today he has not done much. that makes him the winner of the day. >> ted cruz won the day. i'll tell you tomorrow. coming up, "hardball" with chris matthews. trump thumps, but bernie stuns. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews, in washington. bernie sanders pulls an upset in michigan. can he repeat the big ten magic in ohio. can he carry the fight to california. can anything stop trump, after he has bulled his way through michigan and mississippi. do or time for anti-trump. new york billionaire had three big wins. polls show him on the he were verge of another big win in

florida. last night, trump mocked the effort to try to stop him. >> of the four, they're pretty much all gone, okay. pretty much. they didn't do so well tonight, folks. i'm not going to say anybody didn't do well. they didn't do well. only one person did well tonight, donald trump, i'll tell you. lying ted, i call him lying ted, he holds the bible high, he puts it down and then he lies. he'll say i'm the one that beat donald trump. i said it before. i beat him. i beat him. but he doesn't say yeah, he won like four, and i won like 12 or 13, right. he forgets the other part. >> any way, i think he under -- he is now 15. marco rubio campaign has been reduced to one state, last strategy. florida. hoping to avoid humiliating defeat down there. two of his senate backers down there said today if rubio can't win his home state, it would be time for rubio to drop out.

right now, rubio's chances in florida aren't looking too good. three recent polls, including one today, trump leads rubio, look at this, in the cnn orc poll, quinnipiac poll, i think that's out today, he leads him by 23 points in his home ground. in a brand new fox news poll out tonight, trump has a 23 point lead over rubio. the favorite son, if you will. i'm being sarcastic. in ohio, however, trump is now in second. the new fox poll shows john kasich leading trump by five points, in his home state. meanwhile, nbc has learned jeb bush plans to meet with every candidate left in the field, but not trump. oh, boy, the establishment is fighting back. kathleen parker, syndicated c e columnist, henry barker, republican strategist, the republican strategist, and supporter of marco rubio.

henry, i'm going to start with you. please tell me the rubio strategy, he has double, double digit back in his home state. he keeps saying it's like the alamo. it bent twent the wrong way too. your thoughts. >> i think marco rubio is going to win florida. one of the reasons is donald trump -- >> you would say that because you're for him whachlt do. what does it mean when he is losing by 20 points. >> okay, well, i think that donald trump has got about two-thirds republicans wanting to vote against him, so marco rubio is the vehicle in florida, just as john kasich is in ohio, if you want to stop donald trump. just as ted cruz was in mississippi last night. and i think marco rubio got a big debate coming up tomorrow night in miami on his home turf. he has got the positive. he is going to have to have the positive vibes going again that he had earlier in the campaign,

where he looks like the visionary that he is. and he has got to get back to that. >> why did he start talking about -- okay. i agree with you. he doesn't have a prayer if he keeps talking about donald trump's small hands and all this ridiculous stuff he has been saying on national television. i think that redicuced him belo trump. your thoughts? >> well, there is no question, he needs to talk about his record. if he wants to talk about donald trump, let's talk about donald trump's record, his lack of plans, trump university, where donald trump likes to say he tells it like it is, the new york attorney general says that's a bait and switch. a scam. it's slowing down. >> no, it's not actually slowing down. sir, sir, it didn't -- it is not slowing down. you could wish a new existence. he won in michigan and mississippi, overwhelmingly. what do you mean by slowing down.

