♪ good sunday night. this was a democratic debate that started off friendly enough. >> what is happening in flint to a lesser degree is happening throughout this country. in recent years, we have seen a proliferation of millionaires and billionaires, and increase in income and wealth and equality. >> i'll start by saying amen to that. we are here in flint.

i'm very grateful that my request that we hold this debate be held here, so we can continue to shine a very bright spotlight on what has happened. >> and then the gloves came off. >> excuse me, i'm talking. >> if you're going to talk, tell the whole story. >> good evening to you. i am ari. this is msnbc's special coverage post-democratic debate which just wrapped up in flint, michigan, of course. we go right to the spin room at the debate site in flint. kristen welker following the clinton campaign. following a really interesting debate tonight. we saw obviously discussion of what happened in flint, the water crisis, and race, policing, guns. your view first on how hillary clinton managed what she appears to think is a really improving scenario for her in this race. >> well, ari, look, i think this is one of the most raucous

democratic debates we have seen. it comes across this back drop. secretary clinton increased her delegate lead this weekend. sanders had wins in maine tonight and then kansas, of course. and nebraska yesterday. so that was the back drop. we saw some really sharp exchanges. you mentioned some of them. there was this brief moment of unity with both of the candidates calling for the governor here in michigan to step down over that water crisis, and that is where the unity ended. one of the sharpest exchanges came when senator sanders took aim at secretary clinton for supporting nafta. that's the trade deal during the '90s. a lot of folks in michigan blame that for job losses here. she fired back, essentially saying, you are responsible for job losses as well, senator sanders, for opposing the 2009 auto bailout. she said that could have potentially caused loss of billions of jobs if that hadn't moved forward in congress.

you played some of those moments, those memorable moments. senator sanders saying, excuse me. both candidates cutting each other in a way that we really haven't seen in past debates, ari. then there were some really fascinating, interesting moments. senator sanders just moments ago talking about his religion for the first time. i think one of the only times we've heard him really talk about this in-depth, saying that his entire father's family was wiped out in the holocaust. he got very personal. secretary clinton talking about her faith as well. i think all in all, the takeaway from this debate, you had both of the candidates very firmly standing their ground. i think it's going to be tough to pick out a winner tonight, because they both had strong positions and defended them vigorously. i think it helped senator sanders a little bit. because again, the momentum, he came into the evening with momentum. i think he did carry that through and continue it through the evening. we'll have to see, though, with

the folks waiting to come out in the spin room. we'll get everyone's take within the campaign, ari. >> speaking about some of the agreement on the local issues, on the flint water crisis, let's take a listen to secretary clinton talking about her agreement with sanders on part of that. >> i agree. the governor should resign or be recalled. and we should -- [ applause ] >> -- support the efforts of citizens attempting to achieve that. but that is not enough. i support a hundred percent the efforts by your senators and members of congress to get the money from the federal government in order to begin the work that must occur to fix the infrastructure. the states should also be sending money immediately to help this city. it is raining lead in flint. and the state is derelict in not coming forward with the money

that is required. >> secretary clinton -- >> raining lead in flint. obviously strong language. secretary clinton, as you know from traveling with her, kristen, talked about that. that was a point of agreement. i also want to play for folks here, though, another really interesting exchange with the auto bailout. of course, a big issue in michigan and around the country because, of course, the auto bailout funds were co-mingled with the wall street funds that was controversial. secretary clinton was on offense there. >> i'll tell you something else mr. sanders was against. he was against the auto bailout. in january of 2009, president-elect obama asked everybody in the congress to vote for the bailout. the money was there and had to be released in order to save the american auto industry, and 4 million jobs. and to begin the restructuring. we just had the best year the auto industry has had in a long

time. i voted to save the auto industry. he voted against the money that ended up saving the auto industry. i think that is a pretty big difference. >> you hear the applause there, because obviously that was popular in michigan. joy reed also joining us. kristen, how did that play in the room? >> it played very well, ari. i think there are two parts of that exchange, which are important to highlight. first, you have secretary clinton again embracing president obama. he's very popular among democrats, very popular here. and as you rightfully point out, the auto bailout is very popular here. president obama ran on the auto bailout when he tried to -- he was locked in a tight fight with mitt romney. that is one of the issues that helped him win ohio, for example, some of the midwestern states. she's not only embracing president obama, she's actually using a tactic he used when he was running for election, which

