>> especially with health care. this is not about math, this is about people's lives. >> secretary clinton has been going around the country saying bernie sanders wants to dismantle the affordable care act. we're not going to dismantle everything. >> every progressive economist says the numbers don't add up. that's a promise that cannot be kept. >> that is inaccurate. i don't know what economist secretary clinton is talking to. >> i believe i can get the money that i need by taxing the

wealthy. once i'm in the white house, we will have enough political capital to be able to do that. >> secretary clinton, you're not in the white house yet. >> well, i know journalists have asked who you do listen to on foreign policy and we yet to know who that is. >> well, it ain't henry kissinger, that's for sure. >> that's fine. that's fine. the democrats bringing their a games again. it's friday, february 12, welcome to "morning joe." what a week. kind of a long one. >> it's still going. >> not complaining. fun, amazing. with us on set, former communications director for president george w. bush, nicolle wallace. former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner. also with us from washington, pulitzer prize winning columnist in and associate editor of the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson and in milwaukee, wisconsin, managing editor of bloomberg politics, mark halperin. i'm begging joe to take the day off but i think he's going to come in because i'm off monday. we're both absolutely exhausted. a couple side notes to get to

before we get to the debate. not sure they're equally as important. trump signed a baby. did you see this? actually signed the baby. there's the baby with the spiky hair. >> what does that mean "signed the baby"? >> i don't know, willie, when you look at this -- >> oh, my god. >> is that a trump baby. >> look at the hair on the baby. that's a trump baby. >> you have to get that tattooed, that's what you do. >> i'd love to sign your baby. you're not going to want to wash that forehead, you hear me? >> roik rickey bobby. >> there you go. he had a massive crowd in baton rouge last night. we'll get to his speech later. also steve rattner, we're going to talk about that more, the markets, what's going on, turmoil. >> sure, the markets are in turmoil because economies are in turmoil. you have china decelerating very rapidly, you have relatively slow growth going on in the u.s.

and disappointing brazil, it's rippled through the stock markets and you have an energy war going on between saudi arabia and our producers. and you have terrible -- significant worries about the banks in europe and so we're -- you know, i think this is 2008 but we are in the midst of a very tumultuous time. >> the word "recession" is being used a lot. >> the word recession is being used. economists are notably bad at predicting recessions. the imf failed to predict the last 220 recessions in various countries. >> that's not very good. >> so you don't know until it's going on but it feels like things are starting to come off the rails. >> it certainly could play into the conversation as we look at the presidential races on both sides of the aisle. just two days after the new hampshire primary, bernie

sanders and hillary clinton squared off again in milwaukee. clinton said that economist estimates say bernie's platform would cause the government to grow by 40% and the debate got more con ten ten, as clinton went on the attack over sanders' criticism of president obama." >> today senator sanders said president obama failed the presidential leadership test and this is not the first time he has criticized president obama. in the past he's called him weak, a disappointment. the kind of chris schism that we've heard from senator sanders i expect from republicans, not someone running for the democratic nomination to succeed president obama. [ cheers and applause ] >> madam secretary, that is a low blow. i have worked with president obama fst the last seven years,

i have been a strong ally with him on virtually every issue. do senators have the right to disagree the president? have you ever disagreed a president? i suspect you may have. [ applause ] >> senator, what i am concerned about is not disagreement on issues, saying that this is what i'd rather do, i don't agree with the president on that, calling the president weak, calling him aa disappointment, those kinds of personal assessments and charges are ones that i find particularly troubling. >> senator, if you would like to respond. >> one of us ran against barack obama, i was not that candidate. >> sanders is good with those one liners. he just puts it all the way after she has a long list. sanders again went after hillary clinton for taking millions in contributions from wall street. >> secretary clinton's super pac, as i understand it, received $25 million last reporting period, $15 million

from wall street. our average contribution is $27. i'm very proud of that. >> i would just say i debated then senator obama numerous times on stages like this. and he was the recipient of the largest number of wall street donations of anybody running on the democratic side ever. now, when it mattered, he stood up and took on wall street. so let's not in any way imply here that either president obama or myself would in any way not take on any vested interest, whether it's wall street or drug companies or insurance companies or, frankly, the gun lobby to stand up to do what's best for the american people. >> let's not insult the intelligence of the american people. people aren't dumb. why in god's name does wall street make huge campaign

contributions? i guess just fror the fun of it. they want to throw money around. >> she had some pretty strong moments last night. i think both candidates were great. one did not count out the other. maybe the bigger story in both these debates is that bernie sanders, i think, was deeply underestimated as someone who would just be knocked out. front page of the "wall street journal" "clinton's wall street talks were highly paid, friendly." kind of a window into what these speeches were like when she went to go speak to the big banks and companies on wall street. "in a discussion with goldman sachs executives, some of its asset management clients in october of 2013, the "wall street journal" is reporting that she spoke sympathetically about the financial industry, according to an attendee. asked about the poisoned national mood toward wall street mrs. clinton didn't single out bankers or any other group for causing the 2008 financial crisis. instead she effectively said "we're all in this together,

we've got to find our way out of it together" and that it was warm, sometimes often bordered on gushy. i think these speeches could, steve rattner, pease problem. i'm hearing that some of themmen them -- transcripts will make their way out to the public eye. will she get in front of this? would it be smart to release them? >> i think they are potentially a problem. they are a problem, i don't think anybody can deny that. i don't know that there's anything that shocking in the story in the sense that i think you mentioned you were going down to see an oil company or did go down to see an oil company. you weren't going to go down and there and talk about global warming -- >> you know what's funny? i didn't say about their industry. what's interesting about her talks is i accept her explanation that she goes to talk about current events and she goes -- she was the secretary of state, she goes to talk about america's role in the world, that's what we all do when we speak to companies. >> she thanked the audience for what they've done for the country.

>> and, listen, i'm a republi n republican. i mean, she had just come off of being secretary of state. like, mika and joe, i've seen your honor speeches. you talk about your expertise. >> i think -- and i think it's true from a politician's -- former leaders of either party. if you go to see some group you're going to say something moderately encouraging -- >> but you're acting like that's okay. >> i'm acting like that's okay? >> oh, gene, i hear gene. >> you're flicking it off. >> well, i'm flicking it off then gene can jump down my throat. a, i believe and you can disagree. wall street and the financial industry plays an important part of the country. 99.9% of the people who work on wall street are doing good things and honorable things. and for her to go to that

enclave and say "i respect the work you do" i don't think there's anything i don't think with that. >> except in the kabuki theater that is this election cycle. >> it's coming to backfire on. >> that i think there's nothing wrong with "i respect you, thank you for having me here." there is a difference between gracious and gushy, however. and i think that's going to be the question when people get to see and hear the speeches because, you know, if you have a strong position on, say, global warming and you go -- for some reason you're invited by an oil company to speak or something like that, i mean, you have a decision to make, right? and you either -- you're either going to take the money and be honest or you're going to decide you can't take the money and you don't want to speak to that group because you're going offend them and it will be awkward and won't work. and so there are decisions to

make. there's a stance that you take and so -- >> you have to be polite. >> i think we'll see it from the transcripts. >> like the article says in some cases she thanked the audience for what they had done for the country. i guess you can't walk in there when you're getting paid $225,000 for an hour of work and say "thank you for destroying the economy." that would probably be rude. but maybe that's a problem, too. >> mark halperin in the debate last night on this wall street issue, hillary clinton has made very clear, and she did in the the last debate but did it more strongly last night, was basically to say bernie sanders is a one-note candidate and that is that everything comes back to the greedover wall street. when he asked about race relations he talks about wall street and what it did african-americans and she's saying you're living in a fantasy world. you have this laundry list of liberal causes you want to put out there. she said, look, i'm progressive, too, but you won't get this done in congress. >> i think she was maybe a little stronger than he was last

night. and the critique you just said, that his ideas are unrealistic, i believe, is what she actually thinks and i think part of her problem in the runup to iowa and new hampshire, almost everyday she was saying something new about bernie sanders, testing out different frames to stop his momentum. this one may or may not succeed but it has the advantage of what she believes about him and she projected that consistently last night. >> well, it will be interesting because i think that's a great attack line, one-note candidate. the only problem is that his message actually addresses a multifaceted problem plaguing this country, from college debt, student loans to the -- what's plaguing the middle-class, to too big to fail to criminal justice reform which bleeds into race relations. it's not really one note. but it's a good attack. >> well, it's not one note but there's a huge gap on the foreign policy side. i think he did better last night than he has in some others on foreign policy but there aren't people in the world who can get up to hillary clinton on hold

their own. and secondly what she's trying to do, whether he's one note or not, he has proposals on what you said but a lot of them don't make sense financially or otherwise. to go to a single-payer health care system is not practical economically or administratively. i think people -- experts have been pushing back on this idea of free college for all. why should willie's kids have free college when he's -- >> whoa, whoa, whoa. >> -- he's perfectly capable of paying for it. so is ideas have some holes in them. >> well, we'll look at the other parts of the debate, especially the foreign policy argument which i think was really -- i got very excited when they got to that because i knew that would be a battle. he held his own but you're right. >> it's really hard to go back on the stage after losing by 20 points. >> she was amazing. >> i think the fact she was the strongest she's ever been if not stronger -- >> shows you something. >> you're not standing there on equal footing when you just lost by 20 points so i actually sort

of with having worked for candidates that lost new hampshire by almost 20 points, i was feeling a little bit of sort of her compensation for that and i thought it was impressive. >> it was extremely impressive and i think what they'll find, the campaign will find, is these -- trying to find a way that he personally attacks or trying to accuse him of doing something that's untoward isn't going to work. it falls flat. >> it fell flat when she tried to accuse him of personal attacks. >> on obama which nobody believes. >> it's nonexistent but on the issues it was an exciting debate and she brought it, willie. >> let's flip to the republican side. yesterday we showed you south carolina voters in mark halperin's focus group who were concerned with the language donald trump has used on the campaign trail. some of trump's opponents are sensing an opening with that line of criticism. >> even in our political culture, i teach my kids to be respectful. there are certain words you don't say no matter what setting

you're in, act with dignity, hold yourself up. and then you turn on the tv, you have a leading presidential candidate saying profanity from a stage. profanity from a stage. [ applause ] all these things undermine what we teach our children. >> i think the voters are assessing who is prepared to be commander-in-chief and i will say i'm not sure a lot of voters are excited about having a president who, when he gets rattled and upset begins cursing and yelling vulgarities. >> that criticism has had some effect. last night trump brought in 11,000 people. >> is that down from 18,000? [ laughter ] >> baton rouge, louisiana, with another 4,000 people trying to enter outside. trump resisted the urge of some in the audience to swear. >> political hacks, we have hacks, i know some of them. they're political hacks. they get their job -- i won't use foul language, i'm just not

going to do it: i'm not going to do it. they're all saying "do it, do it." i'm not. that's better, right? instead of -- right? a woman here is on my side. you're right. she said "don't do it," right? don't do it. because they always have -- even if it's not a bad word, if it's a little bit off they kill me so i won't do it. i'll never do it again, actually. >> mark, we all saw the reaction of that focus group in south carolina yesterday that we played this time on this show yesterday. do you think donald trump got the message? >> well, letting trump be trump is the slogan of the campaign and he's used language like that. people in south carolina won't like it as much. in other parts of the country it's been a big part of his identity as a guy who speaks his mind who isn't politically correct but i think he does understand the way he's conducted himself from iowa to new hampshire, then new hampshire down here, he's become a good politician and a guy who can understand not every state

