>> we'll be back tomorrow live from des moines, "with all due respect" starts right now. i'm john i'm mark halperin. with all due respect to rick n santorum, there a new sweater in town. >> held will he aga >> hello again, four days until the iowa caucus, and new merrist university polls out today, including one in iowa, where donald trump is leading with 32%, up 8 points from the same poll. senator cruz is up. 25%. marco rubio in third at 18%. he is up five. other polls show trump leading

in new hampshire and south carolina too from the same series of polls. that is the statistical prelude to tonight's debate, here in dedes moines center we're sitting. donald trump is not planning to be at this fox news debate. he's holding his own event to raise money for veterans. for the other white house hopefuls on the republican side, a high stakes evening of cut, thrust and hail marys. john, what are you looking for in the trumpless debate. >> i'm looking for how many different kinds of weapons are deployed against ted cruz, and how many actually cutlasser rate or bruise him over the evening. he's going to on the target on stage tonight as the co front-runner with donald trump off the stage. everyone will try to take down ted cruz. >> i think the target will be marco rubio. he's the strongest of the establishment candidates. you look at the other people on the stage. bush, christie, rubio,

especially, kasich especially, they have to stop marco rubio, who is now possibly going to come out with a strong third place finish, and they need to stop him. cruz may have a relatively light -- >> that would be -- if that were true, i would have to eat my hat. i don't think that's going to happen. he's on the down slope. people see him as having some nullner ability. with rubio on the rise, there is no doubt rubio is rising. i said some people think maybe he could slip into second place. now people outside rubio's world, looking at the polling data, cruz falling, rubio rising. >> a ton of establishment vote in this caucus that has not been accounted for as of now. all of these establishment candidates, in talking to the christie people and the bush people and of a course the kasich people, he's going to be the top candidate here. slow him down and not let him

come out of here with a head of steam. cruz and rubio, they've been the best debate tors. watch them go at it tonight. >> i'm looking forward to that. all right, turning now to that trump-thon, as everyone is fully aware, republican rivals, the donald says he'll be at drake university in an auditorium less than five miles away from the main debate. mike huckabee, which is ostensibly a nonprofit organization, that group, however has been under fire this week that it spends a sizable chunk of the donations it receives on lavishes conferences instead of helping veterans. given all these variables, all these build-up, is there a chance that this event will backfire on trump or at least fall plat. >> i think the debate with trump a big attraction.

i think a lot of interest in iowa and around the country. without trump, a whole new dynamic. it will be fascinating to see without the -- >> will it be a debate or will they give stump speeches. >> the trump event, he does not do bad events. his events are entertaining. there may be, they have had to put it together at the last minute. there may be a lack of energy. i think the debate, they talked about a split screen. we're talking about picture in picture. the debate in the big box, trump in the little box. >> a little chance there is -- this is maybe the most outlandish bold thing he has done, walking away from the debate, giving the finger to fox news, it's clear everyone is going to cover, everyone but fox news that s i think there a chance that unless trump does something special that people will come away and say really, all that hubbub to give us that.

>> it's possible. but i don't think, even if that's the case, even worst case, low energy event. the debate is good. trump will not pay a price for it. >> i don't think it will hurt trump, but it could be a damp screen. >> the war has escalated over the last 24 hours, since trump decided he was not going to the debate. hardened on both sides. donald trump junior, that's the son of the candidate, called fox news, childish, and on cnn, campaign manager suggested that fox news should have disclosed that they have a daughter that works for the rubio campaign. in turn, fox says trump was wrong when he said that the ad rates dropped when they said he wasn't going to be in the debate. to get a sense of how exhausting this back and forth is, look at how trump handled the issue on the o'reilly factor on fox, as

he was talking about how he thrives under pressure. >> i'm only doing it because i agreed to do it last week. otherwise i wouldn't have done it. >> but donald, you have to understand, number one, kelly's question was within journialist particular bounds. >> i disagree. >> that's good. you won the debate. that's what america is about. don't waulk away from it. bill, let's talk about something important. this is not that important. let's talk about something more important. >> okay, so john, assuming trump doesn't show up at the debate, who has the current upper hand and does it matter after tonight? >> i think it matters. but let's just say this. first let's start with the question of whether trump is or not going to show up tonight. i think there is -- there was some subetter than 50/50 chance

