donald trump has chosen not to attend this evening's presidential debate. what message do you think that sends to the voters of iowa? >> iowa in 2017 will not be flyover country, it will be fly-to country. i'm a maniac and everyone on this stage is stupid, fat, and ugly. and, ben, you're a terrible surgeon. now that we've gotten the donald trump portion out of the way -- [ laughter ] >> chris, let's begin by being year this campaign is about. it's not about donald trump. he's an entertaining guy. the greatest show on earth.

>> i kind of missed donald trump, he was a teddy bear to me. we had such a loving relationship. ♪ baby, i have no story to be told but i'm gonna ♪ make your head burn, think of me in the depp depths of your despair ♪ >> this is an honor. this is a a really honor. i didn't want to be here, i have to be honest. i wanted to be about five minutes away and i've enjoyed that. i've enjoyed that. all the online polls said i've done very well with that, with the debates and i've had a tick with it. but you have to stick up for your rights. when you're treated badly, you have to stick up for your rights. you have to do it. >> oh, manyy goodness, good morning, it's friday, january 29. welcome to "morning joe." what a night. with us on set, white house correspondent for the huffington post sam stein.

we've got former communications director for george w. bush, nicolle wallace, former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner, and in des moines, iowa, managing editor of bloomberg politics, mark halperin. in washington, abc news political commentator and npr senior analyst cokie roberts is with us this morning. good to have you all. >> what did you think? >> wow. yeah, i think that it worked for donald, again. that's what i thought. i mean -- >> and i thought the debates were as steve was saying before the debates were what they used to be before the age of trump descended on us in the 757. kind of dull. >> it was incredible. >> i didn't see -- mark halperin, before we dive into your opinion and cokie robert's opinion, i think it's sound and fury signifying nothing and a big wash because i didn't see

anybody -- and most of us here agree with that, i didn't see anybody step out and fill the void that trump left. mark halperin? >> i agree. there was a huge opportunity for someone to really dominate the night. i think the three people had who had the best night -- jeb bush probably had his best debate, playing more for new hampshire than for iowa and i think senator rubio and senator cruz were find but neither of them had their best night and neither stepped up and asserted themselves as, hey, in a trumpless universe, i'm king of the hill. i think it's a non-event and trump showed he can take risks and not just survive but thrive. >> the mechanics of his producing of the entire night were master full. >> interestingly enough, i think rubio and cruz -- rubio on the rise in a lot of polls -- i thought they had their worst nights last night. i don't think it's a close call in either one of them. it didn't matter in the after

debate because every single frank luntz focus group has had marco rubio win withing but cokie roberts, what's your take away? >> i think the winner of the debate itself was megyn kelly. she was very forceful and very good and didn't let all of the stuff around her get in her head. but donald trump won the night. i don't think there's any question about that. and the real question is whether he can get all of the people who are supporting him to the caucuses on monday night because most of his voters -- many of his voters say they've never been to a caucus and, you know, everybody who's been in iowa knows that that's not the easiest thing on earth to do, to get people there. but he's masterful, as mika said. he dominated the night. >> so nicolle, this is what usually happens. i'm at home and i'm spending time with my kids, mika's kids are older so she gets them when she can, right? so mika watches news while she's

waiting. and so i'll be, like, talking to jack and mika will go "you've got to turn on cnn! you've got to turn on msnbc." and i'm like i can't, i'm here with jack, we're working a lego. >> but you're glad you did. >> but last night she was "you have to turn on the tv." so kate was there, jack was there, we were going over home work and we turned on the tv and i'm glad i did. it was trump's plane landing in des moines. and i swear to god -- >> it was unbelievable. >> it was like the pope had landed with the middle east peace pact to end 3,000 years of war. the grand spectacle of it all was every bit as remarkable as the story heilemann told in iowa -- >> and he planned it. i was talking to him and he said i'm going to land exactly at this time and come on stage exactly at this time and all

those things played to perfection and had cameras pitched all night long. >> he doesn't have a team of like 500, he has a team of like three. it was masterful. he knew in the morning we were calling, we were calling fox and saying what's going to happen? he said i'm going to do what i'm going do, i'm going to fly in at this time and everybody's camera is going to be on me. >> he did the same thing at that rally in arizona. he had the whole crowd in the hangar, he descends like he's the pope or the king or something -- >> he's donald trump, actually. >> everybody thinks he just sort of bumbles into this stuff. the whole thing has been planned. >> you know what? i was glad to hear him say -- i think you played it already -- that he didn't want to be there. i think that was important. ty think to his supporters he can do no wrong but to people that had hoped he would have found a way to be on that stage

it was important to acknowledge this wasn't where he ended up and to offer the explanation on the top that this was him add mering to one of his own principles. that was an important thing to say. >> that's great. do you agree with cokie that trump won the night? >> i read you my classified analysis from my father. he's so fired up, his supporters, one by standing up for himself -- >> oh, my brother, holy cow. >> and then i think by acknowledging that that wasn't his first choice where he wanted to be, it didn't cost him nick with people that -- >> my brother was texting me throughout the day and it reminded me of me asking my brother when i was four and he was santa "where's santa right now?" >> he left the bridesmaids waiting at the wedding. >> it's not unprecedented for candidates to skip a debate because it works better

politically. and contrary to what trump said about how he won all six debates, he didn't win all six debates. >> he had some great once. >> he's talking about every single poll that shows -- >> well, that's different. >> mark and then sam. mark? >> look, here's three things that trump showed in what he did with this debate gambit. he's willing to take risks. no one else in the field takes as many risks as he does. >> that was risky. >> two, he thinks 10 steps ahead. people, as you just said, people think he bumbles into this stuff. he anticipate what is's going to happen. thinks it through, understands how other people react, no one is his ghequal in that. and he's willing to adjust. he has incredible media savvy and says "okay, i need to recalibrate this." this was a dramatic example of that but everyday he's doing those three things better than anybody else. that's what will make him hard to stop. >> exactly. >> and, sam stein, it's all

calculated. that's the thing they don't understand. we're talking yesterday morning not only about when the plane would land because we thought he'd end up in the debate, he said "i'm going to walk out on the stage at 9:15, 15 minutes after the debate starts, that i'll be fixed on the podium for 15 minutes." then when we said what's the story, why did you not go? at the end of the day? he said i was driving across iowa, somebody read me the press release and he said i can't go. he turned to his staff and said well, i guess i can't do the debate. he said it would so undercut who i am for my supporters. he said to me your brother would hate me if i backed down like that. nicolle's father would hate me. many i supporters -- he said -- but it was all very planned. all very thought out. >> he's a pro, obviously, at this, right? but one thing that really good

politicians are good at is playing the victim and i don't mean that pejoratively in any sense of the word. but for a billionaire man with his own jet who's leading the polls to then come out of this as the victim is really remarkable and to turn fox news -- i think it's masterful. the thing that struck me about the debate, not that he won it or lost it because you can't lose a debate you don't participate in, but how much the event has been shaped by him. with him off the stage, the conversation is still about him, about carpet bombing isis, but surveilling muslims, building waltz. amazing. >> what about illegal immigration? it was -- even in his presence, the policies were the policies -- >> it was trump's night on every network across the board. a short drive away from last night's debate donald trump gathered supporters to raise money for veterans groups.

he launched a web site yesterday, donaldtrumpforvets.com for people to make donations with the donald trump found dwags the promise of 100% going to vets. listing the names of wealthy friends on stage and veterans talking about adjusting to life in the states and calling people and asking for money, not for his campaign but to help others. and trump still found time to talk politics. >> you look at a guy like jeb bush, he's taken -- low energy -- he's taken 120 -- extremely low. i shouldn't say it, he's debating right now. maybe he's doing great. he's probably looking for me. he's saying "has anyone seen sflump where's trump? where he? >> where is he?" i won't be doing polls tonight. usually i'd like to get up and do poll, even mike would say why do you keep doing those polls? i say because they're so good. ivanka is going to have a baby in two weeks.

[ applause ] we have a hospital all lined up and you know what. i love the people of iowa but i said ivanka, it would be so great if you had your baby in iowa. it would be so great. i'd definitely win. this is a special night for me and i had no idea this was going to happen. we started out literally 24 hours ago, maybe less. we had no idea and we went out. we set up the web site, i called some friends and we just cracked, the sign was just given, we just cracked $6 million, right? $6 million. [ cheers and applause ] >> as for debate -- >> it's interesting, he talked about -- cokie, he talked about jeb bush low energy. it's very interesting, we got a glimpse into what this race would look like without donald trump in it in the debate it's a race jeb bush would win because jeb bush clearly had his best night last night and i don't care what the supporters say.

for neutral observers, he was head and shoulders above everybody else. >> jeb bush had a good night. it's not good enough. he embraced his family, especially his mother but has just been too far behind the catch up. what's interesting here in washington now is this business of donald trump adjusting. the political people on capitol hill are beginning to get behind donald trump. part of that is that they hate ted cruz. but partover it is they think that cruz would just absolutely destroy the party for decades to come and they think trump will quote/unquote adjust. and that means do more what they think they want him to do once it gets to the general election. >> isn't that fascinating? you sense that on capitol hill that the people who even -- i won't name his name but i spoke to one of the most preeminent republicans over the past 30

years. >> name him. >> i can't. >> okay. >> i said listen, i know you're angry at him, i know him, if you'd like to pick up the phone and talk to him or have him meet, probably it would be good because he could win this thing and you guys are going to end up being together. and the guy said "with all due respect, i think if i saw him i'd punch him in the face." >> well, that's a problem. >> but apparently -- >> i've talked to many operatives, republicans and lawmakers on capitol hill who feel differently, who say they think it's an act in some respects. they think he'll turn in the general election if he makes it there. >> well, of course. >> of course. but also he's worked in washington as a non-political skbity for quite a while so they think he knows the game and they think he can operate within the confines. it's a gamble -- >> and steve, because you're a new yorker and you've dealt with these things.

what i said when trump was on the other day, he has worked with every mayor from john lindsay to koch to ding kin, to giuliani to bloomberg. now de blasio with completely different ideologies and he somehow managed to get on their good side and win in every case. drive up the west side highway and see 12 trump buildings. >> well, i think, joe, honestly on that -- >> or he thrived through all of that. >> he succeeded now say he ended up on good terms is an overstatement. >> that's not what it's about. >> he dealt with them in one of the toughest cities in america to do what he did. >> but in some cases he took more credit than perhaps he deserved for some project they worked on. >> what a shock. >> but look i was in washington yesterday and i think everything you say is true but i think

you're asking people in washington to choose between essentially the devil, i.e. ted cruz, and some guys who's -- >> they truly hate ted cruz. >> so you give them that choice, you're not offering kasich or these other guys, i think they're finding -- thinking they can work with trump. >> the thing that mika and cokie have eluded alluded to and othe alluded to it, you have a guy who when he wins the primary if he does -- let's just say -- he's going to move to the middle. >> he said it himself. >> we have major drama to show. peopleening to lead the stage. we'll to that. in financial news, asian markets jumped after japan's decision to adopt a negative interest rate. at last check, u.s. stock futures were up.

