excuse me. we are going to take those people and those people are going to be serviced by doctors and hospitals, we'll make great deals on it but we won't let them die if the streets. >> who pays for it? >> gentlemen, please -- >> wolf, it to clarify this. this is the republican debate because that attack about letting people die in the street if the government doesn't support them -- >> i'm having fun up here tonight, i have to tell you. >> thank you for the book, appreciate it. >> donald, relax. >> i'm relaxed. you're the basket case. don't get nervous. go ahead. >> there's nothing about you

that makes anyone nervous. >> you don't know what's happening. >> wolf, i'm goingç to ask my time not be deducted when he's yelling at me. >> take control. >> gentlemen, please. >> i get my answer. >> i want to move on. >> what i've seen up here. first of all, this guy is a choke artist and this guy is a liar. >> this guy always goes -- >> off combination of factors other than that, i rest my case. >> this is the typical thing he does. any debate about policy he goes right for the outrageous statement. >> you have to floor. >> do i get a response? >> you will but i promised governor kasich he would zblo respond. >> can somebody attack me, please? >>. [ cheers and applause ] >> that kind of sums up the night. "can somebody please attack me? please, please?" did you see that? >> look, it was like fruit salad, that's it. it was fruit salad. >> on fire. somebody poured gasoline on it and lit a match. good morning, everyone, it's friday, february 26. >> that was a mess.

>> it was a hot mess. >> that was a hot mess. at one point -- i tweeted, this is a disgrace because -- >> i don't know. >> even after that section, soon after thatç they were yelling, willie, at each other for about two minutes uninterrupted all three yelling at the same time. >> in that clip there, the frustrating thing was they're all talking over each other and nobody's like, stop, you talk, you talk. i thought that was an ugly part. i will say right from the beginning marco rubio did finally what everyone has been asking him to do. >> boom, boom, boom. >> he came to play and he fought. >> he came out fighting. donny deutsch is here as is senior political editor and white house correspondent for the huffington post, sam stein. in washington, republican pollster and columnist in at the washington examiner kristen soltis-anderson and in houston, managing editor for bloomberg politics mark halperin. we were in touch with him all night as he was analyzing it firsthand. >> give us your report card,

mark, really quickly. >> i gave marco rubio and donald trump a minuses. again, my grades are based on performance and how the performance affects the candidates' chances of being the nominee. i thought rubio's performance really most surprising to me was he'd never flinched. everyone else who's gone up against trump inç these debates has had moments where they flinched and trump has gotten the better of them. i don't think rubio took trump down but i think he showed a fortitude and people in rubio world are wondering why he didn't do this sooner. >> any impact -- i mean, bloomberg came out with polls that shows donald trump crushing everybody in the deep south. rubio showed two polls of him being crushed in florida where he's a sitting senator. the thuz chan does this change your mind? >> i don't think see any reason that this would separate any of donald trump supporters from him and he last night was his normal

self. he stayed on message. he had moments where he was under attack and he held his own and talked about what he wanted to talk about. i gave ted cruz and john kasich bs and ben carson a c plus. but rubio's performance, while strong, doesn't erase the huge gap he has not just in florida but in that poll of ours, the bloomberg politics poll you mentioned, where trump is in the southern states voting on tuesday way ahead even thoughç voters know he's not the most conservative american the race. >> we'll get to an incredible moment of the night but first we should let everyone know we flew down to south carolina yesterday, we have a big interview with hillary clinton to show you, extremely wide ranging, sat down with her with well over half an hour. >> fascinating. and she was very relaxed. she was what she had been in 2008 when she really went on that run. >> so that's coming up as well. but back to the debate, there was this moment where rubio demanded trump offer explanations for his health care

policies and then look what happened. >> you may not be aware of this, donald because you don't follow this closely. when they passed obamacare, they put a bailout fund in obamacare. all the lobbyists put a bailout fund in the law that would allow public money to be used, taxpayer money, to bail out companies when they lost money. we led the effort to wipe that out. what is your plan? i understand the lines around the state. this is no >> you don't know what it means. that is your problem. the biggest problem he's got is he doesn't know about the state. the reason we have no competition is because we have lines around the state and you have -- >> we already mentioned that as part of my plan, i no what that is. >> i think you don't know much. >> so the only thing is to get rid of the lines around the state. what is part -- >> what the lines around the state means, instead of having one insurance company taking care of new york or texas, you'll have many, they'll compete and it will be a

beautiful thing. [ applause ] >> so that's the only part of the plan? just the lines? the interstate competition. >> the nice part -- you have many different plans. you'll have dpe competition. >> now he's repeating himself. [ cheers and applause ] >> i watched him melt down on the stage like i've never seen anybody -- >> let's stay focused on substance. let's talk about your plan. >> you say the same thing, everyone's dumb, he'll make america great again -- >> senator rubio, please, please stop. >> and the lines around the state. every night.ç [ laughter ] >> it was a beautiful thing. >> that's america right there. >> what a difference between the democratic debates and the republican debates. where you actually talk about policy. >> the democratic debates are one on one now. and that really does help. >> i don't think anybody is paying attention to substantive issues there. i think clearly rubio, to his point, had a very, very strong

night. he was on the offensive. what i think he did is what i would do if i was advising anybody to go against trump is go at him as the businessman. go after trump university. go after you've hired immigrants, say you are a shady guy. shady, shady, shady: i don't think that makes aó; though. if you are a trump supporter watching that debate, you're lensing it through "that's my guy, he's strong, he was punching back." if you didn't like trump you still don't like him. had rubio started off that way, we would have a very different -- >> what about the devil's advocate. i agree with basically 99% of what you said but there's a devil's advocate of rubio's night which is that he spent all this time crafting an image as someone who is elevated, positive thinking, forward looking, and then toç get into the mud with trump might have hurt that brand. as a branding guy, what do you think? >> i don't think it hurt him. i think he just added a dimension. it was not okay this is a guy looking into the future, this was a guy who punched back and did not flinch. i was shocked. if you go against trump it's

tough to keep your footing but i thought that for the first time trump was in the positionover not even defending himself but at least having to swat those things away. i thought it was a strong night for rubio. i don't think it moves the point on the needle. >> here's the thing, though. i'm with mark halperin. if you look at the polls, look at the fact he's 20 points down in his home state, marco rubio, you look at how badly most of us think, other than donald trump, how badly most of us think donald trump did in south carolina. the south carolina debate was an absolute disaster. it was a nuclear meltdown -- >> so we thought. >> compared to last night. >> doesn't matter doesn't matter. >> that's why i say it doesn't matter. but this is why it matters to marco rubio. because rubio and cruz are not just fighting for 2016. marco rubio's losing in the next 11, 12, he's going to lose 15 primaries in a rowç he want's t going to even get to florida. but rubio and cruz have to prove to their donors that they are

worthy in 2016 to be in pole position. marco rubio can't hear over the next three years. marco, i'd give you money again, man, but you had the chance to fight trump and you never did. for marco rubio to be able to raise the money he needs to raise in 2016, he had to do what he did last night. i doubt it will move the polls for him that much, maybe a little bit. but here's another thing, too, willie, if it gets him ahead of ted cruz by instead of half a point like, say, one, two, three points he can go into 2020 going, you know what? i took on ted cruz, he had more money, he had a better porti organization and i beat cruz in -- then he starts naming the states. because these two too guys are young, they're in their mid-40s. how old's marco? >> 44, i think. >> wow. this will be incredible for him. >> so in if 2020 he'll be 48

years old. heç had to do this because we were saying, his donors were saying, the writers were saying why is he scared of donald trump? he proved last night -- even though it won't make a difference -- he's not scared of donald trump. and if he is going to be the future of the republican party -- which he's been called by "time" magazine -- he has to prove to be the future of the republican party by punching back. >> what party? that's the question. >> but if you talk to him, he's not giving up. he believes if he gets in a one on one with trump there's a way. you may disagree -- >> it's not that i don't disagree, it goes back to data, willie. it goes back to every super tuesday poll. he's down in all 11 super tuesday states, he'll probably lose 15 in a row and he has to go to florida where he's down by 20 points. if he's 0 for 15, 0 for 16, he doesn't run in florida. he may be governor in 18 and run for senate again. >> it brings up the point of why didn't they do this type of

attack against trump months and months ago. i couldn't help but think you remember 2008 hillary clinton the inevitable candidate and everyone is barack obama, go after her, inç the fall of 200. and it took actually chris dodd to go after her in that debate, on illegal -- undocumented citizens driver's licenses in new york for her to finally get the glean ripped off of her. so now you're wondering if they had done this back in september or october, would it have made a difference? >> no. >> you don't think so? >> no, i don't think so. >> trump was not coming -- >> i've got to say this again, donny. if any debate performance was going to hurt donald trump it would have been south carolina. it would have been south carolina. >> but that was too late. we went back to september. if you just for the first time out of the box were watching that -- >> but he's stronger since that debate. >> if you were watching that debate you would say "wow, rubio is the guy and trump's not a viable candidate." you're coming in now lensing it

through trump win-win-win. there's so much equity in him right now. there's so much built in gravitas. >> people are finishing his sentences for him. >> it's different. but if you watch last night fresh you would say rubio was the guy. butç too little too late and its not going to happen. >> we put up a story yesterday about how these campaigns didn't even put up research files to get trump over the summer because they assumed he would go away. last night was a research debate. they could have done that months and months ago had they prepared. >> sam makes an interesting point which is i think most people thought donald trump was a passing fever of some kind and they felt like we're not going to go through this, we're not going after him and by the time everybody woke up he was on his way -- >> i've never seen more people with who with more experience in journalism and politics sit here in shock and sit here kind of with their pants down because they didn't prepare. >> not literally. >> well, i hope not. >> they've come back on the

other side angry. >> and they're angry. >> very angry. >> mark halperin -- >> and kristen, we have to get kristen in. >> let's go back to the bloomberg polls again. give me a quick rundown of super tuesday southern states. talk about how massive donald trump's lead is there. >> he's leading in the horse race 2-1ç over rubio and kwlou a -- cruz who are basically tied. voters don't say he's most conservative but they still like him. they rank him on a range of issues, strength, electability. it shows the difficulty these candidates will have in defining him. as strong as rubio's performance was in some ways last night, the way you take someone down in a debate is to have a single frame to say here's why this person is dead. rubio threw the kitchen sinke d enin various different frames. this guy who has new york values, who isn't seen as the most conservative is still the

dominant figure. so a lot of what they went after him last night on is he's too liberal. well, that's been priced into the stock for voters again the most conservative part of the country. the other thing in our poll is one on one. we tested trump against rubio, trump against cruz, the sort of conventional wisdom was well, if only they could get him one on one and trump leads both rubio and cruz one on one, suggesting that even if the field winnowed before tuesday trump would be in a strong position. >> kristen,ç we've got donald trump winning the last three races. he's getting momentum behind him and he's going into the area that we have said around the table would be the strongest. he's a jacksonian. he seems to be a jacksonian and he's going into the heart of sort of jacksonian democracy in the deep, deep south. and it's going to be very hard for marco rubio or ted cruz or john kasich or ben carson or anybody to get those people to turn away from trump.

