good afternoon, everyone. i'm steve kornacki. we are live in manchester, new hampshire. across the state today, the mad dash is on for last-minute support. all of the 2016 candidates out there scrambling around with a primary here just three days away now. for republicans the clock is ticking ahead of tonight's final debate. that will be the last chance for them to go head-to-head before the polls open on tuesday. several of the candidates also making their appeals in person at town halls and rallies, including dr. ben carson, who was here on set just in the last hour making his case. >> why should new hampshire voters go towards you for president right now? >> well, there are a number of reasons. first of all, i've had a lot of life experiences. not as a career politician, but as somebody who's experienced

life from the bottom 1% to the top 1%, who's had 11 different jobs and lots of different sectors, who has come up with solutions for very complex problems that have never been solved before. >> we'll have more of that interview later on, but first let's check in with the campaigns for the candidates choosing the prep for tonight's debate instead of out on the ground. our teams are standing by including all of it, include hallie jackson, katy tur, gabe gutierrez. hallie, big night for ted cruz, the expectations a little different for him in new hampshire. what are they expecting tonight? >> the expectations really are different, steve, and i think that is one of the keys for ted cruz here. this is not a state where he necessarily has to perform in the same way that we saw back in iowa. remember, at that des moines debate he was really in the

crosshairs there, he was the center of the stage, the center of the bull's-eye. tonight that rule gets to be played by marco rubio. he is somebody who has risen in the polls over the last four to five days coming off that strong third place finish in iowa, meaning that for the rest of the establishment field, they know they have got to do something to try to slow his momentum ahead of tuesday's primary. that's why marco rubio's team is ready for him to play defense. i'm told that he won't necessarily go on against but if he's attacked, he will be prepared to fight back and to defend himself essentially. each of these establishment candidates, rubio, chris christie, jeb bush, john kasich, each know they have to try to finish ahead of the other on tuesday in order to have a shot to carry some momentum into south carolina and beyond, if they'd like to be players in this race. there may be four tickets out of new hampshire. so you're looking to see who's going to punch them. >> and hallie, this issue that's come up since iowa about the way ted cruz won iowa with his campaign putting out the word to some people that maybe ben

carson is getting out of the race, what's the read from the campaign on this on how it is affecting them? do you think this has stalled them? are they worried about this or are they just brushing it off? >> i think they're pretty unconcerned and you see that even in senator cruz's demeanor when he's talking about this, point out that all his campaign staffers did was pass along a story that ben carson was headed home to florida instead of on the campaign trail immediately after iowa. we should note, steve, of course, cruz did apologize to ben carson for not following up and clarifying once it became enclosure that carson was not suspending his campaign. but for them i think they're looking past this, looking ahead to not just new hampshire but really south carolina, which is a state where they are looking to make a play and then to those s.e.c. primary states as well. there's some question marks when you talk to republican who say say what's ted cruz doing in new hampshire, this is not a natural fit for him, not a natural fit state. maybe he should be in south carolina instead. but the campaign's reaction is that, hey, new hampshire is the

next nominating contest. they'll have time to play in south carolina. they're not abandoning south carolina and they have spent a lot of time there and put resources in prior to this. >> all right, hallie jackson, thank you for that. the front-runner in new hampshire, donald trump, was in south carolina last night and took on the cruz iowa controversy. >> so the person that came in third, they said unbelievable result, unbelievable! this is a huge victory! but i came in second and they said trump didn't do so well. i said what? but you see, i don't think i did come in second. i think i came in first, okay? >> and joining us now is nbc's katy tur in new hampshire. katy has been following the trump campaign. katy, it's an unusual decision. i know they're talking up this idea, the trump campaign is, that it's a 50-state strategy, new hampshire matters, but so does what comes next. when you talk to the trump

campaign, do they feel they have to win here? whatever the margin is, they have to get a win on the board in new hampshire? >> on the record, none of them will say they have to get a win here but i think it's very apparent to them that they need this state. corey lewandowski is donald trump's campaign manager, he is from here. he's expected to know new hampshire. if they were not able to come away with a win here, especially after he's been leading with all the polls and with the crowds he's drawing, i would say it would certainly be a big disappointment. hold on, can we talk about that sound bite donald trump just made. he does have a point when it comes to the third place winner came in first and the first place winner -- or the second place winner is a loser. there was a great "daily show" clip talking about the expectation game and how it just twists everything around and makes the third place winner, marco rubio, the first place winner. he's got a point. got the most votes in iowa caucus gop history, more than santorum, more than mike huckabee, except for ted cruz