in california -- >> what does that mean? that's unbelievable. what's going on? >> japan is obviously somewhat moribund and they're trying to restart their economy. the idea of a negative interest separate that essentially you charge banks to put money on deposit with the central bank to force them to try to go out and lend it to get businesses going. that's the short version of that. >> unbelievable. it's not a lost decade, it's a lost quarter century. >> well, it's a lost quarter century there but what's going on in europe is a cousin of that and here when we had our zero interest rates and our qe, they're part of a picture of a slow global economy. in california, authorities arrested a woman who is believed to have helped three inmates escape from jail. the woman taught english as a second language at the orange county jail. she's accused of providing inmates with maps and possibly tools. all three inmates have been on the run since last friday. >> we do one more of those and it's a reality show. >> no, please stop.

it's been almost two weeks since "washington post" reporter jason rezaian was released from an iranian jail and yesterday during the opening of the "post's" new headquarters, he talked briefly about his time in iran. >> for much of the 18 months i was in prison, my iranian interrogators told me the "washington post" did not exist. that no one knew of my plight and that the united states government would not lift a finger for my release. today i'm here in this room with the very people who helped prove the iranians wrong in so many ways. >> wrong in so many ways. mika, fred ryan and of course his brother were in constant contact with everybody. we never talked to fred where he didn't bring him up. we never talked to so many of our friends at the "post" where they didn't bring him up. talk about a family that fought right hell for him, it was

moving through the entire process. >> and a long road ahead. >> his brother -- >> what a great guy, yeah. finally, another classic rock trailblazer has passed away. paul kantner, the founding member, singer and guitarist for jefferson airplane has died. the group scored hits with "somebody to love" and "white rabbit." five of their seven members. the. >> that's three in a couple of weeks. obviously jefferson airplane, one of the most important bands in the late '60s and the band that scared the held out of parents. [ laughter ] >> that's his legacy. >> yeah, like "white rabbit" and everything. there were others that were like okay, but jefferson airplane really scared parents but had

some of the greatest music of the late '60s and, of course, own owned a definitive spot at woodstock. >> i don't think my parents knew who they were. >> "somebody to love" remains one of the greatest rock songs of the era. >> absolutely. still ahead on "morning joe," two of the candidates for president, governor chris christie and huckabee are here. plus -- >> have you been here long? >> been here since friday. just decided to stay, spur of the moment on sunday night, stick around until the caucuses are over. >> sleeping on floor, couches? >> yup, floors, couches, motels, wherever, we make it work. >> kasie hunt checks out bernie sanders' iowa headquarters and catches up with the candidate himself and bernie's wife jane sanders will be our guest live this morning. guess where she's going to be

from? burlington. burlingt burlington, iowa. this monday we'll be in iowa at java joes in des moines for complete coverage of the caucuses and join our live coverage, have a cup of coffee this morning with us. our past audiences prove you never know who will show up and sit there with you. let's bring in bill with a check on the forecast. how is iowa looking? >> are you going to be in iowa tuesday also? >> might be. >> that depends on what you'll tell us. >> i could use blizzard coverage help. that would -- >> i think we'll be back in the new york studios. >> a bliss and? >> yeah. it looks pretty rough. let me take you through it. the story that will affect ay air iowa is coming on the next couple days and will make its way across the country. let me take you to the weekend forecast. we're getting a nice january thaw, texas, oklahoma. not bad in the great lakes and northeast. some snow showers today. we jump into 4040s as we go

through saturday? the east. st. louis is 59 degrees. so a nice warmup as we go through sunday and monday through the east, melting snow from the past. but that storm in the west we'll have to track. by the time we get to monday, heavy snow will break out in areas of colorado. notice iowa should be just fine monday. late monday night into tuesday morning is when the snow and ice will move in. so it looks like on tuesday that storm system will be moving up anywhere for the most part just to the south of des moines near st. louis. the backside is where the heavy snow will be. they could have strong enough winds to deal with blizzard like conditions but even in areas of kansas, nebraska, wisconsin and possible tornados on tuesday in the middle of the country. i know a lot of people in iowa weren't directly affected by the storm but indirectly they'll think about it and they'll have to get to the grocery stores because tuesday doesn't look like a travel day at all in the midwest. more updates throughout the day today and next week on "morning

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>> why isn't that a negative snad. >> does it mention hillary clinton? >> nope. >> does it have any mention of hillary clinton? >> no. >> it is true that wall street spends dozens and dozens and dozens on politicians? it is true. >> that was a new ad for the sanders campaign and his explanation as why it doesn't come as an attack ad.

it comes as a new monmouth university poll shows hillary clinton with an edge of bernie sanders. >> meanwhile, hillary clinton and hillary clinton held a flurry of events. candidate clinton touted the achievability and concreteness of her agenda while the former president derided his wife's main opponent for labelling her as part of the establishment. >> everything she ever touched she made better. and so next time you hear somebody say she's part of the establishment and that planned parenthood and the human rights campaign fund are, too, because they support her because of what she's done, you ought to think about that. you ought to think about how she was the only candidate running who went to wall street before the crash. >> we have two, do. we don't need another gridlock political debate that divides us and avoids getting something done.

so i intend to tell you exactly what i want to do and how i will pay for it. because i want you to know that. those of you who are already going to caucus for me, i thank you. for others still making up their mind, go to my web site, hillaryclinton.com. look at how i want to do and how i will pay for it. because i want to have an election on in that agenda. >> it's very interesting. let's talk about the clintons for a second. mark halperin, a tough gnarl ar in the "new york times" about bill clinton not having the impact on voters he had before. magic seems to be missing and about how his approval rating has dropped from 50% to 39% over the past month or two since the trump attacks. is he going to have the impact that he had on, let's say, barack obama's convention in '12? what are you seeing on the ground? >> i saw him do an event in waverley yesterday. it was a college, pretty big crowd and he was not his best.

i thought he was better in new hampshire when i saw him last week. the "new york times" story by pat healy is accurate. there's a little bit of a rambling quality to his presentation now. the best moments, when he's selling hillary clinton's record, when he has the crowd engaged. but there are a lot of moments where he wanders around on different things, talks about his own record but i think you have to compare him to the alternative which is to say he's throughout helping her build support, he's throughout helping her strategize. he's not at his peak but he is helping her and he's very engaged. he's very engaged and he understands the stakes. a loss in iowa, he understands, would set this race in a much different direction than a win would. >> cokie roberts, we haven't had a chance to talk to you since the bernie surge over the past couple weeks. what's your take in iowa and where do you see it going right now? >> it's tremendously important for both candidates and i think the bernie surge is absolutely real. what it reminds me most of is 1972 when ed muskie had the

support of nerve the leadership, all of the politicians and there was no excitement around it and the kids were all more mcgovern and they managed to excite the rest of the electorate and he got the nomination. then we know what happened. and i think the same thing would happen with bernie sanders. are he's saying this week "yes, i will raise taxes." republicans have cut that ad already. >> bernie sanders was also in iowa where he continued to rail against what he called clinton's inconsistency on certain issues. >> it's great to be against the wall after you vote for the war. sit great to be for gay rights after you insult the entire gay community by supporting doma. [ cheers and applause ] it is great to finally kicking and screaming come out against

the tpp, but where were you on all of the other trade agreements? so what all of this is about is that what leadership means is not simply following the majority. >> and cokie just to follow up on your 1972 analogy, that is george mcgovern versus, again, an establishment-laden ed muskie. >> right. that's exactly right. and then 49 states later the democratic party was trying to figure out what to do next and i think there's a lot of concern the same situation could happen here. >> joining us from des moines, iowa, msnbc political correspondent kasie hunt. kasie? >> good morning. to cokie's point, the tax foundation has a new analysis out of bernie sanders' tax plan saying that it would cost $13.6 trilli

trillion. so not only would it raise taxes, it would raise taxes significantly. they say it's basically the opposite of donald trump's $12 trillion tax cut. but i have to say, the reason hillary clinton is going after bernie sanders? this way, and it looks like he's hitting back at her, is because he's really come so far doing so well in the polls. it's worth remembering just how far he has come. it was classic bernie sanders. >> we here in this race to win. >> reporter: his no-frills announcement in april just 10 minutes long which is still longer than a lot of people thought he'd last. >> bernie sanders is a socialist for god's sakes. >> a thick brooklyn accent? he's 73, he looks 91. >> he's a loon, isn't he? >> reporter: but by summer what seemed crazy was the sheer sides of his crowds. online, people were feeling the bern, art, stamps, t-shirts, a silhouette of his hairline?

>> you're feeling the bern? >> i'm hot, yes. >> reporter: in the fall, the fever cooled. clinton showed up ready for the first debate and bernie sanders gave her a pass. >> the american people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails. >> reporter: but on the ground in iowa, something was happening. >> here in des moines, we've seen the yard signs here for a long time that have outnumbered hillary and a lot of other candidates. >> excellent, that's what we like to hear. do you know what your precinct is and when to be there? >> if bernie sanders is going to beat hillary clinton in iowa, it's because of volunteers like these who basically live here. have you been here long? >> yup. been here since friday: >> reporter: now bernie sanders has to decide how far he's willing to go to get the win. are you going to run a negative ad against hillary clinton? >> no. >> how does wall street get away with it? millions in campaign contributions and speaking fees. >> reporter: that new ad doesn't name hillary clinton but it's a departure from the message that won him so much praise. the question, now whether

sanders can turn inspiration into victory. i went back and watched the punditry when you first announced on the capital steps. >> and what did they say? did they predict we'd be neck in neck? >> somebody called you a loon, somebody said you were crusty. 75 but look 91. >> [ laughter ] those were the nice comments. then there was really some not nice comments, right? >> reporter: what do you say to those pundits? >> you know what i also said? i don't know if you heard. i said "don't underestimate me." don't underestimate me. >> reporter: we're at the point where both camps are privately saying that they think hillary clinton has a little bit of an edge going into these caucuses but bernie sanders seems to be having the time of his life, you know what a difference that can make. >> thank you so much, kasie, kasie hunt, thank you. >> can i ask mark halperin a quick question? >> a quick one. we have so much to get. >> to mark, i have to tell you from a network executive high up

in another network that we all know that asked when we were going to start talking about what most of us around this table are hearing from multiple sources and i'm sure you are, too, that the hillary clinton investigation of the fbi is far more progressed and mika and i have been hearing it from the top officials in the obama administration for actually several months now and we can't go to a meeting in washington where we don't hear that. i'm sure you're hearing the same thing. what is -- what are your -- all of our sources high up are -- and nicolle is hearing the same thing, that this investigation is far more advanced than we the public knows. what are you hearing? >>. >> well, there are three things people are keying off of. there's a lot of chatter amongst fbi agents, many of whom have never been big fans of the clinton bus a lot of fbi agents seem to be saying something is happening here. from a legal point of view, you look at the recent developments

we've talked about on the program, it's hard to see how the judgment, the fbi, doesn't want to interview secretary clinton. that interalone short of an indictment, short of anything else, would be a huge political development and undermine confidence in some democrats in the notion of going forward with secretary clinton and the last thing is there are people in the white house talking about this. it's not clear whether they know what's happening or their intuition but the body language among some obama administration officials is this is more serious and something is going to happen. again, the timing of it could be if not cataclysmic pretty bad for secretary clinton if senator sanders is still alive. >> cokie roberts, because it's about hunk, i discount anything i here about republicans or democrats that would want to run against hillary clinton if she were indicted but i'm hearing from people in the obama administration and law enforcement people more and more that something may be coming down the road. but let's talk about timing. there's no way james comey or anybody could have an

investigation before, say, new hampshire, without looking/verdictlooking ing overtly political, right? >> that's right. and if this is happening, they don't seem to be telling the president because he is getting more full? in his support of hillary clinton. but cokie, were i the president of the united states -- and god help america if that were to ever happen -- >> yes. >> if i knew my justice department were about to put an indictment on hillary clinton and i couldn't do anything about it i would be more supportive of hillary clinton than ever before and tell america how much i love her and have confidence in her. >> i don't think i would do that. but then, you know, you and i would probably be different presidents. >> for your sake, i would hope so. >> but the fact is that i think that -- i think if an indictment were going to come down that it would have happened sooner. look, if there's an indictment, it's over. she's out. and then guy in find the "break

glass in emergency" button and then you see joe biden. >> we'll talk to steve rattner about this after the break. we'll be right back. >> we're going to also have bernie sanders' wife on the show. jane sanders joining us from iowa. plus, donald trump wasn't in last night's debate. and look at this map of people googling him. everything in red is where people were googling trump. yeah. i think he won the night. we'll be right back. want to get their hands on. if they could ever catch you.

