protesting at that fbi conference, and he said, this is the way they need to do things, in order to get people to understand, it's time that the protesters come out and continue to ask that their grievances be met. kate? >> morgan radford reporting from oregon, thank you. that's going to do it for this hour. i'm kate snow. "mtp daily" starts right now. if it's wednesday, we now have a countdown clock. 120 hours to the iowa caucuses. and it looks as though every poll there might actually be right on the mark. if turnout is high, the outsiders have the inside track. i'll explain. this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. good evening and welcome to "mtp daily." so much to get to in the show tonight. i have former defense secretary chuck hagel.

he'll be here. rachel maddow will preview tonight's msnbc town hall in flint, michigan, and in just a minute, we're going to talk to two republican leaders who have something in common. they know precisely who they do not want to be their party's presidential nominee, so they're traipsing around the state, talking about candidates they won't vote for. two different guests with two different candidates that they're rooting against. but first, let me get to tonight's take. and that's how iowa's story will be told. it will be told by turnout. and yes, we've heard turnout, turnout, turnout. but in iowa, it really matters. i'll make the case tonight that every single poll number we've had out of iowa over the last two weeks is correct. what we don't know, though, is the turnout assumptions behind their models, and that's why you get the differentiation. for instance, let me take you to new numbers we've got out tonight. fresh ones from monmouth, university. in the republican side, they have donald trump out in front. seven points s ahead of ted cru marco rubio sitting at 13. but whether we actually see numbers like this on monday will

depend on one big important thing, and that is turnout. yes, it's cliche, but it matters. monmouth themselves admits that they're estimating a turnout on the republican side of 170,000. well, guess what? the record for republican turnout was just in 2012, and that was when we saw more than 121,000 republicans show up to caucus on a monday night. so monmouth is working off an expectation that accounts for a 40% jump in participation. is that a wild assumption? well, maybe not. iowans could show up in droves. in fact, an auditor for the predominantly conservative warren county told "the new york times" recently that she was astonished at how many people have been calling, asking for their caucus location. but, by the way, we haven't seen a jump in registered voter changes just yet, although you can register on caucus night yourself. now, the monmouth pollsters themselves note the crucial role the turnout reveals. according to their numbers, increasing the turnout

projection to 200,000 on the republican side would widen trump's lead. shrink the turnout projection to 130,000 voters, essentially the 2012 turnout, and cruz and trump are tied at 26%. and 130,000 is still a big number. it would still break the 2012 record. but according to monmouth, it would not provide trump with that overwhelming push to the top. trump needs new caucusgoers more than any other candidate running to pull out the win. and by the way, the same rules apply to the democratic race as well. in fact, the latest poll of the democratic race in iowa was via quinnipiac, and they happened to show sanders ahead of clinton by four points, 45-49 and o'malley at 4. sanders confirms as much as this morning at his meeting in the white house for president obama when he said the key to iowa for him was this. >> we're feeling really good about where we are. and if there is a large voter turnout, i'm not saying we could do what barack obama did in 2008. i wish we could, but i don't

think we can. but if there is a large turnout, i think we win. if not, i think we're going to be struggling. >> so let me reinterpret what he's saying. and the quinnipiac poll proved it out. hillary clinton in that quinnipiac poll leads sanders by double digits, among those who have caucused before on the democratic side. bernie sanders leads by nearly 50 points over hillary clinton, among those that have never caucused before. how many of them will show up? that's what sanders is saying? and what he's also admitting is, if it's a normal turnout, clinton wins and sanders will come up short. turnout always matters, but turnout is weighing even heavier in iowa and on the minds of both parties. and trump's move to skip the last debate in iowa is a gamble. trump has yet again taken over a new cycle with this controversial move. >> with me, they're dealing with somebody that's a little bit different. they can't toy with me like they toy with everybody else. so, let them have their debate and let's see how they do with the ratings, and i told them, i

said, give money to the wounded warriors, give money to the veterans. they're going to make a fortune with the debate. now let's see how many people watch. >> trump says one of the debate moderators, fox news host, megyn kelly, is biased against him. and when his request to have her removed was not met, he decided to move on. fox news responded in a statement saying, they aren't sure, quote, how iowans are going to feel about trump walking away from them at the last minute. and that quote, capitulating to politicians' ultimatums about a debate moderator violates all journalistic standards, as do threats. of course, trump's ability to walk away isn't a power other candidates have. and again, he is dominating the news cycle five days before the caucus. without trump on the stage, candidates may end up turning on ted cruz and he becomes the target of the night. could this be what trump is thinking? rubio, in fact, is already getting a head start. he says in a statement, quote, these kinds of theatrics by ted cruz and donald trump are an entertaining side show, but they have nothing to do with