he won hawaii last night. >> sure, i'll grant you that, he had a good night last night. over the weekend, he certainly looked like he might be stalling. last night, he looked like he had his jet engines going. he has to get the 60% of the delegates. he needs 788 additional delegates to get to the magic 1,237 number to have a majority in cleveland. that's a high hurdle for him. the way he has to do it is winning these big states, these winner take all states like ohio, like florida, so it's going to be a real battle in florida, but i think marco on his home turf has a good opportunity. >> so far, he has only one minnesota and puerto rico. that's not a great foundation for a national across the board effort here. kathleen, what is -- >> i don't see how -- >> trump winning this thing now. >> i do too, frankly. i say that with no pleasure. but look, marco rubio did diminish himself when he went off on these little, you know,

bullying tactics that trump used. while it might have worked for somebody, it didn't work for him. the last thing he needed was to look like the high school punk. he already looks so young. that's something he has to fight. he let his shadow grow a little bit to look a little older. but for right now, it hurt him. he is acting goofy. >> trump said his ears were too big. he said his hands were too small. it got out of hand. >> i'm embarrassed for our country. >> i am too. i got over it faster. numbers drive our politics. hillary clinton didn't win the most delegates, barack obama did. she won a lot of big states, he didn't, but she won. delegates, i just don't see rubio getting in the game again. >> no, and i think the most striking thing about most of the polls that you see out right now is the fact that if you had one-on-one matchups between rubio and/or cruz and trump, or even kasich and trump, all of

the one-on-one polls show the other candidates beating trump. the fact that there are three is what is helping trump. you talk about dysfunction on trump's side, it is really the establishment dysfunction that can fought unite behind a single candidate that is essentially leading to this problem and leading them to a trump nomination. when you have that, if you have have that, if they cannot unify behind donald trump, its a going to be like humpty-dumpty. >> you think when it comes down to trump, versus say cruz, if it does come down, people are going to like cruz more? i used to take that position, trump got mad at me for saying that, unite around rubio, you know, i think rubio would be the logical one. trump made fun of that. what makes you think they're going to unite around anybody. what makes you think they're going to like the looks of ted cruz any more when the spotlight is on him? i don't think they're going to like the looks of the guy when they have to look at him and choose him for president. ted cruz. >> he is definitely not the most

likeable of candidates, i have to say that. but in this sense, i mean, there is evidence for it. if you look at the polls, one-on-one, head to head, bunch of polling national and state by state, they do candidates state by state, each one of those candidates, if you consolidate the vote actually do beat donald trump. so there is evidence of that. >> how about in -- >> if you consolidate the vote. >> henry, the exit polls we took last night in mississippi, fascinating. the voters down there said they would be satisfied with cruz or trump in the range of 60, 62%. they said they would be satisfied with rubio at the level of 38%. i mean, what do you make of that? the fact that when they look at all three candidates in mississippi, the state you're from i believe, he doesn't make it? >> yes. >> rubio doesn't make it. >> well, it is just the dynamics at the time, and look, campaigns have ups and downs. ronald reagan in 1976 was left for dead, and we lost six

primaries in a row, but he came back and won texas, three of the last four, and went to the '76 convention in a virtual tie with ford. so look, we've got to rebound. we've got to have a big night at the debate. we're on our home turf. rubio has to be positive. show people that he is the conservative who could unite the party. and remember, chris, marco rubio is our strongest candidate in the fall. i think he has got to remind people of why he is the strongest one. and he just has to get back to his bread and butter. >> let me tell you about 1976. the reason ronald reagan made a come back because he went to north carolina and the pan tham canal issue. he doesn't have a jesse helms. >> obviously, rubio is counting on florida. kasich wanted to wait it out until he could go through ohio. i think he probably will take ohio. but marco rubio cannot, i mean,

he can restate all of his positions over and over again, but he has already, you know, he has already, i don't know, i don't want to say he has already lost it, but the fact is, he was -- >> can i say something? >> yeah, say something. >> you do well, the pages of the newspaper, you right the great column. that's where rubio exists. he doesn't exist among the american people. the neo kinds love him because they think he is the soldier boy, he is pushing for war all the time. the average person has no interest in marco rubio. >> i think that's probably right. many people on in the establishment, who want to go ahead and drop out, should have done it. he should have done it before florida, because if he loses, his political career is pretty much over. >> what do you smell down there on the ground? >> well, we're here at the democratic debate site, so we're waiting for hillary clinton and bernie sanders to have tonight. they've agreed to three more, but they haven't nailed down any dates. we'll see if they have any more

