be the democratic nominee, but boy, he revived himself with that win. >> he did, no question. bernie sanders went from dead in the eyes in the media to very much alive. bloomberg politics up right now. until monday, sayonara. coming up, "hardball" with chris matthews. stirring up trouble, let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews, out in los angeles, where i attended the funeral for former first lady, nancy reagan. a personal ceremony up at the reagan library and some of the poignant moments. our good friend ron reagan later this hour. it was great what he had to say. i have to begin with the rising violence and protests at trump rallies. moments away at taking thetage

at university of illinois at chicago. tensions are high and police are bracing for violence. outside, anti-trump protesters is now demonstrating in the streets, and today, there were more disruptions inside a trump rally in st. louis. they tried to control dozens of protesters, a majority of whom were african-american, 28 people were arrested inside the st. louis rally. trump supporters confronted one another, and police made four more arrests, including one protester, who was arrested after trying to break through a barricade. we're watching all of that now on the tape. trump is under increased scrutiny after an african-american man was sucker punched by a trump supporter as the protester was being escorted out of a rally two days ago in north carolina. that supporter, 38-year-old john mcgraw, there he is, with assault and disorder early conduct. this morning, as he picked up the endorsement of formal rival dr. ben carson, he was asked

about his past comment that he would like to punch a protester in the face. >> we have had a couple that were really violent, the particular one, i said i would like to bang him, that was a very, you know, a guy who was swinging, very loud and started swinging at the audience. you know what, the audience swung back. and i thought it was very, very appropriate. he was swinging. he was hitting people. and the audience hit back. and that's what we need. a little bit more of. >> well, susan page, washington bureau chief, political reporter for nbc news. let's take you in order. this story is gaining significance, because of this residence back and for the between events which we'll be covering in the next several minutes probably when things happen there, but also, because trump stays at it. he stays at the language he has been using. susan, he is not pulling back.

>> i've never seen quite this temperature at events for a candidate in the candidate kind of egging it on. i think this is just going to escalate. protesters are going to be drawn to the fact that is a way to protest some of the rhetoric, some of the positions that donald trump has taken and it doesn't -- there is no sign at all trump will back off. the threat is not so much from donald trump, but the supporters of his who take his words perhaps too much to heart. i'm worried somebody will get hurt. >> doesn't this remind you, nixon and agnew, nixon would use the v sign and try to gin it up? >> i think you have to go back to '68? don't you think? >> violence in politicians, usually from the right who love

to gin up the action, get themselves identify, people hate riote rioters, and they sort of become the ones they root for. they root for the ones being protested. >> right, like i get the appeal for trump. he has been saying he is a candidate of the silent majority. he has been saying he is a candidate for all lives matter, not black lives matter. i do think it would be important for him in this case to, like that press conference was pretty unhelpful. it would be helpful for him to say i do not want violence at my rallies. protesters are okay, we're not trying to incite violence. it striking last night when ted cruz, john kasich were asked about the violence, they also were not too unequivocal. they did fought say violence is unacceptable. that's the answer they should have given and they chose not to. >> what your analysis of that?

surrogate friend of donald trump on last night, she said when i'm seeing protests, a lot of them are african-american for civil rights, they make a point of saying don't get disorderly, don't do that stuff. trump doesn't do that. he never cautions people and says don't ruin our reputation. why don't he? >> no, he incites it chris, i've been at the rallies. anybody who has knows that that's exactly what he does. he whips the crowds up into these frenzies where i'm surprised some eruption hasn't happened earlier. >> when did people begin, history shows, politicians like nixon who used to stir the crowds against him, the majority by waiving the v sign, anything that would drive the antiwar people crazy. he would say things like they hate it when i do that, and he would do it? >> right, he not only incites it, but condones it. you have his campaign manager right now who has been witnessed

grabbing the arm of a female reporter, and yanking her away from the rope line, leaving bruises on her arm. the campaign's response is not to say oh we're looking into it, i imagine any ordinary campaign would, but it's to say no, the reporters who saw this are lying. it never happened. and because of trump's c constituen constituency, what he excuses says and does, he could get away with it. >> it's not a career plan. numerous protesters, here we go, interrupt the rally in st. louis. nbc news reporter characterized them as near continuous, causing him to delay his speech, at one point for ten minutes. here is how he reacted throughout the event. >> go home and get a job. go home, get a job. get a job these are the people

