>> you can have the one note wonder, the flip-floppers, the hacks, give me the gutsy, the grown-ups, the honest, give me the ones with fire in their belize. ♪ [ applause ] well, you need to come on right in. good morning, everybody, it's friday, february 19. we're live from the market pavilion i hotel in chashls on

the -- charleston, south carolina. tomorrow voters go to the polls to pick their nominee for president. >> i feel sorry for the good people of south carolina. >> why? >> well, i've always found this to be one of the most spirited states in all the country. you would think that they would have a primary that reflected their fighting spirit. and yet -- >> i think they got that. >> and yet -- well, we have minor bit players getting involved in -- i mean, the pope. >> chirping in. >> you actually knew it the moment that the pope and trump in a twitter fight, we had just gone from strange to surreal. >> it's the fonz jumping the shark. >> who can be the pope is involved in the trump battle. >> we'll get to that. but things are equally as crazy going on. >> i don't think so. >> with us we have mike barnicle, pulitzer prize winning columnist in and associate editor of the "washington post" msnbc political analyst eugene

robinson, msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee michael steele is with us. washington anchor for bbc world news america katty kay and in columbia, south carolina, managing editor of bloomberg politics, mark halperin. a lot going on one day to go before the polls open and we have new numbers in the republican race for south carolina. the new nbc/"wall street journal"/marist poll gives trump a five-point lead, down from his 16-point advantage in the same poll a month ago. trump is at 28% to ted cruz's 23%. marco rubio a distance third at 15% followed by jeb bush who has gained four points since last month and john kasich and ben carson are tied at night. this despite trump maintaining a strong lead in all other public polls. the latest american research group tracking poll gives trump a 12-point edge, 34% to rubio's 22% with kasich still in third at 14%, barely ahead of cruz at

13%, bush at 9% and carson at 4%. the fox news poll tells a slightly different story with trump at 32%, cruz in second at 19%, rubio third at 15%, bush and carson tied at 9%, kasich 6%. so big news. >> let me go to you first, mark halperin, in columbia, south carolina. every poll we've seen, every poll we've talked about the past three or four days, even post-debate, shows donald trump comfortably ahead by 10, 11, 12, sometimes 15 points. the two nbc polls, though, are the two outliers that suggest that this is a much closer race in south carolina and nationally. who do you think has it right? the nbc poll or every other poll that's been taken? >> well, the look, the nbc poll is a great poll and the methodology is sound, i just don't know. this is a huge primary, iowa and new hampshire were small events. the two big stories here

tomorrow are how big donald trump wince, i don't think anybody thinks he won't win but if he wins big, as most polls indicate, he goes into the next contest with momentum and there will be questions about senator cruz's ability to beat trump anywhere besides iowa. the other big story down the line is the jeb bush/marco rubio story. people are writing jeb bush off. the nbc polls suggest, as some others, that he's in striking distance of marco rubio and if he comes back and is ahead of marco rubio, that's probably the most cataclysmic affect of what happens saturday, that rubio/bush contest. >> of course the fox news poll that came out yesterday, of course, was the 32-19. it's interesting, that shows a battle between rubio and trump 1-2 but there are other polls that show kasich that came out last night finishing a strong second and it seem what is we have heard across this sate is a

lot of what we heard up in new hampshire, wherever we go, kasich, kasich, kasich, heard it here yesterday. people heard it out on the trail yesterday. it's almost identical to what we were saying before kasich's surprising finish in new hampshire. >> he had an incredible moment on the campaign yesterday which we'll show later. the front-runner, though, is getting called out a little bit on some of his main points. he repeatedly said he opposed 202 the 2003 invasion of iraq. buzzfeed has unearthed an interview from the howard stern show where trump said he did support an invasion. here's part of the interview followed by trump's reaction. >> we don't know the enemy. >> they're skulking around somewhere and you feel like they're a sitting duck. >> but we have an idea who the enemy is and the politicians don't want to tell you that. >> are you for invading iraq? >> yeah, i guess so, i wish the first time it was done

correctly. >> do you remember saying that? >> no, but victim said that. i wasn't a politician, it was probably the first time anybody asked me that question. but by the time the war started -- that was before the war started. >> this was 2002. >> by the time the war started i was against the war and there were articles, headlines in 2003, 2004, that i was totally against the war and actually a couple people in your world in terms of the pundits said, you know, there's definite proof that 2003/2004 trump was against it. >> the cnn forum last night which was interesting. we'll talk about that later. is that a flip-flop? what do you call? >> well, it's donald trump. you have inconsistent statements all the way throughout. he'll say well, look at what i said right after the war began but gene that's different than what he said in the past. >> yeah, central tenet of trump's campaign, if there is such a thing, the central tenet

of trump's campaign, he's all over the map. he says he's opposed to the war, look it up. he looks it up. now, that's a fairly lukewarm endorsement of the war, frankly, "well, i guess so, i wish it was this." do i think it's going to hurt him substantially? i don't. >> seven minutes after the hour we haven't talked about the bomb that dropped yesterday. >> from the heavens. >> i'm kind of surprised we waited seven minutes. it came from the heavens literally. >> there are inconsistencies throughout this and i think it's fascinating that serious reporters have spent so much time trying to figure out what he said and when he said it as if that's going to make much of a difference. he said a couple statements after the war, now this howard stern thing in 2002. you're right, a lukewarm support of the war. is it going to matter to voters at the end of the day? no. >> it might matter to his

opponents. it might give them an attack line but to voters -- >> good luck. the pope, though. donald trump's latest war of words is with none other than the pope. >> this is what's happening. on a flight to rome after a six-day visit to mexico pope francis was asked about trump's plan to build a giant wall along the u.s./mexican border. the pontiff -- the pontiff -- said "a person who only thinks about building walls wherever they may be and not building bridges is not christian. i would only say that this man is not christian if he has said things like that." >> okay, i'm sorry, let's just stop there. that would be a stunning comment "that man is not a christian if he said things like that" for any pope. for any preacher, for my minister. but, gene robinson, for a pope

who we all adored and loved for saying -- asking the question who am i to judge? for him to turn around and then judge a man's very christianity because he supports borders with his country is unthinkable. >> well, you know, look, i'm not in the habit of slamming the holy father so i probably won't do that. >> well, we praised him for not being judgmental. should we not slam him for being judgmental. >> i will say it seems out of character. it certainly seems out of character what he has said all along and the whole attitude he has brought to the papacy which many people found totally refreshing which is who am i to judge? everyone is welcome, we want to be an embracing church. we want -- the whole idea of christianity is that kind of it doesn't matter what you did.

>> and if we're not going to judge people -- if the pope is not going to judge people for what they do under a variety of circumstances, even when it goes against church teachings, weren't you shocked yesterday when the pope just said "this man is not a christian if he supports a wall." >> or did you just smile quietly and say trump. >> first of all, when i first read the story, it popped up in my phone i thought it was the onion: >> exactly! exactly! >> pope versus trump. secondly, i choose to think that the pope spoke as a matter of faith not as a matter of politics. and i choose to think that he unartfully worded his statement in english. >> was he speaking in english, by the way? >> yes, i believe he was. i'm not sure. >> because if he wasn't i'd like

to see the -- >> second, there's no way -- donald trump can say anything he wants at this stage. we've seen this over and over and over again. but the injection of an element of faith in this -- >> an element? it's the freaking pope. >> i mean, it is the pope and katty, again, for the pope to say -- i've got to say, politically there's just no question how the people of south carolina and the south are going to respond to a pope saying if you support stopping illegal immigrants from coming into the united states, you're not a christian, that's going to cause a massive backlash and not for donald trump. john podoritz who is keeping me entertained with his twitter feed, he said something like "wait...no...please." this is bad for politicians that are not donald trump. >> and you'd v to look much

further on to states like pennsylvania and new york where there are, what a quarter voters are catholics to ohio where you've got a stronger catholic voting community but not here in the south. this is not going to hurt donald trump down here. i'm going to agree with mike. i think actually if you look at the context of what the pope was saying, the pope was saying -- and we have talked about it, this is a pope who embraces inclusivity. >> right. >> and i think what the pope was implying is that there's a lack of inclusivity in donald trump's message and this the wall is almost as much as anything a metaphorical -- >> it's just -- >> you're right. >> just politically, though, you've got to be careful with the same pope who was in cuba and there were people who had been tortured and jailed by castro, the castro regime who came up to try to hand him something in the popemobile and they were beaten and dragged away and he kept going and wouldn't even meet with these people so his inclusiveness

let's just say is self-selected by him. and this is a pope, check the transcripts, we have praised repeatedly. that was a -- >> oh, we love him. trump had a swift and blunt response to the man who leads 1.2 billion catholics worldwide. take a listen. >> i just wrote this out very quickly about the pope. he actually said that maybe i'm not a good christian or something, it's unbelievable. which is really not a nice thing to say. if and when the vatican is attacked by isis, you know, isis, they're -- very few people know this, their primary goal is to get to the vatican. that would be their ultimate trow fichphy trophy. i can promise you that the pope would have only wished and prayed that donald trump would have been president because this would not have happened. isis would have been eradicated unlike what is happening now where they're all talk, no action politicians. the pope was in mexico, the lead leadership, oh, donald trump a

bad guy, he wants to build a wall. the pope only heard one side of the story and he didn't see the crime, the drug trafficking, and the negative economic impact. for a religious leader to question a person's faith is disgraceful. they're using the pope as a pawn and they should be ashamed of themselves. that's the mexican government. i think it's great mexico is doing this. if you can get away with it, you have to get away with it. how smart are they? they see the pope and tell the pope bad things about me. i'm very, very strong for illegal immigration. so now the pope says something bad about me, it will be all over the world, who the hell cares? i don't care. we have to stop illegal immigration. we have to stop the massive crime. >> mark halperin, you were actually in the room yesterday. how was the reaction of the crowd? do they seem to be on the pope's side or the donald's side? >> the strangest thing about it

was in a normal year if a presidential candidate started going back at the pope there would be gasp in the room, instead it was like going after john mccain or megyn kelly or anybody else. the reason he did it, we talked about it a million times, trump does not attacks go unanswered. he struck back hard, if he wins weigh in will reinforce the myth and legend of donald trump taking on all comers. the other thing, i don't think this is why he did it, but this story was going to be about in this state about marco rubio's endorsement from nikki haley and tim scott traveling around, new faces of the republican party. i think donald trump is in better shape with rubio and cruz as his rivals but low down. a surging rubio is the biggest danger in some ways to donald trump and i think it had the effect of trump once again, as he often does, dominating the news leading up to the primary. >> michael, do you agree? because everybody i've talked to out there believes that this

actually is a big plus up for donald trump. >> it's a plus up for him. the fact that -- and i think mark hit it on the head -- here's a guy, this is what animates his supporters so much and really draws the attention of everyone else looking on. here's a guy who will go into the well and stand firm. he's going to make his point. he doesn't care about your title. he doesn't care about your position and it's not so much an attack on him as he takes it on as an attack on everything behind me. all the people behind me. you're coming after us because if you're telling me that, you know, i'm not a christian because i want to protect my community from illegal immigrants, then you need to tell that to them, too. that's the sense people get from this. the pope was clearly over his skis on this one a little bit and donald trump used it to his advantage. >> but the pope is way over his skis and you look at the makeup of this state, it's largely evangelical, it's largely working class evangelical and you basically had a pope from

rome in a state that what from what i saw is 49th out of 50th in terms of per capita catholic population saying you can't be for tough law enforcement on illegal immigration and be a christian at the same time. that's just a toxic mix for everyone that is not donald trump. >> fascinating timing. >> how -- >> yes, mike? >> how would you like to be running rubio's campaign, though? getting the endorsement late wednesday, figures he'll get a publicity wave out of it, boom, frozen. >> still ahead on "morning joe," live from charleston, south carolina, ben carson is going to join us and so is squlush is trying to put donald trump in fahrenheit 911 territory. >> i don't know about you but i'm so sick and tired of these left wing people that continue today to have these conspiracy theories. like michael moore, moveon.org,

donald trump. he's in that camp. there's no one legitimate in the democratic party that says what donald trump says. he's out of the mainstream on the left. michael moore must be cheering him on. this is so weird. i don't get it. >> wow. that plus how a vow from jimmy carter 40 years ago could make trouble for hillary clinton. we'll explain that straight ahead. >> this was just strange. this was just strange. >> we have so much news to get to. >> you know you're in trouble when somebody asks you whether you will only tell the truth and you turn it into a final jeopardy question on national television. [ humming "jeopardy" theme ] >> i'm not sure what happened there. do you think there's a gender thing there, actually. >> or a clintonian thing?