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think of it as a seven seat for an action packed thriller.

coming up, we'll break down the big moments from last night's debate. without donald trump, it turned out to be a tough night for ted cruz, just ask his hometown paper. >> and steve rattner, really quickly, let's follow up on what we were talking about before about hillary. this could also be the -- the fbi if they're spending more time, it could just be them covering themselves to make sure if they don't indict they're not attacked for political reasons because you'll hear petraeus, petraeus, petraeus. they could just be covering themselves. >> well, look, james comey by all accounts is a completely

straight shooter who has a job, a mission, and he does it. so i think they will go through the process. all i'm trying to say is it's still relatively earl will any the process. they have, based on hillary clinton's last statement, not interviewed her. they can't have a -- they put a file together to interview her, then it goes to the justice department. in the case of petraeus, it was a year, year and a half, maybe even two years between when it got there and when they reached an agreement with her. >> so what you're saying is she might not be indicted until she's president of the united states? >> until inauguration day. >> when you say something might happen between now and new hampshire -- >> i didn't say new hampshire. i said it would be irresponsible for the fbi to interview her because people are saying when is she going to be interviewed to even interview her or do anything before new hampshire. >> well, i think they have to -- i think they have to operate exactly by the book because otherwise they're going to get attacked from both sides and i'm in favor of that. but the last thing i'd say -- and this could be the whole show

so we won't do it now -- because there was this long piece on petraeus in the "washington post" the other day that went piece by piece and i think when you line the two up, you would find significant factual differences in favor of hillary clinton between those two cases. >> all right. >> all right, "morning joe" will be back in a minute. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪

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>> chris, i was mentioned in that question. >> your name wasn't mentioned, ted. >> i think your name wasn't mentioned -- >> your question said -- >> sir, i think the -- the question was about -- it's not my question you get a chance to respond to, it's his answer. you don't get 30 sends to respond to me. >> your question was you have disagreed -- >> you don't get 30 seconds to respond to me. i'd like to go on -- sir, i know you like to argue about the rules but we'll conduct the debate. >> i would note the last four questions have been rand, please attack ted, marco, please attack ted, jeb, please attack ted, chris, please attack ted.

[ boos ] >> it is a debate, sir. >> no, a debate is a policy issue but i will say this. gosh, if you guys ask one more mean question i may have to leave the stage. >> wow. >> i just wouldn't mess with chris wallace. anyway, with us now we've got a member of the "wall street journal" editorial board and host of opinion journal on "wall street journal" live. >> good to have you on board this morning. good morning. >> mary, a big night last night to sort of sort through. what was your take away? >> without trump there, you can actually have a real debate about issues so that's the first big take away. the second is that this is a far stronger field than it was back in 2012. i know that's a low bar. >> it's an impressive field. >> the third thing i found very surprising is that ted cruz was trying to play donald trump on tv. >> he was. >> and he was supposed to really take over the stage last night in the absence of donald trump: >> he didn't seem to step up,

did he? >> he didn't. coming from a low bar, it was jeb bush's best debate yet. >> yeah. sam, we've said that already. it was -- it seemed to be more clear-cut than most of the debates that it was jeb's night. i don't know what ted cruz was trying to do. like you said, maybe he was trying to be a poor man's donald trump but it did not work judging from all the reviews we've heard. >> well, it's simultaneously dorky and fascinating to wonder what it would be like for jeb had trump never been in there because you can see psychologically how uplifted he was by trump not being on stage calling him low energy. and it was interesting on a substantive level, too, because the lines on the immigration debate, they had been essentially with trump on stage how big will the wall be, right? and without him on stage, you had a split between jeb and marco rubio over respective plans on citizenship and just

the whole debate has shift bud, of course, trump isn't going anywhere. he's just gone for one night. >> jeb's been consistent about immigration reform. >> he wasn't drowned out. >> no, he wasn't. the debate between, i think, jeb and marco, was a little false because ultimately they both agree on what the solution should be. no one will deport -- >> but the false part of it is jeb doesn't deny that his position has changed. marco does keep denying that all of his positions change. >> that's right. and that has -- i think that hurt him last night. >> or not. >> let's show the clip right now. >> here's the clip. >> when you led the charge with the gang of eight, i supported it because you asked me to and you asked people to support -- you shouldn't cut and run. let's stick with it. that's what happened. he cut and run. that's a tragedy. i wrote a book about this called "immigration wars" you can get it at $2.99 on amazon, it's not a best-seller, i can promise you. it's affordable for everybody.

we should have a path to legal status for 12 million people here illegally. >> it's interesting you mention the book. that was the book you changed your position on immigration. you used to support a path to immigration. >> so did you, marco. >> mark halperin, i've been talking about what a good week marco has had. that was a pretty devastating moment for marco rubio last night. he looked -- well, i'll let you tell me what he looked like. jeb looked like a grown-up. >> i think three big questions come out of last night's debate for the contours of this race, not just in iowa and beyond. one is, can trump win here and if he does are cruz and trump correct that if trump wins here he's effectively going to be unstoppable barring some unforeseen change. two two, is there an establishment person who's going to step up. marco rubio now potentially comes out of iowa a big story

and may wipe away jeb bush's strong performance because he may go into new hampshire as the establishment alternative and the establishment if trump wins here will be looking if somebody in a hurry. and the third question is if ted cruz loses here, is he done? can he fight on? i thought before this debate and before the last two days that he could. he would still be the main trump alternative. i think ted cruz had to worry his finish here, whether it's first or second, is strong enough to be in the game. >> steve rattner, i'll just say it, it's what we get paid to do give our opinions. like john madden looking like a quarterback that's had a bad half. i don't think you can look at ted cruz's last two and a half, three weeks and not say it's been devastating. here's a guy who came to washington who's always dominated every scene he's been in, since donald trump brought up the canada deal through last night's debate, the "des moines

register" says a tough night for cruz. it's been a brutal three weeks for ted cruz and i follow up with what mark just said. i would have said before he can finish second and move forward. it's going to be tougher for him, too, with this -- he's staggering to the finish line here. >> i agree and monday may turn out to be the cue oup degras. but you said last night trump's absence liberated people to be themselves and george bush had a gad night and so on and so forth. but how do you see -- if you see -- a way for these guys to break through the trump overwhelm magazine. is this just a game of maybe jeb did okay or is it really some possibility of something happening? >> you have large portions of the voting electorate that haven't made up their mind in iowa or in new hampshire you've seen rubio have momentum in iowa and kasich have momentum in new hampshire so we don't know that much until people actually go to

the polls. i care less about the tactics and more about the ideas here. what most of these guys were talking about on stage is pragmatic immigration reform which would be great for economic growth: they're talking about platforms that would grow the economy, get us out of this 2% really horrific growth that we've had for the last seven years and they're talking about a more muscular foreign policy give than we do face threats not just abroad but that we face threats here at home in all of these states. so i was heartened by last night's debate and we'll see what the voters say in iowa. >> very soon we'll see. mary, thank you so much, mark halperin, thank you as well. still ahead, president sial candidates chris christie and huckabee join us live. plus, the zika virus is stinging latin america with devastating results. we'll ask dr. anthony fauci if

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coming up in the next hour, governor chris christie joins us. also huckabee who capped his undercard debate with an appearance at donald trump's event. we'll also bring in chuck todd and the "washington post" eugene robinson. also we'll be at java joes, of course, for the caucuses. but sunday night at 6:00 iowa time -- >> oh, my gosh. >> joe, some pre-caucus live music. joe and his band will be

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relationship during these debates. i miss him. i wish he was here. >> you said on the issue of people that are here illegally we can reach a compromise. then in the committee you said i want to bring people out of the shadows. now you want to trump trump on immigration. >> he is the king of saying oh, you're for amnesty, everybody is for amnesty except for ted cruz but it's a falseness and that's an authenticity problem. >> chris, i would note the last four questions would be rand, please attack ted, marco, please attack ted, chris, please attack ted, jeb, please attack ted. [ boos ] >> it is a debate, sir. >> well, no, no, a debate is a policy issue but i will say this, gosh, if you guys ask one more mean question, i may have to leave the stage. >> i feel like a need a washington-to-english dictionary converter. when you're governor you have to admit it. you can't hide behind parliamentary tricks. that's the difference and the leader we need in the white house. stop the washington bull and

let's get things done! >> how great is chris christie, huh? >> he is great. >> i'm watching a couple others that made me cringe and chris christie comes on. he is good. >> welcome back to "morning joe" it's friday, january 29. we have senior political editor and white house correspondent for the huffington post sam stein. >> sam stein said ben carson won the debate last night. [ laughter ] >> he had a few moments. >> former communications director. >> something about putin being a one-horse country. it was sleepy. >> and former communications director for george w. bush, nicolle wallace. economic analyst steve rattner, abc news political commentator and npr senior analyst cokie roberts. pulitzer prize winning columnist in and associate editor of the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. what a great group this morning. >> best panel ever. >> so we haven't heard from you

and steve has chart, gene, what was your take away? >> i thought ted cruz had an awful night. is you know, everybody's been saying it was not a good night. i think it was just a patently awful night. his attempts at humor and irony fell flat. he always sounds like he's t trying to -- like i'm an old person and he's trying to sell me a reverse mortgage. >> oh, my -- >> it's that the tone he's got that's unfortunate. >> before you criticize them, i have three reverse mortgages right now. >> right, right. >> did fred sell them to you? >> and look at. >> and i need that insurance for my final experiences. but you know, he was the target. he was the pinata and they went after him and i think scored. >> and cokie, even when he wasn't the target, he made himself the target by first of

all whining about chris wallace after attacking donald trump for a week for whining about megyn kelly. you got a sense that ted cruz has been able to ride in donald trump's wake for the past six months or else he would have been exposed much earlier. >> well, except i think the last couple weeks have had him really rattled. the whole business about natural born citizen and he's had a canadian -- somebody dressed as a canadian mountee following him around every place. he is not a likable person and that came across very loud and clear on the stage people don't really vote for people they don't like, texas did but iowa isn't ready to do that and the

