isz . i have to say this. he hit my hands. nobody has ever hit my hands. i never heard of this one. look at those hands. are they small hands? [ cheers and applause ] and he referred to my hands, if they're small something else must be small. i guarantee you there's no problem. >> you got pretty big hands. >> see? my hands are big. this is the problem with politicians. they're all talk. they give you stuff and people -- you know, i have good sized hands.

>> what about the schoolyard taunts of the debate? i mean, there were references -- >> i don't see schoolyard taunts. >> -- to hands and -- >> see how beautiful my hands are? those are powerful hands. hit a golf ball 285 yards. i was very proud to hold my hands up because these are politicians. they say things and they make things up and, you know, you have to clear up the record. >> clear up the record. wow. >> so, willie, it's come to that. we get the measuring stick out. >> i just said we've reached the portion of the campaign that's a literal blank measuring contest. >> i'm amazed marco rubio didn't turn to him and say "prove it." right there. >> politifact is working on it right now. >> no, what's funny is the fix at the "washington post" a couple days ago came out with a scientific view. >> on stands in. >> took all the hands -- [ laughter ] >> we're going start with the hands right there. that's where your mind is

willie. >> sorry, misunderstood. >> look at him showing his hands and they explained yes, his hands are normal for a gay who's 6'3". >> this is the election for the person that's going to run the biggest military and the biggest economy in the world, right? >> it is. >> i didn't drift off somewhere. >> election for president of the fraternity. >> what's remarkable is grayden carter started this by making up a line back 25, 30 years ago in "spy" magazine, greatest magazine ever. >> a short fingered vulgarian. >> i have to say quickly before we dive into everything and also that mitt romney press conference. dude, if you're going to get into the pool, jump in. jump in or go and put the towel on. it was just kind of depressing. and i know everybody is saying marco hit him, hit him, hit him,

hit him. i've always said marco was too young and inexperienced and not ready to run for pakistresident. but that's 2016. i've said stay in the senate, be governor, run in 2020 and you'll probably be ready. i'm just afraid for his sake and his part soa his supporters sake talking about trump wetting his pants. what happens if trump runs and loses to hillary clinton? there's marco who has diminished himself? you know what i'm saying? it doesn't seem worth it. he's going against his brand. we're chain saw repair shop, we're a chain shaw repair shop, oh, you need your nails filed? come on in. beautiful. >> unless four years from now he's able to say hillary clinton's president, marco rubio runs again. he can say listen the donald trump thing was a unique

phenomenon it was once in a lifetime, we'll never see it before, we'll never see it again, i did what i did to do to fight this guy fighting on ground we've never fought before. but besides john kasich, it was an embarrassing night: absolutely. >> the way they addressed each other and ted cruz while it was funny kind of talking and coaching trump through yoga, breathe, breathe, you can do it. there was -- fox tried their level obesity best to get subst but the debate was depressing. >> i was exhausted by the end of the day, kind of drained having watched romney and trump's reply to romney and the debate you felt like you wanted to come home and have a sauna or hot shower. >> and then marco made the joke, the punchline saying "well, he's flexible" on the yoga front and everybody laughed and there were people tweeting that was the moment of the night. i'm sitting there going "that's the moment of the night?" it's not fun anymore.

all of them need to know it's not funny anymore. we're electing a president, one of the most vital times for the country where our representation across the globe was shattered. where the u.s. economy while it seems to be doing better if you look at unemployment numbers you have stagnant wages. still have billions and billions of dollars offshore. look at what the democrats have been doing. the democrats have been talking about issues and substance. >> i say two things. it may be a low bar. i thought it was more civil than houston which was a complete gang of whatever. >> maybe that was just because the first time we saw it was houston and i think we've got used to it. >> i think the fox moderators did a good job. >> excellent job. >> and when they brought up the charts to basically say, well, you say you're going to cut hundreds of billions of dollars from pharma but we only spend $80 billion a year on drugs, i

thought they got trump to be more specific than he's been. >> lall right. the debate was in detroit. the remaining presidential candidates met for the 11th time and one of the question from the fox news moderators dealt with the recent attacks from marco rubio to the size of donald trump's hands. >> can you believe that, though? >> the first out of the box? >> out of the box. they're talking about the size of donald trump's hands. can i say -- >> but that's not what they were exactly talking about. >> but if they are fighting, though, on that ground, donald trump wins. all of this we're talking about, donald trump wins. he's up 20 points in all of these polls. they're playing right into his hands. as david axelrod told me the other day donald trump is somehow allowed. the football team he's playing against to play on his side of the field the entire time. >> yeah, now, in fairness trump brought that up on some other

topic. he said "and by the way little marco, which is what he called him, lying ted and little marco. he brought up my hands and went into the other thing riff. so after that insult, more insults continued into the night. the candidates debated poll numbers, immigration, honesty, even height. >> he has spent a career convincing americans he's something he's not exn exchange for their money, now he's trying to do that in exchange for their country. >> this little guy has lied so much about my record. >> here we go. you see what happens when you challenge him on a policy issue? you asked him about the economy and the first thing he does is launch an attack about some little guy thing. because he doesn't have answers and he's asking us to make him -- >> i have a policy question for you, sir. >> let's see if he answers it. >> i will, don't worry about it, marco. don't worry about it, little marco, i will. don't worry about it, little marco. >> gentlemen -- >> you want -- >> you have to do better than

this. >> i watched a cnn interview donald did where he explained. he said, well, the problem is you can't find americans who are qualified who are want to work as waiters and waitresses. let me ask the people here, how many here have worked as a waiter or waitress? [ applause ] you know how many americans wanted those jobs? roughly 300 applied. donald hired 17. what's been reported is that donald told the editorial board of the "new york times" what i'm saying on immigration i don't believe. i won't build a wall or deport people. this is just rhetoric for the voters. if, in fact, you went to manhattan and said i'm lying to the american people, then the voters a right to know. >> you're the lying guy up here. you're the one. >> release it. >> excuse me. i've given my answer, lying ted, i've given my answer. >> he scam it had people of florida. he scammed the people -- he doesn't vote. he doesn't show up to the u.s.

senate, he doesn't vote. he scammed the people. he defrauded the people of florida. >> you've made that point. go ahead. >> as you can see in his answer, it's the same thing. >> you defrauded the people of florida, little marco. >> let me ask the voters at home. this is this debate you want playing out in the general election? >> i tell you what i don't want playing out and i've said it before, the crowds. who is that good for? just the cheering and the booing. mike, you said it sounded like a hockey game. >> not only that, it looked like -- you know at a baseball game people seated behind home plate trying to wave. what happened there? two things struck me. one was the crowd -- well, a couple things. john kasich's temperament, the idea he didn't say "i've had it, i'm out of here." he proved he had the temperament to be president and the third thing i was stunned that they didn't go after donald more on taxes, on his lack of -- you know, failure to give us his tax

returns which is a point of vulnerability that he clearly wants to avoid. >> well, mark halperin, you were there and looks like you've gotten the mud off of you. give us your report card. explain it. >> as always, my report card is based on performance and whether the candidate helped himself become the more likely nominee. i thought john kasich had his best debate. i gave him a b-plus. he told stories about his record on the campaign trail and in ohio. this is a state where he wanted to do better than he's going to do but he positioned himself to be part of the conversation which i've been surprised he's not been. trump and cruz i gave bs to. i thought ted cruz did a better job than marco rubio of going after donald trump and connecting it to things voters might care about. marco rubio i gave a b-minus. more scattered. he went for one-liners on trump and didn't do as good a job

connecting things to voters. i agree with mike, i'm surprised they didn't go more to the tax returns, i'm surprised fox moderators didn't go after that. that's the thing mitt romney brought up yesterday. it's one of the pending issues with donald trump that's a legitimate issue and where he's not been forthcoming. >> didn't it -- wasn't in the the fall of the election when mitt romney released his tax returns? >> september. >> he put out some earlier and some later. >> and then he put out all of them later in september? >> he put out a lot around the south carolina primary and then he had -- that year's return was delayed. so donald trump has cleverly brought up this notion that romney put his returns out later. he put them out -- he put some out later but some earlier and his people have said donald trump could release returns from years that aren't currently under audit or tell us what his effective tax rate, is et cetera. >> let's look at your report card. you look at this report card and if this ends up being how most

people score the debate and you look at the polls where trump is as far ahead as he is in the contests that are coming up, you probably agree with me that last night didn't change a thing. >> it didn't change much. i'd say it only potentially changed two things in the margin. doesn't change trump's commanding position, the extreme likelihood he'll be the nominee. i think it gives john kasich another look which he needs badly. he needs to win ohio and i think this will help him get another look nationally and where other key primaries are coming up. and i think in this battle between ted cruz and marco rubio to be the more relevant figure, based on super tuesday and what happened last night ted cruz can argue he is the more relevant figure this battle to stop donald trump. >> you think all of marco's one liners, all the talk about wetting pants, engaging in donald trump's -- the size of donald trump's extremities, all of these things you think that actually plays to cruz and makes

marco less relevant? >> like i said, i thought cruz when he went after trump did a better job of connecting it up to policy. connecting it up to say to voters this is what trump is like with my one liner here's what i'm like. i think marco rubio is trying to find his footing in this new mode where there were more just one-liners as opposed to one-liners voters could look at and hear and say okay, that's what rubio is for, i like rubio, he's hitting trump but telling me what he's for. i thought cruz did a much better job of that. >> so during the debate we had all these personal attacks, we had rubio and cruz attacking donald trump on foreign policy, attacking he's not a conservative but at the end of the debate the candidates vowed to come together and back whomever ends up with the republican nomination. that would seem to undercut marco rubio who has been using the hashtag "never trump." >> can you definitively say you will support the republican nominee even if that nominee is

donald j. trump? senator rubio, yes or no? >> i'll support the republican nominee. >> mr. trump, yes or no. yes or no, you will support donald trump if he's the nominee. >> yes, because i gave my word that i would. >> yeah, and i kind of think that before it's all said and done i'll be the nominee, but let me also say -- [ cheers and applause ] >> can you definitively say tonight that you will definitely support the republican nominee for president even if it's not you. >> even if it's not me? [ laughter ] millions and millions of people have come to the republican party over the last little while. it's the biggest thing happening in politics and i'm very proud to be a part of it and i'm going to give them some credit, too, even though they don't deserve it. but the answer is yes, i will. >> okay. >> a lot of people have said that before, that they'll back donald trump but given the attacks on him, all the con man and the establishment attacks on

donald trump it's kind of remarkable to watch people sit on the stage and tear the guy down and say "we can not have him president" then say "i'll support him in the end." >> and i think marco rubio is hurt the most from all of those because he's been putting that hashtag up, katty, "never trump:" and that's become a rallying cry. rubio jumped on it. last night he undercut himself which actually plays to type for conservatives who are putting #nevertrump. he moves around and he always does it. we saw it in realtime. he went from being chuck schumer's buddy on immigration reform to wanting to put tanks at the border practically. >> this is really interesting. marco rubio moves around, clearly, and the never trump but yes i'll support him is an example. but then we had during the course of the debate, fox news put up a series of three different graphics on which donald trump has moved around and his answer was "yeah, i

changed positions." and somehow from donald trump -- >> it worked. >> -- it's fine and it worked and his supporters will like him for it. marco rubio doesn't seem to manage to get away it with. >> you foe why? because trump says "i changed positions." or people hold trump to a much lower standard than they hold marco rubio who does look at times, i said it for six months and people said, oh, you hate him. he looks pre-programmed and he looks like a robot. so when he does that, he never gives an inch on anything. when he loses and is humiliated, he goes up and stands on stage and says "tonight is the night that they will remember that he turned our campaign around." i mean, it's -- and people are like come on, just tell us the truth. and at least with trump, you know, he'll say, yeah, i changed my position and it just -- also i think people hold him to a much lower standard, i don't know why. but, yeah. >> i don't know if it's a lower standard -- >> but if marco is goi

going #nevertrump, then -- >> but i can see him saying never that and then his support -- i can see trump doing that and people saying fine. >> i think you're right they hold him to a much different standard than traditional politicians. >> and he proves that unlike everybody on that stage he has never run for public office before. he's not a politician. he gives the normal human response, yeah, i changed may mind. >> but on the afghanistan he clearly wilg lly wiggles. when he heard the word afghanistan repeatedly and he said "oh, i thought they were talking about iraq." >> but the peculiarity of trump's personality is he will never admit he's wrong. if you say "you're wrong" he'll go of an a tirade or tangent and say "i was wrong about that."