>> i think those two-way ballot tests that mark just talked about are probably some of the most interesting of the questions in that survey because the idea here is that folks have been saying, look, you'll have to have either marco rubio or ted cruz step aside, make way for the other and that's the only way you take down trump at this point. and i think what's so fascinating about last night's debate performance is that you may not have a lot of trump hard core supporters turning away from him. i agree. if you like trump, you probably still like him after last night's debate. what's responsibility that aç t of polls have shown if a cruz drops out of the race some of those cruz folks go to trump instead of to rubio. if rubio drops out, some of those folks go to trump instead of cruz. last night's debate performance may have prevented people from switching from a rubio and cruz to a trump. if you were looking for someone who projects competence, if you were looking for somebody who projects i really can win, i think that's what made last night's debate so interesting.

you may not have pulled away people who already like trump but you may have said, look, if you don't like me at least vote for the other guy who is not trump. i think that's whatbi making things interesting. if you look at the polls in texas, the last two polls i've seen come out of texas, one had cruz up by 15 but one only hand cruz up by one. if cruz wins texas by one or loses texas, that's a big problem. >> trump is getting the nomination. everybody has to grow up and deal with that. [ laughter ] it's jeb bush -- >> says the man who said we needed a trump ban on the show three months ago. >> well what i'm saying -- >> you're growingç up. >> no, no. you saw what the democrats' play book is going to be and you paint one image -- trump is a lying sleaze. just put him on the defensive. if i'm advising trump, i'd say

that's what you have to watch out for. if i'm advising hillary i say that's straight where you go. >> and rubio did all those things last night. >> too little too late. >> if you want to know to the story of trump's success, go to the second line of the bloomberg poll. do you believe trump is a committed christian? 12%. yet he won evangelicals in south carolina. he won evangelicals in nevada. people don't really care about the specifics of who he is. they love his style, they love his brand. >> that's the way you cut into the style and brand. >> that's the case. it's the same thing with mark. mark halperin, you're saying they know he's liberal, that he's the most liberal candidate in the most conservative part of the country, they're still voting for him and i want to show you in a very, veryç conservative state in the republican primary marco rubio's home state of florida. this kind of goes -- follows up on what kristen was saying. everybody assumed when jeb bush jumped out of the race that all of his numbers were going to marco rubio. well, they didn't. donald trump got a lot of them.

he's at 44% in rubio's home state where he's a sitting senator. that's a quinnipiac poll. i think they dismissed that poll but there's also a pp poll that came out yesterday that actually had trump at 45%. so real uphill climb for marco rubio, despite a really good debate performance last night and i would be shocked if he went into the florida primary without a win and didn't drop out of the race to maintain his viability. you can't lose your home state by 20 points. >> we have a lot to get to. we had such an incredible day -- incredibly long day yesterday. back from washington, did the show, went down to south carolina, incredible interview with hillary clinton. >> was she asking for me? >> she was not asking for you aç all. >> she's coy that way. >> security was. >> it was extremely wide-ranging. it went from fun to dead serious. and then speaking of great

performances, your band last night at prohibition, you have incredible musicians. >> they're great. >> people need to come see this. >> it's an awesome band. >> i don't know how you did that. >> what's the cover charge? why didn't you ask me? >> it's free but for you it's like $100. >> you were out performing with a nine-piece band. >> why didn't you ask me to play the triangle. >> can you bring your triangle next thursday? >> do they serve food? >> it was -- you guys are good. >> it was packed, it was kind of crazy. >> you can watch it on periscope. >> they're incredible musicians. >> how many them? >> nine, right? >> you have a horn section -- >> nine. >> brass, backup. >> it used to be like the police. we had basist, guitarist, drummer. and then i went to see steely dan at the beacon and now we have 28 people. i'm like "i need horns, i need background singers." our interview with hillary clinton is ahead and moreç debe highlights. so still ahead on "morning

joe" -- >> it is painful, it's hurtful to have people say "oh, i don't trust her, i don't know why she's doing it." and it suddenly struck me, well, you know, maybe there is this underlying question like is she doing it for herself? or is she really in it for us? >> we're going to have the first part of our revealing interview with democratic presidential candidate hillary clinton. "morning joe" continues in just a moment. welcome to opportunity's knocking, where self-proclaimed financial superstars pitch you investment opportunities. i've got a fantastic deal for you- gold! with the right pool of investors, there's a lot of money to be made. but first, investors must ask the right questions and use the smartcheck challenge to make the right decisions. you're not even registered; i'm done with you! i can...i can... savvy investors check their financial pro's background by visiting smartcheck.gov

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tomorrow in south carolina, hillary clinton looks to notch her third victory of the democratic presidential primary race and we sat down with her yesterday in that state for a wide-ranging conversation about the issues and her candidacy. >> as you know, on our show we sort of speak our mind, for better or worse sometimes for candidates. for you sometimes laugh. >> you made her laugh right at the top. i knew it. >> i had to say over the past couple days we have said for better that you seem to be a different candidate since nevada. in fact, the second you got up

on stage and started speaking in nevada reminded me of the hillary clinton from 2008. what was different? what is different now? >> that's a great observation. you know, i don't know. i think it does take me a little bit longer to get into the rhythm of campaigning, to feel what i'm doing and how it's working and i felt just really ç good. we hit our stride in nevada. i felt like not only was the campaign and the message of breaking all barriers really beginning to take hold and people could understand it, but i just felt that we were on the upward trajectory. so maybe that's what you were seeing. >> you also said something, too, in abintn interview, i'm not su which one it was, but we've been talking about how calculating you were and how it seems to be not the person that we know personally but you said in an interview earlier this week that your biggest challenge was convincing voters that you were

not interested in what was best for you, you had58iñi to convin them that you were doing this for them. >> right. >> talk about that. and the misconceptions that you may feel you've been fighting. >> i have to -- this has kind of come to me over the last months because, you know, it is painful. it's hurtful to have people say "oh, we don't trust her, don't know why she's doing it. it suddenly struck me, well, maybe there is this underlying question, like, is she doinghi for herself or is she really in it for us? and i've always thought of myself as being service oriented. i always believed that i was in it for trying to help people get a better shot in life, even the odds. and i think i'm going to keep reaching out, talking about what i've done, what i will do and making the case that people can count on me because they always have in the past. >> somebody else said something

funny when i said "she just seems different. and she seemed different this week, she's more relaxed, she's what we've been saying all along we should be and it was surprising." and i think it was halperin who said "the clintons have a 30-year history of near-death experiences and resurrection." >>. [ laughter ] >> so why don't you make it easy on yourself and forget the lazarus routine and make it easy for your friends and supporters. >> let's do that from now on. i like that alternative. that's an interesting observation. there mayç be some truth to it. part of it is that i always feel like i am carrying a big weight of responsibility for so many people. i really do have this sense that a lot of people are counting on me, a lot of people are expecting know help them. a lot of people are really in my corner. i think that does sometimes get

me a little tensed up to be honest. i think i'm afflicted by the responsibility gene. >> ever since we've been getting ready for the interview and mika was writing notes and everything, i was sitting here talking. >> how a man prepares versus -- >> and mika commented man versus me fretting over every note and carrying notes. she asked me "do you want notes?" and i was like "nah." do you ever look at yo you are husband and how he did it and go "it's not fair!" >> i think mika and i understand this because still today when you are a high-achieving woman, particularly one in the public eye, you really are just expected to qurform at a higher level all the time. and there are not enough experiences with different styles or different approaches that women make -- my goodness, there's a million different ways you can be successful, you can communicate and all the rest of it and, look, i'm not telling

you anything you don't know. i am not a natural politician like bill clinton or barack obama so for me it came through the root of service, it came from my deep conviction that, you know, we had to make sure that this country we all love kept producing opportunities for everybody and i see that narrowing and i see people being left out and it upsets me. so i invest a lot of energy and a lot of my own emotion into what i do and i think sometimes instead of that being as easy to understand as i would like it to be, it sometimes is a little bit nerve-wracking. >> right. >> and we saw that with jeb, a guy who knew policy forward and backwards but in 2016 it justç didn't seem to be interpreted as well on the campaign trail. >> so you have a lot of different branding and messages out there, you have donald trump "make america great again." >> right.

>> bernie sanders, "the system is rigged." >> what is your message simply? >> break down the barriers so america and americans live up to their potential. that is what i care about, that's what i've done, that's what i'm talking about, i feel very comfortable talking about that. it hit me. i care deeply about the economic barriers. i think i have the best idea about how to help create jobs and get incomes rising and all the other things we have to do to get the economy growing and get it fairer. but economic barriers are not the only things that hold people back. we were just talking about, you know, some of the gender-related issues that hold women back. there's race, there's lgbt discrimination, there's a lot of reasons why people feel somehow pushed down or left behind. so using this barriers metaphor really works for me because it helps me organize everything i'm talking about, knocking down barriers to quality health, to good education: you know, we're in a county here where we're doing this interview and it's

one of the i-95 counties that there was a big documentary saying it was the corridor of shame because the schools are so poor, they're falling down, kids are not being educated. they don't even have enough teachers. that's a big barrier. no matter how loving your family might be, you don't have those opportunities, that's going to hold you back. so that's how i now think about what i want to do as president and it really helps me maybe do a better job of conveying that. >> so let me then ask you. you express concern about being held to a different standard as it pertains to the wall street speeches and you said you would release the transcripts when the republicans do. but isn't it more important perhaps to be transparent to democratic voters about what you said to big banks behind closed doors? >> well, i think i have been transparent. i have a record. i'm not coming to this for the first time. people can go back, they can look at what i said and what i did when i was a senator.

i'm the one who called out wall street. >> so where did you say that? where did you say that? >> back in december of 2007. i even ran an ad in the '08 campaign, it was in '07, warning about the mortgage crash and so i'm on record. i have gone after these guys, i have been pointing fingers at them, i've been introducing legislation. so people who want to know about my public record, it there's to see. people who want to know what i will do as president, everybody says who's looked at it i have the best plan to rein in wall street, to prevent them from ever doing into what they did to us before. and i want to move toward a level playing field. as i've said, happy to do it when everybody, including the republicans, does it. >> but if reporters are looking for -- don't you want to get ahead of it before somebody gets their hands on these transcripts? >> no, i really don't.

because i want people to look at my record. people are treating me sometimes as though i just decided to run for president. i have been on the record on if you look at what caused the great recession, a bill he voted for in 2000 had a greater impact than most of the talk that we're now doing. so let's get everybody out on the same field. i feel like i don't mind being responsive. i don't mind answering questions but at some point i want everybody to have to answer. >> i respect that call. can you assure the american people that you didn't say anything in those speeches that would undermine your promise to

be tough on wall street. >> absolutely. absolutely. and besides, i'm on the public record. i've told them what i've going to do. i've said i'm going to go after big banks that pose a systemic risk. hold me accountable for that. i'll do that. >> so çlet's talk about that. one of the chief complaints that a lot of supreme is after the bailout, the banks that were too big to fail got even bigger. haven't they gotten even bigger. >> i think they have. >> whether it's bank of america or j.p. morgan. any of these big banks, if they went down tomorrow, we'd all be on the line again for, that right? >> well, no, because now we're not going to bail them out. they have gotten bigger but they've also been under much closer scrutiny. >> so if bank of america came to you -- and i'm going to get in big trouble from friends at bank of america. we found out what about to lehman brothers was going to happen tmqñ bank of america you third week in office and they said "listen, this is very simple, you let us go down, atm machines across america are

going to shut down. our people aren't going to get their money. you have to save us or the economy collapses." what do you say to them. >> i say under dodd-frank we have an orderly unwinding of your bank because you are now posing a systemic risk. >> but madam president, the markets will absolutely collapse. look how badly they collapsed after lehman brothers. we need you to step in now or -"a're going to be responsible what do you tell them? >> we'll do in the an orderly way so there won't be surprises. the reason we passed dodd-frank was to make it clear no bank is too big to fail, no executive too powerful to jail and we have to keep faith with the american people. i'm sorry that you've made bad decisions, but we're going to have to unwind you and, yes, break you up. and parts of you will be very successful going forward and other parts won't and if there is any accountability that needs to be imposed on individual decisions we will also follow through on that.