during that contest. so donald trump did have a really great showing, considering that he's a first-time politician. he has seven delegates, cruz has eight dealts, marco rubio also has seven delegates. so the idea that they have no momentum coming out of iowa i think is misplaced. when you speak to voters on the ground here, they do still think that he has a message that resonates. the one thing i would watch out for, though, is polling. the polling in iowa was a little bit off. the polling in new hampshire shows him very much in the lead but that's not counting all those people who are undeclared at the moment or all those people who might be swayed in the last few days and end up voting for somebody else when they walk into that voting booth on tuesday. as you talk about all the time, steve, these polls are just a snapshot of a moment in time. things could change, even up until the last minute. >> that's funny you talk about rubio being declared at least the moral victor in iowa with third place. listen, that's nothing on 1984, gary hart lost iowa by 33 points to walter mondale and they said

gary hart had basically won iowa and he rolled into new hampshire and pulled off one of the great upsets in new hampshire primary history. i guess rubio is hoping that history can repeat itself. katy tur, thank you for that. the republican with all the momentum is marco rubio. he surged to second place in the latest nbc news new hampshire poll. as tonight's debate nears, voters will see if rubio can handle his first night in the hot seat. gabe gutierrez is in manchester outside the debate hall. we've been seeing him for this flashout but here he is again. gabe, from the rubio standpoint, this is a new place that he's in, a new position that he's in. he's going to get a lot more scrutiny than i think he's used to in these debates. >> yeah, that's right, steve. the rubio campaign keeps using the phrase marcomentum over and over and over again. yes, i've been standing here the last few minutes listening to

katy tur talk about the expectations game. >> i didn't realize you were there. >> the expectations game that the rubio campaign has been playing. over the past several weeks we've talked about this 3, 2, 1 strategy not put forth by the campaign but by a lot of analystianalys analysts thinking if we can get third in iowa, second in new hampshire and first in south carolina, that would be the way to his nomination. but the rubio campaign is saying, look, we want to finish in the top tier and finish with donald trump and ted cruz because then they think that they can make the argument that rubio is the anti-trump, the anti-cruz and as long as he gets the governors out of that race, the john kasich and chris christie and jeb bush, the establishment candidates, if the rubio can knock them off here in new hampshire and move forward to south carolina with that head of steam, finishing as number two or three here in new hampshire, they feel that they can be in a fantastic position. as you mentioned, steve, all eyes will be on rubio tonight because he is going to be the target of all these attacks.

he has been for the past several days. the key will be tonight how he will respond to that, whether they'll be able to knock him off script and that has been the big knock on rubio and that he is too scripted. so we'll have to see if any of these candidates will be able to make a denting. >> gabe gutierrez, thank you for that. here with me now -- >> there's hallie jackson. >> i'm jealous. i wish -- well, i'm a little jealous. i like being in a bar too but it would be fun to be at the debate. >> we're just hanging out. >> here with me now in the bar is the editorial page editor of the new hampshire union leader. grant, thanks for taking a few minutes. you went with chris christie in this thing. >> we did. we think executive experience matters and we think of the three solid conservative governors in the field, chris christie set himself apart, especially with his time as a u.s. attorney in new jersey, prosecuting terrorism cases, prosecuting political corruption, and we think

experience matters if you want to predict how the next president is going to act. >> what do you make of this? we've seen a bunch of polls, if you look at the trajectory, christie has been falling off. he's down to 4% in the latest nbc poll. it looks like he doesn't have much traction right now. >> tonight is going to matter a lot. new hampshire voters are notorious tire kickers. they make up their mind late. undecided voters move late and move fast. when the debate comes tonight, we'll be two and a half days from polls opening across new hampshire and voters will go into that debate this time looking to make up their mind, not just looking to start ranking the candidates in their top three. they're going to pick their top one. and one answer in tonight's debate could make the difference for voters. so it's that final push. and i think for chris christie, the important thing isn't just to take shots at marco rubio, peel support off donald trump, it's getting some distance from the other two governors. there's a lot of people for whom executive experience matters.