fact that governor branstad has been so strong against him also really does affect caucus goers. >> i think it just proves trump's strategic genius here. he knew going sboo( the last debate the inherent drama would be whether the top dog on the stage would be knocked down a peg and by removing himself the from the stage, he made ted cruz the last remaining top dog and it worked incredibly well for trump. everyone after cruz -- cruz had a poor showing and trump's main competitor in a way was reduced last night without trump being there. >> i think cruz did more than just harm himself. i think to the -- i think halperin's report card reveals this. everyone had good moments. most of them were at the expense of ted cruz. marco rubio's best moment of the night was when he said to the moderators "no matter what you say to me, i'm not going to leave this stage." he was able to look thick

skinned to an incredibly whiney ted cruz. he also allowed rand paul to rise to a relevant policymaker and holder and debater last night because he revealed all of his hypocrisy on immigration. >> so ted cruz and marco rubio attacked each other's history and whether they evolved on a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants. fox's moderators prompted the feud by rolling archival clips of previous contradictory statements marco rubio and ted cruz made and then the candidates got to respond. >> this is the lie that ted's campaign is built on and rand touched upon it. he's the most conservative guy and everyone else is a rhino. the truth, is throughout this campaign, you've been willing to say or do anything in order to get votes. ted, you worked for george w. bush's campaigns. you helped design george w. bush's immigration policy. and when you got to the senate, you did an interview with cbs

news, that wasn't even part of the video, where you said on the issue of people who are here illegally we can reach a compromise. then in the committee you said "i want to bring people out of the shadows." now you want to trump trump on immigration. but we're not going to beat hillary clinton with someone willing to say or do anything to win an election. >> go ahead, senator cruz. >> i like marco, he's very charming, he's very smooth. a but the facts are simple, when he ran for election in the state of florida, he told the people of florida "if you elect me, i will lead the fight against amnesty." when i ran in texas, i told the people in texas "if you elect me, i will lead the fight against amnesty." we both made the identical promises but when we came to washington, we made a different choice. marco made the choice to go the direction of the major donors to support amnesty because he thought it was politically advantageous. i honored my commitments and as president i will honor every commitment that i make to the men and women in this country. >> i saw the debate. i saw ted cruz say "we'll take

citizenship off the table and then the bill will pass and i'm for the bill." the build would involve legalization. he can't have it both ways. but what is particularly insulting, though, is that he is the king of saying "oh, you're for amnesty." everybody's for amnesty except for ted cruz but it's a falseness, and that's an authenticity problem that everybody knows is not as perfect as him because we're all for amnesty. i was for legalization. i think frankly if you have border security you can have legalization. so was ted but now he says it wasn't so. that's not true. >> you know what's so galling about this is everyone one of them has flip-flopped. ted cruz has flip-flopped. marco rubio has flip-flopped. marco's speech was a great speech -- except he was guilty of what he was accusing ted cruz of being guilty of. >> nobody has clean hands here. >> jeb is the only one that says "yes, i've change mid-position." but you have, too.

marco and ted cruz are being televangelists saying how you sinners are dirty and -- and they're at the front of the pack of changing their position. >> but i think it's also true as we sit here today, at least my feeling is that ted cruz is the stronger on immigration. that he is clearly taking -- >> in iowa? is that what you're saying? with this electorate? because i think nationally -- >> you're saying the canadian is? >> the canadian, yes. he'll get more canadians coming here. but the canadian is moving closer to donald trump. i think rubio is keeping wiggle room for himself and i think rubio deep down inside is more moderate on immigration. >> rubio is more moderate on it. the problem with ted cruz is, you know, coekie roberts, georg w. bush inflamed not only the conservative base but republicans when he was trying to team up with mccain and ted kennedy back in '07 for a massive immigration reform bill.

ted cruz -- marco is right -- was there. in fact, ted cruz was there -- this has been one of the things that's irked me about ted cruz from the beginning. when it was envogue to be a bush man, he was the biggest bush man in washington, d.c.: a guy that i've written books -- two or three books about, about silling out the conservative cause when it was an unpopular thing to do. the second it became popular to attack george w. bush, he was the tea partiers tea partier. and this is one truth about his character last night that marco rubio revealed. whatever is convenient politically for ted cruz in that political season then ted cruz goes that way 100%. >> and that's one of the reasons why he's so disliked here. people think that everybody in washington's that way and it's not true. the truth is that most people in politics, yes, they can change

their positions but when they give you their word they don't go back on their word: and there's a sense with him that he will do anything for himself and, of course, president bush has made it clear he's not fond of ted cruz, either. so it goes both ways. but george w. bush was trying to do the smart thing about immigration which was to first of all deal with all of these people who are in this country but secondly understanding the d demographics of america and understanding the republican party can't keep winning by being a bunch of old grumpy white men. and that's what it's coming down to. and anybody who had a brain understood that but then it became such a problem in the base that a bunch of people just went and hid behind that wall. >> there's a misnomer. bush was briefed by the policy people who told him it was completely unworkable to deport 11 to 17 million people.

he also knew it would not work. >> by the way, it still is. >> so let's bring in from des moines, iowa, hallie jackson. there was a lot going on beyond the immigration debate last night. where do you want to begin? >> you know, let's start with the authenticity moment, guys. i thought that was really important for a couple candidates on that stage and i talked with rand paul last night about the idea that he brought that up against ted cruz, ted cruz has had to fend off this likability, this personalty attack, not just from donald trump but from others for a while now. it gets to the core of one what one of his biggest vulnerabilities may be. you saw that last night. he started off rather strong, talking about donald trump, he got the dig in, he looked almost statesmanlike but when you got maybe a half hour 40, minutes into the debate after that exchange with chris wallace there he looked combative and that, frankly, is not always a great look for ted cruz because of this idea that he's perceived as unlikable. the other part of the authenticity thing, nicolle mentioned that, that moment for marco rubio after ted cruz

talked about if you got more mean questions he'd go off the stage, and marco rubio who often runs the risk of looking scripted and sometimes inauthentic, he sometimes reveals -- lists off chunks of his stump speech, came back with that moment saying "ask me anything" and it was authentic and unscripted and off the cuff. we're told by the campaign it wasn't prepped at all and it worked for marco rubio. >> nicolle? >> well, the other thing i was wondering if i had been in the hall i would have wanted to know how the jeb bush team felt. because he had a great night and it's very clear to donald trump has totally shaped all the contours of his candidacy. what did they say after the debate? >> the campaign liked the dulce candy moment when he was talking about a young woman who was a entrepreneur and a veteran and they thought that was a good reflection about talking about american values and a great moment for jeb bush. the campaign also felt, of course, that marco rubio and john kasich in particular had bad nights, especially with

rubio getting hit on immigration, some of these other issues as well. cap and trade, etc. >> hallie jackson, thank you so much. so just a short drive away from last night's debate donald trump gathered supporters to raise money for veterans groups. he said he was going to do this and, boy, did it play out like a well-produced event. he launched a web site yesterday, donaldtrumpforvets.com for people to make donations to veterans' needs through the donald j. trump foundation with the promise of 100% going to the vets. listing the names and donations of wealthy friends, bringing some on stage and letting veterans talk about adjusting to life back in the states. and trump still found some time to talk about politics. >> you look at a guy like jeb bush, he's -- low energy -- he's taken 120 -- extremely low. i shouldn't say this, he's debating right now, maybe he's doing great. he's probably looking for me. he's saying "has anyone seen trump? where is he?

where is he?" i'm not going to be doing polls font. usually i like to get up and do polls and even mike says "why do you keep doing those polls?" because they sere good: this is a special nation for me and i had no idea this was going to happen. we started out literally 24 hours ago maybe less, we had no idea and we went out, we set up the web site, i called some friends and we just cracked, the sign was just given, we just cracked $6 million, right? [ cheers and applause ] $6 million. >> sam stein, fellow presidential contenders rick santorum and huckabee who just appeared at the undercard debate, they showed up and they spoke at trump's podium. >> the biggest media spotlight they've gotten all campaign. >> unbelievable. you wanted to make a point. >> i wanted to make two points about this. it's incumbent of us to make sure the money he raised get there is. i have no doubt it will. but secondly there are two campaigns that pledged to give money to veterans' charities if donald trump were to debate them

specifically, when was ted cruz's super pac which put up a $1.5 million check and carly fiorina said $2 million. i don't know if it was just me but i was a little grossed out by the idea of dangling that money -- >> mccain said that. >> they ought to give the money righ right now. >> they should give the check now. it was gross. >> either you care about veterans or you don't care about veterans. ted cruz should put the $1.5 million to veterans groups right now. >> thank you. that's all i wanted to say. >> that's exactly how i felt the second he said it. >> because it's not a game. >> gene, you don't dangle money out in front and say i'll give you this if you'll debate me for my political gain. don't you think ted cruz should give the $1.5 million to the vets? >> right. if he wants to do that, then he should go ahead and give them money and dangling it is just -- it's inappropriate and it's just weird. [ laughter ]

he should haven't done that. you know, i agree with those, by the way, who were saying that jeb bush had a good night. it was so far and away his best appearance at a debate. it's as if the spell was broken or the ogre wasn't there or whatever, something about trump's presence that just reduces jeb bush and makes him physically shrink and he stood tall last night and i thought he got the better of his mentor/ n mentor/mentee exchange. >> i think the interesting thing will be to see the ratings when they come out, and the polls. he's really -- talk about a guy who takes risks. nicolle wallace, cokie roberts and eugene robinson, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe," governor huckabee joins us live, so does governor chris christie. next hour, we'll be joined

by jane sanders, wife of sanders. really look forward to that. first, our political round table with chuck todd is straight ahead. also, we're going to java joes, we're doing the show in iowa monday and tuesday 6:00 central iowa time. joe and his band will be performing, mcmckinnon will jump up on stage. >> sam stein -- >> triangle. >> nicolle has the tambourine. >> bongoes. >> i am really good. >> i totally can see that. >> it's my specialty. >> do you have a special outfit? >> i don't think i want to see that.

look at this beautiful sunrise.

in the ktvt poll, number. . has trump at 24% and rubio. carson at 8% dropping 14 points since leading in october. and in pennsylvania, with the

primary on april 26, trump has a 10-point lead over cruz, rubio is back at 11%, carson and chris christie and bush at 5%. joining us now, former senior advisor to rand paul's presidential campaign and former speech writer to secretary of state condoleezza rice, now an nbc news political contributor, elise jordan joins us. in des moines, iowa, moderator of "meet the press" and host of "mtp daily" chuck todd. good to have you on board. >> chuck todd, you look at the polls, there aren't a whole lot of trims that you can cling to, marco is up in some, down in others, cruz up in some, down in others. trump is in first place in all the polls in texas and there are trend lines in every state. >> it mostly mirrors. if you look at it, the less campaigning that's been done in a state, the more it usually mirrors the national numbers with texas as the outlier and this is ted cruz as the favorite son. check out pennsylvania, that

looked like the nbc news/"wall street journal" national number, or even wisconsin. so i think that's if there's any trend line that's there. and that's lagging indicators. what happens iowa and new hampshire changes all the numbers. >> chuck, so last night, i'm wondering whether you agree with most of the people around the panel and the front page of the "des moines register" that the big loser last night was ted cruz. >> i think he had a tough night but i think he -- he missed an opportunity. with trump not there, i think he wanted to take -- he wanted to show he was in command of this field and it's like in the first five minutes i thought he did a good job of that but the moderators were tougher on him. he was the front-runner on stage, that's going to happen. everybody else beat him up. you can tell he's not the most popular guy on stage. rand paul hit him hard. but he did survive for this run reason. rubio didn't have -- rubio was

doing really well, i think, frankly, until immigration came up. then you realize what happened -- that's his achilles heel. if he can figure out how to get out of his immigration box, i think -- and get to this next level. but every time -- everything else is going well for him. he's the goo i in command on national security issues on that stage but immigration comes up and he got battered left and right, cruz hits him from the right, jeb hits him from the left and he was -- you can see he was just a bit flummoxed. >> and the problem, mika, is, again he's being self-righteous about ted cruz not having clean hands on immigration when marco was further out there than any other republican. >> it's a very complicated issue. >> but it's not complicated with marco. he was in the gang of eight, he was there with chuck schumer, he was more out there on this issue than everybody else. for him to lecture ted cruz on this? seriously? >> we're deep in the weeds on the debate.

