even serve in office? >> well, listen, i've spent my entire life defending the constitution before the u.s. supreme court, and i'll tell you, i'm not going to be taking legal advice from donald trump. >> you and i'm not taking legal advice from donald trump. >> i hate to interrupt this. >> you had your chance marco and you blew up. i hope the president is watching. we're not against you. we're against your policies and we're going to kick your rear end out of the white house. >> i will gladly september the mantle of anger. >> my name was mentioned here. everyone needs to discount some of the things you're going to hear in the adds. every person here is better than hillary clinton. >> neal, i was mentioned. >> you were? >> yeah, he said everybody. >> all right. good morning. come on into the coffee shop.

welcome to morning joe live from java joes. in many ways, this is like a homecoming for us. >> it's like a homecoming. they feel like a family here. barack obama locking down victories in the state when tim decided to leave the safe confines of the civic center down the road and come over here and stay with us, it was a wonderful time. >> in 2012 it was rick sanatorium going toe to toe with mitt romney. >> and now we're back with the iowa caucuses just 17 days away. >> huge show ahead featuring

live interviews with the two candidates of the united states. we're going to talk to hillary clinton looking for a different result than 2008 and plus donald trump here on set fresh off his debate performance fresh off the set last night. we have a lot to get to. other candidates as well. with us we have mike barnical, former chairman of the national republican committee, michael steal and manager editor of the bloomberg politics, mark halperin. >> there were a lot of moments here in the debate a lot of back and forths and fiery exchanges, at the end of the day, it looks like everybody held served. aye got to say other than the new york times, you were there and covering it. most people thought actually as john for the new york post not a trump fan at all said it looked

like it was trump's night. >> trump has dominated the race and yet had his best debate last night. already ahead, way ahead in the new nbc news poll national. ahead in every state except here where he's tied with cruz. the guy's been a politician for a few months so he has a learning curve but he dominated the night. b for christie, b for rubio. b minus bush, kasich. c for carson. he said just imagine, you look at crowd hammer, the list goes on. some of the stuff is critics now

realizing this guy could win it and he's getting better by the day and i'm wondering whether some of them are starting to say what mika said a month ago which is watch out. he would actually be hillary clinton's toughest general election battle. >> i think they are. they realize donald trump will get on the stage and go wherefore he wants to go. the reality of hillary clinton is you can't go with him in a traditional way. >> and hillary clinton, a very traditional candidate. it's asymmetrical political warfare. something like these political

families have never seen before. >> we've gotten a preview of what that might look like on the attacks of clinton. last night, i think trump did well. it was a hostile crowd. it was more of an establishment crowd. >> you know, willie, the thing is, it was a hostile crowd and yet, he always got the laugh lines. he somehow turned their hostility against them. they started booing and they don't want ted to win either. everybody breaks out. there would be an attack and boos and he would have them laughing at the end. >> that's the mo-- ted cruz introducing donald trump's mother born in scottland.

donald said heck, i was born here, you weren't. >> a u.s. daily news headline, instant classic almost like the cry baby classic or before that. this is a male figure extended drop dead, ted. hey cruz if you don't like new york values, go back to canada. >> that was one of donald's strongest moments last night. it has been for the last three or four days. i have to tell you donald trump is a constant niagara of surprises. mark and i have been covering these things for a long time. me longer than you, mark. i have never seen a faster learner in american politics than donald trump. he adapts to the scene no matter where he is. he dominates the scene no matter where he is or what he's saying. >> let's take a look first of all at the clash over where ted

cruz was born and donald trump's back background. >> back in september, donald said he had lawyers look at this from every which way. there was nothing to this issue. since september, the constitution hasn't changed. but the poll numbers have. i recognize that donald is dismayed his poll numbers are falling in iowa. but the facts and the law here are really quiet clear. under long standing u.s. law, the child of a u.s. citizen born abroad is a natural born citizen. at the end of the day, the legal issue is straight forward but i would note that the birther theories donald has been relying on, some of the more extreme ones insist that you must not only be born on u.s. soil but

have two parents born on u.s. soil under that theory. not only would i be disqualified, marco rubio be disqualified, interestingly enough donald j. trump would be disqualified. because donald's mother was born in scotland. she was naturalized. >> but i was born here. remember that. >> on your citizenship, donald i'm not going to use your mother's birth against you. >> okay. good because it wouldn't work. here's the problem. we're running, we're running, he does great. i win. i choose him as my vice presidential candidate and the democrats sue because we can't take him along for the ride. i don't like that.

if fact is, and if for some reason he beats the rest of the field. see, they don't like that. they don't like that he beats the rest of the field because they want me. but and for some reason, neal, he beats the rest of the field, i already know that democrats are going to be bringing to suit. you have a big lawsuit over your head while you're running and if you become the nominee, who the hell knows if you can serve in office. >> why now are you raising this issue? >> because now he's doing better. no, i didn't care before. it's true. he never had a chance. now he's doing better and got a 4% or 5% chance. >> and the whole crowd laughing and now he's got a 4% or 5% chance. there's a strong back and forth there. i again wonder if that helps ted

c cruz at the end of the day. ted cruz spent the last 10 days explaining why he's a u.s. citizen and why he's qualified to be president of the united states and explaining his connections with goldman and sachs, explaining why he didn't report the loan, explaining accounting mistakes. he's spending all this time explaining. it's the last thing you want to do in the final stretch of the campaign. >> as they say, if you're explaining you're losing. this was a lost week for him. donald trump as effectively pushed him back on his heels and taken the conversation away from what ted wants to talk about and now he's talking about what donald trump wants ted to talk about. it's across the spectrum. he did it with the clintons. he neutered them right out of the box. you're going to come after me on women, boom, deal with this. he has this ability to blow up the argument before its made and

that is unique in politics. >> again, akmet symmetrical. the wall street journal said this is a two person race now. you can talk about the establishment lane and whose going to get 8, 9, 10, 11%. the guys in the 20s and 30s are trump and cruz. this is a two person race. >> none of the four establishment candidates went into the debate with a hot hand. two person race. interesting last night. cruz went after trump harder than he had to. >> by the way, we're showing a poll for those listening with the radio released right before the debate. donald trump 33% up 6 percentage points over the last month. ted cruz at 20%. that's a new high. down to roubio at 13, down to

carson at 12 plus 1. >> so people say last night that it's over. let's see. let's see if cruz wants to have an on going fight with donald trump. trump has not fought back aggressively. if cruz picks it up then beget the question can cruz survive better than everyone else? >> new york ci >> no. i think ted cruz can't survive those attacks. he had no choice. he had to fight his way up. >> last night you saw ted cruz prove while he was a debate challenge. >> he did well. he's an outside. after what michael was talking about, think of three principal candidates that have been in the

debate for a year. rand paul, ted cruz and jeb bush. jeb bush, he said low energy and that stopped him. now ted cruz, the citizenship issue, it's incredible. >> if you're a ted cruz fan you liked what he did last night which was to stand up to donald trump and fight donald trump for the first time on a big stage. when you reduce the field to two people, ted cruz actually leads donald trump. trump in the big crowded field is a 13 point lead. head to head he beats trump. that's what cruz is counting on. >> marco rubio and chris christie went after each other. other fireworks came from them

on the issue of immigration. take a look. >> that bill, one of the things it did was expanded barack obama's power to let in syrian refugees. the senate just a few weeks ago voted to suspend refugees to suspend them from the country. you tonight need to say we need to secure the boarders and at the same time try to give barack obama more authority. >> ted cruz, you use to say you supported doubling the number of green cards. now you say you're against it. you use to support a 500% increase in the number of guess workers. you use to support people here illegally. now you say you're against it. by the way, it's not just on immigration. you use to support tpa. now you say you're against it.

i saw you on the senate floor flip your vote on crop insurance because they told you it would help you in iowa. last week you also flipped you're vote. every single time there's been a defense bill in the senate three people team up to vote against it. bernie sanders, rand paul and ted cruz. >> i appreciate you dumping your research folder on the debate stage. i will say at least half the things marco said are flat out false. >> so marco rubio had several fi feisty moments and doesn't have reaction. nobody's saying he did real. >> rubio also finds himself in a difficult position. he is for the lack of a better terminology, he's the hope and change candidate for the republican party in 2016. he had to take a very tough turn last night.

also like cruz backed into the corner. i will say though, that exchange right there for people who said ted cruz had a good night, you can combine what donald trump did to him on new york and what marco rubio did there, marco rubio effectively vice rated his senate record as a conservative there. that was a really damming moment for ted cruz, was it not? >> cruz had some weak moments through the night. if you go on the establishment lane just on national polling and state polling, rubio is the one who seems poised. in the three-way in the same nbc news, wall street journal poll, trump wins. it's not clear rubio doing well

hurt trump. it helped him. i will say rubio last night did not rally the establishment to say we all need to go to rubio. all of them have something to prove. otherwise, it's a two person. >> marco has won all the debates in the past. the question was whether he could translate the support and phone numbers. >> last night, listening to the combination of both, in his mind as a candidate. he seems to think i have the most likable trophy on my shelf. he's shifting gears in the middle of the debate. it's interesting to watch him do that. >> one person we didn't mention is chris christie. >> this crowd is amazing by the way. it's hard to get in here with security. there's a huge line outside. everyone's having a good time. good morning.

they're talking to you, joe. >> two running candidates for the white house. live interviews with hillary clinton and donald trump right here at java joes. chris christie and carly fiorina joins as well. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. and can you explain why you recommend synthetic over cedar? "super food?" is that a real thing? it's a great school, but is it the right one for her? is this really any better than the one you got last year? if we consolidate suppliers, what's the savings there? so should we go with the 467 horsepower? ...or is a 423 enough? good question. you ask a lot of good questions... i think we should move you into our new fund.