was to tout the impact of the auto bailout which is incredibly popular in this region. >> kristen welker, thank you, we'll come back to you. joy, how did bernie sanders strike you tonight? >> i think that kristen is exactly right that the rift on the auto bailout was one of the most contentious points of the night, and the most important for voters who will go to the polls on tuesday. bernie sanders kept trying to pivot away from the auto bailout, back to the wall street bailout. back to the idea that big corporations and wall street were bailed out. he never directly addressed the question that hillary clinton kept coming back to over and over and over again, which was the automobile bailout itself. that could be important here. of course, this state, there's no state that probably had more of a stake in the idea of bailing out the industry than this one. than the city of detroit. and then the stated of michigan. i tha that is going to be an important factor.

i think another important part of the debate was the rift on race. this was an in-depth discussion, and unique and interesting discussion on race. we hadn't really heard anything like it before, where hillary clinton talked very bluntly about things like white privilege, like bernie sanders was asked when he had a moment that he discovered there was an other-ness to people in this country. working with a colleague in congress where he couldn't get a cab. white americans not knowing what it's like to live in the ghetto. >> joy, let's play that. let's get your comments on it, since you mention it. that is what i thought immediately online that people were reacting to that. >> when you're white, you don't know what it's like to be living in a ghetto. you don't know what it's like to be poor. you don't know what it's like to be hassled when you walk down the street. or you get dragged out of a car. and i believe that is a nation in the year 2016.

we must be firm in making it clear, we will end institutional ra racism and reform a broken criminal justice system. >> was that a good answer? >> the complication there is, of course, millions of white americans do know what it's like to be poor. the sort of formulation of the ghetto might be an age thing, a generational way of talking about poverty. but it's not as if all african-americans are poor, or no white americans know what it's like to be poor. he married it to the criminal justice issue and issues of policing. bland was a college graduate before she was killed, before she died, i should say, in texas. trayvon martin came from a middle class suburb of miami. he wasn't living in poverty. they're not related necessarily to poverty. they're related to race. i think that it speaks to one of the difficulties for bernie sanders across the boards of this campaign, directly

addressing race without marrying it somehow to economic want. i think that's one of his challenges going forward. >> very interesting. something sanders struggles with where the economic critique takes precedence over everything, as you mentioned, joy. we'll come back to you in the hour. we're going to the clinton chairman. thank you, joy. i want to bring in professor warren, and joan walsh. your resume and credentials in your current post. >> there's so many to talk about. i appreciate it. >> picking up on that, obviously starting with you dorian, in michigan, where the car industry is big, the flint water crisis is important. but the third piece is another diverse electorate with the primary coming and that has been a division here in this primary between these two candidates. and their different constituencies. we were just discussing race and the broader issues. >> i met with many of the

residents in flint this morning. one of the observations i have about this debate is senator sanders needed a game-changing moment to stop the momentum, especially in terms of african-american voters in the state. i don't think we saw that tonight. what was interesting in terms of, i think this is a gender difference, actually. the answer from both of them on race, and on gun safety legislation, in some ways secretary clinton actually showed empathy. and describing the children -- the families of sandy hook. she said imagine yourselves as those parents. she was inviting people to have a moment of empathy. and senator sanders went right to sort of defending his record on gun safety legislation. in terms of race, i think they both did okay on that question, in terms of the question about what in your experience, they both ignored the question at first and then don lemon had to ask it again to both of them. in that sense there was sort of, for both of them, they struggled to relate, even though they've

been listening to residents in detroit and flint. the other observation i have about senator sanders in particular on race, he always pivots back to criminal justice and policing. even though he ended that -- his answer by saying, we have to take up institutional racism. he sort of conflates race and class that all black people are poor, instead of a much broader sense, whar the range of policies, lead poisoning, public education that affect african-american communities. i don't think we saw a game-changing moment from governor sanders. that's exactly what he needs going into this primary election on tuesday. >> i want to get joan's response right after this. we'll go right back to the spin room where john podesta is. your thoughts on this. and if you have a question or thought for john, we'll do both. >> first of all, this is a great debate. if you like one of these candidates, you saw what you like about them. she was very detailed.

