marie callender's. it's time to savor. like it or trump it, let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington on the way to des moines. well, he did it, didn't he? donald trump didn't show up for the big performance thursday night, but there was no understudy there to replace him. no judy garland character to step into the spotlight, no political awningview to take him. the whole event went just as donald trump planned it. he got all the attention and the

other candidates squabbled like reporting players over the little bit of story trump didn't grab for himself. and just a reminder, it didn't used to be like this. i'm joined by nbc's katy tur, as well as david catny, senior political writer for "u.s. news & world report," and paul singer, washington correspondent for "usa today." katy, you are a trump expert. if you don't write a book apps about this, i'll be amazed. you have so much story to tell. last night, i look ee eed at al newspapers. all over the front pages, trump, trump, trump. and i'm looking at all the wire stuff, trump, trump, trump. all the news stories we look at in the morning to find out what's going on, he dominated. and the most important thing from his point of view, nobody stepped in except cruz stepped in to be beat up! it was like his night to be beaten up. >> one of the things we've seen in the last few months, donald trump has been really able to suck all of the oxygen out of the room, whatever he needs to,

in order to get all the headlines on himself. he has dominated almost every single news cycle in this campaign season, thus far. and he's heading into iowa on monday, with all of that momentum, especially after that fund-raiser, where he was able to say, i'm the strong man, i'm the leader, i'm -- i have action, whereas these guys are all on stage, just talk. i was able to raise $6 million for veterans, for you guys in that crowd, when those other politicians were doing what other politicians do. they were standing on a stage and they were arguing with each other and they were not getting anything done. that is what his supporters want to see him do. they want to see him go into washington and get things done. make it work again. get compromises on the table. get legislation passed. fight for them, not the special interests. not their donors. the big thing that resonates with him is him funding his own campaign. they think that he's not beholden to other billionaires, even though he is a billionaire himself. the question is, though, after iowa, if he's able to take iowa

and then potentially new hampshire, if he gets this nomination, he's going to have to attack at some point towards the center, go a little bit more moderate, and reconcile those extreme views he's won over a certain portion of the republican electorate, and then woo over some of those soft democrats and those independents in order to win the general election. you cannot win a general election by talking about a muslim ban, by talking about a lot of the other extreme views that he has had, that has appealed to the republican base. he's going to have to find a way to reconcile that and woo others, who want to see a more moderate version of donald trump. or a more moderate version of their president, of their candidate. >> well, that's the way it's always been. i don't know if anything's ever the way it's always been, but i think you're right, that's the way it's always been, you move to the center. but in his case, he's got to keep that core, nationalistic thing he has. whatever you want to call it, that core appeal he's got, and not let that crack. how does he do that? how does he stay true to being donald trump and also become more acceptable to the people that don't trust him now?

>> i think the thing that donald trump has in his arsenal is that he's very good at reading a room, he's very at wooing people. getting them on his side. he has a charm to him. will that work with everybody? i don't think so. he has angered a lot of minority groups. he's angered a lot of women's groups. there are a lot of people out there who don't trust him or don't like anything he says. but there are those who don't necessarily like his positions, but like his personality. and what he's going to need to do going forward is try to find a way to win them over with his personality, to make it seem like he wasn't so extreme. like he's going to go in there, and he doesn't necessarily care about some of the more extreme social issues, necessarily. but they need to vote for him, because he's going to be able to get the economy working again. get washington working again. make deals when this congress, the past few congresses, frankly, have not been able to do anything. they've been at a standstill. so, that's what his positives can be. the question is, is he going to be able to convince those who

have been so offended by him in this election cycle. i know we've talked so much about him, and we're talking to his supporters, mind you, but when you go outside of that donald trump bubble, there is a lot of dislike from -- there are a lot of people who think he's full of hot air. a lot of people think he's talking a lot of nonsense and it's all about him and a big ego for him. a big game. he doesn't necessarily want to run the country. he just likes the idea of winning the presidency. >> well, i will say one thing from my observations back here and around the country, is that the people who are against trump speak so loudly. they love to let you know, very quickly, they don't like him. they think he's offensive or whatever, for all the reasons you mentioned, the ethnic stuff, especially. but the people who are for him are not always out loud about it. they're quiet about it. i think there's a lot of secret support for trump, left, right, center. that's what i'm coming across. they're quietly formed, because they like something about his attitude. i'm not sure we're going to figure out if anything can be distild away from the bad stuff, because that's going to be his