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>> welcome back to morning joe. you're looking at java joes. our home away from home. a packed crowd outside waiting to get inside. waiting for donald trump. that's going to be coming up pretty soon. mika, what a scene this place is every four years and it feels for willie, you and me and mike

like we're coming home. >> it's first of many trips. i have a feeling there's going to be a band on stage performing live right before the caucuses. >> really? >> mika trying to get me up here. >> no, the manager here has it done. >> i have charts. >> joining us now president and pollster behind the bloomberg des moines senior white house correspondent chris jansing who lives on a plane these days. >> ann, we're going to try to make this as quick as possible. he said wonderful things about your poll. and four years ago. a lot of people were surprised that you were able to put together a model that would be able to predict the historic

rise for barack obama. for primaries, if you stand in line eight hours to see donald trump, you're going to vote for him. talk about your modelling right now. donald trump, ted cruz, marco rubio, what are you doing? what are you seeing? >> i have to tell you, i'm more of a science based pollster. model is a guess. >> caucuses too. >> well, the idea of what the electorate is going to look like. what i have is a method that doesn't let my own thoughts get in the way. people say you assumed 60% would be first time caucus goers for the obama situation. i said no, my data told me.

>> your data told you. what exactly, what's your data tell you right now? >> our data is telling us very much what was said eight years ago. about one in four people on either side are going to be first time caucus goers. we didn't see that serge. this is right now when everything is falling into place. >> and are you seeing right now in your data a certain candidate with people more determined to go out and caucus? >> well, there's two ways to look at it. we have ted cruz who has a higher proportion of people. donald trump has more people who say we will not be moved that they are stuck on him and cannot be persuaded to go otherwise. they can be stuck on him and stay home. it's a bit of more of an advantage for ted cruz. >> i guess that makes sense when

you look at the signs behind the data. it also jumped though, i'll put it up to chris and everyone out in the field here. these crowds have got to mean something. i also bring up sarah pay lin's cro -- palin's crowds. that was a different thing. it was amazing. a couple of things. one, the number that had never caucused before. they didn't just say that. people were grabbing my hand and looking in my eye and telling me how they felt about donald trump. i have never experienced that before in iowa. having said that, every single speaker had said here is when the caucus is. here's where it is at the high

school. they're packing up things. here's where you have to go. all those people, first time caucus goers who said they would go, i said do you know where you're going? no. do you know what you're doing? not really. this is going to be for me one of the most fascinating things. can we again turn politics on its head and have someone that appears to be. >> really, as tom said yesterday, trump's people are so good at organizing the rallies, they can organize a caucus and what we learned from the pensacola event was they were getting the names, e-mail addresses, all the information of all those 15,000 people and the 5,000 people that they sentway. will are a -- sent away on the ground. >> that's always been the argument from trump skeptics who said yes, he's got the crowds, yes, his poll numbers look good but those aren't the type of

people that's going to come caucus on a snowy night. give the level of enthusiasm we've seen and i'm interested to talk about the volatility of iowa polls in these last couple of weeks. >> we saw it in our data and didn't believe it on the first day. it took all four days for us to think this is real. >> can we talk about the democrats for a second? hillary clinton and bernie sanders appear to have a tightening race in iowa and new hampshire. i've heard conversations about whether or not that matters.

how much does it matter and how tight are these races? >> i can tell you from talking to people in washington who have a lot of people who are friends on the clinton campaign that there's a little bit of nervousness for them. look what happened the last time around and you know, i think that it does matter. obviously, it does matter. it matters to them in terms of momentum. it matters to them in terms of perception. i don't think there's a sense within that campaign and certainly from a lot of the democrats i've been talking to lately that they're in panic mode by any stretch of the imagination. a little bit of dejavu all over again makes people uncomfortable. >> she was running against barack obama eight years ago. a guy who if he could switch senates to his side could have a lot of black democratic voters go for him. right now, bernie sanders, you don't have a guy whose natural

con sit e is birmingham, alabama or charleston, south carolina. it's more burlington, vermont and stockholm sweden. so that is, south carolina is a bit of a firewall for hillary, is it not. >> let's see what happens in the first two states. nobody can tell you what the world looks like. the latest poll has the race high. sanders is building a coalition of obama goers. sanders has got momentum here right now. look, the clinton people are not panicked but they are deeply worried. you see every day this week they've done something. yesterday sanders put out an add that didn't mention hillary clinton. hillary did a conference call. they don't have a solution that

they have settled on on how to stop sanders. until they do, she's in danger. >> may be in danger here. i think we need to keep everything in perspective. eight years ago it was barack obama saying if i can win in iowa a state basically that is this white, i can win in south carolina. that's a completely different argument. then what bernie sanders has eight years later. >> he doesn't need to win south carolina. he can come back and has other opportunities. his fundraising explodes if he wins these two states. look, even if she loses the first two, she's still the favorite. give sanders a chance to make a case in california where he's closed the gap, the midwest whewith a lot of working class voters. >> ann, thank you so much. chris jansing thank you so much. where are you headed next? do you know? check your calender.

coming up, it's donald trump's ground game in iowa missing a head coach? we'll talk to the new york times reporter who says the billionaire is winning inspite of his organizing team. plus donald trump joins us here on set at java joes. we've had him in a diner but this is going to be a whole new experience. stay here and have a couple of coffee with us. >> donald trump with us at the top of 7:00. hillary clinton for the 8:00 a.m. hour. we'll be back in a moment. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis like me... and you're talking to a rheumatologist about a biologic, this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira helping me reach for more.

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i want to talk about the debate. it's a big deal. they just come out with the national numbers that bernie and you are kind of close. >> we're in a tight race. >> you had a 20 point lead at some point. >> that's really artificial. all those early soundings and polls. once you get into it, this is a democratic election for our nominee. and it gets really close, exciting and it really depends upon who makes the best case that you can be the nominee to beat whoever the republicans put up and try to get your folks who support you to come out. i find it exciting. this is not a job they give

away. you really do have to work hard for it. it is the hardest job in the world so i get up every day and go right at it. >> still ahead, hillary clinton, donald trump, chris christie and carly fiorina will all join us. plus she knows iowa politics as well as anybody. the chief reporter for the des moines register joins us. all next when morning joe coming right back live from java joes. in new york state, we believe tomorrow starts today.

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she was just hugging your daughter and said do you like me? and she goes yes. she said okay, i'm taking you home because my two daughters don't like me anymore. >> they don't like me anymore. they're 17 and 19. >> how old are you? >> i'm 10. >> 8 and 10. >> listen to the conversation. >> if you have any questions, join in. >> you go for it. absolutely. the chief politics from des moines joins us. in new york moderator of meet the press chuck todd with us. >> it almost sounded like mtv daily. so, chuck todd, obviously, i know we only have you for a couple of minutes because you got to run to another event. break it down for us. >> it looked like the race

separated into a three person race. the debate was dominated in some form or another by trump, cruz and rubio. with cruz feeling on the stage as if he was the front runner, although trump is the national front runner. everybody had of those three, everybody had some really good moments. i thought it was donald trump's best debate so far. i wouldn't call him the outright winner but i think the three of them collectively, there's just a separation now and they're more focussed on each other. i thought it was telling, by the way, that jeb bush and chris christie were, they tried to get in and had good moments. others didn't really beat them up anymore. you know what that tells us? neither christie or jeb were the threat they were a week ago. >> it's interesting too, what i noticed was donald trump other than that back and forth with ted cruz once again had

everybody staying away from him. they stay away from donald for the most part. >> right. >> iowains have been waiting to see how ted cru surks would react. they were eigwaiting to see if could stand the donald trump team. in the trump-cruz exchange, almost every single one of my iowains e-mails thought ted cruz

won even though trump did well. >> chuck, before we let you go, let's talk about iowa. i know you've been there. we have a couple of weeks to go here. right now, it's trump and cruz, do you see this changing? >> i don't. i think the only thing that could change is the battle for third. you feel as if it's trump and cruz and we're trying to find out cruz has the traditional organization. trump is trying to do something different. do all his folks show up? that will tell you how much he can narrow the gap. if fight for third is interesting. both chris christie and jeb bush, chris christie is spending his longest campaign stop or tour, i think he's doing three days in iowa. is battle for third is real and if one of them, they all think if one of them can get third

it's worth something and will catapult them in the second. watching last night's debate, i don't know if that is going to be enough to break the trump verses cruz dynamic. >> it does seem like the polling data suggests that. you talk to a republican operative, officials, numbers on the hill and they too are starting to perceive it as a two person race and stuck in the

race between cruz and trump. it's a little weird talking about this in private conversation. yesterday about how the establishment in some respect is really talking themselves into getting comfortable with the donald trump candidacy in ways they would never, with the ted cruz candidacy for a variety of reasons. some of the establishments continue to believe donald trump is for better or worse putting on an act right now. >> it was a semicat most of his life. it's interesting to me whether you're watching the fox news commentators that had blissering attacks on donald trump.