>> nor does he answer a question. about trump university, say. >> it's so funny, everybody's heads are exploding, the media's response, why don't you ask the follow-up question? well, we do. no, you don't, yes, we do. but you keep going after him, he keeps answering the way he wants. we had a senator that said "the press has been too easy on him. have you ever talked about the dang danger?" i said we have, this is looking like germany in 1933, is that strong enough? yeah, but have you asked about dictators and tyrants and we said, yeah, you know he's assassinated journalists. people are frustrated and they're blaming the media because donald trump gets away with being donald trump and not answering the question the way they want it answered and not answering the follow-up and the follow-up and the follow-up. >> he won't answer. >> the people -- and you know

what, his supporters don't care. >> don't care. >> because they see allover us as the enemy. including my brother on some days. so after the -- after super tuesday john heilemann was tweeting from the obama team that helped president obama get elected and he noticed that they seemed to be getting the trump phenomenon better than republicans. and i talked to several of them. john favreau, david axelrod and others and they all came -- i said what is it about trump that you get? what is it? john favreau, i thought it was fascinating, said "when we were writing speeches for obama, he never said give me lofty rhetoric, he said make sure you write like people talk, i don't want to sound like a politician." and john favreau, david axelrod, everybody, they went back to the

fact that unlike everybody else out there this year, donald trump talks like a person. like how people talk to each other. as john favreau said, like your cranky uncle talks when he's watching tv on thanksgiving day and people relate to that and maybe they cut him more slack because he talks like people talk when they talk to each other. not with the lofty rhetoric a"ad i truly do believe that america's greatest days lie ahead." come on, i want to kill myself. just stop. >> that's one of the ways he's shattered -- we overuse the term establishment, but everything that's been done in the past. everything we knew about politics, according to donald trump, is untrue. he's the guy at the end of the bar, the national id, he's tapping into something that has not been expressed through

politics before. >> and john podhoretz needs to trademark the name "america's id." >> you can go four blocks from here to the new york diner on 57th street, go in, have breakfast, you won't hear anyone who sounds like ted cruz or marco rubio sitting there having breakfast. >> right. >> you'll hear people who sound -- despite his wealth, which we don't know what it is -- exactly like donald trump. >> whether you're in manhattan, whether you're in alabama, whether you're in nevada, yes, you will. it may be what the difference is. mark halperin, so last night's debate probably didn't change anything. let me just ask you, we'll go around the table quickly. i'll just tell you my opinion right up front, i think mitt romney probably helped donald trump pick up five points yesterday because he didn't jump in the race. if he jumped in the race and said "i'm going to win california," that's one thing, but an establishment guy

attacking trump, we're going to show the clips, i think that's a win for donald trump, what do you think? >> i think there's an upside for trump to push back against romney. let's just go back to this question of will people say they'll never vote for him. i think it makes people look like politicians to say -- those guys on the stage to say stump is the worst guy, he's horrible but i'll vote for him in the end. i think mitt romney helped to clarify for people? the party what could be decisive if trump is stopped at the convention which is drawing a line and saying unacceptable, he can't be our nominee. so i think he nave the short-term been a mix thing for trump and helped him in some ways but longer term if trump will be stopped, mitt romney will play a parent in that. >> if i had said the things people said about donald trump, i would have had to answer "no way." because if you think he's a scam artist, if you really think all these things they said of him, how can you say "yes, i support him." >> absolutely. >> that's why people hate

politics. do you think the mitt romney thing helps or hurts trump? >> i don't think one person who supports donald trump was changed by what mitt romney had to say. are there persuadable people still out there? i think he was speaking to people who already don't like donald trump. are there some people in the middle he might have persuaded? i guess. but to me i think now what i thought going into it which is that the very face of the establishment last time around attacking donald trump only helps. >> you can imagine in the general when he is taking on hillary clinton that the clinton campaign is dissecting and thinking we'll package this bit and that bit. and it's useful fodder for them. and if there are 6% to 8% of people in the mid-who will are undecided, it can work. >> they're telling us we have to go. when we come back we'll talk about mitt romney and still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> he's plague the member playif the american public for suckers. he gets a free ride to the white house and we get a lousy hat.

>> the former republican presidential nominee takes his best shots at donald trump. plus we'll have more with former white house press secretary ari fleisher. also former presidential candidate jim webb joins us on set. that should be great. also chuck todd will break down the chances of a brokered convention between donald trump and everybody else. first, here's bill karins. he's got a check on the forecast. bill? >> hopefully the last snow, right, joe? we have our fingers crossed. a slippery morning from new york city southward along the mid-atlantic coastline to norfolk. this is where we saw as much as five inches of snow in maryland last night. most was one to two inches from new york city south whereas the timing of this -- by the time we get to 10:00 a.m., it's gone, it's off the coast. this afternoon will be dry so the worst is this morning for the next few hours and winter holds on from the great lakes to the northeast. this will probably be the coldest weekend until next winter. we do a pattern switch, we get the warm air from the west heading east and stormy weather

will be in california for the next ten to 14 days so saturday is very chilly. chicago, minneapolis, but watch what happens. we zbrump the 40s 50,s, near 60s in places like st. louis and minneapolis. a little warmer in the east but we should see temperatures in the 60s and '70s throughout tuesday, wednesday, thursday next week. so a big improvement but all of our attention will be out west and our friends in california getting the needed rains but they'll also deal with flooding. leaving you with a shot of washington, d.c. many reports of one to two inches. secondary roads are slippery. main roads look like they're moving just fine. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. some research. let me introduce you to our broker. how much does he charge? i don't know. okay. uh, do you get your fees back if you're not happy? (dad laughs) wow, you're laughing. that's not the way the world works. a

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there are four more elections for republican this is weekend and yesterday mitt romney met donald trump head on as we mentioned trying to stop trump's move saying he would support ted cruz or marco rubio or john kasich instead. point by point romney dressed trump down on everything from his economic policy to foreign policy to his intelligence and temperament saying there is "plenty of evidence trump is a con man and a fake" and that his

nomination would enable hillary clinton to march to the oebl offi office. >> let me put it plainly -- if we republicans choose donald trump as our nominee, the prospects for a safe and prosperous future are greatly diminished. you say, wait, wait, wait, isn't he a huge business success? doesn't he know what he's talking about? no, he isn't, and no he doesn't. [ cheers and applause ] his bankruptcies have crushed small businesses and the men and women who work for them. he inherited his business, he didn't create it. and whatever happened to trump airlines? how about trump university? then there's trump magazine and trump vodka and trump steaks and trump mortgage. a business genius he is not. here's what i know -- donald trump is a phony, a fraud. his promises are as worthless as the degree from trump university. [ cheers and applause ]

donald trump tells us he is very, very smart. [ laughter ] i'm afraid when it comes to foreign policy he is very, very not smart. this is an individual who mocked a disabled reporter. who attribute add reporter's questions to her menstrual cycle. who mocked a brilliant rival who happened to be a woman due to her appearance. who bragged about his marital affairs and who laces his public speeches with vulgarity. donald trump says he admires vladimir putin. at the same time, he's called george w. bush a liar. that is a twisted example of evil trumping good. he's not of the temperament of the kind of stable, thoughtful person we need as leader. his imagination must not be married to real power. >> look, mitt is a failed candidate. he failed horribly. i backed him. you can see how loyal he is.

he was begging for my endorsement. i could have said "mitt, drop to your knees," he would have dropped to his knees. he was begging. he was begging me. it was a campaign that should have never been lost. you're running against a failed president. he came up with the 47%. he demeaned 47% of the people in our country, right? the famous 47%. obama, say what you want, he was on jay leno, he was on david letterman the last three, four weeks. mitt was looking for zoning for a nine-car garage or something in california, right? >> so, katty, you want to tell us about yesterday? what kind of day was it? >> it was a very phallic day on the campaign trail. >> it was. >> and it was that day where you got to the the end of the day seriously when i felt i wanted a shower because it was so disgusting. and i can't believe there were not a lot of women watching that day, like i was, who thought

"this is gross. this is what we have come to. i do not want to hear this stuff during the course of my day. it's kind of offensive that you have to sit and listen to this language as a woman, a man talking like that on television running for president. >> donald trump says he was referring to romney getting on his knees to beg, but i have to say, i don't shock easily, i think you know that. none of us do anymore but that line from trump i went, whoa. and then the line at the debate where he was talking about his hands. whoa. and that doesn't happen very often. >> mark halperin, there has to be some scar tissue that is impacting the republican party in the fall election. what is the impact in this primary fight in march? >> i think it will depend when

donald trump secures the nomination. there are some people in the party who won't vote for him but the vast majority of people in the party said they will be for whoever the nominee is, including donald trump. >> by the way, can you talk about how significant it is for donald trump in a positive way and how negative it is for marco rubio that rupert murdoch, who was hostile toward trump is sending out smoke signals and tweets that the republicans need to just shut up and line up behind donald trump because he's going to be the nominee and you're seeing also "new york" magazine writing stories about how fox news has abandoned marco rubio which shocking because i've never seen a candidate treated better by any network -- well, other than msnbc bowing and scraping to barack obama in 2008. but other than that -- remember that. every night, like hillary clinton would win kentucky and it would be like "tonight, the

racism rises over lexington." i mean, every time hillary won there's like "the ghost of jefferson davis rises somewhere over a confederate cemetery in richmond, virginia, where barack obama was beaten." i mean, that was pretty bad, wasn't it. >> who are you impersonating. >> was that churchill? that was a slight churchillian -- >> sir, i'm not telling you who that was but he called george w. bush a nazi everyday. so let's go back to -- anyway, it's big news, is it not, mark halperin, that fox news has apparently dropped their endorsement of marco rubio and are saying trump is inevitable. the guy they've been fighting against all the this time other than han anity, it seems things have changed. >> i think you've identified one voice, rupert murdoch, you can look at what sean hannity and

rush limbaugh said yesterday about trump versus romney. you could look at chris christie obviously. but it's remarkable, right, in the wake of what happened on super tuesday. trump's gotten no major endorsements this week of the caliber of a chris christie, et cetera, instead, you've had romney, mccain and others coming out against him. in terms of unity, if he gets a majority before the convention, he will reach out to people and be very charming, be very solicitous. he know he is needs to unite the party. and i want to say since you didn't ask me on the previous topic, i wanted to note last night's debate gave new meaning to the phrase "the donald." >> i get it. i get it. >> katty, it goes into the morning. >> i was fright. >> today is phallic friday. >> there is a mother somewhere in -- >> halperin gave it a name. >> that just spit out her

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can i answer a question? [ laughter and applause ] >> i really hope we don't ceo ga on this stage. >> well, he's very flexible so you never know. [ cheers and applause ] >> we're going to take a break to take a few deep breaths of our own. doesn't move. doesn't move. coming up next, we have the "wall street journal's" mary kissel and pissed off. are you, mary? are you upset? i'm just joking. >> she looks good. she's fine. >> looks happy. >> mom and dad were just joking. she's standing by and why she's zeroing in on foreign policy in the dividing line in the republican race for president. mary is -- always fun to have her. >> she's ready to go. >> we'll be right back.

