it took joel silverman years to become a master dog trainer. but only a few commands to master depositing checks at chase atms. technology designed for you. so you can easily master the way you bank. 2008 all over again. a young handsome charismatic challenger is running in the race. the polling is clear. democrats love bernie sanders and it's resulted in a democratic primary campaign no one could anticipated a few

weeks ago. >> the funny thing after that poll came out about an our later there was a ppp poll where i was leading him by the same margin about 6 points up. i don't pay any attention to this. >> you can't say i don't pay attention to polls right after siting a poll. >> good morning. it is wednesday, january 20th. welcome to morning joe. with us on set we have veteran columnist mike barnical. >> legendary dare. >> communications director for george w. bush nicole wallace. >> and considering everything legendary, need to go before that. >> senior political editor sam stine.

>> so listen. >> no. i can't believe it. actually bernie. like you all were right. >> here's the problem with trump. he has a 47% lead. that's a ceiling. we're going to show a poll who shows. >> that was it for mitt too. >> look, this is donald. >> and bernie needs to drop out too. >> it's good everybody ignored him so much and thought he was a crazy socialist and would go away. it was smart of the clinton campaign. >> with less than two left before the iowa caucuses, a new university poll of democrats nationwide show hillary clinton trailing 32 points. that comes as a new poll wmur

out of new hampshire shows bernie sanders opening up a shocking, commanding, 27-point lead over clinton. he led by 27 points back in december. clinton led by 8 points just in june. sfwh tha >> thank god you controlled that debate thing. >> clinton is viewed favorably by 65%. since last year senator sanders and that favorable rating has grew while secretary clintons has eroded over the same period of time. >> here he is talking about wall street and the war in iraq yesterday. >> i think on the crucial foreign policy issue of our time, it turns out secretary clinton with all her experience

was wrong and i was right. experience is important. dick cheney had a lot of experience. a whole lot of people have experience but do not have the right judgment. >> goldman and sachs is part of the revolving door politics of washington. over the last several decades, goldman and sachs had two secretary's of the treasury, the same financial institution provides huge amounts of money in campaign contributions and in speaking fees to unnamed candidates. >> the clinton campaign responded saying sanders is now taking cues from republicans. in a statement they point out carl rove has attacked clinton for receiving speaking tfees. clinton backers are sending

warning cries about the dangers of nominating a socialist. they say republicans won't touch him because they can't wait to run an add with a hammer and a sickle. >> wait, wait, wait, did clair just suggest bernie sanders is a communist? she came on our show earlier this year and was talking this socialist stuff. did clair just suggest bernie sanders was a communist? >> they would take advantage of the left leaning politics and run adds indicating he has tendencies that sound like a communist. >> we have warnings from democratic women who said people aren't going to like you with

the way you are about hillary which is quiet frankly fair and asking questions and just wanting her to be on the show so she can answer them herself because she's really good at that. this is a price being paid for not taking a very strong candidate seriously and now they're going, it's not going to work. it's like 20 years ago running against a woman and treating her badly. >> the problem is there's desperation here and desperation because one line of attack is you're trying to tie bernie sanders to republicans. which is nonsense. they're suggesting that the ig is working to leak documents the republicans are to help bernie sanders. they're talking and bringing in carl rogue doing the same thing. on the other attack they're going to use the socialist/communist attack against bernie sanders as well. he's a stuj of the right.

he's the one who ran. >> they're trying to marginalize him. he was up so much and now it's tight enough we've seen her go down the list of issues whether it's guns or health care or him being a socialist and now she has clair and others going to her colleagues. >> clair said to me on the show you don't want to run against hillary. i said why because running against someone under fbi investigation, the notion this is some, you republicans are so stupid except when democrats think we're master mining. he's the most authentic person. >> i actually and i don't think you'll mind me saying this. i had a conversation with donald trump a week ago.

he said if you were in my position because he's, donald senses things. like a week ago. he said i'm sensing things are moving here. he said if you were me, would you rather run against bernie. >>. i cut him off. i said i had rather run against bernie. you're who you are because you're running against a bush. the outside radical candidate being able to run against a bush in a primary and clinton in the general election, that's drawing an inside straight. do not sense what 2016 is all

about. >> this is evident blt coming to bite you in the butt. they should have ran a real campaign where she engaged with real human beings and then she would be better off and be out there acrobatic, ready to go and well oiled and in it she's 10 because she's been hiding. it's not hillary clinton. it's the forces around her. the wall street journal editorial board writes taking sanders seriously. it's time to take bernie sanders seriously. the vermont senator is leading in iowa and new hampshire and in sunday's debate he sounded for the first time like a candidate who thinks he can win. he's not the favorite. it's no longer impossible to imagine the 74-year-old socialist as the democratic nominee. he has moved the democratic debate sharply to the left forcing hillary clinton to chase him. many republicans claim to welcome a sanders nomination under the assumption he would be

easy to beat. don't be so sure. we aren't predicting this but in a campaign that's already busted normal american conventions, the possibility of an extreme election outcome is no longer unthinkable. >> so, nicole, i had several very republican people say to me after bernie sanders was on here for 20-30 minutes, basically calling guilty saying i really liked him a lot. >> yeah, and a lot of people like trump. bernie sanders has been my dad's second choice since last summer. a lot of people like trump because he's going to burn down the traditions of establishment. they think bernie's the second best choice. he may not come at it from the same universe idea logically. he has the same distake. >> there's a couple of numbers i want to sprinkle in where

hillary clinton's national poll is sinking. she still leads among african americans, latinos. she's still in a good position but has a threat coming. >> some people need to get out of her way. remember her in new hampshire? she can do this. a lot of forces in her way. >> so we go, jay nixon, the governor of out missouri talking about eight melt down, a complete absolute melt down if bernie sanders won. it's amazing the democratic establishment is now sounding remarkably like the republican establishment talking about donald trump and guess what, nobody on the republican side the listening. >> let's take a look at the new polls showing donald trump with a huge lead. trump had 48% and that's 32 points ahead of ted cruz in second place. that's a win or take all.

>> i'm sorry. willie, the ceiling is not 47% now. it's 48%. >> all the things they ramble on. >> willie, yet, another poll showing marco rubio bleeding support. something has happened in the rubio campaign in the past couple of weeks. we showed the polls yesterday with him down. in his own state down 7 points.

>> it is a small piece of the republican base that's attracted to the establishment lane at all and i think there's some movement within that lane. the problem with that. >> what you're saying is these were all the people that said okay, it's jeb. then it's marco. now it does seem because jeb is moving up in polls as well, you're saying that basically, you're taking their money off rubio. >> it's the same voters. same universe of voters and they're changing their mind between kasich, bush and rubio. when you see rubio's numbers go down, it's in relation of kasich, rubio and bush. cruz and trump are so far ahead. i find theories about the establishment win increasingly implausible. >> what would the odds have been

in vegas if you would said eight months ago, here's the deal, like two weeks before the iowa caucus caucuses, donald trump is going to be getting one out of two republican voters in the state of florida. marco rubio and jeb bush are going to be getting one out of 10 votes. >> or in the state of florida, the city and the united states senate and former governor, don't even come to one-third of donald trump's popularity. on the rubio thing, whatever is left of the republican establishment and whatever is left of that kind of money, you got to wonder if you're sitting there looking at it, marco rubio makes a statement last week, christmas eve he bought a gun to protect his family from isis. >> because that's what i was thinking about on christmas eve. how do i stop my family in miami from being overrun by isis? >> have you read the night before christmas and close the book.

>> you have to say he's not a serious guy. >> i'll be right back. but so i don't know who i'm insulting here. i know alex whose his p.r. guy. i've talked to him. i don't know whose running the campaign. first of all the, he's too young in the way barack obama was too young but he is so preprogrammed. it's like marco is an extraordinary talented guy. everybody that worked with him in florida liked marco rubio.

he's a super star in training. my prediction is if he doesn't work out, he might be the president or governor no 2018. somebody has said we are going to make the best robotic candidate for the republican race. he goes out and does it, everything is so calculated. it is maddening. by the way, i get like rolled by, some apologyist get really mad when, you know, i said he went full on nativist one week after there's an article saying the number one line that nativist say that i don't feel like i belong in my own country anymore. >> you and your family symbolize the american dream. you're giving up on it a little

early. he does it. you can't talk about being in the front of the auditorium. it's one after another. i've got marco is a super star in training. whoever's running his campaign, they keep feeding him stupid lines. >> i think they are playing by what use to be valued by the republican base and the base use to value discipline. george bush busted john mccain. that is no longer valued. >> can you believe marco rubio bought a gun on new year's eve? >> i think a lot of people bought guns. >> i've got no problem with

people buying guns to protect their families. >> donald trump says more stupid things than marco rubio in a month and they're being held at different standards. i'm saying that's the value. people love he's off the cuff and not scripted. i think marco, people use to value this. >> marrow seems so calculated. >> listen, the voters ultimately get it right. they value different things in the cycle. marco didn't make up a universe where running a disciplined campaign is a bad yours truly. >> no. that's not a good cam pane. >> george w. bush ran an incredibly disciplined campaign.

people felt he was shooting off the cuff too. >> i didn't hear that often. >> he did. there's a reason why he won all three debates against allegory. >> no doubt what donald trump is doing is working. rubio is trying to be a messaged disciplined candidate. he has far too many opportunities. go ahead. >> i'm a fan. i agree with his foreign policy. >> i said marco has a great future, i don't know that it's this year. i've been saying that for a year and a half. i don't think it works this year. it's too early. go ahead. watch it. he's going to win the whole thing now. i've completely jinxed myself. >> the palin effect.