after this. it's not in hillary's interest to have any more. in terms of the republican field, donald trump is here in the state, like rallying people in the last couple of days, marco rubio who is living down here, trying frantically to get back a lot of his votes that elected him to the senate, but it's definitely feeling like there is a group of protesters out here in front of the hillary and bernie debate, and they're all trump protesters, you don't see any -- >> pro trump. >> pro trump, yeah. >> in the press conference last night, featuring by the way, ten flags last night, ten american flags, that's up from six the previous time, this guy is getting more and more presidential or napoleonic. >> as a republican that our senators and that our congressmen get reelected. we have some terrific people. not all of them are on my side.

i want to thank paul ryan. he called me a couple of days ago. he could not have been nicer. he was very encouraging, and i have great respect for paul ryan. great respect. i say let's come together, folks, we're going to win. i say let's come together. believe it or not, i am a unifier. i unify. i mean, you look at all of the things i built all over the world, i'm a unifier. i get along with people. >> i love the less educated people. he says anything. any way, meanwhile, this morning, donald trump taunted rubio about the consequences of losing his home state. but he also didn't rule out the possibility of putting him on his ticket as vp. let's watch. >> i believe with all my heart that the winner of the florida primary next tuesday will be the nominee of the republican party. >> morning joe this morning. >> wow, i guess that wasn't it. >> let's go back one more time to henry. you have to explain this guy one more time. how is he going to offset a deficit in florida and save his

skin. >> well, look, we're going to have a big turnout i don't believe it's a 20 point deficit. the race really is about a ten point race or less. they do, most people believe that i'm talking to today down in florida, that rubio is going to out perform on election day. they do believe it's going to be a record turnout, like 2.3 million, 1.95 million is the record so far. so a lot of new voters coming in, and but one point i wanted to make, chris, is last night, donald trump said they're saying horrible things about me. well, mr. trump, they're just talking about your record. and that's his problem. i'm hopeful, i'm hopeful that's going to come to a head down in florida. >> henry, thanks for joining us. let's go to his victory speech. >> i think if he runs and loses and you know, i don't think he would written right now, but if he runs and loses, i think he will never be able to do anything very big politically in

florida. i certainly don't think he would be considered by anybody as a vice-president. >> if he drops out before losing florida, will you consider him, could he possibly be on the list as a vice-president of yours, because he could help outreach the hispanics and help your outreach to the establishment. >> sure, sure, he has a lot of talent. i don't want to say that yet, joe. it's not appropriate to talk about it until he makes a decision. >> okay, interpret that. he is through if he loses, beat him like a drum. that's what he says. then he says after joe pushed him on mika, he said well, i might put him on the ticket. what does that mean? >> well, i mean, i they he doesn't want to offend latinos any more than he already has. he is making this trek back to the center, to the establishm t trying to mend faces soften his making nice with paul ryan. he's trying to be more sort of

candidate and more presidential. >> does he get boring? >> boring frankly. >> any way -- >> no, donald trump is a new day for him. you never know what he is going to say or do. you know, one day he is for, next day he is against it. he loves everybody. absolutely awesome. and you know, donald is going to be great friends with the members of the house of representatives and senate, they're trying to figure out how can we get out of the frame with this earn. they're in a bind. >> it must be nice having breakfast with the guy in the morning. you don't know who he is going to be. it's always new. >> thank you. henry, you're soldier. a soldier. any way, coming up, donald trump is holding a rally right now in north carolina. he is in good shape in the republican race, as we've said. new poll numbers that show is he not the strongest candidate against hillary or bernie sanders. these are numbers you may question, but they are the actual nbc numbers. nbc has a good track record.

democrats, bernie sanders won a stunning upset in michigan. that gives him the moe, a like state, even though though don't like each other in football. next tuesday. hillary clinton is the favorite in florida, she like the populous in rust belt states. that seems to be a problem for her. if she is the nominee for the general. the boston globe who helped expose the coverup in the catholic church, story behind the brilliant movie, "spotlight." finally, let me finish with this battle. i mean it. in the democratic party, it is so different than the republican battle. this is "hardball," the place for politics. let's talk asset allocation. sure. you seem knowledgeable, professional. would you trust me as your financial advisor? i would. i would indeed. well, let's be clear here. i'm actually a dj. [ dance music plays ] [laughs] no way! i have no financial experience at all.