that he will show up. will you w i think it makes it very unlikely he'll show up, and i do this it matters, because if he is decleared the winner, he'll proved himself to be bigger force. >> fox is obviously going to be fascinated and interested in seeing what the ratings are. i think if they're low, they may have to go back, as they did once again. >> with their tail between their legs, to trooum to try to make nice. look, o'reilly, to some extent, fox and friends, they're kind of their own entities. they're able to have relationships with gusts that transcend. i don't think the network over all will be soured going forward, because one of the things about trump, he's willing to forgive and forget. >> very short memory. >> whatever is good for trump, ale do. he doesn't care about the past. that's a good trait in this, because at some point, if he's

the nominee, he's going to want fox on his side again. >> when we come back, we'll clean up our barack fest with bernie. and guess who mark saw on the campaign trail today with buba. you'll see after this. does printing from your tablet to your wireless printer

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today bloomberg politics breakfast in this room, hosted by our colleague, al hunt, bernie sanders showed a rare flash of anger when he was asked by al about whispers from clinton alleys that the sanders campaign may bus people in on caucus night. >> the clinton people say that they are in places like ames and iowa city, they're worried that a number of out of state people may show up at the caucus and make a major effort to make sure that's not the case. >> really?

is that what they're saying? you talk about negative stuff? really. based on what did they say that? >> i don't know. >> based on david brocks, long history of integrity. the man who tried to destroy anita hill. is this where this is coming from. everyone of you knows. you know it. everyday you're being flooded by all this negative stuff from the secretary clinton's super pac. that's the first i've ever heard of it. i don't want my integrity and honesty to be impugned. i have no idea who says this. this a lie. an absolute lie. >> okay, so this race is neck in neck. we've got new polling out, shows it's as toss up. the ads are negative without mentioning the names, clear shots with sanders, goldman sachs. what do you think about the risks of the negativity, in this

place, iowa, nice. is either of the sides right now gone over the line that might hurt them on caucus night. >> this race has become more tense, because it is a one-on-one battle. there are so many different combinations in the republican race, and single toward a single candidate. you saw it in sanders. clinton people feeling better. they've got allies in the state. we'll ae talk about that in a second. bernie sanders did with the "washington post" a couple of days ago and he suggested that the clinton campaign doesn't have as much fire and energy. taking the ad and put it all over the state. passion and emotion. there is the quote there from senator sanders, again the clinton folks have taken that quote and like a football team, tacking it up in the locker room all over the state. this is intense. you see it in senator sanders, and i think although there might

not be explicitly negative ads. >> here's the thing, the sanders campaign runs goldman sachs ad and talks about speaking fees. both sides have gone negative from that way. eight years ago here, by this time in the iowa caucuses, three clinton surrogates had publicly said coke dealer in college. that's nasty. we have nothing like that in this race so far. >> you're right. >> it's been gentle with, and nothing i think that is going to turn iowaians off the race. >> accusing each other of being negative. earlier today, i caught up with former president clinton in waverly iowa, in what we like to call clinton classic. take a look at the sweater he wore. it got quite a big of attention in the room. the most news worthy thing i

think was not actually what former president clinton said. he made his standard remarks. it was one of the people traveling with president clinton, democratic operative michael hooley. he's widely known as a mimaistr helping both al gore presidential campaigns back from the brink. here's what happened when i ran into michael hooley. >> this means it's very serious. why are you here? >> volunteer. >> volunteer? a long way from home. mr. president, michael hooley is here. why is that? why is he here? >> he's good to have around, isn't he? >> yeah, a man -- >> if he's here, what does that mean for hillary. >> something good. everything he touches. he's like her, anything he ever touches. >> now, hooley's associates say

