that is "all in" for this evening, rachel's exclusive interview with hillary clinton starts right now. \s thanks for being with us tonight. usually this is the time in the show where i'm about to start talking for an uninterrupted 17 minutes that involves a lot of really arcane historical illusions. tonight something different, because you've been very good. tonight we're joined by a special guest, who is hard to get. she was here in the building to do "the tonight show" with jimmy fallon. we asked if she could swing by, it turns out she could. joining us is secretary clinton. >> excellent, i thought i would come during historical illusion time. >> we've heard enough about 1952, maddow, let's go further back. very good. well, let me ask you, start with something very much in the headlines, interesting in the headlines during president obama's state of the union, the

situation with the sailors taken. obviously released yesterday, in part because we have more open lines of commune ways with iran, which is a good thing. what's your reaction, though, to iran videotaping these americans as prisoners, broadcasting their surreverend on boats, what happened to be an out-of-context apology. was that upsetting? should there be consequences? >> they made it clear it looked like there was a mistake, you know, we were inadvertently in their territorial waters. okay. fine. let's recognize it and let's move on. don't try to turn it into some political propaganda coup, because it isn't and should be be. it raises the kind of challenges we're going to have going forward with iran, because after all, i support it, i helped start the process that led to the agreement on the nuclear weapons. we have to enforce that

agreement vigorously if there are any slips or misses on the parts of the iranians, there have to be consequences, but we have this whole other arena of problems we have to deal with when it comes to iran. >> nonnuclear -- >> nonnuclear issues. in fact one of the best arguments for the nuclear agreement was let's put a lid on their nuclear program, it would give us time and breathing space to deal with a lot of the aggressiveness, the undermining of governments, continuing outrageous support of assad as he murders his people day after day. so it wasn't clear to me, but if i were guessing, you're right, good that we have an open channel. because when i was there we had very little opportunity to communicate. it was complicated. we would often have to go through other countries to get a message -- >> as intermediaries. >> right that's the good side. the not so good side, if you're

going to be a mature country and shoulder responsibilities, which you leaders claim you are ready to do, act like it. >> so in terms of pressing iran for consequences on that, what would you do? >> i think on this one, i would put them on notice that, just as we've said and i have given a lot of remarks about this, we're going to enforce the nuclear agreement very vigilantly, we're also going to be looking -- i they want to play a game where they turn something that was accidental into an international case, they're going to have to take the consequences if we do the same. >> i want to ask you about the presidential race right now. new iowa polling out in -- today from "the des moines register" you always said you would expected it to tighten at this point in the race, but they had a write-up when they put out the poll explaining what's going on. at least the way they read it, they say that senator sanders is basically doing better than you with the same groups that

powered president obama's victory in iowa in 2008, namely young people, first-time caucus-goers and independents. if iowa this year against bernie sanders looks a bit like iowa in 2008 against barack obama, don't you need to change what you're doing to try to crack the code with those kinds of voters? >> i don't think so. here's why. i have a much better organization than i did back in '08. i have an organization that is a great mixture of people who worked for president obama in '08 and 2012, people worked for me, people new to the process. i've got a lot of confidence in them, what they're doing, and we have a very significant core of committed supporters. that's what the caucus eventually ends up counting. it's cold in iowa right now. we're all a bit chilled, and actually be there for whatever amount of time it takes. i feel very good.

that doesn't mean i'm not going to work like crazy to reach as many as i possibly can. that's what i doing and will be doing, and of course i want to reach groups of people that, you know, are still making up their minds or may think they have made up their minds but still persuadable. between now and when the doors open on february 1st at 6:30, we're going to do everybody we can. >> the character of the campaign, the tone of the campaign, the way you're trying to persuade those undecided voters seems to have changed a bit in the last week or so. just this afternoon your campaign in my estimation set its hair on fire when you called the attack ad against you. the campaign said it was the first candidate to go negative in this campaign. i have seen the ad that you're referring to. honestly, it is not much of an attack. it never says your name.