>> so you can make the guarantee today that if you're president of the united states under no circumstances will those there be a taxpayer-funded bailout of these big banks. >> if they pose a systemic risk, we've got the process under dodd-frank now. the tools have been provided by. we have to follow through on that. and the banks have to know we will follow through. >> that's a guarantee of no taxpayer bailout. >> no, because that's what we tried to fix in dodd-frank and too, though, j this. i want to go further because if you really look at what happened in '07/'08 and you mentioned lehman brothers, it was investment banks like lehman brothers, it was insurance companies like aig, mortgage companies like countrywide. so the only culprits with not just the banks, there were others as well and i'm the only one with a plan who says hey, guys, dodd-frank is great, it gives us the foundation, it doesn't go far enough. we need to look at other

entities that pose systemic risks as well. >> a champion on these issues is elizabeth warren. do you see a role for her in your campaign. >> this is hillary clinton you can feel my pain. >> i have the highest regard for her. i think she's doing an amazing job. she signed a letter two years ago urging me to run for president and we consult regularly. my staffs consult regularly with her staff so i am very much interested in what she's doing and what she thinks we should be doing. >> will you consider her as vice president. that's mika's follow up president. >> well, i can't get presumptuo presumptuous. i have to win the no'q%=9 and then i'll take a deep breath and maybe get a good night's sleep and then start thinking about that important decision. >> i wasn't going to ask that, but okay. >> you're glad i did. >> there's more. >> there's a lot more. >> much more. i thought it was fascinating. you want to go to mark halperin. >> no, mark halperin, what were your takeaways from an interview

where i thought hillary clinton was as relaxed as i've seen her, bluntly, in eight years. >> i'm getting so many e-mails about this interview. >> from her victory speech in las vegas on saturday to that interview to a performance on the stump lately, she's in as good a groove as i have seener in a candidate in any race she's run right now and part of that is her relief that she went from being under the gun to being relaxed. you guys asked her tough questions. she never once seemed rattled or off her game. she seemed most of all conversational and when she's conversational, anyone who's had a conversation with her knows she's engaging well beyond what people normally think of her as. >> i would echo that. you can see a weight lifted off her after nevada. after a razor thin win in çiow getting blown out in new hampshire, she's relieved she won there. there's an op-ed in the "new york times" calling for her to release the trimtease the trans the case it makes people think she's hiding something by stonewalling so it was

interesting to see her answer your question. >> she said there's nothing in those speeches that would understood undermine her message and also her promises to be tough on wall street and big banks. >> let's see them. >> what was compelling, though, her argument -- of course i'm not going to say i agree with it because yesterday i said that republicans shouldn't release -- she shouldn't release hers until republicans release theirs and everybody went crazy everybody saying "you're wrong, you're wrong." but she had a really compelling argument. you guys are worried about speeches. i've got a 30-year public record. look at my public record. if you think those speeches have influenced how i behaved in public service, look at my public service. judge me by my public service. i know that's not going to be good enough for the critics. >> it is a good answer. when people giveç speeches, if you talk to the truckers you go "truckers are the backbone of this country." >> let me tell you something, trucker people, they're the best

people in the world. >> thank you. it's a speech. >> the bigger is should she have done them? >> don't you want to know what she says in private? i feel like that can offer a window into what she thinks. >> that's what i think. >> i think at the end of the day i think she's made two compelling arguments and i stand alone in the world. >> i agree with you. next hour -- >> number one is i'll release my transcripts when the republicans release their transcripts. nobody agrees with me on that. >> i agree. >> number two, look at my public works. look at my public service, judge me by that. next hour, there are our sit down with hillary clinton, including her candid thoughts on donald trump. >> andrew ross sorkin -- also coming up, tom brokaw, chucked to, mary kissel of the "wall street journal" joins the table. >> we like mary. she goeets mean. seven.

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up next, a lot of establishment republicans are not enjoying watching this presidential race play out. put lindsey graham at the top of that list. >> oh, my god! [ laughter ] >> he's angry. >> his speech was good. >> the senator from south carolina turned up the heat -- way up. we'll hear from him.

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experience. if you don't vote, that's coming back in 2017. [ laughter ] but look how far you've come. the most dishonest person in america is a woman. [ laughter ] who's about to be president. how could that be? my party has gone bat [ bleep ] crazy. [ cheers and applause ] if we don't win this election, when are we ever going to win one? that's not meant to be funny. a good republican would defend ted cruz after tonight. that ain't happening. [ laughter ] if you kill ted cruz on the floorç of the senate and the trial was in the senate nobody could convict you. [ laughter ] >> oh, my gosh! >> that's awful! it's awful! >> that's the real lindsey,

though, right? >> and the party is definitely -- crazy. it is. >> a little crazy. >> what's going on there? that was senator lindsey graham roasting the presidential field last night in washington. joining us now, a member of the "wall street journal" editorial board and host of "opinion journal" on "wall street journal" live, mary kissel. who i just made feel very uncomfortable. i never thought i could, you're so confident. >> sour confident. who won the debate last night? what was your take away? >> my take away is that rubio and cruz realize they can't run for second place. donald trump is the front-runner and they finally woke up and tag teamed him, essentially. >> marco can lift the hammer. he can lift the hammer. >> marco came ready to fight and he raised some pretty serious questions about trump. i think the most effective exchange was the health care exchange where, you know, the emperor had no2clothes there. he exposed the fact that trump doesn't have a health care plan and the second effective exchange was on israel where cruz pointed out that

essentially trump's policy is hillary's policy and rubio said, look, you can't be neutral. you can't negotiate with somebody who's negotiating in bad faith. >> the only problem is that a lot of his policies do lean to the left a little bit and nobody seems to care in some of the more conservative states so far. >> when we had trump in our town hall meeting, i was surprised when he talked about being neutral between israel and the palestinians. he said he was going to do that because he wanted to be an honest broker and bring peace to the region. that with planned parenthood and everything else. republican voters know, republican voters don't seem to care. >> trump last night did a bunch of bold things that a normal republican candidate would be afraid to do. he said everyone in the country should have health care. he defended planned parenthood but said he was against abortion and wanted to defund them but defended their work. he said again what you said on israel and he also was, you know, open to the notion of being a more inclusive çfigure.

i thought trump -- he criticized hugh hewitt for bad ratings. [ laughter ] he took risks. maybe thinking about a general election, but all of them things -- no other republican candidate would insult hugh hewitt on that stage. trump showed boldness and strength and some positions will help him if he's the nominee win a general election. >> mary, is it too little too late? a lot of people watched marco rubio, he was very effective, well prepared stylistically, good at going after donald trump and people wonder why that didn't happen six months ago. is there any stopping trump this point forward? >> we'll see. but they didn't let trump get away with his usual word salad of nonsense last night. you know, one of the reasons why voters have started to get more comfortable with donald trump is because they didn't perceive an alternative. but look at the laundry list that rubio put forward last night. he won't release his tax returns. he's hired illegals. we don't know anything about his income. he's bankrupted four companies.

he's been a hypocrite on manufacturing. he's close to hillary on foreign policy. these are very serious problems with the trump campaign and it'ç about time that rubio and cruz pointed them out. >> is it too late though? >> we don't know, we haven't had super tuesday yet. that's the test. but i think that rubio and cruz did what they had to do last night. >> they did what they have to do but couldn't have have lifted the hammer from the get go? >> i don't think they took trump seriously. i don't think anybody took trump seriously. >> isn't that the big mistake everybody made? from the establishment in washington to the establishment in the media, the laughing from the get go actually made him stronger. if you think about it, if you think about it, every candid-íe should be taken seriously. i'm thinking herman cain and all these others were taken seriously. >> i don't know. i didn't take herman cain too seriously. the 999 plan? >> but did you laugh in his face? >> no, but they should have taken him on on the substance. jeb bush's mistake -- >> as a serious candidate.

>> jeb bush took him on personally. he attacked trump's character. >> so did the media. >> and they finally attacked substance last night. >> does substance matter in 2016? >> i think it matters. jeb bush had the most substance. >> but he couldn'tç communicat it. >> of any candidate in the field. >> but he couldn't communicate. it doesn't matter if you can't get the message across. >> he could communicate but his communication wasn't insults or screaming or an in your face display -- >> well, that's not effective communication. >> it's been tremendously -- i think substance does not -- if substance matters we wouldn't be where we were. what matter zblshs s -- >> no, that's not true. last night was the first night they made the argument. >> this is an angry. us will. there's a guy up there saying "i'm mad as hell." >> the exit polls show 13% to 15% of voters care about immigration. that's what he's running on. and look at the dislike --

>> what he's running on is us versus them, that should be the point. that's not the substance. >> mark halperin, we love mary. she's so great. can you do us a favor? we don't want to torture mary. could you describe the most, let's say, troubling parts of the bloomberg poll of the deep south yesterdayç for a "wall street journal" editorial page writer? >> well, the reality is the polls suggest that in the super tuesday states trump is leading but strong despite voters not thinking he's the most conservative and doing very well head-to-head against the other candidates. trump has a lot of strength and for people like mary who would like to see trump stopped, the question is how can you stop him, can you stop him if he wins one or every state on tuesday? >> was this a poll after the debate or before? >> if you look at these numbers is he a committed christian? only 12% say he is but he's swamping everybody among

evangelicals. only one in five voters think he's conservative. everybody's saying "we're going to prove he's not conservative." so the question is why. >> well, i think there's a deep, deep cynicism about politics and i think voters aren't distinguishing between these candidates on policy. >> could you and your deep cynicism please stay here? coming up on "morning joe," one of the best headlines -- >> is mary not great? >> she's the best. when i was at the johns hopkins event, i thoughtshe went to hop" >> that's explains why. "robot rubio turns terminator." that's a good tease. someone that understands and cares about your business. pnc corporate and institutional banking offers strategies tailored to your company's needs. know that our dedicated teams of local experts offer insight to help you achieve your business objectives. see how working with pnc can help your company grow at pnc.com/ideas

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>> if he hadn't inherited $200 million, you know where donald trump would be right now? selling watches in manhattan. [ cheers and applause ] >> rubio throws everything but the kitchen sink. >> can i just say? >> quickly. >> somebody wrote that line for him, he delivered it very well. >> okay. >> i think he only said it one time. >> the watches? >> yeah. he did say this is not a real estate deal four times in like 15 seconds. but the watches line -- >> tom brokaw and chuck todd join us. plus more from our interview with hillary clinton. i'll be back in a moment.

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>> here's a guy that inherited $200 million. if he hadn't inherited $200 million, you know where donald trump would be right now?ç selling watches in manhattan. you lied about the polish workers. >> oh, yeah, yeah. 38 years ago. >> you lied to students at trump university. >> oh, he lied 38 years ago. i guess there's a statute of limitation on lies. >> in 2013 when i was leading the fight against the gang of eight amnesty bill, where was donald? he was firing dennis rodman on "celebrity apprentice." >> i will not let people die on the streets if i'm president. >> have you said you're a liberal on health care? >> excuse me, let me talk. i know you're embarrasses, but keep swinging, swing for the fences. >> wow. >> some good lines in there.