challenge. as you point out, he's got to take away the bad, somehow reemphasize or emphasize the part that people find attractive about him. because he looks like the clear front runner going into the caucuses monday night. >> may i make a quick -- >> sure. let me make a quick point. one gentleman the other day said he was still deciding between jeb bush and donald trump and i found that to be a pretty surprising decision he was going to make. then i talked to another woman at this veterans fund-raiser, this veterans event, and she said at the moment, she is an independent voter, and she is still deciding between lihillar clinton and donald trump. and i said, how do you reconcile those two views? she said, she likes hillary clinton, she likes her strength, she likes she has the experience, there's nobody out there that's more qualified for this job, but there's something about donald trump she cannot take her eyes off of. she likes that he's bucking tradition and bucking the establishment. and she said it's going to be down to the wire. she's going to walk into her local caucus station and decide

just then and just there, who she's going to vote for, whether it's donald trump or hillary clinton, which is such a surprising thing. >> i think that's great reporting. >> something we're seeing all over the country. >> katy, you are great. i really mean this. that's the kind of thing i think is going on. and i was thinking as you were talking, when they couldn't decide between jeb bush and donald trump, it's like, i'm going to the pet store, i don't know whether to get a dog or a cat. it's just like, it's so wild and across the board. or a zebra! like, what are we getting here? it's like this crazy decision making. thank you so much, katy tur out in iowa. anyway, thursday night was proof, many believe, that donald trump doesn't even need debates. the name "trump" shared the front pages today in the sid side-by-side with his republican debate. abc's political director wrote, "debate without donald trump favors donald trump." among conservative media, the headline on the drudge report read, "the seven dwarfed by

donald trump." pretty good headline there. on social media, trump gained the most followers on twitter and was the most mentioned candidate of the night. he was the most searched candidate on google as well. so everywhere we look, the -- what do you call it, the metrics favor him. so let me go to our guests that are here. katy had to go and do something else. let me go to david catanese in a minute, but first, paul singer. this night could have gone either way. roger ailes and his people were calling him up to the end, come on over, fox still had a good number, but he had a lot of interest. >> and in some ways, he's playing the classic front-runner card. front-runners don't like debates and they don't like the debates for the reason ted cruz saw. when you're the front-runner, you get bloodied by everyone else on the stage. donald trump had no real reason to want to do this debate in the first place. he was already ahead, he was gaining traction on cruz over the past few weeks, and he had a perfectly good excuse. he could say, well, fox isn't

treating me fairly. >> they did put out the wise guy pr thing. >> that gave him the moment he needed. now he can walk away, not looking like he is rejecting the process, but saying, just like a front-runner said -- >> let me go to david catanese, was anybody smart enough to figure out -- i thought it might happen. i thought there would be a fight between rubio and cruz, because they two and three in this race. a lot of the negative stuff that did not work for cruz, like chris wallace was very strong last night. it was a tough night for cruz. he looks better attacking trump than playing defense, i thought. your thoughts? >> absolutely. i think he had a rough night, because all the arrows were fired at him, first of all, but also, he made that joke in the beginning about trump, calling him a maniac. and that's sort of the audience thought that was funny. but it's harder to hit trump and land a punch when he's not on the stage and he's split-screened at another event. and trump did this from a

position of strerngth. but remember, when he announced doing it, a lot of the political class said, this is risky. how can you do this? how can you thumb your nose in iowans' face? but trump did this from a position of strength, in that he knew he could drive coverage if himself, and that is unique to him. none of those other candidates could do that. but it was also personal for trump. he thought fox news went too far with that statement and he was going to punish him. and i was at his rally, and he said, he sort of made the parallel to dealing with iran, which, you know, you can roll your eyes at, but he said, look, you can't let people treat you badly. you've got to punish them. you've got to be tough. and that reinforces his brand. >> well, you know, it's like haggling at business. if you go to the middle east, it's just the way things you are. you have to be willing to walk away. and at that point the guy says, come on back, we can do something here. you have to go to that point. anyway, taking a victory lap, trump appeared to revel in cruz's rough night. here's what he said at a rally

in new hampshire today. >> he got really pummeled last night. actually, i'm glad he wasn't there. because he got pummeled! wow. and you know, day didn't even mention that he was born in canada, right? you know, it's -- when you're born in canada, you're not supposed to be running for president of the united states. prime minister of canada, no problem. no, no. he can run for canada. ted cruz may not be a u.s. citizen, right? but he's an anchor baby. no, he's an anchor baby -- ted cruz is a anchor baby in canada. it is a problem for him, by the way. i think that's one of the reasons he's crashing. i think that's one of the reasons he's a nervous wreck, too. he's figuring, what the hell happened? he's a citizen of candidate, and he was a senator from texas. and he's a citizen of canada, joint with the u.s. how the hell does that work? >> david catanese is appalled. you all watch "goodfellas," he says everything twice. cruz everything three or four or five times. david, why does it work?

