matthews" starts now. trump's test of strength. let's play hardball. >> good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. heading this weekend to des moines. he has gone and done it. he said he could shoot someone right there on fifth avenue and his fans would stick with him. he's doing something a lot more legal but damn dramatic. skipping the debate. arrive al event at 9:00 p.m. earn tonight, against fox, moderated by megan kelly. a big competing event he hopes will make the trumpless debate, the little kid's table. so what represents that real political reality in the world today? what's on fox, or what trump

will do? which we will cover actually here on msnbc at 9 eastern. marchrist polls show trump ahead in three key states. iowa leads cruz by seven points now. going up. 32-25. rub rubio, strong showing. in new hampshire, the next contest, way ahead there, way ahead. beating cruz 19 points. 31-12. almost 3-1. in south carolina, up 16 points over cruz. the state of the race kwaut advise president biden's attention today. he was speaking at a restreet. he joked about the leader of the pack, trump and cruz. >> by the way, we may be given a gift from the lord in the presidential race here. i don't know who to root for more. cruz or -- what's that guy's

name? he's having a fund-raiser for veterans tonight i'm told. >> nbc's chris chan see, katy tur is live outside tonight's trump event in des moines. katie, this is one of the strangest nights. i'm going to talk about it at the end of the show tonight. just the latest events at the carnival. going for the first wheel to the roller coaster. what's next? any way, tonight, how many people are going to be at the event that's the counter event, the trump event. >> this auditorium only has 700 seats, can only fit 700 people as the campaign has over sold the event or gave out too many free tickets, so they're going to have to turn away the vast majority who have been standing in the cold. the line is still very long, believe me, chris and it's fill up quickly. 700 people is what i'm told.

i spoke to a few people inside, asked them what they thought about him skipping the debate and the predominant answer is they like he's bucking the system. they like he's playing by his own rules. they like the show of it. some of them have said they understand the game he's playing. and that they're entertained by it. i spoke to a couple of veterans in there, and they told me that they are sick inned by this administration. they said they don't like the way that this country is going. they don't like how it's changed culturally. they also tell me they want it to go back to the way it was when they were younger. they think donald trump is as they've said a 19 or 20th century president, and i asked what that means. they said that they want the country to go back to what they're calling their christian values. so's speaking to a crowd of people in there that are open to hearing his ideas, open to hearing his plans, open to the things like a muslim ban and he is definitely appealing to them, chris.

>> was there any attempt at the last minute, bill o'reilly was making an appeal, i was watching that on the factor. has there been anything under the table to get him to show up, or too late? this thing had already been set up? >> i'm not sure. i know that bill o'reilly was offering milk shakes. i wonder if he offered a blizzard, it would have been better, joking aside, i'm not entirely sure what was under the table dealings have been going on between the trump campaign and fox network. i can tell you there are people who are closely associated with the debate, who say that they are not entirely sure that he is not going to show up. they have that podium ready for him if he does show up late. he has secret service. ben carson has secret service. that place has been swept. it would mean donald trump could get into the venue because he is already in a bubble. they would need about 20 minutes to reset the lighting to get him on stage.

i'm not sure he'll show up. the campaign has been adamant about not showing up, but i wouldn't be surprised if he asked the crowd and confront megan kelly and they cheer yes, we might see him get in a car in a motorcade and storm the debate. >> let me go to -- hold on there, katy, chris, you know, this is something you and i haven't seen before. it's not like anybody has missed it. it has never happened before. you have two of the republican campaigns, after they do their first debate, early debate are going to show up at the trump events. he's pulling people over to his event. >> yeah, i just talked to huckabee's campaign manager. why wouldn't we go over there. it's a chance to get a two fer. why wouldn't we. plus, we're associated with veterans. they love it, but to katy's point, what she was just saying, i think the most true statement i heard in talking to people all

