♪ i think i was born to be married. >> really? >> i think i was born married. i was the happiest girl in the world when i became we. you know, i -- i loved that. i loved everything about marriage. >> we've had a great life. a great life.

and i was very blessed to find him. i really was. >> good day from new york. brian williams here with you where we learned a few hours ago from southern california the news that former first lady nancy reagan has died of congestive heart failure at the age of 94. what an american life hers was. she said about her life that it had been fabulous all these years. of course, the ultimate was being married to former president ronald reagan. not without its life-and-death challenges, as she was thrust into the role of caregiver, starting with the assassination attempt on her husband in 1981. we're going to talk to him later in this hour, but before we do, i wanted to quote the historian and author, michael beschloss, who in these hours since learning of the death of nancy

reagan, called her one of the most influential first ladies, certainly of the modern era. we'll hear him out on the topic of nancy reagan later. we're going to begin this hour with our friend and colleague, andrea mitchell, who came to know nancy reagan before most of us, by event of having covered her husband at the white house, andrea, you're among those i thought of when i heard the news today. what is going through your mind today? >> reporter: well, just how important and consequential she was to echo michael beschloss here, but it became more apparent certainly in the second term. in the first term, she had her difficulties. and certainly during the campaign in 1980, we saw her influence behind the scenes in staff changes. and then in the white house, she was feared by the white house staff. but those who really understood her influence and her importance as a partner to ronald reagan such as jim baker and michael

deaver, they understood that they needed to work with her, not against her in contrast to don regan and some of the other aides. and that's why they were successful in helping her make ronald reagan so successful. not only in the external aspects of the external s a pects of the white house but foreign policy and key domestic issues where he had failed, aids and recognizing the importance of that. it was viewed as a scourge for homosexuals and not discussed. but it was only after their friend rock hudson was afflicted and discovered his affliction through a picture sent to him from the white house after he had attended a state dinner and saw one of the sores on his neck and that is when he went to his own doctor and diagnosed with this mysterious disease.

throu through nancy reagan that they had overlooked for many years but then in foreign policy and most importantly east/west relations i cannot overstate her influence in opening up his mind in helping him listen to jim baker and george schultz and others going up against the defense secretary and others taking hard lines and were against any opening, any negotiation and when asked why he had not negotiated with soviet leaders he said they all keep dying on me. it was true that the soviet leaders had died and then someone who nancy reagan was persuaded and it was not easy at first but that first 1985 summit in switzerland was the first moment where there was the possibility of communication and it's hard to overstate and you

know this so well, how much was at stake. we are talking about nuclear weapons aimed from east to west and west to east, the possibility of misunderstandings. it wasn't known whether there was a hotline effected. that was all at least emillierated during initial agreements negotiated between ronald reagan and gorbachev. to say reagan was isolated among his western allies other than maggie thatcher and his own party which was divided by this. so all of the future relationships and the fall of the wall and the opening up of the eastern block, that all proceeded from the 1985 gorbachev reagan summit and i don't think that would have happened if she had not been first lady.

>> about her relationship with her husband, she was beyond close and protective as a spouse, as first lady but then came the day john hinkley emptied a revolver outside the hilton, the president became closer to death than any of us knew at the time. it took years later to understand how dicy his survival was. from then on she, it seems to me, was in a different role as caregiver. first of all, it was an every day affair never leaving the hospital. it was vital that she be there and then that kind of followed through the rest of his presidency talking about veil of alzheimer's and ending with his death in '04. >> you know, i have been

thinking a lot about at assabou i struggled about whether or not he should be released because i knew what happened to my friend and what almost happened to ronald reagan. i can really understand the protectiveness now that she exerted over his schedule, over how overtired he was during famous 1982 trip to europe where he went from a versailles summit to rome and then fell asleep with the pope and then photo opportunity and then we went on to london and estate dinner. and she railed against that and ever after there were long slow march to china because we went to california and stayed for a couple of weeks and then hawaii another couple of days and then finally to beijing in 1984 for