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all right, with us now, we have mary kissle from the "wall street journal" editorial board. >> is that how you introduce every guest? an angry guest? >> got up early, schlepped out of bed. >> i don't remember other guests being introduced that way but thanks. >> listen, i only said the only reason i got elected is because in '94 i wouldn't read the rnc talking points i'd read the "wall street journal" editorial page so i'm one of the most loyal readers every time. >> that's great. >> you guys are angry. we had bret stephens here yesterday. we had to take him out and put oxygen on him he was so wired. how are you feeling this morning? >> i feel tired. it's friday morning. it's been a long week and that was one heck of a debate last night. >> what about the whole day? a lot of -- what did you call it, katty? >> a phallic day.

>> i would call it a vulgar debate but a very revealing debate about donald trump. it became very clear if it wasn't already clear that the guy just makes things up as he goes along and i thought the fox moderators did a terrific job in calling him out on entitlement reform, putting the numbers up and saying, look, you can't reform entitlements by getting rid of waste, fraud, and abuse. your numbers don't add up, his flip-flop on assault weapons bans, his flip-flop on high-skilled workers and immigration. he put out a statement this morning that was different than what he said last night. >> but, mary, we knew that. when we had a town hall meeting i talked about entitlement reform and i said it doesn't add up. >> but voters don't pay attention until they have to. >> but i'm saying i don't think they're paying attention now. do you? >> i think voters rely on incentives and their incentive is to pay attention when an election impacts them personally and when the vote is coming up. >> but, mary, do you think it

will have dissuaded any people who supported trump? >> trump seems to have a ceiling. it's around 30% to 35%. so people -- mary, he's at 49% in the latest national poll! >> but look who's voted. >> look at the average of the people who have actually voted. >> i'm saying, though, there's always a momentum to this and as we've said if he wins new hampshire he'll blow through south carolina and the deep south and the latest -- i guess it's a cnn poll -- has him up. >> i think we'll find out where the momentum lies and whether he can get past ohio and florida. >> how many people were polled in that cnn poll? 300? you. >> you're sounding like walter mondale in 1984 now. any time somebody starts asking questions like that from a reputable poll, you're like, okay, mondale, you'll lose 49 states tonight. >> look, the voters will get the

candidate they want. there's no incentive on for the guys on that stage to drop out. you saw a clear division between the candidate last night and it became very clear early on that trump has no principles, he has no policies and he's making it up. >> marco rubio last night said if donald trump was the nominee he would endorse and support donald trump. if donald trump is the republican nominee, will the "wall street journal" editorial page support donald trump? >> if you read us everyday, joe, you know we don't endorse candidates. >> you do everything but endorse candidates. >> we talk about policy. we try to help readers -- >> i read your paper everyday! i know who you like, who you hate, who you loathe, who you adore. >> so then that's a nonsense question. >> no, it's not a nonsense question. >> because we talk about policy. >> so you all will be framing the presidential race as you do every four years between hillary clinton and donald trump. are you going to frame in the donald trump's favor? hillary clinton's favor.

>> if donald trump is the nominee, we'll analyze his policies just as we would analyze hillary's. in many respects he's very similar to hillary. he doesn't want any kind of entitlement reform. he thinks government should create jobs. he hasn't talked about things like, for example, school choice which kasich talked about last night which is the only way to reform public schools. by the way, one of the spokespeople for hillary is the teachers' union chief. so we will talk about what the consequences of his policies, if he has nominated. i think last night the interesting thing to me was that ted cruz actually came out with a very respectable and cogent electability argument. cruz essentially said, look, i'm a adult, i'm not a vulgarian, i'm a conservative, i'll appoint a supreme court justice who's conservative and i have real policies here, go and look at it and examine and i have won four states and i beat hillary in the national polls. it was a strong argument. i think it was a good night. >> but cruz has a set of

policies on the extreme end of the conservative ideology. >> what do you mean by that? >> the flat tax. >> that's not extreme. >> well, it depends -- >> it's extreme to you. it's extreme to democrats but not -- >> it's extreme to the american people. >> no, it isn't, it's the fairest tax. >> well, they've had a progressive income tax for over a hundred years. i think suddenly telling them they have a flat tax -- and his vat would turn the tax system inside out and upside down and it's highly regressive. >> that's your opinion. >> well, regressive is an opinion. >> absolutely not. >> there are facts. >> what's fairer than a 10 detective -- >> i didn't say fair, i said highly regressive. it provides more benefits for those at the top than the bottom. that's a fact. >> so we have a white board with a couple math formulas. right now we need to get to peggy noonan's op-ed. for that we get away from math and go to english with katty kay. >> this is interesting, talking of the "wall street journal." peggy noonan is writing "the republican party is shattering.

i think we are seeing a great political party shatter before our eyes. i'm not sure i see a way around or through. we are witnessing history. something important is ending, it's hard to believe what replaces it will be better. no one knows where this goes. the top of the party and the bottom have split. they disagree on the essentials. the gop elite is about to spend a lot of money and hire a lot of talent quickly to try to kill trump off in the next two weeks. it will no doubt do mr. trump some damage, but not much. it will prove to trump supporters that what they think is true -- their guy is the only one who will stand up to the establishment, so naturally the establishment is trying to kill him." >> and mark halperin that goes to the point we were making about mitt romney being the face of the establishment trying to kill him. to mary's point that there's no incentive for either of these other candidates, rubio, cruz or john kasich, i nut there as well, to get out of the race at this point, what is the outcome

by which donald trump does not become the nom see in if they can't get to 1237, if he doesn't get to 1213, they hang in long enough, how do you take the nomination away from donald trump? >> well, look, if you look at what you were talking about before, is mitt romney or john mccain going to influence trump supporters? no. what mitt romney and others are trying to activate are donors and people who may not vote because they don't understand the stakes, they don't understand if they don't vote donald trump will be the nominee. it's a three-step process. they have to deny him a majority of delegates. i think chuck will talk about this later. if you run the numbers, if trump doesn't win ohio and florida it's very possible, even if he continues to win at the rate he's winning, to deny him the delegates. >> so california, oregon, washington state, those qualifying dates have not come up. are those winner take alls or are those proportional? >> california is winner take all statewide, i believe. there are not that many winner

take all states. winner take all -- south carolina was kind of winner take all because they had an exemption. then florida and ohio are. there's only eight total winner take all states. >> so that's what i don't understand. if mitt romney wanted to stop donald trump, then mitt romney should have announced yesterday that he was going to run on the west coast. that he was going to run in california, he was going to run in oregon, he was going to run in washington state. if romney wins those states and kasich or somebody else wins ohio, rubio or somebody else wins florida then, yes, trump is stopped. but just giving a speech isn't enough to do it. he will have to jump in the race and win on the west coast. >> not necessarily. california vote on the last day with new jersey and i think three other states. the three-step process is keep him from getting a majority, then make the case to the public at the convention that the rules are you need a majority to be nominated. going to the convention with the most delegates doesn't guarantee

you the nomination. then you have to find somebody to stop him at the convention. >> if things stay the same, he'll get the majority. he's way ahead in michigan and the other states and florida. trust me, if there's not a change in dynamics like mitt romney jumping into the race and trying to shake things up and giving an alternative -- rubio is not an alternative. cruz is not an alternative. kasich has to prove he can start winning before people see him as an alternative. there has to be a fundamental change in the dynamics or trump wins this. >> and i think it's hard if trump has 1230 delegates or some number right, that it will be hard to deny him the nomination. >> mary kissel, stay with us. we'll talk to the chairman of mississippi republican party. plus, the leader of cpac explains why the rise of donald trump and what it means for the conservative cause. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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coming up next hour, former white house press secretary ari fleisher joins us to weigh in on this race. plus, jim webb, who toyed with an independent run for president after ending his bid for democrat. all that and more when "morning joe" comes right back.

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>> with mitt i just wanted to tell you that he came out, it was very nasty, i thought he was a better person than that. i did help him. i raised money for his campaign, we had a fund raiser in my apartment in trump tower and because everybody's shoes were so wet, i ruined my carpet. this carpet was wiped out and nobody thanked me for the carpet. hey, maybe i can send mitt a bill for carpet ruined, right? >> this was -- >> yeah, man, it really tied the room together. >> this was a valued -- >> yeah. >> tie what tied the room together? >> my rug. >> were you listening to the dude's story, donnie? were you listening to the dude's story. >> i was bowling. >> that rug tied the room together, did it not? [ laughter ] >> we have to give a hat tip

where a hat tip is due. >> laura kim, our producer. >> laura kim, thank you for that. it really tied the room together, man. >> can we just watch lebowski for the rest of the show? >> shut up, donnie. >> we need to run that clip at the end of the block, too. welcome back to "morning joe," it's friday, march 4. mika, of course, is in the south of france. >> nice today? >> i think it's nice today. >> yes, if it's friday it must be nice. >> monaco is tomorrow. >> she goes down the coast tomorrow. >> she does her whole princess grace thing. >> i hope not the whole princess grace thing. >> well, she doesn't drive off a cliff or anything like that. i'm talking like you know princess grace, you know 1960s, 1970s. it must be nice. everyday a different place. and there is willie going to be one or two people this morning that, like, think she's actually there. >> yeah. and she's faxing in the must-reads. >> instead of doing what we know she's doing which is, you novkn

vacuuming and smoking a cigarette and watching soap operas. let's introduce everybody. it's mike barnicle, legendary columnist in. >> legendary. >> member of the "wall street journal" editorial board, host of "opinion journal" on "wall street journal" live, mary kissel. >> very angry, angry. >> no, she's good. >> angry. [ laughter ] >> look at the smile on her face. >> it's okay: >> treasury official "morning joe" analyst huge fan of the flat tax steve rattner. >> regressive taxation until the economy is choked to death. >> we've only had it for a hundred years. >> who needs reform? >> and managing editor of bloomberg politics mark halperin. also joining us, moderator of "meet the press" and host of "mtp daily" chuck todd. let's go to the smart political guys first and start with you, chuck todd.