is the same. he'll change the way he conducts himself in some ways but doesn't want to lose his essential trump-ness and i think that balance you saw in louisiana, you'll see in the south carolina where based on the last 24 hours he won't have as easy a time in south carolina not just because of thissish shub but you'll see cruz and others come at him hard. >> i know the foul language is a serious issue for south carolina so i'm certainly not trying to ends estimate but i think the other candidates look like nanny nanny pooh-pooh, you're using bad language, mommy! go after him about something -- >> we'll see how long it lasts. trump can't stop being trump. and halperin just gave us the name of trump's next cologne "essential trumpness." did you see the ted cruz ad? >> i did. i thought the actors and actresses were realistic. >> this is an ad from the cruz campaign hitting marco rubio on the question of immigration. >> i voted far guy who was a tea

party hero in the campaign trail and then he went to d.c. and played patty cake with chuck schumer. >> does that make you feel angry. >> makes me feel dumb. >> maybe you should vote for more than just a pretty face next time. >> apparently there was a problem there. it was revealed the woman who delivered the key line that we just saw, former porn star. >> wait, wait. why is this a problem? wait a minute, why is this a problem? >> let's explain what happened. within hours of the ad being posted, buzzfeed news, the keen eyes at buzzfeed news reported the woman amy lindsay has appeared in several soft porn movies. the cruz people said "the actress responded to an open casting call." that pulled the ad and said they would not have cast her. >> but it was only soft porn. [ laughter ] >> steve! >> wow, the friend of soft porn from steve rattner. >> i don't want to know that you know the difference. i don't even know the difference

but whatever. don't explain it to me, okay. but listen -- >> the guy with the clip born, was he playing halperin? >> yes. >> halperin is, like, famous, famous, now. >> but you guys, it's honest work, why would you take it away from her? >> if you're the guy chiding trump for swearing, you can't cozy up with a porn star. >> but it's saving her! it's salvation, nicolle. >> they should have gotten ahead of the story then. >> it's a distraction. >> whatever. we have major news to talk about here. in financial news, asian markets dropped sharply today. japan shares closed down by nearly 5% amid investor concerns over european banks. right now, u.s. dow features are up 99 points. the u.s., russia and other world powers have reached an agreement for a cease-fire in syria. secretary of state john kerry announced the deal in munich. it calls for a cessation of hostilities between forces

fighting against the assad regime and those fighting in support of the government. the deal calls for a swift expansion of humanitarian aid to besieged areas of syria. the agreement calls for the cease-fire to commence in one week after confirmation by the syrian government and opposition. the cease-fire does not apply to military force against terror groups like isis and al nusra front. and final finally, the world health organization says large scale trials for possible zika vaccines are 18 months away. according to the a.p., about 15 companies and groups have begun work on a product. the agency says it needs more time to determine whether there is a link between the zika virus and microcephaly, a condition where a child's brain doesn't develop properly. at one point they were talking about three years. so i guess that's good news. but that's a long time to wait for a vaccine. >> just going back to syria, this is a big deal. >> a huge deal, i agree. >> the fight iffing in aleppo

most recently, they were slaughtering tens of thousands of people there and this could be the first bit of progress in this huge mess we've seen in a long time. >> amazing work on the part of john kerry. we'll have richard engel on to talk about that. still ahead on "morning joe," after a tough finish in new hampshire, dr. ben carson is looking for a better showing in south carolina. he joins us live from one of the most conservative and evangelical areas of the state. but first, mark halperin has more of his south carolina focus groups. can marco rubio recover from his debate gaffe? and should jeb bush try to outrun his name or embrace it? as we go to break, a tiny fan who embraced jeb last night on the campaign trail. >> in the military, we have each other's backs, right? in my business we stab each other in the back. now, the bottom line is it can be better, don't you think? the first thing we're going to

do -- if i had eight years to live, i want to live during the obama administration because it seems like forever. [ laughter ] >> that is so cute. i like her little polka dotted dress. thank you for my jeb sign. uh-huh. and we'll be right back. i know how it is. you're all set to book a flight using your airline credit card miles. and surprise! those seats sometimes cost a ridiculous number of miles, making it really hard to book the flight you want. luckily, there's a better way... with the capital one venture card. with venture, you'll earn unlimited double miles

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mark, let's get more of your focus group. these focus groups are awesome and you are very good at them. he makes people feel comfortable to talk and brings them out. >> like dr. phil. >> he's the dr. phil of focus groups. he is. >> i think so. he is like that friendly, amiable doctor that listens to everything you have to say. wants to understand. >> i think that's right. >> so what did they say about marco rubio? what did you get? >> let's start with you again. marco rubio. >> polarizing. >> dedicated. >> spiritual. >> articulate. >> well spoken and he has the it factor. kind of like bill clinton had it. he's got the presence. >> don't care for him. >> typical politician. >> youthful. >> does marco rubio seem to you ready to be president right now? >> i think he's probably as ready as anybody is to be

president. i like the fact that he is a younger candidate. i'm not necessarily thinking that just because someone's older that they're going to have more experience or they're better equipped to lead our country. >> he showed his colors in the last debate when he started fumbling for what he wanted to say. >> he was rehearsed and i go along with it. well, the stuff he was saying was rehearsed over and over the same thing over and over and once you want him to get into more detail he started stuttering. he wasn't showing his feet. and i was strong on him before that. i think it hurt him and it made me look at him in a different way. >> he did make a snafu but he owned it, he 'fessed up to it, said it was his fault. that tells me he'll be honest. >> coming out of iowa and then new hampshire, people think he seems like he's got a good chance to win now? >> i think he's in the top three. >> i agree. yeah. >> i just can't figure the man out. i just don't trust him. >> i think with his age there is

a lack of some inexperience but i do believe that he will surround himself with good people to advise him and i think his youth will be a plus for him. >> so, mika, contrary to what some people said after new hampshire when rubio finished it, that he was dead, this group, undecided republicans in south carolina who, again, were dominating their thoughts by trump and cruz, they probably had a more favorable view of him and his prospects coming out of new hampshire than they did of either bush or kasich. i think the rubio folks can see a lot there although, again, not somebody as they see as challenging for first or second but third would be great for marco rubio from his perspective. on bush, there's some -- a little bit of optimism for the bush folks in this. when i showed them a clip of him talking about national security -- which is where he's staking his claim in south carolina -- they liked it but boy did they suffer from the same thing bush has suffered the in iowa and new hampshire, which

is bush fatigue. his brother has been featured in advertisements in the state and plans to campaign for him. sandy, do you think that will help jeb bush's chances if his brother comes to campaign for him here? >> i think it could go either way. i think it could hurt him or help him. >> i think it could help him also. he was very popular also. >> denice, you think bush 43 coming here is good for jeb. >> i think it could go either way. me personally it wouldn't change my opinion. i'm just thinking we've had enough bushes in the white house and we need to move on and i'm just tired. i don't want another bush. >> i think he's so far behind that i don't foresee his brother, his dad, the pope coming to help him. [ laughter ] >> you know, he's been one of the better-funded candidates in this race and he has not caught on, didn't do as well in iowa or new hampshire as he hoped. do people agree with denice that that's the reason? that the country feels there's been enough bushes. >> i think so. >> i think that's a negative that the machine is behind him. that the rnc is like cramming

him down our throat. >> i liked the first bush, didn't like that second bush and i was hoping that this bush was -- might be the right one. two out of three ain't bad. >> mika, on john kasich, i showed them his message of unity bringing the country together. everyone in the room loved it but they said they didn't know much about him and they didn't think he had a chance in south carolina so they weren't that inclined. >> they were like -- "kay-sick? is that how you say it?" but they were positive about him. nicolle, what's your take away. i thought the marco rubio response was a little polarizing. >> rubio is a polarizing figure the republican party. half the party feels the way chris christie articulated. the reason he repeats himself over and over again and he has a knowledge base this deep. the other half of the party and grass-roots -- and he has a lot of support in south carolina because of the way he speaks openly about his faith, he's the faith of the future of the republican party.

so people love him or are not drawn to him at all. >> remember on the george w. bush question, too? in south carolina, yes, but in the republican party at large, he's very popular. the way bill clinton is very popular in the democratic party, polarizing to other people. i think george w. bush is nothing but a plus for him in south carolina. >> oh, yeah. and i think jeb bush has -- i think this message of being weak, the branding that trump did shows up more than their actual sentiments about jeb bush. jeb bush is popular in south carolina. they all know president bush 43 and i think he's very much alive. you see it on his face in the campaign trail. this is a place where he is comfortable and he feels after new hampshire like he's in the fight. >> this primary is going to be another nail biter. it will be really exciting. we're planning on doing the show down there through the weekend because i believe it's on a saturday. this coming -- what day is today? >> a week from tomorrow. >> eight days. >> oh, a week from tomorrow. i knew that. coming up, donald trump turned out more than 10,000

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watching tvs get sharper, oh remotes, you've had it tough. bigger, smugger. and you? rubbery buttons. enter the x1 voice remote. now when someone says... show me funny movies. watch discovery. record this. voila. remotes you are back. the x1 voice remote is here. x1 customers get your voice remote by visiting xfinty.com/voiceremote. >> they tried the mother, that didn't work out so good. now he's bringing in his brother. i won't say anything. i'm going to save that for after his brother makes a statement because there's plenty to say

about what happened, okay? especially that last three months. and especially getting us in that quicksand. you know, we got in quicksand. i was against the war in iraq. we have to be given credit for vision. i was against the war in iraq because i said you're going to totally destabilize the middle east and that's exactly what happened. the middle east was destabilized. and that was a horrible call to go in. >> i want to talk about your campaign and the fact you're willing to have your brother come out and campaign with you on monday. is that a signal that your campaign is willing to embrace what your last name means politically? >> i've never had this problem that y'all apparently thought i had. i'm bush, proud of it, i love my brother, love my dad, love my mother. it's part of who i am. i have a record that i share. obviously as governor of the state of florida i'm focused on the detailed plans i've laid out to lift our economy up and keep us strong. so my brother will be part of that story and i'm proud of the

fact he's coming and honored. this is the first time he's stepped out in the political realm since he was president. i think there will be a lot of interest in what he has to say. >> so, nicolle, i think no question jeb bush is great candidate in terms of his potential. to actually be able to do the job. he has run on "jeb," not "jeb bush." literally standing right behien him is the sign "jeb!" is it convoluting to embrace the family. i know off real insight here. >> anyone that's watched the campaign, he's been asked about his brother and father since the day he announced. he's rightfully had to answer the same question that 17 candidates had to answer about iraq and knowing now what you know. john kerry had to answer that question. that's a permanent question for anyone who ever runs for president. what i thought was interesting, i heard jeb say those things before, i'm happy that 43 is being used in a good way in south carolina. he really does excite people. south carolina is not a caucus, it's a turnout state and to turn

out that part of the party that cares deeply about national security. if jeb doesn't get them, he doesn't have a strong finish there so that's a smart strategic decision. trump's decision to go after 43 not so smart. he's so far ahead he doesn't need to fight with 43 who's very popular in the republican party and south carolina. not smart. >> okay. so he did that in louisiana. you segued perfectly for me: political wire. "deadline to stop trump is approaching. let's assume trump's support is limited to an average of 35% in the upcoming primaries, can he still win? trump could certainly win if the field doesn't winnow itself. a princeton university simulation of the delegate process finds that an average across states vote share of 30% is enough to get 50% of delegates through super tuesday. to stop trump, the culling of the field better happen very soon.

in fact, there are two key deadlines -- february 29, which is fast approaching, narrow the field to a three-man race as a result of south carolina and nevada. march 14, narrow the field to a two-man race after super tuesday and the other march primaries. by the second deadline, it would have to be a trump versus someone race. mark halperin, why? why is that so important? why does it have to be trump versus someone to stop trump? >> we're in the phase now that transitioning from momentum where early state wins, no matter how narrow or big, give you momentum to help winnow the field to the period where delegate accumulation matters. at some point, if trump keeps winning, if nobody beats him in any state after iowa, he'll have the most delegates. that doesn't mean he'll have a majority and it will be hard to deny him the nomination. ted cruz has shown he has the capacity to take on trump, he beat him in iowa, he could beat him potentially in south carolina. the question is not just the

crowded field of the three establishment guys dividing the vote, but can one of them show they can be a titan big enough to stand up to trump and cruz? they have to do that by mid-march or trump will be impossible to stop except maybe by cruz. up next, after a debate that centered on everything from health care plans and foreign policy, the democrats turn their attention to death and the african-american community. we will look at the new powerful ads out today. kasie hunt joins us. as we go to break, listen to what bernie sanders told her yesterday. >> there is a huge gap right now between congress and the american people. what presidential leadership is about is closing that gap. >> and you don't think president obama has successfully closed the gap? >> no, i don't. i think he has made the effort but i think what we need -- when i talk about a political revolution is bringing millions and millions of people into the political process in a way that does not exist right now. the future belongs to the fast.