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i just want to take this opportunity to thank the people of michigan, who kind of

reputated the polls that had us 20, 25 points out a few days ago. the political revolution we're talking about is strong in every part of the country. and frankly, we believe that our strongest areas are yet to happen. >> welcome back to "hardball." after trailing hillary clinton by over 20 points in the polls out there, bernie sanders pulled a big upset, a huge stunning upset in michigan in the primary, taking the state by a couple of points, 50/48. glenn thrush, says he is not only alive, but dangerous, interesting. and the statistics website called it one of the greatest upsets in modern political history. it was offset by her bin win in mississippi, by 66 points. that was the difference in mississippi. but michigan raises questions about secretary clinton's appeal

in the rust belt, an in a state known for its blue collar workers, reagan democrats from the '80s, sanders did especially well without a college degree, beating clinton by 15 points. 57-42. the excitement over the victory was on full display, they had a giant puppet of the candidate behind my set. they came in like that. by the way, afterwards, so everybody feels good about that, we invited them to put on the demonstration there. i got a note from the people who put it in there. it was written on a napkin. it says thank you for inviting ugs in. we appreciate your willingness to hear what we had to say. it was addressed to me and msnbc. i'm joined by phillip levine. mr. mayor, thanks for joining us. tell us about florida and it's

an amazing state. recount, one of the good things with the recount, we figured our diverse your state is. it's sort of like new york, panhandle more like georgia, southerns, new yorkers, every accent, ethnic group. what is it in terms of sanders versus clinton? >> i could tell you something, chris. florida is representing what america is today, with the hispanic community shall african-american community, it's the united nations here. you can imagine tremendous enthusiasm for secretary clinton because there a lot of trust. we know senator sanders is espousing a socialist revolution and i'm not sure the people of south florida are looking for a socialist revolution. as you know, a lot of them have gone through it in. so we kind of know what that's about. it may not resonate so well. >> you sound like churchill

fighting atly back in 1945. are you saying it he brings in government control. that's you're saying. explain. >> i would think so. no question about it. >> you're arguing -- he could say he could have just as much freedom as we have now, if gets more socialist. you say no, it's dangerous. >> i'm not so sure a lot of people living in the highly socialist countries are dying to live in those countries or moving there. clearly, they're moving to florida, they're all coming here. when you talk about the socialist democrats in europe, you're going to find not a lot of growth, employment opportunities. they're all moving to florida right now. >> what do you think of the appeal of bernie when he says i'm going give you florida state, university of florida, free tuition? quite an offer. >> you know what think, of course, they offer everything free. he is offering free education, we know he is offering free

health care, no plan how you're going to play for it. you want to destroy wall street, free uber, free starbucks, free netflix as well. >> you're kidding. >> you could offer anything you want, but you have to be a realist about this. what secretary clinton's plan is about bringing jobs and opportunity. >> okay, let me ask you, did you go to michigan? where did you go to college? >> university of michigan, go blue. >> i thought you did. what a great school. it's a national school. one of the best. what do you think, the last word, michigan and florida, where michigan, senator sanders nipped them, won the election, what stoms hps him from doing t same in florida? >> it's very different. florida is very international. people believe in free trade, but at the same time, wants to make sure that we protect workers, we protect companies and we have a plan for more exports. can't just close yourself off.