talk about the debate last night. what was your big take away? >> i'm still sort of shell-shocked from the beginning of it where, i guess, donald trump decided not to be so presidential there in the first part of it. look, it was a -- i think it was a tough debate for donald trump that probably has no impact on h him. i thought tommy krizanoved cruz. i thought most of it was trump debating the moderators. it was different. it wasn't -- i didn't feel like the engagement between the four was as interesting as the engagement between trump and the moderators. >> so what changes the dynamics of the race? >> well, i think john kasich had a good enough debate that i feel like i see a path for him to win ohio. and, look, this is what this campaign is about now, right? it's about -- for the next 12 days it's about florida and

ohio. can rubio win florida and kasich win ohio? if they both do it, trump can't get to the -- has to con go to the convention in order to win this thing. if he wins one of those two states he can win this thing without a convention. so if you look at it in what changed the dynamics, john kasich showed life. that's good for john kasich's chances in ohio. >> so we're talking an awful lot mark halperin about florida and ohio. ohio is a bit closer. florida, though, still a very heavy lift for marco rubio, isn't it? >> very heavy, but a lot of resources are going to go in. there will be pressure on the rubio campaign to follow the romney plan and scale back their efforts in other states voting between now and on the 15th. you've got primaries and caucuses on saturday, tomorrow, that i think could set up very well for trump not to do well or as well as he's been doing. they're closed, they're caucuses. those have been events he hasn't done as well in. you've got cpac, you've got michigan. all that is setting up before a week from tuesday when, again, as chuck said, florida and ohio

are so key but if rubio focuses on florida and if kasich focuses on ohio, let's see what happens. the math duds not set up great. as well as donald trump is doing, as overwhelming a favorite as he is the math does not look great for him if other people can make progress between now and the end of the nominating season. >> mary, we were talking in the the break. you see it as perfectly in plausible that donald trump does not get the majority of the delegates. the whole brokered convention thing used to be a fantasy in years past but you see it as plausible and maybe ted cruz or marco rubio is drafted and wins. >> the field has not been winnowed as it has in previous years. i think trump underperformed on super tuesday. i think rubio made great gains in virginia that wasn't really expected. that was a surprise, cruz did well in the closed primaries. as mark said, trump doesn't do well when just republicans start to vote and i think what we saw last night were clear divisions between the candidates and it's now abundantly clear, as i said

before we went to break, that trump makes policies up as he goes along. and i think as you see these ads, for example, the club for growth ads which are great start to educate voters in these states and as these voters in florida and ohio start to pay attention, there is -- there seems to be -- at least so far, we don't know if it will continue -- a ceiling on trump's support. it's around 30% to 35%. so we'll see if this debate had an affect. >> you just said donald trump underperformed super tuesday. >> he did. >> do you write marco rubio's concession speech which is sound like churchillian victory speeches? >> i don't know, you said you read our editorials. we had an editorial on this on wednesday talking about how trump as he continues towards the nomination gets less popular and you see more votes going to cruz and to marco rubio. now, kasich may prove a spoiler. i think it's very difficult for him to make a case that he can win. yes, he has to win ohio, but he

played the spoiler really for marco rubio in virginia and in massachusetts. >> so who's going to defeat donald trump? >> well, we don't know that. do you know that? >> yes, i do. >> hillary clinton? >> nobody. >> because i this i if donald trump is -- >> nobody on the republican side. >> we don't know that yet. >> we kind of do. >> no, we don't. >> yeah, we do. >> there are just as many delegates awarded the fifth, sixth and eighth as they did on super tuesday. >> but the thing is this thing is so front-loaded and there is such a sense of momentum that gets behind the candidate a that if they were going to stop donald trump -- and i said this of john mccain in 2008 -- if you're going to stop him, you have to stop him in south carolina because once a front-runner escapes south carolina, chuck todd, the pace picks up, you're flying from one airport hangar to another. nobody can raise enough money to hit the 50 or 60 media markets you're going to have to hit instead of just hitting the greenville, columbia, and charleston market.

and suddenly it gets wild and out of control. maybe trump can be stopped. but i just don't know how. >> well, look, there's -- there's 11 days. i mean, there are ways. ted cruz is going to have a good weekend of delegates. it's very possible. but the problem is on tuesday donald trump is likely to win mississippi and michigan. now, michigan -- >> can i ask you, chuck -- >> michigan is going to be split -- >> hold on a second. it doesn't seem fair to ted cruz that if marco rubio had won the states that ted cruz won they would be throwing the media collectively throwing rose petals at his feet and washing his feet in, like, oil and lifting him high above their heads and cheering the boy king who would be president. >> well -- >> ted cruz wins three states, marco rubio wins a caucus in the middle of the night in minnesota that nobody knows the rules to.

if cruz wins another weekend, nobody will say he can win like they would say of the boy king. it just doesn't seem fair to cruz. >> well, cruz is -- look, i think cruz has proven to be very resilient here and very strong and, you're right. look at super tuesday, the week before it. it was all about rubio versus trump and quietly cruz put a solid plan in texas and boy did he clean up delegates in texas in a way that was very impressive. skunked marco rubio who didn't get a delegate. i don't believe he got a single delegate out of the state of texas. obviously he was very smart in his targeting. look, this is a very well-run campaign. the ted cruz campaign is arguably the best-run campaign tactically. they know how to get delegates. they are more prepared for a convention fight than any of the other campaigns because of the way they know how to pick off delegates and it's almost inevitable they end up second in delegates no matter what happens which will make cruz a crucial player in some form or another.

look, i don't -- i think it's more likely that trump is short of the delegates than not. you start looking at everything he's got to do and i think it will be tougher for them to sweep both ohio and florida. the amount of money that will go into florida -- and florida is a closed primary and i think some of the polling doesn't fully account for the fact that this is a -- that they need to be tighter screens on your polling in florida. >> chuck, we've been doing this all along. i'm going to hold up a paper and mark this. you said something significant. so you're saying on friday, march 4, 2016, we're going to have a brokered convention? >> i think it's more likely than not now. >> wow. >> you start looking at these numbers, it's such a precarious -- look, there is a good path for trump if he wins both florida and ohio. but i don't see how he wins both. >> why not? >> look, i think he can win -- >> i don't see how he loses florida, chuck. do you? >> well, i agree. i think he's a favorite in

florida but i don't think you understand how much money is about to go down there. >> i understand, they're running ads every ten seconds attacking donald trump. >> this is going to be the last -- i mean, this is sort of whatever you want to call florida but this is the line in the sand. >> it's the establishment's last stand. >> this is it. >> mark halperin, yesterday, toward the end of up with of the more bizarre days in american political history that i've witnessed i talked to a couple of democrats and a couple of republicans and i was struck by a theme that all four indicated that they -- that they clung to. and it was that mitt romney's performance yesterday in a sense diminished rubio and cruz as candidates and would propel this thing forward to a brokered convention: what are your thoughts on that? that it was diminishing for the two republican candidates rubio and cruz.

not john kasich. rubio and cruz. >> there's no doubt that romney's performance yesterday was very polished, very well organized, very articulate and in the heat of the campaign and in their fatigue cruz and rubio aren't always able to reach that level. i agree with chuck that it's more likely than not that trump won't get a majority unless he ups his game. if he stays on the current trajectory, look how he did in virginia and other super tuesday states and correlate them based on the demography and rules to upcoming states on this trajectory, i don't think he'll get a majority. i think he can win florida and ohio, though. >> what's accomplished to upping his game? specificity? >> he could start advertising more. he could be a more consistent performer in terms of keeping his coalition together. i'm not sure. mary main be right. there may be a high ceiling given the delegate rules if he can be stopped in florida or

ohio. he can get it. winning in florida is important not just for symbolism but the here is number of delegates at stake because they are winner take all. >> mark halperin, do you think trump can be stopped in florida. >> i think it's possible but difficult. i think it would require a paradigm shift of marco rubio abandoning largely efforts in other states. making a stand there as the romney plan calls for and these advertising to have a real effect. i wouldn't bet on it. i would bet on him winning florida maybe by a lot. >> what about ohio? >> i agree with almost everything chuck said except that i think at this point if i were betting i bet he wins them both. >> does anyone believe that there's anything that can be in these ads that can move enough donald trump voters off of him him for him to lose 20 points? >> it has to be more than ads.

>> i can tell you i have that relatives and friends who support donald trump who do not care what they hear. >> it's note persuasion, joe. i don't think it's persuasion. i agree with you. i don't think -- the ad campaign has to be about convincing other republicans you vote against trump to continue the race, that he needs more time. i think the most effective way is -- i think we know nothing moves a trump voters. most trump voters know the trump baggage. >> 20 points. >> this is about slowing down the process. giving more time. r you ready to hand this nomination to donald trump? >> how do you con sal date? >> i'm not saying it's easy.

>> people don't vote that way. >> ted cruz doesn't go into a voting booth and go "i'm going to stop donald trump by voting for this other guy i don't like." >> this is becoming a politically well educated electorate. i wouldn't rule that out. it's a hard thing to sell. but i think rubio has a better shot -- i think it's very telling rick scott won't endorse. >> and the thing is steve rattn rattner, he's a united states senator, just not working, not voting, telling people you don't like being a senator, that it's

a waste of time, that does not endear you -- i don't know what marco rubio's approval ratings are in florida. i guess they're probably not very good. >> if rubio wins florida it won't be because floridians love him and he's a favorite son and they want to send him to the presidency the way kasich seems able to motivate people in ohio behind him. but you will this barrage of ads which i don't think will be as much -- let's have more time or let the process play out, will it be hitting trump right between the eyes on trump university and the stuff being talked about in these debates and we haven't seen that yet. the second thing remember is trump doesn't have any money to answer that. he hasn't spent money on advertising, hasn't raised money, i don't think you'll see him spend money and we'll find out whether advertising matters or not. between now and florida trump is going to look very strong. cruz will probably win kansas, rubio will win puerto rico but it's otherwise going to be trump, trump, trump and i think what happens on the 15th is going to be very dispositive as to whether we have 1237 delegate

candidate or we don't. >> mark halperin? >> watch to see if jeb bush helps marco rubio win florida. if it's all in, if everybody goes in to say we're going to prop him up, i agree it's not as good as kasich's in ohio but between the advertising, let's see what jeb bush does, let's see how hard rubio works the stage. >> do you know what marco rubio's approval rating is in the state of florida right now? i just checked this up from new york magazine, the latest survey. rubio's approval rating in florida, 31%. rubio's disapproval rating in florida, 55%. let me say that again. his approval rating in his own state where he's a sitting united states senator is 31%. his disapproval rating in that same state is 55%. >> but if -- >> lots of luck, fella. >> but if on the 15th rubio loses his state. >> there's no if. the guy is 24 points -- you guys

are in fantasy land. donald trump is ahead by 20 points in florida. >> if on the 15th -- >> i can tell you in north florida they ain't moving. look how people voted in southern alabama southern florida from jacksonville to pensacola, trump is up by 30, 35 points in those media markets. >> joe, if on the 15th rubio loses his state and kasich wins his and cruz has been picking up delegates, in the three-way, if it's trump, a strong kasich, stronger kasich, and cruz, it's still possible to deny trump a majority of the delegates. >> but much harder. much harder. >> i don't know that it's much harder. if kasich is strong enough to compete with trump in states like illinois, new jersey, california, new york, in a three-way, which he might be, it's possible: if trump wins florida, he gets those delegates in the winner take all. it's harder but it's

mathematically the most possible way -- >> i'm sorry, i don't see kasich coming in like that. please. >> if we go into a convention where trump has 1200 delegates and cruz has 700 delegates and kasich has 500, the idea they'll reach down and nominate kasich -- >> look, we -- >> and mary, in the latest -- this latest florida ppp poll, rubio versus trump, trump 52%. they narrowed it down one on one because that's the dream to stop donald trump, if we can only get a one on one. so let's get a one on one in marco's home state. this has to look good. >> well -- >> no, hold on. trump 52 the%. florida's favorite son and the future of the republican party, 38%. i'm not being a smart ass. i'm so sick and tired of people trying to spin yarn into gold. that's all that's been happening. you'll have to find another vessel other than marco rubio. i've been saying it and halperin's been saying it for nine months! you know what? people don't want to buy that

dog food as brit hume would say. but go ahead, why is marco rubio going to win a state like florida. anybody? >> i didn't say that. >> no. >> political ads work. club for growth advertised heavily in iowa and we think that probably contributed to cruz's victory in iowa. they put a lot of money into oklahoma, cruz won there. trump's numbers as i said the longer he's in the race the less popular he becomes. cruz's problem is that -- >> you keep saying -- mary, i don't mean to be short -- >> let me finish the argument. >> 49% -- >> let me finish the argue. >> if you say something factually inaccurate you're building an argument on false data. >> no. cruz's appeal is a factional appeal. he has run as a factional candidate. his biggest problem is expanding the base. that's always been marco rubio's ticket, right? i'm a unifier, i'm going to expand the praeb barepublican b. but he hasn't won states. so it may be these

