i'm proud to be jewish and proud of my heritage. >> thank you. senator bernie sanders. thank you all at the university of chicago for having us here. join me at 11:00 for a live post game analysis of the republican debate. that was great. that was the hardball college "t!rass band onset.lete with a chris matthews with democratic presidential candidate bernie sanders, live from the university of chicago's institute of politics. this is a live shot right now with that event having just wrapped up. i'm rachel maddow back in new york. we do not have a brass band. that was a remarkable event. there's a lot going on in news and politics tonight. on the political side, bryan sandoval has taken his name out of contention for the supreme

court nominee. a whole new raft of polling has come out. donald trump continues to dominate the field. the rest of the republican field has now started amongst themselves in earnest as to who ought the quit. on the democratic side of the race we did have this remarkable, long forum town hall with bernie sanders who is safeç to say back to being the underdog, but one who is fighting really hard and has a lot of resources and support on his side. bernie sanders taking questions from students at the university of chicago there.

this is a live shot of the room. it was fascinating. this event also started off with what i thought was a contentious and challenge and really interesting back and forth one-on-one between chris matthews and bernie sanders. chris matthews tried to pin senator sanders done on the feasibility of what he's campaigning on. we'll show you a couple of clips. the senator got applause for some of the answers. this will stick in terms of what people remember. watch this. >> you take office next january 20th and walk up to the senate ç and meet with the leadership and say i have a program here. i have to have government funded tuition for public universities. there's things i want done on social security to increase benefits. there's things i want done on health care so it can become medicare for life. you have strong positions.

mitch mcconnell looks at you and say forget about it. >> i say look out the window. there's a million young people out there who don't want to be in debt for half their life for the crime of going to college. if you want to antagonize those people and lose your job, if you don't want to lose your job you better start listening to what we have to say. that's the point. that's how change takes place. >> how do you squeeze a guy like him? >> it's not him. i know mitch. >> 60 senators. you need 60. >> let me tell you. >> you need 60. >> let me tell you absolutely, positively, 100%, if we rally young people to say germany, other countries have free tuition in public colleges and universities. (s& over this country. i have talked to kid, 30, 40, 50,000, $100,000 in debt paying a huge percentage of their income.

young people stand up and say we are sick and tired of it. we don't want to go in debt for our whole lives because we got a college education. we'll win that fight immediately. the trick is not to appeal to mitch mcconnell. it's to say take a look at your e-mails coming in. >> what evidence do you have this has worked for you? have you increased the turn out in these elections? have you as a senator been able to get 60 votes. have you ever been able to do this? you say i can get 60 -- >> i'm not the president. what i am saying. >> what evidence do you have that you can do it? >> the evidence is that's the only way change is enacted in this country. >> i agree with you. >> that's what the civil rights movement was about, the womens movement, the gay movement. >> is it sufficient? is it sufficient to get it done? >> how do you know?

the hardball college tour. an hour long format there. kacie has been joining the campaign and joy reid joins us. joy and kacie, it's great to have you live. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> good to see you. >> joy, let me start with you. i know you were able to watch this as it happened. the polls say senator sanders is not looking like he's going to

do well in south carolina where you are.ç looking at what he just did with chris, looking at who you he's campaigning right now, is he adapting? is he changing what he's doing in a way that's likely to better his chances in a place like south carolina in. >> it's interesting, literally before when i sat down to get miked up and ready to come on, ç

they are being asked about it as the senator continues to make this pitch that the way he's going to bring the political world around to his way of seeing thing s by prompting big voter turn out and getting a lot of people involved. is that issue getting under their skin. do they have a different answer

for that. how are they handling that and do they see that as a real issue for themselves? >> i think they saw some of that tonight.ç they still patiently said they would vote. there's a bit of quirk in this calendar coming up which is a lot of these kids and at the other universities voting in march will go on spring break. not only are they fighting against the uphill current of getting students to turn out to vote but they have to deal with that as well. when i pressed him, how if president obama doesn't represent getting this system completely changed, doesn't represent historic different turn out, then, of course, it's a challenge for bernie sanders to be able to prove that he's going to be able to do that. so far you're right. the turn out hasn't shown that.