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42 past the hour. just out this morning, a new ad the clinton campaign will start running statewide in south carolina this weekend and it features a pastor who lost his wife in the mother maemanuel church shooting. >> somebody called me on the phone. she said reverend thompson? i said yeah. she said there's a shooting around the church. and i just dropped the phone. first thing came to my mind was we need to make some changes. hillary is really committed to making sure that guns don't get into the wrong hands and is standing with the president to get stronger gun laws so no family ever has to go through anything like this again. >> i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. >> let's bring in msnbc political correspondent kasie hunt. kasie, we'll talk about that ad in just a moment but you spoke to bernie sanders yesterday, you had a good conversation with him. that was before the debate.

how is he feeling right now? obviously he's rolling out of new hampshire but south carolina is a very different state for him. >> it is, willie. and they are trying on all of these different fronts to ramp up. they have a challenge being a small campaign. they're trying to move staff into nevada and south carolina but, more importantly, they're trying to make in roads with some of these minority voters. his campaign knows that they do have to build up with those coalitions and senator sanders told me in our interview he know he is can't win the democratic nomination if he doesn't. now, the question is whether or not he can particularly win over young voters. older african-american voters might be tougher. they acknowledge that. but that age gap between senator sanders and secretary clinton is so wide that there's potential there, they believe, for him to win over some of those votes. and one good example of this is the garner family, eric garner, of course, put in a choke hold by new york police and died.

his mother is supporting secretary clinton but his daughter has gotten on board with bernie sanders and put out this powerful new ad yesterday. >> my dad's name is eric garner. no one gets to see their parents' last moments and i was able to see my dad die on national tv. i'm behind anyone who's going to listen and speak up for us and i think we need to believe in a leader like bernie sanders. >> it is not acceptable to me that we have seen young black men walk down streets in this count country, be beaten and be killed unjustly. >> there's no other president that's speaking about this. people are dying. this is real. this is not tv. we need a president that's going to talk about it. >> the african-american community knows that on any given day some innocent person

like sandra bland can get into a car and then three days later she's going to end up dead in jail. >> i believe bernie sanders is a protestor. >> when a police officer breaks the law, that officer must be held accountable. [ cheers and applause ] >> he's not scared to go up against the criminal justice system. he's not scared. >> i want to see an america where when young black men walk down the street, they will not be harassed by police officers. they will not be killed, they will not be shot. >> and that's why i'm for bernie. >> that's not just a web ad. they plan to air that on cable tv which is significant. and they've taped a couple testimonial type ads from other african-american supporte yersso state representatives in south

carolina that are about to go up on television there. there's the strategy going forward. >> incredibly powerful. whoever is making his ads deserves a raise, we can agree. >> oh, my gosh. >> tad devine. >> he's good. >> gene robinson, let's go to you, you're a south carolina guy. you've seen a couple ads, you know a majority of democratic voters are african-american in this primary historically. how do you see this shaking out for the african-american vote? >> well, hillary clinton starts way ahead among african-americans in south caroli carolina, there's no question about that. but after new hampshire, i do think voters in south carolina in general, democrats in south carolina, are going to give bernie sanders a listen. now, that doesn't -- and i've seen stories reporting that they are giving him a listen. that doesn't mean they're necessarily switching allegiance. it's just that when he gets up on the soap box now in a place like my hometown, orangeburg, south carolina, where there two

black colleges, a lot of young kids, a lot of political activism, very highly educated black community people are going to pay attention and parse the proposals of the two candidates and make up their minds. but she starts away head and should be expected to carry a majority of african-americans in south carolina. we'll just have to watch how things develop in the next week. >> this fight for the black vote is obviously unfolding and from every different dimension. yesterday the congressional black caucus endorsed hillary and had some pretty harsh words for sanders and his -- the timing of his commitment to the civil rights movement. how do you think all that will play with the black community not just in south carolina but as these go on? >> you know, it plays in hillary clinton's favor, clearly. look, there's a danger in looking too closely at what black leaders do. i mean, african-americans --

there are like 40 million african-americans. it's bigger than the population of spain so obviously it's not monolithic and people are going to make up their own minds. it's certainly not decembisposi it certainly won't settle the case. >> you see the ads so far, the bernie sanders ads that are working on this issue, appealing to the african-american community, they're people in them. >> hers was, too, though. i thought her ad we started that segment with -- >> that was a good ad. >> it was the best ad i've seen of hers of the cycle. >> something about it felt much more like a political ad instead of someone's story. >> i don't know, he lost his mother in that shooting. >> i'm talking about the producing of it. i totally understand that. and i think he's got to find a way to tie his multifaceted message to the fact it does address the needs of african-americans. it will be tough because she has

a lot of ground in the african-american community. >> steve raises an important point yesterday, though, about the congressional black caucus. you had john lewis, a civil rights icon who very boldly came out and said "i never saw bernie sanders throughout marching with us. he's a johnny come lately on civil rights issues." now, bernie sanders would argue with that and say he's been fighting since the 1960s, but that was a very, i thought, tough -- >> that's why i raised it because i thought it was very tough and the clintons are so embedded in the black community. bill clinton used to call himself the first black president and all this stuff. i think it will be hard. >> here's a question. one quick question, though, my question is whether we will see any sort of generational divide among african-americans. >> good question. >> the way we saw in new hampshire. that's an open question for me. >> and you have to look at the state of african-americans right now under obama which hillary clinton has embraced. unemployment is higher than

unemployment across the board and we've had several guests come on this set, including the head of african-american studies at princeton university making the argument that african-americans have a very, very tough road ahead. their lives have not improved. >> that was one of bernie's best lines last night. >> sanders' economic message should resonate with afrs. >> i agree. ahead, we'll get marc morial's take on -- he's the president and ceo of the national urban league as both campaigns vie for high profile endorsements in the african-american community. plus, subpoenas for the clinton foundation. we'll dig into the morning's "washington post" story on that. we'll be right back. woman: it's been a journey to get where i am. and i didn't get here alone. there were people who listened along the way. people who gave me options. kept me on track. and through it all, my retirement never got left behind. so today, i'm prepared for anything we may want tomorrow to be.

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i want to say happy 63rd birthday to jeb bush. happy birthday, jeb. [ applause ] the other candidates did more than just make post's to jeb's facebook wall. they sang happen p birthday to him. take a look at this. ♪ happy birthday to to you ♪ happy birthday dear jeb bush ♪ happy birthday to you >> that guy is a serious loser. we'll look at the debates at the top of the hour. loo whack the cat dragged in. >> willie, looking good. >> you were supposed to take the day off. i told you to take the day off. >> you can't keep this man away. >> i was chained to the radiator

down stairs. i macguyver through. i got a hard boiled egg and toothpick and picked the lock. >> did you like the debate, willie? >> we'll talk more about it. i feel there were questions that needed to be asked. >> i feel like they didn't ask key questions. >> there were a lot of debates. i was looking at the candidates halfway through and i said this is such a grind for everybody that does this. you wonder how they keep going. >> all right, we'll look at how both candidates did and the debate in general and also donald trump had a very small crowd in the south, it must be all that cursing. >> oh, wait. >> we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ for your retirement, you want to celebrate the little things, because they're big to you. and that is why you invest. the best returns aren't just measured in dollars.

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we agree that we've got to get unaccountable money out of politics. we agree that wall street should never be allowed to wreck main street again. but here's the point i want to make tonight. i am not a single-issue candidate and i do not believe we live in a single-issue country. yes, does wall street, a big financial interest along with drug companies, insurance companies, big oil, all of it have too much influence? you're right. but if we were to stop that tomorrow, we would still have the indifference, the negligence that we saw in flint. we would still have racism holding people back. we would still have sexism preventing women from getting equal pay. we would still have lgbt people who get married on saturday and get fired on monday. and we would still have governors like scott walker and others trying to rip out the heart of the middle-class by making it impossible to organize and stand up for better wages

and working conditions. so i'm going to keep talking about tearing down all the barriers that stand in the way of americans fulfilling their potential because i don't think our country can live up to its potential unless we give a chance to every single american to live up to theirs. welcome back to "morning joe," it's friday, february 12. >> what did you think? >> i thought both candidates were really good. and the conversation on foreign policy was sort of reveltory again. i think bernie sanders has work to do there. the middle-class and wall street, look at the "wall street journal," there's a big article on her speeches and her being gushy and saying what they want to hear. >> but on the debate, though. i think i agree with nicolle, coming up from a 20-point loss, willie, that's pretty strong. >> that's true. absolutely. >> i don't think that's a debate that's going to move the meter in the way the republican debate did, but hillary clinton showed no signs of weakness or wear from getting blown out in new

hampshire. >> steve, i heard a lot of people say that hillary spoke to people's head, bernie spoke to people's heart. that's why i don't know how much gets changed by that. but for hillary clinton right now ahead by about 40 points in south carolina, according to the last poll, that's pretty good. >> i don't know how much gets changed either but i think coming off that loss to go in there and give what i think is probably her best debate performance so far. she was calm, conversational. >> measured. >> and, in fact -- >> clinical. >> not to sound partisan but i think the contrast with sanders, who's incredibly passionate and i respect that, was more dramatic. he came across as more fiery than perhaps he might have wanted to. >> it was a good debate. >> one of the things that bummed me out, willie, was the outfit she wore -- >> what are you talking about? >> an updated nehru jacket i actually wore at the last oscar party. >> she's getting credit for that outfit she wore. >> well, i did, too.

i did, first and my question is -- >> oh, my god. >> who wore it better. >> i ought to punch him. >> with respect to you. what should i wear this year? >> i think you go with one of your -- those velour track suit look that you prefer on weekends. >> i'm either going to do that or wear bell bottoms -- >> all right, joining the conversation, i'm going to save you from yourself, nbc news political director and nmoderatr of "meet the press," chuck todd. editor of "the fix" at the "washington post," chris sill liz a. >> why is he so negative? donald trump had a massive crowd. >> and took his toy out of the sandb sandbox. and managing editor of bloomberg politics john heilemann. >> donald trump brought in

11,000 people in baton rouge, louisiana cillizza with another 4,000 people trying to enter outside. trump talked about a second presidential term, isis, and taking on president george w. bush when he campaigns for his brother in south carolina. >> if i get elected president, i'm going to be in the white house a lot. i'm not leaving. [ cheers and applause ] we have deals to make. who the hell wants to leave, right? i'm just telling you, i can do it all in four years, but if i'm doing a great job, let me have four easier years. 'let me have four years of relaxation, i'll do most of the work in the first four years. as a country, we don't win anymore. we just don't win anymore. we don't win with isis. can you imagine? we don't win with isis. i always said general douglas macarthur you are general george patton, you say not out isis, what would it take? one day, one week. they tried the mother, that didn't work out so good.

