rick tyler. >> thanks for watching. you can listen on 99.1 radio. thanks for watching. "hardball with chris matthews" starts now. last chance debate. let's play hardball. good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. hillary clinton wants another big night with bernie, the former secretary of state said she would be happy to hit the stage with bernie sanders and martin o'malley. she told me earlier today that she hopes the campaigns will agree to sanction the february 4th debate hosted by the new hampshire union leader and msnbc. meanwhile, the contest between clinton and sanders is getting heated. a new quinnipiac poll today

shows sanders leading clinton. sanders was in washington today, where he met with president obama for more than an hour. it came days after the president praised hillary clinton and seemed to dismiss sanders appeal with an interview with politico. bright, shiny object people haven't seen before. that's a disadvantage to clinton. earlier today, i spoke with clinton about bernie sanders attacks, and the historic nature of her ocandidacy. >> closing time and closing arguments in new hampshire coming on quickly. donald trump is not going to debate on fox tomorrow night. will you debate on our debate? will you show up? >> look, chris, what i said to my campaign is that i would look forward to another debate. i am, you know, anxious. if we can get something set up to be able to be there, and so

let's try to make it happen. >> well, someone has to lead from the front. will you be there no matter what? will you show up and wait and see? will you be there waiting for bernie sanders an martin o'malley? would you, in other words, lead the pack in showing up and committing to doing that? >> look, i'm ready for the debate and i hope senator sanders will change his mind and join us. i think the dnc and campaign should be able to work this out. i said for, you know, for a long time that i would be happy to have more debates, and i hope we can get this done. >> well, if he doesn't show up, will you? >> well, let's hope we can get it worked out. i don't want to, you know, jump the gun and create more problems for everybody trying to get this worked out. so we can all come to agreement that the voters of new hampshire and america deserve to see us, you know, debating before the new hampshire primary. >> so you won't be there, just

the last question, you won't be there unless bernie is there? >> well, i'm not committing to that, either, chris. i think we should have another debate. i think people want it. they have called for it. folks have moved forward trying to get it set up. we've got, look, 24 hours in a political is a eternity. we have a little time to try to get everybody on board, which would certainly be my preference. >> you believe candidates should have the courage to face each other before the caucuses, in other words? you think you should be there, and he should be there? >> i do. i think that, you know, i agree, we all agree to go with the process that the dnc had set up, and you know, i've been saying for a while that if they come up with more debates, i'll be there. now we've got a real live possibility. and i personally think it would be great for the, you know, the

primary. we're moving into the caucus, as you know so well on monday, and then had once we come out of there, whatever happens, we should agree to debate in new hampshire. >> in other words, you're sticking to your commitment, i will be there? >> i will, i will debate. now, as i say, i want the -- i want all the campaign, the dnc to agree. that's my preference. that's what we've tried to, you know, do in our side of the ledger here. and i'm pushing people to come to agreement, so we can all get out there and debate before the new hampshire primary. >> well, this getting very sharply worded as we get close to the caucuses. the word in the new york times this morning, madam secretary, is senator sander ss writing an attack ad against you. we don't know whether he's going to use it, but you're in hock to wall street because of the speaking fees you've taken from goldman sachs. how do you respond? how will you respond to an 11th hour attack like that? >> well, first, it's really

disappointing, chris. you know, senator sanders has started to get increasingly personal. it's a low blow. it would be an escalation, breaking of his pledge to not go negative. one of the things that is great about the democratic side is we really have focused on issues, while the republicans have been hurlg insults, and i think the people in iowa want to go to the caucuses, thinking about which one of us as president, and actually make a difference from their lives. and that's the case i've been focused on making. so you know, it would be a sharp departure by senator sanders, and you know, the other part of this is anybody who knows me knows you can't buy me. i hemean honestly, i've been standing, trying to get things done that i think would improve people's lives and i'm not going

to stop and that includes anybody trying to, you know, mess with our financial system. >> when he uses phrases like you can draw your own conclusions as to whether you're in hock to goldman sachs or anyone, is that a low blow, you could draw your own conclusions? >> well, i think he's trying to go to the line without going over it, and you know, clearly some of the journalists covering us are starting to notice and call him out on it. but i feel very, you know, very positive and energized by what i'm seeing happening here in iowa, and i know that i have the best plan to reign in wall street abuses to make sure it doesn't happen again. lots of folks from barney frank to paul krugman have said that's the case, because i don't just go after the big banks. we have the authority to do that under frank, and i've said that i would use that authority if they were posing a systemic risk