one thing i would say is some of these bigger states will prove to be the first test of whether the crowds that bernie sanders is drawing can convert into votes. iowa and new hampshire a different case. smaller states where a lot of handshaking is typically done. tulsa, oklahoma, one of those bigger states. we'll see if the crowds make a difference. >> let me ask you, just your impression of the confidence level for the candidate and the campaign right now. do they feel confident? did i lose you? i lost kacie.ç i'll turn to joy. i never have two people at once. i never get to do this. joy, bonus question for you. joy, i want to ask you about something different, which is the univision washington post poll came out. it shows secretary clinton leading sanders among latinos by 30 points. her advantage is stronger with african-american voters. the advantage sanders has is a really big advantage with younger voters.

which is a better building block for states ahead. which would you rather have? >> this is another central conundrum he has. when i talk to people under 40, they love sanders. it's the over 50s when you vote. it's the churches.ç that's who is getting people out. these are constituencies that don't turn out at the youngest coherts. there's a big regional college basketball tournament that's

this weekend. yet another issue that the sanders campaign has to deal with when turning out their base voters. they might not be here. they might be in the neighboring state. there's so much more of complication with turning out the voters that love bernie sanders. they do love him. it just might not be enough of them. >> on the issue of the turn out and whether south carolina can make bernie sanders dreams come true.ç it's central to his theory of the case to why he's doing what he's doing and why he can be successful of it. we'll have the ahead of the democratic party in south

carolina joining us live tonight to talk about whether or not south carolina might sort of break the democratic party's turn out curse that they have had so far in first three states. if south carolina can turn out a large number of people, large raw number of people even if it's not just a huge number of young people or a huge number of specific people. i think democrats will be much more comfortable where they are looking ahead to the general election than the first three contests have left them. i have one more piece of sound i want to play from this back and forth between chris matthews and bernie sanders. there was some constructive conversation about bernie sanders as a young man and his own time at the university of chicago in the 1960s. a lot of policies in the room. between chris and bernie, thereç was a very contentious back and forth. i think some of this stuff will stick. watch.

>> you and i look at the world differently. you look at it inside the beltway. i'm not an inside the beltway guy. i'm an outside the beltway guy. >> the people that vote on taxes are inside the beltway. >> they will vote the right way when millions of people demand that they vote the right way. on this issue, i have no doubt, as president of the united states i can rally young people and their parents to say that if germany does it, countries around the world dallas/ft. worth, we can do it. >> can you bring -- >> it's wall street's time to help the middle class.ç

[ applause ] >> the next senate lead is probably chuck schumer of new york. can you deliver his vote? can you tell me one senator will follow you? tell me the votes. who will vote? is he going to vote with you? >> call him up. i don't know. >> you gave us one vote. you said i will give you 60. you can't give us one vote. your vote but you won't be in the senate anymore. >> chris, i didn't say i couldn't give you one vote. you're not catching on. i have to say this respectfully. you're a nice guy. you're missing the point. you're missing the point. if you look at politics today as

a zero sum total.ç if you're looking at 63% of the american people not voting. 80% of young people not voting. billionaires buying elections, you're right. i'm not looking at that world. >> how is that going to change the day you're in office? you won't have a supreme court on your side. you need 60 votes to get a supreme -- we're starting at the point of can you do what you say you'll do. >> you're right. look at it differently. you look at it inside the beltway. i'm not an inside the beltway guy. i'm an outside the beltway guy. chris saying how is that going to change the day you're in officer. i'm starting at the point of can you do what you're going to do. senator sanders same damn, right i can do what i say. you're looking at politics in the way it is today. i'm trying to change the face of american politics. i'm trying to change the face of

american politics. that is the essence of what bernie sanders is trying to do in his campaign. absolutely in his own words.ç he didn't volunteer it. it had to happen through that back and forth between the two of them with chris pushing him so hard on it. he got it. if you're a supporter of bernie sanders, that's absolutely music to your ears. if you're skeptical he can change face of american politics, then you hay like him, but you may think he can't get it done. that's the fight that's happening in this fascinating democratic primary, which is nothing like the republican primary because in the democratic primary, democratic voters like both their choices. they like both candidates. they say they have respect for both candidates. they have a difference of opinion between them as to whether or not one of them is practical or one of them is asking too much. that is why the democratic primary is a constructive thing because these two candidates are not destroying each other. they're not tearing each other down.