now he's bringing in his brother. i won't say anything. i'll save that for after his brother makes a statement because there's plenty to say about what happened, especially that last three months and especially getting us in that quicksand, you know? we got in quicksand. i was against the war in iraq. we have to be given credit for vision. i was against the war in iraq because i said you're going to totally destabilize the middle east and that's what happened. the middle east was destabilized. [ applause ] and that was a horrible call to go in. political hacks. we have hacks. i know some of them. they're political hacks. they get their job -- i won't use foul language. they're saul saying "do it, do it." that's better, right? a woman here is on my side, you're right, she's saying "don't do it," right? don't do it. because they always have -- if

it's a bad word, even a little bad word, they kill me. i won't do it. i'll never do it again. >> there's his word in baton rouge. he's in louisiana, everybody's scrambling around to get a couple hundred people in south carolina. it reminds me while everyone else was trying to get a couple hundred people in new hampshire, he was doing a rally for thousands down in south carolina. trump keeps playing not only the hand he's being dealt but seems to be looking ahead and here, boy, 11,000, 12,000 people in louisiana which is coming up not too far away. >> joe, it's my understanding -- >> oh, my gosh, look at that. >> he has his schedule laid out for the rest of the month. they have not deviated at all from this strategy of doing the big rallies, doing march 1 states a little bit ahead of where others are doing march 15

states or i think they've done two florida rallies. they're doing a different strategy scheduling wise with him. they dominate a media market while others are somewhere else and it allows them to have that big lead when they go into these -- they build a big lead in these farther-away states so by the time everybody else catches up, they're playing catch up. >> we'll see if it continues to work. but so far it's been a pretty good strategy for them. >> so far it has. john heilemann, again, you look at people that are draw iing a couple hundred in south carolina. i don't kwhier tcare who the ca is. i'm tired of the lazy -- people say "why do you cover trump?" i don't care if mike huckabee came back into the race and had 14,000 people in -- you know, in -- i was going to say nova

scotia but then it would be ted cruz, in maine, we would be covering it, it's a political pham n phenomenon and strategically he's one step ahead of everybody else. >> we sometimes make too much out of crowd size but when you have a candidate who over many months consistently turns out music festival sized crowds from state to state over and over in a consistent way it speaks to a level of interest and enthusiasm in his candidacy that other candidates don't have. the challenge for them, of course, is to turn those people out and get them to vote. in iowa donald trump fell short. in new hampshire he triumphed and in south carolina if trump continues to do this, he's obviously got the upper hand in a lot of ways and it's interesting. not only is he bringing up the big crowds, but just the fact that as everybody else is camped out in south carolina, donald trump is looking ahead to the march 1 states and generating

enthusiasm in states that will vote down the line and so both tactically and strategically these events make sense. >> and willie, newspapers and the twitterverse and bloggers were going crazy when donald trump was down in south carolina instead of new hampshire. he ended up -- just a massive victory, 34% to 16% and he bent ahead and was ahead of everybody else going into south carolina and doing well. the question that people ask and you just really can't be looking at the reality in front of you, like most people have not in the media for the past six months is the question that's -- is do the crowd sizes equal voting turn. >> well, it didn't in iowa but actually he got like 46,000 votes in iowa which no other republican had ever gotten before that year then you look at new hampshire, it's massive. it's safe for us to assume if the polls say he's ahead and

he's polling 10,000 plus, that's a story because that equals voting, that equals wins and now even people like taeg ban goddard are saying you shut this guy down by the middle of march or it's going to be too late. >> that's been the question and the criticism for trump and bernie sanders, do crowds translate to votes? we've learned for both of them knew the answer is yes. certainly in new hampshire it's been and we'll see -- and donald trump is laying out a strategy, as chuck said. he'll win through the south, he believes, so he's going to louisiana, he'll stop at other points along the way. one question i do have, donald has shown himself to have great political instincts, which button to push and when to push them. the george w. bush critique in south carolina, i'll watch that closely. george bush has a 78% approval rating among republicans. so he'll have to be careful the way he goes after donald trump and jeb. >> donald trump is accusing ted cruz of spreading negative information about him and marco rubio in south carolina through automated phone call which is cruz personally denied.

>> do you know who did the phone calls? >> we have nothing to do with them. >> do you denounce them? >> i don't know what they were. we have nothing to do with them. i have read reports of what is being said but somebody sells doing them, it's not us. >> but trump insisted the calls, reported by the "washington post," are the work of cruz tweeting "cruz caught cold in lie after denial of push polls. like lies with ben carson. how can he preach christian values? and trump also countered cruz for hitting him and rubio on the supreme court's same-sex marriage decision. >> the two leading competitors in the republican primary both said publicly that that decision was the settled law of the land, we had to accept it, surrender and move on. what does it say when leading republican presidential candidates are reading obama's talking points on gay marriage? >> trump tweeted late last night quote "lying cruz put out a

statement, trump and rubio are with obama on gay marriage." cruz is the worst, liar, crazy or very dishonest. perhaps all three? >> sam stein, i find it breath taking that ted cruz of all people would question opposition to same-sex marriage when it's ted cruz who says one thing when he's in midland, texas, and another thing when he's in manhattan. when he's in midland, texas, why jesus wouldn't like it. it's the end of our family structure. it's when he gets up to manhattan in fund-raisers he's, well, that's the law, he seems to be fine with it. so for ted cruz to be saying that down there really seems to kind of drive home the point that this is a guy that will do robocalls. this is a guy who will lie about ben carson. this is a guy who will do anything to win. >> yeah, that seems to be cruz's

reputation at this point and it worked effectively in iowa, for what it's worth. but he is creating a sort of wake of bad will in the aftermath. i talked to people in new hampshire, for instance, who said they could never consider voting for ted cruz because of what he had done to ben carson. of course, these were ben carson supporters, but they took it very seriously. the bigger picture here is what sticks out to me which is, you know, cruz is -- there's a personal cost to what cruz is doing. there are gay people in this country who have seen progress in the past couple years, who do enjoy the right to marry now because of the supreme court and you have a leading republican presidential candidate talking out of the side of his mouth in a manhattan fund-raiser and another way at a rally. and i think that, you know, at some point we should step back and wonder, you know, what is the personal cost to this type of win at all cost strategy that cruz is having? because it seems pretty high. okay, the "washington post" is reporting that state

department investigators last fall issued a subpoena to the clinton foundation seeking documents about the charity's projects that may have required approval from the federal government while hillary clinton was serving as secretary of state. the full scope and status of the inquiry have not been made clear. the "post" also reports the subpoena asked for records related to clinton aid houma abedin. in 2012, she was employed simultaneously by the state department, the foundation, clinton's personal office, and a private consulting firm with ties to the clintons. there is no indication the state department is investigating clinton herself. clinton spokesman brian fallon called the investigations fishing expeditions and suggested the probe was politically motivated? >> who's conducting this? >> the state department. >> the inspector general. >> it's the inspector general that is politically motivated, just like for the state department john kerry's state

department, chris cillizza, just like it is the justice department's -- our intel agency's ig who is politically motivated, too, the clintons just can't -- you know what makes me sad is it makes me sad that hillary clinton and her people continue to attack the integrity of barack obama. i think barack obama has been a great president and i just wonder why she's attacking barack obama this way. i don't think bernie sanders has questioned the integrityover barack obama's state department. i don't think -- >> i think we're getting a little far out there. >> no, let's be serious here for a second. when your hack spokesman starts attacking inspector generals and the intel agencies and your hack spokesman starts attacking the integrity of inspectors generals in john kerry's state department you're desperate and i agree

with you because of their hack spokesman's approach to this attacking the integrity of inspectors generals that, yes, hillary clinton's week just went from bad to worse. >> yeah, look, you know, here's the problem right? she gave an interview with rachel maddow and was asked about the idea that a lots and lots of people -- democrats importantly -- don't believe she's honest and trustworthy. and her answer was "well, the reason for that is because there's been years and years of concerted republican attack on me that none of it has been founded." >> and i have the scars to prove it. >> and i have the scars to prove it, exactly, mika. now, that is true. there's no question that republicans have spent years sort of not liking the clintons. but at the same time -- and this is why this latest investigation matters -- this is the state department and the fbi. this isn't the house select committee on benghazi. this isn't ted cruz. this isn't donald trump: .

it's hard to make the case this is a vast right wing conspiracy when you have -- and, remember, there are now three ongoing investigations, inquiries, there's the state department into the clinton foundation and houma abedin, there's the state department into the private e-mail server and the fbi into the private e-mail server as well as what's going on in congress. those three investigations have nothing to do. i'm pretty sure the state department and fbi don't take their marching orders from paul ryan or donald trump or ted cruz. i think it undermines that idea that this is somehow a orchestrated attempt to bring her down. that may exist but that's not what these investigations are. >> i think the two questions that people take away from this, and i don't think it's too complicated is why you would do speeches to wall street if you are going to run for president, take such large sums of money and why would those transcripts be private and why would you have your own servier and why is it inexpoliticsable. >> chuck todd, again, for

hillary clinton to be trotting out the vast right wing conspiracy when you have when you have the justice department, the state department, the inspectors generals from the intel agencies actual ly these are obama administration officials doing. this is all obama administration doing this, no republicans, it seems it makes her seem more desperate and undermines her credibility further. >> one in three new hampshire democrats said the most important characteristic was honest and trustworthiness. one in three democrats. her explanation may be exactly right to rachel about the -- that this is year and nothing has been proven but over time you can't help but leave a stain on her and all this stuff. it -- the -- that's what she's facing right now and this is coming at a rough time.

it duds -- this is i agree with chris, you're not talking about house republicans and the clinton campaign will say one of the inspector generals used to work for chuck grassley and this or that they're put in these positions because they're thought to be less partisan than your average person and ultimately the fbi's not partisan at all so this is taking a huge toll. i don't know how they fix this. but that honest and trustworthy -- look, off character problem and a connection problem. bill clinton had a character problem but he never had a connection problem. so he could overcome it. her issue is she has both this character question hanging over her head in honest and trustworthiness and then she's got some one in four voters who don't believe she cares about people like me, you know, that

issue. so she's fighting this dual front. it's a big problem. >> and also, chris cillizza, she doesn't have a message. she just doesn't have a message. you've written about this. it doesn't cut through. >> i was just very quickly before that to chuck's point about the 34% of new hampshire voters, democratic voters who say she's not honest and trustworthy. you know what sanders won that group by? 92-6. 92-6. just to further accentuate it. on the message thing, yeah, look, what's bernie's message? political revolution. millionaires and billionaires. what was barack obama's message? hope and change. compassionate conservatisconser. go down the line. you need something that sums up your candidacy and this is important. is aspirational in some way, right? it makes people want to believe that there's some more to it than just a series of strategic talking points and even if you watched the debate last night -- and i thought she was quite good -- she's not aspirational. there's no 50,000 foot message.

every message is we're going to do this then this then this then this. and that's not terrible but it tends not to be the thing that inspires people to be for you. >> chris cillizza, thank you very much. chuck todd, who do you have on "meet the press" this weekend? >> i'm not sure if i'm allowed to promote this but i believe i have mr. kasich and mr. trump. >> well, you just did! >> i'm telling you -- >> that's the way to do it, actually. >> just between us. >> okay, got it. that's really cool. we'll be watching, thank you, chuck. sam and john, stay with us. still ahead on "morning joe," dr. ben carson joins us live. plus the land of lee atwater. south carolina is known for occasionally getting just a little bit nasty. >> just a skoesh. >> so we'll show you a new ted cruz ad just out this morning, we'll bring in steve kornacki, andrea mitchell -- >> is this the one with the porn star. >> i think it's honest work and they should have kept the ad. kept her busy.