day today here was until they say good night and thank you, you don't know what's going to happen. cruz's campaign manager said to me, 100% he's going to get in a car and be on the debate stage. that may be wishful thinking, because it's to his advantage. i couldn't find very many people who ruled out completely that trump would shock everybody, i mean, twitter may break if he decides to show up at the last minute to this debate. but we will see. i mean, as we've all said so many times, if you think something is going to happen, expect the opposite to happen, because that's the kind of season it's been. >> okay, let me ask you about the possibility that they'll be talking about trump in his absence more than they would in his presence. he only gets 15 minutes out of two hours. tonight he gets all the time in

his event. i get the feeling all the time with megan kelly, she may start up with a trump question to cruz, you know, just to get the thing ginned up. i don't think he'll be absent in topic. maybe physically. >> you can't have him be absent in topic, because he's donald trump, right. he has been setting the agenda throughout all of this. but look, a lot of this is about staying relevant. you know, you're going to have situations where people just want to go after the next guy closest to them. so you're going to see, you know, maybe cruz and marco going at it. you're going to see people who really need to try to stay relevant here. ben carson, who was really interesting when i talked to a republican pollster, i said is there one person who might actually surprise on monday and he said looking at what they are seeing, if it's a low turnout, it could be ben carson could come back into the conversation. so a lot of being on the stage isn't about trump.

they know where trump stands. it's about moving themselves up to a place where they're staying relevant, chris. >> let me go back to katy and the question. wouldn't be it be a smart move by trump, skip the debate, don't go back on his word, saying he would go back on his word, chicken, buckle, putin or somebody, go over to the spin room afterwards and take add va -- advantage of all the press. >> that would be definitely an interesting turn of events. i mean, i think you, in order to gauge what donald trump would do, i think you have to figure out what would give him maximum attention and maximum publicity and bang for his buck. he's a deal maker, one thing he's very good at is figuring out how to play the media and how to play journalist and how to play the crowds. he knows what's going to get

attention. he knows walking away from the debate is going to get a lot of attention and puts the pressure on fox news. then again, i don't know. i wouldn't be surprised if there was some back door dealings with roger ails or rupert murdock to come out in the middle of it, and as chris just said, break the internet. i mean, i don't know. i think that anything we try to predict with donald trump is just fruitless at this point. >> one person from another campaign just said to me exactly what you said. he said i'll bet he stays in his event but then comes here to the spin room on the other end of the spectrum, another campaign said to me donald trump is not physically capable of walking away from a potential audience of 20 million. it goes against his dna. >> we'll see. >> those are the two ends of the spectrum. >> he can get both by showing up afterwards. as i mentioned last night on fox news, bill o'reilly repeatedly

tried to get trump to reconsider skipping debate. even joking about past wagers between the two of them. let's watch. >> would you do me a favor, bill -- >> you owe me. i bought you so many vanilla milk shakes. would you just consider, i want you to krrks all right, think about it, look, i might come back, forgive, go forward, answer the questions, look out for the folks. >> well, even though you and i had an agreement that you wouldn't ask me that, which we did, i will therefore forget that you asked me that. but it's up to fox. it's not up to me bill. >> you're telling the truth there. >> you actually did break the agreement. >> you're telling the truth. >> i told you up front, i said don't ask me that question, because it's an embarrassing question for you. >> two alpha dogs going at it.

>> a.marosa, give us a sense of this whole thing. he could make tonight's republican debate the little kid's table. he could reduce its importance. >> let me end the suspense for everyone. he's not going to this debate. there is no way he's going to give any audience to fox news. that is the end of the story. he is staying at his own event. he is honoring men and women who put their lives on the line for this country. our veterans is what his focus is tonight. he's not going to show up at the fox debate. >> who is going to tell him what the other candidates say about him during the two-hour debate. i can't believe he's going to walk off his events, which is for the wounded veterans, a great cause, he's going to come off of that and then go to somebody, will he go to you? who is he going to ask? then he has to respond to that. perhaps in the spin room. perhaps somewhere else tonight. he won't wait until tomorrow to