>> i think it's clintonian. >> i think it's clintonian. >> men just ram through, say what needs to be said. women are honest. here's bill karins. >> he will always tell you the truth. >> always has trouble with the truth and the forecast. bill? >> i will always try to tell you the truth, of course, whenever you need me i'm here for you. as far as the windchills go this morning, in the northeast it's cold but good news, the weekend is going to have a taste of spring for just about everybody. the only trouble, some weather in the nerz, bring your umbrellas portland to seattle. the heat is in the middle of the country and it's spreading east. 71 in st. louis, 60 today in chicago. that's an april-like temperature, one cool day in the northeast and the mid-atlantic and the warmth arrives on saturday so in south carolina it should be in the 60s, 63 in d.c., 56 in new york. even boston gets into the 50s. for the tail end of the weekend on sunday temperatures are very comfortable, even minneapolis at 38 isn't bad.

new york at 52, atlanta at 69 and there's not a lot of troublesome weather, just rain sunday afternoon, maybe a thunderstorm in dallas. but overall we're looking good in nevada and also areas of the east coast, especially south carolina this weekend. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're an at&t small business expert? sure am. my staff could use your help staying in touch with customers. at&t can help you stay connected. am i seeing double? no ma'am. our at&t 'buy one get one free' makes it easier for your staff to send appointment reminders to your customers... ...and share promotions on social media? you know it! now i'm seeing dollar signs. you should probably get your eyes checked. good one babe. optometry humor. right now get up to $650 in credits to help you switch to at&t. is caring.ng because covering heals faster. to seal out water, dirt and germs, cover with a water block clear bandage

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a [ applause ] okay. we got a lot to get to at 23 past the hour. hillary clinton made some news last night on cbs when she was asked if she could match a famous declaration from a past democratic president about honesty. >> '76, jimmy carter famously said "i will not lie to you." >> well, i have to tell you, i have tried in every way i know how literally from my years as a young lawyer all the way through my time as secretary of state to level with the american people. >> you talk about leveling with the american people. have you always told the truth?

>> i've always tried to. always. always. >> some people are going to call wiggle room that you just gave yourself. always tried to. jimmy carter said "i will never lie to you." >> you're asking me to say have i ever. i don't believe i ever have. i don't believe i ever have, i don't believe i ever will. i'm going to do the best i can to level with the american people. >> okay, with that as a backdrop, does anybody want to chime in? >> i do. "i will never lie to the american people." move on. >> mika has a point here. listening to it again, maybe hillary clinton is trying to be honest about the fact that sometimes you are not in possession of all of the facts and you may say something that is not 100% -- >> or you here in possession of facts you can't say. >> but that's not -- >> if you're in -- >> you say "i will never lie."

>> if you're in possession of facts you can't share -- it sounds terrible but i wonder whether it's not something -- >> she took an easy question and made it tough and look at the face. >> no, no, no. >> i've felt this for several weeks now. i think it can sum up the problem that hillary clinton, despite her credentials, is having in this campaign, the same problem she had in 2008 and it's a line out of "cool hand luke" uttered to paul newman when he said, what we have here is a failure to communicate. >> i cannot believe i'm on the other end of this. >> you look at facial expressions. this is an easy question. >> it is. >> it's an easy question and she looked like she was being interrogated by the fbi. >> you look into the camera and you say "i will never lie to the american people." you're running for president. and you want to instill that confidence in folks to know that you're going to be straight with them and i get your point, katty, that you don't have all the information, but that's not the same as lying because that's

not based -- that's a lack of knowledge. >> no. i'm telling you -- >> it's not saying you're going to lie. >> a simple declarative statement. >> why does she make everything so difficult. >> jimmy carter "i will never lie to you. when i'm your president i will never lie to you." >> and that would be the only president you could ever believe. so there you go. >> any president that would run, you would hope they would answer that question. >> no. >> yes, i actually would. >> well, i'm sorry, that's very naive. >> exactly. they may answer the question, but whether they're telling the truth -- >> and she just told the truth. i can't believe i'm on the other end of this. there's a lot of problems with hillary clinton's campaign but that was a person, a human being who happened to be a woman who i do think we do things differently, doing her best to tell the truth to a question that she knew was a political bomb. >> it looked terrible but i agree. >> let's go to mark halperin. mark halperin, mika and catty k tty's comments aside.

the men on this -- >> the naive men who lie well. [ laughter ] >> yes, i will always tell the truth. it just seems to me the fact that that became a contentious part of an interview with scott pelley seems to underline hillary clinton's problem in her campaign that right now is in a bit of a freefall, at least internally. >> couple days ago i did an interview with bernie sanders, john heilemann and i did and asked him "is it ever appropriate for a president to lie?" he paused but then he said no. and i think the contrast is he was never a lawyer at the rose law firm questioned in front of a grand jury and who knows every word she ever says is skr scrutinized. so there's an uncomfortableness that i think is a product of what she's been through. i agree with mike, it's a reflection of her ability to communicate with the american people in a way that even her owned a visors will say her biggest problem to become the

next president is a question of whether people trust her to tell the truth, whether she's honest. so that answer was a reflection of her predicament and compounded her predicament. >> it also unfortunately is the product of 30, 35, 40 years of the clintons or the clinton supporters deliberately lying to investigators, deliberately lying to people on capitol hill, deliberately lying to people all around them as maureen dowd said, most of their scars are self-inflicted and i say that because i remember david geffen, remember, famously said in 2007 and nobody came rushing to the clintons' defense. david geffen said the clintons are unusually good liars. and then he announced why he was supporting barack obama. >> well, bob kerrey, who ran against bill clinton in the 1992 new hampshire primary and lost said, you know, bill clinton is just an unbelievably great liar.

so it's been in the mix for years and years and years whether they lie or not, that's going to be a judgment for history, well, it hasn't been a judgment for history thus far. >> no, in fact, it did nothing for bill clinton. >> but the real difficulty, the conundrum here is she is so experienced, has been on the scene for so long, knows so much about the internal workings of government and of the presidency, why she could not say "no, i would not lie to the american public but i have to tell you, a president, any president, might not be able to tell you the truth." >> i think that's what she was trying to say. >> it was a forward-looking question. you can just say "i won't do it. can". >> she knows the american people accept a man who lies and even embrace them and won't by a woman. hillary clinton was asked by an audience member at last night's msnbc/telemundo town hall about releasing the transcripts of her paid speeches to companies like goldman sachs. >> why are you hesitant-to-release transcripts

or audio/video recordings of those meetings in order to be transparent with the american people regarding the promises and assurances that you have made to the big banks? [ applause ] >> well, let me say this. i am happy to release anything i have when everybody else does the same. [ applause ] because every other candidate in this race has given speeches to private groups, including senator sanders. >> again -- >> there it goes again. from the very first moment she was asked that question i knew she was on that hedge cliff when she was like "yeah, we'll think about it." so now we've gone from "we'll think about it" to "i will if everyone else will." everyone else doesn't have the problem you have with the american people. >> everyone else who made $225,000 in an hour's time should release those as well. you may recall at a democratic debate in new hampshire two weeks ago hillary clinton said she would "look into" the

releasing of the transcripts of her paid speeches. well, last night, the sanders' campaign took to twitter posting a link to a web site called iwilllookintoit.com. when you click the link you get sent to a clock counting how long it's been since clinton said she would look into releasing the transcripting. the sanders campaign tweeted a link to a speech the senator gave on c-span's book tv in 2011 along with a caption "don't worry, the $500 payout was give on the charity." ouch. wow. well, i think those speeches unfortunately for her are going to come out but they're not going to come out being released by her and i think there will be some things in those speeches that will create huge problems for her. >> the clintons just don't -- the clintons don't operate that way. the clintons never release. >> they're going to be released by someone. >> it's always dragged out of them kicking and screaming. it's been happening for 30

years. >> i would add -- i agree with you, but i would add it's not so much the speeches or the transcripts. this just adds to the level of exhaustion that's out there about the clintons. for 20, 25, 30 years it exhausts people. >> these are the self-inflicted wounds. the need to make more money when you've already made over $100 million, that's hard for people to understand. why do that when you knew you were going to run for president? why not just say no? >> it seems this is just a calculation what the clintons have to make. is what she said in the speeches so chummy and so supportive of the financial industry and so counter to the mood of the democratic party right now that it would be damaging to her or is it not? >> well, it apparently -- >> apparently it was hillary clinton's camp who arrange that these transcripts be made,

right? that was part of her -- >> it actually apparently is damaging based on all the reporting that's come out since then. it was clubby, she apologized to goldman sachs. >> that's going to come out. that's what's going to come out. >> so let's set up the democratic race. the clinton team expected a big win in iowa, they didn't get it, it was a tie. they expected a win in new hampshire, they didn't get it, bernie blew them away. nevada they expected a big win there. >> we don't know what's going to happen. >> that race is tight in nevada. we don't know what will happen. but at least in south carolina, right here, it seems that hillary is still holding her advantage. >> new polling out of south carolina shows hillary clinton maintaining a strong lead ahead of next weekend's primary. clinton leads by 28 points in our new nbc news/"wall street journal"/marist poll. 22 points in a new bloomberg politics poll and 29 points in a new monmouth university poll. but bernie sanders continues to perform well in national surveys

against clinton. in our nbc news/"wall street journal" poll just crossing the wire, sanders has cut into clinton's national lead significantly since last month, trailing her by 11 points, 53% to 42%. in a poll from fox news, sanders has overtaken clinton by three points. >> mark halperin, there are other national polls showing this race to be very close on the national level, something we didn't think we'd see two months ago. i saw a number from quinnipiac last night, the favorability ratings over the last three or four months of hillary clinton and bernie sanders. bernie sanders is going straight up into the 50s. hillary clinton is dipping down into the 30s. at some point, this catches up everywhere. >> and don't forget, he continues to win in paid media because he's got more money. jim clyburn is endorsing hillary clinton today. she'll get a nice bump in the state but most states he's

winning the news cycle. she's being treated, i think, as always, being held to a different standard, that's a struggle for her right now. whatever happens tomorrow in the caucuses -- and it's a weird event, anything could happen there -- whatever her margin of victory here is in south carolina, march 1 is the battle. can bernie sanders go into that day and hold his own? because if he doesn't, she'll have a delegate lead that will be under democratic rules virtually impossible for him to surmount. so these two contests are important but it's a question about does he go into march with enough money and momentum and can she come back with her demographic advantages and win on march 1 on this first super tuesday. all right, coming up, a must-see moment with john kasich on the campaign trail. >> wow, that was moving, huh? >> it was, we'll be live all weekend long from beautiful downtown charleston right here on the market. we'll be right back. >> are you guys going to come back snowstorm? >> at the market pavilion hotel.