they've seen jobs go overseas, maybe the floridians haven't seen that as much. we need to fix the ills. >> let me go to steve mcman. who are you with. >> i'm with nobody. >> let's call it a democratic. you're democratic. unhyphenated. >> unhyphenated. >> he took a shot at bernie's socialism. denmark, socialist, no threat there, he identifies with the worst kind. >> right. frankly, i mean, it's a little bit of a, you know, it's a red herring, because nothing bernie is talking about this sorts of progressive agenda of many democrats, outside the progressive agenda of half the democratic party right now, because that's about what is he is getting. >> how do you give free tuition to the big state schools without controlling the spending, controlling the schools? you can't give them the same amount. >> the same way you do high schools and grade schools and states across the country today. you expand it for four more

years. >> no, if you pay the university of michigan how much they charge for tuition, the government writes the check, right? how do you control that? university of new hampshire, we want the same amount you're spending at berkeley. the federal government says the schools not the same. who decides that? >> or maybe they're block grants to the state. maybe michigan based on -- >> bernie is offering free tuition. it's a question. >> i honestly don't know. it's not a big a problem or challenge as some people would make it out to be. >> it will be fascinating when they decide that school is not as good as that school, you can't build that student center. the government does that, it will be interesting. fair enough debate. thank you. i love arguing with you. the mayor of miami, we haven't him before, steve mcmahon, we've had him before. donald trump may be riding high, but new polling shows he is

hardly the best to run against hillary clinton. these polls amaze me. i'm not sure i agree with them. overwhelming advantage for bernie sanders, and hillary clinton having a tougher time. i don't know if that's counter intuitive. but it is to me. this is "hardball," the place for politics. let me introduce you to our broker. how much does he charge? i don't know. okay. uh, do you get your fees back if you're not happy? (dad laughs) wow, you're laughing. that's not the way the world works. well, the world's changing. are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management, at charles schwab. you're an at&t small business expert? sure am. my staff could use your help staying in touch with customers. at&t can help you stay connected. am i seeing double? no ma'am. our at&t 'buy one get one free' makes it easier for your staff to send appointment reminders to your customers... ...and share promotions on social media?

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welcome back to "hardball." donald trump is coming off a night of big wins in michigan, mississippi and that thhawaii, % have a negative view. all voters, not just republicans. in fayetteville, north carolina, the rally has been interrupted several times by protesters. look ago head to the possible

general election matchup, hillary clinton beats trump 51-38. write it down. hillary over trump. the outsiders, sanders versus trump. 56 beats trump at 37. joining me right now, the "hardball" round table. political analyst, april ryan, covers the white house for radio networks and john stanton with buzzfeed. i'm going to throw this out. how do you react to the poll? does it sit with you that hillary is so much weaker up against trump come november, pro jel projecting it out? >> until bernie goes through, i'll call him senator sanders, goes through a negative campaign of hundreds of millions spent against him, calling him a socialist. >> you just heard the mayor of miami. >> who a democratic, right. >> until he goes through that, he is not on equal ground with hillary, who has had 20 years of

negative ads against her. >> so she is taking the worst. >> there is probably perfect knowledge on the populous of what people think of hillary. >> a perfect opinion. >> and not yet on bernie sanders, so i think it's not apples to apples, not a fair comparison, although he does do well, as she does, against trump. it's more reflection on how poorly people think of donald trump. >> he is a virgin forest in terms of chopping at him, keep the metaphors straight to nail bernie more than hillary, since she has been hit so hard. >> i talked to the republican party leader ace couple of weeks ago and they are again, expecting hillary, hoping for bernie. but either way, either one could chop down -- >> so they don't believe the poll. >> no, no, no, they don't. i was in the intersanctum.