it says there's two democrat tick visions for regulates wall street, and i'm going to quote it directly -- it's okay to take millions from big banks and -- >> that's an oblique cry sim, but it's not something new, not over the top that he's this personal attacker in the campaign. >> well, let's put it into the broader context. obviously senator sanders has said repeatedly he doesn't do that, he doesn't engage in negative attacks, and i take him at his word. on anything personal. we don't do that in our side of the debate. we engage on substantive differences. we have some. he's been pointing out what he believes to be differences for quite some time from his point of view. so i have been pointing out what differences are, because i think the voters expect us to have a spirited debate and let them know where we stand on health care, guns, the economy and the

rers of the really important question that is voters are asking about this election. what i think people reacted to is that it was a very brought assertion that caught up all democrats. basically it'sing a very direct criticism of president obama, who you may recall took a lot of funding from the financial industry. that didn't stop him for fighting for the hardest regulations on wall street since the great depression, signing dodd/frank, getting everything he could get out of the congress at the time. so there is a difference. i think that, you know, the president and many democrats who support dodd/frank, we are fighting to prevent it from being turned back and eviscerated by the republicans, are saying, wait a minute, this is hard work. and what the president got done and what the democrats who toot with him got done is a pretty

important accomplishment if we're going to rein in the excesses on wall street. so it's a funny kind of charge. it's sort of a pox on all your houses for all the democrats, and i think that's what raised some eyebrows. >> the way you have rebutted that, particular your campaign has rebutted that, is about senator sanders and the way he's campaigning. you're saying he's the first candidate to go negative, calling that an attack ad. recently your campaign has said, quote, he can't level with the american people. he's not done what he has promised, shifting answers. senator sanders, obviously, is your opponent. nobody expects you to walk hand in hand and come to consensus, but he also doesn't have an enemy in the world in the democratic party or in his home state. people sigh in vermont, i'm considering voting for donald trump or bernie sanders. it's because his appeal is so

strong that he's even appealing to the trump voters up there. he's a very well-respected figure. your campaign is essentially fighting in millennium with a way that's kasten aspersions, calling him dishonest, won't level with the american people? >> let's parse this out. first of all i'm very proud to have the support of the present governor of vermont, two former governors of vermont, including howard dean. i'm very honored to have the support of the other senator patrick leahy, so people who are from that same state have concluded that they want to see me become the democratic nominee and in fact are working hard to make that happen. i have no -- i have nothing but good things to say about senator sanders personalitily, and i admire his incredible advocacy for the positions he holds. but the specific question that was raised here has to do with health care and taxes, because

i've been laying out my plans, rachel. i've been telling you where i'm going to get the money, how much it will cost, what i will do, and for months his campaign has been saying before the iowa caucus, we will tell you what we are proposing in taxes and the bulk of what he is advocating for is a single-payer health care system which would probably cost about $15 trillion. so the voters have been led to believe that before they go make their decision, they'll be able to compare what i want to do to get to universal care, which is to defend, support and enhance the affordable care act, and what senator sanders has said he wants to do, which is to basically start all over again, start a contentious debate, try to get to a single-payer system, but he's not telling us what it will look like and cost. >> do you disagree with that goal?

do you think it would be too hard to do? >> i agree with universal health care. >> no matter how you get there? >> no matter how you get there, but to me affordable carable is one of the signature accomplishments not of this president, but of the democratic party. we've been trying to get this through since president truman. i was thrilled when the president signed the affordable care act. i expect the republicans to do what they're trying to do, repeal it, they did it last week. thankfully the president dao veto it, but i'm surprised to be having this debate and it's really a very general debate when it comes to senator sanders about, no, we need to have a single-payer system. the only clue i can philadelphia, but he hasn't laid out a plan is to go back and look at the bills he introduced nine different times and it's a by concerning.