to our ee coop me. we have to go after the shadow bank sector. let's not forget country wide, let's also remind people, chris, that clearly, the billionaires as bernie likes to say, the billionaires have chosen sides, they're running ads against me and tried to hood wink democrats into voting against me, because they know exactly what i will do, because they see me in action. so whether it's, you know, carl rowe or the hedge fund guys with the super pacs, or jumping in with the ham handed effort to make it look like he was going against bernie when the real point was to, you know, stir opposition to me. i take that as preservely flattering, and as the single reputation as what senator sander ss trying to imply. >> you've given us a real rogue

gallery here. shouting slogans, i know what you mean, i'm going to build a wall against the rio grande river, i'm going to make the mexicans pay for it. but sanders say free health care, government paid health care for right as a right. he talks about fwrree tuition, free, free. is that what you mean, i had a young guy on from south carolina, who switched from you to senator sanders. i went through this list of free things, and i said where is the money come from? he says well, we put a man on the moon, we can do this. this kind of fantastic, what do you call it, appeal, and then i heard from sanders the other day that they're going to stay left, not make any appeal to the middle. how do you beat somebody who promises to go hard left right to november and offers all this stuff to people who are 20 years old, 22 years old, they don't have to pay taxes, you say look,

you're going to get free, no more tuition bills, no more bills, you're going to have no health care the rest of your life, forget having to buy insurance, it's i pretty good offer. is that what you mean by shouting slogans. >> i was really more referring to the republicans, as you pointed out initially. i have been pointing out the differences in the approach between myself and senator sanders. because i know that it's more important we actually make progress than fall back into good lock. let's take health care as an example. you know, we've been trying as democrats since harry truman to get on the path of union vertical coverage. before that, it was called hillary care, i have the scarce -- scars to prove it. we are now at 90% coverage. we need to improve it, get the costs down and make sure we do go after high prescription drug

costs and some of the other drivers of health care costs, but i think it's a lot smarter to try to go from 90% to 100% than to throw our country into another contentious debate about health care, where is the money going to come from, who is going to be paying it. if you have health care, you like if you're under a private plan, you have to give it up, if you're on medicare, and you work, you have to pay more taxes. all these questions would be thrown back into the public arena and we would have to start all over again from zero to 100%. i just think we want to stay on the path of making progress. now some people, you know, say oh, my gosh, that's so pragmatic, it's not soaring or whatever they say. i'm out there talking to people whose prescription drug costs have gone up from $200 to $14,000. i'm talking to people whose insulin costs have gone up three times. that's not a new drug.

that doesn't have any new research in it. i'm talking to people who are thanking me for the affordable care act, because the lifetime limit, the cap has been lifted. a man in davenport said i'm so gradeful because i have a granddaughter with a genital heart condition. these people can't wait for another debate that promises the sky. we have to deliver on the ground. we have to help people deal with the problems, the issues that challenges they're facing right now. we have to restore faith that our goth can work. that is what i intend to do as president. i'm going to keep fighting for that. i respect the bowl, because senator and i share the same goal. i think my way will get us there faster. the people here in iowa are telling me they are desperately in need of. >> last question, and it's so important, this campaign. i know you think so. it has to do with history.

not the only issue. if you look at the american constitution, and you've studied constitutional law, it wasn't until after the civil war that african-american men were given the right to vote, and women didn't get it nol the first world war. there a long lag there. obama was elected president, you might get elected president. you may well get elected president. do you think young american women, say young women in college, 18 to 22, 23, do they get it? how long this struggle has been and the fact that it's a precarious struggle that could fall back. do they know the rights to equality at workplace, where they do get it, all were fought for? do they get it? i don't know that they do. do you think they get it? >> look, i think a lot of young people and i wouldn't limit it to women. i think young people of every background, every, you know, racial, ethnic religious background, are you know, trying to understand how best they can

participate in our political system, and what the stakes are for them. and of course, you know, if you're -- if you haven't been through a lot of these struggles, it's ease easy to not know about them or they didn't go far enough, or everything is taken care of. so we have the two extremes of the argument. but here is what i'm hearing. at least from the young women who come to see me. they say, hey, okay, you're for equal pay, what are you going to do to make sure i get it. i had a young woman here in iowa say i want to go to law school. how can i be sure if i work hard and do well and get a job, i'm going to get equal pay. i said okay, that's the right question, because we've been fighting for this, we've made progress, but not enough. here is what i think we need to do to get it. or young women who say i can't balance family work. i had a young woman come to smee holding her nine month old baby. she said you know, i can't go back to work until i get my baby stabilized. i need to take family leave.