the all important meeting, the first meeting between ronald reagan. so much was focussed on her overprotectiveness. in the first three months of his presidency he almost died and fought to come back and they cloaked his near death with jokes released, honey i ducked and let's hope you are not a democrat to the surgeon or let's hope you are a republican, however he phrased it in the reports. in all of that that was to try at a point of real east/west conflict try to not make him appear as weakened as he was. you can understand now in retrospect we talk about transparency but they made him appear a lot stronger and rapid recovery, address to a joint session of congress. then the overprotectiveness really became very apparent. at times because of his age he

had been the oldest president until then. we all talk about it. we wrote about it. i understand that now. the fact is she was protecting while also enhancing his legacy. and it was the way any spouse would feel in watching a husband struggling at times back during the recession of 1982. she contributed to those problems with the white house china and the gowns and the luxury and then deflected it with self deprecating humor in a famous skit which helped reclaim her position and helped her enhance with just say no and other public service programs. then, of course, the role she played in the second term especially in getting don reggen fired from the white house. democrats such as bob straus and other whose would advise the president in a way that jimmy

carter never had been in this town. she helped enhance his ability to reach out to people from both political parties and to compromise. that's when you saw him going and meeting with tip o'neil. that was a very important part of the success of his presidency. >> andrea mitchell in our washington bureau who got to know as a journalist first and foremost the late nancy reagan. andrea mitchell who i note wearing red to come on television. kelly o'donnell at the white house across town. i know the obamas have put out a statement that reads at least very heart felt. >> reporter: what is striking about it is that you get the connection of one first family to another where they talk about how mrs. reagan once wrote that nothing could prepare you for

living in the white house and she was right, of course. they talk about this connection that they have to her and of course they offer their condolences. they talk about the role that she took on as an advocate on behalf of treatments and potentially the promise to improve and save lives when it comes to alzheimer's. the obamas certainly wanted to extend on behalf of the american people directly to the reagan family and sort of to the whole american experience of when you lose someone who has been a part of our history as well as our popular culture in some of the ways that your conversation with andrea which was so rich in details and bringing back dimensions to nancy reagan in her prime that are so appropriate today. i believe the last time mrs. reagan had a public event in washington was several years ago i was there at the u.s. capital where the statue of ronald reagan is inside the rotundra.

she was talking about how it was so helpful to her to come back to that place for a joyful occasion because the previous time she was there was in 2004 after her husband had passed away and there was that multi city farewell to president reagan with pomp and ceremony of a presidential state funeral. john boehner put out a comment about this today. he reminds himself of that same date. it is a lengthy statement so i will pick it up in part. president reagan was famous for his smile and nancy was usually the reason he was smiling. during her husband's presidency and the difficult years that followed nancy reagan was a rock of strength and unconditional love and a leader in her own rite. one of the great privileges of my days in the house leadership was opportunity to escort mrs. reagan at unveiling of the statue of her late husband.

i witnessed that day the love she felt for america and all she and president reagan had sacrificed to achieve during years of public service made a profound impression on me that i carried through the rest of my time in office. in reflecting on the number of statements we have seen from leaders past and present here in washington and around the country both republicans and many democrats you get the sense of honoring her service and dignity in which she carried herself and strength conveyed to many families suffering with illnesses not always understood and are not plent to go through. she gave a certain err of calm in dealing with what had to have been a very tough several years of alzheimer's. she had a respectful and dignified manner that i think was an example to a lot of families and they can connect to that. it is not just the politics. it's not just her place in life

but unique aspects of nancy reagan's life being remembered. >> kelly o'donnell in front of what was for two presidential terms the temporary east coast home of nancy reagan and her husband, the president. thank you very much. we will take a quick break in our coverage. when we come back we will talk with the historian and author and later men like colon powell will join us to remember former first lady nancy reagan dead today at the age of 94. (engine winding up) (pilot talking to tower on radio) once you get out here... there's just one direction... forward. one time: now. and there's just one sound. you and us...

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we learn as too many other families have learned of the terrible pain and loneliness that must be endured as each day brings another reminder of this very long good bye.