defeating hillary clinton. we don't have time for these kinds of distractions. this isn't ted cruz's side show, but notice rubio put him in there. so stay tuned. it should be interesting. one thing i'll tell you, though, is while fox news is saying that the candidates can't pick moderators, the candidates themselves have a political party organization that have done just that, picking news organizations and cherry-picking moderators and that has probably empowered these candidates to believe they can do the same themselves. by the way, we're going to have brand-new iowa numbers of our own out tomorrow morning ahead of the debate. also, we'll check in on new hampshire and south carolina in our release tomorrow morning. so donald trump's soft acceptance in the establishment is not universal. freshman senator ben sass of nebraska is in iowa tonight and he's already hit the stump with ted cruz. he'll be joining marco rubio and carly fiorina at events later tonight and senator sasse joins me now. senator, welcome to "meet the press daily." are you wearing the big red?

>> it's the only clothes i own, man. i have work clothes and i have suits and i have this. >> i hear you, i hear you. i have bad memories of nebraska games. >> thanks. >> but senator, you decided to go out on your own and campaign against a candidate and not for one. why not, if you're going to be against trump, why not pick a candidate that you would prefer over him? >> listen, what i'm for is the constitution. and if being for the constitution makes me against mr. trump, that's mr. trump's problem. we are blessed of lots of good candidates on the republican side who believe in the constitution, but we already have one post-constitutional party in america. we don't need a second one. so, i'm here to talk about the constitution and the things i hope voters in iowa will be considering on monday night. >> it's interesting, you're basically pulling a fire alarm. you're that concerned about trump representing the republican party? >> listen, i don't think that people know what mr. trump stands for. he's doing a lot of things very, very well. washington, d.c

washington, d.c., is a terribly broken place. i've never been in politics before. i was a college president until i ran for the u.s. senate last year, and i ran because i'm worried about the future of the country we're leaving to our kids and grandkids. and all across the state win hear people say, washington is leading us the wrong way. somebody needs to pull a fire alarm about that. and mr. trump is doing a nice job of articulating that critique. that's different than knowing what he's for. if you actually look at his record, this is a guy who says, i hate the concept of guns. this is a guy who says he's for single-payer health care in the past. this is a guy who says he's for a $6 trillion tax increase, be the largest tax increase in u.s. history. he doesn't get many hard questions right now. the media failed to vet president obama 2008 and i don't think the people in your job are doing a good job of asking mr. trump real questions. i know there are times, chuck, you have taken him on. but by and large, mr. trump is a guy who is articulate, he's entertaining, he'd be a great guy to have a beer with. but most people who take him on

tv every day, they like him on there for the comedic value. that's different than who's prepared to lead the executive branch in a way that's limited. >> let me ask you this. because you really are considered as somebody one of the rising starts in the conservative movement. but i think this presidential primary has exposed a difference of opinion of what conservatism even means right now. and you have a version that trump has. you have a version that cruz has. and i would argue, you have a separate version that say, a jeb bush and a john kasich had. let me ask you, because a lot of people are looking to you as one of these future leaders of the conservative movement. what is a conservative in your view today? define conservatism in the 21st century be it ben sasse? >> that is a great question. america is the most exceptional nation in the history of the world, because the u.s. constitution is the best political document that's ever been written. because it says something different than almost any people and any government has believed in human history. most governments in the past said might makes right and the

kidnapping as all the power and the people are dependent subjects. the american founders says, no. god gives us rights by nature and government is just our shared project to secure those rights. government is not the author or source of our rights, and you don't make america great again by giving more power to one guy in washington, d.c. you make america great again by recovering a constitutional republic where washington is populated by people who are servant leaders, who want to return power to the people and to the communities. because what's great in america is the rotary club. it's small businesses, it's churches, it's schools, it's fire departments, and it's little leagues across this country. what makes america great is not some guy in washington who says, if i had more power, i could fix it all unilaterally. that's not the american tradition. >> and you believe donald trump is simply not a conservative? >> hey, listen, what donald trump has actually said out there is, when i'm president, i'll be able to do whatever i want. no, that's not the american way. the american tradition is to say, the executive branch is to