they want a governor who's run something bigger than a speed boat and has had some experience in government. and for them, governor chris christie has to differentiate himself from governor bush and governor kasich. >> the thing we've always said the road to the white house runs through the statehouses. governors historically have a better track record but it seems like that's blowing up in front of our faces this year. the governors have been relegated to the back of the polls this year. ted cruz has been up there, donald trump, ben carson for a while. do people really want executive gubernatorial experience? >> there were seven governors fighting for that vote. we're down to three. i think after new hampshire there's going to be one governor left standing that's going to try to make the case this is a four-person race and if executive experience matters to you, i'm your candidate. so governor christie will try to make that case, governor bush will try to make that case, governor kasich will try to make that case and they have a couple of hours tonight in man chesser to do it. >> talking about chris christie here, rachel maddow went out on

the campaign trail. he's been trying to get chris christie on her field. she met him in the field. let's play a little of the exchange that they had. >> there's some question that maybe your style is a very new jersey style and that combativeness while entertaining on the east coast might not play everywhere. >> then how do you explain trump? you know, whatever you want to say and have said about me over the years in terms of things that have come out of my mouth, they're a fraction. i never said that i could shoot somebody in the middle of fifth avenue and i wouldn't loz a voter. i never called mexicans rapists and murderers. i never said ban all muslims from the united states. i mean, you know, and this is a guy who if you believe the polls is ahead in the polls not only in new hampshire but he's ahead in much more nationally. >> so, grant, here's what i'm wondering about chris christie. did donald trump sort of come out of nowhere and steal his thunder? the role chris christie wanted to play was this was the guy

with all the youtube moments, you never know when he'll get upset and go off on somebody. did trump come in and play that role and steal it from him? >> i think he grabbed a little of the oxygen of people sick of being politically correct. donald trump just says whatever is on top of his mind and that was part of chris christie's appeal. he would tell somebody to sit down and shut up. i thought rachel did a great job on the debate and i thought that was a great little interview with the governor. thank goodness they didn't hug because that would have burned the internet down. >> let me ask you this, though. looking at the polls up here in new hampshire, we've had rubio target to move up a little bit. there's a tracking poll out today that maybe that is stalling out, we're not sure. what's your read on rubio, how much momentum does he have right now? >> he kind of won the week and now we're in the weekend. so winning the debate tonight, setting themselves apart, you've got another narrative developing the next three days. politics moves faster than ever before and, you know, ted cruz

was the big winner on tuesday night. by wednesday afternoon, all everybody was talking about was dirty tricks and ben carson. it moves quickly. so marco rubio had a great thursday and a friday. we'll see who has a great saturday night and sunday. >> and what about trump. look, he's broken all the rules so far that we thought existed for campaigns and here he is ahead in new hampshire a few days tout. a second place finish in iowa. he's in south carolina yesterday and hasn't campaigned up here like everybody else. what does it say about the new hampshire primary itself if donald trump can win it? >> i think it says more if donald trump can't win it. anything other than a win from donald trump would be an epic collapse. he's up double digits going into the final weekend. some polls have him up 20. we don't care much about polls but if he doesn't win and his only argument for being president is that he's a winner despite all the bankruptcies and failed businesses, his only argument is that he's a winner, if he doesn't win, well, then there's no reason to vote for him. >> but if he wins, what happens? >> he moves on, he's got a lot

of momentum and the republican wing of the republican party has to coalesce around one candidate. if donald trump wins, i think ted cruz, marco rubio, whichever governor places best. they have to make the case that i'm the guy that can take down trump and knock these other guys out of here. >> grant, thanks for that. appreciate it. and we are going to fit in a quick break. when we come back, we'll check in with the democrats. hillary clinton holding a town hall event with students right now in henicker, new hampshire. new polling showing her catching up to bernie sanders. you are watching msnbc, the place for politics. i have asthma... ...one of many pieces in my life. so when my asthma symptoms kept coming back on my long-term control medicine, i talked to my doctor and found a missing piece in my asthma treatment. once-daily breo prevents asthma symptoms. breo is for adults with asthma not well controlled on a long-term asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid. breo won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. breo opens up airways to help improve breathing for a full 24 hours.

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hillary clinton is holding a town hall event right now in henicker, new hampshire. it is pot of what's been a busy day for the former secretary of state. earlier this afternoon she held a massive rally and got a major boost on the trail from cory

booker as well as former secretary of state madeline albright. albright drawing huge applause with a message directed squarely at female voters. >> there's never been anybody that is better at understanding things and ready to go than hillary. and just remember shall there's a special place in hell for women who don't help each other. >> and joining me is john podesta. >> good to see you, steve. >> i saw your campaign put out an advisory for tuesday night, the night of the new hampshire primary. you didn't call it a victory party. >> well, we're fighting for every vote here, steve. we know we're behind. senator sanders is very well known here. he started off very popular. >> wait, wait. did he really? i keep hearing this. his vermont advantage. i'm not so sure about that.