>> speaking of. >> let's get to other headlines. we begin with breaking news out of pakistan this morning. >> there has been a deadly attack at a university. a local lawmaker tells nbc news 20 are dead. according to one military official one of the four gunmen were killed during a shoot out. different reports between different taliban factions claiming responsibility. we are also following news that republican presidential candidate ben carson has temporarily suspended his campaign after one of his volunteers died in a car accident. the campaign identified 25-year-old brayden joplin as volunteers. he and two others were injured when a van they were riding in hit a patch of ice and flipped on its side. this morning, we are hearing for the first time from some of the men held in iran. the washington post has

published this lighthearted video of jason with his wife. they are seen laughing as she shows him a video that surfaced early during his prison time poking the idea he could be a spy. ramadi who spoke to reporters for the first time yesterday adds his release came as a surprise. >> i accepted the fact i was going to spend 10 years in prison. this was a surprise and i feel extremely blessed to see my government do so good for me and the other americans. as soon as we got out of iran canadian area row space, we were on a private jet usually the foreign minister of switzerland or the ambassadors use. we thank them for the

hospitality. >> finally, u.s. stock futures are lower. this follows a continued drop in oil prices and losses in asia. still ahead, we have new reporting this morning hillary clinton's e-mail server contained more sensitive information than originally reported. we're going to hear her campaign's response to that. plus michigan's governor under the microscope last night as he dresses an unfolding scandal. the story developing straight ahead. first, here's bill karen's with an approaching winter storm. >> this one will be historic. washington d.c. hasn't seen a 20-inch snow fall since 1922. right now, we're thinking that's a possibility. a 20-inch snow fall that goes from saturday ending on sunday morning and you wonder how long that will take to clean up.

we're still two and a half days away. we're pinpointing philadelphia southward. somewhere in the mountains 2-3 feet of snow. the city somewhere in the one to two foot range. the northern edge is the hardest. how much of the heavy snow makes it north of new york city? some of our computers are saying hardly any. others are saying 4-6 inches. this is saying anywhere from washington d.c. in this 24-36 inch range. two feet of snow from d.c. towards the richmond area right up i-95 towards philadelphia. here's the timing of it. as we watch the storm, this is friday morning and as we go through saturday, that's the peak of the storm. the storm blossoms off the coast and we'll have up to 70 mile per hour winds through the chesapeake, virginia beach.

major beach erosion. we're also going to have a full moon at that time and will have coastal flooding issues. this looks to be the storm of the winter. this could be the storm of your lifetime in a few cases. we'll leave you with a shot of washington d.c. it's going to be an interesting and dangerous weekend ahead. more morning joe when we come back. in new york state, we believe tomorrow starts today. all across the state the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, the lowest taxes in decades, and university partnerships, attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in utica, where a new kind of workforce is being trained. and in albany, the nanotechnology capital of the world.

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michigan's governor is facing growing understands for his resignation after 1,000 were exposed to elevated lead levels in water supply. his state of address rick schneider accepting responsibility and addressing an apology to the city's residents vowing to put things right.

as i say tonight i'm sorry and i'll fix it. no nation should endure this catastrophe. i'm sorry i let you down. you deserve better. you deserve accountability. >> as a step towards greater transparency, schneider promised to release flint related e-mails. hours before he spoke, the epa faulted the state for not responding quickly enough to the water emergency declaring the matter what happened in flint should not have happened. meanwhile. >> wait, wait, wait. so this is the epa. wasn't there an epa regional

director that allow the information be public? >> most of what i know about the story, aye learned from watching racheal madden. michael moore has been talking about it for a long time. this is a case where they banged the drums loud enough and got the attention of a lot of policy makers. >> but the epa themselves stopping suppressing information. >> i'm not certain the wagons here around the republican governor of michigan, sam stine.

>> it's the federal officials too. it's a failure on all levels. everybody should resign if one resigns. >> yeah. there's no doubt about it. they took over the function here because of the financial crisis in march of 2015 there was an adviser panel that basically said it's fine. it meets the environmental standards do you know why the

environmental protection agency suppressed the residence so flint residents wouldn't know the truth. it's a slow moving disaster that felled the citizens. >> do you know why the united states environmental protection agency had studies that showed lead in the water and they suppressed the evidence and said we'll not let the people of flint know. >> i have the answer to your question and it's called demographics. these people have no political

club. they don't contribute to campaigns, they don't know politicians. they live on the edge. if they're working they live paycheck to paycheck. there's enough blame to go along to every level. >> i'm just curious, the united states environmental protection agen agency. >> that i don't know. >> rick schneider is going to release his e-mails today and hopefully, assuming they're not cherry picked, we should know more. >> the detroit free press the going to be on next hour. we'll be hearing more about this. coming up, iowa kwov nor hasn't endorsed anyone in years. why did he go out of his way the say he wants ted cruz defeated out of iowa? >> this is the big news.

>> he's a beloved figure in iowa. he basically said i'm not endorsing. vote for anymore but that guy and cruz can't say, oh, hey, it's because i made the establishment. >> that would been much better than what i saw yesterday. >> so anyway, we have that story plus casey hunt reporting on why bernie sanders is going down against hillary clinton. mike, i'm smiling because of the goldman and sachs. you're actually, please, don't feed the bear. we're staying away from that story. >> grizzly reference, is that what that was? le. seven. i just wish one of those people could have been mrs. johnson. [dog bark] trust me, we're dealing with a higher intelligence here. ♪ the all-new audi q7 is here.

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so this is incredible on the flint story. michigan officials poisoned the water. he talked about february 2015 months before the contamination was exposed the epa water expert identified problems in the drinking water and he confirmed the suspicions in april, summarized it in june and the memo was kept under raps by susan and the analyst was for bidden from making his findings public. >> okay. we'll be continuing our coverage on that story.

they didn't want to panic the people. >> it's a whistle blower who came to the epa and said we have problems. >> we'll have more on this next hour with a reporter from the detroit free press. this is obviously, a huge story. joining us now, the washington anchor for bbc world news america, caddy kay. an internal watchdog says some of clinton's e-mails contained information classified top secret special access program. intelligence official familiar with the matter told nbc news that the special actions program in question was so sense ti that the inspector general and staff had to get clearance to be read in on it before viewing the sworn declaration. >> beyond top secret. that's pretty sensitive. >> in a statement, the campaign said the binding does not change

the fact these e-mails were not classified at the time they were sent or received. the campaign added it's alarming that the intelligence community working with republicans in congress continues to leak materials in order to resurface the same allegations and try to hurt hillary clinton's presidential campaign. the justice department. >> so wait, wait, wait. hold on a second. so the clinton campaign is suggesting, mike, that the inspector general of the sbel agencies is coordinating with the republican party to hurt hillary clinton's campaign? >> with the republican house committee looking at the e-mails. the question about the e-mails has mystified a lot of people inside the politics and beltway. why has it taken so long to get these e-mails out?

it's been quiet sometime now. i don't know that it has a great impact right now on voters. >> although, we've seen untrustworthy numbers. >> i'm sure it flays into it. >> they knew these e-mails were going to come out in chunks throughout the year. every time it resurfaces, it raises the issues of not just trustworthy but is there something about the clinton campaign that believes they're above the law. that's what's damaging to hillary clinton. the sense they're somehow above the regulations and didn't need to do what everybody else would have had to do in their circumstances. we don't know whether these top secret e-mails were coming to her or from her. in the past they were coming to her. even so, it just raises questions about her.

>> now it's the inspector general that doesn't want her to get elected president. bernie sanders hasn't let up since he raised the issue on sunday's debate. that must be getting traction. >> hey, guys. yeah, we were talking earlier about how bernie sanders has started to talk like somebody who might become president and attacking like one too which is something he said he wouldn't do. he's doing this on one of his issues. >> i don't get personal speaking fees from goldman and sachs.