>> it was hard to describe the debate actually at times. >> i wasn't hard, it was a cage fight. that's when you get down to it. it was -- >> fisticuffs. >> tom brokaw is with us. there you go, a cage fight along with mary kissel of the "wall street journal" and, tom -- who do we have in washington. republican pollster kristen soltis anderson, pulitzer prize winning columnist inç eugene robinson and host of "meet the press" chuck todd. >> so, tom, it was a cage fight and at points three candidates were yelling at each other at the same time for five minutes. >> for a long time. >> what is a moderator's responsibility to step in and maintain order when the yelling continues unabated for five minutes. >> or was that part of the story? >> it's always a tricky piece, having been there and done that. people -- you can never satisfy everyone. actually, a couple of those exchanges, as heated as they were, were instructive when they

were going after donald trump on whether or not he'd been fined a million dollars for hiring illegals, what his net worth may be, what about his tax returns and when ted cruz was making the point "i was there on immigration." those were relevant points. my problem with the debate last night was that we're not getting at issue that the country needs. >> none. >> we have a flat economy going on right now -- >> on the democratic side we are. >> not only that, folks, in the last two weeks, we've had two more mass shootings p 350 people killed in america in mass shootings in the last year. >> one last çnight. >> and one last night in kansas. that's a stunning thing. you can look at all of these 10 debates, insults flying back and forth, a lot of petulance and yet you dig inside those bloomberg polls we've been talking about all day, in the deep south the number one issue -- >> guns. >> no. jobs. by a long shot. the number-one issue is jobs.

all the other issues, all the social issues whether it's guns or abortion or the environment, they're at the bottom. it's jobs, jobs, jobs. all these guys are doing are insulting each other. >> and nobody is talking about jobs. there's always the difference between the primary debates and the general election. what they're doing is going after a constituency trying to get over 50% to get them home and there was a lot of that last night playing to the immigration heated debate that goes on in the s.e.c., as we call the primary this is week, and in texas especially. but if trump beats cruz in texas and kasich is in trouble in ohio -- >> and marco is losing by 15, 20 points inç florida in two different polls. >> here's what will happen in washington and other pundit places. it will look like the american embassy when the iranians were coming home. we'll be feeding stuff into the fire -- >> thank you for that. >> thank you, tom brokaw, it's already begun. >> let's show the debate.

marco rubio challenging trump as a hypocrite on immigration and trade. >> if he builds the wall the way he built trump towers he'll be using illegal immigrant labor to do it. [ cheers and applause ] >> so cute. such a cute soundbite. >> about the trade war, beyond because your ties and the clothes you make are made in mexico and china. so you'll be starting a trade war against your own ties and suits. why don't you make them in america? >> because they devalue their currencies. >> then make them in america. >> well, you don't know a thing about business, you lose on everything you do. they devalue their currencies to such an extent that our businesses cannot compete with them. our workers lose their jobs. >> so you make them in china and russia. >> well, you don't know anything about it. >> i don't know anything about bankrupting four companies. >> here's a guy that buys aç house for $179,000, he sells it to a lobbyist who's probably here for $380,000 and then legislation is passed. you tell me about this guy. >> here's a guy that inherited

$200 million. if he hadn't inherited $200 million, you know where donald trump would be right now? selling watches in manhattan. [ cheers and applause ] >> i took $1 million and i turned it into $10 billion. i borrowed $1 million. >> then release the tax returns so we can see how much money you make. >> i borrowed $1 million, i turned it into $10 billion. >> he doesn't make that much money. >> so chuck todd, people having saying for some time that the candidates, especially rubio, should go after donald trump, last night he did and he did it after a spate of polls came out that showed the race to be almost over. the bloomberg polls in the deep south and then in florida those two polls that showed rubio losing by almost 20 points the. question of the morning, is it too little too late or could this change things next tuesday? >> what i was struck at the most last night is that lastç night the normal rules of political debate applied. meaning the people that were behind attacked the

front-runner. what was so amazing about last night was that was the most that i think donald trump had really ever been attacked by multiple candidates, mostly right, cruz and rubio. and what's -- i'm sorry, i think it's remarkable that it took to the 10th debate before pressure was applied to trump. is it too little too late? we'll find out on tuesday. i think rubio certainly -- if you look at what donors wanted to see from him, what a bunch of people sitting on the sidelines who don't want to see trump as the nominee, who have been hesitant to jump on the rubio bandwagon, particularly after what happened in new hampshire, did he perform well enough for them? my guess is he did. he was relentless. i think at times he did get under trump's skin. cruz disappeared early in the debate. i thought he came back late. but you've got to give trump credit. i thought he countered pretty well. he didn't just take the pummelling. he did return fire a little çb.

but i have to say -- >> chuck, don't you -- >> but joe one more thing. the audit defense on tax returns was awful. there's just -- to make that your -- "well, i'm getting aud it th -- audited." anyone else i'd say that's a massive unforced error, with trump you don't know. >> i think it works for him because it shows how the irs is hounding everybody and he's getting audited. >> okay, "i'm audited every year." really, you are, buddy? this, zmuk did he do better or worse than he did in the south carolina debate that we judged as a complete collapse? >> i thought he was better last night. >> that's what i'm saying. i thought he collapsed in south carolina. the polls showed he went up so if that performance causes him to go up four or five points, i

don't know what will help donald trump we've said it before, it helps marco rubio because marco rubio answers the bell. he finally gets upç and punche the guy, the heavyweight champion in the face time and time and time again and he doesn't back down. and that's good. not for 2016, it may be too late but as we set up for 2020 because i suspect you'll see him move ahead of ted cruz and as those who jockey for who's the next nominee in 2020 if that's the case. >> not only did rubio perform well stylistically, he was relentless, he went back at trump. in the past when we've seen people like jeb bush, he'd go at trump once and when trump hit back he had nowhere to go after. that rubio was well prepared with the research. the question, gene robinson, is a lot of this stuff is low-hanging fruit. you say all the jobs are going to mexico and china yet you make all your clothes and ties in mexico and the china. why haven't we heard this stuff at least on the debate stage? we've seen in the the press. why haven't we heard it from

other candidates until last night? >> well, because they were scared. they were scared to do it. they -- because attacking trump got you out of the race, basically. the candidates who had gone after him before are no longer with us. last night's debate was fascinating. it was a cage match, as tom brokaw said and you could listen to it on the verbal level. there was the verbal level and non-verbal level. on the verbal level and what was said, clearly rubio struck blow after blow, the watches in manhattan line actually was brilliant and brilliantly delivered. the trump university stuff i thought was damaging. people would get that. cruz late in the debate was an effective prosecutor i thought in cross-examining trump so on the verbal level clearly he took blows. on the non-verbal level you had the big dog in the middle and you had two yapping smaller dogs

on either side who did not dislodge him. that was the sort of image that you got from the whole evening. so in that sense who knows what hurts donald trump. most of his voters seem to have made up their minds a while ago and they don't seem shaken by this sort of thing. >> mary? >> the reality is, if republican voters are going(tn choose donald trump, then donald trump has to be vetted and what we saw last night were a lot of big rid flags about trump. he says he's getting audited every year, he refuses to release his past tax returns. well, that's the first time we've heard that excuse and to my knowledge there's no reason why he can't release past returns. what's in them if republicans go with trump, he's going to face a hillary clinton who looks very serious, very presidential, who's very ready for him. so he needs to be attacked -- >> mary, she's not releasing just as much as he's not releasing. they'll cancel each other out on this. >> that's true.

but look at the excerpts of the interview with her you just played. essentially what she just said is, if you like your 2% economy, you can keep your 2% economy. she spouted a lot of nonsense about how she's all for good schools. you know what? she's backed by the teachers' unions. she's absolutely against school choice. so she can sound serious while spouting a lot of nonsense and really saying we're going to have a third term of obama. >> so what we're reading in the "wall street journal" editorial is trump for president inç the fall? that will be fascinating. can't wait for that. tom, so what happens now? we wait for super tuesday. if the polls go the way they're looking right now, it looks like a decisive donald trump win. does the republican party start lining up behind this man or do we see a third-party challenge from bloomberg or from another republican? >> on the bloomberg piece of it, i've talked to him a couple times and he's not ready to pull

the trigger yet and it will get harder and harder for him to do that as the trump phenomenon continues if it does continue after all this. as you know, it's very tough getting on the ballot as a third party candidate. when ross perot got 19% of the vote that was a triumph, but it was only 19% of the vote and he had a long runup to doing that. the republican party establishment, whatever it is, hope that he does not get to the nomination in the primaries. that he'll be well short of that. and then they can broke err convention in some passion. but they're in a panic mode about the fact that donald trumç will be the nominee. i think the tax returns are critical at this stage, quite honestly. he's being called out by everyone and when he says "i can't do it because i'm being audited." let's see the last nine years. >> look, head to head, trump loses to bernie and he loses to hillary and cruz tried to point that out last night when he kept talking about trump's

electability. now i'm sure that doesn't speak to trump's supporters because trump has -- his supporters just aren't swayed. it's about 30%. but it may sway some voters in the middle. look, my point is if republicans want to go with trump they need to understand what they're getting and they need to understand that they might lose the general election. >> kristen, can you explain who the republican primary voters are that are supporting trump? >> republican primary voters who are supporting trump are typically working class folks who are frustrated. that they feel like america has changed in a bad direction in the last couple of years, over the last decade or two and that they are being left behind. so most people voting for trump, they're doing so because they sort of want to change the directionç of where things are going. they don't want to be left behind. that's why the attacks up to this point saying trump's not conservative have failed. what was fascinating and the reason why rubio's attacks last night were important is because he finally did something different than what other people are doing. it's not just that rubio went on the attack.

it's that he finally used different attacks that haven't been levied on the debate stage. that might be potentially per situationive to folks who don't care that trump isn't conservative but want somebody who's competent and can win. >> chuck todd the republican party in the rubio camp is dreaming of a brokered convention. >> that's all they have. >> that's all they have. >> >> but let's say even if this debate moved things five points in rubio's direction trump still wins all 13 contests on super tuesday. he still wins florida, may lose texas. if we get past super tuesday next week and trump dominates the way it looks like he's going to dominate right now, is the dream of the brokered convention dead in the water? >> absolutely. look, it's aç pretty simple -- >> chuck, they have to stop him before super tuesday. >> correct. it's -- well, know, it's march 15. that's the deadline.

on super tuesday because of the proportional -- go ahead, let's put rubio, give him another three points. so let's say he averages in the high 20s in many of these states rather than the low to mid-20s. trumps sits at his 35 to 40 depending on the state. he'll have 100 to 110 delegate lead: but the real test is ohio and florida. if trump wins them both, it's over. he's halfway -- he'll be at 600 plus. that's halfway to the magic number. no one else will be within, i think, 250, 300. >> so 16 years later it's still all about florida, florida, florida. >> and there's only two outcomes, either trump becomes the presumptive nominee or we're headed to a brokered convention. trump has enough of a lead already, he'll get en delegates on super tuesday that

it's impossible for anybody else to win this before the convention so it's either trump now or a convention? >> and todd harris, the chairman of rubio's campaign said the media needs to chill, marco rubio is going to win florida, period, take it to the bank. >> >> what chuck says is correct and here is the problem for the republicans and this is if trump does all that -- what chuck just outlined and they decide to have a broerk brokeredñ convention, they're defying the will of the people. they're alienating everybody who went for trump. >> this has been the case from the get-go. >> and the party breaks up in its own way. that's a huge issue about are they playing by the establishment rule source there a new republican party that trump has managed to personify with his style and positions? >> not exactly where i stand but quickly, the audit narrative, i predict it plays into trump's

favor. >> why is that? >> because "i'm being audited every year they audit me." there's more there and it will play into his favor. chuck todd, thank you. >> again, every other candidate would have to release -- >> it will play in his favor. >> this is also in iowa. there's never been more true than this. "i support the crazy one." are you talking about sanders? is that the pro-sanders -- >> fill in the blank. democrat or republican. whatever you want to do. >> chuck, what are you working on for "meet the press" on sunday? >> we're getting close to most of the candidates that are left so we'll see how many we have. but we have a primary tomorrow night. >> oh, my gosh. kristen soltye soltis anderson, you so much. tom brokaw as well. we all support the crazy one. join, stay with us. up next, our one-on-one interview with hillary clinton in south carolina. we ask why nothing seems to

stick to donald trump and much of it does to her and her take on how her campaign is going right now. >> and his campaign. watch this. >> i think it's been mostç surprising to me so-tto see somy who was affable and good company and have a reputation that is bigger than life really traffic in a lot of prejudice and paranoia in some of the comments that he's made which have been so divisive and mean spirited doesn't quite fit with what i thought i knew about him. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪

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job what do you think? mary's going into the voting booth -- >> she'sç got major derangemen syndrome on both sides. >> she's sitting there and sees two name -- trump and clinton. >> what does she do? what do you do, mary? >> you have to think about the supreme court. >> so what do you do? >> in that instance, you have to think do i want 30 years of an incredibly liberal supreme court that just may -- >> you're going to vote for donald trump. >> that makes up the law. >> no, i'm telling you the calculation of conservatives. >> so that means donald trump. you're a trump person.