that are destroying our country. where are the police? come on, police. let's go. let's go. there has to be some decorum. there has to be some law and order in our country, okay. there has to be some. we have whackos like this going for ten minutes. if you're a little bit rough, you're a little rough, you see the abuse the police were taking back there? they were abused. i mean, the police should be suing them. it shouldn't be the other way around. get them out. watch the same guy try to come back. you see that? . in the old days, they didn't come back. they were taken out. they were gone. >> susan, back to you again. maybe because i think you're the oldest person of the three, not as old as me, but i do remember this. this was nixon. this was agnew, same assaults on the media. maybe agnew, going after the

media, negativism, all that stuff, rallying the crowds, basically calling them bumss, replay of the 60s and '70s. >> worst or less? >> i mean, there wasn't -- it doesn't seem to me, i didn't cover that campaign, but it didn't seem to me there were calls to rough up protesters. >> it's worst? >> full throated language we're hearing from donald trump. this seems to me to be different. you know, i don't think it hurts him with his course of orders. i don't think it hurts him when you look at the florida primary. i think it could be a significant problem for him as he tries to appeal to a general election audience. i think for a lot of americans, they look at this and think protests are protected by the first amendment.

they're part of our political history. candidates have all stripes have protested their rallies. it's part of the task of being a political leader. >> by the way, as we all know, physical assault is not protected. it's a crime. noted, longer history of altercations at trump rallies going back to the earliest days of his campaign. last november, when cameras captured a video of trump supporters in a scuffle with a black lives matter protester, trump suggested he deserved what he got. let's watch. >> the man that was, i don't know, you said roughed up, he was so obnoxious and so loud, maybe he should have been roughed up, because it was absolutely disgusting what he was doing. >> your thoughts on what you're seeing? >> i mean, the comments that trump made today, the bums, the get a job, he doesn't know anything about the protester. they could be college students,

they could have jobs. we're way beyond the place, not the citizens. they're very racially coded terms. he is not subtle about it. these are not dog whistles. really problematic things he is saying. if you go to his rallies, people can tell who they think the protesters are, because most of the supporters are white, most of the protesters are not white. this is dangerous, this racialzation, the divide he is showing here, instead of being a unifying figure, he is playing it up. i'm not sure any other modern candidate, i shouldn't say recent, but many of them don't behave this way. his comments about bums. very problematic. >> today, dr. carson told the trump you see on tv is different. that's his word, than the trump he knows in person.

here he is this morning. >> there are two different donald trumps. the one you see on the stanl and the one who is vecerebral. that's the donald trump you're going to start seeing more and more of. >> there are two donald trumps, the public version, people see that and i don't know exactly what they see, but it seems to have worked over my lifetime. it's probably different i think than the personal donald trump. i think ben would say that. ben said it well today. so perhaps there are two donald trumps. >> so jeremy peters, during the mornings in new york, trump tower, above the gold and escalators and other signs of wealth, is donald trump at breakfast slowing and carefully reading the inside pages of the new york times? is that the imagine you have of him? the reflective -- >> yeah, i know he is, because we'll be on the receiving end of

his complaints if he doesn't like what we've written. also the same guy that calls into the morning shows when he is watching television complaining what he saw on the air. his son-in-law told me something funny. he is happiest at home when he is at home eating meat loaf on his couch. i think with these extroverts like this, outside personalities, always a side to them that is kind of unexpectly shy and quiet. obviously, trump thinks that he has something to gain here by telling people, well, no, i'm not quite as bad as you think i am. i have this brash public persona, ask my wife. that's what he is doing here. >> who is running for president? which of these two guys is running, which would be the president of the united states in the white house? >> yeah, i think we know the

answer to that one, not eating meat loaf. >> susan, is that relevant that the guy has a quiet side? >> sure. >> all kinds of people in the world, it's hard to find someone who is malicious every second of the day. people take a break. they're nice to their dogs perhaps. i don't know. >> nice to his dog. he is nice to his dog. you know, actually, i think it is relevant. there are ways in which donald trump can be kind of a mystery to some of us. he is on his way to getting the republican nomination for the presiden presidency. we know less about him, because he hasn't been running for office, the kind of scrutiny that other people as they move up the ladder. so i think it is relevant. we would like to know more about donald trump, especially if he is going to be a serious contender for the white house. >> when he gets on the line and starts tweeting, is that the