it would basically end all the kind of health care we have. for, exchange policies, employer-based policies, take all that and hand it over to the states. >> he call it medicare for all. he basically would say we replace -- >> but medicare for all is not the same if you're turning it over to the states. now, if he has changed his mind after introducing the bill nine times, he owes it to the public to tell them. if he has changed hi mind about having the federal government pay 86% of the cost and having states have to come up with the remaining 14% when in fact we know republican governors won't even pay for medicaid, which they are going to get initially for fog nothing, that's what we need.

i've got to compare this and contrast it, what's your position on guns, what's your position on health care? it's a bit concern that the devil's in the details when it comes to health care. i am both passion adand somewhat informed about how this is. if you're going to say free health care, medicare for all, you owe it to voters to say this will what it will cost and you will have to contribute x from your payroll tax. x from the income tax and you're going to have to figure out how you work with the governor of this state. that's not medicare for all. medicare for all is a very different model. so i'm just saying that we're only engaging in substantive differences. i think that's what you're supposed to do when you're in a contest as important as this one. what's your policy, what's my policy? how do you defend it? how do you explain it? and then we let the voters make

up their minds. let me ask you about a different kind of health issue. you've put out statements on the lead poisoning situation in flint, michigan. i know you sent some staff members to meet with the mayor of flint. if you were president now, would you do something in terms of the response that isn't already being done? >> well, i'm very pleased that fema is trying to do what it can there. in speaking with the congr congression congressional, andor they're trying figure out where the funding is for testing on the children. i tried to get rid of lead in housing in upstate new york. we know it has an affect on behavior and educational

attainment. we need to test kids, provide quickly whatever health care they can get whatever antidote is possible, and we need a fund for education. if these kids have been too exposed, the damage may be irreversible. we'll have to do more. >> and you think there's a federal role. >> i think there is a federal role. i would make it a federal role. right now, as best i can understand, the republican governor, governor snyder, is refusing to ask for the triggering of the federal help that he needs in order to take care of the people who are his constituents. i am just outraged by this. i find it, you know -- lead is one of the most pernicious, horrible, toxins that kids are exposed to, and that has such serious long lasting effects on their behavior and their learns.

i would be doing everything i could, and i would be expecting everybody in a position of authority to do the same. let's find out how much it would cost to fix the infrastructure problem. i think finally the governor called on the the national guard, deliver water, do what you can to at least avoid further harm, but we need to do a full-fledged health study to determine of the 99,000 people who live in flint, who has been exposed, how much? we need to make sure that no mother is mixing any food with water for babies, and so the information -- literally people need to be going door to door. a lot of folks who are busy, maybe not even paying attention now, the churches, civic oarization, not just the political authorities need to be fully engaged. i would pull out every stop. i think i would look for any provides in the law that would

permit me to override the lack of request from the governor if he refusing to still ask for what i think hi people deserve to have. >> secretary clinton, i have one last question for you. i realize we are out of time. permission for one more question? >> absolutely. we'll be right back with former secretary of state hillary clinton, really. stay with us. to prove to you that the better choice for him is aleve. he's agreed to give it up. ok, but i have 30 acres to cover by sundown. we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. yeah, i was ok, but after lunch my knee started hurting again so... more pills. yep... another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? for my pain... i want my aleve. get all day minor arthritis pain relief with an easy open cap. hey pal? you ready? can you pick me up at 6:30? ah... (boy) i'm here! i'm here!

