>> she has the entire establishment or almost the entire establishment behind her. that's a fact. >> a woman running to be the first woman president as exemplifying the establishment. it's quite amusing to me. >> instead of arguing about definitions, let's talk about what we should. >> do well, you began it yesterday with your comments. >> let's talk about what we should do.

one of the things we should do is not only talk the talk but walk the walk. >> enough is enough, if you've got something to say, say it directly. >> when we both looked at the same evidence about the wisdom of the war the iraq, one of us voted the right way and one of us didn't. >> we did differ. a vote in 2002 is not a plan to defeat isis. we have to look at the threats we face right now. >> well, good morning. it is friday, february 5, welcome to "morning joe." with us on set we have msnbc's steve kornacki, donny deutsch is with us -- what the hell are you wearing -- and in new hampshire, the managing editor of bloomberg politics, john heilemann. in denver, jon meacham along with willie, joe, and me. what a debate last night. >> great. >> i loved it. >> fantastic. >> i'm sorry, rachel and chuck were awesome. i don't usually start with something like that, but that was the best debate i've seen this cycle. >> they let the players play.

>> it was not about them. they asked questions, they went back, they asked follow-up and then they let the candidates talk and the candidates, willie, both brought their a-game. >> they did and the one on one format, which we haven't seen in this election cycle, you're reminded this is what a debate is supposed to look like, not 10 people shouting at each other on the stage. chuck and rachel -- i say this as a complement -- you forget they were there. >> they weren't needy, they were fantastic. you see in other debates where the moderators become the story. this was about the candidates. hillary clinton and bernie sanders faced often in the candidates'-only debate in new hampshire before votes are cast. in some of their most contentious exchanges of the campaign thus far, the two sparred over who best embodies progressive values. what it means to be a part of the establishment and the role of money in politics. >> what being part of the

establishment is in the last quarter having a super pac that raised $15 million from wall street, that throughout one's life raised a whole lot of money from the drug companies and other special interests. >> it's fair to really ask what's behind that comment. you know, senator sanders has said he wants to run a positive campaign. i've tried to keep my disagreements over issues as it should be. but time and time again by innuendo, by insinuation, there is this attack that he is putting forth which really comes down to you know, anybody who ever took donations or speaking fees from any interest group has to be bought and i just absolutely reject that, senator. and i don't think these kind of attacks by insinuation are worthy of you and enough is

enough. if you've got something to say, say it directly but you will not find that i ever changed a view or a vote because of any do nation that i ever received. [ applause ] and i have stood up and i have represented my constituents to the best of my ability and i'm proud of that. so i think it's time to end the very artful smear that you and your campaign have been carrying out in recent weeks. >> oh! >> and let's talk about the issues. >> let's talk about issues. all right, let's talk about why, in the 1990s, wall street got deregulated. did it have anything to do with the fact that wall street provided by -- spent billions of dollars on lobbying and campaign contributions? well, some people might think, yeah, that had some influence. let's ask why it is that we pay

by far the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs and your medicine can be doubled tomorrow and there's nothing that the government can do to stop it. do you think it has anything to do with the huge amounts of campaign contributions and lobbying from the fossil fuel industry? let's talk about climate change. do you think there is a reason why not one republican has the guts to recognize that that climate change is real and that we need to transform our energy system? do you think it has anything to do with the koch brothers and exxonmobil pouring huge amounts of money into the political system? that is what goes on in america. i am not -- i like -- [ cheers and applause ] >> you're the one who voted to deregulate swaps and derivatives in 2000, which contributed to the overleveraging of lehman brothers which was one of the culprits that brought down the economy. so i don't know, i'm not impugning your motive because

you voted to deregulate swaps and derivative, people make mistakes and i'm certainly not saying you did it for any kind of financial advantage. >> i think as secretary clinton knows, there is nobody who fought harder -- i was on the house financial committee at that point. i heard the arguments coming from democrats and republicans, robert rubin, alan greenspan, about how great an idea it would be if we did away with glass-steagall and if we allowed investor banks and commercial banks and big insurance companies to merge. go to youtube today, look up "greenspan, sanders." listen to what i told them then. i helped lead the effort against deregulation. unfortunately, we lost that. the result is, was, the worst financial disaster since the great depression. >> all right. so much to go through here. i thought hillary clinton was

amazing. she was unbelievably prepared and she was very artful in making an honest, serious election question, transforming it into an attack on her which almost, almost made -- until she called it an artful smear and people didn't buy it. bernie never went in for the kill with her. she actually kept it big picture and i think ultimately the audience loved that. >> he wins that way. >> he wins that way. >> everybody knew there were so many times you're going "is he not going to take that punch?" and he set back and he almost let the facts and her own words -- you said she did great. >> she did. >> she did well in a lot of part. >> it was a real debate. >> but there was hypocrisy dripping from that answer. first of all, an "artful smear." for bernie sanders simply saying about hillary clinton what hillary clinton said about herself in september a few months ago that she was a moderate and being shocked and stunned and deeply saddened that bernie sanders is telling the

truth as the "wall street journal" said today, wall street has had no better friend over the past decade as far as democrats go, steve kornacki, than hick. no better friend than hillary clinton. for her to accuse bernie sanders of smearing her and it goes to glass-steagall as well. hillary clinton is sitting will attacking bernie sanders for what bill clinton and hillary clinton were the champion of. no, she didn't vote for it. she and president clinton aggressively lobbied for it. >> but the -- >> i'm sorry, the other one there, though, you say maybe he missed opportunities or you're saying why isn't he going back onner? the one that jumped out on me is when she basically says i can take these contributions, i can take these speaking fees but the suggestion that i would ever change my position or i would ever do something different because of it, she was indignant at that suggestion.

but there is the story of the bankruptcy bill in hillary clinton in the late 1990s when she was first lady. elizabeth warren has told this story publicly about how as first lady hillary clinton was on team elizabeth warren then she runs from the senate, gobbles up cash from wall street, goes to the senate and switches side. now is it literally because of the campaign contributions? who knows, but it's a suspicious turnaround. >> very suspicious turnaround and you have to clinton foundation situations that we talked about six months ago where massive amounts of money were involved there, too. chuck todd, and by the way, i tweeted this last night, i haven't been able to tweet this about many moderators this election cycle and chuck todd and rachel maddow were amazing. >> i was up all night, it was so exciti exciting. i was electrified. i'm a nerd. >> it was the best debate. >> i think so. >> ever. >> and, you know, usually politicians will say things on stage and you'll be pulling your

hair out going "why don't they do the follow-up question? what were you watching before? hoosiers?" >> and they were like boom, boom, boom. >> and here is chuck todd doing the same thing: and pushing on an issue that should have been pushed on. chuck todd asked hillary clinton if she would release the transcripts of her paid speeches through the years. is a simple question. watch. >> are you willing to release the transcripts of all your paid speeches? we do know through reporting that there were prescription services for all of those paid speeches. in full disclosure, would you release all of them? >> i will look into it. i don't know the status but i will look into it. but i can only repeat what is the fact, that i spoke a lot of different groups with a lot of different constituent, a lot of different kinds of members about issues that had to do with world affairs. i'd probably described more

times than i can remember how stressful it was, advising the president about going after bin laden. so my view on this is look at my record. look at what i am proposing: and we don't -- we have a vigorous agreement here. we both want to rein in the excesses of wall street. >> hillary clinton just said "we both want to rein in the excesses of wall street." steve kornacki, again, i will ask you. how does a person who's been wall street's biggest friend over the past decade say that with a straight face. >> this has been her biggest vulnerability in this campaign. it's the biggest reason bernie sanders has been able to get traction, it's that she's vulnerable on this and it's to the democratic base that is so angry with wall street, he comes off as so credible on this. the thing i'm struck by here is we're analyzing this debate last night is yes, she was very strong in terms of her

presentation and style last night. >> preparation. >> that said. think of every clip we've shown. what is the turf that this is being fought over? wall street, the economy. it's being fought on bernie sanders turf. >> in short, it's being fought on democratic turf. >> my head is -- you won't even go to me! we have a ton of polls coming up, i can't wait to go to him because, man -- >>? d d donny is bursting at the seams of his pink suit right now. >> what were you watching? >> i was watching a grown-up -- wear pink. >> and an ideologue. guess what? hillary is running for president and the president of this country actually is going to have a relationship with wall street. we here in a grown up world. one guy's solution to foreign affairs -- >> can you say we're in a grown up world when you're wearing this suit in february? >> i'm so confident in my

opinions i can wear this suit. >> sometimes you can be too confident. >> bernie sanders, break up the bank, break up wall street, i didn't vote for isis and everybody should go to college. on the other side i saw a grown-up. a potential commander in chief. guess what? maybe to the left wing of this party in a few primaries it won't work but if you want to get elected president and you want this country to work you need main street and wall street. this is the world we live in. can we grow up already? >> so you're saying it's all okay and it wasn't a question. >> so she made speeches to goldman sachs and you're on the speakers' circuit. this is not what this country is about if she gave a few speeches. >> donny, let us see the speeches. would you release them? >> i have never given a speech in front of a kiwanis club or university or anywhere elsewhere you couldn't release the transcripts and i can explain everything. the bigger problem, john heilemann, she can't release the transcripts from goldman sachs because the executives of goldman sachs came out glowing saying "finally we have somebody

who understands that we've been misunderstood through this entire banking crisis." as ezra klein said the reason clinton doesn't have a good answer on her goldman sachs speaking fees is there isn't a good answer aside from "i wanted money." and not only in her pocket, john heilemann, but for the campaign as well. the clintons have used wall street as a cash register for 25 years now. >> and i think the problem -- joe, what the clinton campaign and what secretary clinton wants to say is, look, you can't point to bribes, you can't prototo quid pro quos, you can't point to significant policies where i caved on wall street, i'm in favor of dodd-frank, that reformed wall street and it's fair enough she makes that point, actually, i think, the problem for her is that if you ask the question why were you paid hundreds of thousands of dollars and why did you keep doing these things in the

context of knowing you were going to run for president and that it might create an appearance of impropriety at a minimum, the only answer is because i wanted the money. it doesn't point to corruption, it just points to greed and there's nothing wrong with making money, but she made an awful lot of it. and the fact is the speeches she gave i don't know if there's anything incriminating in the crypts but the speeches she's given are probably not much better than the speech people could have given to that same group so the question becomes what were nay get beg sides the speech? it begs more and more questions. that's why sanders on this issue has painted her so effectively into a corner. >> willie geist, george stephanopoulos said it best, what did they buy they bought acces

access. >> we'll see what she does. let's get to jon meacham. hillary clinton said bernie sanders, yes, he's more progressive but he's living in a fantasy land. he wants to create a utopia. let's get real, guys, these things don't exist. they're nice on paper but they won't happen once you get into the white house when you start negotiating with paul ryan and other people. do you think she made that point effectively? maybe it doesn't win new hampshire because he's got such a big lead in most polls but forward to south carolina and nevada, she can say i'm the pragmatic, the realistic one, i know you like his ideas and enthusiasm but it won't happen in reality. >> yes, i shi she won the pragmatic argument. do you want an fdr story this early or do you want me to wait? >> only if it's so obscure we'll pass out in our oatmeal. >> sheas rebellion. >> i want mika to pop a no-doze