>> i'm telling you -- okay, fine. >> mary kissel for donald trump. >> more of our discussion with hillary clinton. >> you going back to the newsroom -- >> i don't sit in a newsroom. >> we sat down with the contender ahead of south carolina's primary vote. take a look. >> i want to ask you something else we talked about on the show, bob woodward came with a big folder that said "trump" on it and he said "we're going to go after this guy. he is going to be the next nominee and nobody's gone after him." i said, bob, they've written all the articles, nothing seems to stick to him. and i said the bigger question is not why the press hasn'tç investigated him -- because they have -- the question is why doesn't anything stick to him whereas everything seems to stick to hillary clinton? it's got to be frustrating for you to see sort of the double standard not necessarily among the press but among the voters but why do you think that is that nothing sticks to donald

trump but if you wrote something in 1973, the press would be chewing on it for two weeks? >> foryou said something in 1994 someone would hold up a sign and take it out of context in front of a speech you're doing. >> which we saw today which is ridiculous. >> i have a couple responses to this. i think part of the reason why i'm going to be the nominee and the next president is because i have withstood all this. i have been vetted. i've been at this for decades now and despite all the incoming, i'm still here, i'm still forging ahead because i think in most cases most people kind of see through it and we go on together. the vetting on these other candidates has not even begun. and it will. and iç think if you look -- my best memory on this, joe, is that the republicans in nevada had fewer voters turn out than we did in nevada. i think it was like 70,000 to 80,000. that's a very small group of

people who are making this decision right now. when it moves to the general election, i think you're going to see a real seriousness of people whoever the republicans nominate turning and saying "what do we know?" >> it's most likely going to be donald trump, though, isn't it? >> right now it looks like that but i'm not going handicap their race. >> how surprised are you knowing donald trump as long as you've known donald trump? and i said she's exactly right when you answered the question, you said "he's fun, he's an interesting guy, he's fun." how surprised are you that we are finding our -- we woke up after nevada and everybody in washington said "oh, my god, this guy is most likely going to be the next nomination." >> i didn't know him that well but i did know him. but it's been most surprising to me to see somebody who was affable and was good company ç and, you know, had a reputation of being bigger than life really traffic in a lot of the prejudice and paranoia and some of the comments that he's made

which has been so divisive and mean spirited doesn't quite fit with what i thought i knew about him. so i think it will be interesting to see what -- if he does get the nomination he decides to do with it how he presents himself. but he has really been offensive and in many respects surprising to those of us who did know him. >> let's talk about the e-mail controver controversy. sometimes your spokespeople wil come out and say that this is a republican attack. it's the right wing going after you again. but obviously the fbi is involved? >> well, there's two things -- >> and the "new york times" has been reporting on this for some time. so you could take elements of benghazi and say republicans were driving this for a political purpose but here you

ot suggesting the fbi here you investigation is politicized are you? >> no, but there's two different things. there is a security inquiry going on and if we respect that, it's on its own timetable but it's moving forward. but the other one, the lawsuit, they're not talking about the security inquiry, they're talking about judicial watch. >> not the underlying investigation. >> no. so there are two different things. i am personally not concerned about it. i think there will be a resolution on the security inquiry. the litigation others have brought -- and some of them are right-wing outfits, those will proceed and i'm not worried or concerned about them. i just don't want people to confuse the two. >> so in the early primary states, younger women supported

a 74-year-old socialist man. >> [ laughter ] >> a man, man, as austin powers would say.ç it's a man, man! >> what do you make -- there were news stories along the way looking at how women connect with you. i think it comes down to trust issues again, possibly not. maybe you tell me. what's going on? especially with younger women. >> i think with younger women -- i think they have every reason to feel like things are kind of messed up. a lot of them have gotten a education with a huge price ago attached to it with student debt. they're not getting the jobs they thought they would get. i think there's a lot of real frustration. and i've talked to many, many young people and even -- not just those who support me, those who support my opponent and that's what comes through. it's like, hey, the economy has failed us, the government's failed us and you know we're excited by somebody who says

we're going to change it all, we're going to start all over again. i totally get that. i can vaguely remember being that age and feeling a little bit like that myself. so i keep saying i want to meet people where they are and particularly young people. that's why iç put forth all of these ideas about student debt and college affordability. the things they talk to me about and also tackle a lot of the barriers, whether it's racism or sexism or anything else that is worrying them. >> equal pay. >> equal pay. huge issue. and young women ask me about it all the time. so i've said many times, look, i know a lot of them are not for me right now but i'm for them and i feel very optimistic when we get into the general election against whoever the republicans nominate, you know, there's going to be a clear distinction that i'll be able to build on and i'm going to take people where they are and a lot of young people are very worried about their futures. at the same time, they're the

among the most generous and tolerant. you have two at home. they're generous, tolerant, open minded. >> they're willful, they're materialistic, they can be very selfish, too. >> stop talking about your daughters. >> i think what we want to do, though, is love them as they are and then try to figure out how do we create a better path for them so when i say theseç thin like i want you to have all the opportunities that you deserve in america. it's not hollow. it's got real meat to it and they can believe it with. when i draw contrasts with senators sanders, it's not because we disagree on goals. i want to get to universal health coverage, too, i just think i have a better way of getting there. so we have a real dialogue. that's what i'm looking for. >> speaking of a real dialogue, when we've been around the country for the past seven or eight years talking to group after group, whether it's the 92nd street y or roural alabama

we're struck by how much people are alike, how their views of america are so similar and how they're concerned about the same thing and that is that we have a government that doesn't work. and whether it's a very liberal audience we're speaking to or conservative audience they always ask why can't they talk to each other? you understand if republicans elected, democrats are politically going to try to knock their heads off.

there is no substitute for building relationships and i'll tell you a story which might surprise you. but in the '90s, i have a passion about foster care and adoption and what we can do to make it better, more kids get permanent homes and i was trying to figure out, well, who could i get in the congress to work with me on this? so i did my research and found out tom delay had been a foster parent. i called him up. he was as surprised to hear from me as i was surprised to be calling him and i said "congressman, would you work with me on a big reform on adoption and foster care?" silence, he said "well, what do you want me to do?" i said "come to the white house, we'll have a meeting and figure out how we can do this." and he did. i'm not sure i could have found

any other common ground than that one slice, but that's what i want to do. there are people there who are honorable, who care about solving problems on both sides of the aisle. how do we begin to connect with each other, to see each other as human sfwhbeings? you and i know there are outliers who will never compromise, but they're still thankfully a minority. how do we have a more open process to bring people in, to listen to them? i thought what patti murray and paul ryan did after the government shutdown in the fall of 2013 was a textbook example. they were charged with go get a budget. we've had this reallyç bitter experience. they didn't start by walking into a conference room flanked by their acolytes carrying binders. they had breakfast together. they called each other on the phone. they actually got to know each other as people. what a novel idea. we've got to get back to that. i know it's hard because people

fly in, they fly out, they're not there, we don't have the opportunities. i think what you've heard and what you both have experienced traveling around is people across our country want that to happen. we just have to do more to create the conditions where it's a win-win as much as possible. i will also stand my ground on things i don't agree with, but let's try to find as much common ground as possible. >> president clinton said governors and presidents can't afford to have long memories. >> yes. >> we''ve heard stories in the press before about how you're tough and driven and you remember people that slight you. when you're president of the united states, is that your governing philosophy as well if you get elected president of the united states? that you need to have a shortç memory and you need to wake up every morning and forget about what happened? >> absolutely. when i got to the senate, lindsey graham was my colleague. >> lindsey, yeah.

>> and we started to get to know each other. there was a lot of history there, as you know, and then we teamed up to get health care for national guard members. i travelled with him and john mccain. is we got to know each other and that is exactly what i will do. there are very few people orcyv events in politics where you say you have to write somebody off. there are a couple where people really do things that are just so inimmickable and really indefensible. but otherwise you take people where they are, try to get to know them better and find that common ground. when i was shepherding the start streety through the senate, i spent countless hours on the phone in meetings, what do you need, how do we doç this? what expert do you want to talk to? how can i do this to reassure

you? i'm hands on about this because i don't think there's any way other than to do that. all right, still ahead, we've shown you the food fight moments from last night's debate. there was one much more dignified moment that happened before the fighting started. we'll have that straight ahead. >> we'd also like to welcome a very special guest with us here tonight. ladies and gentlemen, the 41st president of the united states, george herbert walker bush and former first lady barbara bush. [ cheers and applause ] dad, you can just drop me off right here. oh no, i'll take you up to the front of the school. that's where your friends are. seriously, it's, it's really fine. you don't want to be seen with your dad? no, it's..no.. oh, there's tracy. what! [ horn honking ] [ forward collision warning ] bye dad! it brakes when you don't. the newly redesigned volken right now you can get a $1,000 presidents' day bonus on new 2015 or 2016 passat, jetta, or tiguan models.

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up next, much more with our political round table with the "washington post's" eugene robinson and the "washington post's" mary kissel. and we'll bring in the u.s. conference of mayor, baltimore mayor stephanie rawlings-blang. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. her life's work has been about breaking barriers. and so would her presidency. which is why, for every american who's not being paid what they're worth... who's held back by student debt or a system tilted against them- and there are far too many of you- she understands that our

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that's a loophole that my opponent voted for where you have to finish the background check within three days and if you don't finish it, too bad, you still have to sell the gun. the killer in charleston, that young man filled with hatred and racism, went to buy a gun at the end of three days they didn't have all theç information but under the law he was entitled to get it and he got it. and only later did they find out he had a criminal conviction, he

should have never been able to buy the gun in the first place. and you know what he did, he took that gun and he went to church, he went to mother emanuel. >> that was secretary hillary clinton contrasting her record on guns with that of senator bernie sanders. joining us now, mayor stephanie rawlings-blake as baltimore, she serves as president of the united states conference of mayors and secretary of the democratic national committee. mary kiss i donny deutsch with us as well. let's bring up the issue of guns. a big problem in baltimore. a lot of guns used in crimes and murders in your city are acquired illegally. they don't go through the traditional background system check so how do you get those guns out of the system? how do you stop murders happening in baltimore? >> it's interesting you say that. we had a case last year where 30 guns a weekend were coming in from out of state. it is a huge problem and that's why the conference of mayorsç

again bipartisan organization. we're not republicans. we are asking for the candidates for president and those who wish to lead our country and congress to be real about how we can step the tide of illegal guns. we need a federal government to invest and protect and we say protect, we need stronger partnerships between federal law enforcement officers so we can stop this onslaught of guns that are destroying our cities. >> what do you say to gun advocates to who say some of the places with the strongest gun laws like chicago for example are some of the places that have the worst gun crime statistics. >> i would say just really need to stop it. how many shootings does it take. how many children have to die on our street before they realize they can't just say no. they can't just block it. let's figure out what we can do. it's so sad that that we are stuck in this country not willing to stand up to say that

you might haveç what can we doo make our country safer? >> you know well the "wall street journal" gun advocate say this is not a question of having laws. this is a societal problems, not the guns that are the problem. >> let's be real about the problem is. it's black on black violence and that's something the mayor isn't speaking about and that's what we should be speaking about. we should also be speaking about the real problem which is politicians running against the police forces. what worked here in new york city was stop, question, and frisk which kept guns off the streets and protected the largely minority communities in our urban areas here in new york city. that worked. but now you have a federal candidate, candidate for president running against the police, stoking racial tensions instead of stepping back and