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joining us again is secretary hillary clinton. thank for you staying. >> i'm so happy to. >> my last question is weird. >> let's have it. >> but it's about democratic women. i look at governors lie gina romundo, new hampshire, that kind of bench for democratic women in any other year, they would definitely be short-listed for vice president, but the common wisdom says this year there's no way if any get picked, not if you're the nominee. is that common wisdom correct, if you're the nominee real politically speaking, it is out of question for you to choose a running mate? >> absolutely not. >> really? >> absolutely not. look, i am going to do everything i can to be the nominee, so i have the great

opportunity to make that decision. we're living in a very unusual political atmosphere, and we need people who are tough enough tenacious enough with a track record to take on the forces that are raid against continuing progress, to protect president obama's legacy, and the progress and accomplishments that he has labored to achieve here at home and around the world. so i'm looking for a team, and the most important member of that team would be whoever i ask to be my running mate. i'm not ruling anybody out. >> you don't have to choose from grizzly adams mountainman in order to comfort the people who would be freaked out at the prospect of a female president. >> grizzly mountain man is not out? >> i think it's important to

look at the talents, the energy, the commitment the stamina. you're knocked down a lot in this kind of profession, and the people who dust themselves off and getting right back up are the people i feel the closest to, so men, women, i'm going to looking at anybody who can fit that role for me. >> former secretary of state, democratic presidential candidate, thank you so much. always good to see you. >> great to see you. thanks. lots more ahead tonight and we are literally on the phone trying to book the bear for later in the show, or at least leonardo dicaprio. stay with us. alright, kelly and promise me that you'll try that taco place on south street. and we have portfolio planning tools to help you manage your ira. yeah, you're old 401k give me your phone. the rollover consultants give you step-by-step help. no set-up fees. use your potion. sorry, not you.

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voila. remotes, come out from the cushions, you are back. the x1 voice remote is here. one says it's okay to take millions for big banks and tell them what to do. my plan is to break up the big bank, close the tax loopholes and make them pay their fair share. then we can expand health care to all and provide university college education. will they like me? no, will they begin to play by the rules if i'm president? you better believe it. i'm bernie saner, and i approve this message inch that's the recent campaign. it will soon by running in iowa and new hampshire. sanders' campaign is -- in the

homestretch, but this add in particular appears to have set off a minor firestorm. that particular ad was released, the clinton campaign set out a press release, as an attack add againster claiming with the ad, the first to go negative, they're saying he's broken his pledge to not run negative ads. given the actual content of the ad which you just saw, i feel like that reaction is a little over the top from the clinton campaign. i told secretary clinton that tonight, she disagreed with that characterization. it's not like something new, not over the top that he's the personal attacker in the campaign. obviously senator sanders has said repeatedly he doesn't do that, doesn't engage in negative

attacks. we don't do that in our side of is the debate, you know. we engage on substantive differences. we have something. he has been pointing out what he believes to be differences for confide some time now, so i have been pointing out what differences are, so i think the voters expect us to have a spirited debate. i think what people reacted to is that it was a very brought sear that caught up all deposition. it's basically a direct criticism of obama, who you might recall took a lot of money from the industry when he ran in 2008. that didn't stop him from fighting for the hardest regulations on wall street since the great depression. what the president got done and what the democrats who stood with him got down is a pretty important accomplishment if we're going to rein in the excesses on wall street. so it's a funny kind of charge.

it's sort of a pox on all your houses for all the democrats, and i think that that's what raised some eyebrows. casting a pox on all democrats' houses. that's criticism from secretary clinton you saw here tonight. it might be criticism that senator sanders wouldn't disagree with. he might wear that as a badge of pride. joining us is the great chris hays. the smartest guy i know of to explain politics particularly on the left. >> hello. >> i'm trying to figure out whether that was new territory. >> so that was -- i agree with you that the kind of hair on fire response from the clinton campaign about this ad was a bit much, particularly the last few days they've been saying he'll take away injure health care. >> they want to justify how negative they're going on him -- >> here's what was smart about

that politically and i think substantively correct, when it's an attack on barack obama. fundamentally it is true that the sanders world view is a world view that the current democratic party, arguably the most successful -- has been part of the same contribute system. it has been operating within the general corrupt system, and he wants to somehow break that up. he would say yes, dodd/frank was fine, and i support it, but we could have done much more, and i would do much more, because i'm not capture by the same special interests in the same way that a good guy like barack obama is. >> the different line he has to walk is to say that like fundamentally the system needs to be shaken up more than it has been without appearing to criticize bottom barack obama which is extremely beloved. so hillary clinton's -- the most