for a second. in the 1930s, a young radical group came to a meeting at the white house to meet with president roosevelt in the new deal. they were frustrated because there wasn't change happening rapidly enough. fdr said to a young questioner "young man, if i thought i could get what i wanted by shouting from the roof tops, i would shout from the roof topps, but it's a different world." so this is an ancient political trope. i think secretary clinton probably wins on the rational side but it's unquestionable to my mind that bernie sanders is winning on the emotional side. to go to something john just said, this is not about quid pro quos. he's winning the emotional argument that this is an ambient culture in which insiders do well by getting along with one poot. so when sanders shifts to the generic argument about the oil companies or the pharmaceutical companies, he's winning that

argument and in some ways the subtleties of the culture of which the clintons have been a part forever and which so many other political figures have been a part -- >> the bushes and the clintons. >> exactly. >> it's the bushes and the clintons and the fact is when bernie sanders speaks it's not just left wick we ares saying i agree with this. >> it's everybody. >> i agree, the system is rigged. k street and wall street have worked together to make sure the rich get richer, to make sure they make extraordinary money on capital they already have. that they make more money just moving paper around in their little 000.1% of the world then 80% of the rest of americans make working their tails off everyday. >> and then he ties it to criminal justice. >> let me just say. the most offensive part about this is when somebody says that

they're accused of being a populist who's demagoguing. >> a crazy. >> no, no, these are the numbers. these are the numbers of the past 25 years and if we want to know why jeb bush is doing so poorly on the republican side and why hillary clinton is struggling on the democratic side fair or not, they represent this system under which the rich have gotten richer and the poor have gotten poorer. and, yes, donniy, i know a lot f republicans that would say break up the banks do what you can to stop the rich from getting richer and the poor from getting poorer at meteoric rates and do it while respecting capitalism. i'll say we do it for the reason alan greenspan says we do it -- to save capitalism from itself i'm not endorsing bernie sanders. you can have a market-oriented approach to this but because i'm a conservative doesn't mean i have that to support five banks

control most of the none in america. >> if you break down any industry -- communications industry, pharmaceutical industry, all these bad big businesses, we have lived in a world of consolidation. who sits judge and jury and says you know what? five media companies is too small. >> you're old enough like me to remember when the bells got broken up. my god look what happened now. it's broken up and people can go around on the internet and move from one company to another company. that's a good idea. i think community banks getting torn to shreds over the past 25, 30 years, a bad thing. people are put last. profits are put first. you can be a free market right wing small government conservative -- >> you sound like a bernie sanders guy. >> no, i don't. let me -- and, by the way, willie, people that don't understand why trump is doing so well is because whether he enunciate this is well or not he gets to the point. like new hampshire's home field territory for him because people in new hampshire more than

anybody else over the past 30 years have been torn to shreds by this. factories have moved overseas and the rich have gotten richer, the poor have gotten poorer. >> donald trump is not part of this establishment. donald trump is outside of this establish. >> hold on, donny. >> you know what's great? donald trump is not part of this establishment. >> not part of this capitalistic establishment. >> oh, come on, you live in manhattan. >> i live near donald trump, i love donald but donald is not outside this universe. >> rhelet's not yell about this. you and i both know, lloyd blankfein who i know and like and jamie dimon who i know and like and consider these guys friends, these guys money from a different circle than donald trump who i know and i like. a completely different circle. the difference between hillary and donald trump is hillary needs their money. donald trump doesn't. bernie sanders doesn't. that's a powerful message in

2016. >> bernie sanders and donald trump are saying the same thing "you all are getting a raw deal." they're saying it differently. they're saying it's because of wall street, trump is saying it's because jobs have left the country and because of china and immigration. what i found astounding last night and i thought hillary was strong but when she said she's not a part of the establishment it's an amazing thing to say. >> those are two separate issues. would it be historic for a woman to be president? sure, that doesn't mean you're not part of the establishment. >> that is like the queen of england saying she's not part of the establishment because she's a woman. >> she was great. though. she was unbelievably prepared. i thought bernie was going to do terribly. i thought she was going to kill him. >> it was a great debate. when he said "wall street equals fraud" i was like you can't say that. and then he starts to explain it and he made perfect sense. he got applause from the

audience and the big picture on his speech issue is you have the big banks, you have large sums of money, huge sums of money being paid to hillary clinton while people who who are the voters, the middle-class -- >> and by the way, a sports analogy, this was ali frazier. this was an amazing debate. both brought strengths. so we'll do other stories -- zblnd. >> and so much more debate. >> more stories, more debates and polls, mika, that show some interesting things on the republican side and the democratic side. other headlines right now in financial news. asian markets came under pressure today. they closed mixed despite a positive finish on wall street yesterday. right now u.s. dow futures are up 10 points. now to a story breaking late last night. two more new york city police officers shot this time while on patrol in the bronx. both officers expected to

survive according to the local affiliate wnbc. in the stairwell of a public housing complex, a man shot at officers after being asked for an i.d. the gunman then ran into the apartment. the suspect was found dead of an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound. now to saudi arabia, a military spokesman says the country is ready to send ground troops to syria to help fight isis. u.s. defense secretary ash carter welcomed to news yesterday saying increased activity by other countries would make it easier for the u.s. to accelerate its fight against isis. finally the world is mourning the loss of another music legend. maurice white, the mastermind behind the genre defying band earth, wind & fire died in his home in los angeles after suffering from parkinson suffering from parkinson's disease.

the band went on to win six grammys and sell 90 million albums with his hits like "shining star," "september" and "boogie wonderland." >> maurice white, incredible. an extraordinary band and extraordinary talent. we'll talk about maurice throughout the show. a real loss. coming up on "morning joe," presidential candidate jeb bush is with us fresh off his mother's campaign appearance with him that was fabulous. is. >> she went there. >> she was great. >> she went there. >> of course she did. >> she's tough. >> she's tough. she's 90 and she's tough. john kasich who has plenty of newspapers backing his bid but what about voters? and carly fiorina who is still fighting far spot on tomorrow's big stage. up next, the woman running the show in new hampshire, republican state chair jennifer horne joins the conversation. and speaking of new hampshire, guess where we're going, guys? we're back live from j.d.'s tavern in manchester beginning this monday. stop by to visit us and see the show live if you're area.

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>> no politician is going to solve it. no politician. these people -- i'd like to use really foul language, i won't do it. i was going to say they're full of [ bleep ] but i won't say that. no, it's true. [ cheers and applause ] it's true. i won't say it. i won't say it. but they are. >> i won't say it. >> and you ask why he's so far ahead in new hampshire. i won't say it and then he says it. that's not right. >> a lot of polls are coming out. a new one coming out, a daily tracking poll coming out at 7:00, but a new poll released shows a bit of the tightening of the race in new hampshire among republicans. the nbc news "wall street journal" poll has donald trump at 30%, still 13 points ahead of marco rubio at 17% but he's up six points since before the caucuses. ted cruz has risen to 15%, john kasich at 10%. jeb bush at 9%. chris christie, ben carson 6%, 4%. this after a new cnn/wmur poll

shows the same result, trump at 29% holding steady. marco up seven, cruz in third place. i want to go to john heilemann, though, because i said yesterday the old expression that a week is a lifetime in politics is -- applies no where more than it does between the week -- between iowa and new hampshire where everyday is literally a month and you look and we still have a third of the electorate undecided. yesterday the two people that had the most heat going for him, ted cruz and marco rubio both have had their worst days on the campaign trail. marco, for something that marco didn't say but ted cruz still dealing with a hell of a lot of scar tissue coming out of his win in iowa. he won ugly and it seems like it might blunt his momentum.

talk about the bizarre day yesterday where the two guys that were the hottest got cooled dow down. >> i think both of those guys didn't have their best days but neither one of them had a disastrous day. marco rubio had to deal with the fact that rick santorum on your show yesterday was unable to come up with a accomplishment. rubio put out a list of what he said were his biggest accomplishments and it was pretty thin beer and he had to answer questions about that. but right now i think the story on rubio continues to be upward momentum. despite a lot of attacks by other candidates in the establishment lane no one has punctured that bubble and the other establishment candidates continue to fight among themselves rather than focusing on rubio. so he's rising. >> according to most republican -- let me ask you about that. trump still around 30 in most of these polls. rubio's moving up the other

establishment candidates, though, appear to be stuck in the mud, right? >> yeah, yeah. there's a little -- there's consensus. if you talk to republican candidates -- their campaigns, i should say, they agree on one thing, rubio is rising so rapid dry they think there's a chance that rubio could beat trump and end up in first place. that's the general view. the second thing is the other person who has the best chance of doing well today not tomorrow or the next day because as you said a week is a lifetime in politics is john kasich. bush and christie have nothing going on up here as you hear from candidates looking at internal numbers so that's sort of where it is. but that marco rubio, if he keeps rising is in a position to challenge trump and conceivably

come out on top in new hampshire. >> let's get go to manchester, new hampshire, and talk to the chairperson of the new hampshire republican state committee general horne is the first woman ever nominated by the republican party in new hampshire therefore like hillary clinton you can't question her on anything without it being suggested you were sexist. thank you for being with us chairperson horne, i, of course, joke. >> they're friends. >> so jennifer, new hampshire voters doing what new hampshire voters always do -- wait. one out of three republican voters haven't made up their mind. >> that's exactly right, good morning, it's great to be with you guys today. that's exactly right, joe. we've got this big debate coming up tomorrow night. i think you'll find's a mile marker for those undecided voters but new hampshire folks have spent this week really starting to narrow in on these candidates. all of our candidates are filling the room with engaged voters who are in the process

now of deciding who they're going to vote for on tuesday. >> steve kornacki. >> jennifer, i'm curious, looking at the state of new hampshire, it's an interesting state in terms of where the votes are on the republican side. you have bedroom communities in boston just over the border i guess are very anti-tax there. you have more of a libertarian sensibility in the north, john huntsman did well in the west. give us a tour of the state and where each candidate will be focusing for the next few days. >> well, you know what? i'll try hard not to play pundit on these candidates and their campaigns. each one of them has chosen their strategy a long time ago and they're spending this week all of them all over the state trying to close the deal but i tell you here in new hampshire just like the rest of the country this election is about the future. it's about economic and national security. and what our voters a r talking

about is the debate between hillary clinton and bernie sanders that appeared to be an argument about which one of them is the most progressive or the most socialist: i think that's what a lot of our republican voters are looking at and looking at our candidates saying we've got the better field. >> without playing pundit, what has been the appeal of donald trump there as you talk to people? he's had such big leads over the course of what poll. what is it about his message. >> there no question, not just donald trump, all of our candidates and on the democratic side especially with the bernie sanders campaign americans are justifiably angry. they are disappointed, they are frustrated. we have lived for over seven years now under in my opinion the most failed administration of my lifetime. they are being offered

candidates on the other side who are dishonest, who have failed at policy over and over again and they're justifiably angry with the system. and i think what you'll see in this election are folks are going to start to focus in on the candidates who cannot only unite their parties but unite our country. >> jennifer horn live from manchester, new hampshire, we are headed there. a big morning with presidential candidates jeb bush, governor john kasich and carly fiorina all going to join us this morning. we'll keep talking about these polls that show donald trump comfortably ahead for today. "morning joe" back in a minute. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪

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i would try to get him to new york city. >> that would be cool. it would be so worth it. still ahead, accusations have thrown over ted cruz in iowa but do new recordings shed new light on what his campaign did or did not do? we'll have that straight ahead.