quiet or gragibragging? it's not hard to call the secretary of defense and give him some scary orders. you have instant power. frightening what you have in his hands. p putin is not going to get away with this. the reflective side would be the chief executive, but how do we know. >> the reflective side is not deciding a lot. he is inciting protests, muslim bans, whatever the private side it, more thoughtful and deliberate side, i'm not sure it's a unifying leader of the country. i'm not sure that what he does in private matters, unless he is a more deliberate leader, more

reasonable requests than the things he says in public, but on some level, the president of the united states is judged by how they behave in public, and if your public persona is so big, your private behavior probably doesn't matter much. >> that's when you find out who a person is. >> we know how trump reacts. >> that's the problem, guys, because you want a person counts to ten, thinks until 100, and moves on when it's time to take action. especially the way he is showing himself, as the strong man, taking on the chinese leadership, whoever is president of mexico, whoever is head of canada. he wants to be our war time president. that's pretty scary if he can't control himself. any way, i think it's interesting what dr. carson said. susan page, thank you as always.

jeremy peters. we continue to watch the protesters at the university of illinois in chicago, at chicago. when trump takes the stage, we'll take you there live. coming up on monday, join me for an exclusive town hall in springfield, illinois, with hillary clinton. the big primaries coming up on tuesday. you can watch the town hall with secretary clinton monday night at 7:00 eastern for the full hour right here on "hardball." constant - a financial relationship with someone that understands and cares about your business. pnc corporate and institutional banking offers strategies tailored to your company's needs. know that our dedicated teams of local experts offer insight to help you achieve your business objectives. see how working with pnc can help your company grow at pnc.com/ideas ♪ i've been blind since birth. i go through periods where it's hard to sleep at night, and stay awake during the day.

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native of course, has a commanding lead. more than two-thirds of the vote right now. 67% to bernie sanders' 25%. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ for your retirement, you want to celebrate the little things, because they're big to you. and that is why you invest. the best returns aren't just measured in dollars. td ameritrade®. if you misplace your you can use freeze it to prevent new purchases on your account in seconds. and once you find it, you can switch it right on again.

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welcome back to "hardball," tensions high in chicago where hundreds of protesters in the street right now outside a donald trump rally which is due to begin any minute now. on the democratic side, bernie sanders is hoping to replicate the victory in michigan by pounding her on the trade issue in states like ohio, illinois and north carolina. all hold their primaries next tuesday. manufacturing jobs have been disappearing around the country. many blame nafta for their position. here is his position in ral raleigh, north carolina. >> i helped lead the effort unfortunately unsuccessfully

against nafta and against all the other trade agreements. hillary clinton, hillary clinton on the other hand, supported virtually all of these disaster. >> we saw her with a lead in michigan before he up set here there. she is not taking anything for granted i think. on thursday, she made campaign stops in florida, north carolina, and illinois, where she reminded supporters of her hometown roots. here she is. >> you know, i feel particularly kind of a little emotional. i am a child of chicago, and the

suburbs. i was born in the -- in chicago, i grew up in park ridge. the stakes are high in this election. and everybody needs to come out and vote in the illinois primary. >> joining us right now is "washington post" columnist, and "the daily beast." ruth, it's very hard in military terms to handle a retreat. hillary clinton has been retreating on trade. she admitted her support for nafta in the past and her husband's pore as president. she has to go in a different directions. once you decided what you did was wrong, how do you defend anything against the other side when the guy on the other side, senator sanders said i've always been right about that. she is slow to realize she has been wrong and i've been right. it's hard for her to recover the retreat. >> retreating is never easy, and retreating when you've got a

record on this, as she does, when she called tpp, when it was being negotiated, the gold standard of trade agreements. it's really pretty difficult. and it's so interesting, because she got hammered on this eight years ago from barack obama, except the difference between now and eight years ago was that she was the one who was doing better than he was, barack obama, eight years ago, with those white working class guys. now, bernie sanders has some -- a lot of that energy, as we've seen in the exit polls from other states. >> let me go to mike. how does bill clinton support hillary clinton when he is the one that signed those bills, and as recently as last year, i was in tokyo, he supports t approximate. p. if he has changed, i haven't heard it. >> i haven't heard it either. >> identify with, she has a surrogate, the number one surrogate in the country out there basically with a different position. he is pro trade. >> he could be her surrogate on