>> it's the sharpest attack yet from a candidate who promised to stay positive. bernie sanders went after front runner hillary clinton in the nbc news debate and clinton hit back. >> senator sanders, you're the only one on this stage that voted to deregulate the financial market in 2000. >> her campaign has tried to call out sanders for going negative but with wall street one of the core issues in the democratic race, sanders has doubled down insisting it's nothing personal. >> it's a fact. anyone disagree with me? she's received $600,000 in one year in speaking fees from goldman and sachs. if it's not true, i'll apologize. it's true. >> it is true. her usual fee $225,000.

more than four times the median american family income. >> sanders got back up recently from joe biden. >> hillary's focus has been other things and that's been bernie's, no one questions bernie's authenticity. >> bernie sanders isn't letting it go. now to use clinton's goldman and sachs ties to raise money. >> i have been working against inequality since i was right out of law school. i've been trying to wrk for the odds for people left behind and

left out. >> they don't sound that different from donald trump's lines about the fact he doesn't need to take money from anybody to run the campaign he has. you're seeing the clintons make the elect blt argument. they have a strong hand based on sander's background but i'm starting to wonder if somebody in the clinton camp shouldn't get on the phone. >> this is a fascinating debate. we heard in that piece hillary clinton say i've been working on income and equality since law school and trying to take a piece of bernie sander's argument. he says you've been doing all

these things with wall street, how can you say you're the person going to take down the banks like i can. >> when you stack this for someone who had a ton of money in the bank already, we didn't need $600,000. it's the fact that bernie sander, i think the most damming thing about the clip of his was the $600,000. he puts a number on it which is out of the realm of possibility for most americans. just beyond what they could ever imagine in terms of income. $600,000. >> we'll leave it right there. i'll just say the only person that can help her now is elizabeth warren and she's going to have to make her her running mate. there's no other way around it. >> still ahead on morning joe.

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there's a lack of seriousness. when he doesn't know what the nuclear triad is, that's for cause of pause. that's not laughable. we have to restore a traditional roll on foreign policy and you can't do this by rambling around s saying putin can take care of

isis. china can take care of north korea. we have to recognize the threat is real. you can't keep us safe by talking trash. >> that was jeb bush criticizing donald trump last night during a speech at counsel on foreign relations. joining us now, the president of the counsel on foreign relati s relations. richard haas. >> what i do on this show. >> so, do you sense a level of frustration in jeb bush his message isn't getting out in the midst of these people. >> you just heard it from the clip, the ladder. he was giving a rounded speech on foreign policy. it was speers talking about latin america, north america, talking about trade and a lot of sub sa tif stuff.

>> you have to feel sorry for jeb bush. you kind of wonder why he hasn't learned this is a campaign where facts doesn't seem to matter much and depth doesn't seem to have much of a roll and that's why he's not doing so well. >> for example, the relationship between higher levels of growth and foreign policy has a virtue of becoming true. it wasn't the biggest political news of the day, obviously. >> sam stine. >> the underpinning of what bush was saying is donald trump doesn't have a logical strain of foreign policy thinking. since he's a front runner, could be his party's nominee, curious, richard, what do you think donald trump's foreign policy

is? >> shockingly enough, when people run for president what they say is designed to get them to that point. he'll have a lot of time if he gets the nomination to round out foreign policy. >> there's voters who want to vote on these things in the interim. if you were talking to voters now, what would you say his foreign policy is? >> it's nationalist in the sense it's critical of immigration and critical of free trade and it's fairly tough quote unquote in the rhetoric. it krachs those two issues. protectionist in the domestic sense and quote unquote foreign policy sense without them going too far because there is lingering reluctance for the united states to repeat what we did in afghanistan and iraq. for all the republicans, that's the needle they're trying to thread. >> so what's the foreign

relation's opinion as far as tom brady goes? is he a baby or not? >> as a new york giant's fan i feel strongly. not only that. >> that's a counsel's position. >> richard, haas, thank you. that is so funny. >> coming up at the top of the hour, bernie sanders widens his lead. it's possible that a sanders win could happen. >> plus why ethinal of all things is turning into a serious wedge issue in 2016 in the primary. ted cruz is learning the hardaway. we'll be right back.

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perhaps the most shocking surprise is the young people. whopping 68% back sanders while 26% support hillary. ever so often an old person trans sends their age and enters the betty white zone. what's that? a place reserved for the elderly who are so cool they make young people believe it will be fun to get older. the biggest mistake hillary could make is trying to enter the betty white zone. when she tries to be cool, it doesn't work. >> hillary just enters the white

zone which is very different. >> become back to morning joe. it's wednesday, january 20th. exactly one year away from bernie sanders inauguration my conservative friends. with us in the conversation we have political analyst, university of michigan school democratic congressman harold ford junior. also, nbc news moderator and host of mtp daily, chuck to tdd. also, political analyst robert costa and sam stine. let's throw the scripts away. >> really? i didn't think you wanted me to talk because you were all scared o of me. >> we have two missiles we're trying to keep away. >> we like reagan's star wars plan. >> i just read we're not talking. >> oh no, we can.

>> let's talk about polls. chuck, specifically, let's go to this new hampshire poll. >> it doesn't matter. i wish we had an eye shot right now. >> i saw those numbers. >> sanders 60, hillary 33. >> it was one of those that came over in the middle of 5:05 yesterday. we're in the middle of the coverage and we came over here like this is the big eger story. >> this is a bigger story. if you're a bernie sanders supporter, i understand if you're throwing stuff at your tv going how come, what does it take for you guys to cover your

side of the race because look at what he's doing. i don't believe 30. if she's down 27 points then there's a bigger problem here. >> you can chalk up losing new hampshire if you lose by five or 10 points. 20 or 30 points. >> those numbers could end up in new hampshire. my understanding is the clinton people now are abandoning new hampshire and they're going to pour their resources, a majority into iowa. >> in some ways it's smart. put it all in iowa because you can't lose anything in iowa.

>> here's senator nick talking about this. take a look. >> i think bernie's going to have his troops show up there and hillary is going to have his chance beating her. >> what do you think that means? it will probably come back as a reminder of what happened eight years ago. >> a supporter. give her a pause. >> what exactly happened? what do you think the impact of the a tant rancic hit the iceberg did for the captain? >> this isn't the titanic hitting the iceberg, chuck. this is like a slow, i just, i don't understand the democratic national committee. the whole debate thing. they rigged it from the debates and didn't care about getting in

on the conversation and really talking to people and really engaging and he went out and talked to everybody day after day after day after day. if he wasn't on stage in front of thousands of people he was working the crowd for hours talking about a message he's been talking about for decades. >> too many democrats con forted themselves. he's bernie sanders and he's tapped into something a little bit different. >> so harold, let's take up dick's point. the clinton campaign feels good about iowa and new hampshire. they feel good about the states that came after new hampshire. if you look at the poll that came out yesterday, she's still up by 50 points among african americans and latinos. why is this different than 2008. why is bernie sanders not barack obama if you believe that's true? >> he's not barack obama for a lot of reasons.

his politics are different. >> there's a lot of similarities. >> the threat is exactly the same. i agree with chuck. she's got to move everything to iowa. without an iowa win it's difficult to construct with the neighboring state. two of the elect blt argument. bernie sanders ran a campaign where he was true and genuine of himself. he believed we should tax rich people more. he believes this stuff. i don't agree with him on this stuff. mrs. clinton believes a number of things in how to grow the economy and wages. she's got to begin to articulate that in a very odd way. i still think there's time for

her to old on to the lead in iowa. have you ever seen a poll, someone's whose as prohibited as much of a front runner she is to have a 30 point deficit in a state where her husband did well and she won eight years ago. she has to find that set of economic issues and kwin to hammer away at that and distinguish and differentiate herself against bernie sanders on economic issues. >> how with the record she has? >> here's the problem. we had a casey hunt piece 30 minutes ago a lot of them, wall street interest, that's more than most make in five or six years. >>. >> everybody knows that, chuck.

it's not like she was a great speaker. >>. >> that's what, that is the -- >> what he said. you buy access. >> you're buying friendship. i did have issues with the particular in two states. john kerry won the iowa caucuses by making appeals to gun owners. veteran gun owners who were democrats. the gun issue, yes, it is becoming more red and blue but it is still more urban rural than red and blue.

>> there's such a clunkyness to this. you know, sam stine, regarding the clinton campaign, his campaign apparatus, you look at hillary's campaign, she went down and did civil rights speech in alabama mlk day and there was an observer that said 75% of her speech was on guns because that was her message of the day. she was talking about guns and ochbly, it's a huge problem not only in the black community but all communities. it just seemed he said club can i clung can i out out of place. now the message is the

republicans are working with bernie sanders to get him ele elected. the ig, the entail community is leaking and all this other. it just, they seemed to be like hanging by numbers and the numbers paint like 1988. >> you heard this e-mail and it kind of deflated the entire talking point. that said, we lost a little bit over what they were talking about in terms of poll numbers that worked in her favor.

