, south carolina. she has much of a claim to united states citizenship as ann coulter does. >> thank you very much, congressman from south carolina. we will all be down there by tomorrow and seeing you, we hope, in the next couple of days. coming up next, from death row to free man. at least temporarily. an msnbc exclusive report on a texas man who has always insisted he was innocent. and new evidence that set him free.

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welcome back. now to a harrowing story of a man recently freed from death row. alfred dewayne brown was released from a texas prison last summer. he spent a decade on death row for a crime he says de not commit. msnbc's craig melvin has been following the story. you spent a lot of time with him including last night. >> he was here watching a basketball game. here's the thing. he insisted he was not even at the scene of the crime. he was convicted in 2005 in a high profile case in the killing of a houston police officer. the officer's name was charles clark. along with a cashier as well. there was no forensic evidence, there was no surveillance footage, either he said he was at his girlfriend's apartment and actually called to check on her when he saw the coverage of the killings on television. proof of that call would have been an alibi. problem was, no one could find a record of the call back then. he was convicted, he was

sentenced to death row, and he spent his days right there in that tiny cell, 23 hours every day. then in 2007, he got a new attorney. he declares that he knew in his gut after meeting him for the first time that he was innocent. in 2014, they discovered the missing phone record. it was buried in a box of papers in a police detective's garage there in houston. there has still been no plausible explanation about precisely how it got there. this is what the texas court of criminal appeals said as it set him free last summer. quote, based on the habeus corpus court's findings and conclusions and their own review, we hold the state withheld evidence that was both favorable and material to applicant's case in violation of brady. that of course is a reference to a supreme court case brady v maryland that deals with exculpatory evidence and due process. brown walked out of prison june 8th last year.

>> and is he free and clear or is there any chance the state would try to even retry him? >> the d.a. at the time last summer said they did not have sufficient evidence to bring new charges. however, again, as you know, there's no statute on capital punishment so theoretically, yeah, if there's some sort of new evidence that emerges, he could be tried for murder but this is not something that keeps his attorney up at night. they think that he is more than likely out forever. >> extraordinary. are there other reasons he should never have been on death row? >> his girlfriend at the time said in their initial interview with the investigators, she said that he was there, that she got the phone call. investigators come back, according to her, they pressure her to change her testimony, they charge her with perjury. she spends close to three months in prison or excuse me, in jail for perjury, and is only released when she changes her story. she later tells her attorney that she had to choose between

him or her kids and she chose her kids. so she recanted her testimony as well. >> how is he spending his time? because you said you were with him last night. this is pretty remarkable. >> he's got a bucket list. he wanted to see an nba game so he went to the wizards game and saw the wizards take on the bucks, beat the bucks. he crisscrosses the country with his lawyer talking to law students about his case, about the process as well. he wants to make this his mission. he works on a horse farm down in louisiana now. he finds it very therapeutic, very cathartic to be outside. i asked him last night what the hardest part about being in prison, being on death row, what the hardest part was. listen to what he said. >> the hard part about being on death row is when you be talking to a guy not knowing that he has an execution date and you get close to him, like just sharing different things, artwork,

whatever it is y'all be talking about and y'all get close, and then the guards come knock on his door and tell him pack up. >> pack up, because that would be his execution day. he had a lot of friends who ended up being executed in texas while he was on death row. >> wow. craig melvin, unbelievable story. thank you for bringing it to us. really appreciate it. great to see you. just ahead, power up. how operation hope is making sure that tech and innovation leaves no one behind. you think you're doing all you can

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that's what i mean when i say an innovation economy. we've got to be confident about our ability to solve any problem if we put our minds to it. >> that was president obama of course, this morning at mckinley high school in baton rouge, louisiana, echoing his optimistic state of the union message. today in atlanta, that same focus on leadership, innovation

and empowerment is center stage at the 2016 hope global forum. msnbc is a media partner at this event featuring conversations with leaders like treasury secretary jack lew and chelsea clinton over the next two days. joining me is the founder of operation hope, john hope bryant. thank you very much. it's a great honor to be with you and talk to you about -- >> andrea, thank you. >> what can be done with public and private partnerships and what are you trying to do to include innovation and technology through all sectors, especially the young people who don't have access? >> well, i think that when secretary castro said this morning he wants to have every low income housing complex and home wired with the internet, that was extraordinary. it's simple and you would assume it was done, but it is not. you are not connected to the internet, you can't innovate anything or even search for a job, frankly. to van jones who was here last night, he said the best way to stop a bullet is a job. so if you think about what's

going on in ferguson, missouri, that's a jobless economy. think about what's going on in baltimore, that was a jobless economy. think about what happened in south-central l.a. that started operation hope, the rodney king riots, jobless economy. 700 credit score communities don't riot. only 500 credit score communities do. we have to move credit scores 120 points. we are doing that through our locations, an innovation, a new software to give people uplift that can measure. it also brings more gdp in the economy and the guy who made the suit, we raised his credit score 100 points, taught him to be an entrepreneur and now he has six employees and is adding to his taxes, raising his children and adding to the american dream of small business creation. >> how do you do this town by town and city by city, get

businesses engaged? it seems like such an overwhelming challenge. is it one step at a time? >> it is one step at a time. i think it's also scaleable. we are going to open 1,000 hope inside locations. sun trust opened 20, committed to opening 20. first tennessee bank, largest bank of tennessee, committed to 15. we are the only nonprofit inside of a bank branch. hyatt hotels committed to two. whole foods, we are negotiating with them. two hospitals in detroit, we are working with the mayor to do 100 locations in detroit, part of their revitalization effort. coca cola just committed $1 million today to put hope inside for women and entrepreneurship for girls in public schools, very much like the school the president was at. so we need not just a ph.d. conversation but a ph-do

conversation. we have to think global but you have to act local. the president needs partners like operation hope who are on the ground and whoever the president is next, republican or democrat, this is an american issue because 70% of the people watching your program right now feel that like they have too much month at the end of their money. >> it's a completely bipartisan program. congratulations to you and to all the people involved. we will keep on it and follow up as you proceed. thanks so much to you. congratulations. >> thank you so much for being with us. appreciate it. be sure to check out the livestream on msnbc.com to watch the 2016 hope global forum today and tomorrow. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow the show online, on facebook and twitter. be sure to tune in tonight at 9:00 eastern for rachel maddow's interview with hillary clinton. "msnbc live" with thomas roberts is next. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain... shoots and burns its way into your day,

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hi, everybody. great to have you with me. i'm thomas roberts. tonight, the sixth republican presidential debate will be happening, just two and a half weeks before the iowa caucuses. the phrase follow the money is revealing a new controversy that could spell trouble for senator ted cruz, the iowa front-runner. gop rival donald trump calling the "new york times" report a quote, very big thing. an investigation found that cruz's 2012 campaign failed to report low interest loans totalling up to about $1 million from two big wall street banks, goldman sachs and citibank. wednesday night, senator cruz made remarks about the report, attempting to diminish any importance of it. >> we borrowed against the stocks and assets that we had under ordinary terms. if it was the case that they were not filed exactly as the fec requires, then we will amend the filings. our finances are not complicated. we put in the entirety of our