a number of things with a number of constituencies and communities, but not on trade and states that they feel they have a been zapped by nafta. argument, county policy argument as you know, exporter firms it helps. that would be the thing she might do is go find some big exporte exporters, but that's a total loser, they're so high, manufacturing jobs lost. >> by the way, as you guys all know, every labor union, whether it's service employees, public employee, anything is with the manufacturing sector on this. they're all against the trade deals. just a matter of unity. bernie sanders has launched new campaign ads. trade in michigan will be a winner in tuesday's primaries. here is part of the ad running in north carolina right now. >> north carolina's furniture and textile industries,

decimated by decades of disastrous trade deals. only one candidate for president has opposed every disastrous deal, bernie sanders. while his opponent has flip flopped, bernie has fought them and stood with american workers. he'll take on wall street and their trade deals. he doesn't take their money. >> in an interview, hillary clinton talked about how she would like to bol ter the nafta deal. here she is. >> i've said repeatedly that i would like to renegotiation it. i think there were parts of it that did not work as hoped for. and that's why i've come forward with some, you know, very strict proposals that if you're trying to move jobs out of america, if you've ever gotten one penny of government aid and lots of places have, you're going to have to pay it all back. >> here is the problem, ruth and michael. in other issues like inflation

or unemployment or even income inequality, jean generally, you have hard time figuring out how the government is going to fix it. when it comes to trade, senate and house, signed by the president, it's u.s. pol is he and it could be changed overnight. if you pick a man or woman of the center left, or real left, democratic socialist, traditionally against trade, i can change the policy just by the way i vote. clear-cut, and that's why it worked in the state where it really matters like michigan. will it work in ohio and to some extent, your view? >> you listen to the sanders ad, and it is so clear-cut, you just say ouch, right. the argument that he is making, it is absolutely clear that these disastrous trade deals, a a lot of economists could disagree with that, and you could get bill clinton to

disagree with that. but it's this kind of clear-cut animating argument that really energizes his followers, and then you listen to hillary clinton, well, i would like to renegotiation small pieces of it. that hurt her in michigan and it's going to be a slog for her on tuesday, i think. >> it's interesting, michael. she knows where the hurt is, because she is not going to florida on this. which is international state as we know. the pan-american state of the whole hemisphere. you go to north carolina, which has relied on furniture production. i went to school down there. you make furniture in north carolina. it matters. >> yeah, and missouri. >> they are very antitrade, missouri. >> yeah, so she has got to change the subject to a certain extent, number one. and number two, she's got to make sure her voters come out and actually vote for her instead of voting in the republican primaries against

donald trump, as apparently happened to some extent at least in michigan and i think her people got coi'm going to vote the republican primary. i assume her campaign is working on that. >> chris, can i say one quick thing? ordinarily, we would be kind of worrying in a democratic primary, oh, hillary clinton is getting pushed too far to the left by bernie sanders on trade. one of the things that is interesting this year, because assuming that hillary clinton getting a democratic nomination, such a topsy turvy year, dumb trade agreements that a lot of what is going on right now, while it's not comfortable for hillary clinton, may not be as damaging to her in a general election to her as it might be in a normal political year. >> well, it's not a normal year.

>> definitely not. >> and i think she can negotiate her deals with bernie and his supporters if she were to win the nomination. we'll see. it's hard to imagine a mitt romney negotiating some peace treatdy. that's what i don't see no matter what happens. have a nice weekend. up next, donald trump is about to take the stage in chicago, where while hundreds of protesters demonstrating in the streets outside. we're going to cover this excitement when we come back. this is pla"hardball," the plac for politics.