backwards-looking polls in florida reflect voters who say, well, rubio has no momentum, is that a wasted vote? my point is about cruz is that he's demonstrating that he's winning states, he's drawing clear lines policy wise between himself and trump. and i will be very curious to see what these polls look like after these -- after this last debate. >> so, wil rksso, willie geist, clear. i'm not a donald trump guy, i wanted to vote for jeb. >> he's not around. the guy i would vote for in the connecticut primary probably won't be around when the connecticut primary comes around. i worked with john kasich, i love the guy. but in this case if you want to talk about the person that has expanded the electorate, that's donald trump. you look at the fact that over three million more people voted? >> flipped from 2008. >> republicans went out, donald trump is expanding dramatically in record numbers the republican people in are going out to vote

republican primaries. again, yet another thing we've heard marco rubio is going to do. he hasn't done it. >> both for and against trump, though. you see, when you make that statement it sounds like all these people are coming out because they love donald trump and the numbers don't bear that out. if that were true, then he would have been gaining all the momentum you would usually gain through south carolina. i also think barack obama has a lot to do with the record turnout on the right. >> even i, even i who is like the least par tomorrow trump have to concede that the guy has mounted a formidable effort. he has won state after state. yes, he does -- has not crossed 50% in anyone's state but it's a multicandidate race. he's in a commanding position. he's -- the next two weeks won't be good for the opposition to trump in all likelihood. it will come down to ohio and florida. the only reason why rubio might win, zbloerjoe, in my opinion,

because floridians love rubio. you have established that. >> minus 24 in the latest poll. >> the only way he can win is that if the anti-trump people convince floridians that in order to deny trump you have to vote for rubio. >> but you don't make the strategic voting argument. that's a losing argument. you make the argument based on ideas. trump isn't going to fix entitlements for florida's seniors and those programs are going bankrupt. >> i think that you have backwards on florida. that you have backwards. >> what's different now between blowout wins in new hampshire for trump almost 20 points, nevada, double digits in south carolina, why is that going to change now? >> because the candidates have started to educate the american voter about what trump's policies mean for growth here and the global disorder. >> trump's entitlements policy is hugely popular -- will be hugely popular in florida because he doesn't want to touch benefits. >> i entirely disagree. >> mary, quickly --

>> go ahead. >> do you remember the establishment republicans that cedric scott couldn't win? >> yes. >> isn't rick scott the canary in the coal mine on trump in florida? as much as i think there's a way to beat trump and i think it's possible then i remember rick scott and bill mccollum and i remember the establishment saying "scott couldn't win, scott wouldn't win." we've seen donald trump run in florida already twice. he's a two-term governor. up next, ari fleischer joins the conversation. also, mississippi's republican chairman joins us live abig hea a big election there. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. >> it really tied the room together. >> so this was valued? >> what tied the room together? >> my rug. >> were you listening to the dude's story, donnie? >> i was bowling. >> that rug tied the room together, did it not? ight.

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and the party for the first time because of donald trump, how are they going to feel to have put donald trump in the lead and watch the establishment wing of the party pull the rug out from under him? >> well, first of all, there are a lot of people -- establishment or not -- who agree with me that donald trump should not be president of the united states and don't want to see him become the republican nominee. right now it's about 65% of republicans who'd like someone else. so that's the way politics works. you get behind the people you support, you fight with for them and the person who wins through the process the one who becomes your nominee. >> under any circumstances, would you be a part of this presidential race as a candidate? >> there are no circumstances i can foresee where that would possibly happen. but let me say something -- >> "i can foresee." >> no reasonable scenario i can imagine. >> just slam the door, close the door unambiguously you will not run for president. >> i'm not running for president and i won't run for president. with us now, former white house press secretary ari fleischer and in jackson,

mississippi, chairman of the mississippi republican party joe nosef whose state votes for donald trump. it is the deep south. >> i grant you. >> that we've been saying it for some time, trump's biggest strength, the deep south. >> his biggest strength is in many places. look how well he did in new hampshire and massachusetts. can he push it toward 50% of the vote? if he starts pushing it toward the 50%, it's inevitable, it's over. let me give a word of caution. for all the experts who said in june when he got in he has no chance and all after south carolina who say it's over, let the voters decide. stop trying to predict the future. let the states have their elections. >> ari, let me ask you what you would do. we worked together on the hill, you worked in the white house, you now work helping people

round the rough edges off of their images. if donald trump called you up after he locked down the nomination and said, okay, i need you to tell me what i need to do to build a bridge to the republican establishment, what would be the first three pieces of advice you'd give to trump? >> the first thing is hope my caller i.d. was working so i would haven't to take the call. i'd be a terrible advisor to him. all my instincts and skills are in a very different direction from him and he should not bring on establishment type thinking like me. he's taking washington by storm because he's different and he should not pull that back and temper it very much. he needs to down shift it enough so people think he can be presidential but what's working for him is that he's not listening to people like me and i have to say it that way. my advice to him would be very much more traditional inside washington. a country now, especial will i a party that's sick of that advice. >> mika asked donald yesterday on this show who are your

foreign policy advisors? who do you listen to? doesn't there come a point where he says here's my foreign policy team so people know where his administration might lead? >> i think foreign policy is different from domestic advice and he has to have wise minds who know the world but that's a little different from saying who should he bring in for domestic or political advice. military foreign policy is a specialized field. >> joe nosef, joe said trump will win mississippi. where do you think the race is right now in mississippi? >> first of all, let me just say, i hate to do this, i have to disagree with my friend ari fleischer. i think that if donald trump has -- intends on winning the general election, he's going to have to reach out to people like -- i hate these labels, but the establishment types as a practical matter whether it's going to impact his campaign method or not.

in our primary we had here a couple years ago, had the insurgent candidate won, that's what he would have done as well. as far as mississippi goes, we had a poll released yesterday that showed donald trump very strong here in mississippi as well. i think he was around 40%, maybe more. >> 41%, yeah. >> he's coming here monday. cruz is coming back monday. so they're not taking mississippi for granted, which is nice. but he is strong here as well. >> for people driving in their car listening, donald trump is at 41%, ted cruz at 17%, rubio at 16%, john kasich 8%. >> that's john kasich with the support of trent lott and the establishment figures not doing that great. ari, you said he's going to have to dial it down a bit to appear more presidential and presume bpresumebly to win over the 8% of people in the middle of the countly who will decide this election. what do you mean? we saw him do it at that press

conference after tuesday. he didn't sustain it, though. it lasted, what, 25 hours? not much more than that. at some point beyond having that temperamental thing, he's going to have to address policy questions. we were talking about this earlier and saw in the the debate last night. you push him on taxes and trade or foreign policy and there's no answers. there's no platform, that has to happen, too, doesn't it? or does that alienate thousands of people who love him because he doesn't have that. >> there are three phases of communications for future presidents. the first phase is talk to your party. second phase talk to the country. that's called the general election. the third phase, talk to the world. each of them require you to stay true to your core prince nepipl. but you have to set an example for the world that america will take the leadership role around the world and do the right thing for the right reasons and this requires a more sotto voce than

just to be the bull in the china shop. a bull in a china shop works in the primary when people want to break china. not in every scenario. >> has me been too much of the national id to being the person american wants to have in the white house? >> that's fascinating. this was the merit of trump's news conference the other night. he has an inward sense of he knows he has to make a shift and he's telling everybody i'm a chameleon, i can make that shift. and he's so overt about it, too. >> joe, we put that poll number up, 41% for trump, ted cruz 17%. what are the people in mississippi that you talk to like about donald trump? what do the 41% see in him? we've talked today, not a lot of policy specifics, you can't go deep on issues. what are people responding to when they see donald trump? >> i think supporters of donald trump and the people who are opposed to him are practical and not ideological.

in other words supporters are for him because they're tired of normal politicians. you said earlier in the the program, people that do things the way it's been done. i think people that are for him are for him because of that reason. what that's why if something comes out that's negative or somebody hits him with something he's changed on they don't really move. the people that are against him i think are against him for a practical reason that they're worried about losing the general election and war lead the the problems that caused mitt romney to lose, donald trump has those on steroids to some extent so i don't know if that's true or not but that's what i see in the supporters. they have a very practical draw to him and that's why it's hard to move him one way or the other. >> joe, thanks so much. he's got a 24-point lead in the state of mississippi, haley barbour's home state, trent lott's home state who obviously has endorsed john kasich and it just reminds me of the southern governor i talked to last week. very popular southern governor.

asked him how trump was going to do in his state and he said he's going to win by at least ten points. i don't know a single person who is voting for him. >> but it shows endorsements don't mean anything in modern day politics. >> ari fleischer, thank you so much. appreciate it. joe nosef, appreciate you coming back. up next, former presidential candidate jim webb is standing by. we'll ask him what he makes of the fbi investigation into hillary clinton's e-mail servers and get them to weigh in on the crazy state of politics in 2016. "morning joe" will be right back. does the smell of a freshly bound presentation fill you with optimism? do you love your wireless keyboard more than certain family members? is your success due to a filing system only you understand? does printing from your tablet to your wireless printer give you a jolt of confidence?

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so say good night and go to bed, make room for marco, make room for ted. [ laughter ] good night tree and good night stump, good night, america, cause here comes trump. [ laughter and applause ] >> ben carson, by the way, still the conversation, set to speak at cpac a day after he skipped the republican debate. jim webb said there's not a single contender who can build a national strategy. what does that mean? third-party candidate, maybe? he joins us next on "morning joe." neutrogena® cosmetics. powders, concealers and foundations in new shades for more skin tones. with vitamins and antioxidants. your skin will look beautiful when you wear it and even after you take it off.

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>> so what would you do as commander-in-chief if the u.s. military refused to carry out those orders? >> they won't refuse. they're not going to refuse me, believe me. >> that's not an answer. >> you look at the middle east, they're chopping off the heads

of christians and anybody else that happens to be in their way. we should go for waterboarding and we should go tougher than waterboarding. [ cheers and applause ] >> but targeting terrorist families? >> i'm a leader. i'm a leader, i've always been a leader. i've never had any problem leading people. if i say do it, they're going to do it, that's what leadership is all about. >> joining us now, former presidential candidate, former democratic senator from the great state of virginia, jim webb, also a united states combat veteran. senator, good to see you. >> good to see you. >> let's start with the broad question. state of the race. >> oh, la. [ laughter ] >> how are you feeling about the future of american politics right now, sir? >> i think i'm like an average american, very confused and hoping we can get through this with a president who can articulate the future of the country in a proper way. and if i might say something about what ari fleischer said.