he's here to travel with president clinton to keep him up to speed on what's going on in iowa, not to take over clinton's campaign field operation. be that as it may, and there are other clinton people coming, marshall is helping go down to goor. there are other people coming. the fact that michael hooley, who is such a big deal, the fact that he is here, is that a good or bad sign. >> it's both good and bad. look, let's be clear. accuse of being too far on the inside, but michael hooley, american politics, and then more accurately called him the winston wolf. comes when there a mess to clean up, and cleans everything up. that's what michael hooley has done consistently for many, many democrats. it's good news in the sense that he's very good at what he does, but bad in the sense that you don't call him until you're in

trouble. >> i talked to five different clinton people and they all say he's not here to take over. >> lucky charm. >> just how happy. >> everything he touches turns to gold. >> a democratic nomination fights. >> even if all he's doing is playing hearts. it does show the fact that the clintons who where are our people. having people fly to the state and help them at the end, we saw the sanders operation this morning over at a hotel up the street. they continue to be about six people. and so the scale of what the clintons have is big. >> right. >> always shows loyalty. it makes them feel good. human nature. >> two more things about that. the case like there is a usually it's only when the clintons feel they're in jeopardy. not necessarily going down the tubes. >> all hands on deck. >> usually in jeopardy moments. second of all, gets to the kwef confidence and politics.

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markey rubio. >> excellent. my favorite topic. >> tell me where you think it stands right now nationally. >> you have to ask the rubio campaign. >> you've been observing them. do you think they're strong dpl they're probably doing fine in iowa. we're focused more on new hampshire we're strong and south carolina. you have to talk to them. >> we keep hearing from the rubio people, not the campaign itself, but there is a chance that rubio will pass cruz in iowa. >> is that what they said in the press conference? >> there is people supporting him. is that possible? >> no. >> it's not possible. >> possible but highly unlikely. >> first or second. >> first or second. >> trump list debate tonight. i said that it affected your man, ted cruz more than anybody. tell me what the debate is going to be like tonight? how will it be different assuming trump is not on the stage. >> donald trump will be on the stage. look, there is -- >> we have to rip up the show.

>> there is 20 million in one audience, where do you think donald trump is going to be? >> you don't think there will be television cameras at his event. >> but he's center -- he'll come back. >> so first of all, you think he'll be on the debate stage. >> i do. >> unequivocally, huge mistake on his part, he screwed this up completely and all good for you. >> this is the iowa debate. these people wanted this debate and now he's not going to be in the iowa debate. >> let me ask you this question. smart or dumb move by trump. >> dumb. it's not about trump. it's about the voters in iowa. by the way, who gets a lot of his or her information from fox news. so i don't think it's a smart move at all. i'm not sure i agree with rick on him showing up. i know my boss bet $20 he will there be tonight. >> make the bet with you? >> i was standing in the room, but i don't think -- i would be happy to collect on it if he

loses. >> just explain it to me, though. if donald trump gets coverage of this event from msnbc, cnn, c-span, ever other cable network, everybody in the world covers it, how is that not a bigger audience? how is that -- >> no, it's just not. the fox audience is going to be the biggest audience, combining everything else he might do tonight. by the way, an opportunity for candidates to talk about real things, s substance, how we're going to go after isis and defeat them. it's time to talk about the issues. vote voters in iowa are serious. we have to move some of these games that are being played. the season is almost over. a few days away when voters have their say. >> they had a video of your boss

in an event saying that if donald trump wins iowa, he may not be to stop. is that what your boss thinks? if so, is that a message he'll continue to share with the voters? >> i think if he wins iowa, he'll be difficult to stop. i don't think anybody disagrees with that. i'm suspicious of his voters that come out. they predict a turnover of over 300,000. there is not a pied piper in the iowa caucuses. it may be a record, maybe 130. no increased voter registration. i don't see signs. we'll see. but look, one thing about the donald trump, he did bring the audience to the debates, but you know what, they've watched all the way through. so i think they're going to stay. they're going to stay with the debates. that's a good thing. we didn't think they would watch the debates when it would be 6 million, 24 million, tonight, i'm guessing over 20 million again, because people are in the process now. >> i want to you be a little bit honest here, just for a little.