>> he's the whole part of the state is in his media market. he's very well known, started off with high approval ratings. >> but most of the state is the boston media market. >> and the burlington media market. >> but he's been popular. we know. we came here behind. we're fighting for every vote. that's what she's doing. she's at new england college talking to young people, trying to tell them why she thinks she'd bow a better president. that's what she did last night, talking directly to his voters. we've got 10,000 volunteers out over the weekend trying to convince people that she's the person that can get the job done, build a better future, reduce the giant debt load that people have coming out of college, get wages growing. so we're going to fight for every vote and hope to do well here. >> what would be a success? what would allow you to stand up here on tuesday night and say, okay, we fell short. >> well, i'm not going to put a

number on it. >> single digits? does it have to be single digits? >> i'm not going to put a number on it, but i think new hampshire has been good to hillary. she loves this state, she loves campaigning here, so we're going to just do everything we can to get as close as we can and hopefully get right up to the edge of this. but we know we start -- we came here from iowa after we won iowa. we knew we were behind and we know we need to catch up and that's what we're trying to do this weekend. >> let me ask you, one of the issues that came up, there was a lot of talk in that debate, wall street came up. this also came up in the forum cnn held but these speeches, big paid speeches, $675,000 for one of them, would she release the transcripts of those speeches. is that something that you guys have talked about? >> she said she'd look at it. she also said that once new hampshire is done, she'll take a look at that. but i think two things. one is that this charge is being really leveled. it's another one of these cases

of innuendo, trying to suggest that her position can be influenced by campaign contributions or speeches, and that's -- nothing could be further from the truth. she stood up to wall street when she was a senator, she's got the most comprehensive plan as a candidate and i think when you strip away the innuendo, that's what this is all b i would say there's also a double standard going on. there are a lot of candidates running around the state of new hampshire that have given speeches and i haven't heard anybody ask for their transcripts. >> i think one of the concerns when you say was there any influence exerted here, one of things that was brought up is elizabeth warren said publicly when hillary clinton was first lady, elizabeth warren went and talked to her about the bankruptcy bill and elizabeth warren said hillary clinton was on our side. she was against that. then hillary clinton went and ran for the senate in new york. she took money from wall street. wall street was a constituent of

hers and then when it came up in the united states senate, she switched sides. >> i see what she said but it's important to note that when the bill came up that was enacted into law, hillary clinton said she was against it. she would have voted against it. she said it was flawed, it was bad for the country, she was in the hospital with president clinton because he had his heart incident then, so she couldn't be on the floor to vote against it but she firmly stated her position against it. so, you know, i know i've seen what senator warren has said, but i think what she and senator warren talked about when she was first lady was the need to make sure that women and children were protected, that their alimony payments would be protected and she's fought hard to make sure that that was the case. but when that bill that came law came up, she was firmly opposed to it. >> let me ask you about some of the bigger picture things.

you guys won iowa, i think you're still well positioned after new hampshire. we all know about the south carolina numbers and everything. that said, a year ago when people were looking at this race between hillary clinton and bernie sanders, nobody would have expected or believed that it would be as close as it was in iowa and that he'd be ahead in new hampshire. what does it say to you that this case has gotten as close as it is. >> we expected a challenge. no one believed us when we had that in the spring and during the summer. we expected a serious challenge and we always took senator sanders seriously. he's, you know, he's fired up a certain portion of the democratic base. >> you didn't think you'd be down in new hampshire. >> well, you know, we always knew that senator sanders would run very strong here. he was ahead all through the fall with a brief period of time right after the benghazi hearings and the first debate where we pulled a little bit ahead of him up here. >> but when he started -- i went

and looked. when he said, you know, i think i'm going to run for president next year, he was at 6% here. so that's where he started out. >> we think he's run a good race but we think we've run a good race. hillary is out there talking about what she will do and i think most importantly that she's got a track record for her whole life making change happen, getting the job done. that's what she's promising, that she's someone who can get results and whether that's raising wages, getting equal pay for women, getting child care in this country, making sure the affordable care act works for everybody, controlling the price of prescription drugs, she's got the experience and the plans to get the job done. i think she's offering an optimistic sense of what the future can be under a clinton presidency and i think that's what will take the case to the people of new hampshire and beyond. >> and when you see, again, you guys won iowa, but when you look at the entrance poll there, that