what are you going to do about it. so i think what is happening is as the campaign goes on, a lot of young people, and let's focus on young women, are moving from the sort of general, either we haven't gone far enough or those fights are over and i don't have to worry about it, to being much more specific, and that is a good development, because at the end of our efforts here in the primary, if i'm so fortunate enough to get the nomination, then i think we fight out an election between a party that believes we've got to continue to address the lacks in our drive for equality, our drive for justice, whether it's racism, sexism, homophobe yeah, you name it, and the other doesn't want to admit they exist. i think we're going to have a positive reaction in the general election between the big deniers

on the republican side and let's make progress, get things done on my side. >> thank you so much. one last, just to clarify what you said about the dedebate. would you like the chairman to approve the msnbc/nbc debate next week? >> i would like the chairman of the party and the campaigns to agree that we can debate in new hampshire next week. that is what i'm hoping will happen. >> okay. thank you so much. it's been an honor to have you on. secretary hillary clinton. thank you for joining us on hardball tonight. >> thanks, chris. good to talk to you again. >> coming up, donald trump is going to skip the republican debate. at war right now with fox. news anchor and its pr team. well, trump out foxed fox. well, his gambit pay off? i'll ask ann col tter straight ahead. what will the snubbing fox have

on the race out in iowa. he's neck in neck with cruz right now. cruz says if trump wins, he'll be unstoppable. heroin addiction on the rise across the country. major issue in the campaign trail up in new hampshire. we're going to talk to two senators trying to break the chain of addiction in america. finally, let me finish tonight with a role model for donald trump. teddy roosevelt, this is hardball, a place for politics. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line.

what's in your wallet? and clean and real and nowhere to be,o, and warmth and looking good, and sandwich and soup and inside jokes, and dan is back! good, clean food pairs well with anything. the clean pairings menu. 500 calories or less. at panera. food as it should be. bernie sanders met with president obama at the white house. lester holt met up with him for an exclusive interview and asked him about the tight race and what success would look like. >> what is your bar for success in iowa? >> winning. >> number one?

>> yeah, i mean, i think that we have worked really hard. we started off in iowa, later than secretary clinton did. in the last number of months, we have put together an incredible volunteer effort. we have 15,000 volunteers. let me tell, be very clear about this, lester. on caucus night in iowa, you will be able to tell very early, i think, who wins and who loses. if there is a large voter turn out, we're going to win. >> that was a beautiful lafayette park across from the white house. hardball returns after this. when heartburn hits

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welcome back to hardball. republican front-runner stunned the political world by announcing he will not show up at the debate hosted by fox news. fox respond by issuing a statement saying quote, we learned from a back channel that the ayatollah and putin both intend to treat donald trump

unfairly when they meet with him if he becomes president. he has his own secret plan to replace the cabinet with his twitter followers to see if he should go to the meetings. after he put out the tweet, he said he wasn't going to be toyed with. >> with me, they're dealing with somebody that's a little different. they can't toy with me like they toy with everybody else. so let them have their debate. and let's see how they do with the ratings. and i told them, i said give money to the wounded warriors, give money to the veterans, they're going to make a fortune with the debate. let's see how many people watch. when they sent out the wise guy press releases, along with roger ails, i said bye-bye, okay. >> bye-bye. any way, the back and forth continued with megan kelly when she realktded to trump's decision. >> trump is not used to not controlling things, as the chief executive of a large

organization. but the truth is, he doesn't get to control the media. >> and of course, trump's main rival in iowa, ted cruz pounced on the drama between trump and fox. >> apparently megan kelly is really, really scary. and you know, donald is a fragile soul. you know, if she asks him mean questions, i mean, his hair might stand on end. if he thinks megan kelly is so scary, what exactly does he think he would do with vladimir putin. i promise you, putin is a lot scarier than megan kelly and i would like him to explain to the people of iowa how is prepared to be commander of chief if he's