she was very policy wonky. he talked about big ideas. but again, i agree with dorian he didn't have the moment he needed and in fact missed some moments. he missed a moment on race. i think he also missed a moment on education. this is, to me, the stark contrast between the two candidates. that she came in, she wants an educational s.w.a.t. team. i don't love that language, but we'll fix broken schools, give federal money to fix the schools, to recruit new teachers. and he pivoted rather quickly. he said my campaign is about big ideas and he went to a debt-free college. that mother was really talking about the rodents and mold in the classrooms in detroit. this is time and again, he kind of misses the opportunity to go deeper. >> let's go out to john poddesta in the spin room. what was the biggest moment in your eyes tonight? >> ari, i thought this was an important debate. really a substantive debate.

i thought the -- senator sanders' inability to really answer the question why he had voted not to release the funds for the auto bailout after president-elect obama had requested that in january of 2009 is going to play very poorly here in michigan in particular. but across ohio and indiana and illinois as the secretary pointed out. he seemed sort of off-key on the entire question. of course, as you know, we think he's a single-issue candidate. he brought that back to wall street. he brings everything back to wall street. but he just simply couldn't answer the question of why he didn't vote to release the funds that president-elect obama urged him to do. i think that will be an important factor on tuesday. >> on the guns issue, he argued

that the gun immunity bill that he supported was important, because otherwise you wouldn't be able to manufacture guns in the united states. what did you think of that defense? >> this was a flip-flop-flip as you know. he started off defending that vote, and then he said he had reversed himself, said he wanted to take away their immunity, now he's kind of doubled down on them and put himself up against the sandy hook parents, which seemed extraordinary actually to me. during the course of earlier debates, he said implicitly that that vote had been a mistake and he was willing to look at reversing it and supporting legislation to take away the immunity. i think hillary nailed it when she said this is the only corporation whose greed that you accept. i think that he'll have to be explaining that, i think, in the days to come as well. >> we also have donald trump out there. this was discussed briefly at the debate. his argument against your candidate is, it's not even

clear if she'll be able to run if there is an ongoing federal inquiry into the e-mail. that this is some kind of cloud hanging over her. what is your response to that? is it possible in your view that that investigation runs all the way through november? >> it sounds like they're wrapping it up. we urge everybody to cooperate. now, everybody evidently is cooperating. it was a security review. but we find ourselves in the same situation as colin powell, and condi rice's top aides in having e-mails retroactively classified. as colin powell said, to some extent this is an absurdity. we've cooperated. the fbi's doing what it's going to do. i think it sounds like from what we read in the newspaper, we have no reason to know or not know, but for what we read in the newspaper, that they intend to wrap it up fairly soon. we're not worried about it. >> john podesta, thank you for

joining us on a busy night. we'll hear directly from the bernie sanders campaign. stay with us.

secretary clinton said it gets personal. my one issue is trying to rebuild a disappearing middle class. that's my one issue. >> we talk about corporate greed. the gun manufacturers sell guns to make as much money as they can make. >> fireworks at the democratic debate that just wrapped up. we are live with special coverage through midnight east coast time. kasie hunt is traveling with the bernie sanders campaign in flint michigan, in the spin room. what jumped out at you about sanders' performance tonight? >> hey, ari. well, tonight we got a little more of a taste than we have in the past of sanders' personality. his proponents would call it

authenticity, if you will. i just talked to his top campaign officials here in the spin room. i asked them about those moments where bernie sanders jumped in kind of over top of hillary clinton and said, please let me finish. and they both said that they don't buy into comparisons to rick blazio and barack obama, the two other men who debated hillary clinton and had difficult moments on the debate stage with her. obviously rick lazio going on to lose to barack obama, who went on to win the democratic nomination after he made that remark in the debate saying you're likable enough, hillary. devine was arguing to me in this case, it's just how bernie is. i'm using his first name because that's how tad devine described him. he said that's just bernie being bernie. we wouldn't ask him to change for anything. they're defending that at this point. the other thing i want to draw your attention to, ari, is the