politically -- the political advantage she has over bernie sanders is the degree to which she can hug barack obama close to her, because she served in his administration, and i think fundamentally is more embedded in the system that barack obama has been operating under. >> there's some base structural things with that. he doesn't have in super-pacs. >> he is not taking money from big banks. that was an interesting point. and we got dodd/frank. >> and still did good work. >> the argument on the other side and dodd/frank might have been tougher if he hadn't. >> what do you think will happen in the democratic primary now that clearly the floodgates are open. it was interesting. the sharp tone from the clinton campaign and from secretary clinton herself towards bernie sanders is not very old. it's only been a few days. >> a week at the most.

>> so because there started literally just today this coverage of how maybe it's not a smart move, maybe it's backfiring, driving bernie sanders ease fund-raising. i wanted her to say no, that's not what i intended. she went way further down that room. >> they are -- so far they're mostly in the area of substance. >> in great detail. it's a thing that part of it that strikes me is implausible. he's going to scrap all these programs, and it is true. go read the bill. yes it does say replace these things. it also says in the clause that health care is an entitlement, so literally in writing it grands to people that the health care cannot be taken away. >> if you try to do something so radical, you put the good things at risk. >> exactly. that's this question about really a fundamental question

about the level of appetite that they have for sort of like new political fights versus consolidation of the gains -- >> yes, that's exactly right. that's it. >> risk/aversion. do you want to relitigate health care? might that backfire, and you lose the aca, i think it gets to voters' temperament, or do you want to -- >> yes. >> i think the sander camp, the jet thing out of the clint i i think the sanders camp does have to -- >> and they have declared their explanation. >> everyone understand -- a sanders medication will not be a med conveyor for all act, right? what are the incremental things you can do that moves the system closer to single-payer that wouldn't be another huge legislative battle. >> and that is a substantive fight. >> totally. >> i think it makes -- >> but it's not bernie sanders is going to take away injure health care.

>> he's putting existing good things in our health system at risk because he wants to do such a radical? i think it makes people uncan be at turning negative. i think the sanders camp is less comfortable, so whatever the substantive fight is, i sort of hope it doesn't get loss in people feeling so oogie about the tone. this interview tonight confirmed that for me. >> it's politics, they're trying to be the president of the united states. >> yeah. this is hard. >> it's amazing that it's in some ways it hasn't gotten here sooner. that's because it is really a tight race right now. >> chris hays, host of "all in with chris hayes" here. it's true, the smartest guy. see you soon. and while all the attention understandably is focused on the increasingly hot contest between clinton and sanders, spare a

thought no martin o'malley, who has been suffering headlines like these, speculating he may not qualify. the cruddy thing about those headlines, at the time those ran, he was actually watt mathematically on track to make the next democratic debate and now he officially has. so all of that insult for none of the injury, unless those wrong headlines themselves injure hi campaign, but martin o'mall o'malley will in fact be there. we also know how that debait will go, this sunday need, hosted from cars stone, south carolina. the moderator will be lester holt. he's going to get help with the questions, though -- the candidates will also take questions from chuck todd, and from the great andrea mitchell. so now you know what you'll be doing on sunday night. the pregame is at 8:00 eastern here on msnbc, the debates kicks off at 9:00 p.m. sunday night on