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we believe in the power of active management.management, by debating our research to find the best investments. by looking at global and local insights to benefit from different points of view. and by consistently breaking apart risk to focus on long-term value. we actively manage with expertise and conviction. so you can invest with more certainty. mfs. that's the power of active management. welcome back to "hardball." we continue to watch the live pictures from chicago, where donald trump is holding a rally, demonstrators out in the street protesting him. let's bring in the round table. former spokes person. jonathan alan, hrc, hillary

clinton, and what do you make of this whole situation? i have to start with dena. your guy who you were with all these months and difficult campaigning has now gone to trump. what advice do you give to trump if something really ugly happens. that guy looks like he is physically fit and he'll survive. things could get worst. >> you know, chris, first of all, i think that things probably will get worst. i think that donald trump definitely needs to make a statement from the platform, from the stage, to encourage his supporters not to engage with the protesters. the protesters have every right to be there. this is america. th have a right to protest. but so that donald trump can come out from this on the other side, not looking like a racist, to be perfectly honest. he has to make a statement from

the stage to encourage his supporters not to engage. >> jay, the language by trump, i mentioned a couple of segments ago, calling people bums, go get a job, maybe the guy took a day off. the whole idea, referring to people in that manner, sounds nixon or agnew from the 60s or '70s. >> some people have also called it fascist. he always has been one of those candidates, winners versus loser, you're not on my side, you're a bum, stupid, but you're on his side, you're the smartest person ever, genius, amazing, awesome. that's his appeal to some degree to the public is making people feel good for supporting him. making them feel like awesome

winners. >> i don't know how we're going to cover this, but the trump rally has been postponed. that's in -- so these people are protesting inside, trying to disrupt the event itself. for whatever reason, i guess that's the reason, the trump organization has decided to cancel or postpone their rally tonight, rather than try to do battle with the protesters. let's listen. looks like the protesters are protesting, peacefully so far. we can figure it out by just watching it. yeah, well, i don't know how -- jonathan, this is going to be a situation that trump has to deal with. he may not be able to have any more of these super love-in

rallies, because the opposition has gotten word and they're allowed to get in. they disguise themselves, and once they're in, they can protest within. and disrupt. >> donald trump has a right to hold political rallies and to talk to his supporters and not have them canceled by mass protests all throughout the rest of the campaign. at the same time, he has a responsibility as deana said to encourage his supporters to act in a civilized way. >> see what we're watching here. a small scuffle of a woman who pulled a protester sign, ripped it up in front of her. she gave her the finger. it's relatively. well, she is enjoying this. but the kind of thing that could get escalated. let's face it. someone will not have a smile on their face if approximate this keeps up. >> this is a situation where donald trump has courted this. he has courted violence at his rallies, encouraged his supporters to be violent,

rhetoric tended in that direction. natural outgrowth, disguesting that american politics has come to this. he has to denounce the behavior coming from the supporters. >> chris, i should also say the vast majority of the people who are at the trump rallies, the vast majority of the people who do support him, are not people who want to tear protester signs, who want to punch people in the face. so i think that donald trump has a great opportunity to show himself, a true leader, by encouraging his supporters not to engage. most of the people who are at, you know, if he is actually getting 25,000, 30,000 people, you know, at these rallies, most of these people do not want to engage and do not want to, you know, violate people's first amendment rights. so donald trump has a great opportunity here to actually show himself a great leader, the great leader he professes to be.

i think he can do that. we should make sure we not lump all of the people that are at these rallies supporting donald trump with the people who are, you know, doing the very bad things at the rally. >> it's starting. we're watching punches being thrown. someone with a u.s. flag draped, exchanging blows with a guy. some of these people are protesting against trump's fuse on immigration, obviously. there is some people there about deportation, opposing that. i imagine they're from the hispanic community, i can't tell. clearly that's an issue. what do you say to that, jay, it's one thing to say your own people will be calm, but igniting from other communities, they're going to show up, like your supporters are. you're going to snow how up aggressively. >> absolutely. that's been part of his politics. so when you're saying that, you know, that the latinos are murders and rapists, and need to

go home, hall muslims should be banned from entering the united states because they're terrorists, or talking about the kkk and david duke, i mean, these are incredibly divisive, incredibly fire brand comments and people that we're talking about here, and they're bound to drive out violence. bound to drive out protesters and angry people. if i could add, chris, there is a solution to this. i covered george w. bush's reelection campaign in 2004, they closed almost all of their events to the media, not to the media, but outsiders. >> how do you do that? >> it has been done. it's expensive. you have to vet every single person coming through. see if they've given money to the campaign, look at the e-mail address, if they are a supporter, who they voted for in the past. it's expensive, but that's basically what the bush campaign did in '04. >> there they still be as

raucus. >> the thing about vetting people, can you do it when you're a sitting president and you're looking for reelection and you know who your supporters are and you've got that kind of infra tr infrastructu infrastructure. when you're front-runner, having these massive rallies, with 20, 30,000 people, you know, every single day or every other day, that's a lot harder to vet. the bush events in 2004 never got beyond three, four, maybe 600 people. they were pretty small. not tens of thousands of people because of that reason. >> you know, we're watching here a scuffle here between the pro supporters of trump and the opposition. i don't know what it's all about. when you look at the pictures we're looking at. this is a street fight basically with very strong emotions on both sides. these people are within spitting distance. i've seen people give each other the finger. they want to antagonize each other. this isn't a group of people that wants to be friendly. they're both very angry here.