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♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ >> and i don't want to get too emotional. it's serious but it has a happy ending. like, over a year ago a man who is like my second dad, he killed himself and then a few months later my parents got a divorce and then a few months later my

dad lost his job but -- and i was in a really dark place for a long time. i was pretty depressed. but i found hope and i found in the the lord and in my friends and now i've found it in my presidential candidate that i support and i'd really appreciate one of those hugs you've been talking about. [ applause ] >> so that hug, i mean, look at that. that is -- you know, there is magic throughout on the campaign trail if you look for it and it happens a lot more than you would think. it's moments like that that don't get enough attention. >> i have to admit, that was -- >> i'm teared up. >> me, too. and so did kasich. >> as the only person who has run for office -- except for you, but he won -- >> i won one! >> what is that like to see a

man in that sort of distress who is putting his hopes and aspirations and -- in you? >> i tell you, it made me feel very uncomfortable but it made me feel a sense of responsibility and i will tell you, and i've said this to people that were getting into congress that have asked me what's it like. i said i went up there, i was overly ideological, everything was about cutting taxes, cutting spending, cutting this, cutting that. i said we did a lot of incredible things, we balanced the budget for the first time in a generation, we passed welfare reform, all of these big things. nobody ever stops me in my home district and says "thank you for supporting the flat tax. thank you for --" it's always they come up and tear up and say "my mom and dad, you won't remember this, but the irs had been on their farm, their family farm, for seven years and it was

ruining their -- and you called up the irs agent and said either throw them in jail or get off their property." and i'll hear that. then i'll get on a plane -- and this is like 15 years later somebody will say "my mom was down in peru and we couldn't get her back up. you called somebody down there at midnight and she was on a plane by 6:00." that's what you hear. and that's what's so incredible. you think it's a great ideological exercise. no, it's helping people like that. >> it's the personal. >> the ease with which john kasich had no doubt. he stepped forward totally comfortable with that hug and then he himself was -- when you watch at that moment when he's over his shoulder and his face scrunches up, he's stopping himself tearing up. >> there's more to the clip. if we played the extended clip, he speaks to that young man. >> in his ear.

>> for several seconds and what happened there happens nearly everyday in a political campaign, i would think, and it's the introduction of the human drama, of daily life to the candidate. some candidates can't hear. kasich along with other candidates, he listens and hearsay. >> think about what you send out on the water. what you toss on the water and what comes back to you. john kasich in iowa and new hampshire said "we want a different type of campaign" and he talks about people that come up and hug him, people in the shadows of life. this kid got in his car and drove up from georgia because he wanted a hug and it's so easy to be cynical but what you throw out on the water will come back to you. you taur about instant karma and it was beautiful. >> that's what people feel in their candidates and what draws them to them and talk about the

hillary clinton, that's the element that's missing with her in many respects, that kind of a moment and people sense that. >> i feel like kasich, a republican, has captured humanity of all the candidates in this campaign. >> he has, by being real in a year of very very ugly campaigns. >> it's hard to describe. again, the pope's involved. up next, something perhaps a bit less inspirational from the campaign trail, ted cruz's latest attack ad against marco rubio. >> okay, this is the toughest ad i've seen all year. >> you're watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message.

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27 past the hour, ted cruz's campaign is out with one of the toughest ads of the election cycle. are you with me? >> i've got to say. i saw this online and i was about to click on to it and i was like, oh another one of these negative ads. >> this is unbelievable. >> this is a killer. >> i was about to look at it and comment about how the guys at second and third should stop fighting each other and go after trump. >> right. >> and then i saw the ad. >> right. >> and i wonder why they didn't put this ad out months ago because it would have gutted marco's campaign early. >> let's show the ad. >> this is devastating. >> here it is. >> then rubio got to washington and wrote to bill giving amnesty to illegals using obama's talking points to make his sales pitch. >> we know we have to deal with the 11 million people that are here illegally. >> we have to deal with the 11 million individuals who are here illegally. the bill that senator rubio put forward i think is a great place to start. >> you are giving legal status

to people who have broken the law. >> they still have to qualify for it, meaning -- >> passing a background check. >> past a background check. >> pay a penalty. >> pay a fine. >> paying taxes. >> start paying taxes. >> it won't be a quick process. >> that is a long path. >> but it will be a fair process. >> but i do think it's fair. >> marco rubio burned us once, he shouldn't get the chance to sell us out again. >> let's go to the republican on the panel. >> oh, my god! >> instead of robotic reading his own script over and over, they have found him reading barack obama's script on illegal immigration. >> again, remember, he did the iowa speech, too. >> marco delivering the talking points out of the white house, that's the takeaway from that. it's a gut hit. you're right, joe, if they played that earlier in this cycle i don't think you'd semar co-where he is right now. >> it's devastating. >> i happen to support what that bill was trying to do. i think it was a good piece of

legislation but most republican voters don't. so to have those clips back to back of rubio/obama, rubio/obama, it's worse than damaging, it's devastating. joining us from columbia, south carolina, nbc news correspondent hallie jackson. hallie, how is ted cruz preparing for tomorrow's primary? >> in a couple ways but on this ad, it's interesting, when you're out at these town halls in places like south carolina and other place this is cycle, one of the things you hear about when it comes to marco rubio is his position on immigration. even people who like rubio, even people who are supporting him still tell me things like i love him but i worry about his immigration position. this is a vulnerability for his campaign. rubio's team knows it, cruz's team knows it which is why they're rolling out this tough ad. they're hitting donald trump in nevada, a new one airing ahead of the caucuses so he's looking ahead to tomorrow. i believe the cruz campaign thinks they will perform better than their public polling shows. i'm not sure they think they can beat donald trump at this point

given the dominant lead trump has but they're looking ahead to where they are in vegas, in nevada in a couple days and looking past that to their ground game in those march 1 states. so look at what they've done in south carolina, about 100,000 door knocks in the last week. in texas, 27,000 volunteers. in oklahoma, 10,000. in tennessee 7,000. they have a lot of people on the ground and they believe they can replicate what they did in iowa as far as getting these volunteers out to get out the vote. that's the key. they have that microtargeting data where you can call up folks and sayish what shoes do you care about here is why you should vote for senator cruz. the big challenge for them in south carolina is trying to get past donald trump. the campaign is also trying to set expectations high for rubio although i think there's a sense that as long as rubio beats the rest of the establishment lane he can punch the ticket out of south carolina. guys? >> nbc's hallie jackson, thank you very much. >> it's something we said here after iowa.

if you have a candidate who overperformed in the field in iowa, they're going to overperform in the field in new hampshire. ted cruz did, surprised people with a second-place finish. now you come to the deep south where he has more of his people to draw from. i expect ted cruz to outperform every poll not only in south carolina but the deep south. he knows how to pull people out to vote for him and unlike new hampshire he has a big enough pool of people to find, i.d., drag them to the poll. let me go to mark halperin quickly. mark halperin, the rubio ad, the ad against rubio appears to be devastating. any information behind that ad and, more importantly, why didn't cruz release an ad showing marco rubio clearly reading barack obama's talking points? >> not just ted cruz but ted cruz's super pac. they've produced different videos on this gang of eight bill. it's long been thought it was a silver bullet. i've been asked for several months where's the great 30-second spot that deals with

this. rubio has been asked about this in the debate. he's skillful, tried to push things back on ted cruz and challenging him. i agree with michael steele, if this had been earlier, all theened a dates have vulnerabilities. this is the biggest vulnerability any of the major candidates have but they're bringing it up pretty late in the process. what the bush people will tell you and the kasich people will say, if rubio becomes the top establishment finisher here, that type of ad and maybe that specific ad will run often in the upcoming states and make rubio vulnerable on the hottest button in the party right now. all right, coming up, more on the holy war that broke out between the pope and donald trump. you're watching "morning joe" live from the holy city, charleston, south carolina. [ applause ] think of it as a seven seat theater... for an action packed thriller.

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coming up at the top of the hour, jeb bush joins us live with from the campaign trail. can he defy the polls? and he was disappointed not to get nikki haley's endorsement? but is there a possible down side for marco rubio? we'll talk about that when "morning joe" continues live from charleston, south carolina. your path to retirement... may not always be clear. but at t. rowe price, we can help guide your retirement savings. for over 75 years, investors have relied on our disciplined approach to find long term value.

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>> the pope said a person who thinks only about building walls wherever they may be and not building bridges is not a christian. which, of course, is nonsense, donald trump made it very clear his favorite book is the bible so he's definitely a christian. here's more from pope vs. trump. >> the pope said something to the effect that maybe donald trump isn't christian and he's questioning my faith. for a religious leader to question a person's faith is disgraceful. >> the pope is disgraceful! >> the pope today responded on his twitter page, he said thank you to mexico and to all mexicans may the lord and the blessed virgin of guadalupe accompany you always, donald trump is a loser.

[ cheers and applause ] and welcome back to "morning joe." >> that's getting personal there. >> that is personal. we're live in charles on the, south carolina. >> donald trump is a loser? i'm uncomfortable with that. >> what is the pope doing? with us at the market pavilion hotel we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle, veteran journalist. the "washington post" eugene robinson. former chairman of the republican national committee michael steel, washington anchor for bbc world news america katty kay, and in columbia, south carolina, managing editor of bloomberg politics, mark halperin. >> let's talk to our catholic expert. >> please. >> i went to catholic school for four years, i'll a big fan of this pope, i was astounded that the same pope that said who am i to judge -- >> it's a little bit of a -- >> who am i to judge is the guy that says well, if he says he's going to build a wall, it's not a christian.

that's staggering. >> i was not astounded. >> you weren't astounded that he's basically condemning him to hell because he supports -- >> he did not say that. >> he says you're not a christian. if you're not a christian than the catholic church believes you are going to hell. so by saying he's not a christian because he supports the building of a wall, that's a problem. >> i think that's putting words in pope francis's mouth. >> please, barnicle. >> i again, what the pope said, he said it in an inartful way. what he said was -- >> he's not a christian. >> no, he didn't quite say that. >> he did say that. >> if he only thinks about building walls wherever they may be and not building bridges is not christian. you can talk about both. donald does not talk about both. >> about what? >> about building walls and about being -- >> i would love -- >> i know one bridge he's build. our infrastructure.