>> how does he take those wins and make them into something for the other 48 states? >> you dig down and find something, what i saw was an 18 point reversal since, i mean, you add what bernie has gained what hillary has lost. she's minus 18 basically to bernie in that time. as we know, it's never static. i go back to 2008 and i said it yesterday. mika interviewing michelle obama in iowa and her frustration that the minority community wasn't with him. after he won iowa, they kachlt

came. if trump wins iowa, the race is over. >> if he wins iowa and new hampshire the race, i think you can accept. >> he'll become a wild fire. >> he'll get a new look by voters that haven't been paying attention. i think the difference is and the reason why sanders isn't obama in this way but the democrats who basically are sounding the alarm this morning in the new york times saying my god, we can't run with bernie sanders. they're not going to wake up after iowa and new hampshire and say oh, i guess we'll go sanders now. no, they're going to call up joe biden, michael bloomberg.

that's how this race changes. the only way this would work is if both parties went to extremes. >> if it's trump verses bernie. >> that's a real serious possibility. >> he may get a waging democratic, that's what will be weird. the establishments. >> stgs still tuning how they've underestimated. anyhow. a new poll shows donald trump has a giant lead in the republican primary. trump is at 48% in florida. >> florida. >> 32 points ahead of ted cruz in the win or take all contest

for 99 delegates. cruz is at 16%. >> we just want to keep those numbers up. >> just combine the two florida guys. >> combined. >> it's horrifying. >> the thing is the odds. let's keep the numbers up. they're so staggering. >> we're looking at the numbers and trump, again, here's a guy who a lot of people are saying had a ceiling of 10, 15, 20 and one of the most important states and the nation to win the republican contest, donald trump is getting one out of every two

votes. we're reaching new territory here, aren't we, bob. >> i think it's been building for quiet sometime, joe. trump has been running a national campaign while many of his rivals have been bogged down in one of the early states. trump has been competing there as well. we've been watching six or seven months now trump on immigration and trade going to the dkey issues and republican voters have been paying attention to the presence in the media. >> i think most don't believe donald trump is a true conservative. how does he win that fight for the ride against ted cruz? >> we're watching the party. this counter establishment of talk radio personalities of high profile activist, they are now the power center within the g.o.p. and there's a real

competition between cruz and trump the get those voters. with the palin endorsement, he's edging into cruz's territory perhaps at the right time. >> stunning news out of iowa. >> iowa governor, a republican in the longest serving governor in american history shocked many yesterday when he said that he wants to see ted cruz defeated. this despite cruz hovering at the top of the state's polls for almost two months alongside donald trump who stands to benefit from the governor's statement. let's bring in nbc news correspondent live from manchester, new hampshire. how damaging is this for ted cruz? >> reporter: it could hurt him with the tie a farmers. ethinal a major issue in that

state. very surprising to see him come out say something so strong. he's stayed out of the caucuses in order to let the people of iowa decide. here's what he had to say. take a look at him and senator cruz's response yesterday. >> ted cruz is ahead right now. what we're doing is trying to educate the people of iowa. he's the biggest opponent of renewable fuels and heavily financed by oil. i think it would be a big mistake for iowa to support him. the only poll that counts is the one they take on caucus night. >> it is no surprise that the establishment is this full panic mode. the washington cartel lives on making deals. it lives on picking winners and losers and supporting corporate welfare and we'll see the empire strikes back. the establishment will strike

back because they don't want an end to the kroenism and the gravy train from washington. >> cruz was asked if he would include iowa farmers in the category there. he didn't respond to the question. you're seeing how the senator is trying to frame this. the establishment guy coming out saying they don't like ted cruz and trying to mobilize the supporters. ted cruz, he's not an establishment. the governor doesn't like him. that may not be effected for some. looking at what this might do for the segment of iowa. it's still an anti endorsement. he's not endorsing ted cruz. >> it is anybody. it's abc. anybody but cruz. thank you.

stay with us. >> chuck stay with us. >> i just want to say, he's the one guy, the one governor, one establishment guy in a state like this that ted cruz's arguments don't work against. you can't paint him as darth vader in iowa. >> i think cruz's push back would have worked. it's hey, people are ganging up on me and it would highlight he's willing to do something unpopular with the establishment. this on top of palin, it was two parts of the party coming out against him. then it becomes maybe there's something about cruz. that's what makes yesterday so bad for him. >> that whole argument he's an establishment guy, he doesn't

tie trump. he's more anti establishment than anyone in the race there. until he wins the nomination, exactly. on the other front, we have the wall street journal, mika has been saying this for months and like she said early on obama could win back in 2007 when we didn't take her seriously. the wall street journal now saying taking sanders seriously. and bernie sanders is, mika. >> if he's thinking as the wall street journal, if he's thinking about the wall street journal and the financial structure of america, sanders is making a push that will push the democratic party to a different

place. >> i've got to say in 2016 bernie sanders is a bigger problem for some republicans. >> he would be a harder match up for. >> trump verses clinton, i think he has a better shot of winning the 25-year washington of a bush and clinton than say a guy like sanders where you just don't know. they oddly enough draw from the same support base from the democrats. >> they certainly have economic similariti similarities. i think if you look at foreign policy and how you grow the economy, there's a lot of differences between trump and sanders. >> clinton's got to do a better

job. >> bill and hillary clinton supported it. >> it's so good there's going to be so many more debates so they can really go after each other. >> still ahead on morning joe. you know what, how many times -- >> where was dean in 04 against kerry in iowa? >> he was still ahead. >> all right. so that actually ties into the key. sam stine talking to candidates who campaigns for higher office. what they can tell us about this year's presidential race. >> plus the governor of michigan apologizes for the lead contamination in the water. we'll speak with reporter from the detroit free press who has been on the story from the beginning. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. control...

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it's called candidate professional that explores the process from the candidates that didn't win the races. the first few episodes asked politicians such as howard dean, michelle bachman what it's like to lose a nomination. >> i learned a lot of girl tricks during this thing. >> what's the trick you retain? >> no, no, no. that's real money. >> give us a small one. >> you're not getting it out of me. >> come on. >> that's one thing for this upcoming 2016 race we have hillary clinton running.

it may seem sexist but i have great empathy for what mrs. clinton is going through. the hill she has to climb on, appearance, is just a different hill she has to climb. >> to pull back and become the establishment figure was hard to do. i had to see some incredibly unpleasant lessons. you have to deal with a reality and i was going to have to teach them that wasn't part of the deal. >> did you know people like you

didn't win the deal? >> that's why i had to make the turn and i couldn't do it. >> wow, that's really interesting. >> both of those are fascinating, sam. howard dean is first of all, mika, again, what you've been saying for years, you said it about hillary clinton no 2008, it's harder for a woman than a man. >> up earlier, stay out later. all the cosmetic stuff. i'm sorry, it's work. >> and judged by much harsher standards. there's nobody much more fascinating to talk about and open up and talk about the pain of losing more than howard dean. >> michelle, you're right, mika. she would wake up at 4:30 in the morning and some days making outfit changes taking about on hour. men don't have anything in terms of that. as far howard dean, you're absolutely right. the intra speks is, i was

impressed by it, the fact i was so self-aware. >> to be able to know that that is your problem and to be unable to do anything about it is so profound and you know, i think there's lessons to be learned to this day when you talk about bernie sanders or donald trump. >> back to hillary clinton and the cosmetics of it all, it's so frustrating. it's got to be so frustrating when you're out there working and trying so hard to get a message across and the headline is cleavage or the headline is some stupid cosmetic thing. it happens with men but with women literally every day, you have to think about what do i need to avoid today and you have to really work hard to make that happen before you think about what you're going to say. it's incredible. >> sam, this is awesome.

i've never been jealous of an idea as much as i was jealous of your idea last month. >> thanks, man. >> you can listen to the podcast on sound cloud.com or by downloading it on itunes. >> let many ask you quickly, iowa and new hampshire, we show the florida poll where trump is at 50% almost. iowa and new hampshire, what's it looking like right now? especially iowa. is it breaking against cruz? >> it's more of a draw right now in iowa. cruz is going to be rallying. the race in iowa is narrating. iowa, most think trump wouldn't play there too much.

he's trying to raise expectations. >> thank you very much. chuck todd thank you as well. coming up, the supreme court agrees to take up another key part of the obama legacy. his health care law survived. what about it's exec tef action on immigration? we'll be right back. (splashing/destruction) (splashing/destruction) (burke) and we covered it, october twenty-seventh, 2014. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ the possibility of a flare swas almost always on my mind. thinking about what to avoid, where to go... and how to deal with my uc. to me, that was normal. until i talked to my doctor.

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so obviously, other news out of iowa yesterday. sarah palin endorsed donald truch. we were looking this morning and that's cat nap for the media.

we looked at the other news story, the clinton melt down and the new hampshire poll bigger news. terry coming out, the longest serving governor in america and iowa saying don't vote for ted cruz and you know, all the other things going on. but obviously, the impact of palin and trump is really focussed on one thing and one thing only. that is stopping ted cruz in iowa. >> i think if there's any advantage of bringing sarah palin back into the conversation and putting her back on the stage against is the tina faye act. number two, if you're trying to figure out why donald trump did this, there's moments on stage he did that as well. >> he looked uncomfortable. >> it's to plot out the sun for a few days. donald trump has sarah pay lin

and it's got media attention and those are precious media cycles. >> yeah, listen. the new york times today called her endorsement in iowa and marry the influence is what he has among evangelicals as golden as the faucets in trump's property. >> do you think it is? >> listen, this is not my expertise. evangelical vote in iowa i take ralph reed's word for. trump has done three shrewd things that aren't trump-like. he has read some scripted notes about energy issues in iowa. he has stood there, he lost control. >> it's the first time he lost control.