they know they'll beat their expected nominee. >> sometimes politicians are wrong, john. >> right. >> i've been through a lot of campaigns, we've got to get orrin hatch, i mean reagan will be easy. >> this is the same thing people were saying last summer, about trump. they're saying this fall about trump, they were saying it two weeks about trump. he defies all of this. anybody that looks at these polls and said this is a predictor of what's going to happen is playing with fire. >> superman. >> i mean, this stage in time, if you talk to the democratic strategists, they've been conducting focus groups and they're blown away by the reaction of women to donald trump. >> what is the reaction. >> visceral. >> negative. >> very negative. he is the abusive boyfriend i left type negative. >> oh, my. >> and so they think that's insurmountable. now there are things on hillary

too that the other side will say maybe insurmountable for her, but like hillary. >> could he be the perfect opponent for a women, because hill v hillary is a woman, could she build the case for voting among her agenda, say, you know, it's not just about me being the first woman, we have to beat that guy. >> the problem is for donald trump, he's going to slip up like he did with -- >> we have a been waiting for that. >> he did with megyn kelly. he did it with rosie o'donnell. >> who won the fights. >> i'm not going to say he did. we as a society have allowed this thing to happen. i believe. >> we're all guilty. >> we're all guilty. >> no we're not. >> yes, we are. >> a lot of people rooted for megyn kelly rooted for her in that fight. >> she did a wonderful job. >> the mob never starts off the mob. they're people, if you asked them before they became part of the mob, i would never become that, never be a person that burns somebody's house done, but when this is a guy that speaks

to the fear they have, people, regular people, your neighbors, family, friends, they become the mob and start -- >> how does that work? >> cult of personality. thing been going on with humans for a long time. he is playing -- >> is he not charming, though. >> he puts his foot in his mouth all the time. we've not found the kryptonite. we always scream, but he continues to rise higher and higher. >> any time he fights with anybody, he gets bigger. vicente fox. >> who said. >> the pope, pretty classy guy, everybody likes him, he sort of won that fight, trump. >> not necessarily. >> he made him into this. makes rubio into this. >> the fight against jeb bush was different. he has the albatross around his neck, they wanted to distance themselves from w and the fact of the name bush. he is a dynasty. >> i told you, one guy who beat donald trump, who is it.

>> i'm waiting. >> barack obama. may 2011, at the white house correspondents, we were all there. >> we were there. >> this is -- >> but trump didn't have the stage. >> they need to -- >> he came right after that, decided not to run for president. >> he beat him on beg being dismissive and how to get at him. hillary clinton, i think is going to have a lot that on her side, because -- >> tail winds. >> tail winds, because americans aren't going to buy his sthick. they'll be roused by the passion. other people will say no way. they may even hold their nose to vote for hillary clinton against donald trump. >> i'm going to ask all three. nothing about partisan ship. who is the strongest candidate to go against trump. >> probably hillary. >> april? you don't have to say who you're for. >> i think both of them actually are. he is weak. >> what is the matter with you? >> both of them okay.

>> who the strongest. >> okay, hillary. >> okay, thank you. you can talk -- >> i'm just saying. >> what about you? >> i would say hillary over bernie 53 to 47. >> you want to do one of those things? >> no, i'm not going there. you got enough out of me. >> surprise endorsement today, i'm not sure what this is worth. car carl fiorina, anybody but trump. >> you know there are other people in our party who are actually kind of horrified by donald trump. i'm one of them. but here's the thing. we're not going to beat donald trump by having leaders in our part tisk tisk over our voters. we're going to have to beat donald trump at the ballot box. and the only guy who can beat donald trump is ted cruz. >> what do you think that's worth, april?