>> he was at seminary. >> i went to baptist churches three, four times a week for the first three decades -- >> that's what happened to you? >> explains so much. >> i have read more bible verses through the years. i have never seen anything that comes close to a religious leader justifying anything like that. >> it's a piece up right now on washingtonpost.com written by a priest, a monsignor an actual theologian as opposed to all of us who are amateur theologians who explains the doctrine that led to the pope having said what he said and it softens it somewhat. that's basically all i can say. >> that's the key point. what the pope was saying and i think it was literally a translation issue from what he was thinking and how he

expressed it in english. you touched on that earlier. the pope was largely in the line of saying christian doctrine, the teachings of the church, is whatever faith you happen to be in christianity tells us we should be about building bridges, not building walls. >> the least among us. >> right. but it came out as you are not christian, basically saying this is not christian doctrine but the slam was direct to trump in that he basically called the man out on his faith. >> but what you don't do if you're a religious leader -- and yes, i will say it -- if you want to be consistent with the teachings of the gospels, what you don't do is say a man is not a christian if he does x politically. what you can say is go to matthew 25 and look where jesus talks about those that are going to be sheep separated from the goats and those are the ones that give a cup of water to the thirsty, that feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, that visit people in jail, that bring hope

to the hopeless, you can say that but you just can't say as a religious leader if you want to be consistent with the teachings of christ, "if you support a tough immigration policy, you're not a christian." >> that's not what he yesterday? and thank you, martin luther, we're relitigating the reformation. >> he said if you only build walls. he didn't say because donald trump has a tough policy on immigration he is not a christian. that is not what the pope said. >> i can't believe he said anything. >> i can't, either. >> that's the key thing. >> it's a problem that a lot of people have -- >> that's who he is. that's who he is. >> and you think it's good for the pope to get involved in american politics? it's so fascinating. >> and call someone not christian? >> how we have turned from 1960 to 2016 where in 1960 people were afraid john kennedy was going to get his dictates from the vatican and now we have the

vatican trying to give their dictates to republican candidates in america. >> he's not doing that. he's not doing that. >> he is not doing that. but if he were there is a centuries long tradition of popes getting involved in politics. story to break the news, but they have done it. >> and preaching inclusivity. >> let's see how he's doing in the polls given all of this. >> the pope? [ laughter ] >> the pope is doing pretty well. this hasn't hurt him. >> but what are we to judge? breaking news before the polls open, we have new numbers in the race for south carolina. the new nbc/"wall street journal"/marist poll gives trump a five-point lead, down from his 16-point advantage in the same poll a month ago. trump is at 28% to ted cruz's 23%. marco rubio is in a distance third at 15% followed by jeb bush who has gained four points since last month. john kasich and ben carson are

tied at 9%. this despite trump maintaining a strong lead in other public polls, the latest american research group tracking poll gives trump a 12-point edge, 34% to rubio's 23%. with kasich barely ahead of cruz at 13%, bush at 9%, carson at 4%. tox news poll tells a slightly different story with trump at 32%, cruz in second at 19%, rubio third at 15%, bush and carson tied at 9% and kasich at 6%. >> you look at the fox news poll that has trump at 32%, cruz at 19% which is consistent with every other poll we've seen. same thing with the american research group. that poll was in the 15th through the 17th, the same time the nbc news poll was in the field. i've seen other polls in the field from the 15th through the 17th that show donald trump in the 30s and show him comfortably ahead. this is the second nbc poll there two days that is an out

liar and mark halperin are there any other polls throughout? and these polls were taken after the republican debate last week. are there any other polls that support the nbc news position, our network's position that this race in south carolina is that close and that ted cruz is ahead on a national level? >> none that i've heard of and none that any of the campaigns agree with, including their own data. the only thing in south carolina that s that trump is going to win this primary and probably by a substan, margin. >> mark, are there any internal polls sorry for the delay. are any there any internal polls any campaigns have that suggest the race in south carolina or nationally is as close as the nbc polls? >> no, none that i've heard of. trump is ahead nationally by a substantial margin according to everything i've seen and ahead in this state by a substantial

margin the big question for me is the order behind trump where all of the other candidates including ben carson can look at various polls and think they have a chance for second or third or in some cases important fourth. >> all right, let's turn the democrats. >> can i ask quickly? >> okay. >> mark, set it up for us. if rubio -- the talk around here last night monk south carolina politicos was with marco rubio getting every single endorsement he could have dreamed of, everything going his way, people are saying now if marco rubio doesn't finish in second place he has to get out of the race, what i had said before this week was all rubio has to do is finish ahead of jeb, the person who's behind the over needs to get out of the race but now expectations are so high even the "national review," and we'll have the writer for the "national review" who's been an extension of the rubio campaign for the better part of six months is saying if he doesn't finish in second place he needs

to get out. is that the feeling among the rubio camp? >> no, with all due respect, that's one of the silliest things i've heard this cycle. rubio needs to beat bush here and that's it. he will consolidate the money and endorsements and political support and have a chance to be in a three or four way final, kasich will go on, too: he doesn't need to finish second. if he finishes second, it's a big problem for ted cruz and great for rubio but not essential for him at all. >> okay. moving on to the democrats, can we talk about hillary clinton and bernie sanders? >> sure. >> i know we're waiting on jeb bush who is coming up. alex, what's the timeline on that? let's turn to the democrats. here's hillary clinton speaking with cbs news. when asked about the issue of honesty. >> you know, in '76 jimmy carter famously said "i will not lie to you." >> uh-huh. well, i have to tell you i have tried in every way i know how

literally in my years as a young lawyer all the way through my time as secretary of state to level with the american people. >> you talk about leveling with the american people, have you always told the truth? >> i've all tried to, always, always. >> some people are going to call that wiggle room, always tried to. jimmy carter said "i will never lie to you." >> you're asking me to say have i ever, i don't believe i ever have. i don't believe i ever have. i don't believe i ever will. i'm going to do the best i can to level with the american people. >> here is how bernie sanders answered a similar question about honesty earlier this week on "with all due respect." >> i'm wondering whether you think it's ever appropriate for a president to publicly lie to the american people. >> well, i should hope not. i mean, i think what there has got to be in terms of the relationship of government to the people, which we are losing

everyday, is a level of trust so i would hope that a president of the united states tells the truth to the american people. >> wow. >> hmm. >> a little bit of a difference there in the ability to answer the question. >> but some riggle room "i would hope that it wouldn't happen." it wasn't as direct as carter saying "i will never lie to you" or joe earlier saying "i will never lie to you." >> exactly. it's very easy. "i will never lie to you." jimmy carter standard. let's ask this next question to our guest from columbia, south carolina, republican presidential candidate, former governor jeb bush of florida. governor thank you so much for being with us. hillary clinton was having trouble answering a question that we're going to ask you. if you're president of the united states, will you ever tell a lie to the american people? >> no, i won't. >> all right, thank you very much. jeb bush. [ laughter and applause ]

we appreciate you being on "morning joe." >> it's not that hard, is it, jeb? it's not really that hard. >> the struggle seems to be, look, you can misspeak, i do that all the time but knowingly tell a lie to the american people? no, of course not. we need to have a president that has unimpeachable integrity. over and out. >> so tell us about the state of the campaign right now. a lot of people talking, quite frankly, a lot of polls are all over the place, some are you in single digits, so vietnam you fig -- some have you in third place. >> i don't understand this. people are still undecided. as a candidate it's unnerving but we have people coming to our town hall meetings saying "i was for trump, after hearing you speak, i'm for you." i give hugs out to people when they do that so i think we're

going well. we're working hard, lindsey graham, if you want to have a war with someone, you want lindsey graham in the fox hole with you. my mom is coming today to hang out with me, i feel good about where we are so we'll find out on saturday, the polls are kind of irrelevant now. >> so i want to ask you about comments that the pope made about donald trump saying he's not a christian because of the hole wall thing: what did you think when you heard that? >> well, first of all, i thought it was probably inappropriate for the pope to intervene in the height of a contested primary in that way. i don't question donald trump's christianity, that's between him and his creator. the fact is, he's got the wrong policy, building a wall and making mexico pay for it isn't a policy. that's an emotion, a sentiment that tries to appeal to people's anxious and frustration and

anger. the pope is right about that but i don't think he should interject himself into the political arena. he's the head of my church so i'm cautious about this to be honest but i don't think he helped anybody by saying donald trump's not a christian. >> gene robinson? >> governor, good morning, politically speaking, do you have to finish ahead of rubio in tomorrow's primary and are you going to do that? >> i hope i ham. that would be a heck of a victory given the fact that he's basically been coronated in this political process all the way through, we iraq working hard to achieve that. i don't know what i have to do. i'm in charge of what i can be in charge with. conventional wisdom and expectations, that's y'all's job. >> mike barn zml. >> governor, what was the thought process in your campaign behind the issuance of a twitter

picture this week of a .45-caliber handgun with your name on it and the phrase "america" beneath the picture? >> well, it was in honor and recognition of attending -- going to the manufacturing facility and having a town hall meeting with the workers that made that gun and i was proud to receive the gun, i was proud to interact with them. i learned a lot from the town hall meeting and i hopefully shared my views on how we could restore economic growth. it was a recognition that the second amendment is as important as any other part of the bill of rights. it's under attack right now. the selection of the next supreme court justice with the passing of justice scalia puts the second amendment front and center in front of the american people and i want the american people to know where i stand. i'm in favor of protecting second amendment rights for law abiding citizens. >> governor, katty kay here, just to pick up on what gene was saying. if you don't finish ahead of

rubio, if you come in fourth or fifth in south carolina, what happens to your campaign next? >> we're on the ballot in every state, my intention is to go forward but i'm not focused on sunday or monday or tuesday, i'm focused on friday and saturday. i'll make my case that i'm ready to be president from day one. i have detailed plans to lift us out of the funk that exists right now and that i can change the culture in washington, d.c. have. >> governor, very quickly, we need to go but very quickly first, i had asked donald trump what he was going to save social security, medicare and medicaid. he said he wasn't going to raise the retirement age, said he wasn't going to do anything to reform it, if you were president of the united states, will you help save social security and medicare by raising the retirement age over time. >> yes, absolutely. and aarp comes to every one of my town hall meetings and asks this question and they are

supportive of our plan because it's a serious plan. donald trump doesn't know what he's talking about, of course we have to save social security for those that have it and we need to reform it so it exists for the next generation and saying we have to do nothing is -- talk about not being truthful, there's a good example of not telling the truth. we have to raise the retirement age. my plan calls for raising the benefit for people of lower income and lowering the benefits for people of higher income so you have a benefit for people that's 120% of the poverty level rather than 830% of the poverty level. so along the way making those as justments are important as well. >> governor jeb bush thank you very much for being on the show. we'll see you soon. still ahead on "morning joe," a picture is worth a thousand words -- unless it was photoshopped. we'll talk about a photo the cruz campaign posted. plus, chuck todd joins us live. we're live in charleston, south carolina, we'll be right back. [ applause ]

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22 past the hour. welcome back, hillary clinton and bernie sanders were both in las vegas last night for a town hall hosted by msnbc and telemundo. earlier in the day, when asked about bill clinton's recent comments comparing his surge to the rise of the tea party senator sanders went right after the former president on everything from wall street reform to welfare reform to trade: here's what hillary clinton had to say last night about her husband and president obama in response. >> well, he was the president who created 23 million jobs, who raised incomes for every group in america, not just those at the top so, you know, i know senator sanders has attacked president obama and called him weak and disappointing, tried to get somebody to run against him in the 2012 election in the primary, i don't know where this comes from because maybe it's

that senator brz was really a democrat until he decided to run for president. he doesn't even know what the -- [ applause ] -- last two democratic presidents did [ boos ] >> well, it's true. it's true. you know it's true, it happens to be true and i have to tell you, i look at our last two democratic presidents, were they perfect? no, no person is. but i'll tell you what, i would take two of them over any republican any time anywhere. >> there is one of the two democratic candidates here who actually ran against barack obama, it wasn't me. overall i think the president has done an outstanding job. >> another democratic president, this happened earlier today on your plane during a quick press gaggle, you are tough on bill clinton's record and you said you hit his record on wall street, you said this was a guy who wanted to deregulate wall street, was for the welfare

reform act you didn't like and got nafta through. it didn't sound like a presidency you were pleased pleased with. >> i was asked to comment on bill clinton's very, very strong kansas city schisms of me. chuck put in the a context. it wasn't that i went around attacking bill clinton >> totally understand. >> it was bill clinton has been on the campaign trail making very nasty comments about me and i was asked about that so i happen to think bill clinton did a pretty good job as president. >> all right. joining us now is the man who co-moderated that town hall, nbc news political director and moderator of "meet the press" and host of "mtp daily," chuck todd. what a night. >> it was. it was quite something. you could feel there's a lot of energy and passion with their supporters. they both got booed when they were going after each other. particularly on that key point you heard it but they were both pretty fiery and i thought they