you're seeing the people forming an arm locking themselves so they can't be thrown out. there is some tactics being used here. this is pretty ugly. it looks like this is going to be the norm. jonathan, this looks like it will be the norm from now on if he keeps holding these events. >> let's hope not. one of the fundamental rights is the right to peacefully assemble. donald trump has been assembling, but his rallies have not been peaceful. again, we're seeing this natural outgrowth i think which is scary. it's frightful for american politics, and it's not politics. what we're looking at is something you might see in a third world country. america is better than this. >> yeah, and i -- let me go back to deana. we're looking at this african-american guy being hauled away here. he is throwing up a pamphlet. but this is a very emotional thing. i think what's going on here is the protesters believe the

people there for trump are against them and their interest, whether hispanic or some other group. they think that everyone there is a trump person, therefore, the enemy. it looks like, look at the faces of people, the way they're yelling at each other. >> chris, i think that this really shows that there are americans on both sides of this issue who are very angry, and you know, it's hearbreaking, it is hearbreaking to see these images of people, you know, being pulled away, all of this, all of this is, you know, as -- we don't want to see this at an american rally for one of the -- for the front-runner for the gop nomination. i think that what we have to do is tempers have to be calmed, people have to be -- people's voices have to be heard, but i think at these rallies right now, donald trump has a great opportunity to show himself, and i do believe that he is a leader, i think most of the people at these rallies are not racist, they're not people who

want to see this type of have a lens, and donald trump has a great opportunity. there have been -- he has had -- you know, he has said things, done things, the teflon don, this will be his undoing if he can't get it under control. he has been able to survive the criticism from the media, everything he said about women, muslims, everything. he has been able to survive it. he has risen in the polls. but this will be his undoing if he is not able to control it. but i believe that he is a leader, and that he can control it and because most of the people who are at these rallies are not, i mean, these are people excited about america, many of these people have never voted. they've never been engaged in the political process. that in and of itself is very exciting. i think that donald trump and his team can, you know, right this ship and make everyone feel welcomed at these rallies. that's what should happen. he is, you know, he is the deal maker. can do it.

i have every confidence he can. >> i'm wondering, put this in historic terms. this is going downhill. once people watch this on tv, don't mind being in a rough situation, they'll start showing up with greater incidents. some people like this action. the scared people will not show up. the people ready for trouble will start showing up. this could get much worse than this. >> absolutely, chris. it could easily. look, it's a whole beginning of when you have peaceful protests, the first sort of true believers come out, but after that, the second wave of the anarchy, start throwing bombs, those people wt to incite chaos and that's when it gets dangerous. it doesn't help when you have the candidate them self when the protesters are egging the crowd on, saying to the press, egging like violence against the press, just this week, the white house correspondent association sent a letter saying how worried and

disturbed they were at language encouraging violence against the media. and so what he needs and he keeps saying he is a unifier, he needs to be able to talk and calm and bring these people into the fold and not have total out right chaos in his events like this. >> yeah. jonathan, look at the crowd here with me. i don't want to make any generalizations. it's so -- doesn't it doesn't s you who you see here. minorities are upset. it's not just the rapists, but the word bum. look at this. a classic standoff. the guy with the flag, another guy probably doesn't like what the guy is saying. here we go again. looks like another arrest perhaps. look at this. judge for yourself. i wonder if they're going to let this go on. i mean, people are not leaving. they're not as we say in the

police word, disbursing, they're saying. it's like both sides seem to be interested in watching what happens next or getting more engaged and more into a scuffle here. deana, you're thinking a lot about this, i know, and i -- we're watching it. you don't need reporting on this. you can see everything yourself from the tv screen. >> it's hearbreaking. it really is. i think one thing that is great and exciting about -- >> look at this. look at that. a guy started yelling at a guy in his face and he took a slug at him. not everybody is going to engage in oxford style debating here, especially when you're spitting in somebody's face. you're encouraging trouble. you can see it. this is close engagement here. i don't know how the police figured out how to stop it. unless they empty the room. >> it doesn't seem like there are a whole lot of chicago police on scene there. we see one on the screen.