respond. >> he's not sitting around waiting to see who is going to make the news. donald trump is the news. co careless what the other folks are saying about him. >> all right. >> he knows all eyes will be on him and they will actually be saying what did donald trump say tonight? >> any way, let's watch this. since august, donald trump has followed the debate process itself. he has criticized them. let's watch his history with the debates. >> the democrats are all finished with their debates. we're going to go on forever. at some point, you got to start doing other things other than debating. everybody said it couldn't be done. three hours, three and a half, including them, two minutes, i renegotiated it down to two hours so we can get the hell out of here. not bad. first of all, rand paul shouldn't be on the stage. he is number 11. he has 1% in the poll. how he got up here, there is far too many people. three-hours is too long for a

debate. a long time, but even worst for people that have to sit -- if this were a two-hour debate, three hours is unacceptable. >> is this the old dean smith from north carolina four corner plant here. you get the ball, move it around, once you're ahead, you get a ten point lead, seven point lead, is that what he's doing, your guy doing between now and next monday. freeze it? >> the only winner tonight is -- >> you can't answer that. help me with that simple question. >> i think roger ails disrespected donald trump and he really unestimated the power of trump. we're going to see tonight and at the debate who america is most interested in. as you follow social media, he's winning. that's what counts. >> thank you. i did try to over think things. you nailed me. thank you. we'll have to have dinner some night. you're a very interesting guest for you to come here for donald trump. so completely.

thank you. serious note now, before i break, i want to deal with a matter that is entirely my fault. two nights ago, i said ratings were going to suffer in tonight's republican debate with donald trump not there. i said that the debate focused on the other top contenders, senator ted cruz wouldn't be the same drew. i referred to them as the two cuban guys. it had nothing to do with the point i was making, it came up as conda sending and derogatory. it was wrong, incentive and not just to the good cuban american people out there watching who heard about it, who found freedom and pride in this country, important groups out there, which i respect have called me on. have been right to do so. i'm sorry i said it. that's it. i mean it. back to tonight's show. coming up, when donald trump out of tonight's debate, what is the game plan for ted cruz and rest of the candidates tonight. they want to target or turn to

one another. plus, the homestretch for the democrats, our latest nbc poll shows hillary clinton leading bernie sanders in iowa. she's leading. by three points. it's within the margin of error. is he ready to go negative when he has a shot at her. top strategist, and mayor bill de blasio, and much more on the night to come, at republican take the can he bait stage and donald trump does his thing alone. finally, let me finish with this strange night itself. the strangeness of it all. this is hardball, the place for politics. when heartburn hits

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welcome back to "hardball," the lines are getting long at trump's event tonight. he's going rogue and skipping

tonight's fox news debate. cruz sees a time to -- doubled down on his effort, mono. >> leading candidates in the state right now, how about the two of us in a one-on-one debate, mono oe mono. i'm going to propose a venue, western iowa tech, saturday night in sue city, we already have it reversed. we have a venue, we have a time. all we're missing is a candidate. >> well, cruz's super pac has pledged to donate $1 million to trump's charity. they responded to him today. during a radio interview in boston. let's listen. >> once you get that gut rolling from a federal judge and you're

the last man standing in this presidential candidate next to donald trump, we'll be happy to have the debate with you one-on-one, because that's the system works. as it stands right now, we don't even know if ted cruz is legally eligible to run for president of the united states. >> i'm joined right now by hallie jackson. covering the cruz campaign in iowa. it just seems every time they get in a back and forth, that trump has that trump card. it's the she has raised successfully with one-third of the voters about the constitutional eligibility born in canada to run for the presidency. >> yeah, he's playing the canada card. he has done it over and over again over the last three weeks. if you look at the factorability ratings from gallop shows that ted cruz has sunk in his factorability rating. that said, donald trump is using this debate offer, and is sort of pivoting to the question of the eligibility that you're seeing from lipotential no showt