they now seem to be moving not in support of donald trump but certainly saying positive things about how good he is at this game. i think they just know the math. >> yeah. >> it's not donald trump that leads to a vedefeat. it's ted cruz because trump, none of the rules of the game apply to donald trump. >> exactly. i think it's really what sam is saying. >> also, one other thing. over the past week and a half with a single instagram posting, he put the entire clinton machine back on their heels. >> when the establishment looks at that. >> i kind of disagree with this. i think he's asymmetrical in terms of doing politics. there is this whole problem for republicans and demographics,

right. these basically offended every person of color at the junction. >> what surprises me, you look at the hispanic numbers and they were where myth romney is at the end of the campaign. >> that's not good. >> i know. donald trump has tried so much harder. can he still? i'm telling you, the rules that afly to mitt romney and jeb bush and really apply to any of them do not apply to donald trump. >> that's true. here's the front page of the des moines register. rename the paper. the jacob register. you got a fascinating piece

about the trump magic here and what's interesting is it's not about specific issues. it's about him being strong and about him being a leader. it's about him being a guy who voters who support him believe he can change the way business is done in america. >> is he the gun candidate? he use to call for gun restrictions. people believe the way he portrays himself. they believe anything he says. he has the trump magic and salesmanship. >> we've got to get the exact line from the column in the new york post. he wrote when he said as much as i hate to say it, donald trump wiped the stage with everybody. he was talking about the

incoherence of a certain answer. he said he actually, it was in conflict with himself five or six times in about 30 seconds. he goes yet it was strong period strong period strong period. >> if donald trump wins iowa, he wins it all. everybody else can pack up and go home unless something extraordinary happens between iowa and new hampshire.

donald also a big movie fan. tell us. >> yet another jennifer jacobs piece. trump ran urbandale theater. on friday he's going to get three tickets to watch. >> do you know who your parents are voting for? >> i think dad is voting for trump. >> girls, thank you so much for being with us. >> you're sweet. so bye. >> what are happened to shake and bake? >> i've got a message for all of them. shake and bake. >> what does that do?

blow your mind? you know what else, you never let me win one time. >> i thought we had a good thing going, shake and bake. >> he told me it's our time now. shake and bake is dead. >> we just came up with a new one. >> it's so good. >> all right. when the dynamic due owe ted cruz and donald trump is no more. donald trump joins us live. plus hillary clinton. >> by the way, this guy, this guy was in south carolina a couple of hours ago talking to the press after the debate. now he's in des moines, iowa. that's extraordinary. no sleep. >> also, hillary clinton going to join us live in our 8:00 hour. morning joe is coming right back live from java joe.

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nikki said i'm a close friend of hers. she did say there was anger. i'm very angry because our country is being run horribly and i will gladly accept the

mantle of anger. obama care, we're going to appeal it and replace it. we have no borders. our vettings are being treated horribly. illegal immigration is beyond belief. our country is being run by incompetent people. one of the colleagues interviewed me and said well, she said you were angry. i said to myself, she's right. i'm not fighting that. i didn't find it offensive at all. i'm angry because our country is a mess. >> welcome back to morning joe. it's friday, january 15th and we're live at morning joe's home away from home at des moines, iowa. java joes is where it all began and we're back here this morning 17 days away from the caucuses and republican presidential

candidate donald trump is with us right now. he got here from south carolina with the debates. >> with born in the u.s.a. playing the whole way. >> really? sure. so that your new campaign keeps going i'm born in the u.s.a. i guess it had to be shocking in the news that your mother was born in scottland last night. >> i've learned for the first time i wasn't a citizen. that wasn't very nice when you think of it. >> you wonder where that went? >> okay. wait, let me do it. get them out. don't give them their coats. >> it's minus 80 out there and there's meteors coming down, throw them out. >> you and ted cruz went at it last night. there's different ways of looking at the results of this debate. a lot of people say no one won therefore you won.

a lot of people said you won. a lot of people looking closely at iowa saying ted cruz won. are you concerned about iowa? ? i think we're doing great in iowa. cnn has us 23-20 in the last poll. i would love to win iowa. we have a great relationship with the people of iowa. i would love the win it. i know it would be nice to say i want to do well. i think we can win iowa. >> talk about the debate last night. most people have haven't been your supporters in the past, even john said you basically wiped everybody else out. how do you feel about the debate and are you still willing to say ted cruz is a nice guy? >> i'm not sure about a nice guy. he came at me inappropriate. he's got a problem and got to straighten out the problem. in fact, i think he had a couple

of suits filed yesterday against him running which is exactly what i've been saying. i don't know he's a nice guy. he's a good debater but very strie dant. the grudge and time and all the different online polls had me winning the debate by a lot. i immediately looked at that. i want to see how did i do? i checked the online polls and they have 200,000, 300,000 people calling in. i won every one of them. i'm happy about that. i thought ted did not have a good night last night and i thought his hit on new york was disgraceful thankfully. i haven't been to sleep yet. i came in from great south carolina to great iowa. we have some great places but so i just got off the plane. a lot of people are hitting him for what he said about new york. i thought it was terrible.

you know you have offended about 20 million people and that's a lot of people. >> not only that but as we said on the anniversary of september 11th, america put their arms around new york after 9/11. it's on the frontline of the terror fight in the country. >> yeah, and i think a lot of people hear new york values and they think about the men and women who run into the buildings and the men and women who rebuilt the buildings. >> when you think about it, think about the firemen who run up the stairs and coming from queens and the tunnel and going a hundred miles an hour and going up to save people and know the building has a big chance of coming down and the policemen and all these guys are going up and all the medical care running up the building. those people say they're not coming down. this was an amazing thing. >> given your concerns about ted cruz's eligibility, would you

consider him to be your vice president? he was a popular guy and doing well in polls. not as well as you are but a -- >> he's not doing that well in south carolina or nationally, what bothered me was when he lied. he said i've done well in the polls and he hasn't. in fact, the poll that just came out he saw was nbc wall street journal and the headline was trump goes way up and cruz goes way down. >> so you wouldn't want him as your vice president? >> i don't want to think about that. i want to win first and then we can think about that. >> he may not be qualified. here's the new york times nbc wall street journal poll that shows donald trump 33%. we've been having a lot of fun with this.

saying several times how we pity you and you should drop out of the race of course, mocking what people have been saying the past six months. your ceiling is only 10, 15, 20. we've seen it in real time. now we're seeing a lot of polls where you're up in the 40s. are you starting to notice the republican establishment and some of the guys that have been hammering you in the past starting to change how they treat you and how they look at your candidacy? >> totally. establishment people are now calling us and now saying how do we get involved with the campaign? people are saying terrible things like three months ago and it's called welcome to the world of politics. >> we have the report about more talks about a brokers convention. >> i think they talk because it's exciting. i don't think that's going to

happen. >> so let me ask you about iran and the capture of the 10 soldiers. the video that was released. is its the fact they are free and coming home a sign that deal had an impact? >> no. >> why? >> because there's more people. the persians are great negotiators. they wanted $150 billion. >> do you think if that bill wasn't in place the soldiers would be home? >> no. the only reason they're home is because we owed them $150 billion due in three days. nobody ever mentions this. what about the other four prisoners they have there? we have forgotten about them. the minister, the reporter from the washington post. what about the four people there right now? >> i'm going to take it from another angle. mika and i strongly disagree on this. i think the deal was a disgrace. i think the president showed

extraordinary weakness and think what happened yesterday and what's happened over the past month shows the iranians are bad people. their leaders are bad people. my question is this. why do you go along with that deal? you've said if you were president. >> i talk about how incompetent this leadership is. >> you said in an earlier debate if you're elected president, if it's a deal you got to respect that deal. can't you figure out a way. >> here's what i mean. i'll do things to that deal. i make a living buying out bad contracts. the problem with me going in, the 150 billion is gone. >> it's already gone. >> that's the problem. >> one thing we can't do, the money was gone. i would break it 100%. i would have broke it on the way they treated us with our young sailors. i saw the picture. mika, say what you want.

they're sitting on their knees in a begging position with hands up and guns at the back of their head and we're suppose to say they treated us nicely. i would have broken it on that b basis and said keep your 150. >> the men do hostage videos. >> there are people inside the republican party now considering that the very real possibility you'll be the nominee and some have concerns about whether you can win a general election. they watched what happened to mitt romney with latino and african american voters. a lot of it is because of the things you've said about illegal immigration and muslims. >> whether or not you like it or not. >> that you'll offend some of those voters and for a republican to win they need those voters desperately. what do you say to ease the minds of those kinds of republicans who have trouble voting you because they don't think you can win the general?