>> now steve i heard steve say well, it was only soft porn. >> did you hear that? >> i heard that. >> what is the difference? >> i thought you didn't want to know the difference. >> mika wants to know the difference, willie. >> is there a difference? >> we'll talk off line. >> we donknow the difference. how do you not know the difference? >> we'll be right back.

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>> i voted for a guy who was a tea party hero in the campaign trail then he went to d.c. and played patti cake with chuck schumer and cut a deal with amnesty. >> does that make you angry? >> makes me feel dumb for trusting him. >> maybe you should vote for just a pretty face next time. >> that was a new ad hitting marco rubio on immigration. the problem, as some people pointed out, the woman who delivered the line at the end was a former porn star. within hours of the ad being posted buzzfeed news reported the woman has appeared in several soft porn films, at least that's what steve tells me, it's soft porn. the cruz campaign released a statement saying "the actress responded to an open casting call, was not vetted by the

production company, they've pulled the ad." >> but i don't get this -- >> mika thinks and i agree with her that because this woman is doing honest work she should be glad to be doing honest work. >> it's a real job. don't judge her. >> everybody is talking about christian values. >> maybe she was supporting her family. >> let me who is without sin cast the first stone. maybe she's turned over a new leaf or something like that. >> now you're making this sound dirt eye. >> we're not all puritans. >> or maybe ted cruz just likes hiring porn stars. which is it. >> okay, we're not all puritans here so let her have some work but the bigger question is who is the writer who looked at that commercial and said "ah, i know that actress, i know that actress." >> exactly. >> i've got a big scoop, i know that actress. >> good point. good point. >> thank you. appreciate that. joining us no on set, msnbc anchor and political correspondent steve kornacki. how are you holding up there, steve? >> so far so good. >> in washington, nbc news chief

foreign affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell. and in greenville, south carolina, nbc news correspondent hallie jackson. hallie, it seems ted cruz is turning his attention to hillary. tell us about it. >> i know we can talk about that porn star ad all day, guys, but there's another out from ted cruz where he's taking aim at hillary, just a sign of where he's trying to go in south carolina, throwing red meat to the primary electorate as he tries to get momentum over these next ten days. take a listen to the ad out against her. >>. ♪ damn it feels good to be a clinton, a shameless politician ♪ always plays her cards right ♪ got a crew for the fight on the airwaves, left dogs ♪ in the press keep their mouths tight because a ♪ clinton never needs to explain why it is what ♪ they've done war who ♪ a real clinton knows they're entitled and you don't get to

know ♪ what they do >> what difference does it make? ♪ for clinton, what's loaded on some fat file ♪ clinton pays the victim for promotion, clinton kills it off with ♪ a smile, it feels good to be a clinton snows. >> all right, a spoof of "office space" cruz getting cheeky with his ads, trying to throw pop culture references in there but it's interesting. what we've seen from ted cruz in south carolina versus what we saw in new hampshire, he's a more revved up energized candidate and i think, my guess would be that's because of the crowd he. so he fis feeding off the energy from folks, particularly in the upcountry in south carolina and then as he moves into the weekend in the debate, he's doing debate prep in south carolina before speaking at a forum where we'll hear from marco rubio, jeb bush, and i believe from ben carson as well. so for ted cruz, this is a state

where he feels really confident and where he is going to be rolling out not just ads against hillary clinton like the one you just saw but against donald tru trump. >> hallie jackson, thank you very much. >> willie, did i hear the "d" word in that ad. >> several times. >> he said the "d" word. >> what's that? >> i wouldn't say it. i mean, it's very interesting attacking donald trump for swearing and he's doing ads that have vulgarities. >> it was a -- >> it hurts. it hurts me because there are kids that watch this show. >> i know where you're going there. >> uh-oh. >> and -- >> that's a call back to "office space." it's a very specific reference. you have to know that scene and that that song was in that movie. >> i loved "office space," okay? but it was like rated x, so why is he doing this? and i just wonder, john

heilemann, if ted cruz's ads are being too clever by half. you started with the donald trump ad with the kids playing with the trump action doll which, you know, makes you laugh. >> funny. >> funny, imminent domain, they trashed that. >> and the parents are scared. >> then you got the porn star ad that ted cruz put out and now you got this -- again, for 12 of us that saw, love, and worship "office space," we get that. i'm guessing 98% of voters in the primary, older voters especially, don't understand why he's swearing, having a rapper swear in an ad. it just seems like he's being too clever by half here. >> sure, although, look, the environment that we've had for the last couple months is that the airwaves are so jammed with ads right now this almost nothing is breaking through. and in voters already are sick of seeing political ads on their tvs all night long in places like iowa, new hampshire, and

now south carolina. so i think for a lot of campaigns and for super pacs the notion is how do we break through with something that's going to drive earned media coverage? and so the cruz theory here seems to be, you know, if we can get generate attention for these ads, not necessarily because they'll impact voters directly but get a bunch of coverage and drive certain issues and ideas into the bloodstream to get those issues raised, no one has been able to figure out a way to go after donald trump that's been effective so far. i think to suggest the notion they have to do this in a somewhat subversive, somewhat playful and funny way, i don't know if they're right or wrong but i can see the logic to it. >> and, of course, andrea, cruz making light of hillary and her server there. and we saw -- we were talking to chris cillizza last segment talking about yet another investigation, but this one having to do with clinton money. it seems to be death by a thousand nicks. just constant bad headlines from

a lot of different sources. >> yeah, and the judge this week saying that the state department had to release all of the remaining e-mails by the end of february so not just once a month but over the next couple of -- well, next two or three weeks they're going to have to -- two weeks, i guess, they're going to have to release all of those e-mails in batches in just before super tuesday so it will coincide with nevada and south carolina and right before super tuesday on the last day of february they're going to release the whole rest of them. >> oh, boy. >> and they say they've been slowed down by the blizzard because the state department shut down but also by the fact that every time they try to release something there's a disagreement from the intelligence agency telling them they can't. let me just get in on that ad for a moment. it's funny and clever, i guess. but i think we've kind of been numbed to the fact that this is really a -- dare i say a new level of lack of civility. we're talking about a

presidential campaign here and just take a look at the imagery. i don't know. i'm old-fashioned. >> you're talking about the server one? >> yeah. exactly. the "office space" spoof. i just -- i'm not sure i'd go there. especially not in the bible belt. i'm not sure how that plays in south carolina. >> and, you know, he -- so ted cruz is, again, been pushing at it for some time and he was reading a bedtime story, i forget about whom, in iowa which supposedly worked. they seemed -- i don't know, they just seem a bit silly but maybe that breaks through for some voter but i wouldn't think it would break through for the traditional cruz voter. >> he loves the pop culture references, though. he makes the fonzie references on twitter. he was responding to trump for a while on tractor-trailer, every response was some kind of reference to movies. when you're looking at who you're targeting in south

carolina, especially older voters and evangelical. >> and it minimizes the issue. >> plus you have to robocalls, you have lying about ben carson and everybody. >> they were lying about ben carson. and donald trump, how can ted cruz be an evangelical christian when he lies so much and it's so dishonest. that's not a bad line of attack when the hero of the evangelical is lied about in realtime. i remember looking at my twitter feed and saying why are you guys lying about ben carson? they denied it. yet they kept doing it, they sent it memos. sorry, at least where i'm from, the churches i went to, the south, that doesn't play. >> i thought the beginning of that debate saturday night when ben carson just calmly and coolly called -- basically

called ted cruz a liar and coop demmed what he did, i thought that was devastating, then the rubio thing happened and overshadowed it. but that interplay between carson and cruz -- >> speaking of -- andrea mitchell, thank you very much. steve, if you could stay with us. coming up, south carolina should be a perfect fit for ben carson with a majority of evangelical voters. we'll ask him how he plans to bounce back after a rough showing in new hampshire. he's next on "morning joe." e ani are now participating in your mutual fund. we invested in your fund to help us pay for a college education for our son. we've enclosed a picture of our son so that you can get a sense there are real people out here trusting you with their hard-earned money. ♪ at fidelity, we don't just manage money, we manage people's money. ♪

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perfect. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. liberty mutual insurance. it's 42 past the hour. joining us from greenville, south carolina, republican presidential candidate dr. ben carson. thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> my pleasure. >> dr. carson, we were talking about ted cruz and what happened in iowa. obviously that came at a very pivotal time for you. we've had reporting a lot of your supporters aren't ready to forgive and forget ted cruz for spreading the lie that you were dropping out of the race. how do you feel in south carolina? do you think it's a question of character that voters should look at? >> well, of course it's a question of character. character is also indicated by the kind of people that you protect and that you surround

yourself with. and the situation in iowa, i'm willing to forgive ted cruz. he said that he didn't know that that was going on. but i hope people understand that, you know, we had hundreds of volunteers, college students, and when they heard this news, they were just devastated and they were out there, they were supposed to be helping people make up their minds and they're sitting there kind of numb. that is just despicable. >> what is your strategy moving forward in south carolina? perhaps even to make that message very clear to voters who take values very seriously there? >> well, south carolina is the kind of place where i love to come. i've -- i understand the people here. i think they understand me and i believe we're going to do extraordinarily well here. it's a matter of really getting out in front of enough audiences so that they get a chance to see me and hear me as opposed to the

way they have been characterized by many in the media. >> all right, steve kornacki? >> dr. carson, though, if you don't prevail or don't do well in south carolina, you didn't do that well in new hampshire, you were a bit off the lead in iowa, if you're not able to get a breakthrough in south carolina, is that a moment you might reassess the future of your campaign? >> i reassess the future of the campaign everyday. so obviously continue to do that. i had no expectation of doing well in new hampshire and, you know, a lot of people who spent millions of dollars there and many, many weeks there didn't do that well, either. i was able to foresee that and you have to pick your battles. >> so let me ask you, adds you go across south carolina, will you be asking or demanding that ted cruz fire people on his staff that spread lies to try to hurt your candidacy and spread lies to help to gain votes in iowa?

>> i've already state mid-opinion on that, he can do with it whatever he want december pending on how he sees the situation. but the more important thing is what will the voters say. they've had an opportunity to assess the situation. they know what kind of people do things. historically in politics in this country, we have extremely ambitious people will do virtually anything to achieve an office. i'm not one of those people, quite frankly. i do believe there's such thing as right and wrong. i will present people with a choice. >> how devastating was it, those lies spread about you dropping out of the race right as iowa voters were going into the caucuses? >> well, they were devastating. our internal polling and some external polling showed us doing significantly better than we did. but it's water under the bridge. it's not that many delegates. it's a long race.

it's a nine-inning game, we don't call it after the second inning. we're going to do just fine and i think south carolina will be the turning point. >> what is the most important issue for you in south carolina to drive home to the voters? >> there are several very important points but one of the things i think people are extraordinarily concerned about is the lack of honesty and integrity in our government. nobody trusts the government anymore and the government does such things as destroys the future for our children and grandchildren and they say, you know, those are just numbers, the federal debt. and they don't tell people what the truth is. and people don't understand that our financial foundation is crumbling and when somebody comes along and says "free college for everyone." everybody says, "oh, wow, this is great." they have no idea we're just marching off the cliff. >> oh, my gosh, dr. ben carson, thank you very much for being on the show. >> thank you, dr. carson.

we'll see you in south carolina, best of luck to you. joining us now on set, the president and ceo of the national urban league, marc morial. yesterday, the congressional black caucus endorsed hillary clinton and we want to get your reaction to what congressman john lewis said, specifically about bernie sanders and his work or lack thereof on civil rights. take a listen. >> i never saw him. i never met him. i was chair of the student non-violent coordinating committee for three years from 1963 to 1966. i was involved in the sit-ins, the freedom ride, the march on washington, the march from selma to montgomery and directed the voter education project for six years. but i met hillary clinton. i met president clinton. >> all right. >> john lewis is an american icon and here is the point. i think it's risky when someone

reaches back 50 years. in my life, i've heard literally hundreds of people say "i marched with dr. king." and maybe they were there. i think what john lewis is doing is making a distinction between participation and perhaps leadership. >> right. >> and i think that what is important is that there's kpe fission for the african-american vote. there that's a good thing. >> it's not disqualifying if bernie sanders wasn't at those events. >> no, but it's probably more important i think when you think about bernie sanders or hillary clinton to really examine where they've been and what they've provided by leadership on in their public careers. bernie sanders has been an elected official for some 30 years. hillary clinton spent six to eight years in the senate and then as secretary of state. so i think that's really what ought to be carefully examined.