>> we are. >> for a moment in this interview. i know trump's decision not to come, i saw you all coming in the building after it was announced, and you were plainly discome bob you lated. >> do a little trump for us here. >> i'm not going to do it here. >> how do you change? >> you have to do both. debate prep as if he's going to be on the strange. >> trump and trumpless. >> it takes more time. different, you know, strategies. different dynamics when he's on the stage and when he's not. >> different supporters, they've said tonight is the night bush has to have a big night. he has had better debates of late, but none where he has dominated i think it's fair to say. is he read tonight. pro

projects the kind of person? >> i think he's been strong in every debate. if donald trump is not in the debate, it will allow more time for serious issues. talking about issues. talking about policy, talking about the things american people care about. and if we've got that opportunity instead of the whole side show of donald trump and all the celebrity and all the craziness that comes along with that, i think governor bush will do well tonight. >> you know know as well as any operative we know, and we've been watching the establishment candidates here, none of them really gathered up that still really big chunk in iowa. between now and the caucuses, is there a channels of a surprise? bush, christie, your guy, christie, somebody else, is there a chance that we'll see a big surprise on monday night and the establishment comes together and puts them in third, second, makes them a strong finish? >> i think the establishment, the mainstream portion of the

parties is a giant more thsh pi >> it just remains fragmented, no clear establishment, like clear leader coming out of iowa. >> it will play out in the debate tonight. rubio, they want to push down rubio so he doesn't do well in new hampshire. they don't want him to come out as the establishment candidate in new hampshire. i've heard cruz will be the target tonight. he may be, but i think rubio will be a target tonight. >> mr. trump and senator cruz for a while had -- they've been battling fiercely. might they go back to their neutral corners. >> people want to know the differences between candidates. donald trump now we're learning has been pro amnesty, pro stimulus, pro tarp, pro abortion, you know, pro. >> pro hillary. >> he's been -- everything he says he was.

>> contrast will continue. >> yes. >> rick, tyler, thanks so much. good luck to your candidates. >> canadian bacon in your headquarters. >> what bernie sanders told us over breakfast, right here after this. there's only one egg that gives you better taste and better nutrition in so many varieties. classic. cage free. and organic. only eggland's best. better taste. better nutrition. better eggs. this bale of hay cannot be controlled. when a wildfire raged through elkhorn ranch,

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don't settle for u-verse. x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. so now we have some more from this morning's fantastic bloomberg's politics breakfast with senator bernie sanders. that was led by our colleague and friend, al hunt. the senator, senator sanders that is, was asked about his meeting with the president yesterday. this is what he had to say. >> i have known barack obama for i guess ten years now. in 2006, he came to vermont to campaign for me. we were at the university of vermont. of course, there were far more people than the chapel could accommodate and he was very helpful to my campaign in 2008.

i did my best to campaign for him, to get him elected in 2012. i worked hard for his reelection. i have supported the vast majority of initiatives brougfoy the president, and look, it's election time, people are partisan. to answer your question, we had i think a good discussion as friends do. we talked about foreign policy a bit. i wanted to review with him where he thought we were in terms of isis. we talked about some domestic issues, and yes, the issue of politics did arise. barack obama knows a little bit about iowa, so we chatted about that as well. >> what did he say? >> private conversation. >> so al, here's my question about this.

bernie sanders gets a huge, huge gift for him to get to go and be at the white house just a few days before the caucus. what do you read into this? they have a theory about this. what is yours about this. >> well, i think obama is clearly for hillary clinton. he can't say it. he won't say it right now. but he thinks she has the best chance to succeed him and retain his legacy if you will. it would be a disadvantage right now to tilt that way. i think that he is going to play it even, and for bernie, obama is 90% popular in the state of iowa. obama is a ra veered figure that are going to go to the caucus. for bernie to wrap himself around obama is a gift. >> two two congressional endorsements, one member of the establishment, republican side all the time. how much does the democratic establishment think if sanders is a nominee, that's okay, or a