>> polls come out where i'm beating hillary. forget that. i don't think that's right. i'm going to win states they've never thought of winning. i have a chance of winning new york state. we're going to win west virginia big and win virginia and win places we're not formally, nobody else is going to win. we're going to win new jersey and pennsylvania, florida and ohio. we're going to win places that a lot of people aren't going to win. we're going to have the largest turnout in the history of the country. most of those people have never voted before because they're tired of being run and led by stupid people. >> are you confident that the people in iowa who stand in line who show up 15 t,000 at a time

support you and see the donald trump show, are you confident they'll go out on that monday night and caucus for you? >> i am. look, they show up and i have the biggest crowds by far. far bigger than bernie. he's second by the way. far bigger than bernie and it's hard to believe someone's going to be waiting for five hours in the snow and then i could go for 20 or 40 minutes to either caucus. >> my brother thrilled to brother deuce you. it was hard for me to grasp. again, mika and i, willie and happen rin were saying we thought you were going to do well before anybody else was saying it. even looking at the pennsylvania pictures. i was there a week before george

w. bush was elected in 2004 and held the rally. i saw reagan. reagan's crowds weren't this big. in 79 and 80 when reagan came to pensaco pensacola. if you're being honest, you don't get it either. you didn't think it was going to be this big, did you? >> you know lately i've said this is a movement. people are tired with the way we're run. >> why are all those people coming out 11 months, this isn't a -- i want to know why you think people are sitting in these arenas, sitting there to see you as a little speck down there to talk 11 months before the general election? >> because something has hit the heart. it's like a love fest. pensacola sent away 7,000 peo e

people. despite what mika said, it was disgusting what they did putting guns to the heads of those young people. >> you did get protests as well. you had some at the top of the show. you seemed to relish. it seems to almost add to the

performance value of the your events. they don't rattle you, they engage you. >> i'll go home and my wife says who is a big fan of yours will say did you have any people there and i'll say about 20,000. she says what about the protesters and they won't move the camera. they immediately show that's a neg ti. they show the protesters. i love the protesters. it's the only way to get the cameras to show how big the crowds are. >> most people are speculating. it certainly seems to me and to a lot of us if you in iowa

you're off to the races. how do you convince your skeptics that all the people that show up are going to caucus that know how to caucus. >> do you have the organization? >> that's what's going to happen. joe, in two weeks, right. >> the fact is i think we can come in first for iowa and it's off to the races. >> we're going to bring our friends in next. mike, can you come here for a second. we're just reading from trump the art of the deal. trump says as far as i'm concerned, a deal is a deal.

i live up to what i agreed to. we have a bet if you win the nomination mike has to buy me a truck. >> mike was betting against me? mike was not good to me, i have to be honest but lately he's been nice and i like him. his wife is spectacular. >> thank god for ann. >> we don't talk about her, right mike? she's an amazing woman. >> you know what mike says about ann? >> what? >> that she gives him the best allowance any guy can have. >> tell him the bet. >> the bet was you're going to win the republican nomination. that's the contract. >> i'm thinking it's a contract. >> i have one question about the bet. what color? >> i'm thinking navy or forest green. mike's going to join us with

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welcome back to morning joe live from java joe's in des moines, iowa. he has a few fans here. >> just a few. they have a book on the lines. they're helpful. >> it's interesting too. we've been talking about the trump phenomenon. i was telling you i thought donald had a great chance because my brother bought art of the deal in the 1980s and became a massive fan of donald's and

deep roots. we just brought in the owner of java joes. what did he tell you? >> he said i read your book and that's what did it and i said i want a piece of this restaurant, right. >> the unemployment rate in iowa is 4% and nationally it's descent when you look at it. wage growth here in iowa and across the country has not caught up to the rise in economy. for most people wage growth has remained stagnant. if you believe wage growth is stagnant, how do you go about linking up to the two? >> first of all, the median income was higher 10 years ago than it is now.

>> people look for a job and give up and now considered employed. it's a phony number, a number meant for politicians to make them look good. when you say 5.2% in this country, there's no way. if it was that number, i wouldn't have 35,000 people coming to rallies. believe me. they would not be coming. >> it's not just jobless coming to the rallies, it's wageless. >> the quality of the jobs is low. it's bad. other thing is part time jobs. >> mexico doing a number on us. i'm doing great with the hispanics and employee somehows.

right now, 10s of somehows over the years. >> the leaders of mexico cunning. they're more cunning than our leaders and taking advantage. companies are moving. nabisco just left moving their big plant to mexico. everybody's going to mexico. we're losing so much. >> i want to bring it back to wages. isn't that the problem. what would you do to try and inkus energy into the wages american people are taking home? >> it's all about the jobs. we have to bring jobs and manufacturing back.

>> what policies can bring those jobs back? >> we need spirit in this do country. we need spirit. it doesn't have spirit. look, people love the country. but they don't have a cheerleader. i thought one thing in obama, i thought he would be a great cheerleader. i never thought he was going to be a good president. i thought he would be a good cheerleader. he's a divider. he's not a cheerleader, he's a divid divider. if you're african american which i think i'll do fantastically with the african american vote. if i get 25% the election is over, if you're african american you're horribly. african american youth is doing worse than it's done. >> we had tavis smiley on two days ago and the head of black

studies from princeton saying the same exact thing. the situation has gotten much worse over the past eight years. mark halperin, let's move back to the debate. you did something last night on your report card you've not done before. you gave out an a, a-minus. >> the performances have been strong. >> question for the candidate? >> votings is going to start in two weeks and all across the country they're going to come. you found a lot of support. you've got a lot of undecided voters in iowa and across the

country. >> i think we're going to do well here. we have a tremendous group of voters going to vote. you know by a long shot they're the most loyal. we have people who say you can do anything. i say i love my people. i do love my people. i thought cruz hurt himself last night badly. he looked very stridant, to me. i think you're wrong about that. people are not going to like him based on the list. i can tell you one thing if you live in new york you're not going to like him. he gave up about 20 million votes. >> a lot, if you're believing what you're going to vote. they live paycheck to paycheck. >> true. what can you tell them about a trump presidency that would relieve the pressure and anxiety that comes living week to week,

paycheck to paycheck? >> how long in there. we're going to be there soon. it's going to come back. i'm doing a tax plan i've gotten a lot of great things said about it. we're giving a lot to middle income people. all my life i've dealt with emissions. i saw to all the people, all of them. new hampshire i have tremendous leads. hang in there. it's going to come back there are things we can do to make it greater than ever before.

>> last night a lot of the talk and focus was about hillary clinton. in the last couple of weeks you've put back on the table. what do you think bill clinton's personal life tells the country about hillary clinton? in other words, why is bill clinton's life a concern to you about hillary. >> i hate to do it. she made one statement about me and i hate to bring that up. i can't believe he's having a great time on the trail. look. you look at their life and all of the problems together with white water and one problem after other. >> we neat to get going and

knock the held out of isis. >> you talk about iran, we gave them iraq. that's better than the deal they made. we ended up giving them iraq. >> you compared bill clinton to bill cosby in the instagram add. why is bill clinton's personal life a prb for hillary clinton in your life? >> i don't want to get into that and hurt anybody. i'm saying he's got difficulties and problems and if they want to play the dirty card and i don't think they will but if they want to, they've got a lot of problems. there are those who said she's an enabler. i don't want to get into it too much. i want to win on my own mayor. i want to put people back to work and bring spirit back to the country. if you look at the clintons and all that, there was a lot of bad

karma going on during that period of time with the impeachment. there was always problems and difficulties. we want to get out of that. >> let's talk about the problems we have now. big problem in this country with guns. a resent new york times survey showed 62% of people were in favor of president obama's executive action on dpguns and e same poll said 85% had no problem with the background checks. what's your problem with the background checks? >> he shouldn't be doing deals that way. he's suppose to get together with the senators and congressmen to get in a room and look at a deal everybody agrees to. >> get the nra involved and maybe you can do something. >> maybe background checks? >> it depends. >> i say do nothing to hurt the

second amendment. you can't touch the second amendment. we have so many checks and balances and the federal govpt is a hard job. you take a look at paris and california recently with the 14 people killed. if there were guns in that room, you wouldn't had 130 people killed in paris. you wouldn't have had 14 people killed in los angeles. you need guns for protection. now we have a president that wants to let isis. >> that's not answering the question. >> i say this. we need protection and we don't have to take chunks out and you have background checks. you have a lot of and you understand what i'm saying. you have a lot of background checks now. the government doesn't use them. >> mark halperin. >> here's another thing. big mental health problem. >> guns don't pull the trigger,

sick minds pull the trigger. we have big mental health problems. >> you want certain people in certain categories to watch it. >> i tell you what, you know what i want to do. we have 19 trillion in debt and they made a stupid budget recently. they're adding another 2 trillion at least. hey, we know where the democrats are coming from. the republicans approved that deal. that's another two. we're at $21 trillion. i want to knock the hell out of them. you have to knock that and we can do it waste, fraud and abuse is massive in this country. if you look at some of these agencies, how big and fat they are, you can cut and have them run better than they're running now. look, we want to protect the odds. it's important. we have to do a lot of things.