>> nancy reagan at the gop convention in '96 talking about her husband's illness, his eventual death would come in 2004. nancy reagan has died at the age of 94, congestive heart failure. the word came from southern california today. if you are a republican candidate for office you would not dream of not mentioning ronald reagan during one of the many debates in this season t. has been the rule in the gop since the presidency of ronald reagan. as you can imagine this coming in the middle of this political season, this boisterous political season we are hearing from a number of people reacting to the death of the former first lady correspondent hallie jackson in off the campaign trail long enough to assess. >> reporter: so far we have heard from all four republican presidential candidates on the death of nancy reagan.

you are right in that ronald reagan's legacy has been front and center in the campaign. every candidate has talked about carrying on his mantle. marco rubio says for conservatives she has been a powerful living link to her husband's legacy as one of the greatest modern presidents, a devoted partner through her work with the reagan library, active in extending impact of his leadership and mess mg to a new generation. rubio reflecting on a personal moment back in 2011. he was speaking at the foundation. he remembered how gracious and warm nancy reagan was to he and his wife. that is another common theme you are hearing from political reaction we are getting. president and secretary clinton say hillary and i were deeply saddened to learn of nancy reagan's passing. nancy was an extraordinary woman, gracious first lady, a proud mother and devoted wife to

president reagan, her strength of character was legendary and throughout his battle with alzheimer's. we talked about that assass nation attempt and what it did to nancy reagan. you can see the outpouring of support crosses party lines and something noted by secretary clinton and bernie sanders, the democratic rivals running for president. sanders pointing out no matter your party this is a sad day for america. nancy reagan was a devoted partner, her husband's most trusted adviser and served our country well. she was an outspoken advocate for stem cell research to find a cure for alzheimer's. you are hearing folks talk about her policy developments, the work with alzheimer's, the work with stem cell research, just say no to drugs campaign. the common thread is the love for her husband and the strength that their marriage had.

i think john mccain may have summed it up best saying i will remember her as a dear friend and patriot and one half of a love story that hollywood couldn't have written any better. it is striking when you see those pictures of president reagan and nancy reagan together you are reminded of how deep their love was and how important it was to their relationship and to her legacy moving forward. >> hallie jackson, taking time off from covering the cruz campaign to count up and take stock of voices we are hearing from today reaction from the death of nancy reagan. we want to hear from representative of congress and around as a young man in washington. he also happens to be our friend and the host of morning joe, joe scarborough. i wonder where your thoughts are today and if you reflected with reaganism as part of the gop

banner that you ever not invoke at something like a debate. on her personal politics which now can be told were moderate to liberal for the time and even by today's standards. >> right. they definitely were. certainly for the republican party then as now but what ronald reagan was able to do that no republican was able to do in the 25 to 30 years that followed his passing as an elected leader is he was able to actually put together these disparate parts of the republican party including the populist strain and angry populist strain, reagan democrats that now may be siding with donald trump, the business community that now may be siding with, let's say, marco rubio, and the evangelical community that may be siding with ted

cruz. they were able to bring them together. ronald reagan back in 1966 when he first ran for governor was attacked because extremists supported his campaign. the john birch society in particular. when he was asked if he accepted their support ronald reagan said i don't support them. if they want to support what i believe in, that's their business. and that is how ronald reagan handled it then. republicans haven't been able to do that as well. i said they were able to do it because anybody that knows the story of ronald and nancy reagan knows that their story was first and foremost a love story. they were happily co dependent. when ronald reagan was shot in 1981 and nancy reagan had to go to the wedding of prince charles and lady diana she did not want to go. it was very hard for them to separate themselves from each

other even for a week. more than any public figure, any public couple that we have probably seen live in the white house in some time, they were happily co dependent. they were self contained. they didn't need anybody else. they were one not only as a married couple but as a political force. >> also, they were connected. there were comparisons in real time to the star studdedness of the kennedy years at the white house. this was a huge part of nancy reagan's life. she loved the life and she loved her hollywood friendships. so there was sinatra, travolta, the famous picture with princess diana, was going to feature better than average stars and better than average entertainment. >> no doubt about it.