i don't know that donald -- i don't know donald trump, i don't know that donald trump would be asking him for advice but i would think there is a time in this campaign where he should stand up and make a major policy speech rather than simply participating in these debates. the situation with the kkk is a classic example. if you look at what barack obama went through the jeremiah wright, his minister going to that church for 20 years, he made some really inflammatory statements and obama chose that moment to make a policy speech about the importance of resolving race issues in america. if there were one piece of advice that i would give donald trump if i knew donald trump it would be, you know, instead of just doing these debates, find one of these issues and make a major policy speech so people can see how you're going to communicate if you're president. >> senator, as a veteran yourself i want to ask you on one specific bit of the debate

where donald trump was asked what he would do if people in the military refused to target families, for example, of terrorists or go beyond waterboarding and he said they wouldn't. they'll listen to me, i guarantee you, they'll do what i say. will they? >> there's a thing called the law and if you are receiving an illegal order you do not obey. >> even from the commander-in-chief. >> if that where the situation. the difficulty i have that when i look at all of the presidential candidates right now is that i'm not seeing the sort of articulation of a foreign policy concept that would communicate to the rest of the world how america will address its national security interests. we have not had that clear policy since the end of the cold war. that's how we have been incident by incident looking at what we do around the world ant it's really affecting us not only in

the middle east but also in east asia with these issues with an expansionist china. >> but just to clarify. if you're a soldier on the field and you get an order that tells you to kill family members of an enemy combatant, you don't do it. >> you have a duty to disobey. i represented a so-called war criminal pro bono for six years, a young man named sam greens on this very issue of what do you do if you receive an order that is beyond the moral authority of the person to give it. my guy obeyed an order and was convicted of murder and three years into this incident when i was representing him, three years into it he killed himself, he took his own life. i cleared his name three years later. >> so presumbly for the -- putting aside the question of obeying orders, for donald trump to say we should go beyond waterboarding, that we should kill the families of these

terrorists, et cetera, et cetera, is kind of the height of irresponsibility? >> well, the most important thing a president can do when it comes to military policy is to get its senior military leaders or her senior military at the ts these things and get their advice and then make a decision. that's not just a donald trump issue. that's all -- all these people's issues. and if you don't have a clearly stated foreign policy and if you don't have broad experience in this area of foreign policy, we only have one candidate who has broad experience and she's been wrong on every issue since 9/11 then you sort of default into the air stock kraes, this incest use bureaucracy that controls how we go about our born policy. >> senator, a lot of people have been saying on line and sending e-mails when they found out that you would be on that they wanted you to consider jumping in as an independent in this race and saving them from the horror that they see the general election

setting up to you. would you consider under any circumstances running an independent bid. >> we looked at the very hard for three months when i withdrew from the democratic primary process and it's a very costly process to get on the ballot in all of the different states, it's very litigious. i think when ralph nader did this there were 29 lawsuits from the dnc alone came at him. if you had the money, if you were a michael bloomberg with the money it gets conceivable, but it's a very difficult process to do. >> you just said a second ago, senator, that hillary clinton has been wrong on every foreign policy issue since 9/11, you were in the race against her, you expressed all those things. would you have enough reservation about hillary clinton as a commander in chief that you would not support her for president? >> i'm not supporting anybody right now. >> would you vote for hillary clinton? >> no, i would not vote for hillary clinton. >> would you vote for donald trump? >> i'm not -- i'm not sure yet. i don't know who i'm going to

vote for. >> but not hillary clinton? >> no, look -- and this is nothing personal about hillary clinton, but i think the reason that donald trump is getting so much support right now is not because of the racist, you know, et cetera, et cetera, it's because people are seeing him, a certain group of people are seeing him as the only one who has the courage to step forward and say we've got to clean out the stables of the american governmental system right now. we've got to make it work. if you're voting for donald trump you may get something very good or very bad. if you're voting for hillary clinton you're going to be getting the same thing. do you want the same thing? 6% of the people in the country maybe want the same thing. >> all right. jim webb, thank you so much. always great to have you here. coming up, we'll be back with more "morning joe." and can you explain why you recommend synthetic over cedar?

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>> coming up next the low down dirty gate in detroit. if you went to bed early and are just waking up now, things got more awkward than that fist bump. >> he won't shake their hand. >> maybe he's sick, joe. >> he was sick. >> i'm not going to shake your hand. >> we have the highlights coming up for you. he's not running, he's not endorsing, does mitt romney have anything in in the quest to take down donald trump. wall street looks to be looking forward to the numbers this morning. we will go to the new york stock exchange in a moment. "morning joe" is back in a moment. oh, look... ...another anti-wrinkle cream in no hurry to make anything happen. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair works... ...in one week. with the... fastest retinol formula. ...to visibly reduce wrinkles. neutrogena®. when you think what does it look like? is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student?

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i have to say this. he hit my hands. nobody has ever hit my hands. i've never heard of this. look at those hands. are they small hands? and he referred to my hands if they're small something else must be small. i guarantee you there's no problem. i guarantee it. >> let me see your hands. see. this is the problem with politicians, they're all talk. they give you stuff and people -- i have good sized hands. >> what about the school yard taunts of the debate. >> i don't see school yard taunts. >> reference to hands. >> see how beautiful my hands are. look at those hands. those are powerful hands, hit a golf ball 285 yards. i was very proud to hold my hands up because these are politicians, they say things and they make things up and, you know, you have to clear up the record. >> so, willie, it's come to that. got the measuring stick out. >> i said a minute ago we've

reached the portion of the campaign that is a lit wall blank measuring contest on the debate stage. >> i'm amazed marco rubio didn't turn to him and and say prove it right there. >> "politico" fact is working on it. >> "the washington post" a couple days ago came out with a scientific view. >> on the hands. i was thinking the other -- >> all the hands. we'll start with the hands right there. >> i'm sorry, i misunderstood. >> a little harder to do that. look at him showing his hands. and they explained that, yes, his hands are normal for a guy who is 6'3". >> this is the election for the person that's going to run the biggest military and biggest economy in the world, right? >> it is. >> okay. i didn't drift off somewhere. >> election for the president of the fraternity. >> what's remarkable is graden carter started all of this by just making up a line back 25, 35 years ago.

>> almost 30. >> one of the greatest magazines ever -- >> hilarious. >> the short finger vul gar yan. >> but obviously it stuck. i have to say, though, really quickly before we dive into everything -- and also that mitt romney press conference. dude, if you're going to get in the pool, jump in. okay? you're standing at the side. jump in or just go, put the towel on, go back in. >> but anyway it was just kind of depressing. and i know everybody is saying marco hit him, hit him, hit him. you know, i've always said marco is too young and inexperienced and was not ready to run for president, but that's the 2016. i've always said stay in the senate, be governor, run in 2020 and you probably will be ready. i just -- i mean, i just am afraid for his sake and his supporters' sake that you will of a these -- talking about trump wetting his pants, talking

about -- i mean, what happens if trump runs and trump loses to hillary clinton, there is marco who has really diminished himself. do you know what i'm saying? it just doesn't seem worth it because he's totally going against his brand. it's like we're chain saw repair, we are a chain saw repair shop. oh, you need your nails filed? come on in. beautiful. >> unless four years from now he's able to say let's say for argument sake hillary clinton is president, marco rubio runs again, he can say, listen, the donald trump thing was a unique phenomenon, it was a once in a lifetime, we had never seen it before, we will never see it again, i did what i had to do to fight this guy who was fighting op ground we have never fought before. aside from john kasich it was kind of an embarrassing gs night for everybody. just the whole tone, not just the clip of trump, but ted cruz kind of talking and coaching trump through yoga, breathe, breathe, you can do it, there was -- fox tried their level

best to get substance in and asked good questions but my gosh the debate was -- >> depressing. i was exhausted by the end of the day, kind of trained. having watched romney and trump's reply to romney and the debate you felt like you wanted to come home and have a sauna or hot shower. >> marco made the joke, the punch line saying he's flexible on the yoga front, everybody laughed and there were people tweeting that was the moment of the night. i'm sitting there going that's the moment of the night? again, it's not funny anymore. all of them need to know it's not funny anymore. we're electing a president, one of the most vital times for this one tree where our reputation across the globe is shattered, people don't think we're stepping up and doing what we need to do, the u.s. economy while it seems to be doing better if you look at unemployment numbers, stagnant wages, you still have billions and billions of dollars offshore, it just -- >> well, this may be a little -- >> it's just not funny. you look at what the democrats have been doing, the democrats

have been talking -- >> substance. >> -- about issues and substance. >> i just say two things, one it may be a low bar, i thought it was slightly more civil than houston which was like a complete -- >> maybe because the first time we saw it in houston and i think we've gotten innocuous. >> i think the fox moderators did a good job. >> excellent. >> when they brought up those charts to basically say, well, you say you're going to cut hundreds of billions of dollars on pharma but we only spend $80 billion of drugs a year i think they got trump to be a little more specific than he has been. >> let's take a look at it. so the debate was in detroit last night, the remaining republican presidential candidates met for the 11th time and one of the first questions dealt with the recent attacks from marco rubio against the size of donald trump's hands. we just heard that. >> can you believe that, though? >> that's the first out of the box? >> out of the box. they're talking about the size of donald trump's hands. can i say --

>> but that's not what they were exactly talking about. >> if they are fighting on the ground donald trump wins. i mean, all of that we're talking about donald trump wins. nothing changes. he is up 20 points in all of these polls. i'm saying they're playing right into his hand. as david axelrod told me the other day, donald trump has somehow allowed the football team he is playing against to play on his side of the field the entire time. >> yeah. now, in fairness, trump sort of brought that up on some other topic he said, and by the way little marco, lying ted and little marco, he brought up my hands and he went into the hands and other thing. so after that insult more insults continued into the night. the candidates gated poll numbers, immigration, honesty, even height. >> he has spent a career convincing americans that he's something that he's not in exchange for their money now he's trying to do the same in exchange for their country.

>> this little guy has lied so much about my record. >> you see what happens him on a policy issue, you asked him about the economy and the first thing he does is launch an attack about some little guy thing because he doesn't have answers. >> i have a policy question for you, sir. >> let's see if he answers it. >> i will. don't worry about t marco. don't worry about it. don't worry about t little marco, i will. >> well, let's hear, big donald. >> don't worry about it, little marco. >> gentlemen. gentlemen. >> you want to -- >> gentlemen, you've got to do better than this. >> i watched a cnn interview donald did where he explained, he said, well, the problem is you can't find americans who are qualified or who want to work as waiters and waitresses. now, let me ask the people here, how many people here have worked as a waiter or waitress? [ applause ] >> how many americans wanted those jobs, roughly 300 applied, donald hired 17. what's been reported is that donald told the editorial board

of the "new york times" what i'm saying on immigration i don't believe, i'm not going to build a wall, i'm not going to deport people, this is all just rhetoric for the voter. if, in fact, you went to manhattan and said i'm lying to the american people then the voters have a right to know. >> you're the lying. you are the lying guy up here. you're the one. >> you're the one. >> let me just tell you -- excuse me. i've given my answer, lying ted. i've given my answer. >> he scammed the people of florida. he scammed -- he doesn't vote. he doesn't show up for the u.s. senate. he doesn't vote. he scammed the people -- >> understood. >> he defrauded the people of florida. >> you've made that point. go ahead. >> as you can see in his answer it's always the same thing. >> you defrauded the people of florida, little marco. >> let me just ask the voters at home is this the debate you want playing out in the general election? >> i tell you what i don't want playing out and i've said it before, the crowds. >> yeah. >> like who is that good for? just the cheering and the

booing? mike, you said it sounded like a hockey game. >> at a baseball game people sitting behind home plate, what happened there? there were two things that stuck me, one was the crowd -- a couple of things. john kasich's temperament, the idea that he didn't say i've had it, i'm out of here, this is ridiculous, he proved he had the temperament to be president. and the third thing i was stunned that they didn't go after donald more on his lack of failure to give us his tax returns, which is a point of vulnerability that he clearly wants to avoid. >> well, mark halperin, you were there and it looks like you've gotten the mud off of you, the back and forth there. give us your report card, first of all, explain it and tell us what your take a ways were. >> as always my report card is based on partly on performance and partly on whether the candidate helped himself become

the most likely nominee. i think john kasich had his best debate, i gave him a b plus. i thought this is a state where he wanted to do better than he is going to do but he positioned himself i think to be part of the conversation which i've been surprised he has not been. trump and cruz i gave bs to. i thought ted cruz did a better job of marco rubio at going after donald trump and connecting it to things voters might care about. marco rubio a b minus, a little bit more scattered. he went for one-liners on trump and didn't do as good a job correcting things up to voters. i'm surprised they didn't go more after the tax returns, i'm surprised the fox moderators didn't go more after that. that's the thing mitt romney brought up yesterday, one of the pending issues with donald trump that is a legitimate issue and where he has not been forthcoming. >> when did -- wasn't it in the fall of the election when mitt romney released his tax returns? >> september. >> he put out some earlier and some later. >> some later and then he put out all of them later in september? >> he put out a lot around the

south carolina primary and then we had that year's return was delayed. so donald trump is clerl brou t cleverly brought out this motion that romney put out his returns later. he put out some earlier and some later. donald trump could release returns from years that aren't currently under audit or tell us what his effective tax rate it, et cetera. >> let's look at your report card one more time. obviously you look at this report card and if this ends up being, in fact, how most people score the debate and you look at the polls where trump is as far ahead adds he is in the contests that are coming up, you probably agree with me that last night didn't change a thing. >> it didn't change much. i'd say it only potentially changed two things in the margin. doesn't change trump's commanding position, extreme likelihood that he will be the nominee. i think it gives john kasich another look, which he needs badly. he needs to win ohio and i think this will help him get another look nationally and in this part of the country where a lot of key primaries are coming up.