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i mean,our new tour manager-with real,actual money. we run on quickbooks.that's how we own it. it's 43 past the hour. joining us by phone right now, republican presidential candidate carly fiorina. carly, good to have you on the show this morning. the debate. it seems there are some frustrations for you. tell us about them. >> well, good morning, mika. the people who should be frustrated, actually, more than frustrated, are the voters of iowa and the voters of new hampshire because you see the voters of iowa voted and in that vote i beat christie, i beat kasich, i tied bush for delegates yet i'm not on the stage and they are. so what does that say to the voters of iowa? and the voters of new hampshire ought to be kicked because apparently abc and the rnc are

saying "you can't make up your minds three days before the primary, we have to take somebody off the stage who's clearly a viable candidate." to so the voters of iowa and new hampshire are being kicked and i have been saying all along in this election the game is rigged and now you see it in plain day. >> there are a lot of people like mitt romney and other leaders in the republican party that are upset with the rnc and upset with these rules keeping you off the main stage. is h there any chance that you can get in the debate. >> i don't know. abc announced their criteria last night and you're right. a lot of people were june set with this. the original thinking, the original rationale is, oh, we have so many candidates and they can't all possibly fit on the same stage so we need to use polling data. guess what? we're down to eight. seven people have dropped

because they couldn't go the distance and so abc is using criteria polls from january 1? sorry, i thought votes 's inter the stage, ted cruz and ben carson said i ought to be on the stage. the rest are silent. maybe they're afraid to debate me, too. >> it's willie, do you have a sense this may change. there's still time. rand paul dropped out of the race, it seemed that should open up a spot for you. are you fighting to get on the stage or have you conceded that it's over? if so, how will you get your message out in new hampshire? >> i don't know what abc and the rnc are going to do. i know there were certain candidates lobbying hard at abc and rnc to keep me off the stage. i think they are afraid to debate, i don't know how they'll defeat hillary clinton if they

can't even debate me. so i have no idea. but here's what i'm going to keep saying to the people of this nation but in particular new hampshire. the game is rigged. power is being taken away from you day after day. it's why i'm running. we have to restore citizen government and what this debate debacle shows is that votes and delegates don't matter that much anymore. what matters are back room deals between rnc and abc about who will get on. this is george stephanopoulos' network after all. so maybe george doesn't want to see hillary clinton ever have to debate. but it's a rigged deal. it's a back room deal and meanwhile, i think, the voters of new hampshire believe that it's their job to pick presidents, vet candidates and win on the field so i'll keep talking for them. >> carly fiorina, thank you very much for being on with us this morning. good luck with that.

still ahead, after iowa there were plenty of people willing to write donald trump's 2016 obit but as people remind us, maybe not so fast. >> i would suggest however as a working hypothesis, ronald reagan for president is effectively dead. >> that was a shot of me, by the way, from college. >> wow. how there is a long tradition of candidates, including ronald reagan, bouncing back from disappointment. we'll be right back. almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. even a stag pool party. (party music) (splashing/destruction) (splashing/destruction) (burke) and we covered it, october twenty-seventh, 2014. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ your hair is still thinning.

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the iowa caucus is a tradition in american politics and so is the aftermath of it. if you look on the republican side, let's take a look back. >> briefly, here is what happened numerically in iowa last night. it's the starting gun of the presidential race. the question now is can ronald reagan survive this loss? >> but often mistaken for the finish line. >> ronald reagan for president is effectively dead. >> in 1976, ronald reagan nearly tied president ford in iowa, making him the formidable favorite going into 1980. but he barely campaigned in the state, and skipped the final debate, giving former cia director george bush the opening for a stunning upset. >> how big is the wound to governor reagan. >> perhaps ronald reagan is dead

politically. getting beat by george bush in iowa indicated an anti-reagan vote. >> the media literally riding ronald reagan's political obituary. he called it the lowest point of his 1980 campaign. >> there's a predictable explosion coming inside the reagan organization. >> but reagan's campaign didn't explode. it came alive in new hampshire where reagan reasserted control of his revolution. >> i am paying for this microphone. [ cheers and applause ] >> he and his aides were declared the loss in iowa to be one of the best things to happen to him. but reagan isn't the only one that popular opinion pronounced dead in an iowa corn field. >> it's the morning after the iowa caucus. it's george bush whose campaign is in serious jeopardy today. >> the vice president fighting for his political life. >> in 1988, iowa's third-place finisher was 1980s winner, then vice president george bush. >> unless bush wins new hampshire, this race may be all but over.

>> but that year it was bush that showed -- >> anything is possible in politics. >> i've just discovered i have one more thing in common with ronald reagan -- we both lost iowa. >> jon meacham, it's hard to find a republican other than go george w. bush that won iowa when it mattered the most. every four years people forget. >> absolutely. it was a wake-up call both for reagan in '80 and bush in '88. ronald reagan spent caucus night 1980 in los angeles. he was watching a screening of "kramer vs. kramer" while bush was going county to county. in new hampshire in 1980, george h.w. bush shook the hand of a department store mannequin he was working so hard. so -- and in 1988, you had a -- it was a critical moment for

george h.w. bush. lee atwater built the south carolina firewall we remember but he came in behind pat robertson and bob dole in iowa and we were talking a minute ago about how a week is a lifetime. iowa and new hampshire are very different and it's a frprequel d sequel and the results aren't always the same. >> 70% evangelicals and that's where rick santorum and mike huckabee win. >> it really -- and people are always shocked and they try to project what happened there beyond you just can't do it. real quick correction, by the way, that wasn't a store mannequin whose hand he was shake, it was al gore who stumbled into his path. >> terrible. >> so steve kornacki, as we look forward, i wonder if at some point if ted cruz does not win this year, i wonder if some point people are going to just start skipping iowa.

they always say they're going to and they never do it. >> the thing has been the iowa winner has always been best positioned to compete in south carolina, not so much new hampshire. the cruz strategy is to do credibility in new hampshire. probably second place, maybe to crack 20%. it's interesting, though, watching historical examples, i'm trying to figure out on the republican side where you have rubio inching up, trump protecting the big lead so in the 1908/1988 examples, but i also think of when walter mondale had a massive lead over gary hart, mondale won iowa but hart was the surprise second-place finisher and in eight days gary hart went from 30 points plus down in new hampshire to a 12-point win and then he was off and running, he almost caught mondale for the entire nomination. so i look at rubio right now, we see him down 13 points in the new poll today but he got a little bit of the momentum coming out of iowa. the big mo george bush, sr., used to call it. let's see if he can replicate

gary hart. >> steve kornacki, jon meacham, thank you very much. >> and in four minutes we're going to have the latest tracking poll so we can see the day by day by day tracking to see how quickly rubio is on the rise in yesterday and if trump is bleeding. still ahead on "morning joe," the presidential candidates taking a lot of ground in new hampshire. jeb bush and governor john kasich both join us. up next, republican strategist steve schmidt on the new polling out of new hampshire. and nbc news political director chuck todd who will take us inside the heated democratic debate that he co-moderated between hillary clinton and bernie sanders. >> so i think it's time to end the very artful smear that you and your campaign have been carrying out in recent weeks and let's talk about the issues. >> are they booing me? >> no, they're saying "boo-rns."

>> are you saying "boo" or "b "boo-rns?" [ boos ]

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see how working with pnc can help your company grow at pnc.com/ideas ♪ secretary clinton, you've made it clear when you look at senator sanders you do not see a president. >> i never said that! >> but do you see a sflpt. >> [ laughter ] >> would you unite the party by trying to pick senator sanders as your running mate? >> well, i'm certainly going to unite the party but i'm not getting ahead of myself. i think that would be presumptuous. if i'm so fortunate to be the nominee, the first personally call to talk to about where we

go and how we get it done will be senator sanders. >> i agree with what the secretary said. we shouldn't be getting ahead of ourselves and as i have said many times, sometimes in these campaigns things get out of hand. i happen to respect the secretary very much, i hope it's mutual and on our worst days i think it's fair to say we are 100 times better than any republican candidate. [ cheers and applause ] >> that was great. >> didn't they shake hands right after that? it was very nice. welcome back to "morning joe." >> it was just so different than the -- even the confrontations where it's such a higher level of humanity than when the characters on the other side go at each other. >> oh, my god. >> come on, joe. >> why don't you and your suit -- >> joe, come on, it's such a different -- there was no hate, there was no vitriol. >> do you watch these things with special glasses? >> yes, he does. >> listen, it's friday, february

5. >> one has a w, the other has an s. wall street. >> former mccain senior campaign strategist steve schmidt and in new hampshire, john heilemann. now let's see -- let's go to the tracking poll. >> we got it. what was it, 33-point margin for bernie sanders at the start of the week has now been cut in half. the 7 news boston and umass-lowell tracking poll shows bernie sanders now with a 15-point lead, 55% to 40% over hillary clinton. that was a 63-30 point race earlier this week. >> nobody is surprised by that, steve schmidt, nobody. we expected the race to tighten up. >> the race on the democratic side will tighten. it was never realistic he was going to win that by 30 something points. >> john heilemann, we expected this to tighten up and the campaigns even said so coming in, right? >> 100%. there's no one in bernie sanders's world who thought bernie sanders was going to win

the new hampshire primary by 30 or even 20 points the. question is whether he maintains a double digit lead or not as we get closer and closer to tuesday. >> the bigger question is that that is unanswered would marco rubio's momentum continue? he's jumped like six points post-iowa, let's see what happened yesterday. >> the republican numbers look steady. trump at 34% followed by marco rubio at 15%, ted cruz at 14%. also the nbc news/"wall street journal"/marist poll has donald trump -- >> i'm sorry. let's go back to that last one for one second. we need to finish that. guys, back to the last screen. bush at 8% unchanged, kasich showing growth at 8%, christie 5%, ben carson. before we go to the nbc news/"wall street journal" poll, let's talk about momentum here. big mo, rubio had it coming out,

you saw it in the early days of this tracking poll but it looks like iowa now is basically -- the iowa bump is over and now it could start again but according to this tracking poll, things have leveled out just a bit and now they fight for the last mad dash. >> very consequential debate ahead this weekend and that will provide these candidates with the last bit of momentum or it will slow that momentum down coming into tuesday. a lot of volatility in that new hampshire electorate coming into tuesday. there always is historically but when you look at marco rubio right now, what he has done is put himself atop the establishment bracket in the republican field. he needs to not win new hampshire but come in second place preferably ahead of ted cruz but ahead of all of his other establishment rivals. >> so a couple other polls, nbc news/"wall street journal"/marist poll has donald trump at 30% in new hampshire,

effectively flat. 13 points ahead of senator marco rubio who is up six points from the last -- before the iowa caucus. ted cruz has risen three points to 15%, john kasich at 10%, jeb at 9%, chris christie and ben carson in sixth at 4% each. >> you know what's remarkable about these polls? they're all within one or two points of each other. you're seeing the same movement, marco going up six point this is week which he did in the daily tracking poll has gone up which he's done in the cnn poll. you have trump holding steady at around 30% and all of these polls as well. >> and you have a cluster there, john heilemann, rubio, cruz, kasich, jeb bush, and puck you will christie up there, too, if you wanted to of people who could very easily come in second place. but if you are kasich, bush, or christie i would say you've got to be concerned about rubio gobbling up your airspace. >> yeah, 100%, willie. that's right.