the debate tonight, to go after trump for being in his view scared to come and face, not just the moderators, not the republican field, but as ted cruz has framed it, the people in iowa. they're getting out the message they want to get out and shape the narrative they want to shape it, neither of them have anything to lose by going after each other like this. >> what do think about the -- are they nipping away at the cruz vote right now? >> when you look at the polling, chris, i don't know that you see that. i will tell you on the ground, those two are names that you hear when you talk to pastors or people within the community. i was at a church yesterday, and governor huckabee, he knows what it is like to win an iowa caucus. what else you hear and en eck

dote tal, they want to pick someone that might have a shop, and not just win the caucus, but win it all. i'm not convinced that huckabee or santaruh can do. >> i'm joined by steve king of iowa. congressman from out here. co-chair of cruz's national campaign. give us a sense of this thing. you're from the western part of iowa. i'm trying to figure out the map all the time. further west, more conservative, it east, protestant catholic, is that right about iowa? >> that actually seems to be a fair characterization, chris. especially in northwest iowa, a solid core of solid christian conservatives, constitutional christian conservatives, and then as you go east, it gets dissipated. when you're looking at republicans, i'm finding southeast iowa, lots of good, solid christian conservatives in

southeast iowa as well. >> did you see the rubio ad the other day, i thought it was targeted. it said cruz doesn't tithe? is that a serious thing? i think more monday people do i think 10%. can that be used against a candidate? >> well, that's a new one on me and i know who was doing that. it's huckabee's pac. can you imagine a person who made his living as a pastor, allowing a pac to unleash on someone, pass the collection back to cruz a second time. dig deeper and we'll get off your back. i've never seen anything like that. i know what his numbers are, and they're respectable. we're called upon by christ not to brag about the donations that we give. god sees that, and that's good enough. >> that's like the -- any way, we're watching the trump plane. i don't know if it has his name on it, but it's coming into des

moines. cruz iowa caucus goers is slipping, while trump's is soaring. it's trump 32, cruz 25. trump up eight points in 18 days. cruz is down three. a new gallop poll shows net factorability has fallen 16 points this month. what about this canada thing? your candidate, cruz, says the constitutionality of his ability, eligibility to run for president is settled. it seem likes that's a hard argument to make if there is anybody who disagree with you. >> well, there shouldn't be any disagreement on this. i believe it is settled. first, i would say that cruz's factorability ratings have been very, very high. a little down on that, compared, compare that to the other candidates to get a real picture of that number, chris. on this issue of natural born citizenship, i've been on the judiciary committee for a long time. one of my jacket pocket, i study

these things. only two kinds of citizens. either natural born or naturalized. even donald trump hasn't challenged ted cruz's citizenship. it's clear he has never been naturalized. he was naturally born as an american citizen. that's been true for john mccain, romney, the list goes on. no, not a real question here, except donald trump keeps raising it. because apparently he doesn't want to come face iowa voters and debate the real issues. >> well, there is the question about whether your natural born because of statutory law, i'm not a lawyer, but i understand after the constitution was enacted, it said by law, children of americans become americans automatically, but it's done by statute. the constitution itself says natural born and never clues the children. are you an originalist or a constitution type of guy. >> i'm an original list. i'm not going to -- i do not subscribe to the idea that comes

from the old english common law which is of the soil. it's of your loyalty, of your allegiance. so if he is born of parents that are american citizen parents that with an allegiance to the united states, that's the natural born component. that's how our founding fathers understood it. when they wrote it in the constitution, they were in congress when clarified it was passed. >> thank you. we're watching by the way, congressman, we're watching this theater of donald trump. it's always theatrical, getting off his own plane. what do you make of this, skipping this debate tonight his political theater? i mean, what do you mean? how do you make it? >> you know, donald trump is the first presidential candidate that was a true wwe showman. that's what he constantly does as pulls another stunt and another stunt. i think iowaians are tired of that. they plan to focus on this debate tonight and they will.

and of the 30 to 50% that are undecided doming into this, they wanted to watch this debate carefully. they want to deliberate, talk to the frens and neighbors and come to a conclusion between now and monday night. they don't get to do that. they don't get to compare cruz against donald trump unless he comes to sioux city, so i think his answer was right. absolute his answer and immediate response. i figured donald trump has found a way to dodge this, and had a spokesman to speak on his behalf. donald trump would come to that debate. just a dodge, and iowaians are. >> by the way, catch us at 11:00 p.m. eastern, more coming tonight for full coverage of tonight's debate of course, trump's rival event, trump has arrived in des moines. there he is.