age gap that popped in there, i can't remember ever seeing that in politics. president obama in 2008 had an advantage with younger voters but this was a 70-point margin for bernie sanders among people under 30. hillary clinton obviously did very well at the other end of the spectrum, but what do you make of that excitement -- >> he's done a great job firing up young people. and again, hillary spoke to that last night. she said i welcome that. it's great to get people into the system. she spoke directly to those young people. that's what she's doing really as we're speaking to each other, to say let me tell you about, you know, what my experience has been, how she's been an activist her whole life, how when she was a young person she went, again, in her first job, she didn't go -- she didn't go to wall street. what she did was go to the children's defense fund. she went to south carolina to get juveniles out of adult prisons. she went to alabama to get

segregated academies desegregated and have them lose their tax status. she went to new bedford to canvas on behalf of kids. she's fought for kids and families her whole life. and i think when young people know that about her, they see somewhat the sordid picture through the media, but when they find that out they'll get a better picture of her and that's what she's done her whole life. but there's no question that senator sanders has lit them up and, you know, to his credit he's done that. >> john podesta, appreciate the time. >> thanks, steve. meanwhile hillary clinton's rival, bernie sanders, is set to appear tonight on "saturday night live" in new york. before heading to the big apple, he rallied voters this morning. >> the only way we deal with the problems is when millions of people, including people who have given up on the political

process, young people who have never been involved in the political process, when people come together and demand that we have a government that represents all of us and not just a handful of wealthy campaign contributors, when we do that, there is nothing that we cannot accomplish. >> all right. bernie sanders this morning. msnbc's kasie hunt joins me now. kasie, you've been following bernie, the democratic race. you just heard from john podesta there. he wouldn't say it but is single digits, double digits the key divide in how to interpret this? >> i think it could be. i think when we got here this monday late overnight monday night, there was a sense that the sanders campaign knew this was going to tighten and both sides were talking about expectations that she would essentially close this gap. i feel like there's been a shift over the course of the last day

or so and a sense from the clinton campaign that john podesta was just touching on that she might not be able to get as far as they thought. i think those numbers with women are particularly a problem. i also think, i was at a bloomberg breakfast with some of her top aides and they had trouble even acknowledging that if she lost to bernie sanders by the same margin that he lost to her in iowa, they wouldn't hardly go so far as to say that would be a win so this expectations game is a little bit out of hand frankly. >> i'm curious, though, what is it in traveling around the state, what is it here that he's tapping into? you think back to obama-clinton in 2008 and the sanders people wanting to replicate the obama side of that as they can but he is much further along than barack obama was in 2008. what is he getting here that barack obama wasn't? >> he's uniquely suited to this state. we talk about and the clinton campaign will say, oh, it's his backyard and he'll win. >> i'm skeptical of that.

>> but there's a reason at the same time that this is the person that vermont has had representing them for so long. there's a reason why the only two independents in the senate come from new england, bernie sanders and angus king is from maine. and i think they have a valid point on that. you also have so many independents here in new hampshire. they're usually the largest section of the voting population and can obviously choose between primary to vote in. so i think whereas in other states, and i think in iowa and i think we're really going to see more of it down the line in these bigger states, having that democratic party label will be something hillary clinton can rely on and use to get herself ahead. i think the reverse is true here. people i talk to all say, hey, he was an independent for his whole entire life and we really like that about him. so i think he benefits from that too. >> yeah, the thing i try to keep in mind as we talk about iowa and new hampshire, the landscape does look very different when we take a step away from these

first two states. it is totally valid. kasie hunt, appreciate it. we are hours away from the final face-off between the republican candidates before tuesday's primary. the contenders giving their last pitches to new hampshire voters. that and more, next. ht helps prepe them for a healthy future. but up to 90% fall short in getting key nutrients ... ...from food alone. let's do more. add one a day men's ... ...complete multivitamin. with vitamin d and magnesium to help support healthy blood pressure. one a day.