they are presenting two different ways of approaching the future.

there's some tragic breaking news out of kansas. there's multiple deaths after a mass workplace shooting. it happened in hestin, kansas. it's about 40 minutes of wichita.ç the first reports was a man was shooting at people from his vehicle near a manufacturing plant called excel industries. after those first reports came, further reports of gunfire inside that plant itself. turns out those were consecutive reports. there was just one shooter in this incident. witnesses say the gunman worked at the plant. he was carrying a rifle and handgun. moments ago the county sheriff announced more bad news. between four and seven people have been killed in this

incident including the shooter who was killed by law enforcements. agents from the fbi and atf have joined a complicated crime scene with lots of victims and crime scenes around in manufacturing plant. we'll keep you posted on this mass shooting as we learn more.

if you're a democrat looking at the race now, one of the things that may be causing you heartburn is turn out. turn out is down in all three democratic contests thus far compared to the last democratic race in 2008.

that's all happening at the same time that republican turn out is up, big. republicans have had four contests so far. they've had record voter turn out in all four states. now, say what you will about republican front-runner donald trump, he's driving republican voters to the polls in droves. compared to this time four years ago, donald trump has won way more votes than mitt romney has in the race. there's competing theories as to how worried democrats should be about this disparity between democrats and republicans in terms of voter turn out. it's a troubling argument for one candidate who has made the issue of his pitch. he said he can win the nomination and general election in november. he told chris matthews he could pass because of one thing.ç he said he can motivate huge numbers of disaffected

americans. he can get people who aren't in the process now to join to political process, participate, get involved and turn out an vote. this past hour senator sanders faced the question of why those big numbers aren't turning out so far in terms of voter turn out in the democratic primary. >> barack obama, in 2008, ran one of the great campaigns in the history of the united states of america. you and nobody else has ever heard me say that we're going to run a better campaign. in terms of voter turn out, it was not what obama did in 2008. in that election, you had john edwards and other candidates bringing in votes. the voter turn out in iowa was strong. in new hampshire, strong and nevada not strong, which is why we lost. our job is to make sure the young people come out, working class people come out to vote. >> yesterday, nbc's andrea mitchell pressed senator sanderç

on the same question. senator sanders said we should not say democratic turn out is down by comparing it to 2008. he said we should, instead, compare it to this year's turn out to what happened in the elections in the year 2000 and 2004. if you do that, comparing it to 2000 and 2004, it does look better. that's because they saw the lowest primary turn out. this year is better than that. they lost to the republicans.

the democratic party would love to see turn out numbers again :ujur' 2008. not like the years when the party lost. republicans have set the turn out records in all four states thus far. democrats have only voted in three states. the turn out has fallen short. that said, democrats will hold their fourth contest in two days this saturday in south carolina. will democrats break the curse in south carolina? will south carolina democrats break what has been a bad streak for the democratic party in turn out so far? i know just the person to ask. he joins us live, next.

i would by grateful for anything you can do between now and saturday. i will always remember south carolina and i'll be back to see

if we can turn south carolina a little more blue come november. >> hillary clinton this afternoon in florence, south carolina urging her supporters to get out to the polls. joining me is jamie harrison. mr. chairman, it's great to see you again. thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> we've been talking about this, you and i, on and offer for a little while now.ç the idea of turn out. the republicans at the republican south carolina primary had record turn out as

they had record turn out in every state they've been through. are the democrats going to do anything like that in south carolina on saturday? >> well, early indications are that we're going to do well. i don't know if we will reach the 2008 level. that's because 2008 was a special year particularly here in south carolina. you had barack obama on the path to be the first african-american president. you had hillary clinton on the path of being the first woman. you had john edwards won the primary in 2004, and was coming back for a second try. it was just a different dynamic. i wish i would bottle that and keep it for every four and eight years, but we can't. nonetheless, early indications are that we're going to do well. there's about 40,000 absentee ballots that have been cast that are at the registration office. comparing that to 2008, a total 35,000. that's something that is positive for us.ç we've been doing everything we can in this election as a party from newspaper ads to web ads. everything that we can to make sure we drive upturn out and educate voters on saturday is the say they can go and vote.