why doesn't it sound redundant and stupid and yet it works for him. he's born in canada. he says it over and over and people seem to laugh every time he says it. >> because he's just talking. he's talking. he's just talking like a conversation. he doesn't go up there with a teleprompter or a script. rarely does he use notes. and he's good at it. he's good at it because he's a performer. look, i think also what happened is, those lines that you just played there, in not going to the debate, trump deprived cruz of being able to come back with a witty response, right? he could go at -- he can go at cruz at these rallies by himself and he knows he's going to get coverage, but cruz is a smart guy. he would have had a line for trump responding to him on it, like he did the prior debate, saying, hey, your mom was born overseas. you might be ineligible, too. >> well, that's absurd. that's an absurd -- >> -- deprived him of the opportunity. >> anyway, i thought chris wallace was very good last night. i loved it when he said, "it is

an debate." >> and wallace was able to -- check the issue here. wallace was able to sit there and take cruz on and argue with him -- >> manno i manno. >> nobody tried to star, but i thought chris was very strong. david catanese, thank you. thank you, paul singer. our coverage of the iowa caucuses continues this weekend. of course, join me at 5:00 p.m. eastern on sunday night, sunday night, for a special edition of "hardball," sunday night, i'll be joey two-times, following that, a two-our prime-time show, i'll be with brian williams and rachel, rachel maddow, for complete coverage on the eve of the iowa caucuses. that's from 8:00 to 10:00. also, it's 5:00 sunday and 8 to 10:00 sunday night. back in the headlines, hillary clinton's e-mails back in the news again. the state department says 22 of her e-mails from her server are considered top secret. the clinton campaign is pushing back. they're saying, of course, they were declared top secret after she sent them.

we'll get the latest. plus, "the biggest loser," no doubt, donald trump stole the show last night and ted cruz had a target on his back. "the des moines register" put it bluntly, rough night for cruz. the texas senator hopes to leave iowa a winner, but can he find victory after a bruising from his fellow republicans? also, weekend with bernie on the democratic side of the race. polls are close, too close for comfort for hillary clinton, and as the clock ticks down, she and sanders are going at it. could bernie pull off a one-two punch? wins in iowa and then in new hampshire? and closing arguments, the countdown is on, so just what are the final sales pitches from these candidates, democrat and republican? and what could bring this fight down to the wire monday night? well, the last-minute advertising, of course, on television. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ ♪ but i can't come home right now... ♪ ♪ me and the boys are playing.♪. ♪ ... all nig♪t

text beth, what can i do... [siri:] message. pick up milk. oh, right. milk. introducing the newly redesigned passat. from volkswagen. you stay up. you listen. you laugh. you worry. you do whatever it takes to take care of your family. and when it's time to plan for your family's future, we're here for you. we're legalzoom, and for over 10 years we've helped families just like yours with wills and living trusts. so when you're ready, start with us. doing the right thing has never been easier. legalzoom. legal help is here. with just a short time until the iowa caucuses now, this is not the kind of story hillary clinton was hoping to see. the state department said 22 mails from clinton's private

server have been marked top secret and will not be released to the public. it's the first time entire e-mails from clinton's server were deemed too sensitive to share with the public. clinton's spokesperson called the move over-classification run amok. nbc's kristen welker joins us now from des moines with the latest. how do we put this in perspective? these things? do we know whether they were marked top-secret before or after they were sent? do we even know that? >> well, the state department saying they believe at this point these e-mails were marked classified after the fact. top-secret after the fact. i think you're asking the right question, though, chris. how do we put this into a broader perspective? let's take a step back. the state department has released several batches of secretary clinton's e-mails. in each case, we have seen parts of the -- several e-mails deemed classified or top-secret, and the state department decides to redact or withhold parts of those e-mails. in this case, as you rightfully point out, they've decided that 22 e-mails are top-secret in their entirety, so they are

withholding those e-mails completely. the clinton campaign pushing back, and saying, look, these e-mails were classified after the fact, that secretary clinton never sent or received any information that was classified or top-secret. i'll read you part of a statement released by brian fallon. he says, quote, we firmly believe this is ove over-classification run amok. we will see all of her e-mails are released consistent with her call last year. as you'll remember, she did call for all of her e-mails to be released. she wants this essentially to be off of the table, as a political issue. but now, of course, this information coming just days before the all-important iowa caucuses, and the race here could not be tighter. we've looked at the past five polls. secretary clinton leads in three of those polls, bernie sanders leads in two of those polls. this is really a jump ball. and of course, the last thing the clinton campaign wants right now is any type of negative headline that could influence