>> they went through it and he knew what she was going to say. >> it doesn't always go like that, mika. rogue isn't just a message for her. it's how she rolls. i'm sure part of the agreement was she got to go up there. she was settling scores from 08. >> i guess that's the most surprising thing, harold, is that all the people would have been there for trump anyway. the thing is, they were there for trump. sarah pay lin got to bask in trump's glow yesterday and there will not be that many cameras around sarah palin again. i guess that's what was so confusing to me. if you're donald trump, you've got all the biggest crowds, that is like being the beetles in 1965 and saying hey, hermits, hermits, we would like to open up for you. >> for the first time, i've

never seen him seed the floor. he seeded all the options and lost control. she went off on a tangent. >> i don't know this terrain and this demographic. if she's this strong, perhaps she helps him. the last thing is helping him understand the language of the evangelicals. i heard him quote the bible and called second corinthians two. >> up next, the governor of michigan apologizes for lead tainted water as the national guard is called in. now there's questions for investigations. more on that straight ahead. on,d on,d we came up with a plan to help reduce my risk of progression. and everywhere i look... i'm reminded to stick to my plan. including preservision areds 2. my doctor said preservision areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula that the national eye institute recommends to help reduce the risk of progression

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prevented. to you, the people of flint, i say tonight i am sorry and i will fix it. no system of this great state should enter this kind of catastrophe. government failed you. great state and leaders by br k breaking the trust you place in us. i'm sorry most of all i let you down. you deserve better. you deserve accountability. >> that was michigan's republican governor rick schneider addressing the flint water crisis during his state of the state address yesterday. joining us now from detroit, member of the editorial board of the detroit free press, nancy caffron. thank you for being on the show. where does this begin? talk to us a little bit on the federal level what the governor was talking about there. >> in 2013, the city of flint under the control of a state

appointed emergency manager joined a water authority which is under construction this plan was signed off on, the water treatment plan was signed off of by the state and agency. details started to come out that there was awareness there was problems happening months and months before anyone in the public knew about it. >> so can you clear up one question? we know the governor's, part of the governor's roll in this. ron has been talking about as i'm sure you guys have as well been talking about the epa doing a study and the epa's regional midwest director su pppressing that study.

what was behind that decision? do you know? >> the administrator said there was conflicting action. in june, an epa employee wrote a lengthy detail about the problems they were seeing. problems with the michigan department of environmental qualities, water sample collection. problems with the water treatment that was happening in flint and this was suppressed written back in june and linked to some media in july. >> so it was suppressed and the justification was because of federal e approximatpa said the release the findings because of a state regulatory agency. >> the region administrator said she was seeking legal upon on how to perceive because of the

tensi tensi tension. >> i don't get it. >> this is the same governor that stepped into destroit and appointed an emergency manager because the city faced a dyer situation about how they managed economics and finances. if this time line is correct, in april 2013, the chain isn't where they get their water from. in may of 14 complaints start coming in and now we're late jon 2016. i like governor schneider. i supported his efforts and to blame this on epa near thousands of residents, many of them hardworking middle class. >> i'm not blaming the epa. >> i'm saying they did. the governor has a responsibility in that state. >> this is like mike huckabee saying that state law trumps federal law. it doesn't. you went to law school. >> i agree with that, joe but he

should have stepped up. >> the mayor's responsible too. the environmental protection agency is responsible too. >> the governor of that state has the responsibility to step up more. >> so does everybody. >> it's pretty clear there were a lot of folks who should have stepped up here. >> has anyone been fire? >> nancy. >> go ahead. >> the head of the state department of the environmental equality has resigned. the press secretary who was a public base of the crisis has resigned. some people inside the drinking water program has been reassigned. i think we're going to see more departures. >> let me ask you a question here, nancy. given multilevel failures, federal, state and local, many people to blame here for taking their eye off the ball.

let's talk about class distinctions. do you think, does the editorial page of detroit free press think if this occurred in michigan, led poisoning of children over nearly two years now, that it would have continued? >> of course not. here's the other thing. people who live there wouldn't have these problems. these are wealthy communities. where when problems start to emerge they can call state legislators and command respect and attention. these things don't happen in affluent communities because these things don't happen to affluent people. the response would have been different. there's so much disparity and investment in infrastructure in this country based on where people live and how wellny the community is and we've shortchanged the infrastructure

for decades and now dealing with consequenc consequences. it wouldn't have been a problem if the water had been treated properly. >> willie, the parallels to katrina and the aging infrastructure in katrina and how residents in new orleans were ignored when i was saying at the time if this had happened in the subur in the suburbs of dallas it would have been took care of. >> two weeks the headline was heck of a job, governor. >> nancy, we're talking about whose to blame and what's to happen. what kind of water are citizens of flint drinking right now? is the water they're drinking now safe? a year ago we knew the water there was in violation of the safe drinking water act. that's on the record a full year ago that the water was bad. what about the water since then? what about the water today?

>> so the state is advising don't drink the water in flint right now. back in october they switched back to detroit water which is good build up the chemical coating inside the pipes that stops lead from getting into the water. as of now the water is not safe to drink. our reporters who are going around talking to people in flint have found that there are people who are still unaware that they're not supposed to be drinking the water. the state's efforts to communicate this to people in flint have not been adequate. they started doing last week what they should have been doing months ago in terms of going door to door to inform people about the water. think about how much water you use every day to drink, cook, make formula for your infant if you have one. think about how much water you would require to get through a day and having to have it all be bottled. even with filters, some folks in flint have said to me they'll never feel safe drinking tap water ever again.

that's a horrible thing to think about in america, the richest country in the world. >> nancy kaffer of the "detroit free press", thank you. >> thank you for your attention to the story. in michigan, a reported 86 public schools in detroit will be closed today as teachers stage a sick-out to protest deteriorating classroom conditions. the move comes in protest calling attention to the city's school building conditions as well as teachers, frozen wages and overcrowded classrooms. last night the governor called for transformational change for the school district as the school district faces running out of money by april. >> this is a city -- we've been going there for some time -- >> doesn't even have lights. >> they can't afford streetlights in 50% of the city. >> the president is going to detroit to talk about the revival of the american automobile industry, which is the one bright note out of detroit.

>> yeah, but so much still needs to be done. this stick-out is timed to the visit of the president coming to town. >> also justin upton of the tigers they just signed. we'll be right back. parking is hard to find. seems like everyone drives. and those who do should switch to geico because you could save hundreds on car insurance. ah, perfect. valet parking. evening, sir. hello! here's the keys. and, uh, go easy on my ride, mate. hm, wouldn't mind some of that beef wellington... to see how much you could save on car insurance, go to geico.com. ah! (car alarm sounds) it's ok! in my business i cbailing me out my i.all the time... i'm not the i.t. guy.

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okay. >> still ahead this morning, two incredible new polls out. one shows bernie sanders with a 27 point lead over hillary clinton in new hampshire. another gives donald trump a 32%

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for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis and a $200 savings card that's right. it's 2008 all over again. a young, handsome, charismatic challenger entered the race and is losing by 40 points to wall dorf from the muppets. democrats love bernie sanders. it's resulted in a primary campaign no one could have

anticipated a few weeks ago. if you think hillary is worried about the polls, you are wrong. >> after the poll came out. an hour later there was a ppp poll where i was leading him by the same margin, about six points up. i don't pay any attention to this. >> you can't say "i don't pay attention to polls" right after citing a poll. >> good morning! it is wednesday, january 20th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set we have veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle. >> veteran. >> veteran. >> legendary. >> hold on, hold on. one, two, three, legendary! >> exactly. >> communications director for president george w. bush nicolle wallace. >> considering everything legendary needs to go before that. >> senior political editor and white house correspondent for "the huffington post," sam

stein. cute little boy. >> thank you. >> so listen -- >> no! >> i can't believe it. >> got to get out. trump. >> no, actually. like you all were right. >> here is the problem with trump. trump has a 47% problem. >> he does. >> he is just like mitt. he is a 47% candidate. we're going to show, because that's the ceiling. we'll show a poll that shows he is the 47%. >> that was it for mitt. >> bernie needs to drop out too. >> it's good that everybody ignored him so much and thought that he was just this crazy socialist that would go away. it was really smart of the clinton campaign, actually, and -- >> all right. with less than two weeks remaining before -- >> -- control the election by making less debates? good on you. you screwed yourself. >> bernie sanders now trailing hillary clinton.