>> what about transportation? i'm a fiscal conservative. that's why i got involved 20 years ago. yet, i look at how bad our transportation system is across america. you look at new york. the airports are an absolute disgrace. they are a third world airport. they've got the bridge, i think that was build during the aggression. the lincoln tunnel i think was built during the depression. penn station built during the depression. >> bridges are in trouble of maybe falling down. >> don't we have to reinvest in infrastructure. >> and yet we're spending trillions of dollars in the middle east, the whole thing is just like a total disaster. we shouldn't have been there but we have to do something with isis. i will say this. you go to china and i go what

was that that just went by? a speed train. they have trains going 3 and 400 miles an hour. this country is becoming a third world country. infrastructure is important, transportation, all that, schools, bridges, tunnels, roads. you look at these roads and highways with the horrible readings. you know the stuff that warps. somebody is the greatest salesman in the country. this guy, i want to find out who he is. he has to be so wealthy. it's such garbage. >> where in the list of your domestic priorities would be wiring this country the way china is wired up? >> you have to do the grid. the grid is a disaster that's

waiting to happen. we have a grid that's so old it's crumbing and falling apart. our country is falling apart and we'll spend $2 trillion in iraq which by the way is just, think of it. $2 trillion, thousands of lives and wounded warriors all over the place that's the greatest place and we have nothing. iran is going to go over and take it over. they're going to get second to largest in the world, iran is taking it over. that's a much better deal, mika than the 150 billion. people don't know about that. the best deal iran made isn't the 150 billion and by the way, they're going to get nuclear weapons, the best deal they made was we gave them iraq. they've been trying forever and for years, they were the same. we obliterated the iraqi military. >> all right. donald trump. thank you so much. very good having you on the show. >> thank you.

>> are you good? are you good? okay. >> all right. we're just getting started this morning. still to come hillary clinton and chris christie going to join us live. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. the future belongs to the fast. and to help you accelerate, we've created a new company... one totally focused on what's next for your business. the true partnership where people,technology and ideas push everyone forward. accelerating innovation. accelerating transformation. accelerating next. hewlett packard enterprise. may not always be clear... but at t. rowe price, we can help guide your retirement savings. for over 75 years, investors have relied

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we're following the breaks news out of hawaii. on board, two marine helicopters that crashed off the north shore late last night. nbc chief pentagon correspondent following the story and joining us now. >> u.s. military officials tell u.s. news the marine helicopters were conducting a night time training mission when they collided in midair. coast guard rescue helicopters arrived on the scene. reports spotted a burning debris field in the water and an empty life raft. no sign of any survivors. the rescue and search efforts continue there off the coast of hawaii and obviously, it's not been determined exactly yet what caused the crash but 12 marines missing after that midair collision off the coast.

>> jim, thank you very much. up next, mark pulls back the curtain on the 2016 race and give us a look inside the circus when morning joe continues live from des moines. we give you relief from your cold & flu.

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we had traveled for over 850 miles. my men driven nearly mad from starvation and frostbite. today we make history. >>bienvenidos! welcome to the south pole! if you're dora the explorer, you explore. it's what you do. >>what took you so long? if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. >>you did it, yay! the idea of doipg meetings like we've done tonight, it was also a question of looks and seeing what and who was running. what i thought about was the fact this country faces enormous

crisis and i don't think her ideas are the kind of changes this country needs. >> that was a look at show times the circus. a new real time political documentary series that offers an exclusive look into the 2016 presidential race and mark, this is going to be good. tell us about it. >> show time is free this weekend. people can sample it. i'm excited about it having done this a long time this was something we've never done. every week a documentary about the campaign. first episode is the outsiders. three of the hottest candidates in the race, bhiepd the scenes with all of them. we break down the trump rally in pensacola a couple of nights ago. you'll see how a trump rally looks and feels. a lot of time with bernie sanders and ted cruz here on the

trail in iowa. i learned something about these three guys having spending time with them in washington seeing how they work. >> we're going to bring into the conversation from north charleston south carolina msnbc correspond nt casey hunt. you stopped by the meeting yesterday, what was the discussion there like? >> hey guys, well you know the five stages of grief, shock and denial and eventually anger and finally you get to acceptance. it's almost as though the republican party has reached the last stage of grief with donald trump or at least a big chunk of them have. the meeting last time around you remember was bush verses romney and it was whether or not romney was going to get in the race and whether or not these operatives were going to go to work for scott walker or jeb bush. that's changed quiet frankly. the conversation was there was a little bit of should we pick donald trump, ted cruz, which

one is worse for us and i have to tell you there's a little emerging school of thought that says actually, we think trump might be better off to be in the general election and you know, i think they feel a lot of people who think that way feel like he really has the excitement on his side and a chance at beating hillary clinton where as cruz might be more of an ideal who might be seen as a politician and turn people off. >> casey hunt, thank you so much. i think you teed that upper if he cannily. sam, is the huffington post going through those stages as well? >> we've finished with that? >> are you sure? >> this is our 1th stage, we're good. we feel great about it. >> i'm sure you do. you're finally where you need to be. >> the republican establishment talking about a brokered convention when the rest of the world realizes this looks like a

trump-cruz battle. >> some were saying it can't be a brokered convention. i am curious if owhat happens ie of them emerges. they just don't want the chaos. maybe that's what happens. we think there's going to be a massive fretting over a donald trump candidacy. >> okay. joining us now by phone is new york governor, glad to have you with us this morning. wanted to chat with you about some of the rhetoric on the campaign trail over the last couple of days. ted cruz accusing donald trump of embodying new york values using that saying it's liberal and agrease evidence and not in line. what's your reaction fron the comment of senator cruz. >> i believe it's highly

offensive. not just because i'm the new york governor, it was anti american. it wasn't just anti new york. in 30 seconds the man was offensive to gays, women by attacking pro-choice women and this is what he does. this is the politics of division, right. it's also why this country is in the situation it's in and why we have the grid look and why you can't govern. you can't defend 18 million people. you can't defend one of the largest states in the country. you can't defend one of the largest delegations in the country. it's exactly opposite what they say. they're suppose to be expousing american values. all of them out of one, that's what this country was about. that's how he got here, by the

way. you think the signs said only people from canada that happen to come from spanish-irish descent. we said everyone is welcome. canada that happen to come from spanish and irish descent, he said everyone's welcome. it's disturbing on every level. hypocritical. hypocritical of new york money. i'm sure he won't take a donation from anybody in new york. as you know, joe, we have a vibrant conservative movement in this state. we have about 30% of the people who identify themselves as conservatives. in my legislative body we have people who are very conservative. we have political differences, but we don't have political divisions, and that's the difference. that's how we have consensus, and that's how our legislature functions, by respecting the

differences, not by trying to explode them into divisions. >> governor, can you briefly talk about september 11th because when donald -- i found it very interesting on our set. we were surrounded yesterday by people who probably have never voted for a republican in their lifetime and when we replayed an interview that he had with mark halperin, all the people around the set were agreeing with donald trump and going, yeah, yeah, because everybody remembers september 11th. they remember the new yorkers who were running up those stairs when everybody was trying to get out. those running to their deaths, the first responders, the cops, those putting their lives on the line. talk about the values of new yorkers on september 11th, 2001. >> that's a very good point. i think trump raising it was

politically expedient possibly but also resonated with people. you know, as cruz is saying anti-new york and trying to bring up a negative stereotype that is offensive, 9/11 is the exact opposite. a and, by the way, joe, 9/11, is the symbol of this country's better angels and the essence of what americans feel. 9/11 was one of us is in need. it's the state of new york. what do we do. the visceral reaction, the intuitive reaction of the people in the country was we have to go help because it's "we." and there was no division, and there was no east coast/west coast. and you had people from all over the country coming to help on

9/11, not just new yorkers, joe. it was a nationalizing moment that we haven't had in popular political history. >> no doubt. >> we do believe we're one nation. >> governor andrew owe mcuomo, s for calling in. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> i notice i had everybody around the table going like this, people who had been critical of donald throughout much of the campaign when he said it from the start. actually, you have to question. a lot of people struck by the response. of all of his answers, not only did we think it was the best, but the most heartfelt. >> emotional, passionate, and speaking of himself. >> usually gut. that was heart.