issue of the auto bailout. this is a little bit of a tricky set of votes and some back-and-forth. this isn't quite as clear-cut as when mitt romney said it in that now infamous "new york times" headline, don't bailout the auto industry. this is the case when there was a vote to use the bill on the second half of t.a.r.p. funds for the bailout. bernie sanders did vote against that. they dispute that her characterization was fair, ari. >> let's get a little more of that when we come back to you. we have tad devine, and a long time democratic politics guru. good evening to you, tad. >> hi, ari. >> as a factual matter, he did vote, of course, against the original t.a.r.p. authorization, which had a lot of money for wall street. and frankly, controversial for that nature. and then january 15th, 2009, barack obama incoming, voted against releasing the remaining 350 mill that went to the auto industry.

what do you protest? >> well, i protest the fact in december 2008 he voted for the auto bailout, okay? and at that time he publicly stated that he supported bailing out the auto industry. it was disingenuous of them to say he opposed. what he opposed was a huge bailout of wall street. that's what he opposed. for them to make that connection is just wrong. >> you don't think the 350 mill didn't have anything to do with anything that went elsewhere? >> most of that money went to wall street to bail out banks. bern why i was against the middle class of america bailing out the banks of wall street. he refuses to take their money. she's taking tens of millions of dollars in super pac. even though they said they wouldn't use the super pacs in the primaries, they're using them today. we would submit that the -- her support of wall street is due to the fact that wall street is underpinning her campaign today

financially. >> what do you think was sanders' best moment tonight? >> well, i think talking about trade policy. particularly here in michigan, here in flint. the fact that he had a great discussion of trade policy with her. and made the case that the disastrous deals of the '90s and other times as well have cost millions of american jobs. hillary clinton invokes the '90s when it's to her advantage. she said we shouldn't talk about the '90s when we talk about nafta. i think the case he made will resonate across the country. >> something the clinton campaign said earlier on this broadcast. podesta saying you have a flip-flop-flip on the gun immunity bill. he voted for it, then he said he basically regretted that vote. and tonight he was making a defense of it, saying if you don't give them blanket

immunity, maybe you wouldn't be able to produce guns in the u.s. your response? >> my response is, what he was saying is, that if every gun manufacturer is sued, every time someone uses a gun to kill someone, we'll have no guns in the united states. very logical argument. the biggest flip-flop tonight was after the opening statements when hillary clinton said she's calling for the resignation of the michigan governor. it did take a minute for her to change her position. i'm glad on all these issues where she changed her position, the transpacific partnership, the keystone pipeline, now the resignation of michigan's governor. it shows that bernie is setting the agenda for this debate. she wants to be where bernie is on issues. >> tad devine, thank you very much. we go to kristen welker. go ahead. >> i'm asking about flint. >> kristen, go ahead, you're live. kristen welker in the spin room. >> thank you. i think this is the last question.

>> we have kristen welker, she couldn't quite hear me before. if you can hear me now, go ahead. >> i'm here with communications director for the clinton campaign. so, jen, your initial reaction to tonight's debate, very fiery. >> very fiery. also very substantive. i think it was probably the most substantive exchange that we've had. also, there were a little bit of fireworks. i think that it was useful. we think -- >> ari, i can hear you. i'm here with jen palmeri. can you hear me back in the studio? >> yes, we're on a delay, but go ahead. >> can you hear what we're saying here? >> yes. >> here with communications director jen. what was your general reaction? fiery debate? >> it was fiery but substantive. we think that that's really use follow for voters to see, particularly at this point of the process. we think that what is revealed in those exchanges is the core difference between the two of

them. hillary clinton is a progressive who likes to get results. and senator sanders is a single-issue candidate and almost singly focused on wall street. it was remarkable, no matter what the topic was, whether why he didn't vote for the auto bailout or even in questions related to flint, he comes back to wall street. and her focus is on how we can actually solve problems. >> let's start with the issue of flint. the sanders campaign is saying that secretary clinton flip-flopped to some extent. tonight she came out for the first time calling for the resignation of the governor. why tonight and was that a last-minute decision to flip-flop? >> if you look at how they handled flint, he says governor snider should resign. she came in early to flint, particularly in comparison to senator sanders. she listened. she figured out what she could do to tangibly help and followed up. tonight she also added that he should resign, or there should be a recall. she's always said there should