faithfully execute the laws, not try to run the country. we don't need anybody to run our country. we need washington to faithfully execute the laws and reaffirm american greatness, which is in the communities of nebraska and iowa. >> all right, ben sasse, a new senator from nebraska, republican, thanks for coming on the show. and i'll see you in iowa. >> thanks, chuck. >> you got it. >> thank you. well, donald trump may not show up on the fox news stage on thursday, but he's received another offer. >> we can do it with no moderators whatsoever. we'll do 90 minutes, lincoln/douglas, mannoo y mano,e can lay out his vision for this country and i can lay out my vision for this country in front of the men and women of iowa. >> there you go. iowa's terry branstad may not think that's such a bad idea. he says the excitement the billionaire has created is undeniable. joining me now is the iowa governor, terry branstad. governor branstad, welcome to "meet the press daily," sir. >> good to be with you, thank

you. >> i do find this fascinating, and i find like it's easier to find republicans to tell you who they're not for. it's harder to find republican leaders right now who say they are for. why did you feel the need to come out against cruz, but stop short of endorsing somebody? >> well, i just gave an honest answer to a very point-blank question. first of all, i'm the governor of iowa. i'm very proud to be a servant leader in this state. and renewable fuels and jobs related to renewable fuels is huge in this state. tens of thousands of jobs, farm income is independent on ethanol and wind and when you have a candidate that's against the wind tax credit, that introduced coal-sponsored legislation to repeal the renewable fuel standard, so we don't have access to the market, i think that the voters of iowa need to know where the candidates stand. i'm proud of the fact that we've got a lot of great candidates. i think we're going to have a record turnout.

i'm very excited about the caucus that's coming up on monday night. but i just think the voters need to be informed who supports the jobs in iowa, who supports farm income, who's going to be the right leader for america. >> what's the message, though, that iowa republicans send to you, frankly, and to other, and to senator grassly, people who have been fighting for this stuff, if they go ahead and say, you know what, our choice is ted cruz. a guy who, yes, as the governor said, is probably for undermining our economy. >> well, and i think that's a reason why it's important for me to spell out how important this is, because you and the other people in the national media will say, people of iowa don't care about their jobs, they don't care about farm income. they don't care about renewable energy. and i can tell you, the people of iowa do care about those things. we're sixth lowest in unemployment. we create -- we've got 43 ethanol plants in this state. we have almost 30% of our

electricity generated by wind today. and renewable energy, iowa leads the nation on it, has created good jobs and we want to keep the momentum. we don't want a leader for our nation that doesn't support this critical area. and it's good for the economy and good for the environment and it's great for iowa. >> look, you've had nice things to say about other candidates, including donald trump. so if donald trump is the republican nominee, you're comfortable with that? >> well, i will support whoever the republican nominee is. >> including ted cruz? >> but he's run a very -- uh, yes. >> okay. >> but i would say, donald trump has run a very unconventional campaign. we've never seen anything quite like this. certainly, i wouldn't advise him not to attend the debate. but, you know, he's his own guy and he's run his own campaign and, i guess we'll see. there's no question that he brings out big crowds and i'm sure we're going to see a record turnout on monday night.

>> and you think that's mostly due to donald trump? >> no, i don't. i think it's got to do with all the candidates. my advice to the candidates is, come to iowa early and often. go to all 99 counties, and you have people, you know, we still have about a dozen candidates. they're working hard and many of them have been to all 99 counties. people like governor huckabee and people like santorum or carly fiorina and senator rubio and governor chris christie and the list goes on and on. but we've got a lot of good candidates and i wish them all the best. i hope that we get a great turnout and we have a lot of enthusiasm going on to getting a new leader for america. we need somebody that's going to restore respect for the country, get the financial house in order, and support renewable energy! >> all right. governor branstad, i'll leave it there. >> thank you. >> my next cycle, we will have one candidate per county in iowa, i think.

that's how many people will end up running for president next time. governor, i'll see you in iowa pretty soon. >> look forward to it. >> thank you. still come, my exclusive sit-down later this hour with former defense secretary, chuck hagel, which, de, from nebraska, i have a little iowa farm gaged don thing going on tonight. rachel maddow is giving flint residents a chance to speak their minds. her goal for the town hall tonight. keep it here.