handled the interpersonal relations with the questions which at these town halls are always part of the way to look at them and judge them to see how they handle being around real people. it's one thing to yell at us in the press, it's another to yell at a voter. i thought they acquitted themselves pretty well on that front. >> chuck, i've heard reports from inside the clinton campaign of some problems, some back and forth, people being split into camps and infighting and concerns nevada may not go the way they were expecting it to go just three, four week ago. what can you report to us from the ground about the state of the clinton campaign and what their prospects are in nevada? >> well, i can tell you this, you talk to people familiar with both campaign apparatuses down in nevada and they will say sanders has the momentum. the question is, the unknown tomorrow is how many new voters are going to register same day and show up for sanders. and the question is i think some

in the clinton camp think it will be a much bigger number than they anticipated therefore sanders could pull the upset. that's what we're looking at. both sides admit sanders has the momentum. the question is, did clinton have a big enough lead to withstand what is a late surge? and i can tell you this, joe, you can make a case that in on odd way this is a must-win for bernie sanders and here's why. if sanders can't win in a diverse electorate under these circumstances, a caucus not a primary, momentum on his side, being able to outspend her as he has. if he can't win under these, where is he going to win in a state with a diverse electorate? he appears to have the momentum. if he pulls that off, it's another week of what's wrong with the clinton campaign and i'm not saying south carolina is in danger for hillary clinton, but instead of a double-digit win it becomes a single-digit win and then the hand wringing gets intense. >> chuck, what's your take on

the impact of the pope, of the pontiff involving himself in south carolina politics? we knew south carolina politics could be dirty and rough and weird but yesterday it went from a long strange trip to a surreal dream. what's your take? >> it sure did. look, i would just say this. any time that immigration has been at the forefront with donald trump, no matter what he has said, no matter how controversial it's been donald trump has benefitted. now, look, i think all week long there's a lot of evidence with our polling publicly and privately that trump has been bleeding support. he had a big lead, he started the week with a big lead and it's been slowly being chipped away. the question is, is the back-and-forth with the pope, is that a final straw and the temperament issue cruz and rubio and jeb have been trying to make

against trump? that takes hold and brings him down further or does bringing immigration front and center end up backfiring and helping trump? i will say this. it would not shock me if this suddenly is a tipping point that helps trump, doesn't hurt him, only because immigration gets back front and center and every time it has, joe, it's helped him not hurt him. >> chuck todd, thank you so much. not that he would judge, go ahead. >> the other thing i would pick up on what from chuck said on the temperament issue, i was speaking to republicans yesterday and they raised this about what are we doing with our front-runner getting in a fight with the pope and they felt uneasy about it. they didn't like the optics of the front-runner in their party or their party getting involved in some kind of twitter war with the leader of the catholic world. >> yeah, but who were those republicans? they sound more like establishment republicans than

grass-roots activists who were probably going yeah. catholics make up 7% of the population in south carolina. >> it won't hurt him. >> so even among those catholics -- >> but i wonder whether further down the line it plays into the temperament issue. >> the whole thing is uncomfortable for people who are uncomfortable with trump in general and there's a lot of people like that. >> i think you look at people who are comfortable with trump who have been at least a third of the republican electorate all along. this plays into his strongest suit. >> he has taken one issue -- he's taken several issues but one in particular, immigration, and completely branded the republican party this year. >> started the conversation. >> he's made it the litmus test of this campaign. coming up, many are calling governor nikki haley's endorsement of rubio a coup for the florida senator, but is there a down side to the perception of marco's momentum?

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♪ no, you're not ♪ yogonna watch it! ♪tch it! ♪ ♪ we can't let you download on the goooooo! ♪ ♪ you'll just have to miss it! ♪ yeah, you'll just have to miss it! ♪ ♪ we can't let you download... uh, no thanks. i have x1 from xfinity so... don't fall for directv. xfinity lets you download your shows from anywhere. i used to like that song. >> then rubio went to washington and used obama's talking points

to make his sales pitch. >> we have to deal with the 11 million people here that are here illegally. >> we have to deal with the 11 million people here illegally. >> i t bill senator rubio is a great place to start. >> you are giving legal status to people who have broken the law. >> they have to qualify for it meaning -- >> passing a background check. >> passing a background check. >> pay a penalty. >> pay a fine. >> paying taxes. >> start paying taxes. >> it won't be a quick process. >> that is a long path. >> but it will be a fair process. >> but i do think it's fair. rubio burned us once, he shouldn't get the chance to sell us out again. >> nora rose thinks that's really funny. see? >> that's a new ad from the cruz campaign hitting rubio. wow. >> yeah. it was also on the cruz versus rubio front, rubio's campaign is crying foul after a photoshopped image of him with president obama appeared on a web site supporting ted cruz. can you believe that? you're republican, you need to listen. here's the image in question

which was posted on therealrubiorecord.com. a source within the rubio campaign released this stock photo which the campaign says was photo shopped to show rubio shaking hands with the president. >> i mean, look at that for a second. does anybody believe that that's anything but photo shopped? seriously. >> that's a bad photo shop. >> and it's even a bad photo shop. >> the cruz campaign admitted to using the doctored image and as you can imagine the senator from florida was not pleased. exactly! [ laughter ] a spokeswoman for the cruz campaign was asked about the image and said they're distracting from the fact that they're putting out factual information about rubio's record, address the policy in the web side and the facts, the story and stop being sidetracked by things that aren't important, the photoshopped image has been replaced with an actual photo of rubio shaking hands with the president. they could have just gotten that one. right? ridiculous, no a rose didn't like that, either.

still ahead, ben carson joins us live and we will be live all weekend long from beautiful downtown charleston. we'll be back here saturday and sunday at the market pavilion hotel from 8:00 to 10:00. join us if you're in town but get here early, come have a cup of coffee. we're back in just a moment. you're an at&t small business expert? sure am. my staff could use your help staying in touch with customers. at&t can help you stay connected. am i seeing double? no ma'am. our at&t 'buy one get one free' makes it easier for your staff to send appointment reminders to your customers... ...and share promotions on social media? you know it! now i'm seeing dollar signs. you should probably get your eyes checked. good one babe. optometry humor. right now get up to $650 in credits to help you switch to at&t. trust number one doctor recommended dulcolax constipated? use dulcolax tablets for gentle overnight relief suppositories for relief in minutes

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the possibility of a flare was almost always on my mind. thinking about what to avoid, where to go... and how to deal with my uc. to me, that was normal. until i talked to my doctor. she told me that humira helps people like me get uc under control and keep it under control when certain medications haven't worked well enough. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure.

before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. raise your expectations. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, control is possible. >> and i don't want to get too emotional. it's serious but it has a happy ending. like, over a year ago a man who was like my second dad, he killed himself. and then a few months later my parents got a divorce. >> and then a few months later my dad lost his job and i was in a really dark place for a long time, i was pretty depressed but i found hope and i found in the the lord and in my friends and

now i've found it in my presidential candidate that i support and i'd really appreciate one of those hugs you've been talking about. [ applause ] >> wow, that was pretty incredible moment there on the kasich campaign trail. joining us now, senior writer at the "weekly standard," john mccormick. also the "national review's" political correspondent tim alberta. l good morning to you both. >> john, let's start with you. we're hearing things about kasich, it's all anecdotal until it was all anecdotal in new hampshire until we found out he came in second place. >> he shot up in the polls in

south carolina. i didn't think anybody would think that john kasich would finish ahead of jeb bush. but he's in a strong position to come in fourth place ahead of -- behind rubio and cruz but in a strong position in the low teens, maybe even higher. >> tim alberta, you say while a nikki haley endorsement for marco rubio could be seen as a good thing, the expectations are so high on him because as jeb bush said he's basically been coronated in this state, every political endorsement you could get of import he seems to have goten. >> the entire political machine of south carolina on the republican side is behind rubio. that's why nikki haley's endorsement inflates the expectations that should have been there already. he is the entire apparatus of the old republican guard and it's been in place for over a year now so his campaign has masterfully spun the expectations and haly has brought it out in the open.

>> what if he finishes third? >> he's in trouble. we've seen trump's numbers slide. there's a chance rubio could surge into first, i don't think that's out of the question! >> so you think rubio could win south carolina? >> he could: i'm not saying he will but he could. the infrastructure he has in place is n the state is significant, very important, the same way we saw cruz in iowa. when push came to shove it was the ground game that got it done. >> and he has the entire party behind him. >> we also have this from john mccormick on the pope's claims. i don't know if we have the full screen of this but you said that the pope's claim that a person is not christian if he take's trump's position on immigration will likely dismay catholics and other christians. it's certainly possible that one could favor deportation policies carried out as an inhumane manner contrary to christian teaching but there is no catholic prohibition on merely

deporting illegal immigrants. pope francis has never said that barack obama and nancy pelosi are not christian because they support a legal right to infanticide but now he has strongly suggested that donald trump is not krit chan because he wants to build a border wall and deport all illegal imgants. trump may or may not be a christian but the pope's comments are just baffling. >> john, we're with you. we don't understand. what do you think the political impact will be in this state? >> as for the political impact, there aren't a lot of claeks in south carolina so i don't think the pope holds sway but he went after him on a -- it's been reported as the pope said that anyone who supports a border wall is not christian. well, he obviously said more than that. the question involved deporting 11 million people and breaking up families. that's the full context. but it was very harsh rhetoric and it's a mainstream republican position. there's no absolute christian teaching on the proper way to

approach immigration policy. there are some issues that are non- non-negotiable. >> you touched on some of the other ones. >> what's so interesting is off pope who has been more permissive on issues, as john said, not condemning politicians who might support abortion rights, not suggesting that they're not christians, even though what they're doing is in direct contravention of the catholic church's teachings. >> i think we should keep in mind that for the pope there's a larger context and a much -- an issue, a crisis that's much closer which is the immigration crisis in europe that affects italy, that affects the -- all of europe and he's been delivering the message that we can't just build walls, we can't just keep people out, people are suffering, so i think that's a larger context in which he made

the specific remarks about u.s. politics which he doesn't get into. popes don't usually -- they're not usually pundits. they don't come on "morning joe." >> no, okay so candidates rubio and kasich responded to this -- i don't know what to call it, kerfuffle between trump and the pope. take a look. >> there's no nation on earth that's more compassionate on immigration than we are. we accept a million people a year in the united states legally. every year. mexico doesn't do that. no other country in the world does that. but we're a sovereign country and we have a right to control who comes in, when they come in and how they come in. vatican city controls who comes in, when they come in and how they come in as the a city state and as a result, the united states has the right to do that as well. >> well, first of all, i'm pro pope. put me down in the pro pope columns. he is the essence of humility and he has opened the walls and the doors of the church to loots of people who didn't understand it. now, here's what i will say, we

have a right to build a wall but there are too many walls between us. we need bridges between us if we're going to fix the problems in washington because all they do is have walls. >> very interesting there, michael steele. john kasich seemed to side with the pope against donald trump. >> he did. i think he tried to thread that needle more carefully than maybe rubio did in that he understands what the pope is trying to say. we talked about this earlier, he said it inartfully. but i go back to what you just just said, gene, in terms of where the pope is on these things. he's not a pundit and doesn't get involved in these things typically but when you referenced, for example, europe, does this apply to those leaders who are delli ingtelling migrant come here? we're putting up the wall to deep you out." so this is where americans say wait a minute, look in your own backyard before you get involved in what's hamming here. >> i suspect that might have

been the larger meaning of what he was saying. >> tim alberta and john mccormack, thank you for being on the show this morning. still ahead, job openings for the mayor of charleston are mayor. the last time joe riley wasn't in charge at city hall was 1974, more than 40 years ago. we're going to meet the new mayor as his city gets caught up in the middle of an uncivil war, one day before the primaries. we'll be right back. [ applause ] my school reunion's coming fast. ♪