nightmare for them. >> a nightmare for some elected officials. i think the members of congress are really more afraid, and but i don't get a sense out here in iowa based on two days, i don't get a sense there is a whole lot of republicans, if it's cruz or trump, i'm worried about it. i don't get that fear among democrats out here. >> let's take a listen of the breakfa breakfast. we have sanders talking. he hit back, when he was asked about the "washington post," which came out with a recent editorial. he hit back, here. >> senator, do you want to react to the "washington post" editorial that seemed to very strongly say that you're essentially lying to voters about your plans, and what you can get done and would you like to? >> yes, i would. thank you very much. i mean that p, that's not a new argue. we've been hearing that for months and months. that's in a sense what this campaign is about. but this campaign is about is

what is saying is that what very few people have in fact talked about in recent history. and that is, people are telling us whether it's the "washington post" editorial or anybody else, our ideas are too ambitious, can't happen. too bold. really? the "washington post" wants to say that are ideas are bold. i accept that. but right now, that is precisely what working families and the middle class want. they're tired of working longer hours for low wages and seeing almost all new income and wealth going to the top 1%. we have to stand up to that. we have to create an economy that works for the middle class, whether the "washington post" likes it or not, that's what i intend to do. >> so "washington post," interesting to me, that they wrote that editorial. pretty strong. is the criticism from that point of view that sanders is too bold or not specific enough? >> both.

if he were really specific about how bold he is, they wouldn't like that. >> right. maybe even more, or less. >> in a faceoff between the editorial page and bernie sanders among iowa caucus goers, that's a gift for bernie too. the gifted editorial writer for the "washington post" was sitting there and smiling, which he wrote a very good piece about what bernie did. >> they're the establishment too. >> of course they are. and the post editorial page is less liberal than new york times, so i think sanders loved to be asked that question to join it to make all of the points that he likes to make in the campaign trail. >> all right, let's play this last piece of tape. we spent a lot of time talking about going negative here's a little of that. >> i have never run a negative ad in my life. not many politicians could tell you that. i have not. for two reasons. number one, in this case, i've

known hillary clinton for 25 years. i have a lot of respect for her. and i think she has done a very good job serve the american people. so i'm not here to attack her. a, i wouldn't do that. and b, it doesn't work. people are tired of hearing politicians say i'm great, i'm perfect, i'm wonderful, but everybody else is awful. so i don't do that. but you know, what a campaign is about is a contrast in ideas. why would i run for office if my views were not different than hillary clinton's. she was in philadelphia last night to raise substantial sums of money from an vestment baeng banker. that's what she has been doing. that's how she has raised money throughout her political career. millions of dollars from wall street and special interests. that's fine. i don't raise money that way. >> al, 20 seconds, both sides accusing each other of being viscously negative. are they or just being --

>> you nailed it earlier. this is so being bag. my gosh, she has raised money from wall street. so what. she he's been a little more -- her campaign, particularly david brock and company, certainly have been more negative than anything sanders has done. even in that world, it's not that negative. i think what he said was totally legitimate. he gets really mad if you talk about the negative stuff on him. >> accuse him of having gout. >> that would be a disqualifier. >> have you ever had gout. >> never, never. >> i'm happy to hear ha. >> you're awesome. fans particular and amazing. coming up, the chairman of the republican national committee. don't forget, if you're watching us in washington, d.c., you can listen to us and we'll be right back.

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the candidates didn't want us to get in the middle of it. so the reality is the candidates want to negotiate on their own with the networks and that's ha they wanted to do and that's what we've let them do. >> you've been in the debate process in a variety of ways, youpre s you presumely would think if donald trump is on the debate stage. >> sure. that's what we would anticipate, by putting out the calendar months ago, and having them agree. i've also said and i've said it a million times, our job, and what we did is said here are the debates for the 2016 election. you can compete in any debates you want. you don't have to compete in all the debates. if you compete in a debate not on the calendar -- >> better for voters in iowa, across the country and better for the party for trump to be on the stage, why not offer to be helpful? >> well. >> what would be wrong with that. >> offer to be helpful in what