there was also, though, the nancy reagan politicians in 2016, the nancy reagan that reached out to people that absolutely pommelled her and her husband in the press. famously making friendships even with people like katherine graham, publisher of the washington post whose newspaper was not always kind to ronald and nancy reagan. they emersed themselves in washington, d.c. in a way that many politicians in 2016 do not. and because of that ronald reagan had the good will, at least, of the washington community. even when they disagreed with him he could continue moving forward. he had his famous relationship with tip o'neil. nancy reagan had famous relationship with democrats, as well. that is not to say that nancy reagan wasn't tough. she was tough. i'm sure you will remember she

may not have gotten off on the right foot literally with a lot of reporters when she passed the rule that if you were going to come to the white house and be at a press conference you had to wear socks that went up to your knees. she did not want to see exposed shins in the press conference. and she did several other things to try to button up the white house a bit after the blue jegj presidency of jimmy carter. she was a tough advocate for the things he believed in. >> she was right back then about a lot of things and remains right today. thanks for being with us on this broadcast today. another break and when we come back we will hear from the man who concludes that nancy reagan

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it is very hard to look back on the life of nancy reagan without the larger contest of nancy and ronald reagan. of course, the former first lady would have it no other way. he was a huge and formative force in her life. they were married 52 years. it was very central to look back at her life we took just a few years ago. >> reporter: nancy reagan always said her life started when she met her husband, she was his partner, adviser and best friend. as a love story theirs was unrivalled. >> we have had a great life, a great life. i was very blessed to find him.

>> reporter: she was born ann francis robins on july 6, 1921 in new york city. her parents divorced when she was a baby. nancy was raised by her aunt while her own mother worked as an actress. when she was 6 her mother remarried and nancy was adopted by her step father, a prominent chicago neurosurgeon. after studying drama nancy went to hollywood. she was signed by mgm in 1949. the year she arrived in hollywood nancy met ronald reagan when he was president of the screen actors guild and already a major movie star. he was a democrat. she was a ren. she was single. he had ended his marriage. nancy and ron married on march 4th, 1952 in a simple ceremony. >> i think i was born to be married. i was the happiest girl in the

world when i became we. >> reporter: in 1956 the reagans appeared together in "hellcats of the naviy." >> i began to think you were playing the south sea circuit. >> you knew better. >> how could i know? >> it was the last of her 11 films. >> tell me if you are not frightened. >> reporter: she quit acting to devote herself to her husband. they had two children together patty and ron. ronald reagan had two children from his first marriage. nancy reagan's political life began when ronald reagan was elected governor of california in 1966. ♪ ronald reagan was elected president in 1980. >> i will execute the office of president of the united states. >> reporter: after only two months in office he was shot by a would-be assassin outside a

washington hotel. mrs. reagan was forever shaken. >> every time he went out and talked to thousands of people my heart stopped. >> reporter: to ease her fears she began to consult an astrologer on the president's schedule. >> how many people think your husband or your wife is going to ever be shot and almost die? >> reporter: she was often called the most stylish first lady since jacqueline kennedy. mrs. reagan was also criticized for spending frivolously while the nation was in a recession and was chastised for raising private funds to redecorate the white house, getting new china and wearing expensive designer gowns called queen nancy. the white house highlighted her anti-drug efforts. mrs. reagan had substantial

influence in her husband's administration and was accused of managing the president. once she was caught publically supplying a line. >> doing everything we can. >> doing everything we can. >> i think i'm aware of people who are trying to take advantage of my husband. >> how are you feeling? >> reporter: in 1994 in a hand written letter to the american people president reagan announced his diagnosis, alzheimer's disease. nancy's devotion to her husband only grew as his condition worsened she rarely left his side. >> we learned as too many families have learned of the terrible pain and loneliness that must be endured as each day brings another reminder of this very long good bye. >> what would have happened to me if i hadn't married ronnie. >> thank you for just being you. >> there is never going to be another ronnie. >> in our day of cynicism when