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welcome back to "hardball," the republican primary battle taking center stage tonight. donald trump arrived in des moines, where he'll hold arrive al event opposite tonight's republican debate. but the fight between bernie sanders and hillary clinton is also heating up in iowa. the clinton campaign released a new ad with that of her opponent. it doesn't mention sanders by name, it draws a stark contrast on issues like gun control, and planned parenthood. here's a clip. >> she'll build on obama care, not start over. break through the gridlock. not add to it. defend planned parenthood. not attack it. stand up to the gun lobby, not protect it. lead on foreign policy. not ignore it. >> nbc casey hunt asked sanders

whether he would respond with a negative ad of his own. here's what he had to say. >> are you going to run a negative ad against hillary clinton? >> no. >> what's the difference between a negative and contrast ad? >> well, it depends, number one, whether you're telling the truth or not. i mean, hillary clinton is running an ad which says i'm attacking planned parenthood. i have a 100% lifetime voting record with planned parenthood. they're an excellent and important organization. >> is she lying? >> yeah. i'm not a talking. have you ever heard me attack planned parenthood. have you heard me defend the gun lobby. >> the "washington post" also ripped into sanders today, bernie sanders fiction filled campaign, the post wrote, mr. sanders is not a brave truth teller. he's a politician selling his brand of fiction to the country that wants to buy it. >> sanders responded to that hosted by blumberg politics.

let's listen. >> people are telling us, whether it's the editorial board or anyone else. our ideas are too ambitious. can't happen. too bold. really? well, here's something that is very, very bold. in the last 30 years, there has been a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class and working families of this country. we have to create an economy that works for the middle class and whether the "washington post" likes it or not, that's what i intend to do. >> new nbc wall street journal marchrist poll out of iowa today, shows the race is a dead heat. nearly leads sanders by three points. that's clearly margin of error stuff. 48 to 456789 o'malley still at three. amanda tur kel. you're here a lot. the huff inc. ton post, my pal, an opinion writer, very

distinguished sometimes. colleen mccain, nelson. you're starting here, this is almost been torture for hillary clinton. because they're both right on the fence there. they're within the margin of error. no change since january 1. you have -- in other words, all these days and all this hitchcock suspense and nobody is changing their mind in iowa and hillary is slightly ahead. >> right. it is torture if you're hillary clinton. he has had some wind in his sails, he's taking fire from all sides. including the "washington post" editorial board. bernie sanders is relying on notoriously unreliable voting blocks. he wants first time caucus goers to come out, young votesers to come out. if there is not a higher than expected turnout, he won't win. these aren't people who are super reliable, so that could

hurt bernie sanders. >> there is no fat target for bernie if. yet to hit him on these shots, well, he's not good as he should be on guns. everybody knows he's pro planned parenthood. it is not an attack. it's the establishment. she is turning it into an attack. 100%, you know. >> larry david. >> you know, look, when i looked at that ad and you're right, there aren't that -- so many differences. >> they're going to be together in philly. >> but they're running for the nomination, so you have to bring out these contrasts. in looking at that ad, it made me wonder. this is a primary ad and it's also a general election ad. every time you think of bernie sanders on planned parenthood, foreign policy, gun control, you could also think about any one of the people who are -- who could be the republican nominee.