saying how do we solve the problem based on what's worked in the past. >> would you like to respond? or i can."#m rjtjj$)jjq)e to st. the facts are very clear. i talk about blackon black crime all the time. we have a call to action for african-american men to step up and into the community. but what we heard from her is the same stuff we're always hearing, a bunch of gibberish and no solutions. you can point the finger all you want, that doesn't make us safer. >> well, and i'm -- with all due respect, mary, i have lesser issues with stop and frisk as long as they go to every community and stop and frisk. >> well, you have to target the communities where the crime is occurring. the crime isn't occurring on the upper east side of new york. >> do you know how many people are getting hauled in for mare w -- marijuana in their pockets and lines around the corner with citations that get thrown out,

that throw people off course who are already struggling to get on course. are you kidding me? stop and frisk, fine, but bring it to your community and mine as well. and have the white kids with the pot in their pockets brought into jail as well. >> i think criminal justice reform is a separate issue and i think there's bipartisan -- >> no, it's not! it's not a separate çissue, if you're stopping and frisking you're screwing with the criminal justice system and throwing a ton of minorities in there. >> there is a bipartisan consensus on capitol hill for criminal justice reform. i agree with you on that, but you have to protect these communities now because it isn't is 1% elites on the upper east side who are at risk today, it is the largely black and hispanic communities in places like baltimore, chicago, new york. by the way, cities that are ruled by liberals and have been ruled by liberals for decades. these are the people that have to be protected and i'm sorry, i have proposed a solution, stop question and frisk works. >> and creates massive racial

tension, gene, can you help? >> well, look, there was a federal lawsuit, a successful federal lawsuit against stop and frisk in new york city and whatn the few instances when police did stop and frisk whites in white neighbor hootds they found illegal weapons and contraband at a higher rate than they were finding in minorityç neighborhoods. so the issue with that policy was always would it kill you to stop and frisk some white guys? would it kill you to stop and frisk -- yes, in the upper east side and lower manhattan and in places where, guess what, we don't find crime because we don't look for it there. so clearly the policy was applied in a discriminatory fashion, they had to revise it because that was the finding of a federal lawsuit. >> do you care about appearances or do you really care about black lives? that's where the murders are actually happening is in those

communities, black on black crime. that is why the police went to those communities. >> mary fairness is not a matter of appearance, fairness is fairness, equality is equality. you can't apply a policy in a discriminatory fashion and that is what was found in a federal lawsuit that us cad the policy to be changed. >> stephanie. >> what she's suggesting is the way that we solve america's problems is to continue to make minorities second class citizens. again, not real solutions. my hope is that maria and the rest of the peopleç who are so unwilling to take on the nra, look at themselves in the mirror and get real. we know that we have crime in minority communities, in poor communities, regardless of race, but what she is saying doesn't help. we've seen where the divide between the community and the police has caused. look at baltimore. caused huge problems in our community. we don't want to see that again and the solution is not going to be just stop more people. we know it's wrong. >> this is a conversation we need to continue obviously.

my daughter by the way loving baltimore and is working in the community. >> i love to hear that. >> volunteering and tutoring. it's got a lot of great things going on, especially in the arts community. >> thank you stephanie rawlings-blake, eugene robinson and mary kissel as always. "morning joe" continues as we come right back.

up next, after being whipped into shape by chris christie marco rubio comes out swinging

at donald trump during last night's republican debate. could it change the race or is it too little too late? he lifted the hammer. that's good. plus more from our sit down interview with hillary clinton including the moment she says she realized some voters are having trust issues with her and what she plans to do about that. moeblng is back in a minute. was engineered...

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(patrick 2) pretty great.ke to be the boss of you? (patrick 1) how about a 10% raise? (patrick 2) how about 20? (patrick 1) how about done?

(patrick 2) that's the kind of control i like... ...and that's what they give me at national car rental. i can choose any car in the aisle i want- without having to ask anyone. who better to be the boss of you... (patrick 1)than me. i mean, you...us. (vo) go national. go like a pro. excuse me. we are going to take those people and those people are going to be serviced by doctors and hospitals, we are going to make deals on it, but we are not going to let them die in the

streets. >> gentlemen. gentlemen. please. >> i want to clarify something. >> i want to move on. >> that attack -- >> i want -- >> he says the government doesn't support healthcare. >> gentlemen. gentlemen. >> we are having a lot of fun up here tonight. i have to tell you. thank you for the book. i really appreciate it. >> donald, relax. >> i'm relaxed. you are the basket case. go ahead. >> don't get nervous. >> myç name is -- >> -- makes anyone nervous. >> people are actually watching this at home. >> you don't know what's happening. >> gentlemen. >> okay. now -- >> hold on. i'm going to get my answer. >> i want to move on. what i've seen up here, i mean, first of all, this guy is a choke artist and this guy is a liar. >> this guy always -- >> you have a combination of factors other than that i rest my case. >> this is the typical thing he does. >> one at a time. gentlemen. governor kasich, you have the floor. >> i get a response to that.

>> you will have a response but i promised governor kasich he can respond. >> can somebody attack me, please? >> whoa. whoa. [ cheers and applause ] that kind of sums up the night. can somebody please attack me. please? please? did you see that? >> look, it was like fruit salad. it was fruit salad. >> on fire. somebody poured gasoline on it and lit a match. good morning, everyone, it's friday, february 26. >> that was a hot mess. >> a hot mess. >> at one pointç i tweeted, th is -- you know, this is a disgrace because -- >> i don't know. >> -- even after that section soon after that they were yelling, willie, at each other for about two minutes uninterrupted. >> right. >> all three yelling at the same time. >> well, in that clip there the frustrating thing is they were all talking over each other and it's like let's stop, you talk, then you talk, then you talk. i thought that was an ugly part. i will say right from the beginning marco rubio did

finally what everyone has been asking him to do. >> he came out fighting. >> he fought. >> we will be showing some of that, donny joyce is here as is sam stein, in washington republican pollster and columnist at the washington examiner kristen soltis anderson and in houston managing editor for bloomberg politics mark halperin. we were in touch with him all night as he was analyzing this firsthand. >> give us your report card, mark, really quickly. i gave marco rubio and donald trump a minuses, again, my grades are based on performance and how the performance affects the candidate's chances of being a nominee. rubio's performance most surprising is he never flinched. everyone else who has gone up against trump in these debates have had moments they have flinched, i don't think rubio took trump down but i do think he showed a fortitude and a lot of people and rubio were wondering why didn't he do this

sooner? >> any impacts. bloomberg came out with polls that shows donald trump absolutely crushing everybody in the deep south, marco rubio saw two florida polls yesterday showing him being crushed in his home state of florida where he is a sitting senator. eqn your mind given what's happened over the past nine debates? >> i don't see any reason to think that this would separate any of donald trump's supporters from him and i think he last night was his normal self. he stayed on message, he had moments where he was really under attack and he held his own and i think he talked a lot about what he wanted to talk about. i gave ted cruz and john kasich bs and ben carson a c plus, but rubio's performance while strong doesn't eraseç the huge gap he has not just in florida but in that bloomberg politics poll where trump is in the southern states voting on tuesday way ahead, even though voters know that he is not the most conservative person in the race. >> we're going to get to an incredible moment of the night but first we should let everyone

know we flew down to south carolina yesterday, we have a big interview with hillary clinton to show you, extremely wide ranginranging, sat down wi well over a half an hour. >> it was fascinating. she was very relaxed. she was what she had been in 2008 when she really went on that run. >> so that's coming up as well. but back to the debate. there was this moment where rubio demanded trump offer explanations for his healthcare policies and then look what happened. >> be aware of this, donald, because you don't follow this stuff very closely because here is what happened, when they passed obamacare they put a bail out fund in the law that would allow public money to be used, taxpayer money to bail out companies when they lost money and we led the effort and wiped out that bail out fund. what is your plan?ç i understand the lines around the state, whatever that means, this is not a game where you draw maps -- >> and you don't know what it means. that's the problem. >> what is your plan on healthcare? >> the biggest problem he's got

is he really doesn't know about the lines. the biggest thing we've got and the reason we have no competition is because we have lines around the state and you have -- you have -- >> you already mentioned that as part of my plan. i know what that is but what else is part of your plan? the only thing is to get rid of the lines around the states -- >> the lines around the state -- >> that's your plan. >> instead of having one insurance company taking care of new york and texas you will have many, they will compete and it will be a beautiful thing. >> so that's the only part of the plan? just the lines, the interstate competition? >> you have many different plans. you will have competition. you will have so many different plans. >> now he's repeating himself. >> no, i'm not. no. no. no. >> mr. trump. >> i watched him melt down on the stage like i have never seen anybody. >> let's focus on the substance. >> let's talk about your plan. >> it says five things, everyone is çdumb, he's going to make america great again, we're going

to win, win, win, he's winning in the polls and the lines around the state. every night. beautiful. it was a beautiful thing. >> that's america right there. >> what a difference between the democratic debates and the republican debates. where you actually talk about policy in the democratic debates. >> the democratic debates are one-on-one now and that really does help. >> i don't think anybody is paying attention to any of the substantive issues there, i think clearly rubio had a very, very strong night. he was on the offensive and what i think he did is what i would do if i was advising anybody to go against trump, go after him as a businessman, trump university, you've hired immigrants. i don't think it makes a difference, though. you are if you are a trump supporters, you were lensing it through that's my guy, he was punching back and if you didn't like trump you still don't like him. had rubio started that way we

would have been a different race. >> there is a devil's advocate theory about rubio's night is he spent all this time crafted an image as someone who elevated positive thinking, forward looking, the future of the party and to get into the mud with trump might have hurt that brand as a branding guy what do you think? >> i don't think it hurted him at all i think he added a dimension to it. it was not, okay, this is not a guy looking to the future. this was a guy who punched back and did not flinch. i was shocked because if you go against trump it's tough to keep your footing but i thought for the first time trump was in the position of not even defending himself but at least having to swat those things away. it was a strong night for rubio. i don't think it moves the point picture. >> here is the thing, though. i'm with mark halperin. if you look at the polls, you look at the fact he's 20 points down in his home state, marco rubio, you look at how badly most of us think other than donald trump how badly most of us think donald trump did in

south carolina, the south >> so we thought. >> compared to last night. that's what i'm saying -- >> it doesn't matter. >> that's why i say it doesn't matter butç this is why it matters to marco rubio, because rubio and cruz are not just fighting for 2016. marco rubio is losing in the next 11, 12 -- he is going to lose 15 primaries in a row. he's not going to probably even get to florida, but do you know what, rubio and cruz have to prove to their donors that they are worthy in 2016 to be in poll position. marco rubio can't hear over the next three years, marco, i'd give you money again, man, but you had -- you had the chance to fight trump and you never did. for marco rubio to be able to raise the money that he needs to raise in 2016, he had to do what he did last night. i doubt it's going to move the polls for him that much, maybe a little bit. here is another thing, too, willie, if it gets him ahead of

ted cruz by instead of half a point, one, two, three points and he can go into 2020 going, do you know what, i took on ted cruz, he had more money, he had a better organization and i beat cruz and then he starts naming the states. >> right. >> because these two guys are young, they are like in their mid 40s. i çmean, how old is marco? >> 44, i think. >> 44. so in 2020 he's going to be 48 years old. so he had to do this because we were all saying, his donors were all saying, all the writers were saying why is he scared of donald trump? he proved last night even though it's not going to make a difference he is not scared of donald trump and if he's going to be the future of the republican party, which he has been called by "time magazine" and every else he has to prove by punching back. >> if you talk to them he's not giving up this time around. he still believes if he gets in a one on one with trump there is a way. you may disagree with that --

>> it's not that i disagree with that. it goes back to willie. if you look at every super tuesday poll, he is out for four right now, down in all 11 super tuesday states, probably lose 15 in a row and then he's got to go to florida where he's down 20 points. if he's 0-15, 0-16, 0-17 he doesn't run in florida because he knows he's got a bright future he may be governor in '18 or run for senator agaifç in '1. >> it brings up the point why didn't they do this type of attack against trump months and months and months ago. you remember 2008 hillary clinton the inevitable candidate and everyone was asking barack obama go after her during a debate, this was in the fall of 2008 and it took actually chris dodd to go after her in that debate, going after her on undocumented citizens, driver's licenses in new york for her to finally get the gleam ripped off of her. you're wondering if they had done in back in september, bakt back in october would it have made a difference? >> no.