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well, hillary clinton is calling on bernie sanders to join the proposed democratic debate next week in new hampshire. as we told you, the "new hampshire union leader" is set to host a debate next thursday. we'll be the only democratic debate on the schedule between the iowa caucuses and the new hampshire primary and we're excited to air that debate live prime-time on a thursday night right here on msnbc. so we're excited to hear hillary

clinton is on board. here's what she told msnbc's "hardball" host, chris matthews today. >> chris, what i've said through my campaign is that i would look forward to another debate. i am, you know, anxious, if we can get something set up, to be able to be there and, so, let's try to make it happen. >> would you like the chair of the democratic national committee, debbie wasserman schultz, to approve the msnbc/nbc debate next week? >> i would like the chairman of the party and the campaigns to agree that we can debate in new hampshire next week. that is what i'm hoping will happen. >> you'll be able to see chris' full interview with secretary clinton tonight at 7:00 eastern, right here on "hardball." bernie sanders, by the way, who met with president obama in the oval office today for over an hour, has not yet agreed to the debate. he is the holdout. his campaign manager says his candidate does not want to participate in a debate that's unsanctioned by the democratic

party. sanders spoke exclusively to my colleague, lester holt today about his chances in iowa. we'll have some of it coming up here on "mtp daily" in a little bit. and you can see even more tonight on the "nbc nightly news" and all night tonight on msnbc. got a lot more of "mtp daily" right ahead. right after this short break. in new york state, we believe tomorrow starts today. all across the state the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, the lowest taxes in decades, and university partnerships, attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in utica, where a new kind of workforce is being trained. and in albany, the nanotechnology capital of the world. let us help grow your company's tomorrow, today at business.ny.gov iand quit a lot,t but ended up nowhere. now i use this. the nicoderm cq patch, with unique extended release technology, helps prevent the urge to smoke all day. i want this time to be my last time.

that's why i choose nicoderm cq. people of flint are looking to their state and local leaders who are responsible for the water safety in their community. to step up to the plate and fix the problem. >> that's white house press secretary josh earnest earlier today on the flint water crisis, and we just learned, the two senators from michigan will offer an amendment to a bill on the senate floor tomorrow to address the crisis. michigan's governor, rick snyder, today announced a series of steps the city is taking, include asking for more medical care to help the young folks who are going to have lead in their

bodies perhaps forever. but the only permanent solution is to remove the corroded lead pipes. our own stephanie gosk pressed the governor today on why none of the corroded pipes have yet been removed. >> in terms of short-term, it's a lot of work to take out pipes, to re-do all the infrastructure. that's a whole planning process. in terms of near-term, in terms of coating the pipes, this isn't my opinion. this is an opinion we're getting from experts in this field. there absolutely is a trust issue. >> if you don't replace those pipes, a lot of people tell us, they're simply not going to drink the water. >> as we go through this process, that's the process we need to be talking about. >> that's the point of having third party expertise. >> right now it doesn't include taking pipes out? >> right now, the quick thing is, how do you actually get the pipes so they can be safe to drink based on experts, not political people. >> the mayor of flint told msnbc today that pipe replacement is, quote, the first thing the government needs to address, as hundreds of children are now being screened for lead poisoning. flint's mayor is calling on the

state to do more. joining me now is msnbc's rachel maddow, who has been covering this story of flint for months and is hosting a special town hall in flint tonight. rachel, i know you've got to get back to work for this, but what's your goal tonight? >> i think my goal tonight is to give the people of flint a chance to explain things in their own terms a little bit. we need to hear from them on their own. but honestly, bringing in a national news show here, part of the reason i'm doing it is because i feel like there's a little bit of a national sense that because there's attention to this problem now, that that must peen that it is being addressed. the water infrastructure of flint has been severely hurt by what the state government did here. and stephanie gosk has been absolutely spot-on in that reporting. it's not getting worked on. it's not getting fixed. and the scale of the fix they need here is a project of national proportions. so, i think it deserves a national spotlight and i'm hoping to do that tonight. >> you know, it's been weird, rachel, there's been

rhetorically, a sense of urgency, but that's all. and i mean that on the federal government level, definitely on the state government level, and obviously, city government, i don't know what they have -- they don't control anything anymore, because of the whole issue of the state taking it over, but they're really -- it seems like the feds are missing here, too. >> the feds were definitely missing in some of the lead up to this. and not in the sense that they did it, the state government did this. >> they did this. >> they made a bad policy move. they caused the poisoning of this town. and so they've got a special kind of culpability here. and that's directly on the rick snyder administration. the epa could have done more to blow the whistle, could have done more to push the state harder, once they realized what was going on. that's why we did see one big head roll at the epa regional administrator. but there's a special kind of accountability here that you don't often see in political stories, which is that we know who done it, and there really isn't local culpability here, the people of flint and their