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[ applause ] all right. welcome back to ""morning joe." it's friday, january 15th and we're live from java joe's in des moines, iowa. it's 17 days until the caucuses, and we're come back for the caucuses. do you know that, willie? get ready. joe's going to perform for the fans. >> we need a house band. >> you can do the tambourine. and barnacle, the cymbal. we have msnbc and senior political editor and white house correspondent for "the huffington post" sam sign and he'll be joining us later and "new york times" reporter trip gabriel. good to have you on board, sir. >> tripp, let's start with you. the debate, what did you think? >> i thought it was the most

interesting debate so far. i thought it was a big moment for ted cruz, the beginning, and a very big moment for donald trump later on talking about new york values. i thought marco rubio did well. he was attacked on immigration, which was a weak point for him. he came back with a policy-driven defense two-thirds of the way in the debate. >> you said trump was most conventional last night as a politician. what did you mean? >> you know, his responses were succinct. i don't know if he practiced them, looked in a mirror, but they seemed a little less off the cuff than in earlier debates. he sat back and let a lot of policy clashes go on around him. >> we're not -- i was going to say we're not usually used to donald trump being disciplined. >> i think disciplined is a good word. >> i was trying to get to the bottom of donald trump's organization here in iowa

because there's a big question, is he going to have what mike huckabee had in '08 where he didn't really have an organization but just a lot of other forces led huckabee to win or is it going to be methodical. talk about trump's organization. you studied it pretty closely. what do you find? >> he has about a dozen people here, maybe 15 people. it is -- i think he set it up originally to be a surprise with a lot of people early on. he hired some pretty experienced people to do a conventional ground game in iowa. from what i've seen lately, they got way behind the ball in terms of meeting some of their own benchmarks. they promised, for example -- there are almost 1,700 caucus precincts and they promised to have a captain for every one of those precincts. they got way behind that. they just started recruiting in mid-december.

they made a lot of rookie mistakes and they continue to make a lot of rookie mistakes. >> i was going to say, just practically in the state of iowa, how does that affect him? he was sitting here saying look at the polls. i'm doing a great. i'm up ten points. why is it important that you say he's falling behind in this ground game? >> there's a very conventional way to run this game in iowa. the conventional game is folks don't just come out. you don't just get -- if you're polling at 25%, you don't automatically get 25% of the turnout. it's a lot more complicated to come at 7:00 in the evening to participate in a caucus than to drop by a poll any time during a primary election. so conventional candidates have put out field teams to get people to their caucus sites. trump hasn't done it as

aggressively as candidates have in the past. he may be right, no question about it. >> i see you struggling with this trip. we're going to talk about this later, the whole practicing in the mirror thing. the moderators asked a question about entitlement reform. they continue to give their thoughts. that's when chris christie jumped in. >> i'd like to actually answer the question you asked which was on entitlement. do you remember, that everybody? this was on entitlement. and the reason -- you already had your chance, markey. you blew it. here's the thing. the fact is the reason why that no one wants to answer entitlement up here is because it's hard. it's a hard problem. i'm the only one on this stage who back in april put forward a detailed program to save 1

trillion dollar, save social security, save medicare, and avoid this, avoid what hillary rodham clinton will do. she'll come in and raise social security taxes. bernie sanders already said it and she's one or two poll drops down moving further left more left than she is already to get to bernie on this. >> let's bring in republican presidential candidate governor chris christie of new jersey. governor, thanks so much for being with us. i should talk with you about entitlement but i should ask you about the debate last night. what was your take? >> listen. i felt we had a good debate last night, to be able to talk about issues we really care about and to be ourselves. i told you from the very beginning, that's my goal, listen to the question, answer the question, and be myself, and i think we accomplished all those things last night. >> entitlement reform, third

rail of the american politics, nobody wants to talk about it. you have talked about it. you talked about it when a lot of people said you had nothing to prove. now you're getti inting competi in new hampshire. are you still going to be telling the americans the truth about an entitlement system that's going to go bankrupt in the next 20 years? >> of course. we're definitely going to do that. the reason why is if we don't do it we're never going to be able to tackle the $19 trillion in debt, you know that, joe, we're not going to be able to rebuild our military and secure our medicare and social kurt for future generations without a heavy tax increase which is what bernie sanders and hillary clinton would give you. they all talk about other things. that's why i jumped in. i thought someone needed to answer the question.

>> governor christie, it's really good to see you this morning. >> hey, willie. >> i want to bring up two things you raised on the debate stage that you brought up and shot down. has governor christie or any form of chris christie ever written a check to planned parenthood? >> no, not me or anything. >> you've never written a check to planned parenthood. >> no, no, not as a private citizen, governor, or anything in between. >> that's what i meant. >> yeah. >> and did you support sonia sotomayor because you were quoted as saying you -- >> you should shred everything you read in the star ledge eer. its like "seinfeld." everything you read, take the

opposite. i said she was not the type of justice i would recommend. that's hardly supporting someone. that's saying someone should get an up or down note. >> mike barnicle. >> governor, it's always nice to see you in any form. did anyone mention the lack of mention or lack of focus on wage growth or the lack of wage growth in this country where we have so many people living paycheck to paycheck? if you were elected president of the united states, what steps could you take to help wage growth increase for the first time really substantively in about a decade? >> really quickly. >> even more, mike. it's been about 15 years for hard workers. i brought it up last night about the decline in wage growth. we need to you the economy at a 4% clip. that's what we need to do.

the problem right now is with all the regulation that we have and with the tax code that is designed for the rich, that's the problem. i didn't say this last night but i said it before on the campaign trail. president obama has been the best president for the wealthy in recent times. the wealthy have done extraordinarily well for barack obama. the reason is because of the complicated t complicated tax loopholes. those are the ones that real hard-working taxpayers use. if grout rid of all those other things the wealthy would be paying a lot more taxes even with loyer rates. when we get more money into the system, we're going see wages go up and the economy grow and we reduce the regulation. how about this, mike. for a manufacturing job, someone who has a manufacturing job, the cost of regulation, federal regulation, is $34,000 per

employee. you cannot raise wages when you're paying that much to comply with federal regulation. that's part of the problem as well that we'll get rid of if i'm president. >> hairks governor, michael steele here. we're just a few weeks out before the first votes are taken in this campaign. a lot of you have bunched together, you, jeb bush, marco rubio. we've seen the elbowing between you and rubio, for example. how do you see to break yourself out of that pack to go head to head against cruz and trump? >> we weren't even in that bunch a few months ago. two months ago i was off the stage for the main debate. now we ask people how we're going break out to be the chamger between trump and cruz. that's a great news. it shows you're making progress and moving. that's a great. we're going to continue do what

we're doing. we're going to head out on a plane. do four days in iowa. come home, get a change of clothes and head to new hampshire for five days and continue to do the things we've been doing. people want to look you in the eye and ask you questions directly. last night there were shots taken at me and the person taking the shots can't look me in the eye. that's what they wavoters want >> whoo w.h.o. a are you talkin there? >> senator rubio. >> let me ask you. halperin and heilemann have a show called "the circus." it's appropriate. let's talk about the circus the last week, week and a half. i want to talk about a question ra raised by donald trump a week

and a half ago. it's been knocked around by nancy pelosi, the senate majority leader and many others. is ted cruz qualified to run and serve as president of the united states as a guy who was born in canada? >> yes. >> okay. thank you very much. >> thank you. thank you. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> attorney and federal prosecutor christopher christie. you know, it's kind of -- it has been surreal. it's kind of like when the republicans tried to overturn the 14th amendment not so long ago. there have been more surreal legal questions raised over the past six months, eight months. thank you, chris christie. >> chris christie, iowa says hello. thank you very much. governor christie. >> i'll be there this afternoon to see them. i'm looking forward to it.

>> he's coming this afternoon. he looks forward to it. >> hey, trip, thank you so much for being with us. thank you so much for your reporting. >> you have to work on your poker face. i see denial. i see it. i see it. >> this is actually the question though. i think it is important for us to bring up here. iowa is the place that you have to caucus. it's the place where you have to go in and you have to do what rick santorum did six years ago. go county by county by county by county. there are exceptions to that rule. mike huckabee. i remember when we went to see mike huckabee back in 2008. we went out to rick santorum first and then chuck norris with mike huckabee. chuck and huck and we said, where's the governor. we don't know. so we walked through the crowd, we looked behind the curtains, is he back there, no.

we walked back behind the kur tans. nobody's backstage. we walked through a back door. he's got to be somewhere. we see a bus in the back. we walk to the bus. his organization was one college kid standing by the bus. we said, is mike in there. he said -- we walked in and talked to mike huckabee. almost no organization. and yet he ended up being swept to victory by the home schoolers and by a lot of other evangelical groups, so you never know. unlike new hampshire, this is the place f yif you don't want take a chance, organize, organi organize, organize. coming up this half hour, two women running for president joined by us. >> i've been blessed to do a lot

of things in my life and unlike another woman in this race, i actually love spending time with my husband. >> okay. carly fiorina joins us and so does democratic front-runner hillary clinton. we're live at java joe's in des moines. stay with us. don't fence me in♪ ♪ let me fly any time, ♪ any airline that i love, ♪ don't fence me in. ♪ give me a mile and a half ♪ for every buck i spend. ♪ double my miles when the first year ends. ♪ ♪ no annual fees, ♪ no blackouts, ♪ let the fun begin. ♪ don't fence me in. get the discover it miles card. introducing centrum vitamints. a brand new multivitamin you enjoy like a mint.