be measure of accountability. her point tonight, she made this point tonight, and her point has always been when senator sanders talks about governor snider resigning as a solution, that's not a solution. that's not going to deal with the medical problems that children here are having. it's not going to get the pipes rebuilt. her focus is on exclusisolution. >> the people in flint said not enough has been done. there's concern that the issue is getting politicized. your response to that? and do you worry that's the image it's leaving? >> certainly you don't want that to be the image. i think that the focus on flint has -- or the attention on flint has helped to bring focus to solving the problem. i think that that is largely to the good. hillary clinton is someone who doesn't walk away from a problem, or forget about it once the cameras are turned off. and today there was the delivery of promise for loans that her organization helped bring about.

and she's always going to be focused on solving problems and trying to find solutions. even when she's not in office. >> final question. again, the issue of wall street. senator sanders again calling her to release her transcripts. she had the same answer. does she need to release the transcripts to put the matter to rest? >> no. senator sanders keeps raising this because he's looking for another avenue to make the discounted and false attack that she is somehow -- that contributions from wall street or anywhere influence her policy. we have already proven that to not be the case. as a presidential candidate, after the speeches, she's put forward a very strong wall street accountability plan, more effective than what senator sanders has done. we understand what they're trying to do. they are trying to -- it's another way of smearing her integrity. and we're not falling for it. >> jen, thank you very much. ari, i'll toss it back to you. >> we're going to continue our live breaking coverage here looking at the fallout from the

big democratic debate in flint, michigan. after the break, we'll speak directly to a representative from the bernie sanders campaign. stay with us.

why should people from flint trust that more government is the answer? >> that's a good point, anderson. i suppose they could trust the corporations who have destroyed flint by a disastrous trade policy, which have allowed them to shut down plants in flint and move to china and mexico. we could trust them. >> we're back with our special post-debate coverage. david joins us from washington, and here in new york. a lot of people in the spin room, we'll jump right back into the spin room right now. we have joy reid covering stuff for us tonight as well as simone sanders from the bernie sanders

campaign. simone, first question to you. what do you think bernie sanders achieved tonight? >> tonight i think senator sanders achieved vigorous debate. i think he definitely made the case to the people of flint, to the people of michigan, the american people for that matter, that he is the only candidate on that stage that is poised to take on this rigged economy. he talked vigorously, and comfortably about the fact that these trade policies from nafta, from the trade relations with china, all the way up to the transpacific partnership have literally devastated communities such as flint, detroit, communities in ohio and illinois. i think we made that case. he made the case that he's always stood on the side of the american worker. secretary clinton is new to this side of the debate. he also submitted that he is steadfast in his want, his need to see real changes and real effective policies here for the people in flint for the

situations they're dealing with. >> you know, ari, if i could throw a question to simone. on the detroit bailout, that was one of the most intensive exchanges in the debate. are you concerned with the vote coming up here on tuesday, that in the state where the bailout meant the most to the citizens, that that might be a problem for senator sanders, his lack of support in not voting for the -- >> no, not at all. senator sanders voted. he supported the auto bailout. what he didn't support is bailing out wall street. he's on record supporting in 2008. he was very supportive. he voted, we sent out a release about this during the debate. he's always stood on the side of the american worker. he did multiple interviews during the time he expressed and cemented his support of the auto industries and good-paying manufacturing jobs. what he did not support and not support today is bailing out wall street. these billionaires and corporate companies who have literally kef stated these companies, we don't support bailing out wall street.

he has always been on the side of the american worker, joy. >> there was an interesting exchange, most in-depth exchange on race in a while. senator sanders had one answer that did ignite controversy. at least on social media in saying that white americans don't understand what it's like to live in the ghetto. is something like that a problem for senator sanders? >> no, joy. clearly senator sanders, he's from burlington, vermont, he knows white ghettos exist. we saw that he was comfortable answering the question. he took a risk and answered the question directly. secretary clinton didn't necessarily answer the question. i think what you saw tonight, what voters saw tonight is senator sanders is very comfortable answering the questions. he's going to take on the hard issues. and he's going to talk about his record. he has a great record to stand on. >> back to you, ari. >> thank you both. appreciate that. david, i want to play for you some of the sharp exchanges that