>> when you do that, what decision to you come to as their commitment? >> i've been a leader a long time, i first met bernie sanders last summer at our conference. prior to that i had one telephone conversation with him about four or five years ago. i think the idea is that many people are just getting to know bernie sanders. >> what do you think about him? >> i think he's a sincere person, i think he's a credible individual and i think he's sincere. but the real question, the real question is who would make the best person to carry the banner the fall for the democratic party? who would make the strongest candidate? and who would make the best president? >> if you're the urban league, isn't the question who would help black voters the most? whose policies would actually -- >> whose record is consistent? >> break away the ongoing vicious cycle we have where the rich get poorer, the poorer -- i mean the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, the

middle-class seems to -- >> criminal justice system. >> isn't that what's critical? because it's black americans who share the disproportionate burden of those numbers. >> criminal justice system, education, education, jobs. >> yes. >> i would frame it this way, who offers to african-americans an opportunity to be a significant part of their governing coalition once they become president? that's the issue. so to champion -- >> is that more of the issue than jobs? getting black teenagers back to work? black americans back to work instead of who is going to give me a job in the administration. >> you don't understand what i'm saying, being a part of a governing coalition means you will have a seat at the table to be a participant as policies are shaped. >> we know what bernie's policies are, do you know what hillary's policies are as they come to income disparate. >> she's got a long record. you can't take away the record that hillary clinton has on

these issues. what we're going to be doing next tuesday is we will be meeting with hillary clinton. >> what are some of those policies? >> the policies are a long standing support for voting rights, participation in and support in the senate for urban america and cities. >> right. >> involvement in issues related to educational equity. she's got a record. i know bernie has a voting record but there is a distinction between having a voting record and whether you've provided leadership on these issues and we're going to probe this. >> what about economic issues? whose economic issues seem to help the truly disadvantaged? >> i have not heard a significant substantial plan from any candidate running about who is going to address the loss of wealth in the african-american community as of yet. but look, we're early in a campaign and i'm looking forward to hearing more and that's why we're going to meet with hillary clinton and we've offered to every candidate, the republican

candidates, an opportunity to participate in the discussion. >> ben jealous said recently that actually bernie sanders has some consistency and his over arching message applies to the problems that are plaguing this country which go directly to the problems that are plaguing african-americans where unemployment is higher across the board. >> part of bernie sanders' message does have appeal but presidential race -- >> you seem to be having a hard time. >> it seems like you're kind of already on hillary's side. >> you have a hard time saying it because bernie sanders has a track record. >> i view things in this context, it's not just a message, it's also the messenger. anyone can paucity a message in a presidential campaign. >> he has done it his entire life. >> for 30 years. >> it's not just about a message, joe, it's whether you have provided leadership. >> okay. >> have you sponsored legislation, have you passed legislation? so this is really important. so this is the test for bernie sanders. >> can i get you a hillary

button? >> no. >> because you're wearing one. >> because you're wearing it. it's okay. you should just wear it. >> be honest and say -- there's nothing wrong with supporting hillary clinton. >> i'm not going to wear it and i don't intend to bear a button for any candidate in this race at all, but i think it's important for me as we go into this discussion -- so bernie has asked us for the very same conversation and we're going to schedule it. so it's going to be the first opportunity to sit in a room around the table and talk about jobs, what is your plan, talk about education, what is your plan, talk about poverty, talk about criminal justice. >> but you are not going to endorse anybody. i think you just said you are not going to endorse anybody. >> i have no intentions to endorse but we want to engage with everyone. >> marc morial, thank you very much. up ahead some signs in syria. we will talk about the sees fire agreed to by world powers. a major accomplishment, a big story we will have that coming up. dear, if we had directv, we could put tvs anywhere

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up next, days after being humbled in new hampshire, hillary clinton comes back swinging during last night's debate in milwaukee. we've got the most heated moments ahead. plus, donald trump swears no more swearing on the campaign trail. the reason the republican front runner may now be cleaning up his act. >> but ted cruz is swearing in his campaign ads. >> it's awful and porn stars everywhere. what's going on?

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that's a promise that cannot be kept. >> that is absolutely inaccurate. i don't know what economist secretary clinton is talking to. >> i believe i can get the money that i need by taxing the wealthy. once i'm in the white house we will have enough political capital to be able to do that. >> secretary clinton, you are not in the white house yet. >> well, i know journalists have asked who you do listen to on foreign policy and we have yet to know who that is. >> well, it ain't henry kissinger, that's for sure. >> that's fine. >> the democrats bringing their a games again. good morning, everyone, it's friday, february 12th. welcome to "morning joe." what a week. kind of a long one. not complaining. it was fun. with us on set former communications director for president george w. bush, nicolle wallace, former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner, also with us from washington pulitzer prize winning columnist and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson and in milwaukee, wisconsin, managing editor of bloomberg politics,

mark halperin. >> a couple side notes to get to before we get to the debate. >> okay. >> not sure they are equally as important. trump signed a baby. did you see this? actually signed the baby. there's the baby with the spiky hair. >> what does that mean? sign the baby? >> when you look at this -- when you look at this -- >> donald trump baby. >> look at the hair on the baby. >> harken back to a moment -- >> trump baby. >> you have to get that tattooed. that's what you do. >> absolutely, ma'am. i will sign your baby. you are not going to want to wash that forehead. >> ricky bobby. >> there you go. so he had a massive crowd in baton rouge last night. also steve rattner, we will talk about this a lot more, but the markets, what's going on? turmoil. >> sure. the markets are in turmoil because economies are in turmoil. you have china decelerating very rapidly, you have relatively slow growth going on in the u.s.

and some pretty disappointing numbers coming out of brazil, russia is a mess and europe still mired in the mock basically and it's all rippled through, it's rippled through the stock markets. you also have an energy war going on between saudi arabia and hour producers, significant worries about the banks in europe. i don't think this is 2008, but we are in the midst of very tumultuous times. >> the word recession is being used a lot. >> the word recession is being used. economists are notably bad at predicting recessions. the imf failed to predict the last 220 recessions in various countries. so you don't know until it's going on, but, you know, it just feels like things are starting to a little bit come off the rails. >> certainly could play into the conversation as we look at the presidential races on both sides of the aisle. just two days after the new

hampshire primary bernie sanders and hillary clinton squared off again last night in milwaukee. clinton began by portraying sanders' proposal as unrealistic saying that economists estimates that they would cause government to grow by 40% and the debate got more contentious as the night went on, especially when clinton went on the attack over sanders' criticism of president obama. >> today senator sanders said that president obama failed the presidential leadership test and this is not the first time that he has criticized president obama. in the past he has called him weak, he has called him a disappointment. the kind of criticism that we've heard from senator sanders about our president i expect from republicans, i do not expect from someone running for the democratic nomination to succeed president obama. >> that is -- [ applause ] >> madam secretary, that is a low blow. i have worked with president obama for the last seven years.

i have been a strong ally on him -- with him on virtually every issue. do senators have the right to disagree with the president? have you ever disagreed with a president? i suspect you may have. >> senator, what i'm -- what i am concerned about is not disagreement on issues, saying that this is what i'd rather do, i don't agree with the president on that. calling the president weak, calling him a disappointment, those kinds of personal assessments and charges are ones that i find particularly troubling. >> one of us ran against barack obama. i was not that candidate. >> sanders is good with those one liners that puts it all the way after she has a long list. sanders, again, went after hillary clinton for taking millions in contributions from wall street. >> secretary clinton's super pac as i understand it received $25 million last reporting period,

$15 million from wall street. our average contribution is $27. i'm very proud of that. >> i would just say i debated then senator obama numerous times on stages like this and he was the recipient of the largest number of wall street donations of anybody running on the democratic side ever. now, when it mattered he stood up and took on wall street. so let's not in any way imply here that either president obama or myself would in any way not take on any vested interest, whether it's wall street or drug companies or insurance companies or frankly the gun lobby to stand up to do what's best for the american people. >> let's not insult the intelligence of the american people. people aren't dumb. why in god's name does wall

street make huge campaign contributions? i guess just for the fun of it. they want to throw money around. >> all right. why don't we open it up there because she had some pretty strong moments last night, i think both candidates were great, they really -- one did not count out the other. maybe the bigger story in both these debates is that bernie sanders i think was deeply underestimated as someone who would just be knocked out. front page of the "wall street journal" clinton's wall street talks were highly paid, friendly. kind of a window into what these speeches were like when she went to go speak to the big banks and companies on wall street. in a discussion with goldman sachs executives some of its asset management clients in october of 2013, the "wall street journal" is reporting that she spoke simple thet clee about the financial industry according to an attendee. asked about the poisoned national mood towards wall street mrs. clinton didn't single out bankers or any other group for causing the 2008

financial crisis. instead she effectively said we are all in this together we have to find our way out of it together and that it was warm, sometimes often bore erred on gushy. i think she is speeches could, steve rattner, pose a problem. i'm hearing that some of them transcripts will make their way out to the public eye. is she potentially maybe going to get in front of this? would it be smart to release them? >> i think they are potentially a problem, they are already a problem, i don't think anybody can really deny that. i don't know that there's anything that shocking in that story in the sense that i think you mentioned you were going down to see an oil company or did go down and see an oil company, you weren't going to go down and talk about global warming and the need for -- >> do you know what's funny is i didn't say anything about their industry. what's interesting about her talks is i accept her explanation that she goes to talk about current events and that she goes -- she was the secretary of state, she goes to talk about america's role in the world. that's what we all do when we speak to companies. >> she thanked the audience for

what they've done for the country. >> listen, i'm a republican -- >> she had just come off of being a secretary of state. like i -- you know, mika and joe, i have seen their speeches, you talk about what their expertise is, hers was the world. >> i think it's true from politicians, former leaders of parties, if you go to a group you're going to say something moderately encouraging -- >> hour he acting -- >> impacting -- >> you're kind of like. >> i hear gene. >> flicking it off. >> i'm flick tg off -- say one thing and gene can jump down my throat. i'm saying one simple thing, a, i believe and you can disagree that wall street and the financial industry plays a very important part in our country and our world, that 99.9% of the people who work on wall street are doing good things and honorable things and that for her to go down there to their -- to their enclave of whatever sort it was and say i respect

the work you do or something to that effect, i don't think there's anything wrong with that and i don't think there's anything surprising about that. >> except in this sort of kabuki theater that is this election cycle. >> it's come back to backfire on her. i get that. >> i think there's nothing wrong with, you know, i respect you, thank you for having me here, all the nice things that you say. there is a difference between gracious and gushy, however, and i think that's going to be the question when people get to see and hear the speeches because, you know, if you have a strong position on, say, global warming and you go for some reason you are invited by an oil company to speak or something like that, i mean, you have a decision to make, right? and you either -- you're either going to take the money and be honest or you're going to decide you can't take the money and you don't want to speak to that group because you're going to offend them and it's going to be awkward and it's just not going

to work. so there are decisions to make and, you know, there is a stance that you take and so -- >> you've got to be polite. >> we'll see from the transcripts. >> the article says in some cases she thanked the audience for what they had done for the country. i guess you can't walk in there when you're getting paid $225,000 for an hour of work and say thank you for destroying the economy. that would probably be rude. maybe that's a problem, too. >> mark halperin in the debate last night on this wall street issue hillary clinton has made very clear and she did it in the last dilate, i thought more strongly last night was basically to say bernie sanders is a one note candidate and that is that everything comes back to the greed of wall street. when he's asked about race relations he begins by talking to wall street and what it did to african-americans and she's saying you're living in a fantasy world. you have this laundry list of liberal causes that you want to put out there and she said, look, i'm progressive, too, but you're not going to get any of this stuff done in congress. >> i think she was every bit as strong, maybe even a little

stronger than he was last night and the most important thing was the critique you just said, his ideas are unrealistic i believe is what she actually thinks and i think part of her problem in the run up to iowa and new hampshire was almost every day she was saying something new about bernie sanders, testing out different frames to put on him to try to stop his momentum. i think this one may or may not succeed but it has the advantage what she believes about him and i think she projected that consistently last night. >> it will be interesting because i think that's a great attack line, one note candidate, the only problem is that his message addresses a multi-facetted problem that is plaguing this country from college debt, student loans to the -- what's plaguing the middle class to too big to fail, to criminal justice reform which bleeds into race relations. it's not really one note, but it's a good attack. >> no, it's not one note but there's obviously a huge gap on the foreign policy side, i think he did a bit better last night than he has on foreign policies.