and there is still a fair amount of establishment vote in that category of undecided. we talk about how much of it's left out there in new hampshire. there's always a lot. people decide late here about especially in that lane people are deciding late because there are a lot of good options, plausible options for competing in the mainstream lane. so i think if you took a poll, a very small poll, of republican operatives who are working on these represespective campaigns there's a sense that no one disputes rubio has momentum. a lot of folks think kasich among the others is the one who might be moving up and that christie and bush right now are the ones not showing as much movement in terms of the internal numbers of the campaigns. but again there's outstanding undecided vote and that debate as steve schmidt just said will matter a lot as well as the closing ads that go on the air over this weekend on the part of these campaigns. >> so steve schmidt, all things being equal, it looks like marco rubio has gotten a six to seven

point jump out of iowa and it look like a 12, 1313 point race. how responsibility that this weekend? >> huge. it will be huge in terms of how does jeb bush engage donald trump. this is one of jeb bush's last opportunities. jeb bush a little bit different than these other candidates because his strongest state is yet to come. >> this is donald trump -- so iowa was cruz's home field advantage new hampshire is tr p trumps they have to win those states. . the degree to which marco rubio and ted cruz get into an ideological fight where ted cruz has taked out to the ideological right of marco rubio with everybody else competing around it and, of course, in new

hampshire now for john kasich, for chris christie it's their last stand. they have to perform well on the stage. >> i wonder if cruz is hurt. anybody here think cruz was hurt by yesterday's stories? the momentum of all the things that happened? >> the phone calls is. >> i think he's mostly hurt by the history that he won iowa because he is an evangelical. it doesn't play any place else. >> being in an evangelical place all over america but playing specifically to only evangelicals. >> that's my point. >> it's very clear, it's mike huckabee, rick santorum, pat robertson. >> well, neither of those candidates came close to having -- >> it's also the way he won. it's like the kid who gets 1520

on his s.a.t.s and gets caught cheating on the test. >> it was an ugly, ugly -- >> it's not presidential in his disposition. it just reinforces a personal narrative about him shared by a lot of former colleagues. >> john heilemann? >> hey, i'll just say, there was a piece of -- it said 46% and 51% are the split between christians and non-christians in this state. that's an incredible number of basically unaffiliated or non-religious voters here compared to iowa. to donnie's point where in the republican primary some 65% of republicans identified as being evangelical, about half the voters in this state say they have no religion whatsoever as opposed to being -- identifying as even christian. so it's a very, very different electorate here in terms of the religious affiliation question. >> all right. we'll get back to the fireworks

from the debate because there are more to show you but let's get to other stories because there's politics going on everywhere. yesterday, former presidential candidate rick santorum came on "morning joe" to tell us why he's now supporting marco rubio for president. >> he's been in the senate for four years. can you name his top accomplishment in the senate? actually working in the senate doing something that tilted your decision to marco rubio? >> you know, here's what i would say about that. my feeling on marco is someone who has tremendous potential, tremendous gifts, if you look at being a minority in the united states senate in a year when nothing got -- four years where nothing got done it's hard to say there are accomplishments. >> the republicans have been in the majority for the past two years. can you name one thing that he's -- >> a vote? >> anything that he's passed in the last two years. >> joe, look, the republicans have been in the majority for one year and one month of which as you know he was running for president primarily.

>> it went on from there. there wasn't -- he couldn't think of one. and the interview puts marco rubio's campaign in damage control while his opponents pounced. >> rick has spent the better part of the last year and a half running for president on his campaign. he just endorsed us last night so i wouldn't expect him to be entirely familiar with my record and my time. bottom line is i'm proud of my service. we have real achievements not just in the u.s. senate but my time as speaker of the house and as a state legislator. but this campaign is about the future not the past. we're focusing on what we'll do moving forward. the most important job of a president is to be commander-in-chief. there's no one running for president that has shown better judgment or better understanding of our national security issues than i have. >> no one running for president has presidential experience. being president is nothing like being governor. it's nothing like being a senator. my second point i would say to you is barack obama is not a bad president because he lacks experience, he has seven years of presidential experience and he's worse today than in his

first year. >> i watched senator santorum on television, it was fascinating. they gave senator santorum three minutes -- which doesn't sound like a lot, but that's a lot of time on television -- three minutes to name one accomplishment of senator rubio. one. just one. it took him three minutes and he finally came up with that he fought some amendment on obamacare at one point. let me tell you, they're saving a place on mount rushmore after that one. [ laughter ] >> marco rubio has been a politician since he was 26 years old. he's not from the outside. he's been a career politician. his whole life has been around his own ambitions and he's gifted. he can turn a phrase really well. what has he done? what has he done? senator rubio suggested he led the charge to increase sanctions for hezbollah and it passed

without him even fwlg. >> what do you make of this? >> well, you know, first off it was a great question to ask. >> it was very simple. by the way, it's a simple question to ask. ask me what rick santorum did i can talk for 30 minutes in the senate. >> absolutely. >> ask me what ted cruz did, i can talk for to 30 minutes. i disagreed but he stuck his neck out. from day one he was a fighter who stuck his neck out for what he believed in. nobody can name a single thing marco rubio has done but run for president. >> the office of president of the united states used to be something that people who ran for it, george herbert walker bush, people of enormous accomplishment, ronald reagan two term former governor of california, had spent a lifetime traveling the country. you saw rick santorum in the answer define the obama era of the presidency. said his qualification was he had great potential. and that's now the standard with which a lot of voters are

looking at presidential candidates. not by their competence, not by their ability to command, not by their capacity to be the most powerful person in the world but whether they have great potential. >> and the problem it seems to me, john hielman, is the answer to that question is the gang of eight immigration bill. that's what he's done. he worked with chuck schumer and others and that's been hung around his neck for the entirety of this campaign. >> well, that's an accomplishment, right? >> it was at the time, but now he's paying for it. >> it's a very unpopular thing among a lot of republican voters in the nominating electorate and everybody points out that there's a similarity between rubio's dilemma on that and mitt romney and romney in 2012. there was discussion around our table here on this show about whether romney should have proudly owned that accomplishment or put himself in the awkward position of trying to run away from one of the major things he accomplished as governor of massachusetts. rubio -- it's a hard dilemma for

him. it's a position that puts him at odds with voters he's tried to court. >> they were in spin control yesterday. the reporter asked him what accomplishments. we didn't get an answer there. what accomplishment -- can you name zosh after the campaign had all day to figure out what his big accomplishment was, what was his big accomplishment? what did he come up with? >> i can't cite the list. it's already escaped my mind, that's how thin the gruel was on the list. i don't mean to be mean to marco rubio but they put out a list where you can look at it on google i think -- >> oh, my god. >> he cited about three things, none of which were things that rose to the level where anybody could -- things that were genuinely impressive and there were things you could point to and they point to this one amendment on -- that has to do with obamacare. it's not a very -- it's not a compelling list. the gang of eight is the biggest thing he did in his time in the

senate and for all the obvious reasons it's not something he wants to wear as a badge of honor. >> i think your coffee is here. >> you think back to the '52 election, dwight eisenhower, supreme commander of the allied expeditionary force. >> that's an accomplishment. >> the fact of the matter is, there are no accomplishments. he's been a professional politician since he was in his mid-20s. the his accomplishments were getting to the united states senate against an incumbent governor in the state of florida. he got to the senate, he's a very smooth politician. he began planning his run for the presidency right away. he's done very well on that and he's poised now to come in first, come in second potentially in the new hampshire primary. those are his accomplishments. >> sounds like jfk. >> he was a war hero. >> hold on a second. john kennedy was in the house of representatives for what? two terms? three terms? >> i think john kennedy got elected in 1948 to the house and

he was elected to the senate in '52. >> so he was in congress for 12 years. he was a war hero, he won the pulitzer prize. the list goes on and on and on. let's not have a dan quayle moment here. >> i think -- >> lloyd bentsen/dan quayle. >> i will repeat what i said yesterday. if you talk to rubio supporters, they don't mind the obama comparison. not on policy but the fact that he's young, hopeful, the future, changes the democratic game for republicans and he's exciting. >> great potential. so alex, for the record, let's put it now on the record. john can't remember and none of us can remember what he's done. do you have a list of what he's done? did you google it? >> this is what the rubio campaign sent us after our interview with santorum yesterday. >> here we go. >> legislation he's passed and signed into law, v.a. accountability reform, obamacare bailout, girls count act, venezuela sanctions, and hezbollah sanctions.

>> okay, well, the hezbollah sanctions, that's not exactly correct. and it's been reported widely he overstated his fighting in the obamacare amendment. but i guess -- >> republican voters will look at him in the context of a choice between hillary clinton or bernie sanders and they'll take his great potential for the future over their accomplishments everyday of the week. so the fact that he's articulate, he can deliver a conservative message, he is one of the candidates and i would argue -- >> oh, my god. did you just say -- >> you are saying the same thing everybody told us about barack obama except in 2007 and 2008. >> except they were being insulting. >> all right, well, yeah, i can name at least two people -- >> girls count. >> -- that would vote for him above hillary clinton or bernie sanders. still ahead on "morning joe" -- i think you would, i'm not sure. >> yeah. sure. >> to at least two of us.

chuck todd joins us after doing a terrific debate moderating last night's democratic showdown. we'll hear about the fireworks from last night. >> it was amazing. plus, which governors will meet expectations in new hampshire? john kasich and jeb bush join us live in just a bit. and for the former florida governor, campaigning is increasingly a family affair so we'll hear from his mom as well. and a reminder that we are headed to new hampshire. next week we'll be live from j.d.'s tavern in manchester beginning on monday. stop by to watch, have a cup of coffee or whatever they do at j.d.'s tavern, we'll be right back. accelerate, we've created a new company... one totally focused on what's next for your business. the true partnership where people,technology and ideas push everyone forward. accelerating innovation. accelerating transformation. accelerating next.

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our cam spain a campaign of the people, by the people, and for the people. so, yes, secretary clinton represents the establishment. i represent ordinary americans who are not all that nenamored with the accomplishment. >> i've got to just jump in here. honestly, senator sanders is the only person who i think would characterize me -- a woman running to be the first woman

president -- as exemplifying the accomplishmen accomplishment. i've got to tell you it's quite amusing to me. >> yes, yes, the queen elizabeth of american politics talking about how she's an outsider. joining us now in portsmouth, new hampshire, host of "meet the press" and "mtp daily" chuck todd. >> good morning. >> also with us, consultant and political writer juliana glover, she's served on the senior staffs of george w. bush, dick cheney, rudy giuliani and steve forbes and worked alongside steve schmidt on john mccain's presidential campaign. good to have you on board. let's talk about last night and chuck. >> chuck -- >> good god, chuck. >> this won't mean anything coming from me because i'm such a company man. i always toe the company line. >> you never know when he's telling the truth. >> i'm never critical of this

network publicly. >> not at all. >> actually i am. all the time to my detriment in the front office so i when i say you and rachel did an extraordinary job last night, hit it out of the park, you know i'm not being a company man. first of all, congratulations, ra remarkable job. >> thank you, i take your word on that. >> you can take me at my word because you've heard my other words before. >> you're not afraid. exactly. >> usually there's one or two moments from a debate. >> there are so many. >> you had so many moments because you guys dared to ask the follow-up questions that nobody else seems to ask in these debates. what were one or two of the defining moments for you? what were one or two moments that stood out? >> well, when she accused him of the smear, right? when she said that, that was -- it was one of those everybody stiffened up.

you felt the crowd in the background tense up. you heard audible gasps and boos. and the reason that stood out to me, especially in hindsight, yes, it felt like a big moment at the time but then also later sort of seeing it you realize she was -- this was not a -- that wasn't a planned attack. you know some debate moments are scripted out. it's something the advisors and the candidate go through. that wasn't. she is sort of he's gotten under her skin. that was i've had it moment and i'm going right back at you. i think this relationship isn't great. i know at the end they tried to talk about how much they get along. i don't know that that's so true and that's why that stuck out i was stunned how he said it. when bernie sanders said wall street is based on a fraud --