elected officials had literally nothing to do with this, to the extent they were trying to stop it from happening. the snyder administration went over their heads, did it with this emergency manager authority that they have. and so that's why people feel that there's so much urgency, that the snyder administration either needs to fix it or get out of the way. >> right, absolutely. before i let you go, we've heard more from hillary clinton. she's in, there's no equivocation anymore on the debate that you and i will be moderating eight days from tonight. bernie sanders equivocating, i have to say, i'm surprised -- i don't know about you, i might have expected the reverse. >> you know, it is the dynamics in the democratic race are weird and unpredictable this year, which is why it's so much more fun to cover it. i thought the democratic race was going to be a snooze fest. turns out the republicans are too bizarre to understand and the democrats are fun. i don't know where senator sanders will end up on this. from what i know of his long career, i can't imagine where he ends up on this, a week from

today, that he's still saying he won't do it, even though the other candidates want to. i don't think that's sustainable for senator sanders. i think you and i are going to be moderating that debate on thursday. >> i have a feeling. >> i don't think it's just wishful feeling. >> i have a feeling. i don't think -- that's not the vermont bernie sanders. anyway. >> exactly! he's a consistent guy. we know who he is. he's not the guy who says no to debates. you got it, chuck. >> you got it. thank you, rachel. be sure to tune in tonight, a special flint town hall, the right way to use a television program tonight. that's what rachel's doing, shining a spotlight on what's happening in flint. right here on msnbc at nine o'clock p.m. still to come, we'll talk to former pentagon chief, chuck hagel. keep it right here. urgent diarrhea. now there's prescription xifaxan. xifaxan is a new ibs-d treatment that helps relieve your diarrhea and abdominal pain symptoms. and xifaxan works differently. it's a prescription antibiotic that acts mainly in the digestive tract.

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can a a subconscious. mind? a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? up next, defense secretary chuck hagel is here with me in studio. we'll talk to him in just a moment about 2016, the big challenges facing both parties and a little bit on isis and the challenges that faces the next commander in chief. financial su pitch you investment opportunities.

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i think it's the question of who can actually lead the country and equally, who can run the government. government is different, especially the federal government is different in many ways than running a business or anything else. and people who have never run a governmental organization often have no idea how complicated it is and how difficult. for example, if you're a ceo, you don't have 535 members on your board of directors. >> that was robert gates, defense secretary for both president obama and president bush, this sunday on "meet the press," he was talking about the leadership question that voters need to ask themselves before they cast their presidential ballot. now is another former obama secretary of defense and a former senator from nebraska, chuck hagel.

senator, secretary, what is the proper -- do you know what the honorary -- >> chuck ii, maybe. i wouldn't dare say chuck i, not in your presence. >> fair enough. let me ask this question, the question raised by everybody. what should the voters be looking for in the next commander in chief? what do you wish the voters of iowa were looking for in the next commander of chief? forget what they're doing right now, what do you wish? >> i always thought there was three indispensable requisites for higher office. character, courage, and particularly, judgment. experience is important, i agree. i don't minimize it. in the end, it's always about judgment. when you sit in that oval office or any office of responsibility, you have to make some tough calls. tough choices. and you're not going to be right on all of them. but you've got to have the assimilation of enough intellect, facts, experience helps, all the others, to come to a judgment that makes sense. but it has to be fundamentally,

comes from character and courage. those are the three things i think you look for. >> what -- you notably moved -- you were a republican senator, you endorsed candidate barack obama -- >> actually, i didn't -- >> your wife endorsed -- that's right, you sort of stayed neutral. >> i stayed neutral -- >> which in and of itself, some people inferred as a non-endorsement of john mccain. >> let me quickly tell you, and john mccain knows this. i told john why i could not support him and wouldn't support him. and john was a good friend i still respect and have a friendship with. i told him why i couldn't, but i also told him in a one-on-one meeting in my office, i will not hurt you, i will not endorse barack obama, and i stayed true to that. >> are you still -- do you still consider yourself a republican? >> well, what i consider a republican, the party today is a conglomeration, really, of tribes. i'm from the heartland. the sioux nation was made up of many tribes. and i think you've got about five tribes in the republican