way. >> mediating, trying to bring the parties together? >> i don't think it's the place to be, the mediator between a debate outlet and the candida s candidates. i also think that, you know, the trump campaign is going to make the decisions they're going to make, just like all these candidates. i'm not going to sit there and beg a campaign that's decided that it's in their interest not to attend to attend. just like i didn't go to rand paul and say rand, you've got to be in this debate over here, otherwise, boy, the whole thing -- i just -- i don't care, you know, it's -- if the candidates want to compete in the debate, they can. if is in their interest not to, who am i to say. >> one role you'll continue to play you pick the media outlets that have the debates. >> sure. >> one of them is mocking one of your candidates s that appropriate. >> listen, what i think is that obviously there is a war of words that goes on, sometimes between media outlets or

particular reporters and candidates and that happens. when national review, for example, they had written critical articles, and but wait, i was fine moving forward national review. an article here or there. that was not the issue. when an entire publication comes on and says this is it our editorial opinion, and that's not what happened with fox news. he was on o'reilly last night. come on. >> the union leader was removed from a debate. >> that's right. >> is that appropriate for a sponsor of the debate who is going to televise it to put out a press release to mock the candidates? is that appropriate. >> i'm not going to get in the middle, and i'm not going to. >> i'm not asking you to get in the middle. >> that's up for the two entities to argue about. as far as -- but if an entity comes out and says our mission is going to be -- >> i'm asking -- let me go a different way. let's say we're teaching a course at the university of

wisconsin, just doing a hypothetical, politics and media 101, is it good manners for a debate sponsor within days of the debate to put out a press release mocking one of the candidates? would you tell our students, that's fine, or you know what, probably not a good idea? >> you know, look -- >> what would you tell the kids, mr. chairman? >> i would tell people to treat other people as you want be treated okay. but the fact of the matter is, these disputes between reporters and media outlets and candidates are not disputes that we're going to get in the middle of everyone. but i will call the shots when someone has chosen to be promoted or opposed. >> why? >> because that's different. >> what's the different in principle between -- >> because it's -- >> what degree of. >> its as a one off. >> it really -- it's a -- well, first of all, war of words with them as you said for months.

>> but also look at the air time. i mean, i can't -- you can't possibly say -- >> you think it's okay to mock him to do a show on their channel? >> i think it's okay for particular reporters and some publications to have a tough article about a particular candidate, but when an actual publication takes a publication wide position. >> i'm going to try to one more time. this wasn't journalism. they mocked him in a press release. there is no journalist particular need. >> they're just thumbing their nose at him. >> just from the wall street journal from a particular writer, it doesn't mean they can't be a debate sponsor. if the wall street journal said this is our candidate and this is the person we support, they can't be in the debate. >> is there anything that fox news could do to any of the candidates that would cause you to take away the debate?

>> if they came on and said we're all for this one or all a opposed to this person or and devoted like a magazine or a newspaper would, then yeah, i think -- >> let me ask you a question i asked tom broke cau, wbrokaw, w reminds you of donald trump? >> no one in particular. >> no one in particular? okay. >> so what's -- >> that didn't work either. >> so the republican debate without donald trump is a day without sunshine. ? is it going to be worth watching. >> well, of course it is. just like the first debate we were watching. the main stage is worth watching. a lot of people watching. it's going to be, i don't know how many millions, but something that would certainly that would break any record from the past. >> all right, chairman, thank you.

>> reince priebus, always a pleasure, and a delight to have you at this table. >> happy birthday to your son. >> you bet. >> we'll be right back. what makes thermacare different? two words: it heals. how? with heat. unlike creams and rubs that mask the pain, thermacare has patented heat cells that penetrate deep to increase circulation and accelerate healing. let's review: heat, plus relief, plus healing, equals thermacare. the proof that it heals is you. does printing from your tablet give you a jolt of confidence?