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jeb bush says he sees himself as a tortoise. he said that on the campaign trail. he gave the boy a toy turtle. he carried them around in his pocket. >> he gave toy turtles.

he tried realty turtles but they kept crawling out of his pockets and passing him in the polls. >> just out, a report lindsey graham who suspended his presidential campaign is now set to endorse jeb bush. still to come on "morning joe," we've got former secretary of state, hillary clinton, plus the undercard debate. carly fiorina still stands out. she joins us live from new hampshire because, of course, she's already back on the trail. we shall return. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one.

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this is a woman who has evaded prosecution -- [ inaudible ] >> got it going there. joining us now from manchester, new hampshire, republican presidential candidate carly fiorina. a great to have you back on the

show. >> carly, thank you so much for being on the show. you went ahead. why did you do it? secondly, do you think it serves a purpose that you needed to have served going in to the first contest? >> well, i'll never miss an opportunity to talk to millions of americans, and it's also true that yesterday just as we were getting ready to go into that debate, yet another poll came out saying i was sixth nationally. i'll paint you a picture. wow know, in iowa where i was earlier this week, i hope it's warmed up just a little, but in iowa, we have community captains, we have a robust ground game in all the early states, we have leadership teams in 25 states. we'll be on the ballot in 50 states. something that a bunch of the guys on the main stage cannot say. in place like. >> announcer: fifth tied with governors who have spent tens of millions of dollars on television, i haven't spent a dime yet.

i started out 17 out of 16. i'm sixth. not a vote has been cast and i feel really good that we're going to succeed. the more people hear me, the more people are going to support me. i'm running because i think it's time to take our country back. >> why would you be a better president and the better republican nominee than ted cruz and donald trump? >> you know what i saw last night? i saw a nasty fight between two people who cast themselves out as outsiders but are ultimate insiders. a nas t nasty fight over politi. this is what people are tired of. crony capitalism, there's this insiders game that's played on both sides of the aisle, frankly. and meanwhile our problems

fester. meanwhile we have record numbers of men out of work. meanwhile we have record numbers of women living in poverty and stagnation for years and all the things we hear in election after election after election just doesn't happen. i offer a different kind of leadership to the people. a leader who understands how to solve problems a leader who is unafraid to challenge the status quo and a leader who believes it's time to restore power where it belongs to is citizens of this country and take the country back. >> mike barnicle. >> miss fee iorini, you said la night unlike hillary clinton, i love spending time with my husband. it struck people as a mean spirited comment. what information do you have about the clintons' marriage? >> i've been called all kinds of

things and i'm sure there have been things said about me that's considered mean spirited. look. bill and hillary have used every position they have ever had to use or gain more power, whether it was the oval office or the clinton global initiative which is like this gigantic ponzi scheme to sell, access, and influence. whatever position they have been in together, they have used it to gain power and that's why mrs. clinton is running for office again. the thing is show's not the only political insider who craves power. we have some on the republican side as well. but all of this power grabbing isn't serving the american people. it simply isn't. now is the time go back and solve festering problems. we have to take our country back from the elite, from the establishment, from the political insiders of both partiesable restore power.

>> miss fiorini, let me check in. >> we have a delay. sam stein. go ahead. >> get that hillary clinton craves power. what mike asked you about was a personal critique you gave to their marriage. i wanted to know why would you say, why geechb to the point where you're criticizing her marriage? i don't understand it. >> well, i guess i would say, you know, if my husband had done some of the things that bill clinton had done, i would have left him long ago. >> and why is that a campaign issue? >> oh, i think if you're running for the presidency of the united states, everything's an issue. you know why? because leaders need to be trusted and they cannot be trusted unless they know you. so i've been very open about all kinds of things in my life, the good things and the bad things. the tragedies and the triumphs.

i've been real open about going fired, having cancer, bearing a child through addiction. you see, if you're going to lead, people have to trust you, and in order to trust you, they have to know you. so, yes, i think it's all fair game. >> all right, carly fiorina, we appreciate you being with us. and coming up next, we will have hillary clinton jioin us live. >> we'll be back at java joe's. in my business i cbailing me out my i.all the time... i'm not the i.t. guy. i'm the desktop support tech supervisor. and my customers knowing right when their packages arrive.

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how quickly we forget. >> when we have reports about more talks for a brokered convention. >> i don't see it. i don't see it.

i think they talk because it's exciting. i don't think it's going to happen. i'm going win states they never thought i'd have a chance of winning. i think i have a chance to win new york state as an example. a poll came down, you saw that, one of the best locations in the country is new york state which is almost 50%. can you imagine if we won new york? nobody ever thinks of that. plus we're going win west virginia big, we're going to win virginia, places that nobody else is going to win. we're going to win new jersey and pennsylvania. we're going to win florida and ohio. we're going win places that a lot of people aren't going to win. and the o'thing is and i guess cnbc did this. we're going have the largest turnout in the history of this country, voter turnout in the history of the country and most of those new people who have never voted before are going to be voting for trump because they're tired of being run and led by stupid people. >> that was donald trump with us

last hour on set in des moines in the coffee shop. there have been a couple of things that have been hard to get in, even in a three-hour show. we haven't even talked about the thought of a brokered convention. at some point do they just get behind him, or who else is out there? and secondly we have to talk about bernie sanders. but brokered convention. >> i've got to say right now the possibilities of a brokered convention looks very small. >> what's mind of the party? >> the mind of the party is they've been in a state of denial. you've got one candidate tied in iowa and who's ahead in 49 other states. there was one report that showed cruz ahead. but every other poll has had donald trump everywhere.

to talk about a brokered convention is interesting. they saw that donald trump said he had been viciously attacking him from the right viciously attacking him, suddenly trying to make peace, talking about his native skill. i think they're turning the corner. >> yes, some people are. i'm struck by the degree to which establishment doesn't matter. he's got people across the country and he's got what he needs to get the nomination. >> this is big. this is big. >> what's that? >> joining us on the phone right now -- i will say this has been a long time coming, we're very excited to have presidential candidate hillary clinton on the phone. she's on the campaign trail. i think in south carolina. we'll see her soon. we're so glad to have you on the phone. welcome back to "morning joe." >> thank you, thank you, everybody. glad to be back. >> i don't know. are you? >> yes, she is. >> i think we'll know more in about, you know, five or six

minutes. >> exactly. why don't we start so we can figure it out. so obviously, secretary clinton, you've been here before. you've been in iowa before. it was a tough slogging in 2008. what lessons did you learn from 2008 that are going to help you ate years la eigh eight years later in this battle? >> first, i'm running a different kind of campaign. i have a great people on the ground. there are people on the ground smart and committed, really reaching out to iowan, i think, putting together the kind of organization that is needed in a caucus. i couldn't be prouder of them because of the grassroots organization they're building. and, look, i'm different. you know, i have served as secretary of state. i have a very clear sense

combining the domestic side of my brain with the foreign policy national security side of it. what we need from the next president. and this is -- you know, this is always hard. we've got figure out how to get the economy moving forward, keep our country safe, and continue to have strong leadership in the world. so i think that i have a deeper and in many ways, you know, more clear sense of exactly what's going to be required, and i think the team i've put together is really doing a terrific job. so it's up to the -- it's up to the people of iowa, but i feel good about where we are. >> so i'd to love talk to you about syria and some other foreign policy issues, but first we want to ask you the question we not only ask donald trump but every candidate who comes on the campaign. back when you were working actually in the house back in

the early '70s, from that point forward, average wages for middle-class americans have been dropping steadily. this hasn't been just a republican problem or the past eight years of the barack obama administration. this has been an american problem. the most vexing problem, it seems to us, is, yes, unemployment rates are down. we can celebrate that. how do we get wages up in this country again. what would you get as president to do that? >> well, look, i've made raising wages the centerpiece of my campaign and i've laid out a lot of the proposals that i think would work. and the only slight tweak to your question i would make is that, you know, by the end of the clinton administration under my husband's economic policies, income is rising for everybody. they did go up. not just from the top but the working folks. we listed more people out of

poverty than we have in recent time. we don't have to despair. we've got to roll up our sleeves and get to work. we need more jobs and good jobs. why don't we invest more in infrastructure. the debate that held up the highway bill forever just seems so misplaced. they're jobs that can't be exported. they're jobs done by americans and while we're at it why don't we do what people say we should and have tax credits and incentives for companies who want to have jobs. we can once again be the leader in advanced manufacturing and that tice very neatly in what we have to do to combat climate change which is an economic opportunity for a generation if not more in putting, you know, clean renewable energy to the forefront in making those investments we now have 174,000 people working in solar.