comes as a new poll out of new hampshire shows bernie sanders opening up a shocking, commanding 27 point lead over clinton. he led by ten points in this poll back in december. clinton led by eight points just in june. >> thank god you controlled that debate thing. because that really helped out. >> the vermont senator is viewed favorably by 91% of new hampshire democrat polled. clinton is viewed favorably by 65%. since last year senator sanders net favorable rating in new hampshire steadily improved while secretary clinton's has eroded over the same period of time. >> it all comes as senator sanders continues to criticize clinton's record out on the trail. here he is talking about wall street and the war in uriraq yesterday. >> on the crucial foreign policy issue of our time it turns out

secretary clinton with all her experience was wrong and i was right. experience is important. dick cheney had a lot of experience. a whole lot of people have experience but do not necessarily have the right judgment. >> goldman sachs is part of the revolving-door politics of washington. over the last several decades goldman sachs, a corrupt, major financial institutions had two secretary of state and secretary of the treasury. the same financial institution provides huge amounts of money in campaign contributions and in speaking fees to unnamed candidates. >> the clinton campaign responded saying sanders has now taken cues from republicans. in a statement they point out that karl rove has also attacked clinton for receiving speaking fees from goldman sachs. the "new york times" reports that clinton backers are increasingly sending warning cries about the dangers of

nominating a socialist. senator claire mccaskill tells the paper republicans won't touch him because they can't wait to run an ad with a hammer and a sickle. >> wow! wait. did she suggest bernie sanders was a communist? hold on. she came on our show earlier this year and was talking this socialist stuff. did claire mccaskill just suggest that bernie sanders was a communist? >> this is desperation. >> a hammer and a sickle? >> here is the thing. >> no. hold on. hold on. did a democrat just suggest that another democrat, mike barnicle, was a communist? >> no. i think what she is suggesting is that the republicans will take full advantage of bernie's clearly left-leaning politics and run ads indicating that he has tendencies that sounds like a communist. >> you know, we had warnings from democratic women who said, you know, people aren't going to like you with the way you are

about hillary, which is quite frankly fair and asking questions and just wanting her to be on the show so that she can answer them herself, because she is really good at that. this is a price being paid for not taking a very strong candidate seriously. and now they're going nas -- it's not going to work. it's like 20 years ago running against a women and treating her badly. >> the problem is there is desperation here. there is desperation because one line of attack is you're trying to tie bernie sanders to republicans which is nonsense. they're suggesting that the i.g. of the intel committee is working to leak documents, the republicans are, to help bernie sanders. they're talking -- they're bringing in karl rove doing the same thing. and then, on the other tack, they're going to use this socialist/communist attack against bernie sanders as well. so they're saying he is a stooge of the right and he is a stooge of -- who was the guy who always ran -- gus hall?

>> a communist. >> they're trying to marginalize him. for months she could pat him on the head and say my good friend bernie sanders because she was up so much in every single poll going down. as it's tightening up, she's gone down the list of issues, whether guns or health care or him being a socialist. >> wall street. >> now she has claire mccaskill and other people going after her colleague in the senate, by the way. >> she said to me on the show, you just don't want to run against hillary. i said why? because running against someone under fbi investigation for possibly -- i think we learned that week there is a lot of email in question. republicans are so stupid except when democrats think we're master minding the outcome of a democratic primary. bernie sanders is the most authentic person in the field, i believe. >> i don't think he'll mind me saying this. i had a conversation with donald trump a week ago.

he said, if you were in my position, because he -- donald senses things. a week ago he was like, i am sensing things are moving here. he said, if you were me, would you rather run against bernie sanders -- and i cut him off. i'd rather run against hillary clinton. i said, you are who you are right now politically because you are running against a bush. you could run against 25 years of the entrenched political class. you want to run against a clinton. you do not want to run against bernie sanders. if you are -- i mean, you, as the outside, radical candidate, being able to run against a bush in the primary and a clinton in the general election, that's drawing an inside straight. the "wall street journal" this morning is basically saying the same thing, mika. people thinking that bernie sanders is the easier target right now do not sense what 2016

is all about. >> this is called inevitability biting you in the butt. the dnc did not control the debates and she would be better off because she would be out there, acrobatic, ready to go, well oiled and in it. instead she is tin because she has been hiding. it's not hillary clinton. it's the forces around her. the "wall street journal" editorial board writes, taking sanders seriously. it's time to take bernie sanders seriously. the vermont senator is leading in iowa and new hampshire. and in sunday's debate he sounded for the first time like a candidate who thinks he can win. he still isn't the favorite against clinton, the clinton machine, but it's no longer impossible to imagine the 74-year-old socialist as the democratic nominee. mr. sanders has already moved the democratic debate sharply to the left, forcing hillary clinton to chase him. many republicans claim to welcome a sanders nomination on the assumption he would be easy to beat, but don't be so sure.

at least not this year. we aren't predicting this, but in a campaign that has already busted normal american political conventions, the possibility of an extreme election outcome is no longer unthinkable. >> so, nicolle, i had several very republican people say to me after bernie sanders was on here for 20, 30 minutes, basically calling in guilty saying, i really liked him a lot. >> a lot of people like trump, bernie sanders has been my dad's second choice since last summer. a lot of people that like trump because he's going to burn down sort of the traditions of establishment. >> wall street. >> think bernie is the second best choice. he may not come at it from the same universe idealogically but he has the same distain fdain f status quo. >> there are a couple numbers i

want to sprinkle in from the monmouth poll. she still leads by 50 points among minority voters. african-american, latinos. up 20 among women and 30 among moderates. she is still in a good position. >> there is a lot she can do. some people need to get out of her way. remember her in new hampshire years ago? she can do this. got a lot of forces in her way. >> so we go also, jay nixon, governor out of missouri, was talking about a melt-down. a complete and absolute melt-down if bernie sanders, all the way down the bell, if bernie sanders won, it's amazing, the democratic establishment is now sounding remarkably like the republican establishment talking about donald trump. guess what, nobody on the republican side, willie, is listening. >> looking at the new poll showing donald trump with a huge lead in florida's march 15th republican primary. trump at 48%. that is 32 points ahead of ted cruz. >> i thought you said it was a 47%. >> i'm sorry.

i'm sorry. willie, the ceiling is not 47% now. it's 48%. >> the whole mitt thing. >> by the way, willie, all the things that mika was ranting on about the democratic establishment, i can now rant on about the republican establishment. >> i am frustrated. >> -- been saying over the past six months, donald trump's ceiling, 10, 15, never get above 40. he's almost at 50% in what tim russert would call the most important state. >> by the way, that's what ted cruz climbing six points in the poll with trump is just up more. put the poll back up. what's even more remarkable perhaps is that you have the sitting senator in the state of florida at 11%, trailing by 37 points and the former governor of the state at 10%. >> willie, yet another poll showing marco rubio bleeding support. something has happened in the rubio campaign over the past couple of weeks. we showed the polls yesterday with him down, in his own state, down 7%. >> what's going on there?

>> there hasn't been some sea change event in the last two weeks. >> i think the establishment folks are redistributing. you see the numbers in new hampshire show kasich eating away. a small republican base that's attracted to the establishment lane at all. >> these are people who said, it's jeb. when it wasn't jeb, it's marco. now it seems because jeb is moving up in polls as well, in other polls we showed yesterday, you're saying basically they're taking the money off rubio and looking for another -- >> it's the same universe of voters and they're changing their minds between kasich, christie, bush and rubio. when rubio's numbers go down, it's in relation to the others. cruz and trump are so far out ahead now i find the theories about an establishment win -- >> it's nonsense. >> -- increasingly implausible.

>> what would the odds have been in vegas if you had said eight months ago, here is the deal, like two weeks before the iowa caucuses, donald trump will be getting one out of two republican voters in the state of florida. marco rubio and jeb bush will be getting one out of ten votes. >> or in the state of florida, as willie just indicated, the city, united states senator and former governor don't come to one-third of donald trump's popularity in that state. on the rubio think. whatever is left of the republican establishment and whatever is left of that kind of money, you have to wonder if you're looking at it, and marco rubio makes a statement last week that on christmas eve he bought a hand gun to protect his family from isis. >> because that's what i was thinking about on christmas eve. still ahead on "morning joe," a failure on all levels from the state to the federal government. governor rick snyder takes responsibility for the water crisis in flint, michigan, as

the who knew what when continues. but first, bill karins with a check on what could be an historic storm. >> for the mid-atlantic region, mika. for travel plans and anyone with activities up and down the east coast. going through thursday, the storm will be forming. could see severe weather south of mississippi, new orleans and baton rouge. the northern edge, enough cold air for a wintery mix. kentucky, west virginia. friday we start to break into the main event. the heavier snows heading into roanoke. down interstate 81. treacherous during the day on friday. through friday afternoon it will reach our nation's capital. richmond will probably start out with snow too. then the storm jumps to the coast friday night to saturday morning. this is when it becomes the nor'easter and will be its strongest. the heavy bands of snow on the back side. roanoke, d.c., the mountains of virginia and west virginia.

wintery mix to i-95. watch philadelphia's forecast carefully. the northern fringes of new england -- a sharp cutoff. this is what the computers are estimating. keep in mind that washington, d.c., in about 130 years of record-keeping only has two snowfalls above 20 inches. 1922 and one in the 1800s. it hasn't happened literally in anyone's lifetimes. the computer model saying 24 inches possible in washington, d.c., with up to three feet in the mountains. northern fringe, sharp cutoff. the heavy snow only making it to new york. the american computer model pin points an historic snowfall. that's where the uncertainty lies. new york city to boston. if you are in the mid-atlantic. you have 48 hours to prepare for the possibility of being snowed in for a couple days starting late friday. more details in the days ahead. new york city, tough forecast. close call. i would prepare for snow especially during saturday. we'll be right back. dear, why don't we switch to directv?