you look at her make those statements about her husband as andrea mitchell and others have said and will say, nancy reagan was absolutely sincere in her adoration of her husband, the former president. let's bring historkrn and author michael beshloss in to join this conversation. looking back at all of this video tape, some of it film in standard low definition in an hd era i know it seems like it was 100 years ago but it wasn't. you and i were around to witness a lot of it. as couples go they were all together different. think of it this way, a first lady and a president who have imdb pages, both in their own rite. we have never seen anything like this before. while i was racing to the office, driving to work listening to your voice on msnbc on satellite radio you said she is among our most influential

first ladies. explain why. >> i think it is hard to disagree with that. you and i have talked a lot about the fact that one thing you ask about a historical figure is would history have been different if this person had not been there? so ask about nancy reagan. would ronald reagan have become president if he had not married nancy? probably not. would he been as major a president if she were not the first lady i argue that wouldn't have happened either. this is someone who did change history and all of our lives. >> was she unfairly covered in her own time thinking about the mini scandal referred to in the short hand of white house china. how was that wrongly reported at the time? how was just say no her anti-drug campaign perhaps wrongly reported in the years since? >> i think in terms of the

spending of money in the first year or two she said later on she said to me on one occasion i was less sensitive than i should have been to the fact that the country was going through a recession and people were really undergoing hardship even though in decorating the white house and buying china she was doing that with private money. she felt that the message was wrong. she was criticized for lack of seriousness about just say no. i think that was wrong for her to be criticized in that fashion. that was a program that she spent a lot of effort and emotional energy on. >> michael, in private people were often surprised to learn she was all about the motion picture business. she was all about hollywood. she left hollywood for a few years it never left her. she got all the magazines, everything you saw at the news stand was in her home and loved talking about it. she stayed current eveb as her circle of beloved friends started to dwindle.

>> that is absolutely right. that was a feature of those years as you were saying earlier when you went to a state dinner in the reagan white house which i did not have the pleasure of doing, i think i was too young at that point to think of such a thing, it was full of stars, many people whom she knew. she was in touch with frank sinatra, the best man at their wedding was william holden. one of the things i was mentioning earlier that she told me was that at their small wedding 1952 william holden and his wife were having a fight that day. they didn't say a word during the entire ceremony. >> 1952. there you have it. so to you it is beyond debate we are going to be hearing a lot about this woman, this presidency, her 52-year marriage to her husband. it is beyond debate that she had a heftier than usual impact on

foreign and domestic policy. >> i think. and that begins with the way this marriage began. she rescued him. her early days as a married woman were spent sitting in the audience watching her husband perform on stage. it was almost humiliating for him to support the family. then you get to 1980s. this is someone who helped make a big change in foreign policy during first term reagan challenged the soviets, said it was an evil empire and increased defense budget. 1985 when gorbachev became leader of the soviet union and many people around ronald reagan were saying this guy is not for real, another stalin, she strongly encouraged him to stand up to those people in his entourage and try to create conditions that would lead to the end of the cold war. it had a lot to do with the fact that she was there so strong.

we all owe her a huge debt for that. >> one final question to you to paraphrase an expression pity the person who got side ways with nancy reagan. >> for sure. >> don reggen comes to mind, the former chief of merrill lynch brought in to bring a business to the west wing and got side ways with the first lady while working for her husband. >> made the slight mistake of hanging up the telephone on nancy reagan at a moment that they were having words which was not a very wise thing to do. but that is another thing that she brought to that partnership. ronald reagan had wonderful qualities, great optimist but not always a shrewd judge of people. nancy reagan, on the other hand, if there was someone in the room who had potential for doing ill to her husband or not serving them well she had this almost x ray vision she could sense that and act on it.