caucusgoers. that's the big question. how will they respond to this? that's the great unknown at this point, chris. i've been talking to voters throughout the day. of course, young voters are the key to this. a quick anecdote, i interviewed two college students, both are leading towards bernie sanders. i asked them if they were going to caucus on monday? one said, i don't think so, i have class. the other said, i think so, i'm going to try to get there. that's how volatile this is, but any headline, any change in the headlines could influence voters. >> it gets to the whole question of electability. if something goes down, you know, the shoe drops in this case two months from now, you could argue it's a big problem for hillary clinton. anyway, thank you, kristen welker. anyway, "hardball" is back after this. it swallow seven people. seven. i just wish one of those people could have been mrs. johnson. [dog bark] trust me, we're dealing with a higher intelligence here. ♪ the all-new audi q7 is here.

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welcome back to "hardball." well, the front page of "the des moines register" punched him pretty hard. tough night for cruz, with donald trump boycotting the debate, senator ted cruz came under fire from multiple fronts last night, and with just a short time until the caucuses,

trump's number one competition in iowa seemed to be hobbled. >> the only budget that ted has ever voted for is a budget that rand paul sponsored that brags about cutting defense spending. >> what is particularly insulting, though, is that he is the king of saying, oh, you're from amnesty, everybody's amnesty, except for ted cruz, but it's a falseness. and that's an authenticity problem, that everybody he knows is not as perfect for him because we're all for amnesty. >> this is the lie that ted cruz's campaign is built upon, that he's the most conservative guy and everyone else is a rhino. the truth is, ted, throughout this campaign, you've been willing to say or do anything in order to get votes. you helped design george w. bush's immigration policy and now you want to trump trump on immigration. but we're not going to beat hillary clinton with someone who's willing to say or do anything to win an election. >> putting the knife in him. nbc's hallie jackson is in iowa covering the trump campaign. john feehery is a republican strategist and jeremy peters writes for "the new york times." hallie, give me a sense.

did cruz people expect this assault from every direction? >> reporter: yeah, they weren't surprised by it. senator cruz had been preparing for that once it was clear that trump would probably be -- not be on that debate stage. it became clear that the person who then took center stage, ted cruz, then the front-runner, was going to be facing that incoming fire. you know, the headline, i asked him about that. "the des moines register" headline, saying he had a rough night, and cruz did what he often does, which is pivot to hitting the media, saying he's not surprised that the mainstream media wouldn't have liked his performance. what matters to him, he says, was getting out here, turning out the vote, making sure that those caucusgoers show up on monday. we spent a little time with our crews down at his campaign headquarters here in iowa. they talk all the time about their nearly 12,000 volunteers, more than 10,000 volunteers getting out there and making phone calls and really working it on the ground. and the cruz campaign will need that to actually happen in order to pull out a strong showing here monday. >> what about his attacks -- i wouldn't call them attacks, but questioning of the moderators last night, going after chris

wallace, and -- >> reporter: well, yeah. >> he really did complain -- he said they were ganging up, setting up all the questions so somebody would fire against him. and that didn't quite work. here it is. he repeatedly challenged moderator chris wallace over the rules. let's watch that. >> chris, i was mentioned in that question -- >> no, your name wasn't mentioned, ted -- >> i don't think your name was mentioned -- now, sir, i -- >> your question -- >> i think the vote -- >> sir -- >> -- what was it? >> it's not my question you get a chance to respond to, it's his answer. you don't get a chance to attack me. >> you'll notice the last four questions have been, rand, please attack ted, marco, please attack ted. >> it is a debate, sir. >> you know, i think he thought that it would have the same impact in the last debate. remember last time, he cobbled together all the questions by the moderators, and showed how -- cnbc medical recordoderad they were trying to cause cage

fights. this time he did the exact same thing and the crowd didn't go with him. and then he made that little joke, with i'll have to leave. >> he came off as a whiner. the fact that donald trump was not on stage gave everyone a chance to focus on ted cruz and everyone dislikes ted cruz much more than they like donald trump. and i think that came off with the moderators and all the opponents on stage. it was a good opportunity for everybody to pile on ted. >> jeremy, does your reporting go into that level of detail about who likes and dislikes? i think it's interesting that they didn't seem to have any problem facing him. i know that marco rubio is a very strong debater, too. and he faced him. he like, looked at him. and they looked back at each other. it is man kno y mano, your thoughts? >> the amount of debate prep that marco rubio has been doing over this last week is incredible. it's been intensive, it's been almost every single day. he takes time on the campaign buses. he's crisscrossing iowa to do it. so he was ready for this. i mean, was there anybody on that stage who liked ted cruz?