i want to ask elise and many other members of the panels as well because you've been in this and watched this for a living. what were you watching last night? did you watch just the debate and nothing else? >> well, i watched the debate but i also went on commercial breaks over to the trump rally and managed to catch that right when he said he was donating a million then flipped back to actual policy substantive discussion which i felt like the debate mostly was. and i was surprised a little bit that the first debate i felt like megyn kelly was incredibly tough and she was tough in this debate but really basically kind of second quarter she really took it up a couple notches with the two video montages of cruz and rube mio on immigration whii thought, whoa, if every candidate had to deal with something like this, that is quite a debate. >> that's having them eat their words. sam, did you watch just the debate? you were just focused in on policy, right? >> yes. i did the same thing, i flipped a bit because i thought it would be interesting to see what the

split screen looked like. i said before i think trump strategically at least did a smart thing by skipping. he knew in the last debate before iowa that the person was who was the front-runner, i.e. him, would get much of the incoming and by removing himself from that equation not only did he not get the incoming but he redirected it to ted cruz who took it on the chin a lot and i think that was his strategically smart move. >> i'm wondering if everyone was watching that. >> chuck todd, what's your take away on trump's big gamble? win, loss, or wash? >> i think it was more a wash than anything else. look, i agree with sam in the respect that, yes, i think the gamble paid off in that he didn't take -- he didn't get any extra incoming. i don't know if voters are going to necessarily penalize him and if you're undecided on trump, him not coming to the debate but hanging out in iowa, he's debated plenty before, i just don't see how that decision

alone would be the disqualifier for you if you're sitting there still pondering trump or not. so that's why i think clearly he sort of avoided what could have -- look, there was only down side for him in the debate unless somehow -- but it was probably more of a chance of a down side and so in that respect i think it's paid off. but i'll be honest with you, by saturday no one will be talking about the debate at all. >> exactly. >> this thing is moving so fast. by the way, i think the more interesting story here is rubio got a shot at catching cruz or not. i think it's possible. there's something -- i think, you know, we'll see but if it's a real three-way race here and rubio has more organization than any of the other so-called establishment candidates here, if he's closer to second than fourth, that's a big deal. >> i tell you what, cruz made that more possible last night and we talked all day about donald trump but the headline last night was how bad the night

was for ted cruz and how many iowans will hold it against donald trump for debating six times, not debating seven times but coming to iowa and handing checks out to vets, that i just aren't, when, by the way, most iowans were watching number three. iowa played basketball last night. >> well, you have an update on who's the best bet for 2016 according to online markets? >> we'll look at the betting marketings, i agree with the general consensus that i think last flight prove to be a wash and so far anyway the markets are kind of unmoved but what you see in iowa for starters is that trump has really moved well ahead of the pack and a lot of that, surprisingly, oddly, whatever, dates back to the sarah palin endorsement. he was well behind cruz until then. >> well, but -- i just can't -- >> i'm not saying -- >> i can't let you say that. you need to take that line back another week and draw a big maple leaf right there.

>> okay, we'll put it over there. >> i agree with you, joe. i agree with you. i think it starts with canada. >> chuck, i have to say, we'll go back to the charts. this canadian thing, one of the most remarkable things i've seen in politics where he throws it out there and he uses the weight of everybody's contempt for ted cruz in washington, d.c. to crush the momentum of cruz's campaign. >> well, however it happen ed - >> let ratner go. >> however it happened, we are sitting here today with ted cruz at 55% probability, this is not a vote share, this is a possibility and cruz down at 38%. so it's a little bit better than even odds. and what's interesting to note is while he's had a few ups and downs in the last few day, it doesn't appear the debate boycott per se had any negative effect. what happened last night we'll see in the fullness of time.

on the democratic side this is h has not been close. there are polls that show sanders ahead or even with mrs. clinton. but according to the betting markets while she had a wider spread when you get out into materially part of the year in late december when she wasn't necessarily playing her best game, since about the 10th or so of january you can see that she's come to a pretty steady place. >> so you're saying bernie sanders is a good place to bet money? >> if you can get good odds. but at the moment he is not the favorite. >> hillary underperformed in 2008, obviously, came in third place. i would guess none of the betting agencies thought she was going to finish third there, you know? >> i have to go back and look but the polls back then were quite wrong. >> i bet she doesn't finish third this time. >> you don't think so? >> i don't think she'll finish third. >> that's bold! >> i take bold choices here.

>> just to sum this up, when you put this thing together you see that trump has really surged over the last month or so and is well in the lead. rubio, who had been -- who had taken over from george bush when george bush turned out to be -- >> jeb bush. >> sorry, jeb bush. thank you. i always say that. down to 28% and then you have to other folks down below. so right now these markets have given trump an incredibly strong endorsement. they don't move easily, they don't move quickly. >> that's unbelievable. they've shot up. >> they've shot straight up. >> chuck, who do you have on "meet the press.." >> we have ted cruz! whoa, chuck, thank you very much. elise stay with us. coming up, huckabee's super pac just unleashed a blistering add on ted cruz, questioning his faith. he joins us live and we'll talk about whether the evangelical vote in iowa can help him win out the caucuses once again.

also, chris christie straight ahead. you're driving through the woods

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>> did you tell that story? >> i'll tell it right now. >> sam stein's mom's here. the first time i saw her, she comes up to me and she goes "i love you, but you need to let my son talk more." >> well, she's smart. she's a smart woman and very protective of me and i'm not ashamed of it. >> this is going to fweed into our jokes about you. >> she's actually here because

she's got to drive him to school. he forgot the lunchbox. >> and does he have his coat? >> she's got his coat! >> that's her coat. >> you forgot your coat, sam. >> i'd love to see her prep school patch. >> from des moines, iowa, let's have republican presidential candidate governor chris christie of new jersey. governor, we were watching last night and we heard a lot of back and forth and as you believe you cut right through with your "i need a washington-to-america dictionary." >> maybe an app. >> maybe it would be an app. but how did the debate go for you last night. >> listen, i thought it went very well. i -- once again, joe and mika, good morning, i answered the questions, you know, i thought i answered them directly and i think you see what happened. they showed video last night of senator rubio and senator cruz obviously having changed their positions on immigration and neither one of them are willing to admit it. that's why people are so frustrated with washington, d.c.

no accountability and they try to tell you what we just saw and heard wasn't really true. >> one of the most galling things, chris, is the fact we've said it here. i don't mind when people change their positions, every changes their positions. what is so galling is watching these two guys being self-righteous about the fact "you have changed your position on this and your heart is not pure." and you've just run a video three seconds before of how they've done the same thing. >> well, it's true and the fact is that senator cruz i think had a tough time explaining those videos but so did senator rubio and senator rubio seems to just not want to answer. he acts as if he's deaf. like say they this stuff to him and he gives them the prepared answer his staff gave him before he got up there. and i have to tell you, standing up there, you shake your head and that's why i intervene and said this is why america needs a

washington-to-english dictionary so they can understand what people are talking about. >> elise jordan has a question for you. i lease? >> hi, governor chris christiety, how are you? let's talk about the flood mob but i don't even care about the comment. were you just torturing your staff doing that the other day? >> you know what? that's the beauty of me, elise. you make jokes and sometimes people take it and sometimes they don't. but what really matters is look at what happened in new jersey compared to what happened in washington, d.c. and what happened in new york city. by sunday morning all of new jersey's roads were clear. by sunday morning new jersey transit was running on a regular schedule. by sunday morning you had every moving around the state. if bill de blasio would like me to come to queens and clear the snow for him or like me to come to washington, d.c. and clear the snow for them that's how people ultimately judge you in new jersey. media gets obsessed with every word that comes out of your mouth. what people on the ground want

are results and everybody got to work on monday morning on time in new jersey. you can't say that for the poor people in new york city or washington, d.c. >> governor, sam stein here, good to see you again. >> good to see you, sam. good to see your mother, too. >> we have a delay so stop asking how he's doing. you just asked him how he's doing, there's a 12-second delay. >> i said it was good to see him! >> and 12 seconds later he answers and then you go -- >> you've just wasted 12 seconds. >> then you go "would you like a spot of tea?" >> on the topic of evolving on immigration, i'm pulling up this article from i think 2015. you were on megyn kelly's show, you said you, too, had evolved on immigration. in 2010 you said "it was my first couple months of governor, i've learned the ramifications for these things." talking about how you used to support a common sense path to citizenship for people. talk about that evolution. why is that different than anyone else's immigration

evolution? >> i didn't say it was different than anybody else's evolution. i admit it and they don't. that's the difference, sam. >> there you go. >> good try this morning. >> i'm not trying! >> you're so combative, governor. good morning. >> i'm just reading a quote. >> the thing is, chris, though, and explain this to our viewers. like jeb bush, i thought one of the big moments last night where he turned to rubio and said "yeah, i changed my position, so did you." you've said the same thing, i've changed my position. will you explain how voters are fine with you changing your position? they're just not fine with you pretending you've never changed your position. >> here's what voters are fine with. they're fine if you're honest, they're not fine if you lie. senator rubio did not tell the truth last night on that stage. it a that's simple. he thinks he's so smooth about it and people won't notice because he doesn't answer the question. but people understand that and they get it and over the course of time we'll make sure they get it about senator rubio. >> any predictions about iowa?

how it's going to end up for you? >> no, i really don't, joe. it is, i think, very fluid, very different here than it is any place else in the country. these folks are going to take their time to make their decisions and we'll see. but we're going to work it right here right through monday and i've got four town hall meetings today in iowa. we're just going to work hard and try to convert more voters and i think we converted a bunch of voters last night. >> governor chris christie, thank you very much. good to see you. >> hey, could you -- mika, can i ask you a question. could you have picked a colder place for me to do this interview this morning? [ laughter ] >> yeah, if you could back up a few more feet? >> there's a meat locker that was the scene when "rocky" was punching the meat. >> i feel like i'm going to start pounding the meat, joe. it's unbelievable! incredible. >> next time we'll get you a heater. chris christie thank you very much.

mike huckabee went from the undercard debate to more prominent prime time appearance with donald trump. the 2008 iowa caucus winner joins us live next. one second it's there. then, woosh, it's gone. i swear i saw it swallow seven people. seven. i just wish one of those people could have been mrs. johnson. [dog bark] trust me, we're dealing with a higher intelligence here. ♪ the all-new audi q7 is here. ♪

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arkansas governor and presidential candidate mike huckabee. >> there's chuck norris dancing in the background there. that was -- it was a thrilling experience to say the least. >> you've got to play guitar with me again. ♪ sweet home alabama >> no, i'm not allowing it. >> mika, i'm a guitar player, i know good when i hear t he's good. >> look at that. >> that was a long time ago. >> that was a long time. that was a long time ago. >> buy gone era. >> mike huckabee looks better today than he did then, the rest of us have fallen off a cliff. >> it's over. joining us from des moines, iowa, republican presidential candidate and former arkansas governor, mike huckabee. you said you've got to play again. i have a chance for you -- >> he hasn't said he's coming.