went down tonight which have been discussed. take a listen. >> your friends destroyed this economy -- >> you know -- >> excuse me, i'm talking. >> if you're going to talk, tell the whole story, senator sanders. >> your friends destroyed this economy -- >> you know -- >> excuse me, i'm talking. >> if you're going to talk, tell the whole story, senator sanders. >> let me tell my story, you tell yours. >> i will. >> i said let the billionaires themselves bail out wall street. it shouldn't be the middle class of this country. wait a minute. can i finish? you'll have your turn. >> that is like -- >> can i finish, please? all right? >> david, does any of that on style points hurt bernie sanders? >> well, i mean, sometimes he looked a little disrespectful in

his passionate advocacy of his own position. but i think what we saw here tonight was that the sanders campaign is saying, even though we're trailing in the delegates, and even the math doesn't look good for us, as a lot of pundits and observers have said, we're not giving up. we're not going to go quietly into the night. we're going to try at least another week or two for the next set of primaries. and really give it to hillary clinton, as much, if not more so than we've done so far at this point. i mean, there's a lot of talk within the democratic circles, there's a point in time when bernie sanders says, okay, even if he wants to go straight to the convention, and go work on the platform, whatever it is, will he throttle back op the attacks on hillary clinton. >> and will he find a way to warm the mood. joan, your thoughts? >> i don't know that it helped him. i think it really did express his desire to make a point

tonight. and knowing that he's had a good weekend in terms of states, but not a great weekend in terms of delegates. but i have to say, as the woman on the panel i'm going to come out and say i didn't perceive it as sexist. i saw on social media some women disagree with me. but i think that's something senator sanders would do to a man when he's in the middle of a point, he wants to make his point. >> an equal opportunity occur moj on is what you're sig there. >> i think so. >> the spin room will be back after this.

when you're on hold, your business is on hold. that's why comcast business doesn't leave you there. when you call, a small business expert will answer you in about 30 seconds. no annoying hold music. just a real person, real fast. whenever you need them. great, that's what i said. so your business can get back to business. sounds like my ride's ready. don't get stuck on hold. reach an expert fast. comcast business. built for business. welcome back to our special post-debate knch here. we are live in new york as well as flint, michigan, where kristen welker is with democratic party chair, debby wasserman schultz. go ahead.

>> thanks, "ri. i want to start off with the issue of flint. both candidates came out tonight and called for the governor to step down, to resign. first time we've heard that from secretary clinton. your reaction, and do you have any concerns that this issue could become overly politicized without really addressing the core issue? the residents still drinking out of water bottles. >> we had the debate at the request of our candidates and our party felt so strongly that we shine a spotlight in flint, not to only help make sure we get the people in flint through the crisis, but broaden it out and talk about the crisis in cities across america with crumbling infrastructure. because the next flint is just around the corner. unfortunately for the people of flint, the governor cared more about saving a buck. now they've poisoned their children. >> let me ask you about the

broughter race. both candidates had unity on one other issue, which is the general election, asked about taking on potential republican nominee donald trump if he does in fact win. your thoughts about that? and to what extent are you girding for a possible trump nomination? >> well, at the dnc we're getting ready while our primary is going on for the general election. that's really important that when our primary is over, we will be ready to launch or nominee in philadelphia. >> when you look at the numbers, do you think it's going to be trump? >> it certainly looks that way. the republicans are getting the nominee they deserve. they're headed in that direction because they have played to the extreme right-wing gutteral base of their party. you can see that they can't even have a substantive debate like ours have been. they have a base that's much more interested in cheering on insults hurled at one another rather than talking about the problems we need to continue to tackle. >> i'm getting a wrap, so quickly. this race is going to be prolonged.