>> i don't know that you as the party chairman have to maintain a certain impartialiaty, but do you have any generic advice for both campaigns in terms of what they ought to do between now and saturday to get the most turn out they can get to reach the most voters, the turn people out. we've seen reporting that some of the innovative techniques for reaching black voters in south carolina have not been duplicated. there's not been campaigns targeting. do you have any advice? >> yeah, i think radio is an important. i know it sound like so 1980s, but still here in south carolina, running radio ads is very important. that morning drive in, the afternoon drive back home, is sç important in the african-american community. also, i think there's so much now on social media that you can do. there's a lot of targeting that's taking place.

these campaigns have been knocking on doors and making phone calls for months now. they both have done a good job of doing that. all i say is continue to push. continue to reach out to leaders in the churches to make sure they drive their vote out as well. that's all they can do at this point. >> you're going to have a big organizational challenge on your hands over the next couple of days. i hope you get some sleep. i hope you take care of yourself and check in with us on saturday night. good luck, sir. >> i will. thank you. >> thank a lot. jamie harrison. i think he's a rising star in the democratic party nationwide. an incredibly smart guy who is being so responsible and just handling the reigns well in state that's gotten a lot of spotlight on it. jamie harrison, remember that name. much more ahead.ç

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senator bernie sanders path to nomination has taken him all over this week. his path is gathering delegates from everywhere they might get them rather than trying to win

the next state. we have exclusive information coming up next. brand new data exclusive to us that gives insight into whether the strategy is working. that's exclusive. it's here next. stay with us.ç

back in january, i marvelled on the air about why republican candidate for president, donald trump, kept going to massachusetts to do big campahwn events. this is a question i legitimately have no answer for. i can not explain this. perhaps you can. we are 28 days away from the iowa caucuses. we're 36 days away from the new hampshire primary. can you spot what is weird about this video of folks waiting outside in the cold for a donald trump rally? what's weird is they are in neither of those two states i just mentioned. these folks waiting in the cold, this huge long line are in deep blue, tax-achussettts.

this is the third campaign event that donald trump has mounted in the state of massachusetts. that donald trump event was ginormous. 8,000 seats filled to capacity. more people lined up outside. it was like donald trump was bernie sanders. he kept turning out these big rallies, these big events in the great state of massachusetts.ç it did baffle me at the time when he was doing that ahead of iowa, ahead of new hampshire and the other states. now, now those huge rallies in massachusetts may be paying off for donald trump. we have the big exclusive news about that tonight. news you'll not hear anywhere else. we have the new polling numbers out of massachusetts from wbur

and they are fascinating. in the new wbur on the republican side, donald trump is leading in massachusetts by 21 points. wow. he's at 40% in the state. tied for second place in massachusetts are marco rubio and you thought i was going to say ted cruz. i'm not. marco rubio tied with john kasich for second place. what's interesting is marco rubio is racking up republican endorsements. the party seems to be settling on him as the best chance to be an anti-trump candidate, at least the press is settling on that. i think some of that has sloshed over into an argument that john kasich off to quit the race an ç get out of the way. clear the way. marco rubio and john kasich are polling in equal percentage of the vote in this brand new poll that's out. does marco rubio have that much better of a shot than beating. look at march 15th.

john kasich appears to have a shot at beating donald trump in ohio. while in marco rubio's home state, it should have rattled them down to their little high heeled boots. despite his resent surge, donald trump still, consistently, in rubio.florida poll beats marco in his home state of florida.

these new results showing john kasich and marco rubio in a tie. albeit one that's 21 points behind donald trump. that's going to rattle the republican race, or at least it ought to. why should john kasich quit given these numbers and not marco rubio? the state of the race on the democratic side, of course, is very different than what's going on with the republican field. hillary clinton won iowa by a fraction of 1%. absolutely solid for hillary clinton and devastating for bernie sanders. every poll in south carolina pretty consistently puts hillary clinton's lead above 20 points. one poll out from clemson university, but the clemson university poll put hillary clinton's lead at 50 points. so, knowing that, the bernie sanders campaign has been $ur)qq( his campaign >> we think we have a shot to win.