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oh, that's interesting. >> isn't it? >> michigan's governor facing growing demands for his resignation after some 100,000 residents of flint were exposed to elevated lead levels in their water supply. last night his state of the state address, rick snyder accepting responsibility, and issued a sweeping, direct apology to the city's residents. vowing to put things right. >> to begin, i would like to address the people of flint. your families face a crisis, a crisis you did not create and could not have prevented. to you, the people of flint, i say tonight, as i have before, i am sorry and i will fix it. no citizen of this great state

should endure this kind of catastrophe. government failed you. federal, state and local leaders by breaking the trust you placed in us. i'm sorry most of all that i let you down. you deserve better. you deserve accountability. >> as a step toward greater transparency, snyder also promised to release flint-related emails from 2014 and 2015. hours before he spoke the epa faulted the state for not responding quickly enough to the water emergency declaring matter-of-factly, quote, what happened in flint should not have happened. meanwhile -- >> wait, wait, wait. so this is the epa. wasn't there an epa regional director, nicolle bein, that ha information about the lead in the water and actually would not allow that information to be made public? >> i mean, that's my understanding from process

reports. >> ron fournier. >> ron has written -- most of what i have learned about the story i've learned from rachel maddow who has been on it for a long time. this is a case where they banged the drums loud enough and got the attention of a lot of policy makers. >> the epa itself stopping, suppressing information. >> right. >> the question for the epa is, when you got these complaints from the people of flint, when they said over a year ago that our water smells funny and looks funny -- >> tastes bad. >> -- why didn't you address the problem then and there. >> all the focus -- i'm not circling the wagons here around the republican governor of michigan, sam stein, but -- >> good job taking responsibility. >> good job taking responsibility, but obviously there are so many bad actors. it is like katrina. you've got to start with the county commissioners, the mayor. you have to go all the way up,

all the local officials, all the state officials and, yes, the epa really should keep their head down because it's the federal officials too. this is a failure on all levels. everybody should resign if one should resign. >> yeah. there is no doubt about it. there is a systematic failure of government on every level. a point of caution, though, that the state basically took over a lot of the governing functions here because of the financial crises that were happening across flint and detroit and elsewhere. the thing that strikes me the most about this, this wasn't just sort of this quickly emerging crisis. the switch to the water happened in april of 2014. okay? then in march of 2015 there was an advisory panel or something that basically said the water is fine, that it meets the environmental standards, meets the health standards -- >> do you have an answer, sam, on why the epa suppressed the evidence, they had the studies

and refused to release it. do you know why the environmental protection agency suppressed the evidence of lead in the water so flint residents wouldn't know the truth? >> no. and this is one of those big sort of fundamental questions that needs to be answered. that in addition to at what point did the governor's office know about this and know -- and what are his emails going to say about this. as i was saying, this is a year and ten month catastrophe that's unfolded in various steps with advisory panels saying they're going to look into it and a slow-moving disaster that failed, criminally, the health of its citizens. >> do you know why the united states environmental protection agency had studies that showed there was lead in the water and suppressed the evidence and said we will not let the people of flint know? >> i have the answer to your question. it's an age-old answer and it's called demographics. these people have no clout. no political clout. they don't contribute to campaigns, they don't know politicians, they live on the

edge. if they're working, they live paycheck to paycheck. it's an old story in this country. that's why donald trump and bernie sanders are doing as well as they're doing. >> why wouldn't they let the information out? >> there is enough blame to go along. >> that's what i'm saying. >> from the bottom to the top. i'm curious, the united states environmental protection agency. >> that i don't know. >> rick snyder will release the emails today. we should know more. coming up on "morning joe," the worst start for the stock market ever. a $2 trillion loss. cnbc's brian sullivan joins us next. "beth" by kiss ♪ beth, i hear you calling.♪.

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♪ ♪ every weekend on nbc sports i watch on saturday and sunday, watch my team liverpool break my heart. your household very happy right now. >> very happy. >> when they turn on nbc sports they see -- >> city is doing well. arsenal is doing well. i am always torn. my loyalty, when it's a city-arsencity-ars match. >> you have to cheer for your son on arsenal. you just have to. welcome back to "morning joe." now the less important stuff. this is very important. immigration has been at the

heart of the white house race in 2016. now the issues headed for a major legal battle. supreme court yesterday agreed to review president obama's decision to provide deportation relief and work authorization. more than half the states joined in the lawsuit's challenging the executive order. shortly after the mid-term elections the case scheduled to be argued in april, decided by late june, putting it ahead of the summer's national party conventions. i would be surprised if the supreme court actually upheld the president's executive orders there. time for business before the bell with cnbc's brian sullivan. i would be surprised if oil goes above $30 a barrel in our lifetime. what a glutted market. >> today will be a washout. dow futures down 300 points. hong kong lost another 8%. 200 s&p 500 stocks down more than 10% this year. the worst start to the year for the stock market ever.

>> is this still a combination of china and oil? >> china is out there. i argued yesterday that i thought china was pretty much irrelevant. what we sell to china is not that much. this is the oil story. talking about it for a year and a half. the decline of an industry. hundreds of thousands of jobs being wiped out. it's not just the price of oil because, yes, gas is low. there is a bunch of debt that these oil companies took out. that's sitting on bank books. that's spooking everybody, plus countries like russia, saudi arabia and even norway, which is a huge oil producer, are likely having to sell stocks to raise money because they don't have enough money to fund their social obligations. >> unbelievable. it's back to the future. this is a volatile market. i remember in the '70s and '80s in houston you had all these buildings grow up and fields all around it and nothing happening because it was boom and bust. i think i remember in the '80s north sea oil exploration, a big find that drove down prices. everybody got wiped out and

bankrupt. here we have people talking about low oil prices for the next decade. >> a basic supply and demand story, right? the chinese who want less. at the same time you have a massive glut of supply with the iranians now coming on stream. they've ordered an extra 500,000 barrels a day of production. the saudis saying, you think we're going to cut oil production now when the iranians are about to join in with us? forget about it. that volatile mix playing out in the middle east too. every one has oil or gas. >> everybody has got oil. the problem is, when the prices were high, everybody invested. >> right. >> they over capitalized. they now have to pay back the big loans. you don't do it by sitting back and waiting for the market to rebound. you produce more and more. the glut is massive. >> what are the big banks in this country carrying in terms of oil companies?

>> we don't know. there are small to mid-sized banks, good question in the midwest. a lot of oil debt out there. they're in big trouble. it's not the housing crisis in 2008, but it is a crisis in many ways. and there is a good chance, not a great chance but a good chance that whoever is the next president might inherit a recession. >> all right. full of good news here. >> biggest question. >> i'm still shaking from "the revenant." >> city or arsenal? >> tottenham. >> white heart lane guy. >> the stock market is chelsea. high expectations, complete failure. >> terrible performance. >> it might be arsenal's year. it might be. >> watford, maybaby. nearly every school in detroit closed today. we'll talk about race has impacted these stories with the chair of african-american studies department at princeton.

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talk to your doctor and visit humira.com this is humira at work 35 past the hour. joining us now, president and founder of sojourners, jim wallace, the author of the new book "america's original sin" the bridge to a new america. also back with us is the chair of the department of african-american studies at princeton university, eddie glaude, jr. his back is "democracy and black. how race still enslaves the american soul." >> jim, all eyes on michigan this morning. flint, michigan and also in detroit. 88 out of 100 schools in detroit shut down because of conditions there. how does race play into that story? >> it's my home town, detroit. the book says race is in the air. it's in the air we breathe, in the water we drink in flint.

and so america's original sin was slavery, but a slavery that denied the humanity. these slaves, the people we stole the land and lives from, are less than human. that's really the sin. as you've said before, that continues, that lingers. so in the decisions -- >> so answer this question. a lot of people say, well immigrants have come in 350 years ago. why does that original sin still infect race relations today in a way that it doesn't for newer immigrants to this country? >> those 8,000 kids in flint that have been drinking lead in their water, the 8,000 black kids. and i don't think, if there are 8,000 white kids, this would have happened. >> i agree with you. >> so immigration -- a broken immigration system. that's why, when it's all in the air, that's why the comments that fuel racial fear and racial

hatred are so damaging, poisonous to the environment, to the political landscape. that's the problem. so i think, underneath this is the fact that we're moving to a whole new demographic in this nation by mid-century we're no longer a white majority nation and we're a majority of minorities and how to navigate what i call the bridge to a new america. that's underneath all of these political issues, underneath that is how do we get this bridge to a new america going. a new generation wants to do that. >> so, eddie, my question is why is it that the issue of race still impacts black americans disproportionately? a lot of people have emigrated from, let's say, after the vietnam war. a lot of people immigrated here. in my home town, i graduated in '81. five out of the top eight valedictorians were from vietnam, kids who had not spoken the language here. why is what happened 350 years

ago, why does it continue through 2016? that's the question. how do we break it? >> it's the central question because it's the central contradiction of the nation. right. when you think about it, right? you think about slavery. you think about the civil war. you think about the fact that, even after -- even after the civil rights movement we still don't have fundamental integration in this country. >> why is that? >> because there is a -- i say in my book, right, there is a fundamental belief that white people matter more than others. there is a value gap. >> how does economics play into this? >> it plays into it centrally. jim talks about in his book too. >> economics. how much is race, how much is economics? we've been saying all morning, if this had happened in a rich, affluent suburb of detroit -- >> it wouldn't have happened. >> ghettos are not natural. ghettos are the result of policy. what we're seeing here is a dual