>> yes. >> that was incredible. >> that was a stark moment, too, where it was just certainly clarifying and something that while the two of them on some things were "me tooing" each other a lot if they wanted to not show any distance, certainly bernie sanders "me tooed" her a lot on foreign policy. less so, and she would do it on the wall street reform. she didn't "me too" him on that one. >> this is senator sanders and secretary clinton going back and forth on trade. the conversation got started after chuck asked hillary clinton why she supported tpp as secretary of state but now opposes it. >> i did hope that the tpp negotiated by this administration would put to rest can a lot of concerns that many people have expressed about trade agreements and i said that i was holding out that hope that it would be the kind of trade agreement that i was looking for. i waited until it had been

negotiated because i did want to give the benefit of the doubt to the administration. once i saw what the outcome was, i opposed it. >> chuck, i believe in trade. but i do not believe in unfettered free trade. i believe in free trade which works for the middle-class and working families of this country and not just large multinational corporations. i was not only in opposition to nafta, and this is an area where the secretary and i have disagreements. i was not only in opposition to nafta, i was on the picket line in opposition to nafta because i understood -- [ applause ] i don't think this is rocket science. so do i believe in trade? of course i believe in trade. but the current trade agreements over the last 30 years were written by corporate america for corporate america resulted in the loss of millions of decent-paying jobs. 60,000 factories in america lost since 2001, millions of decent

paying jobs and also a downward spiral, a race to the bottom. where employers say, hey, you don't want to take a cut in pay, we're going to china. workers today are working longer hours for low wages, trade is one of the reasons for that. >> chuck, that was one of the many exchanges that i think fit in the theme of the night which was bernie sanders walking that progressive line holding firm to his believes and hillary clinton sort of saying look, i'm pragmatic, practical, this is how business is done in washington, it's nice to have your wish list of progressive dreams but this is the way business gets done and i'm the best person to do it. >> well, it is. and look this is -- on the issue of trade, though, you look at it, rob portman yesterday, republican senator from ohio, former trade representative in the bush administration came out against tpp so that helps hillary clinton be able to have more credibility coming out against it since it's now -- you

see more bipartisan folks coming out against it. this has been one of these issues where we've seen both part i parties come out against trade agreements because of -- what bernie sanders said about the downward trajectory of wages, more and more americans believe and they believe it across party lines so i think you're right, he was trying to say, hey, i saw this from the beginning, secretary clinton is a johnny come lately on this, but, frankly, i'm watching a whole bunch of presidential candidates in both parties become johnny come latelies on free trade because all of a sudden this has become more mainstream, the idea these trade agreements aren't good for workers. >> chuck todd, fantastic, best debate this election cycle bar none. thank you very much. >> the candidates wanted to engage, that helps. >> they brought their a-game.

>> more importantly you and rachel forced them to engage. >> i stayed up all night. i was so excited. >> i swear i kept trying to like get my kids to sleep and mika kept calling "you have got to turn on the debate." and she was like "you're missing everything, you should see what chuck and rachel are doing." >> the conversation about wall street and big banks was the best conversation i was seen in the entire i have seen between any candidates anywhere it was incredible, really good. >> chuck, great job. >> and the democratic party thanks you for that great debate. >> i'm not sure they do. i don't think the dnc does. >> not the dnc. by the way, we haven't talked about iowa how the "des moines register" editorial page is talking what about a lot of journalists quietly told me as

we were leaving iowa. i heard from a lot of top journalists who whispered "you know bernie won." i heard that time and time again. "you know bernie won." then the democratic party comes rushing out, almost right after -- out of iowa. right after the last like ballot is counted "it's over, hillary won, nothing to see here." and the "des moines register," not a conservative paper, is calling bs on them, bs on the democratic party, saying something smells in des moines. it's pretty remarkable. i saw a tweet, alex burns with the "new york times" who said "iowa, you had one job." [ laughter ] and you look on the republican side -- it's exactly right. but the democratic party i heard steve schmidt even before this. i said why is the republican party so much more transparent and the democratic party is muddied? and a journalist who probably has voted democrat his entire life said well, it's intended to

be that way so if it's close they can control it more. and bernie sanders people saying they were asking to see the ballot ballots, see the paper list, the democratic party refusing to show that to them? where is this, bolivia in the 1930s? >> most americans don't understand the rules on the democratic side in iowa but it's shady as hell. and we ought to think about it as a country is that how we want to begin the process? one of the two -- >> it is shady as hell. >> one of the two great parties, is this how we want to begin the nominateing process to pick the most powerful person in the world? >> it's crazy. republicans were cheering last night. a great debate -- >> they fought each other to a draw. >> but we republicans are always the ones that are clawing saying "i'm more conservative than you, i'm more out of the mainstream than you.

"we're watching the democrats do this. this is the fight. who is the biggest liberal? >> it's remarkable. what struck me about last night, though, was the fact that they are going to be neck in neck for quite a period of time. hillary could easily be going into a general election incredibly weakened and now that republicans are on their way to dispensing what this big fight over conserve tichl versus trumpism, the potential con servetism would win, we're four days into what would be a normal presidential cycle. everybody is getting an opportunity to talk about these various candidates. this last segment you just had, that was the first time in a very long time i've watched a "morning joe" segment go through with almost no mention of trump. that is so extraordinary in its own right. >> that's because we know -- >> that's going to end right now: we know donald trump is going to win new hampshire along with jeb bush. i say that because jeb bush is right here. how did we not talk about donald trump? >> because we had this incredible debate last night where the candidates --

>> we have jeb bush, let's ask him. >> joining us now, former governor jeb bush of florida. last night he campaigned with his mother, the former first lady. take a look. >> it's wonderful to be here and to be with the world's nicest man. [ laughter and applause ] but jeb is the nicest, wisest, most caring, loyal, disciplined. [ laughter ] that's good. not by me. but he's not a bragger. we don't allow that. >> how many times people came up and said "your mother, i love your mother. i love your mother." [ laughter and applause ] just over and over again. she's not as great as everybody

thinks she is. i can tell you that one. [ boos ] [ laughter ] >> that is a sentiment shared by the boys who say that -- let's bring in jeb bush. jeb, i want to be personal for one second here then we'll talk about policy and everything else. but the thing that struck me being around your parents and i had the honor of actually going up and sending a little bit of time with them, it's -- when i talk to them, you know, we think of you guys as this political family and almost lnl like american royalty. she's a mom. your dad's a dad. you sit down and you're expecting these great stories about what happened in '76 or '80, they talk about their kids. and willie was just commenting, the most moving part of yesterday was your mom was taking pictures of you with her iphone like any proud mom would be and lest somebody would ever,

like, mock that, i would kill to have my mom and dad doing the very same thing. not kill, but you know. you have an incredible family because it is all about family. >> yeah, i'm blessed, first of all, that they're alive and i thank god everyday that that's the case. my mom came up here, she's 90 years old, she has a stroller, she makes her way around. today it's snowing, we're going to do one event before she takes off and i'm worried about whether she's going to be slip or not. i'll be right behind her making sure she doesn't. she is phenomenal. people love her and america loves her and i love her more than i could ever express to you all. >> so let's talk politics for just a bit. a former -- >> by the way, i may have to brag a little bit, so don't tell my mom. >> i certainly won't. marco rubio was in the news yesterday because we had rick

santorum on who couldn't list an accomplishment that he had. first of all, i want to ask you and i'll ask you two questions since we have a slight delay here. what do you think of marco rubio's list of accomplishments that his campaign got out after rick santorum couldn't name one and give us your list. >> well, his list of fighting for additional sanctions for hezbollah, which was done by unanimous consent unanimously, literally, where he didn't show up to vote, that was one of them. >> whoa. >> wow. >> i think he passed a bill jeanne shaheen that seemed pretty nice. that one bill became law. that's about it. oh, the risk corridor for obamacare that the actual sponsors of the amendment claim, correctly so, that they did it, and that was confirmed by the "new york times" after that misreported it. so his record of accomplishment is slim. he was speaker of the house and he did a fine job there. but every speaker before him and

after him but one that worked with both of us is supporting me and the three statewide elected officials are sporting me. it's not because they don't like marco, he's a likable person. but they saw me in action as a leader and leadership is not about passing amendments and calling it success. it's about making tough decisions. i was governor when there was eight hurricanes and four tropical storms during 16 months. no one complained about florida then. i cut taxes eight years in a row totaling $19 billion. we were one of two states to go to aaa bond rating. we fought public unions and eliminated career civil service protections and the state government work force declined by 11% but we led the nation in job growth seven out of eight years. the list is pretty long and that's not necessarily a precursor to what the future looks like. but i've laid out details on what the future could look like if you had a leader to fight to

change the culture of washington. >> joe has talked about you a lot and he would never ask you that question about your list of accomplishments because you would go on forever, in a good way. you have a lot. >> >> yeah, it's remarkable the long list of accomplishments. >> i'm curious because you debunk it had list the campaign put out, are you saying there's nothing he's done in his years as a senator? no tough decisions? no moments when he led on an issue that even the ones he put out are convoluted. did he accomplish nothing in the senate? >> nothing. i mean, the list they put out has been debunked not just by me, by other people. here's the deal, marco says well, barack obama's problem isn't his lack of leadership, he's a liberal. the problem is that barack obama made his case that there's only united states, not blue states and red states. he convinced people he had the leadership skills to forge

consensus to let us go forward and he didn't have them. and the net effect is that we're languishing as a nation. leadership matters. in this job particularly. you need a commander-in-chief that has a steady hand, that's had adversity in their life, that has setbacks, that understands how you make tough decisions. and in the world that is dangerous as it is today, i think that is important. and it's certainly important as it relates to forging consensus about fixing things for people. when i do my town hall meetings out here, people are struggling, they're hurting, they need someone to be on their side, not pursuing their own blind ambition. marco is a talented politician. he got elected when he was 26 years old. people love him and i do, too, he's a great guy, but he's not a leader. >> willie geist? >> governor bush, it's willie. i want to ask you about news we got yesterday that your president, governor george w. bush had cut an ad for right to rise, the super pac that supports you that will be airing in south carolina. that tells us first of all no matter how you do in new hampshire you will move on to

south carolina. the second question, though, is why did it take so long for you to bring your brother into the campaign, something people suggested you do earlier. >> well, the intention was always to do it nearing the end and i didn't know that the ad was going on because we can't coordinate. it's the weirdest thing in the world. i'm watching tv and i see this ad, i had no knowledge that it was going up. but he's going to campaign for me in south carolina, i'm excited about that. this is -- the strategy is to not abandon who i am because i'm proud to be a bush. it is who i am but also that i need to share my life experience, my leadership skills, my ideas to lift people out of poverty, my ideas to increase security for our country and to allow the middle-class to get a pay raise for the first time in a decade so i think it's the right balance. >> governor jeb bush, thank you very much for being on the show this morning good to have you. all right, that was

interesting. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." >> my dad was this perfect idyllic man who who to this day is the greatest man alive. [ applause ] . but she was the one that ought p taught us right and wrong, i can promise you that. oh remotes, you've had it tough.

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getting serious now? >> i do think the race is just getting serious. jeb did a remarkable job. i think over the last six to eight weeks we are seeing coming into his own. >> but he's at the bottom of the pack practically. >> i think with trump potentially being vanquished we are now -- >> aren't you vanquishing trump early here? >> not necessarily. i think the bubble's been popped? >> he's at 34% in the latest tracking poll. >> you don't have every serious republican running around acting like their hair is on fire because trump is going to be the nominee. prior to monday republicans everywhere were ready to pull the rip cord contemplating the idea of oh, my goodness, who f he is the nominee who do we go with? 40%, 50%, 60% of the republican party was not going to support trump. so now you have candidates getting oxygen, everybody but trump is getting oxygen. he's out there trying to be -- get as much attention as he can but you're getting these candidate, rubio, christie, cruz

now get to see who survives in the thinner air of higher polls. >> what does jeb have to do in new hampshire go strong into south carolina? >> i think he has to finish close to rubio or they have to finish in a clump. >> juleanna glover, thank you very much. coming up next, john kasich. you're watching "morning joe."