terrified by a television host. >> late today, trump announced he's holding a counter event when the debate starts at 9 eastern. will i out fox fox. dana mill bangs, an opinion writer with the "washington post." you know, ann, this is an amazing night. i think it's a battle of what kind of personality or like least. i mean, trump certainly is big time. he is bombastic, over the top. ego. and then i see this guy cruz trying to match him. i don't think he's in the same league myself. your thoughts about the whole thing? i want you on for the theater, because you know theater. what's going to happen tomorrow night. will he or won't he show up? donald trump? i hope he doesn't. he has established himself as the really alpha dog as if he hasn't already. look, i like a lot of things about ted cruz, but one of his achille's heels is, he does not

have a sense of humor. i think the joke about donald trump being afraid of megan kelly, you know, it just doesn't work. nobody thinks donald trump is afraid of anything. and i mean, as you just, and thank you for telling the story properly, it wasn't over megan kelly. it was over that smart-alecky press release. i would ask you to imagine, what if nbc released a press release before a debate. it really is -- it really is kind of shocking. i think trump is shaking up the way people look at fox news, as maybe not always our network. >> why do you think roger ales who had to sign off on any pr that went off, it was sarcastic, it made fun of trump. it made fun of him, the front running candidate. it made him into a little chicken. why would -- this last question, because i want to ask dana, why would roger start a fight that could cost him, god, 15, 20

million people tomorrow watching. >> that's right. that's why trump has established himself as the alpha dog. i suppose because fox news, i mean, i don't know, i don't know if he even saw it, but mondcan arrogant i'll also say that it's not only smart-alecky, it's insulting to voters. trump didn't like a question going back to his days as a reality tv host, when meanwhile, and i actually liked that question by the way, i have no complaint with megan kelly. it's my one disagreement with donald trump. i like the question. the unfairness is none of the other candidates were asked tough questions. why were you asking about what trump said as a reality tv host and now he's going to help wounded veterans, how he's going to get people back to work, how he's going to deport illegal ail yens. those are the questions and

voters want to hear answers to. not this silliness about things he said in fun and to on funny. >> you know, dandana, trying to think trump is funny itself. megan and all the reporter, everybody is going to be after me. one of the things i took away, the ridiculous comment he made three or four days ago, if i shot somebody on fifth avenue, first of all, it was metaphoric, because he would go right to jail on the spot. so the idea, the bail would be set rather high. would he have to turn over his passport. but why, i would think that might be the first thing somebody might say. why would would you like like that. >> i think donald trump is atrocious for all kinds of reasons. he is a brilliant showman. it doesn't man if he shows up tomorrow. he won this thing tomorrow. look, it's the only thing anyone is talking about today. >> i know. if he doesn't show up, they'll

talk about him. >> they'll be doing split screen over there, where he is out there speaking during the debate. >> wounded veterans. >> of course, without the interference without the mean moderators from fox news. >> you know washington enough that if you're not in the room at the party, the dinner party, you're guaranteed to be talked about. so i mean, i would think that trump, they're all going to, the mod rat moderators are going to take shot after shot at him. you know yourself, cruz not having a sense of humor. his unfunny way will be making these pretty broad humored attempts to put him down. >> none of them have trump's ability to have the one punch knockout. what works about trump's attacks on his opponents, the low energy, they called ben carson to say he was ahead in the polls, but he was sleeping. he has one punch knockouts, because there a grain of truth to it. what these guys don't understand

is, oh, they'll go after him, because he won't be there to punch back, but none of their attacks really work. it doesn't work to call the alpha dog scared of a girl. it just doesn't work. >> tricky, but i get the feeling, you know, i would have said when people took on leslie stall years ago, or natalie up in, i forget her last name, natalie up in boston, if you want to die politically, take on a woman broadcaster. that's changed. he is going to war with megan kelly. i i'm not sure that's a no-no any more. i think you can go to war, man against woman in politics now. what do you think? >> well, certainly trump thinks so. >> tell me if i'm wrong. >> he is completely equal opportunity, when he was going after ben carson for something, oh, i think it was his chronic -- epidemic bad temper,