a lot of them look like private security before that. i'm not going to suggest the chicago police are always the best solution to violence. history does not necessarily suggest that. somebody has to get control of that room. >> now they're starting to escort people, encouraging them to file out of the -- out of the room. not everybody is going to want to leave. unfortunately, the people who don't like violence will leave. the ones that don't mind it will continue to be there. >> you see this, you mean like in america, it's so hearbreaking where you have, you know, the basis of both parties, whether it's sort of the 15 to 20% base of both parties, where they just don't listen to the other side. they don't talk to the other side. they listen to, you know, and then they get their news from one just, you know, it's so narrow and cone driven, and they don't want to -- they don't want to hear the other perspectives. this is what we're seeing here, two extremes come together here, and there is no talking it over. there is no communication here.

they're not trying to, you know, understand each other here. they're trying to really engage. that's what is terrifying about donald trump's candidacy right now. that's what he brings out. he brings out these two sides of just total passion, but not what any side willing to compromise, willing to listen, willing to, and then you wonder, how is he ever going to legislate. how is he going to bring countries together. let alone the american populous. >> he is watching this right now, deana. what do you think he is doing? he is watching, whether he will get a calm situation to evolve here in the next half hour, where he could go back in the room, where things are calm and have the rally or not. i'm sure he is thinking of that. he doesn't want to send them all home. >> i have to disagree with jay just a little bit. i think that he is probably watching this, and i do believe that he is recognizes that, again, this could be his undoing. he does want to win. he recognizes that he will have

to get this under control. i believe that even the donald trump that we saw last night in the debate, the more of a statesman, someone willing to, you know, tone down the, you know, unusual comments, that donald trump is, i think that he will be able to recognize that the only way to get this under control is to address it based on, you know, face it, explain it, exactly what it is, and talk to his supporters. the people who listen to him, who really will pretty much do whatever he says. if he is the leader that i know that he can be, that he is able to stand in front of his people and tell them to calm down. and that, he can do that. >> well, god, this is strange, jonathan. i've never covered something like this. it looks like the people watching the protesters are enjoying it. look at these guys here taunting them, waiving their arms in the air. i think the only thing trump can do right now is to make sure that the people who come to his

rallies do not interact with the protesters. let them protest, let them disrupt, have the police escort them out of the room and have your rally, as long as they're h the people, taunting them, there's no way the police can separate out the protesters there. i don't know how they can do that i think job. >> the problem is, donald trump has been inciting this for so long. gearing up his crowd to do this. i appreciate what dena is saying. what she's saying about his opportunity here to be leader is important. i think sometimes when you speak of somebody and appeal to their better angels they will try to live up to it. i can hope mr. trump is listening tonight.

>> speaking of better angels here we are in the land of lincoln. >> some of the protesters chanting for bernie sanders. some with anti-trump things. others saying we did it. we did it as if they got trump to cancel. they were coordinating and continued to disrupt the rally and got it cancelled. you have a lot of signs. i'm looking at some of them holding up peace signs with

rainbow banner. some said peace is possible. they are here protest that. >> why would trump meet in chicago? it's a liberal city with vast diversity. then not vet the people coming in. looks like, was there any vetting as you came in? you probably went in with the press. any attempt to vet the protesters from the supporters? >> it didn't look that way. when you have thousands of people coming to his events, which is the norm, that's when you see who is bringing in a sign that says pro-trump and a sign that says something against trump. i think that's what we saw today. a lot of these people are dressed in plain clothes. they are holding signs or just yelling in protest in general. there was no real way, i don't think, to vet these people. there are a few that have signs that indicate they were here

protest but you would have to have a pretty -- i think you would have to ask point-blank do do you plan to protest? we did see that in vermont. they didn't ask that, i don't think today. they asked that in vermont. >> thank you. let me get back to our round table for one last round here. seems to me, it will be a headline in the papers that say trump rally disrupted and ended by protesters. will that be seen as a victory for the protesters or trump who will say with righteous indignation, they won't let us speak? >> both sides will claim victory on this. i don't think this will be an opportunity for both sides to have real clear conversation moving forward. donald trump, again, has great opportunity to show himself, the