party. they're going to have to sort out the broad-based tent. what is the platform, the essence of the republican party? i don't know. but something bob gates just said that's vitally important, is governance. we really haven't governed in this country for a long time. we have a paralyzed government. the congress doesn't govern. our candidates don't talk about governing. >> because it's unpopular. if you talk about it, you don't want to hear -- oh, it's process. don't talk about congress, don't talk about politics. the people don't want to hear that. >> i understand that. but you do have a responsibility when you run for office, first of all, tell the truth. tell people what you think and what you will do, and try to bring people together. not divide people, but governance is a big part of that. institutions are the process. institutions have to work. it's complicated. i know people get bored with nap it's more fun to have fistfights and gong shows to pass off as debates.

but, that's why we're in some trouble in this country today. that's why, when i just got back from davos. the first question i got from everybody, what the hell is happening in your country in the political process and when you have the rest of the world peering in, looking at this modern democracy we like to hold up not only to ourselves, but the rest of the world, that's pretty debilitating. and that's why we have the lack of confidence we do. >> i feel like we're destined for a employerizing president. it doesn't matter who wins the next election. that person is immediately going to start with a disapproval of 50, 49%. and if anything, it will only grow. they probably won't have that honeymoon anymore, because it's going to be -- we're just in this -- what do you think a presidential candidate can do to break it? >> well, first, not continue to segment and divide the american people. that's not the way you campaign. the thing that's struck me about this campaign so far, chuck, and

i've been around for a lot of them and been a candidate and ran campaigns, i don't know everything about business, but every four years, there's a political environment that dominating and dictates and shapes the message. you play to that. your point about how, do you break this? you don't campaign on dividing america. the first campaign i've seen in a long time where candidates are not talking about uniting america. this is how we can work together. this is how we can listen to each other and bring this country together. we'll have differences, but we do have to govern and make things work. we do have to do the things that are important and right for our country. >> there are two candidates that talk the most about that, i think. jeb bush and john kasich. >> i got it. >> two governors, and look where they are. >> i got it. >> they've struggled to break through. the only place they're doing well in new hampshire, that kind of embraces that mind-set. >> well, that's true. and, by the way, i, i am sorry about that. i'm sorry for kasich and i'm

sorry for bush and responsible leaders who have led and are leading, who have something to say about our future. but that doesn't negate responsibilities. even though you've got these wild glancing blow, glib commentaries over here, i'm going to build a wall, i'm going to carpetbomb the middle east and so on, the media has some responsibility here, too, chuck. the media needs to hold them account pbl. i watched the town hall for the democrats a couple of days ago. why don't we have the so-called smart moderators, and i know i'm getting close to -- >> that's all right. i'll take it. we'll take all the -- >> why don't we ask the regular people in the audience to ask the questions that are relevant to them, because that's relevant to this country. why don't you give each candidate 2 to 3 minutes to explain his or her policy on what they would do about syria, about russia, isis, and no interruptions, no excuses, well, he said this. what are you going to do, mr. candidate? i think the media loves the confrontation and the battle. i know it's ratings. i get the reality of it.

but i think the media doesn't get off with some responsibility here. >> fair critique. let me ask you on isis and on syria, presidential candidate calls you up, you say, okay, what should i responsibly be saying about what we can do about isis? is it something you can destroy and degrade? or when you destroy it, something else will rise up? because yesterday, it was al qaeda. today it's isis. why do think, understand you get rid of isis, it will be an al nusra, it will be something else? >> yeah, i think that's the fundamental question. there is no easy, fast, solution or answer. it's a combination of many things. first of all, what are we dealing with here? we're dealing with an ideology, a usurption of an islamic caliphate idea. you're dealing with disaffected, angry people, people who have been at the bottom, who feel they have no voice. technology has changed that, given now a voice, another means to deal with it. so you've got to understand the problem, first.

second, this is going to take what we are doing, and the next president will be dealing with this for certainly four years, in great depth, working with our allies, our friends, our partners. we don't need to agree with russian and iran and china on everything. but let's work on our self-interest. >> but they're partners in your scenario here? you say partners, iran has to be one. >> they have to be partners in this. there is no other way to do it. you want to carpet bomb. you want to continue your proxy war? you want to continue to let everybody fight each other and destroy the middle east? that's what we're doing now. the suffering, the european union is fraying at the edges, because of the refugee problem. this has major consequences, which we're seeing. markets, it will only get worse. so of course you've got to deal, people of common interests understand what those interests are. but they've got to be worked on. and i applaud secretary kerry, what the president is doing, trying to bring some platform of stability through a process. also, the military has to be used, too. the strikes have to be used.