>> are you coming sunday night? >> i hope i can do it, it depends on what time. we have a movie premiere of the movie god is not dead 2, but i think it may be over in time to get over there and do some jamming with joe. >> you've got to jam, baby. >> joe is a good guitar player. >> you are quite the bassist. also pretty darn good debater. i want to ask you not only how the debate was, but why you decided to go over to donald trump's event after. >> well, at 8:00 i really had nothing else to do because i offered myself to fill up that empty podium and that offer was just unceremoniously declined, so i said let's go support our vets. i was glad i did. it was a great event, a terrific salute to the veterans and i was proud to be a part of that last night. >> what was your take away from all the debates last night and the trump event? how does it impact your candidacy, the events there and how are you feeling today? >> well, you know, i thought we

had, you know, a good opportunity in that first hour to address some substantive issues, that went fine. you know, i realize probably not as many eyeballs were watching that as were watching the second one and that's why i offered to be at the second one. i felt good about going to the veterans event because there was a speaker john wayne walleding who is an amputee, green beret, lost his leg and he gave one of the most powerful speeches and he was really the featured speaker, it wasn't even donald trump and it was just electric. and to hear him and particularly when he said what everyone veteran wants to hear are two words, thank you, and he spoke with such he will sequence and it reminded me how important it is that everybody in this country put the veterans front and center and that the u.s. government make sure that they get the first fruits of the treasury and not the leftovers. we're seeing 22 veterans every day take their own lives. that's disgraceful. disgraceful. we've got to address that.

>> so, governor huckabee, i have a question for you. a lot of veterans charities lately have been under scrutiny for misappropriation of funding. i'm bond wing what due diligence you will do after this to make sure all the $5 million does go to charities for veterans as it should because donald trump set up this charity on the fly, i don't know if he has 501 c3, all of the -- it's a very intensive process to do this properly. >> well, the good news is one thing we know about donald trump, he is not going to keep the money because he doesn't need it and so that's a plus. he's going to go through -- you know, it's his responsibility, it was his deal last night and i think there's -- i think he mentioned there's like 16 different veteran groups that they are sorting through, they're doing the due diligence on it. they will receive a portion of what really turned out to be over $6 million raised as of last night, which is pretty amazing that in a very short

period of time that kind of money. but let me say this, you know, it's a shame that we even have to have outside veterans groups. i mean, that's the responsibility of the united states and every citizen in this country. it is our responsibility to take care of these veterans and the fact that we have the veterans organizations is an indication that there are a lot of gaping holes in what they need to come back and integrate into their community and their families and we've failed them. god forgive us for that because these are the people who made it possible for us to be free, without them there are no elections, there are no -- there are no great moments and it's just something that, again, i felt it was a terrific tribute to the veterans last night. >> sam. >> well, i just had a quick question. there's two campaigns who have offered -- who had offered to give charitable donations to veterans groups if they got one-on-one debates with donald trump and that was ted cruz's super pac and carly fiorina's campaign. would you call on those entities

to actually write the checks even though they haven't gotten the debates? >> well, sure. i mean, if it's conditioned upon a debate then is it about the veterans or is it about them getting a debate? you know, i went and i got nothing out of it other than just to go and i got, you know, by a lot of people criticized for showing up at some other candidate's event. i'm sure that there will be people who say i shouldn't have, in fact, even on my own facebook page i had criticism from some of my own supporters, but do you know what, i didn't ask for anything other than he's going to do a salute to the vets. as i said last night, we are competitors in the presidential race, but when it comes to standing up for veterans, we're colleagues. and that's one of the few things i think that unites america, even unites democrats and republicans, because i don't know of any democrat that doesn't want to support the veterans, either. it's truly an issue that i think americans can come together on. >> mike huckabee, thank you very, very much for being on this show this morning. coming up in our next hour,

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100% real milk, just without the lactose. so, no discomfort? exactly. try some... mmm, it is real milk. lactaid®. 100% real milk. no discomfort. donald trump has chosen not to attend this evening's presidential debate. what message do you think that sends to the voters of iowa? >> iowa in 2017 will not be flyover country. it will be fly to country. i'm a maniac. and everyone on this stage is stupid, fat and ugly. and, ben, you are a terrible surgeon. now that we've gotten the donald

trump portion out of the way. >> chris, let's begin by being clear what this campaign is about. it's not about donald trump, he is the entertaining guy, greatest show on earth. >> i miss donald trump, he was a little teddy bear to me, we always had such a loving relationship. ♪ baby, i have no story to be told ♪ ♪ i've had one of you and i'm going to make your head burn ♪ ♪ think of me in the depths of your despair ♪ >> this is an honor. this is a really honor. i didn't want to be here, i have to be honest. i wanted to be about five minutes away and i've enjoyed that. i've enjoyed that. all the online polls said i've done very well with that, with the debates, and i've had a kick with it, but you have to stick up for your rights. when you're treated badly, you have to stick up for your rights. you have to do it ♪ we could have had it all welcome to "morning joe."

what a night. with us on set senior political editor and white house correspondent for the huffington post sam stein, nicolle wallace, former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner and in des moines, iowa, managing editor of bloomberg politics, mark halperin and in washington, npr senior analyst cokie roberts is with us this morning. good to have you all. >> what did you think? >> wow. >> yeah, i think that it worked for donald again. that's what i thought. i mean -- >> i thought the debates were as steve was saying before, the debates were what they used to be before the age of trump descended upon the 757. i find it dull. >> incredible. >> i didn't see -- mark halperin, before we dive into it, get your opinion and cokie roberts' opinion.

i think at the end maybe it's in my opinion all sounded signifying nothing and it's just a big wash. i didn't see anybody -- and most of us here agree with that -- i didn't see anybody step out and fill the void that trump left. mark halperin. >> i agree. look, there was a huge opportunity for someone to really dominate the night. i think the three people that had the best nights, jeb bush probably had his best debate, playing more for new hampshire than for iowa and i think both senator rubio and senator cruz were fine, but neither of them had their best night and neither of them really stepped up and sort of asserted themselves as in a trumpless university i am king of the hill. they were all fine but i think it's a nonevent and i think trump showed that he can take risks and not just survive but thrive. >> he is a -- the mechanics of his producing the entire night were masterful. >> interestingly enough i thought rubio and cruz, rubio on the rise in a lot of polls, i

thought they had their worst night last night. i don't think it's a close call on either one of them. i mean, it didn't matter in the after debate because every single frank luntz focus group since 1924 has had marco rubio winning. cokie roberts, i was wondering what's your take away? >> i think the winner of the debate itself was megyn kelly. she was very forceful and very good and didn't let all of the stuff around her get in her head. but donald trump won the night. i don't think there's any question about that. the real question is whether he can get all of the people who are supporting him to the caucuses on monday night because most of his voters, many of his voters, say they have never been to a caucus and, you know, everybody that's been in iowa knows that that's not the easiest thing on earth to do, to get people there. but he's masterful, as mika said. he dominated the night. >> so, nicolle, this is what usually happens, i'm at home and i'm spending time with my kids. mika's kids are older so she

gets them when she can, right? so mika watches news. >> everything. >> while she's waiting. so i will be talking to jack and mika will go, you have to turn on cnn. you have to turn on msnbc. and i'm like, i can't. i'm here with jack, we're working a lego. last night -- >> but you are glad she did shoo last night she said you have to turn on the tv, kate was there, jack was there, we were going over homework and we turn on the tv and i'm glad i did. it was trump's plane landing in des moines. and i swear to god. >> it was unbelievable. >> it was like the pope had landed -- >> probably a nicer plane. >> with the middle east peace pact to end 3,000 years of war. i'm going off of what cokie said. the grand spectacle of it all was every bit as remarkable as the -- >> and he earned it. >> he planned it. >> i was talking to him in the morning and he said i'm going to

land exactly at this time and then i'm going to come on stage exactly at this time and all those things played to perfection and had all the cameras pitched toward him. >> that's the thing. >> all night long. >> that people don't understand. he doesn't have a team of 500. he has a team of like three. it's all planned out master flee and it's all in his head. he knew in the morning we were calling, calling fox, trying to say what's going to happen. this is what i'm going to do, i'm going to fly in at this time and -- >> how do you plan exactly all of that? >> a plane that big -- >> the rally in arizona he had the whole crowd in the hangar, he landed the plane, the cameras are ready, the plane taxis up, you see trump who descends like he is the pope or king. >> everybody thinks that he bum bls into this stuff. the whole thing has been planned. >> i was glad to hear him say -- i think you actually played it already -- that he didn't want to be there.

i think that was important. i think to his supporters he can do no wrong, but i think to people that had sort of hoped that he would have found a way to make -- to be on that stage, it was an important acknowledgment that this wasn't where he hoped it ended up and to offer the explanation right at the top that this was sort of him adhering to one of his own principles that you don't get knocked around. i think that was an important thing to say. >> do you agree with cokie that trump won the night? >> i read to you my -- >> your father. >> my classified analysis from my father. he's so fired up, his supporters, one by standing up for himself and two -- >> my brother. >> and i think by acknowledging that that wasn't his first choice of where he wanted to be it didn't cost him anything with people that may still be on the fence. >> my brother was texting me throughout the day, it reminded me of me asking my brother when i was like four and he was seven where is santa right now? >> he left the bridesmaids waiting at the wedding. >> what's happening? >> first it's not unprecedented

for candidates to skip a debate because it works better politically. b, contrary to what trump keeps saying about how he won all six debates, he didn't win all six debates. >> but he did have a great moment in the last one. >> he had some great moments. >> the new york answer. >> he's talking about every single poll that shows that he wins. >> every single poll has shown he has won. >> mark and then let's get sam. >> here are three things that trump showed in what he did with this debate gambit. one is he's willing to take risks, no one else in the field takes as many risks as he does. two, he thinks ten steps ahead. people think he bum bls into stuff. he anticipates what's going to happen, thinks it through, understands how other people will raekt. and then finally he's willing to adjust. he's willing to think about watch how things go with incredible media staff ay and say i need to recalibrate this just a little bit. in those three areas there's no one in the field who is his equal. every day he's doing those three

things better than anybody else. that's what's going to make him hard to stop. >> exactly. >> for anybody as we go forward. >> sam stein, it is all calculated and that's the thing they don't understand. we're talking yesterday morning not only when the plane was going to land, because we thought you're going to end up in the debate. he said, no, i'm going to walk out on the stage at 9:15, 15 minutes after the debate starts. so we said what's the story, why did you not go? at the end of the day why are you not doing it? he said i was driving across iowa, somebody read me the press release and he said, i can't go. he turned to his staff, he said, well, i guess i can't do the debate. he said it would so undercut who my supporters are. he said my brother would hate me if i backed down like that. nicolle's father would hate me, my supporters wouldn't -- he said they -- but it was all very planned -- it was all very, very

thought out and that's what -- >> he is a pro obviously. right? >> yeah. >> one thing that really good politicians are good at is playing the victim and i don't mean that pa jor tifl in any sense of the word, but for a billionaire man with his own jet who is leading the polls to then come out of this as the victim is really remarkable. >> fox news. >> and to turn fox news -- that was amazing. i think it's masterful. the thing that struck me about the debate, not only was it that he wondered a lot, but how much of the agenda has been shaped by donald trump is remarkable. with him off the stage the conversation was still about -- >> about him. >> about him, about carpet bombing isis, about surveilling muslims, about building walls. >> what about illegal immigration, it was even in his presence the policies were the policies. >> it was amazing. >> it was trump's night on every network across the board.