it certainly wasn't apparent to me that there were. and judging by their reactions today, when a lot of them, trump, rubio, huckabee, rand paul, they almost relished attacking him and piling on, and bringing up just how poorly he fared in the debate. >> let's go with something -- >> you know what, chris? >> go ahead, hallie. >> i was just going to jump in on this likability issue. it is something that the campaign is a i ware is a vulnerability for cruz. and here's what's interesting, heidi cruz, his wife, was on the campaign trail today and spoke very forcefully to the crowd about likability, hitting it really hard. she says, he is likable. he's likable to voters. he's not likable to people who are betraying you in washington. she said she told stories about him bringing her flowers. it seemed to be a charm offensive by heidi cruz, to try to turn some of that narrative around. >> that's smart. anyway, jeremy, you report today in "the new york times" that the rubio camp hopes that a trump victory on monday will bolster rubio's standing as the only acceptable alternative for republican votes.

here's the piece, the florida senator and his advisers have concluded that a head-to-head battle with mr. trump over the next several weeks would be much more advantageous than one with senator cruz of texas, whose success would greatly complicate mr. rubio's hopes of consolidating his support inside the republican party. a victory by mr. trump would send panicked republicans towards mr. rubio and his campaign. i think that's very insightful, and i get this sense that rubio, who is mr. preparation, as hallie pointed, everything is about preparation, in fact, to the point, everything seems like a recitation, even, the way he talks, is that he's planning to be the last saloon for the establishment. here's the last-chance saloon. if you don't like trump, you've got to go with this guy. you may have problems with, he may be too young, too perky, whatever, but he's the guy. tell us more about what you were thinking in putting that piece together today. >> it's not only hard for marco rubio to get the nomination with john kasich, jeb bush, and chris

christie in the way, but it's hard for him to do it with ted cruz in the way. but actually, you wouldn't think this, but cruz and rubio have a lot of overlap in terms of the voters that are attracted to both of them. so if cruz is there, rubio can't appeal to those voters. more importantly, the donors that rubio really needs to fight this long slog that he envisions for the rest of the campaign, he needs money to do that. and those people that would fund his campaign are right now with either jeb bush or other candidates and he sees a trump victory as a way of helping him consolidate the support of those donors who would be panicked by trump winning >> well said. thank you so much, hallie jackson, thank you john feehery and jeremy peters. coming up, weekend with bernie. the polls are neck and neck out there in iowa on the democratic side. can bernie sanders pull off an iowa upset? this is "hardball," the place for politics. -needles of diabetic nerve pain, these feet served my country, carried the weight of a family, and walked a daughter down the aisle. but i couldn't bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer.

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i've been in many campaigns, and you ask the people of vermont, they will tell you, bernie sanders has never run a negative ad. i hate and detest these 30-second negative ads. >> i've never run a negative ad in my life. >> are you going to run a negative ad against hillary clinton? >> no. >> what's the difference between a negative and a contrast ad? >> it depends, number one, whether you're telling the truth or not. >> i like the way he looked over his classes there at kacey. bernie sanders has repeatedly spoken out about negative ads, but his campaign on thursday released a new tv spot that nails hillary clinton, at least by inference, for the speaking fees she's received from goldman sachs. here it is. >> goldman sachs just settled with authorities for their part in the crisis that put 7 million out of work and millions out of their homes. how does wall street get away with it? millions in campaign contributions and speaking fees. as long as washington is bought and paid for, we can't build an economy that works for people.

>> i'm bernie sanders and ai approved this message. >> senator sanders has maintained that the ad was not negative, but here's what he told nbc's andrea mitchell. >> why isn't that a negative ad? >> does it mention hillary clinton? >> nope. >> does it have any image of hillary clinton? >> nope. aren't you suggesting she's bought by wall street? >> i'm not suggesting anything at all. >> he's not suggesting anything at all, he said. this comes as nevada journalist john ralston reports that sanders' campaign volunteers have been posing as culinary union members to approach and try to influence the vote ahead of the nevada caucuses. quote, culinary officials have been made aware of the faux union workers at four hotels. the sanders' campaigners are wearing the distinctive yellow local 226 pins, implying they are union members, to gain access to employee dining rooms. beyond the obvious deception, union officials surely are also concerned about the implication that the organization has endorsed sanders, despite its recent pledge to remain neutral