>> you have to consider the source. >> there is a clever answer. >> yeah. >> $4 will get you a latte at starbucks. >> the anger, they don't come back and hug him. >> he attacked a woman personally. >> on looks. >> on looks, publicly. not the fact. >> that's one he lost. >> that fight, yes, she has a bad record, she ran hb down the hole. she pushed it down the hole. >> their best line, don't you think every woman in america knows what he meant? whenever you generalize, you don't get back in the fight match with him. any way, the round table will stick with me long enough so they come back and tell me something i don't know. tomorrow, tune in at 7:00 and 11:00 eastern, pre and post game coverage, rub out rubio, you're watching "hardball," a place for

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i'm milissa rehberger, here is what happening severe flooding in parts of louisiana, where the national guard has been called in to help. an early morning gas explosion left nine firefighters injured and 36 businesses damaged. paying respects to nancy reagan, whose body is lying in repose in simi, california. she'll be laid to rest on friday. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." david, my friend, tell me something i don't know. >> last night, donald trump and his victory speech said he would be more presidential than any

president except perhaps abe lincoln. mother jones today, we found some video of him roasting joan rivers, and it is full of gross jokes about joan rivers' body parts. i can't say it here. >> almost as gross as joan rivers. >> certainly not presidential, and nothing abe lincoln would have done. >> i wish i hadn't heard it. >> at the briefing today, i asked josh earnest about the supreme court justice vacancy, and he said that progress is being made. what is the definition of progress? the definition means from a senior administration official, the fact that the president has put the nominees, given them to both sides of the senate leaders to see and view. he has also. >> he has given the names, possible names. >> yeah, possible names on both sides. he has also reviewed the information himself, as well as talking amongst the senior

staff. so progress has been naid. >> how narrow is the list, how short. >> they will not tell us. we're hearing it's less than ten. >> do you think it's a smart move to accept the nomination? you get vetted but probably never confirmed. >> loretta lynch said i'm not going to go through this mess again. >> you're target. >> she pulled out yesterday. >> targeted. >> bullseye. >> the long list, when the president calls you, it's hard to say no. >> john. >> utah tomorrow, they may be voting to ban their death penalty. >> where is the church on that? >> the church has stayed out of it. it has given the lawmakers in the state the freedom to figure it out on their own. sub committee voted on it. the second church, second state that has done this now after nebraska last year. it's much -- surprising to us, because it's happening in red states. >> something about that makes me happy, states actually vote on that, especially when they vote

to end it. >> yeah. >> any way, spent a lot of time in utah, that's where i started, working for the last liberal senator. that's where i started. thank you to my round table. we don't have a time pressure tonight. david corn, my friend, we argue in the dressing rumoom, where wn more. what my favorite movie, "spotlight," inspiration to journalists, and non-juournaliss alike. this is "hardball," the place for politics. know your financial plan

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anti-flu? go antiviral with tamiflu. why are we hesitating. he told us to get law. this is the law. >> he told us to get the system. we need the full scope. that's the only thing that will put an end to this. >> let's take it up to ben and let him decide. >> we'll take it to ben when i say it's time. >> it's time, robby. it's time. they my aknew and they let it happen, okay, two kids. it could have been you, it could have been me, any of us. we have to nail these [ bleeping ], we to show people

nobody could get away, not a priest or cardinal or freaking pope. we're back. that was a scene from team of globe" investigative reporters exposed the widespread sexual abuse of children by catholic priests in the boston archdiocese and the decades-long cover-up by the church hierar y hierarchy. the church takes us behind the scenes to the newsroom where journalists and editors uncovered a systemic pattern of abuse and carefully navigated around the city of boston's sensitivities. the film which took home the academy award for best picture at the oscars stars an ensemble cast of actors, including mark ruffalo. we're join now for our 7 days of genius, msnbc and 92nd street partnership which includes a series of conversations with thought leaders in politics,

ini invasi invasiino investigations, science. is that scene real? >> it's a dramatization. it's a credit to my boss at the time, walter robinson who recruited me for the spotlight team though i have a tend tencyo rear up, i say. everything worked out in a spectacular fashion. >> it seems to me, watching this, my dad did it years ago, investigative work is patience, the ability to absorb pain and humiliation and attack, right? it's not about quick moves. >> you're exactly right. a lot of the work is tedious, a lot of it's drudgery, a lot of it is getting doors slammed in your face, a lot of it is accepting humiliation at times, but patience pays off, i think.