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political analyst jeff greenfield, also with us news and finance anchor at yahoo brianna gold riga. both parties have to decide just how angry are we. explain. >> right. >> exactly. >> that was good. >> no, i think it's true. where this anger goes is going to be very consequential, we are not the only country that's been through this and sometimes it can take ugly forms, sometimes it can translate into political reform as did in the new deal. it's not so much matter of tone. bernie sanders and to some extent hillary clinton says you're right to be angry at the

rigged economy. i think trump and cruz say you should be angry at cultural displacement, at the wave of immigrants, at culture -- that to me is a basic notion. the reason we don't know yet is nobody has really voted yet. >> well, talk about that. these early states you said before we came on have a long history of volatility. >> it's on us. >> talk about '84. >> well, it's on us what i mean. first, the press is like kids in the back of a car on the way to a family vacation and the car pulls out of the driveway, the kids start screaming are we there yet? we have one unrepresented state vote and we're drawing huge conclusions. we've seen -- i remember in '84 going to new hampshire to record the triumph of walter mondale who had the largest lead in primary history. >> right. >> and then we woke up a day or two later and the campaign had been transformed. and i just -- >> gary hart beat him. >> i just think it sounds so

pathetic and old school, could we just let a few more people vote. >> but we can talk about the debate. that was monumental event. did you watch? >> yes, of course. >> did you see it. >> i couldn't stop watching it. >> did anyone win the debate? what's your bottom line? >> i think if you break it into segments, into topics, i think you had stronger candidate versus the other when it came to foreign policy, for instance, i think that's when you saw a totally different relaxed side of hillary clinton and you saw a weaker side of bernie sanders, but i think when it came to wall street you saw hillary really on the defensive and bernie keeping the same momentum going on the themes that he has been running on. >> he was strong. they both were strong. it was amazing. >> the one question i wish secretary clinton had been asked, remember she said, well, i didn't know i was going to be running for president when they gave me all this money. >> yeah. >> seems to me the accurate thing to say is they gave you all that money because they thought they were listen to the next potential president of the stroets. >> stay with us. we're back in a moment. the future belongs to the fast.

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and we have a lot to talk about next hour, but we were just talking about a speech chain, an e-mail chain, that just kind of -- about the clintons. >> willie saw it in the "washington post." >> yeah, it was the university of missouri at kansas city a couple years ago. they had inquired about hillary clinton speaking there, they got her fee of $275,000 and the reply was in all caps yikes.

and then they got chelsea instead for $65,000. >> do you know what mayor daily -- the other mayor daily the one son got a contract to do something important for the city and questions were raised and daily said if a man can't help his son what's america all about? >> exactly. it's a family business. coming up next, we're going to play for you heated moments from last night's huge debate between hillary and bernie. there is a lot to choose from. plus we heard earlier from can carly fiorina and jeb bush, now it's john kasich's turn. we'll be right back. want to get their hands on. fiorina and jeb bush, now it's john kasich's turn. we'll be right back.

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establishment or almost the entire establishment behind her. that's a fact. >> a woman running to be the first woman president as empl fieg the establishment. it's really quite amusing to me. >> instead of arguing about definitions let's talk about -- >> you began it yesterday with your comments. >> one of the things we should do is not only talk the talk, but walk the walk. >> enough is enough. if you've got something to say, say it directly. >> when we both look at the same evidence about the wisdom of the war in iraq one of us voted the right way and one of us didn't. >> we did differ. a vote in 2002 is not a plan to defeat isis. we have to look at the threats that we face right now. well, good morning. it is friday, february 5th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set we have msnbc steve kornacki, donny deutsch is with us, what the hell are you wearing? and in new hampshire we have the managing editor of bloomberg

politics, john heilemann, in den vus jon meachum, along with willie, joe and me. what a sedate last night. >> great. >> i loved it. i'm sorry, rachel and chuck were awesome. i don't usually start with something like that, but that was the best debate i have ever seen this cycle. >> they let the players play. >> they asked questions, they went back, they asked follow up and then they let the candidates talk and the candidates, willie, both brought their a game. >> they really did. you know, the one-on-one format, which we haven't seen yet this this election cycle, you're reminded this is what a debate is supposed to look like, not ten people shouting at each other on stage. chuck and rachel, i say this as a complement, you forget they were there at some times because they let it be a debate. >> they were fantastic. you see in the other debates where the moderators become the story. not this time. this was about the candidates. hillary clinton and bernie sanders faced off in the candidates only debate in new

hampshire before votes are cast. in some of their most contentious exchanges of the campaign thus far. the two sparred over who best embodies progressive values, what it means to be a part of the establishment and the role of money in politics. >> what being part of the establishment is in the last quarter being a super pac that raised $15 million from wall street, that throughout one's life raised a whole lot of money from the drug companies and other special interests. >> it's fair to really ask what's behind that comment. you know, senator sanders has said he wants to run a positive campaign. i've tried to keep my disagreements over issues as it should be. but time and time again by innuendo, by insinuation there is this attack that he is

putting forth which really comes down to, you know, anybody who ever took donations or speaking fees from any interest group has to be bought and i just absolutely reject that, senator, and i really don't think these kinds of attacks by insinuation are worthy of you. and enough is enough. if you've got something to say, say it directly, but you will not find that i ever changed a view or a vote because of any donation that i ever received. and i have stood up and i have represented my constituents to the best of my ability and i'm very proud of that. >> you know -- >> so i think it's time to end the very artful smear that you and your campaign have been carrying out. >> oh, come on. >> in recent weeks. and let's talk bsh let's talk about the issues. >> let's talk about issues. all right. let's talk about why in the

1990s wall street got dee regulated. did it have anything to do with the fact that wall street provided -- spent billions of dollars on lobbying and campaign contributions? well, some people might think, yeah, that had some influence. let's ask why it is that we pay by far the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs and your medicine can be doubled tomorrow and there's nothing that the government can do to stop it. do you think it has anything to do with the huge amounts of campaign contributions and lobbying from the fossil fuel industry? let's talk about climate change. do you think there is a reason why not one republican has the guts to recognize that climate change is real and that we need to transform our energy system? do you think it has anything to do with the koch brothers and exxon mobil pouring huge amounts

of money into the political system? that is what goes on in america. [ cheers and applause ] >> you are the one who voted to dee regulate swaps and derivatives in 2000 which contributed to the over leveraging of lehman brothers which was one of the culprits that brought down the economy. so i don't know, i don't -- i'm not impugning your motive because you voted to dee regulate swaps and derivatives. people make mistakes and i'm certainly not saying you did it for any kind of financial advantage. >> i think as secretary clinton knows, there is nobody who fought harder -- i was on the house financial committee at that time. i heard the arguments coming from democrats and republicans, robert ruben, allen greenspan, about how great an idea it would be if we did away with glass-steagall and if we allowed investor banks and commercial banks and big insurance companies to merge. go to youtube today, look up greenspan sanders.

listen to what i told them then. i helped lead the effort against deregulation. unfortunately we lost that. the result is -- was the worst financial disaster since the great depression. >> all right. so much to go through here. first of all, i thought hillary clinton was amazing, she was unbelievably prepared and she was actually very artful in making an honest serious election question transforming it into an attack on her, which almost -- almost made -- until she actually called it an artful smear and then people didn't buy it. bernie never actually went in for the kill with her, he actually kept it big picture and i think ultimately the audience loved that. >> he wins that way. >> he wins that way. >> everybody knew there were so many times you were going is he not going to take that punch and he sat back and almost let the facts and her own words and you said she did great. >> i did. >> she did well in a lot of parts. >> it was a real debate.

>> but there was hypocrisy dripping from that answer. first of all, an artful smear. for bernie sanders simply saying about hillary clinton what hillary clinton said about herself in september, a few months ago, that she was a moderate. and being shocked and sunday and deeply saddened that bernie sanders is tell the truth as the "wall street journal" said today, wall street has had no better friend over the past decade as far as democrats go, steve coronary, than hillary clinton. no better friend than hillary clinton. for her to accuse bernie sanders of smearing her, and it goes to glass-steagall as well. hillary clinton is sitting there attacking bernie sanders for what bill clinton and hillary clinton were the champion of. no, she didn't vote for it. she and president clinton aggressively lobbied for it.

it was striking. >> maybe he missed opportunities or you're sitting there saying why isn't he going back at her at it, the one that jumped out at me, she said i can take all these contributions and take all these speaking fees but the suggestion that i ever changed my position or i would ever do something different because of it, she was indignant at that suggestion, but there is the story of the bankruptcy bill in hillary clinton in the late 1990s when she was first lady, elizabeth warn has told this story about how as first lady hillary clinton was on team elizabeth warn, runs for the senate, gobls up cash from wall street and goes to the senate and switches sides. is it literally because of the campaign contributions? who knows, but it's a suspicious turn around. >> and of course you have all the clinton foundation situations that we talked about six months ago where massive amounts of money were involved there, too. chuck todd, by the way, i totally agree with you and i treated it last night, i haven't able to tweet this about many

moderators this election cycle and chuck todd and rachel mad do you were amazing last night. >> i was up all night. i was electrified about the debate. i'm a nerd. >> best debate. >> ever. >> and usually politicians will say things on stage and you will be pulling your hair out going, why -- >> why aren't you asking. >> -- don't they do the follow up question? what were you guys watching before? hoosiers. >> and they were like boom. boom. >> they actually did the follow up questions every time. and here is chuck todd doing the same thing and pushing on an issue -- >> i was uncomfortable. >> chuck todd asked hillary clinton if she would release the transcripts of her paid speeches through the years. a simple question. watch. >> are you willing to release the transcripts of all your paid speeches? we do know through reporting that there were transcription services for all of those paid speeches. no full disclosure would you

release all of them? >> i will look into it. i don't know the status but i will certainly look into it, but i can only repeat what is the fact that i spoke to a lot of different groups with a lot of different constituents, a lot of different kinds of members about issues that had to do with world affairs, i probably described more times than i can remember how stressful it was advising the president about going after bin laden. so my view on this is look at my record. look at what i am proposing and we don't -- we have a vigorous agreement here, we both want to reign in the excesses of wall street. >> okay. again -- hold on a second. hillary clinton just said we both want to reign in the excesses of wall street. steve kornacki, again, i will ask you how does a person who has been wall street's biggest friend over the past decade say that? with a straight face?

>> and this has been her biggest vulnerability in this campaign and i think it's the biggest single reason bernie sanders has been able to get traction. it's that she's vulnerable on it and it's to the democratic base, the democratic base that is so angry at wall street, he comes off as so credible on this. the thing i'm struck at here is she was very strong in terms of her presentation, in terms of her style last night. >> preparation. >> that said think of every clip we've shown, what is the turf that is being fought over, it's wall street, it's the economy, it's being fought on bernie sanders' turf last night. >> it's being fought on democratic turf. >> you won't even go to me. i was watching a grown-up. >> wear pink. >> and an idea log. hillary is running for president and the president of this country actually is going to have a relationship with wall street. we are in a grown-up world here. okay? one guy's solution to foreign affairs -- >> donny, can you say we are in a grown-up world when you are wearing that suit?