i think in this battle between ted cruz and marco rubio to be the more relevant figure i think based on super tuesday and what happened last night ted cruz can argue right now at least that he is the more relevant figure in this battle. >> you think all of marco's one liners, all the talk about wetting pants, engaging in donald trump's -- the size of donald trump's extremities, all of these things you think that actually plays to cruz and makes marco less relevant? >> well, like i said, i thought cruz when he went after trump did a better job of connecting it up to policy, connecting it up to say to voters this is what trump is like with my one-liner here is what i'm like. i thought marco rubio still trying to find his footing in this new mode he was in where there were more one liners as opposed to one liners that voters could look at and hear and say, okay, that's what rubio is more, i like rubio, he's hitting trump but also telling me what he's for. i thought cruz did a much better

job of that last night than rubio did. >> during the debate we had all these personal attacks, rubio and cruz attacking on donald trump on foreign policy, attacking that he was not a conservative and yet at the end of the debate the candidates vowed to come together and back whomever ends up with the republican nomination. that would seem to undercut marco rubio who has been using the #nefvertrump. >> can you definitively say you will support the republican nominee even if that nominee is donald j. trump? senator rubio, yes or no? >> i will support the republican nominee. >> mr. trump, yes or no. >> i will support donald if he is the republican nominee. >> yes or no you will support donald trump if he is the nominee. >> yes, because i gave my word that i would. >> yes, but -- and i kind of think that before it's all said and done i will be the nominee but let me also say -- >> can you definitively say tonight that you will definitely support the republican nominee for president even if it's not

you? >> even if it's not me? millions and millions of people have come to the republican party over the last little while. it's the biggest thing happening in politics and i'm very proud to be a part of it and i'm going to give them some credit, too, even though they don't deserve it, but the answer is, yes, i will. >> okay. a lot of people have said that before, that they're going to back donald trump, but given the attacks on him in the last couple weeks, all the con man and all the establishment attacks on donald trump, it's kind of remarkable to watch people sit on the stage and tear the guy down and say we cannot have him president and then say, well, i'll support him in the end. >> also, again, marco rubio i think is hurt the most from all of those because he has been going around putting the hashtag up, katty, never trump and that's actually become a rallying cry. rubio jumped on it last night he undercut himself which actually plays to type for conservatives

who are putting #nevertrump. he moves around. we saw it in realtime, he went from being chuck schumer's buddy on immigration reform to wanting to put tanks at the border practically. >> this is really interesting. marco rubio moves around clearly and the never trump but yes i will support him is an example. but then we had during the course of the debate last night fox news put up a series of three different graphics a video on which trump has moved around and his answer was, yeah, i changed positions and somehow from donald trump. >> it worked. >> it's fine and it works and his supporters will like him for it. marco rubio doesn't seem to manage to get away with it the same way. >> because trump says i changed positions or people hold trump to a much lower standard who they hold marco rubio who does look at times -- i said it for six months and people said you hate him for saying it -- he looks preprogrammed and he looks like a robot. when he does that he never gives an inch on anything. when he loses and is humiliated

he goes up and stands on stage and says, tonight is the night that they will remember, you know, we turned our campaign around. i mean, it's -- and people are like, come on, just tell us the truth. and at least with trump, you know, he'll say, yeah, i've changed my position and it just -- and also i think people hold him to a much lower standard. i don't know why. >> i don't know if it's a lower -- >> marco is going #nevertrump and then he goes, yeah, sure, i'll -- >> i could see trump doing something similar and his supporters saying fine. he said #neverrubio and now he will support him and it's okay. people have a different standard. >> i think you're right they hold him to a different standard than traditional politicians. they have in nine months. >> his response about changing his mind he proves that unlike everybody else on that stage he has never run for public office before. he is not a politician. he gives the normal human response. yeah, i changed my mind.

>> but on the afghanistan question, i'm sorry, he also wiggles. he clearly heard that the question was about afghanistan he said, oh, no, i thought it was about iraq. that didn't ring true. he heard the word afghanistan repeatedly in that question and said i thought they were talk being iraq. >> the peculiarity about trump's personality is he will say you're wrong. >> nor will he answer a question. trump university. >> if he doesn't want to answer a question he will just go on into his standard programmed whatever it is on some other subject. >> still ahead on "morning joe" mitt romney accuses donald trump of third grade theatrics as he tries to stop the front runner in his tracks. plus the monthly jobs report is due out minutes from now. we will bring you the numbers as soon as they cross. later, the new american majority, how a demographic revolution is changing the nation. first here is bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> we had the snow this morning. there is a little clipper coming down, minnesota, wisconsin will

get a little bit this weekend. this weekend still be cold great lakes and northeast. still dealing with the snow coming down pretty hard in coastal jersey, delaware and maryland, upwards of 5 inches fell in a few spots of maryland. you will forget about it by the middle of in ex week it will feel like spring. the west is all our attention. we get a pattern flip across the country. heavy rain is coming to california. as of now it looks like heavy rain but not damaging rain and that's good, we can fill up the reservoirs, get another 2 to 4 feet of snow in the higher elevations. snow exits, beautiful weather, texas up through the midwest. temperatures are going to soar. we're 64 montana on friday, saturday as far north as montana 70 degrees, nice warm up spreading to the east, chicago, minneapolis, you jump into the 50s by the time we get to sunday. d.c. still struggling, the northeast still chilly, too. tuesday and wednesday look to be 60s and 70s pretty much everywhere east of the mississippi while all the stormy

weather is going to remain in the west. and they need the rain still. we still haven't filled up the reservoirs as much as we would like. washington, d.c. reports of up to 2 inches of snow around the city but the roads have been just fine this morning. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. oh, look... ...another anti-wrinkle cream in no hurry to make anything happen. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair works... ...in one week. with the... fastest retinol formula. ...to visibly reduce wrinkles. neutrogena®.

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elections set for this weekend for republicans, more than 150 delegates at stake and yesterday mitt romney met donald trump head on as we mentioned trying to stop trump's move and saying that he would support ted cruz or marco rubio or john kasich instead. point by point romney dressed trump down on everything from his economic policy to foreign policy to his intelligence and temperament saying there's, quote, plenty of evidence that trump is a con man and a fake and that his nomination would enable hillary clinton to march to the oval office.

>> let me put it very plainly. if we republicans choose donald trump as our nominee the prospects for a safe and prosperous future are greatly diminished. but you say. wait. wait. wait. isn't he a huge business success? does he know what he's talk being? no, he isn't and no he doesn't. [ applause ] >> his bankruptcies have crushed small businesses and the men and women who work for them. he inherited his business he didn't create it. and whatever happened to trump airlines? how about trump university? and then there's trump magazine? and trump vodka. and trump steaks. and trump mortgage. a business genius he is not. >> here is what i know, donald trump is a phoney, a fraud. his promises are as worthless as a degree from trump university. now, donald trump tells us that he is very, very smart.

i'm afraid that when it comes to foreign policy he is very, very not smart. this is an individual who mocked a disabled reporter, who attributed a reporter's questions to her menstrual cycle, who mocked a brilliant rival who happened to be a woman due to her appearance, who bragged about his marital affairs and laces his public speeches with vulgarity. donald trump says he add meyers vladimir putin, at the same time he has called george w. bush a liar. that is a twisted example of evil trumping good. he is not of the temperament of the kind of stable, thoughtful person we need as leader. his imagination must not be married to real power. >> look, mitt is a failed candidate. he failed. he failed horribly. i backed him. you can see how loyal he is. he was begging for my endorsement. i could have said, mitt, drop to

your knees, he would have dropped to his knees. he was begging. true. true. he was begging me. it was a campaign that should have never been lost. you're running against a failed president. he came up with the 47%, he demeaned 47% of the people in our country, right, the famous 47%. obama, say what you want, he was on jay leno, he was on david letterman, he was all over the place the last three, four weeks. mitt was looking for zoning for a nine-car garage or something in california, right? >> so, katty, do you want to tell us about the day yesterday? >> it was a very phallic day on the campaign trail. >> it was. >> it was that kind of day where you got to the end of the day and i felt like i wanted a shower because it was all so disgusting. i can't believe that there were not a lot of women watching that day like i was who thought, this is gross. this is what we have come to. i really do not want to hear

this stuff during the course of my day. it's actually kind of offensive that you have to sit and listen to this kind of language adds a woman, a man talking like that on television who is running for president. >> donald trump says -- >> that's how i felt. >> -- he was referring to romney getting on his knees to beg but i have to say i don't shock easily, i think you know that. none of us do anymore. but that line from trump i went, whoa, and then the line at the debate where he was talk being his hands i went whoa. and that doesn't happen very often. >> mark halperin, there has to be some scar tissue that is building up here that will impact the republican party in the fall election. what is the impact of all of this ugliness right now in this primary fight in march? >> well, i think it's going to depend on when and if donald trump secures the party's nomination. if he can secure it and advance the connection we all know he can be a very charming guy, there are some people in the party who will not vote for him

but i think the vast majority of the people in the party have already said they will be for whoever the nominee is drug donald trump. >> can you talk along those lines can you talk about how significant it is for donald trump in a positive way and how negative it is for marco rubio that rup ert murdock who was hostile toward donald trump is now sending out smoke signals and tweets that the republicans need to just shut up and line up behind donald trump because he's going to be the nominee and you're seeing also new york magazine writing stories about how fox news has abandoned marco rubio, which is shocking because, my god, i have never seen a candidate treated better by any network -- well, other than msnbc bowing and scraping to barack obama in 2008, but other than that -- do you remember that? every night like hillary clinton would win kentucky and it would be like, tonight, racism rises over lexington.

every time hillary won it was like, the ghost of jefferson davis rises somewhere over a confederate cemetery in richmond, virginia, where barack obama was beaten. i mean, that was pretty bad, wasn't it? >> who are you impersonating? >> that was a sort of slight -- >> sir, i'm not telling you who that was, but you called george w. bush a nazi every day. so let's go back to -- but anyway, it's pretty big news, is it not, mark halperin that fox news now has apparently dropped their endorsement of marco rubio and are now saying trump is inevitable, the guy they've been fighting against all this time other than hannity and i think red has been pretty positive towards him it seems things have changed. >> i think you've identified one voice, rup ert murdock, you could look at what sean hannity and rush limbaugh said about

trump versus romney. it is remarkable in the wake of what happened on super tuesday, trump has gotten no major endorsements this week on the caliber of a chris christie, instead you've had romney, mccain and others coming out hard against him. in terms of unity, if he continues to win, if it's not a convention fight, if he gets a majority before the convention, i think he will reach out to people and be very charming. he nose he needs to unite the party. we will bring you the brand new jobs report. that's next on "morning joe." ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ anthat unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business...