that's part of it. you're not going to bomb these people away. that isn't going to happen. this is an ideology, it's a different dynamic, and they have different means and tools and mediums to work in that we've never, ever seen before. i said a year and a half ago at a press conference, this is a force we've never seen before. and we haven't. and it will get more sophisticated. . and we're going to be dealing with it for a long time. >> chuck hagel, i'm going to leave it there. good to get your perspective. >> thanks, chuck. >> when you pick a candidate, let us know. >> okay. >> or maybe run as an independent with michael bloomberg. >> we've got enough candidates. a still ahead, we answer some of the big questions in today's headlines, including why the bridge between religion and faith may be fueling donald trump's political ascension. the ws are next.

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are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. ask your dermatologist about humira. because with humira clearer skin is possible. coming up, the who, what, where, when, and why of today's headlines. also, what is trump up to? is it the right call? we'll ask our panel in a second. stay with us. soup and sandwich and clean and real,

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you never know until your hat is in the ring. events change everything, especially during elections. wow. so rupert's for michael. the what? it's hillary clinton weighing in on the recent oscars so white campaign about the lack of racial -- of racial diversity among this year's nominees. take a listen. >> i think that it is overdue, but the academy announced that they're going to be making some changes, as they should. just think of the great films that really display not just the diversity of america, but the diversity of the human experience and therefore the academy has to catch up with our reality. >> now to the where. it's washington, d.c., where the district issued more than $1 million worth of parking tickets since a blizzard hit on friday. the local government also has towed 656 cars. boy, that approval rating for the city is only going to go up. now to the when. it's tomorrow and friday. we're taking "mtp daily" on the

road. i'll be hosting the show from des moines, starting tomorrow. we're going to have a special two-hour caucus eve edition of "mtp daily" at 6:00 p.m. eastern on sunday night. there's no football, so you're watching us. now to the why? a new pew poll asked if people view certain presidential candidates as religious. trump came in last, with just 30% saying he's religious. here's why this matters. despite that poll about trump's faith, he does have support of voters who say they, themselves are very religious. remember, trump had the highest amount of support in our recent nbc news survey monkey poll of white evangelical voters. something that helps explain his endorsement yesterday from jerry falwell jr. the panel is here next in the lid, it's nathan and amy. we'll be right back. with creative new business incentives, the lowest taxes in decades, and university partnerships, attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow.

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to space planes, across the universe and beyond. and if you thought that was amazing, you just wait. ♪ time now for the lid. no one wants to capitalize on trump's absence from thursday's republican debate. more than ted cruz. he's selling hats that say make trump debate again. trying to get the hash tack ducking donald to twend on twitter. cruz has offered to debate him one-on-one. hallie jackson covering the cruz campaign. i get what they're doing on one hand. wanting to make donald look weak, look like he's running scared. but it's also an entire day devoted to donald trump, and not

ted cruz. >> but it was going to be that kind of a day any way, chuck. so i think that the campaign sees an opening to try to steal back a little limelight by pushing out ducking donald, the hats that say make trump debate again. you talk about trump's likely absence from the stage tomorrow night, and we've got news here from the last couple of minutes. more than likely he has announced an event at the exact sim time in des moines. drake university, the question for a lot of folks all day had been, well, if trump doesn't show up, where does he go. he doesn't have space booked. it appears that question has been answered. we have the location, timing, it's going to be some sort of an event, special event he says for raising money for veterans. additional details to come, chuck. so now that's the next thing we're waiting to find out. >> well, we know donald trump will be in des moines. that might add to the drama. negotiations could go on. >> he'll be in the city, yeah.