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three days now until the first in the nation new hampshire primary and jeb bush, he is trailing up here in the granite state. a recent nbc news/wall street journal marist poll showing him in fifth place. he hosted his last town hall event earlier today ahead of tonight's gop debate. jordan frazier attended that town hall in bedford, new hampshire, and he joins us now. so, jordan, a year ago we were talking about this on the democratic side. a year ago nobody would have thought hillary/bernie as close as it is. nobody would have thought jeb bush would be in this situation where right now a good day he might get double digits here. >> absolutely. he did have a great day today, though. the town hall event he held in

bedfo bedford, it was the biggest town hall he ever had for the whole campaign. there were over 700 in the room, over 100 outside that couldn't make it in. it really is do or die for him. he had a little bit of a better performance last time with donald trump not on the stage. we'll see if he can repeat that tonight. >> one thing is he has struggled in these debates and i'm not sure -- is there a different jeb bush that people see in these town halls and in these debates? >> i think so, because there's no one who walks away with a bad impression of jeb bush. they think he's knowledgeable about the issues and are confident in his ability to be president of the united states but that doesn't break through on places like the debate stage. barbara bush, his mom, was on the campaign trail this week and she said she wants him to interrupt more in the debates of the she said he's very polite but needs to be a little more aggressive. >> i think it was a pretty good

diagno diagnosis of his problem. we had tim miller from his campaign on saying we are pressing on to south carolina. what's your sense of this campaign. if he ended up with 7%, 8%, buried in fifth place, can we really go on to south carolina? >> i think it's really about marco rubio. they occupy the same lane of the republican electorate. if he is way behind marco rubio coming out of new hampshire, it's difficult for the campaign to really gain any traction beyond that. you've seen the campaign be worried about this too. they were out with a full-page ad in the new hampshire paper here attacking marco rubio. they're on the air today with a brand new television ad hitting marco rubio. it's now standard in jeb bush's stump speech. so they are all in on attacking marco rubio here. >> the mentor and the protege. this is what it's come to, the mentor trying to take down the protege to keep his hopes alive. thank you, appreciate it. and jeb bush is among the candidates taking clear aim at marco rubio, as we're saying after his third place win. he calls it a win, it was third place, maybe a moral victory. what's what rubio could be in

for later tonight. >> when senator rubio gets here, when the boy in the bubble gets here, i hope you guys ask him some questions because it's time for him to start answering questions. >> marco rubio has been a politician since he was 26 years old. gifted beyond belief. but he's not from the outside. he's been a career politician. there's nothing in his record that would suggest that he could make a tough decision. >> i will say this, on each of the issues you just listed, marco's views are virtually indistinguishable from hillary clinton's. >> and now we'll bring in a man who knows a thing or two about meeting presidential candidates. steven desalvo is the president college of tonight's debate. we see them through television and through these debates how they interact with each other.

who strikes you and made an impression on you in person that is just at odds with what you see on tv. did you meet one of these candidates and say that is a totally different guy than i expected to meet. >> the guy that really struck me is chris christie, his personality. he's likeable. the students loved him. >> i used to cover new jersey college events. that jumped out at me too. >> so he comes off a little abrasive sometimes at the debates but he's really a likeable guy. the other one is jeb. i mean jeb also is just a good person off camera, a lot looser when you get to know him, a little bit stiff when he gets at the podium. >> it doesn't communicate on television, does it. >> i know. >> his mother this week, we were just talking about this, but his mother pretty much diagnosed it. >> we do a series called "life of the party" which gets millennials to ask questions about the candidate's life, where they're from, how they met their spouse, their favorite music. jeb did great at that event. he was relaxed, he had fun, and

somehow it didn't translate when he got to the next debate where he was a little bit stiff again. >> what about marco rubio, i think it was the conway daily sun up here, they had an editorial, they meet all the candidates, they sign the refrigerator up there, it's a great tradition. they had an editorial saying the marco rubio we met was robotic, the answers were all scripted. is that the guy you met too? >> there wasn't much of a difference when i met marco. i don't know if he was as receptive meeting me because he's been a little bit critical of the liberal arts colleges, so, you know, running one -- >> wants to put you guys out of business. >> exactly. so it's a little bit different dynamic. >> but you got the sense too there was a reserve there. >> yeah, yeah. >> now what about ted cruz, what is he like in person? >> he's another guy that can be a little bit stiff. he loosened up when we did an event a few weeks ago. we had a student in the audience who asked him about "star wars"

and he's a "star wars" aficionado. they landed him a light sabre and he was walking around posing with the light sabre, so he loosened up but he really is another guy that can't take that casual attitude to the debate stage. >> that's interesting. and he's used that, we've seen on social media, on twitter. he responds to donald trump with these -- i think it was a "happy days" reference in one of them. what about trump, did he take part in this too, your project? >> trump did. now, i knew him, i grew up in new york so i had a chance to meet him when i was in new york. he is very calculated, as you can imagine. but i'll give you a quick story. last time i saw him, he grabbed my tie to make sure i was wearing a trump tie. >> were you? >> which i was. and it's because he gave it to me the last visit. >> so it was a follow-up inspection? >> oh, yeah, hemato wanted to m sure i was wearing what he gave me. >> to me he's the toughest one to read. i look at him and he's such a