somebody was asking about it. trump is the one america that doesn't discriminate on the basis of race. he doesn't discriminate on the basis of gender. >> will he show up or not? your thoughts? >> i hope not. i mean, normally these debates get 20 million viewers, and that's all because of trump. if he doesn't show, they'll get 20 million for the first ten minutes, and then people realize, where is trump and it will go down to 7 million. >> i hope he does, because otherwise i have no interest in watching it, like most of america. >> one move to might show up for five minutes and leave. thank you, ann colter, on your good behavior. we don't know how to handle it. we like it. as long as you're not shooting at us. dana mill back, thank you, sir. full hardball coverage before and after the debate. working all night tomorrow night, because i love these nights, 7:00 p.m. eastern, and afterwards 11:00 p.m. eastern again, for a full two-hours going into the morning hours with all the highlights.

a bit of trump of his thing and the wounded warriors of course, the debates about the debates and hopefully trump on tomorrow night. interviews with candidates, top reporters in the spin room, which will be working over time, because there be one less guy there. any way, this is hardball, the place for politics. ahh... yeah! ahh... you probably say it a million times a day. ahh... ahh! ahh... ahh! but at cigna, we want to help

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so every single poll has me winning every single debate. i've done six of them. now you say when does it stop. how many debates do you have to do. let's see how they do with it, let's see how many people watch. let's see how many people watch. i said give money to the wounded warriors. i said give money to the veterans. megan kelly is a lightweight. this is a lightweight. this is not a reporter. this to me is just a lightweight. >> you know, watching those are something else. donald trump feud with fox news over the debate tomorrow night has take edge the spotlight away from his republican rivals once

again. the iowa caucus next monday, monmouth university poll, 30 to 23 against cruz, who seems to be a bit dying there. cruz is counting on iowa's evangelical vote as his best chance to carry the vote. he warned iowa pastors in a closed-door meeting, i love these things, if he manages to pull off a victory, be wear, he'll become unstoppable. here's cruz. >> if donald wins iowa, he right now has a substantial lead in new hampshire, if he went on to win new hampshire as well, there is a very good chance he could be unstoppable and be ournami. >> they let the tv cameras in. according to that poll, cruz

leads trump, 32-25. but jerry falwell junior profile, chipped it away to even. super pac mike huckabee, also taken aim at cruz with an ad intended to peel off his evangelical support. let's listen. >> have you thought about the caucus? a little. >> i heard something about ted cruz that gay marriage wouldn't be a top priory for him. >> he said it at a fund-raiser in new york city. >> i also heard cruz gives less than 1% to charity and church. >> he doesn't tooit. a millionaire that brags all the time. >> just what we need, another phony. >> joined by the round table, you joan robinson, political analyst and comments for the "washington post," carol lee for the wall street journal. i know know of you were affected by that ad. i could tell.

there is some quite smirks there, but that was very targeted there. >> it was extremely targeted. he doesn't tooit. >> what kind of person? >> this is meaningful, and it is designed to raise questions in people's mind about his evangelical. >> gay marriage meaning getting rid of gay marriage. >> it's fascinating how cruz, he is using up a lot of carpal ma in this race, right, because you've got the establishment candidates attacking each other and then you have the appeal evangelical attacking each other and drawing each other down like crabs in a barrel. trump floats above it. >> the macro issue with the cycle is the phony part of it. that's the thing that people are angry about it. people are phony, politicians say what they want to get elected and change their minds. >> i think it would be like -- i'm sorry. it seemed look a person in eye bay trying to figure out a

mayor's race in new york, all the different rules about, you know, sexual more yeas and histories of battle. trying to figure out what are they talking about. i think a lot of people in the east coast looking at iowa saying what are they talking about. >> cruz is not performing among evangelicals as he needs to. huckabee was at 46 peshs. cruz is at 32. >> huckabee was a preacher. a man of the cloth. >> yeah, but well, if you're going to dominate tt vote, you need to dominate the vote to win. he has not dominated the way you're seeing him slip among evangelicals. tell you this, if he's not doing better than 32, i don't know how he wins it. >> teeth tomorrow, big casino, people in policy driven, hate this discussion, but theater matters in politics.