>> saving money? for hillary. >> if it's way to save money. >> 18 years old, new to the process, believe that bernie sanders a man to the left is against planned parenthood? why would he be? >> i mean, and when he does talk about the establishment, it's not a compliment. it's where the million years and billionaires are. that's a contrast with hillary. i think the big difference isn't policy like you said, left, center left. it's how they believe things can get done. >> "washington post," your paper, you didn't write the editorial you told me just now, i don't want you to defend what you wrote. it's redundant. it doesn't add up. i had that argument the other night who switched from hillary to bernie. how do you pay for free tuition, expensive universities. how do you pay for social

security checks when you retire without a huge tax increase, i mean huge. >> and he said, and senator sanders said yes, i'm going to raise taxes on the middle class. >> how much can you raise them in we're not getting rid of the military. >> that's why our editorial was so hard on bernie sanders. you know, we're taking him seriously. if you really think you're going to do this, then you owe the american people an explanation of how you're going to do this. it's not enough -- >> do you ever get that from reagan? >> that was then. this is now. >> i mean, reagan promised more military spending, more ships, 600 ship navy, lower taxes, and getting rid of the deficit. >> there is inn finlour top stod trump counter event in tonight's debate, auditorium filled, did he win the fight, did he make the debate table he was going to

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welcome back to "hardball." back with the round table. start with colleen. what is donald trump's magic. i thought it was sort of a nationalist tick if you don't like it. is it magic, is it the show, the next carnival performance? why is he able to do what he's doing? >> apparently his showmanship appeals to his suppters.

you see everything he does works. >> i'm going to shoot someone on fifth. >> exactly. it should not work for him to boycott a debate. you saw people waiting out in the cold. >> are we so jaded, we want something different? we want something else? >> you had amarosa on earlier, i interviewed her the saturday after that debate in august, because she's the trump whisperer. and i asked her to explain something to me. she said you have to throw out everything understand about politics and when you're thinking about him, he is a reality. >> do you know her well? >> i just met her the first time. >> she's a hell of a surrogate. >> reality television has taken over america. he's the king of reality television. when you have the king of reality television going into presidential politics, you have to look at him and think of him

in terms of reality television. all the rules are out the window. if he wants to call somebody and -- >> could howie mandell do it? >> sure, but he's not running for president. donald trump is. >> he's going to have the hardest time turning out his voters. these people don't normally vote. they're saying they're not voting for anyone but donald trump. are they just fan, because he's a reality television star, or are they actually going to vote. >> all these answers. crackle of victory or defeat. a man at that, jonathan, colleen mccain nelson. bill de blasio is my guest. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. raise your expectations. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, control is possible. . we're back. the fight for iowa between bernie sanders and hillary clinton is fierce, of course. the rhetoric getting tougher. the new nbc wall street journal

pole with clinton at 48, sanders at 45. it could end in a photo finish. whoever wins, wins. new york mayor bill de blasio is heading out to iowa himself to campaign for hillary clinton this weekend. he was her campaign manager 2,000 campaign back in new york. stumping for her now. do you have your speech ready? what is the case for secretary hillary clinton to be the next president of the united states? >> simple, chris. we have to restore the american middle class, working people are hurting. we need a different approach in washington. higher wages. better benefits. paid sick leave, paid family leave. the kinds of things that will change the lives of people. taxes on the wealthy that allow us to do some of the things we need to do in this nation. she has the right platform and knows how to get those things done. right now, working people in this country want a champion who is going to go to washington and achieve those kind of progressive changes and she has

proven she knows how to do it. >> i think your family helped at the end, saw something that looked like harmony to them, of course, jim kenny in my city, philadelphia, if you talk to the pollsters, this a left wind direction right now. how does hillary clinton meet that as a woman of the center left, i call her secenter left. >> a real progressive trend going on in the country. the discussion of income and equality has changed over the course of the year. people want to see a real change, and they certainly are increasingly troubled by the concentration of wealth and power in this country. i think she can speak to that very, very powerfully because of her history. she took on the health insurance companies in 1993, 1994, one of the most dramatic struggles we've ever seen. she led that effort. what she has done throughout her