until after the caucus. i'm joined by the man who brought that story, kasie hunt, wells john ralston, host of "the ralston report." just explain this. why would volunteers or operatives for bernie sanders sneak into a lunchroom where workers, culinary workers at the hotels out there, have lunch? what are they up to? >> well, chris, there are thousands of workers, as you know, on the las vegas strip, and they're going to be, at least, i think, half a dozen caucus sites on february 20th on the strip. and so these workers are going to be on their breaks, able to go and vote in the caucus. and so this is a target-rich environment. but this was incredibly sneaky of the sanders' people. and these casinos, as you may remember, from 2008, were war zones back then, too, when the culinary union did what it's not doing this year, and they endorsed barack obama very early. bill and hillary clinton went crazy. bill clinton called the chairman of one of the most prominent

casinos is, kirk kakorian and said they're up to no good in the casinos and it's not fair. so now the sanders people are doing this to the clinton campaign know about it. they did something i've never heard of being done during one of these elections. >> reminds you of the 1940s when you real labor wars. let me go over to kasie on the other news story. that's the ad being put out by senator sanders, clearly there's a reference between hillary clinton taking that 600,000 in speaking fees from goldman sachs, which bernie sanders talks about all the time, and an ad that talks about speaking fees from goldman sachs. i mean, how do you not say that's about hillary? >> i think it's definitely a stretch. and bernie sanders has used this attack on hillary clinton over the course of the campaign, talking about these speaking fees. so the stretch is not very difficult. and the sanders' campaign did wrestle with this question. and you can see sanders himself in some ways wrestling with how

negative he wants to go. the idea that he doesn't run negative ads is very important to the political brand that he has, to what he's selling, to people. and so, if he calls negative, too aggressively, there's some risk there, for him. but there's also some risk in not doing it. if you look at how secretary clinton could potentially be attacked, this idea, first of all, on the speaking fees, and second of all, on political calculation and whether or not she's being honest. it's that honesty and trustworthiness number. that's the attack you're hearing from sanders on the campaign trail. at rallies this week, she talked about how she switched her position over the years on doma, for example, or on trade. he, basically, insinuating that she's just doing it because it's politically convenient. that's something we see in the polling, resonates with these voters. the question is, how far is he willing to go at this point to try to lock up these iowa caucuses. >> well, staying with you for a second, kasie, is he going for a knockout? it looks like he's moving ahead of her in iowa right now, from back here, in washington.

and if he's moving ahead, why he's taking the risk of looking like the kind of politician he doesn't want to be seen as. a negative politician. and why would he take a risk, unless he wants to make sure he wins out in iowa. and then he makes sure he wins in places like nevada, very early on, because he wants to knock her out in the first two or three races, so he doesn't have to go to the long haul with it. that's what he seems to be making the risk toward, your thinking? >> the other thing that's been going on, too, he's sending mailers to people in iowa who have logos for the eaaarp and t league of conservation mailers. doesn't necessarily say he's gotten endorsements from these groups. and the league of conservation voters has endorsed hillary clinton and specifically asked the sanders' campaign to take their logo off these mailers. so clearly there's more to this story and more going on at this point. but i do think the question for him is if he wants to take this all the way home, does he want to look back and say, he didn't do everything possible. i would say, dirty campaign is

in one category. attacking your rival is in another category. that's obviously something that happens all the time in political campaigns. i don't think anyone is necessarily making a moral judgment about that one way or the other. but, you know, i think that he just has the to decide, okay, am i going to put it all in? and i will say, while he's been on the rise over the course of the last month, month and a half, the sense on the ground right now from both sides is that hillary seems to have the light sedge going into the last final weekend of campaigning. >> i shouldn't have said "dirty," i should have said "negative." but to your point, the way he talks to you in that interview, he seems to talk as if that's really dirty, that's the kind of thing he would donan't do. john, what do you see the nevada outlook? can you see a trajectory coming out of iowa? suppose it's very tight in iowa and bernie ins in new hampshire. what happens in nevada? >> that's a very interesting question, chris. hillary clinton's campaign has been here much longer than bernie sanders. she has hired a lot of people

from both her own campaign in '08 and obama's successful campaign in '08. they know nevada. they've been here for about a year now. bernie sanders came in late. his people don't know as much about the state. but it's going to depend, as you and kasie were talking about, what happens if he does go all out and ends up eking out a victory in iowa? he's going to probably win new hampshire. he's got all that momentum. don't forget in the caucus here, on the democratic side, they're going all out to get huge attendance. there's same-day registration. i think there's a fear in the clinton campaign that a lot of those new registrants might be young people who might be bernie folks. so i think she has the advantage, but i don't think it's a lock, by any means. >> she wanted it years ago and i'm sure she wants to win it again this time. thank you, kasie hunt and john ralston. the candidate's final sales pitches as the clock winds down to the iowa caucuses on monday, coming up. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. e orders wer.