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great restaurant town, des moines. if you know the food here, you know the great institution, zombie burger and drink lab. in honor of the caucuses, they're doing a bit of customization. >> i'm tomorrow mccur ran, i'm the executive chef. we decided we're going to run 18 burgers. bernie sanders, it's an aged cheddar, ghost chilly. a little bit of jewish and spicy. running one today, it's called the monte christie.

deep fried. this one right here, the ben carson burger, as you can see, it's actually tacos, if i go with no political experience, we can make tacos at a burger restaurant, that's ha we went with. >> our next guest, like me and john, is a huge fan of zomzombi he's a democratic operative who advised barack obama campaigns and ran the 1996 of iowa's own senator tom harkin. in this race, jeff plans to caucus for hillary clinton. although you're clear eyed assessor of what's going on. first tell us why you choose hillary clinton over bernie sanders. >> i think hillary clinton would make the best nominee for the democrats. >> most electable? >> i think she has the experience to get real results. i think she can move the country forward, because she has

relationships on both sides of the aisle and has the experience to get things done. i think, you know, while sanders has a great message and is great in theory, i just don't think it will ever become reality with brs. >> let me ask you this question. take the hat off for a minute and do an honest assessment here on two fronts. is bernie sanders's ground game here, his operation in the state strong or week or somewhere in between, and second, is he closing strong or do you think he is actually kind of fading a little at the end. >> i think i would say his ground game is pretty good. i think his social media game is excellent. i think they're doing great things online with snap chat and instagram and everything else that they're doing. i think that their actual ground game, the traditional door-to-door effort probably needs to be improved, only because they got a late start at it. but they have smart people, and they're doing really good things. the one thing that does sort of trouble me about the sanders

operation is that they've made a big effort that they're going to rent all these advance and take kids from college campuses and send them back to their homes. think that's another one of these things where it sounds like a great theory, but when you actually try to execute on that, i mean, what you're doing -- >> xbox in the vans? >> the problem is not getting back to the caucus. the problem is once the cause is over and you seau kay. >> how do i get those kids home? >> not only do i get them home, but they're going to watch the results and celebrate with their parents instead of the kids they've been working with. >> if hillary clinton called you right after the show, and said what can i do to win the caucuses, what would you tell her. >> go out into rural iowa and be yourself. >> do you think she's not spend gs enough time in rural iowa. >> i think you can always spend more time. >> what do you think, where do you think it will be? >> i don't think we're going to

get to the 240,000 that we had in 2008. my guess, somewhere under 200,000, but north of 150. >> would you say if it's that high, senator sanders will win. >> if if gets over 200,000, he has a good shot at winning. >> is he closing strong, fading, or is she closing strong and fading bit at the end. >> i don't have any proof. we'll see what the polls say on saturday. it felt like last week, he had a lot of wind in his saleils. >> does she have the wind in her sails right now. >> i think she has had some really good events. i really like the clothes that she has in a couple of the new spots. the best formulation that they've had so far. >> why didn't you think of using simon and gar fun kel in any of your ads this is going to end

with none of us calling a negative ad. why is that? >> i just think it's been a different sort of race here. we've got a small field, which democrats are not accustomed to. usually we have the free-for-all, like the republicans have this tiechlt because of the free-for-all on the other side, it really has enginedered a lot of negativity and some resistance to go down that path. >> next time you come back, bring us a zombie burger. >> how many has barack obama had in 2008? >> i don't think he had any. >> we'll be right back. we'll tell you who won the day after this. these are the hands

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the debate will determine the out come. >> this saturday night, right here, streaming live on bloomberg.com, the des moines, iowa poll, tune in for that details oon the website now. >> final thing to say. rest in peace, the former providence mayor, radio host and as we can attest, a phenomenon tv guest. he was 74. he'll be out lived by his marinara sauce. >> you can catch us here and on blumberg radio and 99.1. big debate tonight, the trump event, a roundup of one of the weirdest nights in america. >> awesome tonight. zombie burgers later. >> until tomorrow, thanks for watching. see you back here in des moines. until tomorrow. >> "hardball with chris matthews" starts now.

trump's test of strength. let's play hardball. >> good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. heading this weekend to des moines. he has gone and done it. he said he could shoot someone right there on fifth avenue and his fans would stick with him. he's doing something a lot more legal but damn dramatic. skipping the debate. arrive al event at 9:00 p.m. earn tonight, against fox, moderated by megan kelly. a big competing event he hopes will make the trumpless debate, the little kid's table. so what represents that real political reality in the world today? what's on fox, or wha t