it just does. you know, when ronald reagan spoke from liberty park in new jersey with the statue of liberty behind him, i was with carter back then. trump doesn't show up tomorrow night, does that show he's the guy, does he win with that? >> i think he does win with that. he's dominating the news cycle. but two, you know, cruz has been trying to make the argument that trump is in fact the establishment guy which is sort of helpful to cruz, his argument completely undermined when the establishment of fox is now in a big fight with -- >> not showing up is the ultimate antiestablishment that you can get. i'm not coming to school. >> yes. >> that's what -- that's big talk. >> that's another way in which he's not playing by the traditional rules. and you know, he has done this a bunch of times. >> i didn't go to school today. the home schools might agree with him. >> polling shows that trump's

voters, his supporters seem to be the most decided. they seem to be more firm in their intention than those of other candidates. so in that sense, it's hard to see how he loses a lot. he is already in the lead. >> can you imagine us being around during the times of roosevelt. nobody changed their mind about politics. republicans, nobody. i changed my mind. nobody did. they're sort of lucy out there. look at these numbers. who was that, hillary clinton was 50 points ahead. >> yeah, but that was -- >> sanders a few months ago. up next, these people will tell me something. you're watching hardball, the place for politics. [woodworker] i live in the fine details.

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here's what's happening. eight protest toer -- protesters arrested. bundy issued a statement on his behalf, asking followers to please stand down, please go home. michigan governor rick snyder says no immediate plans to replace the lead pipes. a drinking water crisis. back to hardball. we're back with the hardball round table. jean, tell me something i don't know. >> the pull lits zer prices are 100 years. >> you have one. >> thank you. >> for commentary on your commentary, the beautiful comes

on barack obama for president. >> they're going to be events marking the centennial across the country, events big and small for the entire year, go to pulitzer.com. >> okay. >> it begins this week, tu me sume and the "washington post," and journalism matters. >> are we going to meet some of the winners over the years. >> yes. >> i'm teasing. >> carol? >> all the candidates were digging out in iowa, joe biden, i traveled with him, and he gave an interesting speak to a very well healed crowd on the economy where he talked about the importance of safeguarding the middle class, undergoes revolution. any ways, he had staked out a middle ground that would have been his, the way he campaigned, and certainly be the way he interjects himself.

>> endorsements don't matter. they're perceptions. it mattered in '08. >> teddy. >> yes. when falwell endorsed trump the other day, it's going to matter. it's going to give him a notch. the last thing, really quickly, my friend michael blake who was on the ground there in '08 for us said that o'malley would determine who wins actually in iowa, because his second choice is going to probably break one way or the other. >> there is people if they don't get the proportion they need. >> thank you so much for the round table, coming up, heroin use in the country has become an epidemic. when i talk to two u.s. senators trying to combat the use of the lethal drug. coming up next right here. you're coming, actually, coming up tonight on 9 east, rachel maddow with a special town hall, disaster in flint, michigan. this is hardball, the place for politics.

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welcome back to "hardball." drug addiction from substances like heroin, opiates, and prescription painkillers have grown into a national epidemic. no longer a crisis confined to the inner city, if you will, it has spread to the suburbs and ravaging states like new hampshire, a state in the 2016 spotlight. today on capitol hill, a bipartisan group of senators urged to action while testifying before the senate judiciary committee. we also saw both senate leaders promise, both senate leaders to promise to move quickly. >> last year in kentucky, we lost more people to overdoses than we did in car wrecks. we're trying to craft something that we think makes a difference but work it through the regular order process and move to it soon. >> do you think you can finish

that by the end of the year? >> we certainly hope so. >> i personally think it would be a shame to wait until the end of the year. we should be moving on that now. it's a scourge. the only way it can be resolved is with legislation. >> joined right now by senator jeanne shaheen, a democrat from new hampshire. she testified in today's hearing. she has also announced any level that would provide $600,000 in emergency funding kmat drug addiction. she's joining me along with independent senator angus king of maine who's a co-sponsor of that legislation. senator shaheen, tell us this, what's it like in your state, new hampshire, we're going to be focusing on and visiting in the weeks ahead? >> well, it's a real epidemic. drug and opioid abuse and i think it's gotten to the point where it's a pandemic. this is a real public health emergency. we need to be responding to such. it's encouraging, i think there's a lot of bipartisan support in the senate, and here in congress to address this. and the legislation that senator