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i'm richard lui with your hour's top stories. the rush is on in iowa. with just two days until the caucuses, a dozen candidates hitting the ground hard across the state today. democratic front-runner hillary clinton and gop john kasich picking up endorsement of "the new york times" earlier today. donald trump also on the trail, holding an event earlier in clinton, iowa, where he defended his decision to duck out of thursday's republican debate, which was the last face-off before monday's contest. now back to "hardball with chris matthews." we don't need another gridlocked political debate that divides us. if we are specific and focused and passionate about what we can get done, that's exactly what

i'm offering you and offering you to support on monday when you go to caucus. >> welcome back to "hardball." it's go-time, of course. that was hillary clinton making her closing argument and final push in iowa, ahead of monday's caucuses. the crucial first test in the fight for the democratic nomination. it's also one that hillary lost eight years ago. her challenge from the upstart campaign of bernie sanders is putting clinton on the ropes and sanders in the waning hours is taking it to the democratic front-runne front-runner. >> it is great to be against the war after you vote for the war. it is great to be for gray righs after you insult the entire gay community by supporting doma. it is great to finally, kicking and screaming, come out against the tpp, but where were you on all of the other trade

agreements? >> it's go-time for both parties, with candidates hoping their final pitches deliver a win. joining me right now is the "hardball" roundtable. tonight, michelle bernard, jonathan allen author of "hrc," about hillary, and molly hemingway is the senior editor of "the federalist." john, i have the sense it's a nascar race and bernie is just now passing hillary in iowa, right there. but somebody told he me needs an extra bit of juice. so he's doing this negative ad. it's not going to make him look good. negative ads don't make you look good, but they do sometimes get you that thing you need the last weekend. >> i think there's two things at work here. number one, he knows he needs to make a contrast and say, i'm different enough about hillary clinton that you should care about the differences between us. number two, he's signaling to democrats that he should take on republicans in a general election. he's not just going to stick a base daisy in the barrel of their gun. >> a '60s phrase? >> it's retro friday. >> if you're going to san francisco, wear a flower in your

hair. >> bernie wants to show he's got some muscle. >> why risk a negative ad when you think you're mr. perfect, why jam it? >> first of all, i got to tell you, i don't see that as a negative ad. >> what? the way they avoided prosecution was the fat guys in new york got away with it because they paid off people with speaking fees, ie hillary clinton? with the 600k they gave her? >> but the way he says it, for example, does not come off as other ads we have seen, as most definitely a negative ad. >> who else could he be talking about? >> well, he's talking about hillary clinton, but it doesn't -- when it comes from bernie sanders, i don't think that most voters see it as a negative ad. i think it is a brilliant strategy and when bernie sanders, who has defended hillary clinton in debates, you know, leave her alone, stop talking about the e-mails, nobody wants to hear about it. when he makes a comment like what he did or an insinuation about hillary clinton, people also remember that this is a man who was chivalrous and stood up for her. >> many a night, i've gotten

here, reported, and shown tape of bernie sanders going after her three speaking fees he got from goldman sachs. new he closes with the argument, that's how they evaded prosecution. giving speak fee money out. it's not a question whether you should be taking money from wall street, he's saying that's why they weren't prosecuted. because people like hillary clinton took that 600,000 bucks. i think it was a negative ad. your thoughts? >> first of all, going negative is one of the few tried and true methods to actually gain ground when you are in a tight race. some polls have him ahead, some have him slightly behind. it might be a gamble that pays off. but i don't think it was a terribly negative ad. this is a guy who has treated hillary clinton with kid dplogl. he's merely pointing out that the excitement around his campaign is about rejection of crony capitalism. you're seeing this on both sides of the aisle. people are sick and tired the about the way big business works with government -- >> what i was laughing at before is what constituted a negative ad in the democratic primary, right? so if you're barack obama, you say, change you can believe in. you can believe in me. not, "she's a liar." but it's basically the same

message. it's just democrats don't want to hear that in their primaries the for whatever reason. >> the roundtable staying with me. and up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. this is "hardball." ...reinvented. sophistication... ...redefined. introducing the all-new lexus rx and rx hybrid. agile handling. available 12.3-inch navigation screen and panorama glass roof. never has luxury been this expressive. this is the pursuit of perfection. the possibility of a flare swas almost always on my mind. thinking about what to avoid, where to go... and how to deal with my uc. to me, that was normal. until i talked to my doctor. she told me that humira helps people like me get uc under control and keep it under control when certain medications haven't worked well enough.