there aren't a lot of people who can get up to hillary clinton on foreign policy and hold their own. secondly what she was trying to do one note or not is he has proposals on a lot of the issues you said but a lot of them don't make a lot of sense either financially or otherwise. to go to a single pair healthcare system is not practical economically or administratively. i think experts have been pushing back on this idea of free college for all. why should willie's kids have free college when he's -- >> whoa. >> when he's perfectly capable of paying for t maybe that money should be used for some other problem. his ideas have some holes in them. >> willie. >> let's flip to the republican side. yesterday we showed you some south carolina voters in mark halperin's focus group who were concerned with some of the language that donald trump has used on the campaign trail. some of trump's opponents are sensing an opening with that line of criticism. >> even in our political culture i teach my kids to be respectful, there are certain words you don't say no matter what setting you are in, act with dignity and hold yourself up and then you turn on the tv,

you have a leading presidential candidate saying profanity from a stage. profanity from a stage. i mean, all these things undermine what we teach our children. >> i think the voters are assessing who is prepared to be commander in chief and i will say i'm not sure a lot of voters are excited about having a president who when he gets rattled, when he gets upset begins cursing and yelling vulgarities. >> well, that criticism of trump's language apparently has had some effect. last night trump brought in 11,000 people. >> is that down from 18,000. >> in baton rouge, louisiana with another 4,000 people trying to enter outside. trump resisted the urge of some in the audience to swear. >> political hacks. we have hacks. i know some of them. they're political hacks. they get their job -- i won't use foul language. i'm just not going to do it. i'm not going to do it.

they're all saying do it. do it. no. i'm not. that's right better, right, instead -- right? i woman here is on my side. you're right. she's saying don't do it. right? don't do it. because they always -- even if it's not a bad word, if it's a little bit off they kill me so i won't do it. i will never do it again, actually. >> mark, we all saw the reaction of that focus group in south carolina yesterday that we played this time on this show yesterday. do you think donald trump got that message? >> well, look, letting trump be trump is the slogan of the campaign and he's used language like that, people maybe in south carolina are not going to like it as much, in other parts of the country it's been a big part of his identity as a guy who speaks his mind who is not politically correct, but i think he does understand from the way he has conducted himself from iowa to new hampshire then from new hampshire down here, he has become a pretty good politician and a guy who can understand not every state is exactly the same. so i think he's going to change the way he conducts himself in some ways, but he doesn't want

to lose his essential trumpness and i think -- i think that balance you saw last night in louisiana, you will see it in south carolina where, you know, based on the last 24 hours he is not going to have as easy a time in south carolina, not just because of this issue, but you are going to see cruz and others come at him hard. >> still ahead on "morning joe," his date line is the front lines, nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel joins us to talk about the ceasefire in syria. plus mark halperin walks us through his focus groups and will marco rubio's debate continue to haunt him. if they could ever catch you.

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all right. mark, let's get more of your focus group. these focus groups are saw some

and you are really good at them. he really kind of makes people feel comfortable to talk and brings them out. so what did south carolina -- >> he is the dr. fill. >> he is the dr. fill of focus groups. he is. he is sort of like that friendly aim i can't believe of aable doctor that listens to everything you want to say and wants to understand. so what did they say about marco rubio? what did you get? >> marco rubio. >> polarizing. >> dedicated. >> spiritual. >> articulate. >> well spoken and he has the it factor. kind of like bill clinton had it, he's got the presence. >> i don't care for him. >> typical politician. >> youthful. >> does marco rubio seem ready to you to be president right now? >> i think he's probably as ready as anybody to be president. i like the fact that he is a younger candidate. i'm not necessarily thinking just because someone is older they're going to have more experience or are better equipped to lead our country. >> he showed his colors in the last debate when he started fumbling for what he wanted to

say. >> he was rehearsed. the stuff that he was saying was rehearsed. over and over the same thing over and over. then once you wanted to get more detail he started stuttering. he wasn't sure on his feet and i was strong on him before that. i think it hurt him and made me look at him in a different way. >> he made a snafu in that debate but he owned it, he fessed up to it, said it was my fault. that tells me that he's going to be honest. >> coming out of iowa and then new hampshire people think he seems like he's got a good chance to win now. >> i think he is the top three. >> i agree. yeah. >> i just can't figure the man out. i just don't trust him. >> i think with his -- his age there is a lack of some inexperience, but i do believe that he will surround himself with good people to advise him and i think his youth will be a

plus for him. so, mika, contrary to what some people said after new hampshire when rubio finished fifth that he was dead, this group undecided republicans in south carolina who, again, were dominating their thoughts by trump and cruz, they probably had a more favorable view of him and his prospects coming out of new hampshire than they did of either bush or kasich. i think the rubio folks can see a lot there, although, again, not somebody they see as challenging for first or second, but third would be great for marco rubio from his perspective. on bush, there are some with a little bit of optimism for the bush folks when i showed them a clip of him talking about national security, they liked it, but, boy, did they suffer from the same thing that bush has suffered from in iowa and new hampshire which is bush fatigue. >> his brother has been featured now in some advertisements here in this state and plans to come campaign for him. sandy, do you think that will help jeb bush's chances if his brother comes to campaign for him here? >> i think it could go either way. i think it could hurt him or it

could help him. >> i think it could help him also. he was very popular in south carolina. >> do you think bush 43 coming here, george w. coming here it's good for jeb? >> me personally it wouldn't change my opinion. i'm thinking we have had enough bushes inside the white house and we need to move on. i don't want another bush. >> i think he's so far behind that i don't foresee his brother, his dad, the pope coming to help him, you know. >> you know, he's been one of the better funded candidates in this race and he has not caught on, didn't do as well in iowa or new hampshire as he had hoped. do people agree with denise that that's the reason that the country feels there has been enough bushes. >> i think that's a negative, that the machine is behind him, that the rnc is cramming him down our throat. >> i liked the first bush, i didn't like the second bush and i was hoping that this bush was -- might be the right one, two out of three ain't bad. >> mika, on john kasich i showed them his message of unit, bringing the country together.

everyone in the room loved it but they also said they didn't know much about him and didn't think he had a chance in south carolina so they weren't that inclined to think about him. >> they were like sakasich? they were positive about him. nicolle, what's your take away? i felt like the marco rubio response was a little bit polarizing. >> rubio is a polarizing figure in the republican party, half the party feels the way chris christie articulated that the reason he repeats himself over and over again that that's not the original sin, the original sin is a knowledge base that's this deep. the other half of the party and a lot of the grass roots and he's got a lot of support in south carolina because of the way he speaks openly about his faith, i think he is the face and future of the republican. so people love him or they are not drawn to him at all. >> remember on the george w. bush question, too, in south carolina, yes, but the republican party at large and you know this he's very popular, the way that bill clinton is popular in their democratic party polarizing to other people. i think george w. bush is

nothing but a plus for him in south carolina. >> and i think jeb bush has -- i think that this message of being weak, the branding that trump did shows up more than their actual sentiments about jeb bush. jeb bush is popular in south carolina, they all know president push 43 and i think he's very much alive. you see it on his face on the campaign trail. this is a place he is comfortable, he feels after new hampshire like he is in the fight. coming up on "morning joe" he has been so some of the most dangerous places in the world to cover the news including benghazi lib gentleman. >> reporter: another rebel showed me he isn't armed at all. it's a toy gun. i didn't realize until he put it in my hands it's made of plastic, it's a toy. three explosions, 50 yards away. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel joins us next with his new book

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new this morning the u.s. russia and other world powers have reached and agreement for a ceasefire in syria. the deal calls for a cessation of hostilities between forces fighting against the assad regime and those fighting in support of the government and calls for a swift expansion of humanitarian age to besieged area of syria. the ceasefire is expected to

commence in one week after confirmation by the syrian government and the opposition. >> let's bring in right now abc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel and then all hell broke loose two decades in the middle east. therefore we get to the booklets talk about the deal that's been brokered. what's your take? >> i'm skeptical. >> why? >> because these kind of deals haven't worked in the past. there was an attempt to reerch some sort of political agreement just a couple weeks ago and it broke down horribly. it's one of these deals where everyone has an interest in making it work, it should work. the u.s. is talking to iran, the russians want this kind of thing to work, turkey which faces already has so many refugees and faces the possibility of tens of thousands maybe even hundreds of thousands more coming unless there is some sort of ceasefire. everyone has a vested interest in making it work, but unfortunately there's so much tension, there's so much hostility that it probably won't. it's a little bit like an

environmental deal. everyone has an interest in making it work, but nobody wants to breathe polluted air, it's going to kill us all, you would think everyone should be able to get together and make it work but unfortunately oftentimes it doesn't. >> but the difference between this as an environmental deal, an environmental deal everybody has to gift up something in effect, give up some of their pollution, their cars, whatever. this should be a win/win. nobody has to give up anything, people get to not be killed and get fed and could clothed. >> the assad government has to give something up. the assad government with russia's help is making progress at the moment because it's been advancing toward the city of aleppo which has been one of its main goals. you have a southeast fire that means the rebels get to rearm themselves, regroup, you slow down the assad offensive. from their perspective the assad government gives something up. >> let's talk about the book. you got over in 1997 just in time for it to hit the fan --