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it's time for business before the bell with cnbc's sara eisen. the news and finance anchor bianna golodryga. sara, the jobs report was just released minutes ago. give us a breaking news. >> well, it looks like we continue to see healthy job growth in this country. in the month of february the u.s. created 242,000 jobs. that was a lot more than economists were looking for, they were only expecting will 195,000 or so. the head line number, 242,000 jobs is a big beat and good to see. also the unemployment rate in this country stayed stable at 4.9%. that is also a good sign. it's the lowest number we've

seen since back in 2008. there is a sliver of bad news in here, guys, and i know you will talk about it and it's going to make its way on to the campaign trail and that is wages actually fell during the month of february. not expecting to see a negative number in front of that. average hourly earnings fell 3 cents which is 0.12%. economists were looking for them to rise. last month in january we saw a nice healthy rise, almost half a percent. that was a bit of a disappointment. so it looks like in the month of february if you go this past if he be from a year before, wages only rising 2.2%. not enough, but still worth particularly healthy science. the only other factor i would point out here is that labor participation rate that people looked at it ticked higher to 69.2%. so 69.2% of people in the labor force but those are historically low numbers. the markets are reacting favorably to this number but not

seeing enough wage growth here. >> bianna, that is the sorry of the past several years, a recovery where wages remain flat, job participation has been lower but good news that's ticking up slightly there, but wage growth continues to be what continues to haunt this economy. >> you will see two narratives from this report today, you will see the democrats touting a positive jobs number, 4.9% unemployment rate, we are expecting to be at full employment by this summer if we continue at this rate. republicans will come back with that wage issue and that's something that really is hurting a lot -- millions of americans across the country. they don't feel it. even if they have a job it's not good enough and it's not paying them what they feel they should be paid. >> steve, this isn't a 4 or 8-year problem this is a 40-year problem. jobs that we lost in the debate last night we were talking about there were 330,000 jobs in detro detroit, now there are 30 manufactures jobs in detroit. jobs go overseas, but when they come back instead of getting

$30, $35 an hour workers are getting $16 an hour. >> that's the problem. we have had consistent downward pressure on wages, without wage growth you are not go to grow. there is one tidbit in this report which is that manufacturing jobs last month fell by 16,000. we are in kind of a manufacturing recession in this country and so -- >> why are we? >> we why we? largely because of the strong dollar and competition from all the places donald trump likes to talk about, not because they're devaluing their currency -- >> so you're saying you agree with donald trump. >> i'm saying we agree with the headline of donald trump and then we go like that. >> i think both you and jim webb are going to vote for donald trump. just joking. >> that he is breaking news. >> listen, we will talk more right after the break about this and much more. still ahead our next guests say if democrats don't turn out voters of color they're going to lose elections. how does that bode for bernie sanders after a rough super tuesday?

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with us now civil rights lawyer and senior fellow at the center for american progress steve phillips, he is author of "brown is the new white how the demographic revolution has created a new american majority". >> also with us the chair of african-american studies at princeton, he had joe glow jr. we love you. his new book, "democracy in black, how race still en clafs the american soul". >> steve, the democrats need to stop worrying about getting that crossover white voters and need to focus on voters of color. >> right. so the demographic revolution over the past 50 years has transported the composition of the color. people of color have gone from 12% of the population to 38% of the population.

what obama's election showed is that appealing to that population, bringing out, inspiring large numbers of people of color with partnership with the meaningful minority of progressive whites that comprises the majority of people and putting forward an aggressive full throated populous bold agenda can appeal to those voters, turn those voters out and that's the way to win rather than trying to appeal to the shrinking sector of the moderate white voters. >> it's about numbers. one of the most compelling things, eddie, that i heard in 2012 after the election is if ronald reagan had the same demographic breakdown in 2012 as 19el 0 ronald reagan would have lost. this is a country that is changing and will continue to change. >> and creating a lot of anxiety. the interesting thing about steve's book is whether or not the democrats will commit itself to a progressive agenda that will turn out that demographic. so we know as we look at the democratic primary right now that a lot of voters of color aren't showing up to the polls.

>> i want to challenge both of you guys on something because both of you have attached progressive to black voters. black voters -- and this is lost by the media a lot -- are some of the more conservative voters when you look at some social issues, when you look -- i remember -- what was the gay marriage proposition in california. >> prop 8. >> prop 8. a lot of people scratching their heads in 2008, barack obama wins, yay, and yet it was voters of color that helped vote down prop 8. so it's not that black voters are predictably progressive. it's more complicated than that, right? >> well, it is more complicated from an economic standpoint that you have a vast racial wealth gap in this country. for economic equality issues black voters will be support of that type of an agenda. >> bernie sanders if you look at his economic agenda it's far

more progressive than any major candidate that i've seen over the past 30 years. why isn't he doing as well with plaque voters in particular? >> well, fundamentally black folks are not familiar with bernie sanders. it's hard to show up and get to know somebody and then get enthusiastic whereas in the past the clintons have a long history, there is a familiarity, there is a comfort level that they are responding to in terms of they have been there over the past several years and so i think that's been a big part of the challenge is the newness of his. >> a few months ago i interviewed a black community leader and he forewarned that hillary clinton should not take the black vote for granted, this was back in september. do you think bernie sanders's mediocre rise helped mitigate what she assumed was in the bag? has she changed her narrative in attracting more black votes? >> she has been actually much more aggressive and much more populous and really talking about the sing later of race within our society and that you

have to focus on that in particular and not just focus in on economic issues, divorce from the realities of race. so her language has been much more explicit of race than anything i have heard in 30 years in politics. >> eddie, the republicans obviously if you look at this primary season have not been inviting to any voters other than older white conservative voters. >> absolutely. >> so i'm just putting that out there. let's move that the side side, that is a give in. >> got it. >> can i now ask the question do democrats sometimes take the loyalty of black voters for granted? >> absolutely. one of the things about the discussion around senator clinton or secretary clinton is what will she do once we move out of the south? what will she do once we move out of the democratic primary and typically the strategy has been to bank right, to stop talking to the democratic base, to start moving more to the center right in order to attract the white swing voter. if that happens i'm going to be

very clear if that happens she's already running an excitement deficit among voters of color. if she banks right, if the democratic party banks right, i suspect that more and more african-americans and more and more latinos might not show up to the polls and the numbers she needs in order to win. >> steve, thank you for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> excited to have you, hope you will come back. >> i'd love to. >> the book is "brown is the new white." steve fill flips, thanks for being with us. coming up. it's the super bowl, mardi gras and talladega all together. max is that lap joins us live from c pack. no brawls between anti-trump and pro trump voters yet.

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your campaign ran a video suggesting that trump might name the russian president as his manning mate. here is a clip. >> i will have to see this. >> if elected trump promised that the duo would, quote, make tyranny great again. >> i think i'd get along very well with vladimir putin. i just think so. >> that was your campaign video, sir. >> that was a pretty good one. >> well, okay. i think you were kidding. >> yeah. >> but it was your video and the serious question is -- because the suggestion is -- do you think that donald trump is naive about the threat that vladimir

putin represents? >> i'm not biting. let me just take you around the world, okay? let me -- >> i'm not biting. you know, you are allowed to say that. i thought that was a great response. let's go right now to national harbor, maryland, and the site of cpac. we have the chairman of the american conservative union mat schlapp. we're looking behind you, i don't see any wars breaking out between the pro trump and anti-trump voters. this is going to be one of the most remarkable cpacs in it's very long history. how are things going so far? >> things are going great. i think last night we had a gate watch party and this hall was full and we got to hear people were cheering vigorously for the candidate of their choice and booing from time to time as well. my take on this, the people who have come from across the country, joe, is that they feel like this is a critical moment for the conservative movement, a critical moment for the nation and i think they are going to leave everything on the field.

they are going after each other aggressively. >> matt, it's katty kay here. one of the kind of great mysteries of this campaign is why donald trump has done so well with conservatives and with evangelical christians who don't even particularly believe that he is very christian. how do you explain it? >> you know, i think what happened is that normally your christian conservative voter and i would consider myself one of them, would care about the right to life and traditional marriage and questions of public faith or private faith in the public sector in the public square. instead what's happened is because on all those issues really progressives have won, now what a lot of christian conservatives are saying is could the government please just leave me alone and let me practice my faith and have my beliefs. maybe i can't get the government to agree with those beliefs but i want the government to leave me alone and that type of setup someone like donald trump can come in and say i will be a strong force to make that happen. i think that's also true it with some of the other candidates as well who are running. >> steve rattner.

>> matt, apart from the romney speech why he had there has been a pretty steady procession of senior elected republican congressmen, local officials, whatever, saying i'm not voting for donald trump under any circumstance. if mr. trump gets past the 1237, gets the nomination, do you believe the party can be unified with that many people? i have never seen that in my lifetime, that many people saying they will not vote for him, period? >> steve, look, i'm concerned about it. i'm more concerned about that than i've ever been since i've been in politics. one of the things that's going to happen at cpac is we will air all these differences, we will have a straw poll. we had a debate yesterday about gay marriage and the future of religious freedom, we will have a debate today about immigration, should we do something big or should we go back to building a wall and enforcing our laws? conservatives have a lot of disagreements, we're going to air those disagreements. here is one thing i heard last night, steve, that i was gives me hope. i heard every one of those

republicans on the stage say they would support the nominee. i think that's the critical step here for conservatives and for republicans. as painful as donald trump might be for some, as painful as ted cruz might be for others, whoever gets out of this nominating process if they can all pull together and support the winner and the people in this room can, too, i think we have a fighting shot against what looks to be hillary clinton. >> bianna. >> matt, we've heard the other nominees say if donald trump was the nominee they would, in fact, support him but juxtapose that to a few years earlier where you had party elders like mitt romney and john mccain speak so ill willed of donald trump. how do you square the two? how do you resolve the internal battle going on in your party right now? >> well, first of all, we have to acknowledge that it's happening. i'm not trying to sugar coat this. this is absolutely happening. there are tons of fissures out there and we have to pull it together. we will be a whole different movement and we are not going to win elections.

when you see these party elders coming out, i think it's interesting a realignment on the right with the republican party. they don't want to listen to people like mitt romney. he is a good man, a respected figure, but they don't want to listen to him on who they should vote for. what mitt romney was doing yesterday, he was sending the message to all of his fellow billionaires, to all of those big financiers who supported his race write checks. it's time to get engaged, it's time to stop donald trump. that's what that call was. and that's why you see almost an increased kind of desperation in some of these voices that they feel like if they don't do it now actually donald trump could actually get the nomination and the weird thing is i actually think they helped push -- they pushed trump's inevitability if it is, even further when they do this. so it's a crazy political plan that i just think is dumb. >> matt, i couldn't agree with you any more. endorsements make absolutely no difference this year and you're right, the more establishment figures attack donald trump, the more establishment figures help

donald trump. well, look luck. >> that's right. >> what time does trump speak there tomorrow? >> he's going to be starting us off tomorrow morning. >> okay. who needs coffee? cpac has donald trump. tomorrow morning bright and early. matt schlapp, thank you so much for being with us, we'd love to talk to you again early next week to get a wrap on cpac. that does it for us this morning on "morning joe." thank you guys so much for being with us, we greatly appreciate it. steve kornacki is going to pick up coverage next on "msnbc live" and i am going to turn off the ringer on my iphone. we got another one. i have an orc-o-gram for an "owen." that's me. ♪ you should hire stacy drew. ♪ ♪ she wants to change the world with you. ♪ ♪ she can program jet engines to talk and such. ♪ ♪ her biggest weakness is she cares too much. ♪ thank you. my friend really wants a job at ge. mine too. ♪ i'm a wise elf from a far off shire. ♪ and sanjay patel is who you should hire. ♪

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with the... fastest retinol formula. ...to visibly reduce wrinkles. neutrogena®. good morning. i'm steve kornacki. coming to you the morning after that latest republican debate. a rowdy affair in detroit last night. and now less than 24 hours before the polls open in the next slate of republican contests, four of them on the schedule for tomorrow. donald trump at this hour holding a rally in michigan. michigan which will hold its primary next tuesday. trump is fresh off that debate last night which was held in detroit, a debate where marco rubio and ted cruz were relentless in trying to bring him down. >> he has spent a career