public figure but i wonder is he any different in private? does he turn it off ever? >> we had two of his sons on campus with him, and they talked about what he was like as a father. and it really humanized him. so it wasn't him saying it, they were saying it. and it just brought a different perspective to him because you don't see that most of the time. >> no, you don't get the oprah moments with donald trump. steve desalvo, thank you for joining us. after the break, dr. ben carson one-on-one with msnbc. why he says the cruz campaign has not been held accountable. that's next. almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. even a stag pool party. (party music) (splashing/destruction) (splashing/destruction) (burke) and we covered it, october twenty-seventh, 2014.

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you have now said there should be accountability for the mailers sent out that were misleading as well as the recorded calls that have been shared on the internet suggesting false information about you. has ted cruz sufficiently held

his campaign accountable in your view now? >> if he has, i haven't heard about it. as far as i know, nothing has changed there. and it's been made pretty clear by the revelations that somebody had nefarious motives in doing this. so when that's the case and when you can excuse that, then that it seems to me like typical washington ethics, which says the ends justify the means and, you know, right and wrong is not the issue, it's whether it's legal or illegal. >> that was presidential candidate ben carson just in the last hour reiterating that he believes someone on ted cruz's campaign should be held accountable for those phone calls and e-mails that falsely led some iowa caucus goers to believe carson had dropped out of the race. joining us now is our panel for the segment, jane newton small and daily mail political

reporter francesca chambers. so this carson versus cruz matchup, it's kind of interesting on this because let me give you my theory and tell me what you think of the situation. i think, look, ben carson, every vote he takes is potentially a ted cruz vote. i think ben carson is so angry about this, that he might stay in the race longer now. he's not going to win maybe but take enough votes to cost ted cruz. >> absolutely. certainly that seems to be his strategy here in new hampshire. he's like rallying. you saw this morning he went and rallied his troops and said don't believe anybody if they tell you i am dropping out. i am in this for the long run, came out and vote for me, support me, help me come back even stronger. and every vote that he takes in new hampshire, every vote that he gets here would be probably a vote that goes to ted cruz. ted cruz is trying to build on the iowa win, build momentum into south carolina and ben carson could be that spoiler and hurt his candidacy moving on to take on rubio or the establishment candidate. >> i keep saying when i talk about this story, francesca, a

fired-up ben carson, an angry ben carson. >> this is ben carson angry, this is ben carson happy. >> i feel like i should requested the words "on the inside." but from cruz's standpoint, look, he got the big win. he got his dream in iowa. he won it out there. has this affected him, do you think, on the republican side? do you think republicans are looking at this and saying this is a dirty trick or do you think they're looking and saying hey, fair's fair, it's overblown, it's not a big deal. >> i think if ben carson could really hammer that argument home, it would be really effective. as you just said, we're watching this interview and ben carson is still pretty even keeled even if he's very angry maybe on the inside about it. what i would be looking for tonight in the debate is whether he makes a big issue out of it when most americans are watching. i'm not sure how many americans are following this tit for tat over something that happened in iowa and so many of us are focused on what's about to happen here in new hampshire in this primary. >> so rubio, look, the targets

on rubio's back everybody is saying i think that's true. here's the one that interests me the most. chris christie seems to be saying, look, if i can't win, i'm at least going to take marco rubio down. >> and i think one day like literally tonight chris christie will call him an infant because in his last -- in the last week rubio has been increasingly younger in every statement that he's made. >> he's a bubble boy. >> the last one was the bubble boy, right? he's just so patronizing towards rubio. >> where does it come from? >> he said he's never governed, he's never had a tough choice in his life, he's had everything handed to him and he's basically saying he's untested and he's sort of the barack obama of this candidacy. do you want to elect a republican version of the barack obama or somebody with experience. that's really chris christie's entire argument. everything for him depends on new hampshire. if he can't have a definitive if not win or a good placing here, he really can't move on. to do that, he needs to take a