>> i love the we you went down in the basement and found in the morgue there, you fuound these directories of catholic priests, they'd explain to be an absent and sick, you figured out a way of how they got transferred when they were abusing children. >> we had the documents in the basement. the strange sounding assignments like sick leave or emergency response, they were, in fact, euphemisms for police who had been accused of abuse and placed on the self. once we understood that, it was a matter of time, a very painful, tedious 3 1/2 weeks to put together a list of suspect priests which proved very, very useful in our investigation. >> what about marty baron? we're looking at him, played by shriver. marty burn at the "washington post" down here. is that his sort of affect, the way, the understatement, beyond belief understatement? >> yeah, that is marty baron, no doubt about it. i think perhaps he's loosened up in the last few years and maybe

since the movie has come out but that was martry ba ry baron's a. none of this would have happened without marty, fresh set of eyes, florida has terrific sunshine laws. it was his fresh set of eyes that was the trigger for this entire investigation and deserves all the credit in the world for it. >> that's a big part of the political culture down there. i worked for the speaker down there years ago. they're very proud of that sunshine thing. that's not a big part of the catholic church, though, is it? >> not at all. the catholic church is a secretive culture, hide behind the 1st amendment which not only protects freedom of speech and freedom of the press but also freedom of religion. it is a secretive institution. that's one of the challenges we face in our investigation is piercing that veil of secrecy. >> okay. you're talking right now to a 20-year-old, 22-year-old kid, woman, male, young adult, tell them why they should become investigative reporters or tell them why they shouldn't because it's a challenge. >> well, i think the reason they

might want to become an investigative reporter is because this is a life with meaning and purpose. this is a life that gives you a chance to make change and make the world a better place. i think it's a way to pursue a very satisfying life. it may not be satisfying financially, but in terms of achievement, in terms of contributing to the betterment of society, it's a wonderful job. >> you've proven that, sir. taunk y thank you so much. i loved seeing you at the academy awards. the real star of that movie. when we return, let me finish with this refreshing political battle going on on the interesting side. it's interesting to watch between senator sanders and former secretary clinton. it's an interesting battle and about policy compared to the other side which is about how big your hands are, how big your ears are. anyway, you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. when you think what does it look like? is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student?

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let me finish tonight with this refreshing political battle in the democratic party. i say refreshing for a number of reasons. most of them by way of comparison. contrast it with what's happening in the faltering republican party, it's exactly what the founders of this country imagined. it's an actual debate over policy. first, picture the gop fight. trump makes fun of rubio for sweating too much, of melting, of being a choke artist. rubio accuses trump of having

small hands, you know what that means, he smirks. he charged him with wetting his pants during a debate. the democrats, policy and well-paid jobs in this country. the question of whether jobs going back to president kennedy have been good for the constituents of the democratic party, the working people, big industrial states like michigan, ohio, illinois and pennsylvania. two democrats also argued throughout the campaign on the issue of war policy with sanders taking on clinton's vote to authorize the 2003 vote with iraq. that, too, has been an important debate. it gets to the all too serious question of how often and where the united states should engage militarily in a world where civil war and religious feuding is not abetted by outside intervention, where america can find it much easier to enter a conflict than -- there's a compelling distinction between the democrats fighting this political season and the republicans. one is embarrassing and the other is really something quite

valuable. one is a test of on-stage macho, the other is a pretty good debate over matters that matter. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. right now stay tuned for a special town hall with marco rubio hosted by chuck todd. they want him to drop out of the race. they want to carry him to victory. >> rubio! rubio! >> through all the insults -- >> we cannot turn over the conservative movement to a con artist. the people of florida can't stand him. he couldn't get lefted dogcatcher. >> all the finger pointing. >> marco supports citizenship for 12 million people here. >> now he's making things up. >> marco rubio is looking to win his home state and proves he defsh deserves to be the nominee. >> a strong national defense is a better way forward