>> i'm so confident in my opinions i can wear this suit. >> sometimes you can be too confident. go ahead. >> bernie sanders, break up the banks, break up wall street, i didn't vote for isis and everybody should go to college. on the other side i saw a grown-up, a potential commander in chief and guess what, maybe to the left wing of this party in a few primaries had won't work, but if you want to get elected president in this country and you want this country to work you need main street and you need wall street. this is the world we live in. can we grow up already. >> you're saying it's all okay. >> she gave speeches to goldman sachs, you are on the speakers circuit, come on, this is not what this country is all about. >> donny, let us see the speeches. would you release them? >> i have never given a speech in front of a kwan nis club or university or anywhere else where you couldn't release the transcripts and i can explain everything. the bigger problem, john heilemann, is she can't release the transcripts from goldman sachs because the executives of goldman sachs came out glowing

saying, finally, we have somebody who understands that we've been misunderstood through this entire banking kriels is and ez ra kline said the reason clinton doesn't have a good answer on her goldman sachs speaking fees is there isn't a good answer aside from i wanted money and not only in her pocket, john heilemann, but for the campaign as well. the clintons have used wall street as a cash register for 25 years now. >> right. and i think, you know, the problem for -- i mean, joe, what the clinton campaign and what secretary clinton want to say is, look, you can't point to bribes, you can't point to quid pro kwo quos, you can't point to significant policies where i caved on wall street. i'm in favor of dodd-frank, that reformed wall street and it's fair enough that she makes that point actually, i think. the problem for her is that if you ask the question why were you paid hundreds of thousands of dollars and why did you keep

doing these things in the context of knowing you were going to run for president and that it might create an appearance of impropriety we're sure at a minimum the only possible answer is because i wanted the money. and so it doesn't actually point to corruption, it just points to greed. and for a lot of -- and, again, there's nothing wrong with making money, but she made an awful lot of it and the fact is that the speeches that she gave, i don't know that there's anything incriminating in those transcripts, but it would become clear pretty quickly if you read them that the speeches she has given is probably not that much better than the speech a lot of people could have given to that same group. the question becomes what were they getting besides the speech? it begs more and more questions. that's why sanders on this issue has painted her so effectively into a corner. >> still ahead on "morning joe," presidential candidate john kasich wears his heart on his sleeve on the trail. >> there were a number of families that came with her -- some adult children with

disabilities and they were crying. somebody cares about my kid. we have to care about her kids, don't we? we have to care about her kids because they have a right to have a life just like we do. >> the governor of ohio joins us live, but first bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> mika, a messy morning and then we have to worry about the primary in new hampshire on tuesday, possibly a snow event then. snow you first what it looks like outside new york city, a lot of slushy roads outside of new york city, manhattan itself is okay, 2 to 3 inches has already fallen in new jersey and areas of connecticut, rhode island and massachusetts and that's going to continue. out on long island could get 6 to 10 inches of snow. additional snowfall from here. another 2 to 4 inches possible, boston, providence, new york city maybe an additional inch or two. should be ending by about 11:00.

the weekend, forecast, okay throughout much of the rest of the country, that storm exits the northeast, going to be a big storm off the east coast, may get you a little wet on sunday on the outer banks but that's it. temperatures pretty seasonal. super bowl sunday looks pretty good, much of the nation, san francisco is going to be gorgeous, we are going to see conditions ideal for a super bowl, morning will be a little cool, around 48 degrees, in the afternoon for kickoff 73 degrees, couldn't ask for a better forecast. now let's talk about that next storm that does come down. it dips down to minnesota, comes across wisconsin and then it's going to move to the east coast. by the time we get to monday night into tuesday and that's what we will be watching the best chance of the snow throughout the region. we will have to watch that in the days ahead. as of know looks like a moderate to die nor event, but again has some potential being a redeveloping ocean storm. we leave with the shot of new york city, snow should last another hour or two then we will keep our eyes on the next storm threat as we head through the beginning of next week. could be affecting the primary.

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welcome back to "morning joe." we're back with donny deutsch, you guys are already fighting about something. >> do you know what he has said to me he has never said on the air. >> what? >> i love hillary. >> i did? >> you did. >> did i? >> you said you love hillary. >> he does like her. >> what i said off the air not politically i would tell you last night was not one of her great nights. what i did say -- what i did ask donny off the air was, so tell me when are you doing the hillary fundraiser? i could see it coming. as professor pearson said in law school you should see this question coming at you like a freight train out of the mist. >> truth about fundraising i have not given her a dime.

people have invited me to a lot of stuff, but she got me back in the tent last night. she did. >> steve schmidt is with us as well. new quinnipiac university national poll showing the democratic race effectively tied. in a poll conducted from tuesday through last night hillary clinton is at 44%, senator bernie sanders at 42%. a 2 point difference inside the margin of error. >> so national polls, let us just say mean absolutely nothing. that said, jeff greenfield, it is kind of hard to ignore a 29-point swing. >> it is. the only thing that i would say, you know, back to my past is we have seen this before. massive shifts in polls because a candidate does well, because supporters have second thoughts. it doesn't tell you what's going to happen, it just tells you that there is -- and i think this is fair to say -- a low level feeling within a lot of

democrats that the coronation of secretary clinton may not be politically wise or may not be where they are standing. on that i think you're just speculating. >> exactly. we are in the fog of war. i hear people say so many things that are up in new hampshire, saying, oh, this is happening and that's happening and they are all whipped into this frenzy. i'm not seeing it in the numbers anywhere. you go on the republican side, for instance, where this is supposed to be the bitter end for donald trump. it's ironic much less has changed on the republican side. trump it in the 30s in new hampshire and in the q poll, well, donald trump still in first place. he is at 31 points, he is actually moved up three points since december. cruz down two points, and, yeah, marco is up 7 points. but again, i mean, how many times can somebody lose iowa, be declared politically dead and then the day after new hampshire everybody going we knew he was going to come back.

>> 1980 the phrase you lose, regan loses, tom pettit comes on the "today" show and this is the quote -- >> we ran it an hour ago. >> i would like to suggest that ronald reagan is politically dead. as my grandmother would have said not a great political analyst, have a piece of fruit, sit back, we'll talk later. calm down. >> the fruit is the key. >> it is. >> grandmothers are always right. >> not a piece of pie, a piece of fruit, she was ahead of her time. >> again, the same mistakes are made by the media time and time again. before iowa we all predict what's going to happen. after iowa we go, oh, look what happened in iowa. that's now the new reality and then new hampshire voters are obstinate and go, no, actually we don't give a damn what happened in iowa. >> and you see the campaigns playing catch up reacting the same way we in the media are. like we see in debates and town halls. >> the one thing we can say is

what we have seen. i think on the democratic side, you know, it would be so different if maybe biden was in the race or elizabeth warren was in the race. >> do you know who my secret candidate was for the democrats? senator brown. jerry brown from iowa. >> that didn't happen so you had bernie sanders and i think there was this massive discounting and then these massive crowds. >> what happens in south carolina, guys? >> we don't even know what's going to happen in new hampshire. >> once we get past these first two do you think bernie with his position is going to have a staying power? >> never say never. >> we don't know. let me tell you this, last night hillary clinton when asked about her e-mails once again pretended it was 1999 and it was a vast right wing conspiracy. she didn't realize that the federal bureau of investigation has an investigation going -- >> she also says she is 100%

certain there's no problem there. >> she had nothing to lose by saying that because if she is indicted she's out. why not come out and say i'm 100% certain. >> if they do to her like they did to petraeus she's out. >> jeff greenfield said we don't know. on the e-mails i started saying three or four months ago we're going to stop speculating because if the fbi doesn't indict, it doesn't matter. it's over. if the fbi inn diets, none of us can predict it matters because her campaign will be over. >> i'm laughing because i spent a lot of years at this and every four years a bring out particularly at a place like cnn or this network with the hyper interest in politics and the idea of saying, you know, i'd really like to wait and see what the voters have to say about this is, well, no, you can't do that. we have 24 hours to fill every day. but if you look at the history of primaries, polls are volatile, incredibly volatile, last minute shifts, newt gingrich in south carolina, four

years ago what happened to kerry and dean, eight years ago -- >> what about -- we can just stick with four years ago what happened with rick santorum four years ago. >> precisely. >> what happened in iowa, what happened in south carolina. >> how many republicans -- how many times has the winner of the iowa republican caucus won the new hampshire primary? >> zero into never. >> i can tell you this, donny, quickly, we don't know who is going to win. we do know this, though -- >> it might happen with bernie. >> iowa was -- yeah, bernie won iowa. >> it might happen. >> iowa was i will say it again ted cruz's home field advantage. >> of course. >> he had to win. okay. he did. new hampshire is trump's home field advantage, he has to win. >> yeah. >> south carolina is bush's home field advantage, maybe he doesn't have to win but he has to come in a strong second behind donald trump. >> yeah. >> if he comes in second behind marco rubio katie bar the door, it's marco rubio. >> still ahead we're awaiting governor john kasich, i believe

he's on kasich time i have just been told there is that thing that's called kasich time. also ahead the unemployment rate has held steady at 5% for three months straight, but will that be the story again this morning? the first jobs report of 2016 is just moments away. when you're told you have cancer

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breaking news, the first jobs report of 2016 came out moments ago. let's go to sara eisen at the

new york stock exchange. sara, what do you have? >> it looks like the pace of hiring in this country did slow down a bit at the beginning of 2016. only 150,000 jobs were added in the month of january, that was less than economists were looking for. they wanted to see a number more like 185. if you remember, toward the end of last year we were getting numbers way over 200,000 jobs being created every single month. now, there is a positive head line here and that is the u.s. unemployment rate has dropped below 5%. it is at 4.9%. that is the lowest rate since back in 2008 before the economy really fell deep into recession. how do we explain this? well, more people are looking for jobs and entering the labor force. the labor force participation rate ticked up a little bit to 62.7. there is another slice of good news that i want to bring you which i know filters into your conversation about politics and the campaign trail and that is we are seeing better wage growth, that missing link in this economic recovery. it looks like wages rose by 0.5%

in the month of january. it doesn't sound like a lot, but it's actually a lot better than what we have seen in previous months and that means wages are up about 2.5% from where we were at january last year. it's not enough, we need to see better wages, we need to see more hiring, but it is a little bit of sign of progress on the wage front. overall, though, it does look like january took a turn for the worse in terms of the momentum of hiring. you can blame the blizzard, you can blame a soft patch in the economy which we're going through which jives with the rest of the economic data. it looks like u.s. stock futures are getting hit a little hard on this miss in jobs. >> bianna, what's your take on the in ms? >> it was on the lower end of expectations but the number to look for is job growth, wages, and to see wage growth go up even slightly is significant. wes 2.6 million jobs added next year, staying nant wage growth. hopefully we will see an upward trend going forward.