a short drive away from last night's debate donald trump gathered supporters to raise money for veterans groups, he launched a website yesterday donaldtrumpforvets.com for people to make donations to veterans' needs through the donald j. trump foundation with the promise of 100% going to vets. listing the names and donations of wealthy friends, bringing on stage and letting veterans talk about adjusting to life back in the states. by the way, calling people and asking for money not for his campaign but to help others. trump still found time to talk politics. >> you look a guy like jeb bush, he's taking -- low energy. he's taking 120 -- extremely low. i shouldn't say, he's debating right now, maybe he's doing great. he's probably looking for me. he's saying, has anyone seen trump? where's trump? where is he? >> i'm not going to be doing polls tonight, usually i like to get up and do polls on everybody, even mike would say why do you keep doing those polls, i said because they're so

good, you know. >> ivanka is going to have a baby in two weeks. in fact, we have -- we have a hospital all lined up and, do you know what, i'm doing great. i love the people of iowa but i said, ivanka, it would be so great if you had your baby in iowa. it would be so great. i'd definitely win. this is a special night for me and i have no idea this was going to happen. we started out literally 24 hours ago, maybe less. we had no idea and we went out. we set up the website, i called some friends and we just cracked -- the sign was just given we just cracked $6 million. right? $6 million. >> for the debates -- >> it's interesting he talked about -- cokie, he talked about jeb bush, low energy, very interesting. we got a glimpse into what this race would look like without -- without donald trump in it in the debate and it's a race jeb

bush would win because jeb bush clearly had his best night last night. i don't care what all the supporters say, four neutral observers he was head and shoulders above everybody else. >> jeb bush had a good night. it's not good enough. he embraced his family, especially his mother, but he has really just been too far behind i think to catch up. you know, what's interesting here in washington now is this business of trump adjusting. the political people on capitol hill are beginning to get behind donald trump. now, part of that is that they hate ted cruz, but part of it is that they think that cruz would just absolutely destroy the party for decades to come and they think trump will quo, quote/unquote, adjust and that means do more of what they think they want him to do once he gets to the general election. >> isn't that fascinating? >> yeah. >> you do sense that on capitol hill. >> absolutely. >> the people who even -- i won't name his name, but i spoke

to one of the most preeminent republicans over the past 30 years. >> name him. >> i can't. >> okay. >> about a month ago and i said, hey, listen, i know you're angry at him, i know him, if you'd like to pick up the phone and talk to him or have him meet, you know, it would probably be good because he could win this thing and you guys are going to end up being together. and the guy said, with all due respect, i think if i saw him i'd punch him in the face. >> right. >> they said too soon. but apparently -- >> no, man. i've talked to many operatives, republicans and lawmakers on capitol hill feel differently who say they think it's an act in some respects, they think that he will turn in the general election if he makes it there. but also he has worked in washington as a nonpolitical entity for quite a while. so they think he knows the game and they think that he can operate within the confines. >> it's a gamble. >> steve, i've got to say

because you are a new yorker and you dealt with these things. it's what i said when trump was on the other day he has worked with every mayor from john lindsay to a.b., to koch, to dinkins, to giuliani, to bloomberg, all big guys with big egos, now deblasio with completely different ideologies and he somehow managed to get on their good side and win in every case. i mean, drive up the north side highway and see 12 trump buildings. >> i think honestly on that he survived through all of that. but to say he ended on good terms with all of them i think is a bit of an overstatement. >> it's not about liking. >> i'm saying he has -- >> he dealt with them. >> in one of the toughest cities in america to do what he does. >> he did, but then in some cases he went off and took a bit more credit than perhaps he

deserved for some projects he worked on. >> what a shock. >> look, i was in washington yesterday and i think -- i think everything you say is true, but i think you're asking people in washington to choose between essentially the devil, i.e., ted cruz and some guy -- >> yeah. >> you give them that choice, you are not offering them case i can, bush, any of these other guys, you're saying here is your choice. i think some are thinking they can work with trump. >> the thing they know, mika and cokie has alluded to it and others have alluded to it, the thing they know with trump is they are going to have a guy that when he wins the general -- i mean, wins the primary, if he does, and let's just say he's going to move to the middle. >> still ahead on "morning joe" jane sanders, wife of bernie sanders joins us live. her husband just got a clean bill of health from the doctor and it's a good thing because he's been spending a lot of time out in the cold of iowa and new hampshire. later we will get a live report about the spread of the zika virus and warnings its

spread has become explosive. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. want to get their hands on. if they could ever catch you.

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one of the wall street banks that triggered the financial melt down, goldman sachs, just settled with authorities for their part in the crisis that put 7 million out of work and millions out of their homes. how does wall street get away with it? millions in campaign contributions and speaking fees. our economy works for wall street because it's rigged by wall street. and that's the problem. as long as washington is bought and paid for we can't build an economy that works for people. >> why isn't that a negative ad? >> does it mention hillary clinton? >> no. >> does it have any image of hillary clinton? >> no. >> is it true that an american

society, wall street, spends huge amounts of money on dozens and dozens and dozens of politicians? it is true. >> that was a new add from the sanders campaign and the senator's explanation of why it didn't qualify as a negative attack add. it comes as a new poll out of iowa shows hillary clinton with a five-point edge over sanders. >> that lead is just outside the poll's margin of error. hillary clinton and former president bill clinton held a flurry of events all over the state yesterday. candidate cnn continued to taught the achieve ability and concreteness of her agenda while the former president der rided his wife's main opponent for labeling her as part of the establishment. >> everything she ever touched she made better. and so next time you hear somebody say she's part of the establishment, and planned parenthood and human rights campaign fund are, too, because they supported her because of what she's done, you ought to

think about that. you ought to think about how she was the only candidate running who went to wall street before the crash. >> we have work to do. we don't need another gridlock political debate that divides us and avoids getting something done. so i intend to tell you exactly what i want to do and how how i will pay for it because i want you to know that. those of you who are already going to caucus for me i thank you. for others who are still making up their mind go on my website, hillary clinton.com, look at what i want to do and how i will pay for it because i want to have an election on that agenda. >> you know, it's very interesting, i want to talk about the clintons for a second. mark halperin, a tough article in the "new york times" about bill clinton, not having the impact on voters that he had before. bill clinton's magic seems to be missing and his approval ratings dropped from 50 to 39% over the

past month or so i guess since the trump attacks. is he going to have the impact that he had on, let's say, barack obama's convention as well? what are you seeing on the ground? >> i saw him do an event in waiverly yesterday and it was at a college, pretty big crowd and he was not his best. i thought he was better in new hampshire when i saw him last week. "the new york times" story is pretty accurate which is there is a little bit of a rambling quality to his presentation now. the best moments are great, the best moments when he's selling hillary clinton's record, when he has the crowd engaged, but there are a lot of moments when he a little bit wanders around on different things and talks about his own record. i think you have to compare him to the alternative which is to say he's out there helping her build support, out there helping her strategize. he is not at his peak but he is helping her and he's very engaged and he understands the stakes. a loss in iowa he understands would set this race in a much different direction than a win would. >> cokie roberts, we haven't had a chance to talk to you since we

have had the bernie surge over the past couple weeks. what's your take on iowa? how important is it for both candidates and where do you see it going right now? >> i think it's tremendously important for both candidates and i think the bernie surge is absolutely real and what it reminds me most of is 1972 when ed musky had the support of everybody in the leadership, all of the politicians and there was no excitement around it and the kids were all for mcgovern and they managed to excite the rest of the electorate and he got the nomination. then we know what happened. and i think the same thing would happen with bernie sanders. we were saying this week, yes, i will raise taxes. republicans have already cut that ad. >> all right. bernie sanders was also in iowa yesterday where he continued to rail against what he calls clinton's inconsistency on certain issues. >> it is great to be against the war after you vote for the war.

it is great to be for gay rights after you insult the entire gay community by supporting -- >> it is great to finally kicking and screaming come out against the tpp, but where were you on all of the other trade agreements? so what all of this is about, what it's about, is that what leadership means is not simply following the majority. >> and cokie, just to follow up on your 1972 analogy, that is george mcgovern versus, again, an establishment laden ed musky. >> right. that's exactly right. and then 49 states later the democratic party was trying to figure out what to do next. i think there is a lot of concern that the same situation could happen here. coming up on "morning joe."

the fight over purity and pragmatism in the democratic party. >> when she says i'm a progressive that likes to get things done she's actually minimizing the message saying, well, we can only do this much and bernie says we can do that much. what people don't understand is that's what he has always done, he's laid out a vision that was a lot more progressive and a lot more bold than people thought could be accomplished and then he has accomplished it. >> jane sanders, wife the bernie sanders, joins us live from burlington, iowa. she's next. keep it right here on "morning joe."

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sport. what this country is supposed to be about is all people being able to play a role in shaping the future of america, not a few. and i hope very much that in this election to the degree that you are eligible for the caucus night, if you are eligible to participate, i hope you will. i don't care who you're voting for, but i hope you will come out and i certainly hope that in years to come you will be actively involved in the political process, and if your friends, people your age, say, you're dumb, why are you worrying about these things, i hope you look them straight in the eye and i say, i'm not dumb. i am fighting for the future of my country and if you are not

concerned about that, you are the dumb guy, not me. >> that was bernie sanders speaking yesterday at roosevelt high school in des moines, iowa. with us now from burlington -- burlington, iowa. >> iowa, that is. >> not burlington, vermont. by the way, with a delay we have you would think she was in burlington, pakistan. >> that's true. >> we have a couple second delay, but it's okay. we have the wife of presidential candidate senator bernie sanders, jane sanders, she is a political adviser to the campaign and a former president of burlington college in vermont and she will be seated next to bernie sanders in the oval office if he wins. >> i will show you why her desk will be next to his. jane, let's go right into it, i want to hear about the excitement of the campaign, i want to get that, but we can say that. talk about the scathing edit editorial that the "washington post" put out about your saying saying that he claims fantastical claims about what he can do for americans. to what do you say? >> it's the establishment view.

the attitude is we can only do incremental change, that we can only have the status quo with a little bit of a cherry on top, but nothing -- nothing significant. anything that is bold, a bold vision, is not doable. we just disagree. and i would like to take issue with what cokie said before. i don't think the analogy is 1972, i think it's more fdr after the -- after the great depression. that people were looking for bold leadership, for vision, and he was told over and over again, everybody said, we can't do that. that can't be done. that's not what is supposed to be happening in this country. well, the people disagreed and i think that's happening now as we see whether we are talking to steelworkers unions or elderly groups or high schools or having rallies with thousands of

people, we're finding that bernie's vision is exactly what a number of american people are looking for. and i think cokie's fear about mcgovern results bear no resemblance to what is going to happen with bernie. >> and you're seeing that out in the field. we talk a little bit about the crowds and some of the concerns that others have might be that the crowds are so young, are they going to show up at the polls. what are you seeing out there? >> well, they're not really that young. i mean, i think that people -- people talk about it. we are doing fantastically among the young people, meaning young under 45, and i think the passion that they're showing, the commitment they're showing, if they're going out canvassing and making phone calls and trouncing through the snow, i think they are going to come out for caucus night. i mean, that's -- that's the end result of many, many months of work.