lot of votes from marco rubio. >> francesca, itf you're donald trump and marco rubio and chris christie are fighting -- >> maybe just stay out of the fray tonight if you're him. that's one strategy. because absolutely chris christie is going to be hammering marco rubio tonight on what chris christie says is a weak record of accomplishments. jeb bush also, he just launched a new ad touching on the same exact issue for marco rubio. so i think he's going to be getting it from at least two different sides. even though he didn't win the iowa caucus, he did surge to the front. i think they're very worried he could surge again on the ground here in new hampshire. at the same time, donald trump hasn't been in the state as much recently. he had to cancel some of his events because his plane wasn't able to land so he might want to take back the attention and put it back on him because we haven't been hearing about donald trump as much i feel in the last couple of days. >> let's switch to the democrats here too. i've been asking this question throughout the show, throughout the afternoon. set the bar for me of the

clinton campaign have basically now declared that bernie sanders is a lifelong new hampshire resident. if he's born in brooklyn, he's from burlington, vermont, and, yes, there's some overlap on the west, but most of new hampshire did not know much about bernie sanders before this campaign. they want everybody to say, look, bernie sanders won because it's next door. at what level -- what is the margin the clinton campaign can get this down to to say, yeah, it's a moral victory? >> if they can get within ten points of bernie sanders, that's really their goal. they're going to declare she's a comeback did. she came back from 30 points down to less than 10 and all the momentum is hers going into south carolina and that's really the meme they're looking for is a replay of bill clinton's 1992 race against paul tsongas. >>francesca, did you ever think

they'd be saying it will be a win if we only lose to a socialist by ten points? >> i think what they're going to say after this whether it's 10 points, 20 points or 30 points, he was always going to win here, hillary was never going to win here. on to south carolina where he's beating him by 30 points and she's bound to win there. i think they're looking forward to that. the only reason that they're playing in new hampshire i think at this point is because they have to. they have to be here. they can't just skip over the state entirely and then go on and try to win the nomination. >> he started out at 6 points here. there is no way he was always going to win this state. francesca chambers, jane newton small, thank you very much. appreciate that. still ahead, the kasich effect. the ohio governor holding several town halls today trying to swear some voters. will his up close and personal approach help him in tuesday's contest? we'll discuss. become especially important. from the makers of one a day fifty-plus.

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with just a few hours to go before the last gop debate ahead of the new hampshire primary, ohio governor john kasich is hosting several events in the state. nbc news has been following the kasich campaign and she joins us now. we were talking off the air and you've said the interesting thing you've noticed is the number of democrats showing up. not necessarily a sign for a republican candidate. >> yeah, a number of democrats actually do show up at john kasich's events. that happened earlier today and he said, oh, well, do you have any republican friends that you can talk to? but this has been kind of a common theme at some of his town halls. people will openly say they have been a democrat in the past. he's been getting questions at some of his town halls that are pressuring him from the left in some ways. questions about climate change

and campaign finance and stuff like that. but he is trying to reach out to a little bit more of the undeclared voters. >> so do we have a sense that whole jumble of candidates there, do we have a sense who he's drawing votes from on the republican side? if he gets 15%, is it hurting one in particular? >> i think it is a combination of people. john kasich will tell you he's trying to reach out to all of those voters. he wants to win over trump voters too because he comes from a working class background and can relate to the feelings of some of those voters, but at the same time people will like to say that if the establishment lane candidates, right, so christie, bush and rubio, though kasich will say i'm not part of the establishment. i've been fighting the establishment my entire life. >> all right, thank you for that. and we are at the end of our hour. you know what i'm going to do? i ordered this three hours ago. the last time i was hosting. it's the portabello napoleon dine mate. it's hardened now but i might still eat it, i'm hungry.

lawrence o'donnell will pick up our coverage and he'll be joined by a ted cruz supporter and donald trump supporter. see what happens when you mix those two together. that is next. seven. i just wish one of those people could have been mrs. johnson. [dog bark] trust me, we're dealing with a higher intelligence here. ♪ the all-new audi q7 is here. ♪

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complete with key nutrients we may need... ...plus it supports bone health with calcium and vitamin d. one a day vitacraves gummies. i'm lawrence o'donnell in manchester, new hampshire, the epicenter of the political universe from right now until about 2:00 a.m. wednesday morning. tuesday night we'll have winners and losers. there will be victory speeches and concession speeches and probably final speeches, as some candidates might decide to drop out of the race tuesday night. the last big event on the republican side of the campaign is the debate tonight, which this time will include donald trump, who said this at his last campaign event in new hampshire on thursday. >> february 9th, you've got to get out and vote. don't think we're going to