we think we have a shot to win in massachusetts, colorado and minnesota and in other states. we think that right here in the great state of massachusetts, we've got a real chance to win on super tuesday. we'll win some other states ooze well. massachusetts, has one of the largest states on super tuesday. has a whole lot of delegates. we hope to win here. we hope to win in a number of other states. >> massachusetts is the state with the, i think, the second most delegates at stake after texas in the all important contests of super tuesday. massachusetts is absolutely key to how the sanders campaign says how they plan to stay in the race and stay competitive after what's expected to be a bad night for them this south carolina. obviously, senator sanders expects to win in his home state of vermont there. he's leading by more than 70 points in the last polling out of vermont. his campaign expects to do well in the two caucus states on super tuesday, which are minnesota and colorado. the sanders campaign looks strong in both states. the other big surprise they say they plan on collecting on super tuesday is massachusetts. that's what makes this brand new

poll hot the presses, that's ç what makes this poll hugely important. look, look. according to wbur, bernie sanders is no longer leading in massachusetts. hillary clinton in the poll is at 49%. bernie sanders is at 44. there's not been a ton of polling in massachusetts thus far, but these new numbers are the first massachusetts polls to show hillary clinton leading in that state. if this poll is born out on tuesday, and secretary clinton wins in massachusetts, that would put the democratic presidential contest in a qualitatively different place than in this goes the other way. bernie sanders is counting on massachusetts. massachusetts has so many delegates, and demographically

it's so designed for a bernie sanders win. neighbor's his home state just as new hampshire does where he did so well. if he doesn't win massachusetts, senator sanders path gets way, way narrower than anybody previously imagined.ç joining us now is anthony brooks. thanks for joining us. appreciate having you here. >> rachel, it's my pleasure. thank you for having me. >> there hasn't been a ton of polling in the democratic race in massachusetts or the republican race in massachusetts thus far. should we take it to mean that massachusetts is hard to poll or one of the places that's hard to predict or just a matter that not many people have taken a look yet? >> yeah, i think it's the latter. there's so much attention leading up to the new hampshire primary and it's just poll after poll after poll looking at new hampshire, and now the attention is focusing on the states that follow new hampshire. as you suggested, this is one of the first polls of massachusetts. i think the last poll we had was back in november. it showed bernie sanders about 25 points behind hillary clinton. you can look at this poll and say it doesn't look so good for bernie sanders. the sanders people will spin it

and say, we'd like it to be better. we have come a long way since november. >> okay. one of the things that stuck out to me, which looked like good news for senator sanders in this poll, was his favorability ratings. >> i know, aren't they something?ç >> it was amazing. you look at elizabeth warren, you're polling democratics in massachusetts, she's got this incredible favorable number in this poll. bernie sanders has a higher favorable number than elizabeth warren. they have high numbers that's approaching that of the pope. >> i know. he's competing with president obama and the pope. those are something. hillary clinton has very high favorability ratings in this poll. this is something that struck me as well. i think you're referring to this a little while ago in your show. these two candidates are very, very popular among likely democratic primary voters. the favorability ratings are

particular high for bernie sanders. whether he can transfer those into a win on tuesday that remains to be seen. right now i think you have to give the advantage to hillary clinton. as you suggested, i think that'ç a big challenge. that's trouble for bernie sanders. massachusetts is a state he should do well in. it's a very white state. it's a very liberal state. it's just over the border from new hampshire where he romped a couple of weeks ago. if he can't do well in massachusetts, i think it makes this slog for delegates that he's engaged in a lot more difficult. >> anthony brooks, senior political recorder for wbur, thanks for being here. appreciate it. >> my pleasure. >> those numbers, the favorable numbers, watch for this. look at poll, watch for the favorable numbers. my prediction is we will continue to see very high

favorable numbers for both of those candidates from democratic voters in these forthcoming states. that means, the good news about that is no matter who gets the nomination, it won't be hard for the candidate to reach across to their opponents supporters and bring them on board for the general election. we'll see. they have a way of changing. democratic voters like both their candidates. we'll be right back.ç