but it's not just young people. we've been -- i've mentioned that to a couple of the media that are following us and saying, are you looking at the crowds? the crowds are a lot more diverse in age in iowa than anybody has -- has indicated. when we went to the steelworkers union, i think it was 310-l and we walked in and i said, you know, these are our usual supporters, the working class people. >> right. >> the people who are -- yeah. >> let me ask you what you think the key issue is when you are out on the ground in iowa. what are people talking about the most? >> they're talking about the economy. they're worried -- not the economy in a general sense. they're not worried about the america in the economy, they're talking about their lives. they're talking about the fact that they're drowning in student

debt at high interest rates, they're talking about the fact that they can't live on $10, $11, $12,000 in social security. we had a meeting in iowa falls a couple days ago which was heart wrenching. just one person, ann, who is on social security at $10,000 a year and she was talking about having to shut down the rest of her house and move into her kitchen and living room so that she could save on heat. you know, i mean, these are the kinds of stories that we're hearing. they are concerned about the fact that the government is not working for them. that the issues that affect their daily life are getting no attention, either through the media or through their representatives. so i think they are responding quite well and hopefully to bernie's agenda. >> yeah. >> and bernie has always

delivered. i mean, when he ran for mayor in 1981 everybody said those ideas are crazy, you're going to tax us to death. he didn't raise taxes at all except when it went to a referendum to the voters for fixing the streets. he accomplished everything he set out to do and then some. that's why he gets 71% of the vote in vermont, including 25% of the republicans in the last election. because they know they can trust him, that he means what he says, he does what he says and they can count on him. i think the american people are finding that out. >> thank you for doing this. >> i'm sorry? >> this is sam stein. you obviously know your husband better than anyone else. for people who aren't familiar with his path to this point what would you say was senator sanders' maybe formative political moment in his life? >> i think -- i think when he

became mayor it was -- i mean, before that he was -- he was running educational campaigns and trying to raise issues. when he became mayor he took that so seriously, so -- i think it surprised everybody, even him, at what a good ceo he was. and what he learned was that when he came in we had a 13-member city council, only two of them were supportive of us. they fired his secretary, they wouldn't let him appoint anybody. so he went out to the public and said, i have to do this job that i want to do. i need your help. and what he did was he brought people into the system, he brought people in to talk about -- to work on issues, on youth, on women, on seniors, on the arts and the next election after one year of having complete similar to the

republican obstacles that president obama has faced, complete obstruction, he went to the people for half the city council, we won three of the six seats and forced the other two into runoffs. we doubled voter turnout. so people could see even without support from the legislative body that he actually got things done and government could make a difference in their life. doubled voter turnout. so i think that was very formative. >> jane sanders, it is so good to have you on the show. thank you so much. you speak really, really well about your husband and also i'd love to hear more about your accomplishments as well. we're going to be doing a profile on her next week. >> i don't know if she knows that, but jane sanders, thank you very much. take care. still ahead, global concern over the mosquito transmitted zika virus has u.s. officials trying to reassure nervous americans. that is straight ahead on "morning joe." the microsoft cloud allows us to

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organization says the zika virus is, quote, spreading explosively. as many as 4 million people could be infected by the end of the year. joining us now nbc news correspondent tom costello. tom, what can you tell us? >> this meeting they will hold next week is about deciding whether to declare this an outbreak, a global emergency, but i can tell you on the ground that is exactly what they're already dealing with. world health experts call it a rapidly exploding crisis south of the u.s. border. a tiny mosquito carrying the zika virus is thought to be responsible. so far an estimated 4,200 babies born in brazil with microcephali, abnormally small heads and brains. on thursday we were with a new mom in brazil as she took her two month old born with microcephali to the doctor. >> the level of concern is high. as is the level of uncertainty. >> reporter: with travel advisories now in effect the

uncertainty extends to the u.s., but experts believe the risk of a similar large scale outbreak here is low. largely because very few americans live in the kind of mosquito breeding grounds we see in brazil, surrounded by trash and stagnant water. >> people typically have air conditioning and good screens that limit their exposure. >> reporter: so far the cdc is aware of 31 cases of zika infection in the u.s., another 19 in puerto rico and one in the u.s. virgin islands. all of the victims contracted the virus while traveling abroad. this morning health departments across the country are under orders to report any suspected zika cases to the cdc. while women who are pregnant or who could become prel nant are urged to avoid traveling to zika hot zones. >> this was going to be our last who are ra before we had the baby in june. >> gina park and her husband already had their tickets to mexico next month, now they canceled.

>> we couldn't live with ourselves if somebody ever did happen. >> the stakes are very high. here in the u.s. that mosquito that can carry the zika they are only common in gulf states. by the way, they are not carrying yet. the concern is that they might in the coming months. >> nbc's tom dough o. costello. thank you very much. joining us is the director of the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases, dr. anthony fauci and also on set dr. dave campbell, he established the online health newsletter thrive. >> i'm going to start with you only because the segment was prompted by what you told me three weeks ago when i was visiting you and you say do you know what's going to be coming up three weeks from now, an explosive outbreak in the zika virus in america. yesterday morning i get "the new york times" news flash. how did you know three weeks ago? >> i knew because my heightened concern for my own patients and family in florida were we we know we have the same mosquito that transmits the disease in

brazil and we see the increasing numbers of birth defects in brazil from this zika virus. >> what are the numbers? >> popping the numbers. >> 2014 there was 147 cases of microcephali in brazil, now we're past 4,000 and we are going to top that. >> and, dr. fauci, you look at brazil as being a hot zone, dave was just talking about brazil. the olympics are going to be there this summer in august in the height of mosquito season. 200,000 americans expected to go down there for the olympics. what kind of health threat does this pose over the long run? >> well, first of all, the health threat to an individual who is not pregnant is really minimal. the zika is a relatively mild inconsequential infection. >> right. >> it's the issue of pregnant women and that's the reason why the cdc has the guideline and recommendation of women who are pregnant or thinking of being pregnant or not even sure if

they're pregnant to make sure that they really be careful and consider very strongly not visiting those regions until this all gets clarified. so that's really the thing one needs to concentrate on. a person getting infected with zika infection isn't a major illness with very little mortality. it's the pregnant women. >> that's what i'm asking you about because obviously a lot of pregnant women are very concerned and again, would you be concerned looking forward about the need to make some pretty extensive preparations because 200,000 americans are going to go down. >> calling it a global emergency now. >> and coming back to the united states. >> i think that the cdc will continually update their guidelines. i would imagine if there's still a major outbreak at the time of the olympics that they will still be warning pregnant women not going down there and that's exactly what will happen. the brazilian authorities are trying very hard and particularly leading up to the

olympics of marshaling a large number of people, even including some of their own troops, to try and help with the mosquito control by eliminating standing water, using insecticides, so that's the immediate way to address this right now. >> right. >> since we don't have a vaccine and we don't have other types of -- >> right, there is no vaccine. >> dr. carp bell, not only is there no vaccine there is no widely available test to see if you have it. so what's the process from getting from point a to point b where we can actually test people and where we can vaccinate people. >> even though the test that is recommended is having ultrasounds during pregnancy to notice whether the child has the birth defect but the blood tests unfortunately had some cross reactivity with the other viruses that are out there, dengue and yellow fever. >> dr. fauci, briefly, this is a warm weather as tom costello said this mainly concerns for the united states people in the gulf states. >> right.

>> certainly not in new england. >> yeah. i think that we need to put into perspective the historical approach. we almost certainly are going to get a lot more people who have imported cases and we have them now, we have actually 51 if you include our port reek can and u.s. virgin islands. so we will continue to see more people coming back. the real issue is will we have local spread and local spread is when you actually have it within the united states of a mosquito biting someone and spreading it to someone else. we've seen local outbreaks of a minor nature with a very similar infection called dengue which is very rampant in south america, particularly in brazil, and chikungunya which is very rampant in the caribbean. we have not seen major outbreaks in the united states and that's the reason why, although we are not being overconfident or cavalier, we do believe that there's a small chance. >> dr. anthony fauci, thank you.

dr. dave campbell thank you as well. up next, a look at where it all began. for "morning joe" in iowa. >> the hairstyles are horrific. foshs ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪ ♪ those who define sophistication stand out. those who dare to redefine it stand apart. the all-new lexus rx and rx hybrid.

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. on the show today barack obama will be coming by here, mika. as will mitt romney, bill richardson and a cast of millions at java joe's. here in des moines, iowa, it is literally an epicenter of the political world this morning. >> this is turning out to be the

place to be. >> this is where it all began. >> it is. java joe's. they weren't going to let us come, but then we get here and a funny thing happened. >> my friend timmy, timmy russert shows up. >> tim russert wandered in off the street, came in with his barn jacket on. >> the door blows open, it's snowing like crazy outside. >> the temperature was 6 below zero. you would never know it. >> tim russert walks through snow drifts, comes up to us, wipes the snow off his shoulders and says, hey, do you mind if i'm on the show. >> you didn't have to dress for this occasion here. >> i've been called a number of things but never a limousine liberal. >> at the very beginning we said we had an audience of one, it was tim russert. that morning our audience of one actually came here and that made all the difference. >> i think it was the first time he has been on this show and it really gave "morning joe" a

stamp to say, you guys are okay. >> it was great. >> eight years later you're still talking about your luggage. >> tim, do you know what happened to me? my plane was canceled, we had to drive to chicago and and my bag still in chicago. so i apologize. >> it looks that way. >> he always brought fun and insight into everything he ever did. he did that day. >> interesting for me has been how professional the iowa voter has become. they will say, tim, what do you think about electability? >> 2012, fell asleep in the back room early in the morning, i was awoken by mitt romney shaking me awake, saying it's not the first time he has seen me sleeping on the job. >> it's been great for business and i just -- we feel like we are part of the nbc family now. >> i view java joe's as the birthplace of "morning joe." >> i like the coffee, too.

>> it's really good coffee. >> all right. it's time to talk about what we learned today. we will be live at java joe's monday morning, stop by. >> and you're playing sunday night. >> sunday night going to be there. what did you learn today, sam? >> you know, i try to -- everyone has -- i have the best mom in the world. >> dr. daves, five seconds. >> heightened awareness for pregnant women traveling where there's zika. >> okay. and what did you learn, mom? >> i learned that this child knows to get promoted to best child status. >> what time is it? >> it's way early. what time is it? >> "morning joe." >> stick around because "msnbc live" with jose diaz-balart is up next. right after a quick break. e*trade is all about seizing opportunity. so i'm going to take this opportunity to go off script. so if i wanna go to jersey and check out shotsy tuccerelli's portfolio, what's it to you? or i'm a scottish mason

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it was a debate last night like we have never seen before, but there was something missing. we've got it all covered for you and it starts right now. >> let's address the elephant not in the room tonight. >> i'm a maniac. and everyone on this stage is stupid, fat and ugly. now that we've gotten the donald trump portion out of the way. >> democratic legislature i've gotten kerv sieve things done. >> we work for the people, the people don't work for us. >>ing i don't think you have to give up