do you worry whoever the democratic nominee is could be damaged because this race is going to be a long one? >> no, we have a more divisive campaign in the primary in 2008. and we came back together and elected barack obama. and i'm confident this is a less divisive election. >> thank you. we appreciate it. ari, i'll toss it back to you. >> thank you, both. we go to the mayor of flint, also in the spin room. you've endorsed, of course, hillary clinton. we can get to the politics in a moment, but i want to start with you on the policy on your city and what it's been through. what was important in your view about tonight's debate discussion of what's happened to flint, what needs to happen? >> you know, what was really important was they really stayed on the issue of flint. and gave flint the recognition that we deserve to have. because we're in a crisis here in the city of flint. and we need this national attention. flint has ended up in this

situation because we haven't had a voice. and nobody had heard what was going on here for the longest. and so have it elevated to this level was wonderful. it was also good to talk about some long-term solutions. and what could be possible for flint. because we can't continue to live off bottled water and filters. so it was really important for us to hear. what's planned for flint long-term. in addition to the water crisis, it's impacted us in a host of other ways. our property taxes have gone down. our neighborhoods have been neglected. people are leaving. our economy has been hit hard. and we've got a host of things going on. and so one of the things that was really nice was it was more than just talk. one of the things that happened earlier today, i don't know if people caught it during the debate, but one of the things that happened even earlier today was hillary clinton helped us as far as jump-starting a program

called flint water works. we're looking at the unemployment level. we had national guard in the city of flint. they were getting paid $2 million to distribute water. when we have a suffering economy, that's something we should be part of the solution. that money should be going to residents of the city of flint. it's more than distributing water, it's distributing the healthy foods that our families need as a result of being exposed to this lead. it's also teaching them some skills. >> let me jump in, mayor. just because i want to play a little bit from the debate. i appreciate your point about the water program. bernie sanders is talking about larger environmental issues. >> no, i do not support fracking. >> senator sanders, though -- [ applause ] >> to secretary clinton's point, there are a number of democratic governors in many states who say that fracking can be done safely, and that it's helping their economies. are they wrong? >> yes. i have talked to scientists all over the world. and what they are telling me, if

we don't get our act together, this planet could be five to ten degrees warmer by the end of this century. cataclysmic problems for this planet. this is a national crisis. and i talked to scientists who are telling me that fracking is doing terrible things to water systems all over this country. we have got to be bold now. we've got to transform our energy system to energy efficiency and sustainable energy. we've got to do it yesterday. >> so my last question to you is someone who has endorsed hillary clinton and is working on these issues, when you see bernie sanders who echoed some of her points, do you feel if he were the nominee or president, that flint would not be as well off as under a clinton administration? >> yes, i do feel that way. one of the reasons i feel that way is because i know hillary clinton has always been a voice for those that haven't had a voice. the other thing is, hillary clinton, as soon as we declare this emergency for the city of flint, she immediately got in

touch with us. she started sending people at a very high level to flint. they've been coming on a weekly basis. she has been here several times and reached out. so she's done more than just talking. she's put some action behind her talk. like i said, she helped launch this flint water works program. we have been asking for this and asking for this. and it seemed like it had been falling on deaf ears. she said, you know, this really makes sense and got someone to donate to the city of flint. and get this program started. so yes, because we need more than just talk, we need some action. and that's one of the things that she showed us. >> mayor, we thank you very much for joining us on what i know is a big night for your town, and a big night in michigan. we appreciate it. we turn to mark in the spin room. an actor, and bernie sanders endorser. good evening to you. your thoughts on the debate. >> good evening. >> good evening. your thoughts on the debate, mark, and what stood out to you on bernie sanders especially on the issue of the environment? of course, which is something you've worked on a lot. the mayor of flint just said she

thinks secretary clinton would be better on these issues for flint. >> i thought it was a great night for the democratic party. i was very proud to be a democrat tonight. and i think that bernie sanders had a particularly great night tonight. he was charming, he was direct, he felt fresh in his answers. he was very honest with his answers. and i just felt a lot of heart from him. as far as the mayor goes, she's endorsed senator clinton, and i can't take that away from her. but i do think that the nation that bernie sanders is talking about, is one where we don't have to have a flint happening. we don't have to have these kinds of issues where our water's being poisoned, where our epa becomes a political sort of tool, or our deq becomes a

political tool. he's talking about a more accountable nation. and he's talking about our priorities. right now, piecemeal, why do we have to fight for one city over the next. why can't we look at all cities the same. what's happening in flint is happening in many places. it's happening in new york and california. our water is being contaminated. it's because we're not taking care of our resources and our people. it's an altitude that our federal government and state government has towards its people. and it's the attitude that for some reason money is worth more than people are. and because of that, we're having poison. our school systems are trashed. our federal court systems are trashed. our judicial system is trashed. young people are dying in the streets for no reason.