>> you don't think so? >> listen, i have to say this again, donny, just following up with that question, if any debate performance was going to hurt donald trump it would have been south carolina. it would have been south carolina. >> we went back to september. i'm telling you if you just for the first time out of the box were watching that -- were watching that debate, you would say, wow, rubio is the guy and trump is not really a viable candidate. you're coming in now lensing it through the trump win, win, win. soç there's so much equity in m right now, there's so many built in graph a tas. >> people are finishing his sentences for him. >> if you watch last night fresh you would say rubio was the guy, but too little, too late and it's just not going to happen. >> we put up a story yesterday about how these campaigns didn't even put up a research to get trump over the summer because they assumed he would go away. last night was a research debate, they could have done that months and months and months ago had they prepared.

still ahead our complete interview with hillary clinton. did something specific change for her and her campaign after their win in nevada? you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪

tomorrow in south carolina hillary clinton looks to notch her third victory of the democratic presidential primary race and we sat down with her yesterday in that state for a wide ranging conversation about the issues and her candidacy. >> so as you know on our show we sort of speak our mind, for better or worse sometimes for candidates, for you sometimes worse. >> we didn't make her laugh right at the top. >> over the past couple days we have said for better that you seem to be a different candidate since nevada. in fact, the second you got up on stage and started speaking in

nevada,ç reminded me of the hillary clinton from 2008. what was different? what is different now? >> that's a great observation. i don't know. i think it does take me a little bit longer to get into the rhythm of campaigning, to feel what i'm doing and how it's working and i felt just really good. we hit our stride in nevada. i felt like not only was the gain and -- campaign and message of breaking all barriers taking hold that people could understand it but i felt like we were on the upward trajectory. >> you also said something, too, in an interview, i'm not sure which one it was, but it was we've been talking about how calculating you were and how it seems to be not the person that we know personally, but you said in an interview earlier this week that your biggest challenge was convincing voters that you were not interested in what was

best for you. >> right. >> you had to convince them that you were doing this for them. >> right. right. >> talk about that. >> well, you know -- >> ndç at misconceptions that u may feel you've been fighting. >> i have to -- this has kind of come to me over the last months because, you know, it is painful, it's hurtful to have people say, oh, i don't trust her, i don't know why she's doing it and it suddenly struck me, well, maybe there is this underlying question, like is she doing it for herself or is she really in it for us and i've always thought of myself as being service-oriented, always believed that i was in it for, you know, trying to help people get a better shot in life, even the odds, and i think i'm just going to keep reaching out, talking about what i've done, what i will do and making the case that people can count on me because they always have in the past. >> so somebody said something else very funny today when i said she just seems different

and she seemed different this week, she's more relaxed, she's what we've been saying all along she should be and it's really surprising and i think it was halperin on the set said, no the clintons actually have a 30-year history of near death experiences and then ç resurrections. so the question is why don't you just make it easier on yourself and forget the lazarus routine and just make it easy from the gaining for your supporters and friends? >> okay. let's do that from now on. i like that alternative. that's an interesting observation. and there may be some truth to it. >> right. >> because part of it is, though, i always feel like i am carrying a big weight of responsibility for so many people. i really do have this sense that a lot of people are counting on me, a lot of people are expecting me to help them, a lot of people are really in my corner and i think that does sometimes get me a little bit, you know, tensed up to be

honest. i think i'm inflicted by the responsibility. >> since we're getting ready for the interview and mika was writing things and she was writing notes and everything i was sitting here talking, how are you guys doing -- >> it's how a man prepares and mika said, man versus me fretting over every note and carrying notes, she was like do you want notes? i wasç like no. do you ever look at your husband and how he did it and go, it's not fair? >> well, look, i think mika and i understand this and maybe it's because, you know, still today when you are a high achieving woman, particularly one in the public eye, you really are just expected to perform at a higher level all the time. >> right. >> and there are not enough experiences with different styles or different approaches that women make -- men -- my goodness, there's a million different ways you can be successful, you can communicate, all the rest of t i'm not

telling you anything you don't know. i'm not a natural politician like bill clinton or barack obama. so for me it really came through the root of service, it really came through my deep conviction that, you know, we had to make sure that this country we all love kept producing opportunities for everybody and i see that narrowing and i see people being left out and it upsets me. so i invest a lot of energy and a lot of my own emotion into what i do and i think sometimes insteadç of that being as easyo understand as i would like it could be it sometimes is a little bit nerve-racking. >> right. >> we actually saw that with jeb. a guy who knew policy forward and backwards, but in 2016 it just didn't seem to be interpreted as well on the campaign trail. >> you have a lot of different branding and messages out there, you have donald trump make america great again. >> right. >> bernie sanders, the system is rigged. what is your message simply? >> break down the barriers so

america and americans live up to their potential. that is it. that's what i care about. that's what i've always done. that's what i'm talking about. i feel very comfortable talking about that. and it hit me because, look, i care deeply about the economic barriers, i think i have the best idea about how to help create jobs and get incomes rising and all the different things we have to do to get the economy growing but economic barriers are not the only things that hold people back. we were just talking about some of the gender-related issues that hold women back, there's race, there's lgbt discrimination, there's -- you know, a lot ofç reasons why people feel somehow pushed down or left behind. so using this barriers metaphor really works for me because it helps me organize everything i'm talking about, knocking down barriers to quality health, to good education. we are in a county here where we're doing this interview and it's one of the i-95 counties

that there was a big documentary saying it was the corridor of shame because the schools are so poor, they're falling down, kids are not being educated, they don't even have enough teachers. that's a big barrier. no matter how, you know, loving your family might be, you don't have those opportunities, that's going to hold you back. that's how you now think about what i want to do as president and it really helps me maybe do a better job of conveying that. >> so let me then ask you, you expressed concern about being held to a different standard as it pertains to the wall street speeches and you said you would release the transcripts when the republicans do. but isn't it more important perhaps to be transparent to democratic voters abotá what you said to big banks behind closed doors? >> well, i think i have been transparent. i have a record. i'm not coming to this for the first time. people can go back, they can look at what i said and what i did when i was a senator. i'm the one who called out wall street. i actually went to wall street

in '07. i said, you guys are going to wreck the economy. i went after hedge fund loopholes. >> so where did you say that? where did you say you guys -- >> back in december of 2007. i even ran an ad in the '08 campaign, it was in '07, warning about the mortgage crash and so i'm on record. i have gone after these guys, i have been pointing fingers at them, i've been introducing legislation. so people who want to know about my public record, it's there to see. people want to know what i will do as president, everybody says who has looked at it i have the best plan to reign in wall street to prevent them from ever doing what they did to us before and i just want -- i want to move toward a level playing field. as i said, happy to do it when everybody including republicans do it. >> don't you want to get ahead of it before somebody gets their hands onç these transcripts? >> no. i really don't. i want people -- i want people to look at my record. people are treating me sometimes

as though i just decided to run for president. i have been on the record on a lot of these issues for a really long time. the real question underneath this is, okay, if you take money from wall street can you regulate wall street? >> right. >> well, barack obama took more money from wall street than any candidate who has ever run for president, turned around, passed and signed the dodd-frank bill. so i think you should be judged on what you've done and i'm more than happy to put my record against bernie sanders. i mean, if you look at what caused the great recession, a bill he voted for in 2000 had a greater impact than most of the talk that we're now doing. let's get everybody out on the same field. i feel like, you know, i don't mind being responsive, i don't mind answering questions, but at some point i want everybody to have to answer. >> i respect that call. can you assure the american people that you didn't say anything in those speeches that would undermine your promise. >> absolutely. >> to be tough on wall street

and big banks? >> çabsolutely. and besides i'm on the public record. i've told them what i'm going to do. i've said i'm going to go after big banks that pose a systemic risk. i want you to hold me accountable for that because i will do that exactly. >> let's talk about this first of all. one of the kpleef complaints that everybody have is after the bail out the banks that were too big to fail got even bigger. haven't they? >> i think they have. >> whether it's bank of america or jpmorgan, any of these big banks -- >> well, know -- >> -- if they went down tomorrow we would all be on the line for that, right? >> no, we are not going to bail them out. they have gotten bigger but have been under much bigger scrutiny. >> if bank of america came to you -- let's just say any bank we found out that what happened to lehman brothers was going to happen to bank of america, your third week in office and they said, listen, this is very simple, you let us go down atm machines across america are going to shut down and our

people aren't going to be able to get their money. you have to save us or the economy collapses. >> i said under dodd-frank we have an orderly unwin ing of your bank because you are now posing a systemic risk. >> but madam president the markets will absolutely collapse. look how badly they collapsed after lehman brothers, we need you to step in now or you will be responsible for a global depression. >> we're going to do it in an orderly way so there will not be any surprises. the reason we passed dodd-frank was to make it clear no bank is too big to fail, no executive too powerful to jail. we've got to keep faith with the american people. i'm sorry that you've made bad decisions but we're going to have to unwind you and, yes, break you up. and parts of you will be very successful going forward and other parts won't and if there is any accountability that needs to be imposed on individual decisions we will also follow through on that. i think it's -- >> so you can make the guarantee today that if you're president

of the united states under no circumstances will there be a taxpayer funded bail out of these big banks? >> if they pose a systemic risk we've got the process under dodd-frank now. >> okay. >> the tools have been provided and we have to follow through on that. and the banks have to know that we will follow through. >> that's a guarantee of no taxpayer bailout? >> no, because that's what we tried to fix in dodd-frank. >> right. okay. >> my point too, though, joe, is this, i want to go further because if you really look at what happened in '07, '08 and you mentioned lehman brothers, it was investment banks like lehman brothers, big insurance companies like aig, mortgage companies like country wide. so the only culprits were not just the banks, there were others as well and i'm the only one with a plan who says, hey, guys, dodd-frank is great, it gives us the foundation, it doesn't go far enough. we need to look at these other entities that pose systemic risks as well. >> a champion on these issues a

elizabeth warren. do you see a role for her in this campaign -- >> this is a recurring theme. you can feel my pain right here. >> i have the highest regard for her. i think she's doing an amazing job. she signed a letter two years ago urging me to run for president and we consult regularly, my staffs consult regularly with her staff. so i am very --ç >> let me ask you this follow-up question -- >> very much interested in what she's doing and what she thinks we should be doing. >> let me ask mika's follow up question. will you consider her as vice president? >> i can't get presumptuous, right now i have to win the nomination and then i'm going to, you know, take a deep breath and maybe get a good night's sleep and then start thinking about that important decision. >> i wasn't going to ask that, but okay. >> you're glad i did. i want to ask you about something else we talked about on this show, bob woodward came with a big folder that said trump on it. he is going to be the next nominee and nobody has gone after him and i said, well, bob,

actually they've written all the articles, nothing seems to stick to him. and i said, the bigger question is not why the press hasn't investigated him, because they have, the question is why doesn't anything stick to him whereas everything seems to stick to hillary clinton? it's got to be frustrating first of all for you to see sort of the double standard not necessarily among the press but among the voters, but why do you think that is, that nothing sticks to donald trump but if you wrote something inç 1973 t press would be chewing on it for two weeks? >> or if you said something in 1994 someone would hold up a sign and take it out of context right in front of a speech you were doing. >> which you saw today which was absolutely ridiculous. >> i have a couple responses to this. i think part of the reason why i'm going to be the nominee and i'm going to be the next president is because i have with stood all this. i have been vetted. i mean, i've been at this for decades now and despite all the incoming i'm still here, i'm