unifier, the leader. even being able to sit down and schedule a meeting with the communities that are protesting against him. the bottom line if he's general rating 25,000, 35,000 people it will be impossible to vet people. he will continue to have these protesters at his rallies. this could be his undoing if he doesn't get in front of it. >> he must have known there would be, it's hard to call them interlopers when they come in vast numbers and came in with a purpose of disrupting rally they don't like the looks of. we just lost, jim. i'm watching this thing. we'll continue to broadcast

until 8:30 eastern to capture what we think will be the end of this event. this will be explosive in terms of the history of this campaign. trump has been able to meet with like minded supporters all around the country with vast, vast armies of people coming to cheer him. he's used that as a momentum builder. these crowds, themselves, he's used as an argument he's going to lead the country effectively because he can draw large crowds at arenas like this and many parts of the country. if he's ignited a situation where minority, people progressives, generally, i think mainly minority people who feel he's personally attacked them and their americanism, hispanic people, african-american who is feel he's dumped on them politically, used them basically to get himself votes in the majority community that he is not going to get away with that anymore. they will show up at every one of these rallies i think especially in big cities.

i think, jonathan, i think this is a situation, i don't know which way it will explode. the fact you won't be able to have trump rallies in big cities anymore. >> i think he will continue to want to have rallies and try to have rallies to rectify the situation. it's an important right to be able to peacefully assemble. emphasis on both words, peacefully and assemble. he's got to figure something out. in terms of the headlines tomorrow if there's one person that knows how to change a headline from protesters disrupt rally to something a little more calm and civil, it's donald trump. right now if you're any other candidate you would use this as evidence as exhibit a in your case that donald trump is leading this country into a dangerous place. he's going to have to combat that from the other candidates and from a lot of americans who are disturbed by what they see tonight in chicago. >> katie has been covering trump

more than anybody. why do you think this happened the way it did? this huge assembly in an antagonistic setting where so many people were there to disrupt and did so they closed down the event. what will trump do now? >> we saw a preview of this happening in st. louis and donald trump was asked about cancelling that. he did not. it was 31 arrests in st. louis. this happened in chicago. we have been hearing rumors and rumblings of mass protest planned for the chicago rally. this did not come as a surprise. i'm not there at the moment, but our nbc colleague who is are there, my other colleague who is have been following this campaign have said they were preparing for a really violent evening, a potentially very violent evening. this is exactly what we saw. what does the trump campaign do now? i think that remains to be seen. we have asked on a number of occasions if they will tone down

the rhetoric. i asked him this last night. i said what are you going to do about this violence that keeps disrupting at your campaign. he said i need to be very vigilant about it. i can't control 30, 35,000 people who show up to his rallies. they are not that large but very large. there's thousands of people there. we saw him today come out in st. louis and the rhetoric was anything but toned down. when protests started and these were people trying to disrupt the rally, let's be very clear. that was the intention. instead of trying to calm the situation, donald trump reverted back to his usual rhetoric of get them out. get them out. i wish i could tell you what i was thinking but i can't. it's this language that fueled the frenzy and whips up this crowd and enables them to act out and lash out and to vent

their anger at protesters who are venturing into these arenas. that's what we're seeing in chicago tonight. this was something that had been planned. this was something that got out of control. they clearly couldn't stop people from coming into this venue. they couldn't pre-screen them. there's concerns over how that would go. the campaign, i think wisely, deciding to call off this event. is this going to be a turning point for them? will they come out and say we need to review how we have been doing things? we need to review my rhetoric from donald trump himself? i'm not entirely sure. nothing we have seen in this campaign has indicated they really dialed things back or decided they need to change course or been honest about that. they have not done that in the past. my sense is they're going to

blame this on the folks going in with the intention of disrupting this crowd. they were coming into a private event. they were waiting along with the other trump supporters who were waiting peacefully. they were coming in to make a scene. they're going to blame it on them. this is falling on the same day his campaign manager is facing battery charges from a reporter who said he grabbed her and bruised her. that's not been confirmed. the allegations are only allegations at this point. there's been no video to corroborate her story conclusively. this is the environment. this is the environment that they've created around this campaign. it's one where there are no apologies. it's one where we are right.