i want to update you on that mass shooting we're getting word of in kansas. between four and seven people were killed in hesston, kansas. i know it's odd to be saying that range of people. between four and seven people killed. the number of injured is very high. another 20 to 30 people were injured in this mass shooting. that is a lot of people killed and injured. it was a single gunman. it happened at a manufacturing plant.ç the gunman was killed. he reportedly worked at the plant. he was killed by law enforcement in their response. it appears he began shooting at people along the streets and when he got to the workplace he continued firing in the parking lot and then inside the plant. so police say they have at least three crime scenes to go over, possibly four or five crime scenes. in addition to the local police, the fbi have joined this investigation.

the death toll somewhere between four and seven, 20 to 30 people hurt tonight in this small town in kansas. we'll keep you posted as we learn more.

sometimes in politics you get blindsided and then everybody is talked about can you run for president if you were born in canada or replacing justice scalia or whether a belt buckle can stop a stabbing.

sometimes issues sneak up on you. sometimes though you can see it coming and here is one that you can see coming if you know where to look.ç just ahead on the political calendar candidates are going to be competing in a state where the official flag looks like this. that on the left is the state flag of mississippi. it is the national flag of serbia. it's blue and white and red, but then to make it into the mississippi flag you add an inset in the upper left hand corner, you add the stars and bars, the symbol of the south wagging war against the united states in the mid 1800s over slavry. that's mississippi. now the south carolina state flag looks nothing like that. it has a tree and a moon.

it's like a cross between the pakistani flag and the flag of lebanon, but it's the pretty blue. it's an attractive flag. despite that being south carolina's nice state flag, nevertheless south carolina has been a huge source of politicalç controversy over the confederate flag. despite having a good flag of their own, they started to fly the confederate flag over the state capital basically as a middle finger to the civil rights movement and the effort to deseg great the south. the flag didn't go up because of the civil war, it went up as resistance to civil rights. after the 1960s it stayed up for decades. when south carolina became the first in the south presidential primary starting in the 1980s, the fact that the state was

still flying the confederate flag of the state capital, it became a racial issue in presidential politics, particularly on the republican side, famously in the fight between john mccain and george bush, john mccain said he found the flag offensive and called it a symbol of heritage and said his forefathers had fought under the flag.ç then after he lost the south carolina primary and he lost the presidential nomination to george w. bush he revisited that issue and said it had been a walkback and he wished he hadn't climbed back on what he said. the confederate flag supported by conservative white south carolina voters, that has been a racial drama for republican presidential contenders for decades now. this year, 2016, the republican presidential field was spared

that drama because south carolina governor nikki haley aseeded to say the flag down this past year after a white supremist used it as part of racist propaganda walked into a black church and killed members. so now the republican primary this year came and went from south carolina without that ç confederate flag becoming too big of an issue in the republican presidential campaign. so that's south carolina. that's how we usually expect for that issue to come up in the presidential years. but now there's mississippi. oh, mississippi, where the state flag still looks like this. after that horroric shooting at that church, the republicans of north carolina and maryland they made moves to stop issuing license plates with the flag and they took down the flag from the

capital grounds and walmart stopped selling merchandise and yet there's mississippi where the confederate flag is still sewn in to the state flag. would mississippi change that? would they drop it? no, they're not going to. they just decided. mississippi lawmakers talked about changing the flag, but this week mississippi gave up on that. they said they couldn't agree on how toúcaange their state flag, so mississippi is keeping it for the foreseeable future. so now this is a little bit of a test because now here come the presidential candidates. super tuesday is this upcoming

tuesday, march 1st. the mississippi primary happens on march 8th. >> it's friday, february 26, right now on "first look." the tenth gop debate proved to be a texas-sized slugfest. >> you have competition. >> now he repeating himself. >> no no no. i'm not repeating. no no. >> i watched him repeat himself five times four weeks ago. >> you repeated yourself five times four seconds ago. five things, everyone is dumb, he's going to make america great again, we're gonnaç win, win, win. >> please. >> you're all talk and no action. i mean, first of all this guy is a choke artist and this guy is a liar. >> and those were just the slower mom