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right now as best i can understand, the governor, the republican governor, governor snyder, is refusing to ask for the triggering of the federal help that he needs in order to take care of the people who are his constituents. and i am just outraged by this. i would pull out every stop. i think i would look for any provision in the law that would permit me to override the lack of request from the governor if he refuses to still ask for what i think hi people deserve to have. >> former secretary of state hillary clinton here just tonight talking about the lead poisoning disaster in flint, michigan that was literally caused by the state government there. she called it infuriating, outraged. if she were president now she would look for ways to get federal help into flint, so that was tonight right here. today, the expressions of

outrage were out loud and they started on the capitol steps in lansing. [ chanting ] >> you cannot take your signs inside the building. [ chanting ] then they made their way inside. they streamed in chanting, again without their signs, because they weren't allowed to bring those in.

they maid their ways up two flights the stairs, the same chant the entire way. for context here, the people were making their way through the capitol to governor snyder's office. yes, it's largely a ceremonial office, but still. [ chanting ] >> there were so many people at this protest today. they filled the rotunda inside the state capitol all the way around, and some people made their way up yet another flight of stairs where the michigan house was in session. all this happened today. flint's residents, michigan's residents making a deliberately loud civil nuisance of themselves, calling on their governor to resign over the state government poisoning the water in flint. that's what the residents of flint traveled by bus to their

state capitol to do today. another announcement, twice we've had, a truly heroic -- the local pediatrician who basically realized what was going on and took it upon herself with no funding, no directive, that she should start testing the kids in flint. it turns out they did, in huge proportions. dr. mona hanna-attisha blew the whistle. she was right. her data was right, even now the governor has had to acknowledge shah she was right, and now now she's such a bad ass -- forgive me -- she's still blowing the whistle on what the administration is doing right now.

that's why she was here last night, still this week at that governor's press conference, they were still understating the problem, understating the number of people who have been lead poisoned by oh, say, tens of thousands of people. such a bad ass, doing such uncompromising brave, good work. somebody like that you think, god, why isn't that person in charge? well, that's what happened today in flint. now dr. mona is in charge. it was announced today in flint they have now set up the health initiative that's going to be in charge of testing kids' blood levels and doing long-term monitoring of all of those kids and doing long-term intervention with all of those thousands of exposed kids to treat what can be treated, to mitigate what can be mitigated, to do whatever interventioning can be done to try to mitigate the brain damage caused by the lead that all of

those kids were exposed to. since the scale of this problem became clear, everybody's basically been saying, my god there's going to have to be monitoring for years, all these thousands of kids and their families, they're going to need help and support for years, maybe for decades. as soon as you realize how big a problem this was and what happened, immediately realize that's what was needed. now that has finally been set up. they have put dr. mona attisha in charge of it, which is about the only thing in this whole crisis that seems right and competent, nightly. details on how to support the flint kids fund are online right now. maddowblog.com or flintkids p.m. com. they're taking dough naz from the public. we'll be right back. or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions

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about it, but also the force of her critique of governor snyder. she called him out for refusing, as she put it, him refusing for the help. she said she was outraged business his failure to fully engage the ferret goism. given what said and the sort of ferocity, we turned around right quick and asked governor snyder for comment tonight. we gave them a transcript of her remarks and we asked for a -- we did get back from a smidgen of news -- governor snyder this week spoke to the white house and homeland security secretary jeh johnson about what kind of assistance the federal government can provide. and there's staff in flint assisting, the governor already has asked for a pledge from fema to coordinate an interagency recovery plan that would coordinate other efforts to provide resources in flnt, and

then he said there are tremendous efforts to go door to dar to make water tests in homes. we are working on short and long-term plans to address health issues as we move forward, so governor snyder says he's talked to the white house, and specifically the homeland security secretary about this crisis in flint, that is new news, potential important news for flint. still not the same as calling of fema to do disaster response. we asked the governor if he has any plans to do that. we have not gotten an answer to that part of it yet, but stay tuned. ce for him is aleve. he's agreed to give it up. ok, but i have 30 acres to cover by sundown. we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. yeah, i was ok, but after lunch my knee started hurting again so... more pills. yep... another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? for my pain... i want my aleve. get all day minor arthritis pain relief