life on behalf of women and families, what she and her husband did on family and medical leave. she has a history of getting to these core economic issues and making change. this is >> from the male side of things, why do you think the chance, the strike opportunity to elect a woman president after we have elected an african-american president. why doesn't that grab young people as much as you and i thought it would have and has seemed to do in the past. >> your thoughts. >> one is the right moment in our history. people are more ready than ever. two, maybe it doesn't feel like it's grabbing people but when the real moment is there, when there's a democratic nominee and hilla hillary's that no, ma'am mine, nominee, i think it's going to

energize people quite a bit. it will be is values and the vision. you remember 1992, is the economy stupid. i think that message, that reality is stronger than ever right now. this is going to be an election about economic reality and the fact that she's a woman and understands what working women go through, what women struggle with all the time is only going to add to her ability to be a compelling leader and spokesperson on that issue. >> i always thought women are better. in many families, i don't know about yours, you got a strong wife. i do too. they know the health costs. they know what's covered by which policies. they know all the this stuff about we know to lock the door at night. they know so much more. thank you. i hope you can do our show when you're out west with us. >> i would love to. thank you. >> joining me right now is the senior advisor of bernie sanders

campaign. i want to give you a full shot at this. the hillary clinton ad about planned parenthood and your candidate, go at it. >> well, it's full of distortions. bernie sanders has 100% lifetime voting record on the issue of choice. bernie sanders has a d minus record is ridiculous. she's going to engage on foreign policy and not ignore it and show leadership on it. she could have shown a lot of foreign leadership if she voted against iraq. i would say one more thing about that ad. if the fundamental problem with the candidate is credibility, you shouldn't attack your opponent on things that aren't true. >> how would you describe this relationship at planned parenthood. a clean shot for you here. bernie sanders and planned parenthood. >> someone that has a lifelong

record of supporting that organization. making sure a woman's right to choose is fully protected. to suggest that somehow he is soft on these issues is not true. >> how do you -- i had one of your supporters from south carolina, a great recruit for you guys. you picked him up on the other side. i said how do you pay for big checks and retirement checks for social security, fully paid tuition major schools like michigan and wisconsin and bernie. that's great deal. also, health care for life. government paid health care. how do you do it all with the evidence we have now. we going to reduce the military somehow. what are we going to shut back onto pay for those new benefits, those new rights. >> well, we're going to have to do two things. we need more revenue in the federal government. it will come by asking the wealthiest americans who pay no taxes.

we have to increase the revenue that comes into the treasury. we do need new priorities in america. the united states spends as much on its military budget as the next nine nations combined. we have to make sure that we invest in our people. saying that kids should go to public colleges and universities and tuition free and pay for that by putting a tax on stock transactions. it's about time wall street that got bailed out by the american taxpayers does its fair share to help the country move ahead. >> you're doing great. your candidate is doing with even better. thank you for joining us. i have no idea how to call iowa. when we return let me finish with a strange night tonight and to be blunt the strangest of it all. you're watching "hardball." every day you read headlines about businesses being hacked and intellectual property being stolen. that is cyber-crime and it affects each and every one of us.

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let me finish with this strange night and the strangeness of it all. the first moments of life are the kennedy-nixon debate. after months on the schedule they skipped and held their own event that night. that's the strange thing about 2016. it's coming to us as another part of the whole thing we have

been watching, another act and a carnival we're going to. how does donald trump match the thrill. what can he do on stage? the guests of honor at an event robbed of its honor by the one guest everyone had come to see. prepare yourself. trump has said his fans will stick to him even if he shot someone on fifth avenue. we're getting closer and closer to a performance art almost that wild. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. come back after the debate for

thea agnalysis as the republica debate without donald trump goes on. all in with chris hayes starts right now. the could my nation of dam pain that's turned conventional wisdom on its head. i speak of this. you're looking at drake university in des moines, iowa where donald trump event is getting under way. in one hour the gop front-runner is scheduled toak