residential. a dual housing and labor market that are the result of racism. jim in his book looks at the fact that we have to look those experiences square in the face. >> dr. king, who we're remembering this week, famously said 11:00 sunday morning is the most segregated hour of the week. 9:00 monday morning. 6:00 dinnertime when we have dinner with our families. so we've got racial geography that has to be dealt with. that's why we don't listen to each other's stories. >> jim, you touched on this. spell it out a little bit more about what's happening in the impan a campaign and the tone of this campaign and it specifically being about mexican immigrants and muslims. how does that have a knock-on impact on race more broadly in the african-american community. >> we have a cultural problem because of this racial

geography. then a political problem in terms of 250 years of slavery. a hundred years of legal discrimination and segregation. 50 years of civil rights as joe was saying and seven years of a black president and we're still dealing with this. so, in ferguson, one of the young men said to me. i still feel like 3/5 of a person. >> hmm! >> a young kid in ferguson who remembers the 3/5 compromise that, no, the slaves are not human. we're going to treat them differently. we're treating people as sub human. that's the sin. you said, joe, a criminal justice system that treats my white boys differently than the black boys of people like eddie here. that's what we have to deal with. the economy is the same way. >> well, actually, that's what i thought was sort of this huge, full-circle statement that bernie sanders said at the debate. starting with speech things from goldman sachs, moving to banks getting fined billions for breaking the law, and then we

have kids getting sent to jail for having marijuana in their pocket and telling you, it's not my kids shall it's kiin the inn are african-american whose lives are derailed by these events. >> no one on prospect street, on princeton going to jail as opposed to in trenton. >> maybe in rhode island. >> incarceration, the drug war is disproportionately on young african-american kids. >> eddie, are we making progress? seems to me the one thing that congress has been able to agree on is criminal justice reform. do you see any hopes? >> well, i have to be hopeful. my faith is in us. otherwise i would be drinking too much jamerson, right? it seems that we have to understand that we are making progress.

i am at princeton. my dad couldn't go to princeton. to say that there is no progress would be silly, right? what we do know is that certain people in this country are valued more than others. to the extent that is true, we will continue to see these outcomes. i think what jim calls for in his new book, he resists this notion of what i like to think of the idolatry of white christianity. the idolatry of white christianity. he wants to insist that we value all human beings. and in that sense we're writing the same exact thing. >> okay. we've got to go to break. but you've just -- >> and hope is what brings us together. >> you've added hope, but you also -- i now have got to read this book today to see what the idolatry of white christianity is. that is a provoking way to end the segment. >> what a tease. >> the book is "america's original sin." jim, thank you. >> eddie glaude jr., thank you as well. his new book "democracy in

black." >> eddie said they paid for his cab fare in princeton. >> they did? really? >> msnbc usually only pays for half your cab fare. >> phil made eddie pay. pete rose finally enters the baseball hall of fame. we'll tell you which one, ahead. >> they've got one for gambling? ahead. in my business i cbailing me out my i.all the time... i'm not the i.t. guy. i'm the desktop support tech supervisor.

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news this morning from major league baseball where pete rose is headed to one hall of fame. while rose might never make it to cooperstown, the cincinnati reds announced yesterday they will induct the hit king into their team hall of fame. >> i haven't given up on cooperstown. i'm not the type that's going to give up on anything. but this is fine. this is -- i'm happy. you know. this is -- and i'm not going to sit here and say it's the second-best thing because it's not. it's not. maybe it would be if i wasn't from cincinnati, because i'm from cincinnati. this is the first big thing. >> rose was permanently banned from baseball in 1989. and last month commissioner rob manfred announced he would not overturn the ban. >> i always said the same thing about pete rose. the hall of fame is not for angels, not for saints. and i would -- i mean, from babe

ruth to mickey mantle, if those guys had been alive today, i'm sure we would find things that would get them out of the hall. am i missing something here? >> no. >> all i know is pete rose -- i'm going to say this. i was a braves fan. they were both in the n.l. west. i hated pete rose and i hated the cincinnati reds, and i was thrilled when he didn't reach. i was listening on the radio that night. i jumped up and down. i couldn't stand the guy. yeah. couldn't stand the guy. looking back, he was just the best hitter. the guy was insane. ted williams and then pete rose. >> pete rose belongs on the hall of fame and it ought to be on his plaque. put it on his plaque what happened to pete rose and what he did to himself. put it on the plaque. but he belongs. >> other than ted williams have you ever seen a better natural hitter in baseball? >> wade boggs was pretty good. but no. no. ted williams -- i was a little

kid then, hard to believe, but he was the best hitter i have ever seen. >> but rose, second. he needs to be in the hall. to an issue president obama spoke about during his final state of the union address. >> we've got to reduce the influence of money in our politics so that a handful of families or hidden interests can't bankroll our elections. [ applause ] >> and if our existing approach to campaign finance reform can't pass muster in the courts, we need to work together to find a real solution. because it's a problem. and most of you don't like raising money. i know. i've done it. >> president obama isn't alone in that fight, thanks to a group called -- of so-called reformers, emphasis on the "former." more than 100 retired members of congress, governors and cabinet secretaries from both parties are joining forces to reduce the

influence of money in politics. here with us now, former democratic congressman tim romer of indiana. senior strategic adviser to the non-profit group issue one and a member of the reformer congress. good to have you on the show. >> thanks, mika. great to see you again. joe, great to see you. we got some things done together in congress. always good to be on the show. >> we did. certainly did. so, tim, talk about the influence of money in politics and, as -- as it's looking today with people like bernie sanders and donald trump doing pretty well without getting money from the richest donors. >> so, joe, i think you and mika have been talking about this for weeks. i think one of the reasons that bernie and donald trump are doing so well, they've not only tapped into this theme that the economic system is rigged but

that the political system is rigged, that we have a crisis, we have a cross-roads that we face with the dominance of money in our politics. that donors have more influence than voters. and i think both of those candidates on the right and the left are tapping into this anger. more and more, joe, you're seeing that the republicans and the democrats are recruiting candidates not based on their ideas and what they'll do to help america but on whether they're millionaires and whether they know millionaires to raise money for their campaigns. so, as the president said in his state of the union, we've got a direct threat to our democracy here with the legislators spending 50% of their time raising money and not doing their job as governing the country. the great thing about our reformers caucus, we have democrats and republicans working together and we have solutions. we have hope for the future to solve this.

>> tim, it's catty. everyone knows this is getting bad. we're looking at the prospect of a $4 billion election cycle. it's increasing every election cycle. do you really think there is a chance the cycle will be broken and we'll have less money being spent in american politics? >> good to see you. yes, i do. eight months ago, no, i didn't think there was much hope. but today we have a presidential election. people in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, across the country, 80% of democrats and republicans are sick and tired of money dominating the system. so they can do something about this. secondly, i think we see across the country referendums popping up at the state level wherevjef said our laboratories of democracy have to work. maine passed a referendum, seattle, san francisco, ohio did. the president of the united states that just gave, i

thought, a good speech on this, about how to clean up our politics at the state of the union, you could sign an executive order today -- >> why not? >> -- to say federal contractors have to disclose giving. >> why not. >> if the people of flint, michigan, had a pac, would their water be filled with lead today? >> mike, i -- you know, i can't believe this. not only are these families and kids getting the shaft on their water, on their education, on their health care. it's because so many legislators spend 40%, 50%, 60% of their time talking to donors and the 1% and not working on our infrastructure beings not worki, not working on basic rights of water and food security and not working on making sure, as we have the strongest country in the world. we have everything going for us in this country, yet our

political system is broken because of big money. we can fix it, and we need to fix it now. we've got solutions like disclosure, transparency, overturning citizens united. its six-year anniversary is tomorrow. let's have the supreme court revisit that. let's have our presidential candidates, all of them, hillary, bernie, trump, rubio, everybody should be talking about the danger to our democracy of money swamping our system and making people believe it's like a slot machine. you've got to pay to play in our political system. >> that's exactly the case. former congressman tim romer, thank you so much. up next, what if anything did we learn today.

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british law makers met yesterday to decide whether or not to ban donald trump from entering the u. k. it's crazy because if there is anyone who should get along with donald trump it's british law makers. >> you are the weakest link. good-bye. >> you have the charisma of a damp rag. >> you don't need it to be christmas to know when you're sitting next to a turkey. >> yeah! i know what i learned today. i learned that donald trump got his rhetorical skills from parliament. >> still the best reality tv

show. >> what have you learned, mike? >> if the citizens of flint, michigan, had a pac, a political action committee, with money in it, they wouldn't be drinking lead water. >> and the kids would be in school in detroit. mika. >> it's way too early. what time is it? >> it's "morning joe." but stick around. "msnbc live" coming up next. right now on msnbc, the power of palin. donald trump hoping the backing of sarah palin is the boost he needs to pull away from rival ted cruz in iowa. >> you ready for a commander in chief who will let our warriors do their job and go kick isis' ass? ready for someone who will secure our borders to secure our jobs and to secure our homes, ready to make america great again. are you ready to stump for trump? i am here to support the next president of the united