i think she made his presidency in many ways. >> if we had the next six hours to ourselves i don't think i would exhaust the list of question yz have to ask you on this question. thank you so much as always for being with us. our coverage will take a brief break and continue with our look at nancy reagan right after this. life as spokesbox is great. people love me for saving them over half a grand when they switch to progressive. so i'm dabbling in new ventures. it was board-game night with the dalai lama. great guy. terrible player. ♪ go paperless ♪ don't stress, girl ♪ i got the discounts that you need ♪ it's a balancing act, but i got to give the people what they want -- more box. any words for the critics? what can i say? crites gonna neg. [ applause ] the what?! [ laughs ]

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both of them did. we want to talk about the social swirl, the social life of those days and how they change the white house, the vibe of the white house entirely. gale hodge s burt is with us from washington. she was social secretary during the reagan administration. i'm not making too much of this because it really was important. americans were watching and we went from the austerity of the carter years when if memory serves there wasn't a lot of drinking in the white house to the kind of ring ading ding error where frank sninatra was regular visitor. >> frank sinatra would help us with every single state visit

that we had to make sure that it was picture perfect. and it started there and it went on. we had a state dinner every single month. we had a state visit every month. mrs. reagan was a firm believer in friendship and the art of friendship and she knew that the way to establish friendship was to meet face-to-face and have a meal together. she rolled out the carpet for heads of state and states every month. it kept us very busy but she appreciated the importance of it so that by the time the tough stuff came around to the president friendships had boiee forged. >> they couldn't change who their friends were from the hollywood years. they remained their friends and

able to freely socialize once they left the white house. she did want to up the elegance of the place. they were coming off four very quiet years, the carter presidency. and in doing so that is when she got knicked with expenditures to try to in her view too much time had lapsed since the last good spiffing that the social side of the white house had received. >> right. she did get dinged on that quite a bit. she did raise private money. this was not taxpayers' dollars. she felt and by the way the reagan china is still the only complete set of china at the white house, so when you have 150 people for dinner you now have the same china to serve them on. you know, she got dinged for it but she recovered.

i think the people let her recover from it. she did this great spoof at the national press club dinner where she dressed up as a bag lady and i think after that washington sort of gave her a pass. washington was very suspicious of these west coast people. as was said before she set about to make kay graham one of her very good friends even though her paper was dinging her husband on a daily basis. and so the art of friendship was really embedded in her. she knew how to do it. she forged the kitchen cabinet how through the car pool line at her kids' school she met mary jane wick and betsy blooming dale and the kitchen cabinet was

born. and it was really through these friendships that she paved the way for the president, for ronald reagan to become a great president. >> one final question. if you look at the white house as kind of a downtownen abby in our country and the reagans as the current occupants as lord and lady to serve them, how did they get along with the people who make the white house go? >> very well. there wasn't a dry eye left. as a matter of fact her dare dog rex was named after a white house staffer that she was very close to. so it went very deep. >> thank you so much for sharing your memories with us. former social secretary at the white house. appreciate it very much. craig shirley is on the phone. he is a historian who has spent a lot of time looking at, studying and writing about the

reagan years among others. your thoughts today. >> well, very sad the passing of an era. nancy reagan was a great lady. she understood the role of first lady. she understood the role of the e two. she didn't attend cabinet meetings. she didn't try to set policy. you know, she didn't have her own, you know, cabinet, so to speak. she understood that for a healthy nation, must have a healthy president, and so she did the very important things of making sure that ronnie was in good spirits, that he was eating, that he was dressed, but she also said to us, look, she wrote in her book, one of her books, that i sleep next to the president of the nights so, of course, i'm going to let him know what i think of things, and she did. but to his credit an to her credit they never really talked about, you know, her advice to him. she didn't get involved in

personnel occasionally like for instance she had a hand in forcing the ouster of reagan's campaign manager and later the ouster of don regan. she understood his legacy was important. of course, her greatest role was caretaker in his later years. it was almost like an oh henry novel if that she was giving a part of her self in order to save him. >> of course, the more we change as a nation the more we remain the same. as you remind me of how many times she was criticized for perceived mettling in policy and government affairs. here we are in this modern day and aiming, our current first lady, michelle obama, criticized by a ton of people for, quote, meddling with school lunches and kind of advising america we need to improve our diet. >> right. >> the more things change the