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of charleston, south carolina, john tech len berg. good to have you on board. >> good morning. >> mr. mayor, the first newly elected mayor since 1974. >> what? >> yes, sir. >> my goodness. congratulations. >> thank you very much. we've had over 40 years of joe, so glad to have you here. >> it's good to be here. you've never been in politics before. this is the first time you've actually held public office. >> yes, sir. it was a calling to serve and it's just an honor to serve my community and we have such a great city. glad to have you here. >> we're glad to be here. >> mike barnicle. >> is charleston different politically than other elements, other parts of south carolina? is it more liberal, more moderate? am i wrong? >> i think it's more moderate and a little more progressive, a

little more progressive, yes, sir. >> and the fact that you went to the berkley school of music in boston, i mean, do they hold that against you down here? >> no, sir. >> he's performing tomorrow night. >> he's playing tomorrow night. gene, south carolina native. >> well, we have a connection. i went to high school with fred tecklenburg who was your brother, is that right? >> that's right. and he lives here in charleston. i have have to get you together this week. >> absolutely. charleston is a city that has changed so much since i was a kid and it continues to change. how do you run any city that's changing in the way that charleston is? it's becoming more upscale, there is a continuing influx of people, a lot of them from the north. it's a different place. >> it's a different place, but we hold on to this terrific history that we have and an incredible sense of who is at

this pallet and unity among our people so that's a common core that we have. but yes, we have some challenges, challenges of success in that our infrastructure, our roadway systems and even our schools need improvement and help and we're going to be working on those things. >> i wanted to follow you were talking off air about this in your run, there is no republican or democrat way to pick up the trash. so exactly what's your plan to pick up the trash? i mean, what are you going to be doing, what are you going to bring to the city that they haven't seen? you talk about how progressive it is, how it's moving forward. what is that little oomph that you hope to bring as the new mayor. >> well, to modernize basic city services, to make them more efficient. but, you know, the main job of local government is public safety. over half of our budget is for police and fire protection. we want to make sure our people are safe and then provide good city services and we need to modernize those a little bit in charleston and we're working on

it. >> major john tecklenburg thank you so much for being on with us this morning. >> god bless. >> still ahead this morning, a one-word answer would have likely sufficed. hillary clinton was asked if she would never lie to the american people. we're going to play you her answer that seemed to complicate things. also ahead republican presidential candidate ben carson will join us here on set. "morning joe" is back in a moment. you both have a perfect driving record.

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good morning, everybody. it's friday, february 19th. we're live again from the market pavilion hotel in charleston, south carolina. tomorrow voters here in south carolina will go to the polls to pick their choice for the republican nominee for president. >> you know, mika, i feel sorry for the good people of south carolina. >> why? >> this is -- i've always found this to be one of the most spirited states in all the country, you would think that they would have a primary -- >> right. >> -- that reflected their fighting spirit. >> i think they got that. >> and yet -- and yet -- well, we have minor bit players getting involved in south carolina. >> seriously. >> the pope. >> chirping in. the pope. >> you actually knew it the moment that the pope and trump were in a twitter fight, we had just gone from strange to surreal. >> it is. >> if you can believe the pope is now involved in the trump battle. >> we'll get to that, but there

are things that are equally as crazy going on. >> no, i don't think so. >> we have legendary kplum nis mike barnicle, associated editor of the "washington post" msnbc political analyst eugene robinson, msnbc political an mist and former chairman of the republican national committee michael steele is with us, washington anchor katty kay and in columbia, south carolina, managing editor of boom berg politics mark halperin. a lot going on. one day to go before the polls open and we have new numbers in the republican race for south carolina. the new nbc "wall street journal" marist poll gives trump a 5 point lead, down from his 16 point advantage in the same poll a month ago. trump is at 28% to ted cruz's 23%, marco rubio a distant third at 15%, followed by jeb bush who has gained 4 points since last month and john kasich and ben carson are tied at 9. this despite trump maintaining a

strong lead in all other public polls. the latest american research group tracking poll gives trump a 12 point edge, 34% to rubio's 22 with kasich in third with 14 barrel ahead of cruz at 13, bush at 9 and carson at 4. >> and the fox news poll shows a slightly different story. trump at 32, cruz 19, rubio joe 15 and bush, carson and case i can tied at 6. >> let me go to you in columbia, south carolina. every poll we've seen and talked about over the past three or four days even post debate shows donald trump comfortably ahead by 10, 11, 12, sometimes 15 points. the two nbc polls, though, are the two outliers that suggest that this is a much closer race in south carolina and nationally. who do you think has it right, the nbc polls or every other poll that's been taken?

>> well, i mean, look, the nbc polls we always say is a great poll and the methodology sound. you just don't know. this is a huge primary, right? iowa, new hampshire were small events. i think the two big stories here tomorrow are just how big donald trump wins, i don't think anybody thinks he won't win. if he wins big as most of the polls indicate he goes into the next contest with a lot of momentum and there will be questions about senator cruz's ability to beat trump anywhere besides iowa, including in the southern contest. then the other big story down the line is the jeb bush/marco rubio story. people are writing jeb bush off, the nbc poll suggests that he is in striking distance to marco rubio. if he comes back and is ahead of marco rubio that has probably the most cataclysmic effect of what happened saturday in that rubio/bush contest. >> of course, the fox news poll that came out yesterday of course was -- was the 32 to 19. and it's interesting. that shows a battle between

rubio and trump one and two, but there are other polls that actually showcase sick that came out last night finishing a strong second. seems what we have heard across this state is a lot of what we heard up in new hampshire wherever we go, kasich. kasich. kasich. >> yes. >> people heard it out on the trail yesterday, it's almost identical to what we were saying before kasich's surprising finish in new hampshire. >> the front runner, though, is getting called out a little bit on some of his main points. he repeatedly has said he opposed the 2003 invasion of iraq, but this morning those claims are under a new scrutiny. buzzfeed news has unearthed a 2002 interview from the howard stern show where trump said he did support an invasion. here is part of that interview, followed by trump's reaction last night. >> we really don't know the enemy. >> i know. they' they' they're around somewhere.

>> the politicians don't want to tell you that. >> so are you for invading iraq? >> yeah, i guess so. you know, i wish it was -- i wish the first time it was done correctly. do you remember saying that? >> no, but, i mean, could have said that. nobody asked me -- i wasn't a politician, it was probably the first time anybody asked me that question. but by the time the war started that was -- >> this was 2002. >> by the time the war started i was against the war and there are articles -- i mean, there are headlines in 2003, 2004 that i was totally against the war and actually a couple people in your world in terms of the pundits said, you know, there's definite proof in 2003, 2004 trump was against this. >> the cnn forum last night which was interesting, we'll talk about that later. what do you make of his -- is that a flip-flop? what do you call that? >> it's donald trump. i mean, you have inconsistent statements all the way throughout, he's going to say, well, look to what i said right after the war began, but, gene, that obviously is different than what he said in the past. >> yeah. i mean, this is a central tenet

of trump's campaign, if there is such a thing as a central tenet of trump's campaign, he is all over the map, but he says he was opposed to the war, look it up. somebody looks it out. now, that's a fairly lukewarm endorsement of the war, frankly. well, i guess so. i was it was this, i was it was that. >> right. >> do i think it's going to hurt him substantially in this state? i don't. >> i think it's fascinating that serious reporters have spent so much time trying to figure out what he said and when he said it as if that's going to make chb of a difference. he said a couple of statements after the war, now this howard stern thing in 2002, you're right, a lukewarm support of the war. is it going to matter to voters at the end of the day? no. >> it might matter to his opponents, it might give them an attack line, but to voters did sh. >> good luck. >> the pope, though. when the pope -- >> okay. >> this is donald trump's latest

war of words and it's with none other -- >> yeah. >> -- than the pope. >> what is going on? now, this is what's happening. on a flight to rome after a six-day visit to mexico pope francis was asked about trump's plan to build a giant wall along the u.s./mexican border. the pontiff -- the pontiff said, a person only thinks about building walls wherever they may be and not building bridges is not christian. i would only say that this man is not christian if he has said things like that. >> okay. i'm sorry, let's just stop there. that would be a stunning comment, that man is not a christian if he said things like that, for any pope, for any preacher, for any minister, but, gene robinson, for a pope who we all adored and loved for saying -- asking the question, who am i to judge. for him to turn around and then judge a man's very christianity

because he supports borders with his country is unthinkable. >> well, you know, look, i'm not in the habit of slamming the holy father so i probably won't do that. >> well, we praised him for not being judgment amountel, should we not slam him for being judgmental. >> it seems out of character. it certainly seems out of character of what he has said all along and the whole attitude he has brought to the papacy which many people found totally refreshing, which is who am i to judge, everyone is welcome, we want to be an embracing church, we want -- you know, the whole idea of christianity is that kind of doesn't matter -- >> mike -- >> if we are not going to judge people -- if the pope is not going to judge people for what they do under a variety of circumstances, even when it goes

against church teachings, weren't you shocked yesterday when the pope just said, this man is not a christian if he supports a wall? >> or did you just smile quietly and say trump? >> first of all, when i first heard the story, when i first read the story i thought it was the onion. >> exactly. exactly. >> pope versus trump. secondly, i choose to think that the pope spoke as a matter of faith not as a matter of politics and i choose to think that he unartfully worded his statement in english. >> was he speaking in english, by the way? >> yes, i believe he was. i'm not sure. >> because if he wasn't i'd like to see -- >> there's no way -- donald trump can say anything he wants at this stage. we've seen this over and over and over again, but the injection of an element of faith

in this is upsetting. >> it's the freaking pope. >> it is the pope and katty, again, foreign the pope to say -- i've got to say politically there's just no question how the people of south carolina and the south are going to respond to a pope saying if you support stopping illegal immigrants from coming into the united states you are not a christian. that's going to cause a massive backlash and not for donald trump. john pedoritz basically said after the pope came out and attacked donald trump he said something like, wait...no...please...god help. i mean, this is bad for politicians that are not donald trump. >> right. and you would have to look much further on to states like pennsylvania or -- and new york where there are a quarter voters catholics to ohio where you've got a stronger catholic voting

community but not here in the south. this is not going to hurt donald trump down here. i'm going to agree with mike. i think actually if you look at the context of what the hope was saying, the pope was saying -- and we have talked about it -- this is a pope home braces inn exclusivity. >> right. >> and i think what the pope was impli'mplying was there a lack inclusivity in donald trump's message and that the wall is as much as anything a metaphorical -- >> politically, though, you've got to be careful with the same pope who was in cuba and there were people who had been tortured and jailed by castro, the castro regime who came up to try to hand him something in the pope mobile and they were beat be and dragged away and he just kept going and wouldn't even meet with these people. so his inn clue since let's just say is self-selected by him. and this is a pope -- check the transcripts -- we have praised repeatedly. >> that was the first time we criticized him.