>> '96. >> '96 and '97 you were there when the first real attack against foreigners took place in egypt outside of the cairo museum. >> i was. it was -- i moved out to the middle east 20 years ago and i was there sort of trying to figure out how to be a foreign correspondent. >> right. >> and then almost immediately, '97, there was this first inn discriminate terror attack in front of the cairo museum and i thought this was something i wasn't expecting, this was deliberately killing civilians, brutalizing them and then it was followed up a couple months later with another attack in luxor, there was a bunch of tourists who were butchered in front of a temple. and it started an interest where is this anger coming from and then it obviously man fesd on a global scale in 9/11. >> what's so interesting, richard, is you talk about luchlt uxor and both zawahiri

and osama bin laden were sure that they would rise up in their cause instead they were repulsed. this is aity bit of a cycle where we know how the isis story ends, the isis story ends with -- with muslims striking out back against isis, but why can't they see -- you've been there for 20 years, you know this is how this story ends. why don't they? >> i think they do and there have been groups like isis, like the -- what happened after the luxor attack in egypt that are burst fort worth in the islamic world and have eventually been consumed and repressed by the same body politic, the community, from which they were born and that's going to happen eventually with isis. >> the people, though, were repulsed by that. >> yes. >> bin laden, zawahiri not just the strong men but the people themselves were repulsed by these attacks. >> most people in the middle east are disgusted by isis. it does not have a broad base of

support. this is a repugnant organization, it's living in the cracks in the political system. this book, the reason it's called and then all hell broke loose, it's because in the middle east all hell has broken loose over the last 20 years. there was a status quo when i arrived under knew bar rick in u jipt 20 years ago, there was a series of straw men and this is the premise, the framework of the book and that these strong men held the system together, it was corrupt, a system with a lot of nepotism in it, but it contained the anger and repress sieve nature and old conflicts inside. through eight years of military action under the bush administration and then almost eight years of kind of inconsistent action under this last administration all those ant seed nent conflicts, these primordial conflicts we didn't create, sunni shia conflicts,

turkish kurd, arab persian have burst out and they are represented by isis. the ooze that was contained has spilled out into the world and i think just projecting along that model what comes next, if i wrote this book ten years from now it will be the return of the strong men and i think that's probably what's coming. >> do you think that's ten years or what's -- >> i think it's already starting. >> starting -- >> starting with a sisi, started with egypt. people hate isis and living in a situation like syria. >> two years or three years from now what does this picture look like with isis? >> i think isis doesn't go away quietly and isis has territory. what we will see is the strong men or strong leaders trying to reassert themselves, some of them aren't going to make it, some of them will get assassinated, some will become horrible dictators, but there's going to be an attempt over the next few years to put this genie back into a bottle and i think a

lot of governments around the world will embrace that. >> yeah. >> i think we have to be careful about saying, oh, well, just put back the fascists and everything will be okay because, you know, nobody -- we have a history of looking out of chaos comes fascist leaders and they don't always do great things. >> and the new book is "and then all hell broke loose" two decades in the middle east. richard engel thank you and thank you for all your incredible reporting. still ahead it's a topic that came up last night during the debates and will keep coming up in the democratic race. do the big banks need to be broken up? we will crunch the numbers ahead on "morning joe." the future belongs to the fast. and to help you accelerate, we've created a new company... one totally focused on what's next for your business. the true partnership where people,technology and ideas

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bell with cnbc's sara eisen. >> how bleak is it today? >> i've got good news for a change, guys. >> good. >> we just got a number out on the economy. retail sales came in better than expected. this is what we need. american consumers to spend their money. they're getting higher wages, jobs are being created, home prices are up and this is a good sign. we actually saw more spending in the month of january. it also showed that they ignored the blizzard that hit many parts of the northeast during the month. will it help stocks rebound today? perhaps. we're looking at a five-day losing streak over the past five days, it's been a tough session, tough week for wall street, the dow is down more than 3% so far for the week leading many to question numbers like this and the market action. they don't quite match up. the economy and the markets are telling very different stories. and the reason a lot of analysts say is because the u.s. economy is much stronger than the rest of the world and investors are trading right now on what is happening globally.

one example and the pain is much worse than i should tell you, is japan. overnight the japanese stock market fell 5%. it just finished it's worst week since back in 2008 during the financial crisis. so there is extreme selling around the world. will we rebound in the u.s.? could be a question. good data. also the head of america's biggest bank jamie dimon came out last week and say he was buying his own stock because it's so cheap. financials have been the hardest hit so far in this big selloff. >> sara, thank you very much for that set up. joining us now former u.k. cabinet minister and chief economic adviser to the british treasury, now a senior fellow at harvard's kennedy school. ed ball is back. >> you had an op-ed in the "wall street journal" talking about the need for europe to stay connected with eu and the currency. why? >> we have a referendum by our prime minister has promised, we

could see britain leaving the european union in the next few months. i think that would be a really bad decision for priten. we would lose influence, it would impact the economy. part of the lack of confidence in the world economy in the moment in britain is because of this big uncertainty about what's going to happen. >> why attach yourself to greece? >> we are not in the single krens knee in the euro and i strongly said ten years ago we shouldn't join because it would damage our economy and we would lose influence, but it's one thing not to be in the currency, it's another thing to move away from the whole economic area entirely. companies from america, japan, around the world come to britain because they want to trade with that huge economic market and if we walk away -- but the problem s you know, the european question is very unpopular in britain, people have been worried by the scale of migration which has happened in our economy in the last ten years and the thing i'm seeing in the "wall street journal" today is we need some changes

and that's going to include a better way of controlling migration but we should stay in and not leave. >> i need your help here because steve rattner along with hillary clinton is going to be supporting the big banks and i need you on my side here. >> you're so bad. >> this is an odd set of alliances here. >> steve rattner is taking a closer look at the arguments to break up the big banks. all right. steve, take it away. >> well, we're taking a closer look because not just bernie sanders but some very respected republican political poundity experts. >> joe scarborough. >> has said we should break up the banks. can we talk about what's going on out there. >> i would love to do that. >> okay. great. >> he's been waiting all week. >> by the way, i'm with steve. >> really? >> okay. so you guys -- >> okay. so someone said -- someone said on this show last week that five banks control our entire banking industry. >> no, i didn't say that. >> okay. well, someone said it. so let's take a look at what the banks actually control.

our banks control about half of our banking industry, the top five banks which puts you near the bottom among the major developed countries. in japan the banks control -- five banks control 97%, canada 83%, we will skip down to the u.k., 64%. our banking industry is less concentrated. >> how does that compare to before the collapse? >> we will get to that. >> oh. >> we would like to go down. we would like less concentration, be more like america. >> steve wants more concentration. >> no, i'm happy where we are. >> my point was last week was that too big to fail has gotten even bigger since the crash. >> so you walked right into that. let's go to the next chart. >> be careful about what you said i walked right into because you may be walking into something. >> i'm going to be walking off a plank. >> go ahead. >> so if you look at the banks by size what you will see is that since the passage of dodd-frank the biggest banks have actually gotten smaller.

they're down 2.7% in terms of their total assets while all the smaller banks have gotten bigger. the reason for this is because dodd-frank imposed all kinds of special regulatory requirements and other capital needs on the banks that have made it tough for the big banks to make money. >> that's horrible. tough for the big -- i feel -- along with hillary i know you feel bad for the billing banks but i have a couple charts myself, steve. >> you do? >> i do. why don't we start with the first chart that talks about how the u.s. banking industry -- >> i have been blind-sided. >> yes, you have. -- have actually gone up from 33% controlling the assets to 41% -- >> let me -- >> i let you talk through your charts, let me talk through my charts. the only one that is less concentrated is citi group. jpmorgan a lot richer than they were before the crash, bank of america doing better, wells fargo it's been a really good

crash for wells fargo. let's see how this compares -- >> >> do you want to know why this happened? >> i do, but let me get to my next chart. >> you can't go to your next chart until i say say something. this is not fair. >> assets for jpmorgan, bank of america, wells fargo and citi group the big four as a share of gdp has actually increased by almost 50%, the rich have gotten richer and it's put us in a position, this is the point i was making, that if one of these four banks collapse all of these years after too big to fail we -- u.s. taxpayers are once again the suckers. >> i need to be able to say something. >> steve -- >> point one, the reason those banks got bigger was because they took over failing banks and took them out of the taxpayers hands. >> they got a huge bail out from the taxpayers and --

>> wells fargo took over wachovia, jpmorgan took over bear stearns. let's go to my last chart -- >> i may have two more charts. >> i want my last chart. >> i will go five charts. >> this didn't work out the way you thought it was going to work out but go ahead. >> you completely blind-sided me. >> by facts. >> no, but your facts -- >> my facts are correct. >> lies. >> okay. what did i say that's not true? >> let me finish what i have to say. >> look at this chart of capital that the banks have. big banks -- >> this is a fun way to end the week. >> they are much safer now. >> you can see how low their ratio got and post dodd-frank -- >> but which were the banks in the crisis which caused a huge problems? lehman brothers was not a big bank. >> they were not banks. >> in britain northern rock

would say small, p big banks like jpmorgan or hsbc were rather safe ones. you can have bad regulation and bad banking at big and small banks. it's not size it's whether they do it good or badly. >> the big banks that got bailed out and my point last week was this, and i have proven it with my charts. >> yes, you have. you worked so hard on these. >> that these too big to fail banks have gotten even bigger. >> that is true. >> here is my biggest problem, i've been saying this for five years, if one of these banks collapsed, if bank of america were to collapse together, if jpmorgan were to collapse tomorrow, if wells fargo were to collapse tomorrow we taxpayers would be on the line, we would have to bail them out again and they would make billions and billions of dollars from that bail out. look at how much money the biggest banks in america made after the federal government and taxpayers baled them out.

they made historic profits the next year. >> i wish i had brought my chart which i prepared that showed that since the financial crisis bank stocks have done materially source than the s&p. in fact, this year bank stocks -- >> i left my other chart in my other pair of pants. >> i have it right here. do you want to see it? >> yes, i do. i'm very interested. >> isn't the point, joe, that we want to have tough regulation which stops big banks failing but we also have to recognize that often the little ones were the really dangerous ones. >> no, i think the point -- first of all, the regulations were horrible. the fact is that banks were able to leverage 40 to 1, 50 to 1, that was horrible. steve did show a chart that we can both agree with. the fact is that the ratios now are much better, they are not as leveraged as they used to be but i'm a big believer if you concentrate this much power, this much money, 43% of gdp in

these five banks, if one of them collapses then we're all on the line. no, i believe in decentralization not in all government but also in the financial industry and it is rigged against smaulg community banks. >> in all seriousness the real problem we have right now and hillary clinton has said this but that's not why i'm saying it, is that because of all this regulation and because these big banks have gotten a little smaller the banking business moved out of the regulated sector and it's being done increasingly by hedge funds, shadow banks, she keeps talk being it and that's actually really scary. you have a bunch of people who aren't being regulated. >> and the federal reserve does not currently have the powers to get into that nonbanking area and that's a big gap in the u.s. system at the moment. >> all right. >> the fact is we broke up the bells in this country many decades ago and when we did americans got more choices -- >> after that they all merged back together. >> we have cell phones, we have the ability to shop around. i think -- >> joe, wait a minute.

you have -- >> this concludes the battle of the "morning joe." ed balz, i want to thank you so much. >> it's been an experience to be here. unexpectedly fabulous. >> can we do this every friday? >> no. no. we'll be right back.

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steve, it's time to talk about what we learned today. i learned you carry the big

bank's water very well along with hillary clinton. >> and i learned you actually know how to make charts. >> i was up all night doing that. we will do that next week. >> the chart war continues. >> it's been such a long week. >> there's a live mike somewhere. i hope they don't swear. >> that was quite a week. quite a week. >> it was a great week. a fun week. >> i learned that steve kornacki picks up our coverage with "msnbc live." >> can i ask you a question real quick? how great a steve kornacki. >> he is the greatest. he is great with those charts. he picks up our coverage after a great week. >> happy president's day weekend. please sleep. m not the in my business i can count on my i.t. guy

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a good morning, i'm steve kornacki. the democratic candidates put on quite a show in milwaukee last night. they went head to head for the first time since bernie sanders' big win in the new hampshire primary. that added some extra urgency to the debate last night. especially for hillary clinton who was hoping to recover big from that defeat on tuesday. >> so we have a special obligation, we should not make promises we can't keep. >> every proposal that i have introduced has been paid for. >> once i'm in the white house we will have enough political capital to be able