>> maybe he accidentally shows up at the wrong venue. maybe that's what roger is thinking. >> maybe. >> hallie jackson, i'll see you tomorrow in des moines. >> thanks. >> editor and publisher and cook political report. welcome to you. all right, amy. it seems on paper, had this is one of those moments, you think boy, he's risking this, that, he's so close to iowa, and yet i'm like the guy that has gotten his butt handed at the blackjack table. >> i'm not getting against the dealer against him. >> nope. >> that he won't figure out how to turn a lemon into lemonade. >> because everybody time he does something like this, it reenforces his brand, which is i'm not going to take it any more, i'm not going to let you, the party dictate the terms of donald trump. i make my own deals. this has been what the thing that is so attractive about him to so many voters.

at the same time, it is also clear that the heat has been turned up on donald trump. both by cruz, by these outside groups, by the media. and we don't know how he's going to respond to that. he can skip this debate, but the guns are aimed at him and let's see how long he can go ducking all of this. >> nathan, it's interesting. i think that fox was under the, hey, we're the voice of conservative america. there is no way you can refuse fox and alienate all these conservative voters, but they seem to be on his side on this, and not on fox's side. >> well, i think fox has gotten lumped in with the rest of the media that being against the establishment is good, being against the party is good, being against the media, even if it includes fox is appealing. >> to some, the establishment. >> yes. >> this feeling, oh, they seem to like rubio, or they seem to like that they're not big, the cruz campaign doesn't, you know, some cruz supporters say fox isn't good to us.

you hear this. they're too establishment. maybe. >> it started with that initial question, that really kicked offer the debate season. but i think what could matter is the content of the debate. if donald trump isn't there, is it going to be two hours of the other candidates bashing donald trump, or do they just attack each other. he gets a free pass. then he's going to phone in to all the tv stations and get ten minutes of time by himself responding to what was said. >> it's funny you say it that way. i can't image two hours. i can picture the first 10 or 15 minutes everybody gets their licks in. but then they're looking at the other guy they're chasing and it becomes a two-hour ted cruz bash fest. you're probably concerned about if you're ted cruz. >> it does focus for cruz for a certain amount of time. but we have the christie, kasich, rubio, bush, whatever this muddle is. >> the 3rd and 4th place, yes. >> that's where the fight has been concentrated.

the amount of money spent in iowa against rubio is much bigger than anything that's been spent on cruz or trump. >> it's -- then on the democratic side, there is a couple of phenomenon here. i was talking about it yesterday. can you remember an election in your lifetime that's this close without a single negative ad or negative piece of mail on sanders or clinton. they both have claimed they're starting to go negative because they made a veiled reference. it's sort of stunning, especially walking the republican side. >> it's remarkable. a fundamental aspect of winning a campaign, defining yourself and opponent and both are letting the other just sort of be out there, let the media be the critics. dangerous water to be in if you're not trying fro ject an image. >> they're fearful, they're more concerned about that, which actually not dissimilar to why some layoff of trump, and because they're afraid of

alienating his voters, even if they don't mind alienating him. >> i guess, but i think that the clinton campaign was prepared at some point for bernie sanders to come out and do something and she would be then -- have the ability. >> ammunition. >> to go strong. but the second he laid off that first debate on the e-mails, you sort of knew this was not going to be easy for him. he has continued to just, he inches a little closer >> he wants to. it's like. >> he inches and backs off. >> whenever he thinks he can taste victory and does ramp up the attacks. >> kind of an assumption among clinton allies just saying things that bernie sanders was unelectable and that would discred discredit him. his message is clearly resonating. it's his message driving it, and trumping a lot of other things. >> that's interesting you said that. her lack of message, i mean, that to me has been the other

thing. his has been very crisp and clean. we know exactly who he is and what he stands for. if you look at the flight of ads that she she has done, yes, they've all been pretty positive, but they seem to kind of be all over the place. >> there isn't that one thing. i mean, look, it was -- i was surprised they answered the question i asked her. what are you going to spend your political capital on. let's go to this thesis i started the show with, nathan. every iowa poll we're going to see is correct, but it depends on what you think turnout is going to be. it is interesting. they're all showing the same thing. moderate to low turnout, cruz and clinton. high turnout, sanders and trump. pretty simple, isn't it? >> up to, i start from, there is a rule that it's going to be normal turnout until somebody proves differently. obama was able to change the dynamic. i don't think that's the new normal. so i'm still skeptical the team will be able to put together that operation.

turnout is everything. just like with every election. >> it is, but auto in iowa. >> in this case, even more so. >> than any other. can you remake the electorate. always fun. thank you. we'll be back with more tomorrow with "mtp daily." it's not heaven. it's oi way. with all due respect starts right now. i'm mark halperin. >> all respect to other candidates in iowa, today yet again, all about the donald. >> happy, donald trump did what? sports fans, hello again, mark, bloomberg politics, iowa caucus mission