>> trump had a swift and blunt response to the man who leads 1.2 billion catholics worldwide. take a listen. >> he actually said that maybe i'm not a good christian or something. it's unbelievable, which is really not a nice thing to say. if and when the vatican is attacked by isis -- you know, isis their primary -- very few people know this -- their primary goal is to get to the vatic vatican. that would be their ultimate trophy. i can promise you that the pope would have only wished and prayed that donald trump would have been president because this would not have happened. isis would have been eradicated unlike what is happening now with our all talk no action politicians. the pope was in mexico. the leadership -- oh, donald trump is a bad guy. he wants to build a wall. the pope only heard one side of the story and he didn't see the crime, the drug trafficking and the negative economic impact. for a religious leader to

question a person's faith is disgraceful. they're using the pope as a pawn and they should be ashamed of themselves. that's the mexican government. i think it's great that mexico is doing this. if you can get away with it you have to get away with it. how smart are they? they see the pope and they tell the pope bad things against me because i'm very, very strong for ill legal immigration. so they tell the pope trump is bad and now he says something negative about me. now it's probably going to be all over the world. who the hell cares? i don't care. we have to stop illegal immigration, we have to stop the massive crime. >> mark halperin you were actually in the room yesterday. how was the reaction to the crowd? do they seem to be on the pope's side or the donald's side? >> the strangest thing about it in a normal year if a presidential candidate in any state or context started going back at the pope there would be gasps in the room, instead it was like trump going after john

mccain or megyn kelly or anybody else. the reason he did it, we talked about it a million times, trump does not let attacks go unanswered. i think what the pope did was an attack on donald trump, he struck back hard. if he wins big that will only reinforce the myth and legend of donald trump taking on all comers. this story was going to be about in this state about marco rubio's endorsement from nikki haley and tim scott, traveling around, new face of the republican party. i think donald trump is in better shape with rubio and cruz as his rivals but kind of low down. a surging rubio is the biggest danger right now in some ways to donald trump and i think it had the effect of trump once again as he often does dominating the news leading up to the primary. >> michael, do you agree? everybody i've talked to out there believes that this actually is a big plus up for donald trump. >> it is a plus up for him. the fact that -- and i think mark hit it right on the head. here is a guy -- and this is what an mates his supporters so much and really draws the

attention of everyone else looking on -- here is a guy who will go into the well and stand firm. he is going to make his point, he doesn't care about your title, he doesn't care about your position. it's not so much an attack on him as he takes it on as an attack on everything behind me, all the people behind me. you're coming after us because if you're telling me that, you know, i'm not a christian because i want to protect my community from illegal immigrants then you need to tell that to them, too, and that's the sense that people get from this. >> wow. >> the pope was clearly over his skis on this one a little bit and donald trump used it to his advantage. still ahead on "morning joe" presidential candidate ben carson stops by the market here and bernie sanders takes his trolling of hillary clinton to a new level gently reminding her that she said she'd look into releasing the transcripts of paid speeches and "morning joe" is going to be live all weekend long from charleston. >> right here. >> we've got to watch the results come in. it's going to be amazing. we will be back here saturday and sunday morning at the market

pavilion hotel from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. eastern time. >> you get to sleep a couple extra hours for your "morning joe" on the weekend. >> weekend joe. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> you guys are smart staying down there all weekend, beautiful warm weather heading your way, it's cold in the northeast but that is also going to change this weekend. one more bitterly cold weekend with wind chills in the 20s, a few spots in the teens and single digits. >> heavy rain moving into northern california, light rain portland to seattle. your morning drive in the west umbrellas definitely needed, windshield wipers, a little snow at the highest of elevations. >> your weekend forecast, first things first, this is unusual, 70s and 80s all the way to kansas through missouri today. these temperatures are 20 degrees above average. this is april and it's beautiful weather into the southeast this weekend. even chicago has a chance of being 60 degrees. there is going to be a lot of snow being melted this weekend in the northern half of the country.

left take you into saturday. finally some of that warmth makes it to the east coast, 63 in d.c., gorgeous, 50 as far month as boston. notice there's really nothing too cold. 45 in minneapolis is down right balmy for this time of year. you'll take that. even into sunday. some rain will develop here in texas, arkansas, eventually spreading towards atlanta, maybe d.c. late in the day but most of the day on sunday is going to be nice and temperatures are going to continue to be unusually mild. i mean, 52 degrees in new york, average high supposed to be in the low 40s, even in the west, 87 in phoenix is a lot warmer than you typically should be this time of year. unlike last week where we had that huge cold shot of air there's no signs of any cold air, but next week the middle of the week we do have to watch a storm coming up the east coast. right now it looks mostly a rain event with some snow, but that would be tuesday/wednesday for anyone thinking ahead to their travel plans. leaving you with a shot of a gorgeous charleston on this friday morning. what a beautiful place. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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hillary clinton made some news last night on cbs when she was asked if she could match a famous declaration from a past democratic president about honesty. >> '76 jimmy carter famously said i will not lie to you. >> uh-huh. well, i have to tell you, i have tried in every way i know how literally from my years as a young lawyer all the way through my time as secretary of state to level with the american people. >> you talk about leveling with the american people. have you always told the truth? >> i've always tried to. always. always. >> some people are going to call that wiggle room that you just gave yourself.

always tried to. i mean, jimmy carter said i will never lie to you. >> you know, you're asking me to say have i ever -- i don't believe i ever have. i don't believe i ever have, i don't believe i ever will. i'm going to do the best i can to level with the american people. >> okay. with that as a backdrop, does anybody want to chime in? >> i do. just say i will never lie. move on. >> mika has a point here. >> thank you. >> maybe listening to it again, maybe hillary clinton is trying to be honest about the fact that sometimes you are not in possession of all of the facts and you may say something that is not 100% -- >> but that's not lying. if you don't know the facts that's not lying. you say i will never lie. >> -- then that would be -- >> mike barnicle, she took a very easy question and made it tough and look at the face.

>> no. no. >> i think you can sum up the problem that hillary clinton despite her credentials is having in this campaign is the same problem she had in 2008 and it's a line out of cool hand luke when he said what we have here is a failure to communicate. >> i cannot believe i'm on the other end of this. >> you look at facial expressions, again, this is an easy question. >> it is. >> it's an easy question and she looked like she was being interrogated by the fbi. >> you look into the camera and you say, i will never lie to the american people. you're running for president. and you want to instill that confidence in folks to know that you're going to be straight with them. i get your point, katty, that you don't have all the information. >> right. >> but that's not the same as lying because that's not based -- that's a lack of knowledge. it's not going out -- >> i'm telling you -- >> -- and saying you won't lie.

>> why does she make everything so difficult? >> jimmy carter, i will never life to you. >> and that will be the only president who you could actually believe. >> we would hope. >> there you go. >> any president that would run you would hope they would be able to answer that question. >> no. >> yes, i actually would. mika. >> then you're very naive. >> they may answer the question but whether they're telling the truth. >> she just told the truth. i can't believe i'm on the other end of this. i'm telling you i think there are a lot of problems with hillary clinton's campaign but that was a person, a human being who happened to be a woman which i really do think we do things differently doing her best to tell the truth to a question that she knew was a political bomb. >> mark halperin, mika and katty's comments aside, the men at least on the set think -- >> the naive men who lie well. >> yes, i will always tell the truth.

it just seems to me the fact that that became a contentious part of an interview with scott belly seems to underline hillary clinton's problem in her campaign that right now is in a bit of a free-fall, at least internally. >> a couple days ago i did an interview with bernie sanders, john hon man and i did and asked is it ever appropriate for a president to lie he paused and then he said no. i think the contrast is he was never a lawyer at the rose law firm who has been questioned in front of a grand jury and knows every word she ever says is scrutinized. there is an uncomfortable scene with scott that i think is a product of what she's been through, but i agree with mike, it's a reflection of her ability to communicate with the american people in a way that even her own advisors will say her biggest problem to become the next president is a question of whether people trust her to tell the truth, whether she's honest. i think that hasn't was unfortunately for her a reflection of her predicament and compounded her predicament.

coming up on "morning joe," hillary clinton says her campaign is about more than just free stuff as she creates new contrasts with bernie sanders. and clinton looks like she could be on her way to a big win in south carolina, but nevada could come down to a photo finish. plus ben carson is moments away. more "morning joe" live from charleston in just a moment. in new york state, we believe tomorrow starts today. all across the state the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, the lowest taxes in decades, and university partnerships, attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in utica, where a new kind of workforce is being trained. and in albany, the nanotechnology capital of the world. let us help grow your company's tomorrow, today at business.ny.gov staying in rhythm...

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i think he very possibly could be nominated and depending on how this all plays out i would take him seriously in terms of being able to win because he's appealing to a very, very -- he's appealing to fear. he's appealing to, you know, that old expression everybody asks me why is trump able to win in those 16 people, the expression is in the land of the blind the one-i had man is king. it's not who is running. so i'm not very good at prognosticating but i would not be surprised if he is the nominee. i would be surprised if he not elected. >> vice president joe biden with his thoughts on donald trump's candidacy. what did you make of what joe said? >> well, i think it's absolutely fascinating that it's in the mainstream of american political thought that now donald trump can one the republican

nomination. this is something that most people, other than you, thought impossible even three months ago, six months ago. and i must say you said it very early before anybody else said it, even the fact that you suggested that he could have a big impact on the race was scorned by almost all media outlets who have spent the last six to nine months suggesting that we were wrong about that. now that it is happening they are now mocking and ridiculing us because we got it right and suggested that somehow -- shower' too close to donald trump when that's just a lie. the fact of the matter is they're just angry because they have been wrong for nine months and we've been right. >> you know, it is also -- it's -- we saw it with joe klein yesterday, his head was about to explode here on the set. there are people that cannot get their heads around this. because we've known him on previous levels professionally we had a sense about this. it's not just scorn we're

getting, from some of our competitors we're getting a strange microscope as if we are incapable of asking donald trump tough questions, in the town hall you would see that we've asked him every question, we've pushed back. i don't agree with probably four out of six major things that he said, i thought they were horrible and i have said that and i will say it again and yet you have our competition holding a similar town hall and asking him if he likes pizza. are you kidding me? and what music you listen to. i don't remember doing that. >> last week it was the same exact thing last week with the town hall meeting that a competitor -- >> and then they have us doing articles. this is trump derangement syndrome. >> it is. >> it's not us. >> a competitor actually asks questions about how did you meet your wife? you know, what's it like being in first place, et cetera, et cetera. >> how do you relax? do you sleep? >> yeah, how much sleep do you get? and for some reason there are no articles written about this. "the washington post" actually after our town hall meeting the other night when i peppered him

with so many questions that i was actually attacked for interrupting too much actually said how dare they hold a town hall meeting where they don't ask him tough questions. it's a bunch of nonsense. >> and cnn does a piece on biden. >> here is the great thing, all right? we live in a world of transcripts. we live in a world of transcripts. look at the transcripts. the truth is out there. >> look at ours. >> and we asked tough questions, tougher questions certainly in the town hall meeting the other night than anybody else has asked him in any town hall. you can look at anderson cooper's last week. >> love him. and he -- it was a good town hall, by the way. >> i love anderson cooper. >> and he did a good job. >> we've been very positive about anderson cooper, but just because our competitors have hired media reporters who have actually planted this seed in other people's head that we're going easy on donald trump, that we asked tougher questions than our competitors ask who have the media writers and people have

the audacity to ask are we too close to donald trump. the answer is no, we're not. >> i hear from a lot of voters and a lot of interesting people and there's almost a form letter sort of template for the most common criticism i get, which is why doesn't the media hold politician x accountable for y. right? and i write back, well, what do you mean? because we ask the politician about this, we did follow-up questions, we point out that what x said or y said was a lie. what you're objecting to is the fact that the politician you don't like that -- >> you don't like the answer. >> his campaign didn't immediately collapse. >> that's what i said. i think it was eric of the "washington post" said, well, how dare you have a town hall meeting where you don't ask about his racist comments and his -- >> terrible comments. >> all these terrible comments.