>> joining us now from sea brooke, new hampshire, republican presidential candidate governor john kasich of ohio. good morning. great to have you on the show. >> governor, great to have you with us, we just did the jobs report, democrats can say, hey, unemployment below 5%, wages are going up, job participation rate is going up, why change course? what would you say to that? >> well, joe, you know, it's the weakest recover since world war ii. coming out of the recession. and, you know, i'd like to see that labor participation rate. i'm thrilled to see that anything is happening with wages because, you know, they've been stagnant for so long, but you can't have this kind of anemic growth and get to where we want to get to. the problem is everything is a cycle. we've got to lift the economy because at some point, you know, it starts to trend down again and i think the reason why we've seen some bad numbers in addition to what she said is worldwide we've seen -- we've

seen a suppression of activity and that's why it's even more important for the u.s. economy to grow stronger to help pull some of the rest of the world out of the ditch. so, you know, it's good that the wages are up, but frankly the recovery is too weak. it doesn't matter whether you are a republican or democrat, it's just too weak. >> governor, i want to get your reaction to what senator sanders said last night at the debate when he said overall the business of wall street is fraudulent, especially given your history with wall street at lehman brothers. >> well, look, you know, just so you know, mika, i ran a two-man office in columbus, ohio, and people accused me of running lehman brothers -- >> no one is saying you are on the board like donald trump. >> just for the record -- >> i will tell you what i think -- >> just for the record, john, just for the record mika wants you to know mika didn't ask that. >> it's the other eastern european at the table. >> it's bianna. >> i have to get it out there before she goes there. let me tell you i think there

are times -- mika. >> yes. >> i think there's too much greed at times on wall street. >> right. >> i saw it. and, you know, that's human averis which is not good, but secondly these big institutions need to reserve their own assets for the risks they take on, period, end of story. but everybody there isn't a crook and everybody there isn't doing horrible things. it's just that whenever value becomes less and greed becomes more we get out of balance. so i think there are things we can do. i will tell you another thing, we had all those regulators on wall street, they were -- they knew what was happening. they did nothing. if you're going to be a regularity you have to bark and then you have to bite and they didn't do it. and we can't have people encouraging people to buy homes that they can't afford and using the possible increase in home value as a bank. a lot of bad things, but i think it's possible to push these regulations that we need, we can't dee regulate all wall street, but here is the problem,

you regulate all the banks and you kill the little guy, you kill mom and pop in the community and we can't have that. those are the people that will take a risk, mika, giving even you a loan. >> thank you very much. >> good morning, governor. let's look ahead to the day after the inauguration, january 21st, 2017. >> yeah. >> what goes through your first day in the oval office? where do you start? >> well, look, i want to have a package that will go to the congress in the first 100 days and it would include regulatory reform, lower taxes for individuals for businesses and a fiscal path to a balanced budget over time. and we would have to do -- have to deal with the border, i want to get that done and i want to start the movement towards fixing social security. and then i'm going to have to call all the leaders around the world to let them know that america is back and then i have to call in the leadership of the house and the senate of both parties and then i have to put together the birthdays of the moms and dads of the people in

congress so i can call them and then they call their kids who are in congress and say, you know, help the president. so, i mean, it's going to be a lot of stuff you have to do. i told paul ryan when i saw him at the jack kempe summit in the first 100 days we are going to move like crazy. and there will be other things that will be put in there, including in the budget will be a movement of welfare and job training and education back to the states, but it's going to be very, very busy and i tell people at the town halls up here that, you know, buy a seat belt. buy a seat belt because there will be so much that will happen. as joe will tell you we move big and we move fast and that's what you have to do as the president and you've got to connect with the people so that the people will support you to push an agenda through that's going to result in job creation, economic growth. >> donny deutsch. >> governor, quick question back to wall street. hillary has been vil if i had because she's taking money from wall street and given speeches

to investment banks. is it fair to say you would not take donations because basically if you take donations that means you can't do your job or be unbiased. >> donny says that as an angry hillary clinton supporter. >> i can't take any donations because i'm the governor and secondly if i could take any donations i'd start with donny. i mean, the guy has got so much money, he does so many things, donny, i want money from you. hey, guys, i want to tell you something, it's been very interesting out here at our town halls. we are going to hit 100 today. mika, you are going to be interested in this. >> okay. >> i believe that for some reason we've created some sort of safe harbor here. i mean, people will come to our town halls and they will talk about some of the most excruciatingly difficult things they see in their lives, their kids who are addicted. i had a guy the other day come to see after a town hall, he had driven to new hampshire from new york and he hugged me and said, my son has got cancer and i

didn't warn him properly and what can i do and i've listened to what you say about believing in the power of the lord and what do we do? and he's hugging me. we see this -- there are -- i'm telling you that people are looking to go somewhere to share not only their successes but their pain with other people, which tells us somehow we've got to pull our neighborhoods, our communities and our families together again. it has been an astounding experience up here. that has affected me more than anything else i have seen since i've been in new hampshire. people need to be listened to, supported and hugged. i'm telling you, all across america. >> governor john kasich, we will see you there. thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> thank you so much, john. >> good luck. >> steve, we thank you as well. >> good to be here. >> steve, let me ask you when you go out shoveling snow. >> yes. >> do you wear a fleece and a silk tie? >> absolutely.

they go together. >> they do go together. >> peanut butter and gel gee. we're back in a moment with much more "morning joe." know your financial plan

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know you can get help staying on track for the future you've always wanted. stim ahead, senator bernie sanders gets the endorsement of former naacp chairman ben chill police, but will the backing of a prominent black leader help him challenge hillary clinton in south carolina and beyond. and this nice moment in richmond, virginia, yesterday. public buses marking the 103rd birthday of civil rights icon rosa parks by reserving a front seat for her on every single one of its buses. a tribute to an american hero. the future belongs to the fast. and to help you accelerate, we've created a new company... one totally focused on what's next for your business. the true partnership

where people,technology and ideas push everyone forward. accelerating innovation. accelerating transformation. accelerating next. hewlett packard enterprise.

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welcome back. as we mark black history month race relations are taking an increasingly central role in the presidential campaign. joining us now professor of sociology at georgetown university and contributing editor to the new republic michael eric dyson. he is out this week with his new book "the black presidency: barack obama and the politics of race in america." also back with us the chair of the department of african-american studies at princeton university eddie gloud urin jr. we have so many different ways that race is per vagd this election cycle, the conversation

about flint, michigan last night, policing to all the different -- you were talking about black unemployment. >> so let's start with you, mike. great to have you back. always great to have you here. >> thank you. >> you made a lot of friends in the white house when you said hillary clinton would do more for black americans than barack obama. >> yes. >> but you actually had the president talking to you in an interview in this book. what have we learned about race during barack obama's presidency over the past eight years? >> well, i mean, obviously he has evolved in his own thinking about race, at least publicly and what he has been able to say -- forced to say, convinced to say from the bully pulpit. at the beginning he was practicing racial procrastination, a bit hesitant about weighing in. he learned a lesson after speaking about processor gate' situation. >> it's almost like americans say, it's all right, you being black just don't talk about it. he talked about it his poll numbers went down. >> he learned that lesson i

think unfortunately. whatever he speaks about he is going to get push back, isis, the economy, job numbers, whatever it is. the reality is you have to begin to teach. i think he was convinced, forced to -- in the situation where he had to speak about it and then what happened when black people became urban proxies for obama in terms of the rise of racial violence he became a symbol of black program according to dylann roof to killed those nine people in charleston, south carolina. so there was a social cannen in a black movement, the black lives matter movement along with principle critique that forced obama into -- >> and the president obviously, eddie, had an attorney general who was very aggressive on the issue who he appointed. >> no doubt. no doubt. but i wanted to insist that president obama has been pushed, forced. i think mike uses the phrase racial receipt a sense, he has been forced to address the issues more directly. you know, we are at that stage where no matter what we say there is going to be an assessment of his presidency. we can disagree about what he

could and what he should have done, but what we do know is that black america is suffering. what we do know -- >> is it better off or worse off? is black america better off or worse off than when obama became president. >> i don't know by any statistical measure we can say we're better off. >> i address that in the book and the statistics suggest that black people are not doing as well as they were when he came in. >> why is that? >> well, part of it is you had an incredible blee deep recession, black unemployment has always been twice that of white unemployment as we see even with the job numbers, 4.9% for america, double that for black americans, but i think part of his strategic inadvertence when it comes to race, i'm not going to speak specifically about it, i think the president believed if i hope the broader american society black people were helped. i think it's the opposite. if you help black people like during the civil rights movement what did the resistors say, let's throw in women, let's throw in poor people. as a result of that when the bill passed all those people got

helped. when you help black america the rest of america comes along for the ride. >> let me take a different turn on your concept that hillary clinton might be better for black america than barack obama. i will ask both of you in terms of economic inequality, black unemployment, fairness in policing, criminal justice reform. if one of the two democratic candidates could have their way in washington who actually would be better for black america? >> what i'm saying is that she had white privilege working on her behalf. that nobody is going to step up to her -- >> but who cares about the issues that impact african-americans more? >> she's able to speak from a bully pulpit in a way that explicitly addresses the issue of race if she's forced to do so in a way that obama would be you're trying to help your own people. >> who is already there on some of the key issues? >> i'm trying to get an answer that's honest. >> we don't know the answer yet mika. >> i mentioned economic inequality, fairness in policing and criminal justice reform.

the two candidates running for president who is already there on those issues? >> bernie sanders has been much more explicit in this regard. in democracy in black i have been very critical of the democratic party. i'm very critical of the two party system when it comes to you will of a those issues and the black community. what we need to do in this election season is to put these issues up front and to get more than rhetoric, actual policy positions how will you address the specific circumstances of black folk? so this is something that goes beyond just simply am i with clinton or am i with sanders. >> i'm just curious. in terms of what they're talking about. >> he answered. michael, let me ask you -- he said bernie. he gave you the answer you wanted. >> it was hard. >> you got bermy. no, it wasn't that hard. >> i'm not -- >> by the way, if you had said elizabeth warren she would have kept you here for another hour. >> i think hillary gave one of the most powerful speeches in regard to criminal justice and

the existential plight of black people in the aftermath of the murder of those nine people at the same place where president obama spoke to the san francisco collection of mayors there. so it was -- >> but a speech is easier to give than actually policy. >> i agree with all of that and professor glaud has been critical of the people who gave in and gave speeches i've been critical as well. if you're asking the question about what the potential arena looks like for hillary clinton she at least has some possibilities. >> michael let me say knicks words i don't usually say on this show. >> all right. >> let's be fair to president obama. >> absolutely. >> and i remember -- >> i'm trying to do that in my book. >> i remember travis smile yie sitting in that sid and tavis and i were talking about how it would be harder for a black president to be aggressive on blackish use than a white president not so much because of the white privilege that you speak of, but because people would be suspicious going, is he a black president or is he a

president who appears to be plaque? >> i'm literally saying the same thing. when i say white privilege i'm saying bill clinton has more permission to be black in public, playing the saxophone than president obama because if president obama does it it's stereotypical, what are you doing. block has latitude. barack obama had an incredibly difficult job to face. >> terribly difficult. >> at the same time the reason he is in that office is because he knows it's a difficult job and he has to speak saliently and insight flee. >> you're saying he is doing a better job now. >> but he is going forced to do so. >> he's being pushed to do a better job. >> i want to say this, though, what does it say about who we are as a nation when barack obama can't be a black president? what does it say about who we are as americans when we have to leave the specificity, the particular later, use these academic words of black conditions at the doorstep? it says we have a long way to

go. >> i understand that. i can also say, though, isn't it incredible that eight years later we can make that complaint about a black president? >> well, the book tries -- >> come on. i got you there. >> thank you. the book is "the black presidency, barack obama and the politics of race in america." eddie gloub thank you as well. >> alex is yelling at us so loud. >> we're going to see everyone in manchester. >> the black presidency. buy it. we will see you next week. >> msnbc picks up the coverage after a quick break. ere. oh no, i'll take you up to the front of the school. that's where your friends are. seriously, it's, it's really fine. you don't want to be seen with your dad? no, it's..no.. this about a boy? dad! stop, please. oh, there's tracy. what! [ horn honking ] [ tires screech ] bye dad! it brakes when you don't. forward collision warning and autonomous emergency braking. available on the newly redesigned passat.

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