king and i have introduced would be a multifaceted approach to supporting those efforts that we know work. everything from law enforcement, to intervention, and treatment and recovery, to prescription drugs, to making sure that we are taking every opportunity we can to stop the abuse and try to help those families who are struggling with this. >> senator king, what kind of people can live a life on heroin? you can't have a job, can you? are they different aged people? are they sort of, like, not working? who are the people who are on heroin? you have to shoot yourself up. it seems to me a complete commitment to this addiction. >> well, it is. it's a way of life, unfortunately, and the other unfortunate piece as you alluded to, chris, in your introduction is this is no respecter of gender, age, race, anything else. it's really a catastrophe. we're losing nationwide, chris,

five people an hour to overdose deaths. now, that's a small fraction of the people who are addicted, but just think of that, between breakfast and lunch, we're going to lose more people this morning than we lost in san bernardino. i mean -- >> what triggered this? >> it's just unbelievable. >> what triggered it? >> i'll tell you what triggered it, the enormous use, and i think overuse and overprescription of prescription painkillers. the experts tell us that four out of five new heroin addicts started on prescription drugs. and that's where i think we need to direct a lot of attention. >> senator shaheen, a lot of people are going to be up there, tell us how you're going to make this case. are you going it be able to beat the drum with the candidates for president who are all going to come to new hampshire in the days ahead? >> chuabsolutely. that's already started. we heard on both sides of the isle the candidates have addressed this, talked about what they've seen in their own families, in their own states

and what they think we ought to do. you know, i've endorsed hillary. i think she has a plan out there that would really call attention to how we need to invest to address this. you know, it's costing $700 billion a year in lost productivity. so the 600 million that we're talking about in our emergency spending bill is a drop in the bucket when you think of what we can do to prevent that lost$600 talking about in our emergency spending bill is a drop in the bucket when you think of what we can do to prevent that lost productivity. >> yeah. >> we spent $5 billion last year to address the ebola outbreak and had only one death in this country from ebola. we're losing in new hampshire a person a day from drug overdoses. three times as many last year as we lost in traffic accidents. >> okay. well i hope the people suffering from this addiction right now take action right now and family members to stop it now. >> me, too. >> this is going to take at least a year to get something done here. thank you so much, senator jeanne shaheen and senator angus king. >> thank you. when we return, let me

finish with a role model for donald trump, the roughrider himself, teddy roosevelt. i have a particular point to make tonight. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. fight back fast tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue and neutralizes stomach acid at the source tum, tum, tum, tum smoothies! only from tums does printing from your tablet give you a jolt of confidence? then you might be gearcentric.

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let me finish tonight with another new yorker who found himself in the presidential business. teddy roosevelt was our youngest and in his day perhaps the most popular president. he was roughrider, the guy who charged up san juan hill, the guy who built the panama canal,

took on the trust, won the nobel peace prize for ending the war between russia and japan and of course great pioneer work in conservation. there was something else about him. he was a plan of conviction. he promised in 1904 even before his inauguration that he wouldn't seek re-election again. four years later, he kept that promise. he knew that if he changed his mind when 1908 had come around and ran again, people would have supported him. he was popular, after all. people would just figure, well, that's what politicians do, go back on their word. for their own self-interest. that's why teddy roosevelt said he didn't run again in 1908 because he, teddy roosevelt, said he wouldn't. that's why he's up there on mt. rushmore today. i say this because whatever else i think about donald trump, my god, he's a mixed bag, i'd like him to stick to what he said last night and not let him show up at tomorrow night's debate. let them have the debate without donald trump or anyone else who looks remotely like him up on the well-list stage. excuse me for being a lover of romance. if politics doesn't have its

wonders, why pay attention in the first place. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. don't forget, join rachel maddow in one hour at 9:00 eastern for a special town hall "an american disaster: the crisis in flint." "all in with chris hayes" of course starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> we're not seeing a lot of courage here, are we? >> donald trump escalates with fox news. >> i don't know what games roger ailes is playing but what's wrong over there. >> tonight, new questions about the rnc's role in the fox news debate. >> you know, that's not for us to second guess. >> and the one reporter who knows whether any of this is real or not. plus, why republicans are beginning to blame jeb bush for the rise of trump. why hillary is suddenly in favor of another debate. and bernie is suddenly not. and tonight, steve kornacki reveals the bernie sanders path to victory. when "all in" starts right now.