by the way, cnn, he didn't write that article after cnn was asking what his favorite flavor of ice cream was and how he slept and what does he order when he goes through mcdonald's. we asked tough questions and it wasn't the first time that we ever interviewed him. and that's the frustration. we've asked the tough questions about muslims, we've asked the tough questions about mexicans, we've asked the tough questions about john mccain, but don't you get a sense, gene, from people who are complaining to you that if you don't stand on top of him with your knees on his chest and stab him in the side of the neck until he bleeds out it's never going to be enough. >> that was rather descriptive. >> i'm serious. >> it would not be gene. >> that would not be enough. >> unless it causes his support to completely go away. >> i think that's part of it. >> and here is the big lie, by the way -- >> what people are objecting to are the fact that he continues to do well. >> do your jobs, we'll do ours. let's play fair. >> here is the amazing thing and i do understand there's a great deal of resentment out there, we

are analysts, our job is to analyze and mika and i certainly understand you're really angry because we called this first. we understand you're humiliated because this is your job and while you were saying donald trump was a joke, we were saying that donald trump was actually going to have an impact on this race. we understand that while you said there was no way he would even get into the race mika was saying he could win the republican nomination. >> and he might not. >> he might not. we said he might. and people hated us for even saying he might. i know it's humiliating to you, i've done some things that have been really humiliating in my life, too. so, listen, i'm going to pray for you. we're in the bible belt here and we're going to pray you get through it. >> this has been fun. >> here is the thing, can i say all the people say amen. >> amen. >> let's pray for them. listen, you can be humiliated but look inward because, you know, my mom always told me in the swamps of northwest florida when you point a finger at a person you've got four fingers

pointing back at you. how about that? >> michael wanted to say something. >> michael, this is -- being serious, the problem is that we're seeing is you have media like joe klein that accuse donald trump of having a lizard brain. >> right. >> and for six to nine months they've been yelling he's not going to get in the race, he will never get in the race, if he gets in the race he's never going to win. his ceiling is 10, his ceiling is 15. we have been the only people with a rare exception of maybe one or two others out there that have said, no actually, he could actually win this thing, he may not, but he actually could. we were still getting hammered for that two months ago even suggesting that the data suggests willie, mika and me said that every day the data suggests he might just win this race. so that anger that for some reason we're facing for being right, for being analysts -- >> no, it's trump. there's something about trump they can't handle. >> they're angry that trump actually is going to win so now

they are going to attack people that were right about him. they're attacking his voters saying they're stumd, saying they're uneducated and god bless the fix who said be careful about calling donald trump's supporters stupid, they may be your next neighbor. >> you go back to the huff post at the very beginning of the campaign citing we are just going to put him on the entertain page, this can't be serious, this discounting of the man, his campaign, his effort and his voters and supporters. i think you're right, the difference was those who took the step back and said, this could be a transformative moment in politics. let's see if it plays out. giving it that much credit in the beginning would not have you in the space where you are now and trying to make up excuses for why you got it wrong. >> it's a very simple thing. you're supposed to cover the campaign. >> exactly. >> he is a legitimate candidate for the presidency. >> so that's what we do. >> you cover the campaign as it is, we could hold him down and pummel him and say how dare you,

or we can ask him tough questions like we did the other day, but there are people that are voting for donald trump, this man may be the next nominee of the republican party, you can like it, you can hate it, but our job is not to ring the life out of him and destroy his campaign, our job is to ask tough questions. i would just say again, i challenge media reporters that aren't employed by our competitors, i challenge media reporters to look at our town hall meeting two nights ago and look at cnn's town hall meeting with anderson cooper last week and just compare the questions. and guess what, this is what i love. we live in an era of transcripts. the transcripts don't lie. the words are on the pages. now, if you want to lie, you can keep making up your own narrative that's disconnected from reality, it's okay, because the truth is in the transcripts. why don't you read them? we'll be right back.

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bush thing, please clap. >> you said you can clap. >> you can clap. >> i think you didn't do it like this, please clap. >> no, i don't do that. >> it was more like a command. >> i have to say, you know, we have the most educated, most intelligent audience out there of any show but the two or three mouth breathers who heard what i just said and would suggest that i was knocking anderson cooper, i'm not knocking anderson cooper. >> oh, no. >> we've said anderson is one of the best out there, we've absolutely loved it and i think anderson ought to be able to ask personal questions. how did you meet your wife? >> every candidate. >> i think it's pretty fascinating stuff. >> i want to know that stuff. >> and i want to know that stuff and want to humanize the candidates, it doesn't mean that anderson is fine with a ban on all muslims or some other things that he has just said.

it's just this mindset is really unfortunately it's as sick as people who claim donald trump and others are sick. guess what, john wall ston said nobody went to elko, nevada. >> i found someone who did. >> one person. >> one person. >> msnbc's kasie hunt is joining us now from elko, nevada. >> it's a lonely place. >> casey, how is it going there? what you got? >> reporter: it's going -- this is actually the second time in my life i've been to elko, yefd da. mitt romney also came to elko, nevada and i was here four years ago. no, i mean, look, this is the northern corner of nevada and it says a lot about where the state of this race is that bernie sanders came up here, hillary clinton was here a little while ago. this is the area of the state where barack obama executed that strategy we talked a lot about at the time where he was able to wrack up delegates even though hillary clinton ultimately won the popular vote. you're seeing a little bit of that going on. i have to say watching the town

hall last night, flying out here on the plane with bernie sanders, you can feel the frustration ratcheting up on both sides. hillary clinton's campaign clearly frustrated that bernie sanders seems to be resonating so much despite what they see as this lack of accountability. you heard her talking about how she's not going to promise free stuff. when i talked to bernie sanders on the plane on the way out here i asked him about bill clinton and he absolutely laid into his record, talking about welfare reform, nafta, trade, in a very personal way that we haven't seen before, that of course in response to some of these new tactics that the clinton campaign is employing as they come under increasing pressure and could potentially lose to him here again, guys. >> all right. msnbc's kasie hunt. thank you so much. good to have you on. >> mike barnicle, let me ask you, the clintons believe that bernie sanders is held to a lower standard than them. it's the same complaints that he had in 2008 with barack obama. are the media tougher on hillary clinton than all of her

opponents? >> i think hillary clinton is tougher on herself than all of her opponents are. i mean, the clips we played earlier today, it's just so remindful of the baggage that she carries. i understand the level of paranoia that must be within her where she knows -- she knows that every word, every phrase she says we are going to look at it, we're going to slice and dice it try to diagram it. she's carrying a lot of bag damage. >> it's time now for business before the bell, let's check in with sara eisen live at the new york stock exchange. sara, what are you looking at? >> well, i've gotten a update on apple. story of the week, i know you guys have been talking about it every single morning. apple has granted three additional days by the court to respond to that order to unlock the encrypted iphone of one of the san bernardino killers. so now it has until february 26th to issue an official response. there is word that apple may actually use the first amendment, protection of free speech, in order to defend this.

the issue there would be whether computer code is actually an issue of free speech. either way this will be an epic legal showdown. obviously it that is moved into the court of public opinion with most of the silicon valley companies, google, twitter, facebook, all coming out in apple's defense. interestingly "the new york times" editorial board as well while many politicians including i know donald trump and the obama administration are defending that court order. it's one we will continue to watch and talk about as these legal proceedings move forward, guys. >> sara eisen, thank you very much for that. dr. ben carson is up next. stay with us. the future belongs to the fast. and to help you accelerate, we've created a new company... one totally focused on what's next for your business. the true partnership where people,technology and ideas push everyone forward. accelerating innovation. accelerating transformation.

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joining us now republican presidential candidate dr. ben carson. good to have you here. >> thank you. nice to be here. >> dr. carson how is the campaign going for you down here? this is more home field territory than new hampshire. >> it's warmer also. >> a lot. >> but, no we're having a good time. we big enthusiastic crowds, a lot of people saying to me, hang in there, we've got your back. we'll see. >> you know, we're asking a lot of these candidates are you going to stick around even if you don't do so well in south carolina. it seems to me the heart of your support is coming maybe here,

but also in the states that are ahead, in the so-called s.e.c. primary. >> we are getting a lot of communications from people in those states saying hang on until you get here, we've got you. and that's good. the nice thing for me is that my support comes from we the people and we the people are continuing to support me very strongly and they're saying, don't you dare even think about getting out of here because we need you because, you know, it's a nine-inning game. you don't call a game after the second or third inning. >> especially a lot of your supporters that i've talked to believe that the first inning of that game, iowa, was fixed, that it was rigged because ted cruz and all of his people spread lies about you dropping out of the race. how much of an impact do you think that had not only on iowa but your campaign moving forward and how do you recover from that? >> well, you know, the thing that hurt me the most about it was there were so many of our volunteers and particularly college students and they are

out there, you know, working their hearts out and then somebody tells them that i've dropped out and they're like, what? and they are in a state of shock. >> that had to make you angry. >> and they are not doing what they were out there to do now because they're like, oh, boy -- i just -- and i know that there are people who say, well, you know, they saw the report on cnn and, you know, cnn is certainly the beacon of all truth so -- >> well, do you -- what does that say to you about ted cruz? >> it just says that we probably see things differently. he said he didn't know anything about what his people were doing, certainly would have stopped it had he known, but, you know, he thinks that they're basically good people. >> so what do you think of the feud between donald trump and the pope?

you have said it would be hilarious if it weren't so sad. what do you -- >> well, i mean, it's sad that we get involved in these kinds of distractions. i mean, the pope obviously is a good person and tries to look out for everybody, but sometimes, you know, it's not appropriate, i think, for the pontiff to get involved in issues like that because of course every nation has the right to sovereignty. even the vatican has a right to sovereignty. >> i think you had a tweet that pertained to that. go ahead, mike. >> dr. carson, i truly admire your demeanor in the wake of everything that goes on around you in the course -- >> but. >> -- of a campaign. >> but. >> and i respect your views. >> there is no butt. >> here is the butt. >> oh, okay. >> why do you want to be president? >> it wasn't on my bucket list of things to do.

after a very long arduous career, 15,000 operations, i was looking forward to retirement, but i responded to all the people who were clamoring. every place i went to speak there were people who said run, ben, run. thousands upon thousands of petitions, i had thousands of petitiones in my office, could barrel get in there. i finally just said, look, lord, you know, all the pundits say you can't do this, it's impossible, and all the political establishment said forget about it. i said if you really want me to do this you have to open the doors because i'm certainly not going to kick them down and he opened the doors. very improbable things happened. so i will continue to walk through the doors as long as they remain open because i personally -- this country is about we the people, it's not about they the pundits, it's not about they the political class, it's about we the people and we need to be at the pinnacle with

the government there to support us. >> dr. carson, you are almost universally liked and respected among republicans across the country, even those who don't plan to vote for you. so if by some fluke you did not end up being the nominee, i know you are not going to make any endorsements, but is there any other candidate who has impressed you so favorably that you would be happy with that person? >> well, let me put it this way, i will support the nominee, whoever that individual happens to be, and if it happens to be me i will support me. >> a bold move. michael steel. >> real quick. >> you've got south carolina, you're going into the next phase of the primaries, how are you poised to make the kind of moves you're going to need to make to take a state, to win, to win somewhere? what is your strategy there? >> the strategy is to continue to talk about the things that are important to this country.

you know, the divisiveness that is destroying us, a house divided against itself cannot stand, the fiscal irresponsibility that is jeopardizing the future for our children and our failure to take a leadership position in the world. and also, you know, neglecting our critical infrastructures like the grid puts us at enormous risk particularly for cyber attacks. >> do a yes no. we have to go. >> let me ask you a question that was asked of hillary clinton and she couldn't answer it. so i will ask you yes/no. would you ever lie to the american people if you were president? >> i would much rather lose than lie. you know, i take my examples from the life of christ and i make no bones about the fact that i'm a christian and i have christian values. so that to me is much more important than any political ambition. >> dr. ben carson thank you very much. >> good luck. >> we will be right back here

tomorrow and sunday. we will be live from 8:00 to 10:00 eastern time right here in charleston. steve kornacki picks up coverage after a quick break. have a great day. we'll see you tomorrow. if your family outing is magical for all the wrong reasons. you may be muddling through allergies. try zyrtec® for powerful allergy relief. and zyrtec® is different than claritin®. because it starts working faster on the first day you take it. try zyrtec®. muddle no more®.

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