and that's an attitude that we have towards our people about who they are, and what their value is to us. and what bernie sanders is talking about is a revolution of spirit, a revolution of priorities. >> mark, let me jump in and play a little more from bernie tonight and get your thoughts. here he is on the issue of flint. take a listen. >> children in america should not be poisoned. federal government comes in, federal government acts. people are not paying a water bill for poisoned water. [ applause ] and that is retroactive. cdc has got to come in here and examine every child and adult in this community in terms of the amount of lead they may have. >> that was a big applause line for him. you see the passion in him. i want to ask you as an actor about a fellow performer, if you will, a guy by the name of

donald trump. you heard tonight bernie sanders say he is actually best positioned, cited some polling than hillary clinton in michigan where you're standing right now. when you looked at this race, did you think, bernie sanders is great for the environment and some of your causes, let's get on this train, but he may not get the nomination, or are you confident he could actually beat donald trump? >> there's no doubt in my mind he could beat donald trump if he goes up against him. he awoke something in me. and it was his ideas, and his decency, and it's his record, frankly. i mean, this guy's exactly who he's always been. he's always been fighting for the little guy. and just today, that just happens to be the very person we need. there's an authenticity about him, and about his history and about his career as a politician, that speaks to me.

now, i'm a good read of people, all right? that's kind of what i do for a living. this guy is real. who he says he is, he is. and you put him against trump any day of the week and he will mop the floor with him. any rich kid in new york is always running away from a brooklyn kid. >> that may be the race we ultimately have. we'll have to see, mark. thank you for joining us from the spin room. back here, donald trump is hanging over these proceedings. this was a substantive debate. in many ways it was different than what we saw from the republicans. when it arose, we heard folks say on the stage, we're better than republicans, but ultimately who can handle trump. >> as you said, donald trump was hanging over this debate. yet he wasn't. the first 20 minutes was focused solely on the problems in flint, michigan. in fact, the majority of african-american population, 40% living under poverty. and children who have been poisoned by the highest elected

officials in the state. that was the focus, not donald trump. until later. that was refreshing. frankly, they both have a point. they both probably, it depends on a lot of factors, right, what's the enthusiasm for democratic voters either for secretary clinton or senator sanders. it looks like they both can beat donald trump right now. it's a long time to november. we've been wrong -- >> right. but the data is starting to come in. one of the arguments that has democrats nervous, right now, the turnout is low. >> it doesn't have me nervous, though. we had so many candidates in 2008. we have these two amazing candidates, first woman, first african-american, there was a level of excitement that we haven't seen before. right now, hillary clinton, i think it matters the point that she made. that she has -- i think 4.2 million votes and donald trump has 3.5. we talk like he's a huge threat.

she's not popular, there's no enthusiasm for her. so i'm not worried about turnout. the more i talk to democrats out there, they're not worried either. >> david, go ahead. >> donald trump will be the best thing for democratic turnout. should he become the nominee. and if it's ted cruz, that will be the second best thing for democratic turnout. really, right now, i think there's a two-person race in a lot of the states. people think hillary may be ahead. her voters may not be as enquajed as the bernie sanders voters. that's not the type of campaign hillary clinton is running. so i think any talk about turnout now is completely irrelevant compared to what we're going to see after the conventions in july. so donald trump, you know, get the nomination, and you will solve the democratic turnout problem, if it does exist. >> briefly, there's an aura of reality. many don't think trump will win the nomination.

>> i actually think ted cruz would do more for turnout. i've never heard a progressive anywhere or democrats say we're really scared of ted cruz. either of them i think would be good for democratic turnout. >> we have a lot more live from michigan when we come back live, all through next hour. stay with us for our special coverage on the post-democratic debate.

what is happening in flint to a lesser degree is happening throughout this country. in recent years we have seen a proliferation of millionaires and billionaires, and increase in income and wealth and inequality all over this country. middle class families are struggling. take care of the people. no mar tax breaks for billionaires. i will trust the people to create a government