more we remain the same. >> two for one blue plate special. people would get almost co-presidency, not just bill, but hillary as well. she sold herself as a political person to go along with bill clinton so, yes, times have changed. >> yeah. i wonder if -- when was the next first lady who had the influence on domestic and foreign policy that nancy reagan did, and i ask that only because she was thrust into the role of caregiver very early on in her husband's presidency, and that forged them really even closer. >> yes, it did. and don't forget too, they walked into -- and you remember, you were here at the time, i was here at the at the time, into what was basically behind enemy lines in washington, d.c. they didn't like the reagans, didn't like the way they dressed, their social skills, their friends, and there was a lot of criticism from the style

section of "the washington post," some of it very personal and from other media outlets so that in a way it drew them even closer in a way than they already had been. but, you know, brian, stu spencer once told me he was going on a political trip -- you remember reagan's old political aide. he was going on a political trip with reagan and in and si dronam to the l.a. train station. nancy and ronald reagan enbraced, and businessmen and women are coming and going and they're embracing tenderly, oblivious to the world around them and in many ways that was the story of their life. they could be utterly, completely content with each other without the company of anybody else. >> i'm still getting used to the image of nancy reagan driving to the train station. craig shirley, always a pleasure. thank you for for joining us by telepho telephone.

>> you bet. >> general barry mccaffrey is also with us. you would be right to ask what a retired army four-star general, a professional warrior is doing on this day when we're all reacting to the death of nancy reagan. let's not forget something else very key to the resume of public service that general mccaffrey has amassed, and that is former drug czar of the united states. a title that's been shortened to drug czar. i think it was director of anti-drug policy. but, general mccaffrey, it's in that context i'd love to know your thoughts about the former first lady. >> well, certainly, both in national security, which we've already discussed, she played an important role, and we ought to underscore, remember, she was a major factor along with secretary baker in pushing the president to break the cold war with the russians, but put that aside. when it comes to drug policy, you know, at the time she was enormously criticized and in

later years on the whole notion of just say no, and yet when you look at all the research and the success we've had over the years dealing with the drug issue, the key is adolescence. instead of underscoring law enforcement policy or international interdiction efforts, she said let's talk to children, educate them, if you can get a kid to age 18, 19 reasonably drug-free, they're safe for the rest of their lives, so i think she was an extremely positive influence, and current research really underscore that is whole notion. brian, the slogan i used to use was if you want to fight a war on drugs, sit down at your kitchen table and talk to your own children. that was nancy reagan. >> and, of course, it stands to reason that just say no would be perfectly valid advice. why do you think it was in the years hence so roundly mocked?

>> well, i think that sort of thing still goes on. remember another ad at the time, television ad, was your brain on drugs and a couple frying eggs and that was just ludicrous in the minds of drug legalization community, and yet we know perfectly well -- i just went to a dinner at the national institute of drug abuse advisers and we absolutely know if you use a lot of these mind-altering substances, you end up changing the neurochemistry of the brain, and so, you know, i think nancy reagan and her role in understanding that adolescents were at the heart and sole of a society minimizing the extent of drug and alcohol addiction. now, we've got 12 million people in the country who have alcohol or illegal drug addictions. it's a huge challenge to deal with it, so what nancy reagan was saying on the front end of it, sit down, coaches, home room school teachers, ministers, and

tell your kids, you know, on this team and in this school, we don't use drugs. >> general barry mccaffrey, who served her husband when he was commander in chief and served in the fight nationally against drugs as drug czar. general, always a pleasure. thank you very much. >> good to be with you, brian. >> our coverage of the death of nancy reagan continues right after this. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain... shoots and burns its way into your day, i hear you. to everyone with this pain that makes ordinary tasks extraordinarily painful, i hear you. make sure your doctor hears you too! i hear you because i was there when my dad suffered with diabetic nerve pain. if you have diabetes and burning, shooting pain in your feet or hands, don't suffer in silence! step on up and ask your doctor about diabetic nerve pain. tell 'em cedric sent you. when you think what does it look like? is it becoming a better professor

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