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>> debunktion junction, what's my function? we start with president obama who held a town hall event this morning as part of his generally quite upbeat, quite happy post state of the union tour. >> when i ran for office in 2007-2008, i did not say yes, i can. i said -- >> yes, we can! >> yes, we can, people. god bless you. love you. thank you, new orleans. god bless america. >> true or false, president obama was in new orleans today? no, president obama was not in new orleans. he was 80 miles away in poor put

upon baton rouge, louisiana. >> thank you, new orleans. >> and also baton rouge. next week he's expected to hold a similar event in the international auto show in detroit. thank you cakalamazoo. next up, a story from jane mayer who has written about the billionaire conservative activists koch brothers. she's a great reporter. one of the best of our age. and she has a new book out called "dark money." in this new book she tells a story about the koch brothers' dad named fred. they're well known to forceful responses to stories they feel slighted by. trust me. okay, back to papa koch. he helped build one of the largest oil refineryings in nazi

germany. a refinery that was personality approved by adolf hitler. as you might expect, this story has not pleased the koch brothers. the story that their dad has helped hitler, but is it true or false that fred koch, the koch brothers' dad, from whom they inherited their fortune and business, part of his business is that he helped build an oil refinery for the nazi, is that true or is that false? true. and the reason we know unequivocally that this is true because koch industries was very quick to respond to this story. and despite their anger about their story, their angry response to it had the side benefit of confirming the reporting. they put their response in a letter to koch industry employees this week. koch officials wrote between 1928 and 1934, winkler-koch engineering handled more than 500 project. of these, 39 involved signed contracts to build cracking units. one of those cracking units was

included in the refinery in the port area of hamburg, germany. simply put, it was just one element in the composition of a single refinely. koch brothers only built part of that refinery for the nazis. they also went to great lengths to point out, all of the other projects that dad's companies worked on that were not for the nazis. neat. except for that one that was. jane mayer wrote her own response to the koch's response essentially thanking them for, quote, confirming that koch was involved in the refinery that hitl hitler personally signed off on.

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back out there during the day. [ deep breath ] [ truck horn ] alka-seltzer plus day night liquid gels. also available, in stores alka-seltzer plus night time hot drink mix. so here's an intriguing update. this past friday, we reported that the justices of the u.s. supreme court were scheduled to discuss bob mcdonald. the federal corruption case va ra governor bob mcdonald. he was convicted of multiple corruption charges and was sentenced to two years in federal prison. he already lost his appeal at an appeals court. so the supremes considering his case this past friday, that's basically his last chance. it's a suspensableful thing. maybe the supremes will come to his rescue and hear his case. if they don't, though, governor mcdonald has to go to prison. the supremes had this case on

their docket to consider it on friday. we had thought that we would getz the court's order on the bob mcdonald case. we actually thought we would get it on monday this week. but it didn't happen. the justices talked about the case this past friday but monday rolled around, all week has rolled around now and they said neither yay nor nay about the case. bob mcdonald wasn't told no. back in august the justices stepped to in when they didn't have to and decided governor bob mcdonald would not have to report to prison. if they thought his appeal was baseless, it's unlikely they would have done that. so maybe these are all good signs for governor bob mcdonald. in any event, here's the very, very intriguing thing that's happened since. after the justices didn't say what they would do with his case on

monday, or any other day this week so far, the justices then said they would put it back on the docket to discuss it again starting tomorrow. so i don't know if hope springs eternal for the convicted governor, but hope certainly does have a little more spring in its step than it used to. tomorrow may very well be the biggest day in this case yet. watch this space. now it's time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. >> thank you. i'm watching the debate. we're going to watch it now. the republican front-runner for the presidential nomination had to wait 19 minutes to speak his first word in the debate tonight after the moderators called on six other candidates before they finally asked donald trump a question about refugees. but the debate really started at 9:26 p.m. when ted cruz was asked about being a natural-born citizen. joining us now is our msnbc corresponden t