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come join us out in iowa as "hardball" covers the caucuses live from des moines. our coverage begins sunday night at 5:00 p.m. eastern with a special edition of "hardball," live from java joe's. and join us at 8:00 p.m., when i'll join brian williams and rachel maddow for complete msnbc coverage previewing monday's main event. and we'll be right back. i take prilosec otc each morning

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and marco rubio, who have fairly minor flip-flops, imagine what they would have had -- >> the only problem is that roger and his people made the mistake of giving him what he needed, an overt reason not to show up, which is they made fun of him. >> they should have shown the videotape in in case. >> i thought they were going to do that -- i thought they were going to ask those questions out loud that they had prepared. in fact, megyn was going to have her questions prepared and throw them out to the general direction of donald trump. jonathan? >> i was out in des moines last week and the best swag on the campaign trail is definitely ted cruz's. his super pacs are inundating people with all kinds of things, particularly these t-shirts with ted cruz's faces on them, that say, "choose cruz." a lot of campaigns want people to buy things from them. cruz, his super pac is giving them away. >> wow. >> maybe because nobody wants them. that might be a reason. so. >> tell me something i don't know. >> in order to tell you -- so i'm going to be talking about flint, because you know how upset i am about it. on january 2nd, flint, michigan,

officials, that are poisoning people, i just want to quote them, real quickly. sent out a memo that said, although the water in flint failed to meet treatment requirements, there -- i quote now, there is nothing you need to do unless you have severely compromised immune system, have an infant, or are elderly. however, recent reports have shown that flint, michigan,'s administration -- the governor's administration felt differently about state employees and long before they ever admitted there was a problem with the water in flint, they were providing state employees with bottled water. >> wow. >> that is a problem. >> that is the kind of stuff that happens in bad countries. >> yep. >> anyway, thank you so much. our roundtable, michelle bernard, jonathan allen, and molly hemingway. coming up, some dessert on this friday night. donald trump's all-time greatest quotations. we'll end with that tonight. "hardball" back after this. . one second it's there. then, woosh, it's gone. i swear i saw it swallow seven people. seven. i just wish one of those people could have been mrs. johnson.

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we're back. and from his days honchoing the reality tv boardroom to the presidential campaign trail itself, donald trump has immeshed himself and his brand in our collective psyche. he's huge. well, journalist carol pogash has condenseded some of trump's most memorable lines into a new book titled "quotations from chairman trump." trump has surprised us all throughout his campaign with statements like that of -- or unlike those of any candidate before him. >> apologizing is a great thing, but you have to be wrong.

i will absolutely apologize some time in the hopefully distant future if i'm ever wrong. >> it's not been easy for me. it has not been easy for me. and you know, i started off in brooklyn. my father gave me a small loan of $1 million. >> how stupid are the people of iowa? how stupid are the people of the country to believe this crap? >> rand paul shouldn't even be on this stage. he's number 11. he's got 1% in the polls, and how he got up here, there's far too many people anyway. >> carol, thank you for joining us. it's a very good-looking little book, by the way. us journalists should carry it around to see how bad he gets. did you study the quotations of chairman moa, because it does look like the little red book right here. >> well, i didn't really study it, but here are the similarities, yes, here are both of them. >> how about the thinking of the two men, the ego of the two men. would you compare the two? >> somewhat, yes. that's what made me think about

that. trump has a sense, this grandiosity about them, and they both have, you know, trump also has that authoritarian streak. you know, i just was so astonished by the things that trump was saying and it just came to me that it's so similar to, you know, the quotes of chairman mau. >> so has he gotten ahold of this book yet? we probably would love this on his airplane with him. like having the gidon bible aboard the plane. >> one of the illustrations i have is of trump holding the book up and reading it because i think his only consultant is himself. i don't think he's seen it yet, because the hardbound copy only came out this week. i would be interest in his response. he'll probably tweet an attack on me. >> thank you so much for coming on and giving us the first good shot at this. the book is called "quotations from chairman trump." everybody's going to buy this thing. that's "hardball" for now. and thanks for being with us. don't forget our special sunday edition of "hardball" at 5:00 p.m. eastern live from java

joe's, a great restaurant out in des moines, iowa. and at 8:00 p.m., i'll be joined and joining brian williams and rachel maddow for prime-time coverage ahead of monday's caucuses. have a great weekend, it's going to be a short weekend, because we're getting into politics fast on sunday. >> trump! >> when do we want him? >> now! >> trump is right. and americans know he's right. >> when mexico sends its people, they're bringing drugs. they're bringing crime. they're rapists. >> trump is acting in a very old and shameful american tradition. every so often, like a fever, anti-immigrant feeling arises. >> excuse me, sit down. you weren't called. sit down. >> what you see is what you get. he's genuine. he's the real deal. he has tapped into a part of the electoratet