still forging ahead because i think in most cases, most people kind of see through it and we go on together. the vetting on these other candidates has not even begun and it will and i think if you look my best -- my best memory on this, joe, is that the republicans in nevada had fewer voters turn out than we did in nevada. i think it was like 70,000 to 80,000. it's a very small group of people who are making this decision right now. when it moves to the general election i think you're going to see a real seriousness of people,ç whoever the republica nominate, turning and saying, what do we really know about this guy. >> it's most likely going to be donald trump, though, isn't it? >> right now it looks like that but i'm not going to handicap their race, i will let them decide that. >> how surprised are you knowing donald trump as long as you've known donald trump -- and i actually said she's exactly right when you answered the question why did you go to his wedding. he's fun, he's an interesting

guy, he's fun. >> yeah. >> how surprised are you that we woke up after nevada and everybody in washington said, oh, my god, this guy is most likely going to be the next nominee? >> i didn't know him that well but i did know him. >> right. >> i think it's been most surprising to me to see somebody who was affable and was good company and had a reputation of being kind of bigger than life really traffic in a lot of the prejudice and pair annoy i can't and some of the comments he has made which have been so divisive and mean spirited doesn't fit with what i thought i knew about him. it's going to be interesting to see if he does get the nomination what he decides to do with it, how he presents himself.ç but he has really been offensive and in many respects surprising to those of us who did know them. >> let's talk about the e-mail controversy, discoveries moving forward a couple days ago that

news broke. sometimes your spokes people will come out they'll say that this is a republican attack, it's -- it's about the right wing going after you again, but this obviously -- the fbi is involved, "the new york times" has been -- "the new york times" has been reporting on this for some time. so it's not like -- you could take elements of benghazi and say, okay, republicans were driving this. >> right. >> for a political purpose, but here you do have an fbi investigation. you're not suggesting the fbi investigation is politicized. >> no, but there's two different things. there is a security inquiry going on and, you know, we respect that, it is on its own timetable but it's moving forward. then there are these lawsuits and i think when people say, well, look, you know, this lawsuit, that's what they're talking about. they're not talking about the security çinquiry, they're talking about judicial watch -- >> not the underlying investigation. >> no, not at all.

no. so there are two different things, they get conflated sometimes. i am, you know, personally not concerned about it, i think that there will be a resolution on the security inquiry. the litigation that others have brought and some of them are, you know, right wing outfits, those will just proceed and, again, i'm not worried or concerned about them, but i do think it's important not to confuse the two. >> president clinton said governors and presidents can't afford to have long memories. >> yes. >> we've heard stories in the press before about how you're tough and you're driven and you remember people that slight you. when you're president of the united states is that your governing philosophy as well if you get elected president of the united states, that you need to have a short memory. >> absolutely. >> you need to wake up every morning and forget about what happened yesterday? >> when i got to the senate lindsey graham was my colleague. >> lindsay, yeah. >> and we started to get to know

each other. there was a lot of history there as yá÷ know, and then we teamed up to get healthcare for national guard members. i traveled with him and john mccain. we got to know each other and that is exactly what i will do. you know, there are very few people or events in politics where you say you've got to write somebody off. there are a couple where people do things that are just to inn i'm cabell and inn defensible, but otherwise you take people where they are, you try to get to know them better and then you try to find that common ground. when i was shepherding the new start treaty through the senate i had to get a bunch of republicans. i spent countless hours on the phone, in meetings. what do you need? how do we do this? what can i say to you to reassure you, what expert do you want to talk to? i'm really hands on about this because i don't think there's any way other than to do that.

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still ahead, reports of lead tainted water in another major city. this time jackson, mississippi. people line up for free water from the salvation army. we will look at a health crisis that should not be happening. do you think when you're president you'll be paid

as much as if you were man, male? do you think when you are president you will be paid as much as if you were a male? >> this is one of the jobs where they have to pay you the same. but there are so many examples where that doesn't happen. i'm going to do everything i can to make sure every woman in every job gets paid the same as the men who are doing that job.

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positive, if there's any silver lining out of this tragedy is it is my hope that the american people will look at flint and say, never again can we allow a community to undergo this. and while flint may be the canary in the coal mine, there are a lot of other canaries all over this country. >> that was bernie sanders speaking in flint, michigan, about the water crisis there. and now jackson, mississippi, has reported finding lead in its drinking water as well. i wonder if there's more to come. joining us now former white house adviser for health policy and vice pro voss for global initiatives at the university of pennsylvania dr. ez eek y'all people mule. also with us leading spine surgeon and author dr. dave campbell. >> zeke, what's it çmean, man?

what is lead now in jackson, mississippi, mean and i remember getting public service announcements like in the '60s saying don't let your kids eat lead. i can't believe we're talking about this 50 years later. >> my father was a leading campaigner against lead paint in chicago in the '60s, i very much remember the same thing and it causes brain damage, it causes an uptick in crime among the kids. >> how did this happen in jackson, mississippi, now? >> i think it's happening throughout the country. we know that we have hundreds of billions of dollars of problems with our water and sanitation system. we have not kept them up and the problem is that they're corroding and one of the corrosions is that lead leeches out and kids drink it. we all drink it and it's a problem for all of us, for kids in particular because they have developing brains. >> who is most at risk? >> by far young kids, babies that aren't even born yet because it targets the neurological system and the

changes that dr. zeke was talking about last forever to a certain extent. behavioral problems, learning problems, cognitiveç problems, all that stuff leads into adult life. >> guys, is this a precursor? can we expect over the next ten year 74 nor problems? >> that's what i'm worried about? >> it's a given that it's dangerous, the question is how prevalent is it and what's coming? >> if you look at the u.s. civil engineers they do an assessment of infrastructure in this country every few years and they have been warning that we have all these infrastructure problems, highways, bridges, but also water systems. i will tell you in my brother city, he is inn vesing over $4 billion to replace every pipe in the city of chicago and he has this nice pipe that they gave him, it's a log that was hollowed out in the late 1800s that was still carrying water in chicago. this is a big problem across the country. i don't think jackson,

mississippi, flint as someone said they are canaries in the coal mine and we have to invest. >> they are not exceptions. this is a case actually where a failure to invest in infrastructure actually is going to cause us long-term health risks? >> this was a little difb)ent. flint is much bigger than the canary in the coal mine. it was many, many times worse than jackson, mississippi. they were investing in some new infrastructure when this happened in flint, they were trying to save some money and it backfired because they didn't account for the chemical reactions that were occurring when they switched from lake huron water to the flint river. >> and we should also say lead is only one part of the water problem there. there was legionnaires' disease that has ended up killing seven or eight people and making about 90 people sick. so the water system actually has a lot of health implications and we -- i think we don't invest in our peril. this is one of those issues that should be bipartisan because it's the key for both health and in the long-term saves money.

>> in jackson the maximal lead dose was about 150 parts per billion. in flint it was 13,000 at its single peak. that's a tremendous difference. so the exposure of over 8,000 kids in flint is what we are all watching and waiting and worrying about and there is a whole lotç you can do about it once you're exposed, the treatments and drugs don't work well to reverse the effect. >> let's talk about the debate last night. healthcare again gets into it. donald trump keeps talking about the ability to negotiate across state lines with other insurance companies. that makes sense to me just like using our power as the biggest purchaser of drugs to get pharmaceutical companies to negotiate down a price. >> right. >> makes sense, too. i don't know like you said before that he can put all the meat on the bones but instincts seem right. do they or not? >> i don't think that's going to solve any problem and i will

tell you why. >> which one of those? >> well, allowing competition across state lines. >> the insurance companies. >> the affordable care act already permits that and actually every state keeps or retains its right to regulate insurance companies. so one of the problems is you can say whatever you want at the federal government, ultimately states have the veto power because of state insurance commissioners. >> why is there such a lack of insurance companies for healthcare? >> well, in many states, take alabama, you know, one insurer has about 80 or 90% of the market. >> why is that? >> blue cross blue shield. historical reasons and employers don't switch that much and they have, you know, done -- i think donald trump is right, typically in states not at the federal government but in states that are in bed with the legislators who -- by. >> by the way, can we get that on a loop, dr. zeke just said donald trump is right.

>> that the politician -- that the insurers have worked with politicians for a long time. >> doesn't it seem insane that you have like again in some states one insurance company dominating a market to the tune of 80%, when you have all of these other options, again, it's not market driven. so they've got everything by the throat. >> no, it is a problem and it's also a problem that with the new healthcare laws it is those insurance companies that set the copay and deductible. so this year, 2016, in practice i can tell you the deductible that kigq" in in in january has stopped thousands and hundreds of thousands of people from actually having access to the plan they have because they can't afford that. even though the bronze plan is fairly inexpensive you can't pay the copay or deduductibleductib >> you have university access to healthcare you just can't afford it. >> you cannot afford step one which is paying your deductible. >> how do we fix this?

how does the next president fix this? >> i do think we will probably see some limits on the deductibles and i think you already see employers beginning to shift off that, but the substitute is they need healthcare costs to stay under control and i think one thing they're going to be looking at is narrow networks and reducing the deductible for using those narrow networks. i think that's the trend. >> really quickly give me a report card on the affordable care act, all in, where we are now versus before it came, scale one to ten. march 23rd is six years. we've done pretty well. 17 million people have gotten insurance because of this, actually despite our talking about high healthcare costs the fact is that healthcare costs have(bden flat for the last few years. i mean, not flat but they've been much better under control. we have actually a lot more innovation. >> one to ten. >> one to ten i would say we are about a 7. >> so, dave, you practice every day on the front lines and have been, well before and after.

what do you rate the affordable care act? >> i would give it about a 3 because of the fact that you cannot access that 17 million people cannot access healthcare often because they are already fairly poor. >> well, first of all, they are fairly poor, but we put in the affordable care act that you get preventive care for free, no copays, no deductibles, we have made a lot of other changes that do allow people to get in especially when they're sick. i agree, are there reforms we need to do, yes, but we're much better than a 3. >> it's a 5. >> okay. zeke and dave. >> we were a lot better in january of 2016 in our hospital and surgery center where it was a void in january, schedules were blocked, my gi fellows and colleagues told me yesterday januarqç was a void it was because of the copays -- it was the deductible. >> the deductible we have to fix the deductible. >> we all agree on that. >> very good. >> okay. >> dr. zeke, dr. dave, thank you, guys. we love having you.

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young people used to think he was so cool. i mean, this was him in 2008. >> three-pointer right there. >> and now he's considered less cool than this guy.

he's playing basketball with pens in his pocket. hold on a second, that's 2 pointsç for me. >> welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what we learned today. donny. >> hillary clinton looked very, very relaxed, seems like you might have been a little too chummy with her in the interview. >> hillary? >> i don't know. it seemed a little just nice and friendly. >> i got it. >> too chummy, joe. >> exactly. exactly. >> what did you learn today, joe? >> you know, i learned that the debate last night was considered by most people a win for marco rubio, the question is does it have any impact in in race. i suspect it won't have as much of an impact here as it does moving forward for marco rubio because he will be back four years from now wanting to run for president again and he needed to hit back hard last night. he did. >> okay. and i learned that i -- hillary clinton has focused in on her

message and -- >> yeah, she looks strong. >> -- she has found her voice for this campaign. >> i think we all learned that. she is light years ahead of where she was a week or two ago. nevada has helped her relax and madeç her -- >> who has chuck todd got next? >> it's steve kornacki. steve kornacki picks up the hammer and our coverage from atlanta after a quick break. have a wonderful weekend, everyone.

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and good morning. i'm steve kornacki live in atlanta, georgia. we are at more house college today, home of the fighting maroon tigers. we will be talking to the school president, we will be talking to students, potential first time voters at this famous historically blaj college in this critical super tuesday state and super tuesday of course now just four days away, butç this morning we are goingo start we are where all eyes are and that is on the republicans and last night's show down in houston. what a showdown it was, marco rubio finally taking off the gloves and going after donald trump, something his supporters had been urging him to do for months