iowa where you work right now already gets a third of its electricity by renewals, primarily from wind. this is not pie in the sky-stuff. let me say we have to alter the mindset about minimum wage because too many people on the republican side running just don't even see the need for it. i don't know who they spend the time talking to because clearly that is something that is just crying out for change. and we've got to do more for the women to make equal pay, which is raise incomes, family incomes. we're a 70% consumption economy. if people feel they don't have the chance or the luxury, really, to start spending again, we're not going to grow the way we need to. and it's imperative that we do more to, you know, get credit flowing again for small business. so i have a very clear view about what needs to happen and what will work.

and, you know, joe, i would love to get us back to not just a bipartisan but a nonpartisan commitment on creating jobs and raising incomes. because if we don't, it's not only our economy that's not going to grow the way we need to but you're going to continue to see fissures in our democracy and system because people are feeling left out and we can't afford that. >> gosh. there's nobody who is more impressed with you than me and joe, new hampshire, back in 2008, which was incredible. we were a lot younger. we had you on the show at 6:00 a.m. and then we interviewed you late at night, 9:30 p.m., app you were still going. everyone thought you were done. everyone thought it was over except you, and you were right. it was the most kind of incredible thing we've ever seen in term of a candidate's ability

to keep going and be acrobatic, if i could. having said that, my relationship following your campaign has been rather complicated. i tell you on the one hand i still don't understand your message. what is it clearly. i'll ask your advisers and supporters, what's your message, and they'll go on and on and on and on, which in some ways is a great tribute to all the work you've done, but it wasn't clear. having said that, i said i would vote for you if you won. let me ask you this. what clearly is the message of your campaign and is it authentic unlike the way vice president biden alluded to the other day? >> i have to build on the progress. i have a lot of respect for my democratic opponents, but i believe i know what it takes and i have what it takes to do the job of president and that means every part of it. so as i just said, the economy

needs to be growing not just for people at the top. incomes have to start rising. we have the keep our families safe and our country strong. we have to make sure we also take on the problems keeping families up at night like caring for a loved one with alzheimer's or addiction. being able to stand up to the republicans' universe and take it on and win. so for me this really is pretty straightforward. i don't promise easy answers. i don't promise things that i'm not knowing can be delivered. i'm laying out a set of plans to deal with the economy, national security, a lot of the social issues and family concerns that people talk to me about, and i know i can do all of that, and i intend to deliver for the american people. andty guess at the end of the day for me, you know, people will talk about their extraordinary grandchildren, but i actually have one. we're going to do everything we can to give her opportunities,

but it's not enough. people are forgetting the biggest determine ants of what happens to your children and grandchildren and the country and what opportunities you're providing as far as promise and potential and what kind of world is going to be out there waiting. i feel passionately just because we had it in the past doesn't mean we're going keep it in the future, and you shouldn't have to be the granddaughter of a former president to, you know, have your american dream realized. i think every kid should have a chance to live up to his or her god-given potential and it's rooted in my decades of work. you know, this is not the first time i've ever talked about how we're going to make the country more successful for our kids. i've been doing that since i went to work for the children's defense fund right oust law school and all the way through

my time as senator and secretary of state. i have a real north star i want people to realize and i'm going to work hard on it to achieve it. on health care there was a back-and-forth between you and bernie sanders. your daughter came out. the statements she made weren't completely accurate and then bernie tweeted a picture of the two of you with you thanking him for his a great work on health care. is he not making good plans for your our country when it comes to trying to create a system that works for everybody? and are your attacks unfounded? >> well, no. they're absolutely founded, and what we can discern about what he can do and the picture is from, i think, '93 or '94, when i thanked him for supporting universal health care, a goal i

held, you know, absolutely steadfastly for many years. and i think what the affordable care act has done is put us for the first time on a packet to universal health care. there are improvements to be made to it and what has to be done. with all due respect to bernie sanders who i really do value for his intensity and passion and advocacy, basically what he's doing is saying, hey, we need to start all over again. let's tear it up and replace it. details to be forthcoming. i don't think we should let the republicans repeal it and i'm very happy that the president was in the white house to stop that because their talk of repeal is never followed by any detail about what we do to keep people having access.

and bernie sanders has consistently given the details on what it will be. i think it's fair to look at the nine bills he's introduced while he's been in congress. basically he wants to start all over again wu a whole new plan and another big national divisive debate which i don't agree with, especially with the republicans trying to repeal the gains we've made. so i think we have a legitimate substantive difference and it's in that part of the campaign where we need some spirited debate about our differences because, you know, people are going to start making up their minds. >> secretary clinton, it's willie geist. we appreciate you calling into the show this morning. >> how are you doing, willie? >> i'm doing well, thank you. mika touched on it a little while ago. it was said bernie sanders has opinions on it because he's been

talking about is hit whole life. i wonder what your reaction is to vice president biden's comme comments. >> first of all he said e have thoughtful plans but went further and talked about the four years i was secretary of state. put all that aside, he's a friend and i just saw him at a memorial service where we just spoke on behalf of one of our dear departed friends. here's the bottom line. i have been working against inequality since i was right out of law school, and i have worked hard to try to level the odds for people who are often left behind and left out. that's why i've devoted a lot of my time and attention to try to end inequality of opportunity that poor kids faced. while i have worked hard to level the playing field for women who are often treated unequally, why i have stood up

and defended against those who slashed taxes on the wealthy and forced us in an economy that really rewards those at the top while basically penalizing the vast majority of the americans. i could go on and on, willie. i have a long, long record of tackling all kinds of inequality. economic inequality is obviously a driver of so many other forms of inequality. but've if you have just as a high pocket the sis, equal incomes in the world that doesn't exist, you know, what are we going to do about making sure people get good schooling? what are we going to do to make sure women are not discriminated against. you know, the work continues and i think we have to have a very sharp focus, which i really

applaud senator sanders for having, but we need a broader understanding of all of the root causes and contributors to inequality. that's why in the economic plans that i've rolled out, i am going to ask the -- not ask. we're going to try to demand that the wealthy pay more of their fair share to support, you know, all the benefits one gets for being an american, which i want to make sure we protect and push into the future. so i feel very committed, but i also feel very confident that my varied experience has an understanding all the different issues about inequality that we have to address. >> all right. secretary hillary clinton. thank you so much for being with us. >> hillary, iowa says hi. can you say hi? [ cheers and applause ]

>> they'd like you to come back. >> i'll be there monday. i'll be there monday. thanks, guys. >> she'll be here monday, everybody. thanks so much. we hope to see you right here at java joe's. >> hillary clinton, thank you very much. >> thank you so much. >> this sunday hillary clinton, bernie sanders, and martin o'malley are going to square off in another debate live from s charleston, south carolina. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." i just wish one of those people could have been mrs. johnson. [dog bark] trust me, we're dealing with a higher intelligence here. ♪ the all-new audi q7 is here. ♪

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welcome back. time to talk about what we learned today. what did you learn, mike? >> i learned that she thinks hillary is going to win. how is she going to do? >> she's going win. >> very kent. what did you learn, mika? >> i learned that hillary clinton was on and donald trump and chris christie and carly fiorina and where's mitzi. >> good first responders. what did you learn, mike? >> i learned that this campaign is up for grabs right now. these two have trump and cruise going at it. there are guys like christie and others.

we'll see. >> how exciting. >> willie. >> i learned coming to java joe's is like coming home. there's a picture of tim russert. now here we are eight years later. very exciting. java joe's is like coming home. we've been here, again, going all the way back to 2007, 2008. and we will be here again. >> we'll be back in about a week and a half with the iowa caucuses. it's all up for grabs. this is going to be about as exciting as it gets the next week and half. thank you so much. and thank you, guys, so much. i love you. >> more coming up after a quick break. thank you, everybody. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business...

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like having cable instead of directv. hey, jebediah, how's it going? working the land. hoping for a fertile spring. all right. so we have to live with lower customer satisfaction? i'm afraid so. now go churn us some butter, boy, and then make your own clothes. yes, sir. (vo) don't be a settler. get rid of cable and upgrade to directv. call 1-800-directv. right now on msnbc, that showdown in the south. the republican candidates for president go at it in the first debate of the new year. >> you know, i think most people know exactly what new york values are. >> new york is a great place. it's got a great people, loving people. wonderful people. >> governor christie has endorsed many of